lore-discussion

[dapper patrol]

symmetra

those are not latin based

[young knoll]

maybe Blizzard is biased towards names like that in other cultures

on the assumption it is due to Latin remnants

anyway, a bit off topic

[dapper patrol]

even Echo ... it was Mina her designer :3

But i dont think this is a hint on anything though

Now waiting for more overwatch lore character to show up

[peak escarp]

I've seen a lot of theories that put the mystery omnic at the center of everything

as like, behind Null Sector, the omnics attacking Russia AND the gwishin

I really don't think Null Sector is related to either of them

omnics aren't monolithic, they aren't all working together

[dapper patrol]

If you ask me i think each hive/factory is on their own

on top of that omnic have some degree of autonomous thinking, ranging from human like to just a walking tree.

so the mystery omnic eye can be ONE of those things, one of the big leader entity

I do not think what sombra sees, is the same as what the omnic monks are seeing.

[peak escarp]

I think the eye is metaphorical, not literal

[dapper patrol]

Well for sombra it is just a digital image.

That is under the assumption all those things are reality that happened and not sombra telling a story

[swift mason]

I mean ashe is fine for a non antag boss and is cute (dont start me on not having an a at the end of name for a female)
@dapper patrol My actual name ends with an A, and I'm female, so idk what your point is

[fringe blade]

there's a ton of female names that end with an a

ashe doesn't even have one lol

[hot heart]

Ashen

[fringe blade]

Unless you mean Caledonia, which is a family name AFAIK

[limpid agate]

Ashe is her family name

Caledonia is her middle name

[fringe blade]

Ah

Yea

[hot heart]

What's her first name

[fringe blade]

Elizabeth

[hot heart]

Ah Elizabeth

[fringe blade]

Yea

[hot heart]

So it's th

[fringe blade]

Elizabeth Caledonia Ashe

[limber wolf]

My favorite female name in the roster is Brigitte

I find it kinda inspires sturdiness and resilience

[unreal tartan]

Elizabeth Caledonia "Calamity" Ashe

[pliant sparrow]

Was it the or14s or 15s that were destroyed by doom

[lament prawn]

15s

[worthy rose]

a heard an interesting chat between lucio and ana last night

err not ana symmetra

“my father told me about how vishkar used him” -lucio

“clearly your father never told you the stories. he was an employee” -symmetra

“they will use you! just wait and see!” -lucio

kinda lines up some backstory with lucio

[cerulean ice]

ye l8

[toxic venture]

@limpid agate I agree with this but I don’t think the characters are very Interesting

Gamamed and bastion might be the most interesting because of their juxtaposition of polar opposites but they don’t do anything with it

And a lot of the characters don’t have anything to do with each other

And half the roster has nothing to do with overwatch it just feels like they have written it as they go

And they don’t even relate to each other

[valid terrace]

Its meant to be an ensemble cast

Where every character can be a favorite of someone else

[limpid agate]

And half the roster has nothing to do with overwatch
@toxic venture
I actually see this as a good thing rather than a bad thing.

And Blizzard has been pretty good about how they have been introducing unaligned characters post-launch

They used the initial roster to introduce a bunch of factions such as MEKA or Helix or Junkertown, and then they use the post-launch story and development to expand on that.

So far, none of the post-launch heroes have just sprung up from some new group we've never heard of. Its all either Talon, Overwatch, or a faction that we have heard of and have been given sufficient reason to expect a hero related to it (Like Orisa/Numbani or Ashe/Deadlock)

If you don't like the characters, that's fine.

But they've done a pretty good job with handling the development so far. The last character that sprung out of nowhere and introduced a faction for no reason was D.Va. But since she was pre-launch, I'd say that's fine.

[mystic salmon]

Just got finished reading the London calling comic with tracer. Pretty good so far.

[pliant sparrow]

How many episodes are out so far?

[hushed jetty]

Just the first one

[peak escarp]

the next one will be in a couple weeks

[sick siren]

What is the backpack on Moira's back? Does it have a purpose or is it just - science liquid

[mystic salmon]

Gum

She chews a lot of gum

[limpid agate]

!!shitposting @mystic salmon

[twilit nacelle]

@mystic salmon Shitposting will result in a loss of access.

[limpid agate]

@sick siren It's supposed to contain her biotic fluid.

[mystic salmon]

Sorry

@twilit nacelle Sorry

[worthy rose]

Next Tracer Comic is going to be where she meets Mondatta and the other omnic leader that doesn’t like humans much

So now I know for sure this takes place before Alive

[terse oar]

Could it be the Storm Rising Omnic

[hushed jetty]

It could be, especially since we don't know much about them.

This would be a good way to reveal exactly how they contribute to the story.

[slender crypt]

I'm fairly sure Maximillien was still working things out with talon at the time, and it should be a few years before Alive.

[peak escarp]

what's a few years before Alive?

[slender crypt]

the new tracer comic

[peak escarp]

its not

[terse oar]

It’s not though...

It’s within like a week of Alive

[peak escarp]

Jeff talked about it in the dev update

the rally that the preview mentions is the one he gets assassinated at

[slender crypt]

I just wanna learn more about rein's 'retirement' tbh, i think all we knew was that ana had something to do with it.

[terse oar]

We don’t know that either actually

We can only infer it wasn’t a simple “retirement”

[slender crypt]

it's not, all we really know is that ana's 'death' had something to do with Reinhardt's retirement,

[peak escarp]

source?

[terse oar]

That’s only theorized

We just infer it wasn’t a simple retirement from the Brigitte/Sombra interaction

[peak escarp]

if Reinhardt retired because of Ana's death I don't think Sombra would be so shady about it

[slender crypt]

i don't think he simply retired because of Ana's death, there were definetly bigger parts at play here

[terse oar]

We don’t know any causes of it

We can only theorize

[slender crypt]

i don't even think it was a retirement tbh

[terse oar]

That’s what we’ve been saying lol

[peak escarp]

the only thing we know is that he was forced to retire, and the public knowledge about it is that he was forced to retire due to his age

but there's more to it than that that we don't know

[slender crypt]

hoping in OW2 we actually find out

can't wait till 2025 when we actually get the game though, jk i don't know the release date XD

[peak escarp]

Having served into his late fifties, Reinhardt was faced with mandatory retirement from combat operations. Despondent about being removed from active duty, Reinhardt feared that his days of purpose and glory had ended.

by "public knowledge" I mean what's in his bio

[terse oar]

I don’t think it’s release time will be that long since most assets are made compared to OW1 launch

[slender crypt]

i just hope it isn't $60

[peak escarp]

OW2 will probably be some time next year

[terse oar]

I’m thinking around the Anniversary event to keep the dates the same, and it’d be rather poetic

It will be $60

[slender crypt]

ew

[peak escarp]

it's a full game

why not?

[terse oar]

You have to keep in mind some people don’t have OW1, so they’re getting that content as well

[slender crypt]

didn't OW1 launch for $40?

