maybe not fully normal
#lore-discussion
hard yoke
worthy rose
I mean technically they can brainwash her just like talon did
hard yoke
ye
fringe blade
Like I have said before, I don't think this is a good direction for Widow's story
worthy rose
How did she turn blue?
fringe blade
Her heart rate was slowed
hard yoke
haha
worthy rose
Had to make that joke
hard yoke
understandable
worthy rose
Anyways if they were to re-brainwash her, would they make her heart rate normal
Or would they keep it the same
peak escarp
she was essentially tortured until she felt no emotion, and only responded positively to killing
hard yoke
Anyways if they were to re-brainwash her, would they make her heart rate normal
@worthy rose maaaybe not, cause if they were to recondition her into a agent of overwatch, they would still (most likely) make her a assassin, and a lower heart rate would make a better assassin
fringe blade
They broke her
peak escarp
A Clockwork Orange shows someone being conditioned to be physically sick at the thought of violence
so like that
fringe blade
Mentally and emotionally
hard yoke
but its unlikely that they would be able to recondition her
fringe blade
They basically broke her and built her back up
hard yoke
pretty sad story tbh
fringe blade
Yea
peak escarp
I'd find a clip of the scene for you, but it's pretty brutal
fringe blade
Getting tortured into becoming an assassin, killing your own husband and only finding thrill in murder must suck
hot heart
Imagine Amelie returned, but instead of joining OW, she goes hunting Talon agents. Blizzard introduce new Talon hero normaly and in the middle of the video he/she got headshoted by a sniper
Video ends
hot heart
Or play quote at the end of the video in black screen like
The enemy of Amelie Lacroix will be eliminated
hard yoke
limpid agate
That wouldn't be a good progression.
Widowmaker as Widowmaker was fine, and Amelie seems to have accepted who she is now.
Its also off to say "amelie returned"
Amelie is Widowmaker
fringe blade
The most radical thing that I can imagine happening would be Widow leaving Talon/going rogue and becoming some sort of contract killer/assassin
fringe blade
That would be a very boring end (story-wise) for Max
hot heart
Imagine Moira turn her into a giant spider
limpid agate
!!shitposting @hot heart
twilit nacelleBOT
@hot heart Shitposting will result in a loss of access.
hot heart
pliant sparrow
No new lore 
limpid agate
The most recent lore drop was the Hero of Numbani
Which came out in June, only 3 months ago.
We've gone longer with nothing new before.
Most recently, the time between Valkyrie and Echo was 4 months
Sigma to Zero Hour was also just over 3 months
restive iris
and zen lore was announced about one year ago
nothing.... not even a fucking archives skin
i need that juicy lore
swift mason
Unfortunately, blizzard’s concept on when ‘soon ‘ will be is far later than we expect
hot heart
I hate "soon"
cerulean ice
idk what archives skin you would give to zen lmao
cerulean ice
maybe a bigger robe?
hard yoke
anyone else wants another one of those animated shorts instead of these comic style hero introductions?
last one we got was Overwatch 2’s animated short
lament prawn
one is not a replacement for the other
and the animated shorts take a lot of work, next one we'll get is probably gonna be at blizzcon
hot heart
Money
Blizzard have money but
They dont throw it like Riot
Imma go read some OW comics
hard yoke
Imma go read some OW comics
wait where can i read those?
lament prawn
lament prawn
yw
hard yoke
is there an order in which i have to read it oooorrr...
lament prawn
i guess i would read them in order of release? they're numbered on the top left of their icons
hard yoke
ooo ok thanks man
swift mason
Speaking of comics, I just re-read the comic 'searching' and I noticed in one of the panels Efi and Orisa, and im thinking the events of searching also take place in the events of Hero of numbani
gritty remnant
terse oar
Also read Ana and Baptiste’s short stories if you can
There’s a book around Orisa as well
obtuse mountain
llorp
worthy rose
gwadel, where did you get that, is it from fans, or is it in game, because if so how do you activate it
past zinc
We should make a chart that shows all the characters connections to one another
valid terrace
There just may be one already 
hushed fiber
it probably exists
peak escarp
done
past zinc
Discord>google confirmed
valid terrace
Eh
peak escarp
and considering I'm the one who made it, you should let me post it
valid terrace
I posted before you said anything I wasn’t sure if you were in chat 
peak escarp
I'm always in the chat (except when I'm at work)
valid terrace
True
valid terrace
I feel that sorry
past zinc
It’s really well put together but I think bob and Mcree are friends based on the short
hushed fiber
it's complicated to read it xD
valid terrace
Welcome to the overwatch lore lmao
peak escarp
Atlas News
there's another reporter mentioned in Hero of Numbani, but I can't add her since she doesn't have an image
peak escarp
it's the power company that runs the power station that's at the end of the Dorado map
past zinc
Isn’t Mcree a former member of overwatch?
peak escarp
Sombra had a beef with their CEO and basically leaked his corporate emails to bring him down
he has friends in government so he was able to get exonerated
hushed jetty
mccree is marked as a former member of blackwatch. blackwatch was part of overwatch when it existed
peak escarp
McCree is former Blackwatch
past zinc
I know that but then why did he Winston call him when he called the other members
hushed fiber
And what's the corp on the bottom right ?
