same with osama bin laden
#lore-discussion
proud dust
peak escarp
it would still be a crime for an ordinary person to murder them
proud dust
Legally yes but that does not mean they are morally bad
which is right where we started
peak escarp
it wouldn't be morally objectionable, but the term "murder" doesn't care about morals
murder is a legal term, meaning to unlawfully kill someone
if you have the lawful authority to kill, it's not murder
that's why soldiers and police get away with killing
(whether they should or not is a different debate)
proud dust
So yep we have all agreed that legally murder is murder regardless of who it’s done to, we’re past that
Soldier killing a bad guy and roadhog killing an innocent person still are not the same
clear nest
considering soldier killed a dude by bashing his head in with a piñata is it really much better
proud dust
Depends on what that guy has done, and considering the gang he’s in i would guess it’s some bad stuff
He’s at least okay with what the rest are doing
young knoll
there is no way the dude died to a pinata
clear nest
all we see them do are take Alejandras money and beat an omnic with a bat, it’s safe to assume they have done similar things but since we don’t know I wouldn’t say Soldier should have killed them
young knoll
those things don't cause that much blunt force trauma
unless they were a weird material
proud dust
You would think so but the piñata seemed a lot more solid than a real one
and was slightly on fire i think
I would say at least brain damage
young knoll
the fire didn't light him, I think
proud dust
No he didn’t light on fire, it didn’t show him getting burnt either but if that would happen irl i think it would’ve burnt at least a bit
clear nest
unless hog is killing people in an incredibly messed up way it’s not much better that Soldier happens to be killing some assholes
proud dust
? what
peak escarp
but Soldier and Roadhog are both killing bad guys
peak escarp
in Going Legit, he killed the Suit, who was using them to commit insurance fraud
and in Wasted Land he killed (? I don't know if they were actually dead) other Junkers
Roadhog and Junkrat both shot at the cops in Going Legit, but we didn't see them kill anyone
proud dust
The comics are only a small part of his life though i think
swift mason
The only thing he’s done to innocent people is steal
peak escarp
I'm just talking about what we've seen
you can make all kinds of assumptions about what we haven't seen, and there would be no way to disprove them
proud dust
the overwatch wiki says he took part in a “violent rebellion” and roamed the outback and became a ruthless killer
Quick question, what’s your opinion on killing an omnic?
Is it the same as killing a human?
peak escarp
yes
peak escarp
omnics are meant to be equivalent to humans in the Overwatch universe
(whether they are equal is one of the core conflicts of Overwatch)
proud dust
do we know what makes them different to computers? i don’t know a ton about the omnics
peak escarp
their programs have improved to the point of sapience
peak escarp
what is human social interaction but a series of behaviours we are programmed to respond to?
peak escarp
the only difference is that our "program" is written as we learn and experience
an omnic's program is pre-written
lament prawn
Is it the same as killing a human?
in real life, no. but in overwatch, they're written to be alive and have feelings and souls, so yes. the omnic/robot heroes we have are supposed to have emotions
peak escarp
don't worry, I won't drag it out
proud dust
god the more you think about it the weirder life gets
I would say emotion is what makes humans different to omnics but if they’re somehow capable of emotion, which they visibly are in the animations, even if it’s just some kind of freak code, there really isn’t a difference
peak escarp
they're at least able to simulate emotion
whether that counts as actually experiencing the emotion or not is up to personal opinon
lament prawn
in real life, they'd have to simulate emotion. in overwatch, as a viewer/player, you're supposed to accept them as characters with feelings, no questions asked. the questions being asked are from the people in the universe
proud dust
That’s true it could just be one of those unexplainable video game things and therefore have no reason to be discussed
it’s kind of fun to think about though
peak escarp
the nature of life and what constitutes a person are major topics in philosophy
a bit too deep for me though
two weeks or so until the next issue of London Calling
any predictions?
swift mason
We’ll get a retelling of alive
Or perhaps the events beforehand
It really doesn’t matter to me, I just want more tracer
peak escarp
I hope they clarify the order of events between Recall and Alive (and the Cinematic Trailer, but I doubt that will get mentioned)
swift mason
I could probably predict what’s gonna happen in issue 5
But I don’t want it to be true
lament prawn
spit it
swift mason
Iggy dies
peak escarp
blasphemy
lament prawn
i just hope we get to see her live reaction to finding out overwatch is coming back, and not just the bit we got in the recall cinematic
peak escarp
I want Iggy to stick around (and NOT become a hero - it's nice to have NPCs sometimes)
it's annoying when we meet a new character and every youtuber slaps a big red arrow on their thumbnail and says NEW HERO?!
limpid agate
Iggy and Kace are the only candidates for a new hero. I am hoping 1 character from this series becomes one. But if they stay as an NPC, that's fine too. We still have 4 more issues to see what kind of character she is.
when have they ever done this
Lots of characters were killed off in Warcraft/Starcraft. Also, every single player character in Diablo 1 was killed by the Diablo 2 player characters, and they were all (or mostly) killed in Diablo 3.
peak escarp
I meant in Overwatch specifically, but that works too
cerulean ice
it's annoying when we meet a new character and every youtuber slaps a big red arrow on their thumbnail and says NEW HERO?!
limpid agate
Its too early to tell
We can speculate, but we can't expect.
Its not like Mauga or the Queen
I would argue Hamid Faisal as well is a super safe bet. He is just 1 important namedrop away from being teased more than any other faceless hero.
peak escarp
@cerulean ice don't tell me you haven't seen them
worthy rose
Mauga is a must have
The vibes he gave me when I read the comic just made me fall in love with his personality
peak escarp
Mauga is confirmed to be a hero eventually
he was supposed to be hero 31, but we got Sigma instead
peak escarp
just junkertown
worthy rose
Makes sense
If they’re adding here at some point, I can assume she’s another dps (cause she looks like one) or she can be a tank with one of those junkertown mechs
Queen*
worthy rose
Doesn’t she have a mech?
peak escarp
she's a former scrapyard champion who used a mech
we don't know what her mech looked like
(prior to Wrecking Ball's release, many people thought she piloted Wrecking Ball)
I'm curious to know if she was part of the ALF
it's hard to judge how old she is from the few images we have of her
worthy rose
I thought she was still the queen when Hammond challenged her
cerulean ice
30's
peak escarp
what do you mean
she's the current queen
she was already the queen when Wrecking Ball became scrapyard champion
worthy rose
Oh
Alright
So did Hammond end her winning streak?
