lore-discussion

[young knoll]

one that can pretty much outcompete us, without much difficulty

[fathom tartan]

Damn

[cosmic crest]

Unlike irl predujuces, being anti-omnic is not completely unjustified. They are machines, and they killed hundreads of millions. I'm honestly surprised they weren't all destroyed after the crisis.

[peak escarp]

his tone of voice in this line makes me think he wouldn't be too happy about Bastion, but would trust Torbjorn if he said Bastion was harmless

[fathom tartan]

Brig is probably gonna be worried that her dad has been spending time with a bastion

[worthy rose]

would Mcree every join back Overwatch after he’s done with his “business”

[young knoll]

I think so

he seems to like them

[hallow grove]

when he found echo he told her that they called him back

[worthy rose]

What path is Soldier going down

[hallow grove]

and that they needed her too

[peak escarp]

Soldier is focused on his mission to find out what happened to Overwatch

[worthy rose]

Oh

[peak escarp]

he thinks Talon was involved, and he wants to find out the truth

[young knoll]

were they, really?

[worthy rose]

Always Talon man

[young knoll]

I mean, it seems like it was to a degree

[cosmic crest]

I think Blackwatch and Talon might of merged

[young knoll]

but was it mostly them?

[peak escarp]

Blackwatch was part of Overwatch

[hallow grove]

I think Blackwatch and Talon might of merged
don't think so

[peak escarp]

after Retribution, Blackwatch was suspended

[worthy rose]

In the animated short where Soldier rescued that little girl was that Sombra?

[hallow grove]

no

[peak escarp]

some Blackwatch members ended up in Talon after Overwatch was disbanded

[cosmic crest]

I mean, shortly before the attack on Switzerland

[hallow grove]

reyes and moira were the big ones

[peak escarp]

@worthy rose the girl in the short is Alejandra

[worthy rose]

Who’s that

;-;

[hallow grove]

[peak escarp]

https://overwatch.gamepedia.com/Alejandra

[fathom tartan]

The girl

[peak escarp]

she lives in Dorado, at the bakery

Sombra is a customer there

[worthy rose]

Ohhh

[hallow grove]

did not know that lol

[worthy rose]

Sombra is so cool

[young knoll]

everyone is connected in Overwatch

someone knows someone who knows someone

Alejandra could have just been a random person

but Blizzard had to connect it somehow

probably Sombra's cousin or something

[peak escarp]

she appears in the comic Searching

Zarya goes there looking for Sombra

[young knoll]

yeah, I remember

[peak escarp]

it's implied that Alejandra tells Zarya Sombra's name

[young knoll]

that I did not remember

why would they know Sombra's real name?

[worthy rose]

Is Sombra really with Widow and Reaper or is it just to get what she wants

[cosmic crest]

I still think the bakery was Sombra's foster home

[hallow grove]

sombra plays by her own rules pretty much

[fathom tartan]

I feel zen is hiding something

[cosmic crest]

@worthy rose the latter

[worthy rose]

?

[peak escarp]

they know Sombra's name because she's a local

she grew up in Dorado

the adults probably remember her, and the kids overheard them

[young knoll]

that is not covering your tracks very well

[cosmic crest]

either way, she had to live somewhere

[peak escarp]

well she can't erase people's memories

[worthy rose]

Is Widow ever gonna come to her senses

[peak escarp]

she could kill them, but she seems to like that bakery

[timid beacon]

does soldier is gay?

[young knoll]

umm

yes?

[young knoll]

are you asking if soldier is gay?

[peak escarp]

!!shitposting @timid beacon

[twilit nacelle]

@timid beacon Shitposting will result in a loss of access.

[cosmic crest]

might of just been a typo

[timid beacon]

what?

[worthy rose]

maybe

[timid beacon]

how is that shitposting

[young knoll]

wait, is he?

[worthy rose]

no

[young knoll]

or is he bisexual?

[worthy rose]

why would soldier be gay lol

[fathom tartan]

Um

Sorry to bust your bubble but he is gay

[cosmic crest]

he is gay, read Bastet to see

[worthy rose]

Don’t tell me you ship Soldier and Reaper...

[fathom tartan]

No

[worthy rose]

Send the link

[fathom tartan]

He really is

[cosmic crest]

it is pinned

[worthy rose]

he’s actually gays

*gay?

[fathom tartan]

Yes

[cosmic crest]

Why does it matter?

[peak escarp]

he is

[timid beacon]

it's said that he had a boyfriend named vincent

[cosmic crest]

@timid beacon if you knew that then why did you need to ask?

[timid beacon]

i just wanted to see if i could start something and it worked

[peak escarp]

https://twitter.com/westofhouse/status/1082394625837428736

Michael Chu 🏝🍑 (@westofhouse)

Thanks for all the messages about “Bastet”!

Jack and Vincent were in a romantic relationship many years ago. Both identify as gay. ❤️

Retweets

9685

Likes

26376

Twitter

[young knoll]

ok, guess he was then

[peak escarp]

that's why I said you were shitposting

[worthy rose]

I don’t have a problem with it but I just wouldn’t expect it to be soldier out of all people

[peak escarp]

"does soldier is gay" is a reference to a meme

[young knoll]

ah

did not know that

[cosmic crest]

He is very manly, goes against the stereotype

[timid beacon]

sorry i didn't know that was shitposting

[peak escarp]

this is a serious discussion channel

[young knoll]

what does "trying to start something" sound like to you?

[worthy rose]

wow

[peak escarp]

says so at the top

[fathom tartan]

He didn't know

[timid beacon]

that part of the lore but ok

[worthy rose]

Is it just him and Tracer

[peak escarp]

yes

[worthy rose]

or is there more

[peak escarp]

they're the only confirmed sexualities we have

[fathom tartan]

Um lemme think

[young knoll]

Lucio too, iirc

[worthy rose]

Lucio?!

[peak escarp]

Lucio's hasn't been mentioned

[young knoll]

didn't it say on his bio that he traveled with his boyfriend?

