I might be misremembering
#lore-discussion
fringe blade
peak escarp
the big one in Zero Hour is probably a Titan too
fringe blade
There was one in Paris
young knoll
I thought you were referencing the Gwishin Colossus that is known for attacking South Korea and departing for a later date specifically
peak escarp
fringe blade
It was piloted by Sven, right?
peak escarp
yep
similar size and capabilities to the big one from Zero Hour
design is different, but that's less important
fringe blade
Anyways, some sort of massive, complex boss battle against one of those would be kinda cool
spring solar
@limpid agate who tf are the two ow females in the white coats in the battle net pfps
ones vishkar connected but whos the other one
peak escarp
how about a fight where you can break parts of it to take it down
limpid agate
1 sec
peak escarp
they've already shown that certain units will have damageable parts
limpid agate
Katya Volskaya is the head of Volskaya Industries
Mina Liao was a member of Omnica, and she created Echo.
spring solar
whats the diamond org
the one below vishkar in the conspiracy pic
my money is on vishkar being the big bad - they been teasing them so much more than anything else
hell look at how small and out of spot helix is in that pic
fringe blade
Just because they are small in that pic doesn't mean they aren't going to play a larger role later
spring solar
no but they role theyve played is small as shit
fringe blade
So far, Vishkar's isnt much bigger
spring solar
yes it is
fringe blade
We barely know anything about it
spring solar
no but we know they have a larger role because of how much shit theyve teased w it
fringe blade
The only fairly large thing I can think of is Sanjay
peak escarp
am I blind? Vishkar isn't on that picture
peak escarp
the V?
cerulean ice
yes
peak escarp
that's Volskaya
fringe blade
That's Volskaya
spring solar
oh damn u right
fringe blade
Vishkar isnt even on there
spring solar
just saw v
cerulean ice
i remember lumerico and vishkar having negotiations though thats what i thought
spring solar
but still weve gotten more vishkar teases than helix
peak escarp
the one Volskaya is connected to is Numbani
fringe blade
Helix has appeared a lot more times
peak escarp
since Katya is getting her tech from a Numbanian omnic
fringe blade
I am pretty sure, anyways
peak escarp
Helix was seen in Mission Statement and Valkyrie, and has a presence on the Anubis map
fringe blade
They also held DF
peak escarp
that too
spring solar
sym comic, sanjay in moira, sanjay in df comic, lumerico in sombra, vishkar emails, etc
did vishkar specifically pop up? no - but all have close enough ties w sanjay, sym, lumerico
fringe blade
Helix were mentioned by name
Many times
Featured in maps
Interacted with key characters
peak escarp
we're not talking about characters associated with Vishkar/Helix
we're talking about the companies themselves
Helix has been seen way more than Vishkar
spring solar
u got pharah comic, df, and 76
cant think of anything else
and key people tied to the companies definitely count
fringe blade
Because currently, Helix International (as a company) plays a bigger role than Vishkar (as a company)
spring solar
when characters are directly and heavily tied to it then it def counts
peak escarp
peak escarp
it's connected to Pharah's mission to put down Anubis
fringe blade
Helix also allows Pharah to come into play
And Pharah is related to Ana
Which could potentially lead to something too
spring solar
right but thats speculation
peak escarp
that's not speculation
we saw Helix dealing with Anubis in the comic Mission Statement
spring solar
Helix also allows Pharah to come into play
@fringe blade
this is speculation
what i was referring to
fringe blade
That's not really speculation
spring solar
it is because its not canon
fringe blade
What isnt
spring solar
shit that is canon
fringe blade
What isn't canon about that though
spring solar
a lot of shit could potentially allow pharah to come into play
fringe blade
Helix being a major character definitely allows her to come into play
spring solar
but we dont know what will so we dont know - she already has close ties to ow, so we cant say its helix that will make her come into the story, it could just be that her mum calls her up
but we dont know
cuz thatd be speculation
worthy rose
Ana used to be in overwatch
worthy rose
Exactly
peak escarp
Ana left two messages for Pharah already, we don't know what her response is
fringe blade
And McCree
It doesn't matter what happened in the past
What matters is the present
fringe blade
No
spring solar
ana and 76 are still protagonists and 'good guys' even if theyre not overwatch
fringe blade
He's a gunslinger for hire
spring solar
modern ana and 76
spring solar
no it isnt
fringe blade
That's not canon!
worthy rose
But the real question is what is his “unfinished business”
spring solar
76 in his animated short was def a good guy
fringe blade
That's just your opinion
worthy rose
He technically was
fringe blade
Me saying that 'Helix being in OW2 allows Pharah to come into play' is as much canon as what you said
worthy rose
He could have caught those villains and let The girl die
fringe blade
So please don't twist the meaning of words to fit your own agenda
spring solar
???
fringe blade
You can't just call one thing speculation and something else not speculation
spring solar
76 was literally a good guy protagonist in a canon animated short
thats not speculation
thats canon lore
what lets pharah come into play isnt canon lore because theres no canon media for it
its also speculation because it hasnt happened
worthy rose
True
spring solar
76 and ana were also portrayed as good guy protagonists in a comic
worthy rose
Bastet?
cerulean ice
bastet
fringe blade
The definition of good isn't a good one
peak escarp
Bastet isn't a comic
fringe blade
What's good and what isn't
peak escarp
Old Soldiers
worthy rose
Ye that one
spring solar
dude they are still protagonists
scott pilgrim is still the protagonist even if hes a self centered narcissist
ozymandias is still the antagonist even if he killed millions
worthy rose
Soldier and Ana are protagonists
spring solar
to save billions
worthy rose
Same goes for reaper and doom exept they are antagonists
peak escarp
what are you arguing about?
