I can't find the album
#lore-discussion
valid terrace
Saying that morals are an illusion doesn’t benefit anyone
silver garnet
Saying one side is right and the other is wrong is biased
valid terrace
Saying characters shouldn’t be punished for their actions is counterproductive for the channel
Because that’s not how that works
fathom tartan
All sides are equally wrong and right be quiet
limpid agate
It would not be a random ban. It would be a ban for derailing the channel.
We moved on.
peak escarp
@fathom tartan https://luciomusic.com
silver garnet
A ban for derailing the channel in a discussion that we all took part in?
valid terrace
You went against the grain and didn’t bring any facts or information
silver garnet
You said your point and then threatened the ban hammer how is that fair?
valid terrace
Just opinions
silver garnet
Are your facts not opinions?
I believe this is right and this is wrong is 100% opinion
fathom tartan
I meant the spotify link but it's okay I'll find it eventually
limpid agate
Then I will give you one more final warning. More than you deserve.
valid terrace
My facts are based on laws and societal moral code
limpid agate
Drop it.
peak escarp
oh, sorry I don't have spotify
limpid agate
And move on.
silver garnet
"societal moral code"
fathom tartan
It's fine
silver garnet
Alright im done
fathom tartan
What do you use
peak escarp
just iTunes
peak escarp
fathom tartan
Because green
peak escarp
just scroll down, you should see it
cold root
only one of those lucio songs is his in game healing song right? where are the others from?
limpid agate
And speed
peak escarp
it's his canon debut album
cold root
i have not found the speed one yet
peak escarp
first mentioned in his reveal article from 2015
limpid agate
Lucio's Synaesthesia World Tour: http://bit.ly/2flja2U
We Move Together As One is Speed
cold root
oh... found it.
fathom tartan
So is this his Christmas album or no
peak escarp
lol no
cold root
didnt recognise the first bit, half way through it is his speed boost
fathom tartan
They should release his Christmas music
Also I love the jazz from his jazz skin
What instruments dose lucio play actually
peak escarp
I find it funny how he was a musician, but didn't become internationally famous until after his successful rebellion
he's a DJ - I dont know if he actually plays any instruments
peak escarp
maybe
fathom tartan
He certainly doesn't cite any one else
peak escarp
most DJs just use a soundboard and music databases
peak escarp
he's more famous for his rebellion than for his music
fathom tartan
You don't get your own cereal by being most DJs
limpid agate
He's on cereal because he is a freedom fighter DJ
Not because he plays an instrument as a DJ
fathom tartan
The DJing really got him that cereal
limpid agate
!!loreHeroes lucio
twilit nacelleBOT
To learn more, please visit https://playoverwatch.com/en-us/heroes/lucio#story
peak escarp
imagine if Che Guevara had released an album - a lot of people would buy it because of who made it, even if it wasn't any good
limpid agate
a popular uprising, they drove Vishkar out of their neighborhoods. Lúcio's leadership made him a star overnight and a symbol for positive social change. His music skyrocketed in popularity.
fathom tartan
Wait
fathom tartan
How short is lucio without the skates
fathom tartan
Imagine dieing from a base drop
peak escarp
sonic/ultrasonic weapons aren't that far off from today's technology
worthy rose
Why walk when u can float
opal fox
안녕하세요 스위트걸이에요!!!!
peak escarp
@opal fox English
peak escarp
I can tell
fathom tartan
And he said hello sweet girl
peak escarp
this isn't a social channel
fathom tartan
Are you telling me or him
peak escarp
!!loreonly @opal fox
twilit nacelleBOT
@opal fox This channel is for serious discussion strictly related to the lore of Overwatch. Shitposting will result in a loss of access.
opal fox
???
peak escarp
also this is an English server
swift mason
I don't know if its possible but maybe the admins could add a google translate bot to the server where you put ?fr (french for example) and then say a sentence then it'll be translated to french. That way we can all be more diverse
grand wedge
It sounds complicated. But if there is some french speakers here, we do have some content creator servers ( streamers or youtubers) where you can talk about Overwatch lore.
grand wedge
Did Blizzard tease their WoW books in the past ? Because for the Hero of Numbani, except mentioning it during a Blizzcon panel last year and Amazon pre order, really few people know about the novel.
( just one week away I can’t wait !! )
lavish elm
It is quite odd
swift mason
I reckon as the release date gets closer, they'll start telling more people about it
Like maybe doing an announcement on twitter or something
peak escarp
speaking English is in the rules
7) This is an English-speaking server. Users speaking in languages other than English, whether in a text or voice channel, will be asked to stop
potent rapids
On eichenawfe or how ever mean you spell it is it me or did Reinhardt say “I will get my master amour?@
peak escarp
Balderich's armor (and bones) are sitting on the throne at the end of the map
the "mission" of the map is going there to get it back
potent rapids
With the payload?
To do what? What does the payload fo on each map?
I don’t mind to see what it does on each map (hint hint to YouTubes)
valid terrace
Most escort maps have a payload that pertains to the lore but isn’t necessarily canon
Like blowing up the Omnics in Kings Row never happened
valid terrace
Ignoring the 2 side doors would be best 
young knoll
well, you know Reinhardt doesn't do things half way
grand wedge
The objectives may reflect canon / but the objectives you play are not canon = PVP isn't canon
Like, in Hollywood, the Omnic film director you escort recieved threats form anti-omnics groups - so he need protection : that's canon
But escorting him this way with people trying to block you to acces his trailer : not canon
valid terrace
That’s fair, but it’s mostly conjecture
primal escarp
what's the story behind the nepal maps? Like i know they are canon to Zen's and Genji's story, but was there some sort of conflict that happened there?
