like rio is one, but that seems like early in the story
#lore-discussion
spring solar
terse oar
The Null Sector base in Rio is an airship
Rialto’s the only Talon base in game (although Monte Carlo will probably change that)
And Havana, nvm
But Rialto is the only one with direct Talon representation
cosmic crest
There is no Talon base in the Havana map.
They might have a base somewhere in the area but it's not in the actual map.
terse oar
Yeah, Rialto is the only one with direct representation
So another one would be cool
Other than Monte Carlo
peak escarp
Reyes is from LA
fringe blade
I've always thought that the Horizon no-grav section/concept was criminally underused
They could've done so much with it
terse oar
They didn’t want to make the map extremely gimmicky
Which is why it’s only that small region
worthy rose
true if each map had a gimmick i think there would be a lot of variety in team compositions
pliant sparrow
It would get very annoying
iron plume
There's an arcade mode in rotation called low gravity which shows exactly why a whole map with it would be a terrible idea
cosmic crest
Having more than that small part of the map low gravity sounds insufferable to be honest.
They were right to not use it much.
iron plume
Not to mention that you'd have to balance for it – and then for every other gimmick/hero/composition combo
fringe blade
I'm not saying the entire map should have been low gravity
Just that they could have done more with the concept, that's all
iron plume
I think there's enough of it
worthy rose
it would be pretty cool for an on and off gravity change in small areas that actually matter
like how those walls move up and down in busan
limpid agate
If you want to do more with the concept
Make an arcade map that does more with the concept
Not a core map
spring solar
thatd b smart - ctf is a wasted potential in ow since theres no map made for ctf
limpid agate
Ayutthaya
spring solar
o good point
cosmic crest
ctf is not really a good game mode conceptually.
cosmic crest
I was about to mention that.
limpid agate
Its not map design
cosmic crest
In TF2, a game that's always had ctf and maps made around it, it's still a terribly unbalanced gamemode.
limpid agate
Even if you had CTF_Face or CTF_Orbital2
It would be shit in Overwatch
Overwatch functionally doesn't work for CTF
spring solar
2fort in tf2 was unbalanced, but it was by far the most popular
cosmic crest
There is a reason ctf isn't played in competitive TF2.
It's fine for a side game mode, but it will never work as a core one.
untold wind
vtf would go hard competitively, just gotta learn rotations
limpid agate
Either way
An Underwater Map would be an interesting and unique design
The Gwisin base would be a prime candidate.
Its speculated that it is an underwater Omnium in the East China Sea
fringe blade
an underwater map and a rainforest map are two maps i am really hopeful for
spring solar
hopefully india map will have cool vishkar tech that translates to fun gameplay
like damn they have some shit coded in like jumpy platforms - obv thatd be op for like x y z characters, but a bummer that they dont utilize it more
cerulean ice
itd be cool to have utopaea as a map too
dim horizon
Where was an India map "unofficially announced" ? Believe I missed that.
spring solar
trailer had an india looking map and blizzcon panel had a india concep
hot heart
Hmm
cosmic crest
I don't think that's Utopaea, it looks kind of... plain? Utopaea is supposed to be high tech I think.
spring solar
they could easily do it like el dorado
would make sense lore wise too
like the rio map is p dynamic in design seeing how we go from the streets to going to the null sector ship core
dim horizon
Thanks for the screenshots @grand wedge
grand wedge
It is absolutely not dorado ^^
dim horizon
And yeah, it would be par for the course for a Utopaea map to not be quite as utopian as Vishkar likes to make out.
spring solar
tru tru vishkar shady af
@grand wedge i know its not dorado, im talking about how dorado map is dynamic going from the slums to high tech shit
im saying how the india map could be similar if they want to incorporate vishkar stuff
cosmic crest
Where were there slums in Dorado?
spring solar
its not exactly slummy but at the start of the map
i have slum in mind cuz of the 76 short
theres los muertos graffiti iirc in the map so possible not the best place to be in
terse oar
If the India map contains Vishkar headquarters, it’d be cool if hard-light pathways appeared
Like say you approach a gap and like in the Symmetra comic, a pathway appears before you
calm cave
iron plume
There isn't one for everything but all canon sources are in pinned comments
There's also this for a starter
!!loreguide
twilit nacelleBOT
This is a guide for people who don't know where to begin with the lore of Overwatch. The first thing is probably to go watch the shorts. They're popular, easy to consume, and pack a lot of story and character.
Shorts Playlist: https://bit.ly/2UQyTeL
There are many comics, short stories, and blog posts as well. The most important ones are:
Binary: https://bit.ly/2IzNvJy
Masquerade: https://bit.ly/2IzNTI0
What You Left Behind: https://bit.ly/2Fh7MRz
There is also an important chain of events following Ana and Soldier 76 (and Mercy at the end):
Legacy: https://bit.ly/2DgM1jQ
Old Soldiers: https://bit.ly/2KLILTV
Bastet: https://bit.ly/2QuXHmM
Valkyrie: https://bit.ly/2CF5JVE
The rest of the stories are mostly optional. Special mention goes out to the Junkers, who have an entertaining string of stories:
Wasted Land: https://bit.ly/2DeKB9G
A Moment in Crime: http://bit.ly/2fMsVYB
Going Legit: https://bit.ly/2InZUkm
The Plan: http://bit.ly/2uZiitC
terse oar
I need to reread all those lol
pliant sparrow
Does anyone have the image where a bunch of overwatch agents where being awarded medals standing next to each other
Rein looked gigantic in the image
supple shard
Lol
supple shard
laughs in petras act
peak escarp
he's enormous
fringe blade
Its always amazed me how much of a giant Rein is
peak escarp
Archives will probably get retired as an event, and the missions will be put into a menu somewhere in OW2
supple shard
Hmmmm.
supple shard
I mean yea they have to make another event
I cant think of a new event to replace archives. Besides, i think theyre just going to do pve that take place in ow2
supple shard
Lol road, who big boi with no armor has more hp
supple shard
Ikr
supple shard
I just want there to be an archives event where winston escapes horizon
peak escarp
Winston didn't fight his way out, he just built a rocket and left
there's nothing there to make a mission out of, even if there was enough eligable heroes
spring solar
true like they could def write some shit up on the spot, but like the only thing wed be fighting based off lore would be monkeys
lapis ermine
and weren't the monkeys only mad at the scientists, not winston?