worthy rose
Idk
dry portal
What
fringe blade
idk
i dont like people accusing me of things and then doing those things themselves
spring solar
what did i do wrong?
peak escarp
Soldier is an antihero
spring solar
u literally speculated
peak escarp
but he's still a hero
dry portal
I’m so confused what’s happening
spring solar
im using canon media
worthy rose
So like Venom?
peak escarp
he does bad things for good causes
fringe blade
I just said that Helix being a company in OW2 allows Pharah to be a part of it too
I don't know how that's speculation
That's just fact
fringe blade
Yes
spring solar
thats speculation because pharah hasnt come into play
fringe blade
allows
worthy rose
But we don’t know If helix is even included in OW2 right now
fringe blade
Yes
fringe blade
That doesn't make what I said speculation
Helix allows her to be in the story
That's just fact
spring solar
yes but so does a lot of other shit
worthy rose
Well I mean it’s sorta not speculation actually
worthy rose
Cause helix has to be included In the story at some point
fringe blade
It doesnt matter if helix is in the story or not
but my words
are not speculation
in any shape
peak escarp
Helix is already involved in the story
peak escarp
we're suggesting that they might be more involved, as a key antagonist
fringe blade
I mean OW2 story
worthy rose
Wait so helix is an antagonist?
peak escarp
they could be
dry portal
I mean they’re just a security corporation right?
spring solar
anything ow2 related that hasnt been shown to us is speculation @fringe blade even if shit is very highly likely
worthy rose
Yeah
fringe blade
Mercenaries for hire, essentially
peak escarp
they occupy the same position Overwatch held when they were active, and could be called in to enforce the Petras Act that makes Overwatch activitiy illegal
dry portal
One of talons puppet companies could just buy them out and use them
peak escarp
they are essentially Overwatch's rivals
fringe blade
This is pointless @spring solar You are just not understanding a simple english sentence
So there's no point
lets just move on
spring solar
you are just not understand a simple english sentence
worthy rose
I can see Vishkar being an antagonist
fringe blade
Okay, whatever
peak escarp
children, behave
fringe blade
Anyways
cerulean ice
possibility
spring solar
how u gonna say that and fuck up ur own grammar lmao
worthy rose
Mother knows best
spring solar
you are just not understand, dont worry i forgive u
peak escarp
please refrain from personal attacks
peak escarp
I don't want to have to call the mods
fringe blade
😨
spring solar
i am understand, no personal attacks
peak escarp
as long as we am all understand
spring solar
too many people are just not understand
peak escarp
fringe blade
that is such amazing very good idea!
Anyhow
I think that both Vishkar and Helix are likely candidates
spring solar
yes but vishkar has had more lore drops
worthy rose
We have more lore about Vishkar than Helix
peak escarp
we do not
worthy rose
Really?
fringe blade
We know almost nothing about Vishkar
spring solar
does not mean we havent had more lore drops
hell look at lore wikis on helix vs on vishkar
spring solar
fringe blade
Ah
spring solar
did u read it
peak escarp
Vishkar has appeared in: A Better World, Symmetra's Bio
Helix has appeared in: Mission Statement, Pharah's Bio, Doomfist's Bio and related release teasers, Valkyrie, Temple of Anubis
solar pagoda
imagine if the lore had a crossover with rainbow six
worthy rose
I-
solar pagoda
just imagine
peak escarp
!!shitposting @solar pagoda
twilit nacelleBOT
@solar pagoda Shitposting will result in a loss of access.
solar pagoda
thats not shitposting buddy
spring solar
vishkar appears in lucio bio and https://playoverwatch.com/en-us/news/20353652/
worthy rose
That’s Lumerico
peak escarp
thank you
worthy rose
Speaking of Lumerico I think that could be a potential antagonist
spring solar
lumerico is heavily tied w vishkar
peak escarp
Lumerico is too small scale, and doesn't really have any conflict with Overwatch
"heavily tied"?
spring solar
In addition, emails revealed conversations with Indian megacorporation Vishkar to explore the exporting of LumériCo's proprietary energy systems to Vishkar's developments worldwide. Vishkar itself has recently been the subject of inquiries regarding its business dealings, particularly in the wake of its newest projects in Rio de Janeiro. Given the amount of investment Mexico has put into LumériCo, a partially state-sponsored energy company, its cozy relationship with Vishkar should be a cause for concern.
peak escarp
Portero and Sanjay exchanged some emails
that's not heavily tied, that's a private business deal
worthy rose
Sanjay is from syms comic right?
peak escarp
yes
worthy rose
The one that people think is working with talon?
spring solar
except u forget the part in the lore that rio hates vishkar
fringe blade
He is working with Talon
peak escarp
he is working with Talon
worthy rose
Oh
peak escarp
he's on their council
worthy rose
Then would Vishkar somewhat be working with talon?
peak escarp
peak escarp
we don't know if Vishkar knows about Sanjay's connection to Talon and condones it, or if Sanjay is doing it behind their backs
cerulean ice
if possible, then talon could take over vishkar
peak escarp
why?
fringe blade
That would be quite a reach
spring solar
take over probably not, but influence vishkar to do shit that lines up w talons goals for sure
fringe blade
We don't really know what Sanjay/Talon's plans are for Vishkar
spring solar
we dont know what talons plans in general are
but theyre still the baddies of the story
fringe blade
Considering that they united with the Null Sector Leader, they likely want the omnics to win
Not even likely
Almost for sure
peak escarp
Talon is helping Null Sector start their war, to push humanity towards greater achievements
as per Doomfist's ideals
worthy rose
How do we know this tho
fringe blade
Know what
peak escarp
Doomfist is providing the conflict that will force humanity to evolve
cerulean ice
they know more than we do dont question lol
spring solar
@worthy rose its just very likely speculation
peak escarp
- at the end of Storm Rising, we see an omnic with Null Sector colours speaking to Doomfist about fighting for his people
- 2 weeks after the events of Storm Rising, Doomfist is arrested and imprisoned
- several months after Winston's recall, Doomfist escapes prison
- in Zero Hour (which happens a year after the recall), Mei asks Winston "why are Null Sector attacking now?"
