current members: Reaper, Widowmaker, Moira, Sombra, Sigma, Doomfist
#lore-discussion
valid terrace
A narrow escape
proven knoll
then they die
peak escarp
with great difficulty
valid terrace
Twice
peak escarp
Baptiste abandoned his team during a mission 4 years ago and went MIA
they're still hunting him
the only way to truly leave Talon is in a pine box
proven knoll
Did he go to overwatch or what
peak escarp
he went into hiding, working as a clinic doctor in the caribbean
Sombra is a friend of his, she's probably helping to keep him off the radar
fringe field
I would love to see a Sigma cinematic, As a matter of fact id love to see any new cinematic
peak escarp
they'll come eventually
fringe field
Yeah the wait is worth, They are always stunning quality-wise
crystal phoenix
true
unborn tusk
@peak escarp not to mention, He and Mercy have worked together before as we see in their interactions in game
peak escarp
yes
they met during a humanitarian mission in Venzuela
it was mentioned in What You Left Behind
drowsy dome
@proven knoll Sombra really doesnt care lol. i believe she just wants information on people
drowsy dome
i think she cares about the underdogs , like eat the rich sort of thing
lament prawn
im still not convinced she's just pure evil
but i also dont think she'll ever be on the good side, because thats equally lame
she wants to be the one "pulling the strings", but for what? generic world domination?
she wants the power for something
peak escarp
I think she just wants power over people so nobody will have power over her
drowsy dome
i mean once she found out that Zarya knew her name she seemed a little shook
lament prawn
well yeah, she thought she wiped herself off the grid
her wanting power over people so they dont have power over her makes sense logically, but writing-wise idk if that would be her real reason
there's something we dont know about her, and i think the fact that we dont know right now is kind of in character for her lol
lament prawn
the organization she's in right now is talon
she used to help los muertos but i dont think she was ever a member (?)
peak escarp
she's also associated with Los Muertos
drowsy dome
i thought i read some where that she's in a hacker group or something and that's why she's wanting all that information
peak escarp
Affiliation: Talon, Los Muertos (formerly)
people who don't know who Sombra is think that Sombra is a collective
like Anonymous
drowsy dome
ohh ok that is what i was thinking that she was part of some group like Anonymous
rancid summit
Hi
proven knoll
i mean once she found out that Zarya knew her name she seemed a little shook
@drowsy dome is this in a short?
cerulean ice
sombra is lawful evil
worthy rose
how
cerulean ice
her only goal is to find the person who "runs the world" and then take over
information is power
peak escarp
she'll use anyone and anything to get what she wants
she's more chaotic neutral than anything
worthy rose
she just a troll
cerulean ice
the animated trailer for doomfist, is it canon?
peak escarp
yes
cerulean ice
how was tracer brought back if the accelerator was strapped onto her while fading away?
peak escarp
Winston probably had a backup/made a new one
cerulean ice
limpid agate
@cerulean ice Winston made it in the first place.
If something breaks, you make a new one.
The harder part was probably relocating Tracer.
Not making a new chronal anchor.
fringe blade
i wonder how winston find her in the first place
worthy rose
Was she shifting in and out of existent in the same place? Or was it at random places every time?
peak escarp
probably a lot of trial and error
worthy rose
Oh
swift mason
My theory is that after the doomfist battle, winston used the chamber where he put tracer the first time she disappeared, as a sort of anchor to bring her back. He might've made some upgrades to it to be able to pick up the right time frequency that Tracer is stuck in and Athena would've supposedly powered it up and brought tracer back. Just my theory.
cosmic crest
"Time frequency"
swift mason
Look IDK the name for it ok?
tall pewter
how did the shimadas get the ability of the dragons???????
worthy rose
I've always theorized that the dragons are released energy and they chose to make it in the shape of a dragon? lol idk. This is just speculation. We still don't really have an explanation for them.
glossy atlas
yeah they’ve always been a weird point in the lore cuz you have all these powers that are explainable by technology and stuff
and then you have magic japanese dragons
grand wedge
We just know that there is no magic in the world of Overwatch
So we know the dragons are not magical
But we don’t know what the sci-fi explanation is
odd urchin
We just know that there is no magic in the world of Overwatch
@grand wedge explain how zen floats huh
We don’t see no rockets in his ass
cerulean ice
justmonkthings
monke things
cerulean ice
fr tho; looking at how advanced technology in the ow universe, it might be possible for a robot to float
this is to make him appear more "monk"
or not
because he has yellow god hands
it could be a spritual monk thing though, again
but idk how a robot could do that
peak escarp
we don't know if he can actually float
we haven't seen him in the lore
and if he does, it's probably similar to the hovercars
drowsy dome
i will say seeing like the emote of him standing, is kind of freaky since we are so used to seeing him float
cerulean ice
zen only appeared for a second in a cinematic and he floats
one emote of zen lowers his feet down and "stretches" like an old man; joke
lament prawn
he can float
drowsy dome
i mean in game we always see him float
lament prawn
yes, but this is from a cutscene (OW2 gameplay trailer)
which makes it canon
and honestly even without this cutscene, i highly doubt they'd make him stand by default when we're so used to seeing him float
it'd be too distracting if the scene is meant to be taken seriously
worthy rose
What percentage of genji is robotic? Because I remember him showing a part of his face to Hanzo in that dragons cinematic
young knoll
a pretty large amount, I can't post things here but there is a sketch online of it
looks like at least 50% or so
probably more
worthy rose
Ohh ok
peak escarp
young knoll
there we go
worthy rose
Ohhh
swift mason
Did you make that chart yourself Doc?
peak escarp
no, I found it on Tumblr
worthy rose
They should put in a magnetic hero :v a lot of metal on these heroes
swift mason
How would it work?
swift mason
If you count Zarya's gravity as a magnet, then we kinda got that covered already
worthy rose
Yeah :v
There's probably some better ideas you could put in
Excited to see future heroes and their gimmicks
swift mason
It's still an interesting idea, maybe a hero that takes some health of an enemy and adds it to themselves or something
worthy rose
Sounds cool
Maybe a friendly cc ability where you can deploy a boop device for teammates to utilize for enhanced movement
swift mason
Like the hero's gadget would be to magnetise some armour or shields from a shielded/armour hero and add it to themselves
worthy rose
Good idea!
