Do you mean like AI companions?
#lore-discussion
cosmic crest
terse oar
Like they’re only available in a certain mission
lament prawn
like, playable characters that aren't necessarily part of the main roster
cosmic crest
I don't think they'd do that.
lament prawn
basically what an epic skin is to a legendary, only comparison i could think of
terse oar
Maybe they’d make them AI
lament prawn
yeah i dont think they'd do that at all, i just thought it might be cool
terse oar
What if they did that for a sponsorship
valid terrace
Bob
lament prawn
that way they can have kits entirely designed to be fun in PvE but would be way too stupid for PvP
as opposed to taking the pvp-designed kits and adapting them to PvE
cosmic crest
They are already kind of doing that with the talents.
terse oar
Oh, yeah
lament prawn
yeah of course, but i mean the core purpose of the kit, not just talents
either way, not gonna happen
terse oar
Maybe a rewire ability in that context would be cool
lament prawn
what i do want to see is more info on the talents/progression, because what we got to see wasn't nearly all of it
terse oar
Make the AI fight for you
We’ve only seen Mei and Tracer fully right?
And then some for Torb, Genji, Hanzo, and Rein
lament prawn
i think you can find footage of rein's, lucio's, tracer's, and mei's since they were the 4 playable ones on the rio mission
but thats not what i meant
the heroes arent all just gonna have 6 talents and thats it, no more progression
there's presumably gonna be more talents per hero, but more importantly different systems entirely that aren't in the "talent" category
they said what they showed was just a fraction of the progression systems, and that talents were only one of said systems
terse oar
Source of it being one of said systems?
terse oar
Ooooo
Now I’m interested
What else could they do though? Only other thing so far are the deployables if those count
lament prawn
what i imagined was like, layers to the "scale" of the abilities. for example, the talents we've seen could be the middle layer (stuff like mei's rolling cryoball, chain pulse bomb, etc) but what if there was a smaller layer with simpler talents, like the ability to blink vertically as tracer. and what if there's an "ultimate" progression layer, where it's only one or two abilities per hero but they wildly change how your ultimate works completely with new animations and features and such.
im making this stuff up but that would be the dream
terse oar
It honestly can’t lol
deft topaz
I'm pretty sure she was spetnaz or something
cerulean ice
she grew up near at the aftermath of omnic crisis
strongest woman
recognized as a star
bla bla
peak escarp
she was a champion weightlifter who abandoned the competition to defend her country against the omnics
cerulean ice
represented by the country
went on the front lines to destroy omnics
idk
thats how i summarize it
deft topaz
That's where the "military skin" is from
peak escarp
what's spetnaz?
cerulean ice
huh?
fringe blade
Russian Swat
cerulean ice
spetsnaz
fringe blade
Russian Special Forces
limpid agate
I'm pretty sure she was spetnaz or something
@deft topaz As was said above, she isn't Spetznaz. She is part of the Russian Defence Forces, which is the common Russian military that is actively fighting against the Siberian Omnium.
She is a sergeant, but she is still just infantry.
solar pagoda
hot heart
Imagine a Zarya skin with the helmet
terse oar
Idk if this would be lore, but is it possible to calculate how much recoil Pharah takes during Barrage?
Because I’d imagine it’d be a lot
cerulean ice
id assume her armor is resistant to recoil so that wouldnt happen
but we dont rlly know what its compose of
so idk
terse oar
Pharahs jets resist the recoil I think
But she fires 30 rockets/sec over 2.5sec, equaling 75 rockets
Each travels at 45m/s
If there were no friction, Pharah would be sent I think 3375m
cerulean ice
lmao
cerulean ice
also realistically, i think her jets wouldnt be able to resist the recoil
disregarding her armor
terse oar
It’d probably crush her or extremely hurt unless the armor was extremely strong
Forces going 2.1m/2.5sec would be extremely strong
iron plume
Rocket launchers don't produce that much recoil
because the rockets are self-propelled, unlike bullets
so not all of their speed comes from the launcher
and also even besides that your calculation is wrong, as you don't consider weight
or equate the weight of each rocket to Pharah's
terse oar
Probably
quaint schooner
what exactly is zarya's lore?
@worthy rose widowmaker and reaper and Sombra try to assainate a super important person but Sombra double crosses them and try’s to blackmail the important person. She leaves when the protesters are about to bust in. The important person hires Zayra to kill or get rid of Sombra.
Something like that
valid terrace
That’s not her lore that’s her recent whereabouts
worthy rose
ik i whatched the infiltration one, but that is not exactly her lore
quaint schooner
Eh whatever this is called, this is it.
worthy rose
hanzo rage
quaint schooner
Genji... (opposite of rage)
valid terrace
She’s a professional weightlifter who dropped everything to join the Russian military when the Omnics started attacking, she is now well known enough in the front that Volskaya, a mech and weapons supplier, enlisted her help to track down Sombra.
quaint schooner
I was half right! Good enough for me
valid terrace
She has very strong opinions and even stronger ties to her country
worthy rose
ok so genji is an unbreakable robotic ninja
quaint schooner
But somehow Mai has 50 more health?!!?!
valid terrace
Gameplay != Lore
quaint schooner
Genji:200
Mai:250(Even when she goes to battle with Pajamas!?!?)