the logical conclusion is that Null Sector is attacking now because Doomfist escaped prison and was able to put into motion the plan he made with the Null Sector omnic 6 years ago
also during a Storm Rising stream with ohnickel and fareeha, Jeff Kaplan said that the omnic's plans had to be put on hold when Doomfist got arrested
worthy rose
What you just said made me think of a possible map for OW2
Singapore
Winston, Genji, Tracer fought there against him
fringe blade
Doomfist himself also says
Humanity has always been tested. Conflict and war is the crucible through which we evolve. Every battle makes us stronger....
worthy rose
Which they won because tracer disappears for a while with her time disease
peak escarp
I was hoping we'd get the streets of Singapore as a deathmatch map
worthy rose
Well I’m sort of not wrong
peak escarp
it has been shown that he can go into primal rage at any time
he doesn't need an emotional trigger
spring solar
when has that been shown
worthy rose
If that’s the case then why didn’t he just use primal rage at the start
peak escarp
he does it in Recall
cerulean ice
doomfist trailer
worthy rose
That’s when his glasses got destroyed
peak escarp
it's probably something he can only do for a limited time
so he wouldn't want to just use it right away
cerulean ice
winston prefers not to go angry
worthy rose
Same thing happened when they were fighting at the museum
peak escarp
or maybe it's just rule of cool
spring solar
easier answer is plot armor and that we dont know how it works
peak escarp
in Recall, he just does it when one of the Talon grunts slips on a banana peel and his arm gets free
his glasses only get smashed in the museum short
fringe blade
The other times when something emotional happens prior to his rage were just plot points done for emphasis or whatnot
worthy rose
Forgot ab that
peak escarp
in Recall he took them off before the fight started
Winston can only use primal rage when the plot calls for it
😛
worthy rose
Lmao
peak escarp
so like I said, rule of cool
fringe blade
I honestly never really understood how the recall even worked
how did Winston have such accurate information about everyone?
peak escarp
Overwatch agent database
fringe blade
Were they tracked?
worthy rose
Lmfao
fringe blade
The locations seem to be fairly accurate, so did they have some sort of GPS chip or something?
worthy rose
Winston’s a secret hero stalker... nah I’m pretty sure he just knows their base of operations
spring solar
it happened so we just have to accept it happened
worthy rose
Or the database just knows where they live
peak escarp
they probably kept tabs on all the agents just in case
cerulean ice
that depends
the world is literally being invaded and overwatch can only stop them) cliche?
with the act being pardoned
imo
peak escarp
the UN might decide to suspend the Petras Act because Overwatch is fighting the invasion
worthy rose
Lmao
fringe blade
cough cough Helix cough cough
spring solar
speculation
worthy rose
Same, sorta like One peice where the government’s always after the protagonists
But it helix working with the in?
UN*
peak escarp
if the UN was going to try to enforce the Petras Act, I would bet money that they'd get Helix to do it
worthy rose
So in other words they want overwatch gone and let helix take over
peak escarp
the UN has used Helix before
Questions have been raised about the effectiveness and methodology of Helix, which in recent years, has greatly increased its profile as the world's security force. But after a number of high profile incidents, including the breach of a similarly top-secret facility in Egypt, those who have objected to the increased privatization of security following the shuttering of Overwatch will have been dismayed that Helix has requested, and been granted, additional funding by the UN to cope with rising threats.
worthy rose
I just realized, the man in the storm rising ending scene might be the leader of null sector
fringe blade
Wasn't it confirmed?
peak escarp
it's not outright confirmed, but it's strongly implied that he is connected to Null Sector
whether he's their leader or just part of it, we don't know
fringe blade
It does say on the Overwatch Wiki that Jeff confirmed it, but I can't find the video fragment anywhere
I think that's most likely a (mistake?)
worthy rose
Oh yeah I see the resemblance
fringe blade
It also makes sense plot wise
worthy rose
He looks like a mix of OR14
frosty shell
Also re:Recall I imagine that the UN has the power to bring back Overwatch if they want to hence why they keep tabs on everyone
terse oar
The Storm Rising omnic will probably be more prevalent in OW2
My guess is he’ll be a boss fight gameplay wise, story wise he’s supporting Talon with Null Sector
swift mason
Are you refering to Maxmillien?
cerulean ice
so are zen's abilities canon or no?
worthy rose
He floats in that OW2 story-mode trailer, thats all i know is to be confirmed
cerulean ice
heroes are usually associated with technology as for their abilities
but
a floating robot that can transcend and two magical dragons are questionable
worthy rose
knotty nimbus
Winston needs another ability
hushed quail
so are zen's abilities canon or no?
@cerulean ice so I saw something about zen a while back and I can't remember if it came straight from blizzard or not so rn it's just speculation, but zen is a monk who travels the world helping people find peace right? The shambali wanted to stay secluded but zenyatta believes the best way to bring peace to the world is through the iris. Ok now that I got that out of the way I'll get to the point. Supposedly Zen's orbs are figurative. His harmony orb represents him motivating them, inspiring them while his discord orb is him exploiting their weakness which is why they take more damage. As far as his ult goes I'm not sure if that is also figurative or not but this might explain why he has very little lore.
dire oyster
my name is iplexs2221
terse oar
How would transcendence work in the lore
Like some heroes can do crazy shit, but Zenyatta is literally becoming a higher life form
cosmic crest
I don't know why Zen's abilities aren't cannon. It's not like they can't be explained through technology.
