he goona kill it
#lore-discussion
steel girder
it could be the ai that ran the factory
proud pike
Oh
steel girder
or it could be what keeps omnics running
because
a dev said the tresure does not belong to him
soo
proud pike
....
steel girder
it belongs to the omnic race
swift mason
So basically the story of junkenstine could allude to the treasure that Junkrat is holding on to, some sort of life source, like a source code
proud pike
Still dont understand
steel girder
okay recap
In junkestiens revange junk gets the sercret to life
what if that was nodding to him haveing the secret to omnic life
proud pike
We were talking about someone sabotaging Omnica Corp. Someone who needs the Omnic revolution, then what?
steel girder
nooo
we are talkig about junks treausre
So anyways
junkrat went to afactory and found something in the heart of it
btu
proud pike
I think we're just getting to the bottom of completely random details, lol
swift mason
Not a bad theory, but we can't be too sure that it's true
steel girder
why would it be protected from a nuke blast if it wasnt important
and the dev said
the tresure is not his
thats because
it belongs to the omnic race
and not the humans
proud pike
hmmm
terse oar
Source?
steel girder
myself
proud pike
So the treasure is A.I code?
steel girder
i think so
swift mason
Not bad waluigi, you'd make an okay theorist
steel girder
it would make sense
steel girder
because if its not his
proud pike
So they dont need AI code
steel girder
the source the original code
proud pike
So, who created this AI code?
terse oar
It’s a decent theory, but it’s important to remember that the story of Junkenstein does not completely parallel the real story
proud pike
sry
steel girder
is what could kill them all
because the life belongs to them
and it doesnt belong to junkrat
proud pike
I wish I could send pictures - I really want to draw a diagram
steel girder
same
terse oar
Him having an AI code wouldn’t let him kill omnics
steel girder
no
not an ai code
the sorce code
what all omnics are built on
what gives them thier them
terse oar
Yes, but he wouldn’t be able to kill them with it
steel girder
yes
proud pike
But let's think about the whole world, not just Australia. Who uploaded AI to omnics?
terse oar
Liao helped program the omnics
woeful obsidian
UR OVERTHINKING IT AND ITS SCARY
steel girder
im sry
proud pike
UR OVERTHINKING IT AND ITS SCARY
@woeful obsidian shitpost, bro
woeful obsidian
no i like this
steel girder
so
woeful obsidian
so
proud pike
Who uploaded AI to omnics?
swift mason
I like this theory, i'll keep it in mind when we know more about Junk and his treasures
proud pike
Omnica are not idiots to do this
terse oar
Liao helped program the omnics @proud pike
woeful obsidian
whos liao
terse oar
One of the founding members of OW, the creator of Echo
steel girder
yes
proud pike
Omnics - servants. Why do servants need free thoughts and feelings?
steel girder
she died tho
woeful obsidian
i honestly had no clue the story was so
terse oar
Yes
steel girder
its her personallity in echo
woeful obsidian
like detailed
swift mason
That's ok
terse oar
I highly recommend looking at things
steel girder
who
terse oar
The lore is very good
swift mason
Overwatch lore is cool (imo)
steel girder
yes
woeful obsidian
i literally only watched the stories if characters thats abt it
steel girder
but its not straight
woeful obsidian
of*
proud pike
The dialogue turned to mush...
steel girder
so we use the clues we have'
woeful obsidian
mmm
proud pike
I have a very stupid but brain-blowing theory
steel girder
do u want me to explain the theroy i just went over nova
woeful obsidian
sure
terse oar
An Omnium
steel girder
And in junkenstiens reveange
terse oar
To be specific
proud pike
What if Reyes sabotaged Omnica Corp and added AI to omnics himself. Knowing that the omnics will revolt, and he will be appointed leader of the suppression of the rebellion (which technically happened)
steel girder
they are nodding to him getting the secret to omnic life
terse oar
It’s a decent theory, but it’s important to remember that Junkenstein does not 100% parallel the real story
steel girder
and that treasure survied a reactor blast so it means that it was very important
and it was in the heart of the omium
so maybe it could function without it
couldnt
steel girder
So to wrap it all up
th treasure cold be source code
but it doesnt blong to him as a dev said
it belongs to the omnic race
because its thier life source
steel girder
lemme check
proud pike
Sum up:
People in 2070-2080 are stupid idiots who repeat the mistakes of the past and give the servants artificial intelligence. And JK - found a safe with AI codes for Omnics, which is the source of their life. Did I miss anything?
proud pike
Jeff mb
proud pike
Or Michael
terse oar
It’s good to be certain
proud pike
and why would that be a lie
@steel girder Hey
terse oar
Many people fall for fake sources (cough, the forums, cough)
proud pike
Did i miss anything in sum ups?
I think we're just looking for details that aren't there.
I don't think that a hero shooter has such a well-thought-out story
terse oar
Then why are you in this channel?
proud pike
lmao
Dude, I've been telling you for an hour that the artificial intelligence omnics got is not from omnica corp, but from someone else. As a result, we come to JK and start taking into account the usual event, which has nothing to do with the plot, in which JK just looks like a mad scientist.
