#esports-discussion
torpid charm
pearl stratus
Either way its been building up.
His tweet before that was 'The team changes or I leave'
So
Hastr0 #1.
pearl stratus
There's not a single team that needs him that would use him.
Which sucks.
He's better off hanging out till Season 2 and trying to move to a new fresh team.
red anvil
Seoul can possibly take him in, depending on Kox situation
pearl stratus
His play style isn't conducive to Seoul.
red anvil
wont be able to play before season 2 regardless
pearl stratus
It's why they got rid of Bunny.
red anvil
effect is aggressive, but far far less aggrassive then bunny
remeber that effect played around the slowest MT in OW for a year
pearl stratus
But we need to free Cocco.
pearl stratus
Cocco should go analyst, and desked.
red anvil
and never picked up again :c
pearl stratus
I could easily see him doing a Reinforce-esque desk position.
pearl stratus
Eh they're giving Bren vocal lessons to remove the marbles from his mouth
They could do so for Cocco.
We need more players on the desk either way.
Even if its just people who aren't playing that day.
red anvil
if anything team analyist is what he will be doing
rapid bobcat
pearl stratus
If they stopped him from chewing gum I wouldn't mind seeing Jake on the desk.
Shadowburn if they taught him to smile and not look like he's going to murder you and eat your young.
Or Seagull.
silk linden
Anyone really. Did they invite anyone to the desk after that time with Boombox?
silk linden
Guys I just had the biggest big brain realization
Harryhook on Tracer
You heard it here first
torpid charm
they switch around roles like crazy so they might as well
red anvil
Carryhook is too great for tracer
silk linden
Btw why does that cunt Thoorin choose the worst way to post his fucking podcast
Livestream on twitch then upload to YouTube like two days later
I want to stream the audio you dunce
I'm not gonna sit down at my computer to stare at Montecristo for three hours
I wanna listen to it while I drive
limber pine
I read somewhere that Thoorin hates podcasts
silk linden
You can read here that I hate Thoorin for it
pearl stratus
If you replace the T in Thoorin with a W, you get his momma.
silk linden
I mean it's not like I don't get to listen to his show as a podcast anyway. I just have to wait for the upload and download the audio file. He just makes things complicated for no reason
red anvil
Thorin afraid that he will mess up again
red anvil
He got fired from ESL for being a twat vs. The polish on chanmans stream
balmy wolf
Anyone have tickets for sale for this Saturdays OWL?
silk linden
Follow @ SpriteGuy on Twitter
limber pine
Following me on twitter is boring
pearl stratus
Follow me. I think I posted once on twitter like 2 years ago
silk linden
Follow Slasher on Twitter for reliable leaks alternating with literally the worst hot takes in the scene
limber pine
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pearl stratus
Is it wrong I'm more excited to see Dallas without Effect?
It's going to be like a train wreck.
And we're going to stream it to thousands of people.
limber pine
who dae playing
idk Florida may not be terrible
Boston is gonna be murder though
pearl stratus
The way Florida has been playing, Logix specifically, lately.
Means murder to me
Because I could trust Effect to keep Logix in check.
AKM Tracer vs. Logix Tracer/
Meurte.
oak schooner
oh i was talking about just the wednesday games mb
pearl stratus
I wonder if Unkoe is still "sick" for Wednesday.
Jesus that sentence I just typed was like the Dallas fuel.
Just everything went wrong.
At Fuel, every now and then we would have lengthy discussions in English, so you couldn’t expect the Koreans to follow along. You could tell there was a major disconnect between the Western and Korean players because every time we had these major discussions it was either fully in English or fully in Korean; at every point, one half was getting left out. It was definitely a hindrance to the team.
Oh Custa.
Fuel kind of wanted a leader, but the biggest problem was that it’s a very old team and a lot of people were stuck in their old habits, for the most part, they didn’t want someone who was speaking for on their behalf or trying to be a guiding figure.
Custa for team leader on any team he's on from now on please.
fresh turret
wait wtf happened wuth effect
pallid cargo
Custa must be so happy
pearl stratus
I think the least happy person on Valiant right now, based on their last video, is Soon.
pallid cargo
I don't keep up with the Valiant's videos, what's up with Soon?
pearl stratus
They have the 4-4-4 set up right now in terms of DPS-Tanks-Support.
And they're kind of playing whoever is best. And Soon doesn't like that system.
With some rotation based on map needs, etc.
pallid cargo
I thought their rotation's been pretty good so far.
pearl stratus
Yeah me too. I think he just feels like he should start more, since with the old LAV he was in for everything all the time.
pallid cargo
Minus some missteps
pearl stratus
I think he'll adjust to a more meritocracy set up.
Also he's been working on his flex, because his flex gets him more play time.
Since Bunny is a better Tracer.
pallid cargo
IMO Bunny is a better Tracer, but Soon's flexibility is more needed on some maps
Soon flexes more
Who is the 4th Val DPS?
Oh, KSF.
pearl stratus
Bunny, Soon, Agilities, KSF who I don't think is there yet?
pearl stratus
Izayaki will be getting there eventually too.
pallid cargo
Finnsi also joined on the 4th
pearl stratus
Yeah, but thats really just competition for Space.
pallid cargo
Yeah.
pearl stratus
I personally like the way LAV Set up their roster.
They have a back up for everything.
pallid cargo
Haven't really seen Verbo play much recently, but I guess the map pool favors Mercy
pearl stratus
And it makes coaching really easy.
Moon made a point to say its sometimes hard to coach someone who knows they're gauranteed a spot.
Because you're kind of stuck.
pearl stratus
Yeah.
I've only really ever seen him play Genji.
But that usually means a projectile pool.
pallid cargo
It's looking pretty good, Val's rotations.
