sell AKM
#esports-discussion
rare sonnet
jagged crater
hobo kruber
glass orbit
What are the teams that'll play in the season playoffs and when are the playoffs?
Is there a schedule? I can't find one
deft valley
!schedule
somber yewBOT
Developed with LOVE by MoonFire
deft valley
You can find a full one on the league site
but it doesn't have playoffs yet lmao
Aside from the teams listed on bot's schedule, the playoffs also have NY and LA Valiant. They get a bye to the second week
supple prism
or use liquipedia
gaunt acorn
MAP POOL FOR PLAYOFFS:
Dorado
Eichenwalde
Oasis
Junkertown
Kings Row
Lijang
Volskya
Hanamura
Nepal
rare sonnet
Damn
I really like all the payload picks
Eichenwalde/KingsRow/Junkertown is a fat PogChamp
So much potential strategy
@gaunt acorn there are 3 escort maps in your message?
Gibraltar isnβt getting played
vivid solar
nice one dray
torpid charm
nice one dray
torpid charm
you ever just look at a picture and your heart hurts? because that's me looking at that pic
red anvil
@gaunt acorn Is there a compete overview of all map winrates on playoff teams somewhere?
gaunt acorn
@red anvil not as far as i know
i'm sure it's been recorded somewhere
or at least internally it 100% has, go ask captainplanet maybe 
red anvil
wait you linked it already
red anvil
dident see thats an album
gaunt acorn
yup
deft valley
what kind of math is "2-2-1 is 40%"
balmy wolf
@deft valley ratio
sullen berry
@deft valley draws are neither wins nor losses
it's amazine how 2 out of 5 matches equals 40% but that's how it works
deft valley
normal sports count them as .5
that's not how it works
an equal number of wins and losses is a 50%
deft valley
whether you have draws or not
sullen berry
I would think that would be reasonable too
but trust blizz to decide things like this and retcon the math later Β―_(γ)_/Β―
deft valley
lmao
silk linden
A draw isn't a win
What are you on about
A 2-2-1 is a 40%
Draws don't count as half wins
Otherwise a team with 2 draws would claim a map record equal to a team with 1 win and one loss
And that's not how map record works
You compare wins
sullen berry
half is obtainable under normal conditions in the game
so giving it value would only encourage draws if a team is at an advantage/disadvantage
and the game isn't designed to warrant draws
silk linden
Yeah, the value is it's not a loss
Because losses count negatively towards your map record
sullen berry
and vice versa, it shouldn't BE any value towards a map differential sooo
silk linden
I'm talking Overwatch League here
sullen berry
ππ»
silk linden
Were map differential is a deciding factor
So, a 2-2-1 is a 40% map win
Because 3 of those times you didn't win
deft valley
a 2-2-1 is a 50% percentage
a 40% is 2-3
2-2-1 is better than 2-3
if your problem is "calling it half a win", then drop it from the calculation altogether
that's the other actually reasonable option
but it's still 50%
you say "the value is it's not a loss" yet you count it as a loss in percentage
sullen berry
mmm
silk linden
A draw is not a win
sullen berry
I see what you mean
silk linden
No
sullen berry
I think DoA's statement was pretty good at pointing this out
sullen berry
"Uprising haven't loss a single map" when looking at the 10-0 streak on Volskaya Industries
silk linden
If you don't get it it's on you, I can't explain any better
deft valley
other matches being equal, a team with a draw is worse than a team with a win and better than one with a loss
the percentage should reflect that
sullen berry
silk linden
2-3 is better than 2-2-1 but they both have the same win percentage
deft valley
jesus christ
silk linden
Same
sullen berry
:bigThink:
deft valley
that's how records are calculated in any proper sports
sullen berry
"they have not suffered a defeat"
sullen berry
and I can't make comparisons to ordinary sports scoring systems here
deft valley
You either drop them altogether (but that ends up as 10-0-1 being 100%)
or you count as half
gaunt acorn
boston really has never lost on volskaya
sullen berry
so that statement holds true
gaunt acorn
oh i thought you were saying the statement was wrong
sullen berry
I did notice we're agreeing in a roundabout way this is strange
silk linden
You're pulling this other sports thing out of your ass. If a football team wins one, draws one and loses one, you don't say they have a 66% win rate. You might say they have 4 points, since draws award 1 point and wins award 3
gaunt acorn
because of the 1
sullen berry
blizzard scoring isn't mainstream
deft valley
that's how it's scored in NFL
sullen berry
but they're trying to make it so 10 wins, 0 losses AND ONE DRAW = 91%
deft valley
and football has a score system so you don't get those
sullen berry
@deft valley so my problem, which I agree with you here
silk linden
@sullen berry yes, 10 wins no losses and one draw is a 91% win rate
upper niche
I don't care how they do it so long as the way they do it isn't unique to the US and the rest of the world does it a sane way π
sullen berry
is that Blizzard trying too hard to make scoring their own thing
silk linden
Because you only won 10/11 times
sullen berry
their only convention is US team sports
deft valley
like that shouldn't be a controversial statement
sullen berry
and even that isn't what they have up to standard
silk linden
No, only of you won the same number of matches as you didn't win
upper niche
Can we just agree that a Draw is not a Win?
deft valley
no one's claiming it is
silk linden
Since draws have been played, and you didn't win those
upper niche
right, so how the hell is winnint 10 out of 11 games not 91%?
silk linden
It is
deft valley
sticking to the pure definition of "win" is like saying "snipers are in defense, don't use them on attack"
it's a system to rank teams
sullen berry
slow down, cowboys
deft valley
a team that draws should be higher than a team that loses
upper niche
That I agree with. A draw is better than a loss.
silk linden
Yes, but not as high as a team that wins
upper niche
But it still doesn't to towards win percentage.
deft valley
which is the reasonable solution
silk linden
No, counting as half would equate two draws with one win and one loss
upper niche
Hang on. Now you're trying to argue as to how many draws a win or loss is equal to. And that's different again.
deft valley
it is
silk linden
Which is wrong
deft valley
if you count draws as losses
the league in general has an under-50% winrate
which makes no fucking sense
upper niche
Who is claiming they count them as losses?