peak escarp
they didn't like Winston because he sided with the scientists
but they didn't attack him
terse oar
The monkeys literally went ape shit
Anyone else remember the Lijiang wheelchair theory? You guys think we could get a hero out of that in OW2?
supple shard
Yea i scrapped the idea
Im making one where talon infiltrate facility to retrieve sigma
peak escarp
the wheelchair belongs to Dr. Chao, the CEO of Lijiang Interstellar
she's a former Horizon scientist who left before the ape uprising
she needs the wheelchair because spending so long in space affected her bone density
fringe blade
It really pisses me off when one of those gaming magazines/websites makes a 'Possible Overwatch 2 heroes' list or something
They seemingly have no knowledge of the lore
peak escarp
they always name characters who are either dead or would make really boring heroes
fringe blade
Yea
Why is it such a popular theory that Dr. Winston is alive and is going to become the next hero?
Literally the dumbest theory
I have heard in a while
peak escarp
idk
people have said the same about Antonio, Sojiro . . . and now Dr. Liao
they'll say "well Soldier/Ana/Reaper/Genji was dead and they came back!" ignoring the fact that they weren't actually dead
limpid agate
they also ignore the fact that
Of the entire roster of heroes with backstories of being presumed dead
Only 1 hero was ever told to us to be dead
And then came back
fringe blade
Honestly, out of all the characters, why Dr. Winston?
limpid agate
Genji
fringe blade
He is so uninteresting
peak escarp
not to mention the massive plot holes it would create if any of those dead characters were secretly alive
fringe blade
Other 'presumed dead' characters are so much more interesting in their nature
limpid agate
Like, lemme go through the whole list of heroes who have the presumed dead backstory
Ana - Introduced as MIA.
Bastion - Introduced as an initial reveal hero, later we learned it was presumed extinct.
Genji - Introduced as dead in Hanzo's bio. The sole exception.
Mei - Introduced through Mei's Journal, about her settling into present day. Later we learned she was presumed dead.
Orisa - Introduced as dead, but it wasn't Orisa yet. Efi created Orisa from a corpse.
Reaper - Introduced as a mysterious villain. We learned his identity was the presumed dead Gabriel Reyes... When we first learned who Gabriel Reyes was.
Soldier 76 - Introduced as Soldier 76. We learned his identity was Jack Morrison 1 week later, which is also when we learned who Jack Morrison was to begin with, and that he was presumed dead.
Tracer - lol
Widowmaker - Same as Bastion. Revealed as reveal hero, then her bio said she was presumed dead.
I think I missed one or two, but they fit the same as the greater amount of heroes
Rather than Genji
limpid agate
And they were almost all introduced as presumed dead
spring solar
yall have any theories why they tossed in katya as a pfp for blizz? efi is there too and i guess makes sense cuz of orisa - same w liao cuz of echo
but katyas only connection is zarya
young knoll
and sombra sort of
peak escarp
as for dead characters . . .
Dr. Winston - confirmed killed by Winston's bio and the Horizon map trailer
Sojiro Shimada - confirmed dead in Genji and Hanzo's bios
Dr. Liao - confirmed dead in Echo's bio
Antonio - death shown in Retribution and confirmed killed in accompanying lore
spring solar
still tho, w liao and katya - both are weird af to throw in as pfps
spring solar
yes
fringe blade
i dont think the client pfps have any significance
they just used the ones that looked cool
peak escarp
fringe blade
Weren't they on Sombra's map?
spring solar
true, but they were made for the client
peak escarp
they just use art that already exists
spring solar
and arguably some other 'cooler' characters u could use
like tracer gf
conspiracy nut in me makes me believe they got a bigger role coming up
hushed jetty
i wouldn't be surprised if Emily played a bigger role than just "tracer's girlfriend" in the future
spring solar
artwork for katya kinda old, but havent seen that one of liao before
tracers wife in a few years prob
peak escarp
Efi probably, since the Hero of Numbani implies that she and Orisa go help Overwatch at the end
I don't really see Katya or Liao being important though, since Katya is a corporate CEO and Liao is dead
supple shard
Now that i think of it
There were probably diff models of the OR omnics that would include orisa
peak escarp
different models?
supple shard
Ye
Like OR 14 that was seen in uprising OR 15 that were decommisioned when doomfist struck etc
spring solar
i dont think well be fighting any bastion/orisas in ow 2
they made a shit ton of new models and concept art shows nothing similar looking
supple shard
No wut im saying is that there was a model diff in a way
peak escarp
Orisa is unique
fringe blade
I wonder why Efi never commissioned or gave her blueprints of Orisa to the government/people who produced the OR omnics
peak escarp
her whole reason for building her own security bot was because she didn't like the ones the government provided
they were too cold, unfeeling, they didn't feel like part of the community
fringe blade
Well, considering that she was successful in creating Orisa, it probably wouldn't be too hard to replicate her
peak escarp
considering how difficult it was to create Orisa, I doubt she would
fringe blade
It just seems kinda anti-progressive
cerulean ice
well she could since she can but efi wanted to make orisa unique
fringe blade
If her goal was to improve the original OR designs, it would seem to be in her best interest to make sure that all the future OR omnics would be like Orisa
cerulean ice
atleast from my understanding
spring solar
i mean she just a smart kid
spring solar
realistically she not gonna have control over government and military policies
fringe blade
I mean, if they were presented with Orisa, I don't know if they wouldn't reconsider
peak escarp
maybe once Orisa is more experienced and proven, they might want to use her as a prototype, but right now she's only a few months old
fringe blade
I suppose that's one of the major problems with Orisa
terse oar
I wonder if Efi has to pay for Orisas damage
peak escarp
she does
peak escarp
that's where a lot of her grant money goes
buying/building Orisa only took up a portion
Yesterday hadn’t gone exactly to plan, but maybe it was too soon to deal with target practice. In any case, after a lengthy discussion with the civic defense department, Efi made a promise to use the next quarterly installment of her grant money to make a sizable donation to the Numbani Arts Commission to help pay for a new statue.
