lore-discussion

[peak escarp]

like I said, I'm always here

[pliant tree]

Isn’t like a spiritual thing they feel

Yeah but

[fathom tartan]

Your batman

[peak escarp]

they're not spirits

they just call them spirits

[limpid agate]

Its tech

[pliant tree]

When the hanzo ult goes thru hanzo

[limpid agate]

There is no magic in Overwatch

[fathom tartan]

It's not confirmed tech

[limpid agate]

When the hanzo ult goes thru hanzo
Symmetra's hard light orbs also phase through people

It's not confirmed tech
Its confirmed not magic

[pliant tree]

Okay I thought it was magic because I thought it was something we can see

[limpid agate]

By default, that means its tech

[fathom tartan]

Mmm

No

[valid terrace]

The most popular explanation is hard light tattoos of some form

[pliant tree]

I think that it’s only visible to the brothers

It represents

Their full power

[limpid agate]

What

[valid terrace]

We see it in Zero Hour

[pliant tree]

Maybe hanzo has a special bow that when shot the brother can see it

[valid terrace]

Others are present

[pliant tree]

Dragons wouldn’t make sense tho

If it just phases thru u

What does it doc

Do*

[valid terrace]

Why not?

[fathom tartan]

I'll let you guys handle this iv already had my conversation about the dragons

[limpid agate]

Like I said

Symmetra's hard light orbs also phase through people

She says they are an energy drain

[pliant tree]

Oh I see

[limpid agate]

Symmetra's orbs and Hanzo's dragons behave identically from what we have seen.

[fathom tartan]

I dont think it's identical

[pliant tree]

And do ultimates have like real life cool downs

[limpid agate]

No

[pliant tree]

So they can spam death blossom

Like they don’t get drained of stamina?

[fathom tartan]

If the shimda clan had hard light tech they would of has no need for shady clan stuff

[limpid agate]

We've seen Death Blossom in the short.

[pliant tree]

They’re a drug dealing business not some powerful techs

[limpid agate]

Im sure stamina still exists as a human function.

[valid terrace]

It’s more like the trump card that you can’t use all the time usually

[pliant tree]

True but reaper isn’t human anymore

[limpid agate]

They’re a drug dealing business not some powerful techs
They deal in weapons trading.

[pliant tree]

I want to see him without a mask

[fathom tartan]

And drugs I'm pretty sure

[valid terrace]

Like Junks tire for the most obvious example

[pliant tree]

From my point of understanding

[limpid agate]

Whether or not they deal in drugs

They deal in weapons trading

[pliant tree]

Moira tried recreating the revive process on reaper aswell as experimenting on him with her powers and it went wrong?

[limpid agate]

The Shimada family was established centuries ago, a clan of assassins whose power grew over the years, enabling them to build a vast criminal empire that profited from lucrative trade in arms and illegal substances

[pliant tree]

I’m a reaper main))

[limpid agate]

Its not two exclusive industries

You can't just say

Yeah we only sell drugs

No guns

No, they sell both

[pliant tree]

Yeah

[valid terrace]

Talon can create super soldiers should they just stop doing any crime?

[pliant tree]

Never said not both

[limpid agate]

They’re a drug dealing business not some powerful techs

Powerful Techs = Arms

[pliant tree]

No

I meant like

Symtra

[limpid agate]

That sounds like arms

[fathom tartan]

He ment hard light constructs

[pliant tree]

You know they’re whole thing is that they’re techs that are really powerful

[limpid agate]

If its expensive

And a weapon

[pliant tree]

That’s what I meant

[limpid agate]

Its arms

It doesn't need to be expensive to be arms

But in this case, it is

[pliant tree]

I know but what I’m saying is it high tech

[limpid agate]

Ok.

So?

[fathom tartan]

He is referring to the hard light constructs

[pliant tree]

You can’t just get some ak-47 vs advanced rifles that are energy powered

[limpid agate]

I know what they are talking about

[pliant tree]

Symetra has some op laser guns that drain your stamina no?

[limpid agate]

We have seen

Illegal arms trading

With higher tech arms

[pliant tree]

Yes true

But if that were the case

Why does hanzo use a bow and arrow?

[limpid agate]

Because Hanzo is a traditionalist

And even then

[pliant tree]

Where’s the tech in that it’s modern yeah

[limpid agate]

His bow and arrow is pretty advanced

[valid terrace]

Scatter arrow is canon

[pliant tree]

Advanced in the sense that it’s more then a bow

[limpid agate]

Yes.

[pliant tree]

True yes but what about something more

[limpid agate]

His arrows are trick tech arrows

[pliant tree]

True but I’m talking about the bow not the arrows

[valid terrace]

They all bend toward the target

[pliant tree]

Maybe the bow can transform into a staff or something that would be pretty cool

[limpid agate]

What's your point

You're getting side tracked

[valid terrace]

The bow doesn’t do anything cool except fire the arrows

[pliant tree]

^

[valid terrace]

Genji’s blade is the same imo

[pliant tree]

I don’t think the shamada clan is powerful

[valid terrace]

Just a sword that’s sharp really

It’s really not

[pliant tree]

Yeah the dragon disappears after he pulls it out

[limpid agate]

Here you go, scatter arrow has floating shit.

[pliant tree]

From what I remember

[valid terrace]

It’s below deadlock or los muertos levels

[pliant tree]

Yeah but his BOW is nothing special

[valid terrace]

So?

[limpid agate]

So what

[pliant tree]

Los muertos are hackers tho

[limpid agate]

No, just Sombra

[pliant tree]

Way more powerful then some bootleg Japanese cartel

[limpid agate]

Again, just Sombra

[valid terrace]

That’s what I mean tho, shimada is very low

[timid beacon]

they used ak47s

[pliant tree]

No los muertos is not just somber

Sombra

[limpid agate]

I think you misunderstood

[pliant tree]

It’s multiple people

[limpid agate]

Los muertos are hackers tho
No, just Sombra is the hacker

Los Muertos is a gang

Sombra worked with them often

[pliant tree]

Oh Yeah I know

Yeah i misunderstood

I thought u said los muertos is one perso

Hackers + arms and drug business

[fathom tartan]

Well the shamida clan was powerful just you have to think they did assassinations on top of drugs and arms dealing

[valid terrace]

I’d be surprised if Sombra was the only hacker considering they knew how to augment her the ways she needed

[pliant tree]

They have some tech people

But not hackers

[valid terrace]

Obviously she’s the best though

[pliant tree]

Otherwise sombra would be useless

[limpid agate]

Well the shamida clan was powerful just you have to think they did assassinations on top of drugs and arms dealing
They did.