And I’m assuming she has a line when you play Hammond in Junkertown
peak escarp
no, she retired from being champion to become queen, I think
she used her fame to become queen, but didn't become queen because she was champion
we don't know exactly when the ALF blew up the omnium, but the omnic crisis ended ~25 years ago
so I'd guess between 20-25 years ago
so if she's in her 30s, probably not (maybe one of her parents was in the ALF though)
if she's in her 40s, then it's possible
we don't have any female heroes that are in their early 40s yet
we don't have a lot of heroes in their 40s at all
just Doomfist, Moira, Roadhog
peak escarp
Mercy is 37
Ashe is 39
Widowmaker is 33
Pharah is 32
technically Mei is 40, but she's only 31 physically
fringe blade
Its always amazed me how young Junk is
He has a very young spirit, but he looks quite old
ornate solar
peak escarp
the one that surprises most people is Zenyatta
you expect him to be older because he's so wise
nope - he's 20
he's younger than Genji
fringe blade
Well, they don't have to go through adolescence or anything
They basically appear as adults
fringe blade
So he might as well have started at 18-19
So he's technically 40-ish in human years
And seeing as he is an omnic, learning is much easier for him
So a robo-monk makes a lot of sense in terms of intelligence
low hedge
Hmm
hot heart
At first I thought Mercy was younger but her voice is not a teen's voice, it's so warm
peak escarp
she doesn't look younger
fringe blade
She would look much older if not for the tech that she developed
limpid agate
@fringe blade Nope
Don't perpetuate that.
Her tech has nothing to do with her appearance.
She looks as young as Ashe or Widowmaker.
fringe blade
I suppose the cartoony-ness of the series does come into play
Her field work probably also has a good effect on her overall health and appearance
terse oar
How would a battle pass system work in OW2 now that I think about
Would it give credits so you can buy the skins, or would it give a random skin of a certain rarity
lament prawn
probably a skin that only exists in that battle pass, for the duration of the battle pass, then you can never get it again if you dont play during the pass
terse oar
But if they’re removing the loot boxes (
), then would you get base skins as a build up to the exclusive one
Would you get points based purely off wins, or daily, random achievements/goals
hot heart
Dud that's Fortnite
lament prawn
i mean credits will probably still exist one way or another
lament prawn
but you probably wont be able to get limited time/battlepass content with them
i think he said he likes the idea of a battlepass, not that they're necessarily gonna do it for sure
terse oar
We know nothing lol
snow jewel
i dont know about battle pass
i mean yes theyre going to need xtra revenue, but necessarily i believr a battle pass would ve a bad idea
clear nest
loot boxes are stupid, who the hell wants to pay $40 to get a ton of sprays and icons
i’m glad they’re looking into something different
peak escarp
I like loot boxes, but I also have everything because I buy loot boxes every event
I'd be happy with a battle pass too
valid terrace
Loot boxes offer an alternative for those who would rather work than grind in game, either solution transfers hours -> items in-game
I like that you aren't boxed into either one, as I've been in both situations
safe field
fukk overwatch paladins forever ❤️
valid terrace
Is your reasoning for the lore? If not, you're in the wrong channel
lament prawn
more like wrong server
cerulean ice
lmao
terse oar
Does Paladins even have lore
limpid agate
A battle pass if done well can be a great way to both monetize and expand the lore
And if it's monetized, that encourages the devs to make more of it.
lament prawn
i'd be surprised if its not monetized
the whole reason they're doing PvE is because they saw the demand for story, and we know the missions wont be a one and done "here's your campaign" then it's over, they'll be adding missions over time
worthy rose
Do aliens exist in OW?
foggy needle
yes
iron plume
No, not that we know at least
limpid agate
@worthy rose No, they do not.
If they do, it is just like our world, where it is unknown and will never really be relevant to us
@foggy needle Do not spread misinformation.
limpid agate
Those are not aliens.
What little ships are you talking about anyways
Theres nothing out here
terse oar
Are you talking about the peanut butter jars
peak escarp
the only "aliens" are the fake ones on Hollywood and the fake ones in the Cave of Mystery on Route 66
worthy rose
Hm I’ve never been to the cave of mystery
terse oar
If you haven’t been to The Cave of Mystery, McCree would call you uncultured 
(As he calls Moira in Retribution)
worthy rose
2nd Attacker spawn in Route 66?
lament prawn
i dont think ive ever turned around and looked behind me in that spawn, like ever
i remember this feeling with a lot of spawns before, but i cant even come up with what that spawn looks like lol
terse oar
Moira: We could all use a little culture. The cowboy especially 
McCree: I’m plenty cultured. Have you ever been to The Cave of Mystery? Heh, didn’t think so
terse oar
They’re breeding “genuine” aliens 
lament prawn
didnt even know there were 2 doors
terse oar
I wonder if that’s a Deadlock trap or something. Scam people
worthy rose
Does junker queen have a voice line when you enter junkertown as Hammond
Cause there’s some where it occurs to dva, junkrat and roadhog
valid terrace
She says something like "the champion returns" iirc
worthy rose
Tbh looking at her voice lines she doesn’t seem to be a bad person
arctic loom
junkertown is not really a bad place
dapper patrol
Bad is relative. She might be bossy and mean but not too bad really, of you are organic.