And you're looking for logic here?
steel girder
anyways
proud pike
Then why are you in this channel?
@terse oar So, i have same question for u
steel girder
i couldnt find it but i could have sworn i heard it from a good sourcw
terse oar
Because I enjoy the lore
proud pike
.....
steel girder
same
proud pike
The history of OW is very sparse. As soon as some interesting and deep question is raised, the answer to it is 95% likely to be "It just works"
steel girder
yes
terse oar
Dude, I've been telling you for an hour that the artificial intelligence omnics got is not from omnica corp, but from someone else. As a result, we come to JK and start taking into account the usual event, which has nothing to do with the plot, in which JK just looks like a mad scientist.
The omnic programming is mainly done by Dr. Liao
Or “was” should I say...
proud pike
That you're stuck with this Dr Liao. She has superiors who understand that servants DON't need AI
Or are you saying that Dr Liao added omnics self-awareness herself?
steel girder
yes it dosent have anything to do with the actual plot
but is could nod toward something in the actual plot
terse oar
Yes, while your theory is not 100% failsafe, it is still a decent one
It could be learned in the future, maybe in OW2
steel girder
yes
proud pike
Bro, answer my question
are you saying that Dr Liao added omnics self-awareness herself?
steel girder
it does make sense
terse oar
Liao was the superior bruh
steel girder
but its prroablly 80 percent fail safe
terse oar
So technically, yes, she did add self awareness
proud pike
...........
terse oar
........
proud pike
We think soberly. Omnica corp creates servants who will not complain, but will only follow their orders. They would not add artificial intelligence to omnics, because it is very expensive and pointless. It is also logical that this would lead to a revolution. So the omnics ' self-awareness came from someone else. Who could benefit from the omnics revolution? Talon?
@proud pike
Servants(!)
Omnic = Servant (in main idea)
Why do they need feelings?
terse oar
The omnic AI was constantly improving and evolving, which is what led to their self awareness
proud pike
The omnic AI was constantly improving and evolving, which is what led to their self awareness
@terse oar ....
steel girder
that a good point comma
terse oar
They were made to serve the economy, so they kinda do
proud pike
Bro
steel girder
who gave them the blueprints to be weapons?
cerulean ice
nah it still doesnt make sense
steel girder
like think about that
terse oar
I did
steel girder
i know they can modify themselves
proud pike
Servants DON't need AI
terse oar
The Omniums militarized the omnics @steel girder
steel girder
but they went to something totally different
cerulean ice
- omnics basically just weapons so having "feelings" arent necessary
oh wait
bastion
yh exolain that blizord
steel girder
didnt he devolp them himself
cerulean ice
..
proud pike
yh exolain that blizord
@cerulean ice bad sarcasm
steel girder
like that is only logical explamation
steel girder
like he wokr up
terse oar
We don’t know exactly what caused Bastion to act like he does, but it is most likely a bug in his programming caused by his dormancy
cerulean ice
how does that make sense to you
steel girder
then gets feelings like what the heck
proud pike
Yes
cerulean ice
i dont understand why he had to be given ptsd and a caring nature
thats the problem
proud pike
i dont understand why he had to be given ptsd and a caring nature
@cerulean ice SAME!
Finally!
steel girder
that u bring a emp on kings row
cerulean ice
??
steel girder
to all the omnics in there
proud pike
Someone foocking understand me!
terse oar
He was inactive for ~10 years, causing bugs in his programming
steel girder
i get what ur saying
cerulean ice
i said that earlier but yh go on
steel girder
but like i dont get some of it
cerulean ice
He was inactive for ~10 years, causing bugs in his programming
@terse oar ?
terse oar
Which is what led to his emotions
proud pike
He was inactive for ~10 years, causing bugs in his programming
@terse oar bro
Cringe
Write a program "a=b"
steel girder
yes i guess
cerulean ice
when was bugs mentioned
proud pike
The program is not equal to the brain
steel girder
i dont understand how
being asleep makes him understand shit
like there is nothingin nature
proud pike
The bug can only be embedded initially, during development. Who developed the omnics brain? Dr Liao!
waxen flower
Lmao
proud pike
So technically she is the main reason of "Omnic Crisis"
proud pike
Bingo
steel girder
well this has been intresting
proud pike
She knew that adding self - awareness to the servants would lead to a rebellion.
She knew that she might not add intelligence to them, but she still added it.
Dr. Liao - is a reason for the crisis
proud pike
So
steel girder
mecree was supposed to protect her
cerulean ice
what gave u that idea
steel girder
who me
proud pike
So... Echo is main villian?
random pilot
Um
cerulean ice
who else
random pilot
I dont know about that 1
cerulean ice
what
proud pike
Although it seems to me that this is another hole in the plot, which we will not learn anything about.
cerulean ice
its still not fleshed out since theyre just kinda throwing random plots everywhere
but we have tracer comic now
clear nest
Liao died?
cerulean ice
yes
proud pike
to be honest, lore at "OW" is very bland... most of the details are simply overlooked and sometimes due to a few illogical moments, we get the fact that Dr. Liao is either a villain or an idiot.
cerulean ice
yes, hence bland
iron plume
we get the fact that Dr. Liao is either a villain or an idiot.
