so hes making good money
#esports-discussion
scarlet spear
keen warren
xQc has streaming
scarlet spear
and considering dude lives off diet coke and video games
hes saving up a ton of money probably
keen warren
Most Stream Teams usually have back ups, same with most Ex pros. Alot of Pros funnily enough transition to either Esports Analysis or Journalism
Esports Journalism*
Those with personalities transition to content creators as such but yeah. Tough life, same with NFL and other Physical Sports
Kicking a football really hard doesn't transition well in an economy
Reason why I like the 18 and above rule for OWL, Kids can get into the game but wait til you finish school or atleast a GED before starting this ridiculously competitive sport
unborn portal
Yeah but the idea with pro sports is their career is condensed, but the money they make compensates for that
if these guys have 5 year careers, the amount they're making is kinda peanuts
Streams get old and mechanical skills decline, plus they probably get bored out of their mind
keen warren
Well OW as an esport is still relatively new, I'm sure Player Salaries are gonna rise relative to established Esports
But yeah, OW hasn't reached the Prestige of The International or LCS, so Players are going to have to be satisfied currently with these player salaries
pearl stratus
As people said they range. We don' thave released numbers, we just know the minimum must be 50k/yr.
unborn portal
Right, but if they're saying 150k is mid tier I'm assuming 300k is near top
so, peanuts for a 5 year career span
pearl stratus
People have mentioned as high as 250k+, but without release data its all hyperbole.
scarlet spear
we won't know
pearl stratus
I mean at 18 years old, if you're not a moron, 250k+ a year will last you a VERY long time for five years.
18 year olds don't need anything. They're barely even people yet.
keen warren
^^ Plus the Teams are providing everything free of charge
Fucking hell, Dallas Fuel hired a chef
pearl stratus
Most teams have a chef.
Fuel/Fusion were late to that boat.
Seoul has a chef, a nutritionist, a yoga instructor, personal trainers, and teachers.
keen warren
Yeah I was emphasising the recent post on it. But yeah like the fucking mental spending these orgs
have
scarlet spear
tfw mayhem still has no busdriver 
unborn portal
250k is a ton of money for 18 and you could be set for life if you manage it right
but they're 18
pearl stratus
Basically as it stands right now they're making money that they don't have to spend.
Since everything else in their life is paid for.
It's literally all available to go right into the bank.
Plus most of them stream as well.
unborn portal
but it wont 😄
pearl stratus
So they have secondary income.
unborn portal
for a lot fo them it wont
pearl stratus
I bet a few will.
keen warren
@unborn portal Yeah but remember they're 18 year old Nerds like us, wtf we gonna spend 250k on in one go
New PC?
pearl stratus
But yeah, most won't.
scarlet spear
some will, but you sure know that sinatraa is buying those gucci shirts for 400$
pearl stratus
Like if you told me RHJ and Jake both invested their money.
I wouldn't be surprised.
Libero/Hydration too.
unborn portal
nerds like women too... they're gonna find those barriers come crashing down with some $ to their names
pearl stratus
Bischu probably is crazy smart with his money too.
unborn portal
I bet a lot of them haven't had real relationships.
keen warren
Well, people like that won't be the only ones, They'll join an established history of pro Football, NFL, NHL, Boxing, MMA fighters
you name it
That's just society in general and not just endemic to Esports
pearl stratus
Also it depends on the nerds.
unborn portal
True.
scarlet spear
i mean i love the guy
but you cant say that linkzr isnt an awkward looking nerdy dude
pearl stratus
Look where he's from though.
scarlet spear
even if he has a hot girlfriend
keen warren
Ehh, that's more a now thing, I mean I'm sure the nerd of today is alot more well dressed than the nerds of the last decade
pearl stratus
You gotta quantify based on surroundings.
Also love or hate him (or want to stab him in the face for chewing gum)
But Jake looks like the kind of guy who smashed his way through college before OWL.
keen warren
I mean't nerd in the sense of spending habits I mean a nerd would buy cool Video games, upgrades to his PC. Not flashy cars and bottles of champagne and club nights
In general but yeah specific cases differ
unborn portal
nerdiness is a mindset. I know a guy that could legit be a model, when we go out girls come up to him all the time, but he probably gets 1/10th of the numbers he should
pearl stratus
He'll blow some money on women 😛
Taimou?
He already looks like every bad guy on Criminal Minds.
He probably will too.
scarlet spear
isnt taimou living with his girlfriend?
pearl stratus
Yep 😛
Still doesn't stop him from looking like every god damn serial killer on that show though.
If Taimou was like "I got good at Roadhog by making wind chimes out of rib bones of my victims."
I'd 100% not be surprised.
unborn portal
rofl
pearl stratus
But all said and done, no one in OWL is cringeworthy.
For looks.
Personality, sure.
keen warren
Nah, over time they'll be coached and they'll be exposed to the limelight
It takes getting used to I mean
pearl stratus
Just don't pull a Kephrii.
keen warren
Alot of em prolly gonna start getting fit
pearl stratus
And cheat on your wife with twitch fans.
Then admit to it.
On stream.
Effect already started.
He's not a chubster anymore.
scarlet spear
then make a comeback to 350k viewers
keen warren
Sounds like Dr D as well
pearl stratus
Typically the shittier a human being the more viewers they have.
