i belive tank meta lasted more
#esports-discussion
rapid oxide
rapid oxide
tank meta was way worse than dive
clever portal
But triple tank was only there 3 months
balmy wolf
dive is AIDs in its own way
clever portal
How, you could dive in tank meta
clever wagon
Did the Rein-Hog-Dva-Ana (or "Ana overhealing tanks") meta actually run that long?
clever portal
In dive you dive or..... You dive
rapid oxide
in tank meta you tank or... you tank
balmy wolf
through APEX S1 semis to NGE Winter Premiere final
clever portal
No Winston had 20% pick rate
balmy wolf
so yes, 3 months
clever portal
In the middle of triple tank
balmy wolf
only for KR though
clever portal
Rein is like symmetra now
balmy wolf
KRs didn't give a shit about triple tank
clever wagon
I mean dude
balmy wolf
and just run dive
clever wagon
Let's look at it this way
Yes exactly
KR still found dive to be viable amidst all of that
Now?
balmy wolf
everyone and their moms dive
clever portal
Even selfless dives now
clever wagon
Even fucking Selfless and LGE are forced to dive
clever portal
I saw people diving in console gold
rapid oxide
especially all of yours dive on me 
balmy wolf
you know the meta has solidly in place when teams that never dive before dive
and then there's idiot who thinks that a Mei once in a blue moon is proof that "meta isn't solved yet"
๐ค
gusty notch
rapid oxide
E speedboost only himself + give heals
clever wagon
I mean boy do I miss when we were able to see dive AND Rein comp in OMM
pine wren
anyone that knows when the current meta was invented? like dates and such
balmy wolf
bring him in between the AIDS double winston cooldown to the 12 secs (which in reality more like 10) bubble
there's no solid date, mate
all of these shifts are gradual
clever wagon
Isn't it like around mid-Rumble onwards?
pine wren
ok thanks
clever wagon
Or towards the end of Rumble into APEX S3
balmy wolf
Winston got his bubble buff + Ana got nerf
that's the turning point
OW Open is still the best in term of meta tbh
Beyblade was a thing but teams was diving on KOTH
Reinhardt on payload
it is a nice balance.
clever wagon
When APEX S2 was still raving about amazing Reinhardt mains 
toxic yacht
also, most dps were viable
rapid oxide
you guys looks like a broken record
balmy wolf
it is bound to happens
toxic yacht
I dunno, I was pretty happy with the apex S2 meta and never complained about it
rapid oxide
bullshit
clever wagon
Even when everybody was going through it
toxic yacht
I still barely complain about dive
clever wagon
Uhhh no, you're the one bullshitting
toxic yacht
I was salty af during tank meta though
balmy wolf
everyone will eventually complains about meta. I pointed out that this meta is hard to watch
but everyone was like "no"
rapid oxide
every meta
balmy wolf
until Yongbongtang pointed that out as well
rapid oxide
people will bitch about how hard is to spectate
balmy wolf
and suddenly "yeah this meta has always been hard to watch"
clever wagon
"Every meta" keep going Vace
clever wagon
You can't deny that it was the most diverse and nobody could even complain when RunAway and LH were still found running both dive and Rein, among others
rapid oxide
there's no good or bad meta to spectate
people that used to watch ow are fine
people wouldn't understand shit even if they have slowboost
i've no issue spectating a different meta
as veteran spectator is meaningless to me
clever wagon
But Yongbongtang is a veteran on stage analyst and caster
rapid oxide
because i understand what's happening most of the time
no matter what's the actual meta
ok so i can't have a different opinion?
clever wagon
If people who do this for a job find it to be an issue, I don't know how you can even deny it
rapid oxide
he said that envyus will win 100%
clever wagon
Not what I was saying
clever wagon
I thought we're talking about spectating issues?
rapid oxide
"sombra will shake the meta"
all pros
LUL
fucking L U L
during blizzcon
Sombra is OP
yes lmao
๐
clever wagon
Because Sombra is the only thing happened going forward?
