I did it backwards
#lore-discussion
weary owl
cerulean ice
i just noticed how "reviving discs" looks similar to bap's immo lamp
worthy rose
z.i'm not sure if the reviving discs are canon
though now that you say that it's possible they're keeping them alive or something
grand wedge
Th'ats just for gamaplay reason
There could be some technology for emergency tho, like Mercy's biotic staff
worthy rose
this chat is specifically for lore
tall geyser
@worthy rose stop. No more warnings
lapis shuttle
this is what kaplan NEEDS to talk about
leaden birch
iron plume
!!shitposting @lapis shuttle
twilit nacelleBOT
@lapis shuttle Shitposting will result in a loss of access.
iron plume
I don't think those are canon, considering what they do is the same thing as canon Mercy rez, and it's unlikely that the tech was shared and picked up
hot heart
And sigma is — 62
@weary owl I thought he's 70
cerulean ice
moira would win
low brook
strong gorge
true
peak escarp
he's the oldest one on the roster so far
peak escarp
and Ana is 60
weary owl
The youngest hero is technically orisa shes 1 month but dva is the youngest human shes 18
peak escarp
19
cosmic crest
It's more for the principle of the thing, Rein being the oldest I mean.
hushed jetty
Have you guys seen the new interactions?
peak escarp
yes
worthy rose
Who is it between?
peak escarp
hushed jetty
Baptiste finally has more interactions 💖
And Ashe!
astral rune
terse oar
It amazes me they were still able to do this while at home
peak escarp
a lot of VAs have an in-home setup
peak escarp
at least she let him down gently
dapper crane
Lore doesn’t make sense
grand wedge
What do you mean?
dapper crane
How is a army of bastions even defendable
hot heart
Huh?
hushed jetty
Are you talking about the Crusaders?
Because they had shields
terse oar
A thing to keep in mind when looking at the lore is that gameplay numbers don’t mean anything
hot heart
Yea
Sigma can kill anyone he wants with his ability to control gravity
I mean he doesn't need to yeet and slam them, just create a blackhole inside someone
peak escarp
or that he would even want to
scarlet hedge
I think the most powerful person in overwatch is bastion. I mean, think about it. If bastion wanted to she could repair multiple B73 Units with the same programming she has and then create an overwatch army. Although sombra might hack into them
iron plume
for one,
she
it
for two, how would Bastion repair the long-dead B73s or reprogram them
scarlet hedge
same way bastion repairs herself. And it is a she. Ana confirms it.
iron plume
No Ana doesn't
peak escarp
the devs have confirmed Bastion is an it
iron plume
Arabic just doesn't have a gender-neutral declension
so it falls back on the feminine by default
Bastion is an it
scarlet hedge
Then i was told differently
iron plume
You were told wrong
scarlet hedge
Yes i realize that.
iron plume
To the latter part: We don't know the extent of Bastion's repair capacities even if when applied to itself
and the Bastion was never fully broken, unlike the husks of other B73s
peak escarp
scarlet hedge
True.
iron plume
When it came to itself, the 'repairs' were more like maintenance
I very much doubt there's an army's worth of Bastions in a recoverable condition left in the world
and it can't get to them all at the same time
If that's what it takes to be the most powerful hero, my bet is on Torb
because he can build new ones rather than just repair, he just needs the resources
scarlet hedge
Hmmm...youre right...and i had another statement i was going to say. Since Genjis body, Torbs arm, D.vas mech, and Mcrees arm are robotic, how come sombra cant hack them fully? She broke into a high level security base (Volskya) with ease. I get this would mess up the gameplay especially for the omnics that are fully robotic but still. How does that not work?
iron plume
We don't know that she can't, we just haven't seen her do it yet
For gameplay specifically, it's a matter of game balance rather than lore, the specific capabilities of heroes can differ wildly between the game and canon
scarlet hedge
Yes. I know that.
Sombra could easily win against bastion, orisa, genji, echo, and dva if it was based on canon
iron plume
But when it comes to lore:
"Robotic" doesn't mean electronic. McCree's or Torb's arms might well be hooked directly up to their "live" nerves with zero computers involved
And "electronic" doesn't mean hackable. Sombra's a brilliant hacker but she still needs an entry point. Volskaya, as tight as their security is, is vulnerable because they have to have outside entry, unless they want all their locks and controls to be physical
scarlet hedge
I can see that
iron plume
Neither Genji's body nor D.va's mech have to be
And if they're not, the only way even someone like Sombra gets in is with physical interference
scarlet hedge
Im sorry i just have lots of things in my mind and nobody to discuss these things with
iron plume
That's what we're here for
scarlet hedge
i think i know why symmetra gains ammo when hitting sheilds
theyre both hard light
Right?
she makes turrets and teleporters out of hard light. And something like reins sheild is probably based off of the same technology.
iron plume
probably
scarlet hedge
Its the only logical reason she can drain the energy.
Thats why she devastates reinhardts when played right
Well...anyone can devastate anyone if you play them right
Another thing. Sigma can affect gravity. I just now thought of how he launches his spheres, and then they somehow reappear in his hand.
clear nest
Another thing. Sigma can affect gravity. I just now thought of how he launches his spheres, and then they somehow reappear in his hand.
For gameplay reasons. We haven’t seen much of sigma in lore so we don’t know what about his kit is canon
scarlet hedge
Alright
opaque tundra
new comic
woop
So Alive's events are now sliiiiightly different
And Kace is NOT the bot from the end of storm rising
limpid agate
As expected
It would make no sense for Kace to be Null Sector
Unfortunately, Kace is a pretty boring design.
terse oar
Do we know if Null Sector was completely destroyed after Uprising?
limpid agate
Source: Zero Hour, and pretty much all of Overwatch 2.
terse oar
This is between OW2 and Uprising though
limpid agate
Yes.
If Null Sector was completely destroyed after Uprising, there would be no Null Sector in Zero Hour/Overwatch 2.
Becuase they would have been completely destroyed.
terse oar
But could these comics be what’s leading up to Null Sector’s invasion
That’s kinda what I’m getting at
limpid agate
This comic took place during Alive, before Recall.
terse oar
Yes, I know
limpid agate
Zero Hour is a year after that.