With all the damage Orisa had caused around the city, it’d be another six months before another naira of her grant money could actually be spent on her robot.
she may have created a clumsy robot, but at least she's a responsible robot mom
terse oar
I mean, she crushed a car and can make a mini black hole/tobelstein
peak escarp
it's described as an energy lasso
worthy rose
It’s more of a Mini Zarya Grav that floats and pulls people in for 1 second
peak escarp
Orisa started chasing after him, but even at her fastest speed, she was no match. “Halt! Stop right there!” Orisa called. “Cease your resistance.” She threw out a hard-light lasso. Her aim was good, but her anticipation skills were lacking, and she kept hitting where the man was a half second earlier.
worthy rose
Wait that’s what the ball thing is?
peak escarp
nevermind, that's what she had before she got the Tobelstein reactor
Orisa hustled faster than Efi had ever seen her move, and the robot fired a green orb over the side of the catwalk. By the time Efi made it to the edge, Bisi was caught by the graviton surge from the Tobelstein reactor and yanked back onto the catwalk.
it is a mini graviton surge
peak escarp
but graviton surge isn't a black hole
worthy rose
If grav was a black hole then technically everyone would be dead?
peak escarp
yeah
worthy rose
Makes sense
peak escarp
the supercharger was something that the OR15s had, but Orisa's was broken until Lucio repaired it
worthy rose
So that’s why it looks like a bongo
Deadlock gang has importance is OW2 correct
Cause I know there’s gonna be a mission in Route 66 with Ashe
worthy rose
What’s the difference of hero missions and story missions?
peak escarp
hero missions can be used with any hero and will have changing objectives and are designed to be very replayable
story missions are the missions that go through the narrative of the story (like the Rio mission shown at Blizzcon) and will have a limited hero selection
peak escarp
yeah
spring solar
i dont think theyd kill off any of the playable heroes
worthy rose
I mean they said they’d be willing to kill off anyone
peak escarp
"willing to" isn't the same as "planning to"
spring solar
right i do remember that, but i doubt theyd have the cajones to actually do it
peak escarp
it would probably be someone like Reinhardt
worthy rose
I hope not
peak escarp
and even if they did, they'd still be playable in the game
worthy rose
He’s the best grandpa in the game
spring solar
the villains like reap and widow, seems like theyve been written so we dont necessarily hate them and have some sympathy
peak escarp
he's old
he's got a replacement already
he's a fan favourite
worthy rose
There’s really no way to find out
terse oar
If anyone’s gonna die, I think it might be Winston
terse oar
He started the recall, he’s gonna end it
worthy rose
And when he does end it, there’s probably no more lore
spring solar
follow the wow route and keep them alive so u can milk a shit ton of expansions and content
terse oar
Lol
peak escarp
I imagine the Null Sector Arc will just be the first of many story arcs for Overwatch
second, technically, if you count Recall
worthy rose
Null sector might be the first arc
Second might be Talon
Then Idk ab third
Colossus?
Government?
Vishkar, Helix?
spring solar
i feel like itll be a 3 act structure
since null sector is the shit theyve been showing us the most, safe bet to say theyd start w it
they probably go around maps picking up and meeting new ppl like lucio in rio
worthy rose
Probs go to Busan
spring solar
then talon cuz we know talon and null sector got hands in each others pants
3rd act is like thanos - big bad - big fight - climax shit
worthy rose
If they go to Busan, I want to see Lucio, Dva, Rein, and Genji
spring solar
we have
spring solar
go to the busan map and laugh at how small they are
worthy rose
I’d like to see the Jet Pilot
Or D.Mon
The real question is
Are we gonna see the Gwishin and Colossus
charred karma
who is that?
worthy rose
Two omnics
peak escarp
Gwishin are the omnics that D.Va and the MEKA squad are fighting against
the colossal omnic is one of the gwishin that rises from the sea every few years to attack Korea
it's probably a Titan, like the ones seen in Destroyer and Zero Hour
worthy rose
I didn’t know the one in Zero Hour was a colossus
It looked a lot smaller and different
peak escarp
they're a similar scale
and capability - both of those omnics shot giant lasers
just a different design
peak escarp
those and more
worthy rose
Exept Bastion of course since there’s only the one that torb adopted
dapper patrol
we know there is inside portion from some of the models, from torby's jolly adventure
We do not know if other E54 bastions are functional
worthy rose
Those are dead
dapper patrol
we know only THE bastion we know glitch and woke up in that circumstances, with guidence of decades from nature to smoothen his spirit
worthy rose
Bastion is the last of his kind
dapper patrol
we know some bastion unit is in Null sector
so last bastion is not true in a way
last bastion of his model series and build and mind yes
but other bastion type proofen to exist, at least during null sector
dapper patrol
there is also the tank types we see in russia, and where genji pillow up on during his training (dead one i assume, btu with lights)
those are general still functional omnic war type i mention though
as for Null sector specific yes
though not all are new, the slicer dogs are more like a slight upgrade and reskin
trooper seems to get an upgrade though
and yes those flying detector drone looks better
worthy rose
I wonder what the fat ones gonna do
dapper patrol
boss
think of it as spell caster
so like support, or summoning, or buff
floating bee hive thing might be the new bomb
the one around is probablly a dps mage type
worthy rose
I think it’s gonna be more of a Support, Damage Boost, Heals, Speed boost etc
terse oar
I really hope they’re going to have bosses in the story
Not just special units like the Heavies, but genuine boss fight
undone storm
the rhino one is a boss fight, we've seen that in the brazilian mission
fringe blade
That's what I was hoping for too tbh
A huge-scale boss battle
Against one of the colossus'
drowsy dome
i think i would like to fight a colossus
limpid agate
That would be cool. I think I would to have a map that is entirely on or in a colossus.
fringe blade
That might actually be interesting
But programing good AI to make the fight interesting would probably be difficult
terse oar
Some workshop modes have really good AI, I think Blizzard could do it
terse oar
What do you mean?
fringe blade
It shouldn't feel like you're playing against a doomfist bot
fringe blade
The fight needs to be interesting, with variation, change of location, different moves, attacks, etc.