Because people like drama.
unborn portal
I bet a few of them get bad coke habits
pearl stratus
Someone should just spike his diet coke with ritalin.
unborn portal
im sure most take adderal already
pearl stratus
Probably normal him out something fierce.
pearl stratus
See my previous comment.
It's why we watch reality tv.
Shitty people are really entertaining to most people.
pearl stratus
We have an entire reality show about a family that basically is only famous for being able to take a dick.
We call them the Kardashians.
Logan Paul got banned from a country for making fun of suicide victims and gained viewership for a short while.
We like train wrecks.
unborn portal
Probably just from media. I had no idea who he was until that
(never watched him though cause lol)
keen warren
@unborn portal Not sure bout that but some Esports do take PED use seriously
For a company like Blizz which curates it's Brand Management like a hawk I'm sure there's something in the player contract bout PED's
unborn portal
sure but how hard is it to get a prescription for addys
pearl stratus
OWL probably will.
keen warren
OWL probably does already*
unborn portal
you can't tell a guy with ADD/ADHD they can't take their adderal.
pearl stratus
Considering they have a no-show clause in their contracts for alcohol alone.
unborn portal
what's a no show clause?
keen warren
Of course not, prescriptions still legal and valid
keen warren
Hell, xQc got banned for his twitch behaviour, Blizz not joking around with how they run their players
pearl stratus
People were trolling xQc with it and sending him beer ads etc. He explained it when he opened one.
unborn portal
for under 21 or everyone?
pearl stratus
Everyone.
unborn portal
So if I play for owl I can't go to a bar?
keen warren
You can go to a bar, Just don't hold up a abeer on stream
unborn portal
Ah I see
pearl stratus
Public vs. private, basically.
pearl stratus
Or stream drunk, etc.
unborn portal
I guess I took "can't be seen with alcohol" too literally
pearl stratus
They're treating it the exact same as a real sport.
I'm sure they even have a small list of activities they don't let players do because it puts hands/wrists at risk, etc.
Since it would ruin investment.
unborn portal
"excessive masturbation is strictly prohibited"
keen warren
Especially a significantly huge investment
@unborn portal Only on your contract bruv xD
scarlet spear
gotta protect my good christian eSports league 
unborn portal
don't take that from me, I'm married, where else am I gonna get it from?
keen warren
Nah, American sensibilities and the fact that 50% of Blizz games are Rated T for Teen
Blizz won't stand for the outrage on social media
I mean look what happened at Kotaku during the CSGO Boston Major
holy shit the articles there
pearl stratus
Like if one of them said they had a no skateboarding type (at skateparks/half pipes/etc) in their contract.
I wouldn't be surprised.
Also the fact that they stream their stuff, with little monetary income. So sponsors matter, a lot.
unborn portal
i dunno, I don't really follow esports much, I just randomly popped in here today for some reason.
keen warren
Nah immortals stuff is before that and have been fixed in the past, I dm'd the article but it could be easily searched with Kotaku and Boston Major. (Major news bout immortals soon though )
Any long story short, kotaku wrote an article about what was the best CSGO match of all time that happened recently and the greatest victory of NA in CSGO and just ignored the entire premise of it to write bout how the game is fake war etc etc.
Anyways it's not pertinent to OW esports but in general bad journalism
pearl stratus
I know during last years Boston Major CSGO also came under heavy fire because the games software is just so easy to manipulate.
And they were doing mid-match bans during QUALIFIERS because they couldn't route out allt he cheating.
keen warren
Oh yeah I hard bout that xD lol, surprised OWL hasn't gotten the cheating hackusations yet
pearl stratus
The systems are night and day different, not that OWL can't be hacked.
But CSGO was basically coded 13 years ago by an autist.
Its such a vulnerable system they've never really bothered to fix.
keen warren
oof, Plz, It's stems from CS Source so almost 20 years now
pearl stratus
Same with Rainbow Six Siege, etc.
Though R6S recently updated to try and fix some of it.
unborn portal
That should be plenty of time to plug security leaks 🤔
keen warren
Had the game been still kept with valve but the Source engine is one of the most widely know and used engine in gaming
At this point Source is about as secure as your average windows PC
but just as ubiquitous as well
OW is propiretary, plus no mod tools released
unborn portal
is it open source?
throw up the CSGO source on github and I guarantee those leaks will get fixed
keen warren
Source engine? hell yeah. You can use it for free for non commercial games/mods
And more will find hacks for it
unborn portal
Eh, not sure that it works like that. I do web dev so it's a lot different from game dev but the most secure libraries are the ones with the most eyes on it
there's only so many attack vectors
keen warren
Well as you may have known Valve isn't in the game dev business anymore
plus CS patches are about as rare as good team mates in OW Comp
But yeah, tbh Blizz doing the right thing keeping it inhouse
sacrifices alot of fun stuff we could do out of the main game though
pearl stratus
Way too different a play type.
keen warren
^^
pearl stratus
Fortnite is more counter to PUBG.
CSGO will maintain as long as people are willing to play it, which is all any game can say.