2 projectile DPS, flex hitscan, and a tracer specialist.
pearl stratus
Yeah they've got two projectile, one hitscan, one tracer.
pallid cargo
I was worried about Soon's performance after they started having Bunny as their Tracer but he's done super well lately.
pearl stratus
I like LAV, LAG and Houstons dps set ups.
Because they're really weird and flexible.
pallid cargo
I love watching Houston play.
pearl stratus
They definitely still have some issues, but their improvements have been noticeable.
vestal berry
What does shadow burn get used for if EQO is playing everything?
pallid cargo
Even though they lack a dedicated Tracer, they've done well considering.
pearl stratus
Keeping the bench warm.
pallid cargo
I hope that teams start to dig into their benches more as time goes on.
oak schooner
sdb should join dallas
pallid cargo
I think it's obvious seeing lately that playing every match like Effect has is not healthy.
pearl stratus
Most of the successful teams have, really.
oak schooner
they need a genji player
pearl stratus
Dallas is screwed really.
Unless they put up money I'd rather be benched on another team
Than join them
vestal berry
Who is the possible swap for freefeel on shanghai?
pearl stratus
Sky, who was also underperforming.
Freefeel is in sort of a lower skilled Rawkus situation.
oak schooner
they fucked up when they didnt pick up envy
pearl stratus
His positioning is bad, and he gets left alone a lot.
Which both is, and isn't, his fault depending on the situation.
pallid cargo
If they dropped Rascal I doubt Envy would have made it much longer.
pearl stratus
They need to avoid Korean players
And they need to get rid of most of the EnvyUS players.
They basically need clean slate.
pallid cargo
Going off what Custa said, their team environment is a korean nightmare.
vestal berry
What did cloud9 get turned into? Nyxl?
pearl stratus
Also if he's correct it means the old players are way too used to how they did things and aren't modernizing well.
London
vestal berry
Ah ok
pallid cargo
The old players were too focused on past successes and couldn't adapt as quickly to the format of OWL.
OWL is a marathon.
It's constant effort and improvement
And Dallas seemed to just think they were the best
Meanwhile, teams with "bad" rosters like Boston and Philly constantly improved, and you see where that's got them now.
pearl stratus
I blame the org for that, based on how Hastr0 talks.
"We have 10 years of success..." blah blah blah blah.
No one gives a fuck.
pallid cargo
I think it's a popular sentiment to blame Hastr0 but I think that having a team of egos who were so used to winning was also a large part of it.
Not to mention how much inner turmoil went on during stage 1.
pearl stratus
It's up to the org to stop that kind of stuff though. If Kyky is being too buddy buddy, or something you lean on Kyky to fix it, etc.
pallid cargo
Their main tank couldn't keep himself out of trouble.
pearl stratus
They let it go for two stages.
pallid cargo
The management didn't do much to help xqc either.
pearl stratus
Eh that's kind of unknown though, they may have attempted a lot more and xQc didn't take a bunch of it, etc.
pallid cargo
You have another main tank on the roster who was 'broken'
Whatever people think of xqc's situation, having a player that kept getting suspended has to breed some resentment.
pearl stratus
Without a doubt. I just mean we don't know what help was offered. I could see xQc not accepting a lot of help too. Just more mentioning that its an unknown variable we can't really comment on
pallid cargo
If xqc did what Seagull did in forgoing his stream to focus on being a professional, we'd likely see a much different Dallas Fuel.
I guess you can't hold everyone to Seagull's standard though. The dude is insanely professional.
Other teams have members fined / suspended for stupid stuff as well.
You guys think Blizzard world will stay in the map rotation for stage 4?
I'd hate to see King's Row get left out.
pearl stratus
I think it'd be interesting to keep it.
Because it'd be the new one.
So it'd be a completely different BW from Stage 3
silk linden
Dallas straight up need a drill sergeant. Wake up at 5 am, obligatory exercise, emotional abuse, get out of line once and you skip dinner
No time to feel depressed it you're turned into an emotionless gaming machine
pearl stratus
Also I keep rereeading Mendo's comment (when I can find it, then I lose it for a while) and I legit feel bad for the kid, but I'm glad that Tairong is daily trying to help him find therapists, etc, etc.
silk linden
Full metal jacket that joint
pallid cargo
I think happy, rested players breed success.
silk linden
The day Mickie isn't smiling anymore is the day they go 10-0
pearl stratus
I just want to know where Mickie buys his drugs.
silk linden
I wonder if he's had something traumatic happening to him
pearl stratus
Who knows, he may have just hard a hard life growing up so losing in a video game is kind of whatever in the long run.
silk linden
Yeah
But that's the wrong attitude
Not a winning mentality
No "it's just a game have fun" bullshit
pallid cargo
Effect has had a 'winning' mentality and look at him now.
I think the bigger problem is that Dallas isn't all on the same page mentality wise.
pearl stratus
I mean Mickie is their weakest D'va, so it matches up, honestly.
They're not, its why I said you need to remove EnvyUS.
Out with the old, in with the new.
pallid cargo
I hope they get a head coach who can whip them into shape, but they also need to be in a good headspace.
pearl stratus
Get a bunch of 18 year old kids from contenders who really want to win.
pallid cargo
Mostly I feel for Unkoe on that team. Dude got absolutely shafted.
pallid cargo
I mean, still.
pearl stratus
LAV: "Here. Have our toxic af baguette piece of shit. We'll take Custa."
pallid cargo
I'm happy that LAV is now positive.
pearl stratus
Dallas: "Everyone around here is already miserable. This sounds good to me."
pallid cargo
Idk what Dallas was thinking with that trade.
pearl stratus
I mean Dallas needed a Zen.
