Is 123 Na or Eu
#esports-discussion
hollow egret
clever portal
When someone bothers to do it
clever wagon
Contenders has been in the launcher since S0
fierycrown6672
Seija | Non-reformed Oreo โค
hollow egret
So 123 is eu got it
wintry kraken
it is always 2 EU, 2 NA games in that order
toxic yacht
they've advertised it a lot lately, lul
balmy wolf
not on twitter
solid spear
NA should be interesting later
balmy wolf
key match up too
clever wagon
Fuk
balmy wolf
I want to see 
in proper ping now that they are in NA
has Shadder in NA ping and they looked awesome
clever portal
We'll get our points later Oreo ๐
wintry kraken
Oreo is getting an Android release ๐
solid spear
I'm trading Unkoe for Dafran
supple nymph
@balmy wolf still in alternate dimension 
solid spear
Twitter
pine star
Wew lad
vestal mortar
heh
obtuse tartan
tryna pull a Flow3r
Doomfist continues to be very balanced
god I hope Blizzard does some damage or cooldown nerfing
balmy wolf
gotta fix his hitbus first
obtuse tartan
I hate these spectators so much
spectate the Genji when you hear them ult
Why is it so hard to do that
wintry matrix
how's Bazooka Dogs looking?
obtuse tartan
down 1-2 right now
I haven't paid a lot of attention to this game though
so no idea if they were playing poorly or just got unlucky
hallow fable
The observing today is a step better then yesterday.
toxic yacht
yesterday we were having 3rd person genji gameplay where he was pressing spacebar to swap to first person for 1 second every few seconds
the bar wasn't particularily high
hallow fable
pretty sure they are uing macros
and a macro failed.
when it works, it looks great, when it doesent, its horrendus.
obtuse tartan
this is a good clip https://clips.twitch.tv/NaiveMoldyRabbitStrawBeary
FeelsGenjiMan
balmy wolf
wrong channel............
pine star
top kek
clever portal
toxic yacht
it's ares anyway
rough harbor
i'm watching the kungarna/renegades game right now, haven't really been following OWC S1 too closely...what was the reasoning behind the Control map being Best of 3 instead of Best of 5?
or was it just a glitch on the HUD
toxic yacht
it's fairer
some teams
are better on some maps
than others
since the last 2 maps are RNG
you'd decide the game by RNG if it's not a straight 3-0
clever portal
rough harbor
by some maps you mean the different zones for each round of Control, right?
clever portal
Kungarna winning 
rough harbor
makes sense
was this a decision solely made by blizzard, or was it pushed for by some of the teams?
rough harbor
would be interesting to see if any of these kinds of changes spill over to ladder
clever portal
The changes imo are mostly for time reasons
Bo5 control is one of the longest game modes
balmy wolf
apparently 
benched J3sus for xRetzi
clever portal
In theory
balmy wolf
clever portal
balmy wolf
why would you bench your carry?
clever portal
I have j3sus on my fantasy team 
balmy wolf
welp
rough harbor
well, that depends on how many rounds the escort/assault/hybrid rounds go for i guess, but based off the average time for those modes i can see why they'd want to shorten it
balmy wolf
well, a BO5 KOTH can go between 10 mins to 30 mins
rough harbor
ya
balmy wolf
tbpf if they want just BO3 they should lengthen the capture time. Up to 200 instead of 100
rough harbor
i've had 20+ minute payload games in ladder pretty regularly
that's actually a really good idea @balmy wolf
balmy wolf
it is a suggestion that has been throw around before
rough harbor
or i guess they would just half the percentage speed
clever portal
Bo5 is a cheap solution
But fun I guess
You get to switch around maps a lot
Oasis only comp when 
rough harbor
unless they made like a 4th tiebreaker stage or something lmao
that'd be way too much work
rough harbor
ya i was really impressed with retzi's tracer
balmy wolf
"good"
J3sus stat wise and history wise > xRetzi
so no idea why xRetzi is inserted in here
when J3sus at time has to carry the weight of Mangachu and the rest at times
wintry matrix
that's why i said that i hope for RNG that j3sus decided to leaven on his own
and implied that it could be worse
rough harbor
oh i thought you were talking about RNG as in random chance, not a renegades acronym
lmao
wintry matrix
like, they could've had put a mykle instead of a xretzi
oh, i forgot it is the 5-Hour Energy Drink Detroit Renegades
balmy wolf
why would you want a Tracer bot on your time vs someone who have better hero pool and better performance?