[peak escarp]

depends on the platform

[terse oar]

Well now there’s a PvE and stuff, so $60 would fit well

[peak escarp]

on console it's $60

[slender crypt]

PC specifically cause that's where the main player base is

[terse oar]

That kinda hurt as an Xbox player... but yes on PC, normal edition was $40

The origins edition with the special skins made it $60

[peak escarp]

then it will probably be the same price

[slender crypt]

i mean, all they're really doing is 'remastering' Overwatch with more content and spruced up graphics, but hey i'm not their pricing staff

[peak escarp]

with different versions, like Origins Edition

[terse oar]

The reason it’s a whole new game is because of the refined engine for PvE

[slender crypt]

Honestly if i buy OW2 it's gonna be for the lore

[peak escarp]

and adding new maps and heroes and a whole two PvE modes

[terse oar]

So I think it’ll be $60 since you get both the PvP and PvE

That’s the main selling point of OW2 is the lore/PvE

[slender crypt]

and if they add sojourn because she's quickly becoming one of my favorite characters not in OW

[terse oar]

Soujourn is confirmed a new hero

[slender crypt]

okay nvm i'm buying OW2 XD

[terse oar]

They showed her (at least a highlight intro anyway)

[slender crypt]

Future Soujourn main over here

[terse oar]

You do know that OW1 is getting the same PvP elements right?

So if you’re wanting Soujourn for PvP, you don’t need to buy OW2

[slender crypt]

oh thank god they're adding the characters to OW1

[terse oar]

The only things OW2 is getting as of now is the PvE mode and the new designs

[slender crypt]

i can't wait for the update size though lmao

[terse oar]

Expect existing heroes and functions to change as well, since this is their big opportunity

[slender crypt]

so they're basically making 2 of the same game?

except OW2 being for lore junkies?

[terse oar]

OW2 also gets the new hero designs

That’s all we know so far, but I’m sure there will be other benefits

[slender crypt]

but yeah i'm just glad they're not making it mandatory to buy OW2

[terse oar]

Another note: data is transferred to OW2 if you do buy it

So you’ll keep your cosmetics and stats

[slender crypt]

eh, i'll just stick with OW1 tbh

[peak escarp]

you can still know the lore without playing the game

[slender crypt]

I mean, i like the lore but i can always watch like a youtube video to get the context OW2

[peak escarp]

playing is just more fun

[unreal tartan]

I wonder if players will have the option to use the old character designs in ow2

[terse oar]

The PvE looks fun to me, so I’ll probably get it

They most likely will

[unreal tartan]

Cause all the cosmetics should transfer over right?

[terse oar]

Yes

[slender crypt]

it's basically the same game with better graphics and more PVE content

[terse oar]

The HUD is different in OW2 as well, but you’ll probably be able to switch it

[unreal tartan]

Do we know of every character is getting a redesign?

*existing hero

[terse oar]

Every current hero is getting one

[slender crypt]

let's just hope they fix hog's hook

for once

[terse oar]

They’ve shown so far:
Lucio
Mercy
Mei
Tracer
Winston
Genji
Torbjorn
Bastion
Reinhardt

For the new designs

[slender crypt]

ah yes

figher jet bastion

[brave ravine]

was the question about visual or mechanical redesigns?

[terse oar]

I can not post a picture, but bastion has Torbjorns IronClad hat and Ganymede-pattern shoulders

[unreal tartan]

From a canonical standpoint bastion getting a redesign is kinda strange

[slender crypt]

it's necessary

[unreal tartan]

Visual redesigns

[slender crypt]

bastion is one of the worst heroes rn

[terse oar]

Well it met with Torbjorn last appearance, so it wouldn’t be to far fetched

Torbjorn designed weapons, so I’m sure he can redesign a Bastion unit

[unreal tartan]

I like the idea of bastion getting fixed up by torb

[slender crypt]

he literally designed payloads to explode on things

he's one of the best smithers for a reason

[terse oar]

Torbjorn designed a lot of of different combat omnics and weapons which he regrets

Since they were used in the Omnic Crisis and killed people

[slender crypt]

yep, which is the main reason Zarya hates torb, or strongly dislikes him-

[unreal tartan]

It’s very poetic then that he’s helping bastion

[slender crypt]

ironic

[terse oar]

You can read the comic “Binary” for more details

[slender crypt]

he hates omnics but is helping bastion, since he's an omnic

[terse oar]

He helped Bastion because he realized that it’s personality was different

It ran away when they shot at it, and it didn’t retaliate

[slender crypt]

well, Bastion is peaceful compared to other omnics

[terse oar]

Exactly, it’s unique

That’s why Torbjorn is helping it

[slender crypt]

though he still occasionally goes back to his original programming though i think torb helped with that ai stuff

i also love how Pharah and d.va don't want torb to fix/upgrade their suits/mechs even though torb could easily make them better

[terse oar]

To be fair, they’re quite comfortable with their equipment, and I wouldn’t want that to be potentially ruined

[slender crypt]

True true, but we've already seen the trouble D.va's mech had in combat via the Rising Star cinematic.. but again that could be contributed to D.va's hotheadedness at the time

[terse oar]

That was mainly the enemy just having the advantage

She was outnumbered and unprepared

[slender crypt]

true, i'm also wondering if D.va would ever join overwatch, but probably not considering her own problems in Busan.

[terse oar]

She probably will make an appearance in the PvE

Most likely scenario is that OW has to take down the Gwishin with Dva

[slender crypt]

Or an omnic situation is happening in the city that d.va wasn't aware of?

[terse oar]

Korea hasn’t really be cited as having major omnic/human conflict, it’s mainly the Gwishin

[slender crypt]

100% fighter jet bastion

[peak escarp]

Bastion has Torb's hat from his Ironclad skin

[terse oar]

Huzzah, the pictures I mentioned

[slender crypt]

i like mei's new look tbh

[terse oar]

But yeah Bastion got a hat

[slender crypt]

Winston is just a monkey

[terse oar]

Imma be real, I don’t like Torbjorns

[slender crypt]

and wasn't expecting Lucio there if im being completely honest XD

[terse oar]

Lucio is in what is presumably the first PvE mission

[slender crypt]

also where the hell is brig

[terse oar]

Null Sector is invading Rio

Brigitte does not yet have a shown redesign

[peak escarp]

they haven't shown Brigitte's redesign yet

these are just the ones they've shown

[slender crypt]

i'd assume she'd get one to go along with torb and rein

[peak escarp]

she will

[slender crypt]

cause ya know, family trio!

[peak escarp]

it just wasn't done before Blizzcon

[terse oar]

Genji has been shown, but is not in the picture

He has a hoodie

[lament prawn]

i'd assume she'd get one to go along with torb and rein

all the heroes are getting one

[peak escarp]

even Echo is (probably) getting one

[terse oar]

Even Orisa

[slender crypt]

i like echo's current design

[terse oar]

Which makes canonically little sense

[slender crypt]

if they change that i will probably not be happy

[peak escarp]

Orisa getting a redesign makes sense

[lament prawn]

it makes canonically little sense that all the heroes are giving themselves a makeover at roughly the same time, but thats no reason to not have a redesign

[peak escarp]

if it's Overwatch who gave her some upgrades

[slender crypt]

now they have 2 omnics!

