because shields are 100% made of hardlight
#lore-discussion
fringe thistle
cerulean ice
its just heavily used by vishkar
spring solar
rather than 'oh cool thats a cool perspective, heres my perspective'
peak escarp
I don't even remember what theory you're talking about
terse oar
Vishkar is probably the only ones who know how to make it
fringe thistle
likely
spring solar
my theory was gonna be on vishkar being the next baddy and u made it to be nah wont happen helix gonna be the next baddy
peak escarp
I said it was unlikely, and I gave my reasons
young knoll
I don't think we know
spring solar
dude since ur already responding to me can u open up dms so we can just discuss there?
im not gonna slur u out
peak escarp
no, I don't let random people DM me
cerulean ice
youre just forcing your convo with him here so can you just stop
fringe thistle
what does this have to do with lore
cerulean ice
idk hes mad
fringe thistle
spring solar
lol ok - but either way u get my point right? like if shit can be disproven by canon, for sure - but why go so hard on opinions and theories - at that point ur just looking to argue
peak escarp
I do get your point
but the whole point of discussion is to keep the conversation going
if I just agreed to disagree the conversation would stop and that would be boring
desert yarrow
well the conversation would also be boring if everyone left
spring solar
right, but u can see how going hard contrarian and making your opinion seem like it has more worth in an opinion based dialogue can lead to arguments right
desert yarrow
changing between subjects isnt a bad idea especially if it goes south and becomes a problem
peak escarp
Jewvia does the same thing
spring solar
cuz if its opinion based u can be more chill
peak escarp
most of the lore regulars do the same thing
spring solar
right and i dmed him saying like 'my dude my bad to argue, but u understand that it was an opinion piece that i acknowledge is in the realm of being wrong' in short
spring solar
no dude ppl have proven me wrong here and ill be like aight cool i was wrong, but my vishkar theory wasnt 'wrong' and michael chu thing was always stated to be personal opinion
young knoll
opinion can be wrong
peak escarp
I never said your Vishkar theory was wrong
terse oar
Vishkar is actually somewhat likely to be an antagonist since Sanjay is part of Talon
peak escarp
I just said it was unlikely considering what we know about vishkar
spring solar
aight and ur helix theory isnt wrong too, but u made it into an argument about why x is a better theory when end of the day both were just theories we both have in mind about how the story will go
terse oar
Sanjay is a prominent figure in Vishkar meaning he could be manipulating them
peak escarp
we don't know what Vishkar knows about Sanjay's activities - they could be completely in the dark about his Talon connection
spring solar
both theories were both pretty valid in the discussion - both stemmed from canon lore facts and neither were hard to understand why we thought itd go the way we thought
young knoll
fire?
young knoll
you mean the explosion?
cerulean ice
well, yes
peak escarp
yes, she witnessed it
spring solar
ye she saw the whole shit happen and shielded a child
young knoll
no
cerulean ice
mhm
peak escarp
no, she was just doing espionage
she was supposed to find dirt on Calado
she didn't find any, so Sanjay blew the building (although if he already had it rigged up, he might have been planning to blow it regardless of what she found)
young knoll
either way, good to have options
spring solar
wym
young knoll
what are you referring to
spring solar
oh yeah totally agree, thats what makes shit fun about theory crafting whats gonna happen in movies and games, ppl come up what they think will happen knowing the chance of it being wrong, ppl can read and choose what they think is more likely, but its kinda lame to argue over theories and try to invalid others when like - they just theories that everybody knows arent 100% accurate at all
cerulean ice
..
spring solar
?
peak escarp
it wasn't my intention to argue over your theory, it's just how people around here tend to discuss things
spring solar
aight and i get u on that - its just u come off as i gotta be right on things on things u dont have to be right about
canon lore and shit
i get
go ahead
terse oar
It’s been 2 comp games why are you still arguing
peak escarp
lol
spring solar
not arguing
peak escarp
anyway, back to Sanjay blowing up the Calado building
terse oar
I think Vishkar is indirectly an antagonist
spring solar
its a discussion to try and improve future discussions
terse oar
Like they don’t know about his activity, but he could be making them do things that benefit Talon
spring solar
ye i agree w u - thats my personal theory on it too, p much hydra in shield
w their global influence like w rio and dorado, access to shit ton of tech, and overall low public approval in some places
terse oar
Now that I think about, he’s probably Talons source of hard light
spring solar
could be a money thing too
max is their accountant, someones gotta fund all their evil shit
young knoll
they are already a massive and well funded organization
they probably don't need Vishkar for that
Sombra alone could probably fund them completely
terse oar
Source of hard light
young knoll
that would be very speculative
terse oar
Assuming Vishkar is the only ones who know how to make it
spring solar
if winston bubble is hard light, we know he can do it as well
peak escarp
which is unlikely, considering we've seen other sources of hard light with no mention of Vishkar
like Orisa's halt, Lucio's skates, the hard-light holograms for the Junies in HoN
peak escarp
it's powered by gravitons, but the visual that actually grabs people is hard light
young knoll
that seems unnecessary
spring solar
we know lucio stole the sound tech from vishkar, not out of the realm of possibility that the skates are vishkar tech as well
young knoll
why not just use the gravitons
oh well, I suppose that is just nitpicking once again
spring solar
whats the source on halt being hard light tech
peak escarp
hang on, I might be confusing things
spring solar
young knoll
that would be unusual
spring solar
no mention of any hard light here, unless theres a diff piece of media out there
obviously writers wanna have us draw the connection to zaryas tech if were paying attention - seems like missed opp to not do some vishkar/hard light mumbo jumbo as well
cerulean ice
halt is a graviton
peak escarp
ah, spotted my confusion
cerulean ice
orisa has an interaction with zarya to which she wants to master the halt thing
or something
peak escarp
during Hero of Numbani Orisa has a hard-light caster instead of her fusion driver, and only gets the graviton-powered model late in the story
The donations kept trickling in, and after a couple weeks, Efi had enough money to purchase a Branford arm, refurbished from an actual Branford dealer. It was made for the “Idina” model of OR14 security robots, so it wasn’t a complete match, and would require a fair amount of work to iron out the incompatibilities. The arm did come outfitted with a Luxor hard-light caster, capable of generating lassos and energy traps. It wasn’t close to being as intimidating as a fusion driver, but at least her robot would have some sort of offensive attack.