valid terrace
Balancing doesn’t indicate character strength in lore
quaint schooner
Yeah but mai is stupid
valid terrace
What?
valid terrace
Not necessarily
worthy rose
well, it is probably not that because he survives
valid terrace
He just moves quickly for an instant, his body has enough enhancements that the jolt shouldn’t phase him
worthy rose
but move that distance in that speed is a lot
valid terrace
He only does it in bursts
worthy rose
it is faster than a car
quaint schooner
It’s like 5 to 10 yards in a half sec
worthy rose
yep
quaint schooner
Which is a lot but not gonna break him
valid terrace
Tracer moves in even faster bursts
worthy rose
he doesn't explode because he is a cyborg
quaint schooner
I was gonna say that but it’s because of time and stuff not actual speed
worthy rose
Tracer moves in even faster bursts
@valid terrace she teleports
valid terrace
Does that matter in this argument?
worthy rose
i mean, yes?
quaint schooner
He resistant but not unbreakable ok, let’s not argue bout this
valid terrace
She can reach locations more quickly
limpid agate
Technically, she time travels, not teleports.
worthy rose
kinda
quaint schooner
@limpid agate that’s what I said
limpid agate
Also, Gameplay != Lore
worthy rose
but the name of the ability is teleport
worthy rose
oh yeah
valid terrace
^
quaint schooner
Isn’t it shadow step?
limpid agate
Its just a gameplay way of showing his wraith form travel great distances
It is Shadow Step
worthy rose
Isn’t it shadow step?
@quaint schooner oh yeah
limpid agate
Symmetra's is Teleporter
worthy rose
i'm a bit confused
limpid agate
And that is a literaly teleport
Also, Gameplay != Lore
A hero's healthpool or speed is based on gameplay balance, not on lore or logic.
worthy rose
yep
limpid agate
There is no reason why Mei has more health than the fully armored Pharah other than gameplay balance.
valid terrace
Back to the argument, if you just wanted to say Genji is fast, you are correct, if you are saying that makes him unbeatable, please watch the Doomfist cinematic
quaint schooner
Genji:Dash
Tracer:blink
Reaper:shadow step
worthy rose
yep
so genji is the most incredible one
because of the speed
but tracer time-travels
so nvm
limpid agate
And Tracer also lost to Doomfist
worthy rose
yup
quaint schooner
Also mei doesn’t need balance. She does not need 250 health cus she has amazing attacks, ability’s, and an amazing ult
worthy rose
she is cute but evil
limpid agate
Mei is not evil.
valid terrace
Imo time travel is more incredible than a dash just looking at how hard the ability is to pull off
worthy rose
have you ever walked into a room with mei in it?
limpid agate
!!shitposting
twilit nacelleBOT
Shitposting will result in a loss of access.
worthy rose
then you get freezed
worthy rose
yes, freezed
limpid agate
This is not a topic up for debate.
peak escarp
we have another name to add to the writing team - Miranda Moyer is Associate Narrative Designer
timid eagle
opaque tundra
Sounds like a "vice lead writer" to me
limpid agate
Its not a writing job, but still part of the lore team.
She won't be making any short stories or comics, but she will be contributing to things such as, say...
How story is conveyed and translates through the missions and campaign itself
quaint schooner
she is cute but evil
@worthy rose ummmmm cute??
peak escarp
I should have said "lore team"
worthy rose
We have a lore team?
peak escarp
yes
valid terrace
Well, the OW team does
worthy rose
How do y’all think sojourn might meet up with Winston and the crew
Coincidence? Recall?
valid terrace
She’ll probably contact them about some intel or to group up
Or just drop in like everyone else
peak escarp
I think she might call them up for a mission
worthy rose
Anyways how did the others find Winston Mei and tracer
peak escarp
or drop in on them while they're on a mission
I assume Winston sent out another message saying where to meet him
valid terrace
And it’s always cooler to show up fashionably late
worthy rose
I’m more curious ab how far in the future Zero hour took place
valid terrace
Than to help your friends avoid death
worthy rose
In honor and glory Reinhardt “has been called” by winstons recall and he didn’t have a beard meaning he must’ve been a lot younger
worthy rose
This all adds up now, ty
Zero hour taking place in 1 years time must mean that the mission in rio must’ve been a few days later
true niche
iron plume
...how?
iron plume
Stop shitposting then.
