Emotions in general
#lore-discussion
fringe blade
peak escarp
my theory is that she moved into her family's estate, put up wedding photos around the house, even visits his grave to try to provoke the emotional response
but it's not working
cosmic crest
I thought the exact opposite of that.
peak escarp
@drowsy dome Amelie Lacroix was kidnapped and turned into a sleeper agent so they could kill Gerard Lacroix, the Overwatch anti-Talon specialist
fringe blade
I agree with that Doc
peak escarp
they had already attempted and failed to kill him many times before, including the bombing of the office that kicked off the Retribution subplot
drowsy dome
ok so it didnt have much to do with Antonio's death
peak escarp
I thought the exact opposite of that.
@cosmic crest you thought she moved into her family's estate and put up pictures so she wouldn't feel emotions?
or you think it is working?
cosmic crest
I thought she did those things because she already feels emotions or is at least starting to.
fringe blade
If she was starting to feel emotions, there would be changes in her behavior
fringe blade
If she was starting to feel emotions, she would start understanding how wrong it is what she is doing
drowsy dome
I think she might want to adapt to a 'normal' life? like have a home to retreat too but she enjoys what she does now.
fringe blade
I think Doc's theory fits quite well
young knoll
why would that be, Reno? the rest of talon feels emotions and don't do that
fringe blade
I've thought the same thing for a while
drowsy dome
Because Sombra too has a place to go to to get away
fringe blade
Because unlike Widow, they weren't forced to become killers
drowsy dome
they all willingly joined from what we know
young knoll
just because she can start feeling other emotions doesn't mean other things wouldn't stick
fringe blade
I mean, Sigma was also kinda forced to join?
But he's insane
So he is an unfair example
peak escarp
Widowmaker may not have joined willingly, but she enjoys what she does
fringe blade
^^
peak escarp
knowing it's wrong wouldn't change how much she enjoys it
dry portal
He is mentally unstable but from his one way interactions he seems to still be able to hold a polite conversation, especially with other scientists
drowsy dome
she expresses that at the end of the Alive short
fringe blade
Fair point
drowsy dome
i wonder if she enjoys killing so much cuase it does make her feel something?
dry portal
yeah that's the point
fringe blade
Moving into your family house and hanging up pictures of your family is quite an emotionally fulfilling thing to do
Either she did it on purpose, or she did it out of sentiment
dry portal
she was probably conditioned that way on purpose so she'd carry out her tasks "willfully"
as in she gets pleasure from it
fringe blade
The thrill of the kill seems to be the only strong emotion that she feels
drowsy dome
i also wonder if she just got the family home to get away from everyone at Talon cause she clearly doesnt enjoy Sombra's company
cosmic crest
I just want them to do something interesting with Widow that makes sense for her character.
fringe blade
Yes
Me too
Making her go back to a normal life doesn't make sense for her character though
Not as I see it, anyway
Its possible that she might go rogue and become a contract assassin
dry portal
then again I don't think a lot of the more serious ones enjoy Sombra's company
like Reaper
fringe blade
Sombra is a very valuable asset
So I think they tolerate her for her skills
I don't think they would want to lose the (best?) hacker in the world just because they don't like her personality
drowsy dome
yea, i agree cause when Doomfist got out, reaper stood up for her in his own way
dry portal
I wonder what lies they feed Sigma to keep him around, he's not very sane at the moment but I think he'd atleast know what a terrorist group is
fringe blade
I doubt that he stood up for her out of sentiment
drowsy dome
no i believe he said he doesnt trust her but her skills are useful
drowsy dome
i wonder if they told him that he could maybe contiune his research or help him out
dry portal
Yeah I assume they probably put him into some researching position
peak escarp
But something went wrong, triggering the brief formation of a black hole. De Kuiper was only exposed to its power for a moment, but he suffered serious psychological damage. The area around him began to experience strange fluctuations in gravity, peaking and dropping in time with his reactions. He had to be evacuated immediately.
dry portal
he'd most likely catch on if they put him in field work
fringe blade
Like I said, we don't really know what changed in him
peak escarp
he made a tiny black hole for a fraction of a second
fringe blade
If they provide him with the resources that he needs for his research, I don't see why he'd be opposed to them
Considering that they also broke him out of prison
Or out of a psychiatric facility
Probably the latter
peak escarp
it was a government facility
doesn't say what kind
probably not a prison, he didn't do anything illegal
fringe blade
Seeing as he formed a black hole, I can see how and why the government would be interested
dry portal
Is it shown how he got back to earth?
fringe blade
...?
peak escarp
Upon returning to Earth, De Kuiper was quarantined in a secret government facility. Between his ravings about the patterns of the universe, the psychic damage he sustained, and the gravitic anomalies happening around him, he was deemed unsafe and detained for years under the name "Subject Sigma." Isolated and unable to control his powers, De Kuiper retreated into his own mind. He thought he would never see the outside world again.
peak escarp
nope, just says he was evacuated
dry portal
oh
peak escarp
so I guess other people were there and got him back to earth?
fringe blade
Having someone on your side who is potentially capable of creating black holes seems like an advantage
Dont you think
peak escarp
if they can control them, sure
dry portal
black holes seem more self destructive
peak escarp
but Sigma's control isn't great
dry portal
also another thing, is the song playing in Sigma's head an actual song or one just created?
fringe blade
Its a musical piece
Made by a real composer, I believe
Or a variation of a real composition
peak escarp
it's inspired by a real piece, but not exactly the same
dry portal
interesting
fringe blade
When they were teasing Sigma, there was a big manhunt to find the music
cosmic crest
I think Sigma might have schizophrenia.
fringe blade
I think Sigma has very many psychological illnesses
Probably including schizophrenia
peak escarp
he's supposed to be broken, not mentally ill
dry portal
Was sigma ever a composer for an orchestra or something like that
peak escarp
semantics I suppose, but he's not supposed to represent someone with mental illness
dry portal
he had a skin ingame that showed him like that but idk if it was canon
peak escarp
no, that skin isn't canon
fringe blade
Maestro isnt canon
peak escarp
most skins aren't
cosmic crest
I think it is quite obvious that Sigma is mentally ill.
drowsy dome
do you think he listens to classical music to soothe him?