swift mason
Low on health and reinhardt is coming towards you? Yoink some of his armour for yourself
worthy rose
Maybe even a quick root type ability that shuts down a players momentum instantly
young knoll
this is not really lore related
swift mason
Yeah your right, sorry
worthy rose
:0 sorry
swift mason
Ok I have lore questions: In Honor and Glory, as reinhardt is exiting the castle after saying goodbye to his friend, how does he end up at first point to protect the soldiers if he exited the way of the 3rd defender's spawn?
young knoll
iirc, Doctor_Six mentioned that some aspects of that short were inaccurate
having some "teleporty" type situations
peak escarp
they take liberties with the layout of the map to suit the story
swift mason
Ahh I see
lament prawn
the way they've went about maps over time tells me that the layout of maps is very flexible and the way we see them in-game isnt necessarily canon in every little aspect
primarily the honor and glory thing and the way they easily rework maps
like the overall aesthetic, location, landmarks, etc of a map are canon, but maybe not every single flank route or pathway etc
cosmic crest
I don't think it really matters. It's not like we are going to see the majority of maps in vivid detail anyway.
lament prawn
true
i just mean the layout of maps we see in pvp is, above all else, designed for competitive and might not be shown exactly as it is in canon
just like how some heroes' abilities work differently in-game (or straight up dont exist in the lore)
lament prawn
idk what you mean by "Not a primarily lore needed game", but what i mean is they're doing things in a way where the lore wont hold back the pvp gameplay, and the pvp gameplay wont hold back the lore, so there can be inconsistencies between the two
cosmic crest
@dry portal I'd disagree with that.
peak escarp
every game needs lore, or else you'd never know the point of the game
worthy rose
@peak escarp Fortnite has no lore
peak escarp
didn't they recently have a big story event where a black hole opened on the map?
valid terrace
Fortnite does have lore
It’s just the standard amount for a battle royale
Imo you could probably learn it all in around 30 minutes
Overwatch has roughly 3 hours worth imo
Book not included
lament prawn
it would probably take me 3 hours to get through just the cinematic shorts and short stories
but im a slow reader
cosmic crest
Weird how all 3 short stories so far have focussed on support heroes.
valid terrace
Their lore is often less visual so they probably got passed for cinematics
Excluding Baptiste who was new when his came out
cosmic crest
I hope Sym gets a short story.
valid terrace
Hanzo
lament prawn
i'd like any sym lore, but she's got a lot of visual/cinematic potential
with what she can do
cosmic crest
I was expecting them to make a Lucio short were he and Symmetra fight but that never happened.
valid terrace
They haven’t met as of yet, but they might in ow2
lament prawn
lucio fighting sym would be the most choreographed/dance-y/rhythmic fight ever
lament prawn
yeah, i'd love that
valid terrace
It would probably be something like Lucio getting mad at her and starting crap and then they both kind of recognize each other after trading blows
Sort of like Dragons
pliant sparrow
Why would them recognising each other stop the fight?
cosmic crest
I figured Lucio would just win.
valid terrace
No I mean they would understand each others points of view
valid terrace
Neither of them are bad they just disagree heavily on what’s best for society
It would almost certainly stalemate or shift to fighting something bigger
cosmic crest
I think Symmetra is more powerful but the short would likely centre around Lucio.
valid terrace
He wears pants
cosmic crest
Were is a mod when you need one.
valid terrace
We’ve never seen his monkey rump as an adult afaik 
pliant sparrow
!!shitposting
twilit nacelleBOT
Shitposting will result in a loss of access.
worthy rose
Would you guys rather live in the Overwatch world or the real world?
young knoll
probably the one without an entirely different human level species that hates us
worthy rose
But they have great technology and who cares what the omnic thinks.Nobody cares about them
young knoll
yeah, there was no Omnic Crisis or anything
Overwatch doesn't exist in their universe as a result
how ridiculous would that be
worthy rose
Yeah I guess.The real world sucks ass but at least were not at war with a bunch of killer robots and terrorists
clever zephyr
^
solar pagoda
!shitposting
echo pier
LOL
cerulean ice
as much as you want powers or shit overwatch universe is way worse than ours lol
worthy rose
If Overwatch had no omnic crisis or wars though I think I would prefer living there than irl because rl is garbage lol
sharp epoch
yeah same
valid terrace
It’s basically just living in 2070
Instead of 2020
So yeah it would be better barring all the known issues
hushed jetty
If Overwatch had no Omnic Crisis, it wouldn't really be Overwatch
It's just being in the future at that point
dapper patrol
well i think the omnic crisis is the whole reason how most of the ow world is shaped.
if you think about it most of the cool advancement in tech is partly due to the whole omnic thing
anything from the quick vishkar light tech development (anti omnic research weaponary?) to well even some of the medical tech comes from the need to treat vics from the crisis
peak escarp
Doomfist does have a point
"only through conflict do we evolve"
how many inventions have come out of necessity during wartime?
young knoll
well, not only, but faster usually. and there is the problem of "what if the omnics kill us all"
peak escarp
conflict is a great motivator
tawny stag
I think torb is a god 🤔
flint magnet
Torb = Hephaestus confirmed?
= 
cerulean ice
..
worthy rose
@tawny stag No Reaper is a god
worthy rose
Nah hes now an undead wraith and is above humanity
drowsy dome
but is he a human now since he's 'dead'
worthy rose
Who transcended above humanity and became god
tawny stag
Why Shymada can summon dragons ?? That make no sens....
hushed jetty
It's never actually been explained. They've stated it's not magic, so maybe it's hardlight?
worthy rose
Maybe its spiritual power or something
dry portal
Hardlight prolly, maybe some kinda of implant that comes from their tattoos
tawny stag
Spiritual power...
dry portal
Hanzo’s tattoos usually light up whenever he uses the dragons
peak escarp
there is no magic in Overwatch
hushed jetty
Hardlight would make the most sense, unless there's something else we just haven't been told yet.