young knoll
hard light caster?
peak escarp
shoots hard light pellets
and can make a hard light lasso
which she uses to grab people
I was confusing that for Halt
young knoll
but the fusion driver is different?
peak escarp
the fusion driver is her gun
young knoll
and it shoots . . . not hard light pellets?
peak escarp
also notably from this quote, the hard light caster is Luxor brand, not Vishkar
so we have one example of another brand of hard light
cerulean ice
i thought her gun was solar energy or something
young knoll
that is sort of what fusion is
peak escarp
After two days of laying the ground rules, Efi was more than excited to take Orisa’s weapons for a test run. She used the term “weapons” loosely. She’d found a way to bypass the field stabilizer on the hard-light caster, so instead of only throwing energy lassos and traps, it could also shoot low-impact projectiles. The lavender-colored light orbs hit with all the punch of a wet, balled-up sock, which meant she wouldn’t have to worry about her robot causing any actual damage around Numbani. That was a good thing, but it also meant her robot was far from being able to stand up to a serious threat.
cerulean ice
ah
terse oar
Imagine if Halt did as much damage as a “wet, balled up sock”
peak escarp
also the end of the story implies that Orisa's fusion driver was a gift from ||Sojourn||
young knoll
it pretty much does, as it does none
but it is also one of the game's most useful abilities
only really rivalled by hack, immortality, and anitinade
of course, that is gameplay
peak escarp
||“All systems functional. Fusion driver upgrade installed and tested. Current combat simulations indicate high probability of victory.”
“Fusion driver?” Efi said, noticing that Orisa’s hard-light caster had been replaced with a bulky weapon that definitely looked like it could toss out more than wet, balled-up socks. “Where’d you—”
“We must hurry. She is awaiting our arrival.” “She? Who’s she?” Orisa looked around at the students. Every single eye was focused on her. “I can’t say right now. But with luck, our trip will be a short one. A quick sojourn abroad, and then right back to Numbani so your studies aren’t interrupted. I will explain further once we are airborne.”||
young knoll
interesting
peak escarp
note the choice of words
peak escarp
she does have a sense of humor
cerulean ice
somewhat
young knoll
it seems unlikely to be a coincidence
on the other hand
I don't see why ||Sojourn|| would be interested
peak escarp
dunno - I expect we'll find out why in OW2
young knoll
true enough
cerulean ice
we dont know much about her so yes
limpid agate
Melee Final Blow Fist bump!
young knoll
?
young knoll
ok
limpid agate
It is an example of her humour
young knoll
that seems more an indication of her being friendly to me
peak escarp
I'm picturing Orisa meeting her and looking up the meaning of her name, then using it for its meaning
cerulean ice
i thought that was a baymax reference
terse oar
@cerulean ice probably is
marble moat
anyone got a
overwatch account i can use cuzz i got suspended
dm if so
swift mason
This channel is for lore only, go ask on #general-discussion
solar pagoda
swift mason
It won't work in a canon sense anyway
Rainbow is present day while OW is in the future
plus the artstyles don't match up either
cosmic crest
There's basically nothing those two games have in common other than that they are both FPS games with diverse character rosters.
cerulean ice
idk that seems terrible imo
ocean elm
I mean they've wanted link from Zelda in overwatch
But I guess that make more sense since there are alternate versions of link
feral stump
Rainbow is present day while OW is in the future
@swift mason well i mean seeing as in club house it has a flag stated as 2014 and just a picture of a ball or somthing idk they still might be in 2014
But mr fish did age from his last game sooo??
cosmic crest
It would be cool if every push map had a different robot like how the payload is different on every escort map.
valid terrace
I thought that as well when I first saw the mode
It would be disappointing to see the same objective for every map
cosmic crest
Agreed.
lament prawn
they'd need to be similar enough to use the same rig, but yeah some variety with the robots could be cool
if the robot we saw was specific to toronto, there doesnt seem to be anything unique about it though
i doubt it'll happen, considering the robot has a name and all and cant really change unless he has "outfits"
quaint schooner
Question. Are soldier and Ana married?
quaint schooner
Oh wow soldier was super cool until that
terse oar
They’re just really close since they were commander and 2nd in command
The only appearances of Sam is in an archives spray and a Christmas comic
peak escarp
he's also mentioned in an interaction between Ana and Pharah
terse oar
Isn’t he implied to be Canadian?
cosmic crest
I really like the dynamic they have, they seem super close but not romantically involved in any way.
Soldier and Ana I mean.
terse oar
Yee
peak escarp
not just implied
he is confirmed to be a Canadian from the pacific northwest
(so he's probably from around where I live)
peak escarp
his name is Dae-hyun and she didn't friendzone him
terse oar
She kinda did though
peak escarp
the friendzone was made up by lonely incels who can't imagine just being friends with a woman they are attracted to
terse oar
It’s a joke chill
left kite
peak escarp
something I found on Tumblr - someone made a sketch of what Genji probably looks like under his armor
terse oar
terse oar
He didn’t lose all of his skin though
peak escarp
terse oar
There’s still some under there
How bad was Genji actually injured
Was it just some stab wounds or did he get dismembered
peak escarp
we don't know the extent of his injuries from the fight
limpid agate
He is missing limbs
terse oar
Damn
peak escarp
he appears to be missing his legs and one arm, but we don't know if that was from the fight or if they were removed as part of the cyborgization process
a bit hard to have cyber agility with flesh legs
terse oar
True
peak escarp
all we know is that the fight left him unable to walk
terse oar
I don’t really blame Hanzo for being in denial if he cleaved Genji in 2
left kite
He got scattered arrowed
terse oar
Lol
peak escarp
they fought with swords, actually
terse oar
Hanzos sword is on the 2nd point of Hanamura
limpid agate
!!shitposting
twilit nacelleBOT
Shitposting will result in a loss of access.
terse oar
left kite
Reminds me of the spirit from DBD were she got hacked up by a family sword but I want to see like the henchmen in game
Wait I'm shitposting? Sorry
limpid agate
The Shimada henchmen are in HotS, but that's not exactly a good source for canon.