[terse oar]

If that’s the route they go for

It would be cool if you unlocked the redesigns through the PvE

[lament prawn]

the redesigns are base skins for when you purchase OW2

but they did talk about possible unlockable cosmetics from the PvE

[terse oar]

I know, but it’d be cool for progression

[hushed jetty]

I really want to see Baptiste's redesign

[slender crypt]

i wonder what Soujourn's playstyle would be, i'd assuming she'd be a mobile character

[hushed jetty]

Though maybe I'm just biased 😗

[terse oar]

I would love to see Baptiste and Sigma

[lament prawn]

she did slide in her highlight intro, and she seems to have a mini jetpack

[terse oar]

Soujourn is most likely a DPS

[slender crypt]

she'd 100% be dps

[terse oar]

She got a gun arm, wonder what that’ll do

[hushed jetty]

I believe it is confirmed that she is a DPS but I don't have a source on that

[slender crypt]

i'd love to see the interactions between her and Tracer's strike team

[terse oar]

I don’t think they said, but cmon... she’s a DPS

[swift mason]

I would like to see reaper’s redesign, I wanna know how they make an already cool base skin even cooler

[hushed jetty]

YES. Reaper's redesign.

[terse oar]

Give him a bigger hoodie

[slender crypt]

you know a design i'd like to see?

Zenyatta

[hushed jetty]

Ooh, yes

[slender crypt]

he needs a more mysterious design

[swift mason]

I reckon zen would have a book 3 aang redesign

[terse oar]

The redesigns so far seem to either be more bulky or more streamlined

But seeing as Zenyatta is technically half naked, it’ll be interesting to see how it looks

[lament prawn]

they seem to all be more streamlined tbh

[slender crypt]

am i the only one who doesn't really like Mercy's redesign?

[terse oar]

Imo Torbjorns isn’t that great

[swift mason]

Torb is more casual

[hushed jetty]

I think Rein's beard looks weird-

[slender crypt]

i mean, after getting your arm torn off, what do you really have to lose XD

[terse oar]

I wonder what they’ll do for Widow

[slender crypt]

probably just add more tattoos on her

tbh

[terse oar]

She’s already pretty streamlined

[slender crypt]

give her longer hair

i wonder what ana's redesign would look like

[swift mason]

I reckon she’ll have shorter hair

[terse oar]

Solider

[slender crypt]

i wanna see hanzo's redesign

[swift mason]

I think hanzo’s redesign will be loosely based on his winter wonderland skin

[slender crypt]

nipple hanzo

XD

[terse oar]

What if Hanzo also gets a hoodie

[swift mason]

Same hair probably, but with more casual/battle attire

[terse oar]

I’m more interested in what the weapons will look like since the current ones are already so detailed

[slender crypt]

i wonder how'd they do Hammond's redesign

[hushed jetty]

Hammond wears a shirt

[slender crypt]

probably just make the mech more colorful

or add deeper shades of blue/grey

[swift mason]

GIVE HAMMOND TINY GOGGLES FOR ON TOP OF HIS HEAD

[slender crypt]

scientist hammond skin

[lament prawn]

hammond can go in literally any direction, last we heard he left junkertown and went "adventuring" so they can do anything with him

[slender crypt]

yes

[terse oar]

Hammond could match Winston with white and gray

[slender crypt]

i really wanna see a mech battle between D.va and Hammond

[terse oar]

With a little yellow

[slender crypt]

actually nvm now that i think about it, Hammond would 100% destroy d.va in a mech battle

[terse oar]

Honestly so many of the hero designs are so fitting right now, I don’t know what to expect with the new designs

[slender crypt]

probably just add like more colors or spruce some things up

[lament prawn]

the redesigns dont really change the essence of the hero

[slender crypt]

i want more red in Reaper's design though

[hushed jetty]

I hope Doomfist gets an actual shirt.

[slender crypt]

nah i like doomfist the way he is now

[lament prawn]

they maintain the same theme and colors, just a slight upgrade or story involvement

[slender crypt]

he doesn't really need to change besides maybe updating his gauntlet

[hushed jetty]

I doubt they'd update the gauntlet. That would be a little hard to explain story-wise, i think

[terse oar]

Not really

Over the years the gauntlet has been upgraded and changed

[lament prawn]

imagine redesigning doomfist and not altering the fist

can easily be explained as technical upgrades

but why would it need explaining at all, everyone's getting redesigned

[terse oar]

Do we know if the Heroes of the Storm quotes are canon?

I’m pretty sure they are

[peak escarp]

they aren't

[terse oar]

Darn, they’re quite funny

[worthy rose]

I thought heroes of the storm and ow were like in the same universe/multiverse thing

I thought that cause of “dragons of the nexus”

[peak escarp]

Heroes of the Storm isn't canon to Overwatch

it's like an AU

[swift mason]

Hey do we know the name of Orisa's dog?

[hot heart]

Orisa has a dog?

[swift mason]

In her emotes in-game, there is one where she opens a present, and low and behold, a puppy was within

The dog also appears in one of her victory poses too

[hot heart]

Brig also has one

[swift mason]

Brig has a cat

The cat (also known as Jetpack cat) is called Mitzi (I think)

But I wanna know what the name of Orisa's puppy is

[cerulean ice]

no one knows

lol

[cosmic crest]

Brig's cat is bloody massive.

[cerulean ice]

chonk

[rough root]

winston is a thicc scientist

[grand wedge]

Orisa doesn't have a dog in Hero of Numbani

[peak escarp]

the dog probably isn't canon

[terse oar]

Brigittes cat I think is a Norwegian Forest Cat

[peak escarp]

the white cat (Mitzi) was around when she was a kid

so either that cat is incredibly old for a cat (14 years at least) or it's dead

they do have a different cat (orange tabby) that can be seen in Reflections

[terse oar]

Assuming I’m right, Norwegian Forest Cats typically live 14-16 years

So I guess it could still be alive

[worthy rose]

I don’t think Orisa has a dog in lore

Probably just added as well, you guessed it, a emote, victory pose

[swift mason]

It probably isn't canon you're right, but I still want to know if it has a name, if it doesn't, oh well

[peak escarp]

the devs admitted that the dog was inspired by this one

https://youtu.be/xfyVtEksnV0

this dog's name is Winston

[young knoll]

I always loved that short

I did think the dog was familiar

[cerulean ice]

oh ive seen that

[fringe blade]

I thought you linked the short about the boy with crutches and the 3 legged dog

Quite a sad short movie

[swift mason]

I looked on the reddit post that addressed this and papa Jeff replied saying that the dog was based of his own Boston terriers

[fringe blade]

Jeff never said anything on Reddit about a dog, or replied to any thread which regarded that topic

[peak escarp]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Overwatch/comments/7jj6pl/orisas_dog_is_based_on_the_one_on_feast_an/dr762uc?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

definitely a boston. i have 2 -- my best buddies. jessie -- our amazing animator -- campaigned to get the emote made and the concession was that as long as the puppy was a boston we were good...

the similarity to Feast is probably coincidental

[fringe blade]

ah

that's my bad

[peak escarp]

https://twitter.com/anhdangerous/status/940674443113664512?s=20

AnhDang🍒 (@anhdangerous)

I say I made the "concept" for puppy but it was based off a real dog, so honestly the puppy basically concepted itself. I just did an Overwatch style pass on it lol.