wintry matrix
5HEDDRNG
wintry matrix
i'd rather put down Manga
balmy wolf
Mangachu is literally "projectile and none"
and he doesn't even play Genji
if he plays Genji then he is a poor man's Seagull
but right now
blazing parrot
lol fuck mykl
balmy wolf
Mangachu is sort of a hinderance in term of hero pool. They has to put same hero into different people
I'm not surprise if they decide to do that just based on horoscope or something
rough harbor
these casters
balmy wolf
Mr X and Goldenboy is up there in term of CASTERS THAT NOBODY WANTS TO HEAR
rough harbor
montecristo back when
balmy wolf
never
cinder zealot
Goldenboy is actually a good caster
balmy wolf
he is too busy in Blizzard HQ
cinder zealot
better then when he's on desk
rough harbor
i just had a thought for the spectator system, it's probably been brought up before but
instead of having red and blue, and then alternating those colours for when teams are on defense or offense
each team for a tournament/series/season should get to pick a colour
cinder zealot
OW has the worst spec
cinder zealot
Its retarted like even Apex was bad last season and usually they're the top notch OW production
rough harbor
i know they're working on it, but they really gotta push some changes soon
balmy wolf
partly it is also the meta
people wants to see dive
but dive is really hard to follow
balmy wolf
oh they wanted to before this meta became stale
rough harbor
yeah, the meta is part of it, but like it'd be so easy to change the red/blue to RGB
cinder zealot
Ya at one point but I think the meta is actually in a good place rn
You see most heroes in tournies
balmy wolf
nobody ever figure out the ramifications of what they want until 3 months too late.
cinder zealot
not necessarily just dive
balmy wolf
right now it is just the experiment phase.
rough harbor
teams like immortals have a strong colour associated with their logo
balmy wolf
after a month when the meta settle
then we will see where the meta truly lies
and that's not mention the upcoming Junkrat/Widow buff that nobody asked for
wintry matrix
can't wait for the Junkmeta
balmy wolf
the two mines are AIDS
talk about 1v1 ability
two of them = instagib on any squishies
rough harbor
they're 60dmg each though, right?
balmy wolf
120
wintry matrix
you can't instagib
balmy wolf
they haven't scaled it down yet.
rough harbor
??? i thought for sure it was 60 each
blazing parrot
lol that was bad for renegades
cinder zealot
dude RNG just fucking threw hard
balmy wolf
not really. If you have both charges up you can blow it up one after another immediately.
blazing parrot
lelelelelelel
balmy wolf
and also choking? They are basically following the footstep of the Lions
wintry matrix
you're limited by having only one at a time no?
balmy wolf
nah.
rough harbor
this greenscreen is so bad
wintry matrix
well, RNG and Kungarna are kinda on the same power level
that coupled with a new dps player
wintry matrix
that sucks then
balmy wolf
you can throw one after another instantly
so yeah, 2 grenades worth of 240 damage. All the squishies are dead and he doesn't even need his pipe launcher
wintry matrix
i'll suppose they'll nerf one way of another later
balmy wolf
lol. 2 grenade and the bot just died
rough harbor
kung was expecting it for it and was ready to get out super fast
wintry matrix
JUNKRAT
sonic gyro
Is the Overwatch contenders event part of the Overwatch league?
blazing parrot
why did blizzard remove emp hacking enemy hacked packs?
rough harbor
LOL
blazing parrot
c9?
rough harbor
C9 AS FUCK
wintry matrix
fuck these teams
supple nymph
solid spear
NA OW 
blazing parrot
supple nymph
clever portal
@solid spear hold me 
solid spear
whats wrong 
clever portal
Hopefully xretzi has good stats
Muma and coolmatt 
Better have the best game of your life
rough harbor
renegades tilted af
balmy wolf
Death, taxes, and choking
solid spear
@clever portal at least you didnt have your first 2 picks die yesterday
clever portal
Fate Unkoe 
solid spear
no healing and damage stats
balmy wolf
toxic yacht
LUL
balmy wolf
even Monte has no chill toward 
inability to advertise their own shit
digital pond
Holy shit, Talespin is alive
balmy wolf
Carpe with the 4K lulz
obtuse tartan
did the camera show the 4k
rapid oxide
fuck me monte 
obtuse tartan
Boink with the stall carry
civic marsh
tweets a meme
still no tweet from play overwatch about contenders
there isn't even a contenders thing on battle net, at least for me
balmy wolf
for me there is
also Doomfist triple
and Carpe casual triple
and that firestrike into Grav lol
clever portal
@cinder zealot 
supple nymph
got em
rapid oxide
what is the social strategy?