I do not think we will see the clan in OW2 as an enemy faction.
fringe blade
As far as I can tell, the Shimada clan seems to be partially dismantled/disbanded
young knoll
that does seem to be the implication
fringe blade
It says in Genji's bio that he, with the help of Overwatch, completed his mission of dismantling the clan
Or it says it indirectly, anyway
peak escarp
the headline at the top
"Blackwatch under scrutiny after complaint from Japanese Government"
probably related to them taking down the Shimada clan
fringe blade
Hm, its certainly possible
And operating with Blackwatch would've probably made it easier to achieve Genji's goals
peak escarp
which would place it before Uprising in the timeline
still hoping we get a Blackwatch event/DLC for OW2 where we get to fight the Shimada clan
fringe blade
There is a lot of things that I wish to have in OW2
Most of them probs. wont pan out, but one can hope
Its interesting that Dragons happened way after the Clan was 'dismantled'
Considering there were guards guarding Hanamura
So the Clan isn't completely gone
peak escarp
there's probably a lesser branch that took over the castle
lament prawn
we might not get the specific things we wanted, but i feel like we'll be getting a lot of stuff we never knew we needed
peak escarp
or some caretakers have been put in place
fringe blade
I wonder what Genji's goals are with Overwatch
I don't really know what his goals are in general, tbh
He seems to be doing it just for the sake of it?
peak escarp
he's already achieved his goal of finding peace with himself
maybe the plotline with him and Zen will give him a new goal
fringe blade
That's what I am hoping for too, honestly
I hope they don't ruin his storyline, keeping him around for the 'cool ninja guy' effect
his character has a lot of potential
dim horizon
The Shimada Clan being dismantled in the past is no impediment to them coming back if that's what the writers want to happen.
dim horizon
Exactly, but even if they were totally disbanded they can still reform.
I mean, that's what Overwatch did.
fringe blade
I'm not sure if that's the storyline that they'll go for
And, considering that one of Genji's primary goals in the past was to permanently dismantle the Clan, I am pretty sure he would do it again
dim horizon
Undoubtedly.
fringe blade
I suppose it could be a potentially interesting storyline of the Clan coming back and Genji reuniting with Hanzo to dismantle it
Though I'm not sure if Hanzo working with Genji is the best path for his character
I'm curious to see where they decide to take Hanzo's character
His redemption arc should be quite intense
limpid agate
I have no idea what to expect with Hanzo going forwards.
fringe blade
I can tell you that, as someone who occasionally indulges in some creative writing, writing the story for Hanzo will not be an easy feat
peak escarp
I had a long shot idea that maybe his wandering would make him cross paths with Soldier and Ana and he'd join Team Old Soldiers, but probably not
terse oar
Doubt it
limpid agate
I don't expect that for the same reason I don't think Baptiste would join them
Jack wouldn't trust them
terse oar
Genji invited him to join OW, but that’s all we know
limpid agate
The only playable hero I feel has a reasonable chance of joining the Old Soldiers that isn't part of Overwatch is McCree.
terse oar
^
limpid agate
Torb is retired, and everyone else who is both willing to join the crusade and trusted by Jack/Ana is in Overwatch.
limpid agate
Jeff said it will play an important role in the story, and we know Bastion will be in the Gothenburg mission.
So it might join Overwatch in Torb's place.
terse oar
Maybe
Torbjorn doesn’t seem to enthusiastic to join the recall (judging from “what are you doing here”)
left kite
What do you think orisa will do
terse oar
Orisa will definitely be important judging from Hero of Numbani
I’d most likely assume she’ll be the one to stop Doomfist
limpid agate
It is suggested that ||she will be there for a mission, and then head right back to Numbani. So she probably won't join the team||
Actually... There's a thought...
||If she is only joining for one mission, perhaps there will be a new map located near Numbani for the mission to be set in, like Oyo, Nigeria||
ocean elm
It'd be cooler if orisa got that rematch
terse oar
Interesting thought...
limpid agate
It'd be cooler if orisa got that rematch
She got it in the novel.
fringe blade
That's actually a pretty solid idea
limpid agate
I don't think its a spoiler that Orisa/Doomfist fight in the Orisa novel where Doomfist is a major character.
fringe blade
Is there really any need to use the spoiler tag in this channel?
It feels kinda weird
limpid agate
I think its a good habit.
fringe blade
Eh, fair enough
peak escarp
and in that rematch, Orisa was able to hold her ground against him
terse oar
Are the Gwishin part of Null Sector?
peak escarp
with more training, she could definitely beat him
left kite
I mean like a hold mission where you have an area and you need to king of the hill with oriss
terse oar
Hmmm
ocean elm
I think doomfist should have a successor
fringe blade
Its also interesting that Bastion got a Gwishin skin
limpid agate
I think Doomfist is smart enough to not have a successor.
fringe blade
Is it possible that the Gwishin are making some sort of variation of the Bastion for their own use?
terse oar
We saw Busan in the gameplay trailer (although that doesn’t really confirm anything), could it be possible we get a mission in Korea with Dva?
left kite
The Chinese omnics that attacked south Korea are gwishin right?
fringe blade
They aren't Chinese
limpid agate
Considering the last two Doomfists were killed by their successors.
limpid agate
Is it possible that the Gwishin are making some sort of variation of the Bastion for their own use?
Its possible but I do not think it is very practical, considering they are trying to attack from sea.
Bastions are amphibious and can walk across sea floors
Bastion did it, as we see in Binary.
But I do not think it would be very practical.
fringe blade
An attack of a whole squadron of modified amphibian Bastions would probably be quite scary
terse oar
What if we get the Gwishin Omnium as an underwater map
limpid agate
That would be great.
left kite
I want it
peak escarp
that would be amazing
left kite
terse oar
We don’t really have an omnium as a map yet
fringe blade
I wonder if Doomfist will/has taken over the Nigerian omnium
terse oar
Closest thing is Volskaya
limpid agate
No it isn't.