They're not losses. They're just not wins.
silk linden
Are you just not used to sports with draws?
deft valley
Overall winrate being not 50% is nonsensical
upper niche
The league is scored on number of wins, then map differential, then head-to-head. What's the problem?
Win rate has nothing to do with placings. It's just a statistic.
silk linden
It isn't nonsensical
upper niche
It doesn't factor in to placings in any way whatsoever.
silk linden
You sum win rate, draw rate and loss rate and you get 100%
upper niche
WTF? No it's not. Do you not understand the definition of "win rate"?
silk linden
Party is brain farting hard
deft valley
"Draw rate" is not a thing
upper niche
Unless you can have a match where multiple teams win, win rate will always be below 50%
silk linden
It is
deft valley
oh shut the fuck up lmao
upper niche
It's a thing that noone ever uses, refers to or cares about. But it's still a thing.
sullen berry
@deft valley I mean, I don't fully agree with your argument, but you might be onto something
my question is
Valiant has 6-3-1, Win-Loss-Draw
silk linden
Why are people so bad at math
deft valley
Or you can actually use a sensible measure
sullen berry
but the Gladiators have it 6-4
deft valley
instead of also needing "draw rate"
upper niche
We dont need anything.
deft valley
This isn't a math question
sullen berry
@silk linden not a math problem, a logic/weighting issue
deft valley
βββββ
upper niche
It's a jazzy infographic to put on a screen and generate content.
upbeat nexus
silk linden
@sullen berry yes, so they have the same win rate. Luckily, the league doesn't actually care about win rate but it does account for map differential
sullen berry
@silk linden but you can see that's the only way I can see @deft valley's argument without resorting to sports scoring mechanics I don't know about
upper niche
In the context of who wins the season, it means nothing, just like JJonak kaving a K/D of 50b:1.
silk linden
So the team with draws is actually placed higher
sullen berry
@silk linden and this comes to a different problem. End of story
if it's based on map differential
deft valley
That should be shown
sullen berry
then a draw counts: as. a. loss.
deft valley
in the winrate
upper niche
@silk linden That's kinda handled by virtue of map count being used.
silk linden
Why should it be shown? It's a different statistic
sullen berry
@deft valley yeah it doesn't do that on purpose in respect to oversimplifying the scoreboards
silk linden
You're just complaining one stat doesn't tell the whole story, which,no shit
upper niche
@sullen berry It doesn't count as a loss. It simply doesn't count as a win.
sullen berry
@silk linden but you know why it's so gosh darn making people mental about it
deft valley
if it doesn't rank teams properly
sullen berry
@upper niche 
silk linden
No, it doesn't
sullen berry
it does rank teams
silk linden
But that's besides the point
upper niche
That's the important thing. It generates a ranking. Are there other systems they could use? Yes.
deft valley
its entire purpose is to give a relative representation of perfromance
and it doesn't
upper niche
Will they all generate slightly different outcomes? No.
sullen berry
keep in mind guys, this isn't the first time I've been concerned about Blizzard's data
upper niche
Does it really matter? No.
deft valley
becuase it shows teams with different performance at the same rate
silk linden
It's like ranking dps players based on hero damage. It doesn't tell the whole story, but it is a stat that exists
deft valley
it's like ranking dps players based on time they spend looking at the dva poster
sullen berry
@deft valley so that's why I have trouble with overwatchleague.com/stats showing only an except of stage 4, not the overall performance
silk linden
The data they show isn't wrong. It's just of limited usefulness
upper niche
Ultimately it generates a play-off bracket. Personally I think the way they do their playoffs is pants-on-head retarded, but that's just me.
upbeat nexus
π
sullen berry
@upper niche what's that supposed to mean
deft valley
oh and yes a win and a loss is the same thing record-wise as two draws
that's literally the case in OWL
upper niche
It means there are other finals systems they could use that I'd think are less shit.
sullen berry
nobody has said that?
silk linden
Fair enough to that
upper niche
Nobody has said what?
sullen berry
the reason I'm seeing anybody confused is because there is a map differential which decides which team edges out if they have the exact same win/loss ratio
we take two hypothetical teams: Busan Monkeys and the Sydney Drop Bears
both with 7-4-0 win/loss/draw
deft valley
Veex - Today at 2:00 PM
Draws don't count as half wins Otherwise a team with 2 draws would claim a map record equal to a team with 1 win and one loss(edited) And that's not how map record works
silk linden
If we were making a "success rate" for a team on a map, then I'd agree with counting draws as half
sullen berry
now who is the better team
deft valley
except it literally is how the record works in OWL
silk linden
Yes, I'm conceding that now
deft valley
both those teams have a differential of 0
upper niche
@sullen berry The one who gets further through a seeded elimination bracket.
sullen berry
@upper niche what
upper niche
Ladders don't determine the best team, they seed teams.
deft valley
if yout sticking point is the name then that should be changed
upper niche
Ladders are purely a mechanism for producing a seeded play-off system.
deft valley
nothing about how OWL works is a ladder
it's a regular season and the seeding is based on final record
upper niche
Sometimes they provide a performance bonus in some leagues, but that doesn't give an indication of a better or worse team, just an approximation.
Hell, look at the AFL finals from what was it, 2016? Western Bulldogs finished was it 8th? And won the grand final.
deft valley
do you want the entire league to be in the playoffs or something?
upper niche
No.
As I said: Ladders provide a mechanism for seeding finals systems.
What OWL are using now is known as the McIntyre Final Six system - it was used by the AFL in 1992 and 1993 only and dropped due to problems.
AFL have completely moved away from a McIntyre system because it's confusing and doesn't allow marketable planning.
upper niche
sorry, you're right -it's different again.
deft valley
OWL's is closer to the NFL structure
upper niche
but the concept of taking the highest/lowest seed from a ranking, rather than the winner of a match, is common to mcintyre systems and what OWL are using.
upper niche
no it's not.
deft valley
if you don't win your series you're done
upper niche
OWL takes the lowest seeded semi-final winning team and places them against 1.