In fact

[pliant tree]

Remember

[limpid agate]

They actively still do

They are actively sending assassins to kill Hanzo

He assumes Genji is another one

[fathom tartan]

Yes

[pliant tree]

Sombra got in because she was a kid that was a really good hacker

If they already had a hacker

I don’t think they would care about some kid regardless how good she was

[valid terrace]

Most professional hackers work in groups

[pliant tree]

But because they needed one

They gave her a chance

[valid terrace]

Hence the assumption Sombra is a hacker cell

[pliant tree]

Nah zarya said it’s one person

[valid terrace]

We know

[limpid agate]

In universe

People think Sombra is a collective

[pliant tree]

Yeah but they don’t

[limpid agate]

Including Lynx

[valid terrace]

But she’s not Los Muertos at that point

[pliant tree]

Yeah

[limpid agate]

In that very same comic

[valid terrace]

I’m saying if they’re recruiting one hacker...

[limpid agate]

Lynx, a professional hacker based in Numbani with many connections

Thought Sombra was a group

That was the point Moscrimer was making

In universe, people think Sombra is a group

[pliant tree]

Sombra is a hacker tho, she’s smart

She leaves fake clues

Fake hints

[limpid agate]

What's your point

[pliant tree]

That’s what hackers do

[valid terrace]

I’m saying hacker groups are common

[limpid agate]

Where are you going with this

[pliant tree]

I’m saying that sombra wouldn’t be the type for groups

She leaves trails that lead to no where

Tricking everyone to thinking she’s a collective

[valid terrace]

That’s why she left to conquer the world

[pliant tree]

But she’s just one person

Because

If they know it’s just one person

They would think she weak

Alone

[valid terrace]

No it’s so she holds the information and not the other way around

[pliant tree]

It’s more intimidating if you have a whole group of hackers that know what they’re doing

She reminds me of a show

Called secrets

[valid terrace]

She believes holding info on someone is having power against them

[pliant tree]

They would expose secre for money

Secrets

Sombra sorta does that right?

[valid terrace]

To an extent

She does it for personal gain, but more so for power

Is the Dorado plant abandoned with Lumerico shut down?

[fathom tartan]

Not to sound mean but do I go in circles like this

[valid terrace]

That’s the way of the game

[pliant tree]

Is zarya gun really a black hole?

Or is sigmas

[fathom tartan]

Shh

[valid terrace]

They both utilize gravity

[fathom tartan]

Dont think about it too hard

[pliant tree]

From my understanding zaryas gun isn’t a black hole

[valid terrace]

But neither are true black holes

[peak escarp]

it's not

Zarya's gun fires a graviton

it's even in the name

[pliant tree]

I think it’s artificially created magnet that takes the form of a black hole combined with some energy tech

[fathom tartan]

Sig's I think kinda is because he can control gravity to a extent but idk

[peak escarp]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graviton

[valid terrace]

I was about to say that 😔

[pliant tree]

Yeah but how could you fire that

[fathom tartan]

Shh

Because you can

[valid terrace]

It’s like a hypothetically weaponized electron gun

[reef oracle]

It's a particle/mass of particles

[valid terrace]

But with gravity

[pliant tree]

You telling me zarya can SHOOT a particle that controls one of the universal funadalmentals?

[reef oracle]

How can you shoot any particle

[fathom tartan]

Yes

[valid terrace]

Yup

[pliant tree]

Exaclty

[reef oracle]

Literally yes

[pliant tree]

Hi

How*

[fathom tartan]

Because

It can

[reef oracle]

Science shit mate

It's a game lmao

[pliant tree]

Sigma actually created a harness form of a black hole

[fathom tartan]

Yes

[valid terrace]

It’s meant to be on Tanks isn’t it?

[fathom tartan]

Sig can control gravity

And if that dosent hurt your head well idk what will

[pliant tree]

Why can’t reaper go thru solid objects when he’s Wraithgg

Wraithing*

[valid terrace]

He’s still particles

[pliant tree]

Sorry new keyboard on my phone

Getting used to it

[reef oracle]

Whatever zaryas tech is it's the same as orisa's halt

[valid terrace]

Why can’t you sweep dust through the walls

[pliant tree]

But that doesn’t make sense

[reef oracle]

So like effi is a super genius child obviously, but even she managed to figure out how to utilize it

[valid terrace]

Yes

[pliant tree]

How does Moira wraith out of traps inhale

[fathom tartan]

Sig's work probably helped

[pliant tree]

Ingame*

[valid terrace]

She doesn’t

[pliant tree]

But reaper can’t wraith thru solid objects

[valid terrace]

Also in game isn’t canon

Right

[reef oracle]

Yeah lol 1: she doesn't 2: go use a bear trap on dust

[valid terrace]

Neither can Moira

[reef oracle]

If she did

[valid terrace]

Exactly

[pliant tree]

No I’m saying why can’t she go thru traps

I meant to say how come

[valid terrace]

she can’t for gameplay reasons

[pliant tree]

Because she’s just particles

[reef oracle]

Because game =/= canon

[pliant tree]

True

[reef oracle]

Gameplay balance

[fathom tartan]

Because balance

[pliant tree]

What else can we talk about

[valid terrace]

Why can Sombra hack anyone that isn’t a robot or cyborg

[pliant tree]

Where does reaper get his shotguns from

When he doesn’t reload

[limpid agate]

Gameplay != Lore

[reef oracle]