It would probably be easier to make a brand new colossus ai than invent some sort of new skill-set for DF
terse oar
Maybe it could be a Talon fight if they can’t make a solo Doomfist fight work
A Colossus fight would be awesome to
fringe blade
Maybe even some sort of multi-level fight too
Like, you engage him on the streets
Then you fight on the actual colossus
maybe inside him?
terse oar
Probably inside
terse oar
There really is, but we don’t completely know how they’re approaching the story mode
Because I doubt it’ll be 100% like the Archives
drowsy dome
are they continuing the achieves next year?
fringe blade
wdym 'continuing archives'?
limpid agate
They said not all events will return to OW2
So it depends on if OW2 is out yet or not
limpid agate
I don't understand your question
arctic loom
of not coming more new events to ow 1 just only 2 now
pliant sparrow
If doomfist was turned into a boss he would be very different and have way more abilities than the doom you play as normally
I can't type today ffs
limpid agate
of not coming more new events to ow 1 just only 2 now
@arctic loom Overwatch 1 is Overwatch 2. You just dont have the PvE
So if they make a new event like, say... An event based around Easter.
Overwatch 1 players who didn't buy Overwatch 2 would still probably get to enjoy the seasonal event
But they are using the opprotunity of "Overwatch 2" to remove some old events.
Archives is redundant, and Anniversary would be meaningless if its no longer the release of the game
terse oar
I love how this channel has become lore/OW2 Speculation 
valid terrace
Generally it’s just a prediction channel for anything that affects the game
valid terrace
Outside of gameplay balance that is
Oh yeah
That’s the big prize that keeps getting further away
peak escarp
considering that OW2 will be lore based, I don't see a problem
valid terrace
Yeah most I see is people guessing on missions in various capacities
peak escarp
there's not much else to discuss
terse oar
Which heroes you guys think will be major in the story
Other than the ones revealed already
valid terrace
Besides those obvious ones, probably Orisa
D.Va for a mission or so and maybe Pharah
Assuming you mean anyone that wasn’t seen in the cinematics so far or hasn’t been confirmed otherwise
terse oar
I never thought about Orisa, but she probably will seeing as Efi appreciates Overwatch so much
Other than people in Zero Hour and Soujourn
And obviously Talon
limpid agate
If you read Hero of Numbani, then the liklihood for Orisa is ||certain||
valid terrace
In that case Torb, Bastion, Reaper, Doom, and Lucio
limpid agate
||The final chapter basically confirms that they are taking a "Sojourn" abroad to help someone||
valid terrace
Zenyatta will also be featured
terse oar
I don’t see how Zenyatta could be a major part... maybe as the unifier between humans and omnics
peak escarp
it would be easier to list the heroes not likely to be featured
terse oar
Most likely yeah
limpid agate
Aside from those in Zero Hour:
- Lucio and Sojourn are part of the core Overwatch team.
- Torb/Bastion were shown to be part of the Gothenburg mission.
- Zen is shown to be part of the India mission.
terse oar
Hmmm
I think Pharah could be included
She’d finally be able to have her dream of getting into OW
So I think she’d support the recall
terse oar
limpid agate
My predicted list of characters absent from Overwatch 2's story are:
Ana, Ashe, Junkrat, McCree, Pharah^, Roadhog, Sigma, Soldier 76, Hammond, Zarya
Jump
^ I only think Pharah will appear if Helix is made to be the third enemy faction. It will give her a choice between OW and Helix
terse oar
A third major faction would be interesting to see
I guess they’d kind of represent the government in that case
Why would you say Ana and S.76 won’t be included?
terse oar
But Soldiers trying to find the people who took down OW
Idk about Ana, but I think Soldier will appear
valid terrace
In what way?
“Hey help me kill Reaper for no reason other than personal vengeance thanks guys”
cosmic crest
If Soldier appears so will Ana.
opaque tundra
One way that Ana and Soldier can appear is near the end with a final battle with Talon or something. The two could pop up, say hi, everyone will be surprised, fight Talon, and Talon escapes whatever, Ana and Soldier leave
valid terrace
Eh
cosmic crest
That's kind of lame tbh.
valid terrace
I think we’ll see them later
opaque tundra
Lmao I just made something up
terse oar
I could see OW hunting down soldier since he’s a prominent vigilante
valid terrace
At best we might see Soldier feeding us comms on what to do while he chases Reaper
terse oar
Then surprise it’s him
valid terrace
Mercy knows who it is
cosmic crest
Neo Overwatch must know that 76 is Morrison since Mercy joined them.
terse oar
Maybe
limpid agate
The core Overwatch 2 campaign is about Null Sector vs Overwatch
And there might be some Talon vs Overwatch following that
Might
limpid agate
Talon will be fought in the campaign
We know that much.
But the core story is trying to stop Null Sector
valid terrace
^
limpid agate
But there will also be a lot of post-launch content
terse oar
Not knowing anything kinda sucks, but it’s understandable lol
limpid agate
They can expand upon other stories afterwards.
opaque tundra
It would be really cool if we fought Talon soldiers and Null bots at the same time
limpid agate
Soldier/Ana have no interest in teaming up with Overwatch, nor is their goal fighting Null Sector.
I would expect that we will get to see more of them in post-launch content though
Soldier/Ana/Hamind Faisal/4th character
cosmic crest
I hope we get to see the leaders of Null Sector get fleshed out so they will be more than just bland killer robots.
terse oar
@opaque tundra Doomfist was making a deal with presumably Null Sectors leader, so maybe (although that was after Storm Rising)
limpid agate
4th character could be anyone really, but based on the current cast...