With the omnic we saw at the end of Storm rising
hushed fiber
I didn't know their logo
grand wedge
gwadel, where did you get that, is it from fans, or is it in game, because if so how do you activate it
@worthy rose it's in the game files - I don't know if it's triggered while playing on Hollywood or not (Glitchbot is in the car you escort and he talks a LOT )
worthy rose
oh ok now it makes sence, yeah he does talk a lot thx for explaining @grand wedge
terse oar
McCree was part of blackwatch, which was part of Overwatch
It’s implied that he was also friendly to Echo as he was the one who woke her up in “Reunion”
peak escarp
not just implied, Echo's bio confirms it
terse oar
Oh really, what does it say?
peak escarp
After thousands of hours in the scientist’s presence, much of Liao’s behaviors (including her speech), were adopted by the Echo robot. This secret that was known by very few, including Blackwatch agent Jesse McCree, who had, at times, been assigned to guard the scientist
well, I guess that doesn't confirm that they are friends
but it does confirm they knew each other
and she does greet him as a friend in Reunion
terse oar
Echo probably spent a lot of time with McCree (at least in her prototype phases)
It’d make sense that they were close then
I assume McCree refused to recall because he didn’t think he’d be useful, or that it’d fall apart
My guess is he’ll join the recall when the group travels to Route 66 (as shown in the gameplay trailer)
worthy rose
oh yeah
peak escarp
McCree has other business
worthy rose
imagine if in ow 2....
terse oar
I wonder how Hammond will play into the story...
worthy rose
you start singleplayer, with only 1 player, and only a couple ofcharecters, but as you travel across the world, you recruit more charecters and more players get added to the missions
peak escarp
the story missions will be 4-player missions, like Archives and Junkenstein
worthy rose
oh ok
terse oar
That is an interesting point though
Will there be missions with more than 4 heroes to choose from 
peak escarp
possibly
worthy rose
but what if at the beggining there were only 4 players to choose, like tracer, and 3 other charecters, but the more you played and the further you got, the more choice you get
peak escarp
they talked about having more than 4 to pick from for missions
terse oar
Makes sense
peak escarp
like the Rio mission at Blizzcon was Lucio, Mei, Tracer, Winston, but Genji, Brigitte, Mercy and Reinhardt were also there in the cutscene
terse oar
We don’t even know if Rio is the first mission
peak escarp
so what if you could pick from all 8 of them
that would add a lot of replayablity to the game
terse oar
Brig, Mercy, and Winston went to help the civilians I think
hushed jetty
i was thinking about if some missions allowed 6 per team
terse oar
That’d be cool
worthy rose
yeah
hushed jetty
it might get a little wonky but it would be cool
worthy rose
what if there was *almost an ulimited amount of players per team, but the more players you added the harder the enemies became.
Notice I said almost
peak escarp
I don't think that would work
terse oar
That probably wouldn’t work in OW specifically
worthy rose
yeah ur probobly right now that I think of it
peak escarp
the engine can't handle that many players
terse oar
That’d be so chaotic
worthy rose
yeah your right
worthy rose
how many new heros are going to be realeaed again ??
terse oar
It’s tentative, but most people are speculating around 6
peak escarp
probably around 5-6
worthy rose
that sounds right
worthy rose
I know blizzcon will be held in the first quarter of 2021, but do you think after that there will be the annual blizzcon on november 2???
there will probobly be a mix of both
terse oar
Assuming this pandemic goes away, probably
worthy rose
I hope so, I dont want to imagine there still being a pandemic then, more than a year, oh god
terse oar
Pandemics of the past have lasted 2-3 years, but there have been large medical advancements
worthy rose
yeah
terse oar
This virus doesn’t seem as bad as those in the past either
pliant sparrow
Probably because the medical facility's and governments response have been improved greatly
worthy rose
i hope there is going to be some talon missions :>
i wanna see some interactions between the team
cosmic crest
Why would you not want Talon missions?
terse oar
I think there’s going to be some missions where it will Switch to Talons side of the story
Or they’ll have that as paid DLC
cosmic crest
I don't think they are going to do paid DLC
dim horizon
I wouldn't be surprised if story updates become a regular post-release akin to heroes and maps. We know they previously considered 40 to be the number of heroes they wouldn't exceed. Obviously that might change with OW2, but it's also possible that instead of a new hero every four months we get an additional story 'chapter' in some of the same release slots.
peak escarp
40? I heard people say 50
dim horizon
The 40 figure is one from at least a couple of years ago, I believe - highly likely that's changed, especially with a whole sequel now in development.
fringe blade
DLCs isn't really Blizzard's style
If they do release DLCs, they usually quite exponential
But I do hope that we get missions from different perspectives than Overwatch
past zinc
Based on reunion I think That the way Mcree talks to Bob he and Bob are friends
peak escarp
they probably were at one point
past zinc
I know but the way he tips bobs hat and says no hard feelings it feels like the two of them still are freinds that may seem like Mcrees personality but it feels like it means something just a small theory
limpid agate
DLCs isn't really Blizzard's style
Sure it is
young knoll
aren't most branded as expansions?
limpid agate
That's semantics
young knoll
true enough
limpid agate
They're kinda known for expanding on existing games multiple times
And that list is missing 2
And its not just Warcraft
Even if it is literally Downloadable Content, they don't market it as DLC.
Paid post-launch content is Blizzard's MO
Nearly every game they've made has had it
If anything, Overwatch is the odd one out
At least until Overwatch 2
peak escarp
Expansions were the norm before DLC became a thing
fringe blade
That's what I mean
They are known for expansions
not really DLCs
in the traditional sense
limpid agate
They're the same thing
The only difference is, one is downloadable and one was a second CD you had to install
limpid agate
In the modern age, all expansion packs are DLC.