A single-elimination bracket takes the winner, regardless of seed.
deft valley
that does not make it not single elimination
that's just reseeding after round 1 instead of strict bracket
upper niche
jesus christ it's like I'm arguing with a tree. Okay, fine, you believe what you want, I've run these things for nearly 20 years now, so... you believe whatever you want.
deft valley
you've run these things for 20 years and still don't know what single elimination is? damn
deft valley
actually the structure is literally the NFL's system
6 teams, top 2 get byes, the others play each other
sullen berry
I least got a better idea how OW League's NFL-inspired scoring was meant to work
upper niche
that certainly explains why it's so ridiculous.
deft valley
then the 1 seed gets the lower wild card
upper niche
Yeah, and in the 3v6 match if 6 wins it changes who 1 plays. It's stupid.
sullen berry
remember, this could all turn to shit and they need to re-evaluate this over come season 2
upper niche
@sullen berry I wouldn't be surprised if they go to a Final 8 system in Season 2 if the rumours of 6 new teams are true.
deft valley
quarter finals affecting your opponent adds a rooting interest for the top 2 seeded teams
sullen berry
because until that point in time, this isn't a very spicy season of playoff upsets as much as we had some really exciting counterplays throughout
deft valley
it's not like it's that massive of a difference
upper niche
@sullen berry With a league of 18 teams total, putting 8 teams rather than 6 through to the finals would certainly be more commercially friendly.
upper niche
Like I imagine many Aussies I'm still in the "I don't support anyone in particular" basket.
sullen berry
if they hadn't anticipated any of the complications that have spawned in their data
Here in New Zealand, we couldn't really give a damn about US Sports
deft valley
8/18 sounds about right
sullen berry
9/18 is the devil 
deft valley
10/18 is the NBA
sullen berry
I have no clue as to whether we will get better bottom tier performances
deft valley
well more like 16/30 but equally meaningless
upper niche
Do NBA still do the stupid conference thing?
deft valley
why wouldn't they
sullen berry
because from season one we had seoul & dallas drop into the bottom to make it interesting
upper niche
The fact that we've had 8 different teams in stage play-offs is amazing.
And had they been top 4 in all stages, that number would be 9.
only SFS, FLM and SHD would not have made one.
sullen berry
^^
deft valley
but it's funnier when Seoul didn't make any
upbeat nexus
Smh
deft valley
best team tho
sullen berry
like my love/hate relationship with HTC
three years of decent phones
after tolerating the shitphone that was htc one m9
upper niche
I gotta buy a new phone this week, microphone in my Z5C has carked it.
sullen berry
loosely related to esports
upper niche
haha.
sullen berry
great banter for #general-discussion anytime though
balmy wolf
.
sullen berry
not quite
they won stage 4 playoff title
the post season is when they do the big money playoff against the top 6 teams
somber yewBOT
Developed with LOVE by MoonFire
sullen berry
as you can see
echo zinc
ah
echo zinc
thanks
sullen berry
then they continue where they left off the next day fyi
sullen berry
that's how it was explained Β―_(γ)_/Β―
they have a whole day to plan the follow up
deft valley
it's not the planning that i'm concerned with, it's playing two times in a row, potentially two full-5 games
it's fairer than it used to be considering both teams have to do it, but it's still weird
rare sonnet
tbh I kinda want NYXL to win
just cause they have worked quite hard all season and completely changed how people see zenyatta
but i also hope they don't win next year
hybrid helm
I want either NYXL or LAG to win
And to be fair NYXL deserve it
For the majority of the season the meta was defined by Tracer Zenyatta and Mercy which they have all #1 of
tawny sigil
the map lottery show confirmed its gonna be the latest patch right?
pearl stratus
Honestly most of the teams going deserve it in some way or another. Minus NYXL it was a very equal league across the board.
Much more equal than, for instance, Stage 1 was indicating.
opaque cargo
The finals are probably going to be a matter of who has the better Hanzo.
limber pine
Dorado, King's Row, and Junkertown already had a lot of double sniper already
should be fun
"fun"
silk linden
Twitter
pearl stratus
I mean two of the best Hanzos are on NYXL.
Libero and Jonak.
Libero is probably the best in the league by a good chunk though.
limber pine
i don't even know who plays Hanzo on LAG
silk linden
hydration can play any hero, past present or future
upper niche
I don't expecct Hanzo to make it to Season 2 in his current state
limber pine
I don't think anybody would expect it to
upper niche
I can just see it now, in an important OWL game when a Hanzo walks through the right door of Kings Row offense and just decides to randomly lob an arrow over the crates, and by sheer fluke headshots an enemy Zenyatta. I'm sure it'll be popular.
We'll stop seeing Reins playing in a way where they keep putting up and taking down their shield as they jump backwards because Hanzo arrows keep taking out targets all the way up the back of the map.
warped axle
I thought about making match predictions but then I remembered that the OWL season was over
Maybe I'll do it for Contenders S2
sand pond
do we know yet if new hanzo will be on the playoffs patch?
rare sonnet
after the whole of season 1, seeing NYXL lose would just be kinda crappy because it means you don't actually have to try all season, just enough to make playoffs then pop off.
sand pond
wouldn't that mean the opposite?
if NYXL loses people would blame their 2-3 weeks of slacking off
vs. if they won people would say that the optimal strat is to make playoffs, chill, then pop off
limber pine
sand pond
yikes
that's gonna be interesting to see
thanks @limber pine
it's taken weeks for teams to adjust to a new patch meta. will be kind of scary but (maybe also exciting?) to see how well teams perform jumping into high stakes matches from the get-go
limpid estuary
sand pond
correct
also current patch is only 1.24 and they say it will be patch 1.25, so my understanding is that the playoffs will also contain the Doomfist and Orisa buffs
so the next live patch, minus Sym
sand pond
cept Hydration probably lol
pearl stratus
New Shanghai when?
