so he got kongdoo panthera
#esports-discussion
dusk leaf
i understand seoul dynasty being from south korea, but why new york excelsior is also from south korea
and why do they all look the same 🤔
scarlet spear
because they have a very well developed esports scene
young sonnet
Casual racism
scarlet spear
they really dont 
dusk leaf
joke mode disabled
two people i can actually remember on stage are the girl and a guy walking behind teams
so top 3 teams are seoul, nyxl and spitfire?
young sonnet
At the minute yes. But the lines are gradually being blurred as to who are the top teams now. Currently houston is making big plays as well as fusion. Both of which in my opinion could be top 3 teams
dusk leaf
so sad seeing fuel go so fast, the one team i actually recognize and care about
young sonnet
Fuel are still good. Just need to iron out the problems they have. They definitely have potential.
scarlet spear
they've had some issues so far, but stage 1 isnt even over yet, theres still room for improvement
young sonnet
Definitely.
young sonnet
XQC gonna come back and steal the show. #TmobileMVP
Anyone know if they've announced what maps are in stage 2?
spring lintel
Imagine blizz world for publicity, ill kms.
scarlet spear
that would be a serious
dusk leaf
god damn nyxl plays are more satisfying than ever
mano as rein solo ulting tobi as mercy
clearly shows a balance status of mercy
young sonnet
Season 9?
spring lintel
It’s not gonna be available in season 8?
young sonnet
Oh i thought we were talking about OWL
velvet scarab
nope @spring lintel
spring lintel
Then i guess it should be in stage 3
restive spear
What other heroes do certain players on the team flex? Like I know the tracer player usually also plays pharah. What else?
Mercy is always mercy. Zens flex Moira?
spring lintel
usually genji and phara
tracer and zarya
players have their own prefrences so it's really hard be 100% sure
mccree and widow too
deft valley
"Mercy is always mercy" is not true
Usually the healers are a zen "main" and a lucio one
And when one goes on their main the other goes on Mercy
balmy wolf
Can we talk about the fact mobas are dying ?
deft valley
not here because this is an overwatch esports channel
balmy wolf
What I thought it was esports related convos in general
Hence the name "esports-discussions"
deft valley
on an overwatch server
forest raven
Look at the pins
A channel on an overwatch server doesn't need to be called "overwatch esports discussion"
wide basin
You can probably play around with that topic in general, tho
forest raven
If you don't wanna talk about overwatch you go to a different server or g-d
balmy wolf
Gosh chill
drifting mirage
@restive spear roles in general are
hitscan DPS - tracer (in dive), mccree, widowmaker, soldier
Projectile DPS - Genji, Pharah, doomfist
flex DPS - Both
Off tank - dva, zarya, hog
Main tank - winston, rein, orisa
Flex support - zen, ana, mercy, sombra, soldier
Main support - lucio, mercy
Flex - bunch of heroes from the roles
Obviously, since they're pros, many can play more than the heroes listed, but they usually stick the the roles I put for consistency and due to the meta
balmy wolf
not trying to compare anything here
but i hope
that OWL league
can top 1M viewers
on twitch
just like csgo did
for the finals
fresh arrow
that was the finals yeah
balmy wolf
nice gif
fresh arrow
were there alternative placees to watch the csgo finals though
fresh arrow
you can watch OWL in battle.net as well
balmy wolf
yeah
fresh arrow
but yeah the more sites there are, the more spread out the viewers are
fresh arrow
if csgo is more concentrated on twitch then it's easier to get to those numbers
balmy wolf
because on the english channel they got over 1 million people
fresh arrow
OWL may not necessarily reach those numbers imo
fresh arrow
csgo has been around forever
it's been advertising itself for far longer than OW has even existed
velvet scarab
10
fresh arrow
it's hard to tell
molten skiff
0
thorn panther
drifting mirage
?
grizzled mulch
@serene owl please stop shitposting about your inability to understand the franchise system in OWL again.
restive spear
thank you for the break down @drifting mirage
hidden vault
@drifting mirage nice but why arent flick and track aimers spilt?
Or aren't split into their DPS roles like
tracer genji
Mcree Soldier 76
vestal mortar
Some people can do both
It is a lot to do with individual preferences in the end.
E.g. Taimou plays mostly flick aim hitscan while Effect can play Tracer and McCree
forest raven
The older the game gets the less specialised players become, espcially dps
patent tiger
hidden vault
What is THE Meta?
gaunt acorn
mercy meta
scarlet spear
moth begone 
hidden vault
It all started since the change in Season 7 right?
scarlet spear
mercy rework made her utterly broken, all of the nerfs she's gotten so far didnt change that she's a must pick yet
hidden vault
Bilzzard is panicking with Mercy
gaunt acorn
@hidden vault mercy became viable at the beginning of season 5
but dive dominated for awhile so she didn't define the meta
mercy "meta" has been since september, when she got reworked (although she was a growing problem even before then)
5 months of mercy meta
hidden vault
Honestly, I liked the new re-works. The old Mercy was pretty boring to play with. And have this issue if constantly holding the ult
Anyways what Happened in Season 4 and 5?
gaunt acorn
season 4 ana was still viable
season 5 mercy replaced ana in terms of viability which lead to a big rise in one-trick-pony mercy mains getting boosted SR and plaguing masters+
but she was still in the background because it was full dive-meta
and lucio & zen dominated for the most part
finite cedar
Season 4 was the end of the triple tank right ?
hidden vault
How is Zen Dive?🤔
gaunt acorn
triple tank ended closer to the beginning of season 4
finite cedar
Hog nerf and such.
hidden vault
I know that season 3 was triple tank meta
gaunt acorn
zen & lucio are commonly the two dive supports
finite cedar
Zen has the best healing out of sight basically + the discord orb is extremely powerfull.