Because most games are downloadable
Including overwatch
It's a semantic argument not worth making.
fringe blade
I might be using the wrong terminology then
All the things you listed were major expansions
to the game
They weren't skin packs or a couple of additional side-missions which are common today
They majorly changed the game
fringe blade
I just mean that DLC cosmetics aren't largely Blizzard's thing, that's all
fringe blade
Anyways, I think that minor DLC for paid games is kinda dumb
It just doesn't feel right to me, idk
Even though that seems to be the trend in the game world nowadays
limpid agate
peak escarp
I feel the opposite - cosmetic/inconsequential DLC is the kind I like
peak escarp
it's when gameplay is locked behind paywalls or the game is pay-to-win that it really sucks
limpid agate
Also this
Like... I don't know what you mean by its not Blizzard's style
When literally every single one of their games other than Overwatch does it
And they've been doing it since the 90s
fringe blade
The Rise of the Necromancer is a fairly large expansion, but that's besides the point
Yea, you're right
limpid agate
The fact that Overwatch is literally just eSports cosmetics and lootboxes is astounding
fringe blade
The lootboxes in OW are a pretty killer business as far as I can tell
They rake in a ton of money
There have been reports all the way back in 2019 that lootbox sales crossed over a billion dollars
Which is kinda crazy ngl
peak escarp
Overwatch's lootboxes are the most harmless kind, but they get lumped in with all the bad ones
fringe blade
I really like that earning lootboxes is actually fairly easy
They aren't really locked behind some sort of daily mission system or something
peak escarp
on the one hand, I like that you can get almost all the cosmetics in the game just by playing a lot
but on the other, I'm at such a high level that I actually do have everything, so lootboxes are meaningless outside of events
fringe blade
Yea, it seems to be a very common complaint amongst the community that they have nothing to spend their credits on
I honestly wish that they kept some skins solely to the lootboxes
Unpurchaseable using credits, y'know?
peak escarp
this is why I'm in favor of a battlepass - it would give me something to work towards every week, like the challenges do
and I do buy lootboxes during events, so a paid battlepass doesn't bother me
fringe blade
I wouldn't mind a battlepass
Honestly, its kinda crazy that Overwatch still makes money to this day
I suppose the OWL is still popular enough to support it
valid terrace
If you think about it, the new weekly model for events is just an extremely basic battle pass
valid terrace
I agree
I’ve always enjoyed chasing the difficult achievements in events before they become time locked
Which hasn’t happened in awhile due to ow2 production
fringe blade
ah
battle-pass exclusive cosmetics would be cool tho
Jeff himself has said that he thinks that the lootboxes will play a lesser role in OW2 and that he thinks Battle-Passes are a cool idea
so i can honestly imagine OW2 having a battle-pass at some point
peak escarp
it would be like the gold weapons, but a lot more accessible to people who hate comp
peak escarp
to bring this back to the topic of lore, the battle passes could have themes, related to the lore
or have comics/shorts/etc. released along side them
fringe blade
That would be quite nice
peak escarp
for example, a battle pass that is a tie-in to a comic could feature skins/sprays/voice lines from that comic
terse oar
There was a survey for OW2 that said there were skin bundles or something like that
fringe blade
Honestly, there are a lot of potential cosmetic modifications that Blizzard can add that are currently not in the game
So there shouldnt be any problems filling a battle-pass with content
peak escarp
or have challenges relating to what happens in the comic (if it's a comic featuring certain heroes fighting Null Sector, have the challenges for the week involve just those heroes, e.g. get 20 eliminations with Tracer, or block 5000 damage as Winston)
terse oar
Do you guys think Blizzard would do a paid or free battle pass
peak escarp
maybe both
fringe blade
I wouldnt mind either
terse oar
Maybe they’d have a paid one with the OWL exclusive skins
peak escarp
a free track with a few items, and a paid track with more items
fringe blade
I honestly really don't like when that happens in other battle passes
idk why
just something about it doesn't feel right
terse oar
Not really on topic, but do you have Baptiste’s “Window of Opportunity” @arctic loom
You’re talking about achievements, so...
charred karma
what is that?
terse oar
The hardest achievement in the game
fringe blade
Guys
arctic loom
im dont have none of both bap achievements
terse oar
I know, I’m sorry :/
arctic loom
ok anyway
terse oar
But anyway, do you think it’d be a limited-time battle pass?
Or like one for every 100 levels?
fringe blade
We should honestly really get back to lore
terse oar
Do you think all the new heroes will be from the lore, or new
I could see them just using the existing characters
fringe blade
Some from lore, some new
limpid agate
Do you think all the new heroes will be from the lore, or new
Based on some descriptions we have from an interviewer that got to see some silhouettes
We will probably see new heroes that are new characters
fringe blade
I honestly don't know how trustworthy that silhouette story was
I want to believe it, the described silhouettes look quite cool
But it just seems a little iffy
peak escarp
how is it iffy?
fringe blade
I just don't really trust leaks from a single person
I know he's an editor for Game Informer, but still
But like I said, I hope the silhouettes are true
peak escarp
it's not a leak
fringe blade
From what he described, the heroes look quite interesting
peak escarp
it was part of the OW2 press coverage
fringe blade
Wasn't the reporter the only one who saw it?
limpid agate
No. Just the only one who wrote about it
fringe blade
I honestly don't really know much about the whole story, but the editor's words seem to be related to him only
spring solar
any new hero predictions from already existing lore characters?
junker queen seems like a high chance
fringe blade
However, Game Informer also had a video with Jeff during the same period of time, so I don't really know what to think
We know Sojourn is coming
Junker Queen is a possibility
limpid agate
any new hero predictions from already existing lore characters?
@spring solar In general, or for OW2 launch?
spring solar
either or
limpid agate
In general, Junkerqueen and Mauga are more or less guaranteed
For launch? I expect neither.
