got rekt
#esports-discussion
and 
blazing parrot
toxic yacht
Rogue overrated, smh
Lost against both apex finalists
Fucking trash garbage team
West is trash, KR superhuman overlords, amiright?
Best western team can't even beat KR T3
balmy wolf
supple nymph
does valve update CS:GO still?
supple nymph
did they put out ARG news articles for 4 months first?
balmy wolf
nope
not even putting out any hints
basically "here's a new operation"
everyone was like "uh....thanks?"
and then "holy shit thanks!"
versed sinew
new op after like a year and a half
balmy wolf
lose money on NIP vs C9?
wary falcon
lose $2k overall
won only on IMT against Virtus Pro because rule #1 is always bet against VP on non-major events
tilted af, gonna do some throwing4dafran on asian server
rapid oxide
Rule number one is not betting lol
wary falcon
nah it's fine i was able to build outside house
clever portal
@supple nymph what leak?
supple nymph
surefour joining nv
clever portal
Meme or did he sound serious
wary falcon
it's huge upgrade
supple nymph
he was chatting on discord with surefour
then he deleted the vod and shut down the stream for 15 mins
and afterwards said it was a troll
clever portal
I think the deletion shows it's real
balmy wolf
Surefour to while Taimou go to break? π€
solid spear
doesnt make a ton of sense
clever portal
They probably need hitscan
Assuming Gods is genji
Taimou claimed this was "troll"
If they want a flex player
Maybe Seagull/Mendo
balmy wolf
apparently Taimou is ripping on Winz and Tviq atm
clever portal
Any Chinese speakers here?
balmy wolf
you mean KR?
vestal ermine
Happy 4th of July from the Echo Fox discord, I know we don't have an Overwatch team, but I wanted to share from America today!
https://twitter.com/echofoxgg/status/882282168365580289
clever portal
I want to know if it shows match times
floral harness
Just watch the twitch clip from Taimou's stream
supple nymph
he deleted it
balmy wolf
@clever portal google translate?
supple nymph
if you use chrome it has translate built in too
clever portal
Okay I got it
So 14/15th is at 2pm
At 12 on 16th
For comparison 2pm is 8am EU
So some early games
balmy wolf
the only guy who will get some good watch time is @forest raven of all people
balmy wolf
and also Navi vs C9 triple OT ResidentSleeper
clever portal
Where does Draw live
rapid oxide
Seagull 
clever portal
Asia?
toxic yacht
australia
clever portal
We have LANs in Over... Oh wait 4Head
balmy wolf
next week is world cup at least
balmy wolf
@supple nymph 6th OT coming
supple nymph
6th ot should be RL paintball
clever portal
Any cap on OTs?
supple nymph
60th round
rapid oxide
CSGO 
clever portal
balmy wolf
what the fuck is this game
clever portal
supple nymph
throw
clever portal
supple nymph
π₯
supple nymph
i forgot what it feels like to watch a close game after watching so much OW
4-1s and 4-0s
supple nymph
wtf is happening on stream
clever portal
TFW when you don't have monkaGIGA emote 
balmy wolf
@balmy wolf May I ask where did you get those team logo emotes?
The O.W
Is that a discord
yes
naive plover
feral solar
i want esports emotes π¦
limber pine
solid spear
feral solar
GIMME 
balmy wolf
clever portal
There's someone called moon2SMUG
crisp lynx
For those who are curious, runaway released runner mirage kalios as player
balmy wolf
@crisp lynx runner and mirage are streaming for Runaway, arent they?
and new players will be in
crisp lynx
runner keeps his position as owner.
kalios has signing problem with wNv. he can be comeback after solving issue
mirage decide to focusing streaming, and is not runaway member anymore.
@balmy wolf yes, they was. but yesterday, runner said this in his stream
haksal, stitch, bumper, kox is remained yet
clever portal
I wonder who they'll bring in
wintry matrix
interesting that even KR orgs are reluctant
clever portal
Read the Reddit post translating a Korean caster
He said there are very few orgs
And that overwatch popularity will fall in Korea soon
If they don't make changes to meta/put more effort in
Apparently if you worked part time for a month, you would earn more than most players
copper bane
pubg will not be popular in korea
crisp lynx
Not yet. it has pc cafe issue with steam platform, optimization problems.
but it looks like ogn has tournament plan. and bluehole, kr company, made pubg. they signed MOU contract with ogn in early june.
If they are willing, they can have a good pc-bang share in their homeground.
And kongdoo PanCia vs kongdoo UnThera's event match will be today.
New member of kongdoo could play. 11:00 PM KST = 7:00 AM PDT
crisp lynx
@balmy wolf he write something like "I'm going on foreign team.", in inven, KR community in july 1. i saw that, but don't know any more of this.
crisp lynx
i don't know well. but imo, Selly and Agape had any noticeable contact both.
supple nymph
seagull playing lawbreakers 
https://www.twitch.tv/a_seagull
crisp lynx
It seems like overwatch.
supple nymph
i was thinking more quake champions
like... an exact duplicate?
i guess you can slide around and the maps are not all gothic whatever
crisp lynx
i don't know about quake well. but looks good. Because Nexon made it, so im not expecting it much.