It will probably continue to drop players more due to the prize pools being so low.
keen warren
Prize pools being so low whilst there are too many tournaments rather than the other way round
Forcing each pro team to literally travel to different countries within weeks to keep up with the circuit
pearl stratus
The last one I saw the prize for the top team was like.. 150k
Which is barely more than you get from winning a single stage in OWL, while getting to live in apartments with private chefs and stuff.
keen warren
OWL playoff is 1 Mil for the winner and 400 k for second place. (First Inagural Season)
CSGO World Esport Games ( Not even the higest tier which is the Valve Major) 800k first place
Yeah OWL's got it large
unborn portal
the full prize pool goes to players?
keen warren
Depends on the contract and the Org
most of the big orgs I think just give the entirety to the players now
Assuming the Spitfires sweep the Stages and win palyoffs they stand to win 1.4 mil on OW first ever season
CSGO really is the ugly stepchild of Valve xD Glad OW is getting some money back
whole narwhal
Wasn’t the prize pool for the Boston Eleague 1mil?
whole narwhal
Guess that’s why it’s called a pool.
Anyway, speaking of cheating. Didn’t Taimou use an aimbot like a year ago? It’s old news though.
I never really kept updated on that one
keen warren
This is literally the highest level of Esports for CSGO only happens twice a year, The international for DOTA 2 which happens yearly averages 11-12 mil
whole narwhal
Yeah it’s freakin crazy. CSGO deserves a lot more since the skill is insane.
But skill isn’t necessarily what makes money, it’s marketability/ease of access.
keen warren
Yeah, CSGO is still too much a "Jock" Esport
OW is the best in terms of marketability
Hits every target market perfectly
Gamers/ Non Gamers. Girls/Guys. Kids/Adults
They just gotta find a way to make observing smoother and you got a pretty good Esport
whole narwhal
Starcraft sounds like the Football of esports to me but only because it was one of the first major ones along with Quake (which never caught on for as long)
Also CSGO looks too “boring” to the average gamer now
They see it and think “oh it’s CoD or something”
keen warren
Ehh, if COD Was checkers, CSGO is Chess
whole narwhal
Last I heard CoD tournaments still use console only.
keen warren
Starcraft was the grand dad of modern Esports but in terms of marketability it's not up there
DOTA 2 and League on the other hand might as well be the Football and Basketball of Esports
OW is more like the NHL
whole narwhal
OW is trying too hard to be like basketball/baseball except with little league rulesets
Right down to team naming conventions. It’s too bizarre for me
unborn portal
much easier to follow along with a MOBA
keen warren
talking bout OW as an esport compared to other games
Yeah Blizz went straight for the American modeling of it
silk linden
can't add much, didn't really watch esports before
I watched TF2 but it was a very minor scene
whole narwhal
I went to Rewind II and it was really fun.
Makes me want to attend a CSGO event too
keen warren
Mine was Quake when it was shown on G4 and CS currently
When OWL gets games to the EU I'd go
Same with the London Major for CS coming up
whole narwhal
The only scenes I follow right now are TF2 and CS:GO
I’d try playing TF2, CS:GO, or OW competitively but in terms of ease, OW is obvious
keen warren
TF2 still trying to revive as a scene?
keen warren
That's a game where just get any pro worth his or her salt into OW
TF2 is a dead game meta wise I mean...
whole narwhal
It’s never going to thrive as an esport, but it’ll survive like CS 1.6 I guess
keen warren
I mean no disrespect without TF we wouldn't have OW or any sort of Class based FPS
but still
whole narwhal
TF2 just has the best movement mechanics in any shooter these days and I’d hate to see that go
keen warren
Sometimes you gotta go when you gotta go
whole narwhal
Yeah, whatever
silk linden
the movement mechanics in TF2 are what make it unique but also the biggest barrier of entry
I always played scout anyway
Clockwork ❤
whole narwhal
It’s not that hard to get decent at rocket jumping, but mastering it takes forever and infinite practice
Yeah, it’s why I main Scout now
Probably sub soldier
silk linden
Seagull ❤
silk linden
I saw Pine still playing TF2 on stream and I have no Idea how he manages not to screw up his habits from one game to the other
whole narwhal
Lol whenever I switch from CSGO to TF2 I still think I have to buy my weapons, or think taking out my melee weapon makes me run faster
unborn portal
i mean they're pros
whole narwhal
And when I go from any of those games to OVW I try to crouch-jump to reach ledges slightly out of my reach
unborn portal
we're mortals
silk linden
Pine has to be the best player in OWL who used to play TF2 right?
Idk about the other koreans
I only know some EU and NA players
whole narwhal
Arent there a lot of former TF2 players in OWL
keen warren
Tons actually
whole narwhal
Ster is a bitter one
keen warren
I got a list here
Clockwork, Muma, and Boink on the Houston Outlaws
Seagull on Dallas fuel
Numlocked on LA Valiant
ShaDowBurn on Philadelphia Fusion
Zebbosai and TviQ on Florida Mayhem
Pine on New York Excelsior
silk linden
many of them weren't as known though
Like, I already knew who numlocked and zebbosai were
I didn't know about pine or taimou
not until they started playing OW
but yeah, it's either TF2 or Quake for former games
and then you have Danteh
actually what were all the koreans playing before?
whole narwhal
Probably Starcraft or something
keen warren
Got a choice between League, Starcraft or Dota
silk linden
it's neat that they all picked up the machanics so fast
whole narwhal
Now I sound like I’m being racist, but Ovw is a Blizzard game too
It’s really strange because FPS aren’t popular in Korea
Do a lot of Japanese people play comp OVW? FPSs are unpopular there too.