hidden vault
And season 4 is generally okay
gaunt acorn
zen himself can't dive but his discord is focused on the dive target
and his harmony orbs go on the divers
scarlet spear
i miss dive 
hidden vault
Yeah which means Zen is a pick when his team is diving
gaunt acorn
lucio often peels for him
scarlet spear
or the old non mercy dive that is
gaunt acorn
well you asked how is zen dive
finite cedar
Dive is still the strat. It's just it's Dive with Mercy now.
gaunt acorn
zen is a staple of the dive meta
hidden vault
Lucio isn't with the team?
finite cedar
Yeah, Lucio got booted out for Mercy.
hidden vault
Yeah I asked
hidden vault
I mean I would want Lucio with the team for speed and heals when then whole team is diving
hidden vault
Why wasn't Mercy viable then?
gaunt acorn
and zen is more essential than lucio is
because prior to her rework mercy couldnt erase dive picks
the biggest point of dive was you dived a high-priority target, eliminating them, and steamrolling the fight
now mercy can just pop valk and rez
and keep the fight stagnated
if you don't have a mercy you lose this
because you dived and your kill was erased
now you're low hp
and in the enemy team
and you get traded
so mercy is needed on both sides
finite cedar
And they also modified guardian angel with the valk change so she has a better mobility.
gaunt acorn
right
you can't really dive mercy very well now
she just flies off into the sunset
scarlet spear
man first stage of mercy rework she was absolutely bonkers
gaunt acorn
half the reason mccree is even picked right now is just to deadeye her during valk lol
scarlet spear
with the GA slingshot stuff
hidden vault
GA?
hidden vault
Oh
scarlet spear
you could keep the momentum from that and keep gliding with spacebar at the same speed
also, runaway is playing in an hour 
hidden vault
Season 1 was the flip meta with the 2 dragons
Season 2 was Zen and Lucio meta
Season 3 was Beyblade/Triple Tank
Season 4 was Transformers
Season 5-8 is Dive meta
How did it change so much?🤦
gaunt acorn
huh beyblade was big in season 2
season 1 was mccree fan-the-hammer & lucio(x2) winston(x2) genji(x2)
season 4 was only transformers for like a week
the rest of the meta was actually pretty dps-centric
often saw triple or quad dps
with ana and lucio
seasons 5-6 was dive
seasons 7-8 was/is MERCY & dive
please let season 9 finally be good
tawny sigil
season 9 will be the purge
where 50% of the active comp players get banned from season 9
scarlet spear
time for a torb&symm meta 
scarlet spear
45 mins till runaway 
rigid pebble
i heard lucid leave from runaway.
scarlet spear
wonder what will happen to runaway during runners absence... really hope they continue to do well and persist
hidden vault
@gaunt acorn what happened in those seasons for these changes to happen?
gaunt acorn
@hidden vault hero changes mostly
dive was the only real meta driven by something other than hero changes
and it was korean innovation
well actually that's disingenuous
i suppose tank meta was somewhat similar
so, a mix of hero changes & innovations to counter the current meta
hidden vault
Seriously? I thought it was there along 😅
Damn the Koreans
I don't quite understand season 1's flip meta though
rigid pebble
ez game gg
drifting mirage
@hidden vault usually a distinction would be made but it's very hard to find a Tracer player that doesn't McCree for example, so there's no point since for the most part it doesn't apply
But some hitscan players don't play all projectile heroes and vice versa, so that's why there's a distinction there
E.g. sayaplayer, recry, arhan, nico, akm, soon, kruise, etc. etc.
hidden vault
Honestly I think Hitscan and Projectile aren't too different
Especially for Heroes like Tracer and Genji
serene owl
@grizzled mulch I'll stop criticising Blizzard's cash grab scheme once you understand that there is literally no reason for Overwatch to have a 20 million dollar buy in for "Franchises" in an eSport- of which undermines the competitive nature of the eSports scene purely because Blizzard got cuckolded back in the old StarCraft: Brood War days and then lost everything they had after beating their StarCraft 2 child to death
sullen berry
Anyone notice on excelsior v Dynasty on oasis they ran a "dual lucio" for the extra speed boost?
gaunt acorn
what do you mean
forest raven
Wdym dual lucio
serene owl
@sullen berry is living in Season 1 my dudes
sullen berry
This was just at the start
Like Tobi picks Moira and Ryu jehong went lucio
Doors opened and immediately after jehong boost expired he goes zen and then Tobi switches to lucio for a fresh speed boost
grizzled mulch
@serene owl you mean like how people said "oh OWL won't have tier 1 level talent" and then 3+ APEX level squad got signed?
good talents will rise from the top and got signed.
sullen berry
Casters wouldn't have picked that up either
https://youtu.be/UYbrATB190Y jehong went mercy mb
First 30 seconds watch carefully the switch off
grizzled mulch
and again, let me post that link for ya. Do try to actually read the answer that you failed to re-answered it properly https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/7tlj6t/sadokist_roasts_overwatch/dtebatm/
serene owl
Not sure how that's relevant to Blizzard treating Overwatch like a reactionary father does after he gets tired of being cuckolded for a decade or two @grizzled mulch
Any eSport has T1 talent. That's just how it works
Also, I just got home from work and haven't even had a chance to read the post
you innane prick.
grizzled mulch
then read that post then
gaunt acorn
yeah they've done that before
gaunt acorn
the spawn-room lucio trick is a thing
grizzled mulch
stop spreading misinformation under the guise of "criticism"
when all of you are doing is basically under a skewered understanding of what is actually happening
serene owl
Stop spreading your ass to Blizzard because you like being the online equivalent of a cheese hat sunday night fat father.
forest raven
There's the dad metaphor again
serene owl
The entire concept of franchising in sports is literally a cash grab scheme, that's all
grizzled mulch
like how NA LCS and EU LCS is also doing it?
are they cashing in after so long and attracts idk, millions from credible investment partners?
serene owl
Wow congratulations for using Riot, a company renowned for living purely off of cash grabs, to showcase an example of a company running a cash grab
red anvil
Let me give you a tip, everything thats big within business is a major cash grab
serene owl
Yeah, and cash grabs that harm the integrity of sports piss me off.