Thats what they were thinking
Dallas is one of the few teams in the league, imo, who haven't learned the lesson that talent means shit without cohesion.
hidden vault
I thought EnvyUs had that Cohesion going on
can't custa play Zen? he played it didn't he
also Bunny's play style is too aggressive for Seoul???
limber pine
probably moreso LAV wanting him than Seoul needing him
And that's lead to the "Let's Dive Fleta" metagame
hidden vault
hahaha
pearl stratus
It's not even reliance on Fleta.
Munchkin just isn't good.
He hasn't changed since Stage 1, no improvement at all.
hidden vault
but they kicked Bunny 🤷
pearl stratus
Because Seoul isn't an aggressive team, they don't play it well. And Bunny and Effect both play a very aggressive, nearly lone wolf, Tracer.
It's super obvious.
hidden vault
Well either Bunny has to change his play style or Munchkin has to step up
if not new tracer!!
pearl stratus
Or Bunny can go to LAV and have a near perfect win streak on every map he plays.
pearl stratus
Seoul is not a top team anymore, far from it. Their normal adaptive play style has regressed pretty heavily and their older roster members are showing their age in inconsistency.
hidden vault
They seriously sound like the EnvyUs of Seoul
silk linden
dallas Fuel need corporal punishment
silk linden
whippings and insults
hazy arrow
same for stage 4
and we wont finish in top 6 general
so let just everybody play, get everybody on a happy mood
pearl stratus
I'd be surprised if Effect even comes back from Korea.
hazy arrow
also, Effect can rest a bit
i mean, we need him only for one match i the rest of this season
pearl stratus
He'll have a friend have a wedding, then get released and go play on a better team in Contenders till Season 2.
hazy arrow
let also Chips and Cocco play
Let Cocco go Locco
and most importantly, bring in the new coach
pearl stratus
The fact you think Cocco should play is sad.
pearl stratus
Well you keep giving bad ones, so I assumed yes.
hazy arrow
so keep it to yourself
hazy arrow
i think the new coach should be introduced this week
something like this was said in the statement when Kyky was released
hidden vault
Since you release kyky it isn't EnVyUs anymore
might as well release the rest of the "EnVyUs" players too
bitter fable
?
pearl stratus
I think we'll see, heading to season 2 a bunch of the bench people being released/moved to new positions.
I like that Grimreality showed that you can take a bench and make a coach out of them though, so maybe we'll see more lateral movement from those people.
But players like Cocco, Mendo? I don't see them staying on payrolls a lot longer in their current roles.
bitter fable
Is any of these for xbox one?
torpid charm
Sado streamed today and I've never been happier
limber pine
@pearl stratus I said a while ago something along the same lines. You're going to see a long of movement, even from teams that do well.
pearl stratus
I honestly think we'll see a few retirements too - as weird as that sounds. I don't forsee RHJ for instance really maintaining this for multiple seasons.
He's... old.
For the sport at least.
pearl stratus
I think he'd potentially be better moving into a coaching spot, either way. He was one of my more excited to see people, and he's kind of had a meh performance across the board.
Stage 1 just being the fault that no one on Seoul could play Mercy well, at all.
rare sonnet
Pros never really expected mercy to ever be meta
Because you always need one support to appeal to new people
Why force her on the higher tiers
And then blizzard did just that
fresh turret
I wish Lucio was more of a viable main healer at the level
silk linden
he's viable, just not as good as mercy
the biggest issue with meta and viability really is, there's only 6 spots
it's not like Lucio is bad, or strictly worse than mercy
it's just that the choice is hard, and mercy is more of a guarantee right now in most situations
and as much as they like to claim otherwise, OW doesn't encourage hero switching very much, with the ult economy
so you gotta commit to picks
and if it's just easier to commit to heros that work in most situations
like, say, Doomfist might be better than tracer in like 15%, even 20% of situations, but why risk it
fresh turret
yep
pearl stratus
Also synergy. Widow enables Mercy, Mercy enables Widow. So you can run your Lucio, but having a damage boosted Widow who will (typically) die in a ressable position is huge because it allows you to trade.
Widow/Soldier/McCree/Junkrat/Pharah all really are enabled and enable Widow to be a solid pick.
silk linden
widow play particularly has reached absurd levels
pearl stratus
Yeah. LAN has really let people hone their abilities like crazy
pearl stratus
She can shut down an entire push herself, which we've seen multiple times.
Especially on Anubis.
Going for the push, Zen ded2hed.
Push reset.
silk linden
and the weird thing is I don't even see how they could nerf her, because she's only OP if you're a god player on lan
how do you even nerf a hero to make it jus as viable at low level and less viable at high level?
Nay, super high level
because some of these strats aren't even possible in GM
pearl stratus
It's like D'va - you have a tightrope balance.
But there's such a fine line between a nerf, and making her garbage.
silk linden
maybe have a meta that's hard to coordinate and it's super good at countering her
silk linden
aka Make Reinhardt Great Again
pearl stratus
Like she's somewhat rare on 2CP, and most KoTH with your certain oddities (Ruins/Temple, Volskaya A)
vestal berry
Hedge maze map?
Most of the map will be blocked by the high walls that widow can only snipe by looking down on em
pearl stratus
To me Widow is most scary on the maps where she's almost impossible to counter.
Like last point Gibraltar if you're pushing the cart and she gets that high ground.
Because you can't leave the cart to go after her.
Which is just nightmarish.
Same with last point Hollywood.
(For defenders, not attackers)
silk linden
I once won the match and got POTG on gibraltar defense by hooking behind the team and murdering them from the back, on a platform I hadn't even noticed was there
torpid charm
#BringBackZaryaMeta
pearl stratus
We'll get some Zarya with Brigitte on a few maps.
silk linden
again, zarya isn't in the game just because she isn't Dva or Winston
right now there's not reason to have non mobile tanks
pearl stratus
King's Row and Rialto will both become tri-tank maps, I feel.