[peak escarp]

no

[fathom tartan]

Lucio isnt confirmed but I didn't have my suspicious

[worthy rose]

I never suspected Lucio

He flirts with D.Va in a voice line unless he’s bi

[fathom tartan]

Well okay so if anyone plays fighting games you may be familiar with sonic fox witch is a gay black furry and lucio's snow fox skin had me suspicious

[cosmic crest]

Most characters are probably straight, because that's how it is irl

[peak escarp]

Snow Fox has nothing to do with sonicfox

[fathom tartan]

But sonic as in sound

[timid beacon]

i just didn't know that saying that was considered shitposting so sorry

[peak escarp]

it's fine

just be glad the mods aren't around, they get pretty touchy about it

[worthy rose]

Off topic but have you guys ever had fried octopus?

[young knoll]

that is more for general, isn't it?

[fathom tartan]

Is this gonna twist into a lore thing

[worthy rose]

oh sorry

[young knoll]

yeah, just not sure the mods like it

[peak escarp]

like it says

!!loreonly

[twilit nacelle]

This channel is for serious discussion strictly related to the lore of Overwatch. Shitposting will result in a loss of access.

[young knoll]

looking around again, did not find the thing about touring I thought, so it looks like Lucio is unconfirmed

my bad

[worthy rose]

Would Widow ever come to her senses

[fathom tartan]

Doctor ik youd denied me but I get suspicious because of my overthinking about the iris being some kind or a simalar to thing of a god program

[young knoll]

I am pretty sure it is just a religious symbol

[peak escarp]

@worthy rose what do you mean "come to her senses"?

[worthy rose]

Like would the brainwashing wear off

[peak escarp]

she has free will

[worthy rose]

Oh

[fathom tartan]

Somewhat

[worthy rose]

So why does she choose to do this

[peak escarp]

she is just conditioned to only feel pleasure/positive emotions from killing

[fathom tartan]

Kidna free will

[worthy rose]

Wow

[peak escarp]

imagine if killing was the only thing that ever made you happy

you'd want to keep doing it

[young knoll]

how is that free will?

[timid beacon]

nah

[worthy rose]

true

[cosmic crest]

I wouldn't desbribe that as free will

[peak escarp]

she could stop

[young knoll]

how do you know?

[peak escarp]

but she'd never feel pleasure ever again

[young knoll]

has it been stated?

[cosmic crest]

They twisted her into a mind set that suited them

[peak escarp]

well they're not controlling her 24/7

we see her visit Gerard's grave

and she's remodelling her house

[fathom tartan]

She's conditioned and then had her heart slowed to almost never feel emotional

[worthy rose]

Her husband?

[peak escarp]

yes

the one she killed

[young knoll]

that doesn't necessarily mean free will

[peak escarp]

her first kill

okay then

[worthy rose]

overwatch has such a sad side

[peak escarp]

she has autonomy

[fathom tartan]

Do you think if her aderline where to kick in enough it could over throw her slowed heart

[peak escarp]

is that a better term?

[young knoll]

I have no idea

[peak escarp]

autonomy is the ability to act for oneself

[young knoll]

it seems it is really unclear exactly what they did

[cosmic crest]

yeah, that sounds better

[young knoll]

I suppose that works with the limited knowledge we have

[fathom tartan]

She has somewhat remorse or grief of some kind because she dose vista her husband's grave

[peak escarp]

Two weeks later she killed Gérard in his sleep.

Her mission complete, Amélie returned to Talon, and they completed the process of turning her into a living weapon. She was given extensive training in the covert arts, and then her physiology was altered, drastically slowing her heart, which turned her skin cold and blue and numbed her ability to experience human emotion. Amélie was gone.```

she remembers her husband, and she remembers loving him

[worthy rose]

is reaper with talon?

[peak escarp]

yes

[worthy rose]

Sombra?

[peak escarp]

for now

she's somewhat freelance

[worthy rose]

O

[fathom tartan]

Okay so did they just look at her skin and be like okay seems normal

[worthy rose]

lol

[young knoll]

no, read it

[worthy rose]

oh wait sorry serious

[peak escarp]

she wasn't purple yet

[young knoll]

they finished after she killed him

[peak escarp]

she looked normal when she went back to Gerard

[fathom tartan]

Ik she wasn't purple but her skin still looks pale

In talon skin

[cosmic crest]

I'm pretty sure human reconditioning is real, so what they did to Amelie is somewhat realsitic.

[fathom tartan]

Kinda

[peak escarp]

if you had just been through a traumatic experience, you'd be a little pale too

[young knoll]

do we have an idea of how advanced neorology has gotten at this point?

[fathom tartan]

Still no one saw her heart rate was slowed by cheking her vitals

[young knoll]

could they like, implant thoughts or remotely alter brain chemistry?

[peak escarp]

her heart rate wasn't slowed yet

read again

they only programmed her as sleeper agent

then she killed Gerard

THEN they slowed her heart and made her a sniper

[cosmic crest]

like I said, what happened to Amelie was likely more realistic. They reconditioned her through physical and mental torture.

[fathom tartan]

They slowed her heart twice

I dont remember where I saw it from but I remember her first dise not being enough witch is her talon stuff then again

*dose

[peak escarp]

it does not say that anywhere

[worthy rose]

how come they sent tracer to stop the assassination in my opinion Genji would’ve been more suitable

[peak escarp]

they didn't send Tracer

[worthy rose]

Was she just there?

[peak escarp]

Tracer was just there at the rally, saw something up and took Widowmaker on her own

[cosmic crest]

yes

[fathom tartan]

Yes

[peak escarp]

she is a supporter of the Shambali

[worthy rose]

Oh

[peak escarp]

Tracer said Omnic Rights

[worthy rose]

welp she tried

[fathom tartan]

It was either her or the omnic

[young knoll]

is there any indication that Omnics will actually manage to integrate successfully?

[peak escarp]

Numbani

[fathom tartan]

Yeah

[peak escarp]

humans and omnics are equal there

[young knoll]

also, is there anyway for Omnics to "come back" after death?

[worthy rose]

im gonna go for now I’ll most likely be back soon but cya

[fathom tartan]

Um

I don't think so

[peak escarp]

I don't think they can

there hasn't been any that have

[young knoll]

just curious, since it would probably be easier to do for a robot than a brain

then again, the omnics might be just as complex

[peak escarp]

if their motherboard/harddrive/whatever is destroyed, they're dead

[young knoll]

could they have backups?