Unknown iirc

[fathom tartan]

Death hands him more

[valid terrace]

They are almost definitely linked to his own abilities

[pliant tree]

In the infiltration we see him throw his guns on the floor

[valid terrace]

They dissolve and reappear with him

[pliant tree]

Oh ok

That makes sense

[valid terrace]

The hellfire shots also cause necrosis

[pliant tree]

Who do you think would win

Reaper

Or doom fist

[valid terrace]

Which is likely what Repaer is going through

Probably Reaper given his abilities

[reef oracle]

I'd bet that with moira's "help" he managed to control his matter so his clothing and weapons are just... Him

[pliant tree]

Yeah ^

[fathom tartan]

If I was reaper I would fear sig

[reef oracle]

Also, doomfist

[pliant tree]

Idk doomfist recked tracer and genji

[valid terrace]

She likely just made them for him using the same principles

[pliant tree]

But

[valid terrace]

But maybe

[pliant tree]

Reaper can wraith when doomfist punch

I think reaper givin his kid and abilities

[valid terrace]

Yes and reaper shots are more menacing then Tracers

[pliant tree]

But no guns reaper loses

[fathom tartan]

Sig is the only person to hold actual superpowers

[pliant tree]

But doomfist has a shield

[valid terrace]

He basically beat two fast characters and lost to a strong one

[pliant tree]

In the short, we see a barrier

Protecting doomfist from those shots

[reef oracle]

Reaper can't stay in wraith form though right?

[pliant tree]

Much like ingame

I think he can

Just not ingame obv

[reef oracle]

I guess at the end of the original short he's sort of wraithy but that's cuz he was extremely injured right?

[fathom tartan]

I think he can control it almost fully

[valid terrace]

Reaper can likely shoot through the barrier before Doomfist lands the necessary one or two punches

Yes

[limpid agate]

Given what we have seen in the lore:

• Reaper can be hit by physical attacks (Ana, Jack, Winston)
• Doomfist has a barrier of some sort (Doomfist Origin)
• Doomfist has fast reaction time (Defeating Genji, Tracer)

Both are powerful

[reef oracle]

That's why I think reaper would lose, he's been hit before

Doomfist is nutty in lore

[valid terrace]

So has Doomfist

[reef oracle]

It's not like he has a 7 second cooldown on punching

[valid terrace]

Reaper has unlimited wraith

[reef oracle]

Given reaper shooting at Winston

[valid terrace]

And he has a grenade launcher

[reef oracle]

I don't think it would do much to doom

[valid terrace]

Winston is stronger than both

[fathom tartan]

Wait

[valid terrace]

We know that

[reef oracle]

Winston is stronger than doom?

Where does that happen

[fathom tartan]

Are talon using sig's powers for well power as in electric

[valid terrace]

He’s the one that locked him away

[pliant tree]

Doomfist lost to monkey

Reaper fucks up monkey

BUT

[valid terrace]

Look at the magazine in the doom teaser

[pliant tree]

electricity

[limpid agate]

Winston is stronger than doom?
Winston defeats Doomfist in a fist fight

At the end of Doomfist Origins

[pliant tree]

Is reapers weakness

[limpid agate]

The two collide fists.

We know Winston won that fight

[pliant tree]

And doomfist gauntlet has electricity

Therefore doomfist would win

[reef oracle]

Gauntlet vs monkey arm?

[fathom tartan]

Correction

[reef oracle]

Or bare fists

[fathom tartan]

Angery ape arm

[limpid agate]

Gauntlet vs Winston

[reef oracle]

Huh

Neat

[valid terrace]

It transfers electricity into kinetic force it’s not an electrical shock

[pliant tree]

Reapers weakness is electricity we know form Winston so doomfist shoots out electricity when he punches

So reaper looses

No

[limpid agate]

It doesn't shoot electricity...

[pliant tree]

We see when he punches genji

No put

When he punches

There’s like a shock

[valid terrace]

Did Genji crackle with electricity?

[pliant tree]

Of electricity

[limpid agate]

Genji is a cyborg

[pliant tree]

Ye

Genji did

[reef oracle]

Punch robot robot go bzzt

[peak escarp]

because Genji's body uses electricity

[limpid agate]

^

Genji also

Didn't cackle with Electricity until he hit a car

Doomfist's fist had no electric effects

[pliant tree]

No he did

Play it 0.25

[fathom tartan]

We also do see a force similar to electricity in the museum

[limpid agate]

Nothing

[pliant tree]

You will see once the rock and doomfist punch hit him

[limpid agate]

More nothing

[valid terrace]

It’s like saying a car is a flamethrower since it’s powered by combustion

[limpid agate]

Green electricity

[pliant tree]

Is that wind behind him?

[limpid agate]

Because Genji, the green robot, runs on electricity

[reef oracle]

I want green electricity

[limpid agate]

Punching Winston

[fathom tartan]

He's not a robot

[limpid agate]

No, he's a cyborg

[pliant tree]

Hmm okay I remember watching doomfist had sparks around him but

[limpid agate]

I misspoke

Because I am too busy thinking about some other absurd premise

[valid terrace]

When he charges there is electricity

But that’s not the weapon part

[limpid agate]

The gauntlet itself has electricity

[valid terrace]

It’s like saying a car is a flamethrower since it’s powered by combustion

[limpid agate]

^

[fathom tartan]

It can also do a big engery blast like the kid did

[limpid agate]

The first trailer is really inconsistent

[valid terrace]

The gauntlet was altered from that I think

[limpid agate]

Especially with its special effects

[reef oracle]

I hope kid shows up in ow2

[limpid agate]

And the slideshow

[reef oracle]

I know he won't

But it'd be cool

[valid terrace]

That’s my explanation at least

[reef oracle]

Cuz he'd be an adult now right?

[fathom tartan]

The slideshows is the only off thing really

[limpid agate]

The slideshow has been half retconned, and the special effects were all just done to look cool.

[valid terrace]

Maybe as a bg character

[limpid agate]

Cuz he'd be an adult now right?
No, its been less than a year

[valid terrace]

Reapers grenades are somewhere in the gray area

[reef oracle]

Really?