Likes

145

Twitter

and Anh helped design it

[hot heart]

Wait

I remembered that I sent a message here

[limpid agate]

!!shitposting @hot heart

[twilit nacelle]

@hot heart Shitposting will result in a loss of access.

[hot heart]

[worthy rose]

Did Reaper make his own guns?

[peak escarp]

probably not

[sour pine]

no reason for him to

[worthy rose]

Oh

[sour pine]

he was a normal guy although until moira played with his genes

[peak escarp]

well

he was a supersoldier before that

[worthy rose]

I wouldn't say normal.He was the best soldier in the military

[peak escarp]

he was more like Soldier 76

[sour pine]

that i didnt know

knew he was good at combat but didnt know of him being a super soldier

[peak escarp]

they were both products of the US Army's Soldier Enhancement Program

Gabriel Reyes was Soldier 24, Jack Morrison was Soldier 76

[sour pine]

btw about 76, are his legs bionic as of injury from the omnic wars?

[peak escarp]

no

he just wears armored boots

[sour pine]

legit

[fringe blade]

Is that true?

That's strange, I've always thought he had modifications done to his legs

[peak escarp]

nope

Hanzo, Lucio and Pharah don't either

[terse oar]

The only heroes with prosthetic legs are Junkrat and Genji

[peak escarp]

and possibly Sojourn, we haven't seen clearly yet

[wise tulip]

I'm kind of surprised they were planning to give Mauga rocket launchers instead of dual miniguns when they were trying to create hero 31

I'm sure they've probably scrapped that for him now though since that moveset was instead recycled for sigma

[terse oar]

They probably will give him the mini-guns when he’s inevitably added

My guess though if they don’t is they don’t want him to be exactly like the Heavy Assault

[worthy rose]

Who will win in a battle the Overwatch team or Talon team?

[terse oar]

Are we accounting for all characters or just current heroes

[worthy rose]

Current heroes

[terse oar]

Even if it’s based on lore mechanics rather than gameplay, OW would win simply due to numbers advantage (based off who’s present in Zero Hour)

There’s only 5 Talon heroes lol

[worthy rose]

Actually theres 6.Moira,Sigma,Sombra,Reaper,Doomfist,and Widowmaker

[terse oar]

Even then, that’s still not enough (I forgot about Doomfist )

[worthy rose]

Hmmm yeah Talon probrably gets overwhelmed

Its a good fight though

[terse oar]

Plus chances are Sombra just gonna dip

[worthy rose]

Sombra is kinda a non factor

[terse oar]

Doomfist would put up a fight, but I’m sure the strike team would have learned

[hushed jetty]

sombra is weird. she's talon, and yet she works just for herself

[worthy rose]

Yeah Doomfist and Reaper are their wild cards

[terse oar]

I feel like Sombra knows when to back out of a fight

Tracer could probably distract Widow herself

[stiff hamlet]

Sombra better leave soon if she is. Aren't Doomfist and Repear aware of what she's doing?

[worthy rose]

Yes Reaper figured out Sombra is betraying them

[terse oar]

Reaper and Widow are aware

But she’s still valuable, and losing her could mean a lot

[stiff hamlet]

Yeah

I wonder how things would've been if she joined Overwatch.

[peak escarp]

she has her uses, but they don't trust her

[stiff hamlet]

Instead of Talon

[terse oar]

We don’t have a timeline, but I think it’s safe to assume she joined Talon after OWs fall

[fringe blade]

I thought it was pretty obvious they didn't trust her

[terse oar]

So we don’t know how she’d be in OW

[fringe blade]

And were just using her as much as she was using them

[terse oar]

It’s a symbiotic relationship of sort

Talon uses Sombra as Sombra uses Talon

[fringe blade]

Considering that she did crime from a very young age, I doubt she'd ever join OW

[terse oar]

Even then, she’d probably just use them as well

[fringe blade]

They probably wouldn't even consider her at all

[peak escarp]

she could join them under an alias

they don't know who she is

the world thinks Sombra is a collective, remember?

[terse oar]

“Who is Sombra? You’ll never know...”

-Origin trailer

[stiff hamlet]

Goes to her wiki page.

[fringe blade]

Its interesting that Sombra is probably the most dangerous character in lore

The amount of information that she has access to puts her in the prime position of power

[terse oar]

From a making-chaos point of view, yes

[worthy rose]

Sombra,Reaper,and Doomfist are the most dangerous

[terse oar]

In terms of literally destroying the world, it’s gotta be Sigma

[stiff hamlet]

Couldn't Echo also be pretty dangerous?

[worthy rose]

Sigma can't destroy the world

[fringe blade]

We don't know what Echo can do

Not really, anyway

[peak escarp]

potentially, but I don't think she would actually want to

same with Sigma

he's a nice person, he's just very powerful

[fringe blade]

We know she can fly and has sticky explosives

[terse oar]

Echo was meant to make the world a better place by Liao

So I don’t think she’d really go on a killing spree...

[stiff hamlet]

What if she got into the wrong hands though? Doesn't she act a certain way, based off of what goes on around her? If that makes sense.

[limpid agate]

Got in the wrong hands?

She isn't a tool, she has free will and her own mind

[fringe blade]

She has a personality

She's not an omnic

[limpid agate]

She is not an omnic

[fringe blade]

I missed a not

fuck

[limpid agate]

She has arguably the most advanced AI in the universe

[terse oar]

Echo can copy others mannerisms, but she still has her own personality

[stiff hamlet]

Ah

Alright

That helps.

[fringe blade]

We don't know if her adaptation is part of the lore

[limpid agate]

It is

its in her bio

!!loreHeroes echo

[twilit nacelle]

To learn more, please visit https://playoverwatch.com/en-us/heroes/echo#story

[stiff hamlet]

I don't think it's going to be the main focus though.

[terse oar]

She most likely doesn’t literally copy people

Just their mannerisms

[limpid agate]

And skills

[fringe blade]

That's what I mean

[stiff hamlet]

Also, another random question.

[fringe blade]

I know that she can copy their skills and such, but I mean that her ultimate isn't canon

[limpid agate]

She can replicate McCree or Ana's shooting capabilities or Mercy's first aid or Tracer's pilotinf

[fringe blade]

She doesn't physically recreate the person that she is copying

[terse oar]

Yes that’s what I mean, she doesn’t literally copy people

[fringe blade]

You can see why Overwatch would want her

[stiff hamlet]

What exactly did Jeff mean when he said that Sojourn was going to be at the center of the Overwatch 2 story? I mean, clearly we'll learn more about her, and Overwatch as a whole, since she was one of the original members.

But how much is Overwatch 2 going to focus on her in particular?

[terse oar]

She’ll just be part of the core team

[stiff hamlet]

Aight

And do we know if Torb is going to join?

I forgot what he's doing right now.

[terse oar]

He’ll be present in a mission, but he seems rather grumpy about a recall

It’s been theorized he’ll send Bastion in his place

[stiff hamlet]

Alright

I had another question, but I forgot...

Oh

I heard somewhere that Orisa might join Overwatch at some point. Though I don't know if it's true.