[peak escarp]

same as a human getting their brain damaged

maybe, but we haven't had any evidence of that

[young knoll]

ok

[peak escarp]

and even if they could, the Shambali believe omnics are unique individuals with souls

I don't think they'd want backups

[young knoll]

not all Omnics are Shambali, though

I imagine some would like to not die

[cosmic crest]

The Shmbali are a bit weird for me to digest because irl I don't even think humans have souls in the spiritual sense (I'm an Athiest)

[young knoll]

well, it makes no sense to assume that in their universe either

[peak escarp]

I thought you were asking about Mondatta having a backup

[worthy rose]

I’m back

[young knoll]

ah, no

[worthy rose]

Oof ur atheist

[peak escarp]

well in the general case, omnics might have backups

[young knoll]

hmmm

[peak escarp]

but we haven't heard anything about it

[limpid agate]

Orisa remembers when she first died

And Bastion was able to read a 30 year old corpse

[young knoll]

oh yeah, she did didn't she

well then

[worthy rose]

What is Orisa’s story

[limpid agate]

But that's just memory

That's not personality

The personality that is Mondatta might be dead

Even if the memories still exist

[young knoll]

what is personality if not memory?

hmm

[limpid agate]

Orisa's personality was born when Efi gave it to her

She doesn't have the personality from when she first died

[young knoll]

this is confirmed?

[peak escarp]

personality is the combination of memory and experience

it's something developed over a lifetime

[limpid agate]

!!loreHeroes orisa

[twilit nacelle]

To learn more, please visit https://playoverwatch.com/en-us/heroes/orisa#story

[peak escarp]

omnics can have personalities designed for them, like Orisa having her personality module designed by Efi

[limpid agate]

Efi repaired and reconfigured the robot and installed a personality core that she had designed herself.

[peak escarp]

the novel should give more detail on that

[young knoll]

so she has the memories of the previous iteration, but a different personality

would that mean she technically is not one of the free will Omnics?

[cosmic crest]

This is what makes Echo interesting, she developed her personality over time more like a human.

[young knoll]

or the ones thought to have free will

[limpid agate]

one of the free will Omnics

This is a common misconception

There is no

Free will omnics

Non free will omnics

There are just omnics

[young knoll]

so the ones controlled by the god program are not Omnics at all?

[limpid agate]

There are no omnics controlled by a god program

The only god program we know of was Anubis

The only Omnic we know it controlled was Okoro

And Okoro killed himself before he could be controlled

[young knoll]

so it was controlling a dead omnic

[limpid agate]

No

!!loreComics

[twilit nacelle]

Comics:
Train Hopper: https://bit.ly/2vaOY0I
Dragon Slayer: https://bit.ly/2GpRZRk
Going Legit: https://bit.ly/2InZUkm
A Better World: https://bit.ly/2DeJGpK
Mission Statement: https://bit.ly/2UFLC5o
Destroyer: https://bit.ly/2XcYZ9G
Legacy: https://bit.ly/2DgM1jQ
Old Soldiers: https://bit.ly/2KLILTV
Junkenstein: https://bit.ly/2Is3WZ4
Reflections: https://bit.ly/2IoZQkr
Binary: https://bit.ly/2IzNvJy
Uprising: https://bit.ly/2UCymhE
Masquerade: https://bit.ly/2IzNTI0
Wasted Land: https://bit.ly/2DeKB9G
Searching: https://bit.ly/2Gh3jy6
Retribution: https://bit.ly/2XePmHG

Mini-Comics:
Return of Junkenstein: https://bit.ly/2Gqp7Z8
Yeti Hunt: https://bit.ly/2VPmxRI

[cosmic crest]

But Bastions and OR-14's are built solely to fight and are programmed to follow orders, dosen't sound like free will

[limpid agate]

Everything we know about God Programs

And Okoro

Is in Mission Statement

Its just Anubis

If there are more, we dont know about them.

They are not the orchestrators of the crisis

They are not responsible for everything you think they are

Its just Anubis

[fathom tartan]

The iris just seems bigger than we suspect

[young knoll]

so the line about Anubis being one of the god programs does not imply other ones?

[limpid agate]

The Iris is a different discussion entirely

You can speculate about it.

[fathom tartan]

Wait

Taiga can you papt a pic sombra's web thing please

I dont think I can put pics in

[fathom tartan]

See the iris is in the middle

[limpid agate]

THat's speculation

[young knoll]

so it is not the case that Okoro was going to be taken over by Anubis before dying?

[fathom tartan]

The anubis connection between them seems suspicious

[peak escarp]

@young knoll he was

[cosmic crest]

I really want to know what that conspiracy is

[young knoll]

so why would it be that there are only all the same Omnics

and not free will and non free will ones

it seems like it is implied that Anubis, at the very least, probably had quite a few enslaved

[fathom tartan]

Wait

[peak escarp]

omnics by definition have free will

[fathom tartan]

Why is ana connected to talon

[young knoll]

is the distinction that they would have had free will if not for Anubis' meddling?

[peak escarp]

Okoro had free will, Anubis was trying to control him, so Okoro killed himself to prevent Anubis from using him to kill his squad

[young knoll]

so he had free wil

will*

[peak escarp]

yes

all omnics do

[young knoll]

by preventing his will from being taken over

that seems

unfree

[peak escarp]

he could have just let Anubis control him without resisting

but he chose to put a stop to it

[young knoll]

how is will free if it can be controlled at all?

it isn't merely coercion in this cae

[cosmic crest]

@fathom tartan she is linked to Widow, who shot her in the eye

[young knoll]

case*

[peak escarp]

you're arguing in circles

Anubis has the ability to control omnics

[fathom tartan]

@cosmic crest there is someone in between them

[peak escarp]

probably Gerard

[cosmic crest]

sounds about right

we didn't know what he looked like at the time of Sombra's reveal so they left it ambiguous

[young knoll]

what I mean is, how do you have free will if it can be taken over? that seems to be more akin to programming

[fathom tartan]

Ight

[peak escarp]

omnics are programs

[cosmic crest]

Can't human free will be taken over? Look at Widow

[peak escarp]

programs can be hijacked

[cosmic crest]

Machines can be hacked, but a human mind can be "hacked" in a sense also.