every other map has had some sort of fight, with the exception of the Greece map which i dont know what happened there either
iron plume
The conflict thing isn't true
There's nothing (known) happening on Lijiang, Hollywood, Blizworld, Paris or Oasis
and the known battles/fights at Eichenwalde, Horizon and Havana are from a long time before "present"
Paris does have zero hour technically but it's not in the same place as the map so it's a bit of a wash
The "story" of Nepal is that it's a place of worship for the Iris monks
limpid agate
Hollywood
Hollywood of those at least has a premise
Hal-Fred Glitchbot needs an escort to help him get to his limousine because of anti-omnic protests
Or something along those lines
iron plume
fair point, we kinda know what's happening there
but I mean in the sense of
a hack director needing bodyguards isn't exactly an avengers-level threat overwatch-tier mission
limpid agate
Fair
iron plume
if we're restricting this to just "sites of famous events in OW-verse" I'm not sure if Busan counts either
because the Gwishin fights all are over the sea
grand wedge
The maps all have some lore behind them
grand wedge
Hanamura, Horizon, Gibraltar, Volskaya, Dorado, Route 66, Eichenwald, King's Row, Busan and now Paris are all in a cinematic short.
Hollywood : anti omnic protests
Numbani : Orisa & Doomfist lore
Rialto, Havana : old Overwatch missions
Junkertown : the junkers lore
Nepal : The Shambali monastery
Lijiang Tower : Lunar Interstellar HQ
Temple of Anubis : comics - the AI Anubis is quarantined there
Then you have Oasis : Moira is working here as the Minister of Genetics (and I'm willing to bet that's where they cured Sigma/ or where Sigma is working right now)
And I would put Illios with Petra and Ayuttaya, because they all have ties with archeology. And Talon are interested in the Illios artefacts ( Athena has a voiceline about it whe you go in the cockpit at the begining of the match)
cold root
Blizzard world?
grand wedge
The only map for fun ^^
worthy rose
You escort Leoric's crown to his throne
grand wedge
they created a Blizzard themed parc just to go full easter eggs and have a bit of fun
worthy rose
Yep
peak escarp
it's funny that at the reveal panel back in 2014, someone asked if they would ever make a map that was a Blizzard amusement park
I guess they liked the idea
iron plume
what anti-omnic protests are in Hollywood
ah alright, it was in the sourcebook
still, the wording makes it seem like it's not any worse than protests in a "normal" place
not like London where it's an important trait of the place
limpid agate
A lot of the maps in a short
Have a different conflict in the short than the one in the setting of the map
Like King's Row
grand wedge
So, no BlizzCon this year :x maybe something online in the begining of 2021... https://blizzcon.com/fr-fr/news/23434523
peak escarp
there's a preview of the first chapter of Hero of Numbani
which comes out next Tuesday
cosmic crest
we don't know how biotic technology works
but does Ana use bio weapons?
to my knowledge, those are strictly forbidden irl
frosty totem
healing is nanobots i think
valid terrace
It repairs the body on a cellular level
frosty totem
but maybe anas damage darts are full of good old poison
frosty totem
so damage is poison and healing is mercy heal tech
and she switches between them manually
grand wedge
@peak escarp Thank you for the link! I can't wait to read all of it !!!
valid terrace
Yup
peak escarp
there's a few little bits of worldbuilding in the preview
grand wedge
And it's really nice!
peak escarp
Hollagram as a future hologram version of Instagram is cute
grand wedge
I love those littles details
timid eagle
I like Nicky Drayden's work, so I'm excited to pick this up.
peak escarp
and there's another mention of the Overwatch cartoon Michael mentioned years ago
peak escarp
grand wedge
Oh yeah I remember now!
opaque tundra
Im reading the excerpt now and it honestly feels like a cinamatic short
" A non-augmented
human
reading something as com-plex as Omnicode? Efi had studied the omnic’s written languagefor nearly three years, and she couldn’t understand more thanthe occasional word here and there." This line is kinda interesting because it implies that humans probably can read that omnic language. Just wanted to share it
grand wedge
But it seems really complicated to do so
peak escarp
humans can recognize patterns pretty easily, so learning a few symbols isn't unrealistic
cosmic crest
Isn't it animated?
peak escarp
but understanding the grammar and syntax of a code written by/for omnics is probably beyond human ability
yeah
grand wedge
especially a written animated language?
cosmic crest
I don't think it would be transcribeible by normal means
dim scroll
Apparently there is an Overwatch Animated Series in the OW Universe.
peak escarp
makes sense
there's plenty of real-world cartoons based on/inspired by the US army/real life "heroes"
so why wouldn't there be an Overwatch cartoon?
dim scroll
It kinda took me by surprise
Not that it doesn't make sense
It totally does
I just think that it's a bit meta.
Especially since we know that an OW series is in the works somewhere.
opaque tundra
well we at least learned that Sojourn has some brain upgrades?
grand wedge
Her face showed us augmentations, now we know it goes in the brain
Doomfist have implants on his face, and Antonio had some too. Are thos going in their brains too?
cosmic crest
Sombra likely has something similar
grand wedge
Yeah - she is kind of a walking computer
cosmic crest
Sombra is basically a cyborg, not to the same degree as Genji but close enough
timid eagle
Makes you wonder how she can upgrade her tech without becoming outdated the next day.
I mean, one of the bigger tropes of cybernetics in cyberpunk is staying up to date with the latest gear...