You could actually make a competitive all-chinese roster - bring up the two LGD contenders (old MY tanks), Sky/Shy/Only on Support, Diva Eileen + Leave for dps
verbal roost
Is the owner of shd going to sell the team?
sullen berry
nah it's like that for a lot of videos on youtube
sometimes viewership pops off better but they had to have flubbed that during the reupload
thorn nymph
Who do you guys have to win the world cup this summer I've got the USA πΊπΈπ
@everyone
upper niche
I reckon it'll just go to a random team that learns Hanzo really well really quickly.
or learns strats against it when others try to rely on it.
hidden osprey
@tawny sigil according to reddit they removed the roundup between FLA and SHD
timber shard
tawny sigil
They got map 5 a lot
sullen berry
in spite of supporting shanghai early for the inevitable 0-40, with no ability to snowball
they definitely had it coming to them coming to map 5 and displaying an underwhelming performance
and you can never accumulate it to stage fright or individual consistency
rare sonnet
SHD actually have one of the more valuable teams too
selling it is probably the move
after they start winning they won't have sympathy supporters
pearl stratus
I mean the Koreans are crazy popular in China, but I think with Leave coming back to OW you have a potential to do things properly.
And remake MY.
pearl stratus
On a 1:1 level most of the roster on SHD is actually not bad, which is my one gripe about them. They have some really solid players who just don't mix.
Geguri and Fearless are often de-synced, but neither of them are actually bad.
Ado is probably one of, if not the, best Genji in the league. His plays and clutch are just bananas.
Diya when he's having fun is a super highly rated Widow.
He won player of the match when they lost versus Houston, thats how good his Widow can be.
verbal roost
Will they win a game next stage?
pearl stratus
Depends on the roster swaps.
But on a player to player level they're not the worst in the league.
That's Florida.
verbal roost
They lost to Florida though T_T
pearl stratus
Losing to a team doesn't mean you don't have better players.
Hence why I phrased it as player to player.
verbal roost
Better players doesn't mean anything if they lose
pearl stratus
Florida has the worst supports in the league, one of the worst flex dps in the league, and minimal excuses on how they never improved.
verbal roost
They've won actual games though π¦
pearl stratus
3 games.
Because if you take out SHD they wouldnt' have beaten anyone else.
So minus Shanghai they won a total of 3 games.
3-37 doesn't sound much better.
You have to look at it pragmatically. Their org is mismanaged and not exactly super flush with cash to have such a bad team.
Shanghai, despite having a bad record, could give literally no shits about money.
So they can maintain a losing team without a need for sponsors or investors.
Shanghai also maintains some of the highest viewership numbers for their games because of the 'what if' of a first win.
So despite doing bad, they're ironically doing good.
I personally would still gut the team, and try to bring back most of MY. And do it sooner rather than later so you can get practicing over the break.
verbal roost
Does MY want to join shd?
pearl stratus
I don't think they'd care as long as they get to play on a real level.
Sky is from MY, granted he's just not that great.
But the two MY tanks are on the SHD Contenders team.
So you can move those two up, hopefully get Leave (who was always a monster, and will be 18 now).
You keep Diya.
You keep Altering.
Try to get Eileen, imo.
Shanghai is honestly in probably one of the best scouting positions in the world because NetEase (their owner group) is Blizzards counterpart in China and basically organizes/hosts everything.
pearl stratus
I mean I'm at work being paid to do this, so that's arguable.
balmy wolf
oh ns
verbal roost
Would rather have a draft than have each team hoarding players from Contenders
Hope shd wins one day
pearl stratus
I don't think a draft system would ever realistically work in an e-sport. There's just so many players available, and with minimal scouting options (since you're looking at a theoretical global issue) Contenders just becomes college ball.
verbal roost
Just fit the draft between contenders and owl
Flesh out scouting
Do contenders get salaries?
Drafts work in so many other systems. What makes esports so special?
pearl stratus
For me its the numbers behind it. You'd be doing a draft system for one year contracts involving around two dozen countries, multiple languages, and something where personality and try outs really matter a whole lot more.
There's no set system for running a boot camp-esque thing for scouts - so you end up going in blind a lot. Look at someone like AKM who was brought in to play without scrimming with the team etc, etc.
I think if the contracts were longer, and the language barriers weren't such an issue it would open a lot of it up.
But for instance if you draft a Korean first, you're almost 'locking' yourself into picking up more Koreans if you're stuck to just a draft system.
And then you have to factor in how you want to do the trading and selling of draft picks etc. How does that impact the organizations that are too poor to manage it or the ones that have way more money (LAG/shanghai) than everyone else.
I think its something that could be brought in eventually, but it doesn't make sense in infancy.
Ding Lei himself is worth a little bit over $15 billion himself. He could buy and sell every draft in the league if you let him.
verbal roost
Good points. Maybe itβs too early.
pearl stratus
Yeah they have some really basic stuff they need to finish first.
The draft didnt' begin, according to a quick wikipedia, in the NFL till 16 years in.
I'd rather see them fix the map selection thing more.
Because the current map system is really bad.
Also just as a side tangent I think there's still a TON of talent out there that you may not find even in a draft. Look at someone like Danteh who was picked up to "placehold" for Sinatraa. He grew into something pretty incredible.
I think the failures currently in the league aren't because of a draft, but because teams made really poor choices on who they wanted to invest in.
Florida could have picked up supports over the signing break, and they didn't. That was a huge mistake.
Shanghai tried to bring in a bunch of Koreans and severely underestimated the language barrier issue, also a mistake.
limber pine
somebody said that if there's a draft then there has to be a union
pearl stratus
I mean there should be a union anyway, but that won't exist for another year at least.
All the year + option contracts would fuck it all up for Season 2.
silk linden
hard to make a draft if you aim for a global league. You'd have to convince players to move to different continents
"Linkzr, you have been drafted by the Shanghai Dragons. Pack your stuff, the plane for China leaves tomorrow"
verbal roost
They are located in California for matches
At least the regular stage matches I think
verbal roost
Players would move for $100,000 or less a season anyways
Since Blizzard created OWL, most likely physical locations would be somewhere near their headquarters. Maybe other leagues could be created abroad though.
silk linden
...