serene owl
Most sports outside of America?
serene owl
Nascar.
red anvil
if there wasent cash involved, there woulden't be advetisements, there wouldent be hype, there wouldent be big productions
if you wane watch amateurs run around in circles, go ahead - no one is stopping you
serene owl
But this is all completely moving the goalposts
forest raven
If a for profit company does something, there's like a 99.98% chance it's because it gives them the biggest opportunity to make the most amount of money
serene owl
The issue is that Blizzard's "franchising" cash grab harms the competitive integrity of the game
It's not about which players are better, it's about which sponsors are richer
grizzled mulch
like how? You haven't even present a case where it is remotely the case.
prevent talents from rising? APEX talents got signed by the droves anyway
red anvil
GCB the rising talent instantly got signed
serene owl
@grizzled mulch If CS:GO ran under Overwatch's scheme then Luminosity Gaming (now SK), the single best Counter Strike team in decades, would have had literally 0% chance of competing
:)
Just an example of course
red anvil
narrow dew
lol
sinful marlin
XD
grizzled mulch
"also not true if you are using it as an analogy to how ow esports works. a new up and comming team would have a very rapid rise up the ladder. all they need to do is play one season of open division, which is as the name suggest open for everyone to sign up, qualify for the contenders trials (a promotion / demotion tournament) and then they would be in the respective overwatch contenders division of their region, the second tier of overwatch competition. that whole process would take 3 months, as opposed to a year plus working through the ranks of open to pro league in esea/esl. in overwatch contenders they would face off against academy teams and "traditional esports teams" to compete for up to 100k per region on a 3 months basis. the best teams and players there will have a high probability to get picked up for overwatch league franchises individually or even as a whole, as the owl is set to expand to more franchises with each season. also, they would not be locked into shitty contracts prohibiting upwards career movement like it is so regular in other esports titles, but more on that later."
sinful marlin
this is funny to watch
grizzled mulch
considering that there are 3 seasons of Contenders per year
with 7 regions
across from EU to SA
red anvil
the ignorance of some people never stop to suprise me
narrow dew
well of course
forest raven
There's the use of the dad language again
grizzled mulch
I mean, GC Busan git gud and then they got brought out by C9, so?
serene owl
You can get into DOTA purely off of being good, you can get into CS:GO purely off of being good
grizzled mulch
what exactly is wrong there?
serene owl
Can't get into OW without $$$
drifting mirage
The only reason that stops rising talent from being signed is their age
sinful marlin
That's not true at all
drifting mirage
Lmao
sinful marlin
Most ow players only get money from streams
grizzled mulch
Oh you mean like how GH just literally sprout out of nowhere and got signed by Team Liquid just because?
sinful marlin
and then the teams that may or may not sign them
grizzled mulch
all of your arguments never make sense because it again, came off as ignorance.
serene owl
Drive me up into that Overwatch League with my 20 million spare for my shitty city name and obnoxious color combo babes
And pass me a cheese hat while I'm at it too
red anvil
Valve attention to the game? 
attention the their player base?
attention to there esport scene?
serene owl
CS:GO is far more stable than Overwatch right now. OW is effectively just a more unstable DOTA scene. All importance on one event
Which is worse for players across the board, but players don't matter to people apparently
narrow dew
how do you explain
imt buying sk
line up
isnt that money throwing
they'er gonna get big
just cuz they have money
grizzled mulch
hell even SK buying the LG squad was a money move.
sinful marlin
Last i checked blizard doesn't focus on one event
serene owl
Actually, LG wanted to sell their squad because LG wanted to be an org that was meant more to bring in more talent rather than just have a prime team
grizzled mulch
@sinful marlin he is insinuating that a 6 months long league + future seasons is just a "one off" event.
somehow.
serene owl
Because it's the only one that matters
sinful marlin
Hmm XD
grizzled mulch
and it goes to show your complete ignorance of the actual fucking scene.
forest raven
Free my boy Davin
serene owl
"You don't care about some 3rd party event without even a 20K prize pool you are obviously ignorant"
Are we gonna start rambling about how amazing worthless TF2 Tournaments are too?
sinful marlin
It's funny because how he said it made it seem like blizzard is only focusing on the ow league
grizzled mulch
Considering the news coming out of some of the Academy teams, I'm going to have a lot of hearty laughs about "but no tier 1 level talents will be able to get into the league"
if they are gud, they will get sign.
period.
serene owl
Side note: WarCraft 3 has events with bigger Prize pools than OW Pit
forest raven
The anime protagonist is back 
serene owl
That's fucking hilarious
grizzled mulch
@forest raven hopefully this time it ended the arc on the better note.
forest raven
He's reflected on himself and has only become stronger 
grizzled mulch
or, you just choose not to out of ignorance.
third party tournaments organizers will pick up the slack once they realized that OWL is here to stay anyway
sinful marlin
Because that's ran off people unknown to blizzard
serene owl
Yeah, probably the same day that Blizzard launches the API so they can feel that StarCraft:Brood War cuckoldry again for old times sake
sinful marlin
Like if i a random ass plat player decided to create an event blizzard wouldn't know about it or care as they have the own things the have to get done
gaunt acorn
can you stop shoehorning the world cuckold into everything
serene owl
@gaunt acorn I would not use the word cuckoldry if not for the fact that is literally what happened with StarCraft and Blizzard
gaunt acorn
no I don't think that's what literally happened
serene owl
Like, it makes sense that Blizzard would try to run a monopoly off of OW when you look at their failures in SC:BW and StarCraft 2
@gaunt acorn it literally is though?