peak escarp
“It’s interesting, because I can see how people in the community have identified with Sigma as someone who is struggling or dealing with mental health issues,” Chu said. “But with the idea of the character, we never intended him to be an example of someone who’s going through mental health issues. He’s really supposed to be more focused on this very specific thing that happened to him, which is that his body and his mind were literally ripped apart by the momentary exposure to a black hole.
cosmic crest
Possibly, but he seems to have auditory hallucinations of music as well.
fringe blade
That seems like a very broad explanation
dry portal
So he really is more of just fractured by what he saw
fringe blade
What does 'ripped apart' mean?
dry portal
like it was incomprehensible
peak escarp
the black hole distorted space and caused physical damage
fringe blade
I mean, 'literally ripped apart' makes it sound like his brain got split in half
If Talon continues to provide a platform for his research, I don't see how or why he'd leave them
And I can also see how they might appear as the good guys in his eyes
The government took him and locked him in a mental facility for years
Talon saved him
drowsy dome
i think thats why he is staying
dry portal
Might depend on his morals, whatever they are at this point
but yeah he'll prolly stay
fringe blade
Like I said, we really don't know many specifics about what happened to him
Chu's words are very broad
drowsy dome
i mean look at what happened with Baptiste when he left, i dont think you can simply leave
dry portal
Yeah and it's not like he'd be a hard guy to locate
fringe blade
Sigma seems to be able to control gravity at volition now
In their custody, De Kuiper slowly gained control of his powers. Now, gravity moved according to his will, and he was closer than ever to achieving his life's goal.
Not completely, but quite close to it
dry portal
Is there a lore explanation for what his hyperspheres are?
fringe blade
By the sound of it
peak escarp
he's probably going to try to do the experiment again, thinking that now that he can control gravity, he'll be able to contain it
fringe blade
Theoretically, his spheres are containers, holding black holes
But I dont think there were any canon explanations for them
We saw them in lore
But not how they work
young knoll
if he can control his powers, I think he'd be able to escape
fringe blade
But why would he
Talon saved him
Gave him resources
A lab
Unlike the government, they didn't lock him up
dry portal
I doubt he could control them well enough to escape
fringe blade
Even if he comes to a state of mind clear enough to understand Talon's ideology, I don't know why he'd escape
cosmic crest
It would be cool if he tried the experiment again and it led to some disastrous event.
fringe blade
I mean, I can def. see him trying it again
The question of whether or not it will be successful will likely decide the direction of the story
drowsy dome
i think now that he can control it, maybe it will be successful??
fringe blade
He can't fully control gravity
He has more control than before, sure
But we really don't know enough about his research
All we know is two vague sentences
drowsy dome
Sorry i meant that he has more control over it than the first time so maybe that will help him
drowsy dome
so do you guys think that Mercy will tell everyone that Morrison is still alive? and do you think they will try to get them to join?
fringe blade
I'm not sure if 76 will want to join
drowsy dome
oh i know he won't but wonder if they will ask him anyways
peak escarp
he won't join
drowsy dome
him and Ana made it clear that they are on the run and have a mission, she might respect that and not tell the others
cosmic crest
I don't think he'll join, but it would be cool if they worked together at some point.
fringe blade
It's possible
peak escarp
Reyes, Ogundimu, Maximilien, Vialli, Sombra, O’Deorain, and the rest of them.
They’ll be dealt with.”```I mean, I can imagine him coming to aid in the moment of dire need
peak escarp
maybe
but he's got his own mission, and I don't think they'll cross paths that often
fringe blade
Yea
I can see Overwatch and 76 crossing paths as often as Overwatch and Pharah will cross paths
sick siren
I honestly doubt that Reyes will ever be held accountable because of his history with OW
sick siren
Like they always seem to just escape OW
And Moira? They'll always be an appetite for her discoveries and thus always someone to bail her out of trouble.
dry portal
?
cosmic crest
@sick siren What is it you don't think Reyes will be held accountable for?
sick siren
Moira doesn't have to remain "loyal" to anyone because literally any organisation would do anything to have her
fringe blade
Why would she change causes all of a sudden?
She seems to believe in Talon's ideologies and they provide her with necessary resources
I don't see why she'd need to go anywhere else
sick siren
If Talon stood in the way of her research or screwed her over in some way
cosmic crest
Why would they do that?
sick siren
Idk I'm not a fortune teller, am i? Xd
cosmic crest
Then why bring it up?
fringe blade
I mean
He has the right to make theories
But he should back them up with something
Assumptions based on nothing dont do anything
wintry sigil
limpid agate
Assumptions based on nothing dont do anything
This. If your theory has no base and nothing beyond just "Yeah but what if it did happen?" then it has very little reason to be here, or to be discussed.
If your theory has no arguments to support it, then its not a good theory.
carmine pewter
chilly peak
Eye Conspiracy is probably comparable to Burning Legion/Sargeras plot in Warcraft universe. Which is one of the main axis. A very long plot which will be resolved after many years
chrome sparrow
hi
warped escarp
some thing has been bugging me for a while. How did hanzo 'kill' genji ?
Like with what weapon
safe valve
sword
warped escarp
So was it genji's dragonblade or was it that sword at the hanamura shrine?
safe valve
hanzo was always the better swordsman, but out of honour for his brother, when hanzo killed him after a duel gone sour, he vowed to never use a sword again
it was the sword at the hanamura shrine
warped escarp
Okay, but if both genji's arms and legs were missing did he attack him from behind or from the front
safe valve
im not sure about that one
warped escarp
because i always thought he attacked from the front not behind
peak escarp
the missing limbs may not be from the fight - they might have been replaced to aid with cyberization
all we know is the fight left Genji paralyzed/unable to walk
warped escarp
I've always thought that as he didnt want to kill him, he wouldnt of litreally didmemebered him if he didnt want to think about it
Judging by the slashes on genji's shoulders it probably means hanzo did that as a form of weakening him so he woud give in to the clans ideas
dry portal
that's cheap
warped escarp
point
drowsy dome
i wonder if Hanzo cut him down when his back was turned because he knew Genji would probably fight back?
cosmic crest
I think they had an intense fight and Hanzo did end up de-limbing Genji.
drowsy dome
Genji and Hanzo weren't that close correct?
cosmic crest
Of course they were, they are brothers.