But one thing that's never explored is when said tech catches up and over-shots what was the status quo.
young knoll
she may already be quite a bit ahead
many people think she is a collective
she may not need to upgrade for a while, who knows
timid eagle
True. I saw Sombra as a sassy jackass with a nice butt. But I never did consider her having the foresight to future-proof her gear.
young knoll
well, why not? if you can make it the best possible, it makes sense that you should
timid eagle
Fair enough.
fathom tartan
She would make the best tech then cripple everyone else so they cant catch up
pliant sparrow
Most tech companies have tech designed to be released in the future
What the public and companies usually get and use isn't actually the peak technology
Because that requires money
A lot of money
fathom tartan
Well sombra would make sure tech companies are crippled so she can be on top
worthy rose
I'm sure she had it implanted so upgrades would be easy. That would seem like an obvious thing to do, especially for someone well versed in computers
worthy rose
yee
wicked widget
i would pay so much money and give up alot just to see a beautiful Overwatch movie
that Overwatch 2 "trailer" called "zero hour" or something like that was absolutely gorgeous
its exactly what i would want to see, but in a movie
peak escarp
Zero Hour
we'll get to see more of those shorts in the future, and every OW2 story mission will have an animated intro and outro
wicked widget
it would be really cool if it wasnt just shorts tho
primal escarp
this question is less lore but more for my own curiosity, how does the augmentations to the human body work in OW?
peak escarp
what do you mean?
primal escarp
like McCree's arm
it moves like that of a normal human arm
it's fluid motion
and genji's whole body is basically machine, but it still moves as if it were that of a normal human body
how they do that?
peak escarp
it's high tech cybernetics
primal escarp
well i know that, but im more interested in the actual nitty gritty of it
peak escarp
I'm guessing like modern high-tech prosthetics, they detect muscle impulses in adjacent areas or neural impulses in the brain, and translates them into motion
peak escarp
primal escarp
yeah but the hand motion isnt fluid
peak escarp
this is the near future - we're already working on tech like this
right now it's not very fluid, but as the tech gets better the motion will become more fluid
primal escarp
it's becoming closer and closer to those in movies and games, but rn it's not there
peak escarp
and eventually, it may get to the point where a cybernetic limb is indistinguishable from a flesh limb
primal escarp
although when it does, i can assure you, it will becoming more and more the center of medicine
but then that raises the question of super humans
which basically happened in the OW universe with omnics
those with cybernetics will eventually become the dominant "species"
peak escarp
currently, humans with prosthetics don't compete against able-bodied humans because the able-bodied humans have an unfair advantage
primal escarp
not yet, but in the future, who knows
peak escarp
in the future, enhanced humans will have to compete separately so they don't have an advantage over ordinary humans
primal escarp
rn there are "legs" that allow those without legs to run faster than any man alive
peak escarp
we see this in Doomfist's backstory - he couldn't compete anymore with his cybernetic arm
primal escarp
but then "regular" sports will basically phase out of existence
primal escarp
which is not a good thing in the world of sports
the old will die and then a new breed will take its place
peak escarp
humans without augmentations will consider themselves more natural or pure
like Zarya does
primal escarp
but not without malice from the older generations
Zarya needs to be taken down a few pegs
which thankfully did happen, at the hands of Sombre no less
peak escarp
that's one thing I like about Overwatch's level of technology
it's sci-fi, but it's plausible sci-fi
it's pushing current and emerging technology to its logical outcomes
primal escarp
exactly
nothing in it is too far fetched
with the exception of omnic energy
that makes no sense to me at all
You know, You're always here to answer any stupid question i suddenly think about
i like that about you
peak escarp
I love the lore
worthy rose
Isnt there something something god AI in the overwatch universe? Like, damn I cant even remember where I heard it from.
worthy rose
Yes that, do we know what exactly those are?
peak escarp
it was quarantined by Overwatch about a decade ago
primal escarp
gods
peak escarp
it's a powerful AI program that can take control of omnics
so far the only one we know of is Anubis
worthy rose
Was it invented by the same people who made the omnics?
worthy rose
I'd like to explore that more in ow2, it's just kind of, there. And that eye at the center of sombra's web
primal escarp
you know how the omnic factories are self aware?
what if they are the omnic factories in a different body?
limpid agate
There is suggestion that Overwatch shutting down the God Programs is related to the destitute state of Egypt.
peak escarp
Anubis may have been connected to Cairo's infrastructure, and removing it made it cease to function properly
peak escarp
nope, it's fan run
worthy rose
Theres just some overwatch devs in the server I believe
primal escarp
i was just wondering if the OW dev team looks at this
and takes ideas from here
like "oh that's a neat idea, imma use that"
peak escarp
unfortunately (or fortunately?) no
limpid agate
Fortunately, no.
worthy rose
We're not the smartest bunch in here
limpid agate
Community feedback is situationally useful.
hoary condor
But has any community feedback been used before? I’m kinda curious
primal escarp
same here
i mean, there are some pretty dope things that is in here
plus, most of the lore isnt even out yet
so sigma
what's the deal with him?
he's like Moira gone bad
limpid agate
!!loreHeroes sigma
twilit nacelleBOT
To learn more, please visit https://playoverwatch.com/en-us/heroes/sigma#story
hoary condor
Sigma isn’t “bad” he’s just being used by talon to do bad things but he doesn’t really know that he is doing bad things
he's like Moira gone bad
Um no
Sigma isn’t “bad” he’s just being used by talon to do bad things but he doesn’t really know that he is doing bad things
Wait is that correct or am I dumb? :/
primal escarp
no like, both he and moira are hardcore scientist
but hasnt sigma gone mad or something?
where as moira has not, her methods are extremely questionable, but her mind is still intact
twilit nacelleBOT
To learn more, please visit https://playoverwatch.com/en-us/heroes/sombra#story
limpid agate
Sigma hasn't "done" anything yet.
All he has done is harness the harness.
As far as we know, he hasn't actually gone out and done anything yet.
but hasnt sigma gone mad or something?
@primal escarp He was mindbroken by gravity.
A singularity literally ripped his mind apart.
But he got better.
Partially
primal escarp
yeah, his research drove him mad
peak escarp
more like brain damage
primal escarp
and he went mad
limpid agate
I wouldnt say mad
As much as damaged.
And thats past tense.
He seems better now.
primal escarp
his mind is no longer intact
limpid agate
He still has a few after effects, but his mind seems to be collected now that he has harnessed gravity
He is damaged but functional. I don't know a better way to describe it. But he isn't mad.
Junkrat is mad.