...how?
steel girder
because she appently gave omnics self awareness
iron plume
Omnics weren't built with sentience, they gained it after
proud pike
Aaaaaaaaa
proud pike
They CANT do it
iron plume
And also maybe they wouldn't do this even after getting sentience if they weren't treated like shit
steel girder
it just ended party why
iron plume
but that's apparently a difficult concept for some people
iron plume
Because it's a dumbass take
steel girder
u want to hear my take on junkrats treasure
proud pike
Program NOT = brain
steel girder
its a crackpot theory tho
iron plume
Firstly, overwatch is not reality
proud pike
Firstly, overwatch is not reality
@iron plume bad argument
cerulean ice
yes, everyone is aware
iron plume
Second, even in reality we have self-advancing algorithms
proud pike
Second, even in reality we have self-advancing algorithms
@iron plume ...
cerulean ice
how would this apply
iron plume
unless you believe there's something inherent yet indeterminable about humans that gives them sapience, a robot can gain it
cerulean ice
is it because were assuming we dont know how ai works?
iron plume
also stop pinging me
proud pike
and you know that this algorithm can't appear on its own, right?
lament prawn
the take was stupid from the start but im honestly tired of all the stupid takes in this channel so im not gonna bother to argue anymore
proud pike
The program (a = b) will not gain intelligence, believe me
iron plume
Self-learning algorithms? No, they have to be made from the start
But guess what we're already making those
So unless you propose that everyone who works in any sort of AI development is an idiot who dooms the human race, I don't see your point about Liao
proud pike
why does a servant need an SLP?
iron plume
to serve better
steel girder
bruh
proud pike
Bruh
steel girder
good point
cerulean ice
serve better?
proud pike
have you ever heard of serfdom?
iron plume
humans are notoriously shit at writing algorithms that deal with real world interaction
because that is fucking hard
motion
vision
all of those are based on self-learning algorithms
right now
cerulean ice
Firstly, overwatch is not reality
iron plume
How would a servant fetch you a drink if you can't program into them what a glass is
proud pike
dude, don't talk nonsense, an insensitive robot serves better than one that demands its rights
iron plume
They didn't program demanding rights into the omnics
proud pike
.....
have you heard about the difference between limited AI and full AI?
The servant doesn't need FULL(!) AI
iron plume
Have you heard anything about it aside from clickbait headlines
steel girder
intresting
steel girder
anyways
proud pike
you're contradicting yourself, you know that?
steel girder
ok
iron plume
I don't apparently
steel girder
well
iron plume
How am I contradicting myself
steel girder
anyways
iron plume
please do explain in as much detail as possible
steel girder
here is a crackpot theory
proud pike
I explained everything above.
steel girder
Junkrat has treasure right
iron plume
So that's a no then
proud pike
Lmao
steel girder
and in junkenstiens revange he gets the secret to life
cerulean ice
i mean i can understand what youre saying but i doubt it
besides im not interested in the treasure theory imo
steel girder
i think that it nods toward the actual plot seince junkentiens revange is not plot
proud pike
I ask you to stop talking nonsense and carefully read everything I wrote above (for PM2)
steel girder
but it nods toward
iron plume
I have
which is why I'm saying what I'm saying
Whereas you are just going in circles
steel girder
im just gonna sit here and wait
proud pike
a servant DOESN'T need a full AI
And Dr Liao added it! Thus repeated 15-18 centuries. Namely, the slave revolts. She knew that adding full ai would lead to this, but she added it anyway.
iron plume
I'd ask you how you think an AI works but I get the sense I'll just get more insults
proud pike
Omg
lament prawn
@limpid agate save us
cerulean ice
i imagined she had a more optimistic character so she didnt rlly care about that self aware ais would actually cause war
proud pike
Look, AI expert here
lament prawn
right
proud pike
i imagined she had a more optimistic character so she didnt rlly care about that self aware ais would actually cause war
@cerulean ice but omnic is ''thing''
Thing, that u can buy
Sell
Or break
cerulean ice
idk ask her lmao 🤷
proud pike
Slave = thing too
iron plume
uh
proud pike
(In 15-18 cntr)
So u can buy it
Se it
Sell* it
Etc
a program that is not able to self-learn, will not learn on their own
But she added this ''Free-self-learn function''
iron plume
A program that is not able to self-learn is a terrible program for any real life interaction
Even things like discerning voice commands
They were absolutely shit before self-learning
cerulean ice
no, its pretty terrible
iron plume
And a full servant would need a general AI, as opposed to a specific one
Because a specific one is able to do One Thing
and not One Thing as in "be a servant"
cerulean ice
depending on how u define "self learn" then pls do
iron plume
but as in "determine whether an object is a car or not"
proud pike
A program that is not able to self-learn is a terrible program for any real life interaction
@iron plume there is no difference between a human slave and an omnic slave with full ai. So she knew there would be mass uprisings
iron plume
So yes you would need a "full" AI for anything resembling the Omnics
She didn't build them with sapience
steel girder
bruh
proud pike
Bruh
iron plume
Was it an oversight? Maybe
But no she didn't, and likely couldn't, know there would be mass uprisings
iron plume
Again
proud pike
People slaves were doing uprisings
iron plume
No
proud pike
Again, yes
iron plume
General AI does not equal sapience
clear nest
the omnics weren’t built to be slaves?