But they had a strained relationship, Hanzo was committed to the clan whereas Genii didn't really care.
In fact, I'm of the belief that Genji told Overwatch about the clans location in Hanamura.
I think Hanzo was on the fence about killing his brother, but finding out that he betrayed the clan pushed him over the edge.
peak escarp
I dont think Genji was with Overwatch before Hanzo attacked him
cosmic crest
Given the state Genji was supposedly left in, he must have gotten medical attention really quickly to survive, which suggest Overwatch was already in the area.
peak escarp
Overwatch was already surveilling the Shimada clan
The global security force saw Genji as a potential asset in its ongoing operations to combat the Shimada clan.
they could have already had spies among them who could call in backup
drowsy dome
i wonder how they found him? Like an agent of OW had to have been in the area
Oops i didnt see that last part from Doc..
fringe blade
I've always thought that Genji was facing Hanzo when Hanzo slit through him
Made the moment seem more dramatic, I suppose
Doesn't Genji say 'I learned that from my brother' when you hit someone in the back in-game?
cosmic crest
That's just a kill quote.
fringe blade
Yes
But still
I think it happens when you attack someone from the back
Let me check
Yea, if you dash-kill someone from the back, that's when you can get the voiceline
drowsy dome
so maybe Hanzo did attack him when his back was turned.
fringe blade
Yes, that seems like the probable conclusion
fringe thistle
yeah hanzo probably cut him down with his back turned
i really wanna see where hanzo goes in ow2
i hope he meets zen
drowsy dome
I'm hoping that Hanzo some how finds his way into Overwatch after his over whole arc... but meeting with Zen will be meh in my opinion.
static pumice
arctic loom
so gamescom starts tomorrow
you guys think something about ow 2 going shows up
im really hope...
just show anything about the game and i going be happy
hushed jetty
It would be nice if they did, but I doubt it at this point
If they do show anything, it might be just more information about what we expect to see. Not really a trailer or anything. They might have another demo up
worthy rose
Do you think with such advancements in technology, specifically medically; the lifespan of the characters will be significantly higher?
Are reaper and tracer immortal based on their conditions?
lament prawn
tracer ages normally
we dont know whether or not the few seconds she skips or rewinds with her blink/recall count toward her age, but theyre such tiny amounts that cancel each other out anyway
terse oar
It may be implied that Mercy doesn’t age normally (although it may just be frivolous conversation)
Mei: “Dr. Ziegler, you look like you haven’t aged a day since I last saw you.”
worthy rose
Oh true I never took into account the physiological effects of tracers abilities
Yeah mercy 's healing tech seems pretty advanced; if it's canonical that she could revive people I have no doubt it could be used to prolong ageing
lament prawn
her revive is not canon
worthy rose
Ohh
lament prawn
this is what rez looks like in canon https://tenor.com/view/mercy-mei-heal-healing-heal-up-gif-16218691
its just healing
worthy rose
Oh ok
lament prawn
a lot of in-game abilities either arent canon or dont work like the canon
worthy rose
Oh ok!
When omnics die, do they cease to be? Since they are somewhat tech can't they upload their consciousness into another body?
Is the Iris the equivalent of the cloud?
lament prawn
realistically and logically, you'd think so, but they seem to be straying away from the idea that "robots are just robots that can be duplicated and rebuilt" because that takes all the value out of omnic characters/heroes and makes them feel less human/relatable
they're robots, but they're written to have personalities and "souls" that cant be remade
we dont really know what the iris is, we just know its what the shambali believe in
worthy rose
Oh ok thanks for the in depth response
terse oar
One of my theories is that Echo was meant to be seen as a sort of religious figure, as her code name was “Iris” during development
worthy rose
oh that makes sense
i wonder if this concept of implied purpose was put into every created omnic. Who decides to create another omnic? Is it the same process as wanting to have a baby?
Has there been any prominent omnic characters in the lore that believes/advocates the idea that omnics are superior to humans? I.e. not just a common null sector kind of bot but a fleshed out character?
peak escarp
Mercy does age
that interaction is Mei saying when looks like she hasn't aged, not confirmation that she hasn't actually aged
and generally, women don't age that much physically between 28 and 37, especially if they take care of themselves
terse oar
@worthy rose Anubis believed that Omnics should rule over humans I think (from Pharahs comic)
Although they were a god-program, so I guess that’s warranted
worthy rose
Oh man I gotta revisit these comics!
Was the content of the data that mei received at eco point revealed yet?
peak escarp
not yet
terse oar
It was just high climate variations wasn’t it?
Basically just how to stop global warming or something
lament prawn
if they've deliberately kept it a secret, thats too simple of an explanation
it feels bigger/more immediate to me, whatever the anomaly is
stiff hamlet
Does anyone know when Sojourn got all of her cybernetic enhancements?
peak escarp
she had less enhancements 20 years ago, but she was still a cyborg then
so it seems like a life-long process
stiff hamlet
Do we know exactly why she got them?
Was it just as an upgrade, or some major accident?
stiff hamlet
👌
hushed jetty
speaking of that picture, do we have any idea who that person on the left is yet?
or on the right
hushed jetty
ah, okay
frigid stirrup
This might be a weird question, but why does Young Genji have green hair? It kinda feels forced..?
Is it just because he's rebellious
In his own way
frigid stirrup
So Genji intentionally pissed off his family then?
drowsy dome
If i'm correct, he went against everything his family stood for, so i bet dying his hair was a huge rebel
worthy rose
i wonder what concept genji's lore was going to be
i.e. genji + hanzo
faked his death i guess
three dragons
drowsy dome
like how they interacted or what?
worthy rose
oh i mean, genji originally was supposed to have both hanzo/genjis kits
so technically hanzo didnt exist and genji was both of the brothers
drowsy dome
ohhh ok i forgot that Genji was the only one for a while... i wonder why they split them
drowsy dome
he would be so op
worthy rose
i guess since the original build had offense and defence roles, and how the kits were designated to each one, it would be hard to classify that version of genji into one class?
you can probably workshop this concept!
just make the interact input switch the hero between genji and hanzo
worthy rose
In the dragons short when did Genji pick up the feather
This thought honestly bothers me
peak escarp
he probably had another one
fringe blade
I've always found the subtle symbolisms of the Dragons short quite fascinating
There was a video where a film producer/director watched the short and broke it apart, and he covered quite a few of them
Its pretty cool
I didnt notice quite a few of them before he mentioned it
limpid agate
Feathers are not exactly rare.
fringe blade
ah
yea
makes sense
that makes the feathers even more rare
they aren't exactly hard to find
but its not like you can just find sparrow hawk feathers lying around, right?
pliant sparrow
Sparrowhawks are more common than eagles as far as I know
dim horizon
Genji is definitely invested enough in making dramatic entrances/exits to put in the time and effort to collect a few feathers for whenever he needs to remind people sparrows/sparrowhawks are kind of his thing.
