they work together in Talon
#lore-discussion
peak escarp
neat wadi
I wouldn't be surprised.
peak escarp
she's a scientist, he's a scientist
neat wadi
So is Winston...
neat wadi
I know that.
peak escarp
we were talking about Sigma and Moira working together
bringing up the fact that Winston is also a scientist is irrelevant to the conversation
grand wedge
The conversation is that Moira, while working for Talon - is part of Oasis and is the Minister of Genetics
Oasis also have a minister of Physics
Chu said that "they put him in a lab somewhere"
grand wedge
If it was a talon-run lab, he would probably be sucpicious? But a full city dedicated to science and discovery? Not so much
And who said Talon isn't working within Oasis?
They already have Moira here.
peak escarp
there's no evidence that Oasis is working with Talon
grand wedge
yes
valid terrace
Oasis could be along the same path as Vishkar in that sense
foggy notch
Well no map specific quote for sigma in oasis so I don't think sigma is related to that city
worthy rose
sigma could have his own map later on
grand wedge
because it's link to his past
foggy notch
Well in lunar Colony he has many things
grand wedge
I doubt they would reveal plot for OW2 story if it would spoil us
foggy notch
But I gotta say that prophet skin kinda looks like the moira's minister skin though I know skins arent canon
foggy notch
Maybe they have their weird uniforms in oasis?
valid terrace
Faction skins are not usually canon unless they have a lore blurb on the side
grand wedge
Sigma unfinished interactions : https://youtu.be/-SSldKeLWOY
worthy rose
why are they unfinished?
grand wedge
because the answers are not in the game file
worthy rose
ok
grand wedge
And we can't hear them in game
Dr O'Deorain, the main components have gone missing. Do you know where they might be? "
I like this one, that's the one that suggests they work together (and that maybe Moira or someone else is giving his work to Talon)
worthy rose
everyone: ?
at first i thought they were being rude to sigma
lol
just ignoring him
frosty shell
I think Dr O'Deorain, the main components have gone missing. Do you know where they might be? is the answer to something
uncut night
so?
echo gate
does anyone else find sym’s lore interesting
i think she’s similar to moira in the way that both are willing to do whatever is necessary to better the world, at least with their definition of better
cosmic crest
Moira is definitely more malevolent though.
worthy rose
^
atomic cosmos
possibility hanzo become cyborg on OW2 if he joined genji's
is high
probably for.. leveling up from '' shimada bros '' to '' shimada robros ''
pliant sparrow
I highly doubt it
iron plume
Why would he become a cyborg? Genji didn't do it to "upgrade" or of his free will
worthy rose
^
atomic cosmos
because im imagine hanzo would said these line
worthy rose
so
atomic cosmos
'' i lost you once and i never want to lose you again ''
so hanzo sacrifise himself
but ended up saved by mercy
worthy rose
hanzo killed genji and then mercy found him and revived them
viral raptor
and overwatch was like
worthy rose
hIM*
viral raptor
yooooooooooooooo im gonna make u a robot
atomic cosmos
they way how overwatch able to secure dying genji is..just mysterious ?
i think it happen when overwatch spying on shimada clan ?
atomic cosmos
big yakuza right ?
viral raptor
its cos mercy was in his bedroom and was like what the hell and went out to see
nah jk
worthy rose
i mean mercy likes to save ppl
and seing him half dead basically
he revived him and mb he told her what happened
atomic cosmos
well it's time to put my experiment on this guy
wait why did they assign genji to blackwatch instead overwatch ?
worthy rose
blackwatch is a overwatch subunit
atomic cosmos
yeah for dangerous people right ?
worthy rose
he was in overwatch but then they moved him to blackwatch for the whole rialto thing
viral raptor
cos hes a ninja, he can sneak around and stuff
atomic cosmos
like mccree joined blackwatch because they threatened him jail or join blackwatch
worthy rose
i think blackwatch was made to do things undercover
yeah they forced him to leave the deadlock gang
so blackwatch isnt really evil
atomic cosmos
blackwatch just work under the radar until they fucked it up
viral raptor
then they run
viral raptor
i dont see how bullets do anything to the ominix
atomic cosmos
maybe moira is just interested to do experiment on genji
viral raptor
they are legit made of metal
atomic cosmos
cuz some reason
viral raptor
woah
worthy rose
yeah but it will break any cables they have
atomic cosmos
i mean genji's robotic thing was created by mercy right ? her rival
atomic cosmos
moira
viral raptor
cya
atomic cosmos
cya
atomic cosmos
wait they are not rival ?