The closest is Junkertown
Junkertown is built in the ruins of a destroyed Omnium.
fringe blade
The Nigerian omnium was pretty massive
terse oar
I thought it was just near one
fringe blade
So I would imagine there could be some use made out of it
Especially if Talon is working with Null Sector
limpid agate
Constructed from the remains of a destroyed omnium, it's now the home to a band of lawless scavengers known as the Junkers, led by their cutthroat Queen
left kite
I want an underwater mission now
limpid agate
From the map's description
terse oar
Ah, my bad
fringe blade
Considering that Doomfist's base is in Nigeria, it seems like a possibility tbh
terse oar
Just a big omnic fish outside of the Omnium
left kite
Like the rig hostage mission in mw2 where you go under water and pop up to wipe out the Korean forces
Like as a bastion
fringe blade
They are allegedly partnered with Null Sector though
I'm sure that a giant, even if abandoned, omnium would be of great use to them
grand wedge
The one in Siberia too
fringe blade
one of the OR14/OR15 models were made there
After Doomfist's attack, I believed the omnium was scrapped
grand wedge
He attacked the airport, not the omnium
fringe blade
Attack on the OR15s **
peak escarp
the OR15s were scrapped, not the omnium
left kite
Poor or15 stuck in the wall
fringe blade
The wording is kinda awkward, honestly
grand wedge
Poor or15 stuck in the wall
@left kite It's Orisa
terse oar
It was Orisa
fringe blade
Following the attack, the program was scrapped, and the civic government sold off the remaining OR15 inventory. Some parts were purchased by eleven-year-old Efi Oladele, a brilliant girl whose early accomplishments in robotics and artificial intelligence had already earned her the Adawe Foundation's "genius grant."```It is, not was : she bought this particular OR to build it into Orisa
young knoll
considering there is a Chicago omnium, is it likely that Chicago is intact?
fringe blade
Detroit
young knoll
detroit, yes, my bad
peak escarp
left kite
Now I want a mission were you as doomfist goes and tears up the nubani airport
fringe blade
That'd be pretty bland tbh
left kite
Hey I'm just spitballing
terse oar
Offline Singeplayer missions would be nice when WiFi goes out or something
peak escarp
the "rules" so far that we've seen for PvE missions is 4-players and at least 1 support
terse oar
That’s most omniums lol
fringe blade
Not really
We know at least something about most of the ones we know about
We just know of this one's existance
That's all
young knoll
considering how disruptive they seem to be, I am curious if detroit survived its activation
terse oar
What if Ganymede dies in the story
fringe blade
The Omnium seemed to be functional after the Crisis
terse oar
fringe blade
At least, that's how I understand it
young knoll
Ganymede dying would not matter
terse oar
But it’s Ganymede
young knoll
just have reinhardt kill it then. apparently it isn't that hard
peak escarp
it's just a bird
terse oar
But it’s a cool bird
left kite
To bastion it isn't
terse oar
I’d be so sad
left kite
It's his friend and calming mechanism
peak escarp
Bastion would be sad but I don't think it would "snap"
it almost killed Ganymede before and didn't snap
terse oar
That’s because it had Vietnam flashbacks
left kite
He almost killed him before because of snapping
left kite
He had flash backs and just held down left click
fringe blade
Big difference lol
left kite
That's what I said
terse oar
It’d be unexpected, that’s for sure
fringe blade
I don't really see a reason for it
left kite
I want to see the new monte carlo map doe
peak escarp
the real question is . . . who named Ganymede?
terse oar
left kite
And what role maximillian plays
young knoll
probably Torb I guess
terse oar
I wonder if the Casino will be fully fleshed out
left kite
The designers and concept artists
young knoll
in universe
terse oar
Not just like a side building, but one you have to go through
peak escarp
aside from the obvious answer of "the devs"
left kite
Like the story writers
fringe blade
I hope Max plays an important part in the plotline
terse oar
He probably will
peak escarp
I want to see the casino as a spawn room so you can smash slot machines
terse oar
Actually, I feel like Max might die
fringe blade
hehe
left kite
Yeah
peak escarp
my prediction for Max is that he'll betray Talon and turn good guy
left kite
I think doomfist will mess him up
peak escarp
or at least, sell Doomfist out to Overwatch again
terse oar
His allegiance to Talon seems to waver, and Doomfist has no problem killing people in Masquerade
young knoll
I doubt he goes good
Casino owners are sort of scummy by default
good business
but
peak escarp
the gameplay trailer showed that he's having second thoughts about starting a war against humanity
fringe blade
I think that he will rat out Talon out of some sort of guilt for what he has done/what he participated in
And will ultimately get killed by Talon
terse oar
That’s what I was saying, his allegiance isn’t set
peak escarp
he's on the Talon council though
terse oar
If he’s ratted his colleague out before, he’ll do it again
peak escarp
that's a pretty big indicator of his alliegance
left kite
Just like the zen on point he's going to get smashed into bits by doomfist
terse oar
And Doomfist knows this
fringe blade
He's also a businessman, so I can imagine him getting the most out of the situation
terse oar
Doomfist probably knows it was Max who ratted him out
peak escarp
there's a great scene in Masquerade, where Doomfist and Max talk about his escape
I get the feeling Doomfist knows Max sold him out, but is either waiting to make his move, or waiting for Max to confess to it
left kite
Have a good day I'm gonna play overwatch and I'll be back to discuss ow again
terse oar
Doomfist is going to kill Maximillian I think
fringe blade
Honestly, it feels like something that Doomfist would do
Wait for the enemy to show their plans and only then take them out
terse oar
He knows
grand wedge
Best comic with Retribution
peak escarp
Max severely underestimates Doomfist if he doesn't think DF knows he sold him out
terse oar
Maximillian knows Doomfist knows
young knoll
he probably figures doom is smart enough to not off him immediatley
fringe blade
Max doesn't seem to be good at thinking straight when he is panicking
Or in a dire situation
young knoll
immediately*
terse oar
“What are you in the market for?”
peak escarp
I think they're just testing each other, to see who will be the first to admit what they know
peak escarp
maybe
terse oar
Because right now the campaign is around Null Sector
grand wedge
The real question is why Maximilien has his pin on every panel except the last one :
peak escarp
it does show us that the omnics giving Volskaya her tech come from Numbani
grand wedge
Seriously? oO
terse oar
Imagine if they referenced Reapers unlimited gun supply
I know it’s just gameplay, but the guns by lore are “to cumbersome to reload”
ocean elm
Will zarya ever stop being racist against omnics
terse oar
Do you blame her though
peak escarp
maybe, but meeting Lynx didn't really change her attitude
now she just likes them specifically (but still hates omnics)
fringe blade
I mean, omnics devastated her home region and she had to grow up in with the destruction the omnics left
She also grew up being taught to hate the omnics
and even when she grew up, the Siberian omnium continued its attacks
So I can see why she hates them, good or bad
cosmic crest
Racist isn't quite the correct term, but she clearly has a prejudice against them (and rightfully so if we are being honest.)