frosty shell
However, in the eugenics sense, conflict isn't really always a good thing
Allowing more people to live creates more genetic diversity
which makes people more adaptible
young knoll
what do you mean eugenics, that doesn't work
eugenics cultivates specific traits
like making dog breeds
frosty shell
I mean that the principle of eugenics is that killing off the weak is necessary
but that doesn't really work
eugenics isn't breeding dogs
young knoll
it accomplishes a similar thing
like when you select for "desirable" traits, you end up creating "specialized" people
like creating dog breeds
originally, eugenics was popular because people thought you could create "super men"
that is not the case
you can't get a race of blonde haired blue eyed olympians with genius iq and perfect immune systems
doesn't work that way
young knoll
there are trade offs when it comes to biology
you need tech augmentations for the real good stuff
more brain power takes away from other areas
more muscle power takes away from other areas
valid terrace
Not necessarily, it’s just the size of them that drains resources
Someone taking out trash still needs the same nutrients as someone building rockets
iron plume
That's not why eugenics didn't work
valid terrace
It’s a moral thing mostly
iron plume
It was based on racism and pseudoscience, not any actual biology
iron plume
more brain power takes away from other areas
more muscle power takes away from other areas
This isn't correct
valid terrace
You just need more fuel if you are a creature with a large brain and body
iron plume
That, plus our brains don't actually differ that much in how much power they spend
valid terrace
I just mean biologically across species
iron plume
The difference between the "thinking" parts of the most accomplished genius and a random dumbass is absolutely dwarfed by the energy the brain spends on just keeping the body running
young knoll
it isn't energy that is the difference, but there is a difference in resources used. I need to look more, but I believe it has something to do with gray matter
iron plume
it does
however a "smarter" brain doesn't use more energy
at least to any meaningful extent
young knoll
I don't think I specified energy
iron plume
what else is there to "take away from other areas"
young knoll
resources like "building materials"
oxygen, etc.
might also be negligible though
anyway, how did this topic arise?
this seems like it has gone off course
valid terrace
Back to eugenics, most places are already using it in a rudimentary sense, preventing fetal illnesses or screening for defects which unfortunately lead to a higher termination rate. We are already genetically choosing what kinds of children will be born.
The next step is blocking negative traits from carrying over, preventing a majority of birth defects
iron plume
That will not have unforseen consequences
valid terrace
Eventually we choose from every trait and create designer babies and then super babies
Of course
There is a massive ethics debate on whether or not these practices should be advanced
But they are perfectly doable given time
The world I see as the outcome would be Brave New World
Where humans are created in factories designed for whatever position needs to be filled
young knoll
how was this related to the original topic again?
young knoll
ah yes
iron plume
Alex was talking about how Doomfist's coflict plan was a bad idea and then you went off about eugenics
young knoll
I asked him what it had to do with that because it doesn't work
I do not think I "went off"
a question I have had for a while: considering how Roadhog uses both a shotgun and hook with some skill, is there a good reason to think that he might be ambidextrous?
just a curiosity I have had
dry portal
i'm assuming he's a self taught ambidextrous
pliant sparrow
Fair reasoning
dry portal
he prolly has alot of practice, you'd need to to wield a giant hook
cosmic crest
I mean, pretty much 100% of fps characters are right handed.
young knoll
well sure, but his usage of the hook presumably requires some skill with his left hand
I mean, he could still be right handed and just really good with the hook
that is why I am curious
young knoll
only right as far as I know
drowsy dome
oh i should have read your previous one close,
yea maybe he had to practice alot with the hook?
dry portal
is the thing on roadhogs back another gun?
young knoll
I have looked a bit right now, and, supposedly, that was supposed to be the gun that was used for whole hog, but they abandoned the concept
so, if that is true, then yes
it does not appear to be a melee weapon, at the very least
if he did use it, however, the way it is facing suggests to me that he would grab it with his right hand
drowsy dome
what does Hog drink to restore his heal though?
young knoll
he does not drink it
it is a gas, called hogdrogen
it is actually for radiation, not for healing, but game mechanics
drowsy dome
the radiation makes so much more sense, this whole time i thought he drank gas
drowsy dome
i know you cant drink gas but i dont know with hog
young knoll
what I mean is that you cannot drink a gas, and I am under the impression you mean "gasoline"
drowsy dome
yea gasoline
hot merlin
judged by the words on the can, im pretty sure its gas
drowsy dome
ok, i dont know that much about roadhog
dry portal
I wonder if junkrat and roadhog made their own gear
drowsy dome
he's from Australia too right? since he helped fight against the Omnium (roadhog)
i would think they do, becuase in that little room outside the enemy spawn in Junkertown, Junkrat has a ton of things he works on
dry portal
yeah he does a lot of tinkering
young knoll
it is confirmed that I have seen that Junkrat built the riptire
drowsy dome
so i would think he would atleast repair his own things... i dont see roadhog letting Junkrat make things for him (that's the vibe i get)
young knoll
I believe he at least makes his own explosives
limpid agate
it is confirmed that I have seen that Junkrat built the riptire
@young knoll It is not confirmed that you have seen that.
He does, however, make his own explosives.
peak escarp
I believe it was mentioned during an art stream prior to Wrecking Ball's release
young knoll
I believe that I worded that poorly, but there was a statement by Arnold Tsang
which I guess may not be canon technically
limpid agate
Like I said, you have not seen that.
peak escarp
they said Junkrat was inspired by WB and based the rip tire off him
limpid agate
Junkrat did make the tire, as well as his whole arsenal more or less
But we haven't seen it like we've seen Wrecking Ball or Orisa being built.
young knoll
that is why I said that I worded it poorly
more accurately, there is a statement that I was aware of that states that he built it
peak escarp
that brings up an interesting discussion topic - which heroes make their own gear, and which have it made for them/made by someone else
drowsy dome
do you think Roadhog does?
peak escarp
he gets his hogdrogen canisters from Bruce, and I think there's a filling station in his house
young knoll
there is, next to the claw machine
peak escarp
don't know about the scrap gun though
drowsy dome
i imagine Brigette does cause she's like her father and maybe fixes Reinhardt's things
peak escarp
Brigitte, Mercy, Baptiste have all been confirmed to make their own gear
Lucio modified his from his father's tech
Torbjorn made Ana's rifle using Mercy's tech
Torbjorn probably makes his own gear
cosmic crest
Sombra likely made her hacking device.
She stole the translocator, but they are disposable so I assume she has to make more despite not designing them.
limpid agate
I made a list once upon a time, 1 sec.
drowsy dome
i wouldnt imaine Torbs using anyone elses gear
cosmic crest
She may have stolen the plans for the translocator.
limpid agate
Heroes who made all their own gear:
Brigitte, Junkrat, Mei, Mercy, Moira, Sombra, Torbjorn, Winston, Hammond
Heroes who made or modified some of their own gear:
Baptiste, D.Va, Lucio
Moira didn't invent the biotic tech and Sombra didn't invent the chronal anchor... But Winston didn't invent shield generators and Junkrat didn't invent explosives.