[limpid agate]

Overwatch is the characters in Zero Hour, Lucio, and Sojourn

As far as we knoe

[peak escarp]

the end of Hero of Numbani implies that Orisa and Efi are going to help Overwatch

[limpid agate]

It's teased Orisa will help them in Hero of Numbani, but that she and Efi will head right back home after

[fringe blade]

What does that even mean Taiga

Overwatch is the characters in Zero Hour, Lucio, and Sojourn

[terse oar]

The core team

[stiff hamlet]

They mean the group itself.

[terse oar]

That’s what they mean

[fringe blade]

Ah

That's a weirdly phrased sentence

[limpid agate]

Tracer, Winston, Mei, Genji, Rein, Brig, Echo, Mercy, Lucio, Sojourn

[terse oar]

Most characters in the current roster not part of the core team will probably be present in one mission each

Ex: Orisa, Dva, Zenyatta

[limpid agate]

Some charts will not be in the story at all, such as Junkrat

[stiff hamlet]

Sad

[terse oar]

[fringe blade]

I still hope that there will be side missions which will be solo or 2-player

[limpid agate]

We know Bastion, Torb, and Zen will appear in missions. Orisa is teased to appear. Doomfist is at least in cinematics

[fringe blade]

Like an adventure of Hog and Junk in Australia or somethin

Though that's not very likely

[stiff hamlet]

I just want to see Junker Queen.

[limpid agate]

It's a 4 player game

Not a 2 player game

[stiff hamlet]

Also, is this going to be crossplay?

I really hope it is.

[limpid agate]

Probably not

[fringe blade]

Just because its advertised as a 4 player game means that it will be exclusively 4 player, right?

[peak escarp]

Jeff said they have big plans for Junker Queen, but what that means is unclear

[limpid agate]

It almost certainly will be 4 players only

You might be lucky if you can play with bots

[fringe blade]

I hope not, honestly

Bot AI sucks most of the time

[limpid agate]

Compare to other games of similar genre

Payday, Left 4 Dead, Destiny

[terse oar]

If it means you could play it offline, id be down

[stiff hamlet]

Didn't Jeff say that they wanted Junker Queen to become a playable hero?

[limpid agate]

Destiny is the closest because it's also online only

[stiff hamlet]

Wait, no. That was Mauga.

[limpid agate]

@stiff hamlet Mauga and Queen are both big things they are working on

[terse oar]

Sigma was originally Mauga, but the kit didn’t match the personality

Both Mauga and the Junker Queen will most likely be launch heroes in OW2

[stiff hamlet]

I hope.

I'm more interested in the roles that the new heroes will be. We already know that Sojourn is a damage hero.

Most likely.

I can't see her being a tank.

[terse oar]

Mauga would most likely be a tank

[limpid agate]

Both Mauga and the Junker Queen will most likely be launch heroes in OW2
@terse oar Hard disagree

[terse oar]

[limpid agate]

Junkerqueen has no relevance to the plot

And Mauga doesn't match what we know so far

[stiff hamlet]

Do they have to have relevance to the plot?

[limpid agate]

I think they're both unlikely

[fringe blade]

I would still like to know what Junk's treasure is

I hope that its something cool

[terse oar]

I think Mauga will be since he was originally going to be Sigma

[fringe blade]

Though the idea is seemingly abandoned

[limpid agate]

You will probably get them in post launch content

Though the idea is seemingly abandoned
@fringe blade It isn't. It's just unimportant

[stiff hamlet]

I'm betting on Mauga being one of the launched heroes, more so than Junker Queen.

[terse oar]

Junker Queen has high fan demand, and Jeff said they had plans for her

Agree with Apollo ^

[stiff hamlet]

We might also get a "surprise" character.

Like Ashe.

No one knew about her.

I think.

[fringe blade]

We don't really know if its important or not

[terse oar]

I don’t think every hero will be story related

[fringe blade]

We barely know anything about the treasure at all

[limpid agate]

One sec

[stiff hamlet]

I thought the treasure was just gold or something.

[limpid agate]

Okay I can type faster now

[terse oar]

I remember there was one interview with Jeff where he said “is it actual treasure, or is it information?”

I think it was WIRED or something

[opaque tundra]

might be both honestly

[peak escarp]

He came to notoriety when he discovered an extremely valuable secret in the bones of the omnium. Though few knew the nature of what he found, he was nonetheless pursued by bounty hunters, gangs, and opportunists wherever he went, until he made a deal with the Junker enforcer Roadhog, who grudgingly agreed to be his personal bodyguard in exchange for a fifty-fifty share of the spoils.

[fringe blade]

Though I do remember them trying to split it

Yea, what Doc quoted

So it must be something material and valuable

[peak escarp]

it was never said to be a treasure or anything tangible, people just assume it is because that's what's valuable to them

[limpid agate]

For OW2 launch heroes, this is what we know:

• Sojourn
• 4 Silhouettes were teased to reporters
  -- Feminine
  -- Feminine
  -- Looks like a warlock
  -- Feminine with some kinda 3 sided weapon

[peak escarp]

but secrets and information can be valuable to the right people

[stiff hamlet]

I''m surprised no one got a photo.

[peak escarp]

and Junkrat could sell it

[terse oar]

A treasure can be anything, we just have to wait

[limpid agate]

Then to expand on that:

• If we get heroes, they will likely appear in the campaign
• If we get heroes that don't appear in the campaign, people will go back to "Zen lore" memes
• Everyone is sick of Zen lore memes.

So if:

• Launch Hero is likely to appear in campaign
• Junkerqueen is unlikely to appear in campaign
  Then:
• Junkerqueen is unlikely to be a Launch Hero

[terse oar]

I doubt every new hero will be campaign-related, but most probably will

[limpid agate]

We're probably only getting 5 or 6

Tops

[terse oar]

I’m betting 6

I always have

[limpid agate]

We know one, and were told about 4

[stiff hamlet]

Do any of you here want the other Meka fighters as heroes?

Not all of them.

But just another one.

[limpid agate]

It would be cool, each have their own reason.

Casino - Most interesting for story
King - Most interesting weapon
Overlord - Most interesting kit overall
D.Mon - Popular because girl and that's pretty much it

[stiff hamlet]

Who's the one with the mini drones next to the mech?

[limpid agate]

Overlord

[peak escarp]

I'd like to learn more about them (Casino in particular), but I don't really care if they become playable

[hushed jetty]

Do you think we'll ever get a Talon-based Archives sort of event?

I doubt we'll ever get one, but I'd at least like to see something like that

[peak escarp]

it depends if we get a neutral faction for us to fight as Talon

[fringe blade]

Casino's username, as well as his mech's name could be both be references to Monaco. The country is known for its casinos, and its royalty is officially referred to as their Serene Highness. This also ties into his history as a professional racing driver, as Monaco is also known for the Monaco Grand Prix.

This is very interesting, actually

[peak escarp]

if they added Helix as a faction, they could have playable Talon missions

@fringe blade and I wonder if he might have Maximilien (or his casino) as a sponsor because of the Monaco connection

[fringe blade]

Huh

That could be potentially interesting

If Casino was some sort of Talon agent

[peak escarp]

this is why Casino is the most interesting MEKA pilot from a story standpoint

[fringe blade]

Maybe its a coincidence that they are releasing Monte Carlo (since that's where Max's casino resides), but I dunno

It could have some interesting outcomes if Casino was released

His interactions with D.Va would be cool too

[molten halo]

Hamburger

[worthy rose]

hamburger

[limpid agate]

!!shitposting

[twilit nacelle]

Shitposting will result in a loss of access.