iron plume
"Full" AI is not a thing
clear nest
Although I guess it depends on the person
proud pike
in short, I'm already tired, it's like throwing peas against a wall, hoping to break it. Let's put this in another "plot hole"
Okay?
iron plume
Let's put this in "you're wrong about this" instead
clear nest
iron plume
Good, settled then
clear nest
this is so stupid
proud pike
this is so stupid
@clear nest dude, I offered to end this dispute peacefully, but was refused
proud pike
Nope
iron plume
You dont understand the meaning of ''No'', right
lament prawn
actually his offer was reliant on calling something he doesnt understand a "plothole"
lament prawn
basically
proud pike
I'm just tired of trying to prove something to someone who will still be stubborn as a sheep
clear nest
what are you even trying to prove
lament prawn
your point was that self learning ai is a "plothole" even when we're doing self learning ai irl
clear nest
that Liao was an idiot?
proud pike
actually his offer was reliant on calling something he doesnt understand a "plothole"
@lament prawn why don't I understand? Since you are so "all-knowing", explain to me why she added full ai to omnics?
what are you even trying to prove
@clear nest that adding self - awareness to slaves is a bad idea
clear nest
“Artificial general intelligence is the hypothetical intelligence of a machine that has the capacity to understand or learn any intellectual task that a human being can”
iron plume
ooh busting out the wiki, shit getting spicy now
proud pike
True
iron plume
Note how it doesn't include consciousness
proud pike
Lmao
steel girder
are u guys done?
proud pike
dude, what's wrong with you? I understand, I'm arguing with you. but this guy just posted an excerpt from Wikipedia and you started shitting on him
For.... What?
iron plume
I didn't?
I appreciate that he posted that, because if you weren't arguing from conclusion, it would've helped you understand something
But alas
cerulean ice
what
iron plume
General AI is not the same thing as a conscious AI
cerulean ice
yes?
iron plume
When they were made, and pre-"awakening" they were the former but not the latter
Liao didn't make them conscious
proud pike
Liao didn't make them conscious
@iron plume however they did it, understandable, have a great day
iron plume
Glad we agree then
proud pike
No
iron plume
Glad you're done then
cerulean ice
oh dear
proud pike
dude, your post-irony sucks
iron plume
I don't think that word means what you think it means
proud pike
I don't think that word means what you think it means
@iron plume so explain it to me! Oh! the highest supermind, what exactly is "post-irony"?
iron plume
Nah I'm good
limpid agate
What's this about
iron plume
This guy doesn't understand that general AI isn't the same thing as consciousness and calls Liao stupid because of it
lament prawn
liao putting self-learning AI in omnics is a "plothole"
iron plume
also a lot of consicuous slavery mentions
proud pike
another pointless argument about one thing not explained in the lore
iron plume
well we agree on the first part there
limpid agate
What is the thing but explained, specifically
proud pike
This guy doesn't understand that general AI isn't the same thing as consciousness and calls Liao stupid because of it
@iron plume dont talk nonsense
proud pike
Why?
limpid agate
Just say what your point is and stop arguing
cerulean ice
lmao
limpid agate
@clever silo Stop that
clever silo
@proud pike find being pinged a little annoying
steel girder
is it over
steel girder
can i talk again
cerulean ice
immature
proud pike
@proud pike find being pinged a little annoying
@clever silo yes
iron plume
Proves the point though, doesn't it
proud pike
@proud pike find being pinged a little annoying
@clever silo i
limpid agate
@proud pike Stop that
limpid agate
Just say what your point is and stop arguing
cerulean ice
disagreement, lack of understanding, ignorance?
clear nest
limpid agate
If you have nothing useful to say, don't say anything at all@clear nest@cerulean ice
unborn owl
oh boy, the hell happening up in here
cerulean ice
trying, well im not being specific
proud pike
initially, omnics were conceived as slaves. is that so? it is. What can a slave do with self-awareness? Right! Rise up with other slaves! So you don't need to give the slave robot self - awareness? Right? Right! Why? Because he will also rise up! But Dr Liao doesn't think so! Of course, a robot with self-awareness will get used to the life of a slave!
limpid agate
Again, what's your point
peak escarp
but Liao didn't give omnics self awareness, they developed it on their own
proud pike
but Liao didn't give omnics self awareness, they developed it on their own
@peak escarp but she gave them a way. self-study will sooner or later lead to self-awareness
cerulean ice
you can give them self awareness rather than developing it beforehand
unborn owl
The reason omnics in Overwatch are self-aware is because Blizzard wanted a conflict between self-aware robots and humans. That's the reality that underpins the lore's conceit.
cerulean ice
err wait
limpid agate
What Liao did was she created thr Omniums, which were self-improving factories that made omnics.
proud pike
The reason omnics in Overwatch are self-aware is because Blizzard wanted a conflict between self-aware robots and humans. That's the reality that underpins the lore's conceit.