You can be manipulated and coerced into doing things you wouldn't otherwise

[fathom tartan]

Um

[peak escarp]

Widowmaker's condition is probably similar to pavlovian conditioning

[young knoll]

I think coercion is technically different

[fathom tartan]

Humman "hacking" isn't a fast thing

[peak escarp]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_conditioning

[young knoll]

that implies a situation that you don't want to participate in, but do, still possessing free will

but if your will can be controlled by another person directly

I think that would not really be free will then, right?

[cosmic crest]

This has horrifying implications, considering they conditioned her to gain pleasure from killing

[peak escarp]

temporarily being controlled doesn't mean you stop having free will

[fathom tartan]

Can I do a funny

[young knoll]

I am pretty sure free will means self determination

[fathom tartan]

I'll just go to ow chat

[young knoll]

any form of direct control seems to imply not having it

I guess this has gone a bit off the rails though

[limpid agate]

what I mean is, how do you have free will if it can be taken over? that seems to be more akin to programming
Free will doesn't mean immunity to control. Free will means free will.

If Overwatch was a world where human mind control existed.

That doesn't mean humans don't have free will

[fathom tartan]

This seem like a philosophical discussion

[limpid agate]

It just means those particular humans lost their free will.

[young knoll]

so how is free will free if it can be taken away?

I don't think coercion counts

but if I can be literally turned into a puppet

that isn't freedom

and if I always could be

then it seems I never was free

[cosmic crest]

Just because something is free dosen't mean it can't be taken away

[fathom tartan]

Overwatch: the philosophical journey

[limpid agate]

Its not even an Overwatch exclusive thing

Like.

Star Trek

Does Captain Picard have free will?

Or Captain Kirk?

[young knoll]

I am not sure, in lore

[limpid agate]

They do

[young knoll]

do the Q control them?

[limpid agate]

But the Borg exist in that universe.

And the Borg are capable of assimilation.

Just because the Borg exist doesn't mean they lack free will

Likewise, you have free will now.

If someone put a bullet in your head, you wouldn't have free will anymore. Because you would be dead,

[fathom tartan]

Well

[young knoll]

seems like it is useless, then

[cosmic crest]

🤔

[young knoll]

and pretty much no different from a computer

a computer "does what it wants"

until we change it

[peak escarp]

same could be said about people

[young knoll]

exaclty

I don't see much of a distinction if it can be removed

[fathom tartan]

Okay I love a philosophical discussion about free will as much as the next guy but we aren't going to get anywhere

[young knoll]

true

I think this went off course

[peak escarp]

the Overwatch Lore channel isn't really the place to discus the existance/nonexistance of free will

but it is a good discussion

[fathom tartan]

Yes

[cosmic crest]

I mean, it is somewhat relevant

[fathom tartan]

Kidna

[young knoll]

I think it is, but not sure it is resolvable

[fathom tartan]

But we aren't going to get anywhere

It's philosophy

[young knoll]

I mean, most of you seem to disagree, so that is cool

with me*

[fathom tartan]

We aren't gonna get anywhere

Philosophy has been as debated as long as the ancient civilizations

[peak escarp]

discussions are boring if everyone agrees

[young knoll]

I agree with that

[peak escarp]

as long as they stay civil, disagreeing is important to discussion

[young knoll]

just meant that I was maybe wrong about it having been resolved

it may have been essentially for the purpose of this channel, with me still disagreeing

is what I meant

anyway

that was at least interesting

[fathom tartan]

I'm trying to get at the point that we should perhaps change the subject

[young knoll]

I know, that is what I meant earlier as well

[fathom tartan]

Or we're going to go around in circles

[young knoll]

what would be a good thing to discuss now?

[frosty shell]

idk

[fathom tartan]

So

Where was zen made

[peak escarp]

we don't know

[fathom tartan]

Is there a part of an omnic to make them passive or aggressive

Could the iris effect that

[cosmic crest]

Why does Roadhog put up with Junkrats crap?

[fathom tartan]

Because he's paid to

[peak escarp]

money

and Roadhog thinks he deserves this

[frosty shell]

we have no idea what the iris is just that it's a concept of the shambali religion

[fathom tartan]

I think the iris could be something that could make a omnic passive

And it could have gotten to our friendly war machine bastion

[young knoll]

not trying to be rude here, but that doesn't seem to have any evidence for it whatsoever

[fathom tartan]

Well it would explain zen knowing about bastion

The only other one is zen understands bird

[peak escarp]

Zen doesn't know about Bastion

[young knoll]

you talking about the in game interactions?

I think many are not canon

[fathom tartan]

Yeah

Even torb the person that made bastion's dosent understand why he isn't murdering everyone

[peak escarp]

you mention Zen understanding bird a lot

what does the bird have to do with it?

[fathom tartan]

The in game interaction

Zen says a little birdy told him torb took in bastion

[peak escarp]

"I hear that you have taken in an omnic, Torbjorn."

no little birdy here

[fathom tartan]

I swear to fuck he says something about a bird

[peak escarp]

(also "little birdy" is just a phrase, not a literal bird)

[fathom tartan]

What kind of Mandela effect

Yes little birdy is a phrase but it's smart humor

[peak escarp]

like Reaper saying he's in Oasis to visit "a friend"

[fathom tartan]

Hold on

I swear to your god or gods I remember him saying little birdy

[peak escarp]

nope

no little birdy

[fathom tartan]

My brain has stoped working

Bastion's bird is cool

I just wanna see cool stuff her/him

Bastion's short is underrated

I love the dirt graphics

Ik this is gonna be no

[limpid agate]

Even torb the person that made bastion's dosent understand why he isn't murdering everyone
Torb made the physical designs

Not the mind

He has nothing to do with their AI development

He just designed the machines themselves

[fathom tartan]

But he states that they were designed to kill no matter what under any circumstances

[limpid agate]

Yes and

[fathom tartan]

Your not in improve you can say no

[limpid agate]

I could tell you that the T-800 was designed to not feel pity, or remorse, or fear, and that it was designed to not stop, ever, until Sarah Connor is dead.