We also know from Storm Rising that Doomfist made plans with Null Sector, but those plans were put on hold because of his arrest.
So the real catalyst to Overwatch 2 is Doomfist breaking out of jail, not London Calling.
There's a new issue every month.
Until January, when we get issue #5 of 5.
weary owl
Ah i see
vocal nymph
Woohoo more lore
Ohh widowmaker in the cover. More widow and tracer interaction I hope
weary owl
Whoa this comic is fire, do you think iggy (i think thats her name) is gonna betray tracer?
I feel like iggy has something against tracer now and maybe she stopped trusting tracer?
worthy rose
I don't think Iggy is gonna betray Tracer
Nothing in the comic seems to say Iggy has something against Tracer
hushed jetty
Maybe not betray, but I'm pretty sure she at least trusts Tracer less
limpid agate
Yes
limpid agate
Read it
limpid agate
hard sinew
Thx
vocal nymph
I aint downloading that on my phone rather I just read with my laptop when I get home
worthy rose
New zen lore this december 
limpid agate
New zen lore this december :hy_catExcited:
@worthy rose What are you talking about? Did I miss an announcement?
vocal nymph
Where was the zen lore mentioned
limpid agate
I don't think it was.
hard sinew
worthy rose
Eh it matters not.If its not Reaper lore idc
orchid swan
I want more Overwatch lore behind what happened between Ana, Reaper, Soldier, Moira and Mercy
I personally find that to be the most interesting backstory because there’s alot of dialogue behind it between all of those 5 characters but not much story
lucid island
yeah
i want more for reaper tho
it would be shocking if he had a family
and thats the reason he is doing waht he is doing
cosmic crest
We already know he had a family.
orchid swan
Yeah specially Reaper. I wanna know the series of events that lead up to him joining Talon and whether or not he’ll become good again or something like thag
He did?
lucid island
when did he have a family?
cosmic crest
It was shown in Reflections and referenced in Bastet.
orchid swan
Ah ok. Never saw that
lucid island
where is that,i just started playing
worthy rose
On the facebook page for overwatch
worthy rose
Rip sigma
He finally gets an interaction where someone responds
And widow rejects him
f for my boi sigma
hard sinew
lucid island
F
limpid agate
@worthy rose Don't spread misinformation or make fake leaks.
fringe blade
What did they say?
desert yarrow
On the facebook page for overwatch
this i think
fringe blade
Ah
worthy rose
That was a joke 😕
peak escarp
don't joke about that
worthy rose
Okay doctor junkensix
hot heart
Sigma: Wanna hang out?
Widow: No
Sigma: Understandable, have a great day
peak escarp
Sigma knows how to respect women
worthy rose
He should learn to respect Reaper not some dolt who can only miss shots and eat baugettes
gusty sluice
hahahahah SAVAGE
reaper appears to be more short tempered and moody compared to gabriel reyes perhaps, since i feel reaper is reyes' bad side
peak escarp
Widowmaker has a better on-screen record than Reaper does
at least she killed one of her targets
gusty sluice
eek
worthy rose
Reaper would of won had the buffoon named Sombra not betray him
gusty sluice
sombra is not 100 percent loyal to talon, so not a good person to trust with
worthy rose
And if Reaper was in alive he would of easily killed Mondatta
valid terrace
Reaper also wasn't responsible for killing Volskaya
worthy rose
Just teleport behind and shoot his back
valid terrace
He was just there as the muscle
fringe blade
Teleportation isnt canon
worthy rose
He used it in the Museum
gusty sluice
i think that goes the same with soldier 76, but soldier 76s rarely smiles compared to jack morrison back in the day
but soldier 76s good side remained unlike reapers
valid terrace
What are you arguing
gusty sluice
jack morrison looks very happy in his old photos
valid terrace
Because if it's Soldier is a better person than Reaper, you'd be correct
gusty sluice
he is in fact!
fringe blade
Of course you wouldn't be very happy
valid terrace
They both look happy in the past
worthy rose
Meh Soldier did some pretty terrible things
valid terrace
They both did, but Soldier cares more for collateral damage
gusty sluice
well it is fascinating how drastically they have changed for the years
fringe blade
What Mosc said, basically
valid terrace
Reaper almost certainly would not have saved Alejandra
worthy rose
Ofc not why care for some insignificant feculant being
valid terrace
And Soldier didn't kill Helix guards when he stole his gun
peak escarp
dude your roleplay is seriously tiring
valid terrace
Caring for others makes Soldier a better person
hard sinew
Fr
valid terrace
Morality is clearly in Soldier's favor
worthy rose
Eh maybe
fringe blade
Though I never liked Hero that much
valid terrace
Doesn't mean he'd win a fight or be more feared
fringe blade
Its quite a weak short
worthy rose
I guess i'll give Soldier the morality favor
fringe blade
The setting is quite cool though
valid terrace
I like the flaming pinata
worthy rose
What flaming pinata?