@unborn owl true
iron plume
well from the story perspective obviously lol
limpid agate
She didn't create the omnics themselves.
iron plume
in-universe, they developed it after they were already produced
limpid agate
She created the thing that created the omnics
proud pike
And that thing learned how to be alive...
limpid agate
There was also a ~decade between when she made the omnium AI and when the crisis started
And that thing learned how to be alive...
Not the right choice of words, but let's suppose it is. How the Omniums awoke and rose up against humanity is a mystery in universe. They were shut down for a few years before they all of thr sudden woke up and started churning out killing machines
elder cloak
You can just talk, no need for one conversation only
limpid agate
- Liao makes Omniums
- Omniums make Omnics
- Omniums start shutting down
- Years pass
- Omniums suddenly start waging war on humanity
proud pike
self-learning leads to self-awareness sooner or later
limpid agate
Sure
proud pike
So, self-learning for Omniums is bad idea
limpid agate
Not necessarily
iron plume
In hindsight, yes
limpid agate
In this case yes
proud pike
So, Dr Liao didn't take this into account, and technically the uprising was because of her
limpid agate
And that is why she feels guilty
iron plume
From the information they had at the time, no
Again, a not self-learning program is inevitably much worse at performing their tasks
peak escarp
Liao did blame herself for the crisis
iron plume
If you presuppose that it's natural and not from an interference, Liao bears part of the blame
But calling her stupid for doing the best thing at the time and not predicting something no one else predicted either is well
proud pike
From the information they had at the time, no
Again, a not self-learning program is inevitably much worse at performing their tasks
but self learning program dont want to do their tasks
elder cloak
Does anyone know Liao's whereabouts after the crisis?
iron plume
Self learning and sentient are not the same thing
cerulean ice
liao died
limpid agate
@elder cloak She was part of Overwatch until she died
cerulean ice
lol
elder cloak
Alright
unborn owl
So, Dr Liao didn't take this into account, and technically the uprising was because of her
@proud pike Morrison: "you should join us!"
Liao: "But I helped create the omnics!"
MOrrison: "So who better to help us fight them?"
iron plume
@cerulean ice not in the crisis
proud pike
I know, but one thing leads to another
cerulean ice
i wasnt referring to the "after the crisis"
iron plume
well they asked for after the crisis so you didn't answer the question
limpid agate
Yeah, Liao's design led to a war eventually. And she feels guilty.
And thats it
What was your point again?
iron plume
Back to the actual point
Her decisions contributed to the effect that eventually lead to the war
with many other decisions made by other people to steer it on
peak escarp
pretty sure there are historical examples of inventors feeling guilt over the destruction their inventions caused
iron plume
and also maybe hostile interference
limpid agate
pretty sure there are historical examples of inventors feeling guilt over the destruction their inventions caused
I am become death, destroyer of worlds
proud pike
pretty sure there are historical examples of inventors feeling guilt over the destruction their inventions caused
@peak escarp TNT for example
limpid agate
Is probably the most famous example
hasty geode
the inventer of the atomic bomb felt guilty for what he created
iron plume
Alfred Nobel, "Merchant of Death"
peak escarp
I was blanking on the name
worthy rose
Why would he feel guilt?He helped end war
peak escarp
Oppenheimer
proud pike
Wait
peak escarp
that's the one
hasty geode
Dr. Robert Oppenheimer
peak escarp
I think Blizzard was going for that with Liao - the creator of something that could have been great but ended up being a disaster
proud pike
@iron plume (last ping, i promise) so, we agreed? Peace?
unborn owl
I think Blizzard was going for that with Liao - the creator of something that could have been great but ended up being a disaster
@peak escarp Which they'd done with Torb in his comic, which opened with Oppenheimer's quote.
iron plume
On what, exactly?
proud pike
I mean ''reach an agreement''
iron plume
If it's Liao unknowingly contributing to the crisis and bearing some guilt, yes
If it's Liao "being stupid", no
If it's her knowingly making omnics sentient, also no
unborn owl
Looking at the original strike team, half the team was driven by guilt: Torbjorn and Liao both struggled with the war machines that the omnics became, and Reinhardt was driven by his foolhardiness causing Balderich to sacrifice himself.
iron plume
Take your pick and be done
proud pike
to hell with it, I stand by my opinion
steel girder
yes
unborn owl
and peace returned to r/ow/lore once again
hasty geode
lol
peak escarp
unfair to call her an idiot when she didn't know what would happen
iron plume
When no one did and wouldn't for a while
steel girder
Here is a crackpot theory
cerulean ice
no its because "she gave them self awareness still even though it could cause war or shit"
what he said
terse oar
That’s basically “why didn’t you know the answer on the test” lol
iron plume
Which is
also wrong
limpid agate
There is also the case that Omnica could have handled it.