cater casuals and ppl that fap on sombra summer skin?
supple nymph
i guess they want contenders to be perfect before they advertise?
or just skip it altogether
and ad for OWL
balmy wolf
even Riot advertise the Challengers 
balmy wolf
Carpe channeling his Taimou
limber pine
Griff's personal Twitter account isn't the best place to yell at Blizz employees
blazing parrot
rapid oxide
Better than yett at walls
rapid oxide
He said he prefer talk a d lose the job instead of asslicking
rapid oxide
Monte didn't asslick Riot, why he should do it with Blizzard?
blazing parrot
looks like backpeddling to me
rapid oxide
No, what he said is right
limber pine
I'm sure Monte has quite a few of people to call directly to talk to
blazing parrot
carpe op 
rapid oxide
Hes controlling the esport features that ironically aren't coming out because they don't give a fuck about esport
Sombra summer skin twitt and dm is top priority
For blizzard
rapid oxide
"Overwatch was built with esport in mind" 
clever portal
Tagging monkaS
rapid oxide
blazing parrot
balmy wolf
i tagged Jason Kaplan before lol. IDGAF
clever portal
You have been banned from flame
rapid oxide
He's not gonna answer
rapid oxide
Also it's against rules iirc
balmy wolf
I tag Bill before btw
clever portal
Kvo stop
limber pine
just let them be
balmy wolf
he did come here and talk
clever portal
DansGame
balmy wolf
so you know.
blazing parrot
i have too
solid spear
@blazing parrot '
solid spear
clever portal
Don't tag someone unless they are in chat, or you personally know them
rapid oxide
clever portal
Will save you some bans
solid spear
@clever portal
balmy wolf
https://twitter.com/FaZeRawkus/status/899418113434832896 bootcamping, but SDB still in the Gulag
Twitter
rapid oxide
balmy wolf
clever portal
solid spear
@solid spear 
blazing parrot
@solid spear 
clever portal
Hugging yourself smh
rapid oxide
balmy wolf
6 weeks
rapid oxide
Not his fault ye, but social aiming towards shittt casuals and fappers
Created with esport in mind
And you dont fucking Twitter your own tournament
clever portal
Vace spitting fire 
rapid oxide
Ye sorry, testing stuff for the 50 times before twitting
clever portal
I don't know why people give them the benefit of doubt
Overwatch team knows nothing about esports
Just ideas in the office
No experience in it
rapid oxide
Im a big fan
wintry matrix
they know it
they just have a weirdass idea about how to run and total silence in explaining the rationale behind it
clever wagon
Maybe prefer smaller audience as sort of a "closed beta"
Not really "closed" but
You get what I mean
wintry matrix
maybe we're really still in the testing phase
also considering how they're introducing new people to casting/desk
like Goldenboi
limber pine
^^^
wintry matrix
but i dunno, i thought Contenders would be the real deal
not like, the 100% deal full stop, but at least some level of ready
clever portal
I guess one their last chances to try something new
And atleast for NA there is no place to test talent
Only contenders
Don't like what's happening with the observing though
clever wagon
https://twitter.com/ggDoA/status/899411532110417920 Omnipresent Gillfrost
balmy wolf
btw
today Carpe over performed
but that reminded me if he was this talented
why did Selfless failed to qualify for Contenders?
solid spear
He's not the best player in the world 
wintry matrix
i'd read as "he's not the best" as in he's not the best player so that he will just carry instead of "he's not dafran"
i'm dunk
clever wagon
Fuck's happened with Kungarna vs Renegades
Did Renegades do another 5 hour energy 2 map energy?