worthy rose
i mean they dont explain something
atomic cosmos
the spray where it show moira first time injecting those blackstuff to her other arm
worthy rose
yeah but those were already explained in the origin story thing
atomic cosmos
oh
worthy rose
so i dont think they have something to do with the sprays
atomic cosmos
i didn't watched recent origin story last one i watched was orisa's
worthy rose
you should watch them
worthy rose
its okay
dim scroll
I'm looking forward to seeing the new Baptiste, Brigitte, D.Va, and Pharah skins where they are actually in Overwatch.
iron plume
D.va likely won't be joining any time soon
Pharah and Baptiste are questionable even though it's in "makes sense" territory
Brigitte is the only confirmed one
dim scroll
Baptiste set out to join Overwatch at the end of his short story (With a bit of help from Sombra)
Pharah isn't that big of a leap for me, she had previously wanted to join before OW got shut down. I think once OW gets officially reinstated, she will join.
D.Va is probably the biggest stretch
iron plume
Bap didn't set out to join OW, he set out to meet Mercy
but yes
your reasoning is why they're in the "makes sense" camp
but they're not confirmed
and if they do join it will likely be later down the line
plus none of the redesigns we do have are too "overwatch-y"
it's not like the uprising uniforms
dim scroll
I hope that they eventually get matching uniforms.
Especially with the white and gold/orange scheme
I think that, from a game play standpoint, they will have to start banding more heroes together quickly after Rio. It doesn't make sense to have 16 characters playable for an entire multiplayer campaign. I think that we'll have some of the unannounced OW2 heroes join the team, and some of the heroes from game as it stands will join.
lament prawn
having forced uniforms based on what organization the hero is in would limit their visual design
they design the looks to reflect character
there's a reason none of the talon heroes are wearing talon uniforms in their default looks, as much as that would make sense
dim scroll
I agree, each character should have their own look and feel. I would like to have the option to make them all match and have the same uniform.
lament prawn
the heroes can look different temporarily for story reasons of course, like mercy's look in valkyrie, but not the default look that the public will remember them in
dim scroll
Didn't she just put on her old OW uniform?
iron plume
no
her suit is not her uniform
reef gale
is talon and null sector allies???
iron plume
yes
frosty shell
metal things can get shot
Also, there's no reason to believe Mercy built Genji's cybernetics
reef gale
does anyone think that in OW2 independent characters will get some storyline too
frosty shell
maybe, but idk how they'll be playable in story missions
Roadhog and Junkrat, for instance, wouldn't have anyone obvious to team up with to make a full team
dim scroll
Wrecking Ball and Junker Queen, provided she is playable.
Hanzo could also have a team up mission with Genji, Mercy and someone else.
dry vector
What is Echos backstory
dim scroll
She was a prototype Omnic created by Dr. Liao in order to be in a multi-role combative position on a team. She was supposed to have limited intelligence due to wanting to avoid creating another Omnic crisis. Liao secretly upgraded her to be sentient, and when the Echo project was shut down after Liao's death, Echo was put into storage until she was recovered by McCree, where she traveled to Paris to help Winston during Zero Hour.
cosmic crest
Who was responsible for the attack that killed Liao?
grand wedge
We don’t know
dim scroll
It would depend on when she died and where she was working.
We know that Doomfist was capture in Singapore, where Liao was from, so it's possible that he led the attack that got her killed, or it could be something else.
cosmic crest
it would be nice if the events were tied like that
thorn ibex
Ive noticed that Reaper has very pale elbows even though he's Hispanic
thorn ibex
Because of Moira's experiments on him?
peak escarp
probably
pliant sparrow
The gas powers are his cells decaying
peak escarp
his SEP conditioning gave him the ability to regenerate
Jack can do the same
Moira experiments appear to be what allows him to decay his cells into a smoke-like form
nothing is confirmed, but my theory is that the severe injuries he sustained in the Swiss HQ explosion caused his regeneration to into overdrive, which somehow also triggered his decay and he's stuck in a constant loop of decay and regeneration
thorn ibex
Thats actually a convincing theory
lavish elm
Good theory
peak escarp
since that's basically what it says in his bio
It is possible that he is a byproduct of failed genetic alteration which forces his cells to simultaneously decay and regenerate at a hyper-accelerated rate.
thorn ibex
Well, you said it with more clarification
thorn ibex
My original theory was that he was brainwashed and the skin was a by-product
Or to keep ex-Overwatch from recognizing him
foggy notch
Any pics of the reaper's face? And I mean the "after the explosion one" without the mask
peak escarp
Ana recognized him as soon as she saw his face
no, we haven't seen it
why would brainwashing make your skin turn white?
foggy notch
I bet its terrifying sustaining lots of wounds
thorn ibex
Not very thought out, I know...
foggy notch
And scars
thorn ibex
But why suddenly turn on Overwatch?
foggy notch
Maybe envious?
thorn ibex
After re-reading and playing Retribution, Reyes seems so determined to get Talon
Now it's the polar opposite
peak escarp
in Old Soldiers, Reaper says "He did this to me, Ana. They left me to become this thing." and "They left you to die. They left me to suffer."