I'd say its most likely Soldier/Ana/2 new characters
One of which is most likely Hamid Faisal
terse oar
Who dat
cosmic crest
What makes him more likely to be present than any of the other existing characters?
terse oar
Oh
limpid agate
They talk about him in Bastet in a familiar context
valid terrace
Maybe Sombra would finally switch sides and hit the next step in her storyline
If she thinks they can win
limpid agate
Other existing characters are either:
- Unrelated to Overwatch/The Old Soldiers with nothing suggesting a link (Mauga/Junkerqueen/Lynx)
- Are related to Overwatch, but so unimportant that they might not ever pop up (Mirembe/Kimiko/Emre)
limpid agate
Maybe I should have divided that into 3 groups
valid terrace
He won’t be teaming up with them
cosmic crest
Mauga seems like one of the most likely candidates since we were supposed to get him instead of Sigma originally.
limpid agate
- Unrelated (Junkerqueen/Lynx)
- Unimportant OW members (Fio/Emre)
- Enemies (Mauga/Sanjay)
terse oar
Ah
limpid agate
The discussion isn't who is most or least likely to become a hero
The discussion is
Who is most likely to both, become a hero, and be playable in an Old Soldiers plotline post-launch
valid terrace
Right
limpid agate
Mauga isnt that
terse oar
Maugas definitely going to be a hero though
limpid agate
Ok. So?
terse oar
Just saying
valid terrace
Do you think we could we potentially see Ana pull Rein and Torb in for a full reunion against Reyes?
limpid agate
Mauga and Junkerqueen are both confirmed by Blizz to be things they're working on
terse oar
To answer Draco
fringe blade
Honestly, I would be interested to see another MEKA member become a hero
limpid agate
@valid terrace I feel like none of the cast would work in an Old Soldiers plotline for 3 reasons.
fringe blade
Mostly King
terse oar
Maybe Mercy?
limpid agate
1 - They need to trust their ally (So no Baptiste)
2 - Their ally needs to be actively willing to join up in this vigilante crusade (So no retired Torbjorn)
3 - I personally don't think a current Overwatch member will leave to join this troupe (So no Reinhardt)
The only character I feel might qualify is McCree
terse oar
I was thinking McCree to
limpid agate
But I don't think their interests align
limpid agate
Nah, the vigilante group is exactly what McCree would join
terse oar
More like an “oh, ok”
limpid agate
He doesn't think he is good enough to join Overwatch
fringe blade
What do you mean by 'Old Soldiers'?
fringe blade
Ah
terse oar
The vigilante side story
terse oar
We don’t know what Blizzards planning, who knows
limpid agate
Soldier/Ana/McCree/Hamid Faisal
terse oar
I just hope it all doesn’t follow cliches
limpid agate
Sounds reasonable to me
fringe blade
Its funny
We're all building plans and theories and such
And then Blizzard will release absolutely none of them
terse oar
Pretty much
The only theory I can think of that has come true is Hammond being a hamster
But that’s more of solving a puzzle
limpid agate
Multiple theories came true
fringe blade
I'm not saying theories don't come true
Just that the community has a lot of expectations
limpid agate
I'm not expecting this. I'm just speculating what could play out.
limpid agate
If they were to do an Old Soldiers post-launch series of missions
I think it would contain Soldier/Ana/Hamid Faisal/either McCree or a second new hero
terse oar
Is this speculation after or before OW2
Depending on how her lore is revealed, maybe Soujourn?
limpid agate
After.
3 - I personally don't think a current Overwatch member will leave to join this troupe (So no Reinhardt)
terse oar
Ah darn
limpid agate
Also applies to Sojourn and Mercy.
That 3rd point is not fixed, I could be wrong there.
terse oar
True
terse oar
We just don’t know enough about Soujourn to make a statement though
“She in original OW” that’s about it
limpid agate
She was a captain in original Overwatch, and was around for >20 years as one of its oldest non-founding members
cosmic crest
I think Sojourn took Ana's job after she "died".
limpid agate
And when I say captain, the previous captain was second in command (Ana Amari)
So its a high ranking role
cosmic crest
^
terse oar
We don’t know her ideals and thought about OW though, so again, we can’t really make a statement
Even though this is all speculation
limpid agate
No, we can't. But we do know that she joins Winston's Recalled Overwatch in the campaign.
terse oar
And that’s all we’re told
limpid agate
That's enough for my speculation
cosmic crest
We really should have had some new info by now.
terse oar
I guess, but I guess they don’t wanna have to retcon stuff they’re not happy with
cosmic crest
What do you mean?
terse oar
Like say they release a new design of Brigitte and show it to the public for OW2
But then after some thought, they choose a different design and release that one instead
It’d make them look incompetent, and they’re trying to make this perfect
cosmic crest
They wouldn't show off a finished redesign they weren't happy with.
terse oar
But they can change their minds
cosmic crest
I don't think that's how game design works.
terse oar
Like for example, Dva was a StarCraft pro player, but now she’s just a pro gamer
They retconned it
cosmic crest
You can't just completely finish a redesign and then decide to throw it away.
terse oar
They kinda can though
They don’t have a release date, so they can take all the time they need
cosmic crest
Well they announced it and have given us 9 months of radio silence, so they really should show us something.
People are getting antsy.
terse oar
They should, but most companies these days are pretty quiet
Biggest example that’s off topic: Nintendo
fringe blade
We're gonna get something at Blizzcon
cosmic crest
Blizzcon got delayed.
cosmic crest
I don't expect them to announce anything until Blizzcon, I just think they should.
terse oar
Does Blizzard typically got to Pax
limpid agate
Our last lore drop was June 2nd
We might get something this month. Hopefully a short story.
fringe blade
They usually don't, but with the current atmosphere/world situation, I can see them taking the chance
Pax is a big event
Huge, I would even say
I don't really know why they wouldn't
fringe blade
gamescom*
fringe blade
There's also the Tokyo Game Show happening in like 3 weeks
Also Dreamhack in November
So more than enough opportunities prior to Blizzcon to give us something
Some sort of short story or comic would be nice
Maybe even short, who knows
terse oar
I doubt we’ll get anything
If they’ve kept radio silence for 9 months, it’s gonna continue
cosmic crest
What do you mean?
limpid agate
You are not going to see anything Overwatch at Tokyo Game Show
cosmic crest
We haven't had anything on OW 2 for 9 months.
limpid agate
That is the last place they would announce anything
limpid agate
A short story this month or even just a random tweet is probably our best bet
fringe blade
We got the Hero of Numbani on the (2?) of June
limpid agate
Soldier 76 and I think the Junkers were announced via random tweets
Yes
So its only been 3 months
fringe blade
Nothing specific on OW2 though
limpid agate
Even if you only care about gameplay content
Its still not 9 months of silence
Echo dropped in April
cosmic crest
I was talking about OW 2 when I said radio silence.
limpid agate
Its still not 9 months of silence
Echo dropped in April
And a main character in Overwatch 2. Would you rather they just didn't release her when they announced her?
fringe blade
We also had the Overwatch Staff Q&A a couple months ago
That didn't give us much
But had some neat info
fringe blade
Some related to OW2
cosmic crest
If they hadn't announced OW 2 Echo would have dropped all the same.
limpid agate
Alternatively, they could have announced Echo as the second hero for OW2 and not release her
Would you be content with that lack of radio silence instead
cosmic crest
Don't you want new information?
limpid agate
Would you be content with that lack of radio silence instead
We did get new information
Her name was Echo
cosmic crest
I'm sorry, but I'm really confused by this. What about Echo's release told us anything about OW 2?
limpid agate
Alternatively, they could have announced Echo as the second hero for OW2 and not release her
@limpid agate > Would you be content with that lack of radio silence instead
@limpid agate
And a main character in Overwatch 2. Would you rather they just didn't release her when they announced her?