Good luck if you go anywhere near her as an omnic though
So depending on your view on omnic rights she can either be an acceptable small time town leader, to a genocide expert.
despite her reputation of her gang as a bit pushy to the least, her being able to bring/keep the town in relative prosperity, she is indeed doing something right i guess. Then again given the harsh environment everyone is in that part of the world... this is basically thunderdome without the cool cars.
Jeff we need Gigahorse in crossout
That said, given Junkrat/Roadhog being one of the few beings with a wheeled vehicle we may see some of those in junkertown area, at least as far as lore goes
peak escarp
Junkertown is very Mad Max inspired
dapper patrol
It is for sure
up to many of the details
hence the mention of thunderdome, it is more on the old mad max than new one
I would even say something about waterworld movie, but that is a different thing in a way
Though that would be a great thing to add in pacific or something, a floating city
peak escarp
in the internal testing, the final point of Junkertown was nicknamed Thunderdome
dapper patrol
Damn the dv know
then again the dev was calling mondetta robot jesus, yeah they know the refrences internally
for now it seems to be more of a side story for junkrat's treasure so that is probably put on hold for the time being.
peak escarp
you never know
dapper patrol
i mean, at least after the tracer saga
peak escarp
Junkrat's secret could be useful for defeating Null Sector
dapper patrol
these few months would be tracer
i mean for all we care junkrat might have found a omnium core
but for now such thing is too big of a side item for tracer saga to be there.
peak escarp
there's a lot of misconceptions in the community about Junkrat's secret
and in the lore too
dapper patrol
Well other than "it is not something you usually carry around on person" we dont know much
we know it is found in the rubbles of junkertown somewhere that is about it
and we know it is unique and important
peak escarp
Hanzo assumes it can't be carried on his person
dapper patrol
so yeah we dont know much
peak escarp
because he assumes it's an object
dapper patrol
it can be something like data, as in core of an omnium
but i do agree junkrat may not carry it on person
peak escarp
it could be information
dapper patrol
not from the way the queen sees it
peak escarp
something he saw/learned deep in the bones of the omnium
dapper patrol
something he found yeah
peak escarp
He came to notoriety when he discovered an extremely valuable secret in the bones of the omnium. Though few knew the nature of what he found, he was nonetheless pursued by bounty hunters, gangs, and opportunists wherever he went, until he made a deal with the Junker enforcer Roadhog, who grudgingly agreed to be his personal bodyguard in exchange for a fifty-fifty share of the spoils.
nowhere does it say it's a treasure or something tangible
dapper patrol
well first off it is not something with a dollar value for sure, so not some stuf like gold and such
peak escarp
people around him assume it's treasure, because that's what they value
dapper patrol
and definitely not a cache of pachimari
peak escarp
and he uses that assumption to make bargains, like he did with Roadhog
dapper patrol
my guess is soemthing like a code/key to some big time stuff like .... how to restart an omnium core, for example
peak escarp
possibly
dapper patrol
for sure it is not just something he can tell/transfer to another person with a phase or two
first off queen have some idea of what it is
and if it is a phase or two then knowing junkrat he would have let it slip easy
so something more complex
peak escarp
Junkrat is smarter than people give him credit for
dapper patrol
yes he is smart for sure.
i mean look at the stuff he build out of literally nothing
but he is also a bit looney an unstable
so keeping secret for real is not his thing
if it is something he can just tell people
peak escarp
he does kinda play up the "idiot savant" trope, but he's not stupid
dapper patrol
no kidding, look at his bike, and i gues he does help roadhog upgrade some of his breath gear too
the again roadhog seems to be good mechanic also
and in general a kind person... if you are human at least
the fact mako let thieves go alive without harm shows he does not enjoy killing HUMANS
peak escarp
it's implied that Junkrat makes all his own explosives, and may have even made his own arm and leg
dapper patrol
now now omnic is a different story
well he definitely at least work parton on his arm and leg, and make all his traps and kabooms and weapons
so yeah ... that and surely the duo fix up their own bike also
all out of scrap
I always suppose the mass murderer thing about 'hog is mostly on omnics
we only ever see one case where the duo would try to murder someone
and in that event that dude literally set them two up for capture or death
I mean in that cargobay it is all armed guards... and they go sent in thinking it is an omnic trashing hero mission
limpid agate
What was guarded by omnics?
@dapper patrol If you're talking about Hyde Global
Those weren't omnics
dapper patrol
You saying those are not classed "omnics" in terms of robot rights, maybe, not sure.
But definitely armed.
limpid agate
They were told it was an omnic hostage situation
So they blow up the building and forget about the hostages
Then find out there are neither hostages nor omnics.
worthy rose
Who will win McCree or Soldier?
peak escarp
why would they fight?
valid terrace
Probably Soldier, but we'll hopefully never know
worthy rose
They would never fight its a what if scenario
peak escarp
there's a lot of variables, I don't know who would win
win at what? chess? Soldier would probably win. a shootout? McCree is a better shot.
worthy rose
An all out battle.Soldier has his weapons and gear and McCree has his gun and flash bang
peak escarp
but McCree has better aim - if he can use the terrain to his advantage and keep Soldier at a distance, he would probably win
scenic stump
is there lore beyond when hammond won the junkertown crown?
like what he did after?
peak escarp
it's pretty vague
some time after becoming champion, he left Junkertown to explore the world
fringe blade
I doubt anything interesting happened
Though it would be cool to see a comic or short story about that time period
terse oar
He won and then used his winning to upgrade the mech, that’s about it
He’s “searching the world for adventure”
scenic stump
ah i see
peak escarp
maybe Wrecking Ball is an amphibious mech
clear nest
if he could get from space to Earth I can imagine he can figure out a way to get across the ocean
peak escarp
or he stowed away on a ship
lament prawn
what he used to leave australia was probably the last thing on their minds when deciding where he ends up
where he goes just depends on what kind of story/progression they wanna give him
which means we have basically no clues
clear nest
Does Junkertown know their mech fighting champion is a hamster? Or just a random person who is constantly hidden in their mech
lament prawn
they dont know
peak escarp
they don't know he's a hamster
Bruce might know
since Hammond used his shop to build the mech
worthy rose
Will Overwatch have more cinematics?