worthy rose
I don't recall such a thing
fringe blade
It wasn't burning
worthy rose
I'll look it up
fringe blade
Not really
valid terrace
Damn
fringe blade
It wasn't on fire, I mean
peak escarp
it was smoldering
valid terrace
Oh well time to binge all the cinematics again 😋
gusty sluice
roleplaying reaper i see?! thats weird
worthy rose
Its not roleplay
peak escarp
McCree is my favourite, you don't see me tossing around cowboy slang
valid terrace
Cow Lad
lament prawn
nor do you try to pretend mccree is the equivalent of god lmao
worthy rose
Im not roleplaying as Reaper though
gusty sluice
boi i have 3 favorites( soldier 76 , reaper and mccree) , but you cant see me acting like them 3
fringe blade
Your mannerism is very Reaper-centric
worthy rose
I don't go around saying "Death comes"or "Death walks among you"
fringe blade
Making a Reaper-esque joke once in a while is fine and cool (or setting your PFP as reaper, etc.) but acting like an edgy 14-year old isnt
The way I see it, anyway
Not insulting you or anything btw, just saying
worthy rose
Me edgy?I never thought of myself as edgy
valid terrace
Most of your dark comments come off that way
worthy rose
I see
valid terrace
Nothing wrong with it necessarily, some people just don't like it
fringe blade
Its just tiring, that's all
valid terrace
As long as your opinions aren't at the expense of someone else, it's tolerable
worthy rose
All my opinions that are at others expense are kept to myself
clear nest
I think what people don’t like is how someone will come in here everyone once in a while and praise reaper like he’s god and it does get tiring
i have seen it happen three times but I can’t remember if the first two times were the same person or not
peak escarp
pretty sure it's the same person every time
hard sinew
Yeah it is
Scroll up and you can see what y'all were talking about yesterday with reaper guy but the pfp changed
worthy rose
Yes I am the same person
serene apex
kek
candid juniper
I’m gonna be real
The role play is tiring
If you’re gonna do it anywhere please don’t have it in the lore channel where most of these god complex type posts are irrelevant
You know
Because I want to talk about the lore
hard sinew
Fr
clear nest
I think it’s fine as long as you don’t spread misinformation like “reaper could easily beat winston”
glossy kiln
strong gorge
in game reaper counters winston idk bout lore
terse oar
There aren’t any “counters” in lore since ability and damage numbers don’t exist
worthy rose
Its NOT roleplay.Im not acting as Reaper merely praising and glorifying him
worthy rose
well he's not that great
@peak escarp I guess we can agree to disagree on that
worthy rose
Said monkey fought a man who can toss 2 tons car like nothing and punch with enough force to create craters
strong gorge
well we can all agree the most powerful character is genji
worthy rose
But Doomfist wrecked his rind
strong gorge
lucky punch
worthy rose
No it was stradegy
worthy rose
He was slashing his sword at Doomfist like he wanted to cut him in half
strong gorge
his dragon sword has the power of a literal god
peak escarp
what
worthy rose
No it does not
strong gorge
if you translate the line
peak escarp
the sword isn't magic
strong gorge
its a japanese god
peak escarp
it's just a power phrase
strong gorge
dragon god or something
peak escarp
doesn't mean he actually gets his power from a god
strong gorge
i mean still more powerful than doomfist
but most of the characters are more down t earth
so out of everyone only the ones with powers would be the most powerful
so either reaper,genji,hanzo,tracer,and moira,echo, and some others
worthy rose
Hanzo should not be on that list
peak escarp
if we're counting powers, Sigma or Symmetra would be at the top of the list
peak escarp
they all use tech
worthy rose
So?
strong gorge
the ones i said dont
peak escarp
every power in the game comes from tech
strong gorge
he still would be more powerful than a normal human
im talking about the powers that would still be there if the tech was destroyed
cosmic crest
Symmetra is basically a green lantern in the lore.
worthy rose
Then everyone would be weak af
peak escarp
so "innate" abilities . . . that's Moira, Reaper, Sigma, Winston
strong gorge
hanzo and genji too
cosmic crest
Why would we say that? If you create a specific scenario like that you could make any hero lose. Also she doesn't were gloves.
peak escarp
everyone else gets their powers from a tech that could be removed/broken
cosmic crest
Alright
strong gorge
so who is the most powerful?
worthy rose
Reaper,Winston,or Echo
strong gorge
why are we doing this to my man genji
peak escarp
so you mean "who would win in a fight"
strong gorge
yeah but out of everyone
worthy rose
Genji is pretty powerful.He would beat most characters but just not Reaper or Doomfist
strong gorge
why not reaper
peak escarp
because Sigma has incredible power, but he's not an aggressive person and would probably avoid fighting
worthy rose
Not actual black holes
peak escarp
he can control gravity
cosmic crest
@peak escarp I don't think there is any reasoning with these guys tbh
peak escarp
which means he could just increase gravity on you and you wouldn't be able to move
lament prawn
this is so dumb
strong gorge
thats true
peak escarp
yeah
lament prawn
can we all say genji or reaper or whatever is god so we can move on
strong gorge
ok sure genji and reaper are equal strenght
worthy rose
Well he beat Reaper with underhanded tactics.I wouldn't exactly call it more powerful
I think someone like Echo is the most powerful
peak escarp
depends what she can actually do
I dont think she literally transforms into people and gains their abilities like in the game
its more likely that she just learns by copying/mimicking people
cosmic crest
Yes it would be lame if she couldn't duplicate, it's her signature ability and one of the most interesting things about her.
That'd be like if tracer couldn't recall or if Genji had no dragon blade.
It would make sense if she was one of the most powerful characters since she was locked away for many years.
worthy rose
Yes unfortunately for me its possible shes the most powerful
peak escarp
she was locked away because she was potentially dangerous, not because she was powerful
When Liao was killed in attack on an Overwatch facility, Overwatch’s leadership was reluctant to continue pursuing such a dangerous project, and all development on Echo was shut down, and the robot was placed into quarantine.
cosmic crest
Uh... yeah. I mean she dangerous for that reason.
Why else would she be dangerous?
The ability to copy anything is kind of a big deal.
peak escarp
they feared what might happen without Liao there to guide her learning algorithm
peak escarp
Mercy's resurrect is a core part of her kit, but it doesn't work like that in the lore
Zenyatta's discord and harmony orbs (and probably Transcendence) don't exist either
peak escarp
but it doesn't resurrect people
cosmic crest
Doing it metaphorically isn't the same.
peak escarp
well until we see her do it in the lore, I'm going to assume it's just for gameplay
cosmic crest
I would assume any ability is cannon until proven otherwise.
peak escarp
why?
clear nest
for gameplay
peak escarp
because negatives are harder to prove
lament prawn
gameplay comes first
peak escarp
also yeah, gameplay
clear nest
moira just having lifesteal would make her a boring character to play
lament prawn
they never had to show us ressurect in the lore for me to accept that it worked differently, it was just sorta obvious
peak escarp
it's a game first, lore second sort of deal
cosmic crest
They can design something for gameplay and still have it make sense.
lament prawn
it does make sense
cosmic crest
I think the vast majority of abilities make sense.