F2P Games made by Nexon have a lot of balance collapsing elements. but it's B2P. π€
supple nymph
clever wagon
Nice moves, 
. Keep it up, proud of you SeemsGood
wintry matrix
i mean, that's just a contingent plan
clever wagon
Still means losing faith
wintry matrix
i think that there would uncertainty regardless, bliss can't predict metas, and OWL format seems like a gamble
copper bane
game needs a big shakeup
wintry matrix
this game is the growing pains stage, this period is/will be tough for the game
but once that passes (if it does) i predict everything will be fine
wintry matrix
i will start to get worried if next season they don't even attempt/talk about the rank/sr system
is tough to enter csgo?
rapid oxide
Mostly because you have to face cs veterans that played the game since 1.6
Effect can't get into it
Also kr cs is inexistent
And aim isn't everything on cs
wintry matrix
is there any big, relatively new team?
rapid oxide
I mean, he will bound on t2/t3 team with meh earnings
Pretty sure he will earn more if he stick on ow
Despite the scene being uncertain
No shit the scene is uncertain
People expect lol or valve level of stability
You CAN'T do it in one year
wintry matrix
yeah
especially CS which has years and years of advantage plus being pioneer in esports i think
rapid oxide
Unless you are cs faker, getting to the top tier is difficult
wary falcon
Not really
Especially in asian region
Plus old school players are not top tier now
Their prime time passed
rapid oxide
He won't do it anyway
wary falcon
To get to tier-2 cs you need a desire to play and improve
i can name you a few CIS players with tier-1 potential
who were just playing and then got picked up by bigger organisations
clever wagon
Jake just keeps on going with his posts
wary falcon
from my knowledge they don't have big salary like in T1 (10k-25k USD) but still decent around 2k
balmy wolf
nV probably will take EFFECT back to US
that'd guarantee some salary for at least a few months
and there's also Contenders this year
clever wagon
They better make good use of that S1 pass
balmy wolf
if Contenders told me anything
Kungarna and Renegades might be the one that going home the soonest
Liquid still needs time to solidify (lol) their roster but right now they are in middle of the pact
along with FNRGFE
balmy wolf
I'd say if Liquid import Selly or a KR hitscan in place of AZK though
they has a solid core to work with
AZK still hot and cold for tier 1
but Fury and Shadder are solid young talents to build around
clever wagon
It's hard to talk about Team Liquid like this
supple nymph
how much of our team can we replace with KR and get away with 
wary falcon
Meta is unhealthy
balmy wolf
Id rather they stick with AZK than import someone else
I dont want my favourite team to be ruined by imports
AZK is fine and can improve
supple nymph
omg racist
balmy wolf
Shadder is great at 76 so AZK doesnt need to play him
Its like SoOn and aKm just on a lower level
supple nymph
wary falcon
Can Azk play lucio?
balmy wolf
wary falcon
to replace winz on rogue
balmy wolf
k
AZK to me is unproven in term of being a tier 1 DPS
and you need a tier 1 DPS in order for the team to be tier 2 at least
Shadder is clearly the carry of the team atm, and right now AZK is playing around that a lot
but i wonder if there's better upgrade in KR or even EU
Easiest tracer to get would be Davin
solid spear
Idk if I think they really need to replace AZK but thats just me
balmy wolf
well he is doing well
but still inconsistent
so if they want to upgrade
he would be the first one that need to go
I hate that id's gone
He was so good 
clever wagon
He off to QC?
balmy wolf
He hasn't been playing because of QC
Idk if he's actually switching or what
He didn't do very well
He could just become a quake player under liquid
clever wagon
$1M prize pool's waiting, probably
balmy wolf
He might've just done it for easy money too idk
he flunked out of qualifier though
0-2
and his Pharah is better than Shadder
clever wagon
Huh
balmy wolf
Them running Shadder pharah in contenders leads me to believe ID isnt coming back
clever wagon
So much for "Overwatch surpassed LoL in Korea"
Fuck the forums, how about giving public response to the bigger figures such as these people
The pro players' concerns and shit
But oh no, ofc not
wintry matrix
i would like to know the reason for bliss secrecy in general, in some things i understand, but others seem weird
one thing for sure is that they aren't oblivious
balmy wolf
the whole project is so secret that they has a bunker for investors to keep public eyes out
like ok, how do this fucking works when you has to resort to that shit?
copper bane
league surpassed overwatch in korea again 6 months ago
clever wagon
"one thing for sure is that they aren't oblivious"
They sure aren't showing it
People in the pro scene over and over again expressed their concerns but no, events, cosmetics, nerf that one bitch and who knows next because fucking casuals are screaming in the forums. and new hero soonTM
Screw dev updates, give a response to THOSE PEOPLE.