Sigma is relatively sane in the persent.
hoary condor
Moira is kinda sane right?
limpid agate
No kinda. She's sane.
She just doesn't care for ethics getting in the way of progress.
peak escarp
she's willing to go to any lengths to pursue science
primal escarp
junkrat isnt mad, he's is just in a constant state of throwing a tantrum
Moira is the ultimate biologist
subtle geyser
i mean theres also some kind of magic in the ow universe though right?
subtle geyser
or how else would you explain the shimada dragons
they literally summon them from an arrow
and its canon since it was in the cinematic
primal escarp
it's not magic, it's more like, dragons existed
and they can call upon their spirits
peak escarp
they could be projections
subtle geyser
how do we even know that though
peak escarp
they are not spirits
primal escarp
they are direct descendants of those dragons, and they can call upon their respective dragons to rise again from the ashes to fight
subtle geyser
apart from the cinematic there hasnt been much genji hanzo lore
peak escarp
the writers said there are is no magic in Overwatch
@primal escarp they are not the literal descendants of dragons
dragons do not exist
the story in the animated short was just a story
primal escarp
i know that
i meant they are direct descendants of the founders of the shimada clan
peak escarp
yes, that's how family dynasties tend to work
primal escarp
then again, like hanzo said "real life is not like the fairy tale father told us"
or something like that
personally im not a fan of genji
he's too much for me
subtle geyser
genji is frickin cool tho
primal escarp
in the cinematic, i dont think he was trying to be condescending, but he came off to me as condescending
I personally enjoy hanzo as a character more
plus, bow is always better than sword imo
subtle geyser
how? i just rewatched it and genji was more just trying to help hanzo
limpid agate
junkrat isnt mad, he's is just in a constant state of throwing a tantrum
Not that kind of mad, and also no. Junkrat is generally pretty laid back.
subtle geyser
theres also mad in the sense of crazy
limpid agate
He's also unhinged and blows stuff up. He is a textbook mad genius. He mass produces a variety of explosives out of garbage.
primal escarp
you go to a family member who thinks you are died, who killed you over a feud, then surprised them with a knife to their neck, and then reveal yourself
and tell them, i forgive you, now forgive yourself
Junkrat is imo the perfect specimen
primal escarp
why put the "zo" in parentheses?
limpid agate
subtle geyser
yeah genji was just asserting dominance after getting attacked lole
primal escarp
aaahh
serene scaffold
hoary condor
!!shitposting
twilit nacelleBOT
Shitposting will result in a loss of access.
subtle geyser
@peak escarp also when did the writers specifically say that theres no magic in overwatch?
peak escarp
Michael Chu specifically answers a question about Hanzo's dragons, and says they are not magic.
(yes the interview is in Thai, just put it through google translate)
they also say on a few panels that Overwatch is set on future earth and doesn't have magic
subtle geyser
i guess they explain pretty much everything with "hard light technology" anyway xd
peak escarp
I don't think it's important what they are
they probably aren't even that special, Hanzo was likely just being dramatic
pastel ocean
kinda lame as hell if its "not that special"
peak escarp
by that I just mean it's not really tied to their bloodline or family
the Shimadas are just the only ones who have access to the tech
worthy rose
I'd like it if they actually expanded upon the dragons instead of making us guess
peak escarp
unfortunately I doubt they will
pastel ocean
just want more pharah and ashe lore
peak escarp
I want to see how Pharah deals with finding out her mother is alive
and the return of Overwatch
pastel ocean
i do too
i'd like to see ashe become a part of overwatch,
they could do it the same way they did mccree
pastel ocean
overwatch isnt the law
peak escarp
she also believes in punishing betrayal
so I really don't think she would be willing to join Overwatch or side with McCree
pastel ocean
a girl can dream
swift pivot
I think the only reason Ashe will join Overwatch is when she is payed
pliant sparrow
I could see her possibly working with overwatch against null sector
But probably only for one or two maps
iron plume
yeah I can see some situational working together
if either NS or Talon threatens her gang
but even then it's a bit iffy
and she won't join
undone marsh
i just want know know how dva managed to lose to a damn hamster
it still annoys me to this day
iron plume
she didn't
valid terrace
When NS tries to liberate BOB 
clever verge
guys add me Hamed #21670
iron plume
wrong channel for this
subtle geyser
i just noticed another dialogue we had with the unnamed omnic, apart from the storm rising ending
in the overwatch 2 gameplay trailer he and doomfist talk
unnamed omnic: "i cant do this"
doom: "you've made your choice, nobody will stop us"
so he becomes disapproving of what doomfist is trying to do
subtle geyser
oh?
peak escarp
Max is having doubts
subtle geyser
when did he even get out of ow custody?
peak escarp
he was arrested 6 years ago
peak escarp
why not? they weren't really after Max, they just wanted info on Doomfist
which he gave them almost immediately because he's a coward
peak escarp
Max is just the money man
he runs casinos so they can launder money
Max isn't a threat
subtle geyser
i mean he also was a threat to doomfist
since he gave away his info so quickly
and got him arrested
peak escarp
it's hard to read what Doomfist thinks, since we've only seen them together once and it was in a comic
but I don't think Doomfist trusts Max fully
Doomfist either knows or suspects that Max sold him out, but Max is valuable so he's willing to sit on that info for now
subtle geyser
exactly, since he's valuable hes also a potential threat to doomfist which can be used by overwatch?
pliant sparrow
He only becomes a threat if he's compromised
peak escarp
to me, this seems like Doomfist is trying to get Max to admit to his part in Doomfist's arrest, or at least reveal that he was involved
like I said, after Overwatch got what they needed from Max, they had no reason to hold him
or if they did keep him in prison, it wasn't for 6 years
subtle geyser
how long was doom in prison?
peak escarp
he was arrested 6 years ago (3 weeks after the Storm Rising mission), and he broke out after Winston's recall was sent out
subtle geyser
so the origin story ending is very recent?