I thought museum was pre crisis

[limpid agate]

Zero Hour is 1 year after Recall

What

[fathom tartan]

He can mabey mabey drive

[limpid agate]

The Crisis was 30 years ago

Tracer wasnt even born by the time it ended

[reef oracle]

Current crisis

[limpid agate]

The current crisis?

Be more specific

South Korea? Been 20 years, Overwatch did nothing.

[valid terrace]

Everything except Zero Hour fits that bill really

[reef oracle]

After the team gets back together

[limpid agate]

Russia? Recent, been a while, Overwatch didn't exist.

Null Sector?

That's all post Recall

[reef oracle]

Ye

[limpid agate]

Zero Hour and Recall are 1 year apart.

The Cinematic Trailer is after Recall

And before Zero Hour

[reef oracle]

I thought it was before recall

[limpid agate]

That's impossible.

[valid terrace]

Winston and Tracer fighting Talon

[reef oracle]

Oh yeah

Katie is the big dumb

[valid terrace]

Rip

[fathom tartan]

You tired katie

[reef oracle]

I thought it was pre-disband

I mean it's 2:40am

So

[valid terrace]

Reaper was Reyes at that point sorry

[reef oracle]

Kinda forgot that reaper was in overwatch xD

[fathom tartan]

Man

[reef oracle]

So much for kid joining the game

Oh well

[valid terrace]

He could but it wouldn’t be a good idea

Shooting the hamster was already pushing the teen rating from what I’ve heard

Plus he’s pretty lame

[reef oracle]

He can't until he's an adult I'm fairly certain. Hasn't blizzard said they wouldn't add a child to the roster? I think that happened

[fathom tartan]

Honestly

[reef oracle]

Effi was the closest they would go to putting a kid in game?

Something to that end?

[valid terrace]

I guess

[fathom tartan]

If ow gets a bigger rating I'm fine with it

[reef oracle]

I think they said that

[fathom tartan]

Means we can get into closer details

[valid terrace]

They won’t

It would crack the player base and change the theme of the story

[fathom tartan]

The story dosen't need to change

[valid terrace]

What details need an M on the cover?

Like blood?

Sex?

Who cares?

[fathom tartan]

I don't know mabey the fact there is a organisation that has several mass killers

[peak escarp]

Overwatch doesn't need a higher rating

[fathom tartan]

Would be nice to see a kill count

[valid terrace]

They’re also all impersonal in the pve fights we’ve had

Besides poor bloodless Antonio

[reef oracle]

I mean like it's possible that if/when the Netflix show comes out it will go into details like that

But I doubt it

There's no necessary information to be gained from a higher rating

They could add kill counts to the lore as is

That wouldn't affect the game rating

[fathom tartan]

Also why do you think a m is just gonna change the whole story everything with a m dosent need to just be a sex party or a murder documentary

[limpid agate]

Fun fact, elimination != kill.

[valid terrace]

It’s unlikely to be for mature audiences either as the team has tried to shut down adult themed fan content

[limpid agate]

A lot of heroes haven't canonically killed.

At least, not humans.

[reef oracle]

If suddenly "purple sniper girl who kills" became "purple sniper girl has killed 47 people and 28 omnics"

That wouldn't affect the game rating

[limpid agate]

They've destroyed omnics.

[reef oracle]

In the first place

[worthy rose]

But I think you can infer that they’ve killed humans

[valid terrace]

Some yeah

[worthy rose]

Because Overwatch as a whole works against terrorism, right?

[fathom tartan]

They have killed lots and lots from what we can infer

[limpid agate]

Characters like Brig, Tracer, and Mei haven't.

[fathom tartan]

Well

Taiga

[worthy rose]

Hmm, tracer i would doubt. Wasn’t she an airforce pilot?

[limpid agate]

She was a pilot.

[fathom tartan]

Tracer is a operative in a anti-terrorist organization

[limpid agate]

That's nice.

[valid terrace]

She’s killed Omnics though

[limpid agate]

Yes, I corrected it

To at least not humans

[pliant tree]

I’m back

[worthy rose]

She was a member of the British royal airforce

[valid terrace]

Ah ok

[limpid agate]

That's nice.

[fathom tartan]

And just incase you forgot talon are people too

[limpid agate]

Have all members of the British Royal Airforce killed other people?

[worthy rose]

No, but she was quite high profile

[limpid agate]

Ok.

And?

[fathom tartan]

In stomrising tracer seems to be fighting talon

[worthy rose]

So she has likely been involved in some operations

[fathom tartan]

Witch are hummans

[worthy rose]

^^

[limpid agate]

Have you seen her kill anyone in Talon.

Eliminate != Kill.

[fathom tartan]

Iv played strom rising

[limpid agate]

That's nice.

I've seen Recall.

Winston eliminates many Talon troopers

Eliminates.

[fathom tartan]

Characters like Brig, Tracer, and Mei haven't.
@limpid agate

[limpid agate]

I can add Winston to that list then

[fathom tartan]

What hasn't tracer done

[worthy rose]

I mean, some of those talon bitches look dead

[limpid agate]

Killed humans

[worthy rose]

Looked

Idk though I feel like we shouldn’t be so bitter over the lore of a video game

[fathom tartan]

Are you saying talon troops are omnic

[valid terrace]

No but she has killed Null Sector

We don’t know the state of the defeated Talon Troops

[reef oracle]

Idk I'm of the opinion tracer has killed and would have no problem killing someone evil

Based on her background & the fact she threw her pulse bomb at widow

With intent for it to yaknow

Bomb

Her

[valid terrace]

Doesn’t mean kill her

[worthy rose]

I definitely think she has killed before

[limpid agate]

Assumption != Certainty

[worthy rose]

A person who hasn’t killed would be more hestitanr

[limpid agate]

As far as we know

[worthy rose]

Hesitant

[limpid agate]

They havent killed

[valid terrace]

A lot of the weapons in lore don’t seem very deadly

[fathom tartan]

Considering bap was what a normal talon troops was and he's humman and tracer eliminated talon troops I'd say she has killed hummans

[worthy rose]

Overwatch law is very scuffed

[limpid agate]

Wait

[worthy rose]

Lore

[limpid agate]

Those points... Are not erlated?