The only characters we have met that I think have a chance for launch are Sanjay Korpal (if they make Vishkar a big deal in the story) and the Unnamed Omnic from the end of Storm Rising.
fringe blade
Sanjay would be cool, but I can see him being an antagonist for the storyline
terse oar
I think Maximillian would be a cool hero, but he doesn’t seem the fighting type
Maybe he could run a shop on the menu
spring solar
im down w sanjay - also echo is proof that old ass concept designs still have a good chance to get added in so spider girl would be cool to see
limpid agate
I think Recluse was most likely reworked into Junker Queen
spring solar
spring solar
a i c
terse oar
Yo, hazmat suit guy 
spring solar
cool name
limpid agate
That's just my speculation
We know Junkerqueen is a gladitorial mech champion
So that kind of mech feels very Junker
spring solar
mama hong would be cool - ow needs more non traditionally attractive females
fringe blade
Considering how popular Junker Queen is in the community, I think her release is a must
Mama Hong is too much of a meme to become a hero
terse oar
What role would Junker Queen be? I’ve actually seen it be pretty split
limpid agate
When asked if she will be a hero, the devs have said they have big plans.
limpid agate
And Mauga was confirmed to be back on the board after Sigma replaced him
We know Junkerqueen is a gladitorial mech champion
Unless they make the mech her ult, she will most likely be a tank
spring solar
if jq is recluse 2.0 og concept art showed recluse w laser mouth and spider minions
terse oar
I think Mauga would be a tank with a rage mechanic
terse oar
I don’t care what new heroes we get, I just want Baptiste to have more then 2 interactions
cerulean ice
pretty sure theyre gonna make more tanks and supports than dps for the upcoming heroes
fringe blade
Sojourn is likely gonna be DPS
spring solar
theyll probably even it out and release an equal number to please everyone
spring solar
im not saying add x amount of tanks and supports to even the entire roster
fringe blade
If we are to believe the Game Informer editor, one of the upcoming characters is going to be some kind of wizard/voodoo character
Quite exciting
spring solar
im saying an even amount of new tanks supports and dps
fringe blade
And a character with a pet fox/fennec of some kind
But I am not sure if people are gonna like killing an animal
spring solar
weve been doing that
cerulean ice
no we enjoy killing hammond
limpid agate
That's not exactly a correct assement of the Game Informer post
limpid agate
According to the editor, one of the upcoming characters has a silhouette that looks like a wizard/voodoo character
terse oar
There was an old hero concept of a dog support that would fetch health packs
cerulean ice
idk wizards or voodos in this game is kinda out of theme
twilit nacelleBOT
For more information about the game, please refer to the wiki: https://overwatch.gamepedia.com/Null_Sector
limpid agate
terse oar
A builder support would be neat
fringe blade
Yea, I worded myself incorrectly
limpid agate
Heres another
fringe blade
Some sort of short hero with a staff of some kind
terse oar
I wonder who that could be Kappa
limpid agate
No, you didn't word warlock wrong
spring solar
looks like moira lol
cerulean ice
probably not a scientist
terse oar
@spring solar it is lol
spring solar
o i c
terse oar
I love how Moira was teased in “Masquerade” and no one noticed
limpid agate
We did
terse oar
Really? I guess the big OW channels didn’t
fringe blade
I wonder why they didn't tease Junker Queen instead of Sojourn
I guess it builds more hype?
terse oar
I guess because everyone knows Soujour through the Archives
Some people don’t know about the Junker Queen unless you look around Junkertown
fringe blade
Junker Queen is more popular overall though
limpid agate
Who are you going to announce:
- Someone who is a main character in your advertised campaign
- A character that might not even be in the story.
spring solar
sojourn is a good character to show 'look a new character' while saving more exciting characters for future marketing options
terse oar
Soujourn had what-looked-like a flamethrower on her arm
limpid agate
THey were pushing the campiagn.
terse oar
That’s pretty cool
limpid agate
The campaign was the big thing they were trying to show off
fringe blade
I suppose that's one way of looking at it
limpid agate
And Sojourn is a main character in it
Junkerqueen, even if she were a launch character, will probably not even make a cameo in the campaign
terse oar
Depends how they do the campaign I guess
spring solar
doomfist was like the most hyped character prior to release, now arguably its junker queen
limpid agate
Not all heroes are in the campaign
They already basically confirmed Junkrat has no interest in it
terse oar
@spring solar lol, the Orisa teasers and everyone yelling “It’s Doomfist”
spring solar
not even df had hype since day 1 cuz of ow trailer
fringe blade
I hope that we get side story missions
terse oar
We’ll probably get like 1 side mission for the other plots happening maybe
fringe blade
Some kind of side stories set in the past would be quite cool
limpid agate
That is what post-launch content is for
terse oar
@fringe blade they’re probably saving that for Archives if they keep it
fringe blade
I don't really know why they'd keep Archives
spring solar
i honestly hope ow 2 revamps seasonal events
they got stale minus archives after the first year
terse oar
They’ll have more resources to focus on it, so probably
limpid agate
They said that not all events will return
And that they want to make new events
So Archives/Anniversary are most likely dead
cerulean ice
the game will focus more on the story
spring solar
thats good, take the league of legends route and create new events and just redo the more popular ones
terse oar
Maybe they’ll get rid of every event, and put those skins in a paid, themed battle pass
Restart fresh you know?
cerulean ice
eh
limpid agate
They're not getting rid of every event
peak escarp
I think they said 1/3 will stay the same, 1/3 will get updated, 1/3 will change completely
spring solar
like the 4 events that are safe imo are summer, halloween, winter, and archives - just cuz 3 of them have unique content and one is just too popular to pass up
peak escarp
Archives is likely to go, since the story mode will fill that need
terse oar
I think Halloween and Winter will stay the same
peak escarp
and they've told the story they want to tell with that
spring solar
true, they could just add archives to like a perma option and make space for a new event
fringe blade
Story Mode is a bigger and better Archives
peak escarp
I don't think there's any other "flashback" missions they could add
fringe blade
idk why it would stay
terse oar
Summer and New Year will be changed I think
fringe blade
Did we ever find out what Junkrat's treasure was?
peak escarp
Anniversary will probably stay, assuming the Anniversary date doesn't change
spring solar
cuz ppl would be upset if they never got to play archives again
terse oar
Did we ever find out what Junkrat's treasure was?