peak escarp
this is a serious discussion channel
exotic patrol
Spy having sex with spys mom is canon
swift mason
wrong game
pliant sparrow
F
half storm
pseudo phoenix
THIS IS YOUR DAILY REMINDER: DON"T EAT PILLOWS
molten pelican
oh yeah ty for the reminder
cerulean ice
candid juniper
Aight
I just read the past few messages and went “wtf”
valid terrace
It happens a lot of people don’t respect the rules
peak escarp
and there's only one mod that cares about this channel, and he's not online
young knoll
Usually you have to go to mod mail if Taiga isn’t here
terse oar
Judging from talks on #overwatch, a lot of people don’t really care about the lore
peak escarp
their loss
terse oar
Sadly 
young knoll
It has a bunch of potential
peak escarp
people who don't care about the lore see OW2 as just expensive DLC
terse oar
I think most did initially
But once you really think about it, you realize the implications
young knoll
Well, strictly speaking, the lore people can basically just get the lore from it online too, so
peak escarp
Jeff was pretty clear in emphasizing that it's a new game with enough content to be considered a full game
young knoll
I mean, I’m getting it
terse oar
Also stating that “we want it to be a completely new experience”
young knoll
OW is among my most favorite games
peak escarp
same
young knoll
But the lore people don’t have to play it to get the lore either
terse oar
I’m leaning towards getting it, but I’m not certain
candid juniper
Same
peak escarp
true - anything in the game will be posted online within days of release
and probably analyzed to death by the lore community
terse oar
Sometimes before release lol
peak escarp
I don't mean us
terse oar
He means YouTubers and stuff
peak escarp
although we do have some hardcore people here (myself included)
candid juniper
Someone will if we don’t
cerulean ice
yes
peak escarp
pft, youtubers don't care about the lore
young knoll
I meant that to be sarcastic with how some of the conversations in here go
peak escarp
Hammeh is the only one
terse oar
I love Hammeh
peak escarp
ohnickel maybe
terse oar
Hammehs cosmetic showcases for new events are so in-depth (sorry for being a bit off topic)
young knoll
We go from like “ Orisa is cool” to “What are people really”
terse oar
“Orisa is an omnic, but what is an omnic?”
And then it spirals into a philosophical argument about biology and meaning
peak escarp
yeah, we do get off the rails a lot
I keep saying I want to start an Overwatch Lore youtube channel, but that requires time that I don't have
terse oar
I doubt any of us do
peak escarp
at the very least, OW youtubers will misinterpret the lore
peak escarp
they mostly repeat the same misconceptions that the casual community has
although I do remember one reaction channel that was convinced that McCree was an actor
young knoll
?
peak escarp
no idea how they thought that
peak escarp
no, they thought he was a Hollywood actor
young knoll
well, most casuals don't care about the lore
terse oar
Most would probably complain of buying a whole new game
terse oar
peak escarp
if you want something free go find a F2P game
peak escarp
people say "Overwatch has no lore"
so I show them all the shorts and comics and short stories
then they say "I mean in the game"
so I point to the maps and the heroes and the interactions
there's lore in the game, most people just don't think of it as lore
young knoll
you pretty much need to know outside info to understand the in game lore
and the interactions are a bit confusing because most characters don't actually know each other
when I asked you about it, for instance, I was left confused as to what aspects of it were canon until I asked you for clarification later
terse oar
Most interactions are pretty vague also
lime flax
An in-game lore gallery would be nice, kinda like codexes in other games
Though you'd have a problem with storage space
terse oar
I wish the small bios in the hero gallery were more descriptive
I know they’re not meant to explain everything, but just saying “Hammond is curious” is not that interesting
cosmic crest
I would also like full bios in the actual game.
People might be more knowledgeable of the lore if they could read about it during queue times.
young knoll
unlikely
terse oar
That’s why they’re arguing about it
Because “the PvP stuff will be free, so why not everything else”
valid terrace
They should be glad there’s any free content at all smh
valid terrace
At least a pricetag actually incentivizes more lore production
Making people hype for the next campaign means more buyers
Big brain
terse oar
What if this is Blizzards way of seeing who’s interested in the lore?
valid terrace
It probably is
terse oar
If the game doesn’t sell well, they’ll focus less on it
valid terrace
Yup
terse oar
Other way around, less lore than there already is
valid terrace
I think there’s enough people out there willing to try Overwatch again if it means no pvp
Or existing players who are already just here casually
Maybe they could have a split license or something, where we already own the pvp, but you’d need the pve license for the campaign
Which is kind of how it already is just less confusing
terse oar
That’s what they’re doing isn’t it?
valid terrace
Yes but calling it a sequel causes a lot of misunderstanding
terse oar
True
But at the same time, if it were a mere expansion of the same size, people would complain of a $60 lore ticket
valid terrace
Depends on how big it is
People play Halo just for pve
Same with Doom
Or Gears or whatever other games like those
terse oar
It’s most likely going to be bigger than we expect
They wanted a “full-fleshed story mode”
valid terrace
I’m guessing at least 15 missions since they aren’t as in depth as those other games I mentioned
terse oar
Story missions or in general
valid terrace
Halo usually has around 10 20-40 minute missions
I think Overwatch2 will have more shorter missions
Like 15 15-30 minute levels
terse oar
Is Halo PVE online?
terse oar
Chances are OW missions will be around 10 minutes judging from Archives
You have to remember that they need to be short enough to play in small amounts of time since they’re online
You can’t just pause
valid terrace
Right that’s why I think they will be on the shorter side
I didn’t see the Rio mission gameplay but that’s an easy way to learn the scale of these missions
I don’t want to spoil the levels for myself
hushed fiber
Will we be able to play alone with AI ?
terse oar
We don’t know, but most likely not
lament prawn
probably not, but i'd love for it to happen
if there's a movie (or story game) i really wanna experience, i dont like having my first run be with friends or anyone talking over it or being distracting
and randoms would be a... random factor that could affect the initial experience
young knoll
Well, I suppose this is a bit off topic, but I could join you I suppose
I mean, I am a random, but I would take it seriously
lament prawn
lol, making plans a year in advance, love it
i might take you up on that offer, what do you play on?