Blizz made other balancing decisions wink wink
And that's not for pros to decide
As we all know
rapid oxide
not even pros are able to balance properly
not me
not you
no one is able
"Dva is dead with this patch, not even the DM fix will makes her better"
ok
rapid oxide
yes
people said dva usage will drop
time ago "no matter how nerf you mercy, res is too powerfull" after ana patch
copper bane
people treat pros and analysts as the gospel
rapid oxide
ana came out, 0% mercy
copper bane
pros are good because they have good mechanics, they aren't fortune tellers
predicting metas is extremely hard in any game
copper bane
true
clever wagon
They aren't the ones making balance decisions either
Vicous cycle
Meh
ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
copper bane
different game, but look at all the pre expansion hearthstone videos by pros where they predict things and get so much shit wrong every time
rapid oxide
blizzard is not able to balance
but not even pros
i read some twitt of grego time ago about lucio suggestion
were fucking kek
i was like "this guy is really a pro?!?" lmao
copper bane
what was it
rapid oxide
was too stupid i wanted to forget it
clever wagon
Well, we'll see
copper bane
lol
clever wagon
You considered the McCree and Reaper things as Blizz responding to pros
rapid oxide
kinda
clever wagon
If they creepin back into the meta sooner or later, that's one job Blizz got done
toxic yacht
well, reaper has been popping up more and more lately
especially eUnited, they incorperated him into their triple dps dive
limber pine
I love backseat balancing
rapid oxide
ana damage decrease is useless, his grenades is too much op that it's necessary
Tier 3 (>20% Usage Rate): Soldier 76 (48%), Ana (25%)
toxic yacht
to be fair, taht's only because zen works better with dive
if dive weren't meta ana would still be an instalock
balmy wolf
the thing about OW's shift in meta is that OW is sensitive to balance change but it is slow to actually get it crystalized. Remember how Ana was supposedly underpowered for like 2 months before NIP found a way to abuse her?
clever wagon
Though it's still dive with no signs of other fundamentally different comps being viable
rapid oxide
"Hanzo will be a must pick" Timo 'I play ow even if i dont like it but i can't stop otherwise i will work on mcdonalds because i can't do nothing irl' Kettunen
clever wagon
We'll see
rapid oxide
Hanzo (0%)
copper bane
lol
balmy wolf
sigh
copper bane
timo 
balmy wolf
between Winston's bubble buff to when the dive meta truly taking root
it is also a good 2 months too
Pharmercy even longer
rapid oxide
"OMG JUNKRAT FINALLY VIABLE; YOU CAN CAST RIPTIRE ISTANTLY" bronze 
Junkrat (0%)
"YOU DONT DIE ON YOUR OWN GRENADES"
Junkrat (0%)
clever wagon
I never gave a single fuck about Junkrat
limber pine
The game will never get to a point where more than 50% of the heroes are viable at top tier
clever wagon
Tbh
rapid oxide
wish he will be on Z tier forever
limber pine
that's simply the reality of the fact
toxic yacht
ngl
clever wagon
Junkrat's projectile arc is so weird and shit TF2 did it better
balmy wolf
this dive meta will last a fucking long while though
toxic yacht
if junkrat becomes viable
without massive design shifts
I'll probably stop playing ow
rapid oxide
even TF2 that someone ๐ sucking that game because """its better than ow"""
balmy wolf
remember, whenever a defense hero was meta everything went to shit
rapid oxide
have one of the most stale meta ever
toxic yacht
he's fucking cancerous garbage to play against
rapid oxide
soldier, scout, medic, demo
copper bane
no one expects all the heroes to have equal play rate
rapid oxide
repeat
balmy wolf
@copper bane you would be surprise at the amount of people who think it is
limber pine
^^
copper bane
firstly it's literally impossible
toxic yacht
some people don't seem to have the mental capacity to comprehend that
balmy wolf
doesn't stop people from thinking that it is
copper bane
well that sounds why we have the bronze tier
balmy wolf
"defense heroes need buff"
Widow meta? Bastion meta? Mei meta? Hello?
some of the most cancerous meta are defense heroes based
rapid oxide
bastion meta for 1 week?
balmy wolf
3 days
copper bane
most people that say shit are <gold
rapid oxide
mei needs nothing
balmy wolf
copper bane
compow is the same
copper bane
low rank kids complaining
rapid oxide
maybe small tweaks but nothing core
clever wagon
Aren't those r/ow tier shitters that only recently are seeing a raise in r/cow traffic though
balmy wolf
you never know the depth of stupidity, man
rapid oxide
/r/ow is way worse
copper bane
r/ow is literally aids
balmy wolf
has a plat team that argued with me when coaching them that dive with Mercy was the right idea 
rapid oxide
because you have people that aren't interested in esport
= no knowledge of actual meta
= shit
= gold and below
copper bane
r/ow is just casuals up to the brim
balmy wolf
https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/comments/6leeun/kongdoos_new_meta_zarya_mccree_combo/ the face when people forgot this combo was a thing
wintry matrix
i go to sleep, and wake up to the reddit circlejerk?