[worthy rose]

Sorry I haven’t slept ✌️

[limpid agate]

• Bap was a Talon troop
• Bap is human
• Tracer eliminated Talon Troops
• Therefor Tracer killed

That's not how logic works

Not only did you skip a step

In the point you were trying to make

You also made a poor assumption

[valid terrace]

The only confirmed killers I can think of atm are Reaper, Widow, Doom, Ana, and Roadhog

[limpid agate]

• Baptiste is human
• Baptiste is a Talon Troop
• Therefor, Talon Troops are human
  This is your first point.

[fathom tartan]

Your trying to dance around and say your right the fact is tracer is a solider and has most likely killed a humman

[limpid agate]

Its also... Not how logic works. I can see your reasoning, but that's not how it works

Like, example

[valid terrace]

It depends on how they were eliminated

[limpid agate]

• Pharah is human
• Pharah is a Helix soldier
• Therefor, Helix soldiers are human

[valid terrace]

We just don’t know

[limpid agate]

Which we know is false

Because Okoro exists

[fathom tartan]

Okay

Here

[limpid agate]

Eliminate != Kill

If your evidence is

"I eliminated people in game"

[valid terrace]

Oh wait Genji and Moira also kill

[limpid agate]

Or "She probably did osmething off screen we dont know about"

[reef oracle]

Hasn't Jack killed people too? With proof?

[limpid agate]

That's not evidence

You want a list of on screen killers, 1 second

[reef oracle]

Wasn't he a regular soldier with Ana?

[fathom tartan]

Bap is a example of average talon troop even being in a squad with malga a seemingly average heavy talon troop

[limpid agate]

I told you before

Mauga

Not Malga

[valid terrace]

I think he did kill in Old Soldiers

[worthy rose]

But you can’t say that she hasn’t killed for Defo the

Definite

[valid terrace]

So 8 I guess

[worthy rose]

Because where is your evidence?

[limpid agate]

On Screen Killers:
Doomfist, Genji, McCree, Reaper, Soldier, Sombra, Junkrat, Widowmaker, Roadhog, Ana, Moira, Baptiste

Off Screen but said to have killed:
Pharah, Hanzo, Symmetra

Overwatch Agents - May have killed on missions, liklihood varies:
Tracer, Torbjorn, Reinhardt, Winston, Echo

Junkertown Champion, probably killed other gladiators:
Hammond

Probably killed people, but hasn't explicitly been shown to:
Ashe

Heroes at war with Omnics, not humans:
D.Va, Zarya, Mei, Brigitte, Lucio, Mercy

Heroes not listed yet that have very little chance to be killers:
Bastion, Orisa, Sigma, Zenyatta

Here

Is your complete list

[worthy rose]

Mercy has probably killed a human, but only in self defence

[reef oracle]

Was bastion actually a part of the battle or did he shut down before taking part?

[valid terrace]

Cool

[worthy rose]

Surely in the omnic crisis some humans would have gone rogue

[valid terrace]

Shut down in the forest

[limpid agate]

Why would Mercy have killed a human

[worthy rose]

For lack of a better word

[limpid agate]

When her entire mantra

Is pacifism

[worthy rose]

Self defence perhaps ?

[limpid agate]

She's a pacifist

[valid terrace]

That’s 2 assumptions deep

[limpid agate]

Killing someone in self defense is not passifism

[worthy rose]

I doubt she’d let herself die though?

[limpid agate]

No, she wouldnt

[fathom tartan]

Well mercy kills omnics almost certainly

[peak escarp]

@reef oracle Bastion's pod didn't open when it was dropped, so it never participated in battle

[reef oracle]

Thanks

[limpid agate]

Heroes at war with Omnics, not humans:
D.Va, Zarya, Mei, Brigitte, Lucio, Mercy

[reef oracle]

Makes sense

[limpid agate]

The list is about humans

Because even in universe

There are differences between the two politically

[worthy rose]

She clearly wants peace and prefers not to kill whenever possible but seems to be willing to defend herself and others when necessary

[valid terrace]

Not with violence

[limpid agate]

She has literally never been shown to use a weapon

[worthy rose]

What else is she supposed to do on the battle field?

[limpid agate]

Heal

[valid terrace]

Heal

[worthy rose]

I mean her pistol is canon.

[limpid agate]

Is it?

[fathom tartan]

Yeah

[worthy rose]

If she gets isolated and is under attacked

Attack

[fathom tartan]

She has a pistol

[limpid agate]

I dont remember ever seeing it.

[worthy rose]

Then what is she supposed to do?

[limpid agate]

I might have forgotten something though.

[valid terrace]

Heal

[limpid agate]

But I dont think we've seen her pistol

Also

You're acting like that's a thing that never happens

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desmond_Doss

Here you go

[fathom tartan]

Okay so you just have never played uprising nor storm rising

[limpid agate]

Real live combat medic

[worthy rose]

The only ability said not to be canon is her res

[limpid agate]

Who doesnt carry a weapon

[reef oracle]

Battle medics do tend to carry weapons, but they're very well protected

[limpid agate]

Okay so you just have never played uprising nor storm rising
Gameplay != Lore

Battle medics do tend to carry weapons, but they're very well protected
See my wikipedia link

[reef oracle]

I know about Desmond

[valid terrace]

She’s there to patch them up so there’s a better chance of survival

[limpid agate]

Great,

So what's the problem

[reef oracle]

I agree with you that she hasn't killed

[worthy rose]

But that link is not Mercy.

[limpid agate]

So

[worthy rose]

She definitely has a pistol.