young knoll
Pc, but I am thinking about possibly new ps5 for the heck of it
lament prawn
ps5? after the recent nvidia 30 series reveal?
lament prawn
true
young knoll
I tend not to like pirating
Because it don’t trust the websites
Generally I don’t care about console but some of the exclusives are a tad tempting
Only Nintendo really had me considering before
lament prawn
i wonder if you'll be able to transfer your OW1 progress from pc to OW2 on ps5, if you switch
lament prawn
dunno, cause afaik you cant do that with just OW1 right now
young knoll
I wonder if that will contribute to interest in OW2?
lament prawn
maybe, but probably not by much
unless a bunch of people plan to conveniently swap platforms as it launches for no reason
or i guess, the people that have already switched and left their old accounts behind
young knoll
I mean, transferring from console to pc happens a bunch I think
lament prawn
yeah
young knoll
This seems to be veering off topic though
peak escarp
I think there’s enough people out there willing to try Overwatch again if it means no pvp
I am very much looking forward to this aspect of OW2
lament prawn
big same
peak escarp
I don't mind having people on my team, but I really hate fighting other people
Overwatch is my first PvP game and I now know I was right to avoid them
but anyway, back to lore
I too wish that the hero galley included bio pages
because many people don't even know the basics, like the heroes's ages or home country
terse oar
I don’t know the ages to a T, but I know the countries
peak escarp
I know the ages pretty well, but I'll still double check the ones I'm not 100% on
terse oar
I can guess the general range
peak escarp
Blizzard does a pretty good job portraying the heroes' ages
there aren't any that really seem off
and the fact that people have complained that Sombra and Mercy act/look younger than they are tells me that the internet doesn't know how 30-something women act/look
terse oar
Sombra and Mercy look young, but definitely not in the 20s
Not counting the obvious Dva, I’d say the youngest looking hero is either Tracer or Lucio
peak escarp
not Brigitte?
terse oar
imma be real, I completely forgot about her when considering
terse oar
Lag 
peak escarp
don't worry, I forget about her too sometimes
but there's one hero in the 20-somethings group that everyone forgets
Zenyatta
peak escarp
also Zarya and Symmetra are both 28
terse oar
Zaryas a surprise to me
peak escarp
which I sometimes forget - I tend to think of them as early 30s because how serious they are
terse oar
Early 20s
terse oar
Do we know when Liao was attacked?
Using that, we could maybe guess Echos age assuming she was awoken right after that
peak escarp
Liao was probably attacked before the Fall, so 10+ years ago
terse oar
Now that I’m thinking about it, what if it’s Null Sector that attacked Liao?
terse oar
Most likely will
feral rivet
Are overwatch comics up for sale on hard copy?
terse oar
I don’t think so 
limpid agate
Are overwatch comics up for sale on hard copy?
@feral rivet Only the first Anthology
This has the first 12 comics.
Train Hopper to Uprising
terse oar
I completely forgot about that McCree comic
feral rivet
i can't buy this. Jeff Kaplan didn't work on it
limpid agate
It does not have Masquerade, Wasted Land, Searching, Retribution, or either of the seasonal mini comics (Yeti Hunt and Return of Junkenstein)
What
!!shitposting
twilit nacelleBOT
Shitposting will result in a loss of access.
limpid agate
You ask if the comics are for sale, so I show you the comics for sale, then you make a shitpost about Jeff Kaplan.
feral rivet
not a shitpost?
limpid agate
Then what is the purpose of your comment
He worked on the anthology about as much as he worked on any individual comic.
feral rivet
i looked at the author thing in the description of the product, and made a humorous comment. Not a shitpost. I'm not making a fucking meme dude
limpid agate
That was a shitpost.
feral rivet
i hate it when servers do this man
terse oar
feral rivet
Fucking discord server mods. This is why they're always made fun of
anyway back to the topic of lore, Yes I might buy that comic as a gift on christmas
a lot of ppl i know like overwatch so 
quaint schooner
worthy rose
a lot of ppl i know like overwatch so
@feral rivet ik almost nobody that likes overwatch
i really thought josuke did
but he doesn't
worthy rose
actually
if you can lick someone though space and time
you can see josuke was lying
and jotaro is good at hiding it
fringe blade
We should probably get back on topic
worthy rose
probably
haughty bolt
peak escarp
yes
left kite
Is there any motive for the heroes to fight each other like Apex winning freedom and money
peak escarp
in Overwatch Talon and Null Sector want to start a war, Overwatch wants to start them
the matches in the game are non-canon though
subtle geyser
some of the overwatch comics were actually for sale as a seperate version
but i have no idea where they were from
peak escarp
I don't know if they were sold, but some were given out to influencers or as free comic book day comics
or as part of promotions:
so they are out there, but they're rare
terse oar
1 of 10, dang...
worthy rose
Wait did they make a comic ab storm rising too?
worthy rose
I see
Cause I remember they posted like a fanart or something and at first glance I thought it was gonna be a thing
worthy rose
I’m assuming the same thing happened with the retribution title before it’s release?