[limpid agate]

@worthy rose @molten halo

[wise tulip]

I really want to know more about that omnic in the last storm rising cutscene

he looks and sounds so cool

(not maximilien)

the dude leads null sector

[gaunt dune]

true

[peak escarp]

I have a feeling he'll be an important figure in OW2

[wise tulip]

i love his voice so much

i really hope he gets to be playable

[grand wedge]

do we know who voiced that omnic?

[peak escarp]

we don't have a confirmed VA, but the credits for 2019 were posted and several names were unknowns

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/overwatch/t/2019-game-credits-posted-new-voice-actors-speculation-of-characters-updated/405018

Ramon Tikaram's voice sounds like the mystery omnic

https://youtu.be/6KdusAdIqBI

[grand wedge]

Thank you!

[peak escarp]

I like his voice, it's got weight to it

[wise tulip]

that's definitely him

[peak escarp]

same sort of menacing energy that Doomfist has

[fringe blade]

Damn, this guy's voice is crazy

I mean, nothing beats Morgan Freeman

But still

[terse oar]

The voice actors they select for the characters are always phenomenal

[fringe blade]

Yea

You can say what you want about Blizzard, but their casting is top-notch

[worthy rose]

Like Hammond

No one expected his VA to be an actual person exept for obviously the mech

[terse oar]

I think the only VA that’s hasn’t shown up to an OW panel of some sort is Moira

I could be wrong

[peak escarp]

I think so

she's a more "serious" actress though

[worthy rose]

Like widow?

Also do we know lf Moira was the cause of widows brainwash (like if she was involved)

[peak escarp]

probably not

[worthy rose]

Cause there’s a interaction in game that sorta implies that

[peak escarp]

Moira works in genetics, not psychology

Moira may be responsible for her genetic modifications, but not her mental changes

[worthy rose]

Oh

So like slowing her heartbeat?

[peak escarp]

yes

[swift mason]

I've seen a video where Widow's voice actress came late to a panel and she is surprisingly very upbeat

[peak escarp]

she's very nice

she's also one of two VAs who also voice their character in another language

Chloe Hollings also voices Widowmaker in French

Elise Zhang (Mei) voices both Mei and Symmetra in Mandarin

[terse oar]

Huh, didn’t now the last half...

But yeah I’ve heard Moira’s VA is a lot more renowned and busy. Apparently OW is the only video game she’s ever voiced

[peak escarp]

which is surprising - she has a fantastic voice

[terse oar]

She was in two Star Wars movies as Mon Mothma (Rogue One and Episode III) as well as being in the Matrix

The more you know

[swift mason]

MOIRA WAS MON?

[terse oar]

Her VA

Yes

[swift mason]

Well, the more you know!

[terse oar]

Some of her other things I feel like I’ve heard, but I’m not sure

“Forget Me Not,” “The Kid Who Would Be King,” and “The Legend of Tarzan” are some other movies she’s been in

https://youtu.be/xgP16IODXB8

^ this is an interview she’s had (not for OW)

[young knoll]

mon mothma?

nice

[terse oar]

Sigma’s VA (Boris Hiestand) was an animator for Guardians of the Galaxy and Harry Potter: Order of the Phoenix...

Dang, some of these actors are actually quite popular

[swift mason]

I know that Hammond’s hamster voice does a lot of popular voices, like peppermint butler from adventure time

Dee Bradley baker is a legend

[peak escarp]

yeah

he's the guy for animal noises

[terse oar]

He was Peppermint Butler?!

[cerulean ice]

pogu

[terse oar]

I checked it, he was actually Cinnamon Bun

Which imo is even more impressive

[tight swan]

Mccree's voice actor also did a lot of different games and animated shows

He is in a lot of animes too

[peak escarp]

he's very talented

[tight swan]

Yes he is

[proud dust]

he's a dnd dm

[peak escarp]

and a cosplayer

[clear nest]

matthew mercer 😳

[terse oar]

He does a lot of anime

[dull vessel]

Who has the hairiest chest of overwatch?

My guess is Zarya

[peak escarp]

!!shitposting @dull vessel

[twilit nacelle]

@dull vessel Shitposting will result in a loss of access.

[valid terrace]

Winston

[dull vessel]

How is that shitposting

Genuine question. I mean Winston is a monkey though. He is hair all over but not the chest though

[peak escarp]

why would Zarya have a hairy chest?

[dull vessel]

You think the human anatomy of a woman is to have such big muscles?

[peak escarp]

it's not impossible

there are plenty of muscular women

[valid terrace]

She almost certainly manscapes regardless, so you probably won't find much hair

[peak escarp]

manscapes

[valid terrace]

Lol you know what I mean

[peak escarp]

it's called grooming

[valid terrace]

Yeah yeah

[dull vessel]

But on a serious note, who? Winston is a gorilla

[peak escarp]

probably Reinhardt

[magic blade]

so if matter cant be created or destroyed right?
and the big bang happened over a billion years ago
so in conclusion officer, she wasnt underaged

[peak escarp]

what

[zenith rose]

...

[dull vessel]

so how is that not a shitpost lmao

[peak escarp]

!!shitposting @magic blade

[twilit nacelle]

@magic blade Shitposting will result in a loss of access.

[iron plume]

You think the human anatomy of a woman is to have such big muscles?
@dull vessel ...have you seen weightlifters?

[valid terrace]

Bodybuilders are better examples of sheer size

[dull vessel]

I did. But you think that natty?

[iron plume]

Not really

[valid terrace]

Are any of those athletes natty?

[iron plume]

Bodybuilders are more toned but they aren't that much bigger
Plus zarya is a weightlifter

[dull vessel]

my point exactly

true, but women aren't built to make muscles in the first place. You'll gain a bit of course, but generally not as big as a man or bigger

[iron plume]

Here is a real life Olympic weightlifter

Zarya isn't that far off

[peak escarp]

Zarya isn't as muscley as people think

[iron plume]

eh disagree on that

[peak escarp]

aside from her arms

[iron plume]

she's pretty damn muscly
it's just that in fanart and such people usually draw her very shredded

[peak escarp]

she's not like, body builder cut

[iron plume]

which isn't how that works

[peak escarp]

yeah

[iron plume]

but it's still muscle

[peak escarp]

people draw her too defined in fanart

even Reinhardt isn't as buff as people draw him

[worthy rose]

Can Zarya beat Doom in an arm wrestle?

[peak escarp]

probably

[gilded stag]

gauntlet or no gauntlet

[worthy rose]

Gauntlet

[peak escarp]

with the gauntlet, Doomfist would win

[worthy rose]

So it depends if Doom has the gauntlet or not

[terse oar]

Gauntlet Doom in an arm wrestle would probably rip your arm off

[limpid agate]

Zarya is the strongest woman alive

Doomfist with his gauntlet can create craters, casually throw cars, and punch gorillas over several blocks.

It doesn't matter how fast Usain Bolt is, he can't outrun a Supra.