They in this case is probably Overwatch - they probably gave up searching for him after the explosion
He is likely Jack based on the context - Reyes might have gone to Moira because of something Jack did
foggy notch
Well moira was experimenting on him even in blacwatch
Also ow Swiss hq seems more like an attack from Reyes or someone
Not just an internal struggle between the two that lead to thr explosion
So leaving him as a "non overwatch agent" seems reasonable
thorn ibex
Wait, did Reyes lead the attack on Swiss HQ?
foggy notch
But as ive always said Im not here to brag about theories cause its their game and they'll decide the outcome of the story just have to wait
@thorn ibex im just saying "maybe" not that he did it
peak escarp
we don't know what happened
the public believes that it was a fight between Morrison and Reyes
foggy notch
Exactly
peak escarp
Morrison thinks Talon did it
foggy notch
Ow wasnt a story based game
It was just a battle royal for people to have fun
But they decided to expand it to ow2 for the lore stuff
foggy notch
Well it fits the category
peak escarp
and they did have story from the beginning, they just didn't expect people to latch onto it like they did
foggy notch
Anyways whatever it is, its not a story based game with campagins and stuff
U shouldnt be expecting much lore from it
thorn ibex
I mean, too much theorizing can be bad...
foggy notch
Well story and the timelines were bullshit, imagine theres a game which always talks about the past and no one knows whats happening in the present
Its like a historical game lol
thorn ibex
But the whole Reaper thing's interesting
foggy notch
U have no idea how much people theorize every little details in the game
peak escarp
pretty much all the lore we've gotten so far has been setting up what's going on in the present
thorn ibex
They shouldnt abandon it completely imo
peak escarp
only the Archives missions and a few other things are historical
foggy notch
Present but talking about the past
thorn ibex
Exposition is important
peak escarp
all of the animated shorts except The Last Bastion are present day
foggy notch
Rein's hanzo's
thorn ibex
How much of and how it's introducted is what matters
peak escarp
all of the comics except Uprising, Retribution, Legacy and Junkenstein are present day
peak escarp
Rein's short is told through flashbacks - the part with Brigitte is present day
Hanzo's short is post-Recall
thorn ibex
Wait what were we talking about again?
peak escarp
we were discussing what parts of the lore are "historical" and which are present day
thorn ibex
Technically the whole thing's historical and OW2 is the present
thorn ibex
But, like I said, how it's presented is what matters
peak escarp
whereas "present day" is anything around the time of Recall
Not here to start another discussion with u bud
. . . but this is a discussion channel . . .
thorn ibex
I completely lost my trail of thought
cosmic crest
I imagine Reyes was responsible for the attack on Zurich
He and Morrison had an epic battle, with Morrison being the ultimate victor
Reyes had something happen to him that turned him into what he is now, like he was electrocuted or something that didn't mix well with his genetic enhancements.
cosmic crest
Maybe an archives mission
peak escarp
probably not
archives missions have teams of 4 - as far as we know, it was just Morrison vs. Reyes
cosmic crest
It would cool to see a civil war type scenario
peak escarp
I'd rather see that get covered in a short or a novel
dim scroll
I think the best option is a short.
That was the final straw in OW getting shut down. It would be nice to see,
Also, I'd love to see OW come together for the first time.
If you thought that Zero Hour was good, wait until you see the OGs
peak escarp
you mean, during the Crisis?
dim scroll
Yea
peak escarp
yeah, that would be cool to see
cosmic crest
That would be amazing
peak escarp
I'd like a novel for that, so we can get all the details
cosmic crest
Maybe if we get a map set in one of the Omniums
dim scroll
I don't see why we can't have both.
If we have the short focus on the battle, and the book on the events that lead and follow it.