silent hound
i already pre orderd the book
peak escarp
I made a sort of timeline for the year of Recall
I figure Recall happens in the spring - Masquerade would happen about a year after that (with Doomfist escaping prison in January)
subtle geyser
how do we know when infiltration happened?
peak escarp
because Sombra mentions it in her ARG emails
after the riots in Dorado on Nov 1, she heads to Russia
subtle geyser
and where would you put the ow 2 cinematic?
peak escarp
a lot of the dates can be guessed because they reference other events, and a few sources list dates (Sombra's ARG emails, Mei's journal) or reference real-world dates (Reflections at Christmas, Masquerade during Venice Carnivale)
Shooting Star is hard to place since it doesn't reference anything
if we knew exactly what year the story was set in, it would be easier to figure out, because the news broadcast at the end has "Thursday the 19th" in the corner of the screen
for example
if the year was 2076, there are only 2 "thursday the 19th"s in the year
BUT
the year has never been confirmed, and I don't think 2076 is correct
there's also several sources that show or mention the full moon, which can also be used to find dates if we know the year
subtle geyser
damn
peak escarp
timeline is my favourite thing, so I've put a lot of effort into trying to figure it out
it's not perfect, but the more lore we get the more I can add to it
peak escarp
nice
peak escarp
!!loreonly @fresh kite
twilit nacelleBOT
@fresh kite This channel is for serious discussion strictly related to the lore of Overwatch. Shitposting will result in a loss of access.
limpid agate
@novel drum Read the comment above.
radiant valley
damn
limpid agate
Moving swiftly onwards.
opaque tundra
Since everyone reads at different paces, can we spoiler tag novel discussion when it's released? Not entirely lore related, but I still think it's important
peak escarp
I'll try to remember to do that
opaque tundra
thx
peak escarp
why
warm sage
I think it will just be fun watching how zen became the way he is now
And he will probably have some comedy in his stories
Same for Lucio lore
peak escarp
Zen's backstory is probably boring
worthy rose
I assume it's just him being built, being a regular omnic, finding out about the shambali, then joining them
I think a lot of people want zen lore not because it'd be interesting, but because there's no zen lore
iron plume
I think there's interesting things to be found in zen lore
but it's not his origin
i'm more interested in why and how he left Shambali rather why he joined
and that's about more than just Zen
peak escarp
yeah, I think that would be more interesting than what he did before enlightenment
soft hazel
so there was something I was thinking about
which I think is why I never felt engaged by the Overwatch lore
and that's that the gameplay feels so divorced from the story
like is there a in lore explanation as to why all of these heroes are randomly fighting each other?
lament prawn
the gameplay is not lore/canon
soft hazel
see and that's what bothers me
like when I look at other shooters where I actually kinda got into the lore, that wasn't the case
namely tf2 and Apex
lament prawn
and its not meant to be; the game was made as a 6v6 competitive shooter, the lore was always a secondary thing on top of that (which you shouldnt expect from the gameplay, its not a story game)
limpid agate
In most games, the multiplayer is not canon.
The ones where it is, like TF2, are the minority.
sudden patio
I mean, wasn't it an MMO that ended up a shooter?
limpid agate
No
They were working on an MMO.
It got canned
So they used some of the concept art to turn it into Overwatch
sudden patio
Oh
soft hazel
I mean in all the shooters I've played it's been cannon
limpid agate
The story is unrelated
Unreal Tournament, Quake 3, and TF2 come to mind for canon multiplayer.
Battlefront, Quake 1 or 2, and Call of Duty come to mind for non-canon multiplayer.
That's also just looking at FPS
soft hazel
ok but do those games have lore?
lament prawn
overwatch as it is now is designed for competitive, not story, most of the story is outside the game (shorts, comics, short stories)
soft hazel
like OW puts a good deal of effort into lore
lament prawn
this will remain true until OW2
soft hazel
well Apex and tf2 were designed as games first
limpid agate
Battlefront does too, even though its literally just Star Wars
soft hazel
I'm not talking about singleplayer campaigns though
limpid agate
There are multiple games that have all their story outside the game.
soft hazel
there are the coop missions but not many of them and you can only play them during events
limpid agate
!!shitposting @rapid burrow
twilit nacelleBOT
@rapid burrow Shitposting will result in a loss of access.
soft hazel
it's just hard for me to care about the story when there's no way of engaging with it in-game
and ok maybe OW isn't the only game that does that, but I imagine I'd have a similar problem with the others too
limpid agate
If you want another multiplayer only game with no in game story
Theres Rainbow Six Siege
soft hazel
see I was even going to use siege as an example
because I'm pretty sure the gameplay is still kinda cannon there
with the idea being that all the matches are training exercises and take place inside a simulation
soft hazel
ok but overwatch has no explanation for the matches
idk I'm in a game now so maybe I'll say more of my thoughts later
limpid agate
So you want a multiplayer only game where there is no story in game and no canon reason for the story, but a general canon
Can't think of anything other than Star Wars games for the fps genre
I can think of stuff in other genres
peak escarp
the issue of not having the story in the game is what OW2 is meant to solve
it will give us the story mode
it won't be a singleplayer campaign, but the core of Overwatch is a multiplayer shooter, so they can't just drop that
primal escarp
yeah but OW2 is going to be like 60 bucks
limpid agate
We dont know the price tag
But I doubt it will be $60 for returning customers
Considering OW1 was $40
primal escarp
Im hoping they either make it free for those already have OW1 or give those who own OW1 some sort of discount
limpid agate
What games did you play before Overwatch?
peak escarp
I don't know how they could make it free for OW1 owners, unless it was digital-only
primal escarp
what game charges money for maps?
limpid agate
A lot of them.
primal escarp
please name one
peak escarp
f2p games charge for new characters/maps
primal escarp
im very curious now
limpid agate
Off the top of my head, Battlefront, Gears of War, Call of Duty, Battlefield.