Blizzard tried to hold on to the SC scene but it was all completely held off by 3rd party agencies
Same as a husband trying to keep his wife from fucking the mailman but not being able to do anything about it while also not doing anything about it
sinful marlin
XD
forest raven
Surprised you didn't shoehorn any abusive father imagery in there
grizzled mulch
I have a sneaking suspicions that /pol/ might poisoned him
serene owl
Like, that's literally Blizzard's history with SC:BW
@forest raven I haven't mentioned SC2 yet shhhh
serene owl
@narrow dew Yeah, it's almost like large scale business failures can affect how a company runs in the future.
red anvil
this guy seems like a very angry guy
serene owl
The only thing I'm angry at right now is that people actually defend this bullcrap. It's inorganic and harmful to the players.
narrow dew
bad owl players
red anvil
Harmful to the players to have a minimum sallary, health insurence, high standard of management around you?
narrow dew
are gonna get replaced with good contender players
it doesnt harm talent
and if they expand the league
later on
its just gonna bring in more talent
serene owl
Kaku, any experience with other eSports? Dota? CS?
Maybe even LoL if you want barebones standards?
it harms talent being autonomous. You have to have a rich company/person sponsor you to even have a chance to get in OWL. That's the fucked up part
You can't have a team get in purely due to their own work.
sullen berry
Given the work I do, paid hourly by job, I am shocked anyone sees the "profit" blizzard is making from non-measurable assets to buy in not realistically a way to make sure HR on both ends get paid
grizzled mulch
Again, GC Busan.
narrow dew
good teams wont have problems
finding sponsors
and then they'll get signed by some owl org
onyx shore
rogue?
narrow dew
if they're really good
serene owl
And even when the teams do get signed in, they don't even get signed in by their own fucking names
serene owl
Literally any in CS:GO? DOTA?
sinful marlin
Cod teams were able to back in the big cod esports days
serene owl
^
sinful marlin
Like FaZe And Optic
narrow dew
when they were orgless
onyx shore
i dont see team name as problem
grizzled mulch
@sullen berry im pretty sure they have more data and metrics prove that
sinful marlin
I think they tried to get the owl teams to show where there team was from
serene owl
Names would be far less of a problem if it wasn't just "<insert city we pay royalties to> <random noun from dictionary>"
onyx shore
well,OWL is using american sports franchising name
sinful marlin
Actually most the people in owl get signed to teams from places they don't live
onyx shore
that's also not a problem
serene owl
Well yeah, because American Sports Franchising is the easiest way to milk cash out of idiots from America
fresh arrow
That doesn't make American sports less legitimate
serene owl
C'est la fucking vie on this bitch of an Earth
onyx shore
well,you can use team name like english football teams
fresh arrow
Nor the EPL
onyx shore
but maybe using city name makes people easier to root
fresh arrow
Dunno about that, man
sinful marlin
The only thing i hate about american esports now a says is its korean dominated
days*
onyx shore
that's a problem
serene owl
Yeah, I'm sure that "<insert city name> <insert noun word>" is so much easier to root for than "<catchy unique name>"
serene owl
Hell, I find shortened names like CS:GO's QBF more rootable than Blizzard's Dallas Dickem Kickem
narrow dew
owl isnt an american league
onyx shore
blizzard is from america
narrow dew
its just located there
onyx shore
they are using american model
narrow dew
doesnt matter
serene owl
And lets not even get into how obnoxious it is that none of the teams represent their royalty-paid areas whatsoever
narrow dew
its not an american league
which is why there's no point
in compaining about koreans
in muh american league
serene owl
OWL is an international league pretending to be American to get Americans whales to give them cash
onyx shore
any problem with that?
serene owl
(whales as in the industry term, not an insult)
onyx shore
company exist to makes money
grizzled mulch
Considering how all the OWL viewing parties in each cities had been, yeah.........
serene owl
@junior anchorediaz#5606 the moment Blizzard's primary purpose is to make money is the day Blizzard loses it's primary quality trait as a gaming company
forest raven
The Houston viewing party had nearly 200 more people than the Blizzard Arena can sit at full capacity
serene owl
Though it seems like WoW sort of killed off any good Blizzard used to have in them
onyx shore
i dont get it
so your point is blizzard is losing primary quality trait as gaming company,bcos they pretend to be american league and using american sport naming scheme?
serene owl
Blizzard was made with the sole intent to make good games and not a lot of money
That's why its earlier titles were both extremely iconic and extremely high quality
Once WoW came out the company slowly lost it's original point.
fresh arrow
Are you a shareholder or something
serene owl
Now they're just AAA with Visual Polish™
Nah, I just have two stocks :c
Namely because it's easy cash.
fresh arrow
Tbh why does this matter if you're not a shareholder of the company?
Don't like it? Don't play
¯_(ツ)_/¯
scarlet spear
^
serene owl
I haven't played OW in ~ 2 weeks now so a bit ahead of you there
fresh arrow
Congratulations?
forest raven
You mean the game developer under the biggest game company in both the Americas and EU in terms of revenue and market cap creates AAA games with visual polish?
serene owl
And I care because I originally wanted to work for Blizzard. Though now I've come to doubt whether or not their company actualyl has any remnants of its values left
forest raven
MADNESS
onyx shore
i dont see how using american sport naming scheme = losing quality as game company
sullen berry
@serene owl two words: Activision Blizzard
serene owl
@forest raven they turned from a company that makes games with mechanical polish to ones with visual polish
fresh arrow
@serene owl Blizzard is making good $$$ without you already so I don't think they really care that you don't want to work for them anymore
serene owl
True as fuck
sullen berry
Blizzcon will try its best to remind you they are a gaming company worth caring about with quality gaming, esports give it ongoing relevance
serene owl
Though I just really don't like the other companies. Only one I could bear with is Valve but they are godawful for large scale projects
fresh arrow
Idk what you're trying to achieve with all of this
serene owl
Nothing. Just yelling into a crowd about how shitty for it's players the OWL cash scheme is
Won't change anything of course, just like any discussion here
fresh arrow
Also FYI NASCAR is American and that's a real American thing that no one cares about outside of the States
serene owl
Blah, I haven't watched racing since I lived in Brasil. I knew I screwed up the name
F1, right?