Reyes leading the OG strike team would be cool to see.
limpid agate
Maybe if we get a map set in one of the Omniums
cosmic crest
Oh yeah
dim scroll
Roasted
dim scroll
The Detroit one would be cool
peak escarp
you mean a functional omnium?
peak escarp
we don't know the exact number
peak escarp
it's an omnium that was destroyed
limpid agate
We know of:
- Outback - Destroyed
- Siberia - Functional, crisis
- Nigerian - Functional, civil
- Detroit - Unknown, presumed defunct
- East China Sea - Function, Gwisin
I would imagine Null Sector also controls an Omnium somewhere
Perhaps we will get that as a map in OW2
cosmic crest
There surely one in or near Germany
worthy rose
talon and null sector are teamed up right
limpid agate
For now, yes
worthy rose
so would it be logical to assume null sector might be fuckin around in nigeria somewhere
with doom
even if they dont control the omnium
limpid agate
The Nigerian omnium is related to Numbani
worthy rose
i see
dim scroll
It would make sense if each continent had one (except Antarctica)
So, somewhere in Brazil?
dim scroll
I was thinking that the Europe one would be in Spain due to the HLC telescope map.
worthy rose
i feel like vishkar would have something to do with a brazillian omnium
cosmic crest
About Tracer's backstory
I think Winston created the slipstream
Hear me out on this
This would mean he felt personally responsible for Tracer's condition
Tracer, of course, wouldn't think less of him for this
cosmic crest
It creates a nice dynamic between the two
worthy rose
ik im saying i feel like theyd be involved with it somehow
reef gale
is it fair to say reaper(Reyes) is in Talon
peak escarp
Reaper is a Talon leader
reef gale
Is moira the reason y he is in Talon now
peak escarp
they're not in Talon
Blackwatch was Overwatch's black ops division
when Overwatch disbanded, some of the Blackwatch agents went to Talon
desert yarrow
tepid kraken
But no1 from overwatch knew, that there was black watxh
tepid kraken
Jack?
limpid agate
Soldier 76
tepid kraken
like soldier 76
limpid agate
Jack Morrison
limpid agate
Blackwatch was just part of Overwatch
tepid kraken
Good to know
limpid agate
The 4 heroes we have that were in Blackwatch are:
- Reaper (leader)
- McCree
- Genji
- Moira
tepid kraken
ikik
limpid agate
Of those:
- Reaper and Moira became leaders of Talon
- McCree quit and did his own thing
- Genji is part of new Overwatch
peak escarp
in the comic Trainhopper some of the Talon grunts recognize McCree, so they might have been Blackwatch as well
limpid agate
We also don't know what happened to the Blackwatch Pilot, Fio
opaque tundra
Most likely doing their own thing
zenith prawn
Mercenary fighter pilots Ace Combat-style?
tame osprey
reaper is mccrees father
limpid agate
!!shitposting @tame osprey
twilit nacelleBOT
@tame osprey Shitposting will result in a loss of access.
tame osprey
what its true
hasty surge
And ray is winston's pilot right?
Or whoever was driving the ship to the maps
tame osprey
they lied to me
hasty surge
Doesn't matter just know it's not true
tame osprey
Ok
hasty surge
What do we know about ray?
limpid agate
He's an Overwatch pilot
zenith prawn
He flies the Orca. He can grow a mean beard. He fights - he's "in the trenches, every day". "Ray" is his first name. Everyone knows him.
peak escarp
he's a name Jeff made up on the spot and will probably never be mentioned again
zenith prawn
peak escarp
I know
peak escarp
that doesn't mean Jeff didn't make him up on the spot
ocean scaffold
how many years pass since "reunion" till "zero hour"?
peak escarp
<1 year
ocean scaffold
thanks
sand monolith
lfg to help level me up. switched from console. qp only
peak escarp
wrong channel
sand monolith
woopos
neat pivot
I haven't seen this mentioned much, but I really think purple omic looks like an omnic version of reaper
particularly the hood
I'm wondering if someone/some group made him on purpose as a 'copy' of reaper
cosmic crest
Doesn't seem likely
peak escarp
I highly doubt it
candid chasm
Genji eats Torb
zinc moth
wait hold on....Correct me if im wrong, But some times when a person is playing reaper on route 66 he sometimes says "That's where I picked up the orphan" or smt
zinc moth
wait what?
candid chasm
lol
zinc moth
I thought he adopted him.....ah I see the misunderstanding then
peak escarp
McCree had already made a name for himself as a member of the notorious Deadlock Gang, which trafficked in illicit weapons and military hardware throughout the American Southwest, when he and his associates were busted in an Overwatch sting operation. With his expert marksmanship and resourcefulness, he was given the choice between rotting in a maximum-security lockup and joining Blackwatch, Overwatch's covert ops division. He chose the latter.
limpid agate
He also calls him a "Damn Ingrate"
Not an orphan
McCree probably has a living parent
placid fulcrum
probably an abusive living parent, considering that he run away
peak escarp
we don't know that he ran away
placid fulcrum
and the whole theme of "found family" in Ashe's narration of the deadlock gang
if you have a happy family, you don't generally run off to look for another
peak escarp
we don't know much about McCree's background, aside from the fact that he was on a farm
Ashe was the one who made a new family
we don't know McCree's reason for joining the gang
limpid agate
You dont need an abusive family to join a gang.