I think it's just discord orb that's non-cannon actually.
cerulean ice
mercy questions how his orb can heal which is probably a hint that its not canon
imo
cosmic crest
I would of thought the opposite.
They brought mention to it, so that means it's probably cannon.
Also, just because Mercy doesn't understand it doesn't mean it's unexplainable.
cerulean ice
i didnt consider it as it is because visually his orbs are projected as ball of light
that might be for gameplay effects though but still
worthy rose
the orbs could be biotic tech like mercy's staff :0
oh unless mercy's staff isnt canon
lament prawn
mercy questioning it means that at least some form of it exists in the lore (his healing potential, that is). why would she question something that doesnt even exist in their universe?
cerulean ice
late
lament prawn
what
worthy rose
true, interactions can be very helpful
lament prawn
but we dont know the extent of his healing potential (like how brig can heal well on the fly in-game, but in-universe she can build armor and knows only basic first aid)
worthy rose
if the tech of ow is as advanced to have a war of man vs machine, the orbs probably are just really advanced devices that can track people in its vicinity or somethin
cerulean ice
i wouldnt consider the orbs being canon as well actually but
his transcendence is questionable
cosmic crest
Transcendence is probably even easier to explain.
cosmic crest
The arms are probably just holograms.
cerulean ice
well..
lament prawn
if trans is canon, its one of the abilities i'd rather they leave unexplained. because if they do explain how it works, it kinda takes away from the spiritual charm of it (like if they explained the shimada dragons)
cerulean ice
actually it may be a hologram now that i think about it
im dumb
i thought zen mightve actually transcended to a higher being
cosmic crest
The shambali aren't really that spiritual though, they just talk about humans and omnics all being one.
I don't think they have ever mentioned believing in God.
lament prawn
all we know is that nothing in OW is magic, but for stuff like dragons/trans, i feel like explaining how they work technologically would take away from them a bit
maybe spiritual was the wrong word, i didnt mean they believed in god
cerulean ice
idk it bothers me alot
they obviously didnt think about how the abilities would work in lore when they were designed
lament prawn
i just mean like, their "magical aura" would be less magical/mysterious if its explained as some tech (even though we know it has to be "some tech")
cosmic crest
I just think saying an ability is non-cannon is kind of lame.
Especially when it probably could be explained with some effort.
cerulean ice
if it can be explained
i agree how its lame they cant be canon but if its gonna be then it should be somewhat explained reasonably
kinda like mei's cryo freeze
lament prawn
it could be explained, but it would need some good writing to be convincing. zen wasnt in a teleporting plane accident, he never got a computer implanted into his brain, he didnt invent biotic healing. he's just, a monk. (not a bad thing, but it makes it harder to believe he has these crazy abilities)
cosmic crest
I just see it as a bunch of holograms and a burst of healing, I don't see what's so hard to explain about it.
cerulean ice
thats not convincing
cosmic crest
What do you mean?
cerulean ice
)what i said?
swift mason
But then there’s his harmony and discord, chu said they weren’t actual canon abilities
lament prawn
he goes around helping people mentally, i dont see why he'd have physical biotic healing on him, which is why if he does, it needs better explaining than that
its not that his abilities are too insane to fit in the universe, its why he, in particular, would have them in the first place
cerulean ice
healing orb because he helps people mentally? thats kinda of an eh
my problem is i just want it to be somewhat realistic
cosmic crest
We are going to get more lore on Zen at some point so he will likely have a good reason to have his kit soon enough.
cerulean ice
But then there’s his harmony and discord, chu said they weren’t actual canon abilities
@swift mason source?
lament prawn
we'll know soon enough which of his abilities are canon and which arent, but they arent gonna disable non-canon abilities from heroes' kits in story missions
cosmic crest
Also, Zen appeared in the OW 2 trailer, if he is playable in a story mission there will be no getting around saying his abilities are cannon then.
lament prawn
like, if we find out, for example, mercy's pistol isn't canon, they arent gonna remove it from the gameplay side of the story missions
just the cutscenes
cerulean ice
zen in a story game would be kinda just the guy that would give you the missions, like a npc
lament prawn
i do believe parts of zen's kit are canon, just maybe not the way we see them in-game
cerulean ice
probably just me
terse oar
In the game, Zenyattas abilities are described as being controlled by omnic energy
The orbs around his neck harness that
cerulean ice
whatever that is
terse oar
I think they just kinda BS’d it
cerulean ice
they did
terse oar
Although I guess it could be emotional/mental
cerulean ice
because when he was designed they thought like;
terse oar
That’s what Inspire is I think
cerulean ice
"oh lets add a floating robot with floating orbs"
"and let him transcend to a higher being despite being a robot"
terse oar
Because they have souls 
I wonder how Lucio would work canonically
Like his gun works yeah, but the music effects
Because if he can heal people with music, is his club just a hospital?
cerulean ice
the best doctor in the world
terse oar
“Doc I feel sad”
“Alright, I got you these concert tickets...”
cerulean ice
worthy rose
muted stump
lmao
limpid agate
Lucio and Brig don't heal
There are only two forms of canon healing
Mercy's biotic tech - Ana, Baptiste, Mercy, and Moira use this
pliant sparrow
And zen's right?