blazing parrot
they choked so hard
wintry matrix
just watch the end of Volskaya
supple nymph
@clever wagon https://twitter.com/MLGPuckett/status/899387472047734787
clever wagon
That tweet is why I asked
balmy wolf
Death, taxes, and choking
limber pine
if only people would be contructive
supple nymph
you would need a UX designer or someone with a similar skillset to tell you exactly why
but it just looks awful
if there are UX antipatterns then it probably falls under a bunch of those
but i dont know what those would be
supple nymph
๐
blazing parrot
@limber pine did you see the post where someoen complained being banned when they said casters are sht? they were argueing it like they were giving constructive criticism
limber pine
yeah I saw
smoky hinge
I noticed that in twitch chat, whenever someone mentioned something negative about the casters it was immediately deleted
clever wagon
Idk what you're expecting with the S0 casters out
Tho I guess its also because theyre sorta given a break after world cup
I mean shit, take Hex
From that finland ASUS LAN to World Cup Santa Monica not long after
Though theres ZP
And... Reinforce was also at WC desk
balmy wolf
Uber can't do it due to applying for US visa, meanwhile Hex i have no idea. Jkap was suppose to be there but things fallen out
and now we has to settle for 2 shitters
clever wagon
Jkap 
solid spear
Goldenboy
clever wagon
I mean shit, even jamerson would still be better
But yeah
Issue at hand is... Goldenboy... needs work
balmy wolf
Goldenboy made me pour wax into my ear
clever wagon
Pour bleach
solid spear
eh he wasnt very good but he was 6 weeks to improve
people kinda need to chill on reddit with all the bashing
clever wagon
Well
Apart from the bashing, I'm not blaming them
Cause like
You actually chose someone who barely even had minor online experience
For OW
solid spear
I mean I agree he seems to be a decent host but a bad caster so far but people still need to chill about going on a forum and all shitting on him
clever portal
That clip of him 
clever portal
The meme being taken further 
feral solar
NRG
solid spear
Hooreg looking strong
glad chasm
Wait this is apex? Didn't it used to be tomorrow?
forest raven
APEX is now on Monday, Wednesday and Friday @glad chasm
glad chasm
Fucking rip my sleep sked
forest raven
kek
glad chasm
What's the other match after this?
forest raven
KongDoo Panthera vs Nc Foxes
If you keep #esports-news unmuted you'll be able to know when each tourney is going live
feral solar
5 min hold lol
balmy wolf
well @rapid oxide
there's APAC Premier 2017 later in the year
top 4 Chinese teams + invites
16 teams in total
forest raven
Twitter
rapid oxide
shit name
forest raven
How dare you
rapid oxide
xD
forest raven
Vace you hate fun
balmy wolf
@forest raven my team lost to their team the other day xP
forest raven
pine star
What the hell is this NRG roster? 
balmy wolf
i know a few people on it 
basically an US super team
just like how 
is an FR super team
toxic yacht
Birdring, Dafran, Seagull, Mendo, Jason Kaplan and Ryb
pine star
Jeff Kaplan*
rapid oxide
"who the fuck is jason kaplan, im sure i voted daddy jeff for usa team" 
wintry matrix
you know, it would be cool to see the dream teams the developers who follow esports would make
rapid oxide
So no one?
pine star
lol
NYC slot tho
wintry matrix
xd
neon imp
midnight charm
Anyone wanna play lucioball
versed sinew
@midnight charm #344627618563227650
forest raven
pine star
red anvil
LH no doubt
pine star
MVP Space 
solid spear
so in 10 hours
rapid oxide
supple nymph
wow in 2017
supple nymph
didn't he say wednesday
hearthstone director talking about esports
jeff wont mention
FeelsOverwatchMan
supple nymph
soe
rapid oxide
Nasa eclipse more views than OW esport
supple nymph
solid spear
wary falcon
25k viewers
wintry matrix
to be fair even if Contenders numbers were high, OW content would be higher anyway
i really hope the dubstep music from the teaser isn't the main theme
wary falcon
This "Queen" of Junkertown can be a new hero?
wintry matrix
i doubt it, not impossible, but unlikely
wary falcon
OWL?
crisp lynx
it was uploaded teamseoul.gg. currently removed
solid spear
Whoru is baby
Korea throwing
wary falcon
this is creepy
pine star
They're watching us
wary falcon
they made it in MS Paint?
solid spear
lol Seoul getting smashed in OWL
wary falcon
First6 will play in OWL, right?
crisp lynx
sure
wary falcon
They will play in NA?
balmy wolf
yes.
crisp lynx
first season will be in LA
crisp lynx
because NA org want MVP Space? 
solid spear
is midtier
solid spear
that explains why theyre NV level
wary falcon
Any other korean teams to play in OWL?