Though they still need to fix last point Rialto.
silk linden
when the two most mobile tanks have armor, shields and defense matrix
pearl stratus
Right now last point Rialto is so dark the cops keeping shooting at it.
silk linden
cmon
torpid charm
I know, I just wish I could see more of her.
silk linden
it's italy
torpid charm
YO LMAO STOP
torpid charm
poor Effect
limber pine
Taimou and Seagull on dps like it's 2016
pearl stratus
Taimou probably won't play this week.
After going to the hospital yesterday.
At least I'd keep him benched and resting, if I was a Dallas Coach.
Which means he'll probably be playing Zenyatta.
limber pine
oh yeah I meant AKM
silk linden
is akm tracer worse than jake?
limber pine
at least you can see progression with Jake on Tracer
torpid charm
that was funny af
limber pine
this past week was his best yet
silk linden
I'm almost sure i would have used that pulse better than him
like he just had to throw it inside that room
huge room
pearl stratus
I mean sure.
silk linden
full of players
pearl stratus
But so did Profit.
And if one of the best Tracers in the league pulls the same fuck up before you
You get away with it lol
silk linden
profit's wasted pulse was more understandable
vestal berry
The widow battles on junkertown are getting kinda old
pearl stratus
Would it have changed the game? I completely doubt it.
silk linden
yeah but exactly, he was at the end of a match, was shaking and trying everything
pearl stratus
But now there will forever be a "What if" surrounding that match.
silk linden
jake was carrying out a plan and failed
had zero pressure
all he had to do was two blinks, turn right, Q, recall
he didn't turn right enough
pearl stratus
All in all though, he had a solid game going up against of the scariest Tracer duelists.
Him and Linkzr.
fresh turret
Pine is so fucking good btw
They just talked abouthim on OverSight
When's Watchpoint?
Or rather, how long until watchpoint?
pearl stratus
Rofl. Twitter: "Fragi is getting his hair and beard cut."
Everyone: "This is more disappointing than the Fuel."
silk linden
second most tragic OW beard loss since Jeff's
dusky oracle
The beard is the source of his power
silk linden
I guess summer in california must be brutal for a bearded nordic
ruby pendant
@pearl stratus lol
torpid charm
Eqo, Neptuno, and Boombox got their hair dyed though
pearl stratus
Didn't Boombox go LAG colors from the orange?
paper crag
i wonder if we're gonna have to make another time unit for AKM
if he goes tracer
how long do you guys think 1 APP will be?
silk linden
it's physically impossible to charge a pulse bomb longer than a dragonblade
paper crag
but taking longer than dragonblade isn't a prerequisite to getting a time unit
in fact, since it's going to be shorter, we could make a APP to ADB ratio
pearl stratus
I mean we also may get GDB (Gull Dragon Blade) units of measurement since he hasn't DPS'd in forever.
paper crag
i think SDB should be the duration of time shadowburn has gone without being played
pearl stratus
Also the post I linked earlier about Effect being back in Korea got removed from the COW reddit.
silk linden
i mean does it even add much?
pearl stratus
None of the posts do. The mods for the COW reddit are just the Dallas fuel of mods is all.
torpid charm
@pearl stratus ya I think he's purple now
pearl stratus
Traitor. Never trust the brits!
torpid charm
as long as it's not orange I am fine. I've spent my afternoon watching Sado's stream and paying close attention to what color the boys are dying their hair
better than game day
torpid charm
Boombox is purple headed now I think
nova pelican
torpid charm
Neptuno has dark blue on the top, it's lit
gaunt acorn
scarlet spear
really? like as in stay for longer as the 2 weeks he has been saying to take time off?
onyx shore
what?
red anvil
He said he dont know when he will be back
and i dont see any reason to return to OWL now for him
except the contract ... but that dont seem to be less of an issue in fuel
lilac atlas
Honestly, i think he will take a break and come back for season 2 like Envy
scarlet spear
not like envy took a voluntary break, he got released from his team
we'll see how it turns out for effect, not like his absense will change much
lilac atlas
Well in that regard yeah its not the same
But they were both caught up in some team issues
red anvil
Well it was still his own choice of rather looking for a new team then riding the bench
and they had already found finnsi to replace him
so he he was released
lilac atlas
Is there a new head coach for DF yet?
red anvil
nope, there testing out some
lilac atlas
Hmm... stage 3 is pretty much a waste then
red anvil
i am looking forward to seeing them humiliated this week 
okai that is maybe even a bit too mean to the players
torpid charm
#SaveEffect
tight vault
lament dune
They could have a really good match, but they only have a shot against Mayhem ore maybe Fuel.
They just don't have the comms rn.
torpid charm
yes, it was.
hidden vault
Envy should have just settled with the Competition with Space tbh
Since Fate bunny and KariV would probably favour him over Space
torpid charm
I'm not saying that Envy was bad but I feel like Space is better, I do understand what you mean though
hidden vault
Yeah i do
But I would also rather stay on the team where I would still be played and get paid
And still have a shot at the main roster
limber pine
pearl stratus
Traversing back to the Effect argument from a few hours ago (since I was asleep) - this isn't an uncommon thing in sports when you know you don't have a chance at a championship.
You'll see lots of roster changes to rest talent and let them get their mind right.
So while it sucks that Effect may be there until Stage 4/Season 2 - its not super uncommon, especially if he hates being where he is and is getting you negative results.
limber pine
@silk linden http://alverniaplanet.com/index.php/gallery
pearl stratus
I think its pretty obvious, watching this burn out rate increase into Stage 3 we're going to see teams settle into a much smaller scrimming schedule, with some small restrictions on streaming too
balmy wolf
One thing I think teams should do (idk if they do this already) is have other activities to help with team play and teamwork. It can be as simple as going to an amusement park and playing a sport but I think it will really help.