For non fps exampels theres Smash Bros
primal escarp
they charge for more maps???
limpid agate
Yes
primal escarp
that's dumb
limpid agate
There are also many many games that charge for you to play as more heroes
peak escarp
getting free DLC is pretty rare in games
limpid agate
League of Legends, Rainbow Six, pretty much any fighting game
peak escarp
we've gotten 4 years of 4 DLC
primal escarp
im just hoping for some sort of discount
limpid agate
Youll probably get a discount
Because they still want you to buy the story mode and new cosmetics
primal escarp
but what if you own a physical copy of the game? how would the discount work?
would you like show a receipt as proof of purchase?
limpid agate
Or you just buy a DLC upgrade
peak escarp
that's what I mean
primal escarp
i mean, what if you lose the receipt?
peak escarp
if it's purchased as a DLC upgrade, they could detect whether you own the game
limpid agate
Or you just buy a DLC upgrade
limpid agate
The physical copy is for people new to Overwatch
Although
There was a time way back
When console expansion packs were possible
But that was almost 15 years ago
Realistically, you'll just buy a dlc upgrade
peak escarp
it's a bit entitled to expect a discount on a sequel
limpid agate
it's a bit entitled to expect a discount on a sequel
Normally yes. But this isn't a sequel, its an expansion pack. Likewise, half of the contents are being given for free.
peak escarp
Blizzard is calling it a sequel
limpid agate
it's more of a prequel if anything
That's not what Prequel means
limpid agate
No
peak escarp
Zero Hour is ~1 year after Recall
limpid agate
It would be economic suicide to charge full price to existing customers
peak escarp
most of the lore we've gotten (with the exception of the Archives missions and a few other stories from the past) is set within that year
limpid agate
Or charge a higher price than they paid the first time.
This is already a terrible financial decision.
peak escarp
definitely not a higher price
primal escarp
all im asking is like a 20% discount minimum
peak escarp
esp for console players - triple A games are already pricey
limpid agate
Charging new customers and existing customers the same price would be suicide.
Existing customers wont touch it.
primal escarp
^^^^
everyone i know who plays or played OW1 isnt planning on getting OW2 for that very reason
limpid agate
Especially not those who bought the game after OW2 was announced
And were told about it being a free upgrade other than the story
And then hearing that the story is gonna be a $40 expansion
primal escarp
doesnt OW2 have a multiplayer mode tho?
iirc it's a new game mode with a giant robot
primal escarp
i know i know
limpid agate
The PvP multiplayer is the same in both
primal escarp
im just saying, isnt that going to be a OW2 exclusive thing?
limpid agate
No
peak escarp
current OW and OW2 will share the same PvP player pool
same maps, same heroes
same modes
primal escarp
but wont the abilities be different?
limpid agate
No
peak escarp
that's what makes it more like an expansion than a true sequel
peak escarp
the Talents are for the hero missions
primal escarp
that's kinda lame
peak escarp
Jeff did say they might include them in the Story missions too
primal escarp
i was kinda excited for pvp but with the new abilities
peak escarp
those abilities would be broken in PvP
they're designed to work against lots of minor enemies
primal escarp
which is why they should make it an arcade mode
peak escarp
maybe
primal escarp
that's about the only reason i would ever get OW2, just to play with the new abilities
:D
peak escarp
I look forward to the story and hero missions and never having to play PvP ever again
limpid agate
Did Echo exist when you bought the game
primal escarp
but like, how do they send the update over?
primal escarp
wait what
limpid agate
The game still needs to be downloaded and installed
peak escarp
it's downloaded over an internet connection
primal escarp
so then what's actually on the disc?
limpid agate
The liscence, install files, probably content for what the game was when the game first came out
primal escarp
im so confused now
limpid agate
4 years ago
limpid agate
!!loreGuide
twilit nacelleBOT
This is a guide for people who don't know where to begin with the lore of Overwatch. The first thing is probably to go watch the shorts. They're popular, easy to consume, and pack a lot of story and character.
Shorts Playlist: https://bit.ly/2UQyTeL
There are many comics, short stories, and blog posts as well. The most important ones are:
Binary: https://bit.ly/2IzNvJy
Masquerade: https://bit.ly/2IzNTI0
What You Left Behind: https://bit.ly/2Fh7MRz
There is also an important chain of events following Ana and Soldier 76 (and Mercy at the end):
Legacy: https://bit.ly/2DgM1jQ
Old Soldiers: https://bit.ly/2KLILTV
Bastet: https://bit.ly/2QuXHmM
Valkyrie: https://bit.ly/2CF5JVE
The rest of the stories are mostly optional. Special mention goes out to the Junkers, who have an entertaining string of stories:
Wasted Land: https://bit.ly/2DeKB9G
A Moment in Crime: http://bit.ly/2fMsVYB
Going Legit: https://bit.ly/2InZUkm
The Plan: http://bit.ly/2uZiitC
worthy rose
oh man
limpid agate
All the big stuff is in the pins
worthy rose
thank you!
limpid agate
This is just a short list of the important things
worthy rose
Ok
limpid agate
If you want to see all the comics, check out the pin
plain matrix
excuse me why is it that they say the junkertown stuff is "optional"? It's perfect
peak escarp
it doesn't impact the main story
peak escarp
Ganymede
worthy rose
thx
peak escarp
I'm still confused by how it got that name
does it have that name in-universe? if so, who named it? or is that just what the devs have named it?
maybe Brigitte or Ingrid named it when Torbjorn brought Bastion home
worthy rose
who knows sir mabey i did mabey i went back in time left aa letter to the devs telling them to name the bird V
Ganymede
peak escarp
. . . what
valid terrace
In other words... the devs named it that
wicked widget
who knows sir mabey i did mabey i went back in time left aa letter to the devs telling them to name the bird V
what the heck? what does this mean lol
oh.