silk linden
pc games in general
keen warren
Probably cuz most Comp FPS's were tailored for the American Market
I mean Halo and COD, MLG in general were mostly for Xbox users which is America. CS was the weird one which centred around Europe
While Asia got most of the RTS's
silk linden
the koreans are interested in depth of strategy, for them stuff like CSGO is just a headclicker simulator
keen warren
Kinda fitting to be fair
whole narwhal
Japanese people tend to prefer console games, so they’re mostly FGC
silk linden
but OW interested them so much they just picked up the skills super fast just so that they could enjoy the strategic side
keen warren
Yeah, I heard some analysts talk that if ever Korea got into the CSGO craze they would instantly be at a different level than the Europeans or the Americans
but for some reason it didn't click
whole narwhal
Is it “natural talent”? Why are Koreans reputed as being so good at competitive games? I’ve always wondered that.
silk linden
they just dump hours into it
whole narwhal
It’s probably a regional thing though. You don’t see Korean-Americans dominating games. Just Korean Koreans.
keen warren
@whole narwhal You'll be going into the realm of sociology and difference betwene Asian Culture vs the west etc etc
silk linden
it's obviously a cultural thing
keen warren
Yeah kinda is
silk linden
people in korea just like to dump hours into videogames, honing the skills
deft valley
it doesn't matter if they're strategy or shooter
keen warren
Long story short, Asian Cultures emphasise dedication to the job and to the team above the self compared to western cultures. Hence they do well in Team games like DOTA 2
Boh, That's what I got from general research I did while ago, mostly towards working as a team and less on Dota 2
whole narwhal
Well yeah, but Starcraft is a 1v1 game
deft valley
And CSGO is a team one
keen warren
Well dedication to the game then on that hand
@deft valley Lots of Teamwork as well I agree but star power is pretty prevalent in the game as well
keen warren
Hence Star Players like S1mple or Niko just carrying teams like Navi or Mouseports(back then)
whole narwhal
CSGO does have a lot of strategy, but I don’t know how much compared to MOBAS
MOBAS have more “obvious” things to look out for like team lineup and stuff
deft valley
And it's because Blizzard deliberately and historicaly pushes for Korean internet cafes and scene
keen warren
Yeah but the same can be said for DOTA 2 as well
and League of Legens
Legends
So that means Valve and Riot are pushing in with the Lan Cafes
But never any FPS's, no COD, no CSGO
keen warren
Okay but League then
So Riot and Blizzard, I guess Valve was late on the trip to korea
still saying that Korea has a higher amount of RTS players than they do FPS. Could be dev influence could be culture
whole narwhal
Valve probably focuses on NA and europe
well
they don’t focus on anything
the players just happen
and they roll with that
keen warren
Well the scene evolves naturally where the game gets picked up, don't think devs can account for anything that major
limber pine
Sombra meta stage 3
left spoke
hopefully @limber pine
left spoke
i think her passive activating after any damage being done is really gonna be would makes op
left spoke
I honestly was fine with fifty
as it game you an idea of how low an enemy was
but yes any wall hack ability in overwatch is super annoying (hanzo sonic, zen discord, etc.)
zen feels pretty balanced to me seeing as he has no mobility but maybe now that he sees the health of his discord target he should only be able to see who he has discord on when he has direct los
whole narwhal
It doesnt wallhack until enemy health is below 50%
between 50%-99% (inclusive), you will see enemy healthbars when the enemy is not behind awall
silk linden
^
it's not that big a buff
also idk how she's gonna be in stage 3. but at least she won't be an EMP bot?
magic zinc
What if
silk linden
or she might still be, but at least it won't be for free
idle beacon
i've heard alot of pro's from the scene don't like the new sombra changes. is this true?
silk linden
well they can't get emp every fight now
silk linden
with the current sombra, who can get ult from health packs, they can charge emp super fast
like, every fight
just watch london vs houston on volskaya
silk linden
now she's not gonna get emp for free as much
silk linden
idle beacon
ye i saw that
but there wasn't anything about emp changes
except that small things won't interrupt it
silk linden
she doesn't get ult from healht packs anymore
which was what would let her charge her ult so fast
idle beacon
ah just read it
so she is a bit stronger on the one side but useles for chargin her ult as semi-heal on the other side
solid spear
silk linden
have any pros commented on her yet
magic zinc
5 bucks for "xQc's reaction on Sombra" being just yelling and another 5 for him slamming his desk as he gets hacked running from her and dies
silk linden
well yeah that's what gets viewes
magic zinc
Yeah if it works can you really blame the guy
I wonder how Sombra is going be in OWL now
She's probably not good enough in dive to replace tracer
Second DPS? ehhhh
magic zinc
I think so too :(
pearl stratus
You could still manage her the way Seoul played her though.
Running the bulk comp.
With two support + Sombra + Fleta.
But the lack of EMP would hurt overall team fight, they'd have to maintain their laser focus on hacked targets.
magic zinc
EMP kinda got buffed so if you do run a Sombra it can very well be a won teamfight
silk linden
her effective range is in between soldier and tracer's
pearl stratus
It got a little buffed, but a lot more nerfed
silk linden
maybe they'll just use her to shoot stuff
pearl stratus
Her damage is still unpredictable.
magic zinc
Her damage is pretty consistent actually
pearl stratus
That's the problem with it.
10% reduction isn't enough to shore up the difference between the EMP cooldown though, will maintain my stand on it.
If you factor in potential dps that EMP was its kind of obscene.
magic zinc
That's true, but that doesn't mean her damage is inconsistent
pearl stratus
Compared to Soldier and Tracer? I'd say its inconsistant.
magic zinc
Tracer's spread is worse lol
pearl stratus
But it was a direct comparison to the two best hitscan in the game, realistically.