[cerulean ice]

that is such an obvious question

just saying

[fringe blade]

Its a shame we never really get to see the extent of the Gauntlet's powers

[worthy rose]

Pretty sure we did

[polar skiff]

torb

[hushed jetty]

What about Torb?

[fringe blade]

We never really did

We have seen him use it very few times, and I'm not sure if any of those times were the Gauntlet at max power

[worthy rose]

How were they not max power?

He doesn't have a reason to hold back

[terse oar]

We saw Doomfist’s power in his origin trailer

He threw a car door that shredded through a building

[fringe blade]

There's literally no way he would've lost to Winston if he was using the Gauntlet at its fullest power

I can see him underrating Winston's power, and not using the Gauntlet to its truest potential

[terse oar]

Doomfist seems someone who’d want an equal fight, so maybe

[limpid agate]

Doomfist is not the type to go easy on someone.

[fringe blade]

Its not really about him going easy on Winston

[limpid agate]

Even if he underestimates them, he would destroy them

Winston is just overpowered

[fringe blade]

This is my problem with the Gauntlet

I don't really understand the extent of its power

[terse oar]

“Have you ever been hit by a giant, genetically modified gorilla?”

Idk, if OW2 is cutscene heavy we may see it used

[limpid agate]

Despite how much people throw the word around incorrectly

Winston is a mary sue.

[terse oar]

Whas that mean

[limpid agate]

(originally in fan fiction) a type of character who is depicted as unrealistically lacking in flaws or weaknesses.

Someone who is just

Good at everything inexplicably

And better than people who should be the best with less training

[terse oar]

Ooohhhhh

Yeah, that kinda is Winston

Or would that be plot armor

[limpid agate]

For example, Winston did literal rocket science on the moon by himself in an emergency, solved time travel when the world's best scientists including its inventors couldn't despite not having a formal education, and overpowered the Doomfist gauntlet in a fist fight where it was already defined in the same fight that Doomfist can make craters and send gorillas flying

Oh, and that Doomfist was already established as a highly skilled warrior who could predict the exact position a time travelling combatant would be in.

[terse oar]

So would a Mary Sue be similar to Plot Armor

[limpid agate]

Lost to Winston on one of his first missions

No

Plot armor is a character not dying because the plot demands it

For example, Ana surviving a headshot.

Its not the character being defined as perfect. Its just luck that they survived

(Yes I know her scope was shot, not her)

[terse oar]

The more you know

[limpid agate]

A common example of plot armor is in movies, where the main hero is running around in a gun fight and not getting hit by bullets

The bad guys miss because the plot requires them to miss

[terse oar]

Ok, I get it now

Thx

[worthy rose]

Winston is just super strong Doomfist was not holding back

Which makes Reaper knocking Winston down more impressive

[clear nest]

is fade and coalescence canon?

I feel like the answer is no, but considering moira could turn reaper into gas I feel like it might be

[worthy rose]

Pretty sure it is

Most characters in the lore have the same abilities as the game

[valid terrace]

Her only confirmed ability is the lifedrain afaik

[terse oar]

Idk about Coalescene, but Fade is most likely canon

[worthy rose]

In other words doomfist is actually weaker than Winston

And reaper is I guess stronger than him in a way

That was only cause he had his guns tho

[swift mason]

To be fair to Winston, he probably hasn’t been doing much other than building new inventions, (actually Athena mentions it had been 43 days since his last cardio workout) so his full power was not realised when battling reaper in recall

[worthy rose]

Yeah Hellfire shotguns are OP

[fringe blade]

The thing that I have never really understood is why the Crusaders have to have normal soldiers fighting by their side

They seem to be capable of handling the Bastions by themselves

Especially in scenarios like the attacks on Eichenwalde

[peak escarp]

maybe they didn't have the resources or personnel to field only Crusaders, so they figured it was better to have one crusader assigned to a squad of infantry, rather than have all the crusaders together in one unit

[fringe blade]

Fair enough

[peak escarp]

big suits of armor like that seem like they would be difficult to maintain, and require people of a certain build to pilot

[fringe blade]

I also don't know why they just didn't put up turrets or things along those lines

Considering how advanced the tech is, putting up turrets seems like a much more efficient way of going about fending off Bastions from a specific point

[peak escarp]

idk

[fringe blade]

Anyway, its probably just a plot device

Putting real people in the line of fire makes for a much more dramatic story

[peak escarp]

yeah

[snow zodiac]

g

[hot heart]

Hmm I wonder

Did Gerard clap it before he die

How long have they been married?

[hard sinew]

[swift mason]

I reckon they have been married for at least 2-3 years before his tragic death

At least

[hot heart]

Hmm

But why no babies

[peak escarp]

maybe Amelie didn't want children

she was a ballerina, that would ruin her figure

[hot heart]

[worthy rose]

Did Gerard clap it?What does that mean?

[hot heart]

Use ur dirty mind

I dont wanna say it

[worthy rose]

Oh I see...

[grand wedge]

Amélie is 33 - and 6 years ago she killed Ana - so she was captured even before so like, she was probably around 26 when she killed Gérard

[peak escarp]

she was probably at the top of her career

no time for kids

[hot heart]

Oh no

Math

[cerulean ice]

lmao widow daughter

[worthy rose]

If Overwatch characters had favorite bands what would it be?

Ofc Reaper listens to emo bands.He probrably listens to Linkin Park lol

I feel him life is pain

[gritty remnant]

do you guys think they play instruments

[worthy rose]

I don't think so

[terse oar]

I feel like Hanzo could play a koto

[idle copper]

is overwoatch going to be free?

[terse oar]

No

[idle copper]

ok mate yust asking

[worthy rose]

I feel like Reaper could play the drums

And Genji maybe could play the koto with Hanzo

[terse oar]

Genji was said to be more reckless and lazy than Hanzo, so I don’t think he’d devote his time to it

He could have learned afterward though

[peak escarp]

Reyes doesn't play any instruments

McCree asks him about it during Retribution when he suggests posing as a band

[worthy rose]

I agree with McCree Reaper would do great in a band

[peak escarp]

we know Pharah likes classic rock

[worthy rose]

hasselhoff baby!

[clear nest]

does Sym know that Vishkar is with Talon?

[worthy rose]

Which character in lore do you guys respect the most?