Cause I feel scrimming might be taking a toll on the players
pearl stratus
Most teams do, honestly.
But we don't see those teams having melt downs so its quick to forget.
NYXL right now is the smartest one. They're scrimming less, and going out more. They just got the new puppy, etc.
Philly has been seen spending a lot of time with Heidi, swimming, group haircuts/dying.
The biggest disconnect though is its really easy to embrace that slower life style when you're winning, and teams need to account for that.
NYXL can afford to be that laid back, Philly is right in the middle (but I still think its the right move after seeing their burnout last week with NYXL then losing the next day)
But the prime example would be Florida, who have a pretty bad record but I wouldn't say play bad.
And they've gone on record a few times saying they dont' scrim that often, and do more vod review.
And I think thats the right transition - you can still "practice" without playing with your vod review and strategy meetings. And those can happen in multiple environments and are much less mentally/physically taxing.
shy wind
I just realized
didn't alot of pros beforehand say that tracer needed a nerf
o_e
Now some pros are acting like the tracer nerf means she'll fall out of meta
because of a 100 damage reduction on ult
pearl stratus
The 100 damage on ult does change a lot about her though, while it seems minimal.
onyx shore
i dont think the 100 damage ult reduction will go live on stage 4 though
pearl stratus
Compound that with the fact there will be Brigitte heavy maps and you'll see a noticeable downturn in Tracer play.
onyx shore
unless blizz gonna rush it
pearl stratus
For instance a good chunk of Junkertown can become obnoxious as shit post-nerf.
limber pine
the change will certainly make it to OWL if it goes through
pearl stratus
Because you can't just pulse bomb the pirate ship anymore
Since PB doesn't kill Bastion.
shy wind
Yeah but that's one way o_o
limber pine
OWL usually brings the client up-to-date between stages with a few exceptions (ie Brigitte)
pearl stratus
That's the easiest way, especially when dealing with pros.
Pair it with Junkrat nerfs and the pirate ship is about to become very strong for pro-play
Think about lately and how much successful tires there were versus ineffective tires.
The speed reduction means an exponentially large amount of tires will be destroyed in pro-play.
silk linden
JTown won't be in stage 4 at least. Maybe it'll be fixed by season 2
pearl stratus
However we're unlikely to see JTown in S4, like Veex just said.
silk linden
Although we'll see it in the post season
pearl stratus
But thats not the only place where Pirate ship can work.
silk linden
Imagine the grand finals in JTown and bworld
shy wind
dive generally works better in every other place but jtown
that's the love/hate relationship
with the map
pearl stratus
But its more that I don't, personally, think that PBomb should be unable to kill any non-tank.
Not that Bastion is an insane issue.
But it also doesn't kill Tele/Shield gen
silk linden
Symm meta incoming you say
silk linden
What if p bomb didn't hurt tracer anymore
pearl stratus
With Shield Gen up a Tracers pulse bomb can't kill anyone.
pearl stratus
People are going to be spending the next month complaining about Hanzo being better than pre-scatter arrow anyway
So it'll be fun
pearl stratus
Blizzard has been listening to people not pros.
onyx shore
i wonder how the pros would use storm arrow
pearl stratus
So don't even finish the rgument.
onyx shore
well,this game is the most casualized fps
shy wind
People complained with sombra, oh wait she's still meh who would've thunk 
pearl stratus
@onyx shore Libero played him.
It was basically 20 minutes of him fucking everyone in the mouth.
He was killing the enemy winston before he landed on 90% of his jumps.
onyx shore
faster arrow speed will make this even scarier
pearl stratus
I also watched him de-mech a Dva in, roughly, 1.2 seconds?
She had no more DMatrix, storm arrowed her giant fucking hit box.
Demeched.
Killed the baby.
Before Storm arrow ended.
shy wind
But yeah besides with bastion, that's basically the only really deduction I can see from pulsebomb nerfs
which if the only way to take down pirateship was a simple fast charging ult
that's a problem in itself
pearl stratus
Doesn't matter if thats a problem in itself, none of the pirate ship heroes will be touched.
Because on their own none of them matter.
shy wind
Well besides Orisa, but nerfing tanks atm just seems like bullying.
pearl stratus
Orisa barely matters
She exists for like..
3 maps.
Four if you count the 1-2 KoTH variants she's not horrible on.
solid spear
Pirate ships like
not that good anyway
and you dont see that much Tracer on JT to begin with
pearl stratus
Point A at least, you usually see a rotation to her on B if anywhere.
But, no one in OWL has run a full pirate in a while because it was way too easy to counter.
solid spear
and no ones playing Bastion past point 1 unless theyre snowbaling
even on point 1 its not common anymore
pearl stratus
Most of the nerfs are just going to make ladder play cancer, which is already a problem.
balmy wolf
Yeah ok that a lot of the Korean teams prefer not to run pirate ship compared to the western teams
torpid charm
6 support meta incoming, just wait on it
solid spear
ladders gonna be cancer regardless
they hardly touched Brigitte
Tracer nerf is still 100% warranted anyway
pearl stratus
I mean they didn't need to touch that much, the biggest thing they needed to fix was the shield cone. Beyond that people just need to adjust some picks on some maps.
We'll see a little resurgence in Pharah here and there.
shy wind
and soldier
silk linden
And JUNKRAT
pearl stratus
Junks nerfs are enough I wouldn't even bring him out in a lot of situations anymore.