peak escarp
I don't see the difference between Echo literally copying people and Echo just imitating their skills
autumn veldt
She can still be powerful without her abilities
cosmic crest
I think there is a massive difference between Echo learning how to use Pharah's kit and her actively transforming into her.
lament prawn
ressurect as it works in the game would be dumb in the lore because mercy could reverse any death
duplicate, exactly as it works in-game, would be dumb in the lore if it means she can literally become Doomfist 2
autumn veldt
Would zen be the most powerful?
worthy rose
No
peak escarp
how does it work with heroes who have things unique to them? if Echo becomes Tracer, does she suddenly gain chronal disassociation?
cosmic crest
That is a bit of a stretch, but I could buy it.
autumn veldt
Possible power
lament prawn
if duplicate is canon, that's their last worry, it'll be another "it works because it does" thing (about chronal disassociation)
i would expect a middle ground where echo could maybe learn to blink but without actually being Tracer 2
autumn veldt
I guess that makes sense
cosmic crest
Maybe she can't use abilities with the same level of proficiency as the person she's copying.
I just think it's too interesting of a concept to simply right off as not cannon.
It's also part of her name sake.
autumn veldt
It is personality copying
peak escarp
an echo isnt the real thing
terse oar
Echo can duplicate physical skills and mannerisms
lament prawn
the concept can still be there, it just doesnt have to be as crazy as it is in-game, nor does it have to be as lame as a mental thing
terse oar
She doesn’t physically become a Swedish engineer
lament prawn
she can learn to hack like sombra but she doesnt need to be sombra
terse oar
But she could learn to build a turret by watching him
hot heart
Junkenstein's lore is a different universe right?
autumn veldt
Yes
terse oar
she can learn to hack like sombra but she doesnt need to be sombra
Exactly ^^
cosmic crest
@lament prawn I could maybe buy that, like she doesn't transform her whole body.
terse oar
Well she would still be locked up since McCree wouldn’t get her
terse oar
Would she be with Talon or Null Sector
autumn veldt
I think it would be impactful because she knows how to build omnics
She could make an army
peak escarp
does she?
peak escarp
Dr. Liao knew how to program omnics
terse oar
Lol
peak escarp
so Echo would know about programming
autumn veldt
Yeah
peak escarp
probably not
autumn veldt
She could have the ability for that
terse oar
I don’t think we know enough about the God Programs to make a call on that
peak escarp
we don't know who made "god programs"
autumn veldt
True
peak escarp
they were probably called "god programs" because they ran cities (at least, Anubis was part of Cairo's infrastructure)
autumn veldt
And then It went out of control
peak escarp
it's hard to say where Echo fits on the power scale because we dont know the extent of her power
autumn veldt
I see
peak escarp
same goes for Symmetra
peak escarp
discussions of "most powerful" are too vague
autumn veldt
autumn veldt
Yee
strong gorge
wait we are still talking about this i thought we stopped
autumn veldt
We just finished again
peak escarp
undetermined
autumn veldt
No one
strong gorge
cool cool
terse oar
We don’t know enough about the abilities and the specifics of “powerful”
autumn veldt
How about best character design discussion
strong gorge
genji
peak escarp
32 results found; narrow search and try again.
peak escarp
best design is subjective
terse oar
That argument is subjective
lament prawn
worthy rose
Meh I think its Reaper or Winston but not everyone will agree
strong gorge
why do you think my name is that
peak escarp
I like Mei's and Brigitte's design quite a lot
strong gorge
because genji is awesome
peak escarp
Reaper's design is good too
autumn veldt
Sigman is best man
strong gorge
yeah
lament prawn
my fav is probably hammond
strong gorge
the worst i think is tracer
iron plume
lol
peak escarp
all the heroes have strong designs
strong gorge
she just has a thing on her chest and thats it
terse oar
I quite like Sigma’s design 
peak escarp
her jacket is an homage to WWII bomber pilots
autumn veldt
I mean she is like the og character
iron plume
not... really but I get the sense that you won't care about anyone but your faves
worthy rose
Who me?I love characters like Sigma and Moira
iron plume
Mercy just has wings
Genji's just half robot
autumn veldt
Yeah sigma is cool
iron plume
Reinhardt's just buff
terse oar
Ana just a grandma with a dart gun 
strong gorge
hamster on a ball, edgy boy, old man, fat guy, skinny mentally deranged man,
peak escarp
Overwatch in general just has really good design
worthy rose
Reaper is edgy?!
iron plume
...yes?
peak escarp
which is part of what attracted me to it in the first place
worthy rose
Ok actually yea
iron plume
duh?
peak escarp
the other part is McCree
terse oar
All of the hero designs are great, which is why I’m excited for the OW2 redesigns
strong gorge
cowboy, bow and arrow man, robot 1, robot 2, horse robot,
cosmic crest
Sombra is probably my favour visual design, I love the neon cyberpunk look.
strong gorge
this is fun
mexican girl, flying girl, other flying girl, girl on a mech, monkey,
Roller blade guy, edgy healer, monk bot, baptiste
iron plume
You couldn't reduce sombra's actual character or abilities, so you just went with "mexican"?
terse oar
I prefer calling Zen “Build-a-Buddha”
strong gorge
yeah she was too cool
hot heart
"Death walks among... us"
worthy rose
Death comes!
strong gorge
sombra is my favorite character other than genji i cant insult her
iron plume
either way this isn't lore discussion
peak escarp
yeah, we've gotten off track
strong gorge
thats true
weak granite
2 kinds of Overwatch shipping
-
Shipping with chemistry. Usually official
-
Based entirely on fetishes. No chemistry. Only exists in the minds of lonely teenagers
terse oar
?
peak escarp
!!loreonly
twilit nacelleBOT
This channel is for serious discussion strictly related to the lore of Overwatch. Shitposting will result in a loss of access.
cursive tendon
candid juniper
^
limpid agate
I'm not a fan of Lucio's OW2 design.
valid terrace
Agreed
limpid agate
The ones I find are the best are the ones that carry forward story and character development, like Genji's.
valid terrace
Torb's is also strange to me visually
limpid agate
That being said, while Rein/Mei skins do that... I don't visually like them.