@limpid agate
fringe blade
Echo also gave the OW2 story quite a lot of set-up
Her appearances (short etc.) give us quite a few clues about the potential things that might happen in OW2
valid terrace
They certainly didn’t have to release Echo as a playable character in Ow1, considering she won’t play a significant role until Ow2
limpid agate
They said until
valid terrace
Nw
limpid agate
They 100% didn't have to release Echo
They could have made her hero 33
And launch with Sojourn
Instead, they chose to release this OW2 main cast character in OW1
Which world would you prefer:
- Echo is released, no news about anything else OW2 (aka our world)
- Echo is announced not released, no news about anything else OW2
99 out of 100 people would pick our world.
It's the exact same scenario in the end. Radio Silence started in April
Our last lore drop of Hero of Numbani in June also held OW2 teasers
But that was just teasers in a novel rather than an announcement
fringe blade
I still think that PAX is a good chance for them to release some sort of content
Its a large enough stage, with enough people interested in it
limpid agate
They've already announced the schedule
No Activision Blizzard
The VAs will have a panel though
Two actually
But just the VAs.
fringe blade
That's unfortunate
It'll be interesting to hear the VA panels though
The cast has some interesting personalities on it
limpid agate
One is just vas talking, the other is about diversity in OW
spring solar
plus good chance theyll do an online blizzcon or something
limpid agate
They confirmed an online Blizzcon
In early 2021
I'd estimate Jan/Feb
I forgot their exact wording
lament prawn
when would you estimate announcing the date for that
limpid agate
November
lament prawn
yeah i'd guess they'll announce the dates whenever blizzcon was meant to happen, so november
but given that this is new-ish territory and the different factors involved, it will most likely be sometime early next year.
this is the exact wording
doesnt really say anything apart from the "most likely" bit telling us its not confirmed
but its more or less confirmed if they felt comfortable making it public
lament prawn
i wouldnt consider it "early" if its past Q1
so anywhere from jan-march
the earlier the better
cosmic crest
February is my best guess.
lament prawn
yeah thats kinda where im looking. it cant really get later than march, so ill set my expectations primarily there, and january is best case scenario which i wont expect, so
i just hope we get a date so i can finally tune out and stop wondering
swift mason
Honestly, if we get OW2 news later than earlier, then the hype would be extreme and news will be given out left right and center
lament prawn
im starting to second guess our assumptions about OW2’s launch window (mid-late 2021)
if “blizzard soon” is 2 years, i dont wanna know what “early in development” means
terse oar
What will happen to the special and limited time skins (Maestro Sigma, Flying Ace Winston, LEGO Bastion, etc) with OW2?
peak escarp
they'll probably get retired
terse oar
Will they be part of a paid battle pass? Disappear?
spring solar
itll still be coded in the game just locked away
peak escarp
they're already legacy items
terse oar
But I feel like that wouldn’t be fair to new players, especially when a bunch come in for OW2
peak escarp
why does it have to be fair?
terse oar
Idk
peak escarp
if something is a limited time offer, it's a limited time offer
spring solar
for example, im pissed off i had to put hours into hots for oni genji and now its 1k
only thing thats exclusive are some dumb sprays now
peak escarp
even worse, if they made the premium skins available for free later, nobody would ever buy skins again
spring solar
^
peak escarp
because they'd just assume it'll come out for free later
like with Demon Hunter sombra
terse oar
But I’m saying part of a paid battle pass, or bring them back temporarily (maybe for an increased price or something)
peak escarp
it was said in the fine print of the Blizzcon 2018 virtual ticket that the skin would be made available at a later date, and people nagged Blizzard constantly about it
terse oar
True
It just doesn’t seem right imo for newer players to not have a chance, especially if they’re OW2
peak escarp
I missed out on Blizzcon Bastion and the Summer Games 2016 spray and icon because I didn't have the game
I'm not going to start petitions saying Blizzard should make them available to me
spring solar
fuck new players, they shoulda played earlier
peak escarp
I can't think of any game that retroactively gives new players limited time content
spring solar
plus theres already so much content for them, making shit come back makes the skin less exclusive
limpid agate
I can't think of any game that retroactively gives new players limited time content
I can think of multiple
terse oar
Im not saying just give it to them for free
terse oar
I recognize that
limpid agate
The Oni/Officer skins were put into lootboxes because of console problems
Not because of new players
swift mason
Hey wouldn't this go in #overwatch ?
peak escarp
I'm a console player and I got them
limpid agate
Yes.
I'm a console player and I got them
Most console players don't also have a PC where they can play HotS
Its why they play PC games on console.
spring solar
blizz has been putting back in some old content in hs, but like v old shit for small windows - hs for sure is nowhere close to how popular it is so why not
if they do put old shit back in, itd be in a long time when ow2 starts to die out and they can use it as a 'pls play the game again'
terse oar
Why?
swift mason
We haven't gotten any lore drops since HoN, why do you think this month?
limpid agate
Because we haven't gotten any lore drops since HoN, and September is usually a filler month.
Nano D.Va in 2018, Lego Bastion in 2019.