The only ability confirmed not to be canon is her res

[limpid agate]

Source

[reef oracle]

She likely has a weapon, like most battle medics, but battle medics are generally extremely well protected

[worthy rose]

I said confirmed

Exactly

[limpid agate]

Okay

[valid terrace]

No ability is canon until otherwise stated

[limpid agate]

So if its confirmed

Provide the source

[reef oracle]

So I highly doubt there has ever been a situation

[valid terrace]

Or seen

[limpid agate]

If its confirmed, it should be easy to find your source.

[reef oracle]

Where she would need to shoot on someone

[limpid agate]

Because I can tell you with absolute certainty

[peak escarp]

her res is canon, it just doesn't work the way people think it does

[limpid agate]

Your confirmation is wrong

We have seen res

[worthy rose]

Michael chu has confirmed thatres is not canon

[limpid agate]

We have not seen her pistol

Again

Source

Because your source doesn't exist

[fathom tartan]

It's a four person op

[worthy rose]

In the way that people think

Taiga you are so bitter

It’s actually disgusting lmao

[limpid agate]

If you want to make comments and say them with certainty

[valid terrace]

She’s just trying to keep the truth afloat

[limpid agate]

You should be ready to supply evidence

^

[worthy rose]

I’m not saying them with certainty

Whatsoever

[limpid agate]

Don't spread misinformation

[fathom tartan]

She has a pistol I'm sure the three are good but I'm sure mercy would help

[limpid agate]

She definitely has a pistol.

The only ability confirmed not to be canon is her res

I said confirmed

Michael chu has confirmed thatres is not canon

[peak escarp]

we've never seen her use the pistol

[worthy rose]

I’m just debating. I never said anything was completely canon

[limpid agate]

If this is not certainty

I don't know what is

[worthy rose]

But doctor six has said on the forum that res is not canon

[valid terrace]

You can say that Mercy might have her pistol in canon don’t say she definitely does and is ready to kill

[limpid agate]

Definitely, Confirmed, Confirmed, Confirmed

[worthy rose]

As far as I’m aware

[peak escarp]

we've never even seen the pistol in canon

[limpid agate]

I am 100% positive

[worthy rose]

Mercy isn’t in a lot of canon materials

[limpid agate]

Doctor Six has posted on the forums

That Mercy can rez

[worthy rose]

I just sent you the screenshot

[peak escarp]

resurrect, as in, reviving the dead, is not canon

but what Mercy does in the game and in the lore isn't reviving the dead

[limpid agate]

We see her use it on Mei

In Zero Hour

[peak escarp]

it's resuscitating someone who is incapacitated

I'd share the gif but it's 4MB and my internet doesn't want to cooperate

[worthy rose]

What I meant by res isn’t canon is that she cannot bring people back who are dead

[limpid agate]

Correct.

She can't.

No one is saying she can.

[worthy rose]

But she can help someone who is gravely inured

Injured

[limpid agate]

Yes.

And she uses her "Ressurect" to do that in Zero Hour

To Mei

[peak escarp]

I may have said "rez isn't canon" in the past, but that was before we had an example from the lore of what Resurrect actually does

[limpid agate]

In summary:

• We have seen rez. It doesn't bring the dead back to life.
• We have not seen the pistol
• Mercy is a pacifist.
• Real world pacifist combat medics (AKA, people like Mercy) exist and don't bring guns to the battlefield
• Mercy killing a human being goes against her entire character of first do no harm pacifism.
  Therefor:
• Mercy having the pistol is not a certainty
• Mercy killing someone is so unprobable, its worth existing.

You cannot say impossible ever unless the characters explicitly say it never happened.

its improbable that Jack Morrison has ever been to the moon. How improbable? So much so its effectively impossible

Given what we know of Mercy

Its the same for her.

There is nothing wrong with discussion or debate, if it comes to the conclusion of developing understanding of a matter.

There is a problem when people make illogical leaps in assumption, fabricate evidence, or state something they are unsure of as something that is correct.

[reef oracle]

Also isn't her pistol in game a biotic weapon?

[limpid agate]

In game, no.

It seems to be the same kind of weapon as D.Va's sidearm

[reef oracle]

Ah, okay

[valid terrace]

The Junker arena is for mechs right?

Or anyone

[limpid agate]

Mostly

I think they do Mech vs Mech, Mech vs Omnic, and Man vs Man

!!wiki Scrapyard

[twilit nacelle]

For more information about the game, please refer to the wiki: https://overwatch.gamepedia.com/Scrapyard

[limpid agate]

Other forms of combat include human vs. human and human vs. omnic matches

[valid terrace]

That’s what I thought cool

[reef oracle]

Lol, I like "no rules!" "But also we only want very specific matches"

Makes complete sense, I just think it's funny

[valid terrace]

I think the mech ones are more of a spectacle than the normal matches

Rather than proving of strength

[limpid agate]

The Junkerqueen was a mech champion

[valid terrace]

Interesting

Then I’d hate to see her outside of a mech if we play as her

[limpid agate]

I would be okay with out of mech

If its only some out of mech.

And she gets into it in some capacity

[reef oracle]

Reverse dva

[limpid agate]

Sure.

On the other hand

I would love it if her mech was an alternative "mech"

[reef oracle]

Normally out of mech, ult is her fighting mech

[peak escarp]

like an exosuit

like from Alien?

[limpid agate]

Sure

[reef oracle]

That thing looks very tall

[limpid agate]

Or the Recluse concept.

[peak escarp]

I was just going to say

[limpid agate]

If you remove the mouth laser

Junkerqueen can easily fit in as Recluse

And even then

You can probably keep it in some roundabout tech manner

Like... 1 second

I can't find a visual of what I want to show

So Ill show a half visual and explain it

[valid terrace]

The most mad max style thing they haven’t added to a junker yet would probably be a flamethrower

So that’s where my money is

[limpid agate]

Like this, but over her mouth. It can be turned on and off. And if you yell through it, you get some sound into laser stuff.

[reef oracle]

More burning dot introduced in the game?