Torb's looks too much like a skin
Rather than a default
I need to see the model.
valid terrace
He's too broad imo
candid juniper
Hmm
I mean Lúcio’s skin doesn’t do much for his lore
I guess I just like the aesthetic
valid terrace
The hair is weird
candid juniper
Yeah
The hair threw me off
lament prawn
i like that rein's design pushes the crusader look into a more futuristic type to fit the setting, the classic design looks a little too old and knight-y for the future (especially the shoes/boots)
cosmic crest
Beards are very futuristic.
lament prawn
lmao
you know what i mean
although it would be nice to have an optional helmet if the player prefers that look
cosmic crest
The helmet would complete the look.
opaque tundra
torb's new redesigns make him look like a middle-aged motorcylist
terse oar
Torbjorns is to bulky to me
I really like Winston’s though since it just adds small details rather than overhauling the whole look
candid juniper
Adding small details that improve the design are nice
I like that they took the time to put them in
peak escarp
it's funny that Jack and Torb are (roughly) the same age, yet Torb is only now starting to go grey
terse oar
it's funny that Jack and Torb are (roughly) the same age, yet Torb is only now starting to go grey
Swedish genes I guess lol
cerulean falcon
peak escarp
or a less stressful life
strong gorge
its because torbjorn is a god amongst men and the sexiest beast
terse oar
Could be, but seeing as he blames himself for the Omnic Crisis, I don’t think he’s stress free
zenith prawn
Anyone willing to summarize the Tracer comics released last month and this month?
white cobalt
Finally read the last comic ||what is that inconsistency about Tracer blinking when the ammo when through her chronal?||
limpid agate
@white cobalt What are you talking about
white cobalt
@limpid agate the fight with Widow, i was remembering the cinematic.
limpid agate
@zenith prawn They're short comics, why not just read them?
white cobalt
|| Iggy says Tracer blinked, but in cinematic the bullet went through her chronal ||
limpid agate
The main changes between the cinematic and the comic from my memory are:
- Iggy is at the rally in the comic near Tracer
- Tracer calls Widowmaker by name before her party crashing line.
||She did blink.||
||Or Recall||
Here is a timestamp to the moment
You can see Tracer blinks/recalls
zenith prawn
So Comic #2 is virtually a recap of Alive?
limpid agate
No
The latter half of it takes place during Alive. The first half is new, and the ending is setup for chapter 3
zenith prawn
Alright
limpid agate
@white cobalt
white cobalt
@limpid agate Odd, seems i misrembered when the bullet when through her chronal, instead blinking
terse oar
She recalled in time, you’re probably thinking of when Widow dropped her into a wall
clear nest
can someone use the command so I can read the new comic
limpid agate
Tracer - Londing Calling:
#1: https://bit.ly/3mknXBx
#2: https://bit.ly/318GEix
I didn't update the command yet
terse oar
With its size, probably the only reasonable place
I imagine it’s somewhat reinforced though
twilit nacelleBOT
Tracer - Londing Calling:
#1: https://bit.ly/3mknXBx
#2: https://bit.ly/318GEix
limpid agate
Ignore the Londing, I've fixed it
terse oar
Lol
clear nest
thanks
worthy rose
What is this channel for?
woeful path
hot heart
Londing Callon
ornate solar
I have a lore question that confuses me, in the Junker town defense spawn (Last one), it has thousands of gold coins and yet why is this place so bad still, is the queen greedy?
peak escarp
yes
ornate solar
well then what does she want the money for?
limpid agate
And even if she wasn't, that pile of gold isn't exactly going to turn Junkertown into Sydney.
ornate solar
yeah but it still could really help the people and the "City"
limpid agate
Help in what way
They're not exactly starving
And poverty doesn't really apply in the same sense either.
ornate solar
And also we have barely any info about the place or the queen
For the queen we just have a name and a picture
limpid agate
We know that she became queen because she was the gladitorial mech champion of the Scrapyard
We also have an idea of her personality through her voicelines, history and design
worthy rose
so... reaper's lore is pretty simple isn't it?
he was a blackwatch member then he killed some important guy and the overwatch/blackwatch teams were "obliterated from existence" then reaper and moira became supernatural smokeformers
insert thonk emoji here
peak escarp
there's a bit more to it than that
worthy rose
ok so what is that bit more?
peak escarp
he was the Blackwatch commander, he killed some important guy after planning to just kidnap him and the Overwatch/Blackwatch teams were "obliterated from existence" made illegal
peak escarp
he and Jack Morrison got into a fight that destroyed the Swiss Overwatch HQ and they were both believed to be killed
then for reasons that haven't been explained yet, Reyes swapped sides and joined Talon as Reaper
worthy rose
ok
not simple at all
thx i guess
what about sigma's lore?
it is kinda weird
so he got his godlike powers in an accident?
🤔
peak escarp
he was an astrophysicist who wanted to harness the energy of a black hole, except the experiment backfired and he gained gravity powers (and had his mind fractured by the experience)
then Talon stole him out of the secret government facility where he was being held
worthy rose
so he is pratically a mad god that is controled by talon?
peak escarp
to put him in their own secret facility
worthy rose
🤔
peak escarp
he's mostly just an eccentric professor who can manipulate gravity
worthy rose
ok
seems better than mad god controled by talon
and we have sigma feet emoji
lol
hushed jetty
Do we know when exactly Baptiste joined Talon? Was that ever stated or implied?
peak escarp
not really
he joined the Caribbean Coalition after the crisis (when he was an adult), then Talon some time after that
we know he left 4 years ago
peak escarp
the timeline is fuzzy for a lot of heroes
worthy rose
do we know anything about echo?
i mean, she is just a "goot omnic" with a deadly beam
peak escarp
she's a robot made by Dr. Liao to be a hope for humanity
she is a multirole adaptive robot who can learn and copy anything she sees
terse oar
^ I’m just going to add to this because people get confused: she does not physically copy them like the gameplay
She only copies their physical skills and their mannerisms
terse oar
Yes
“However, the truth was that Liao had programmed Echo with a powerful, general artificial intelligence that learned by observation. After thousands of hours in the scientist’s presence, much of Liao’s behaviors (including her speech), were adopted by the Echo robot”
^ Official OW Website
She learns by observation, and doesn’t physically copy people
hushed jetty
A good chunk of gameplay mechanics are either not confirmed to be canon, strictly not canon, or they don't work the exact same way as the lore
pseudo thunder
Does anyone else reaslise the difference between McCree and echo?