I said
they aim to make the OWL a global league
meaning that the teams will eventually move to their respective cities and have home arenas
verbal roost
Unlikely
verbal roost
Shanghai and Los Angeles are maybe 14 hours apart
verbal roost
That makes more sense
silk linden
perhaps they'd just play every stage in a different location
limber pine
seems likely
4 stages (one on east coast/Texas, one in LA, one in SK, one in EU)
to minimize travel expenses
It's easier to move 18 teams every 5 weeks than 18 teams once/twice a week (based on the current schedule anyway)
sand pond
is anything of interest going to be happening during the downtime between playoffs and season 2?
(besides world cup)
storm hare
Does anyone know of any leagues or tournaments that are starting soon. Preferably for around 3.3- 3.5K teams
tawny sigil
"8 Florida man seen applying at mcdonald after failing to start a career in eSports"
Why is that not on Florida Man twitter
sand pond
All Star rosters announced https://overwatchleague.com/en-us/news/21901474/meet-the-all-star-starting-rosters
sand pond
that's what I thought. but on the upside, the NYXL squad isn't super balanced
3 dps
no flex tank
though it will be hard for Ryu and Custa to complete with Ark/Jjonak
tawny sigil
ryujehkong
sand pond
my biggest concern is just that the NYXL squad will have inherently more synergy and, from the get-go, will all speak the same language
tawny sigil
i dont know... this all star game is gonna be boring as fuck
watch a bunch of immigrant get stomped by a korean team
sand pond
lol
tawny sigil
geguri's only chance to play in a good team then this happen
how are they gonna coach this,
just leave them to their own?
verbal roost
All star coaches too?
tawny sigil
was there votes for that
ember jewel
Dudes, chill
Geguri will have the best main tank in the world by her side
And the Australian shotcaller calling the strats
This'll be fun
Specially on a double sniper patch, with Fleta + Seagull
sullen berry
Tbh I thought this was all stars battle Royale looking at the pacific division
They're all out to make each other look better or just not giving up in their own teams via Ryujehong Geguri and fleta
I can see no ego here since half the team has never won against NYXL all season
Triple dps 
Oh this will definitely be an entirely different beast
rare sonnet
I don't think a draft is right for OWL
who wants to get forced onto a team
and why should teams that have good scouting procedures get punished
like NYXL with Jjonak
upper niche
Imagine living in the US all your life and then London or Melbourne or Berlin decide "yep, you're gonna come play for us".
Certainly once they get the league running the way they want with actual home games.
deft valley
how is that different from having to move to LA which everyone did though
rare sonnet
because in LA you have all these friends and infrastructure i guess
imagine being that one korean guy on a berlin team and you can't speak english/german yet because you just turned 18
deft valley
there will be "infrastructure" in any city that gets a team
as for friends, again, is that not the case for teams now? You're in a new city with the team housing, some teams had preexisting connections but hardly all
upper niche
@rare sonnet I expect teams will have enough sense to now draft a player who can't communicate with the existing roster.
red anvil
Drafts are fairly useless in OW, there will always been upsets by lower standing teams
Unless your shanghai but there a special case that NYXL players wouldent even solve
deft valley
what about having upsets makes draft useless?
I'm not arguing for a draft, it wouldn't make sense for other reasons
but like
Big Four american sports have a ton of upsets, and they have a successful draft system still
deft valley
I don't get the connection between a draft and upsets
red anvil
teams dont need player x to be competitve
usually, exception is if your team is a mess to being with
deft valley
well yeah there's also coaching and strats and preparation
that doesn't mean draft doesn't help parity
that's like the point of it
rare sonnet
i don't think parity is ideal
just let teams do what they want and don't add restrictions
sullen berry
I think organizations may not have anticipated the demand for polyglots in order to communicate across multiple languages proficiently
they can even get by with multiple 1-to-1 translators
sullen berry
it's not the job
it's the perk of being communicative on a consistent level
I would argue english to korean is not enough to really articulate the minor represnted countries further down the line
because Shanghai dragons would need it
and would be the primary reason why they were the slowest to the fan discord rush
rare sonnet
somebody get OWL to hire that 20 language boi
warped axle
Fragi, Davin, Shaz, Biggoose, LinkZR, Taimou, Zappis
rare sonnet
rCk>Zappis?
limber pine
that's a pretty legit team
sullen berry
Finland definitely delivered more on hype AND OW League hierarchy
rare sonnet
Team finland is like team Canada where they have a perfect amount of top tier players
sullen berry
Stacked to the Perjanta seems either inappropriate or unfinished
it's decent, but I'm prepared to enjoy the struggle that may be NYXL/Team SK
aggressive lot that you just spectate in the background and watch the dust settle when their committee has figured it out
pearl stratus
I don't know how I feel about Taimou though.
His hot and cold nature is just really volatile for the world cup.
Linkzr + Davin is legit though
sullen berry
it's decent enough for group stages
pearl stratus
Is it though when you can play Linkzr?
sullen berry
like how janus could make a great world cup player
pearl stratus
Linkzrs highs on Widow might not be as peaked as Taimou.
sullen berry
he's not a winner amongst the crowd of main tanks
pearl stratus
But his overall consistency wins out, in my book.
So if you told me "Pick a Widow. Taimou or Linkzr"
I'd probably pick Linkzr in 90% of situations.
sullen berry
I can't think of a situation where I would pick him over goddam linkzr
but he is good enough to play as a sub
pearl stratus
Pure Widow maps with no potential for swap.
When Taimou is on point he's a top 3 Widow.
It's just getting him on point.
Which is why I never aggregately rate him that well.
It's similar to Diya, basically.
sullen berry
well
taimou has envyus based hero pool
linkzr covers what he doesn't play
so a decent dps duo
pearl stratus
I mean Taimou is...