solid spear
pine star
dafuq is that
wary falcon
Night lights: North Korea and South Korea
pine star
Same
crisp lynx
aha
balmy wolf
@crisp lynx any other news and rumors coming from over there?
balmy wolf
wary falcon
So we have EnvyUs, Rogue, Lunatic Hai, NRG, C9 in OWL?
crisp lynx
- Misfits NA, IMT
wary falcon
no rumours about Flash Wolves?
balmy wolf
no.
solid spear
I doubt FW gets picked up as whole
red anvil
wouldent be suprised if some Rogue players was purchased
But really Unkoe is really solid
Akm needs tracer in his hero poll
wary falcon
Akm, Unkoe, Soon
balmy wolf
AKM, Unkoe would fetch a hefty price back to
wary falcon
Other are mediocre
solid spear
he has Tracer in his hero pool
wintry matrix
these 3 can easily get a team
balmy wolf
AKM Pharah's decent tbh
wary falcon
let's be real here, he is known for his soldier/mccree abilities
if you want to add tracer/pharah to his pool - you can add all other heroes aswell
symmetra for example
solid spear
tf
AKM played Tracer on Rogue before the trade lol
just because Soons been Tracer botting everyone forgets everything
He just never plays it now cuz why would play AKM on Tracer with Soon on the team
red anvil
if his tracer is really solid, then hes deffo marketable
but i wane see his tracer in action
solid spear
Youre not gonna see it on Rogue lul
red anvil
someone double slap soon for me, put him on bench and let the new guy play so i can see akm on tracer
toxic yacht
no
tviq was their tracer
lul
aKm only played tracer during dives
when tviq was on genji
aKm was never very confident in his tracer, so they only put him on her whenever tviq couldn't do it
solid spear
Well Tviq was on Genji a ton back then so AKM played a lot of Tracer
solid spear
I'm just saying he's not some god Tracer but idk why he's acting like it's some meme and bringing up Sym
solid spear
Sure but idk why were acting like it's some meme
He was a decent enough Tracer when he played her
toxic yacht
yes, decent
that's it
that's nothing compared to all of the crazy tracer players we have running around today
toxic yacht
his tracer would most definitely be a lol if he ran it now
he hasn't practiced her in what, 9 months?
in that time basically every tracer player became 10x better
solid spear
Then Jackie compares it to him adding Sym in his pool which is like...ok
clever wagon
Is WhoRU rip from team seoul
red anvil
too young
toxic yacht
I mean, sym is obviously an exaggeration, but let's not act like his tracer would be adequate at the moment. He got the job done a year ago when tracers and OW players overall weren't nearly as good as they are now. Like, his tracer was so meh that they put their projectile player on her and exclusively allowed him to play her when tviq was literally inacapable of doing it
clever wagon
H
toxic yacht
and like, if he wasn't confident back then
there's no chance in hell that he's gonna play her now
so yeah, I wouldn't put tracer into his hero pool
solid spear
I just don't like people making statements like everything but AKMs Soldier/McCree is a meme
toxic yacht
his reaper is good too :P
well, his death blossoms are NA as fuck
outside of his ults he's good a good reaper tho
soon is still better
also, avast put out a pretty interesting video on how map design promotes dives
balmy wolf
uh
i'm not quite sure of the premise tbh
why? It is the exact complaints with deathball
when deathball was the meta people shat on the map design about how it is choke centric
and now somehow the map enables dive as well?
like, pick a route you retard
wintry matrix
well, perception change
toxic yacht
well, his point wasn't about the chokes but about the giant space that's behind them. Also, avast never really blamed map design for deathballs. But yeah, he highlights how map design "promoted" deathballs back in the tank meta due to how OP the tank meta synergy with ana etc was
solid spear
I mean this is Avasts opinion and I don't remember him saying anything about maps being deathball favored before so idk what makes him a retard
toxic yacht
like, dive comps basically negate the whole idea of a choke
and capitalize on what comes after
solid spear
I know you like to generalize but not everyone says the same things
balmy wolf
@solid spear the fans will tho
toxic yacht
basically, the difficulty of accessing high ground for death balls
and how easy it is for dive comps to catch them while rotating etc
and how important high ground is effectively makes dives better on pretty much every map except KR, which barely has high ground, open spaces, flanks etc
toxic yacht
and most of the high ground during the streets phase is easily accesible while the one on last is pretty limited in use
basically, hog+ana basically allowed a deathball to overcome getting raped by a divecomp
now that ana is balanced and hog is dead, it's kinda lol
like, now that most characters are pretty fucking balanced
the synergies of dives
balmy wolf
well except Doomfist.