McRae has 2 abilities
Mcree*
And echo has 3 and a passive
peak escarp
pretty sure there are more differences than that
pseudo thunder
Ik but that’s what I wonder
Will at some point heroes have like 7 abilities and 3 passives
peak escarp
there's a limit to how many they can have
pseudo thunder
But I’m wondering if that will change
peak escarp
and that isn't related to lore
pseudo thunder
Like mercy here
2 passives
2 abilities
And extra weapon will 2 different types heal and boost
And a pistol
peak escarp
that also isn't related to lore
peak escarp
because gameplay isn't canon
pseudo thunder
IKR
cerulean ice
what
terse oar
Aside from lore, there can’t be that many abilities due to the button mapping on controllers
Lore wise though, it would just be to much to keep track of, and make characters feel cluttered
ivory pulsar
Gois, has anyone ever taken note of the Winter King's Row attacker spawn music?
placid fulcrum
I feel like the new tracer comic didn't do a very good job at setting up the conflict. ||the omnic girl seemingly blaming tracer for not letting herself be killed by widow and saying that she literally cannot figure out why tracer would do that is just too unbelievable and makes her look too obviously stupid and wrong. if this is meant to humanize the omnics then it fails at doing so, because I doubt any reader would agree with the omnic girl's point of view on this. it's like Anakin saying that from his point of view the jedi are evil right after massacring a bunch of children, it's just too obviously untrue to serve as a setup for a compelling conflict. it also doesn't really set up a compelling internal conflict for tracer, because again: blaming herself for not letting widow kill her is too obviously wrong to be sympathetic. if she had at least known that mondatta was there and knowingly chose her own life over his, that might've been compelling, but as it is, it's very one-dimensional. Compare this to, say, Spiderman's guilt over his uncle's death. That one was sympathetic, because he knowingly let the killer get away earlier that day, because he wasn't ready or willing to act like a hero should. He did something wrong and this was the price he had to pay for it. Tracer did nothing wrong, so any internal or external suffering she's going to experience as a result of this is going to feel undeserved.||
peak escarp
||Iggy feels the way she does because of what Kace said - he said that humans only care about themselves, not the greater good - Tracer should have taken the bullet for Mondatta and served the greater good. The problem with that is that Tracer didn't know she was in between Widowmaker and Mondatta, she was just acting on self preservation instinct. Interactions in the game indicate that if Tracer had known, she probably would have taken the shot to save Mondatta's life. Iggy wrongly assumes Tracer knew and dodged it anyway.||
placid fulcrum
||One hand, yes, this could be an interesting way of showing the difference between the way humans think and the way omnics think. On the other hand, Tracer was a civilian. One who was symapthetic to the omnic cause, but still had no responsibility to sacrifice herself for the greater good anymore than any human has to run inside a burning building to save people inside. Objectively, most people and I'm sure most readers, would agree that even if Tracer had known Mondatta was there, she still would've been justified in choosing to save her own life||
peak escarp
On the other hand, Tracer was a civilian.
But she's Overwatch
well, former Overwatch
placid fulcrum
not anymore
placid fulcrum
she is wrong
I would never judge a veteran for not rushing inside a burning building.
If anything, I'd expect Mondatta to be the one choosing to sacrifice himself as the ultimate proof of the omnic good will towards humanity
peak escarp
but with Kace saying Tracer wouldn't sacrifice her for the greater good, Iggy wants to believe that Tracer would sacrifice herself for the greater good, to prove Kace wrong
placid fulcrum
Yes but again: Kace is wrong
frosty shell
I am curious if Omnics don't fear death as much since new Omnics can just be built
peak escarp
placid fulcrum
Again: if this is meant to show the difference between a human and omnic mindset, then I'd agree that it's clever
peak escarp
if
it is meant to show the difference between humans and omnics mindset (or maybe specifically Kace's mindset)
placid fulcrum
but if I'm expected to feel symapthetic towards iggy there, well i don't. If her point of view isn't caused by being a non-human creature with a non-human mindset and set of morals, if I'm expectedt o judge her as I would any human, then i judge her as someone stupid and wrong
basically, it depends on how this storyline will go
placid fulcrum
and that's what makes me think it's a poorly-set up conflict
because tracer didn't make a choice
she's obviously in the wrong for blaming herself
peak escarp
it's an issue of perspective
the conflict comes from Tracer and Iggy having different perspectives of the event
placid fulcrum
again: there's understandable perspective, and then there's "from my point of view, the jedi are evil"
does tracer have a different eprsepctive though? it sounds to me like she agrees with iggy that it was her responsibility to let herself be killed for mondatta
and that's jsut not something that I can find compelling or sympathetic. it's jsut wrong
peak escarp
Tracer's perspective: Widowmaker was going to kill me so I dodged to save my life.