rapid oxide
can't understand why they prefere watching shit tier gold gameplay
clever wagon
Grav + DeadEye?
rapid oxide
istead of top 500 gameplay
balmy wolf
it is the daily rage hour @wintry matrix
toxic yacht
the channel is kinda like taht these days :/
balmy wolf
@clever wagon basically
wintry matrix
it makes me rage
copper bane
because in gold dva can get 6 man with bomb
toxic yacht
mostly just people complaining about the same shit
over and over
until a match starts
clever wagon
"People" literally the regulars here nobody excluded
wintry matrix
tbh there's times i'd perefer r/ow to cow and here
rapid oxide
@copper bane true. the only time i get killed by that is because im CCed
wintry matrix
at least there's ocasionally funny stuff there
toxic yacht
lol, r/cow has been kinda stoopid for 2 months or something
clever wagon
Funny?
rapid oxide
2 month?
wintry matrix
not the mountains of "OW SUCKS" "I KNOW HOW TO FIX THE GAME"
rapid oxide
like since forever
clever wagon
Gee, I'm really having a hard time finding anything funny among the literal fucking shit one liner garbage they call a joke
wintry matrix
cow has the same bad stuff ow has, just no one admits
balmy wolf
https://www.twitch.tv/esl_csgo 
2-0 G2 esport 
rapid oxide
tier 2 brazil 
clever wagon
What the fuck?
wintry matrix
even some highlights i find funny sometimes, and there's fan art, or when a VA posts
clever wagon
The G2? NBK and peeps?
balmy wolf
yes.
clever wagon
I thought they're a fucking superteam lul?
solid spear
r/cow 
rapid oxide
You must be invited to visit this community
The moderators of this subreddit have set it to private. You must be a moderator or approved submitter to visit.
clever wagon
... What are you doing
wintry matrix
if it was r/achel everyone would be accepted
clever wagon
I wonder what's behind that
limber pine
tsk tsk
pine wren
If you played zarya or ana and want to get into dive comps, would it be wise to let the same players play dva and zen? is the playstyle similar?
limber pine
I mean, generally your supports will play support and your tanks will play tanks
until you have a designated flex
*unless
balmy wolf
flexing a support to a tank
limber pine
and are changing the amount of either
balmy wolf
limber pine
I mean if you need a third tank, a dps flex can switch to it
pine wren
yeah but im talking about 2 players here, sorry i messed up the wording here
one player is swapping to dva and the other to zen
they played the same role before
does the zen hang back like an ana does
for example
balmy wolf
i mean, conceptually, yes? But execution wise Winston/D.va/Zen is different from Winston/Zarya/Ana
generally off tank help main tank while support helps the tanks line
but with Ana you can be more aggressive because of the heal and the debuff of the grenade
as well as playing a bit "loose"
but with Zen target calling has to be on point
because lack of healing
so the enemy team has to die first
balmy wolf
yes
pine wren
ok ty again
rapid oxide
Jay_Button [-1]Fear me 0 points 35 minutes ago
I don't watch eSports games of Overwatch so I don't care about the pro scene. I would be totally fine with a casual playerbase because that's where I'm at
FieldofRice Trick-or-Treat Symmetra [score hidden] 8 minutes ago
no one cares about ow esports, cause no one wants to watch it other than overwatch competitive subreddit lol
clever wagon
Sometimes you just want to bash someone's head in to bits
@rapid oxide link the thread pls
rapid oxide
casual and normies are ruining this world tbh
and casual=normies
"Normies like unchallenging and repetitive content"
literally 90% of /r/ow
where they are barely gold and watch the same potg over and over
balmy wolf
People never realized why the hardcore audience is vital to a game's long term health
News at 11
I dont expect normies who consume COD every year without missing a beat to realize it
And neither should you
rapid oxide
they are hopeless
wintry matrix
i think the game can survive without pros, at least judging on TF2
balmy wolf
you mean slowly dying a painful death?