Also she's not between Tracer for effective range. If I'm not mistaken because of some weirdness her max effective range is 25, while Tracer is somehow 30.
Not that it really matters at those ranged.
*ranges.
Just funny.
silk linden
iddqd is doing vod reviews again
pearl stratus
Jake does em too apparently.
He reviews his own teams games, its interesting.
Super boring though.
Good information, just boring. And the smug ass needs to stop chewing gum.
magic zinc
Ohhh Gambler won't be playing until Stage 3
left spoke
i'm with u on the gum chewing @pearl stratus
and feels bad about gambler
i am def looking forward to seeing him playu
silk linden
I didn't say nothing about the gum chewing
vestal mortar
¯_(ツ)_/¯
indigo barn
There was this real salty dude from the YourOverwatch discord server who hates, or strongly dislikes the outlaws
He says "Boston is totally gonna 4-0 Houston today. Just wait and see."
silk linden
one thing is hating, another is not being objective
I'm not fond of Spitfire but they're a hell of a team
indigo barn
then houston beats london, again, and he says "oh london wasn't on their A-game that day"
yeah that could be the case.... or you just got fricken outplayed boi
silk linden
I mean, I'll take it as a sign that the OWL has gotten so popular, it's already become like sports, with irrational supporters
keen warren
Gonna wait for the +player -slightly bad player the minute their fave team loses
tight vault
florida mayhem is the best OWL team
keen warren
Understandable have a nice day
tight vault
la gladiators for OWL playoffs
keen warren
Tbh I hope they do, they got potential,
tight vault
so 6 teams make the playoffs?
silk linden
you can improve as much as you want, but there's still only 6 playoff spots
tight vault
those 6 teams are the top 3 teams from each division
silk linden
it's gonna be London, NY and Houston 100%, very likely Seoul, and then 2 out of Philly, Boston, Valiant and Dallas
tight vault
am i right?
silk linden
@tight vault top 2 of each division, then the other top 4 in general
silk linden
the OWL app breaks it down nicely
keen warren
Damn philly,Boston ,valiant and Dallas and only 2 make it out?
tight vault
so currently it would be, New York, Houston,Seoul,Lodon,LA valiant,Philly
keen warren
Seems like Sophie’s choice
silk linden
it's unlikely it's gonna be a factor though, it would only matter if literally the top 6 teams were all from the same division
otherwise, it's basically the top 6 teams in the league that make playoffs
tight vault
so currently 4 ATL division teams and 2 PAC division teams
silk linden
houston, NY and London are all atlantic right?
tight vault
yeah
silk linden
I can never remember on which division the texas teams are
tight vault
so is philly
silk linden
I guess houston is near the gulf
so would make sense to put houston on the east and dallas on the west
tight vault
shanghai with that solid 7 map wins in total
silk linden
yeah the atlantic division is much more stacked
silk linden
while the pacific has the bad shit
shangai, sanfran, la glad, all in the same division
the only pushovers in the atlantic are mayhem
tight vault
poor mayhem
silk linden
Imagine if mayhem somehow get 6th place, but it turns out the top 5 positions are all atlantic so they miss out
(Seoul are not gonna fail that hard, but still)
indigo barn
The teams that haven’t been 4-0’ed are the best teams
silk linden
there aren't 6 of them though are there
wet oyster
there aren't 6
tight vault
nope
silk linden
no
tight vault
nope
indigo barn
Seoul has been 4-0’ed
wet oyster
by who?
indigo barn
London
silk linden
yeah they have haven't they
wet oyster
oh
tight vault
lodon
indigo barn
That’s when they decided to sub jehong out for tobi
wet oyster
no for gido
indigo barn
In an effort to “surprise attack” them
wet oyster
but yeah
wet oyster
"we took out our best player for someone that never plays support. Surprise!"\
"and we kept him in through the whole game even after they obviously knew about it"
indigo barn
I don’t see how that would’ve work anyway
London isn’t known to switch things up on the fly
They skip to their gameplan
Stick
tight vault
philly is the best OWL team
wet oyster
i really wish that were true
i like philly a loot as a philadelphian
but they're not as good as nyxl or spitfire
tight vault
they make the playoffs
silk linden
they are one of the teams in the best form right now
wet oyster
i think they could definetely make the playoffs
silk linden
they might make playoffs
wet oyster
especially if dallas fuel keeps sucking
tight vault
Shanghai to win the entire OWL
indigo barn
Philly will CRUSH nyxl AGAIN
indigo barn
ok maybe crush is a strong word
indigo barn
They’ll beat them when money is on the line
tight vault
if shanghai beats new york and london does that make them the best OWL team
silk linden
clearly
indigo barn
They ARE the best team
wet oyster
trueth
indigo barn
After FLORIDA mayhem
wet oyster
*there the only ones
indigo barn
But bro London is so good they have to give their best players out to other teams to level out the playing field
wet oyster
hmm
tight vault
we need a canadian team
wet oyster
why is everything you write in italics
tight vault
not everything i write is in italics
indigo barn
Team Canada is in valiant, fuel, shock, and I forget the rest
wet oyster
prove it
indigo barn
Oh and la glad
tight vault
xQc is the best player in the OWL
wet oyster
MG is the best player actually
indigo barn
No it’s freefeel
Or fiveking I can’t decide
I feel Dallas fuel really gonna pop off now that xqc not banned and akm sending seagull go back to streaming
silk linden
depends on xQc not being a retard and on their whole morale problem being over with, but sure
like, they obviously have the individual talent, they just needed good coordination
tight vault
san fransico should be doing better 😛
indigo barn
shanghai will get their first win this season and the stadium'll go wild
indigo barn
no wtf shock is too good
wet oyster
in a couple days
indigo barn
i'm a houston fan and i'm scared for them they going up against philly and philly be looking sexy
silk linden
shangai will get their first win with geguri and there will be articles written about it
indigo barn
rip if they don't win a single game all season
gaunt acorn
tight vault
shock= good
supple prism
they have gotten close
indigo barn
this saturday's got some SEXY games
wet oyster
what are they?