wintry matrix
by oblivious i mean they are aware of the issues, but who knows how they deal with it, or if they see these issues in different magnitudes
btw, i said that before, but cosmetics and events are separeted from the rest, if anything they can only help (maaaaaaybe the new mode in events take man-hours, but they're cool)
clever wagon
The point of my beef is that they don't seem to be showing any attention to the people who actually deserve it
wintry matrix
eh, i dunno much they could say beyond what they said about OWL
maybe earlier?sure
but we don't know the internals, or how OWL came to be
i think the uncertainty now is more about stale meta shrinking playerbase which in turns doesn't help viewership
that and OWL being a gamble ofc
balmy wolf
this is why balancing for plebs are kind of damaging
because you need huge amount of time and data to make those decision
assumng they don't just balance based on what their English speaking fans said
because globally it is kind of small
no amount of talk will make me convinced otherwise because their patterns so far fit the way Blizzard has handle their games since forever
wintry matrix
i just think OW is hard to balance in general, like i said before, i don't wholly believe it's "for the plebs"
i mean, only thing similar to OW is TF2 (but having only 9 classes) and Paladins (which is it's own trainwreck)
i'd be interested in having these long-ass TF2 maps, but maybe they'd make some heroes too OP
balmy wolf
TF2's balance was shattered the moments they introduced hats and items
that completely broken the game as a whole
and like I noted, 90% of the player base are below diamond
if they are balancing for the 90%, they are balancing for plebs
solid spear
rn a pretty major balance patch is needed and balancing for anything but the top is dumb because ultimately lower ranks will just emulate what they see at higher level to at least some extent
the game is ridiculously stale, 2/3 of the cast is straight trash
balmy wolf
well, it is the condumdrum of the way they set up their roster
their defense heroes are mostly about area denial
the problem is that the mechanics with those heroes are inherently frustrated to play against
meanwhile, mobility is king in this game
but defense heroes are slow to counteract their area denial abilities while offensive heroes are all mobile folks
so......do the math, basically
it doesn't help that everytime a defense hero was in meta, EVERYTHING WENT TO SHITE
solid spear
yeah in this meta everything is so fast that stuff like positioning isnt even as important
wintry matrix
defense heroes are kinda niche heroes, most of them saw usage
hell, even junkrat was used once in a blue moon
balmy wolf
they are niche, no doubt
but people missed the point when they said "defense heroes need a buff"
last time I check nobody missed a Widow/Mei and Reaper/Bastion meta
and also dive right now can all fuck those characters up anyway
wintry matrix
it's like people saying ana dmg nerf was a mistake
solid spear
I mean doesnt help that Winston/D.Va invalidate like anything without high mobility
wintry matrix
it kinda sucks tho that bliss seems VERY, but VERY, reluctant on reverting changes
then again no one uses PTR so it's somewhat deserving
which btw, i think it's one of the things that difficults balance, the PTRs being desert
solid spear
no one uses PTR because theres no point to it
they claimed they would try more bold changes in PTR but that ended up being a straight up lie
solid spear
and they basically push out patches theyve already decided were going live anyway
as opposed to it being like an actual test for bigger changes like they said itd be
wintry matrix
no one uses PTR, so it's kinda expected to be bugs (also that some are harder to catch/fix)
although it's weird how every patch fucks the servers
solid spear
so its just hey heres a 2 week preview of the patch that is going live untouched
wintry matrix
but that's it, they can't properly test it without the PTR
i know there's no rewards, but still, i'd feel like it wouldn't hurt to play more there
like, out of love for the game
wintry matrix
because we like the game?