So I would put them in the all category
young knoll
makes sense
drowsy dome
wait winston didn't make his shield generator?
limpid agate
He did
dry portal
no he did
limpid agate
But he didn't invent shield technology
iron plume
Winston didn't make shield generators in general
limpid agate
That's been around since before he was born
drowsy dome
oh ok ok
young knoll
how long has shield technology existed in the Overwatch world?
not sure where to look for this exactly
definitely more than 20 years
drowsy dome
had to have been for awhile cause the omnics use something similar correct?
iron plume
The Crusaders did in the omnic crisis
young knoll
did they have it at the very beginning?
drowsy dome
do you think they helped create it for their sheilds?
young knoll
if so, it is at least 30 years old
limpid agate
The oldest we have seen was the Crusaders. So its more than 30 years old
cosmic crest
I think Vishkar created the technology and it would go on to be used in various militaries.
cosmic crest
The barriers are made of hard light.
pliant sparrow
Ik
limpid agate
We don't know how old Vishkar is either. Their earliest mention chronologically is them adopting Symmetra.
Which is after they were already a big deal
pliant sparrow
Still find it strange that we haven't seen a hard light suit
limpid agate
Just like how Talon's earliest mention is Gerard being in charge of anti-Talon operations
pliant sparrow
It seems perfect for it
cosmic crest
Hard light suit?
pliant sparrow
Like a mech almost
But made of hardlight
Meaning it can be warped into different shapes
pliant sparrow
I wonder how barriers absorb and dissipate energy
Considering in honor and glory the seemed to be pushed back a bit by the onslaught when the shields got low
As in, what their limit when it comes to taking punishment is
cosmic crest
I'm pretty sure the entire concept of hard light spits in the face of real science.
But it would be interesting to hear the pseudo-science behind it.
pliant sparrow
Hard light is a theorized possibility
But nothing close to what's in overwatch yeah
cosmic crest
Symmetra's photon projector has kind of a silly name if you think about it. A normal projector is technically a photon projector.
pliant sparrow
Hmm
young knoll
I would assume it is . . . a lot of photons
pliant sparrow
Isn't it photon barrier?
cosmic crest
That's her ult.
pliant sparrow
Oh wait is this her gun
cosmic crest
And a lot of photons just means a lot of light.
pliant sparrow
If they're making light solid that's gonna be trillions of photons
unborn owl
Or it's amplifying the size of the photons. That might be what allows the photons to develop resistance.
young knoll
that would be . . . much more difficult to do than any of the other stuff that exists in OW
cosmic crest
I don't think that's how light works.
young knoll
well, light also can't shield you from bullets and plasma with no discernable knockback, but eh
pliant sparrow
You can't make photons bigger like that
spring solar
i mean hard light is just make believe science for the purpose of making a cool video game weapon
spring solar
man idk science to respond to that, but like who knows what cool shit can be made in the future
pliant sparrow
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
unborn owl
dammit jim i'm a writer not a quantum physicist
hushed jetty
How many bases of operation does Talon have? I know about the one in Rome, but are there any others we know about?
peak escarp
Venice
drowsy dome
I think there is one around Numbani?
and isn't the university run by Talon (the one in Oasis where Moira works)
cosmic crest
I don't think so.
civic spear
ornate wigeon
I mean he does have a backstory just not a short lol
worthy rose
Fortnite
peak escarp
@drowsy dome Oasis is not associated with Talon
it's run by a collective of scientists trying to make a technocracy that isn't held back by laws and regulations
Oasis is one of the world's most advanced cities, a shining jewel rising from the Arabian Desert. A monument to human ingenuity and invention, researchers and academics from around the region came together to found a city dedicated to scientific progress without restraints. The city and its inhabitants are governed by the Ministries, a collection of brilliant minds who possess many secrets that have attracted the interest of powerful organizations from around the world.
is technocracy the right word?
young knoll
what is your intention to say?
I suppose it would be a technocracy in this case given the information you have shown
peak escarp
meaning ruled by scientists and doctors
young knoll
I think so
the definition I know is "rule by technical experts", which I think is basically the case here
peak escarp
yeah
young knoll
generally not the best way to run society, but I get the idea
peak escarp
it is if you want to get science done
young knoll
I suppose so
I guess if the society is a small scale one
I do wonder how the running of Oasis must look
peak escarp
I wonder if they know about Moira's Talon connection
(they probably don't care, if they do)
young knoll
I doubt it
still
there must be some restraints
else what would the governance be for? you could just have normal administrators for the normal running of the place
peak escarp
they probably say "as long as you don't cause trouble, we don't care"
swift mason
Do you think winston has visited Oasis on his time on earth?
peak escarp
we don't know how long Oasis has been around
young knoll
even with hard light, I doubt it could just easily spring into existence
likely they would have at least contacted him at some point
I doubt if he knew all the details he would want to go though
peak escarp
can't be that old though, based on the level of technology seen there
swift mason
He does has a voiceline that says "you wouldn't believe all the science that gets done here"
young knoll
what do you mean it can't be that old?
hard light has existed for years at this point
I doubt it should be that hard to makes some changes
I mean, I guess it likely isn't centuries old or whatever
peak escarp
I mean Overwatch is only 60ish years in the future
I doubt it's more than 30 years old
young knoll
so you mean compared to like, New York or Berlin?
cosmic crest
If there is one thing we know for sure about Oasis, it's that it has some very out there fashion trends as seen through Moira and Symmetra's skins.
peak escarp
it is most likely post-Crisis
peak escarp
building Oasis was only possible due to "cutting-edge" technology that allowed them to sustain the city in a desert
that makes me think it was built rather recently
young knoll
cutting-edge compared to present day for the timeline?
peak escarp
yes
hushed jetty
I think, considering how many characters Baptiste probably knows, he has far too few interactions
Even if he hasn't met all of the Talon members, there could still be some interesting conversations from that. He doesn't even talk to Sombra and he's confirmed to be friends with her
peak escarp
there's probably logistical reasons we haven't gotten interactions for heroes since Brigitte
dry portal
I thought sigma had a bunch of interactions\
young knoll
he has a few
hushed jetty
I think they're all incomplete though
peak escarp
yeah
they're all one sided - they don't have responses
WB has a few interactions (with Winston, Sombra and I think Tracer?)
Baptiste has 2 with Mercy that are almost the same, one that he starts and one that Mercy starts
hushed jetty
I find it strange how the literal hamster has more interactions than Baptiste
peak escarp
Ashe has a bunch with McCree but none with anyone else (recorded when they had the VAs together to record Reunion)
the last hero to get a full set of interactions was Brigitte
dry portal
I wonder why that is
young knoll
OW2 was probably already in the works if I had to guess
peak escarp
maybe
hushed jetty
If Baptiste at least had more unique kill quotes I'd be okay, but the only one he has is for Talon members in general
He straight up just doesn't say anything to anyone
peak escarp
he's got some map/pregame interactions, all the new heroes do
just not any that interact with other heroes
void gulch
I like when they say quotes about their past when they kill people
limpid grail
Baptiste only has one with mercy and that is it
cerulean ice
the shields/barrier were looking at are hard light or no?
cosmic crest
What?