You're better off with other choices.
balmy wolf
Im just extremely upset that Genji is falling off the meta slowly. All these high skill heroes are going off the radar with the addition of these low skill, no aim counters to flankers
shy wind
It's also an ult which they slowed to the point a silver mercy can kill it if he/she catches it fast enough
solid spear
the speed was reduced by 8%
pearl stratus
But it also charges slower too, inherently.
shy wind
I think people forget that there was a point where junkrat ult was literally the worst ultimate in the game.
solid spear
chill
shy wind
yes, even worse than mcrees
pearl stratus
You seem to think I'm not chill. I've been playing with it for the last week.
pearl stratus
All I'm saying is a lot of situations where Junk was an easy solution he's not that much anymore. Between the slower charge speed and slow ult, its lost too much impact as a catch all solution.
pearl stratus
The problem with Riptire is there's no way to balance for idiots and pros.
shy wind
and people compare it with tracers bomb for some reason
pearl stratus
Because if you balance it around idiots, pros can disable it.
If you balance it around pros, idiots think its too good.
shy wind
the difference is you can kill riptire, you can only d.va matrix or lucky lucio ult a tracer bomb
solid spear
I mean even in pro scene the ult was clearly aids
so it wasnt really balanced in either
pearl stratus
It really wasn't, minus a few rare exceptions it barely got more than a 2K in the last.. four weeks?
People see Agilities 3K on Anubis and remember that.
They don't remember two maps later where Surefour killed 5/5 of his Riptires.
And none of them did anything.
solid spear
fast charging ult didnt consistently kill half the team my bad stand corrected
balanced
balmy wolf
To get full value out of riptire you need good mobility
balmy wolf
If you think about it, Genji ults kill more people than riptire. Are you saying blade should be nerfed?
shy wind
Well
technically from rewatching the clip, trans was out of los
so it didn't heal it seemed
balmy wolf
^
pearl stratus
He was also damage boosted 😛
Slash+Dash with a mercy boost kills anyone 200 HP or lower.
155 on the slash, 70 on the dash, roughly.
shy wind
i'm personally more scared of a nano blade than any riptire
balmy wolf
Yeah but if you watch the latest watchpoint, even the casters agree that trans was not in los
pearl stratus
Thankfully we have AKM to drag the charge time for blades down.
I'm saying even if it was, they'd still be dead.
solid spear
yes
shy wind
yep
pearl stratus
You don't need to Valk it, typically. But yes if you need to keep your Mercy safe.
pearl stratus
I mean Mercy is better anyway if you're friends with any not-stupid mid/long range hit scan.
solid spear
Mercy is better...
shy wind
Doesn't matter which meta
pearl stratus
I'm more saying just get a widow.
shy wind
pharmercy will always tilt people
balmy wolf
I like playing Ana when I’m on my plat account, people don’t know how to deal with her
pearl stratus
My favorite was finding the COW post about how infrasight needed to be buffed.
Because its bad.
solid spear
not playing Mercy to have fun
solid spear
and reading either ow reddit is uh 
shy wind
Reading ow reddits are legit ugh.
balmy wolf
Of all characters in overwatch I hate Mercy the most
solid spear
least favorite is definitely Sym
balmy wolf
Just the resentment of an Ana main
pearl stratus
I mean, Ana is still good. That's the biggest issue with her.
solid spear
Ana isnt good
pearl stratus
Because you realistically don't need to change much for her. It's a meta death more than a skills death.
solid spear
shes the worst support in the game
balmy wolf
She is countered way too hard
shy wind
brigette? How does brigette heal as much as ana?
solid spear
Moira
shy wind
Eh, that's debatable
pearl stratus
That's also very SR dependent, as is most arguments.
vagrant niche
i had a match yesterday on quick play, it really dragged on and it was more like a competitive match than a qp match
and i healed 11k with Brigitta
excluding the armor
pearl stratus
Blizzard needs to find where they want to balance from and stick with it.
pearl stratus
Balance around OWL, or balance around Ladder.
silk linden
Is it me or does Brigitte's heal not go through if the target breaks los after you hit E on them
pearl stratus
I mean more that Moira is the second lowest picked too.
vagrant niche
it was qp but it was more like a competitive
silk linden
Maybe it's just my bad latency
pearl stratus
So you're comparing garbage to shit.
vagrant niche
it really dragged on
solid spear
shes not the best in it
vagrant niche
I think some people are understanding how to fight her
i have seen it the past few days
shy wind
burst healing? Anti healing? along with a cc that can take someone out of a fight and a ultimate that can power up an ally?
pearl stratus
I mean its not hard to fight Brig.
It's super easy. People just overthink it and panic.
vagrant niche
Rat utterly destroys her so bad on a 1v1 encounter that she doesn't take you by surprise
same can be said with pharah
rest you have to know how to play vs her
pearl stratus
Or have any form of coordination to burst her shield.
shy wind
Who knows maybe brigette will force people to.. Switch DUN DUN DUNNNN
solid spear
Pharah is very good against her but you cant play Pharah on every map
pearl stratus
Which denies half her kit.
pearl stratus
Full charged shot and storm arrow breaks Brigittes shield in under a second.
It's hilarious.
shrewd valley
@silk linden yeah if LoS is broken too heavily the heal won't register, won't go on CD tho
silk linden
I'm not sure I agree with it
pearl stratus
It's a projectile.
silk linden
Doesn't happen with like Zen orbs and nanoboost right
pearl stratus
It can happen with Nano.
vagrant niche
otherwise he's dead
pearl stratus
Not with orb that I've seen.
shrewd valley
Does orb have a travel time tho?
pearl stratus
Nah.
solid spear
orb also doesnt come off until 3 seconds of being out of los
vagrant niche
I had this doomfist rage at me when he literally could had won the duel, blaming Brigitta for being op etc
solid spear
anyway
shy wind
he's a skill intensive hero that needs to be shown a bit more kek
silk linden
Used to be slower
shrewd valley
probably why it doesn't happen as often
pearl stratus
Its the only place you can play him without getting banned if you do badly.