limpid agate
They released the Retribution comic before its release
terse oar
They were going to release a 100-page comic or short story a while back, but they scrapped it
The worst feeling in this Discord is when someone says something wrong about the lore and people believe them
In the Overwatch-Discussion
candid juniper
It hurts my brain
cerulean ice
most of them barely care about the lore
terse oar
Exactly, so they’ll believe anything someone says
peak escarp
you can try to correct them, but that's usually futile
cosmic crest
9 times out of 10 the mods seem to swoop in when that happens.
iron plume
aside from Jewvia most times the mods don't know the lore either
cosmic crest
If not the mods, one of the regulars will pop up.
peak escarp
I don't know about the other regulars, but I don't use the other channels
the only time I go there is if someone pings me
lament prawn
yeah i have all the channels muted but this one
hushed jetty
I like how the lore channel is like a completely different community from all the other channels
iron plume
this and fanart for me
hushed jetty
I just bounce between this one and overwatch discussion
peak escarp
sometimes I wonder if the other serious channels have to deal with shitposters
hushed jetty
Is there any way I can see a lot of the shorts/comics/short stories etc in one place? I plan to go on a lore binge this weekend and I think it would be helpful so I don't miss anything
pliant sparrow
sometimes I wonder if the other serious channels have to deal with shitposters
@peak escarp all the time
astral kite
Can we talk about Talon's beliefs and philosophy?
I believe it can be half true and half wrong
hot monolith
yes
astral kite
They're philosophy is "The world is better with conflict than peace"
astral kite
Yes, I think some of that is true but without peace, it's just wars and chaos
Which is very flawed
hot monolith
trees are not in lines but they do live in peace
peak escarp
their philosophy is "we evolve through conflict"
astral kite
mHM
peak escarp
not that the world is better with conflict
hot monolith
it's true tho
peak escarp
it's just means that having war and conflict and bad times is worth it for the advances it leads to
hot monolith
conflict makes you have a problem that you need to get over by being better
kinda like science
science is solving a problem by creating more
astral kite
Yeah, science.... Some things need a balance like I said. One does not simpley have, war
hot monolith
yes, but there is never peace
astral kite
The world can never exist without a problem
astral kite
Yeah, if the world JUST has peace and never fighting, all of humanity will never know what a problem would be or what could cause it.
Hell, we we're never prepared for hurricanes
And so, Talon is somewhat making peace
Yes, the believe "Humanity can evolve without restrictions and more conflict" but, this will help us actually learn from some things
hot monolith
most problems are caused by human curiosity. That doesn't necesarily mean it's bad
without curiosity, we would never have problems and we will never solve them, only to get more and try to solve those by getting more problems than answers
astral kite
Yeah, Moira and Oasis believe that humanity has put too many restriction on things, holding back the pace of discovery for human evolution.
She ask winston if he ever feels frustrated that his research needs a lot of restrictions. He does say yes, but some things are left to be safe
I mean, you would never experiment on yourself?
hot monolith
exactly. we need to be able to think creatively and try to make everyone better by making them more curious so they find problems and and solve those until we get to near perfection
we didn't reach clean power energy by being safe
astral kite
Oasis and Moira do have a good and brilliant mind set but some problems will lead to disaster
hot monolith
nuclear energy is amazing. It's so clean and good but we made it by making a literal bomb and perfected it with destruction and mistakes
Oasis is better than Moira
astral kite
Yes, but, what could happen is nuclear energy, can lead to nuclear bombs, and if they study that, and something happens, you know what will happen/
💥
astral kite
Oasis may be evolutionary in humanity's discovery, but some accidents will lead to disaster/
hot monolith
Psychology would evolve so much with lord of the flies examples. It also moved a lot with the stanford prison expirement
but isn't disaster what drives us?\
astral kite
Many people can be cautious to do things and some might take risk that others would dare not to.
Like sombra, she dares to use talon for her personal gains.
While those who would want to cross talon are scared they will die.
hot monolith
exactly. Sombra knows she can trick them. She's not being political yet she knows what to do
astral kite
She knows her restictions on what not to do to cross talon, but she takes those risk.
hot monolith
she's smart and brave. They suspect of her yet they seem to trust her at the same time, or at least reaoer does
astral kite
Just like what Moira and Oasis does
hot monolith
exactly, she pushes her limits to whatever she wants
astral kite
If look closely, Sym is almost like a puppet for vishkar
Talon has every major corporation in their favor.
Vishkar, probably Oasis, and many more
astral kite
K.
terse oar
We don’t know what role Vishkar plays in Talon, if one at all
If it were to be revealed as a major part of Talon in OW2, it would most likely be to introduce Symmetra to the group
astral kite
Well, in moira's backstory, we see one of Vishkar head hard light developer. He has the same uniform of Sym
@terse oar
terse oar
Yes
But we’ve only seen his appearance, so we don’t know if he’s using Vishkar to help Talon or not
grand wedge
it's strongly implied that he is
terse oar
Not really
We’ve only seen him on the council, we don’t know his actions and if they’re done to help Talon
grand wedge
Why would he be in Talon if not to gain something in exchange of something else?
young knoll
that does not mean he uses Vishkar
terse oar
^
young knoll
it can be inferred, but we haven't see that yet
grand wedge
He certainly use Symmetra for his own purpose
young knoll
for Vishkar
terse oar
^
astral kite
He could be corrupt. He may be using talon for Vishkar's own gains.