limpid agate
And then Zenyatta - We don't know how or to what extent he can heal, or is the Harmony orb even exists
terse oar
Biotic healing and typical first aid seem to be the main, canon healing
However there are also health packs, as seen in Baptiste’s origin trailer
We don’t really know what those are though lol, just that they are prevalent in combat
cosmic crest
Lucio was in the Rio mission so his healing must be cannon.
dire oyster
iplexs#2221
terse oar
The only official, lore mechanics of Lucio we know if that Lucio’s able to peacefully unify people through his music
We don’t see him healing in that cutscene, so we do not know
cosmic crest
Yes but he was in the mission and the mission is cannon.
terse oar
But we don’t see him healing
In that cutscene
We just see him wallride and boop, but we already know his Weapon is canon
cosmic crest
the mission is cannon.
terse oar
The mission is canon, but we see gameplay
We don’t see him heal in the cutscenes, which would be more accurate
cosmic crest
They can't give Lucio an ability in the actual cannon mission and then say it isn't cannon, that isn't good writing.
terse oar
I’m saying that he only heals during gameplay
cosmic crest
Yes, that's what I'm saying also.
peak escarp
gameplay is non-canon
terse oar
We do not see him heal in the cutscenes though, so we do not know if it’s canon
peak escarp
even in Hero of Numbani, Lucio didn't heal
he did energize people with his music, which I guess could be extrapolated into healing/speed boost
terse oar
He gets them hype
It’s not physical healing, but it’s like that adrenaline rush at a sports game
peak escarp
and he says Orisa's supercharger works similar to his tech
the supercharger seems to give people an energy boost
cosmic crest
When you write for a video game, you ideally want to present the story and concepts through the gameplay. However, saying that certain abilities in the gameplay aren't cannon is doing the literal opposite of that.
terse oar
By that logic, Zenyatta is bad writing
cosmic crest
It's only made more confusing by the fact that the mission is cannon and is shown to us through the gameplay.
peak escarp
I'm just saying it's not literal healing, it's making people feel better and more energetic
terse oar
It’s like Brig I guess
peak escarp
which in game terms translates to restoring HP
terse oar
Brig is mentally healing by “inspiring” people
limpid agate
There are only two Canon forms of healing
terse oar
Biotic
limpid agate
Mercy's biotic tech: Used by Ana/Baptiste/Mercy/Moira
peak escarp
and Soldier
limpid agate
And Zenyatta, whose healing is unknown. It might not even be Harmony Orb.
lament prawn
the gameplay parts of the story missions will include all abilities, even if they aren't canon or dont function the way they do in canon. they're pulling all the story out into cutscenes, while allowing the gameplay in the middle to function as proper gameplay. for example, i can equip the chain pulse bomb ability as tracer, doesnt mean her bomb does that in canon. lucio has healing as an ability, but he doesnt have it in canon or in the cutscenes. mercy will still be able to perform rez the same way she does in PVP, but not in the cutscenes.
terse oar
We don’t even know if that’s canon lol
If damage boost is indeed canon, what about Baptiste’s matrix I wonder
Because Immortality Field is
lament prawn
also, they're working on letting you pick from more heroes. for example the rio mission had brig, winston, echo, and mercy in the dropship - they want to let you pick those heroes if you dont want to play tracer/mei/lucio/rein
that makes the gameplay parts even less "canon" but more fun/flexible
terse oar
Exactly
The gameplay of missions, while the settings and enemies are canon, are not fully representative of the canon
lament prawn
even if you remove the freedom to perform all abilities or pick from more heroes, the mission still wouldnt be pixel-perfect canon material, considering you can play it the way you want and take the routes you want
cerulean ice
now that youve mention it i wonder how immortality field works now
limpid agate
We see it in WYLB
cerulean ice
obviously not literal but
terse oar
It’s confirmed canon in his short story, but not explained
limpid agate
It saves him from am explosion
terse oar
It has a button that he pushes, that’s all we know
cerulean ice
maybe just intense burst of healing
limpid agate
It's not
terse oar
My guess was something along the lines of thin hard-light
limpid agate
I think it's an impact suppression field
cosmic crest
All I'm saying is, for a game story, the gameplay and the story need to co-exist. When you start saying "Oh, so and so isn't cannon because gameplay." you create a disconnect.
This was less of an issue with PvP because that wasn't cannon, but the story missions will be.
limpid agate
Let's look at the most basic, fundamental part of the game
cerulean ice
was gonna say shockwave suppression but yes
limpid agate
You're playing. mission as Soldier 76
terse oar
I see your point, but at the same time they have to make sure it’s fun
limpid agate
You shoot a person in thr head 4 times
terse oar
Plus I doubt they want to explain every ability in every way
cosmic crest
@terse oar well then that's lazy writing.
limpid agate
No it isn't
Explaining every ability is canon is poor writing because it forces a lore explanation for every gameplay function
terse oar
By that aspect of every ability having lore, how do you explain infinite ammo?
limpid agate
There is 0 canon reason for a Talon Enforcer to survive a hanzo arrow through the skull, but they can.
peak escarp
how do you explain some bullets hurting less than others
terse oar
Shield bash doing the same damage as sleep dart
lament prawn
what would be boring is disabling cryofreeze in the mission "because its not canon" which would also remove the super fun looking "snowball" talent she has
terse oar
Genji’s melee doing the same as a punch
cerulean ice
thats not necessary
limpid agate
If you want a game that tried making lore and logical exceptions, Rainbow 6 tried that
then started undoing them
cosmic crest
An ability isn't like an arbitrary game mechanic like health or ult charge, it's a physical thing the character has or can do, thus it demands more explanation.