Iggy's perspective: Widowmaker was going to kill Mondatta so Tracer dodged to save her own life.
placid fulcrum
it's one thing to say "the omnics value things differently from humans, and the human-omnic onflict is caused by both sides' inability to udnerstand the other side's point of view" and another thing to try to say "oh, iggy just didn't know that tracer didn't know mondatta was there, but they are both in agreement that it was her duty to die for him. it's a simple misunderstanding, guys!"
the former is compelling, the latter is not
young knoll
how so
placid fulcrum
it's like a setup for a conflict ina romantic comedy, when a person walks in on somebody ina weird situation and misunderstands it
it's jsut not comelling
peak escarp
well, I guess not everyone will see the conflict
placid fulcrum
I said it higher up - peter parker blaming hismelf for his uncle's death is compelling, because it was a direct result of him doing something wrong before (letting a criminal get away)
peak escarp
I agree Iggy is being dumb and should just talk to Tracer about it
placid fulcrum
yeah, that's why i don't like it as a set up for a human-omnic conflict. I was hoping for something more complex
young knoll
to be covered in three more issues?
placid fulcrum
hopefully
peak escarp
hoping for something more complex
young knoll
how complex do you imagine it can be with those constraints?
placid fulcrum
but from the looks of it, the next three issues will be - iggy joining the null sector to get revenge on tracer, iggy and tracer having a showdown, tracer expalining herself, and iggy apologizing, the end
peak escarp
you're probably not going to get complex storytelling out of Blizzard
placid fulcrum
harsh, but fair...
peak escarp
how did Null Sector get involved?
young knoll
they kidnapped Mondatta in the first place
placid fulcrum
you;'d think they'd care to develop what's supposed to be the main enemy in the upcoming game
young knoll
Iggy probably doesn't have that much cognitive dissonance
placid fulcrum
either way, romantic comedy ending is incoming
young knoll
that I do agree with
peak escarp
I mean in London Calling - there hasn't been any mention of Null Sector outside of the flashback
lament prawn
i think my biggest issue is that i just had a way too distinct version of the events in my head from watching Alive so many times. i understand i was supposed to see the events in the comic and take is as "iggy thinks tracer willingly put the bullet with her name on it in someone else" but the way my brain saw the events prior to the comic, i just cant understand or fathom how it looked deliberate at all, with those few milliseconds of mid-air time
young knoll
deliberate? as in she wanted Mondatta to die?
peak escarp
I agree it's forced conflict
lament prawn
she didnt obviously, but that's what iggy thought
young knoll
so you are saying that Iggy expected Tracer to sacrifice herself?
lament prawn
i mean, she's certainly upset that tracer didnt
young knoll
Is your disagreement that Tracer should have to sacrifice herself, or that Tracer would not have?
lament prawn
i just cant understand or fathom how it looked deliberate at all
when i said this, i meant i cant understand how from anyone's perspective, it looked like a deliberate "yes, i am going to dodge and allow this bullet to hit someone else, on purpose" with just the nature of the way the scene was choreographed and played out. if the scene took place on the ground and tracer had enough time to think, then i could understand that perspective more, but then again they had an old scene to work with
young knoll
I am phrasing this poorly
placid fulcrum
I think we all know that she would have, because she's a hero through and through. Still it was not her responsibility either way, and I agree with jupit that it's just not very belieable that an onlooker would assume a deliberate intent on tracer's part
hence why it comes across as a romantic comedy-type of plot, rather than what we've come to expect from a superhero plots lately
clear nest
something that really bothers me about Mondattas assassination is the fact they took their sweet time to get him out of there
placid fulcrum
then again, in the last WoW expansion, a bunch of people join the side which has jsut murdered them and raised them, only because they were upset that their side didn't manage to save them.. from the murderer they just joined... and we're supposed to just accept that logic too. It's like Doc said, blizzard has never been known for particularly compelling conflicts
limpid agate
Razed
Not raised
Unless you were talking about raising undead.
The thems and theys got confusing.
peak escarp
that almost sounds similar to what happened with Reyes - he was anti Talon, Talon attacked Overwatch, Reyes blames Overwatch and joins Talon
very simplified, of course
and we don't have the full picture
placid fulcrum
I meant raised as undead
lol, true that does sound similar to him
hence why so many people are hoping he will turn out to be a double agent
still, at least talon didn't take part in the incident he blames overwatch for
granite grove
How does Reaper wraith and use his shadow step if he’s just a terrorist
peak escarp
he's a terrorist with the ability to degenerate his cells into a cloud of smoke and reform into a human
molten cedar
moira
peak escarp
yes, because of Moira
vocal nymph
The real question is how does zen abilities work 🤔
limpid agate
The real question is how does zen abilities work 🤔
@vocal nymph We don't even know what his abilities are, exactly
bronze wave
Fact: Zen's eyes are not the slits in the metal, but are in fact the blue dots on his forehead
valid terrace
No?
He's one of the few Omnics who has those
Presumably to represent them 'opening their minds'
bronze wave
Lots of omnics have them
Look at the Widow vs. Tracer short
Or look at null sector bots
valid terrace
Exactly
valid terrace
Other Omnic types don't have them
valid terrace
True
peak escarp
the number of dots/sensors isn't related to enlightenment
most omnics have dots/sensors
bronze wave
And therefore their eyes are not the slits
peak escarp
in Searching, Lynx scans Zarya with theirs
the dots and the eye slits could both function as "eyes", being different kinds of sensors
bronze wave
I think the slits are just metal to give omnics a more human feel but I could be wrong
Except for Maximilian who has sensors in his slits
peak escarp
but it's a Ghost in the Shell reference
bronze wave
On a completely different note, how does Tracer's time travel work
peak escarp
think of it like fast forward and rewind
but just for Tracer, not everyone around her
bronze wave
Because if it controls only her time and speeds it up or rewinds it then how does she manage to never rewind into a person that was standing where she was moments before
hushed jetty
Luck?
bronze wave
How long has Tracer had this thing on?
peak escarp
there's probably failsafes that would shunt her into open space if she recalled to an occupied position
hushed jetty
Either luck or just. Precision.