peak escarp
yes
I don't know when, because the usual releases aren't happening, but they will make more eventually
worthy rose
I wonder what it will be about
lament prawn
there’s a good chance for one at blizzcon (feb 19)
probably to set up a hero for OW2
clear nest
isn’t february also when archives starts? gonna be a cool month
lament prawn
that was april (march this year) but they already said no more new archives missions
clear nest
oh, rip
lament prawn
no point in putting effort into inferior PvE missions, when OW2 is the proper PvE experience
peak escarp
kinda depends on what they announce at Blizzcon
lament prawn
they also carefully selected the 3 archives missions we got to set up OW2, so there’s nothing else they wanna tell us in that format
they didnt just come up with a random mission for every year
peak escarp
yeah, they told a specific story explaining the downfall of Overwatch
and the setup for Null Sector's new war
worthy rose
Hey, anyone knows that those red robot squids are ? The one’s Dva fights ?
cerulean ice
gwishin omnics
hoary marten
peak escarp
the squid-like robots are the gwishin
limpid agate
We don't have much info on them
They come from the East China Sea.
The faction is called the Gwisin. Those specific models are still either unnamed or have an unknown name
!!wiki Gwisin
twilit nacelleBOT
For more information about the game, please refer to the wiki: https://overwatch.gamepedia.com/Gwisin
worthy rose
Oh I see .. those ones remind me of the kaiju movies with the pilot mechs ...
So Dva’s only purpose is to fight those ?
valid terrace
Pretty much
Every few years a massive Gwishin would come up to attack South Korea, so the Meka team was assembled to stop it
The squid bots were a new occurrence
worthy rose
So I have a few new questions 😅
Why in the cinematic we didn’t see a big one ?
Also ... is it the very first time we see the new ones ?
valid terrace
They had just fought it off and were taking a break, this was the first time an attack happened without the big one iirc
They talk about it early in the short
worthy rose
Oh yeah.. thank you so much , just a few questions if you don’t mind
valid terrace
Sure
worthy rose
Usually the omnic bad groups have a link to each other historically or having similar organised militia.. those Korea ones, they have a link to the rest ?
Like .. how they came to be ? Earth doesn’t birth robots xD
valid terrace
There is rumored to be an Omnium, or Omnic factory, at the bottom of the East China Sea
And we don't know if the crisis era Omnics were linked to eachother or not
The current Omnics all have free will
The current hostile Omnic groups we know of are the Gwishin, the Russian Omnics, and Null Sector
None of which are related as far as we know
worthy rose
Oh I see... also since they adapt every time after the fight based on the enemy’s strength ( humans ) how can they get the feedback ? Since the robots are destroyed each time
Wait .. there are Russian omnics ?
valid terrace
Probably through feeds
Yes, there is a war in Russia against another Omnium, like the crisis but more contained
worthy rose
What exactly are omniums?? 😅
valid terrace
Zarya quit being an athlete to help on the frontlines
They are the factories that produce Omnics
worthy rose
That makes sense... also which squid omnics have free will ? Since some are <alive> and some are not so much haha
valid terrace
Those seem more like drones
I meant the civilian Omnics like Zen
Although they may also have free will, they just choose to attack Busan for reasons we don't know yet
worthy rose
There are many mysteries when it comes to omnics .. I hope in ow2 we learn something
But the ones I truly care is the Korean ones and things that have to do with dva
valid terrace
We will almost certainly learn more about Omnics through Null Sector and the Tracer comics, but we may or may not see the Gwishin in ow2 at launch
worthy rose
Yeah.. they aren’t really popular as null sector and other factions
Which seems off since they look quite lit 🔥
worthy rose
At least the null sector ones as still nice ...
I just hope we to find more about dva in ow2
Btw thanks for the help . Even not an admin you are really helpful 🙂
valid terrace
Most people in this channel are just waiting to help someone with lore
Or to talk with eachother when something happens
At minimum, she will get a new redesign which should give us clues to what she's up to
If they don't directly update the bios anyway
valid terrace
They probably won't, and the old skins aren't going anywhere
worthy rose
True that 🙂
So if I understood correctly this channel is for helping others with lore ?
valid terrace
Just any kind of Lore discussion
worthy rose
That’s really cool 😎
valid terrace
Mechanics not as much, but sometimes
worthy rose
So it is not banable speaking about not confirm stuff ?
terse oar
And contrary to server belief, is not a dead channel
worthy rose
So for example .. saying there is a hidden leader in the Korean omnics is fine ( because makes sense ) but saying about heroes who are to come isn’t okay ?
If so .. then I am all cool with those rules xD
worthy rose
Like ares ? I remember some rumours in the past
clear nest
Junkerqueen 👀
terse oar
Ares was a fan concept I think
valid terrace
Sojourn is outright confirmed, Junkerqueen is being developed, Mauga was planned but will be added later, as well as others
Ares was a joke by Jeff
iron plume
Ares himself wasn't even a joke
valid terrace
That was made specifically to poke fun at people reading way too into things
iron plume
it was speculation based on a Jeff joke
valid terrace
True
They could just make a character from a dozen loose threads that people didn't even think of
Like Sigma or Orisa
worthy rose
True that ...
valid terrace
Where there's one aspect of a map most people didn't think would lead to a hero
worthy rose
It’s like the normal world .. it’s so big you can’t know what is to come xD
valid terrace
Yeah
worthy rose
What kind of heroes would you like to come ? Like lore, origins , skills etc ??
valid terrace
Or Bap was kind of random
clear nest
I personally want to see Junkerqueen, even if she’s just an npc
terse oar
I just want a builder support
worthy rose
Junkerqueen is quite nice 🙂
terse oar
worthy rose
I would like some dps or tanks ...