But I didn't design the T-800 myself

Neither did Kyle Reese

Who told that to Sarah Connor

The only thing he made was John Connor

[fathom tartan]

But if you were to help for the design of the t-800

[limpid agate]

He didn't design the Omnics

[fathom tartan]

Torb made the physical designs
@limpid agate

[limpid agate]

He designed the SST Labrotories Siege Automoton E54

Or the OR14 Idina

Or the titans

The physical models

Which the Omniums then took

And adapted into killing machines

And supplied with their own artificial intelligences

The Titans werent even originally robots

They were originally mechs

The Omniums took the design and turned them into omnics

Torbjorn designs machines

He does nothing with AI

And the Ironclad Guild had nothing to do with the Omnic AI

No one he worked with did.

[fathom tartan]

Yes but you typically know the engine of the frame your making

Or at least some info

[limpid agate]

Okay

So lets rephrase this

A Honda frame designer would design their car expecting a Honda engine to go in it

[peak escarp]

imagine what Dr. Liao would think if she saw Bastion

[limpid agate]

The Omniums took Honda frames, and put Jet Engines in them

Or more realistically, Mustang engines

[fathom tartan]

Oooo

Do you think Winston or echo or something could make something to help bastion with English

[limpid agate]

No.

Efi, if anyone.

[fathom tartan]

:l

[limpid agate]

And even then

She didnt make Orisa's voice module

She just bought one

[fathom tartan]

But with echo potentially knowing omnic and english

[limpid agate]

Omnic isnt a language

And Echo isn't an omnic

[fathom tartan]

And Winston being a amazing inventor

Echo could probably read and understand it

[limpid agate]

Its not something to read or understand

[fathom tartan]

:l

[limpid agate]

There is omnic script

But that's like saying calligraphy is a language

[fathom tartan]

Would you like to tell me what is on signs in numbani

And if you can't read it why It would be on signs

[limpid agate]

Its probably English.

[peak escarp]

omnics can read it

[limpid agate]

But not written in the arabic alphabet

[fathom tartan]

Yes and if a omnic can read and understand it

[limpid agate]

Okay

[fathom tartan]

Why wouldn't echo be able to understand

[limpid agate]

Let's try this again.

Can you understand this sentence.

?

[fathom tartan]

Is he typing

[limpid agate]

Can you understand this sentence.

This is the sentence

Can you understand it

[fathom tartan]

Yes

[limpid agate]

Okay cool

I have 2 more

[fathom tartan]

I dont speak multiple languages btw

[limpid agate]

この文を分かりますか。

[fathom tartan]

A person from that country could

[limpid agate]

Okay so you cannot understand Japanese language written in Japanese script

I have 1 more

[gentle heart]

You really don’t need to

[fathom tartan]

Or a highly adaptive ai able to understand almost anything could

[limpid agate]

ケン・ユー・アンダスタンド・ディス・センタンス。

[fathom tartan]

Echo would be able to understand

[limpid agate]

That was English

It was written in Katakana

But it was English

Alphabet != Language

[peak escarp]

Echo probably would be able to read omnicode

what is your point?

[fathom tartan]

Yes

[limpid agate]

"Omnic" isn't a language

Omnics mostly speak English. Or whatever other native language is present.

The Paris reporter speaks French. So does Luna.

[fathom tartan]

So paired with Winston's big brian could they translate bastions beeps and boops into a language

[gentle heart]

So omnics have some language or alphabet that they can read and that we, people who don’t live in their world, can’t. I’m sure some humans in verse bothered to learn

[fathom tartan]

He seems to understand English enough

[limpid agate]

Orisa speaks English because Numbani speaks English.

[peak escarp]

Bastion's beeps and boops aren't a language

they're just sounds

[limpid agate]

Bastion is incapable of speech.

[fathom tartan]

Ugh

[limpid agate]

That's like saying if I cut out your tongue, your grunts were a language

You can still grunt to the melody of Jingle Bells

But you can't sing

Jingle Bells

[gentle heart]

Why was a bastion unit given the capability of vocalizing if not to communicate?

[limpid agate]

It wasn't.

[peak escarp]

it's not vocalizing

[fathom tartan]

Okay so y'know how hammond made a machine to speak

[peak escarp]

it's servos and robot stuff

[fathom tartan]

Why cant bastion have something like that

[limpid agate]

Because Wrecking Ball

Is more like Alexa

I dont understand your point anyways

What is all this trying to build to

[fathom tartan]

Bastion understands English but is incapable of speaking it such as a hamster if bastion would be to join ow and have a big Brain like Winston to help make a machine so he can y'know be understood how would that be incapable

[lament prawn]

they're discussing the possibility of bastion having a voice one way or another

[limpid agate]

Aside from discussing whether or not its possible

[peak escarp]

what would the benefit of Bastion speaking English be?

[limpid agate]

Its not anything that will ever be done.

[lament prawn]

which, regardless of logic, probably wont happen because it would be disorienting to what we're used to, and not giving him a voice was a creative choice

[fathom tartan]

The benefit would be to be understood

Beep boop beep can have emotions behind it but good luck saying watch out in beeps

[limpid agate]

So.

[lament prawn]

ignoring realism, the writers will probably never have bastion be misunderstood in a critical situation outside of comedic purposes

[fathom tartan]

Torb has already added mods to bastion

And it's not like bastion dosent already have a voice actor

Just saying it could be a possibility

[peak escarp]

an unlikely one

[fathom tartan]

I'm sure him saying he's a friendly bastion could aid him in not being murdered

[limpid agate]

Bastion does have a voice actor

Its Chris Metzen

[fathom tartan]

:l

I didn't say he didn't

[limpid agate]

Double negatives aren't the clearest in English.

There is no reason for Bastion to ever have English speech.

[fathom tartan]

There is reason but ow may not do it because fuck logic

[limpid agate]

Like, look at the Simpsons. There are entire episodes where Maggie is an adult in the future, and she still never speaks. They made her speak once in a Halloween episode for comedic effect.

But it was a Halloween episode as well.

They do weird shit all the time in those.

[fathom tartan]

Taiga

You sure do like referring to other genres

Your really big on your story to story connections

[limpid agate]

Analogy is useful.

[fathom tartan]

But it could be a life to story connection

It's more likely people would understand

And Maggie speaks alot more than 1 hollween episode she speaks for comedic effects alot

[limpid agate]

Okay.