peak escarp
she's had it for about 7-8 years
valid terrace
I like to think she still has mass when she moves
So she's basically pushing everything out of the way to move
bronze wave
Ok but something that can't be explained is that in the Zero Hour short, Tracer remarks on how big Brig has gotten even though Tracer is only 2 years older than Brig
peak escarp
the last time she saw Brigitte was when Brigitte was a teenager
valid terrace
Tracer doesn't grow
bronze wave
But it just seems like a weird thing to comment on
peak escarp
she must have had a massive growth spurt
valid terrace
Yeah
peak escarp
and gotten swole
bronze wave
Brig do be kinda thiCCCCCCC tho
hushed jetty
She's pretty big yeah
bronze wave
Don't quote me on this but don't most girls stop growing in like middle school
peak escarp
Although there is a wide range of normal ages, girls typically begin puberty around ages 10–11 and end puberty around 15–17
if Tracer hasn't seen Brigitte since Overwatch fell (or possibly before that) she might not have seen her before she stopped growing
bronze wave
Ok then ill let that slide but here's something that I find really strange: Hammond is 14
Most Hamsters die at 2-3
I get that he was genetically engineered but come on
peak escarp
gorillas typically live to 30, Winston is 29 and clearly not a senior
bronze wave
If you could genetically engineer animals to live 7 times their normal life spans then why not do it to humans
They've done it to apes so I don't think people would be a stretch
peak escarp
maybe it doesn't work on people
or like today, there are ethical objections to genetic manipulation on humans
bronze wave
They gave soldiers super powers
peak escarp
According to the Guinness Book of World Records, the oldest hamster lived for 7 years. A dwarf lab mouse at the Southern Illinois University Cabondale Vivarium lived 4 years 11 months and 3 weeks. The mouse died in January 2003.
They gave soldiers super powers
@bronze wave during a war
ethics tend to get relaxed in wartime
clear nest
I don’t think Moira can?
bronze wave
But she is literally a geneticist
grim thorn
She might’ve done it Reyes
clear nest
I mean like, does she have the equipment necessary to do such a thing
peak escarp
there are other ramifications to humans living longer than their natural lives
bronze wave
So she can't make people live longer but she can turn people into smoke
Makes sense
peak escarp
it's sci-fi
clear nest
turning people into smoke is easy
peak escarp
it doesn't have to make sense
clear nest
peak escarp
and who says that was entirely Moira's doing?
his SEP treatment could have played a part
bronze wave
She did it to herself
peak escarp
probably using Reyes' DNA sample
bronze wave
But still, either Hammonds gonna die in the next few years or I'm calling shenanigans
peak escarp
Hammond will live as long as the plot needs him to live
bronze wave
Who knows
I'm a Hammond main so I'm not really wanting him to die but it wouldn't make much sense for him to live much longer
lament prawn
yeah that shouldnt be a concern
bronze wave
But that still brings back my point of why don't they do it to people. Even if ethics were a concern I'm betting that people would pay anything to potentially live forever
peak escarp
maybe it's not possible
bronze wave
Whats not possible
peak escarp
making humans live forever
peak escarp
where are you getting 7 times from?
bronze wave
14÷2=7
peak escarp
that doesn't explain anything
bronze wave
Hammonds age divided by the average hamster lifespan
peak escarp
that's assuming he dies at 14
lament prawn
why does any of this matter? all the genetic stuff is an excuse to have hammond the hamster, as a character design, in the game. and they're not gonna cap him out at 2-3 years
bronze wave
So at least 7 times
bronze wave
Well like you said earlier, Winston doesn't seem to be a senior
And Apes and people are really simular
peak escarp
why does it matter why they don't make humans live forever?
bronze wave
Because it just makes no sense
And also I've had this argument ready for like a year now
And I want to see other peoples takes on it
clear nest
it’s a video game
peak escarp
^
bronze wave
But this is lore discussion
clear nest
why does it matter if it doesn’t make sense or not?
peak escarp
making humans live forever isn't relevant to Overwatch lore
because in Overwatch, humans live normal lifespans
cosmic crest
This is such a pointless argument.
fringe blade
living forever would suck tbh
bronze wave
It connects to Hammonds age and the potential death of him in the sequel
It's unlikely but possible
fringe blade
Why would he die
peak escarp
it's possible any hero could die
fringe blade
There's no plot purpose for that lol
cosmic crest
Do you seriously think they will make Hammond die of old age?
fringe blade
Characters dont just die for no reason
fringe blade
ah
That doesn't nullify my point though lol
Doesnt matter how old he is, if there isn't a plot purpose for him to die, then he wont
lament prawn
its a stylized universe set in a bright optimistic future, the character designs come first, then excuses are made for why they exist. you're gonna go insane if you try to make sense of everything from a realistic perspective
fringe blade
Why do people try to rationalize every tiny thing about the lore
Why cant you just leave it at
"Its a cartoony game"
fringe blade
Its not fun when its a long, pointless discussion
lament prawn
i dont know, ive never seen this happen to this degree in other cartoony fandoms
peak escarp
it's fun to theorize about heroes and their motivations
bronze wave
And the pointless drive
peak escarp
not about pointless worldbuilding that will never be relevant
bronze wave
I'm wondering about the motivation of the world around our heros
fringe blade
Hammond dying of old age or living for a longer time than he's supposed to is completely fruitless
Or discussions about it, anyway
bronze wave
I'm wondering why scientists don't do it to humans
Its just a stupid point that needs an even stupider answer
peak escarp
same reason they don't do it now - it's either impossible or unethical or both
fringe blade
Simple answer: We don't know how to
lament prawn
stupid answer: they dont feel like it
bronze wave
Its not impossible because Winston isn't pushing daisies yet, and ethics wouldn't be a problem for someone like Moira
fringe blade
Winston isn't a human
bronze wave
Apes and humans are almost identical
peak escarp
also Moira is shunned by the scientific community
bronze wave
Genetically speaking
fringe blade
Its the same reason as to why humans IRL use mice and such
bronze wave
But even if they could make people live 20 years more, why not do it
fringe blade
Essentially speaking, Winston and Hammond are lab rats
bronze wave
Its not unethical
peak escarp
yes it is
bronze wave
Why
peak escarp
tinkering with peoples genetics is seen as unethical
fringe blade
Just because it works on apes doesn't mean it will work on humans
cosmic crest
That's not how testing works.
bronze wave
You are literally extending someones life
granite grove
So Moira is shunned upon but A GENETICALLY MODIFIED GORILLA ISNT
fringe blade
Experimenting on humans is unethical, even if that's very hypocritical of humans
peak escarp
Winston didn't ask to be modified
bronze wave
Drug testing today is literally experimenting on people and that's not unethical
peak escarp
So that should be shunned
@granite grove the scientists who modified him should be shunned, not Winston himself
lament prawn
damn they should've asked a normal hamster for consent, sure he would respond
granite grove
@peak escarp I agree