"How else will they know how cool I am?"
worthy rose
Can't wait to see some updated cosplay!
magic pier
can brig just liek
fall off a cliff
and die
ow 2 comes out
just
no brig
shes gone
pliant sparrow
Why
worthy rose
Her gameplay trailer is pretty hype
knotty nimbus
She sucks now
iron plume
This isn't a gameplay (or a rant) channel
drowsy dome
Brig was against Reinhardt going back to OW so what changed her mind to join herself you think?
dim horizon
I don't think she necessarily has changed her mind when it comes to Reinhardt. I think she still considers it a bad idea.
She just knows he isn't going to change his mind, and it's her duty as his squire to be by his side even when he makes bad decisions.
drowsy dome
Do you think Torbs is going to join once again?
dim horizon
I think he will.
I speculated something like this might happen previously, but a very brief snippet in the OW2 gameplay trailer made me more confident in my theory ; Rein and Brig are going to try and convince him (with Bastion tagging along) to come back and help. Torb will initially say no - for all the same reasons Brig tried to dissuade Rein initially.
But then Talon/Null Sector/someone attacks, trying to take Torb out.
And he'll have a "when I thought I was out, they pull me back in" moment.
drowsy dome
i mean Reaper has the mission to kill all old Overwatch members wonder if that has a play in it??
i also completely forgot that Bastion is now with Torbs
dim horizon
Exactly. In the gameplay trailer I think it was Talon they were fighting on the Gothenburg map but that could be placeholders.
But yeah both major enemy factions we know about have a reason to try and target Torb. Reaper's revenge list for Talon, the knowledge he holds about omnics for Null Sector.
So I don't think he has the luxury of choosing to stay out of this fight.
Plus Rein + Brig + Torb + Bastion = 1-tank, 2-DPS, 1-Support, perfect for a 4-man story mission 😛
drowsy dome
Do you think we will get to see all of Torb's other kids in this game?
dim horizon
Honestly, no idea.
I know they originally had it that Brigitte was the oldest of his kids, and all those young'uns we see in various artworks were supposed to be her younger siblings.
But at some point they changed it so that those are now Torb's grandkids, and Brigitte is his youngest child.
Which might suggest they had an idea of something to do with other Lindholm kids which necessitated that change.
icy charm
I hope we get to see some zen lore am i right gamers?
drowsy dome
we need some Zen, Torbs and i want some Lucio lore too
dim horizon
Zen's high on my list, but tbh I'm looking forward to seeing characters interact that we wouldn't expect. Like Zarya meeting Zen would be interesting - ultimate anti-omnic hater meets the ultimate pro-harmony guru.
drowsy dome
i mean Zarya got 'along' with Lynx after a while she might, i say might, get along with Zen
icy charm
Idk
but how bout sigma?
will he get a redemption arc?
He is basically Talon's slave
dim horizon
Sigma's interesting, since lorewise he's arguably the single most powerful character.
And not by any short measure.
dim horizon
He's Talon's ultimate weapon at the moment. So seeing how the heroes deal with him would be very interesting.
icy charm
Yeah i think so too
knotty nimbus
And it all falls down
drowsy dome
i wonder if Sigma is just gonna stay with Talon cause he can continue his research or will OW help him out??? (once they figure out that he's there against his will)
dim horizon
So many ways they could take it - and it varies depending on who encounters him. Someone like Genji might see a kindred spirit, whereas Winston might have a personal connection given their shared history with Horizon, and so on.
Baptiste knows all about trying to break free of the Talon yoke, etc.
icy charm
Ooh baptiste interacting with overwatch will be very interesting
drowsy dome
yea, like sigma isnt a bad guy at all because from earlier discussions on here that Sigma is polite to other scientist
icy charm
"Always nice to see a colleague at work!"
drowsy dome
i think out of most of the charaters, Sigma is the one i'm in the dark about the most, cause he came out when i was taking a break from the game lol, so it's nice to learn all this about him
dim horizon
I'd be very surprised if we don't see Talon missions in the story campaign too, where we get to see how the likes of Sombra and Widowmaker interact Sigma.
Because unlike Reaper/Doomfist/Moira, they don't sit on the Talon Council - they're operatives, not necessarily in it for the ideals. And I could see Widowmaker and Sigma having a lot in common given they're both effectively brainwashed into loyalty.
And Sombra is on her own agenda, ofc.
Fingers crossed for some more glimpses of the OW2 story at Gamescom this week so we lore-lovers can fuel our speculations further!
drowsy dome
i honestly don't think anything will be announced (but i hope that somethings are) will be said at Gamescom that might keep it until Blizzcon
icy charm
she has the cooles design in the game
dim horizon
Yeah I don't think we're guaranteed anything at gamescom, but they have made announcements there in the past (D.Va short / Busan map was the last thing there I believe).
And with Blizzcon pushed back to 2021 they might throw us a bone.
dim horizon
Or at least a few new redesigns for the OG heroes!
They teased Moira is apparently particularly awesome at last year's Blizzcon.
worthy rose
im still hoping for jetpack cat
dim horizon
Some dreams never die.
worthy rose
oh and spider legs mouth beam lady
dim horizon
I'm hoping that's the concept they eventually take the Junker Queen with.
Like the spider is her mech.
worthy rose
oh yeah that would be pretty cool
i dont think the beam would fit anymore tho
maybe a flamethrower
dim horizon
Flamethrower, toxic/radiation beam, there's a few ideas you could play with there.
worthy rose
for character concepts that are bigger than the doors in overwatch, such as the spider mech lady, i think an easy fix would be that she just retracts the spider limbs effectively changing her size/hitbox accordingly
other ideas: spawning a set amount of destructible spider-bots, crawling across walls, jumping off walls
cosmic crest
I don't think it's that easy.
dim horizon
More likely they just shrink it down from the original concept.