placid fulcrum
a person from a healthy background doesn't typically do that, I'd be surprised if he had a happy life on the farm
peak escarp
he could be unhappy but still have loving parents
not all unhappiness comes from dysfunctional families
placid fulcrum
I'll be surprised if it's true, but ok
limpid agate
Genji and Hanzo had a loving father
placid fulcrum
hanzo nearly killed genji. that's abusive as hell
feeling bad for it doesn't erase that fact
limpid agate
Im not talking about that
That was after their loving father died.
And Hanzo was pressured by the gang
Not by his family
placid fulcrum
wasn't "the gang" his family?
placid fulcrum
ok
placid fulcrum
didn't their father give genji an insulting nickname in childhood?
placid fulcrum
the skin description implies it was an insult
limpid agate
!!wiki Genji
twilit nacelleBOT
For more information about the game, please refer to the wiki: https://overwatch.gamepedia.com/Genji
limpid agate
Nice, not on the wiki
Diminutive
Diminutives are often employed as nicknames and pet names, when speaking to small children, and when expressing extreme tenderness and intimacy to an adult
That's not an insult
He was literally a child
limpid agate
Its like calling your daughter princess.
placid fulcrum
ok
limpid agate
If you were to call your older sister princess in that context, that would be insulting
placid fulcrum
guess I had the wrong impression then
limpid agate
But not if it was your father
echo gate
where do y’all think hanzo fits into in the current state of ow
limpid agate
He will either not appear, or ally with Overwatch.
echo gate
what about symm
limpid agate
She could be anything.
She is currently with Vishkar, and her boss is one of the Talon leaders.
echo gate
isn’t her trust for vishkar waivering?
white panther
Idk
But I think she will play a role in the OW2 campaign
Especially with missions with lucio in them cause they are like bitter rivals
white panther
Hmmm
Yeah I guess you’re right
But if the fist mission of the OW2 campaign is in Brazil then we can assume they may be there a bit, which would mean the involvement of Symmetra
peak escarp
she wasn't in the Rio mission we saw at Blizzcon
Lucio already kicked Vishkar out of his neighbourhood
Lúcio wouldn't stand for it. He stole Vishkar sonic technology that had been used to suppress the people, and he converted it into a tool to rally them to action. In a popular uprising, they drove Vishkar out of their neighborhoods. Lúcio's leadership made him a star overnight and a symbol for positive social change. His music skyrocketed in popularity. Whereas he had once performed locally, he was now filling arenas across the world.
all that happened before he became famous
I do hope it gets mentioned in the Rio mission though
in the final version
pliant sparrow
Sonic technology being use to suppress the population
No wonder vishkar are shady
pliant sparrow
Becoming famous from an uprising isn't really becoming a world peace symbol
devout sable
damn, Echo's voice actor probably had more work than any other
voicing all the ability lines from all heroes
cosmic crest
Or any lore at all for that matter
He is effectively doing nothing right now
I thought it would be fun if Hammond was a bounty hunter hired by the junker queen to hunt down Junkrat and Roadhog.
Having their arch-nemesis be a hamster would be humorous
spiral yarrow
Wasnt there a voice line for that already ingame between those two?
worthy rose
i dont think so
cobalt falcon
wait was widowmaker originally part of overwatch?
zenith prawn
No. Her husband, Gérard, was a prominent Overwatch agent, however she was not.
Amélie was a ballet dancer in Paris. She was basically Patty Hearst-ed by Talon, with a little biological augmentation.
potent briar
She got mind boggled
hot kite
Who is the original doom fist?
frosty shell
!!wiki Adhabu_Ngumi
twilit nacelleBOT
For more information about the game, please refer to the wiki: https://overwatch.gamepedia.com/Adhabu_Ngumi
atomic cosmos
do you guys think it's possible reinhardt will die on OW2 ?
like...he is really old
and then mercy transform him into cyborg
limpid agate
No.
acoustic badge
Why not?
atomic cosmos
also i like how his new apperances
it's like the design is being changed by brigitte herself
and then she tie reinhardt's hair ?
peak escarp
the heroes' OW2 designs tell a story
Genji wears clothes now that he's okay with his body
Bastion wears Torbjorn's old hat, and Torbjorn has retired
atomic cosmos
wait they released OW2 bastion design ?