indigo barn
Fusion vs Spitfire
wet oyster
excirte
tight vault
shanghai vs san fransico
indigo barn
Outlaws vs Excelsior
and heck yeah the final match of the week
Shanghai vs San Fran
wet oyster
ooh thats a sexy lineup
indigo barn
last game gonna be a gangbanger
wet oyster
SHD can get their first win there
supple prism
think boston will get one win this week
tight vault
against florida
wet oyster
shd doesnt play florida until stage 4
supple prism
stage 3 week 3
tight vault
whats all star weekend again
supple prism
stage 2 is the only time where they dont seem to match up
indigo barn
arcade games non stop
Dallas vs Seoul tmr
and at the start of stage 1 it went Dallas 1-2 Seoul
rapid tiger
The first part of a regular piece on Fuel I'll be writing for each week of Stage 2, for those interested. Let me know what you think, looking for feedback: https://medium.com/@hjbaker96/refuelling-part-1-filling-up-the-tanks-382dad26b144
civic marsh
fading plover
I’m interested in competitive but I play console so I probably can’t
torpid charm
same
balmy wolf
magic zinc
Damn FU just kinda rolled Envision
Gentleman agreement to not use new Sombra, kinda a shame cus I wanted to see her in action already but it makes sense lol
deft valley
is sombra legit run with 2 other dps / 2 heals / 1 tank?
red anvil
Actually teams have struggled with running even 1 tank with Sombra, from those i've talked with in the pro community, teams have even played quad dps + 2 healers with new sombra
deft valley
nice
slim summit
I don't understand it
Why are they not running tanks when Sombra is more or less the same against tanks
10% spread reduction gives her at best a few extra meters for such huge targets
Is the extended translocate time that much more valuable?
magic zinc
Hack reduce times makes it harder to react to it and a hacked tank is a dead tank
That can be said for most heroes, but Winston/Rein/D.va legit just melt
slim summit
Hack was already very difficult to react to
There's a question of thresholds, I think
slim summit
In a non-LAN environment, you get 20-40 for ping, let's say even 50 to be more generous ... then you have a player with great reaction time would take 150 ms react, then double the ping for your reaction and you get 250 ms -> so that gives you 400ms to find and damage Sombra / get out of range where you used to have 550ms, so that's really like a 27% reduction
Which I know using napkin math restricted only to LAN for this is not a great metric
But I guess my mind is changed
magic zinc
I think its also that 'find and damage Sombra' leaves you open to everyone else and sets you up to get hit by a dive
slim summit
In my experience playing Sombra in diamond people almost never blocked the hack unless I was right in front of them anyway
I'll have to watch some more of the Sombra play in stage 2 to see how the pros do
slim summit
Even better
I'm still inclined to err on the side of skepticism that the whole meta will be played around her
red anvil
The old sombra was best played with Esca, he played her pretty much on almost every map
Shame he aint in OW anymore 
magic zinc
There's a lot of knee-jerk reactions tbh, we'll see in a month or so on how she really is
I miss Esca :(
slim summit
I just think Sombra in particular has a long history of being perceived as very OP when her skills are described in text and that never actually materializing
slim summit
I don't mind if she becomes op cus I'll just play her like I've wanted to for ages
scarlet spear
mei buffs aswell and no esca 
slim summit
Part of the dynamic I think is that many DPS heroes are less effective when hacked but tanks are generally useless when hacked
Like, hacking McCree is less valuable than D.Va or Rein
Or hacking Soldier
Roadhog keeps his primary & alt fire and if you play him more like old Roadhog he won't feed to much ult
slim summit
Ugh. Don't even remind me. I'm so used of just spamming blink whenever I see the hack start and then rubber banding right back 😦
deft valley
i thought Moira was supposed to be the bullshit hero?
shy wind
cause hack the pharah and they're both taken from the sky
I mean Moira is still annoying atm, but she just needs a few tweaks, we won't know the full power of sombra until she comes into owl or a few weeks of testing
Mostly just having her volumes and sounds adjusted.
onyx shore
just wait for a few weeks and see the meta at high masters/gm/top500 games
or maybe tomorrow when the new season starts
shy wind
I mean the thing is
it's easily to tell lucio will be dead
he was already in a pretty bad place.
for mercy it just removes some cheekiness.
shy wind
Not really tbh.