young knoll
more speciesist I suppose
fringe blade
Racist isn't the right term, because racist signifies the superiority of one races over another
cosmic crest
I more meant that omnics aren't a race to begin with.
young knoll
race is a hard term to define now with evolving terminology anyway
peak escarp
for the purposes of narrative they're treated as a race
fringe blade
I think that race is a very broad term anyways
And its used in so many differing contexts that its hard to pinpoint its exact definition
But 'human' is considered a race
So I guess its the same for omnic?
young knoll
no, humans are a species
race isn't really a scientific term the way phylum, species, genus are for instance
not the way it is used historically
cosmic crest
Race is a social term.
cosmic crest
And no, humans are not a race. If anything the opposite is true, all races are human.
To be completely honest, I'm not sure what you would categorise omnics as, but calling them a race doesn't sound accurate.
terse oar
I think they’re a race
fringe blade
Since there are subspecies of omnic, they can't be a race
I think that specie or genus is the most accurate word
cosmic crest
This is were philosophy steps in though, what exactly makes something "alive"? There is no one answer for that question.
young knoll
broadly, they are non biological life forms, so they aren't animalia
cosmic crest
Is there even such thing as a non biological life form?
young knoll
of course, the terminology of "kingdoms" is being fazed out, but they are something else entirely than protozoa, fungus, etc
well, technically no, not in this reality
cosmic crest
I find it interesting.
young knoll
they are considered alive in the story, but they didn't evolve from carbon or arsenic or anything, they were artificially made, so the classification is weird
fringe blade
But again, this is really where philosophy and linguistics step in
terse oar
AI in general is pretty weird
cosmic crest
When it comes down to it, omnics claim to be alive and conscious but we have no way of knowing if that is true or not.
young knoll
we have had this debate before
in universe, they are
we could get back into it I guess
but I don't see it going anywhere
pliant sparrow
Chances are that if they can claim they're conscious they are conscious
peak escarp
Overwatch's universe assumes that they are alive and sapient
fringe blade
Lets not get into philosophy, shall we?
peak escarp
whether that is possible in the real world is irrelevant
this is science fiction, after all
terse oar
Sigma can literally hold a black hole in his hand, so...
fringe blade
Lets just agree that in the OW universe omnics are conscious and sentient
terse oar
^
peak escarp
sapient robots are hardly the most impossible thing in Overwatch
cosmic crest
I believe one of the reasons we have science fiction is to explore advanced concepts such as consciousness and advanced AI.
fringe blade
Self aware AI has had some incredible breakthroughs in the last few years, so the existence of sentient AI in overwatch doesn't really surprise me
Science fiction exists because people want to know more
Humans are curious beings by nature
We like to explore things, learn new things, guess things
And sci-fi is the best way to channel that
in a concise manner
cosmic crest
There are also several references, particularly by Zenyatta, to this whole debate so if Blizzard didn't want us to talk about it they have done a very poor job of expressing that.
fringe blade
^^
young knoll
People have strong opinions
cosmic crest
That's fair.
fringe blade
Its a philosophical question, and its better just to settle on that one opinion
cosmic crest
I know I have strong opinions on things like this.
fringe blade
This is literally what philosophers do all day
Explore questions like this
So lets not dive into that, ok?
Anyways
I doubt that Zarya will forgive the omnics
Its possible, but I doubt it
cold yoke
zarya is racist against omnics?
cold yoke
thats kinda... based
fringe blade
She also grew up being taught to hate the omnics
and even when she grew up, the Siberian omnium continued its attacks
So I can see why she hates them, good or bad```she hates all omnics because omnics are at war with her country and destroyed her home village
cosmic crest
She has a prejudice to put it more eloquently.
cosmic crest
What do you mean?
fringe blade
Prejudice is the discrimination of someone or something without reason
Or not based on actual experience
Zarya has a reason to hate the omnics
cosmic crest
Omnics as a whole yes, but not individuals.
She was distrusting of Lynx purely because he was an omnic.
peak escarp
she is prejudiced against Lynx because of the actions of other omnics
fringe blade
She is prejudiced against Lynx, but not the omnics in general
I don't really know the right word for it
peak escarp
#notallomnics, I guess?
fringe blade
lmao
young knoll
Probably sort of an inadvertent thing? Like not really being able to help feeling something when you see it even knowing it isn’t the same?
Like ptsd almost
fringe blade
I don't think she hates them because she wants to hate them
So you're probably right
peak escarp
updated my visual calendar to add some things I missed, figured I'd share it here
open the full image to read the text
fringe blade
That's very detailed
peak escarp
I like detail
and I like visual representations of data because they make it easier to see patterns and absences
it also makes it easy to predict when regular events will return
my predictions haven't been too far off this year (except Archives, but that surprised everyone)
half storm
How long did it take to make? It looks like you put alot of time into it
peak escarp
I started it back in 2018 and I've been updating it ever since
terse oar
The lines of the Origin Trailers are always just so damn good...
“Call me a vigilante if you want. But truth is, I’m just a soldier”
“I’m going to fight for a better world. For some, that means a bandage. For others, a bullet. Today, I give you the choice.”
peak escarp
they really convey the core essence of the character
spring solar
the core essence of a generic antihero trope lmao
terse oar
Even if they’re a generic trope, the VAs do an amazing job to convey the character
spring solar
i agree - vas are good
terse oar
Can we have Moira or Sigma read a dictionary for the Yule Log this year lol
young knoll
Matt Mercer is a good va
terse oar
The best part is that in most footage, the VAs seem to really enjoy their work
Especially Sombra lol
spring solar
even if they didnt it was a smart move on all of them to further their careers cuz of all the hype
safe bet to assume most of their followings on social or whatever are mostly from ow
limpid agate
Depends on the VA.