limpid agate
Because it turns out, is a terrible idea
peak escarp
people don't play games for realism (unless it's simulators, I guess)
lament prawn
but removing abilities, or not making them in the first place, just because theyre not canon is even less fun
they've outright said they're pulling the majority of the story out into cutscenes, because they want the gameplay to be actual enjoyable gameplay
terse oar
If every ability were to have lore, it’d probably make the overall writing worse
limpid agate
^
terse oar
Because they’d just BS a reason
limpid agate
You want resurrect to canonically bring back the dead?
pine slate
Do we know why Moira has 2 eye colors? 
peak escarp
heterochromia
pine slate
I just noticed it
limpid agate
Or even Spirit Healers in WoW
terse oar
It’s just natural
cerulean ice
genetics
pliant sparrow
DNA being weird
pine slate
I thought she experimented or smth
terse oar
She might’ve, but it’s most likely natural
peak escarp
cerulean ice
considering she is a geneticist (or whatever) she can change her appearance in the way she wants
pliant sparrow
Heterochromia isn't as rare in irish people iirc
limpid agate
It's suggested she had it since she was a child
cerulean ice
thats my idea
peak escarp
I suspect her heterochromia might have sparked her interest in genetics as a child
pliant sparrow
But irish people and melanin have a weird relationship
pine slate
Also what if its a symbol like duality, one hand gives, the other takes away
pliant sparrow
What are her eye colours
terse oar
That could be nice symbolism
pliant sparrow
Blue and green?
terse oar
They’re red and blue(?)
cerulean ice
moira has been a character of duality
Also what if its a symbol like duality, one hand gives, the other takes away
@pine slate thats literally her biotic grasp
terse oar
Overwatch has a lot of subtle nods to character personality
cerulean ice
and that
pine slate
Yes but what a nice symbolism
pliant sparrow
All part of the charm
peak escarp
yes that's a good one
candid juniper
I’ve watched it like 5 times
cerulean ice
would you guys perceive moira to be evil? or just neutral
terse oar
She’s most likely just part of Talon since they won’t hold back her experimentation
pliant sparrow
Without morality
terse oar
She’s not evil, just not cautious
pliant sparrow
She cares about research and that's about it
terse oar
It’s like Sombra
cosmic crest
I think Moira might have ASPD.
She seems to completely lack empathy.
terse oar
She’s just using Talon (but to a lesser degree)
pliant sparrow
No one in overwatch is inherently evil
cerulean ice
i dont think she really cares about the ideals of talon, just as long as she could science
cosmic crest
"Evil" is somewhat of a subjective term.
cerulean ice
that depends
cosmic crest
I think the families of the many people killed by Talon would consider them quite evil.
terse oar
Reapers just kinda the bad guy
peak escarp
evil is subjective in that every person will define it differently
pliant sparrow
Reaper still falls into a grey area
terse oar
We don’t know why, he just kill people
iron plume
Moira isn't "saturday morning cartoon villain" evil but I'd argue she's decidedly evil in real world terms
terse oar
He’s not completely painted
peak escarp
it's not like fictional worlds where evil is a concrete, tangible thing
pliant sparrow
Usually with skull armour and some ancient tome
pliant sparrow
Manipulation usually has lies in it
cosmic crest
I think that's his literal backstory.
terse oar
He might also just feel obligated because, you know, they busted him out of a government facility
I wonder why Sanjay is in Talon
limpid agate
Probably $$$$$$$
cosmic crest
He is one of my most anticipated characters.
terse oar
Maybe he’ll be the shield support Sym never was
Although I am intrigued if Symmetra will side with Overwatch once she knows Sanjay is part of Talon
cosmic crest
They should definitely start populating the different factions with more heroes to give them more presence.
Most of them have just one currently.
I would like it if every faction had one hero for every role, but it will probably be a long time before we see that.
terse oar
Who could join from Helix
cosmic crest
Probably not any of the existing characters.
cosmic crest
They are capable of making new characters that we haven't seen yet.
cerulean ice
op
peak escarp
Anubis doesn't have a body - it's just a program
limpid agate
Anubis would be interesting as a hero possessing machines. Gives an excuse for a fast respawn hero line Techies or Murky
terse oar
Anubis can have a body, although not it’s own
Is it even confirmed if Athena is a god program? She was made by Winston, but we don’t know the qualifications of one
cerulean ice
i dont see any leads to her being one
terse oar
God programs in general have almost no lore
I highly doubt Liao made them, even if she made omnics
peak escarp
"god programs" aren't as all powerful as the community thinks
Anubis might even be the only one
peak escarp
Athena
cerulean ice
athena?
peak escarp
the program in Winston's computer that he talks to
cerulean ice
where was it said that its made by dr liao?
cerulean ice
🤔
worthy rose
what is everybody talking about?
cerulean ice
thats probably outdated
its probably just me because im wikia dependent
echo was athena
in design
terse oar
Liao made the prototype, and it can be theorized that Winston finished it
terse oar
Echo was originally theorized to be Athena as a hero, but that did not come to pass
peak escarp
Echo was not Athena
they put Athena's logo on Echo to fill space
Echo was originally called Iris
terse oar
I have a theory that Echo was meant to be seen a religious figure (in other terms, “Robot Jesus”) as she could be the “Iris” omnics look up to
Granted, we don’t know how secretive she was kept, seeing as Ashe didn’t know what it was
cerulean ice
i believe iris is just the name for their group or something
they are just monks who want peace
terse oar
Their group is the Shambalis (probably misspelled it)
cerulean ice
yes
peak escarp
you got it right
terse oar
Their religion is the idea that omnics have just as much humanity and life as humans
cerulean ice
they didnt believe in a god
terse oar
They want unity, and Echo was meant by Liao to make the world a better place (gameplay wise, as an assassin lol)
Most likely through human/omnic relations
peak escarp
Echo is able to copy and learn things, to be able to fill any role as needed
in a shooter game that means shooting people
terse oar
Just like a human can as they grow, further strengthening the idea she was meant to show people how omnics have life
peak escarp
technically she should be all roles, but the game doesn't work that way
cerulean ice
well she can for 15 seconds
worthy rose
do you think echos ultimate is part of her code, whenever she copies somebody she learns and adapts to be a better person or omnic and leaves the bad charecter traits behind, because she sais personality duplication complete after she finished her ult?