If you are asking if the barriers are made of hard light then yes.
cerulean ice
i thought it was exclusive to the vishkar, so its actually just a common technology
cerulean ice
its only been stated that its heavily used by vishkar; wikia
pliant sparrow
Which is neither a confirmation or a denial
earnest epoch
worthy rose
“Gayreinhardt”
cerulean ice
shitposts arent allowed here if i remember
worthy rose
Yeah ^
peak escarp
hard light is not exclusive to Vishkar
cosmic crest
Vishkar are definitely the most proficient users of hard light, it would make sense if they invented it.
That doesn't mean others can't use it though.
valid terrace
It seems like they filled the void left by Omnica, unless they were rivals before the crisis
I’m also of the head-canon that the crisis was started by Omnica out of spite or fear, giving the omnics the directive to survive by any means, so they tried to protect themselves aggressively, and when that failed they mimicked humans to avoid annihilation
It would fill in the gaps of how and why the omnics went through such drastic changes of character
cosmic crest
I don't see how they could be rivals. Omnica was a robotics company whereas Vishkar specialises in architecture and creating buildings/city's.
valid terrace
They were both competing for territory where they ‘help’ people
Both companies relied on large-scale contracts where they could apply their technology
But we don’t know if Vishkar was created after the crisis or not
The war torn areas would be very ideal for the company most likely
As well as the main company in that category that had gone defunct
wary bluff
ali a intro links with overwatch
wary bluff
olive escarp
wary bluff
valid terrace
!!LoreOnly
twilit nacelleBOT
This channel is for serious discussion strictly related to the lore of Overwatch. Shitposting will result in a loss of access.
olive escarp
@valid terrace its what my friend said to me and i dont play overwatch but wont to play
wary bluff
thats a not nice word
olive escarp
OK S0ORY
wary bluff
yo did u watch the junkrat origin video @olive escarp
olive escarp
yea there backstory is sad
wary bluff
yeah ik the meany beany threw them out
olive escarp
i thought it was ash
olive escarp
what
wary bluff
ur weird
olive escarp
messed up that was for my fanfic
wary bluff
that has nothin to do with lore u poop poster
tepid abyss
keep it on topic
wary bluff
soz hes weird
olive escarp
sorry
valid terrace
That was junkerqueen
Not Ashe
She had several reasons to kick them out
Namely that junkrat was a menace even to their society
hushed jetty
Junkrat was just too chaotic to let him stay there, and I'm assuming they kicked Roadhog out because of affiliation with him
peak escarp
Roadhog also has history with the Queen
limpid agate
Junkrat and Roadhog did do something that got them kicked out, but they had a long record before that too.
They weren't innocent before getting evicted
peak escarp
frigid stirrup
Hanzo has nothing to do with Overwatch, right?
peak escarp
nope
frigid stirrup
Will we ever see the day when he does?
peak escarp
maybe
pine bloom
There is a voice line in game where Doomfist invites Hanzo to join Talon but Hanzo rejects the offer. So we know he probably won’t join Talon but is looking for a place in the Overwatch world
hushed jetty
I don't think he'd join Overwatch either, though. Mostly because Genji is there, and from the in-game voice lines and how we saw them interact in Dragons, they're still tense
And even if we ignore that, I don't think he'd accept an invitation to Overwatch. I just can't see it happening
proven knoll
Did moira go from blackwatch to talon aswell as gabriel?
peak escarp
yes
limpid agate
@lunar olive No advertising
Especially not here
If you want to plug Overwatch related Videos or Streams, use #video-content
arctic loom
so are we getting something on gamescom
taiga?
gamescom start this week
and blizzard going be on it
drowsy dome
i wonder if they are going to hold back on announcing stuff until maybe the week of Blizzcon? like i know they are not holding it this year but they might have a showcase online?
peak escarp
yeah, the wait is tough
young knoll
hopefully the wait will have been worth it
drowsy dome
i hope we get alot of things soon
peak escarp
I don't see the harm in preordering games
drowsy dome
you get cool preorder bonuses sometimes
peak escarp
if it's a popular game, I'll preorder to make sure I get a copy
don't want to show up and find out they're sold out
drowsy dome
the preorder one? @arctic loom
peak escarp
or have to buy digital
arctic loom
yes
young knoll
well, it isn't universally bad, but in general, there is evidence that pre-ordering incentivizes companies to worse business practices
drowsy dome
oh that sucks im sorry
arctic loom
at least i have origins skins
drowsy dome
i will say this, from working at a certain video gaming store and still talk to people that work there. with how things are going now a days, if you dont preorder the game sometimes you wont get a copy.
young knoll
personally I would just wait, given experiences I have had, but I suppose to each their own
drowsy dome
with recent titles that have released, there hasnt been reshipments of them at all. so with a popular game like OW i would just play it safe
fringe blade
i have sworn to never pre-order any game in my life unless its made by CD Projekt Red
young knoll
they might possibly be an exception
worthy rose
What if Ashe got bob to rip off mccrees arm cause he had a deadlock tattoo?
cerulean ice
what
worthy rose
In the short she says something along the lines of getting bob to rip off his other arm
The arm that got ripped off or “amputated” had a deadlock tattoo on it
Pretty big coincidence
cerulean ice
no
its been confirmed that its not bob
lemme find it
the woman who replied was formely a writer for ow lore
worthy rose
Just a coincidence then
drowsy dome
@fringe blade will we be ever getting cyberpunk? lol i'm getting tired of it getting pushed back more and more
i think ashe just said that to say it, she wanted to prove a point
peak escarp
I think it might have been a rival gang
it's probably no coincidence that the arm he lost was the one with the tattoo the the wrong date on it
drowsy dome
you know i never thought of that being the reason he lost it
peak escarp
my theory on the tattoo is that he found a gang logo he liked and just used it, founding date and all
then Ashe sees it and wisely changes it so it's not exactly the same
because obviously, the Deadlock Gang was not founded in 1976
if the present day is some time in the 2070s and Ashe (39) and McCree (37) are founding members
also the version with the date and eyepatch are only ever seen on McCree, on his tattoo (Blackwatch and Deadlock) and jacket (Deadlock)
drowsy dome
ok, i can get behind that theory. I never noticed that McCree had a totally different logo on his jacket. I thought it was the same as Ashe's.
peak escarp
at first I thought it was a mistake, like an artist used old assets for the tattoo on the Blackwatch skin
but then Deadlock came out
pliant sparrow
Did blackwatch cree have his arm
drowsy dome
So when do you think he left Blackwatch, cause I was thinking since he got so angry over the events in Venice that it was after that but he was in London during the uprising and Did Reyes send him out to help find and recover Ana's body?
peak escarp
Reyes did send McCree to look for her
But as Overwatch's influence waned, rogue elements within Blackwatch sought to bring down the organization and turn it to their own ends. Wanting no part of the infighting, McCree set off alone and went underground.