[valid terrace]

Rein

[mighty grotto]

The genii and hanzo

*genji

[worthy rose]

For me its Reaper,Winston,and Doomfist since imo they are the most powerful and they're very smart

[clear nest]

[tropic socket]

Sombra uses html

[peak escarp]

it's hard to say who I respect the most

[peak escarp]

I respect Jack Morrison, Gabriel Reyes and Ana Amari for the work they did leading Overwatch

but they haven't done much worth respecting recently

I guess I'd respect Mercy the most

[lament prawn]

probably mei, i would def not have the willpower or drive after rise and shine

[worthy rose]

Jack did save a girl from an explosion and Reaper fought Winston I think thats worth respect

[proud dust]

imo genji is the most respectable, he was a bad-ish guy, practically died, came back with a mostly robotic body, came to accept himself, forgave his brother, and now fights for good

not sure how much better it can get

[peak escarp]

Jack did save a girl from an explosion and Reaper fought Winston I think thats worth respect
Alejandra wouldn't have had a grenade thrown at her if not for Jack, and Reaper tried to kill Winston while taunting him - nothing worth respecting there

[proud dust]

reaper’s also a terrible dude, fighting a gorilla isn’t worthy of respect

it takes more than that

or should

[worthy rose]

I think its worthy of respect.Sure Reaper did terrible deeds but theres a difference between respect and liking someone

[peak escarp]

I don't respect attempted murder

[lament prawn]

Alejandra wouldn't have had a grenade thrown at her if not for Jack
i think thats kind of a reach for an angle to find him not worthy of respect

obviously wasnt intentional

its respectable to choose the kid over catching the bad guys, granted it would be the wrong choice to not choose the kid

[swift mason]

I respect tracer’s ability to keep going, especially after the trauma of the slipstream accident

[peak escarp]

I was just refuting what they said

[proud dust]

yeah but you were suggesting that that’s a reason not to respect him, or at least that’s how it came off, and jack clearly didn’t intend to have a little girl in the middle of his fight, even gave up the bad guy to save her

pretty sure she got herself into that situation anyway right?

[peak escarp]

if Jack hadn't been there, she would have chased after them and they would have scared her off

she wasn't in danger until Jack got involved

what he did to protect her is honorable and I can respect that

but I also recognize that she was only in danger because of his presence

[proud dust]

I guess that’s true but it doesn’t seem all that significant

[peak escarp]

it isn't

there's other things he's done as a vigilante that I don't particularly respect

[lament prawn]

i still dont get the point of refuting an opinion

[peak escarp]

[proud dust]

^ especially when the thing you’re using to refute isn’t important

[peak escarp]

for discussion

[lament prawn]

understandable

but even under your angle, you said it was respectable

at least the specific action of saving her, not his overall life choices

[peak escarp]

sure

my point wasn't that saving Alejandra wasn't worthy of respect

it was that saving Alejandra doesn't outweigh everything else he's done, including endangering Alejandra

respect is highly subjective

[lament prawn]

i see your point and i would agree if it was a battle happening in the open public streets, but there was no reason for him to check for children in sketchy alleys

if there was a battle happening in the middle of the street, it would be the wrong choice to not check for civillians and keep them safe

[peak escarp]

he saw them take her purse (otherwise how would he know to give it back to her?), so he knew she was there

or at least, in the area

[lament prawn]

oh yeah that is true

but that happened sort of in the open, and then she went into the alleys on her own

[young knoll]

or he could have, you know, assumed the gangsters didn't own it and gave it to her

[peak escarp]

unless Jack just stole that purse off them and decided to give it to her, not knowing was hers to begin with

[proud dust]

in the video he finds out she’s there when she screams as he beats some guys head in

he probably just inferred it was hers

which is logical

[peak escarp]

what, criminals can't like cute things? Roadhog would like some words

[proud dust]

roadhog is mentally unstable 😂

[lament prawn]

you're thinking of junkrat

[peak escarp]

oh, so only unstable people like cute things?

[lament prawn]

ig im unstable

[valid terrace]

children

Yes

[proud dust]

roadhog wears a pig mask and sometimes acts like a pig

[peak escarp]

he doesn't act like a pig

[proud dust]

he oinks

[peak escarp]

he grunts

[proud dust]

yeah like a pig, not just normal grunting

[peak escarp]

sure

[proud dust]

he’s been through a nuclear holocaust i doubt he’s very stable

[peak escarp]

there's nothing to indicate Roadhog has mental instability

[proud dust]

not including his entire persona, i agree

[peak escarp]

he seems very rational in Wasted Land

and in Going Legit

he was the voice of reason to Junkrat's chaos

[proud dust]

comparatively yes but he’s still a wanted criminal and murderer

[peak escarp]

so is Jack Morrison Soldier 76

[proud dust]

murdering bad people is different to murdering good people

[peak escarp]

murder is still murder

[young knoll]

no, murder is unjustified homicide

[proud dust]

right but killing bad people is good, killing good people is bad

[young knoll]

of course, who is bad?

who is deciding this?

[proud dust]

morality

[peak escarp]

that's not how the law sees it

[young knoll]

seems a bit arbitraru

arbitrary*

[peak escarp]

you murder a terrorist, you're still a murderer

[proud dust]

i don’t see any soldiers getting arrested for murdering terrorists

nobody bats an eye

[peak escarp]

that's war

that's different

they don't consider killing enemy combatants on the field of battle to be murder

[young knoll]

neither is killing a terrorist

murder is an unlawful killing

[peak escarp]

you can't just use "but he was a bad person" as you defense when you're put on trial for murder

that's not how it works

[proud dust]

Realistically the law is irrelevant as to what is right and wrong

Only relevant as to what is legal

[young knoll]

terrorist is not "bad person"

it is a legal designation

[peak escarp]

killing a terrorist, unless you are legally authorized to do so, is murder

and makes you a vigilante

which is also illegal in most places

[lament prawn]

killing a talon agent is morally not the same as killing a civillian

[peak escarp]

so Soldier 76 is a criminal

[lament prawn]

legality was not the point of this

[proud dust]

Like I said law is not relevant to what is right and wrong

[young knoll]

so why discuss legality then?

[peak escarp]

well I've been discussing legality this whole time

[proud dust]

I haven’t been idk about everyone else

[young knoll]

where are you getting this nebulous "morality" from then?

[peak escarp]

comparatively yes but he’s still a wanted criminal and murderer
@proud dust

[proud dust]

Are you talking to me or doctor?

[young knoll]

you

[proud dust]

and yes doctor he’s a murderer

[peak escarp]

criminal and murderer are legal terms

[proud dust]

bro murder is a dictionary term

you can use that for things that aren’t involved with legal issues

it doesn’t have to pertain to law

it’s just what it is

[peak escarp]

murder is the crime of killing someone

[proud dust]

criminal i agree on, you are a criminal if you break a law, but you are a murderer if you murder

[young knoll]

and murder is a legal term

[proud dust]

murder is murder lmao, killing another person

[young knoll]

no, the unlawful killing of another person

[proud dust]

walking my dog isn’t a legal term

[clear nest]

murder is still murder

[proud dust]

to answer your question grike morality is involved because we were comparing roadhog killing people and soldier killing people, doctor was saying they’re the same and i disagreed because morally they’re different

[young knoll]

what morals

where are they from

can I touch them

[proud dust]

Do you know what morals are?

[young knoll]

have you ever heard the term "subjectivity"

[swift mason]

No matter their morals, it’s still murder

[young knoll]

most people think that applies to them

[proud dust]

Yes but killing people is not inherently bad, just because of the fact that it’s killing

it can be good or bad depending on who is being killed

[young knoll]

ok, and how are you able to determine this

[swift mason]

But it’s still an act of killing

[proud dust]

What do you mean how am i able to determine that? It’s just life? what is there to determine

[swift mason]

Killing = death, death = bad

[lament prawn]

you could argue this type of morality in real life, but in fictional worlds, its often told to you who's good and who's bad. you're not supposed to look at talon and be like "hmm maybe they're good"

[young knoll]

not every one shares the same morals

where do you get your tenets to determine this

[proud dust]

How tf is that relevant, hitler was a bad guy no matter what his mother’s opinion of him was