rapid oxide
you mean on life support?
wintry matrix
wasn't TF2 very popular for a long time? without pros ever really taking off the ground?
clever portal
Yeah people played it for fun
clever portal
Player numbers were tiny though
If blizzard wants a 10k player active game, that's fine
clever wagon
I don't know why wouldn't you want your game to be LAN ready from the get go
toxic yacht
I know the year because I'm salty about half life 2 episode 2
clever wagon
I mean if anything probably tournament clients
clever wagon
What about CSGO?
dusty surge
No it doesn't. LAN just means it's all local, the arch doesn't necessarily have to change.
toxic yacht
ow has anti cheat
clever portal
But nothing that is scanning your system
dusty surge
Warden
clever portal
Pls explain warden
toxic yacht
it's like VAC
dusty surge
Blizzard's version of VAC
toxic yacht
but not VAC
wary falcon
OW has ANTICHEAT?
HAHA
actually you can use autohotkey or autoit for aimbot
and you won't get banned
just don't use public source
clever portal
I wouldn't say cheating is a serious problem in this game
toxic yacht
lol
clever portal
Just so many characters don't require mechanical skill, so you don't need to cheat
dusty surge
Yeah, that's one thing that's always seemed odd to me.
clever portal
Maybe he shoots shields 
dusty surge
It's trivial to hook the WinAPI calls that move the mouse (which all the AHK-based pixel bots use)
WHy doesn't Warden hook that and go "oh look, this thing keeps moving the mouse right on to headshots"
wary falcon
you can change from headshots to 30% headshot ratio
toxic yacht
ow added some countermeasures for badly written ahk bots in a recent patch iirc
wary falcon
or simply: every 3rd shot into head plus-minus 1 shot
toxic yacht
not gonna fight back against the actually well made ones
wary falcon
and add random pattern
dusty surge
Yeah, but that's just changing the color so static pixelbots fail.
toxic yacht
kinda fucks up cheapish bad ones though
dusty surge
It still isn't detecting them any better (from that change alone).
wary falcon
they add few colors, so ahk would have problem with detecting hitbox through screenshots
in theory
wintry matrix
i wonder how vac came to be what it is today, it is considered a pretty good anti-systen right?
wonder how it evolved
wintry matrix
oh, nvm then
wary falcon
I don't know any good anticheats except AC with kernel access
like ESEA-bitcoin-miner-anticheat
Valve tried to do this but people were heavily against this
because privacy
tame flax
whats the point in having hacks if noone can aim on console anyway?
wintry matrix
that's the point
clever portal
We can aim 
tame flax
also competitive overwatch on console will be dead by next year trust me
clever portal
Console games have short lifespans
clever portal
Like 1-2 years
tame flax
yup, like i said
clever portal
Cod ww3 
tame flax
clever portal
Console aim isn't that bad, console overwatch aim is aids though
tame flax
cus it doesnt hae as much aim assist as other fps on console?
clever portal
Yeah, game was made for pc
tame flax
true
clever portal
Titanfall/cod really smooth
But nothing beats pc
You guys want to hear a joke
You can buy cs on console
clever portal
Because it was a meme
And valve don't really know how to make console games
Left 4 dead was good though
wary falcon
cs:go has huge console influence
clever portal
Split screen was fun
clever portal
I'm guessing they changed it after that?
wary falcon
They changed a lot of stuff
rebalanced weapons, created new maps and reworked old ones
but game was dead till Skins Update
clever portal
up
sturdy granite
r/overwatch complains about things in ranked play, yet still say it can live as a casual game. Also, water is wet.
This looks interesting
rapid oxide
sturdy granite
actually better than the single esports discussion on the main sub. A surprise, but a welcome one.
clever portal
To be honest there were some good comments in that thread
I actually agree with one of them
That regardless of what happens the game has been a sucess
Even if it dies tonight they sold 30 million copies and sold some lootboxes
Blizzard should be fine with the revenue
toxic yacht
well, remember that OW was initally not OW
who knows how much money they sank into titan
if I were them I wouldn't be happy until we turned the theoretical costs of titan into profit
solid spear
Well we dont know how many actual copies theyve sold but game is a success regardless
clever portal
Allegedly 30 million
solid spear
Well that's accounts not sales
wintry matrix
did titan left concept phase?