shy wind
I can see junkrat + sombra becoming a good quad tank counter
onyx shore
well,for OWL,blizzard have at least a month to see sombra on new meta before she come into stage 3
shy wind
doomfist buffs are nice but it still works unless you main him you prob won't touch him lul
uncut moon
doomfist buff is good but still hard countered by soldier and tracer
like a good tracer will never die to a good doomfist
in an even match
shy wind
I mean the difference is they kept nerfing and changing her
but nothing worked
so they just gave the hammer
onyx shore
mercy? simple,remove the rework
shy wind
You know blizzard is stubborn
onyx shore
mercy wasnt meta anyway pre rework
shy wind
they don't wanna admit it was a mistake
onyx shore
she's on pharah duty at most
uncut moon
they should give her 1 insta res in valkyrie
2 res was bs
but slow res in valk
is also bs
too much of a hammer
onyx shore
seriously,valk mercy is even more "OP" than hide-and-rez mercy
uncut moon
i mean in owl
onyx shore
not even close
uncut moon
the pharah is always too high in the sky
no way a sombra can get a hack off
the pharah never touches the ground at the pro level
shy wind
yeah but that won't stop a cheeky trans into emp
shy wind
I mean she does more damage so it's still pretty eh
uncut moon
at the pro level sombra is gonna be more of a hard counter to multi-tank setups
like tripple and quad tank
stop roadhogs heal, stop zarya bubble, stop reins shield
shy wind
I can see her being a genji replacement for certain maps
uncut moon
stop defense matrix
shy wind
for dive
onyx shore
and they now manage to make sombra hack even more inconsistent
shy wind
how?
onyx shore
tactical visor? not disabled when hack
uncut moon
dragonblade and visor still work during hack
onyx shore
whole hog? disabled
shy wind
well it's based on how the ultimates work
shy wind
there's 3 catagories of ultimates
onyx shore
both of those heroes are shooting the same shits
shy wind
tactical visor is a transformation ultimate while something like mcree or reaper is a channel ult
uncut moon
channelled ults can be interrupted, but moira and hog are not channelled
they can still get
interrupted
shy wind
they are channel
uncut moon
how is whole hog a channel
uncut moon
It's better to just describe them as
- Can not be interrupted
for the ones that are not effected by stuns/emp
like in an MMORPG when a skill says * Ignores CC effects o
or something like that
uncut moon
ill give it a watch
deft valley
it doesn't ignore cc effects
uncut moon
well
shy wind
It's a relatively old vid but still holds purpose
deft valley
it just continues after CC wears off
deft valley
while channeled attacks don't
deft valley
can you stop
typing like this
it's really annoying
deft valley
is rez "instant action" in the vid
if so are there any of those left after Mercy rework
emp counts I guess
deft valley
eeeeehh not really
its point is listing what can be interrupted
but Zen's and DF's can't be
while some from the right column will if you catch the cast time
deft valley
what's the point of classifying if you have to list them all and explain
shy wind
and it does point out that while zenyatta and doomfist are channeled
they make you immune during the channel
compared to the others
The main difference of channeled vs transformation
is that one can keep using normal abilities.
during the ultimate timer
or enchanced / changed forms
civic marsh
people still don't know the difference between channel ults and transforms in 2018?
silk linden
Geguri missing Stage 2 means we won't see her in Kings Row...
Man I hope the meta change makes the stage 1 maps more interesting, it's gonna be so depressing to go back to some of those
I wonder if new Sombra can counter the pirate ship 
actually, old EMP bot Sombra would have countered it even better
delicate mural
silk linden
it could be mistaken as one from someone not familiar with the concept
of course once you break it down it's easier to understand
shy wind
I mean
not really
it's quite simple
channeled abilities prevent you from using abilities.
while changing your characters attack pattern temporarily
while transformation enchance your character and allows them to use their abilities in new ways along with giving them new traits
silk linden
I understand the concept, I'm not saying it's overly complicated. I'm sure everyone would if you break it down to them. It's just, people might not be familiar with such things, having come from like fps backgrounds, and they might be confused at first
I mean, why would you have so many people confused by it otherwise
civic marsh
because it hasn't been explained to them
silk linden
sure
as I said, it's something that's more obvious to people more familiar with mobas and the likes
delicate mural
When I think back to channeled abilities in World of Warcraft, they tend to be abilities that cannot be overlapped with other active abilities without interrupting the channeling.
Which is why they're called channeled abilities. You have to actively channel them.
silk linden
yeah, but many people have never played WoW
delicate mural
Otherwise, it's just an ability with a timer.
I mean, that doesn't change what it is.
silk linden
it's like when people unfamiliar with projectile/hitscan ask what those mean
once you explain it it's rather simple, but if they haven't played much fps it's not so obvious to them
delicate mural
So then, when you say Soldier's ult could, "be a channel," I guess I don't know where you're coming from. It's not made clear there that you mean that is a misconception.
Just that it can be considered one.
silk linden
yep
delicate mural
But it can't. It's not channeled.