peak escarp
atomic cosmos
oh nice
atomic cosmos
thanks for the pic
peak escarp
I expect when we get the rest of the redesigns, they'll tell us a bit of what they've been up to in the time since the fall of Overwatch
or since Recall
atomic cosmos
like how lucio able to join the winston's overwatch team ?
or they meet him while they're saving rio de janeiro ?
and then recruit him
pliant sparrow
My man Reinhardt can really grow one hell of a beard
zinc moth
Is no one gonna talk about how cute bation looks with his cap on?
frozen wren
dense ruin
cosmic crest
I wonder what Pharah's redesign will look like. Raptora mk VII maybe?
worthy rose
^
zenith heart
atomic cosmos
wait on lore can echo really copy like everybody's abilities and speciality ?
iron plume
we don't know the extent of her canon powers
atomic cosmos
yeah it sound awesome if they meet talon and echo just copy doomfist and went fisting...like the blast from punching is just massive
grand wedge
She is an adaptative robot - to what extend, we still have to see it in canon material
dusk ledge
Good point
atomic cosmos
i don't think she able to copy someone's technique only their weapons
she may able to copy doomfist's gauntlet but she doesn't have much experience as doomfist when using DF gauntlet
i think that's one of solution to balance her lore
acoustic badge
looks like junkrat and torbjorn combined
dusk ledge
I got that skin for torb and I was like “why universe”
peak escarp
I didn't like it at first, but it grew on me
frosty shell
how does the hat stay on?
zenith prawn
Is Torb a hunchback?
outer siren
what is the next event?
frosty shell
@outer siren This channel is for lore discussion
lilac pecan
I guess as OW2 releases and things go on we are likely to get updated skins for the rest of the heroes?
Eg. The gameplay trailer had doomfist in his tuxedo skin, and his stock skin was the one he had in Singapore
I assume he’ll get a new fighting suit
lilac pecan
It’s been confirmed? Nice
atomic cosmos
they did said more to come on the website
grand wedge
The base models in OW 1 will be updated to fit the new graphics - but the new models of OW2 will be more fitting with the character development with the lore and practicality of their outfits and such
limpid agate
They're probably going to be skins, in terms of how you use them
dusk ledge
Ah ues
atomic cosmos
for player that have OW1 purchased
if you straight buy OW2 withou buying OW1 then it will show no default OW1 skin i think
prisma wren
get out of the lore channel
atomic cosmos
who me ?
limpid agate
That thread on the forum about "favourite theories" got me thinking
I hate 90% of the theories people are posting there because they are terrible
Evil Mercy or God Program or Widow "breaking" her brainwashing or double double agent Reyes
What are some actual, good theories?
grand wedge
I do like the double agent theory, mainly because of Masquarade comic and all the parralel with The Mask of the Read Death.
Even if "double agent" seems the wrong term for that
placid fulcrum
yup, I also like the doule agent reyes theory
mostly because it solves a whole lot of plot holes
I assume the "double double agent" would be if he were working for talon all along? that one I don't like
the only theory I don't like is the evil mercy theory. it made sense in the past, but doesn't make sense given the more recent lore
and it's a real pity that the god program idea was shot down. it was promising, there was a lot they could potentially do with it
though recently Jeff said that anubis will be important again in the narrative, so not all is lost
grand wedge
The God program thing - with Pharah saying it was from the Omnic Crisis - then Mchu saying God Programm isn't a class of AI but a term only ofr Anubis- and then with OW that shot down the project 10 years ago - then Jeff mentioning Anubis again sayin it's a god program....
I hope this God Programm/ Anubis will be clearer on day
atomic cosmos
with chu out of the overwatch team how much the lore will affected by that ?
limpid agate
Double agent Reyes is a shitty theory that's trying to explain why Reaper turned without any evidence but "he was a good guy"
The time between Reyes going from OW to Talon is actually longer than the time between Baptiste doing the opposite
You don't need to explain it away as "he's faking it"
"and his entire character is meaningless"
grand wedge
He wasn't a good guy, he was a guy that was geting the job done - whatever the cost.
limpid agate
@grand wedge Pharah never said it was from the crisis
grand wedge
Her comic? eddit : yeah it was was quarantined post crisis - i interpreted it - sorry!
grand wedge
well if you put it that way, then sure
Back to Reyes - that's why I was saying "double agent" isn't the right thing.
I like more the theory that he is going to get Talon - whatever the price. I don't want Retribution last panel to be meaningless if he isn't going to burn Talon down.
pliant sparrow
I've seen a few theorizing that talon will create an AI that could be compared to Anubis
acoustic badge
shouldnt ana die or retire in 2?
iron plume
There's no reason she would
They're still at large with their own mission with Soldier, and not that much time passes between Recall and 2
paper gazelle
with chu out of the overwatch team how much the lore will affected by that ?