grand wedge
you can extend this to 'for money'
young knoll
I suppose
point being it would make sense if he was using Vishkar for Talon
but no evidence so far that he is, iirc
terse oar
The most likely reason is that he’s a money supplier, but we don’t know 100%
astral kite
He wouldn't do it for "money"
terse oar
But he’s most likely giving money to Talon
young knoll
we don't have evidence for that either
terse oar
It’s the simplest reason as of now
grand wedge
“There are other groups that make up Talon,” adds Chu.
young knoll
and Talon doesn't need Vishkar for money
Sombra alone could net them a lot
and they have a ton of high end mercenaries
astral kite
I think Sanjay would like to benefit Vishkar but in ways that are, questionable.
With Talon
young knoll
heck, they have the resources to brainwash people into killing family member
they are not wanting for money
terse oar
True
young knoll
Maximilien is probably a billionaire himself
and Doomfist isn't poor either
or wasn't
terse oar
We don’t really know much about Talons resources in general, just that they have advanced technology
young knoll
he likely had his funds taken when he was arrested
astral kite
Wait, in the Sym comics, was she like, going around and doing something in her field outfit?
That like, he boss or Vishkar told her to do?
terse oar
She was sent to get information on a competitor of Vishkar
young knoll
by Sanjay
astral kite
Mhm.
terse oar
But then they blew up the building without her knowledge
young knoll
Sanjay blew up the competitor's building
weary owl
All i remember from the comics is some little girl got burned accross her face
astral kite
Idk if he's trying to eliminate Sym
terse oar
Most likely not
young knoll
no, he wanted to destroy the competitor
weary owl
Sym has a death ray id find it highly unlikeley someone would want to challenge sym
astral kite
Oh, but why didn't he tell sym?
terse oar
She’s stated to be unique among the Vishkar architects, so losing her would be awful
Most likely either
- shady business
- she wouldn’t have approved to go on the mission
weary owl
By saying they wanted sym eliminated is the same as saying you just fired your best worker
astral kite
Back to Talon high council, I think that moira represents Oasis?
I may be super wrong
terse oar
She’s a lead geneticist
astral kite
But she, only, is the Minster of the Genetic.
terse oar
There are 4 branches of Oasis or something like that
young knoll
she might not represent Oasis
astral kite
We actually don't know who is in charge of Oasis
young knoll
we do, actually
astral kite
?
young knoll
there is a council
astral kite
Ik
young knoll
Doctor_Six posted that
weary owl
Well whos the council?
terse oar
Moira is part of the council, she’s the prime geneticist
weary owl
Oh
weary owl
Thats cool to know moira is something cool
astral kite
Yeah, but I feel like if Oasis were to be connected with Oasis in a way with Talon, wouldn't the other people in the council be with her?
terse oar
I’m confused with what you’re asking
astral kite
If moira were to be Oasis in a way of Talon
Connected
I'm kinda not focused at all
terse oar
lol
Are you asking that since Moira is a part of Talon, are the other Oasis council members working with Talon?
weary owl
Thats making no sence to me ngl
young knoll
all we know is that Moira is related to Talon
and to Oasis
we do not know how much influence she holds in either
weary owl
And blackwatch
young knoll
blackwatch no longer exists
terse oar
Well, was part of Blackwatch
weary owl
^
young knoll
so that is no longer relevant
weary owl
But it could lead to any other details
terse oar
Unlikely, but maybe
weary owl
If blackwatch was connected with oasis or anything like that
young knoll
speculation
weary owl
But i have no idea
terse oar
The only confirmed associations with Blackwatch is (obviously) Overwatch and Venice (Retribution)
They did go on other missions, but this one is the most prominent
You could also argue they’re associated with the Deadlock Gang since Reyes asked McCree to join in prison
peak escarp
Blackwatch has no association with Oasis
terse oar
^
weary owl
Isnt blackwatch also with talon?
peak escarp
Oasis has no association with Talon
weary owl
Considering moira was in blackwatch
terse oar
Blackwatch is nonexistent in current times
weary owl
I know!
peak escarp
former Blackwatch members have joined Talon, but not all of them
terse oar
Blackwatch was Overwatchs covert/spy division
peak escarp
McCree and Genji didn't
terse oar
^
weary owl
^^
peak escarp
Blackwatch was suspended after Retribution
the members found work elsewhere
McCree continued working for Reyes personally, and Genji moved into the Overwatch strike team
peak escarp
we don't know the timeline of when she joined Oasis, but that seems likely
astral kite
Isnt blackwatch also with talon?