[limpid agate]

Could be Sonic tech

[reef oracle]

Awesome

Can't wait

[limpid agate]

I think that would be a good possibility to make "Mouth Laser" exist in a Junkerqueen Recluse

Its convoluted existing tech

[reef oracle]

I don't think it would make sense

For her as recluse

[limpid agate]

I mean, she can be Recluse without the mouth laser

[reef oracle]

Maybe with a more solid body

[limpid agate]

I was trying to think of a way to keep that, and remain in universe

Maybe with a more solid body
Wait what the hell are you talking about?

[reef oracle]

But leaving most of your human form in the open in a mech fight seems like a bad plan

[limpid agate]

Of course it does

So do most things Junkers do

[reef oracle]

Exoskeleton type "mechs" seem like they would be a great way to die

[limpid agate]

Oh yeah 100%

[reef oracle]

Alright that's a valid counterpoint tbh

[limpid agate]

If anything, that makes her more impressive

[reef oracle]

I forget they're not exactly logical people

[limpid agate]

Champion in such a flimsy death machine

I'd make that my leader

Aint nobody fucking with that

[reef oracle]

Ultimate plot twist: her old mech is retired and her new mech is a giant rideable riptire to spite junkrat

[limpid agate]

iirc, Junkrat based the riptire on Wrecking Ball

[reef oracle]

Except she probably couldn't care less about him

[limpid agate]

I dont remember if that was fact or speculation

[reef oracle]

Besides the whole shoot on sight order

That seems like it would make sense at the very least

[limpid agate]

Nope, I was right

Its true

[peak escarp]

it was said by one of the devs during an art stream, iirc

[limpid agate]

Yeah

[reef oracle]

Yay learning

[peak escarp]

when they were revealing a Wrecking Ball skin

we know Junkrat is a big WB fan

you can see him in the crowd in Wrecking Ball's origin

[fathom tartan]

Wait did anyone read what i said about hog earlier

[reef oracle]

?

[valid terrace]

The belly button thing?

[fathom tartan]

Yes

It has forever ruined how I see it

[valid terrace]

Lol I think it’s just genetics and bad life choices

[fathom tartan]

Yeah like radiation

[reef oracle]

Did any humans besides baldrich (or whatever his name is) die in rein's short?

From rein screwing around

[valid terrace]

His ALF skin is almost the same body wise so I don’t think it would make a tumor like that

[peak escarp]

probably some of the other crusaders/soldiers

[fathom tartan]

Probably some of reuns group

*reins

[reef oracle]

But only probably

[peak escarp]

we don't see what happens to them

[reef oracle]

Alright

[peak escarp]

the female crusader has an OR14 jump on her

[reef oracle]

Was just wondering if it was known as fact or not

Cuz I'd totally consider him a killer for that

[valid terrace]

iirc we see the female crusader after

[reef oracle]

Accidental killing is still killing

[fathom tartan]

Yeah

The very next scene

[reef oracle]

But if it was only the other crusader then he fine

[fathom tartan]

She kinda just gets up

[valid terrace]

If he hadn’t learned his lesson there would have been more

[fathom tartan]

Trying to follow the female crusader is like some shenanigans

[reef oracle]

Aite it's 3:30am now

I need sleep for real

Peace

[fathom tartan]

No go watch honor and glory and follow the female crusader

If you wanna hurt your head more try and keep track of where there are at all point of the short

[frosty shell]

As for the Bastion reference to doctor who, he beeps in a way that sounds like "EXTERMINATE"

I'll find it

https://youtu.be/e-Fa89HvqWQ?t=107

[fathom tartan]

Witch is it

Oh the last one

Yeah that definitely sounds like a dalek

[stone flame]

Hi do anybody want to be friends

[fathom tartan]

That sounds like a #general-discussion

Doctor what is your rank on this discord

That's not a lore thing hold on

What do y'all think is the extent of sig's powers

[pliant sparrow]

How so?

[limpid agate]

What do y'all think is the extent of sig's powers
Don't know. We need to see more.

He can create singularities.

But I dont think he can create a black hole that will consume the planet

Even if the physics or logic suggest otherwise.

[pliant sparrow]

So wormholes maybe?

[spice river]

sigma's story vid is by far my favorite

[onyx panther]

Same here

I particularly enjoy the music selection

[fathom tartan]

From what I can see he almost has full control of gravity

Controlling the density of objects

This in my mind makes him one of the in-cannon powerful characters

If he did want to control the world like doomfist he coudl probably do it with ease

[peak escarp]

possibly

we don't know how well he can control his powers

[fathom tartan]

Not even reaper would stand a real chance because he could just condense the air

[peak escarp]

and personality wise, he doesn't seem like the type of person who would be good in a fight

[fathom tartan]

Yeah

But if he were to get a temper it would be scary

I think that why they just keep him distanced and dont tell himself stuff instead of trying to pull a widow type thing

I think to some extent they themselves are scared of his power

[peak escarp]

yeah

they don't seem to have conditioned him, just lied to him

[fathom tartan]

Yeah they didn't

Because they wouldn't wanna deal with angry gravity God

From what I can tell he's the only one with like real superpowers

The only one I would even technically count is reaper and moria

[peak escarp]

you don't think he would be angry when he finds out they've been using him?

why technically?

and why not Soldier?

[fathom tartan]

Because technically there just mutants in a way

Soilder is a super solider

[peak escarp]

he still has superhuman powers

[fathom tartan]

Reyes and moria have the ghost stuff

[peak escarp]

none of it is supernatural

[timid beacon]

did someone say soldier?

[fathom tartan]

No

[timid beacon]

damn

[worthy rose]

Everything in ovw is explained with pseudoscience

[peak escarp]

right

[fathom tartan]

Sig isn't really explained he just has his mind spit then bam

He can control very elements of our reality

Hmmm

[peak escarp]

his explanation was that he was doing an experiment with a black hole, something went wrong, and he ended up with a fractured mind and the ability to manipulate gravity

pseudoscience

[cosmic crest]

Are we sure it's not his suit that let's him control gravity?

[fathom tartan]

Considering it changes no

[cosmic crest]

Changes?

[timid beacon]

how do his hyperspheres come back to him?