I always got the impression D.Va's mech is a just a smidge bigger in-lore than it is in-game (it certainly seems bulkier in her animated short) but game practicalities > all. Could be the same with any potential future hero too.
peak escarp
But at some point they changed it so that those are now Torb's grandkids, and Brigitte is his youngest child.
@dim horizon nothing was changed, they were always his grandkids
people just thought they were his kids due to a misunderstanding
worthy rose
Brig has older siblings?
pliant sparrow
Yes
dim horizon
@dim horizon nothing was changed, they were always his grandkids
@peak escarp Ah, good to know.
subtle geyser
gamescom starts in 30 mins, lets see if we get anything today :D
lament prawn
in 30 min there's a pre-show thingy right? the actual event starts in an hour?
subtle geyser
it might be, the warcraft twitter just posted something
about in an hour
Tune in to #gamescom2020
in one hour to catch the premiere of our new Afterlives series. #Shadowlands
even though it starts in 30 min, so its probably just 30 min before it properly starts
ermm
this isnt the right place to advertise anything @worthy rose
@limpid agate
lament prawn
if you click the link to the actual youtube stream, the title says 11 AM PT
which is in 50 minutes
but the countdown says 20 minutes, so yeah probably 30 minute prep show
subtle geyser
the ign stream has a 30 min countdown
haha looks like its different for every stream lol
lament prawn
oh
i clicked the link from the summergamefest website, its hosted on thegameawards channel
white cobalt
So was just WOW so far?
opaque tundra
well boys, apparently we got nothing
peak escarp
Gamescom isnt over, there's 2 more days
arctic loom
yeah... but today was the main announcements
peak escarp
and there could also be announcements outside of Gamescom or Blizzcon
candid juniper
Tru
peak escarp
they don't need an event to tell us stuff
cosmic crest
True, but I think they said at Blizzcon last years that they weren't going to tell us more until the next Blizzcon, but it's been delayed so they should really reconsider that.
limpid agate
There has been no Overwatch 2 announcement yet. The best case is a random unannounced teaser on Twitter in the next couple weeks. The worst case is nothing until Blizzcon 2021 (which will be in Jan/Feb).
peak escarp
True, but I think they said at Blizzcon last years that they weren't going to tell us more until the next Blizzcon, but it's been delayed so they should really reconsider that.
@cosmic crest yes, that's why I'm hoping they'll make announcements outside of major gaming events
grand wedge
I'm affraid the worst case is going to be the one 😦 I wasn't expecting anything from Gamescom, we'll see tomorrow but it seems unlikely
let's hope they'll drop something before 2021
subtle geyser
i think it just sucks a lot that we didnt get any big announcements all year
they're just kinda leaving us in the dark
pearl python
new torb lore includes this emote !4!!!!!4!!!
drowsy dome
blizzard said since they cant hold blizzcon this year, that they are going to try and do an online showcase for everyone... so we might still have a shot at something in Nov.
peak escarp
they said that online showcase would be in early 2021
drowsy dome
oh ok so we all have to wait now
lament prawn
True, but I think they said at Blizzcon last years that they weren't going to tell us more until the next Blizzcon
they didnt specifically say that - they said they were going dark for a bit after blizzcon 2019. then, when asked when the game would release, jeff said something like "i imagine we'll be talking about OW2 similarly next blizzcon" which just means the game wont be out until past next blizzcon
also, its just as unlikely we'll get OW2 news tomorrow as it was today, but i dont get why everyone is suddenly let down as if gamescom is over
it doesnt have to be part of the major announcements of the opening night - its already been announced, anything more would be just a status update
peak escarp
also, we haven't been promised anything
so we shouldn't be disappointed if there's no mention
anything shown at gamescom will be a surprise
drowsy dome
i think people just hyped themselves up thinking we'll get more
subtle geyser
thats me at pretty much any event lol
limpid agate
Our last lore drop was Hero of Numbani
Our last gameplay drop was the big Lucioball Blitz and new maps
Our last permanent gameplay drop was Echo
Depending on which of the three you define as content, there is a gradient of how long it's been since the last drop
Likewise, we are only short 1 hero in terms of content
ornate wigeon
I want another hero story 😫
subtle geyser
i think it just sucks a lot that we didnt get any big announcements all year
they're just kinda leaving us in the dark
i was more referring to overwatch 2 with this
peak escarp
they said they'd be going dark post Blizzcon
limpid agate
@worthy rose Lore only
worthy rose
The gif was of sombra using her ult. In her ult she states "apagando las luces" meaning turning out the lights.
they said they'd be going dark post Blizzcon
^^^
"Going dark" , "apagando las luces" it's a clever reference to a character and their storyline of continuing info (in this case preventing anything going to the public) :v
dim horizon
Our last lore drop was Hero of Numbani
Our last gameplay drop was the big Lucioball Blitz and new maps
Our last permanent gameplay drop was Echo
@limpid agate Speaking of Hero of Numbani, anyone here read it? Without giving any spoilers away is it worth picking up?
grand wedge
If you like OW lore : yes
I enjoyed reading it as an OW fan and lore junkie - but don't expect any big lore drop. It was entertaining and nice to read with full of easter eggs and hints along the novel that were pretty cool
dim horizon
👍 I will probably take a gamble on it then, I do like me some lore.
swift mason
Currently reading it now (I’m taking my time with it) and I am thoroughly enjoying the lore
subtle geyser
i have the orisa book 4 times now because amazon kept damaging it during delivery lol
terse oar
“He’s a monk, bam”
-Blizzard
grand wedge
Jeff said "Zenyatta lore Blizzard soon" a year ago. So I'd say in a year you can expect him to have some lore ( probebly for OW2 / or the pre launch teasers/content)
swift mason
Blizzard’s meaning of soon is never as close as you’d expect
Like months ago they said that more new designs for OW2 will be coming very soon
cerulean ice
theyre most likely having issues
which i can understand
i dont rlly mind tbh
no reason to be impatient
drowsy dome
my theory is that they might release a lot of things around the second game, so hopefully we'll get more lore then
cerulean ice
it has been developed for a long time and its only been announced last year
so its gonna be bigg
opaque tundra
I mean they have to redesign like 20 something more heroes and we don't know how long the main story is so
Also, for anyone curious, I'm pretty sure there won't be any ow2 stuff in today's Gamescon stream either
cerulean ice
i expected but theres still a few more days
before gamescom ends
i dont watch it so maybe its confirmed no ow2 content for awhile?
opaque tundra
Who knows
lament prawn
there are individual streams set up for each day of gamescom, and the full schedule for that day is in the description
no OW2 in any of them
cerulean ice
bummer
dim horizon
Yeah it's a flagship game, it would have been in the opening night (or at least a "tune in for OW2 on Day 2", etc) if it was going to feature.