“who knows, sir? maybe i did, maybe i went back in time and left a letter to the developers telling them to name the bird Ganymede.”
valid terrace
Yes
peak escarp
why does everyone call me sir?
small fulcrum
it's not a bad thing tho
peak escarp
but I'm not a sir
small fulcrum
oh ok ma'm
primal escarp
Because when it comes to gaming, there is a bigger male gaming population than there is female
so people tend to assume that people are male
hollow siren
@primal escarp While that is true from some aspects, recent studies have shown that the amount of female gamers is about to get on a equal percent with male gamers in about 3-5 years.
peak escarp
it's not important
hollow siren
^
primal escarp
well no, i dont mean anything by it
im just saying that, typically, when you think of gaming, you think of men
i am not denying at all that female players are joining more and more
:D
peak escarp
it's also off-topic
primal escarp
true
and out of curiosity, you know how sigma in the game has the two orbs that he uses?
where in the comics does that appear?
and what's the mechanic behind that?
peak escarp
Sigma doesn't appear in the comics
they might not be canon
they appear to be two captured singularities
primal escarp
Because i would really like to see more about how he does it, in the game it appears as a black blob that is split into two, and then some sort of "barrier" forms around it
what im under the assumption is that, it's orbs of gravity
or some sort of mass
peak escarp
the ability description calls it "two gravitic charges"
so more like miniature versions of Zarya's ult
hollow siren
It is similiar in where it sucks people close
primal escarp
whereas zarya's is a giant mass that sucks everything in for a period of time
primal escarp
but if they were less stable, wouldnt they explode in his hand?
hollow siren
That is what the barrier is for I guess
Most be some sort of metal that keeps it from exploding
primal escarp
out of all the "weapons" in OW, Sigma's intrigues me the most
hollow siren
Same
primal escarp
it's also not perfectly locked
hollow siren
It's a weird and interesting Primary
primal escarp
it's like pieced together just well enough that if you were to throw it, it explodes
hollow siren
I think what is around it is a sort of metal that makes it controllable
The metal might be magnetically connected to Sigma
primal escarp
i dont think so
i think sigma controls the density of the black mass when it's in his hand
but when he shoots it, it is only controlled until the metal breaks
whether it breaks due to impact, or because it can no longer withstand the pressure from the black mass
which means the thing around it has to do with sigma himself, but i dont think it's magnetically connected
primal escarp
it just wouldnt make any sense
hollow siren
We could be also going a bit too deep about it
primal escarp
oh dope, i've been trying to get into a film elective in my school but i keep getting shut down due to the amount of students that want to get in
and this channel is about lore, so there is no such thing as "too deep"
hollow siren
Like Reapers abilities (Which are totally scientifically explainable) which we will never get a confirmation about
primal escarp
"too deep" is what you call MatPat from Game theory
primal escarp
fax
peak escarp
it's not bad to want to try to explain things
peak escarp
but you have to understand that you'll probably never get an answer and will always be left wondering
primal escarp
it lets your creative mind really get to work
i would rather spend my life wondering and chasing after an answer than spend a day knowing everything
peak escarp
there will always be that little disappointment of never knowing if you're right or not
hollow siren
Imagine how boring it would be knowing everything
primal escarp
exactly
but that disappointment is what keeps you going
if scientists were held back by every discovery they couldnt make, we would still be in the dark ages of scientific repression
hollow siren
But tbh I don't really see Sigma being a important Talon member in the story
primal escarp
it's the fact that we may never know about something that keeps us going
and what do you mean? Sigma is on par with an ICBM
the dude has full control of gravity
and gravity is a force that if you can control, you can kill EVERYONE
hollow siren
He was created because the abilities did not make sense for Mauga. He was a last minute design
young knoll
we don't know that it is full control
peak escarp
he's also being exploited for his research, not for his combat abilities
primal escarp
true, we dont, but we do know that he is in a state where can manipulate it without any problem
young knoll
if he does have full control, he would basically be a god
hollow siren
I could see him as boss for a infiltration in the Talon HQ but nothing really that impactful
young knoll
I don't think that makes for a good story in this case
hollow siren
Even though he is one of my fav
primal escarp
the way gravity works is that an object has a mass big enough to distort the area around it and keep it pulled in, the bigger the mass, the bigger the gravity
but Sigma can manipulate gravity while still retaining his original mass, this means that he can easily smash everyone to the ground, if he so chose to
hollow siren
Only thing I can see is him getting a small Novel
peak escarp
he's not a violent or aggressive man, so him smashing everyone into the ground is unlikely
primal escarp
that is true, but he is under the influence of talon
primal escarp
correct, he is not violent or aggressive, but he does not fully have his conscience back yet
young knoll
also likely insane, so it seems likely he could be induced to violence in some situations
primal escarp
i think he's in sort of a "winter soldier" state
free to think, until something is said or done to trigger him
peak escarp
why?
primal escarp
he was put in a psych ward for crying out loud
peak escarp
he was put in a government facility
hollow siren
I wouldn't call him the Winter Soldier of OW, I think Widow fits better there
peak escarp
because he was a danger to himself and others
primal escarp
Talon is a dangerous organization, they will do what they need to to gain what they want
lament prawn
i dont think sigma being made last minute changes the possibility of a relevant story appearance for him. he was last minute, but he's still on the roster of only ~30 heroes, they dont put anyone there
young knoll
I thought that too, but Zen is not really lore relevant
primal escarp
if anything, Sigma's existence is a huge part of the plot
lament prawn
if he does make a relevant appearance, his unstable mind is just too big a part of him to not come in play, so there could be some interesting events
primal escarp
you dont scream "WHAT IS THAT MELODY!" and then just brush it off
peak escarp
he's really not that important
primal escarp
i will be really really disappointed if they dont progress the Sigma storyline
and how is he not important?