[fathom tartan]

Yes

[worthy rose]

He has power over it without the suit, can he actually control it? Idk

[peak escarp]

Between his ravings about the patterns of the universe, the psychic damage he sustained, and the gravitic anomalies happening around him, he was deemed unsafe and detained for years under the name "Subject Sigma."

[worthy rose]

They dont explain what the suit is for

[peak escarp]

the gavity manipulation is caused by him, not his suit

[fathom tartan]

So he isn't naked

[cosmic crest]

How do we know he can do it without the suit?

[peak escarp]

the suit may help him control it, or it may just be a suit

[fathom tartan]

Between his ravings about the patterns of the universe, the psychic damage he sustained, and the gravitic anomalies happening around him, he was deemed unsafe and detained for years under the name "Subject Sigma."
@peak escarp

[worthy rose]

^^^^

[fathom tartan]

Read draco read

[cosmic crest]

It's rather vague

Says there were anomalies arounds him, he wasn't necessarily causing them

[peak escarp]

"the gravitic anomalies happening around him"

[fathom tartan]

Well they dont give you much in a asylum

[peak escarp]

they're connected to him, not what he's wearing

[fathom tartan]

If mercy were to touch him coudl it heal his mind

[peak escarp]

unknown

the mental damage could still persist even if physical damage is healed

[fathom tartan]

If his mind is healed will the powers fade

These are questions without answers

[cosmic crest]

Mercy isn't a therapist

It's not really her field

[fathom tartan]

But it's brian damage

Not a disorder

[peak escarp]

the brain is weird

[cosmic crest]

I think it's a lot more complicated than that

[peak escarp]

and yeah, complicated

[fathom tartan]

Well if the physical brain damage is fixed they could have a better chance at helping the non physical brian damage

Ugh

Why cant ow have sig

[peak escarp]

Talon got to him first

[cosmic crest]

It says he received psychic damage, not the same as brain damage

[fathom tartan]

Ow needs to fund and help sig

Winston and sig would be great scientist buddies

And I'm sure Winston would like to know more about dr. Winston

[worthy rose]

Its implied he now perceives reality differently, at least from my understanding

[peak escarp]

he seems to hear the music of the universe

[fathom tartan]

That always reminds me of the master from doctor who

Yet sigma enjoys the sound and it drove the master insane

But the melody sig refers to is a b flat

It has been theriosed that a black hole makes a b flat sound

[timid beacon]

why does it always go back to dr. who

[worthy rose]

I think it's less that he enjoys it and more that it's become a familiar tune to him

[fathom tartan]

And the music you hear in sig's ultimate is actually a b flat

Its a reference to real life

[cosmic crest]

Yes but from what I remember, the sounds that black holes make is meant to be stupidly quiet

[fathom tartan]

Or real life black hole theories

[peak escarp]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musica_universalis

it could be this

[fathom tartan]

Well considering sig's ultimate is a b flat

[worthy rose]

Well its apparent he hears actual music

[cosmic crest]

I don't think it means anything, it's a part of his condition

It adds to the tragedy

It's all in his head

[worthy rose]

Yeah we dont know if it's an auditory hallucination or if there's actual music only he can hear

[fathom tartan]

I don't wanna sound like a broken record

But a black hole literally makes a b flat

[peak escarp]

okay

[timid beacon]

we still on sig?

[fathom tartan]

I think

[timid beacon]

nice

[fathom tartan]

But I'm about to switch it off his ultimate if I get my train of thought ready

[timid beacon]

have fun with that

[fathom tartan]

Oh yes

Okay so sigma

Do you think he knows he's being used

And kept

[worthy rose]

no

[fathom tartan]

Do you think talon is the help he wanted

[peak escarp]

we're told he doesn't know

[fathom tartan]

At the start of his short he says release me

Or well he says it backwards in dutch

[cosmic crest]

He was likely referring to the asylum

[peak escarp]

it's for dramatic effect

[fathom tartan]

So did talon pick up on that

[worthy rose]

Talon isn't the group to be freeing sigma for his benefit, its for theirs. I'm sure they saw him as a potential weapon to be used.

[fathom tartan]

Of course they did

But talon is a group of people furthering there own goals

But I'm sure if word were to get out that they wont let sig share his research it may get him upset

Ow will probably discover him in some way

Eventually

[worthy rose]

I feel like he's less prioritized about sharing his research and more about 'hey let's figure out all i can do with these new fancy powers'

[timid beacon]

yup

[fathom tartan]

He's mostly into the research

The powers just help him in his research

[timid beacon]

i like when you're playing hlc and he said i never thought i would be back here. It's beautiful, and cold."

[worthy rose]

i love the tone of the "and cold" part

[fathom tartan]

Probably because he ain't wearing shoes

[timid beacon]

i don't think so but maybe

[worthy rose]

well i mean, the moon is pretty damn cold

especially the darkside

[timid beacon]

i mean he was locked up in a probably air tight room so he might have never felt cold before

[peak escarp]

he was in space before he got locked up

[worthy rose]

^^^

[timid beacon]

oh yea and he felt how cold deep space was

[peak escarp]

not deep space, he was only on the ISS

[timid beacon]

well still it's space

[worthy rose]

moon base

not the ISS

[timid beacon]

no cause in lijang we see the ISS sig was on

[peak escarp]

Believing that he was close to achieving his goal, he performed his most important experiment on an international space station.

not the ISS

[worthy rose]

Well then he was on both

[cosmic crest]

"an" ISS?

[peak escarp]

but an international space station

one run by Lucheng

[worthy rose]

But before his experiment he was on HLC

[peak escarp]

you can see a projection of it about Lijiang Towers Control Center

[cosmic crest]

there must be multiple in the OW world

[peak escarp]

you can even see warning signs around one part of it

[timid beacon]

that is where sigma was doing his experiment

[peak escarp]

probably

[timid beacon]

most likely

[worthy rose]

one of them at least

[fathom tartan]

Lucio

Has no content

For lore

We know alot because of voice lines and stuff but he doesn't have much