balmy wolf
I mean when the user base said that there's a lack of response in PTR in term of balancing, they said that "it is mostly for bug testing". Which of course turned off even more people that was willing to give it a shot
so has no one but themselves to blame when people are apathetic to it
solid spear
but whats the point in playing the PTR if they dont listen to feedback and have already decided the patch s going live as is
wintry matrix
not really, even before that
and wasn't that statement somewhat in the lines of "no one uses, so it's mostly bug testing"
solid spear
if they actually experimented in PTR like they said they would thered be more interest
wintry matrix
i mean, jeph said a lot of the times about PTR
solid spear
Like I dont care about lootboxes or whatever thats not why PTR is a waste of time
wintry matrix
i think they don't consider the PTR feedback because of the low population
balmy wolf
last time PTR was lively was when it was the only place where it has a competitive mode, and you has to go back to the end of season 1 for that shit
wintry matrix
which creates lopsided games
solid spear
if you want a higher population then try actually experimenting on the PTR no one wants to just bug test for hours on PTR
balmy wolf
and also their casual fanbase just use PTR as a preview build rather than actually playing the game. Good luck having any kind of feedback when all your games has 12 Symmetra doing their best Stev000 impression
so only the competitive players and the pros are the one that tried to have games on it. And Jeph has said that pros invited them to spectate
but it seems like they never really used it fully
"let's not use these people who are top of the top and play the game how it is suppose to play for balancing purpose, but let's instead use the plat and gold of the world because they are the most average"
wintry matrix
the feedback from them is the same wavelenght
just pick taimou for example on his demands
i do agree they need to experiment more
on PTR
balmy wolf
personally i'd favor coaches input over players
or at least, Yongbongtang or B1shop
over drunk Taimou
because their stake in the game is much less about "let me play my heroes"
and more about "how can we get more balanced game"
solid spear
Id rather them consider player feedback than bnet forums lul
wintry matrix
eh, i'd say they're equivalent
but yeah, coaches 99% are more insightful
tho most KR coaches are humble enough to admit they don't know much about game design
clever wagon
They don't seem like they care about Piggy mains' concerns on high ladder when it hit PTR either
He's busy with Valve, why would he bother @balmy wolf
clever wagon
"But muh PTR"
Man I'm slowly entering the point where I'm really reluctant to even open the game
And some dumb fuck in my comp game yesterday kept sticking to Reinhardt against dive and was just screaming at teammates to switch
One of the weirdest experiences I've ever had in the game
clever wagon
Uninstalled it when I heard that they put up some money schemes behind those passive ability cards too
wary falcon
And some dumb fuck in my comp game yesterday kept sticking to Reinhardt against dive and was just screaming at teammates to switch
I didn't see reinhardt for a long time
in my scrub games
wintry matrix
it sucks bad if you're new player
but i've been on and off since early beta, so i have fuck ton of currence to buy stuff for the characters i want
even in plat people are diving
i miss playing rein and having a chance to win
wary falcon
yeah, from my experience
everyone and their mothers with dogs are diving
on korean server
honestly, current meta is worst possible after meta-around-bastion
wintry matrix
at least the bastion meta generated some good memes
i remember seagull's stream titled "LIVE FROM THE OMNIC CRISIS" that always cracked me up
i do wonder if wouldn't be better if OW was a sleeper hit, rather than the blockbuster it is
tho maybe that could've made bliss give up on the game early
clever wagon
Naw naw, just wants the all the pies as a whole
The casuals, the eSports
They want it all
wintry matrix
who wouldn't?
btw, this idea seems really interesting: https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/comments/6lbc2l/effect_will_start_to_practice_csgo_because_of/djsle91/
clever wagon
Yeah, but I doubt catering both at the same level without any focus or priority is anywhere near sensible
That one's posted here already hours ago tbh
balmy wolf
its linked to a comment
balmy wolf
Dumb fuck of a country won't let me browse Reddit without a bypass such as VPN or DNSCrypt
Idk tbh about that
I kinda imagine ult usage is gonna be even more messy
Like
"Oh wait I can clutch here, let me pull another hero I used earlier that has an unused ult"
wintry matrix
i get that it would add a level of RNG, but it could be so exciting
clever wagon
Might make ult usage feel cheaper than they already are
wintry matrix
and the defending team would have in mind that
clever wagon
Instead of an exciting game changer
wintry matrix
i don't think if would feel cheaper, you wouldn't throw an ult
solid spear
Im against anything that makes ults more common in general
wintry matrix
for what the guys said, the ult charge is by points, so you couldn't farm a graviton by using tracer
wary falcon
by points?
wintry matrix
it would depend on the strategy
yeah, like, "graviton is 2000 points, pulse bomb is 500"
clever wagon
No you wouldn't throw, case in point is the scenario I made above.
wary falcon
Not really, graviton is rare
clever wagon
Different ult build values?
wary falcon
because it's hard for zarya to build
not because of high-cost
1875 if i'm not mistaken
clever wagon
I mean idk
wintry matrix
maybe with some adjustments to these numbers, but i'd still think it's very worth a try
wary falcon
because tracer's dps is more stable and higher than zarya
solid spear
Id be pretty against that change tbh...'
clever wagon
I'm assuming ult build rate is going to be adjusted too if we're going by that 2000 vs 500 example
Faster for the 2000
wintry matrix
the numbers i just threw in, i didn't know how much it actually was
clever wagon
I dunno
wary falcon
All blizzard needs is to hire people like SloathSquadron
wintry matrix
ofc theres people like Sombra and mercy that gain these points way faster than everyone
wary falcon
to balance this god damned game
because they are unable to do this
roadhog "fix"
w t f
clever wagon
If the point was to differ the rarity of different ults
wintry matrix
i think you're exxagerating a bit, don't forget what bliss got right
clever wagon
I don't see how it's that much different from what it is now
What did they get right?