toxic yacht
and the map design
balmy wolf
and his hitbus
toxic yacht
kind of just helps shit on deathballs
ya, hence the most
sombra and doomfista are lol
balmy wolf
watching 
vs was just an exercise is not putting a gun into my head
every team fight was in the small room with the mega in point B
balmy wolf
gotta give credit to for somehow able to win repeated teamfights despite that hacked health pack
solid spear
DF just makes Rein way worse than he already was
solid spear
Sombra makes deathball lol
toxic yacht
in sanctum
balmy wolf
Remember when people thoughts that Sombra will counter deathball?
she does, the only problem is that it came about 3 months too fucking late
toxic yacht
anyway, theoretically tipping the balance a bit towards deathballs by making dive tanks a bit weaker to compensate for their synergy could theoretically help balance the game again
like, I personally think that dva is balanced and that winston apart from his shield uptime kinda is too
it's just that dive comp synergies are super fucking strong
balmy wolf
if you read what Zunba said tho, Doomfist might be the key here
as his attack nullified a lot of the current dive
toxic yacht
oh ya, didn't read the zunba post yet
balmy wolf
TLDR any previous formations or reactions that was designed to protect the healers last patch is not completely obselete this patch
Lucio boop? Fuck you. DM? Fuck you too. Healing station? Too bad i'm going to one shot you to a wall
And the list goes on.
toxic yacht
if barriers would block the damage from getting smashed against a wall, theoretically this could make people run zarya again
yes, for some reason zarya barriers apparently only block the punch damaga
solid spear
I mean there's lots of factors although I do think at its core it's just that Winston does more for your team than rein and is not countered as easily
wintry matrix
i think barrier is affected by knoback
red anvil
it blocks the damage dont it? but in most scenarios zarya woudent have the chance to counter play
wintry matrix
that was an old change
toxic yacht
I'd go as far as saying that a dive is flat out better than a deathball if you don't have something that completely ignores shields like hog or DF
like, dives basically completely negate shields and kinda just fuck you up
red anvil
the DF pharahmercy comp is aids af
toxic yacht
the fact that dva can compensate for the downtime on winston's shield also doesn't help
DF could fill hog's role though
red anvil
be fucked from below or be fucked from above
toxic yacht
like, you can effectively rotate DM and bubble
constantly
which makes it impossible to kill monkey
which again, while the characters themselves may be balanced
their synergy is not
and puts them above a rein comp
solid spear
Rein was actually good against Hog cuz you kinda have a safe zone from hook behind his shield
toxic yacht
back in the day you had a bubble that lasted really short, then you had a 2 second zarya bubble that you'd they'd burst through
then monkey was fucked
solid spear
DF ignores it and displaces Rein
toxic yacht
now that's kind of lol
so you had to make every dive count
either you dive in and bomb your targets
or you're ded
clever portal
Doomfist might bring Zarya back
toxic yacht
which effectively balanced dives and deathballs, as we saw during beyblade
and the discord meta
clever portal
A shield that blocks him
solid spear
Zarya has some potential even though I still think she's going to be extremely map dependant
toxic yacht
so while those characters are techincally balanced when isolated
it's lol when in a team
solid spear
Rein seems like ass
rapid oxide
flower is streaming 
balmy wolf
inb4 all of this balancing is way of pushing Orisa into the forefront
toxic yacht
I mean, DF fucks rein
if you can effectively cuck DF
rein would work
zarya could in theory protec from him
balmy wolf
Orisa counters Doomfist from both a lore and gameplay perspective, btw.