Which is a shame, I was kind of hoping for an animated short as I thought they might amp up the frequency in the run-up to OW2 in the same way we had quite a few in the run-up to the first game.
Which they still might.
But not today!
peak escarp
the big lore drop we got before launch was only the 2 months before launch day
if we get a big lore drop for OW2, it will probably be right before launch too
cerulean ice
?
peak escarp
between March and May of 2016, we got 5 animated shorts and 6 comics
dim horizon
Oh wow were they really that close together? I completely misremembered that.
dim horizon
Nice.
terse oar
Since the OW2 announcement trailer was about Overwatch reforming, what if the next one is about Talon and it introduces Mauga
drowsy dome
i just hope they do big lore drops before
hushed jetty
I would love some more Mauga lore
tulip pilot
i just want to know if widowmaker is trans or not 🤷
doesn't matter
i don't think OW2 is gonna go in a good direction with Chu and the other girl gone
hushed jetty
if widowmaker is trans, that'd probably something they'd reveal in a short story or comic
peak escarp
there are still plenty of good writers working on the story
hushed jetty
kind of like what they did with tracer ad soldier, i assume
peak escarp
also I doubt Widowmaker is trans
drowsy dome
Wasn't Nguyen once part of Overwatch who turned to Talon?
tulip pilot
really want to see more but I'm excited wherever they take the story
drowsy dome
idk why i thought it was Nguyen lol
peak escarp
if they're going to introduce a trans character, they should be designed as such from the beginning
I doubt any of the current heroes are
peak escarp
then why bring it up?
tulip pilot
Uh, because I just wanted to say it?
I mean why are you hating on me just because I was interested in it happening
It's not like I'm a diversity pusher
tulip pilot
Well yeah I would LOVE for widowmaker to be trans
but I mean, I only brought it up once
You kept pushing it over and over
drowsy dome
i wonder if they are going to be putting anymore LGBTQ people in after how people (not all) took the news with 76?
tulip pilot
Well if people are going to be LGBTQ in overwatch I think it shouldn't be forced diversity
I don't think it should even be a part of the story
The reason people were upset was because it felt like Chu was forcing LGBT diversity on everyone in the cast
pliant sparrow
Did it?
drowsy dome
I did have a feeling from the beginning that Tracer was part of LQBTQ but i was suprised by 76
hushed jetty
i feel like if anyone in the cast is trans, it's probably moira
she seems androgynous in general
peak escarp
we have known that there are LGBT heroes since it was mentioned in at the Blizzcon reveal panel in 2014
emphasis on plural
androgynous != trans
pliant sparrow
Most characters are unconfirmed iirc
tulip pilot
plural means more than one so if tracer and 76 are the only two i won't complain
pliant sparrow
In terms of if they're LGBTQ or not
cosmic crest
I severely doubt that Widowmaker is trans.
drowsy dome
i wonder if they are going to put Moira in that cause i get those vibes from her
cosmic crest
If they introduce a trans character, it shoud be a new hero.
peak escarp
Moira has probably never watched anime in her life
the references in the game that all the heroes have are because the devs are nerds
tulip pilot
chill
drowsy dome
her run does get to me though lol
drowsy dome
in all honesty do you think that Genji liked that stuff when he was like alot younger?
tulip pilot
he liked videogames and women
pliant sparrow
He frequented an arcade
pliant sparrow
?
drowsy dome
i know the guy really loved gaming
hard sinew
Dw
peak escarp
Genji had all the high scores in the Hanamura arcade
and was known for his "playboy lifestyle"
tulip pilot
he did the nasty in the pasty
peak escarp
but it's incorrect to call him a weeb, because he's Japanese
tulip pilot
right. call him an otaku instead.
peak escarp
there you go
drowsy dome
do you guys think he would still enjoy playing games or did he just leave those in the past?
rocky osprey
I def think he would if he had the time
He'd be a decent gamer but one of those gamers who can't get too too pro because he got a real life going on now.
I wonder if Hanzo, if he pushed him enough, would get into video games a little for a day. 😂
drowsy dome
like Hanzo being into games? i dont think he would be to into those
cerulean ice
genji as a child had a childish and adventurous personality compared to his brother
hanzo sees games as something completely irrelevant
fringe blade
that's also why they ended up being so different and choosing such different paths in life
peak escarp
and why the clan elders told Hanzo to get Genji in line
fringe blade
Genji was the bolder and the more adventurous one
Hanzo was the proper and clear-headed one
Which is why, ultimately, Hanzo chose to continue the family legacy
Unlike Genji
cerulean ice
genji didnt rlly care about the family business
limpid agate
!!shitposting @elder pagoda
twilit nacelleBOT
@elder pagoda Shitposting will result in a loss of access.
elder pagoda
limpid agate
This channel is for serious discussion strictly related to the lore of Overwatch.
Consider this your final warning.
fringe blade
Depends on your definition of fun
fringe thistle
like how do you hate on chocolate
fringe blade
I don't think he is stuck-up
fringe thistle
but at least hanzo isnt symmetra
hanzo is just all business and no play
genji is opposite
hanzo really needs a break lol
fringe blade
That's not what stuck-up means though
fringe thistle
mans lives in his work
no hanzo is stuck up too tho
he looks down on genji a lot
fringe thistle
he thinks genji is stupid for enjoying life
fringe thistle
hanzos the stupid one tho
fringe blade
That's just unfair lol
fringe thistle
i didnt say he was a bad person
fringe blade
Okay, 'stupid' person
fringe blade
Just because he 'doesn't know how to relax' doesn't make him stupid
That's a very bad standard lol
fringe thistle
fringe blade
If you thought that you killed your own brother, you'd probably not relax either
Having a sibling die is bad enough, 'killing' one is 1000x worse
fringe blade
...