wintry matrix
it's primarely to encourage swapping
i mean, lots of heroes
aside from bugs like dva, rein and genji ocasionally
clever wagon
I mean, sure it would encourage swapping
wintry matrix
like, we complain about dive, but the heroes themselves aren't broken
clever wagon
Because of how easy it would be to throw in ults from one hero to another
wintry matrix
maybe winston shield
wary falcon
winston is broken
wintry matrix
it's a choice of what ult, what hero to value
clever wagon
Ult management is a skill brought up by the penalty of losing ults upon hero swap (among others), I don't think losing that penalty would make anything better
wintry matrix
well, maybe it could be a lower ratio than 1:1
like, you have 1000 points, change, it becomes 700
and that's because Dota has been around for years
wary falcon
Dota always was shit-fest
with half heroes are not viable to play on high-level
now you can pick almost every hero and it will work
wintry matrix
we can only hope that people stick long enough to give a chance to things get fixed
i cannot imagine the stress that the team must have with the long-ass list of shit to do
clever wagon
We can only hope works fast enough because the parts of the playerbase that matter are already pretty concerned as it is
wintry matrix
i sure hope they don't think this can be fixed in minutes with two lines of code and a soda
like, i may seem like a bliss fanboy, but that's because i think game developing is hard af
clever wagon
No, but this dive shitfest has been running since some time after APEX S2 in which that period was regarded as the most diverse since launch
Then one way or another managed to crash and burn that stage of the meta
And then they pulled that Roadhog "rework" out of their asses
wintry matrix
it was around april-may i think
clever wagon
Or the fucking shithole that goes by the name of "official forums"
Infested with casual parasites who can only whine about getting OHK'd when it was mostly their fault
wintry matrix
honestly, rework or not, i don't think that would stop dive
clever wagon
Not by much, but it did delete Roadhog completely
wintry matrix
wasn't road not used at all before triple tank?
wary falcon
casual players always whine, it's not a reason to listen to them
wintry matrix
but mostly because of dive
wary falcon
in S2 Roadhog was hated hero
in ranked
because Rein+Zarya
and i had months of muted chat because i was main hog
wintry matrix
if that was true, Sym would be nerfed
clever wagon
Remember how NV still ran dive-Roadhog mix occasionally in APEX S3?
wary falcon
Silvers whine about SCAR and P90 in CS:GO
since beggining
idk why Blizzard still listen to forums
clever wagon
"muh PTR"
wary falcon
they need to get opinions from pro players
clever wagon
Unless they publicly respond to pros like Jake or Yongbongtang who have been the loudest and most thought out that we can see as the general public at least on their forums, if not a video response, I'm not buying it
wintry matrix
and btw, actually forums aren't that much regarded for feedback
i think there's other things to get from
i saw in a post of askagamedev
awesome tumblr btw
wary falcon
yeah IceFrog has skype and he discuss about game changes via skype
or ask players sometimes
clever wagon
They're still busy "muh PTR and forums" to me
wintry matrix
tbh most of the discussion i've seen is "dive 2 cancer" but when proposing solutions you see so much asinine shit
clever wagon
That's where people like Jake and Yongbongtang come in
wintry matrix
and i think they know that
clever wagon
If you see so much asinine shit, at least look at them
And respond to similar concerns explicitly
wintry matrix
i don't think they need to look at another "NERF DVA"
oh, i do agree bliss could be more open
clever wagon
Because I personally have lost any reason to believe that they do take in considerable amounts of suggestions from pros
wintry matrix
they take, there's literally not reason they wouldn't do
we just don't know how they factor in
because they're so secretive
clever wagon
Back to what I said earlier tbh
That's not a solid enough reason to even think they do
Because they haven't showed it at all since the meta took a nose dive and pros started showing actual concerns
wary falcon
This game has a lot of unhealthy abilities
Like d.va matrix and mercy rez
they are really hard to balance
ideally they shoudn't be in game
wintry matrix
i think it's because lots of feedback can be vague or too biased
like, in that post, yongbongtank just said "release more heroes" sounds simple eh?
and they could even do it
clever wagon
That's hardly his point
wintry matrix
i mean, as in possible solutions
wary falcon
more heroes will lead to even worse situation
wintry matrix
mostly he pointed out the problems (in an insightful way)
and then said to release more heroes
clever wagon
His point was if they were going to release heroes at this rate (~3 heroes a year), make them into something that can significantly shift the meta
Not shit like Orisa which pro scene just almost never consider to pick
wintry matrix
also that
wary falcon
Orisa is not shit
wintry matrix
i took it from there "Blizzard needs to introduce multiple heroes at once, and test them out on the PTR for a long period of time"
wary falcon
it was just meta that hates heroes like Rein and Orisa
wintry matrix
yeah, Orisa's been cucked by dive and pros not experiment with her
wary falcon
I think in tank-meta Orisa was top2 pick after ana
wintry matrix
i don't expecter her to become high usage tho
clever wagon
Point is, sync the meta and hero releases in a way that that new hero doesn't just instantly crash and burn in usage
wintry matrix
i think that's gonna happen regardless, every hero took a time to be used
solid spear
Just launch the character broken anything over what the games been lately 
wintry matrix
and they can't do that, the way they do heros take a long time, so they can't really sync
wary falcon
If they nerf winston
wintry matrix
you jest, but that actually could be come really shitty
wary falcon
Ana will gain popularity again
wintry matrix
like, just haphazardly releasing hero could easily backfire
wary falcon
Wondering about Blizzard steps
maybe they will rework soldier or pharah
π€
decrease rocket damage from 120 to 60 and add 1 more rocket to clip
balmy wolf
the fuck
wintry matrix
that would make her weapon more harmless than a stick
wary falcon
they did it to roadhog
wary falcon
Pharah's heavy damage was frustrasting for new players
wintry matrix
we don't need to exagerate
wary falcon
so we decided to rework her damage
now from 6 rockets * 120 dmg you will have 12 rockets * 60 dmg
wintry matrix
like, hook can work if road + another shoot at it
solid spear
Lol if you change it to 80 damage thats literally the hog nerf
Its hilarious how much they gimped that hero
wary falcon
Roadhog was always on the edge between ult-battery and one-shot-machine
wanton bronze
@solid spear never have to see roadhog in scrims though ππ»
solid spear
clever wagon
@wintry matrix That doesn't change the fact that good DPS mains don't fear a same-level Roadhog anymore
wary falcon
good dps mains?