We've gotten a skin challenge at this point 2 years in a row
It could be one not tied to any lore at all, but its been a while since the last short story of Valkyrie, and it would be a good way to reignite interest in this downtime.
spring solar
feel like ow 2 gonna drop in may 2021
peak escarp
a challenge is pretty likely, but a short story is less so
terse oar
“No no, he has a point...”
peak escarp
unfortunately
terse oar
We got a cinematic with Nano Cola, and nothing for LEGO, so this could be true
peak escarp
the cinematic technically came first
lament prawn
our last 2 challenges weren’t lore related, we’re due for a short story i think especially since its past the 5 months (?) it usually takes
terse oar
Unless you count LEGO as being for LEGO
peak escarp
the Nano Cola challenge came later
terse oar
But it was mainly to promote the cinematic or the other way around
limpid agate
The only challenges not tied to content were LEGO Bastion (tied to merch) and Mardi Gras Ashe (tied to Mardi Gras)
terse oar
They showed the skin after the cinematic
lament prawn
also, chu said there’d be some lore content leading up to OW2 as a setup, it cant be just HoN and valkyrie
limpid agate
^
terse oar
He left though didn’t he
swift mason
But Chu isn't around anymore
terse oar
Sadly
lament prawn
so?
peak escarp
doesn't change what he said
lament prawn
the work doesnt disappear
spring solar
still personally believe chu made genji his self insert
limpid agate
So? That doesn't mean they're going to just throw out everything he had worked on into the trash and restart
swift mason
I just hope that the other writers know what they're doing
terse oar
Imagine they just drop a cinematic out of nowhere
swift mason
That would be a welcome surprise
peak escarp
still personally believe chu made genji his self insert
@spring solar why?
he always said he was more like Moira
peak escarp
and Genji/Hanzo were based off of Jiro Dreams of Sushi
he was asked if Genji could use the bathroom and he answered
peak escarp
he didn't just volunteer the info that Genji has a penis
spring solar
he chose to respond
peak escarp
he was being interviewed
terse oar
Well now I know Genji does indeed have...
terse oar
Who is the new writer after Chu?
spring solar
u dont need to be a michael chu apologist, like i said personal opinion
peak escarp
Michael Chu: If you look at the Blackwatch Genji skin, you can see that Genji has some body missing. But I would like to confirm that Genji 's bottom is still normal.```it's a terrible opinion based on incorrect information
terse oar
Imagine having one question to give to a writer and it’s about if Genji can go to the bathroom
terse oar
I’m dumb, I thought of a panel
spring solar
no its a personal opinion, blizz ppl always self insert themselves into their own games such as wow - ie personality, character names, item names, etc - blizz writers are also end of the day still nerdy af too
terse oar
Just look at Jeff 
peak escarp
I also know that a lot of people accusing Chu of making Genji his self insert have also sent him death threats over the lore
spring solar
ur point being?
terse oar
That’s a bruh moment
peak escarp
so forgive me if I think poorly people who hold that opinion
spring solar
ive never sent him any death threats lmao
spring solar
im still allowed to believe that michael chu has made genji his self insert, while still being sane and rational
terse oar
why is the community like this
@lament prawn they just are man... they just are
spring solar
hell zarya is based off a blizz employee in terms of looks, not unlikely personality/looks are also based off of other employees
swift mason
The VA's have all my respect because they absolutely don't deserve to be treated like that just because their character isn't liked much
limpid agate
hell zarya is based off a blizz employee in terms of looks, not unlikely personality/looks are also based off of other employees
No she isnt.
swift mason
Yet they still play the character
terse oar
The VAs give this game so much life
spring solar
she not?
limpid agate
No
terse oar
Most footage I’ve seen, the VAs enjoy their characters to
spring solar
p sure i read that somewhere - let me try to find a source
terse oar
Zarya is based of an employee
swift mason
I think Carolina Ravassa (Sombra) and Sym's voice actor (forgot her name) are the most enthusiastic about their roles in the community
spring solar
the only source debunking it is a reddit thread that says 'my friend asked her and she said no'
that one
terse oar
Reinhardts VA (sadly don’t remember the name) is also hella enthusiastic
Dude passed out candy at blizzcon
peak escarp
well then what's your source that says she is?
spring solar
well hell if i know, always heard that shit thrown around and assumed it to be
young knoll
the reddit post had some sources
valid terrace
Wasn’t Jesse McCree the name of an employee?
spring solar
if im wrong im wrong
terse oar
@valid terrace I think?
lament prawn
even if that is true, i wouldnt call that a self insert
valid terrace
It’s not since he wasn’t a dev and it wasn’t his idea iirc
peak escarp
valid terrace
Nice
peak escarp
he has an epic beard
limpid agate
Torbjorn is also named after a Blizzard employee
terse oar
His Stache is top 500
valid terrace
You would not see that guy and think Game Dev lol
terse oar
Matt Mercer approaches blizzard to voice McCree didn’t he?
Rather than the other way around
opaque tundra
McCree definitely aged over the years
spring solar
right that wouldnt be a self insert, thatd be design inspo, but shit blizz always makes meta self referential humor - characters literally based off of employees - a self insert doesnt have to be based off an employee, but its still a writer taking advantage of his position to 'put himself in' the story
peak escarp
how can it be a self insert if Genji is nothing like him?
spring solar
a self insert doesnt have to be accurate
peak escarp
aside from "asian male"
spring solar
its like
limpid agate
Then how is it a self insert.
spring solar
its an idealized representation of urself
peak escarp
that's literally what a self insert is - you inserting yourself into a story
opaque tundra
Is it because genji Asian because that's pretty weak evidence. Feels like you just want a reason to hate Chu honestly
terse oar
I don’t think Mr. Chu wields katanas in his free time
spring solar
not literally lmao
valid terrace
If it was a self insert, wouldn’t he reveal that instead of denying it?
limpid agate
spring solar
u dumb
limpid agate
Play nice.
spring solar
thats the definition of the trope
limpid agate
Don't call people dumb for disagreeing with you.
young knoll
you really insulting the mod?
spring solar
i posted the link to help u guys understand what the self insert trope is
thats all the link is for
limpid agate
I know what a self insert is. Genji is not a self insert.
opaque tundra
Dude, no one agrees with you that Genji is Chu's self insert so I don't see why you should keep talking about it
peak escarp
young knoll
well that settles that
opaque tundra
It's ok to have an opinion that no one agrees on, just don't act so pushy about it
valid terrace
The only thing the two have in common, besides genetics, would be a blonde love interest
But even they have nothing in common beyond looks
young knoll
there is a lot of variance within "racial" groups anyway
spring solar
aight say im a writer for something - i have creative freedom and im writing a character, i decide ok this concept is my favorite and its super cool and if i were to escape into my fantasy this is what i would want to be, so i make him super buff, super handsome, super cool, and super strong - does he look like me? no. does he do close to anything that i can do? no. but its the character ive written to be as the idealized version of myself in this story and it would still be a self insert
young knoll
ok, but he claimed he doesn't even closely identify with genji
valid terrace
How can you even say it’s a fantasized version of himself
limpid agate
Genji is not a self insert. Full stop.