It merely has a UI feature letting you know it's on a timer.
silk linden
no I mean yeah, it's a misconception that can happen
sure once you look at it it's not a channel
bitter jay
Really good read.. well done dude!
magic zinc
Not allowed here kiddo
torpid charm
it's Wednesday, you know what that means... time to spend my night watching OWL instead of doing schoolwork
torpid charm
sad
I really wanna watch Seoul and Dallas but that's it. my boys in orange play tomorrow so that's what I'm really excited for 
torpid charm
I'll watch Glad vs. Shanghai VODs when they're up and I have free time
magic zinc
I did that for the finals lol, went to sleep at midnight woke up at 4 for NYXl vs London
torpid charm
I think I passed out while watching NY and London, woke up at 5 a.m. fully clothed with my laptop on my stomach to find out that London won
slim summit
I rooted for London for the entire season
Started drinking a bit too early in the day for finals ....... got mad and passed out when London was down 0-2
I ... am a dumb person
undone cliff
Who plays today
tawdry garnet
Dallas have looked very strong so far in Stage 2, but Mercy nerf means that Jehong can play Zen and Ana again which is only going to benefit Seoul greatly. That being said I hope they start with AKM, xQc, Effect, and Custa. I hope it isnt a stomp, got bored of watching stomps
silk linden
so, who's gonna be the best Brigitte in OWL
tawdry garnet
@slim summit Oh man hahaha that must have been gutting
silk linden
imho Mano
magic zinc
I dont see Brigitte being played tbh but thats my knee-jerk reaction
silk linden
tbh same
magic zinc
She's a smaller Reinhardt with a gimmicky armor pack
She cant heal when she's not hitting anyone
silk linden
least heals of all the healers, not a good main tank, not a good off tank
@magic zinc it's not an armor pack, more like a zen orb that can overheal but is on a cooldown
she reminds me of old symmetra
silk linden
I'm not seeing it decay on the streams, maybe it's a bug
magic zinc
I'm playing her its not really a decay
its just that after 5 seconds the armor dissapears
or so
no decay just poof gone
magic zinc
Well at least Moira can heal during downtime 
Idk I'm not seeing it yet I hope I'm wrong
silk linden
she can by whipping
which means she has to be aggressive to heal
kinda like moira but worse
magic zinc
No clue
She can only heal during fights which is the biggest turn-off to me
that and half her kit is just a worse reinhardt
I dont see her anti-dive capabilities tbh ah well
silk linden
she can flashbang, without anything to do after that
magic zinc
I wouldnt be surprised if her healing is less than Soldier
scarlet spear
the heal is pretty minor yeah
looks llike 150 ?
the current iterration seems kinda like a symmetra pick, nothing we would see in pro OW
molten skiff
Is the gameplay vid out for her?
scarlet spear
emongg is streaming PTR with her right now
silk linden
heroes with no range in OW
molten skiff
Whats the cool time on shield bash
zealous thistle
well she's here for the lore
kinda like doomfist
tho i can see Jehong playing her
silk linden
"she's here for the lore" fuck no
that's not a thing
especially since she already existed in the lore
they add heroes to make the gameplay more interesting, to give new options
vestal mortar
Yes, I am really excited! 😄
cold plover
How long is that
From right now
Im not in the US and im too lazy to check
Fine ill check
scarlet spear
5 hrs
scarlet spear
silk linden
brigitte could use a stack of her E ability, kinda like junkrat mines
magic zinc
Its negligable in my play so far
I dont see her as the meta-changing hero Jeff said just yet
If anything I think she'd get countered by dive due to lack of range, sure she can CC 2x but then she dies
We'll have to wait and see till stage 3 (hopefully)
magic zinc
She might be live just in time
silk linden
she doesn't seem that buggy, she just needs power adjustments, so I can see her being ready for stage 3
how long have other heroes been on ptr before launch?
young sonnet
She lags my game a bit
It's very apparent in the no limits mode
but that's just spam
magic zinc
4 Brigitte ults kill my PC
silk linden
so would other ults I assume
magic zinc
No actually
Only 4 Moira ults gets close
but not as bad as this
She's not very optimized but thats fine
young sonnet
Yh she seems to have a lot of effects to her ult
She changes colour i believe
and has a flag that shines?
But it'll never affect normal play i imagine
oh my god i have to train myself to pronounce her name properly
silk linden
ok this is pretty big https://i.redditmedia.com/An8TqCIcE1W50H6HDh1s5vjirV9h1eO2YQ2APklyB_s.jpg?w=1024&s=300a78ffdeb0556edbaf3488e35f5553
no more "Zarya you close to grav?" for no reason
magic zinc
monkaS now people can see me underperform cus I'm not charging my Ult
scarlet spear
young sonnet
Just play moira and charge ult fast. EZ 👏
young sonnet
Probably wanted more game time instead of being benched
He is basically guaranteed to play on dallas
silk linden
yep, exactly. The manager (I think) of Spitfire said "he wanted to be the head of a snake rather than the tail of a dragon"
which I think might be a korean saying that doesn't translate as well and wasn't too mean spirited
limber pine
yeah I just took it as "I want to be playing more"
i wonder though if losing two bench players will hurt LSF at some point
magic zinc
No Internal Scrims rip
Possible they still do it with coaches but it'll hurt the quality
limber pine
or even something like injury. Look what NYXL has had to do without ark
silk linden
rascal wanted to go away, so that's beyond their control I guess. Fissure on the other hand seemed bummed to leave, so probably they had money issues and needed to offload him
indigo barn
Houston will beat nyxl but lose to fusion
silk linden
they still have backups for any position don't they?
XL play mano on support because they straight up only had two supports to begin with
all teams should at least have 1 backup for each role, then the rest is for depth
uncut turtle
wait WHAT
silk linden
sure they won't be perfect substitute, but it's better than having someone change roles completely
silk linden
yep
uncut turtle
y
silk linden
because ark is injured
silk linden
his wrist or something
uncut turtle
i bet if it was still mercy meta he would still play
cuz u dont need aim with mercy
silk linden
like, the worst part to get injured
uncut turtle
;D