@fringe blade no lol
peak escarp
they could just add those missions into the menu somewhere permanently
spring solar
that would be a smart option
fringe blade
That would be a potentially cool idea for a flashback
terse oar
Jeff hinted at it one time saying “is it a treasure, or is it information” or something like that
fringe blade
Starring Junkrat and (Hog?)
terse oar
The best treasure you could ever have
spring solar
roadrat ship ❤️
fringe blade
Like I said, it can be like a short side-story mission
peak escarp
Junkrat's treasure will probably get covered outside of gameplay
fringe blade
Especially if its solo
peak escarp
I doubt there would be solo missions
they've already said the missions will be 4-player
terse oar
Wonder how Hammond will play into the story missions if at all
“Oh wassup, your killing omnics to”
fringe blade
He might not play into them
spring solar
i mean just look at how mcu works - hammond most likely will be a b character and is just there but not doing shit cuz nobody gives a shit
fringe blade
Not all heroes will be in the story missions
terse oar
Imagine if there’s a mission in Horizon
Maybe some scientists lived and send an SOS message and you rescue them
fringe blade
Rescue them from what, exactly
spring solar
monkeys
fringe blade
Considering how many years its been
terse oar
The apes
fringe blade
I don't think so
cerulean ice
horizon is safe
terse oar
Idk, it’s just a thought
spring solar
zombie monkeys
terse oar
Do you think when they rework Horizon, it’d be at a different part of it?
fringe blade
Junkrat's treasure used to be a very popular theme in the community
Considering how big of a deal it is, I don't think they can just skip over it
cerulean ice
theories suggest its a god program
terse oar
If Junker Queen does get in, it’d probably be referenced in an interaction
cerulean ice
i think it controls omnics or something
cerulean ice
i am leaning more into the god program thing
terse oar
JQ: “where’d you hide the treasure, rat?
Junkrat: “Like I’d tell you...”
fringe blade
There was a theory which stated that Junkrat lost an eye and the treasure he found was another eye, and that the eye was actually a way to control omnics or somethin'
They brought up some pieces of evidence or thoughts, but the idea kinda intrigued me ngl
spring solar
imo safe story predicition is fight omnics first only to find out talon was behind it all - ow 2 press kit shows shit ton of evil omnics + ow 2 talon concept art for heavy assault, sniper, and trooper
simple story and ties almost everything together
fringe blade
I wouldn't go as far as guess the overall story arch, but we know that Talon and Null Sector will play a large role in the story
spring solar
i mean one can assume - ow lore hasnt been anything too complex with the overall story
and each character story is pretty standard and cliche
'taking control of different sets of heroes as they fight to defend the world from Null Sector, uncover the motives behind the omnic attacks, and confront rising new threats around the globe' seems like a 3 act story structure - omnics/null sector the obvious set up, go into talon for the confrontation, and conclude w the big bad behind it all
if monte carlo part of the pve most likely gonna be vs talon too
terse oar
Probably gonna involve getting info out of Maximillian again
spring solar
probably
terse oar
Still intrigued by that interaction between doom and Maximillian
In the OW2 gameplay trailer
spring solar
from press kit 'defending cities against robot invasions, taking on elite Talon agents, and battling the villainous forces laying siege to the world'
lol maybe its just vs omnics in rio, vs talon in monte carlo, and vs the big bad in toronto
and thats the entire story
terse oar
Wonder if there’s going to be boss fights in the story
terse oar
Not just “target with large health,” but like a 1v4 of a stupid OP AI
spring solar
if they make bosses like junkenstein where its just an overbuffed meat shield, shit wont be fun
terse oar
I mean unique bosses
spring solar
unique bosses would be cool
terse oar
The final boss just gonna he a giant bird...
“I am the leader of Talon! Because I have Talons!”
terse oar
True
spring solar
like at least put trailer robot in
terse oar
Storm Rising omnic could be a boss fight
spring solar
if the big one in the press lineup is biggest as we get thats lame
cerulean ice
if theres no doomfist bossfight im gonna be mad
terse oar
Instantly kill tracer and Genji lol
cerulean ice
was it confirmed anywhere we can fight as talon?
terse oar
If they have flashback missions, what if we get a Talon one of breaking Sigma out of prison?
spring solar
'defending cities against robot invasions, taking on elite Talon agents, and battling the villainous forces laying siege to the world'
theres also talon baddies concept art
wait shit
i misread u
cerulean ice
idk why we have to flashback thru sigma breaking out of prison
especially with the current events
no reason to
limpid agate
Sigma wasn't in prison
terse oar
His facility
cerulean ice
well not in prison but claimed by talon
spring solar
if they do more flashback shit in ow 2 thatd be lame as shit
terse oar
He didn’t have any affiliation prior
peak escarp
he was in a government facility
cerulean ice
sigma is manipulated to be a weapon
limpid agate
We do know why Talon broke him out
peak escarp
for his own protection and the protection of the public
cerulean ice
he has gravity powers
limpid agate
They want him
cerulean ice
so they took him
limpid agate
When Talon discovered De Kuiper's existence, they infiltrated the facility and broke him out, planning to use his brilliance and research to further their plans
terse oar
As much as I’d like to debate, that simple reason is probably why lol
limpid agate
From his bio
peak escarp
I'm more curious to know how they knew where he was, but it was probably just Sombra
cerulean ice
sombra is the spy of talon
terse oar
When he first released, I theorized that Talon caused his accident (probably false now)
cerulean ice
that woman is everywhere
terse oar
Sombra is everywhere and in every espresso machine
cerulean ice
were also getting single player missions, right?