The current state of the game is really tank/shield based especially compared to other shooters
valid terrace
I know Hamid Faisal is a contender, he's mentioned in logs in Petra and other places as an archaeologist and would be a middle Eastern character who isn't evil for once
It is a team game
valid terrace
Not Wrecking Ball?
worthy rose
Not wrecking ball 🎱... but it is cute
terse oar
All the Hammond speculation takes me back...
terse oar
Any new hero was either Doomfist or Hammond 
peak escarp
or both
worthy rose
Haha yeah .. especially the doom fist was actually a nice new hero
peak escarp
there were some people who thought Hammond was Doomfist . . . a chimp wielding the gauntlet
terse oar
I’m still surprised a guy on reddit pieced together that Hammond was a hamster
worthy rose
Some people have real passion about lore I guess xD
Tbh I kinda understand, I tend to like mythology as a kid
terse oar
The lore is really interesting, especially since there’s so many holes in it
peak escarp
I didnt think he was a chimp, but I did think he was still in the primate family
like a lemur or something
worthy rose
I thought he was a small chimp haha
Since primates are the ones most commonly used for experiments
Also yeah .. lore has so many holes which is interesting to be completed
But it is not nice not knowing much about dva
peak escarp
holes?
peak escarp
plot holes and loose ends aren't the same thing
valid terrace
You mean story threads?
You know this game is moving forward right?
That's how story works
worthy rose
Yeah I know .. story progresses as time goes by
I wonder when they will release the ow2
peak escarp
probably next year
worthy rose
Do we have to buy it ? Since I have the ow1
valid terrace
If you want the pve then you need the new one
But all the new maps and characters are being added to ow1
As well as keeping the servers combined
worthy rose
And every every skin will past to ow2 ? Since I have the pink mercy , it would be terrible to lose that
peak escarp
yes, all your cosmetics will carry over
worthy rose
Nice xD
Btw thanks everyone for the lore help :), this server is more friendly than I remember.. I am to come back for more lore some other time
worthy rose
Basically you have to buy OW2
And then you have to buy the expansion for the lore and their new looks
terse oar
You don’t have to buy an expansion if you buy OW2
valid terrace
You also don't need to buy ow2 to keep playing
The servers, maps, and characters will all be the same for both ow2 and ow1
You just won't get the new designs and pve content afaik
clear nest
I’m hoping it isn’t too expensive
valid terrace
Probably 40-60 dollars
terse oar
It’ll probably be either $40 (cost of the base OW1) or $60 (standard AAA price)
People who say “wHy iS IT $40/$60 wE ShoULd gET iT frEe,” don’t realize that some people don’t own OW1, and that there will be new players
clear nest
I just don’t want $60 for ow2 and then $20 for the expansion
valid terrace
Also if we got as much content as they're adding without it being paid, there would almost certainly be extra micro transactions all over the place
Ow2 is the expansion wym
terse oar
Like paid DLC in OW2
clear nest
And then you have to buy the expansion for the lore and their new looks
???
terse oar
Blizzard typically just makes new editions rather than (paid) DLC
lament prawn
I just don’t want $60 for ow2 and then $20 for the expansion
what expansion?
you buy OW2, you get the new looks and PvE
you dont buy OW2, you still get the heroes/maps/engine upgrades, just no new looks or PvE
clear nest
Basically you have to buy OW2, and then you have to buy the expansion for the lore and their new looks
I got confused
lament prawn
yeah thats not right
terse oar
That’d be the most schilliest business model ever
limpid agate
All the confusion is at least a testament to the confusing announcement and marketing.
lament prawn
yeah, the announcement in terms of what OW2 is and what it isnt could have been clearer and more defined
terse oar
They probably wanted to keep it vague to stir hype
limpid agate
Its not "stirring hype"
Its confusing people and making a lot of people hate it because they don't understand it
terse oar
Well that’s what I assume was their intention
And as we can clearly see, that did not work very well lol
lament prawn
the very first time they showed the trailer, the concepts of "story missions" and "hero missions" werent defined to us, and my friends said "the story is just gonna be on all the same maps..?"
i think the general public looked no further than the trailer and cinematic, so a lot of the concepts and content plans weren't defined to them
terse oar
I mean, I don’t think most people want to watch the little presentations
So some clarifications aren’t very well spread
limpid agate
Even they didn't do a good job
peak escarp
the content is equivalent to a whole new game
OW2 will contain all of OW, plus new a new PvE game with 2 modes made using the OW engine
people call it DLC/an expansion because they underestimate the amount of content the PvE mode will have
they assume it will be just like the Archives missions
fringe blade
I'm not sure what to even call it, honestly
The amount of content it will have would be equivalent to a new game, but its theoretically still the same game
Just designed a bit differently
fringe blade
I mean, in the sense of how OW2 and OW2:Story will be related
Because its still based around the same game
So its not a brand new title
limpid agate
sounds like every other fps sequel
peak escarp
so if it was titled something like Overwatch: Zero Hour
people wouldnt have a problem with it
peak escarp
but because there's a 2, it can't be a new game
call it a sequel
because it is a sequel
peak escarp
its a sequel bundled with the original game
fringe blade
OW2 is still a new game, different from 1
peak escarp
it's also a sequel in the story sense, as a sequel to the Recall storyline
fringe blade
So its a sequel, yes
But what do you call the relationship between OW2 and the Story mode?