Some of them were big name VAs before Overwatch, like Matt Mercer or Jennifer Hale
peak escarp
I know for certain that a large part of Matt Mercer's fanbase came from Critical Role
limpid agate
Some of them didn't really do English VAing, like Cara Theobold (English Live Actress), Elise Zhang (Dubs for Blizzard China), or Matilda Smedius (Swedish Voice Acting)
peak escarp
(that's what brought me in)
fringe blade
The voice actors in Overwach are honestly quite impressive
peak escarp
quite a few of them use their normal speaking voice, maybe with a different inflection
or they pronounce their natural accent more, like Sombra, Symmetra, Ashe
cosmic crest
Irish accents are like a massage on my ears.
peak escarp
I'm happy they went with her natural accent
rather than hamming it up and doing the stereotypical Leprechaun accent
limpid agate
!!shitposting @supple shard
twilit nacelleBOT
@supple shard Shitposting will result in a loss of access.
ocean elm
I never knew matthew mercer was in regular show and fire emblem
peak escarp
he's in a lot of things
ocean elm
Holy shit I just realized he was hit in dragon ball super
terse oar
He’s in regular show?
gilded stag
terse oar
I never realized that was him
left kite
Sombras voice actor voices raize in valorant
fringe blade
The Overwatch VAs are extremely talented
more than people seem to realize
I'm pretty sure that Matt Mercer is the most 'active' or well-known VA
limpid agate
Fun fact. Both the English and Japanese voice actors for McCree voice Jotaro Kujo.
Also, Doomfist has an emote inspired by Sol Badguy, and his Japanese Voice Actor voices both characters.
fringe blade
I guess the voices of Matt and the Japanese VA are similar, so they were both casted to play McCree
But that's pretty cool
limpid agate
fringe blade
Honestly, I am scrolling thru Matt Mercer's bio with all his roles and I am kinda mind-blown
left kite
It's high noon
But I didn't know that
Know I want a jojo or fist of the north star spray or emote
fringe blade
He voices a League character?!
I swear to god, he is in literally every popular game lmao
peak escarp
I'd say Jen Hale is more active and well-known
left kite
Who does he va in ow
swift mason
I know that sym's VA is now in Apex legends, so thats cool
So is Darin De Paul (Reinhardt)
worthy rose
Who’s Torbs Va
mild igloo
I dont know if this has been mentioned but when you watch the cinematics of Winstons glasses breaking he goes into primal rage. i have a feeling this happens not only from getting angry but because those glasses belonged to his "carer" (Dr. Harold Winston), and that he gets upset from them being broken.
also torbs VA is Keith Silverstein
worthy rose
Dr. Harold Winston is basically family to him
mild igloo
hence why he gets angry when the glasses get destroyed
worthy rose
So it would make sense that he’d be pissed when those glasses break
mild igloo
this only makes sense for the cinematics tho becasue in game he just takes them off and gets angry
worthy rose
That’s all he has left of him exept the photo he keeps at Gibraltar
mild igloo
exactly
mild igloo
yep
worthy rose
Oh
worthy rose
I find it funny that Hammond was supposed to go with Winston, but he ends up in Australia
worthy rose
We don’t even know if they see eachother again
mild igloo
basically
worthy rose
Winston and Hammond are indeed friends
mild igloo
when winston goes into primal rage, hammond says "specimen 28 angry levels rising" or something like that
worthy rose
They’ve got interactions with eachother
Like the one you just mentioned I suppose
But we can all agree that winstons primal rage occurs when he loses someone or something special to him
mild igloo
yes indeed
i found their voicelines
Winston: Hammond?
Wrecking Ball: Squeaks
Winston: Hammond, how did you escape anyway?
Wrecking Ball: Squeaks
Winston: What?! Well that explains the drag when I lifted off! I was sure that my calculations were correct.
Winston: We've been through a lot, escaping from the moon.
Wrecking Ball: Squeaks
Winston: You're right, that would be much worse.
so it seems they are friends
swift mason
Its one of those situations where a character that doesn't speak english make one noise, then their friend is like "of course! it all makes sense now! I see what you are saying my friend!"
fringe blade
Its probably not because they are animals
Its probably because they both came from Horizon
And both were enhanced in certain ways
Winston probably spent a lot of time with the other animals there, including Hammond
And probably got the chance to learn 'hamster'
pliant sparrow
It's possible the scientists figured out hammonds language on horizon
Since hammond is exceptionally intelligent himself
fringe blade
It says on the wiki that they can converse because they are both animals
But there isn't any source cited, so I'd guess that its more of a guess than anything
And Hammond wasn't exceptionally intelligent himself
Because of the genetic therapy, his body, alongside his brain, grew in size
They didn't mean for it to happen, IIRC
swift mason
He's not as smart as winston, but has enough inteligence to build his own escape pod and attach it so Winston wouldn't know, as well as the fact that he built (with the help of bruce) a functioning battle-mech with hamster translation
fringe blade
Yes
But that's not his natural intelligence
He was born a normal hamster, as far as I understand it
And as an unexpected side effect of the gene therapy, his body grew
And alongside with his body, his brain grew too
swift mason
You are indeed correct my friend
As his brain grew, the capacity for awareness and knowledge grew too
As well as his life expectancy
He's 14, hamsters don't live that long
fringe blade
Life expectancy increase was probably part of the gene therapy
swift mason
We can probably expect the same with winston
fringe blade
We can't say for sure, but it seems likely
cerulean ice
bruh they grew up on space
swift mason
Winston is 29, gorrila lifespan is around 35-40, so by the gene therapy logic, he might live to human lifespan
cerulean ice
i forgot what i was suppose to say nvm
fringe blade
We don't really know many specifics on the therapy itself
swift mason
All we really know is that gene therapy has the potential to make animals just as intelligent as humans
fringe blade
We can't really say that for sure
A. Its a side effect of the therapy
B. We don't have very many examples
swift mason
That's why i said potential
fringe blade
But yea, it does seem like the therapy can rapidly increase intelligence
Its interesting to see that the gorillas that remain on Horizon don't seem to mind staying there
swift mason
If you think about it, by them killing all the scientists, it leaves more of the food that's available on the colony for themselves
as well as the fact that they are growing it too
fringe blade
Its also kinda weird to see how lax the security protocols seem to be at the Lunar Colony
pliant sparrow
Gorillas kept in a healthy state can live into their mid 50s
fringe blade
I think that its quite likely that the gene therapy somehow extended the animals' life expectancy
fringe blade
Why does it matter
swift mason
Just a thought
fringe blade
Who they were prior to the experiments doesn't really matter
cerulean ice
i didnt rlly read the lunar colony bg till now
fringe blade
They probably just had to be healthy
fringe blade
That's the thing that interests me
If they were killing their 'jailors', why are they so reluctant to leave their jail?>
If they weren't killing their jailors, why kill the scientists at all
swift mason
I feel like it was more of the fact that they never wanted to be part of their experiments
They thought the moon was cool and all, but i'd be pretty upset if you were constantly being experimened on, unless your winston, whom enjoyed the scientists' company
fringe blade
I think I would agree
cerulean ice
people may have noticed this alr but echo sounds way different in the zero hour trailer than ingame
swift mason
She also had a different voice actor for the reunion short
cerulean ice
ive searched on the wikia but its only the one ingame
was there actually a different voice actor or just changing the tone?