peak escarp
not likely
cerulean ice
hoping
spring solar
doesnt say anywhere
peak escarp
Play an active role in the next chapter of the Overwatch saga through a series of intense four-player missions. Fight back against Null Sector, uncover the motives behind the omnic attacks, and confront a rising wave of new threats.
four-player missions
spring solar
yeah if they had single player theyd probably mention it in the press kit or promotional
peak escarp
Jeff is always emphasising that Overwatch is a team-based game, so even in the story missions it's unlikely they'll drop the team-play aspect
spring solar
realistically v safe to assume gameplay wise is just gonna be super polished archives missions
in length as well cuz theyre meant to be replayable
probably maybe 3-6 missions too
terse oar
3-6 total missions is a definite naw
peak escarp
I would hope there's more than that
terse oar
Granted, we don’t know if it’s a fully-fleshed game length, but there’s definitely more than that
peak escarp
enough to be considered a "full story campaign"
terse oar
Hmmm
spring solar
mind u that closest thing to ow 2 gameplay structure wise is l4d2
l4d2 launched w 4 maps
terse oar
I’d place my bet at around 10 hours
spring solar
they can always add more down the line
terse oar
Don’t know how many missions
terse oar
That’d be even better
cerulean ice
longer the better
terse oar
I’m also quite interested in the hero redesigns
A lot of them seem to make heroes more bulky
cerulean ice
peak escarp
story missions will have a small replayability factor - play through with each hero to get the experience, play through with the same hero a few times to hear all the dialogue
the main replayability will be in hero missions
terse oar
I wonder what Baptiste will look like
cerulean ice
zenyatta redesign 
terse oar
From a lore standpoint, I don’t see how you’d redesign omnics
Although I guess it’d be like plastic surgery
peak escarp
new paint, different clothes
peak escarp
give Zenyatta a sash like the other shambali
cerulean ice
mondatta zenyatta
spring solar
also 'full campaign' is a very deceiving marketing trick - full campaign games can be notoriously short
terse oar
But there’s no way it’d be just 2 hours with 6 maps
That is Blizzard shooting themselves in the foot
spring solar
we know we get 4 maps for sure - 4 missions safe to assume - i honestly dont think theyd put out anymore than 10 at most
cerulean ice
ow2 has been developed before it was announced
spring solar
right but think realistically - ow was never meant to be a story game
peak escarp
there will be 10-15 new maps
peak escarp
and many of those will have story missions
cerulean ice
it wasnt but theyre dedicating to develop the story more
peak escarp
all of them will have hero missions
cerulean ice
and we barely get lore content so ow2 will be big
terse oar
I trust Blizzard
spring solar
new maps are rio monte carlo toronto and gothenburg
cerulean ice
thats only been announced so far
limpid agate
Our last lore drop was only 3 months ago
cerulean ice
there will probably be more
limpid agate
We've gone longer with nothing
peak escarp
Jeff said the number of new maps for OW2 will be similar to the number of maps at launch
spring solar
that was 12
peak escarp
and at launch, each mode had 3 maps
peak escarp
so 3 maps for 5 modes makes 15 maps
cerulean ice
were not rlly sure though
terse oar
For just the core game modes as well
cerulean ice
but hopefully
terse oar
There could be elimination and death match maps
spring solar
15 maps is v optimistic for launch ow 2
peak escarp
I'm just basing it off Jeff Kaplan's own words
terse oar
You have to consider that they’d been working in this for a while before announcement
They stopped giving us big stuff after Storm Rising, so we can make an assumption that a little before than was when they started development
cerulean ice
theyve had the idea for a long time
spring solar
right but ow launched w 12 - optimistic to assume theyd release 15
terse oar
I’m just estimating when they started pouring all their resources into it
peak escarp
OW2 has been in development since 2017, and has been an idea since before launch
terse oar
With a lot of game companies, especially during a pandemic, you just gotta trust them on this
spring solar
its blizzard
terse oar
And?
spring solar
no but based off their track record its optimistic to assume
obviously theres diff developers, but philosophy and idealogy is consistent throughout
cerulean ice
god
terse oar
The only comparison I can think of to this situation is Nintendo (although a hit off topic)
peak escarp
about OW2
peak escarp
basically what I already mentioned - that OW2 will add as many new maps as OW had at launch
worthy rose
OW 2 is most likely going to be OW1 and you have to pay for the story
spring solar
u said similar amount
worthy rose
How many maps did We have at launch?
peak escarp
12
terse oar
Wonder what they’ll be...
young knoll
we know a few already
terse oar
I think we’ll get an India map with Viskhar
worthy rose
Well looks like we’ve already seen 3
peak escarp
4/5?
terse oar
I forget about Gothenburg
worthy rose
So there’s like 8 maps we don’t know of
terse oar
11, assuming each core mode gets 3 maps
Not to mention elimination, death match, or CtF
terse oar
I think a map in India would be cool
cerulean ice
utopea would be a great map
terse oar
We could possible get a map from Singapore as well since Liao originated there, and was where Doomfist was captured
worthy rose
Tokyo would be a great map
terse oar
What if New York was a map
terse oar
How so?