The point was

There is no reason to make Bastion speak

Can they do it

Maybe, who cares

It will never be relevant

[fathom tartan]

But ow having bastion keep to his beeps and boops is a great creative choice I'm just saying that bastion being give a way to speak in need of speaking would be logical and smart

[limpid agate]

Its like R2D2

People will just be able to understand what he is saying inexplicably

[lament prawn]

logically and realistically, yes, bastion having a voice would be helpful - but from a creative perspective, he probably wont. him lacking a voice is part of his character and appeal, his beep boops are iconic. its not logical for combatants to wear bright colorful clothes and have tech that looks like angel wings, but its creative and stylized and works with the universe

[fathom tartan]

Yes I understand bastion not speaking is a creative choice

A okay creative choice

But within the logic of the in game universe there isn't much reason for him to not talk

[limpid agate]

You can say the same thing about R2D2

[fathom tartan]

Okay

[lament prawn]

there's no reason for mercy's tech to look like angel wings, the only reason she has that is because she looks visually appealing in it and it fits her character

and how the most energetic and bubbly character conveniently has time-skipping powers that visually represent her personality

[fathom tartan]

Let's say you saw hitler on the streets you should probably be like "oh shit that's Hitler I should do something about this" now replace Hitler with a bastion walking on the streets if bastion could say "woah I'm not a super murder I'm friendly" would probably be more effective than "beep boop"

[peak escarp]

would you believe a murderbot that said "hey I'm not a murderbot"

[lament prawn]

again, you're bringing realism into this when thats not what OW is trying to achieve, the writers will never put bastion in that situation

[fathom tartan]

For the sake of bastion not having his skull bashed in by a scared person it would help if he could talk

[peak escarp]

your scenario is very farfetched

[fathom tartan]

How

He is literally a murder bot

[lament prawn]

it would help if tracer had a bulletproof helmet, but she doesnt, because it just doesnt look nice nor does it fit her

[peak escarp]

what civilian is going to bash in a robot's skull?

[fathom tartan]

If you saw a active chainsaw you would probably turn it off

Wouldn't you

[peak escarp]

so Bastion is a chainsaw?

[fathom tartan]

In the sense of a dangerous machine yes

[peak escarp]

not a very good analogy

Bastion can't be turned off

[fathom tartan]

He can be killed

[peak escarp]

not by a civilian

[fathom tartan]

By a group of people yes

[peak escarp]

Bastion would flee

[fathom tartan]

They would follow

Its a bastion

[peak escarp]

yes

it's a Bastion

and even if the Bastion said "stop, I mean you no harm", it's still a Bastion

and people would want it destoryed

[fathom tartan]

Okay

[peak escarp]

that's why Torbjorn has to speak for it

[lament prawn]

whether or not his words are believable doesnt matter when it comes to whether or not he'll have a voice

[peak escarp]

not just because people don't understand it

[fathom tartan]

Torbjorn can't always be there

[peak escarp]

but because people don't trust it

Bastion being able to speak would accomplish nothing

[fathom tartan]

It's unlikely to happen because creative choices

[hoary condor]

Can I ask a question but it’ll break the current topic?

[fathom tartan]

But it would make some sense if he could

@hoary condor please

[lament prawn]

if your point is that a voice would realistically help, then sure, point made, but its unlikely to actually happen because realism is not the goal

[fathom tartan]

Yes

[hoary condor]

Do you guys think that Maximillion(that bad omnic that worked for Talon) will have some significance in OW2?

[peak escarp]

yes

[fathom tartan]

Yes

[ember pine]

I hope so

[lament prawn]

he's shown in the OW2 gameplay trailer

in what seems like a cutscene, so he's relevant to at least one mission, maybe more

[fathom tartan]

Okay can we discuss emily

[hoary condor]

Oh ok

[fathom tartan]

What is going to happen to emily

[hoary condor]

Thx for your opinions:D

[peak escarp]

why would something happen to Emily?

[fathom tartan]

Because ow being rebooted and tracer being apart of the new ow emily is in danger so would they pit emily some where it no

*or

[peak escarp]

why is Emily in danger?

[hoary condor]

Tracer will most likely still visit Emily regularly

[fathom tartan]

Assassination, questioning,interrogation

[peak escarp]

. . .by who?!

[fathom tartan]

Um talon/police

The police of course not doing a assassination

[peak escarp]

why would the police care about Tracer's girlfriend?

[fathom tartan]

Because it's her girlfriend

[peak escarp]

and if Talon was going to go after Emily, they probably would have already

[fathom tartan]

Yes but tracer wasn't a threat

And tracer was with emily

[hoary condor]

Why would Talon really care about Emily??

[fathom tartan]

ITS HER GIRLFRIEND

[peak escarp]

I don't think they would go after Emily

[hoary condor]

I mean maybe if they really wanted to attack tracer Talon might like kidnap Emily or something

[fathom tartan]

I know connection with tracer

[peak escarp]

Tracer isn't important enough for them to target Emily

Gerard's wife was a target because Gerard was the head of Anti-Talon operations

he was the guy in charge of taking them down, and was proving difficult to kill

Tracer would just be targeted directly

[fathom tartan]

And tracer is now actively going after uprising

The rest of the new ow is kinda well lonely

Expect torb

But tracer is someone talon could take and hold hostage

And it's not like she lives in a discrete location she lives in London

At least taking her to a safer place like Gibraltar sounds smart

Thinking of it bastion will probably stay a Gibraltar for the most part to defend it

Any intruder would probably be hesitant to go into Gibraltar if they saw a bastion

[limpid agate]

Null Sector

Not Uprising

[pallid silo]

[limpid agate]

!!shitposting @pallid silo

[twilit nacelle]

@pallid silo Shitposting will result in a loss of access.

[pallid silo]

access to what?

:\

[fathom tartan]

Of your rights

[pallid silo]

what

[timid beacon]

you will lose your right to talk in this discord server

[fathom tartan]

Wait

Okay this may sounds silly and no need to question

But dose the u.s constitution and the humman rights cover Winston

[timid beacon]

is he a citizen of the us?