Since Blizzard has set a hilarious precedence where playing an off-pick badly is bannable. Play it well and you're fine though.
shy wind
Like I think some people just think of tracer and genji as the skill limit and forget about characters like doomfist
lmao
pearl stratus
I mean everything has a high skill cap, its more a matter of how hard the effective cap is to reach.
silk linden
You can play an off meta pick badly and not get banned for about half a match I'd say
solid spear
I mean its not Blizz...if you feed on a bad hero you cant be surprised if people get tilted and report you
pearl stratus
Like Soldier, for instance.
shrewd valley
a skilled Doomfist is an absolute demon in a game
silk linden
If you stick with it then you kinda deserve to get shit
pearl stratus
Because you really need to think about positioning etc.
shy wind
Yeah a skilled doomfist can make the enemy look like his playground
cause there's so much he can do
on most maps
pearl stratus
A skilled Fist is also insanely easy to counter though.
It all depends on how accustomed to playing against him you are.
Once I stopped panicking on knock ups I started winning the majority of my fights against fist.
Especially on soldier.
Uppercut -> Helix Rocket to the face, go away.
shrewd valley
lol
vagrant niche
one of the places i strongly think Brigitta is going to be very strong is Lighthouse on Illois with Moira
shy wind
The thing about that is he won't generally randomly knock you up unless the next bullet is ready to kill you
shrewd valley
I agree
pearl stratus
Brigitte will be strong on some maps.
shy wind
or fist
pearl stratus
What triggers me is people thinking she's going to be insane on all the maps.
shrewd valley
Brig is gona be stong in just about any capture map
pearl stratus
And for your disorganized general play, she'll be played on most of them.
solid spear
in ranked...might be
pearl stratus
But she is still amazingly limited in terms of mobility with a lot of effective counters.
Once they nerfed her shield jumps, especially.
shy wind
Another thing is people are actually like brigette will make tracer and genji useless
pearl stratus
Back in the original PTR day when I could use shield jump to get ontop of buildings 😦
solid spear
Genjis going to be hard to play tbh
pearl stratus
She impacts Genji more than Tracer.
solid spear
got nerfed too
pearl stratus
Bugged nerf too.
shy wind
I mean just his hitbox on his deflect
shy wind
which was a bit ridic before
solid spear
the hitbox got nerfed
shy wind
but now he needs a slight increase
solid spear
a lot
pearl stratus
It's also just not working right, currently.
solid spear
like Endo said on PTR
shy wind
Yeah but before he could deflect a widow shot that was standing beside him, lmao
pearl stratus
Literally full deflect, head on and you still have a chance to kill him.
solid spear
its not even guaranteed
pearl stratus
They need to fix it.
solid spear
you protect yourself
pearl stratus
I mean realistically it should have a conal shape.
like )
Because arms exist and can swing out a bit.
solid spear
playing Genji into Brigitte is really trash though for sure
pearl stratus
But I'd settle for it actually deflecting.
shy wind
Yeah but then you could just switch lmao
vagrant niche
She's decent vs Dive ults
i like her for that
shield bash helps a lot
vs Blade, Blosson
shy wind
my only problem is brigette and how the armor stays
vagrant niche
pretty much all dive ults except Primal and Pulse
solid spear
its annoying cuz you win a teamfight off the ult and youre favored to win the next one cuz everyone has a bunch of armor and you can win the next teamfight while building half another ult
shy wind
pretty much
vestal berry
Blossom isn't a dive ult?
vagrant niche
it can be
pearl stratus
It's more situational for me because I also find her ult a bit easy to take advantage of too if you're switched.
Because it clumps the enemy as well.
vagrant niche
don't know how to play against her
pearl stratus
They're already out.
solid spear
and its not that big an issue
pearl stratus
And doing relatively nothing.
pearl stratus
I don't find it hard at all, its just not impactful.
vagrant niche
there's just too much escaping moves nowdays
pearl stratus
And her damage is relatively bad.
solid spear
I mean closing the gap is always going to be a problem with both of those characters
against mobile comps
just by deisgn
pearl stratus
Reaper needed his E reworked more than his wraith.
Mei has a slightly larger niche now, and I find her good on some KoTH maps but you need to have practiced her icicle.
If you can't consistently land icicles, you're useless because you won't charge ult fast enough
solid spear
tbf you can get away with a lot of stuff at the elos most of us are probably in
pearl stratus
Oh yeah, coordination is way more than comp.
All of my comments typically are directed at the pro scene.
Since its where I feel Blizzard should balance around.
You sank 700 million into it.
Why would you balance around silver and gold people.
solid spear
I think the game shouldnt feel ass to pla
vagrant niche
but casuals on reddit don't think so
solid spear
I believe in top down balancing anyway
vagrant niche
my only wish is for people to bee more cooperative and have somehow start caring about learning the game and getting gaming sense
i'm ok if you are bad skillwise
if you are cooperative
and tried your best
pearl stratus
I mean its so hard to fixed ranked. I think the avoid player helps
They just need to expand it.