pliant sparrow
Is her ult canon?
cerulean ice
thats a gameplay mechanic
terse oar
We don’t know for sure
terse oar
My guess is it’s like picking up mannerisms from your friends
pliant sparrow
I'd assume mimicking weaponry is more likely than mimicking characters
terse oar
Because she was meant to be more human than other omnics
cosmic crest
I could be wrong about this, but I believe Echo is and example of a bottom up AI. She started off small and unintelligent but was able to grow and learn by observing her environment. This is in opposition to the other omnics which had intelligence from their creation, making them top down AI.
cerulean ice
i mean
terse oar
We just know that she has Liao’s traits (as to be expected)
cerulean ice
thats what ai's are
pliant sparrow
Isn't that how intelligent AI works
worthy rose
whenever she used her ult she learns something new
terse oar
Echo is meant to be extremely important to the lore
worthy rose
in ow 2 they will probobly toch on that
terse oar
Again, my theory, that she’s meant to be the unifying figure between humans and omnics
worthy rose
I think that that is a good theory
cerulean ice
thats a gameplay mechanic
terse oar
We don’t know if like 3/4 of the abilities are canon lol
worthy rose
what is canon im dumb
pliant sparrow
Confirmed in the lore
worthy rose
oh ok
terse oar
what is canon im dumb
@worthy rose true in the story (for example, Mercy can probably not Rez people irl)
Therefore it’s not canon
cosmic crest
I see no reason why Echo's duplicate ability wouldn't be cannon. It's her signature ability and her name sake, saying she doesn't have it would be like saying Tracer can't blink or recall. It's also probably the most interesting thing about her lore wise in my opinion.
terse oar
I think it’s canon, but not in the way portrayed in gameplay
pliant sparrow
^
terse oar
I don’t think her “duplicating” will be her turning all blue and then swinging a hammer at people
pliant sparrow
Same way they've done mercy rez
cerulean ice
blizzard desperately wanted her duplication to come in play but conflicted about balance in gameplay
terse oar
Mercy “Rez” in canon is just a burst heal I think
terse oar
Yee
cerulean ice
mei wasnt dead
pliant sparrow
Yeee
cerulean ice
wdym lol
pliant sparrow
It doesn't actually resurrect the dead
terse oar
That’s why I’m saying it’s not canon as portrayed in gameplay
cerulean ice
yes it doesnt
cosmic crest
If anything, Blizzard were probably more worried about how duplicate would effect the gameplay than the lore.
pliant sparrow
Like agate said it's a burst of healing
Abilities don't all work in the lore as they do in the game
cerulean ice
i know its not literally resurrection but it doesnt indicate that
she just healed mei
pliant sparrow
?
terse oar
Her pose and quite kind of implied that, but I see your point
@pliant sparrow what he’s saying is that it’s not really Rez since it doesn’t really share any features except for the quote and pose
It’s just healing
terse oar
👁👄👁
peak escarp
"it doesn't share any features of Rez except the features of Rez"
peak escarp
even in the game Rez is just healing - it's the only healing that works when you've gone below 0
terse oar
^
terse oar
F
cerulean ice
even in the game Rez is just healing - it's the only healing that works when you've gone below 0
@peak escarp its technically healing but thats not how it works
doesnt have relation to burst of heal
pliant sparrow
?
terse oar
That’s just what it appears like in the cinematic
peak escarp
it's like McCree using Deadeye in Reunion
terse oar
It looks like burst healing
peak escarp
everything is there
pliant sparrow
Even the tumbleweed
terse oar
Abilities are used in the shorts, but they’re changed for cinematic/realistic reasons
terse oar
Take as long of a post as you need 🙂
cosmic crest
I'm getting really sick of this discussion ngl.
cerulean ice
you may have the patience but its unnecessary
terse oar
Changing topic then...
worthy rose
do you think there will ever be a meta that comes from the lore, like a tolon meta or an overewatch meta, or hopefully if we get new charecters, a vishcar meta?
prob not
but
cosmic crest
What do you mean?
cerulean ice
;lore meta
cosmic crest
That would never happen.
cerulean ice
big doubt
worthy rose
your prob right
cosmic crest
No because that meta exists because those heroes synergise well together.
It has nothing to do with the lore even if by coincidence the characters are linked.
terse oar
Storm Rising
cerulean ice
pvp meta
worthy rose
but arent groups like talon and stuff supposed to work together and therefore have abilities that work together in pvp
cerulean ice
not necessarily?
cosmic crest
@worthy rose No
cerulean ice
theres no need for them to synergize just because theyre in the same faction
cosmic crest
That kind of design mentality would only strain the developers creativity.
terse oar
I wonder if Dva will be in the story
worthy rose
do you think that in the realease of ow 2 more meka charecters will come
terse oar
Like maybe you go to the MEKA Base to fight the omnics that attack Korea (I can’t spell it lol)
Maybe one
cerulean ice
speaking of meka, we maybe getting another meka character
terse oar
It’s no problem
worthy rose
do you think a meka charecter might be a dps or maybe even a healer somehow???
limpid agate
Zenyatta is also purely flying
do you think a meka charecter might be a dps or maybe even a healer somehow???