cerulean ice
any place could be a map
spring solar
too many maps in the us already
terse oar
True, I’m just thinking of cool places though
worthy rose
How ab Iceland
peak escarp
@spring solar 11:28
cerulean ice
i think there should be like 2 maps in 1 country
peak escarp
when Jeff starts talking about a public beta, he mentions the maps
terse oar
I want EcoPoint: Galapagos to come to fruition
spring solar
yeah he said full set
fringe blade
I mean, we know 4 maps we are getting for sure
We know that at least 1 will be push
Some sort of underwater base would be kinda sick
spring solar
heres what im thinking tho - since all the content for pvp goes to ow 1 like a shit ton of maps at once is cool, but kinda overwhelming and gonna fuck w comp - im tryna think like how much content is fair for $40 at once (assuming 40/60) - 15 just seems like a lot
fringe blade
they wont lock any of the pvp stuff behind the paywall
peak escarp
"This is something I'm not sure if people have fully grokked yet - Overwatch 2 has a full set of PvP maps, just like the original game had. Like, it's not like we're adding one or two new maps, like, just to support the new mode Push - we are doing all new, brand new PvP maps for Overwatch 2. It kinda will be mindblowing to people when that happens, how different the game is going to be."
fringe blade
Some kind of winter playland kind of map could be cool
spring solar
toronto
spring solar
ur already getting sweden except its more summerry
fringe blade
There are villages like that all over the place
cerulean ice
gothenburg is sweden
fringe blade
I said swedish as an example
peak escarp
we already have winter maps
cerulean ice
sorry im not paying attention to anything im eating
peak escarp
you just have to enable them from the workshop
fringe blade
We are almost def. getting a couple of maps in Asia, right?
peak escarp
winter Hanamura, winter King's Row
spring solar
like w ow story missions i really dont think the story itself is gonna be more than like 3/4 hours - seems short but its meant to be replayable like l4d2
worthy rose
❤️ 
fringe blade
We don't know how long the story will be
And making estimates seems silly
We barely know anything
cerulean ice
thats the fun kinda
fringe blade
Its not fun if its baseless guessing
spring solar
not really - we know the story is gonna take place in maps that are also gonna be pvp
so we know that its gonna be similar to archives
fringe blade
No
peak escarp
they might have extra areas that aren't in the PvP maps
spring solar
we can safely assume like 20/30 minutes per map
peak escarp
like Antonio's office or the restaurant
spring solar
so even with 15 maps thats like 6-7 hours
and i believe 15 is still unlikely
the ship is in rio
fringe blade
The ship in Rio de Janeiro
yea
There was content in there too
So they arent limited by only the maps
Oh yea, Guthenburg will be assault
forgot that
spring solar
right but u have to remember its a replayable 4 player pve
each mission isnt gonna be long
fringe blade
That is a very broad restriction
spring solar
not really its game design
fringe blade
And I am not sure if all the missions will be 4 player
peak escarp
I figure the missions will be 15-20 minutes long
fringe blade
There's a lot of potential for 2 player or even solo tbh
spring solar
right but we know for sure were getting 4ve
peak escarp
the OW2 website says "four-player missions"
spring solar
based off of past 4ve things, most of it isnt that long
peak escarp
any other configuration has not been mentioned
fringe blade
That's honestly a shame
peak escarp
it's still a team based game
spring solar
like people should gear their expectations closer to l4d2 rather than like a cod campaign
fringe blade
It’s up to you and your friends to stop Null Sector, the elite forces of Talon, and other enemies of Overwatch from carrying out their plans.
'other enemies of Overwatch'
So that def. confirms we are getting other resistance groups
or opposing groups, other
spring solar
other enemies of overwatch could just be one more group
peak escarp
still hoping for Helix
fringe blade
Its probs either Helix or Vishkar
cerulean ice
i doubt of the either
fringe blade
why
cerulean ice
are you referring to enemies or
fringe blade
Opposing groups
cerulean ice
then no
fringe blade
why not
spring solar
vishkar is sneaky - id say its a safe bet - no india map and lore already points to vishkar being questionable
cerulean ice
itd be nice if we had the utopaea map
peak escarp
Helix has the numbers, has flying units, and would provide a "good guy" team for us to play against for Talon missions
spring solar
i also dont know how many indian ppl play overwatch, but pc culture is huge in india
peak escarp
and it would give Pharah a reason to be in the story
fringe blade
It says 'other enemies of Overwatch'
And helix isn't really an enemy of Overwatch
Not really an ally either
peak escarp
Helix could be called in to enforce the Petras Act
limpid agate
Helix could very easily be an enemy of Overwatch
peak escarp
and then they'd be enemies of Overwatch
fringe blade
That's what I was thinking tbh
cerulean ice
yes but how would you perceive them as enemies in the current events?