young knoll
in the quote Doctor_Six just put
valid terrace
He’s just Asian
limpid agate
This discussion is a waste of time.
lament prawn
a lot of the characters are “buff and handsome” lol
spring solar
right like in the og statement, personal opinion - yall decided to ask for why, then disagree with my opinion, then disagree on the definition of the concept of a self insert
opaque tundra
Yeah let's talk about Null theories
limpid agate
If anything, McCree is the self insert.
spring solar
mccree is a name reference
limpid agate
I mean of Michael Chu. Not of Jesse McCree.
valid terrace
Echo is the self insert of Liao 
limpid agate
Yeah let's talk about Null theories
@opaque tundra What is it you would like to discuss.
terse oar
Echo is the self insert of Liao
@valid terrace
spring solar
u guys should dust up on the definition and concept of the trope
valid terrace
I just read it
terse oar
Argument stop. Now
opaque tundra
It was most of a suggestion but my biggest question is how the Null bots got the technology to make null bots and ships. I know it's most likely Talon but how did they get it during Uprising
limpid agate
Null Sector probably has an omnium under their control.
terse oar
Invaded omniums
limpid agate
The Omnic Crisis omnics were also able to create armies of bots and giant warships.
terse oar
The got a whole airship in Rio
limpid agate
And that is possibly pre-Talon. We don't know how old Talon is, just that it was a high priority organization 8 years ago in Retribution.
Which is, unfortunately, the earliest we have seen of them.
But Null Sector's forces seem to match a modern version of the Crisis forces.
young knoll
how do the omniums procure materials, especially without supply being disrupted?
limpid agate
We don't know what materials they even require
opaque tundra
Human supervisors and suppliers?
limpid agate
But they were created from self-improving algorithms.
So if one resource was low but another was in surplus, I would imagine the Omnium would adapt materials.
Perhaps they refined Hard Light technology. That existed back then, as seen in Honor and Glory
young knoll
is there any information on what the constructs consist of?
limpid agate
No
young knoll
ok
opaque tundra
Hard Light does seem reasonable, considering it can be used to build buildings
opaque tundra
A better question: how is hard light even made?
I wouldn't be surprised if in the Overwatch universe, a new element was discovered and that's what's used in most technology
young knoll
that would be somewhat ridiculous, but it would be something
limpid agate
A better question: how is hard light even made?
From light?
young knoll
ok, but is that literally true?
terse oar
Idk
lament prawn
is hardlight just the blue transparent part? because symmetra’s turrets and teleporter also have the white metal-looking bits on them
valid terrace
If I had to guess some science goop, it probably emits a wavelength that alters the light in its range to be solid somehow
Which is why most of them are emitted from a central point
lament prawn
because if hard light can take more forms than just the blue bits, that opens a lot of room for cool designs that form themselves out of nothing (such as the equivalent of nanosuits we were talking about the other day)
cerulean ice
sym literally creates a teleporter with ease
i would assume its kinda like a hologram
then it forms to a physical object of that image
spring solar
ye was looking at the comic to see what shit it does canonically
hologram comms, teleporting, shields
flashlight, but thats probably just 'normal light'
lmao
cerulean ice
no idea how its made
or the properties of it
but its the future
so eh
the devs just made up the idea of "hard light" and just existed without a thorough explanation
spring solar
most likely
peak escarp
it's a common trope in scifi
cerulean ice
"because its the future"
spring solar
concept writers can easily abuse for whatever
peak escarp
most don't bother to explain it further than "it's light made hard"
young knoll
which causes a lot of problems, such as "if it is that easy and useful, why not use it for literally everything"?
spring solar
the easy writing escape could just be 'only vishkar knows how to properly utilize it' or some shit
peak escarp
but it's not exclusive to Vishkar
spring solar
yall are all correct, but no doubt that hard light is a core part of symmetra and vishkar concept identity moreso than other characters and corps
terse oar
Vishkar patented it I think
spring solar
accept friend request so i can dm you @peak escarp
terse oar
They could maybe be the only supplier
peak escarp
why
spring solar
to talk off topic lore
peak escarp
you can @ me in general
cerulean ice
i think hard light just exists everywhere
spring solar
well supposed to be one on one convo
cerulean ice
but its kinda like a gunpowder
peak escarp
no thanks
spring solar
aight ill just say it here then, i understand u have solid lore knowledge and are a good go to, but the way u carry conversations are whack - u got a knack for wanting to be 100% correct on things that can or cant be disproven - which kinda ruins theory crafting, would be cool if u can let opinions soak instead of being so contrarian on opinions
just putting it out there cuz argument a few days ago, argument today
lore could be less argumenty no?
cerulean ice
m lets stop there
opaque tundra
That's kinda hypocritical since you dragged out your self-insert argument but ok. I won't acknowledge it anymore
peak escarp
I don't care about opinions
I care about facts
if you get the facts wrong, I'll call you out
cerulean ice
ah dear hes typing
spring solar
for sure, but its a good thing to keep in mind for anybody - lore discussion usually goes like talk about things that have happened - which can be proven through canon stuff - but the open for air stuff, ie future events, theories, etc - those u cant hard prove yes or no - u can def say 'dont think itll happen based off x or y' but unless its super out there in the realm of impossibility, like ???
right but both arguments u and i had were about opinion based shit or theory shit
opinions are opinions and the word theory implies that its open for impossibility right off the bat
young knoll
can you take this to general
cerulean ice
i dont think that helps either
spring solar
right i did ask to dm him cuz maybe we can find common ground where its less argumentative
peak escarp
if an opinion is based on incorrect information, then it's a bad opinion
spring solar
cuz its a lame thing to drop opinions or theories and have it go no no no u wrong and are nitpicky
fringe thistle
vish prob invented it
spring solar
right, my theory was based on facts and ur theory was based on facts, but u turned it into a 'mine is more right than urs' argument