steel girder
Bois bois
limpid agate
However, because the company and omniums were shut down
limpid agate
No one was able to solve the problem before it got out of hand
cerulean ice
Junkies treasure explained
not rlly
peak escarp
it's not treasure
unborn owl
the real treasure was the friends we made along the way (i.e. Roadhog)
unborn owl
harsh
peak escarp
He came to notoriety when he discovered an extremely valuable secret in the bones of the omnium. Though few knew the nature of what he found, he was nonetheless pursued by bounty hunters, gangs, and opportunists wherever he went, until he made a deal with the Junker enforcer Roadhog, who grudgingly agreed to be his personal bodyguard in exchange for a fifty-fifty share of the spoils.
cerulean ice
it makes it sound like a big deal with that paragraph
aight so junkrat can control omnics now end story
peak escarp
basically, he saw or learned something in the dead omnium and everyone assumes it's treasure because that's what they find valuable
cerulean ice
we dont rlly know what the treasure is though so uhh
peak escarp
he could have learned why the omniums woke back up after being shut down
steel girder
yes
cerulean ice
what story was rhis? i dont think ive read it
steel girder
but here is my theory
peak escarp
it's from Junkrat's bio
steel girder
it is a good one
So u see
In junkestiens revange he gets secret to life right?
i think thats a nod to the plot of ow
limpid agate
That's not Junkrat
terse oar
Parts of it parallel, yes
steel girder
junkrat finds the treasure
hasty geode
right
steel girder
and the tresure must have been very important to have been kept under secerity that could survive a reactor exploding
and his treausre being this important to the omiun because it probably cant function without it
that is why it ws under such scercuity
and thats how it survived the blast
but where i am getting from this is that
it might be the source code
the treasure that isnt his so to speak
its the omnics
and junkenstiens revange helps support this even tho it isnt part of the plot
because the secret to life isnt his
its the witchs
and the omnics life isnt his to own
its thiers
unborn owl
So Junkrat's "treasure" is a copy of the source code for the omniums' self-aware AI.
steel girder
basiclly
peak escarp
the secret wasn't under security
steel girder
it had to have been
peak escarp
it was just there
peak escarp
information doesn't get destroyed in explosions
unborn owl
Like if you're saying it was in a meltdown-proof vault, then yeah, sure, that would make sense.
steel girder
yes
peak escarp
it's intangible
hasty geode
well all ik is that hanzo wants it to
steel girder
yes
steel girder
yes
hasty geode
oh right
steel girder
inforation can be destroyed
be destroying the computer
so it had to have been in a vault of some kind
unborn owl
information doesn't get destroyed in explosions
@peak escarp Especially when it's information that we know isn't unique to the Australian omnium. Because that source code is something that would have been found at ALL of the omniums, and probably would have been found at Omnica when it was taken down for shady business.
steel girder
the evidence is that
hasty geode
but he says it cant be on his person. so its really big or its to valuable to be on him
cerulean ice
that doesnt prove it either
peak escarp
who says it was in a computer?
peak escarp
we don't know what it is or where it was stored or how he found it
steel girder
what we do know is that is usrvived a massive blast
where it was kept
so how did it survive
if it wasnt under lock and key
peak escarp
it could have been something that itself could survive the blast, without any extra security
peak escarp
or it could be something that is impervious to damage
steel girder
it sent metal kolometers around
so it was a massive blast
and the thing we are talking about was in the middle of it
peak escarp
so?
steel girder
it had to have been in a secrue place
lament prawn
if any info on it was stored in a computer, sombra would likely know about it, and i feel like they'd wanna keep this unique to junkrat
steel girder
yes
peak escarp
you assume it had to have been in a secure place
steel girder
yes
peak escarp
there's no evidence to support this
cerulean ice
???????
peak escarp
that's not evidence
steel girder
it is
peak escarp
it could have been put there after the blast
steel girder
why
peak escarp
it could have been something that didn't get damaged
steel girder
it is an omnium
peak escarp
there are many explanations that don't require it to be under lock and key
steel girder
surrounded by ppl that hate omnics
why would they put something there after the blast
if they know ppl scanvge
unborn owl
Hmm. Whatever it is, could someone have put it there and WANT it to be found by the Junkers, but it was found by Junkrat, who kept it secret when it was intended to cause a scandal?
terse oar
steel girder
so they give it to crazy ppl
like irrateated freaks
it would be hazerdous to go there even without ppl
because of radiation
only the ppl in the outback are immune
terse oar
Even then, they’re not immune
steel girder
then why arent they dead
peak escarp
they have anti-radiation medication
peak escarp
that's what Roadhog's breather is
steel girder
junk doesnt use it
from what we see
and u have to pay for it
i think its roadhog specific
cerulean ice
its not roadhog specific
peak escarp
Junkers still aren't immune
steel girder
junk should use it if he needs it
peak escarp
they're all irradiated
unborn owl
Say, for example, that what Junkrat found was evidence that the meltdown was actually caused by the Australian government, who pinned it on the Junkers. Someone (say the Puppetmasters) places it in the omnium's wreckage to be found by the Junkers, with the intent of the Junkers using it as justification for rallying for a war on the government. But out of all the possible junkers who could have found it, it was Junkrat, who immediately boiled it down to something that someone would pay a ton of money to keep concealed. And because he keeps bragging about how much money this thing is worth, but keeps being cagey about what it is, the Queen throws him out along, and Roadhog goes with him.