I'm really rusty with my real life sports shenanigans.
fresh arrow
Organisations paying for the privilege of the city team name benefits more people than you think
serene owl
Yeah, none of them being the players
I'm sure that [x major city in America] gets a lot of benefit from Overwatch
fresh arrow
Players are still getting minimum of $50k a year plus employee benefits
onyx shore
i dont get it
fresh arrow
What the fuck are you on about lol
serene owl
@fresh arrow they get that in DOTA and CS:GO too?
onyx shore
why should the orgs give the cities major benefit from OWL ?
grizzled mulch
F1 is not particularly friendly to new teams either since it is dominated by large corporations so......
fresh arrow
Where is the "no benefit" part
serene owl
I never said F1 was friendly, there's a reason why I've stopped watching IRL sports
onyx shore
why should london spitfire give benefit to london? is there such a rule?
fresh arrow
@grizzled mulch F1 is pay to win
scarlet spear
F1 is literally big company names on brand car teams driving circles
serene owl
It runs right. Doesn't mean it doesn't have flaws
fresh arrow
F1 players earn more from their sponsorships than their teams
grizzled mulch
Wont see any SK/LG in F1 thats for certain 
fresh arrow
I don't know what your point is anymore
onyx shore
so?
scarlet spear
fresh arrow
You're complaining about corporations not paying players or something, and then you say F1 is good?
forest raven
So you're saying Dallas Fuel players are getting more money from Jack in the Box than their 5 to 6 figure salaries?
serene owl
My point became irrelevant once the discussion changed from the 20 million buy in with a tongue lick on the side towards all of this
scarlet spear
you know its not a 20 mil down payment? its a 20 mil investment into development and more
serene owl
@fresh arrow it means "with a meaningless gesture"
fresh arrow
Yeah not really
serene owl
Oh yeah it takes a lot to develop those 26 team skins, jerseys using basic RGB changes, and uhhhhh
banners
lotta banners
fresh arrow
Good try though
onyx shore
so,you see the 20m buy ins as problem?
fresh arrow
The 20mil is a commitment from the organisations to the league
serene owl
I see any form of buy in as a problem. It's transferring overhead costs that should be held by the company onto another group purely for the sake of saving money as opposed to actually investing within the scene.
So yeah, I see the buy in as a problem
fresh arrow
But the 20mil IS the investment into the OWL scene
serene owl
inb4 "it goes towards duh sceeeene" as if that's actually what happens
coarse stream
Blizzard cant afford those costs tho
onyx shore
wut
serene owl
Yeah Blizzard can't afford those people they are already paying for on regular payroll
coarse stream
Like blizzard just cant spend 100 million at will.
onyx shore
so what are you suggesting? they should open OWL to everyone?
serene owl
It doesn't cost 100 million to run an event
coarse stream
Of this caliber?
serene owl
Good lord do you think Medicine costs as much as they sell it for too?
onyx shore
or lower the buy ins?
forest raven
It costs 100 million to pay employees, the real estate, the marketing, the upkeep etc.
serene owl
Yeah, open to everyone. You know, what CS:GO and DOTA do with their extremely self reliant scenes
onyx shore
i think you're assuming that each orgs really pays 20m upfront,without negotiating anything
scarlet spear
for one season
onyx shore
i dont think those team owners will just "oh 20m? here take my money"
serene owl
Oh yeah I'm sure there's an argument here and there with a few deals with comcast on the side, sure
narrow dew
you can just look at how many good movies are made with 100 mil
and they have many more than
120
production days
and probably lots more staff
serene owl
^
onyx shore
and you need profit
serene owl
These people probably also think that medicine costs as much as big pharma sells it to them for
onyx shore
if blizzard wont profit from any of this
serene owl
Like, jesus
onyx shore
they wont run the league
fresh arrow
So it's a crime to want to profit?
outer sorrel
friendly reminder to keep it civil
serene owl
Shrek cost only 60 million to make
onyx shore
dont give me"they used to be about high quality games and so and so"
serene owl
High quality GAMEPLAY
outer sorrel
movies aren't the same thing lol you're comparing apples and oranges
narrow dew
no but
serene owl
@outer sorrel it's being used as an example to point out how idiotic it is to assume that it costs as much as these people seem to think it costs
narrow dew
saying u need 100 mil
onyx shore
you can't eat passion
outer sorrel
nobody thinks it costs that much
sullen berry
To be fair, this is as much serious discussion we've had this week too chels
outer sorrel
nobody is like "yes they need literally all that money"
blizz need to make profit
otherwise it's a shitty business model
serene owl
@outer sorrel that's literally what two or three people here are saying though. That it costs that much money to run OWL
outer sorrel
yeah, including profit
serene owl
A profit margin of 500% I guess
outer sorrel
most people will include profit as something you require
onyx shore
and...that's a crime?
sullen berry
You have to agree it's for profit, but I disagree there's merit in not complaining about how much.
onyx shore
profiting 500% ?
serene owl
If anyone wants to give me 20 mil to start a business I will gladly get you a company with good margins
I'm thinking either game design or firearms manufacture.
fresh arrow
Good luck?
grizzled mulch
In Brazil? lol
fresh arrow
You chase your dreams, man
serene owl
Why would I start a business in Brasil? That place is just an unregulated America
God awful place to start a business
fresh arrow
It's not a crime to want to profit while delivering a good product
serene owl
Well, legal business
fresh arrow
Complain about OWL finances all you want, OWL itself is so far pretty successful on the consumer side
serene owl
I think I'll start selling some of that "organic" water rich people are buying. It doesn't matter how bad it is if it's just me trying to make a profit right?
fresh arrow
"It's not a crime to want to profit while delivering a good product"
For all the nitpicking you do, you're not reading very carefully
serene owl
Remind me to say that when I'm slaughtering some natives in the Amazon to run a coffee farm that makes really good coffee
Excuse unethical business practices all you want, I won't subscribe to it.