hollow siren
DLC where Sigma has gone insane and started to lift cities up in the sky and you need to stop him. Maybe he could be able to build some moving rock goons that you need to fight off
I could imagine something like that
young knoll
"has gone insane"
primal escarp
because he isnt relevant to the whole omnic crisis thing, doesn't make him unimportant
young knoll
as opposed to the incredibly stable now Sigma
lament prawn
he's not important to the main plot, but not everything they show is the main plot
primal escarp
Moira has nothing to do with the current state of affairs, yet she is incredibly important
hollow siren
He is off the tick rn, but if he lost his mind there could be consequences
primal escarp
Imagine Sigma but off his meds
the dude can implode the entire earth if he wanted to
he is genuinely a walking black hole
in fact, he does have a black hole
lament prawn
and with his position and abilities, i'd say he has more potential than d.va/zen at being a part of the main plot, not that its likely
hollow siren
Just for the record we don't know how much of gravity he can control
young knoll
no proof that he is that powerful
primal escarp
in the game he legit has a black hole as an ability
i know the game abilities aren't really "canon"
but still
young knoll
if he was that much of a threat, I doubt the government would have just let him live
hollow siren
Game abilities don't have to be part of the lore
primal escarp
Talon exists
if they want to shut up a powerful figure, they can do so
Sombre has done it once, and she can do it again
all you need is blackmail
hollow siren
Imagine Hammond joining Overwatch as the next strike team
primal escarp
he honestly might
hollow siren
Overwatch 3: Electric Booglaloo
hollow siren
He could be the replacement for Winston if he leaves the strike team
primal escarp
and they both escaped the lunar colony
lament prawn
even if hammond gets anywhere near the main plot/characters (which i would love for him to), he'd still be like, the dog in a family photo
primal escarp
you never know
lament prawn
not a relevant character with a big arc
hollow siren
Winston and Hammond Luner Colony mission when?
primal escarp
Hammond is big in Junkertown
so if they ever continue that story, they will have no choice but to bring up hammond
hollow siren
Winston as the head of Overwatch and Hammond replacing him on the Strike Team.
primal escarp
and due to Hammond being a kingpin in the Junkertown underground fighting arena, i doubt people will be screwing with Hammond
peak escarp
Hammond left Junkertown
hollow siren
^
primal escarp
doesn't change the fact that his record there was a big one
primal escarp
why doesnt it?
peak escarp
he was a champion in the Scrapyard, but left Junkertown, so he isn't there to defend his title
hollow siren
Why do we live?
peak escarp
and nobody outside Junkertown will care about him being champion
worthy rose
We live for the announcement that soldier is straight
primal escarp
So your saying that if someone where to leave something, they are no longer relevant to that place anymore?
peak escarp
he's relevant as a former champion
hollow siren
Soldier was probably the best choice of hero to reveal as gay
worthy rose
how so
primal escarp
Soldier being gay some something sporatic and had no real relevance to the story at all
hollow siren
^
young knoll
that we know of, I think
lament prawn
can we go back to actually talking about the relevant lore
primal escarp
it felt like more of a little sob story on the side, but that's about it
peak escarp
it's more important that he's single
hollow siren
Yeah I would say the same
worthy rose
yes
hollow siren
@lament prawn
worthy rose
he can stay gay but not date james charles
primal escarp
who?
worthy rose
uhh
peak escarp
since he's a man so dedicated to his mission that he can't settle down or form lasting relationships
primal escarp
he's the type of guy to put work before anything else
peak escarp
exactly
primal escarp
which in his situation, is actually not that bad of a thing
worthy rose
that and keeping his lawn clean
primal escarp
although it's horrible for his mental health
peak escarp
so whether his partner was male or female didn't matter
so why not give him a boyfriend?
primal escarp
it really shines a light on the life of a soldier
peak escarp
Jack's motivations wouldn't change if Vincent was Victoria
worthy rose
“ICE WALL COMING UP”
primal escarp
they can never truly date if they are on active duty as they will always have to put their service and country before their own needs
Mei confuses me
young knoll
@worthy rose no shitposting
primal escarp
no no, he brings up a good point
peak escarp
why is Mei confusing?
worthy rose
yo what did i do?
primal escarp
in no world can that work
even with the most advanced science that they have, it doesnt work like that
worthy rose
It doesn’t even explain it in her thingy
peak escarp
it does in the OW universe
primal escarp
No it doesnt
cold root
Holograms maybe?
hollow siren
I need to go back to analyzing a music video. Bye bye! 
worthy rose
bye
cold root
bye
worthy rose
How can you stand a hologram?
primal escarp
a gun like the one she has, physically can not make a wall like that, in that amount of time
worthy rose
on a*
primal escarp
it's impossible
worthy rose
well no,
peak escarp
but it does
primal escarp
in the animated short, she makes pillars
not walls
there is a huge difference between a singular pillar, and a wall
cold root
You cant stand on a hologram... hadnt thought about that one
primal escarp
and her ability to incase herself in ice, how?
peak escarp
that one isn't canon
worthy rose
considering the amount of water it takes to make a large piece of ice in her gun this could be possible
primal escarp
the only ability she has that makes sense is her ult with Snowball
peak escarp
okay
primal escarp
Im not saying she can't make a wall
worthy rose
it need a little amount of water
worthy rose
You cant stand on a hologram... hadnt thought about that one
@cold root 😂
cold root
yeah sometimes im kinda dumb
primal escarp
you had a good idea, Jugly
worthy rose
well we can look into that
worthy rose
sort of look towards tge direction of holograms
the*
Considering this is the future of course
keen summit
we are older than reinheart
worthy rose
Why would you say something so controversial yet so brave?
peak escarp
they're not holograms
keen summit
i am telling the truth
peak escarp
it's cyronics
worthy rose
we know that
young knoll
cyronics?
young knoll
do you mean cryonics?
cold root
Wait... echo's ultimate is a hologram right? Then why can she hurt people with it if it is only light?
primal escarp
I love how you show the clip, but in the clip, the thing was already fully formed and all we see is her final touches
:D
primal escarp
@lament prawn