McCree left due to infighting and not wanting to have to pick a side
probably the tension between Gabe and Jack boiled over and McCree couldn't choose between them
cosmic crest
McCree can be a bit of a goof. I can see him using some random logo just because it looks cool.
drowsy dome
did Genji also leave for the same reasons or was it that he wanted revenge mostly?
peak escarp
Genji left because he wasn't at peace with his own body
being cyberized left him with pretty bad body dysmorphia
But as time passed, Genji felt increasingly at war with himself. He was repulsed by the mechanical parts of his body and could not come to grips with what he had become. When his mission was complete, he abandoned Overwatch and wandered the world in search of meaning.
cosmic crest
Couldn't have been that long before Overwatch fell.
peak escarp
my guess is after fighting getting wrecked by Doomfist
drowsy dome
i bet getting punched into a car would make anyone upset
peak escarp
getting beaten like that would be a big blow, and he'd probably blame it on his body
fringe blade
its kinda funny how many people thought it was bob who took of McCree's arm
just cause one of Ashe's phrases was poorly worded
subtle geyser
welp looks like world of warcraft got the animated series, wouldnt be surprised if they announced something similar for overwatch at blizzcon too then :D
cosmic crest
It would have made perfect sense if Bob took off McCree's arm. But instead Blizzard debunked it and created another lose end to add to the mountain sized pile of loose ends we already have.
drowsy dome
Bob would only have a chance to take McCree's arm if he went around that area after OW fall, and by how shocked Ashe looked to see him once again, I don't think McCree has seen them in some time
fringe blade
Bob taking off McCree's arm makes the least sense
weary owl
I couldnt neccissrily sed bob taking mccrees arm considering in the animated short when ashe and mccree fought mccree didnt have the intention of actually fighting he just wanted a single crate and says that ashe can have the rest like ashe and mccree are still cool with eachother till she doesnt give the crate and thats why they fight i would imagine that mccree would end up instantly fighting ashe just because if bob took mccrees arm
olive escarp
honestly ash hired widow to kill zen once i think cause he stole bob
and found about echo when paying widow
after reapers mission
young knoll
what are you talking about
olive escarp
my theroy
young knoll
it is not correct
zen was not killed, nor did he steal bob, nor did ashe ever hire widow
olive escarp
sorry man i think it is or how would ash know its special cargo
olive escarp
never said he died
young knoll
why would she pay widow if widow had not succeeded? that makes no sense
olive escarp
i think the only way we can decide if flex tape breaks i say no and u say yes i am right ha
for charge
young knoll
weren't you warned not to shitpost previously?
olive escarp
no
cosmic crest
Oh, ok your a shitposter. For a moment I thought you genuinely thought that nonsense.
olive escarp
its my theroy
young knoll
you were yesterday
peak escarp
Ashe didn't know what was in the special cargo
she was robbing the train because it was full of weapons
cosmic crest
I think they know.
round frost
How do Nerf some buffs contribute to overwatch lore
hushed jetty
The in-game abilities shouldn't really be taken as canon.
ex. Zenyatta's orbs don't even exist. They're supposed to represent his ability to use words or something
iron plume
There's probably more than just words, considering his dialogue with Mercy
But it's not like a hanging orb on a person
But more to the point, the exact way things work/interact and their strength in game don't affect (and aren't affected by) canon
cosmic crest
I don't think there is an ability that is strictly non-cannon. But there are a few that don't behave the same way as they do in game i.e. Mercy's resurrect.
valid terrace
There’s a few that probably don’t exist
Like I hope Molten Core isn’t real for Torb’s organ’s sake
cosmic crest
That's just a highlight intro. The ability could easily be real.
valid terrace
Which part of it
Where he turns orange hopefully not
Where he shoots lava possibly
When his turret takes potg probably
dry portal
I wonder if Hanzo’s storm arrows are real
cosmic crest
Could just be the visuals of it, like how Winston turns red during primal rage.
As for Hanzo's storm arrows, they are no more unlikely than his dragon strike which we already know is cannon.
cosmic crest
Reaper souls were removed ages ago.
valid terrace
Well yeah but they were in the live game for a good while
Also they might be the same model as the orbs but different colors
cosmic crest
You mean Moira's orbs?
valid terrace
Yeah
cosmic crest
Fairly certain that's not true.
valid terrace
Damn
cosmic crest
People would notice.
Reaper's self healing is likely the same as Moira's in that they both leach off of their enemies, which makes sense since they both have the same genetic modifications.
valid terrace
Idk there was a decent gap where neither ability existed iirc
I think she came after they were removed but don’t care to check
Mercy souls are also similar
cosmic crest
It doesn't really matter, they aren't in the game anymore.
valid terrace
True I was just arguing that not all abilities are canon
Which we do know is true in regards to discord
limpid agate
A lot of abilities are non canon, or have non-canon visuals
McCree doesn't glow when he focuses his shots
peak escarp
so far there has only been one new ability in the game that is reflected in the lore, and that's Bastion's Ironclad passive
when Torbjorn took it in, he fixed it up and gave it new armor
cosmic crest
If whether or not an ability is cannon is determined by if it has appeared in a piece of media, then most of them aren't cannon.
My argument is that there is nothing to say that they aren't cannon either.
young knoll
what do you mean by new ability, Doctor_Six?
an ability derived from lore that did not exist until mentioned in the comic?
cosmic crest
I think she means new abilities that were given to existing heroes. Like D.va's micro missiles or Symmetra's photon barrier.
hushed jetty
we've also seen Reaper's wraith form, or at least something that looks a lot like the in-game version
And Sombra's hack
cosmic crest
I mean... those are their signature abilities, there is no reason why they wouldn't have them.
hushed jetty
...okay that's fair enfsljkls
peak escarp
I mean an ability that is given a lore explanation
knotty owl
That’s when I knew I broke my leg 😔
peak escarp
we never saw D.Va in the lore before she had micro missiles, so she essentially always had them
limpid agate
we never saw D.Va in the lore before she had micro missiles, so she essentially always had them
Binary came after Ironclad too.