fresh arrow
Up to you, man
onyx shore
wait
fresh arrow
That kind of argument is the same kind as vegans and "animal liberation" so like, I hope you're a vegan too
hidden vault
Who does bilzzard slaughter when they run OWL.....
onyx shore
is blizzard using unethical business practice? which one?
serene owl
Nah. Veganism is generally worse for the world, far more harmful
fresh arrow
That's not the point
sullen berry
@fresh arrow What is this play in the first 5 seconds of game, a double speed boost from Tobi and Jehong on Lucio? https://youtu.be/UYbrATB190Y
fresh arrow
I'm saying that your nitpicking is comparable
onyx shore
btw
fresh arrow
@sullen berry on mobile rn and can't really YT atm, but I saw it mentioned earlier
sullen berry
Ye
onyx shore
i wonder about seagull spray trap when he faced SFS
fresh arrow
That's 5D chess
onyx shore
that wont get him in trouble,right?
fresh arrow
Nope
scarlet spear
why would it?
fresh arrow
It's genuinely clever but other teams will start copying it
sullen berry
Seagull junkrat has been a great watch, it's been a little while
scarlet spear
not like he exploited a bug or something, but thats well within blizzards rulebook i'd imagine
grizzled mulch
I mean considering how IMT got their CSGO roster took a giant dump to them.....it is certainly nice to have stability
onyx shore
well,i suppose
they gonna start using default spray on every match now
now that they know you can get a little advantage by using sprays
lul
outer sorrel
and it worked?
onyx shore
yeah
rugged cedar
lmao
onyx shore
the genji tried to destroy the trap
outer sorrel
that's hilarious
scarlet spear
@outer sorrel https://i.redditmedia.com/hNUOHdgge3Q-Qt0ybH8RYaNHDzKyYz5CJGs4Tr_jkYE.jpg?w=1024&s=e741848a50dc533393e8ae0e13683c7d
outer sorrel
beautiful
hidden vault
@sullen berry if you look carefully Ark did the speed boost too
fresh arrow
I'm going to miss this when aKm joins
sullen berry
@hidden vault mmmm I thought so
hidden vault
Didn't saw it more like a guess
scarlet spear
wonder what akms going to pick up exactly
scarlet spear
considering he tweeted about hardcore practicing genji a week ago
fresh arrow
My money is on Taimou to off-tank, then Seagull/aKm/Effect for DPS
onyx shore
effect will always play imo
scarlet spear
yeah guessing akm/seagull rotating and effect pretty much locked
red anvil
Effect will never not see play unless he gets benched by the leauge or he is sick
fresh arrow
He's a good noodle, he won't get suspended
red anvil
He's one of the most toxic guys in the league 
fresh arrow
hOW DARE
onyx shore
yeah
he should get suspended bcos he made a custom game room to kill symetras
that's racist to indians
sullen berry
Who keeps saying Mickie is not good at D.Va? He's just being stacked and has yet to face off MG
fresh arrow
Lmao
onyx shore
well,his hog play versus SF shock was so much better than when he play dva this season
fresh arrow
Mickie really needs to step up, I honestly don't want to watch Fusion v Fuel bc it's going to be rough as hell
red anvil
Once a team starts looking bad, everyone looks for escapegoats
sullen berry
I think his dva play is good, I'm trying to hold back from calling it Plat play though
grizzled mulch
Certainly a far cry from Apex S1 tho
onyx shore
that's normal kaku
you need to identify the problem and solve it
they already know that cocco is the tank's weak link
red anvil
I think Micke just have had to change his playstyle so drastically much once he started scrimming with xqc, that it affected his gameplay overall
onyx shore
cocco's winston isn't enough,too bad xqc is suspended
if only they still have hulk,feelsbuttman
sullen berry
The breadth of play I'm seeing these teams get from orisa as an anti dive works better than pirate ship bastions on junkertown
fresh arrow
Quad tank when
red anvil
I just got no believes that AKM and xqc will manage to play together without screaming each other up
scarlet spear
give bastion the front shield back from beta
onyx shore
and give ana's ult the speed boost back
@scarlet spear if that means bastion can't turn backwards,yes
sullen berry
The day bastion gets front shield will probably be when mainstream play is acceptable and flanking is properly done against him
hidden vault
Mickie should probably go back to playing Zarya....
onyx shore
what's the point of being a turret if your gun only effective at short range
red anvil
Mickes Zarya was trash
magic zinc
Guys what were the absolute MUST WATCH games this week? I couldn't watch them but heard they were pretty much all amazing lol
hidden vault
SORRY MICIKE
onyx shore
is zarya even useful in this meta?
hidden vault
Effect plays well
onyx shore
@magic zinc dynasty vs nyxl
magic zinc
Zarya in quad tank is spicey
magic zinc
In usual dive not so much probs
magic zinc
Dragons? Oh heck
onyx shore
fusion vs dragons was nuts at junkertown
fresh arrow
The Junkertown OT is lit
red anvil
Philly vs. NYXL, Boston vs. Spitfire
fresh arrow
Fusion is great to watch, period.
sullen berry
@magic zinc 5 of the plays form last week were impressive, Shanghai dragons VS Philly Fusion was also gob-smackingly intense
fresh arrow
Blessed Carburn 🙏
onyx shore
shadowburn is the kimi raikonen of overwatch league
magic zinc
Yeah I heard this was like the best week so far
onyx shore
yeah
magic zinc
Has to be the one I miss huh </3
magic zinc
Yeah I got that one and NYXL/Seoul lined upfor now
sullen berry
That's where a lot of matches went
magic zinc
Thats pretty great tbh
sullen berry
Especially this week
magic zinc
No more 4-0verwatch
grizzled mulch
pearl stratus
This weeks big games imo ( @magic zinc ) -
Wednesday: Houston vs. San Francisco, LA Valiant vs. Philly
Thursday: London vs. Seoul
Friday: Seoul vs. Houston, LA Glad vs. Boston
Saturday: Boston vs. LA Valiant.
sinful marlin
I'm surprised fuel actually won a game
I was rooting for them and they played like garbage for the first games
pearl stratus
Honest thought on it.