I agree that he is probably not in a very good mental state, but I don't think a vacation is a good call for him lol
fringe thistle
he has a lot of pressure on him
fringe thistle
well hes dealing with the fact that his brother is alive again and that he's outcasted from the clan for some reason
fringe blade
He isn't outcasted
fringe thistle
its not clear why he left the clan tho
fringe thistle
well duh
fringe thistle
but i mean why the clan became his enemies
like why did he have to sneak into shimada castle
fringe blade
I dont think the current leader of the Shimada Clan would be too happy to see either of the brothers
They are namesakes for the 'throne'
fringe thistle
i wonder who it is tho
fringe blade
We don't know
fringe blade
We have almost no information about anyone in the Shimada Clan
fringe thistle
yeah
fringe thistle
apparently sojiro is dead tho
fringe blade
Sojiro was their father
fringe thistle
well yeah i mean it's a family of assassins
i assume they're like the Zoldycks
famous assassins living in plain sight but no one knows anything about em
fringe blade
However, as far as I know, the Clan isn't functional anymore
fringe blade
When Genji joined Overwatch, he helped Overwatch dismantle his clan
fringe thistle
is that why he joined?
fringe thistle
i thought genji just joined ow to be able to move again
oh
hmm maybe, you could be right
it seemed active in dragons though
fringe blade
But as time passed, Genji felt increasingly at war with himself. He was repulsed by the mechanical parts of his body and could not come to grips with what he had become. When his mission was complete, he abandoned Overwatch and wandered the world in search of meaning.```When his mission was complete
Seems like he successfully dismantled the Clan
Or came close to it, anyway
fringe blade
I can see why Talon would be interested
I would assume the Shimada Clan has quite a good number of connections
and systems
Not really
fringe thistle
yee doom is always looking for more muscle, a clan of assassins is powerful
fringe blade
Considering they got dismantled, the only thing they have now (likely) is supporters
and a wide range of connections
peak escarp
Talon approached Sojiro Shimada, but he refused
fringe thistle
i assume it was basically a yakuza network
fringe blade
^^
peak escarp
Hanzo would probably refuse as well
fringe thistle
he does
fringe blade
I'm not sure how much of a say Hanzo would have though
peak escarp
they might be a yakuza family, but they have honor
fringe thistle
he straight up says he's not going to be akande's errand boy
wym most yakuza members have honor
there are unspoken rules tho
fringe blade
The Yakuza has an honor code
fringe thistle
yakuza business stays in the yakuza, they never involve civilians
fringe thistle
most of em wont ever kill or do anything intentionally harmful to civilians
fringe blade
I don't think they are based off of either
fringe thistle
yakuza are very honorable and loyal
peak escarp
he yakuza are notorious for their strict codes of conduct, their organized fiefdom nature, and several unconventional ritual practices such as yubitsume, or amputation of the left little finger.
fringe thistle
they just make money illegally and have turf wars so
fringe blade
The Yakuza's Code of Honor is quite impressive
fringe thistle
yubitsume is for yakuza members that break the code
fringe blade
The Shimada Clan is quite far from the Yakuza
fringe thistle
yeah they've more of a syndicate tbh
peak escarp
the yakuza never dealt in drugs
@worthy rose
The yakuza and its affiliated gangs control drug trafficking in Japan, especially methamphetamine.
fringe thistle
yakuza do deal in drugs wym
thats where the money comes from
they sell contraband on the black market in general
peak escarp
The Shimada family was established centuries ago, a clan of assassins whose power grew over the years, enabling them to build a vast criminal empire that profited from lucrative trade in arms and illegal substances.
fringe thistle
but yakuza aren't exactly like mobsters
peak escarp
the Shimadas dealt in drugs and weapons
fringe thistle
italian mafia is different, they're more ruthless
fringe blade
The formal code of honor of the Yakuza and how it operates now are quite different
fringe thistle
yakuza keeps yakuza business to itself, they never involve civilians
fringe blade
Nowadays, the Yakuza is quite drug active
fringe thistle
i've done a bit of reading on yakuza history, it's actually quite interesting
some of the clans did really good things with their illegal money tbh
fringe blade
We're getting off-topic
fringe thistle
i guess but this is still kinda like the Shimada clan
fringe blade
I mean, can't really smuggle drugs if there is no country to smuggle them into
peak escarp
the current Shimada clan is a ghost of what it was when Sojiro was around
fringe thistle
i suppose so but a good deed is a good deed imo
fringe blade
Considering it was nearly or completely dismantled by Genji and Overwatch, I'd say so, yes
fringe thistle
no matter the intention, it still has a positive impact
peak escarp
we don't know much about them, aside from the clan elders forcing Hanzo to "straighten out" Genji
probably by any means necessary
peak escarp
Genji was a playboy who lived a frivolous lifestyle
fringe thistle
yakuza wouldn't ever kill one of their own like that for no reason
from what i understand genji was just immature
fringe blade
Unlike Hanzo, Genji didn't grow up to continue his father's legacy
peak escarp
they're not just a crime family, they're a family of assassins
fringe blade
Like Doc said, he grew up in a rich and frivolous lifestyle
fringe thistle
true but idk its just that japanese have very strong familial beliefs so its weird that they'd turn on genji so hard
peak escarp
well, except for that part
fringe thistle
like how did that warrant killing him
peak escarp
I mean the partying hard and womanizing part
fringe thistle
true but how was he a threat
fringe blade
He presented them in a bad light, for one
fringe thistle
oh i guess info
fringe blade
Having the head of your clan be a rich playboy is not a good look
Or a namesake for the head of the clan
Considering the reputation they have, Genji was a threat to their image
fringe thistle
guess so
dapper patrol
Well to be fair Genji would not be head of clan though
dapper patrol
Nope
fringe thistle
genji must've been living some life tho
peak escarp
Upon the death of his father, the clan elders instructed Hanzo to straighten out his wayward younger brother so that he, too, might help rule the Shimada empire.