@weary owl Reaper and moira went with Talon, Mcree was by himself and so was genji
terse oar
That was after OW fell
astral kite
It was likely she joined Oasis after Blackwatch and OW fell
peak escarp
there's also some rank and file Blackwatch members who joined Talon, since one in Trainhopper recognized McCree
astral kite
Hmm, well, this is just almost all theoretical
peak escarp
what do you mean theoretical
astral kite
I said all of this conversation and discussion
terse oar
^
young knoll
the stuff we don't know we have said
astral kite
Mhm
peak escarp
astral kite
I always thought he was just stopping a train robbery from random criminals.
young knoll
well, I suppose it is technically possible he was ex deadlock, but he mentioned they were using black watch tactics
astral kite
Are those Talon operatives?
young knoll
yes
astral kite
Ok..
terse oar
Reapers part of the head council of Talon
terse oar
Who?
young knoll
?
astral kite
Reaper
terse oar
He’s part of the head council
peak escarp
he's a council member
young knoll
he also does ops
astral kite
Ok. That's it.
terse oar
He go pew pew and kill people when Talon goes somewhere
astral kite
I suppose Maximillion serves the purpose of funding Talon?
terse oar
He’s the accountant, yes
astral kite
It kinda makes sense.
peak escarp
he's also on a personal mission to kill former Overwatch agents
terse oar
^ reaper
astral kite
Yeah, like in recall when he tried to get the list of ex OW members.
limpid agate
Doomfist, Reaper, and Moira are the playable members of the Talon Council of leaders
astral kite
Completly theoretical, why would Maximillion fund Talon?
terse oar
He handles the money
terse oar
He runs a casino, them people be sleezy
astral kite
K.
limpid agate
Antonio, Vialli, and Max were all major players before Doomfist took over and warped the organization for his own goals, and all were concerned with profits.
peak escarp
because Talon has the muscle to protect his businesses and the contacts to let less than legal things slide
also money
astral kite
K k.
I wish I had image perms but I have a picture of 5 members in the high council.
young knoll
for what reason
limpid agate
Profit
limpid agate
Before Doomfist joined Talon, Reaper/Moira weren't there. Sanjay may or may not have been there. Max was
There were two others there too, Antonio and Vialli.
They both wanted profits like Max
astral kite
But now, it's "Conflict will allow humanity to evolve better"
limpid agate
They are both dead now
terse oar
Is Vialli confirmed dead?
terse oar
That was Antonio in Retribution though
limpid agate
He is a normal human that was thrown off a cliff
astral kite
Yeah, and Reaper killed Antonio
terse oar
Vialli was also the one who ordered Katya Volskayas assasination
astral kite
Hmmm? At first, I thought they were anarchist.
terse oar
What
astral kite
Because- Well yeah I thought they were anarchist because they were going to assassinate Volskaya. But then I thought she's not the leader of russia
terse oar
astral kite
"a person who believes in or tries to bring about anarchy."
young knoll
I mean, I guess you could justify it by immediately dissolving after creating anarchy
astral kite
Do you guys know what Anarchy is?
young knoll
but the irony of doing so with a governing body is a bit
astral kite
Because yeah, at first, in the Sombra short, I thought Talon was a anarchist.
I wonder if anyone else in on the council besides Doomfist, Reaper, Maximillion, Sanjay, and Moira?
terse oar
Most likely
astral kite
Because, it's just that side, of moira, reaper, doomfist, maximillion, and Sanjay.
hard sinew
He is a normal human that was thrown off a cliff
@limpid agate
Where'd you find this?
hard sinew
Ah ty
astral kite
Hmm, but who are those people at the opposite end at the table of Maximillion.
young knoll
Sanjay and Moira
astral kite
Oh, moira is very faded out
young knoll
ok
hushed jetty
do we know when talon got ahold of sigma? like, did that mission to get him take place?
limpid agate
It happened already.
hushed jetty
yes But When
around recall? a few years before?
worthy rose
so sigma is basically a mad god
and he works for talon
and talon agents are the bad guys
young knoll
we don't know how powerful Sigma is for sure
he does work for Talon, possibly without knowing their intent
and yes, Talon agents are the antagonists
limpid agate
yes But When
around recall? a few years before?
@hushed jetty After the fall but before the present. long enough for him to learn how to harness the harness.
he does work for Talon, possibly without knowing their intent
Not possibly.
From his bio
young knoll
we don't know to the extent
If it is significant enough, I have made that argument as well
however, there is little to go off of in that regard
worthy rose
i mean, god or not he is powerfull enough to take down overwatch
and he didn't do that
young knoll
that is not supported
pliant sparrow
We have no idea how much control sigma actually has over his powers
young knoll
Doctor_Six recently posted something that suggested he has improved with it to an extent
I do not recall where it was. However, the general note is that even if he has great control over it, we don't know how significant the power is, regardless of his ability to control it
peak escarp
when did I say that?
peak escarp
Reaper is not a god
peak escarp
Reaper is a drama queen with superpowers
worthy rose
drama queen?
young knoll
you posted something recently about Sigma developing his powers, not that Reaper was a god
actually, I think it was the same thing Taiga posted
worthy rose
LOL
young knoll
I do not remember the exact quote
peak escarp
I don't remember what I said about it either
worthy rose
probably
peak escarp
probably from an article
worthy rose
but whatever
peak escarp
drama queen?