solid spear
On console you get an extra account just by switching your user on the system plus that counts free weekend accounts as well, like I have like 5 accounts but Ive only actually bought the game twice
toxic yacht
titan went pretty deep into development iirc
blizz invested a lot of time in it
worked on it for years
then they threw it all into the trash/refitted assets and other stuff to OW
limber pine
yup
supple nymph
i think 5 years wasnt it?
wintry matrix
wouldn't be surprised if OWL was invented with the prospect of recouping a bit of those costs
clever portal
OWL probably won't make money till 2021
wintry matrix
even if that leak is to be believed, i think bliss will make money sooner
balmy wolf
I'm mighty curious to why Blizzard think that OWL their style was feasable
considering that the way the org invested and it grow into it was quite organic
wintry matrix
because it probably would been different from a league format, and more towards short term tourneys
balmy wolf
someone must has done the math and said "this is totally feasiable"
limber pine
i hope so
wintry matrix
i mean, obviously
limber pine
otherwise the answer is "We thought about it and said, sure why not?"
balmy wolf
then again corporates has done their share of math and shit still failed
wintry matrix
i mean, one thing is thinking about, another is succeeding
supple nymph
they could be getting 3rd party analytics that are completely bogus
remember someone published one a few months ago
balmy wolf
that article?
where they said that OWL is potentially hundreds of millions in potential revenue?
supple nymph
yea it was actual market research
but it didnt make sense at all how they did it
that one
balmy wolf
I wonder if they just look at how much DOTA2 TI has in term of their prize pool and think that OW can has that kind of income as well
supple nymph
like look at the percentages
no way that is even remotely true
they could be getting BS research like that
clever portal
So 9% off all gamers play overwatch
You know it's a lie because they claim it includes mobile
balmy wolf
and console
clever portal
Mobile games have 100s millions of downloads
supple nymph
also c9 https://www.twitch.tv/riotgames
sturdy granite
Can't wait for Overwatch Pocket edition
clever portal
Nice
balmy wolf
OPC was having players POV in front of the desk, mind you
it is always the NA/EU Production that lagged behind
clever portal
That POV was literally a second monitor
Not something you could spectate on stream
balmy wolf
what the fuck was that play
balmy wolf
142K viewers ๐ค
supple nymph
competitive esport that isnt mirror match
balmy wolf
140+ heroes though
wintry matrix
also moba
balmy wolf
meanwhile OW has like 23 with development team slow as molasses
wintry matrix
you'd prefer it was Paladins?
wintry matrix
it's mostly because of card and higher ttk
tho there's still cancer like cauterize (which essentially makes healing useless) and wrecker (whcih makes shields useless)
but most paladins new heroes are similar to others, best case is tyra which is very similar to victor
supple nymph
c9 getting dumpstered lol
๐ฏ
wintry matrix
rip
supple nymph
who
wintry matrix
if Runaway continued together this wouldn't have happen
french team, never amounted to much
limber pine
what was the last thing LDLC did?
supple nymph
in OWC
limber pine
it will likely make it to the front of r/compow, because circlejerk
balmy wolf
supple nymph
tactical throw
"no serious team will stream scrims"
rapid oxide
limber pine
i don't really see the big deal in streaming scrims
but I know what the rebuttal will be
balmy wolf
I mean if Thailand, Canada and Russia all ended up getting through to the playoff
and Team USA get rekt by 
and 
they only have one man to blame
rapid oxide
๐
supple nymph
you mean 3 man to blame?
limber pine
people are too impatient
we live in an age where we've had some advancement in esports, so people expect better results than esports 10 years ago
rapid oxide
you can't build rome in one day
limber pine
exactly
I remain cautiously optimistic
maybe that makes me a fool
but oh well
ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
clever portal
I also don't find the cs comparison valid
rapid oxide
75% of people are like that
clever portal
Valve could never touch the game again and it would be fine
rapid oxide
same here
clever portal
It's just a different type of game, a better comparison would be to league or dota
rapid oxide
who are complaining are hardocore players
casual will still play
and the game wont die anytime soon
limber pine
Overwatch doesn't really have a great comparison IMO
gameplay wise
CSGO much slower, LoL and DotA2 are MOBAs, TF2 is just...different
dusty surge
At least OW's esports scene will never be as bad as PS2's.
supple nymph
TIL ps2 had esports
dusty surge
Planetmans2, not plebstation2.