Is it an expansion, a DLC, etc.
limpid agate
We are getting a pair of expansion packs marketed as a single sequel
One of them is free for OW1 players
The other one you need to pay for
That is how I view it
fringe blade
Well, OW2 isn't really an expansion pack per se
Its built on a new engine AFAIK
Or an overhaul of the old one, anyway
limpid agate
OW1 players are getting that upgrade too
fringe blade
I suppose that's fair
peak escarp
there isnt really a word for what it is - it's a sequel to the story and an expansion/upgrade to the base game and a DLC of new heroes and maps
fringe blade
Its really an update too, if you think about it
But marketed as a new game
Even though its a large enough update to be considered a new title
peak escarp
that's why Jeff said they're redefining what a sequel is
fringe blade
Its quite confusing, ngl
fringe blade
I wonder if the story mode download will be bundled with the normal game download
fringe blade
I've seen both things happen, so I dunno
But Activision Blizzard do have a history of doing that, so I guess that's how it will be
fringe blade
Anyway, I have a lot of expectations for this game
peak escarp
we all do
fringe blade
2021 will be a crazy year for new game releases
peak escarp
I think they'll do a good job of it
peak escarp
couldn't be any worse than Storm Rising
peak escarp
Storm Rising had good banter
we got a lot of info out of it
in Uprising the banter was all about the mission, and Retribution was mostly McCree whining
but Storm Rising had banter that told us about their personal lives
fringe blade
Eh, fair enough
I just felt that it was weaker than Retribution and Uprising overall
vocal nymph
i will be happy if ow2 finally gives me zen lore
peak escarp
it will
grand wedge
Sooooooooo
Amazon just referenced a new Overwatch novel for june 2021
In the years after the Omnic Crisis, the American Southwest is ruled by vultures looking to profit off the chaos. The West is ripe for the taking, and Elizabeth Caledonia Ashe intends to write her name across it.
When Ashe is arrested yet again on the morning of her high school graduation, her aloof, old-money parents decide to disinherit her from the family fortune. To steal back what's rightfully hers, Ashe teams up with her omnic butler, B.O.B., and local ruffian Jesse McCree for a series of heists, catapulting the trio into a game of fast money and dangerous alliances. Along the way, Ashe discovers that family isn't just about blood. It's about the people who've got your back when your back's against the wall.
Full of high-octane chases and action-packed stand-offs, the second novel for Overwatch explores the founding of the Deadlock Gang and the origins of fan-favorite heroes Ashe and McCree. Don't miss this incredible, original story straight from the Overwatch game team and critically acclaimed author Lyndsay Ely. ```Deadlock lore incoming, yeah!
limpid agate
Its from Amazon France
So you can't reverse search it because its translated from English.
fringe blade
Hm
Might be doing something wrong, but can't find it on there either
The listing might've been removed
swift mason
Maybe send the link for them? or doesn't that work here
swift mason
ah there we go, thank you
fringe blade
Huh
Interesting
I wonder why its always the awkward leaks like this that happen
Like, a random tweet from a Chinese Blizzard account or a random an Amazon France listing
fringe blade
I mean, it happens on a nearly consistent basis
It takes different forms, but it happens a lot
swift mason
offtopic: I know this is going to sound like a long-shot, but do you think anything OW related might happen in this year's game awards? probably not tbh
fringe blade
As far as I know, Blizzard doesn't really participate in the Game Awards
iron plume
yeah
they haven't so far
lavish ferry
wouldn't it be crazy if overwatch loses the null sector war
fringe blade
I wouldn't hope to get anything until Blizzcon
lavish ferry
talon and overwatch have to team up because null sector is killing everyone but they still lose and every hero dies one by one until overwatch is gone and all hope is lost
fringe blade
Talon has already made a deal with Null Sector
lavish ferry
you can't stop AI, bitch!
fringe blade
No, not really
iron plume
No it would not
fringe blade
A lot of build-up for nothing lol
iron plume
It would be shitty edgelord writing with no resolution
There's value in the good guys having a down period but "everyone dies" isn't a good story
fringe blade
I mean, no one can die in the process
No one from the main cast of the game, anyway
iron plume
Yes, both due to the way the game handles people and to its tone, we're very unlikely to have any heroes die
fringe blade
Though it is an interesting question: how will they tie up the story to make it feel satisfying? There are so many things happening, so many stories to finish and wrap up
iron plume
I'm saying even in a world that's not as optimistic as Overwatch, having everyone die is just poor writing
I don't think they ever plan to "tie it up" completely
As long as the games are made/kept up anyway
fringe blade
Meh, fair enough
iron plume
but there's unlikely to be a moment of everyone crossing over or uniting in one line either way, it'll still be an ensemble cast
fringe blade
I know
swift mason
Yes, both due to the way the game handles people and to its tone, we're very unlikely to have any heroes die
@iron plume But a few years ago didn't someone on the dev team (not sure if it was jeff or chu) make a statement that it is possible that one of the characters will die in the lore, but they will remain playable in the game?
Hold on i'll go find it
cerulean ice
i dont think its nowhere unlikely
its not like killing the character in the story would do anything
its the story
swift mason
Well if a character were to die, my best guess would be reinhardt
cerulean ice
fair
terse oar
I feel like it’d be Winston
cerulean ice
idk, it would just make more sense for rein
the whole "i will never stop fighting till my last breath" thing
swift mason
That, and it makes sense for his arc, his friend taught him to protect the team (then sacrifices himself in a badass way) and so rein might have the possibility to go out in glory. “Live with honour, die with glory”
valid terrace
I don't think Rein can die until we learn the truth about his retirement
terse oar
I’m thinking Winston because we’ve seen how he’ll put himself on the line in Zero Hour to save people
worthy rose
Man I just want an OW campaign relatively soon 😔
terse oar
And depending how cliche they make it, it’d be one of those situations where he’d be a martyr for OW to become legal again
worthy rose
And depending how cliche they make it, it’d be one of those situations where he’d be a martyr for OW to become legal again
@terse oar good idea actually
worthy rose
@worthy rose Yeah me too we need more lore
white cobalt
terse oar
Bob lore 
opaque tundra
Is this confirmed?
terse oar
It says “official” so I presume so
vocal nymph
just want them to tell me why ashe has red eyes 🙃
terse oar
Genetics
unreal tartan
I can't wait for this
hushed jetty
Ooh...