limpid agate
Helix could be called in to enforce the Petras Act
fringe blade
Helix enforcing the Petras Act seems like a possibility
it'd be quite cool, honestly
spring solar
vishkar could easily be made to be the big bad - theyre already a huge globalist corp tryna influence world politics
fringe blade
Like I said, its probably going to be either Vishkar or Helix
spring solar
if it was vishkar then like itd be good foreshadowing and would really tie everything together
peak escarp
and based on Mercy's perspective on Helix, they are viewed as Overwatch's replacement
breakout. Helix was a peacekeeping force, but in my mind, they were little better
than mercenaries. They were paid to protect the interests of the government, not
its people: an unsurprising replacement for Overwatch.```It might just end up being bad wording on their part
idk, i have honestly gotten used to not get my expectations up too high
spring solar
if helix are baddies, the word mercenaries imply a further puppetmaster tho
fringe blade
No
fringe blade
Like Doc said, they could be hired to enforce the Petras Act
peak escarp
the UN could hire them to go after Overwatch
fringe blade
And they seem to be the most likely candidate tbh
fringe blade
I mean, it sounds like a realistic possibility
peak escarp
and the main reason I'd pick them over Vishkar is that we know Helix has flying units
and flying units make for more challenging AI fights
spring solar
- sanjay in talon
cerulean ice
hard light is extremely powerful
fringe blade
I think both factions could produce interesting results
spring solar
if they dont do anything w that then theyve just been teasing vishkar and sanjay for no reason
peak escarp
I don't think Vishkar has an army of people to send at Overwatch
fringe blade
And I wouldn't be disappointed to see either
cerulean ice
i see vishkar more of a neutral though
fringe blade
I mean, Sanjay is a talon agent
young knoll
Overwatch's world doesn't strike me as the type to have corporate armies
peak escarp
Vishkar is still part of the bigger story - they're only a little more established than Lumerico
spring solar
vishkar in lore isnt neutral - its always been portrayed as shady/corrupt
u got sanjay in talon, vishkar fucking w rios ppl, the secret shady business shit
fringe blade
We honestly really don't know that much about Vishkar
cerulean ice
sad symm noises
peak escarp
the shady business is all Sanjay
cerulean ice
^
fringe blade
They have some questionable policies
peak escarp
we don't know if Vishkar knows/condones Sanjay's actions or not
peak escarp
Vishkar is scummy, but so are a lot of corporations that exploit people
doesn't make them evil
cerulean ice
ok but hes in talon though
spring solar
could sanjay be the guy in charge making vishkar shady? yes. is it just him? no
peak escarp
Lucio led a revolt against Vishkar because they were renovating his neighbourhood (legally, since they got the contract) and imposing unfair rules on the people and exploiting them as a labour force
fringe blade
^^
They aren't evil, they are just a company with some questionable motives/policies
peak escarp
that's not really shady, that's just gentrification
fringe blade
Just like most companies nowadays, tbh
young knoll
companies are legally obligated to make money
sure, some are bad, but most get a bad rap because people have no idea how economics and business works
spring solar
right but in stories w protagonists/antagonists vishkar is more bad guy leaning rather than neutral
limpid agate
They are an antagonist
fringe blade
They certainly have done some undeniably evil things
young knoll
only Sanjay as far as we know
young knoll
Sanjay did that
peak escarp
Sanjay blew up a building
fringe blade
I mean, he was still with the company even after doing that
So they didn't seem to care that much
young knoll
he didn't have to tell them
peak escarp
like I said, we don;t know if Sanjay did that under Vishkar's orders, or if he took the initiative on that
Vishkar got the contract in the end, so they probably aren't bothered by the means
fringe blade
He didn't have to tell them that their target building was suddenly blown up?
fringe blade
I doubt that they would just let it go so easily lol
I think that its like Doc said
They don't seem to care about the means
Or not really, anyways
peak escarp
it's like Moira - she just wants to get results, she doesn't care about the ethics of the methods used to achieve those results
some people might see that as evil; I see it as neutral
fringe blade
Eh
left kite
Killing bunnies and humans fo science
fringe blade
Depends on your view of things
Humans have been killing mice for science for decades
Rodents of all kind
young knoll
so, as long as you get results, not caring about the method simply makes you neutral?
that is a bit simplistic
spring solar
moira is still an antagonist even if u dont think its evil
left kite
Yeah
spring solar
like vishkar is still an antagonist even if its not all evil or if u dont think its evil
spring solar
yes good same page thank you next
fringe blade
Antagonist doesnt mean evil
peak escarp
but going back to the original point, I doubt they would realistically have the manpower or resources to be one of the factions we fight against in OW2
spring solar
no shit but antagonists arent the heroes of the story
peak escarp
Null Sector and Talon have hundreds/thousands of disposable people to throw at us
Helix would have that too
Vishkar doesn't seem to have an army
left kite
I want to see the ironclad industries map and the lore behind it
spring solar
vishkar has money and is rebuilding entire cities - if they wanted to they could either just 1. do vishkar tech or 2. use talon operatives because vishkar and talon are connected
peak escarp
but then you'd just be fighting Talon
young knoll
only Sanjay is connected that we know of
spring solar
are u expecting like a shit ton of different types of bad guys in ow 2
we most likely wont be getting that
fringe blade
I don't even know what to expect at this point, honestly
peak escarp
the description of the game says Null Sector, Talon, and other enemies of Overwatch
spring solar
we most likely will be fighting robots and talon on a shit ton of maps
peak escarp
so I'm expecting at least one other faction that we haven't been shown yet
limpid agate
I think other Omnic factions are likely, but lame. At least lame for launch
spring solar
iunno about helix - theyve just been there in lore imo with minimal consequence - not ruling it out, but i think its a safe bet to say that all the shit theyve dropped lore wise are crumbs for the big picture next story
limpid agate
Gameplaywise, the Gwisin are just Black and Red Null Sector.
fringe blade
I wouldn't even be surprised if they just recolored the null sector units in Busan
young knoll
I suppose, but the ones that fought D.va seemed at least a little unique
albeit rather missile reliant
fringe blade
I was hoping to have a boss fight against one of those giant Gwishin
young knoll
what do you mean?
fringe blade
Like one of the colossus' or something
young knoll
there is only one colossus as far as I am aware
fringe blade
Aren't they called Omnic Colossus' ?