limpid agate
Radiation sickness also isn't a fast killer
terse oar
His life
unborn owl
wait, how is Junkrat filthy rich
steel girder
he stole so much shit
iron plume
All that heist spree stuff
steel girder
have u seen the stuff on the payload
cerulean ice
^
steel girder
in junkertown
unborn owl
I question the canonicity of The Plan
steel girder
there is a comic
terse oar
The first point defender spawn on Dorado is also due to Junkrat and a Roadhog
The broken in bank
terse oar
Jewels, yes
steel girder
and the crown
peak escarp
have u seen the stuff on the payload
doesn't mean he's rich
all that stuff is stolen
peak escarp
it's also all in gold bricks and various treasures - a little hard to go out and spend that
young knoll
Yeah, I think gold bricks have serial numbers too
So they likely get caught if they try to sell it
Junkrat is more theoretically rich than actually rich
young knoll
You could melt it down
But they might have even better tracking stuff in the future
He is probably screwed either way
peak escarp
that's pretty hard without the equipment, although if anyone would have the equipment it would be the Junkers
young knoll
Gold isn’t that hard to melt
Plus junkrat has access to explosives, so I would imagine he could find something
The jewels though
Those I doubt wouldn’t be recognized
And the gold is probably still risky
peak escarp
but you still need a furnace and a crucible, most people don't have that
valid terrace
Or Bruce probably
charred barn
there should be a young reinhardt skin
limpid agate
@charred barn There is a young Rein skin.
limpid agate
peak escarp
I think at this point everyone has a "young" skin (at least, everyone it would make sense for)
I'd like a better one for Ashe though
worthy rose
Is junkrat considered one of the richest people in overwatch
frosty shell
proud pike
Is junkrat considered one of the richest people in overwatch
@worthy rose Well yes, but actually no, cause Roadhog received 50% of JK's wealth
cerulean ice
new karaoke interactions are cute
snow shadow
opinions on the new comic?
cerulean ice
gr8
cerulean ice
loving tracer comic so far
proud pike
opinions on the new comic?
@snow shadow 50/50
New "Alive" details is nice
But Iggy`s reaction....
snow shadow
yeah her reaction was really stupid
proud pike
Even if Tracer didn't blink, the bullet would have killed both of them
Because b a l l i s t i c s
snow shadow
I'm no writer but even I can see that is a horrible decision
limpid agate
I agree it is a pretty silly way to force a conflict, but I will say that in defense of this line, there were two lines earlier that support this irrational (to us) reaction.
1 - Kace is speaking to Iggy, and he says "Omnics fight for the whole. Humans fight only for themselves."
2 - When Tracer thinks that it is rude that Mondatta was given food, he replies "A common human oversight. And it is one of the small things that divides us."
Based on these two passages, I think the intent was that an Omnic would have sacrificed themselves and taken a bullet for Mondatta, while a human would not. The Omnic would view it as irrational to not take that bullet, while the human would think it irrational to blame Tracer.
proud pike
You're right, but still. The bullet would have just gone through the Tracer and still killed Mondatta
terse oar
And our reactions are just proving that point lol
proud pike
And then there would have been two victims, not one
limpid agate
The bullet would have probably not killed Mondatta if it hit Tracer.
Even if it hit him.
Bullets are less lethal to omnics than humans purely because of how the different makeups of their bodies are.
proud pike
Why not?
proud pike
Technically, she can
elder cloak
Because I find it hard to hack cybernetics, but obviously sombra is a master hacker
And what would happen to genji if he did get hacked?
Cause the cybernetics are keeping him alive right?
proud pike
yes
proud pike
Hypothetically , Yes
limpid agate
@proud pike If you don't know the answer, don't answer the question.
limpid agate
@elder cloak Sombra can hack computers. Its still questionable how much of Genji is Genji and how much of him is machine. We don't know what she can manipulate
But based on what we have seen in Hero of Numbani
She can't outright manipulate or shut down things as easily as people think.
proud pike
@proud pike If you don't know the answer, don't answer the question.
@limpid agate I said "hypothetically", so, I'm just suggesting an idea
elder cloak
I would think if he was more a machine, he couldn’t fight like he can
limpid agate
At the very least, she can probably disable his legs.
limpid agate
Probably not, no.
candid juniper
Every hacker still needs an opening. Lore-wise, I think that she wouldn’t be able to just completely shut him down, as Yagyū-via said.
limpid agate
No
elder cloak
He was hired to track her down
Which he couldn’t do
“Everything can be hacked… and everyone.” -Sombra
I wonder what it takes to hack reaper
Well according to sombra everything can be hacked
lul
snow shadow
hack the planet
elder cloak
But the question is how do you hack a planet
candid juniper
Character select quotes are probably not the most accurate source of information. To me it doesn’t seem like she’s repeating a fact, but just a phrase that she believes in. I don’t know as much about this topic as some people like Doctor-Six, or Yagyū-via, so if you are curious about that you should ask one of them.