It was the comp, it was an effective comp that doesn't see much play
And people don't really know how to dismantle it well.
They literally played "PROTECT EFFECT"
That's the name of the comp.
It's why their second game using it didn't go so well.
sinful marlin
They actually made it work though sense they won a game
pearl stratus
Yeah but it was kind of one trick.
It's a relatively easily dismantled comp when you're not super surprised by it.
Dive works the way it does because of the pace it sets, that comp doesn't set any sort of base.
It's just a moving protect effect box.
sinful marlin
The thing is the fuel were probably the most hyped team going in but then just didn't work very well as a team
pearl stratus
I was wondering why Seagull played nothing but Junkrat in the comp.
And then I realized its because Seagull was basically just a bodyguard.
grizzled mulch
it is sort of innovation born out of neccessity
pearl stratus
He was there literally just to peel for Effect.
And he did it well, don't get me wrong.
But its like watching Babybay all over again.
But Effect.
sinful marlin
Effect didn't play at his best
pearl stratus
I think he did. But I think he's learning the Fleta woes of days past.
You can only 1v11 so much.
magic zinc
Thanks! @pearl stratus
pearl stratus
And he's certainly carrying the team in that comp.
sinful marlin
Yea they just need to better cordinate the comp then. it loos a little frantic
pearl stratus
Well its also that the counter to the comp is "JUST KILL EFFECT"
There were more than a few Valks that Chips literally resurrected Effect twice.
sinful marlin
Yea
pearl stratus
It's nice to see them doing a bit better than, but I don't want to watch two San Francisco Shock teams.
sinful marlin
The shock are decent do i'm glad the fuel can actually beat a decent team
SO they may win more matched
pearl stratus
I think Sinatraa is a little kid who probably could use a few punches in the mouth, but I want him to be 18 just so Shock isn't just "Babybay and 5 people."
sinful marlin
XD i forgot i was on the shock
pearl stratus
Because Danteh is not consistent or impactful enough to draw any attention away.
sinful marlin
I forgot he was on the shock**
pearl stratus
Yeah, he'll open up their comp a lot more and Danteh will see nearly constant bench time.
sinful marlin
Yea the thing is hes good but he gets tilted fast
pearl stratus
He's not stupid though.
sinful marlin
I know but he gets mad at every death he takes
pearl stratus
Yeah but as long as he doesn't xQc out, he'll be okay.
He just needs to be hit a few times.
pearl stratus
He's more designed for SoloQ than this kind of professional stage.
Until he can get his head out of his ass.
hidden vault
How xqc comapred to Mano Miro and Kuki?
pearl stratus
Bad.
The aggressive Winston style doesn't mesh with how play works now in most situations.
You see it with Fragi a lot too
He plays that really really aggressive style, but doesn't have the back up to manage it.
So he just dies a bunch
sinful marlin
Xqc has always been one of my favorite players tho and he's going to be
pearl stratus
Whereas some combos like Muma + Coolmatt make it work really well because they coordinate so well
hidden vault
Well Crape and Shadowburn are aggressive
pearl stratus
But without that coordination its just a dead monkey.
sinful marlin
Ehh xqc is the only reason i started playing tank so he's still going to be a favorite of mine
No matter how toxic he becomes
pearl stratus
I think Poko realizes that to keep up with some of Fragi' leaps it would be super detrimental.
So he doesn't.
Fragi himself says he's only a mediocre Winston.
hidden vault
So we blame Fargi
pearl stratus
He hasn't played it enough.
He spent tons of time on Rein and knows the tricks for it.
He didn't on Winston.
hidden vault
What does Fragi originally main?
pearl stratus
But Rein is all but useless in this meta/map rotation.
pearl stratus
And Fragi knows so I think his aggressiveness will calm down over time.
But xQc you can tilt into it so easily.
You can see it in the first Seoul vs. Dallas game.
When they sleep dart + d'va ulted him
hidden vault
hmm? last part of eichenwalde at least
sinful marlin
If i got trapped like that i would get mad
hidden vault
well you need to be calm when playing competitive so
it's his own fault
for losing into anger
heck
you die just respawn
pearl stratus
Yeah it was a super smart mental play by Seoul.
Because it turned the rest of the match into a 5v6.
As xQc just became useless.
sinful marlin
He hardly plays anyway
pearl stratus
He probably will be eventually, but we don't know his contract.
So right now he gets to sit on the bench and make money.
pearl stratus
I doubt it, probably by stages/years.
Like a one year contract, etc.
Though after the whole thing with him if I was a team owner my new contracts would have ethic clauses, and streaming clauses in it out the ass.
sinful marlin
The owl for rn only goes till may. so itll end before a years up
pearl stratus
So that if you did something stupid and got suspended for say.. a month.
I could stop you streaming for a month.
sinful marlin
Ok
hidden vault
that probably explains why Dallas wants xQc to be benched longer
analog bane
LF1M for an Overwatch League fantasy draft. If you missed out joining a league earlier in the season but still were interested in playing, shoot me a message.
red anvil
Lf 1 Male? That sounds sexist
torpid charm
I saw mention of Fusion members so know I am here 
sinful marlin
@solid spear honestly them losing xqc gave them the luck to when also nice discord number #6969
WIn
blazing perch
blazing parrot
@solid spear ❤
solid spear
@blazing parrot ❤
mild peak
scarlet spear
hahahahahahahahaha
zerg and they use the kills on kephrii where he said hes cheating
thats a
and the predictions from inven were right
nice team, looking forward to more of the academy teams, c9 jack said that their announcement should be up soon aswell in his AMA
magic zinc
Alarm and WhoRU though
Great pick-ups
Although WhoRu has some behavior issues doesn't he
or had at least
scarlet spear
i think those got resolved after LH sat him out for a while ?
magic zinc
We haven't seen much of him since that have we? So we can't really tell
grizzled mulch
OWL won't have any long term of plan
OWL won't let any good players play in it due to high franchise fee
OWL is a cash grab
right.
pearl stratus
Also notice the location of most of those players.
scarlet spear
oh yeah the dude this morning
pearl stratus
That's a hugely US team.
scarlet spear
will academy teams be based in NA aswell? just wondering if whoru and alarm move to USA
guess so since thats the team for contenders NA
pearl stratus
I wonder if its going to work like psuedo olympics for OW tourneys from now on.