solid spear
Eh Reins already really bad against mobile shit
toxic yacht
hence zarya to bubble
toxic yacht
to protect him from DF
and if you run your own DF
in place of hog
you could theoretically cuck a dive
which would force them to swap to something else
solid spear
If I just run like Tracer, DF or Sombra why would I care
balmy wolf
toxic yacht
I'd argue that DF shits on monkey dva dives more than he shits on rein+zarya
toxic yacht
nope, you don't if he reks her
solid spear
He gonna rek your Rein too
toxic yacht
if someone gets completely shat on your run the alternative that gets shat on less and potentially swap comp to work better with that
my point is that he shits on rein less
then dives
sure, rein-dva he'd fuck up
solid spear
I don't think he does but that's just me
toxic yacht
but rein-zarya he'd shit on less than monkey-dva
which if you combo with your own DF, could be used to counter DF dives
but this is all theorizing, lul
I'll wait 2 months or some shit
and see how it actually goes
I'd be in favour of less burst damage and less healing tbh
solid spear
I really think DF shits on that harder cuz you're completely relying on a 8 second CD bubble for your Rein not to get bullied all game
toxic yacht
hence the whole idea of running your own DF, which would force them to swap to a different comp
toxic yacht
also, sombra makes dva an ult battery, but I'm not sure how you'd fit sombra in there lul
solid spear
Sombra rapes deathball harder
red anvil
So counter dive DF with DF? it'll just be the play who hits the right click the fastest
solid spear
Like every meta trend makes Rein worse
balmy wolf
like I said, all a plot to make Orisa stronger
toxic yacht
no, we won't
they don't create any space
for engagement
at all
you'll just get shat on
solid spear
Unless you mean the Zarya, D.Va, Monkey comp
No
123 and SNG both ran triple tank yesterday and it was Zarya/Monkey/D.Va/hitscan
even in triple tank theyre just avoiding Rein a lot
toxic yacht
that's been a thing for a while
also, I don't gvie a shit about what people are runnign atm
look at how long it took for teams to transistion out of tanks
red anvil
people are running everything now
toxic yacht
same thing was for monkey some months back
lul
I don't like this whole "this team is still running what we ran last meta"
because of course teams are gonna do that
balmy wolf
I just want my APEX S2 meta back
solid spear
that wasnt my argument but ok, I was just talking about Kaku referring to Zarya/D.Va comps
and saying youre still running Monkey
or some main tank
toxic yacht
well, you snuck a "because rein sucks" in there
which turned your argument into that
red anvil
Most likely, yes. you'll have to run monkey. but atm how DF acts you need both zarya and d.va to protect backline
solid spear
I mean I also said some teams are trying to run him now .-.
and literally said despite that I think hes not good
red anvil
monkey, sure, either with him or without him that wasent really included in my statement
but discussing d.va or zarya? you do need them both atm regardless i there is a monkey or not
toxic yacht
also, people are forgetting that zarya shits on dva
DF trying to fist rein to death
is almost 40 energy
if you could then take advantage of the DF trying to keep diving you while he's protected by dva
solid spear
I also think Sombra is underutilized on some maps, that hero is stupid we should be seeing her more
toxic yacht
you dould push it to aroun 70 energy
balmy wolf
balmy wolf
just run triple tank dive tbph. But good luck convincing team that it is going to be the meta
solid spear
I think teams are kinda trying to experiment a bit rn
toxic yacht
I'll just say that people didn't think that the ana nerfs and bubble buffs were gonna be enough to push out tanks
red anvil
time will tell, if or if not thats what it ends up on, time will tell. For all we know DF could be junkrat at next patch
and we go back to old boring dive
solid spear
I mean when bubble was buffed dive was already being played a lot
so idk what you mean
toxic yacht
I'm pretty confident in the fact that people are gonna see something that's gonna tur all of this around
balmy wolf
@toxic yacht since when this bloody player base ever think about the ramification of the buff/nerf idea
solid spear
Winston was already >50% usage when he was buffed
solid spear
And I at no point said anything about Rein being buffed
red anvil
i think the pros on this stage wane expriment to play something else then dive luckily
toxic yacht
without trying to consider the ramifications that other things could ahve
clever wagon
3 people typing at the same time, is this really #e-d?