swift mason
There were 3 voice actors for echo, the final one being the main one that we hear in-game, i guess the other 2 didn't make the cut
Blizzard might have been experimenting with the voices to see what fits her best
then they came to the conclusion of the current VA
cerulean ice
i liked her somewhat-childish voice in zero hour
but i can understand why they changed that
swift mason
Yeah I quite like the zero-hour voice better than the current one imo, but I guess they wanted to give her a voice with a singaporean vibe, as Dr Liao, her creator, was from singapore
supple shard
o
peak escarp
It says on the wiki that they can converse because they are both animals
But there isn't any source cited, so I'd guess that its more of a guess than anything
the source is Jeff Kaplan
I just can't remember when he said it
hushed jetty
Zenyatta can understand Hammond too, apparently
There's that one interaction where Hammond squeaks and then Yatta says "Indeed, my friend. Indeed."
peak escarp
he could just be playing along, the way people will pretend their pets are talking and be like "oh really? tell me more"
lament prawn
the mech doesnt translate hammond's words in that interaction
i dont think he actually canonically understands hamster, and i dont think he's playing along, it's just too good of an interaction to not have just because of that
playing along might be the excuse, but its not the way the interaction is meant to be perceived
peak escarp
then why would he respond?
lament prawn
it's just meant to be a funny interaction - zen the wise, all-knowing monk also understanding a hamster
peak escarp
gotcha
hushed jetty
I wouldn't be surprised if a bunch of omnics had animal translators though
cosmic crest
A normal animal can't be translated. Hammond is genetically modified to be super intelligent so his squeaks can be translated into human speech.
proud dust
it's definitely just zen playing along
Humans do that all the time in real life, acting like they know what their pet is saying to them and "talking" with them
lament prawn
doesnt read that way to me
zen doesnt seem like the kind of person to play along and humor someone, i think they chose him in particular because he's the wise monk guy so it would be funny if he also understood what the hamster was saying
obviously nothing canon, just a funny interaction for the game
dry portal
I mean he could just be being friendly, even if he is just a hamster
He prolly doesn’t actually know what he’s saying I guarantee
cosmic crest
He's omnic, I wouldn't be surprised if he could understand him.
limpid agate
!!shitposting @lilac spear
twilit nacelleBOT
@lilac spear Shitposting will result in a loss of access.
lime flax
Ive been thinking about reyes a lot lately and just don't understand how he could go from being best friends with gerard, the lead agent against talon, to actually joining talon himself
I have no idea how they're going to explain that
peak escarp
me neither
but I hope it isn't some boring "he was a double agent working against Talon from the inside all along!" twist
lime flax
The only way I could see them doing it is if they gave him a legitimate reason to join Talon. He says he was left to die at Switzerland in one of Ana's comics so maybe the "good guys" like Jack aren't as good as they seem? But he's a literal terrorist killing innocent people so like ???
supple shard
i mean.........
reaper did say in the comic that
"they did this to me"
when ana took off the mask
opaque tundra
I think one of the best answers is that Reyes wasn't happy about how Overwatch treated him or something, some in between that we don't know about yet happened, he became Reaper and then joined Talon
peak escarp
there's a lot of ways to interpret what he means by "they did this to me"
assuming he means Overwatch, it could mean that when he asked Overwatch for help with his condition, they wouldn't/couldn't help him, leaving him to seek out Moira
or it could mean they didn't look for him after the explosion that destroyed the Swiss base, leaving him to suffer in the wreckage
lime flax
I just don't know how they'll write him coming to acceptance with the fact he's working with his former best friend's psychologically conditioned, murderous wife
This wouldn't be what Gerard wanted and he knows that
Especially since Gerard saved his life in Cape Town
I think they've written themselves in a hole with this one
peak escarp
I had a theory that Reaper asked to go on missions with Widowmaker/has her on his team so he could look out for her
because she was his best friend's psychologically conditioned wife
valid terrace
Maybe something happened to one of Reaper’s family members because of Overwatch and we just don’t know about it yet
cosmic crest
I definitely think Reaper has a soft spot for Widowmaker.
valid terrace
She’s his getaway ride
They don’t actually interact with eachother much though, they act very professional compared to some other members
lament prawn
i wonder who 
cosmic crest
Of course they would, Widow doesn't show emotion, and Reaper is committed to being really edgy and dramatic, he wouldn't show it if he felt bad for her.
cosmic crest
Reaper knows about Sombra.
But the question is, does Sombra know about Reaper knowing about her?