Pretty sure not much. Why would he leave halfway through his job to complete the OW2 story? I think by now the devs alr have the story script finished, now they are bringing it into the game
Also a talented award winning writer is still in the dev team
placid fulcrum
I agree with Gwadael
what's shitty is Reyes going from sitting by Gerard's, his friend's, bedside when he's injured, to happilly working with gerard's killer
dusk ledge
How dare he
placid fulcrum
and no, this wouldn't be similar to Baptiste at all. Baptiste doesn't go from enjoying the mass murder to suddenly caring about it. He never enjoyed it, he just felt forced to go along with it, until it got to the point when he couldn't bring himself to do this anymore
dusk ledge
Yeah he has standards
placid fulcrum
so I'm more inclined to beleive that Reyes is only pretending to be cool with Talon and is secretly planning to take it out from the inside
dusk ledge
That would be interesting but he has a clear motive
But I guess that motive doesn’t really overlap with talon
So he might not be cool with talon but he’s clearly not cool with overwatch
placid fulcrum
No, that still doens't make sense
Like Gwadael said, Retribution makes it clear that Reyes is determined to destroy Talon, no matter the cost, as a revenge for their actions against overwatch and against his friend in particular
If he really did make a 180 degree turn all of the sudden, then i want to be shown his progression
dusk ledge
All good points
grand wedge
I’m not sure what’s his real motives behind this. Ow was corrupted from the beginnings so there is that
placid fulcrum
true, but why on earth would he join another corrupt organization if he's the sort of person to be unhappy about working for a corrupt organization?
plus, majority of the corruption came from the actions of Blackwatch to begin with
dusk ledge
Well what about Moria
placid fulcrum
That still doesn't explain his sudden turn against every overwatch agent, including people who were presumably as ignorant about the corruption as he was
or the fact that he apparently stopped giving shit about Gerard
grand wedge
He doesn’t care for collateral damages.
I think he is the kind of man that took hard decisions at stand by it. Killing few agents ? Who cares
placid fulcrum
It's hardly collateral damage when he keeps talking about "the list" which apaprently includes literally everybody working for overwatch
when you're deliberately hunting someone down, they're nota collateral damage, they're your primary target
grand wedge
Yeah
He has a grudge against a lot of people
Maybe he just doesn’t give a damn anymore
Just revenge
placid fulcrum
it makes more sense if he's faking this. maybe he did kill a few minor agents who he knew were no good to begin with, just so that his Talon colleagues won't get suspicious, but perhaps Doomfist is right that Jack and Ana are still alive because Reaper spared them
grand wedge
( give us Reaper lore Blizzard !)
placid fulcrum
and if he wants revenge, then taking out whoever brainwashed widowmaker should be his primary goal
grand wedge
Why would he care bout her? Or the person that brainwashed her?
placid fulcrum
because if he cared about gerard, and he clearly did, then his killer would be on his list. but seeing as widowmaker didn't kill him out of her own free will, then killing her wouldn't be a good revenge
hence why I like the idea of him only faking his loyalty to Talon, while he's trying to investigate who's the person behind the curtain
problem is, it should technically be doomfist
but was he working alone? I doubt it
atomic cosmos
hmm i wanna know who is behind gerard's wife kidnapping and brainwashing
frosty charm
pretty sure Moira was, at least for the Brainwashing part
wary mist
Can someone @ me the reason why Mcree doesn’t have his left arm and it’s robotic
grand wedge
Unknown - his prosthetic is probably the result of an injury/accident that happened in the last 6 years before the Recall
valid terrace
Would it be unreasonable to say that Reaper was conditioned similarly to Widow? Especially with the other experiments going on with him Moira could easily mess with his mind, whether through some procedure or just prolonged contact with her over time.
deft gorge
Some people say that he was on a mission with Blackwatch and got caught in a explosion 👀
I could see that happening
pliant sparrow
There's nothing to really hint towards it
valid terrace
There’s nothing to really hint towards anything yet
He just got mad when Blackwatch got shelved
deft gorge
True, but then again there's a lot of blanks to fill
valid terrace
And it seems like Soldier and by extension OW ignored his deteriorating condition
That’s all we have tbh
grand wedge
@deft gorge Torbjorn wasn't aware of him losing his arm, so it happened after McCree left Overwatch
pliant sparrow
A few people have been surprised by mccree's arm
lilac pecan
I assume after that “final” fight in the OW HQ, Gabriel had nowhere else to go and would’ve been arrested immediately
So Talon must’ve done some very impressive negotiation to convince him to join them
Add in the fact that he started having/getting his “shadowform” condition before the end of OW, and perhaps we might be onto something here
He couldn’t control it and started to endanger whoever was left in his personal life
Enter Talon with Moira
lavish elm
Not relebent
limpid agate
!!shitposting @spark scaffold
twilit nacelleBOT
@spark scaffold Shitposting will result in a loss of access.