supple nymph
yep
dusty surge
Ahh, okay. Yeah. It was a thing for one event and roughly two weeks.
supple nymph
such a boring game to play
im not surprised
they should remake ps as a pubg style game 
clever portal
Calling PS2 plebstation 
clever portal
eSports 
solid spear
._.
clever portal
Wonder who his replacement is
limber pine
any good swedish free agents?
balmy wolf
Yeah I wonder what took them so long lol
rapid oxide
probably lack of something to say
Overgg have no ads so it doesnt make sense
Liquipedia discord is always updated with transfert
way more than The O.W or over.gg
clever portal
Link?
balmy wolf
no wait
thats the team liquid discord
its here http://wiki.teamliquid.net/
under "how to contribute"
clever portal
balmy wolf
just as i expected
World cup will follow Contenders format
and this format will probably be OWL's defacto format
2CP being Volskyaya and Horizon though ๐ค
Volskaya is the best 2cp map and Horizon is new
Kings row though
finally
and no oasis unless tiebreaker
thank fuck
Ilios though
Horizon is actually not a bad map but it still suffered from the usual 2CP AIDS
meanwhile, no Gilbraltar
they probably sick of teams running dive on it every day of the week
Nah horizon is garbage
toxic yacht
ah, so they're actually including non-dive maps now
balmy wolf
No gib nerfs rogue
toxic yacht
lul
it's a free win for them anyway
losing anything in those groups
would be embarassing af
balmy wolf
lol
Dorado is also another Rogue map
the only team that took it out from Rogue was LG Evil
and Selfless at one point
but Dorado is Rogue's turf
less than Gilbraltar but Gilbraltar is just dive heaven
balmy wolf
10 maps still is a lot tbh
clever portal
It ads the problem back in Apex S2 days
balmy wolf
they ban out Anubis, Hanamura, Gilbraltar and Eichenwalde
clever portal
Some teams will be better on some map pools
How about a system where the teams themselves determine the map poolm
So they chose the 4 maps to ban
Inb4 in NA: Anubis, Volskaya, Hanamura, Horizon
balmy wolf
nah
they want every maps to be "showcase"
meanwhile in NA people seems to come to an agreement to just play a certain set of maps
hence why Gilbraltar, and Anubis was on every damn time
despite having other maps in the pool
clever portal
You don't need to practise any maps if you play the same ones Everytime 
vocal pine
hi
balmy wolf
Hello
clever portal
Heya
solid spear
Hiya
wintry matrix
btw, if dafran is the tyler the creator of OW esports, who is the MF Doom?
wintry matrix
is Buds that good?
wintry matrix
i know he's good, but MF Doom level?
balmy wolf
that's the closest I could think atm
wintry matrix
i just used as an opportunity to call dafran tyler tc
solid spear
ofc
solid spear
came from ow-d which was the esports-d before esports-d existed
clever portal
You used to be a normie
toxic yacht
lul, before the e-d days
when I was trying to get into esports
it was annoying as shit
to have no dedicated channel
so whenever something smaller was happening, I was kind of fucked
literally discussed the WC group stages in #overwatch
solid spear
I mean whenever a tournament was on we just took over the channel lol
solid spear
yeah
toxic yacht
kinda a bummer that gamescom-discussion and overwatch-open-discussion aren't a thing anymore
I'd love to just reread some shit
like the reactions to hidan's sleepdarts
toxic yacht
or misfits pulling multiple c9s before it was cool
ya, back then when everyone suddenly ran ana
solid spear
nothing beats Envy Rogue at ESL though
toxic yacht
it was honestly so fitting that uber got to cast the match
he somehow always gets the best matches
solid spear
based
solid spear
hmmm
balmy wolf
This channel is the overwatch open channel @toxic yacht
just renamed after it ended
this is last year's WC commentator
๐ค
Oh wait
as long as I have ZP/Hex with Jkap/Uber, i'm a-ok with it
Nevermind this is the apac channel
Monte/Doa though ๐ด
I wanted reinforce analyst again 
clever portal
I'm guessing Hex will be there
Instead of Deman/Reinforce
What if they bring in Atlus and wolf 
clever portal
Ajax is not actually bad
balmy wolf
whats wrong with flame analyst
balmy wolf
Kelvin was actually such a legit team
clever portal
It's just his stream/vod reviews that are mediocre
balmy wolf
the ajax and b1am support duo was so good
og kungarna bois
Ajax is not a shotcaller though. And it is easy to look good vs T2 and amateur team
As far as Flame goes, his analyst is kind of wack once you read LH coach and Yongbongtang's analysis
clever portal
Yeah like I said, his work on stream and stuff isn't the best
But see his work at MLG/monthly melee
balmy wolf
You do realise that being a desk analyst isnt the same thing as looking back on multiple games and writing up a big in depth analysis right?