fringe blade
That's what namesake means
dapper patrol
Huge difference between first born
fringe blade
No, I don't mean he would take over the clan
fringe thistle
i mean like damn genji must've been spending billions of yen or something
dapper patrol
Help rule, not being head of clan
fringe blade
That's another thing too, its not like they didn't give Genji a chance to change his ways
dapper patrol
Usually other brothers will help the older brother rule, it is a family business (asume they dont try to overthrow)
fringe blade
Yes
fringe thistle
yeah iirc "young" genji was still in his 20s when the duel happened
fringe blade
That's what the elders wanted
peak escarp
As the youngest son of the master of the Shimada ninja clan, Genji lived a life of luxury and privilege. He had little interest in the family's illegal businesses, and although he excelled at and enjoyed his ninja training, he spent most of his time pursuing a playboy lifestyle. Many within the clan considered the carefree Genji to be a dangerous liability, and they resented his father for coddling and protecting him. Following the clan leader's untimely death, Genji's older brother, Hanzo, demanded that Genji take a more active role in their late father's empire. Genji refused, enraging Hanzo. The tension between the brothers built to a violent confrontation that left Genji on the verge of dying.
fringe thistle
so not that young
dapper patrol
To be fair we do not know how genji is during his playboy times, he might be REALLY unruley
fringe blade
Considering he was 'killed' for it, I'd say so, yea
fringe blade
Unlike Hanzo, Genji was never interested in taking over their father's throne
peak escarp
probably around 23-25
peak escarp
Overwatch was started around 30 years ago, during the omnic crisis
dapper patrol
Also, i am not sure about the current clan leaders... i mean "untimely death" and having one son to take out another, and probably knowing that would ruin the older brother mentally also... all sounds like a big ass conspiracy to me
peak escarp
I think the clan elders might have been involved in the "untimely death" of Sojiro, but that's just speculation
fringe blade
Either way, not much came of it
fringe thistle
considering ana had black hair at the founding and grey after its disbanding thats gotta be a while
i wonder when genji was found tho
peak escarp
Overwatch existed for 20 years after the crisis
fringe thistle
figure it took him a year or 2 to get to where he was in the retribution comic
peak escarp
Soldier says it in his origin trailer - "I led Overwatch for 20 years"
fringe thistle
no i mean how many years ago was the duel
like
how long was it from retribution-modern day
peak escarp
Retribution was 8 years ago, add 2-3 years for Genji's surgery and recovery
peak escarp
their fight would be ~10-11 years ago
peak escarp
yeah
fringe blade
23-25 sounds about right
peak escarp
old enough for the elders to expect Genji to end his playboy lifestyle and settle down as a head of the Shimada clan
fringe blade
He doesn't look that old
peak escarp
he's in his midlife crisis
fringe thistle
he's so young to start going grey tho
peak escarp
stress will do that
fringe thistle
dang
fringe blade
Considering the shit he lived through
fringe thistle
yeah i imagine
fringe blade
its not surprising
fringe thistle
hanzo had a stressful life tbh
fringe blade
You don't say
peak escarp
I wonder if we'll ever get to see Genji's face under the mask
fringe blade
I'm not really sure what even happened to his face
fringe thistle
his eyes seemed yellowish in dragons
fringe thistle
his face is probably fine
dapper patrol
reaper dont have hair anymore technically, it is all nano
fringe blade
His face shouldn't have been damaged
dapper patrol
ganji's fatal wound is by blade
fringe thistle
hanzo prolly pulled a ryujin no ken wo kurae on him
dapper patrol
we do not know if dragon and other things are used.
but likely genji and even hanzo did not use full strength in that fight
i mean if not it would at least be death
fringe thistle
hanzo's apparently a better swordsman than genji
fringe blade
Seeing the Blackwatch skin, I think its likely that he lost both of his legs as well as his arm
And his face looks fine in Blackwatch too
peak escarp
fringe blade
Or parts we can see, anyway
dapper patrol
not sure, but resolve of hanzo cutting genji at the time is MUCH BIGGER than genji hurting hanzo during that deal
fringe thistle
well there's a theory that where hanzo is kneeling in dragons is where he cut genji down
fringe blade
That's not really a theory
peak escarp
in some dialogue from Retribution, Genji tells McCree that he agreed to be cyberized because he wanted to walk again
peak escarp
Hanzo's attack probably left him paralyzed
fringe thistle
if you look at the banner with caligraphy it has a slash in it that matches perfectly where genji was cut
dapper patrol
we know his legs are gone
fringe thistle
nice hint by blizz
dapper patrol
we knoe one arm is gone
fringe blade
According to Michael Chu, his bottom half works fine
dapper patrol
his "hardware" works fine yes
peak escarp
dapper patrol
but legs gone
fringe thistle
his right arm and legs are gone
dapper patrol
body probably damaged
fringe thistle
and his left side is all scratched up
dapper patrol
bottom half of body, but not legs
dapper patrol
yes
fringe blade
Bottom half likely includes the legs too
dapper patrol
legs are definitely robotic
fringe blade
Doesn't mean he doesn't have them
dapper patrol
One question, how modified is bastion
fringe blade
They were likely modified
peak escarp
i wonder if genji can even like use the bathroom on his own
@fringe thistle this was asked in a 2017 interview for a Thai gaming magazine
fringe blade
To make him faster and more agile
peak escarp
Michael Chu: If you look at the Blackwatch Genji skin, you can see that Genji has some body missing. But I would like to confirm that Genji's bottom is still normal.```after he awakens he spend decades wandering in forest
fringe thistle
so genji's organs are prolly all fine then
peak escarp
yes
dapper patrol
well from the cut his organ might have damaged but i am sure nano can heal that
fringe thistle
hes a triple amputee
fringe thistle
but hes also fine aside from being an amputee
peak escarp
I think (just based on my own ideas) that his legs might have been voluntarily amputated so he could get cyborg legs that would give him better agility
dapper patrol
not the shit new version
fringe blade
I actually like that theory Doc
peak escarp
and his arm replaced with one that is faster and can hold shurikens
fringe thistle
well no it's confirmed genji couldnt walk
dapper patrol
might be spinal injury
fringe blade
Likely a spinal injury
fringe thistle
it's confirmed he was paralyzed or limbless
fringe blade
Not a leg injury
dapper patrol
his spine seems replaced or enhanced
fringe blade
Yes