So with that argument, Ironclad wouldn't count either.
peak escarp
I just mean that Ironclad was specifically mentioned as having a story behind it
naive iris
Genjis dragon is cool
hushed jetty
I have heard that, after the events of WYLB, Mauga apparently went missing. This is supposed to be info from some tweet, but the post I saw didn't link it or anything
Is this actually a canon thing?
opaque tundra
If it's not from a reliable source than chances are it's not
peak escarp
in the story he gets blown up and Baptiste doesn't see him again
fringe blade
I'm curious to see how they go about handling Mauga and his story
And his involvement in the lore
stiff hamlet
Anyone know what happened to Repaer's gun bombs? In the cinematic that took plac ein the museum, he had explosives that were shot from the bottom of his guns.
peak escarp
they were an early ability idea that got dropped
fading coyote
Reaper take showers?
cerulean ice
?
fading coyote
What? I always have this question
fading coyote
No, because he is smoke
And maybe he dont need washes themselft
If you are a smoke person you washes yourselft?
hushed jetty
He isn't literally made of smoke
He can become smoke but he also has a physical form
fading coyote
yes but i dont think when he comeback to a physical form, he will return with the same smell or stains
wintry saffron
WHERE IS ZEN LORE!
hushed jetty
i love how even zen's in-game interaction don't give us any lore
mercy: how does your healing work?
zen: wouldn't you like to know
peak escarp
but that does tell us that his healing isn't understood by scientists like Mercy
hushed jetty
true. which means it isn't the kind of biotic healing a lot of the supports in-game seem to use
limpid agate
It also tells us that he is capable of healing
Considering we know other things like Discord orb and Lucio's healing are not canon
peak escarp
I still think it's more like psychological/psychosomatic healing
limpid agate
His Moira interaction also suggests that he is mysterious in universe too
hushed jetty
also, how wide-spread is biotic healing technology? most of the supports use it (except Brig, Lucio, and Zen. I think) and Soldier uses it too... I think? Do we know how long it's been around?
limpid agate
Mercy invented it.
Moira adapted it from Mercy.
Ana/Soldier are using stolen Overwatch tech (which again, is directly from Mercy)
The only one that is left unexplained is Baptiste's usage of it
peak escarp
it was pioneered by Mercy, so it's been around <20 years
Baptiste got his weapons from various sources - black market, Talon, the Caribbean Coalition
so any one of them could have made it from the biotic tech
dry portal
Do you think Mercy patented the tech?
peak escarp
maybe
but she would want it to be widespread, to save more people
so it wouldn't be exclusive to her or Overwatch
keen osprey
anyone else wanna see more junk and roadhog
hushed jetty
i don't think the Caribbean Coalition got any tech from Overwatch, because Overwatch never came to Haiti. I would be pretty surprised if they had Mercy's biotic tech
grand wedge
We don't know how long it took her to develop this technology and how long they have used it
But clearly she wanted it so most people could have access to it - but Overwatch militarised the use of it
peak escarp
my recently published paper on nanobiotic healing. I believed that it had the potential
to completely revolutionize the way that medical care was given, not just in the
examination room, but also throughout the entire structure of the medical profession.
It was hard to be patient, and I’d believed that Overwatch offered me the opportunity
to rapidly get my ideas out there in a way no other organization could.```her paper on the the subject was what got Overwatch's attention
so she developed it before being recruited
although Overwatch helped it along
grand wedge
developed the idea, not the tech associated with it
peak escarp
but she also wants it to be used in medicine everywhere, not just in Overwatch
so it's likely that it would become more widespread
grand wedge
but was it that widespread really?
“Not quite,” I said, feeling the momentary pang of disappointment that a technology that could have revolutionized healing around the world was basically unknown to most.
"that could have revolutionised" , it implies that her wish to have it accessible to most people wasn't granted, and that Overwatch (or military) kept it for themselves?
peak escarp
maybe
grand wedge
That's how i interpreted it - I may be wrong tho, or not quite right - it could be only used it some special wound treatment or critical condition, and not just for any wound/disease
peak escarp
if that is the case, then Baptiste could have still gotten it through Talon (former Overwatch defectors or moles) or the black market
grand wedge
yup
cosmic crest
Moira has access to it. It would make sense that she give Talon access to it as well.
hushed jetty
yeah, that's more or less what I was thinking. That he got it from Talon
knotty nimbus
I really hope reaper turns good in overwatch 2. Or even any talon hero.
peak escarp
Baptiste
hushed jetty
If anyone in Talon gets a redemption arc, I think it should be Sigma or Widowmaker
Since them being in Talon in the first place was not their choice
peak escarp
Widowmaker would need a lot of work to be redeemed
Sigma just needs to be rescued, but nobody knows he's there
hushed jetty
That's true. I doubt reversing whatever they did to her would be easy
I think a Reaper redemption would also be pretty cool, but he would be pretty resistant to that as well
drowsy dome
so i dont know alot about sigma, is he really a bad person or just went crazy and being held by talon
peak escarp
and even if they did, she still killed a lot of people
she'd have to face justice for that
Sigma was a scientist who gained gravity powers from an experiment gone bad
the government locked him up because he couldn't control his powers
Talon stole him out and put him to work for them (and he figured out how to control his powers)
his mental state isn't exactly known
drowsy dome
thank you, he was the one character that i some how missed the lore on
hushed jetty
He doesn't have a huge amount of lore yet anyway, does he
Just his origin story and the few incomplete interactions we have
peak escarp
yeah
drowsy dome
back to the Widowmaker comment above, i get strong Winter Solider vibes from her and i wonder if they do, do a whole redemtion arc for her if they will follow the same lines as WS punishment. By saying it wasn't really her, and put her to work with, in this case Overwatch? just a idea
peak escarp
I doubt it
fringe blade
I hope we don't have that
peak escarp
I don't think Overwatch would want to work with her
drowsy dome
it was an idea lol, i dont think people like Tracer and Winston would ever let her in.
fringe blade
The whole 'bad guy becomes good again' is such an overused cliche
cosmic crest
@drowsy dome they should do something similar to that.