DPS or Healer? No.
spring jasper
no
cosmic crest
I mean, he hovers.
hushed fiber
DPS or Healer? No.
@limpid agate Maybe healer ? DPS would be complicated but if they put another mecha, if it's a tank it will have same abilities as D.Va
limpid agate
No.
spring jasper
ze is purely flying
iron plume
Even the thinnest meka is real fuckin big
limpid agate
We have:
- D.Mon - Brig 2.
- Casino - F1 Pilot, supposed to be speedy
- King - Mech is based on artillery cannons
- Overlord - Mech has a huge minigun on the front.
iron plume
And another tank mech would have different abilities
weary owl
I could not at all see any of the mechs being a dps or healer
Unless you say that there mechs become the ultimates and that they are permantly baby form
spring solar
from gameplay perspective i just dont think theyd do another meka
weary owl
Even so it wouldnt make any sense what would their abilites be they are in tight suits just like dva
cosmic crest
I think they should add another meka tank, and they probably will at some point.
weary owl
That would be cool considering dva is an offtank maybe one of them could be a main tank
cosmic crest
I wouldn't mind if they re-used the eject mechanic, but I think for Blizzard's own sake they probably shouldn't. Eject is one of the most challenging things for them to program around.
weary owl
Wouldnt they bassically just take it from dva?
I mean dva would still have it but they already have the coding for the eject feature
cosmic crest
I don't know if that's how it works.
limpid agate
If you make it the exact same passive
It would take some effort but is still doable
cosmic crest
They could make the ultimate different. Like maybe the mech is fired like a missile, or fires a giant laser and then overloads.
weary owl
They would just have to take the Eject coding i mean they could litterally just go take dvas mech in total but give it a new model and some new abilities and what not but just keeping the ejecting feature
cosmic crest
From there it's the same as D.va except they could give the other meka heroes a different out of mech weapon, like an smg or a shotgun.
terse oar
I don’t think it’d be good to have another MEKA
People get a new one, they’re gonna ask for the others
limpid agate
If you want just 1
Casino would be the best for story reasons
Because there is some suggestion that he has ties to Maximillien
worthy rose
maybe they realease a bunch of mekas on the realease of ow 2
spring solar
wonder if any of these maps will get tossed in
i assume berlin became eichenwalde
limpid agate
King's Row | Hanamura | Eichenwalde | Volskaya Industries
Temple of Anubis | X | X | X
Unnamed India Map | X | Numbani | X
One of those maps was revealed in the Overwatch 2 trailer
The Unnamed India Map
arctic loom
also im saw on youtube about a survey of ow 2
spring solar
wonder if san joaquin just became route 66
arctic loom
but is probably
fringe blade
The Amazon would actually be quite a cool concept
spring solar
is in cali
arctic loom
not real right?
fringe blade
Like a jungle-themed map
arctic loom
a survey about versions of game and custom skins
spring solar
probably not real
arctic loom
yeah expected
fringe blade
Now that I think about it, some sort of rainforest-themed map would be really sick
Like a run-down lab in the Amazon Forest or something
limpid agate
It is a real survey @arctic loom
arctic loom
oh it is?
arctic loom
oh
spring solar
any actual underwater section will probably be lame af
terse oar
I mean just set underwater
terse oar
They said they’d never do swimming since they’d have to make animations and stuff
But I just want a map that takes place underwater
limpid agate
Yeah Id think thats cool too
terse oar
I feel like Haiti will be a new map
Since Soujourn got Toronto, Mauga and Baptiste will get Haiti
limpid agate
Maybe further down the line, but not at launch. The end of WYLB made it sound like Baptiste is leaving Haiti to go find Mercy
Whereas we might meet Sojourn in Toronto in the story
cosmic crest
Ana
terse oar
Ana is Anubis
cosmic crest
I guess Anubis counts now.
terse oar
Mercy
cosmic crest
Before Bastet it didn't really.
terse oar
Moira
terse oar
Doomfist is Numbani
terse oar
Reapers technically from Hollywood, but I don’t think that’s very evident, so he might get one
Talon base
cosmic crest
I don't think he's from Hollywood specifically.
terse oar
I think it is
cosmic crest
He's from California though.
terse oar
He had a map interaction “it’s not the same without the smog in the air”
cosmic crest
Even if he is, there is no correlation in the lore.
cosmic crest
I would like to see a moodier looking map so a Talon base would be cool.
spring solar
wym modifier
cosmic crest
I had an idea for a 2 CP map that's set inside a Talon airship.
terse oar
Darker @spring solar
Less color
I had an idea for a 2 CP map that's set inside a Talon airship.
@cosmic crest that’d be cool, and would make sense how Talon can be at so many places
Depending on how the OW2 story goes, what if we get Watchpoint: Switzerland?
cosmic crest
We should get that at some point, it's an important location that we haven't seen yet.
terse oar
It was destroyed, so we won’t get it unless the story involves OW official reformation
It’s cliche, but that’ll probably happen
cosmic crest
That doesn't mean it can't be a map.
It would be cool to see a ruined facility and it would help differentiate it form Gibraltar.
terse oar
True
But it was like completely destroyed
There are no ruins or structures, just rubble
cosmic crest
I don't know if that's true.
terse oar
It’s in S.76 origin trailer
cosmic crest
I remember just hearing that there was an explosion.
That doesn't prove that the whole place was destroyed.
It was their main headquarters, it was probably a massive facility.
cosmic crest
Looks like just a portion of it to me.
spring solar
i just wonder what the 'bad guy lair' maps gonna be