No pro-players allowed.
Gives them huge room to find new talent as seasons go on.
Having triple A teams is smart either way.
Was kind of waiting for this to happen, like Baseball teams.
obsidian jungle
I have a question about Overwatch contender teams, how do they find their players/how do they find about new players?
obsidian jungle
They will probably drop out of school
scarlet spear
roughly
alarm and whoru are still 16 aswell
which is why i wondered if they move to NA
vestal mortar
I can't wait for more team announcements! 
slim summit
any emongg rumors
is dafran unbanned from tournaments yet?
idk who emongg would play for though honestly ... he's pretty generalist. i like his stream though
pearl stratus
Dafran will most likely never play in OWL anyway.
He quit pro e-sports, from what I remember
And said he was going to go work at McDonalds 😛
vestal mortar
I was talking about contenders/academy teams. I am sure there would be room for emongg on any of those. 👀
I haven't heard anything specific about him though!
grizzled mulch
@scarlet spear i have a sneaking suspicion that he is trolling
but Poe's Law is lol
@vestal mortar just wait 
magic zinc
Harb is in Contenders <3
pearl stratus
I mean if this season of OW does well I'm sure we'll see a lot of the franchises start setting up "farm" teams.
magic zinc
If Emongg was on his team too oh boy that'd be great
pearl stratus
Which will be exciting.
vestal mortar
I am bad at being patient U_U
pearl stratus
Setting up farm teams is probably another chunk of money most owners aren't ready to commit just yet, lol
grizzled mulch
......9 out of 12 teams already had farm teams
wdym "they aren't ready to commit just yet"
and @scarlet spear Academy Teams will depends on the region which they want to be base in
vestal mortar
Yeah I was surprised when they announced there would be so many academy teams! I thought there would be less.
grizzled mulch
the only teams that doesn't have Academy teams are LAV, Seoul and Dallas
the rest already got their roster ready
and waiting to announce
scarlet spear
yeah so guess alarm and whoru are moving to NA, probably not that easy if you're still 16
magic zinc
Are the Academy Teams in Contenders or do they have their own small league?
scarlet spear
im waiting for the c9 one, thats gonna be interesting
vestal mortar
In contenders
magic zinc
Runaway please!!
scarlet spear
runaway would be sick but i doubt it
pretty sure c9 is building an actual EU contenders team
magic zinc
Runner is going to the army isnt he?
scarlet spear
yeah
vestal mortar
The Spitfire Academy team is going to be EU players iirc
drifting mirage
I'm memeing
vestal mortar
¯_(ツ)_/¯
I have seen a lot of new uninformed people in here over the past few months so I've been finding it harder to tell if people are memeing. :P
I just try to be helpful if I can!
slim summit
i'm very uninformed so thank you 😃
solid spear
I mean Im pretty sure Kragies team will be the Spitfire academy team if rumors are to be believed 👀
drifting mirage
uninformed person
Knows about EM/Seven
solid spear
Im the most uninformed person I know and I know those teams so hah
scarlet spear
yeah i remember watching kragies stream and he got that c9 mail live on stream
vestal mortar
I am not referring to you in particular, I am referring to people who would read your comment and believe it. 😛
drifting mirage
Oh, yeah, I guess people might have taken it as fact
vestal mortar
Oreo 😭
vestal mortar
I loved watching Those Guys in OW Pit
drifting mirage
OW Pit is neat
Eagle FeelsBadMan tho
But watching Unfixed/Sharyk again is great
cmonBruh
solid spear
@jade cliff if youre looking for people to play with try #lfg-pc-na-ranked or #lfg-pc-eu-ranked '
jade cliff
thanx
young sonnet
I wonder why the main overwatch twitter doesn't announce when games start? 🤔
vestal mortar
Because the OWL Twitter does instead
young sonnet
Was thinking more about followers. Cause main overwatch twitter has like what, 10x more followers. Just seems weird that they wouldn't shout it out. I guess they wanna keep the two seperate for reasons.
vestal mortar
They tweet a play of the week from OWL
young sonnet
Yh thats what got me curious. I saw that and thought why they wouldn't shout them out during games. I dunno.
vestal mortar
I get that it's not a huge amount but they probably don't want to overwhelm followers? Tweeting every game starting every day would overwhelm followers who aren't interested in OWL. They probably want to get casual people interested with the big plays tweets and then get them to follow the OWL twitter for regular updates.
They'll tweet out the playoffs and stuff though for sure!
young sonnet
Yh that would make a lot of sense.
spring lintel
Dude wtf, why is contenders monopolized too
vestal mortar
wat
spring lintel
How many teams are allowed in contenders?
vestal mortar
12
spring lintel
There are already 9 teams from OWL
vestal mortar
No
spring lintel
Thanks, ill check it out.
spring lintel
Oh yeah there are different regions my bad
Will owl academies be invited every single season?
Even if they are underperforming
DUDE zerG is in fusion university wtf
He get popular from kephri
vestal mortar
We have no idea what it'll be like beyond next season
Esp as OWL expands, maybe contenders will expand too. They'll always want to have room for people to work their way up from Trials
grizzled mulch
there will be relegation and promotion
and Academy teams can relegate too
so just because you have backing of an OWL team
doesn't mean that you can just sit there and jerf off
magic zinc
Will there be? The MLS doesn't have it iirc and suffers from it in quality
blazing parrot