elder cloak
That’s a unrealistic answer
How evidence either
She could probably hack something to reapers cells
You think this is possible? @peak escarp
terse oar
She most likely can’t hack organic things (like Reaper’s cells)
candid juniper
That’s what I thought too but wasn’t sure about
snow shadow
Sombra, hacking mccrees ability to roll or soldiers sprint: y'all hear smth?
terse oar
In game ≠ lore
candid juniper
^
terse oar
Definite example: Rez
proud pike
Or damage boost
candid juniper
Canon ‘Rez’ is a burst heal as shown in ‘Zero Hour’
terse oar
Canon ‘Rez’ is a burst heal as shown in ‘Zero Hour’
^^^
We don’t quite know how damage boost (specifically Mercy’s) works, but Orisa’s Supercharger was said to “energize” people
candid juniper
I’d assume that could be the same for Mercy
terse oar
Lucio’s music is stated to be similar
proud pike
Also Mercy's pistol
desert yarrow
tbh i feel like maybe its connected with the person's like actual strength and energy tbh
terse oar
?
proud pike
Also Mercy's pistol
It exist in game but not in lore
desert yarrow
idk like increase their limits in terms of strength and energy
i mean dmg boost
this is just a random theory btw lol
theres probs something in lore that tells how it works
proud pike
idk like increase their limits in terms of strength and energy
@desert yarrow Something like an adrenaline shot?
terse oar
It’s said to energize people, so I guess that would be true? I don’t quite understand your wording
candid juniper
I’d assume if it was canon it would work somewhat like what Orisa’s supercharger does or nano boost.
terse oar
Like hype?
terse oar
I guess it’d be similar to that
terse oar
Lol
proud pike
In theory, putting adrenaline on the battlefield is a bad idea
desert yarrow
i'd assume its like a temporary boost applied to the person that increases their physical limitations
terse oar
Well it’s not necessarily adrenaline
desert yarrow
like genji or rein
elder cloak
I bet Reinhardt could handle the adrenaline though
terse oar
That’s just the easiest comparison
candid juniper
i'd assume its like a temporary boost applied to the person that increases their physical limitations
That’s what I would think
terse oar
So more defensive than offensive is what you’re saying?
Like they could take more weight
desert yarrow
idk how to explain
proud pike
Well, there was no mention of DB in lore, so I think it's not canon (only Orisa SC)
proud pike
Hero of Numbani
@terse oar I'm talking about Angela's db
candid juniper
The Supercharger was canon, but that’s the only Damage Boosting ability to be featured in the lore to my knowledge
terse oar
That’s what we’ve also been talking about
Chimney suggested it could be similar, which is somewhat likely if it’s canon
proud pike
Well, technically, it's just a big boombox
peak escarp
I doubt Mercy would canonically have damage boost, since she doesn't like combat
candid juniper
^
elder cloak
Yea
desert yarrow
well, she does have a gun
elder cloak
And her pistol in the game is just defense
desert yarrow
so Db isnt completely thrown out the window
elder cloak
Or else she would have no damage
peak escarp
her gun may not be canon either
desert yarrow
cause shes very against it
peak escarp
we haven't seen her use it
desert yarrow
and violence overall
candid juniper
She is a pacifist
proud pike
And her pistol in the game is just defense
@elder cloak offtopic ||are you sure about "only defense"?||
desert yarrow
@elder cloak offtopic ||are you sure about "only defense"?||
@proud pike battle mercy
elder cloak
@proud pike offtopic ||probably, she doesn’t like fighting||
terse oar
Supports are probably the biggest gray area in terms of “what is canon”
desert yarrow
yea, they gotta be altered in game
to fit in
btw do we know much about pharah's father
Sam was it?
proud pike
@proud pike offtopic ||probably, she doesn’t like fighting||
@elder cloak offtopic ||But she has a few lines - taunts at defeated enemies. Like "Say A"||
desert yarrow
isnt he cannadian
candid juniper
Some of Lucio’s abilities are canon
As shown in Hero of Numbani
peak escarp
@desert yarrow He's a First Nations Canadian who works as a public servant
and is from the PNW
desert yarrow
are he and ana divorced?
elder cloak
@proud pike offtopic ||that doesn’t mean she likes fighting, also lines arnt necessarily cannon or credible||
peak escarp
it unclear whether they divorced/separated before Ana's "death"
but we know Ana doesn't wear her wedding ring
desert yarrow
yea, just the way ana and pharah interact makes it seems like they separated
elder cloak
Maybe because they don’t want them to figure out Ana isn’t actually dead
desert yarrow
sometime before or after overwatch
candid juniper
A while ago we were speaking about abilities in the lore
Does anyone know if Symmetra’s teleporter is canon lore-wise or no?
(If it has been confirmed)
peak escarp
she used it in A Better World
candid juniper
Ah ok
terse oar
All of Symmetra’s abilities are canon (although her Wall didn’t exist at that time... but it can probably be made still)
lament prawn
she's a skilled architect, if she can create all those intricate designs and shapes, she can definitely make a flat wall
terse oar
The sheer size of the wall is what makes me have some doubt though