fringe blade
Well, the listing was correct once again
grand wedge
Amazon did the same last year with Hero of Numbani (it was october 4th 2019) - and then they revealed the cover at Blizzcon a month later
elder rose
I think a hero should die in overwatch 2
bring more sadness into the lore
more realistic than ripping of arms and slashing out eyes
lament crane
elder rose
I think we can all miss symettra
although that wouldnt be any sad
i dont want to lose anyone else either
maybe moira
worthy rose
We need the villains to win more
peak escarp
it wasn't sad
peak escarp
it was inspiring
worthy rose
It was not sad lol
peak escarp
Winston sacrificing himself was a little sad, but we knew someone would come in to save him
because it's a story about heroes
elder rose
as they made you think winston was gonna sacrifice, which was the intention as well from blizzard
we knew that
vocal nymph
Wonder how they will kill a character off. 🤔
peak escarp
they won't
elder rose
but because they made it sad, they could follow up with something as beautiful as that cavalry arriving
peak escarp
unless it's someone like Bastion, who can be rebuilt
elder rose
i mean, it would be pretty boring if they just showed up when they landed the ship
worthy rose
Hope they kill a character off it makes the villains more competent
peak escarp
they didn't show up right away because there has to be conflict
elder rose
thats also what made the last bastion, honor and glory so good
because of those moments
so more sadness is only good
overkill is not good ofc
peak escarp
it's very unlikely any hero will die in the story
worthy rose
They are gonna make the villains look incompotent lol
elder rose
risky
peak escarp
but if they did, the hero would still be playable in the game
vocal nymph
What if they kill off a non playable character like emily. Oh god, if they kill her off people gonna get mad
worthy rose
Why would people be mad about Emily's death?
peak escarp
because she's Tracer's girlfriend
worthy rose
So?
elder rose
I mean, when they killed Balderich von Adler... not a hero but that sht made that cinematic so f'ing good
vocal nymph
peak escarp
because people like Emily, and they'd be mad if she got killed off
Tracer and Widowmaker hate each other
elder rose
Never seen emily
besides the comics
tracer and widow got some close interactions
like Alive
kiss already
peak escarp
where they tried to kill each other
elder rose
yes
worthy rose
Please no
elder rose
that short
elder rose
?
peak escarp
this is not the place to discuss shipping
elder rose
ye idk what he is saying
peak escarp
you too
elder rose
but widow tracer is best match
peak escarp
no
elder rose
yes
peak escarp
they are enemies
peak escarp
the lore is that they hate each other
peak escarp
people who hate each other are not "best match"
worthy rose
I think Widow is just apathetic to Tracer
worthy rose
Thankfully it will never happen EVER
elder rose
i mean, the internet clearly agrees with tracer and widow
worthy rose
Yes I agree
elder rose
so
vocal nymph
"Clearly" bold statement
worthy rose
Filled with wierdos and furries and ugh
peak escarp
the internet also thinks that Mercy resurrected Reaper and that Brigitte is Reinhardt's daughter
they can be wrong about things
worthy rose
People still believe that?
peak escarp
and often are
elder rose
internet also thinks emily and tracer are girlfriend and girlfriend
peak escarp
because they are
elder rose
right, so its not wrong
worthy rose
They are though
peak escarp
I don't know what point you're trying to make
peak escarp
my point is that just because the internet thinks something, doesn't make it true
they can believe things that are true, but it's not true because they believe it
it's true because there are sources
unborn mist
I low key know nothing about the lore
peak escarp
!!loreguide
twilit nacelleBOT
This is a guide for people who don't know where to begin with the lore of Overwatch. The first thing is probably to go watch the shorts. They're popular, easy to consume, and pack a lot of story and character.
Shorts Playlist: https://bit.ly/2UQyTeL
There are many comics, short stories, and blog posts as well. The most important ones are:
Binary: https://bit.ly/2IzNvJy
Masquerade: https://bit.ly/2IzNTI0
What You Left Behind: https://bit.ly/2Fh7MRz
There is also an important chain of events following Ana and Soldier 76 (and Mercy at the end):
Legacy: https://bit.ly/2DgM1jQ
Old Soldiers: https://bit.ly/2KLILTV
Bastet: https://bit.ly/2QuXHmM
Valkyrie: https://bit.ly/2CF5JVE
The rest of the stories are mostly optional. Special mention goes out to the Junkers, who have an entertaining string of stories:
Wasted Land: https://bit.ly/2DeKB9G
A Moment in Crime: http://bit.ly/2fMsVYB
Going Legit: https://bit.ly/2InZUkm
The Plan: http://bit.ly/2uZiitC
vocal nymph
Ow2 seems so far away, just give more lore
vocal nymph
Will the next comic have another skin? 🤔
peak escarp
probably not
worthy rose
Idk
peak escarp
that's when the halloween event should start
worthy rose
Will there be skins for all heroes?
worthy rose
Oh
limpid agate
@elder rose For future reference, this is a channel for lore discussion, not for crack ships which will result in a loss of access.
elder rose
@limpid agate okay ill move the discussions to #overwatch
limpid agate
I would advice against that.
valid terrace
#overwatch is for discussion of the game in how it's played, mostly over mechanics and compositions, #general-discussion is better for that kind of thing
unreal tartan
Have we gotten any more lore about the junkertown queen since what we heard about her for the release of the map?
peak escarp
nope
unreal tartan
The amount of open threads they have for the lore is definitely a double edged sword
On one hand it means that there are a ton of things to explore in the upcoming game, but it also means that weaving it all together in a coherent way is difficult
peak escarp
I think they've done a good job of it so far
leaving things open lets them pick up threads later on, without being stuck with something they said ages ago
unreal tartan
I hope we eventually get to see what Sombra's conspiracy web is about
My personal head-canon is that the center point has something to do with the Iris, hence why it's an eye
vocal nymph
Yall think the junkerqueen is going to be tank, dps, or support? I agree so many threads of lore, my god. Whats Sombra conspiracy web?
fringe blade
- Probably a dps or tank
- The Eye Conspiracy, a conspiracy discovered by Sombra (a company or group which has ties to a largely unknown amount of other organizations and people around the world)
There's a lot of theories about what it is and whatnot, but we haven't received any official confirmation
Her discovery of the web put her in the attention of the unknown group, which was the reason that she went into hiding and left her identity behind
Her quest as Sombra began (and still is) to discover who really runs the world
peak escarp
personally I think there is no conspiracy
vocal nymph
Her quest as Sombra began (and still is) to discover who really runs the world
@fringe blade
Well thats fairly obvious, girls
peak escarp
I think Sombra just thinks there is, because she's paranoid
opaque tundra
my opinion is the opposite: i think the conspiracy is really important to the lore
fringe blade
Honestly, I've thought of that too
I've always thought that she used the Conspiracy as an excuse to herself and others to fuel her hacking spree
Rationalize what she was doing
worthy rose
No one really rules the world
It’s just the Prez
For all the countries and continents
limpid agate
Yall think the junkerqueen is going to be tank, dps, or support? conspiracy web?