clever wagon
When it was one of his focus pre-nerf
clever wagon
That's what I'm saying -_-
wary falcon
but you talked about good dps mains
clever wagon
Oh look
It's that time of the year again
Watch as people just casually forget the grave issues surrounding pro scene
(Well, not like those same people have ever been concerned with it to begin with anyway)
balmy wolf
Not when its another Orisa or Sombra
solid spear
Well yeah but the prospect of a new hero is a positive thing
balmy wolf
Not when they could just focus on making the current game better
Rather than adding yet another hero
to make it even more complicated
solid spear
I mean I'm never gonna argue against improving the current game especially with the way it is now...
Hopefully a new hero whenever it comes doesnt prevent them from doing that 
balmy wolf
They're terrible heroes
copper bane
no they aren't?
balmy wolf
added to the game and nothing but garbage pickrates for months
copper bane
especially not sombra, she is quite popular in pro games
balmy wolf
orisa is barely even picked in ranked
copper bane
orisa is not suitable for this meta right now
doesn't mean she's bad
and you're just wrong about sombra
she is fairly popular in pro games
solid spear
Eh Orisa is pretty bad meta nonwithstanding
balmy wolf
yeah wow amazing 10% usage or something
copper bane
so what if a hero is not top 6 it's useless garbage trash?
balmy wolf
7 months after release and she's finally in the double digits
balmy wolf
copper bane
if you're going to make a statement at least back it up with evidence
clever wagon
... really?
copper bane
sombra isn't overpowered or must pick or anything but she is fairly popular in pro games
especially on certain maps like temple of anubis
saying she is a 'terrible hero' is just factually incorrect
clever wagon
Yes, yes, most of us here watched APEX, Contenders, TakeOver and whatnot
solid spear
What Polo is saying is that it took multiple buffs and many months for Sombra to even become semi relevant and for Orisa in her current state itll probably be even worse
copper bane
is that a problem?
clever wagon
And even when she's relevant she gets 2 ults in one fight so lol
... That is a problem
copper bane
why?
solid spear
Id say its not good if heros come out and are irrelevant
clever wagon
It shows how good Blizz is with their heroes
solid spear
Granted a lot of stuff is irrelevant rn lul
clever wagon
You know what
copper bane
there was some slight tuning on sombra, it wasn't a drastic change or anything
copper bane
which patch are you referring to?
clever wagon
... Did you even follow the patches lul
copper bane
you mean time to hack a target?
solid spear
Hack got a 33% cd reduction, 20% faster cast time and she got a 33% translocator cd reduction
copper bane
exactly, slight number tweaks
solid spear
Those arent slight lol
copper bane
well when you say it like '20%' '33%' it sounds more than it is
clever wagon
That's huge considering people can react and stop Sombra's hack in less than a second
copper bane
time to hack a target went from 1s to 0.8s, thats not big lol
translocator cd change doesn't really change much
hack cd is the biggest one
clever wagon
It literally took less than 1 second to do a 360 check and breathe in her direction to stop her hacking
copper bane
there are barely any situations in which sombra is able to hack a target in 0.8s but not in 1s
it is a slight change
clever wagon
Not when that's what it took for her to finally see a double digit pick rate
Esp in pro scene
copper bane
combined with other changes
as i said the hack cd change was the biggest change
if that was the only change and the time to hack was left alone it wouldn't have made much of a difference
heroes don't only get more and less popular as a result of balance changes, what the meta is like and how long teams have practiced with the hero are big factors too
clever wagon
... The meta is affected by the balance changes
Especially in this glorified game
And how it has been since its release
Weird logic there
At least, balance changes affects everything heavier
And quicker
And surprise, basically nobody find heroes like Orisa and current Hog that useful anymore
If anything, nowhere near "normally viable"
Outside of very few select situations, or stupidly enough, when the opponent is too dumb to deal with them
copper bane
ok you're the smartest overwatch player to ever exist, why did i even bother starting this conversation
copper bane
i don't have anything else to say, bye : )
clever wagon
Or how Sombra is popular for anything other than her busted EMP
Good, don't come here again, dumb fuck
copper bane
ironic
clever wagon
I'm not the one who resorted to insults first anyway
copper bane
?