Widow, McCree, Hog.
Basically.
Linkzr is Widow, McCree, Tracer, Genji and a few minor ones no one cares about anymore like Soldier.
limber pine
IMO it should be shaz and BigGoose as support
pearl stratus
Theres no other options
limber pine
sorry zuppeh
pearl stratus
Zuppeh and Freefeel can duo together as the 'Zenyattas everyone thinks are bad' comp.
red anvil
Theres just no point to play Timo over Linzkr, sorry
sullen berry
Pretty sure davin is legit, I'll need to look into him to see what can happen
warped axle
Timo plays Reaper
pearl stratus
Whats Reaper?
torpid charm
who's Reaper
raw dove
figured yall would dig my hydroflask
hushed vortex
Hello everyone! β€
sand pond
yo
hushed vortex
How are you?
hushed vortex
Yeah I guess youβre right
sand pond
Wed-Fri at work is a lot less fun when I can't listen to OWL for the tail end of it
will be a sad next few months
hushed vortex
Feels bad
Today would be a really nice and Good Friday but the only person I really care about is out looking for a new dirtbike so I just kinda have to sit here and cry and make do with these um sword maniacs in the other chat (not that thatβs a bad thing we all have what we like)
sand pond
sword maniacs?
ornate ridge
New owl team: salt lake polygamists roster will have all the best player xqc undead etc. lmk what you think
balmy wolf
xqc trach
analog pecan
@balmy wolf π
feral wing
why can you only buy the Australia, China, France, Sweden and UK world cup jerseys?
I would love to be able to buy a Team Norway jersey
upper niche
We have a guy who commissaires mountain bike events with us who always wears the Norwegian curling team pants.
gaunt acorn
@feral wing jerseys are only purchasable for teams that made it to blizzcon
so South Korea, USA, Canada, Sweden, China, France, Australia, UK
gaunt acorn
because they're sold out
rare sonnet
canada too,
Do you guys think an Australian OWL team that they potentially teased will be Melbourne or Sydney?
torpid charm
I saw Melbourne in articles but that doesn't mean much
ruby pendant
Do you know when Overwatch World Cup starts?
sullen berry
It won't be until after OW League postseason ends, so probably mid-August to give world cup crew some cooldown time
ruby pendant
k!!
brisk roost
OWWC is every November
hybrid helm
Why does it matter if a team will be named after a certain city or another if the majority of their players wonβt even be from the same country?
Is London Spitfire a βLondon based teamβ?
woven tartan
H
supple prism
you mean like Hockey?
upper niche
@hybrid helm Two reasons I can think of would be that if/when the league gets to trying to develop young/new players, but they're unable to work in that team due to a language barrier. The same applies for fans, if the club/owner wnats to market that aspect and have them available and interacting with fans, it might make it more difficult.
red anvil
@hybrid helm It's a london based team due to there home arena will assumably be in london from season 3 and onwards.
they havent done a good job to target the english audience, no. But this is something they will probably change in the future
there major team(British Hurricane) is mostly of british players
With half brits, and half other european countries
vestal mortar
At least there is an EU merch store now.
sullen berry
red anvil
I cant use the EU store in Norway 
sullen berry
why not make EU more public facing
so that way they can stop redirecting money from NZ straight to their accounts? heh
silk linden
@red anvil that's what you get for snubbing the EU 
fading meteor
When does OWL end?
sick nimbus
Playoff start July 11? Grand final 27 and 28 and I guess official official would be august after all star match
final river
i bought a ticket to see valiant on the 20th 
sullen berry
a good crowd, that's for sure
cobalt pewter
If London spitfire picked up local players, London would be super trash
balmy wolf
how do you get away jerseys for teams
supple prism
think you have to get the twitch all access pass
upper niche
and that only gives you what, 15 awayt skins
torpid charm
away jersies as in a physical Jersey or the away skins for the game?
upper niche
ingame skin
warped axle
What do you you guys think of "Seattle Skyfoxes?"
balmy wolf
how to pronounce taimou's name? Its either, Tie-moo, or as his teamates pronounce it, tee-moo
upper niche
I thought it was pronounced "Homophobe".
wheat beacon
9/
hoary raft
Am I the only one that gets tilted by squeky kids in voice chats?
I mean it just makes my head hurt when someone is speaking with a very high pitch voice
sullen berry
I think it's the immaturity that gets to me more than the squeakers
I have found the rare game where they know their stuff
but it's dangerously worse imo to assume they're out to sabotage every time they utter a word
fresh arrow
i'm low SR and honestly the squeakers are up there on my most dreaded types of players
they're tryhardy except it's less about the actual necessity and more about the flamboyance
twin dragon
if theyre making useful calls its whatever, if theyre screaming any time they die we got a problem
deft valley
why is this in esports wew
balmy wolf
so he is teemo?
balmy wolf
lol shanghai dragons suck dick
dont know why everyone praises them
0/40 is kinda bad
deft valley
no one praises them
misty cave
YOUD BE SURPRISED
deft valley
not that youβd actually know anything about overwatch considering your posts here so far
people like Geguri
they donβt call Dragons good
misty cave
?
deft valley
iβd you mean the not youβd know comment, itβs about theodore
he just comes in to shitpost
misty cave
Oooh
There is a lot of praise for the team but its basically all for geguri, it's kinda sad to see a team of "decent" players to be degraded down to one person
Ask anyone about the dragons and they'll say geguri
verbal roost
Itβs part kindness and part pity/compassion
torn cape
verbal roost
This is an example of paytolose
pearl stratus
Side note: They say Geguri because of her meme fan base (shes a pro at memes now) and her genital parts.
Pros don't talk about her.
They talk about Ado.
Most pros when mentioning Shanghai talk about how dangerous Ado is, and Diya to some extent.
misty cave
Diya is a scary widow
sullen berry
and hypnos
pearl stratus
Because Geguri and Fearless never had the proper sync she's not worth talking about on the pro level. Her individual play is great.
sullen berry
we don't speak of his alter mater
pearl stratus
But tanking isn't about individual play.
misty cave
Feedfeel is pretty good
pearl stratus
Eh, he's better than Sky, about the same as Rawkus honestly.