red anvil
so many seem to long for zarya comps again
solid spear
just that I think hes not good rn
I never said anything about buffing anything so idk what ramifications were talking about
balmy wolf
My team ran dive defense back in February and then my main tank said that it only worked vs lower tier teams. And then 3 months later everyone and their moms were running dive 
balmy wolf
@solid spear not to you
solid spear
meta could change I just specifically think the meta is volatile for Rein
toxic yacht
we still haven't completely figured out how it's gonna work out
solid spear
like Rein specfically
toxic yacht
those ramifications, I meant
also, DF is completely new, but everyone is only thinking about him in the framework of the comps that we run right now
taht's what I'm talking about
solid spear
I mean yeah you could be wrong, I could be wrong idk...I just personally think Rein will have a lot of trouble
cuz I even think Sombra will get more play on more maps cuz she might be underutilized
its not just DF
toxic yacht
I don't think that we're gonna go full deathball like we did full dive, but I'm pretty confident in the fact that we'll be seeing a lot more variation 2 months down the line
especially with the completely unnecessary Orisa buffs incoming
lul
balmy wolf
and Junkrat
solid spear
I think well see more variation too
solid spear
especially if another patch hits
red anvil
Junkrat and Widow buffs
balmy wolf
BECAUSE BRONZE ISN'T EFFECTIVE ENOUGH WITH HER THAT'S WHY
toxic yacht
like, I could follow almost every other change
balmy wolf
solid spear
Im not referring to overall meta variation but rather specifically Monkey vs Rein and why I think youll see Monkey much more still
red anvil
lets make Widow be able to grapple away every time winston jumps after her
perfect plan
clever portal
balmy wolf
oh and you can throw the two charges of the Junkrat grenades back to back when both charges are up.
solid spear
Widow has low pick rate and win rate in ranked and they probaby felt she was underpowered
clever portal
Widow jump shots all the time 
toxic yacht
it's impossible to reliably contest her as genji now if she gets even a bit support and has 1337 jukes
solid spear
based on stats
balmy wolf
Remember when Geoff used a 1v1 example where Junkrat can 1v1 a Pharah now with his charges? I can't help but thinking in mind buffing a character = buffing their strength against their natural counter.
Like why?
red anvil
genji can at least double jump after grapple
balmy wolf
THEY ARE NATURAL COUNTER FOR A REASON
toxic yacht
jumping vs hitscan
red anvil
and be fucked mid air by headshot
balmy wolf
WHY WOULD YOU BUFF A CHARACTER TO BE PRECISELY GOOD AGAINST THEIR HARD COUNTER?
THAT'S NOT GOOD GAME BALANCING
toxic yacht
genji is fucked after his second jump
if he doesn't get a kill/get out after the second jump
vs hitscan
he's dead
balmy wolf
and then in comp it is going to be a shit show
toxic yacht
lul
I can't imagine it being worse than now, you already get 5 dps matches with widow and hanzo every game
solid spear
comps probably why she was buffed in the first place
toxic yacht
let's give reinhard the ability to shield his backside
and make genji deflect 360ยฐ
and make it deflect beams
toxic yacht
we can't have characters with exploitable weaknesses now, can't we?
winston can now move his bubble
red anvil
winston can now put barrier on his back and run in like a koala
toxic yacht
lmao
red anvil
just buff all heroes so they are all insta killed the moment they exit spawn
balance successful 
solid spear
I mean idr where I said it but they have nerfed anything since RH besides the DF stuff in PTR when he came out so all the changes do seem to be favoring power creep
toxic yacht
76
but yeah, all changes are favouring powercreep, which is why I'm complaining in the first place
solid spear
nah it was Reaper/Cree Buff/ Hog nerf
toxic yacht
aye
solid spear
76 was like...March or April I think
toxic yacht
we can check
solid spear
Ill check one sec
solid spear
but yeah Crees been buffed twice, same with Reaper, Zarya, Rein, Orisa, Junk, Widow, Hog all buffs
solid spear
yeah Zen, Hanzo, Sombra stuff before that
toxic yacht
the only nerfs were ana damage, bastion balancing because of a buff, soldier nerf and shatter nerf
and tons of buffs
solid spear
and then Roadhog
toxic yacht
balmy wolf
some of the buffs i feels like missed its mark. Hanzo buffs was to make him "have more consistent DPS". Who pick Hanzo for downrange DPS?
toxic yacht
hanzo buff was 
balmy wolf
and of course the Roadhog "tweak"
solid spear
it was ultimately qol
toxic yacht
is good, I guess?
red anvil
forgot about hanzo buff 
red anvil
it was like 5% more dps
toxic yacht
all it did was make him more frustrating to play against while barely buffing him
lul
balmy wolf
mind you, Roadhog tweak's reasoning was "to make him less reliant on 1HK while maintain his DPS". WHO PICKED ROADHOG FOR DPS
His DPS was just the cherry on top of his ability to score an entry kill
solid spear
DF nerf is good though, completely fair
red anvil
only hero you really pick for pure damage is Solider