Like its not comparable at all
also they're korean
I watched MLG Vegas too, mind you. I didn't feel him back then, and through the whole OMM as well
balmy wolf
of course, inb4 this get screencap and get posted to flamecord for mockery because i merely expressed an opinion
also @toxic yacht you are slow
balmy wolf
Yeah he's definitely just a bad analyst
no bias or anything
mind you, i feel indifferent about my ban
but I tried to watched Flame's analysis before and I came away thinking "I didn't learn that much from it"
supple nymph
i dont, fuck flame
balmy wolf
and I was in his discord mainly for the leaks and the occasional bantering with pros anyway
supple nymph
hehe ban people for no reason
balmy wolf
so I don't have a bias to him except "eh, I think he is overrated"
clever portal
They ban for leaks
balmy wolf
nah i got ban before it
clever portal
Im just hoping they having an analyst desk
balmy wolf
they probably will
clever portal
Whoever it may be
balmy wolf
I'd rather have someone like say, Hulk on it
supple nymph
seagull
balmy wolf
nah he'd be too busy snipe streaming WC
Hulk is actually analyst-material now that I think about it
balmy wolf
oh right
๐ค
last time it was Reinforce being the pros on the seat
Cocco, maybe?
supple nymph
balmy wolf
"16 years old Prodigy" -> 
wut
Cocco isnt the analyst type
does somebody have a hard on for Zacharee?
He was hard carrying them
along with mangachu sometimes
lol "Wrong End of the Rogue trade"
๐ฏ old 
๐ฏ
toxic yacht
cocca would just do his cocooface while staring into the camera
balmy wolf
He just isn't the type to even talk for long periods of time
๐ค
he seems to be the only noticable pro that does not involves with a team though
solid spear
I want my Dafran back 
balmy wolf
wut
the only pro that does not involve with a team?
WC team.
not pro team.
also "Accused of flipping the switch"
balmy wolf
well he wont be doing anything else even if c9 is still together
B1shop not actually a bad choice, but the problem is that C9 just pulled out of BEATS
so they probably are doing something even when they flunked out of Contenders
probably involves another set of restructuring
so?
supple nymph
firing squad
balmy wolf
he is ok, but a professional like him probably wanted to stick and coach his team more
that's what I pointed out
Coach his team while they're split up playing the wc?
I guess he could stay back and coach 3 of them
till the wc is over
only Surefour and Adam involves in WC
and they only involves in one qualifier each
Roolf aswell
Half the team gone
Yeah he'll coach them
coach them in 3v6 scrims
fair point.