@vocal nymph She is a gladitorial mech champion.
We do not know what to expect exactly
But that is quite literally the crux of the gameplay potential we know
People like to post that she is a melee character, but that is based on her poster, which shows her holding something with a long handle (like a spear or axe)
But could just as easily be something else entirely
hexed lotus
do we know what gibralta was for
isnt that where reaper massacred something
or where he became reaper
peak escarp
Watchpoint: Gibraltar was an Overwatch base
unreal tartan
There was the incident at the Swiss headquarters, a fight broke out between Morrison and Reyes, leading to their "deaths" and the destruction of said headquarters. It's suspected that foul play was involved, possibly from an outside organization @hexed lotus
That's the general idea, there are other people here who know the details better than I if you want to know more
limpid agate
@unreal tartan That's not what they asked
They were asking about Gibraltar
Which is just an Overwatch Watchpoint
unreal tartan
They were asking about the incident where reaper became reaper though
limpid agate
Which is also where Winston currently is
unreal tartan
But I know what you mean
limpid agate
Neither Gibraltar nor the Swiss HQ are a place where " reaper massacred something"
unreal tartan
That was the incident where Reyes "died," after which the reaper became active, hence "or where he became reaper"
fringe blade
No, Reyes 'died' at the Swiss HQ, not at Watchpoint: Gibraltar
clear nest
what happened to Swiss HQ? Did it explode or something? If so how did Reyes survive it and get to Moira so she could “save” him
swift mason
Moira gave reyes his wraith powers before the explosion, he got to use them in Retribution
swift mason
More or less
Im sure there's more detail that the true lore masters can give as to how reyes turned to reaper
but from my own knowledge, yes thats how he survived
terse oar
We don’t have a definitive answer, but that is a likely one
It could also be their Super Soldier alterations, as Morrison was also able to survive
swift mason
The super-soldier enhancement gave them the ability to regenerate wounds very quickly, so that's probably how Jack survived
terse oar
Idk about the regeneration part, but it gave them practically perfect endurance and strength
And seeing as he survived a point-blank grenade in “Hero,” I assume their pretty dang sturdy
swift mason
Im pretty sure I read somewhere in either Bastet or Valkyrie that Jack's wounds were able to heal themselves, I'll go find it
terse oar
I’m using “Fading Glory: On the Trail of Jack Morrison” as my source
One of the teasers
swift mason
Found it:
From that range,
it should have killed him, but Jack had certain advantages. His wounds could heal themselves—a legacy of his past as a test subject and an enhanced
soldier in the American armed
forces.
terse oar
Ahhh
Then yeah, all these different factors probably let him survive
Makes me wonder what the tests actually were (we know they were controversial and secret)
limpid agate
@clear nest We don't know the details of the Reaper transformation. We just have a bunch of pieces and clues. The Swiss HQ explosion was the "death" of Gabriel Reyes, and Moira "saved" his life in a way that helped in his transition to the Reaper. She was also already working on his genetics as early as Retribution.
@swift mason @terse oar Meanwhile, Soldier 76 and Reaper were both members of the Soldier Enhancement Program. Its unknown if they received the same or different upgrades, but its likely they were both enhanced the same way. Enhanced strength, stamina, and natural regeneration.
terse oar
Yee, we got those part
limpid agate
Reaper's condition is some kind of cellular regeneration and disintegration he can control. Cellular regeneration is a known effect of Soldier 76's enhancement, and it is related to Moira's genetic work.
So all of these pieces combined with the Swiss HQ result in the main theory of the Reaper's condition.
limpid agate
No
peak escarp
Moira was studying cellular regeneration
limpid agate
Soldier and Reaper are related to the Soldier Enhancement Program
terse oar
Yes
limpid agate
Soldier is not related to Moira
terse oar
Ok, your wording just confused me a little
limpid agate
But her research and the effects of the SEP are related. Both are cellular regeneration.
terse oar
I wonder what the actual experiments were...
I highly doubt it’s a simple shot or pill
fringe blade
We don't really know
Its some sort of manipulation on a cellular level
We haven't really received any details
terse oar
I honestly doubt we ever will
terse oar
distant field
i have a question for yall
who's the most powerful hero/villain in lore?
not powerful in terms of wealth or something, just who would emerge victorious in a fight
cerulean ice
i dont rlly get it but sigma overall for sure
-- is the most powerful in the ow universe
terse oar
Probably either Sigma or Reaper
I say either because Sigma wouldn’t really engage unless provoked
cerulean ice
so after 3 shots fired he wouldnt still try to fight back
he can rip reaper easily
keen zephyr
NOOT NOOT!
cerulean ice
idk why yall put echo in the list
her duplication isnt 100% accurate
she cant construct hardlight like sym
she cant go poof shadow clouds like reaper
she cant go zip zip blink like tracer
worthy rose
Most powerful?Imo Reaper
Or Echo but we don't know anything about her
So I'll stick with my answer
clear nest
to determine who the strongest character is we need to know their limits and canon abilities, and for some characters (afaik) we don’t know much about their abilities
cerulean ice
man just outburst his regen
peak escarp
Symmetra could just trap him in a hard-light box