[fathom tartan]

I mean he's not a humman

He's a ape

I'm sure they count him as a person

But still just a thought

[timid beacon]

would you count a talking ape who is smarter than everyone on the earth a human, because i wouldn't. better?

[fathom tartan]

Um can you correct that it's a little confusing to read

Yes

I mean he isn't smarter than everyone

But he's still a person

[timid beacon]

ok, but he an ape who talks

[fathom tartan]

And I'm sure they give him humman rights

If you think about it in a way we are apes that talk

Hold on

I just thought

Is hog's belly button a tumor

[ember pine]

I think he just has a really agresive outie

[fathom tartan]

They said he was affected by radiation

[timid beacon]

where are you getting these thoughts?

[ember pine]

that could make sense but I don't think that's the intention

[fathom tartan]

It would be a dark twist

Now everytime I see it I'm gonna get a bad feeling

:(

[ember pine]

oh and I agree Emily is potentially in danger now. I was actually surprised when she was first revealed her and that they were living in London cause tracer is still somewhat of a well known person and at the very least is a potential target for Reaper

[limpid agate]

The US Constitution does not cover Winston

Why would it

[ember pine]

true I don't think he's ever lived in the states

[fathom tartan]

The point is that he's a ape not a us citizen

[limpid agate]

No one is debating if he is a US citizen or not

He isn't

[fathom tartan]

If he were to try and obtain u.s citizenship could he

[limpid agate]

He is a:

• Gorilla from the Moon
• Raised on an international moon base
• Run by a Chinese company
• That lives in Gibraltar
• A British territory
• Off the coast of Spain
• And pays taxes to Switzerland

No

He has nothing to do with the entire North American continent

[peak escarp]

if he pays taxes, he must be considered a person

[limpid agate]

But he is not American

[fathom tartan]

Okay

[warm seal]

I mean... say the government never officially decided Winston can have rights because he's not human. Who is going to tell him he can't lol

[fathom tartan]

Btw

Where tf is Winston getting money from

[timid beacon]

yes

[fathom tartan]

Paying taxes for Gibraltar dosent seem cheap

[warm seal]

He's still a scientist, maybe from grants or from money he's made off of his work

[peak escarp]

Overwatch probably paid him

[fathom tartan]

Unless ow paid super well

[timid beacon]

HE"S A MONKEY, HOW DOES HE MAKE MONEY?

[warm seal]

Not a monkey

a scientist smh

[fathom tartan]

Yeah

[warm seal]

I'm sure Winston had some money from OW

[timid beacon]

what do you say when he dives you?

cause i say kill the monkey

[fathom tartan]

I say ape

[warm seal]

I doubt Moira would join Overwatch if it didn't provide her with funding and resources for her own personal work

[timid beacon]

any who we got off topic

back to talking about lore

[warm seal]

So Winston probably got the same benefit, and maybe still does.

[fathom tartan]

But enough to pay for the whole Gibraltar base's taxes tho?

[warm seal]

Like I said, he still has an actual job as an independent inventor

but it could be that part of the money he has is from previous work in OW

[timid beacon]

he failed making a deploy-able shield

[warm seal]

I mean... he clearly figured it out eventually

Plus, he made the device Tracer has, right?

[fathom tartan]

I dont think many people are having cronodisassociation

[warm seal]

What I want to understand is, what are the things D.Va is fighting in her short

That doesn't make the device any less groundbreaking and potentially adjustable in its use

[fathom tartan]

Those are the qwisthin

I dunno how to spell it

[warm seal]

are they like... sea monster omnics that occasionally come out to cause a fuss and then get a little smarter

bc they came out of the water, right?

[fathom tartan]

Um they come out every couple of years and the mekas are pos to stop them

They do come from the sea

And I think they adapt but I'm unsure

[warm seal]

What's stopping them from permanently destroying them?

[fathom tartan]

I think there is like a omniom or something down there making them

[warm seal]

Huh

So they can't destroy that instead?

[fathom tartan]

I don't know how to spell things I need help

@peak escarp

[peak escarp]

spell what

[fathom tartan]

He needs help with the Koran omnics

[peak escarp]

gwishin

[fathom tartan]

Yes those

[peak escarp]

made by an omnium in the East China Sea

[fathom tartan]

Yes

[timid beacon]

under water right

[peak escarp]

yes

so some of the omnics have a squid-like appearance

[fathom tartan]

You should came in and said the Calvary is here

[timid beacon]

and that's the reason d.va can't go straight for the base of operations

[fathom tartan]

Yes

Kinda cool they made a underwater and water proof omniom

Honestly @ing doctor felt like I called superman or something

[timid beacon]

nice

[fathom tartan]

The speed at which he came was amazing

I'm still trying to think of what Winston could have invented to make that much money

Omg I just thought about a idea and now I have cool skin idea

So of course tracer can probably get a job

[peak escarp]

he probably just got paid by Overwatch

[timid beacon]

the Chronal accelerator, maybe

[peak escarp]

for being part of Overwatch

[fathom tartan]

So she could have taken a small job because ow probably paid her

What if she delivered food like uber eats or pizza

[timid beacon]

she got paid to fly the prototype jet and almost died

[fathom tartan]

"Cheers, love your food is here"

[timid beacon]

if winston didn't save her

[fathom tartan]

Yeah

Well

I dunno

[timid beacon]

didn't the government pay her to fly it?

[fathom tartan]

I'm sure she got some compensation but she most likely signed something and I think she volunteered

Hmmmmmmmm

A new series of questions has now entered my head

Okay so health care is free in England right?

[young knoll]

no

comes from taxeas

taxes*

[fathom tartan]

Well it's "free healthcare"

Like in every developed country except america

Okay I googled anyway

So

Is tracer's electrical bill high because of the chronal accelerator or is the electricity going to that free because she needs it to live

[young knoll]

it isn't free

taxes

[fathom tartan]

Hold on

I'm reading about it on Google

So is there taxes higher if they go to the doctor more

Or is it like saying it's free but then giving them a charge via taxes

I need to find a British person

[young knoll]

that I do not know

but it is paid through taxes somehow

[fathom tartan]

Okay I found a brit

And yeah it's free healthcare

They just pay there taxes and they get free healthcare

[young knoll]

that isn't free

[fathom tartan]

Or they did when they where in the eu

Grike "free healthcare" is that

[young knoll]

if you pay for it, it isn't free

that is literally a part of the definition

[fathom tartan]

I dunno how to explain this

[peak escarp]

free means you don't pay out of pocket like Americans do

[young knoll]

also, what does that have to do with lore?