solid spear
avoid player doesnt mean much too many bad players lul
solid spear
but yeah just try your best
silk linden
The only balancing principle I agree with is, it's better to have useless things than broken things, if you must choose
Balancing is hard
vagrant niche
I still don't understand, how people with so much game time still have bad game sense
I think there's just a lot that are just playing the wrong game mode
solid spear
if a hero was completely broken for like 75% of the playerbase and ruining games and was balanced elsewhere I wouldnt be opposed to it getting nerfed if they inverse was true Id be fine with a hero that was useless until youre good at the game
vagrant niche
Bliz has made so many stuff to cater to the casuals
that want to have fun
etc
whatever they call it
solid spear
I mean biggest example of this
is probably Roadhog stuff from last year
hero had ~4% pickrate in pro scene when it was nerfed
and was mostly nerfed due to complaints of ranked players
vagrant niche
I love this game, is so freaking fun when matches are exiting and my team is coordinating together
and the enemy is good
and it's tight
it's such a good game
i love it
but it's so hard to get games like that
solid spear
Overwatch is pain and sadness 
vagrant niche
dafranLife
again, it still boogles me, people with silver portrait that do not understand how bad trickling in
engaging on 1v4 or 2v6
NO ult economy, just do your sweet ass play so you can get POTG
solid spear
well amount of time played is irrelevant
vagrant niche
you would think, more time more experience
about the game in general
but there's a lot of people that just don't want to learn the game like pros
heck
I have always issues with people still thinking that the front of the spawn on Gilbraltar is a choke
wtf
shrewd valley
lol
vagrant niche
19/20 matches, i lose that point ASAP
they stay on the high ground, don't kill anything
solid spear
I remember
shrewd valley
that's annoying
solid spear
when that was an actual point
vagrant niche
they pass through the tunnel
solid spear
in the game
vagrant niche
jump one at a time
trickling in
getting decimated
like PLEASE common sense
Even if you don't have it, I'm telling you not to do it cause of this reason
and it happens 19/20
shrewd valley
I remember one match, as Moira I was the only one that ran off to defend, died soon after... and on my way back, had to yell in VC to get them to jump down. Half my group didn't even realize that the damn thing was almost at the door -_-
still just hangin up on top
vagrant niche
That new video from Youroverwatch was horrible
he literally said, points don't matter
shrewd valley
Youroverwatch is horrible
vagrant niche
only team fights
vagrant niche
they usually have so good points
the only guy I don't really like is that Frito dude
or whatever his name is
no no
Eddy the chump
my bad
pearl stratus
Speaking of time played I was slumming with some friends in quick play yesterday (since I have some friends down at like 1700 SR), and we got matched with someone who was level 1598.
And only 1650 SR. And it turned out, when I asked, I was right.
The other team was making fun of the guy, and it turns out he was disabled (hence the play time) and had degradation of motor skills (hence the sr with that much play time)
He was pretty chill though, we brought him for a few games.
vagrant niche
that's cool
but like i said previously
skill level is one of the least things i usually care about
everybody has their own reasons and nobody should be held to the same standard
pearl stratus
My only complaint with skill is when people hard stick without it. I can carry a good attitude and willingness to work with the team.
solid spear
I mean most people are bad and thats fine honestly
pearl stratus
I can't carry someone who sucks at Fist and refuses to switch.
pearl stratus
You can carry bad people who do their best to work with you.
You can't carry the fist that leaps in and dies.
solid spear
I mean Im bad too Im not even saying carry them...
but if both teams are bad dont be the bad team with 4 dps tilted from the start
pearl stratus
I more mean like.. I'd take someone who was pants on head retarded who sticks with the team and tries.
Than the trickle in doomfist that just... does nothing.
The latter is the guy I report.
The former is the guy I support.
vagrant niche
bro, if he's telling you what your are doing is not working
and you see the results
and you keep doing it
you are throwing the match
solid spear
I kid
vagrant niche
I have had like 3 support guys go flank by themselves on a 1v6 constantly, nonstop
no heals
on the past 2 weeks
reported them for sure
solid spear
<.<
pearl stratus
I think there's a weird dichotomy of unintentional toxicity, I'm guilty of it now and again.
vagrant niche
respawn, go to 1v6, die, rinse and repeat
pearl stratus
There's been a few games where I stayed Widow a bit too long because I knew I was getting picks.
But my team wasn't good enough to capitalize off my picks.
And it would have been more beneficial to have swapped to a soldier.
pearl stratus
God no, I'm an okay Widow with occasional savant moments.
Then equally as many moments where I'm just like "Watch me miss my next four shots!"
Which always tends to be right where I get PoTG.
solid spear
aiming is hard
pearl stratus
My PoTG's are like: Miss, miss, miss, miss, miss (oh god why is this PoTG), Dink dink dink dink.
vagrant niche
unless is one of those matches
that we really need to counter pharah
and nobody is doing nothing
where the match is lost
pearl stratus
I got good at Widow because none of my the group that I play with can pay hitscan at all.
So Pharah tends to destroy them, and none of them wanted to learn hit scan.
So to spite them, since they're my friends and don't matter as people, I picked Widow.
vagrant niche
I like tracking better nowdays
solid spear
I started playing support more about a year and half ago cuz of Ana and I dont even play her now
My Widow is bronze if I ever play that hero its a meme
pearl stratus
Sounds like my Doomfist.
solid spear
tbh all my heros are bronze
vagrant niche
you that bad?
is it skill or game sense?
i think you can get around if you have good game sense
and manage to make people to work with you
solid spear
Im exaggerating...
I dont think there are really many good players under GM at least
vagrant niche
I don't think i'm particularly that good
but I don't think I currently belong to gold honestly
solid spear
the skill gap is so huge
vagrant niche
given how the majority of golds play
I'm going to try hard next season
when brigitta is out
solid spear
like I'm 3.4k rn and thats closer to gold than GM skillwise
sharp cliff
that's you then
i'm in 3.8k but i play from 3.5-4.1 when i queue with friends and the skill gap isn't that huge
from 3.4-4.0 is the biggest gap in the upper ranks
solid spear
well youre mid-high masters
like I said
big difference
gap only gets bigger the higher you are...same way you cant compare 4k to top 500
sharp cliff
high diamond and mid masters aren't that different mechanically
yeah i agree with the 4k and t500 part
but 4k players can play against t500's just fine
honestly most people who are in low masters are just high diamonds mechanically but just got lucky with matchmaking
solid spear
Im not masters
sharp cliff
he's 3.4
solid spear
and Im just saying Im bad lul
sharp cliff
lol
solid spear
not literally bronze
sharp cliff
if you're literally bronze than you are actually worse than a medium bot