I think she probably does.
valid terrace
What doesn’t Sombra know is an easier list to make
lament prawn
if sombra ever gets outplayed/found out/caught, i feel like it'd have to be a big deal and cant be a thing that happens very often otherwise it takes away from her "knows everyone's secrets" trait
cosmic crest
Zarya found out her real name and she was visibly surprised by that.
valid terrace
It depends on what smartest means to you I guess
peak escarp
she certainly thinks she's the smartest
valid terrace
True
lament prawn
yeah, and zarya finding out her name and whispering it to her felt like a highlight of that comic, im just saying that kind of stuff cant happen casually all the time to her
peak escarp
probably to the point of underestimating people because she doesn't think they're smart enough to figure her out
valid terrace
In terms of IQ, I’d say Efi or Hammond purely because of their age
cosmic crest
@peak escarp I think what you say is true, but that doesn't mean she isn't as smart as she thinks she is.
peak escarp
oh she's definitely smarter than most
valid terrace
Yeah but the OW roster is bloated with genius level heroes
peak escarp
she's one of those "smarter than you and knows it" type of smart people
cosmic crest
I get minor Tony Stark vibes from Sombra, in that she's somewhat big headed about her intelligence, but she IS as smart as she thinks she is.
valid terrace
I think the hero able to score highest in an overall intelligence test would probably be Sigma or Winston
Assuming no one cheats the system 😛
valid terrace
I would put Winston above Hammond
pliant sparrow
Maybe
cosmic crest
I would too.
pliant sparrow
I'd put moira on par with sigma
valid terrace
Moira is smart, but it’s more that she’s overly curious and bold that her reputation is based
She hasn’t actually made very difficult breakthroughs if you discount the ethics
pliant sparrow
Mercy and mei are probabaly both very intelligent in their own right as well
pliant sparrow
I'm pretty sure most of the overwatch cast are above average in terms of general intelligence
valid terrace
I would argue almost all of them yeah
pliant sparrow
Exceptions being bastion and maybe junk/hog
valid terrace
Junk is intelligent he’s just clueless
valid terrace
He builds his own bombs and presumably limbs
cosmic crest
Actually, the omnics are probably the smartest purely due to being machines. But they aren't really comparable to the others.
pliant sparrow
Bastion hasn't 'learnt' anything notable really
valid terrace
Actually, we haven’t seen very high feats of intelligence from any of the omnic cast
valid terrace
The best I can think of is Lynx, but he’s clearly below Sombra
undone storm
What other game genres would work for Overwatch, outside of fps ?
cosmic crest
They can still make calculations faster than any human, or at least they should be able too.
valid terrace
MOBA
pliant sparrow
They can still make calculations faster than any human, or at least they should be able too.
@cosmic crest true
undone storm
I mean
To explore the lore more
valid terrace
They should, but we haven’t seen them do so
cosmic crest
Although they might not be as cunning as some of the others.
pliant sparrow
Orisa is also meant to be extremely adept at adapting
undone storm
I think a xcom style of game set in the omnic crisis would be purrfect
undone storm
Would a rpg work too ?
pliant sparrow
No
undone storm
Aww ok
valid terrace
If you want a simple example, most of the Omnics we’ve seen were made, but aren’t makers themselves
pliant sparrow
? Wdym
valid terrace
They haven’t made as many scientific breakthroughs as humans afaik
They don’t invent things
pliant sparrow
Isn't that because they are the scientific breakthrough
valid terrace
Besides possibly floating tech?
Well yeah, but shouldn’t they be capable of making even greater things?
pliant sparrow
Also anubis is a very smart AI
valid terrace
Honestly, an omnic scientist would be a great addition and would flesh out Zen rather nicely by comparison
More that it’s just powerful rather than smart
It’s like a Tesla that wants to take over the world
peak escarp
everyone wants to know who the smartest/most intelligent hero is
what about the dumbest/least intelligent?
valid terrace
Bastion
pliant sparrow
Bastion
valid terrace
Lol
cosmic crest
Junkrat.
peak escarp
not counting omnics
cosmic crest
What about Bastion is unintelligent?
valid terrace
Roadhog?
cosmic crest
Yeah, Roadhog seems smart enough.
valid terrace
Maybe Rein 
pliant sparrow
Bastion lacks a lot of knowledge
peak escarp
McCree isn't terribly smart (but not an idiot either, despite how much of the community paints him), but he's very clever/streetwise
pliant sparrow
Elite soldiers are usually fairly smart
terse oar
McCree is street smart
cosmic crest
I don't think Bastion is really comparable. He is a machine built for a single purpose that has inexplicably gained self-awareness.
peak escarp
he'd be average int, high wis, high cha
cosmic crest
McCree is a bit of a goof, but he isn't dumb per-say.
pliant sparrow
Has baptiste done anything notable other than being a combat medic?
terse oar
Talon I guess
pliant sparrow
And fighting for talon
valid terrace
He set up the entire events of Reunion presumably
terse oar
He made the immortality field, does that count
peak escarp
when you're surrounded by geniuses, it's easy for average intelligence to look dumb
pliant sparrow
I thought he stole the immortality field
terse oar
I think he made it
cosmic crest
I don't think he made it.
terse oar
Maybe stolen the resources
pliant sparrow
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
cosmic crest
He doesn't seem like the crafting type.
peak escarp
inside, retrieving a disc-shaped device. It was something he’d been working on for months, and it was still just
a prototype, but maybe…```Oh ok.
peak escarp
that's kinda the point though
Overwatch wouldn't recruit just anyone
they want the best and brightest
valid terrace
I think they meant the game
terse oar
What about Junkrat
valid terrace
But same principle
terse oar
I guess he made his own bombs
valid terrace
Right
pliant sparrow
Junk is smart enough to plan out and pull off multi million dollar heists
valid terrace
He’s probably the foremost expert on explosives
cosmic crest
Junkrat is a prodigy when it comes to explosives.
pliant sparrow
That's not something someone stupid can do
peak escarp
also yeah, they're not going to put a hero in the game who is just some average person with average skills
cosmic crest
You can be a genius in one aspect and a moron in another.
valid terrace
Dae-Hyun 
peak escarp
it's why some characters we've seen wouldn't make good heroes, like Dae-hyun or Maximilien
pliant sparrow
Ye
terse oar
Maximillian seems pretty smart
cosmic crest
Brigitte seemed pretty normal before she became a hero.
terse oar
He knows to save his own skin lol
cosmic crest
The same thing could happen with Dae-Hyun.
peak escarp
so I guess Blizzard could show them doing something heroic right before adding them as playable
but it seems unlikely for now
cosmic crest
He could be a support of some kind.
But a part of me thinks not every character should be playable.
terse oar
I think he should run the hero gallery
peak escarp
and yeah - not everyone needs to be playable
terse oar
Or shop
peak escarp
let's keep some NPCs as NPCs
lament prawn
it would be really cool to have semi-heroes that don't really have fully fleshed out or polished kits, but are there for the duration of a mission and/or hero missions
but thats a lot of work
cosmic crest
I'm not entirely sure what you mean.
terse oar
Temporary heroes