what insult?
unless you think being sarcastic is insulting and that calling someone a 'dumb fuck' is an appropriate response
clever portal
I feel like Sombra is a bit like Mei
The hacks/emp are like ice wall/blizzard
Where they confuse teams for a few months
balmy wolf
She's mei in the way that
clever portal
And you see a few carrying
balmy wolf
she's repeating what happened with mei months ago
clever portal
Yeah, ult every fight
balmy wolf
picked very very rarely and then suddenly goes up in pickrate because her ult charges crazy fucking fast
clever portal
IMO teams will get much better at playing around hacks/emp
balmy wolf
After Apex, Contenders and the WC groups she'll be nerfed
clever portal
Like wall/blizzard
balmy wolf
Everyone is just going to keep using her
and that usage will get exposure through the tournaments and her pickrate will go up in ranked aswell
and then she'll be nerfed
clever portal
First her pick rate needs to go up though
Too many people will cry if she gets nerfed with low pickrate
balmy wolf
the last meta report was the 2nd last week of june
she's been used a lot more since
14% then
probably 30% now
maybe even more honestly
clever wagon
She's basically "abused" in the situations she's picked
rapid oxide
Based on polo logic
clever wagon
Because of EMP
rapid oxide
Every hero is shit except Lucio
balmy wolf
balmy wolf
yeah man looking at the top 10 even
so much tracer
the top 3 have the same heroes
tracer #1
clever portal
clever wagon
HOIYA
rapid oxide
Pulse bomb charge fast yes
But it's high risk high reward
ESCA LUL born for a reason
clever portal
There's no risk
clever portal
At worst you waste the bomb and charge it up in a minute again
rapid oxide
Not even effect can do it all the time
clever portal
You don't go all in in the tracer getting a bomb
She can just 2 clip the supports/dps
Bomb kills are just an extra
clever wagon
Zoning pulse bomb
clever portal
Getting the kills is great though
rapid oxide
Tracer is not the probelm
clever portal
The problem is winston
rapid oxide
She doesn't have a good counter
clever wagon
Roadhog must have had no counters in Blizz and forums' eyes, that's why they nerf him
rapid oxide
Lucio generally everytime
Because fuck speedboost
Must pick
I hate must pick
Lucio shrink even more the lower healers we have
Because 1 spot is taken by him
clever portal
If you delete speed boost they would cry
clever portal
He would still be must pick for aoe heal
clever wagon
But nobody does AOE heal, won't he still be picked if it's buffed
clever wagon
DAE DED GAEM?
clever portal
Time to watch my boys VP get eliminated soon
clever portal
Yeah, cs
clever wagon
Oh?
Lol
Well
I was hoping those orgs from CS and DOTA would also invest in OW before they announced OWL
Thanks for crashing it,
clever portal
Loser of Heroic and VP eliminated
clever wagon
Not only they made OWL city-based, but they're also making everything look as bleak as it could
Never have my hopes been made to suck a dick dicks this hard
And OW is... or was the first eSport I was really invested in to
clever portal
Same here
I started watching cs though
Get to see some actual tournaments
Both these teams look okay (talon and detonator)
Talon looks better though
clever wagon
Too late for me to invest in CS
Add in the broadcast hours too
With OW I have... or had the incentive of learning as the scene grows... or was growing
But look at it now
Β―_(γ)_/Β―
clever portal
Taimou streaming cs 
copper bane
overwatch is dead game 
clever portal
feral solar
not a good time to to stream cs when a tournament is on but i dont think he cares about the number of viewers
clever wagon
Looool
clever portal
Taimou said he won't be streaming much overwatch 
clever portal
Till they introduce a new meta it will be cs and quake stream
clever wagon
I'll watch their CS games
vestal mortar
I won't :c
clever portal
He's talking about what he wants from Overwatch balance now
feral solar
i like cs too much to not be biased in this discussion lol
balmy wolf
s1 was lit
toxic yacht
watching taimou on that one aim map that we all have downloaded
I must say
He has good aim
clever wagon
@vestal mortar what if Jehong moves over too 
clever portal
But he was a streamer right?
toxic yacht
they do play cs, it's just not super popular over there
pretty sure that it also wasn't sudden attack 2
clever wagon
They do play CS but it's just not a big eSport thing there
Don't think it's absolute 0
Doesn't EscA himself have CS in his CV?