balmy wolf
still, not really seeing B1shop on the analyst desk since it is unlikely so far
NRG is lol
Seamoose helped spectating the first World Cup btw
toxic yacht
Gods also isn't there because lul
solid spear
well idk NRG should probably just continue hiding for a while and try and get shit together
toxic yacht
they've been scrimming with phaz and xretzi, snow was flown in all the way from brazil too
curious about wot they are doing
supple nymph
๐ฅ ๐ฐ ๐ฅ
balmy wolf
selly inc
solid spear
yeah heard theyve trialed Koreans as well
solid spear
and Aythen got a trial but I dont think theyll go there
toxic yacht
also, since this somehow wasn't posted
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Hno4iQwHSM&t=0s
balmy wolf
why would you want 2 hitscan unless you are doing it Rogue-style, and even then where does that leave Mr. Harbleu then
Harbleu on Genji 
toxic yacht
I don't even like rogue's 2 hitscans
that's gonna bite them in the ass
big time
at some point
solid spear
idk I mean you have teams like Kungarna running almost exlcusively double hitscan
you can get away with it now
but I wouldnt build my team around that
toxic yacht
they'd have been kinda fucked during the discord meta
basically, run cree and reaper every game
lul
or tracer
balmy wolf
Babybay ran Genji times to times during Contenders
toxic yacht
but no genji would have been lol
solid spear
at least with Selly
you might have an ok Genji option
even if you dont really run it
toxic yacht
I just really don't like the idea of double hitscan dps
I'd rather have a god hitscan and a got proj with decent hitscan
than 2 hitscan
balmy wolf
no Genji means that you are going to have to play it strictly in a way. That fucked 
hard when realized that could only run a dive comp involves Tracer/76
toxic yacht
and 2 projectiles is lul
balmy wolf
has almost never run anything that doesn't involve Tracer/76
which fucked them over when never gave them space for Babybay and Mykl to operate
Babybay only run Genji in vertically challenged map like Numbani
solid spear
I mean Id probably look to Korea tbh over Retzi the pool overlaps too much
and I love Retzi
balmy wolf
or toggle doesn't work with Genji
solid spear
him an Idd got pretty much identical hero pools
toxic yacht
I'd lose my fucking mind if I played on a team with him
toggle can help you with dashes 
and when swording
balmy wolf
Alicus at one point also said that a ladder Genji in KR is just the same as a ladder Genji in EU
so unless you shell out money for any proj in a pro KR team (which good fucking luck since even Alicus couldn't convinced them let their players go)
chances are you have to look for proj DPS elsewhere
and Seamoose called his old friend from Brazil
solid spear
Unless you go after Runaway guys not convinced they wont just all leave each other in the end tbh
toxic yacht
well
there is that one streamer
a projectile DPS
used to be very good back in the day
balmy wolf
"used to be"
toxic yacht
is still considered to be an excellent projectile player by a lot of pros
I think his name is like a bird
balmy wolf
implying that NRG actually amounted to anything when Seagull was playing
balmy wolf
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20757556304 also this thread
solid spear
well he doesnt wanna play 
balmy wolf
more like he doesn't want to play FOR NRG
he probably play for Kraft's team if he throw enough money at him
toxic yacht
streaming is legit the smartest decision he could have made
toxic yacht
lol
balmy wolf
Haksal's loyalty is with Runner though. Then again, that's what Kaiser said before C9 money caught up to him
NRG money ๐ค
toxic yacht
haksal can really only play mei, reaper, genji and zarya from what I gathered
his hero pool is all over the place and kinda sucks
balmy wolf
and Winston
toxic yacht
tbh
oh yeah
best winston on runaway
I forgot
his genji is just so fucking insane that it makes up for his weird-ass hero pool
solid spear
does Stitch have some hidden projectile talent 
toxic yacht
lol
pretty sure that runaway has no proper projectile dps
I mean, I'd assume that haksal can play other proj characters
but not like a dedicated one would
balmy wolf
Stitch could probably Buds
solid spear
Buds we saw play projectile since forever ago though
toxic yacht
ya
toxic yacht
he actually even played a bit of genji at the atlantic showdown
balmy wolf
up until when they trialed Talespin
toxic yacht
played pharah back in pharmercy
balmy wolf
He's played genji multiple times in the past
balmy wolf
Reaper is definitely his best hero
toxic yacht
ya
solid spear
he started playing more hitscan really only after Idd left
toxic yacht
more around the discord meta
pretty much almost exclusively played hitscan around the time
balmy wolf
can't remember the last time Buds played Genji except for Contenders these days but ok
solid spear
idk back on Nubris/Fnatic when I watched I saw him on Genji a ton
toxic yacht
nubris days definitely
balmy wolf
gotcha. Haven't rewatched those vods
Early fnatic and nubris is when he most played genji
toxic yacht
pretty sure that he was mostly projectile back then
but I didn't see too much of nubris
since I wasn't really into pro ow at the time
solid spear
I miss that team :/
toxic yacht
didn't they have id?
before getting iddqd?
that's like
the biggest meme
of all time
toxic yacht
brb checking
balmy wolf
some ancient history shit right here
solid spear
I thought it was like a similar thing with that team and like Twoeasy and Weunited
solid spear
they were looking like the 2nd best team in NA honestly before they died
toxic yacht
they fucking beat misfits
twice
misfits were regarded at the best EU team at the time
iirc
solid spear
well Misfits/Rogue/Reunited were very close and went back and forth
Creation was up there as well
they beat each other a lot
toxic yacht
kinda funny that all current members of rogue
were at takeover 1
and played each other