[fathom tartan]

Is tracer's electrical bill reduced because she has to power her accelerator or she dies

[young knoll]

I guess it depends on whether or not that is considered a part of healthcare or not

I imagine overwatch paid for it otherwise

[fathom tartan]

I mean I'm thinking of it like a oxygen tank

[young knoll]

not like they are gonna let her die

[timid beacon]

how did all this start?

[fathom tartan]

Right under the long hm

But I think her bill would be somewhat reduced because she depends on it

[timid beacon]

i like how it when from talking about winston to will tracer die if she can't power her chronal accelerator. PogChamp

[fathom tartan]

Well I mean ig she wont die

She becomes a time aberration tho

Aka time ghost and being a ghost sounds like dieing

[timid beacon]

she will keep appearing and reappearing if different places at different times

[fathom tartan]

Okay I don't wanan think too far into because bc time wibbly wobbly shenanigans but she probably saw the future right

[young knoll]

I doubt it

[fathom tartan]

I mean not the future because time isnt fixed

But like

She probably went forward

And how far back cou6she of gone

*could

[peak escarp]

she doesn't actually time travel

[fathom tartan]

And the jet too what if a jet just showed up in 800 bce

[peak escarp]

she just fast forwards/rewinds herself

[fathom tartan]

Yes but she herself was phasing in and out of time

Different places different years

Was it a set time frame because the plane had fail safes

Omfg my brian just cant keep thinking about this I have already made up a theory that's would be just dumb

[peak escarp]

she was in and out of time for only a few months

not years

[fathom tartan]

Okay

Thanks I'm sure that's not confirmed but I'm gonna act like you Michael chu

*your

Because fuck time I love the concept but by brain will stop working correctly if I don't stop

[peak escarp]

it's what is said in her bio and her origin trailer

[timid beacon]

damn

[fathom tartan]

Where

[peak escarp]

She reappeared months later, but her ordeal had greatly changed her: her molecules had been desynchronized from the flow of time. ```

https://youtu.be/27LPGldyY7M

[fathom tartan]

Okay

Anyone interested in the super dumb theory I had while thinking about time wibbly wobbly

[timid beacon]

sure shoot

[fathom tartan]

So

I thought about the jet and was like "omfg a jet could do so much damage especially an explosion of a jet"

Then my brain jumped into random explosions and thought what if the swiss base exploding was the jet crashing into the swiss base

[young knoll]

no

that was the fight between soldier and reaper

[fathom tartan]

I know

My brain was just hoping

Because time is wibbly

And wobbly

Honestly I would like to see a doctor who reference from tracer

[young knoll]

I am sure they have

[fathom tartan]

Yeah

Wait

WAIT

[timid beacon]

oh no

[fathom tartan]

is her rose skin a reference that blew strait over my head

[peak escarp]

no

[young knoll]

ummm

no

[fathom tartan]

How

[peak escarp]

it's called Rose because of the design of roses on the skin

[fathom tartan]

Legit the doctor's first companion in the new version of doctor who is named rose

[peak escarp]

I know

it's also a type of flower

[fathom tartan]

Yes

But why would they go for rose

Dose it even have significance in chinese new years

I mean if it is I feel so outstandingly dumb for not seeing it's a reference

[peak escarp]

I really don't think it is

Rose Tyler isn't really associated with roses

[timid beacon]

nice

[fathom tartan]

Google is being very dumb about me trying to find references in overwatch to doctor who

[young knoll]

just look at her voicelines or sprays

[peak escarp]

I haven't noticed any

[fathom tartan]

Hearing tracer say wibbly wobbly after blinking or recalling would be enough for me

I saw something about bastion sounding like a dalek

The phone box at the first point always seemed to be sorta a reference

Because I mean it's a phone box without a phone in it

And it's way in the future

Um

[timid beacon]

what now

[fathom tartan]

Is zen post to replace the person that was assassinated in London

[timid beacon]

?

wym

[fathom tartan]

The person in London the omnic sense he died did zen take his place kinda

[peak escarp]

no

Zenyatta left the Shambali

[fathom tartan]

Oh

What

Well he's still a believer of the iris

[peak escarp]

Ultimately, Zenyatta followed his own path. He chose to leave the monastery and wander the world, helping those he meets to overcome their personal struggles and find inner peace. But, when necessary, he will fight to protect the innocent, be they omnic or human.

he still follows the beliefs of the Shambali

[fathom tartan]

Okay

[peak escarp]

he just doesn't think they should hide up in the monastery

[fathom tartan]

Well the assassins person was spreding it london

*assassinated

[timid beacon]

and when you play nepal he references his brothers and sisters might remembers him

[fathom tartan]

Ight

Do you think we will get an animation or ow2 misson for kings row about the emp

[timid beacon]

maybe

i hope

[fathom tartan]

Seems important

Huh

I wonder what the anti-omnic extremists groups are called besides the junkers

[valid terrace]

Wow this chat blew up that took awhile

[fathom tartan]

Did you read

All of it

[valid terrace]

Yeah

I like to keep up with the conversations

[fathom tartan]

You mainly read me being dumb

[valid terrace]

Eh I’ve seen worse around here

[fathom tartan]

Did you read the part where I called dr.6 as if he was some kinda of lore superhero

[pliant tree]

Same I’m new

Hi

[valid terrace]

Yeah they’re pretty cool about that

[peak escarp]

I'm just one of the regulars

[pliant tree]

I love overwatch lore but there’s not much of it

It terms of “ults”

[peak escarp]

and since I'm off work, I don't have much else to do

[pliant tree]

Is the genji blade and hanzo ult visible

To other people?

[valid terrace]

Most of the ults are canon i think

[limpid agate]

Yes

[pliant tree]

Inside the overwatch world

Yeah but

[limpid agate]

People can see the dragons

[pliant tree]

How would it work

[fathom tartan]

I swear are you just waiting for someone to say your name I didn't even @ that time

[valid terrace]

They’re seen in dragons