@worthy rose yes
worthy rose
probably killer drama queen
young knoll
I need to keep the stuff I learn here in a document so I can quote it
I just forget to do it
peak escarp
Reaper is so dramatic he has to pause for a monologue every time he fights someone
and he loses fights because of it
he monologued against Jack in Old Soldiers, and against Winston in Recall
worthy rose
He destroyed a mech which is suppose to be Russias most powerful weapon
peak escarp
if he would just shut up and shoot them, he'd be more successful
pliant sparrow
Eh
peak escarp
he destroyed a mech
young knoll
because you can't monologue to a mech
pliant sparrow
The giant mechs are probably way more powerful
young knoll
well, you can I guess
peak escarp
not Russia's most powerful
young knoll
no, the better ones are huge
worthy rose
But anyways without plot armor most Overwatch characters get wrecked by Reaper
peak escarp
I'd be impressed if he could take down one of the big ones by himself
pliant sparrow
Russias most powerful weapon is probs still nuclear weapons
But of course they can't used them against omnics
peak escarp
Reaper also has plot armor
pliant sparrow
Because they don't care about radioactivity
pliant sparrow
Most of the damage from nukes nowadays comes long term
young knoll
it being equivalent to mega or gigatons of tnt is the big thing
pliant sparrow
Yes
young knoll
they can destroy whole cities at once
pliant sparrow
But not what makes it so dangerous in the long run
young knoll
the radiation is why MAD exists
worthy rose
@peak escarp Reaper has no plot armor at all
pliant sparrow
Radioactivity kills far more than the explosion itself
young knoll
but the reason nukes are used is the explosive potential
if you want radioactivity
you can use dirty bombs
I mean, they generate less black carbon
but it is still pretty effective
pliant sparrow
Nuclear weapons are on a far larger scale than dirty bombs
young knoll
also, radiation does affect electronics
pliant sparrow
Huh, I didn't know that
young knoll
yes, in fact, many nukes also cause emp like effects
though not as significantly as actual emps
plus, obviously Omnics are shielded from emps
otherwise that would have easily beaten them
and likely radiation as well
the battle ones, at least
not sure what the civilian omnics get
hushed jetty
i missed the convo about reaper being a drama queen but he really is
when he ults in game, both sombra and moira have a chance to comment on how dramatic he is
terse oar
I mean, Reaper was jealous of Soldier having the spotlight during OW, so my guess is he’s wanting that dramatic attention
(It’s just gameplay, but it’s fun to connect small things to lore 🙂, even though they don’t mean anything)
valid terrace
He actually didn’t mind being second in command and working from the shadows
terse oar
Just checked, my bad 
valid terrace
All good, Reaper’s transition is still one of the big blanks in what we know
worthy rose
Reaper is so dramatic he has to pause for a monologue every time he fights someone
@peak escarp ok good point
but he at least kills
terse oar
He has the villain plot armor
Where you’re only defeated by the protagonists
But you don’t die
worthy rose
yes
worthy rose
that happens a lot in overwatch
i mean he is a reaper
@trail spade yeah kinda, but it's just his character name
he is not really a reaper
trail spade
why did it do this lol
trail spade
Oh wow
worthy rose
and i guess you should delete the link if you don't want to trigger the mod rage
terse oar
limpid agate
@trail spade Don't post random gifs.
limpid agate
That doesn't make it better. I'd argue that makes it worse.
peak escarp
even before he was Reaper, Reyes liked to make a scene
he even made his own Halloween costume
limpid agate
Which is part of why he's always jobbing
A significant number of his fights were lost because he tried to be theatrical with his execution
peak escarp
he's also known for being a careful planner, which is why suddenly killing Antonio and literally blowing the plan out the window was so out of character for him
terse oar
Even in that, he made it a bit theatrical
peak escarp
and why McCree was so upset about it
worthy rose
i mean, mccree and reaper are enemies
peak escarp
but they were close friends at the time of Retribution
Reyes was his mentor
McCree was the Anakin to Reyes's Obiwan (except plot twist, Obiwan is the evil one)
terse oar
I wonder if Ashe would have beef with Reyes in a canonical setting
Since Reyes hired McCree to join Blackwatch
peak escarp
considering he led a sting operation against Deadlock that resulted in a bunch of them getting arrested, yeah I think she'd hold a grudge
terse oar
That to
fringe blade
I wonder if Ashe/Deadlock Gang will play any role in the Route 66 mission
lime flax
You guys see this? https://twitter.com/JasonBabbles/status/1304213069157953536
Looks like Sojourns gonna be in a cinematic
fringe blade
Its possible
I kinda want a comic though
And what does 'Happiness' even mean
Is that the name of a VA?
I can't think of any large events/conventions happening in the near future
So I would think that this is something for OW2
limpid agate
I wonder if Ashe/Deadlock Gang will play any role in the Route 66 mission
@fringe blade That was a Hero Mission
Not a story mission
Hero Missions are all heroes missions that exist outside of the story with changing objectives
wise tulip
What character are y'all anticipating for OW2
I'm excited to see Mauga
pretty cool character
peak escarp
I want to learn more about Sojourn
what's her story, what did Canada do during the crisis, where has she been since Overwatch fell?
wise tulip
What's that from?
peak escarp
cosmic crest
I think they specifically focussed on it at the start.
peak escarp
she's been on the team for at least 20 years, so that seems about right
we could use more older women
young knoll
looked young to me in the trailer for her, so can't be jack's age at least
peak escarp
I'd guess she's in her early 40s
wise tulip
I wonder if Maximilian is gonna be playable
pliant sparrow
I'd guess she's around 50
young knoll
he didn't seem the combat type
wise tulip
Yeah