He's in the club of 'What the fuck was that positioning' Zenyattas.
sullen berry
Uprising's Gamsu (as an example) never tanks in solo, you can see him constantly talk to his team between each round
misty cave
What's up with rawkus man, I dont see any plays from that guy ever
pearl stratus
Chipsajen.
He's an exploitable weakness with his positioning, he was one of the first to fall to the Jjonak emulation fever.
sullen berry
everyone in the Dragons' roster have not lived up to their hype.. to the point they win games
pearl stratus
He's not a bad Zenyatta, but he's got a weird dichotomy in the team.
He's more consistent now than the last few stages, Houston isn't about aggressive play.
They just aren't good at it.
So when they had to be aggressive it was at the expense of leaving Rawkus wide open
And it was exploited every time.
silk linden
rawkus must have died to more EMPs than all other zens combined
verbal roost
Will shd management start to pop like boiled sausage if record goes to 0-60?
pearl stratus
No,.
People are still dumb af about Shanghai and treat them like they're Florida.
They have money and one of the largest, but dwindling, talent pools in the world.
Shanghai is literally basically Blizzard China
But people are retarded af and don't realize it.
silk linden
yes, which makes their failure even worse
pearl stratus
It makes their failure their failure.
silk linden
they have the biggest pool to pull from in the world, yet they signed 4 koreans during the season
pearl stratus
Florida is by far the worst.
MisFits fucked that team over so hard.
And kept 4 players individually less skilled than any Dragon on the roster.
Cwoosh, Zuppeh and Zebbo are most likely all going to get released, I would assume.
Note: Post Korean Shanghai, not pre.
Roshan etc were garbage tier.
silk linden
Misfits fell into the Fuel fallacy, but without any reason to do so. Fuel thought they would roll through everyone without putting in effort to improve because they were so much better than everyone before the OWL, while Mayhem made no changes whatsoever despite being a team of has beens for months
pearl stratus
Mayhem is stuck in a year old meta dynamic where they think their DPS can carry bad tank and support play.
Which it could... last year.
silk linden
yep
pearl stratus
DPS is arguably the least important role in the OWL right now.
Don't get me wrong, having a Libero or an Agilities/Hydration is HUGE for an organization.
But only when the tanks and supports can make the room for them to go bananas.
silk linden
while Fuel were stuck in a dynamic where no coordination and strategy could be overcome by raw skill gap
pearl stratus
Fuel arguably also never understood how Dive works at a fundamental level.
silk linden
at least Fuel managed to learn the proper teamplay eventually
pearl stratus
They had one realistic dive player and he got himself released (xQc).
Beyond that they're a brawler organization.
They play the tank metas really well.
silk linden
I wonder if Aero could teach them a passable dive though
pearl stratus
With OGE and Seagull yes. But its more conditional on who they release and pick up.
silk linden
it's not impossible to teach dive to a team, Fissure did it
pearl stratus
Ideally I'd release: Chips, AKM, Cocco at the minimum.
I'd move Mickie to coaching.
And go from there.
silk linden
I can see Chips staying, as a third support, if they see potential in him to adapt to modern overwatch
pearl stratus
Taimou I'm on the fence with.
Part of me says release him.
The other part of me looks at how high his highs are.
And I think if you can get him on enough prozac to keep him there, he'd be amazing.
You need to treat his mental state a lot better, and get him to a consistent level.
I'd even take a drop in his highest highs for consistency.
silk linden
if they release AKM, I can see Unkoe wanting to leave though
and Unkoe is like, one of the three most important players in that roster
but yeah, as it is it's not really smart to have Effect/Taimou/AKM
unless one of them really starts flexing
because as it is, they are basically identical, just in descending order of skill
pearl stratus
I think if Effect comes back, because we'll see on that really, the meta might show us more of his flex.
silk linden
if Effect starts flexing and the Tracer meta doesn't come back, then all 4 can stay, why not. Unless Dallas get the chance to pick up better alternatives
tight vault
pliant pollen
π
warped axle
Chips has a great Ana, so you dont drop him
AKM might transfer to the inevitable new French team
Cocco's done
He would be better as a coach
silk linden
I'm sure Unkoe can get a good Ana, with how skilled he is mechanically. Chips's mechanical skills don't warrant putting him in over Unkoe if he doesn't communicate, and you're also betting on Ana ever being viable again. Players who are masters at a single hero are a thing of the past
pearl stratus
When Bunny swaps off of Tracer, you know one tricks are useless parts of your roster.
If you have someone who can only play one thing, send em to contenders.
silk linden
rip Striker
ember jewel
Mayhem straight up kicks both supports to Contenders and hire new ones
pearl stratus
Striker always had a pool though, he was playing Junkrat and stuff.
I mean... HagoPeun is joining Mayhem Academy.
So.
:mystery:
warped axle
HagoPeun on Mayhem would improve the team immensely
Seoul should trade Gambler to Mayhem
sick nimbus
Personally i never like the way hago played tank yeah he was good but he didn't feel like he was at the same level of gesture or fissure but agree he would probably be a help to Mayhem
sullen berry
we've watched seoul dynasty's rise and drop off, ama
on the brighter side, whatever's been going on internally
at least he gets to play in the starting all stars lineup which means free ticket to new york
neat slate
imo Seoul suffered from big ego they went into to OWL the camps and couldnt belive they werent and didnt put proper preparation into the OWL and it showed hard
sullen berry
big ego was about a third of the teams coming into the league
valiant and uprising in comparison were so humble
fuel were putting a lot of faith in their previous gains, which only left them burned out faster than mayhem and the dragons
neat slate
Well Fuel were more about hype, they were a considered the best western team and just picked Seagull (Sorta like a month before OWL) and XQC so on paper it looked like they were set turns out Kyky cant be a head a coach and XQC cant stay outa trouble, and team lost hope. and stopped playing to there best.