Nvm, already said above
clever wagon
Anyway
OGN already built like what, 3 seasons and upcoming 4th of APEX
Popularity of the game itself in Korea is single handedly ruined by Blizzard
clever portal
Btw, VP EleGiggle
feral solar
pine star
@balmy wolf seriously?
toxic yacht
inb4 kariv fucks them up with widow again
toxic yacht
Trans is an ability with a 30 second cooldown for him, lul
pine star
Pretty much
I noticed a lot of Genjis just giving up chasing him sometimes
Particularly Shadder in Hollywood iirc
toxic yacht
Also, Agilities hit a pulse bomb on zza's Pharah
balmy wolf
xQC the other day on r/compow claimed that he found a way to neutralized Kariv
which is interesting when you remember YIKES draw them later in Contenders during the second round robin
so clearly Kariv is an important clog in the machine in the same manners as Unkoee
pine star
I mean
He one shots Tracers in the head so consistently you're just scared of being near him
balmy wolf
same deal with Unkoeee
LegitRC at one point also said that Unkoee's 1v1 ability was unreal
pine star
They're scary af
I'm so curious of how Flash Wolves will perform against the rest of the world
balmy wolf
World Cup is their chance
pine star
Yeah
balmy wolf
tfw 
kill team πΊπΈ
pine star
Namely synergy
balmy wolf
Team USA's picks are just poor tbh
@crisp lynx American members of IMT wasn't good enough
π¨π¦
honestly though
team USA is half made up of players that didn't make Contenders S1
Sinatraa/JAKE/Adam
pine star
Adam apparently is one of the best shot callers in NA
balmy wolf
"best supports"
pine star
But one can't never know for sure with shot callers
fitting
balmy wolf
still only half awake
but still, points still remain
C9's shotcalling structure and Adam's supposed prowess on shotcalling is kind of confusing when you realized that C9 did C9 for a reason
pine star
We as audience can never truly know if a bad play was because of bad callings or because of team not properly following calls
crisp lynx
It's likely to be SchrΓΆdinger's cat.
until we know the truth, all possibilities are open.
crisp lynx
i think FW is 1st. but team usa could win ro16 vs england/german.
balmy wolf
Team USA's deficiency on DPS and somewhat unevent tank/support line will be the weakness
JAKE/Sinatraa is just tier 2 DPS
while Fctfic and Rawkus is kind of a pair of weird pick
pine star
I consider Sinatraa maybe bottom to mid in tier 1 all things considered
balmy wolf
can't be tier one without any LAN experience
pine star
He already has lan experience 
toxic yacht
well, mendo is the one who c9'd the first two times
so we can't really blame adam, those were individual mistakes that he made
the time on volskaya is a bit π€ though
one of them should have sacrificed themselves and died to the dva mech on point, then c9 would have capped and won the map
that can probably be blamed on calling
I forgot who is to blame for the other c9s that they pulled
but these days pretty much every team c9s, I don't know
lol
clever portal
clever wagon
I mean dad Boombox
You're just playing her for 1 hour with a fresh account
It's like how that pasta goes
"I'm actually better than <pro player> he has higher SR just because he plays more than I do"
Can someone hand over that pasta
I want to reply to Boombox or you can just do it haha
clever wagon
When you joined a Discord for a game whose creative director himself joined and announces important stuff
(PUBG)
And then there's OW
copper bane
when overwatch is a million times better than pubg
copper bane
we have developers posting on forums, social media and making developer updates
clever wagon
At least they show that they care
balmy wolf
but Jeph post on battle.net every blue moons though
copper bane
if you're gonna complain about lack of community interaction overwatch is one of the worst examples you could pick
balmy wolf
stop using Android you fuck
clever portal
The Kongdoo show match happening now
clever wagon
the Pancia vs Unthera thing?
clever portal
Yeah
clever wagon
What is it actually, a mix and match of both rosters?
clever portal
Apparently Panker and Fissure are on the same team
rapid oxide
lol
if you seriously complain about community stuff
you never being in a videogame that promised content for 4 years
and delivered 0 patch in 4 year
and had zero to none support
despite admin came every 6 month and telling us "stuff will coming soon"
rapid oxide
you guys never waited for something more than 4 years
toxic yacht
better than tf2 players though
rapid oxide
so dont complain if they dont say the stuff you want to hear in less than a bunch of months
clever portal
Release heroes now BabyRage
clever wagon
Funny when something so bullshit becomes the standard of being able to make a complaint though
balmy wolf
by the way
remember the post where coach of LH said Blizzard is bringing out another mode?
clever portal
TBH I would be happy if they never released anymore maps
balmy wolf
that actually aligned nicely to the leak a few weeks ago
rapid oxide
alteast not now
clever portal
Infinite map pool is aids
rapid oxide
clever wagon
And my complaints weren't at all related to the state of the pro scene when I've only been bringing up how most of Blizz's balancing decisions seem to disregard pros' concerns?
balmy wolf
Doomfist is hinted as having Tracer like ability and Reinhardt's charge mixed to it
so if anyone thought that he is going to be a counter dive hero
clever portal
That was a 4chan leak
rapid oxide
mccree and reaper were pro concerns too
they buffed them
hog was cuz of shitty plats pleb
balmy wolf
@clever portal and it seems like the leak just got more credible
rapid oxide
cmon dude
clever wagon
yada yada
rapid oxide
its like we have dive meta since 123123 years already