peak escarp
and she enjoys killing
hushed jetty
it would be weird but,,, i doubt overwatch would actually LET her work with them
fringe blade
Considering how many people she's killed, I doubt she can go back to a good conscience
drowsy dome
from what i see, i think she is fully aware of what she is doing anyways
cosmic crest
*Reconditioned
drowsy dome
even if she does get back to 'normal', i bet they cant get her emotions back
so nothing will stop her from killing again
peak escarp
she is fully aware of what she's doing, and appears to have free will (although she does follow orders)
fringe blade
I wonder if its possible to recondition a reconditioning
hushed jetty
i honestly think it would be less interesting if they completely fixed her
let evil people stay evil sometimes
cosmic crest
Widow clearly feels emotions, she was just made to believe she does not have them.
fringe blade
Like I said, the 'bad guy becomes good again' has become an annoyingly overused cliche
I think
peak escarp
if she were to leave Talon (big if), the only story I could see for her is her going rogue and doing her own assassinations
fringe blade
I agree with that
I can't imagine Overwatch ever wanting to associate with her
even indirectly
cosmic crest
I don't understand why there is so much opposition for this. It seems like the most logical direction for her stroy to go.
hushed jetty
i'm all for a redemption arc or two, i just don't think widowmaker would be a good target for such an arc
drowsy dome
in some cases where the story is based off a book or comic it's ok to over use it but with a game like OW let the evil stay evil
fringe blade
its not a logical direction though
reconditioned or not, she has become a cold blooded killer
her going to overwatch makes the least sense
peak escarp
if anyone is going to get a redemption arc, it'll be Hanzo
drowsy dome
i think for someone like Reaper it might be possible, idk since he is complely on that murder train now... but a few people i see in talon can be changed
cosmic crest
Widowmaker would be my first choice for a redemption arc because unlike all the other villains (besides Sigma) she didn't choose to become a killer.
drowsy dome
now hanzo arc would be super nice
fringe blade
Hanzo is 100% getting a redemption arc
hushed jetty
hanzo is absolutely getting a redemption arc. it would be weird if he didn't
fringe blade
Widow still has memories of her past life, even after the reconditioning, right?
peak escarp
yes
hushed jetty
i assume so
fringe blade
That's another reason
peak escarp
I think Widowmaker is too far gone for redemption
hushed jetty
in Reflections she visited Gerard's grave
drowsy dome
she remembers her husband and all
fringe blade
Even if they recondition her again, do you think she can go back to a normal life, seeing how many people she has killed?
Especially if she remembers what happened to her prior to her reconditioning
drowsy dome
theres no way she could
hushed jetty
Considering she killed her own husband, I doubt she'd even be willing to redeem herself
fringe blade
So I think that a redemption arc for Widow would make very little sense
Like Doc said, she's too far gone
drowsy dome
yea and if she did come back, she'd be placed in prison right away
fringe blade
We don't really know TOO much about the reconditioning (it might be possible to make her forget her past) but still
You can't just forget and forgive many senseless murders
cosmic crest
This is low key triggering me ngl.
fringe blade
why?
peak escarp
if there's any current Talon member I would expect to switch sides, it's Maximilien
fringe blade
Yea
peak escarp
the OW2 trailer indicates that he's having second thoughts
fringe blade
I mean, I am not sure if they will have another Talon agent switching sides
We had the Bap story arc recently
hushed jetty
Maximilien I would understand
peak escarp
he could go to Overwatch to help them stop Null Sector
drowsy dome
like even if Reaper was to switch he would be in the same boat as Widow, right into prison.
fringe blade
He could probably also help out Overwatch financially, right?
dry portal
I didn't think OW would trust a guy like Max
cosmic crest
Wouldn't you guys want to see her become a decent human again? That would actually be interesting. She was forced against her will to do terrible things, and you are saying we should pin the blame on her.
hushed jetty
Not that she's blamed, I would like to see it, but it wouldn't make much sense
fringe blade
i cant imagine her going back to a normal life
drowsy dome
i would like to see Max, switch sides something interesting to see.
fringe blade
just the guilt trips she would have would make her want to never know that what she did was wrong
dry portal
she's not blamed for it but I don't see a way for Widow to be redeemed at all rly
fringe blade
Making her have a conscience again would just be cruel
peak escarp
okay, so all the people she killed aren't her fault - she still did it, and still enjoys killing
drowsy dome
i mean if she does confess to all her killings she did not only kill her husband a repected overwatch member but also 'killed' ana
cosmic crest
@fringe blade That would be interesting and have potential for good writing.
peak escarp
she'll either get institutionalized or arrested
fringe blade
Overwatch kidnapping someone and making them miserable on purpose?
Yes, amazing writing
cosmic crest
What?
drowsy dome
she would go into a high security faculty, no way around that
cosmic crest
What does Overwatch have to do with anything?
fringe blade
If she has recollection of her past
Well, aren't you suggesting that Widow should switch back?
hushed jetty
It would be interesting, yes, but it wouldn't make sense
fringe blade
To a normal life?
cosmic crest
No
fringe blade
Wouldn't you guys want to see her become a decent human again?
cosmic crest
I didn't say normal life.
fringe blade
Define 'decent human' then
peak escarp
I don't think she can become a decent human again
fringe blade
She is so far gone from being a 'decent human' its not even funny
cosmic crest
Someone who feels remorse for their actions.
peak escarp
and if they did just somehow make her one, it would be bad writing
dry portal
I'm confused how that would be interesting, or make for good writing
fringe blade
There's a difference between 'remorse' and 'guilt'
You don't have to be remorseful to feel guilty
I can't see her becoming a 'decent human' without another round of reconditioning
This time, from Overwatch (or any other group on the other side)
peak escarp
exactly, she would need intense therapy
dry portal
would they even be able to fix her deaccelerated heart
fringe blade
And seeing how reconditioning doesn't seem to affect memory, forcing her to become 'good' again is cruel
drowsy dome
I wouldn't think so, she probably remain that way
fringe blade
Right now, she doesn't think of killing as something guilt inducing or just generally bad
She enjoys it
cosmic crest
We already know that she griefs for Gerard.
peak escarp
she just struggles to feel any positive emotions, outside of the pleasure she gets from killing
her interaction with Moira makes her sound frustrated at the inability to feel positive emotions
dry portal
Also do we know specifically who brainwashed her?
peak escarp
dry portal
or just some unnamed person or group from talon
fringe blade
i doubt it was one specific person
peak escarp
drowsy dome
i forget was it a revenge thing from talon after the events in retribution that Widow was taken?
fringe blade
Well, that doesn't necessarily mean positive emotions