4-5 
warped axle
Miro is washed up
sullen berry
I don't understand how kuki decided to have a fall out
sullen berry
Mr X went and suggested Xepher could have made the transition to main tank
but either the coaches or he himself didn't give it the chance like taimou on main tank
heh
warped axle
Xepher could have made the transition to Plat where he belongs
sullen berry
most thought wekeed was at the same tier
warped axle
Wekeed is good
sullen berry
and I guess when aim isn't your goal, he can come off that way
sullen berry
limited given his diverse hero pool
I think mastery is what he lacks being their flex dps
but you could say that for mistakes
or anyone that's not in the top 6 for playoffs
warped axle
yeah Mistakes too
warped axle
Jake too
warped axle
Jake is actually way more limited than Wekeed and Mistakes
sullen berry
and that's the trend with OW League demanding more diversity
I love it imo
whether it's good or wildly inconsistent
that's an entire research/analysis for Medium to write up
I find agilities
has broken out
thanks to all that effort in the Valiant camp keeping him in top form
warped axle
I still think Hydration is better than Agilities
Agilities definitely improved a lot
sullen berry
absolutely agree
if you put them in an isolated 1v1, hydration would have the narrow advantage
if you throw soon and surefour in the mix
that's where i reckon the valiant duo has better synergy
verbal roost
Will AI disrupt esports?
magic zinc
ember jewel
Mayhem Academy with a better roster than the OWL Mayhem LUL
humble moth
When are the playoffs?
tawny sigil
11th
humble moth
thanks
balmy wolf
sullen berry
I will no go into details on why I took this decision, but one thing is sure, I am more than frustrated on how teams like EnVision, not associated to any Overwatch League Academy teams have been treated. After injecting so much into helping build the Overwatch scene, it sucks to realize that I had no support whatsoever, and my contribution did not matter.
something tells me blizzard's iron grip is really squeezing teams that really deserve a shot
balmy wolf
how do you get in game away jersey skins in overwatch
balmy wolf
o
red anvil
@gaunt acorn Should have waited until there is an official announcement there
gaunt acorn
they don't even have an official twitter
red anvil
Blizz will announce the rosters
gaunt acorn
i'm not really sure what the situation is
red anvil
Teams are not even allowed to say which 7 players is allowed to go
because they have to wait for blizz
gaunt acorn
well we've been posting the team announcements
red anvil
yeah but the ones you've posted so far is the 12 players that "is" on the roster
thats considerably more then 12 players
gaunt acorn
idk i guess
seems like a mess of organization
the official SHD twitter posted stuff
and have now taken it down
saying sky made it on the starting roster and diya + 2 others were backups
red anvil
Probably deleted it due to them not being allowed to announce the starting roster
gaunt acorn
guess we'll wait then but i'm not sure where it'll be announced officially
i don't browse weibo
red anvil
it will be announced on the World cup pages
gaunt acorn
every other announcement we've done has just been a release from the country teams
sullen berry
if weibo's friend recommendations are anything like twitter
you probably won't have to take too long to pick up all of the OW L eague relevant talent
gaunt acorn
sullen berry
each name in this announcement
is not a good sign they're accepting better pretenders
red anvil
the roster is really f. good
gaunt acorn
red anvil
and they stated that they purposely dont play SHD players so they can rest
gaunt acorn
so i mean it seems they made their mind up
idk what press release we're gonna get today
sullen berry
so I take it they put on a nice spin on calling them the full roster
red anvil
it seems, but still weird.
they are not allowed to have that many players in the roster and as backups
fairly certain the 12 player thing was due to the china bullshit last year
red anvil
i dont expect much out of russia this year but it will be good
deft valley
it's basically Mistakeburn plus cishope
and we're in korea's qualifier again
sooo yea
sullen berry
lol korea
sullen berry
I'm not sure if I can call it an aggressive cockfight for league players or popping off with 20% new talent
gaunt acorn
we can't win vs korea but
deft valley
pooping off
gaunt acorn
it's nice to make it to the end
sullen berry
@deft valley serious discussion about dps pooping off OW esports
I'd argue canada will still be in top form
red anvil
KR USA and Canada is deffo favorites for this world cup
sullen berry
and they need a really ballsy game plan against the encumbent title holders for 2 years in a row
balmy wolf
North Korea will win
red anvil
North Korea will win there own World cup league
sullen berry
Kim Jong Un's child will be the prophet of owwc and team captain
gaunt acorn
i don't think canada can beat korea but i think we can make it to the finals
balmy wolf
Heck yes
red anvil
Cant lose when there is no competition 
balmy wolf
Lool
sullen berry
I want to believe team australia is better than last year's lineup
gaunt acorn
xqc + note is gachi
red anvil
yeah but you gota remeber what USA have
sullen berry
tanks are definitely up there
gaunt acorn
aus at least put up a fight against canada last yr
red anvil
Muma CM, Fctfctn Space
gaunt acorn
muma + cm OVERRATED
sullen berry
Japan also
gaunt acorn
americans OUTDATED
sullen berry
that clutch pulse bomb
balmy wolf
Denmark has dafran
gaunt acorn
no they don't
red anvil
They dont Cash
gaunt acorn
he isn't playing
red anvil
hes not on the roster
red anvil
the roster is announced
gaunt acorn
red anvil
Dafran is not interested in playing
balmy wolf
Why is he not in it
red anvil
Because Denmark have a lottttt of talent
gaunt acorn
he didn't want to play
red anvil
He's there burger flipper
balmy wolf
I wanted to see him play ):
red anvil
Shax and Ficher 
sullen berry
you can't win "for the memes", a number of reports made against him also don't make it out that he will be a net benefit if you've seen any owl teams integrate really good players and still flop in the scoreboard
gaunt acorn
shax and fischer are like scuffed shaz and fissure
sullen berry
is it pronounced similary to fissure
red anvil
yeah fairly similar
sullen berry
my mind can't unlink the sch sound
red anvil
there is a u sound in fissure tho
sullen berry
like schism
red anvil
which seperates them