mighty zodiac
If tracer is constantly going forward in time is she gonna age faster
proven prairie
Hm
tame osprey
how does tracers chronal accelerator work
frigid cypress
Guy Iam switch player so if you want to play with me send friend code and my level is 195
peak escarp
@tame osprey it hasn't really been explained
marsh mica
zinc moth
why did sombra become a hacker? like what was her motivation?
mighty zodiac
How does that work? If she zips forward 3 seconds in time, she’s 3 seconds older now. If she does that over and over, she’s gonna age faster
grand wedge
Time traveling isn’t an accurate science and you can find in every book/movie some flaws
Well, she age normally
hasty surge
Well if you notice she goes faster than she goes back in time too
Maybe her (I forgot what's that she's wearing) regulates it to normal time
Everytime she accelerates and go back in time
narrow nymph
!!wiki hogdrogen
twilit nacelleBOT
For more information about the game, please refer to the wiki: https://overwatch.gamepedia.com/hogdrogen
dire hatch
Hallo hi
iron plume
These don't work without a role
worthy rose
Hello gamer's
peak escarp
regardless of what makes sense, we have been told that Tracer ages normally
worthy rose
^
frosty shell
Yes, but Winston has been trying to bring it back now.
mystic bramble
@crisp escarp
subtle wing
I was wondering, is there any definitive lore about how mercy's wings allow her to fly
peak escarp
nope
limpid agate
It still plays in the Intro of Dorado
blissful cliff
hello?
tranquil sun
who is ur favourite character in lore?
peak escarp
Mei
tranquil sun
she's so sweet
it's terrible what happened
but she was strong about it
hasty surge
I would expect doctor six to say mcree lol
peak escarp
I like him as a character
but his lore hasn't really been explored
Mei's story is tragic
I also really like Mercy
and Soldier and Reaper
tranquil sun
mine is Tracer
i just like her cheery personality
zenith prawn
Tracer is a pilot, so she’s my favorite by default.
limpid agate
I think Mei is the best character is multiple respects. Character, design, story, gameplay. But I would say story wise, Bastion and Baptiste come close. Close because I am looking at their potential in Overwatch 2. Mei already has her major growth starting in OW2, and we can see it develop more over the story, but I want to see the growth of Bastion (Jeff said it would be very important) and Baptiste (a foil to some major Talon antagonists.)
peak escarp
that's another good point
Mei has grown as a character, and will continue to grow as she acts as a founder for the New Overwatch
I'd like to see Hanzo get a character arc, but I'm not sure if we will
same goes for Symmetra
woven grove
How has Mei grown?!
peak escarp
those two could have very interesting character arcs
@woven grove she starts off as a meek scientist unsure of herself in Rise and Shine, but then joins the fight in Zero Hour (with more confidence but still unsure of herself) and puts herself in danger to save civilians
woven grove
I guess
peak escarp
it would have been better if turning her backpack into a bomb was her idea instead of Winston's but still, she grew as a character
tawdry nebula
I kinda wanna know more often about Mei if she had a origin story
iron plume
Mei's origin story is Rise and Shine
tawdry nebula
how about Symmetra's story?
lavish elm
@limpid agate gameplay! Are you insane
dim scroll
I'm curious to see how the new OW2 default skins are handled in universe.
Some heroes probably don't need them from a story standpoint (Pharah, Hanzo, and Brigitte) but others it might make sense to have an updated skin (Doomfist, Bastion, and Torb.)
zinc moth
tbh I like genji's lore more interesting
how his brother was forced to kill him
and how that turned out for him
rich cove
hey guys
zinc moth
my biggest question is zenyatta
rich cove
did you watch the filler story where reaper and widowmaker go to the mall together?
grand wedge
Hanzo was seen with a new haircut in the lore, his winter casual skin. I hope his new look will reflect his growth since he met Genji.
rich cove
its so epic
reaper is like "BUY BUY BUY"
and widow maker is walking around with a sniper rifle
non-chelantly
its canon
zinc moth
wrong chat???
rich cove
nah
zinc moth
ok??
iron plume
Fan content is not lore.
atomic cosmos
found this on blizzard page
meaning it's true that brigitte remodeled rein's armor
pliant sparrow
It seems likely all three of them worked on improving it
atomic cosmos
yeah winston get some help from brig then since he doesn't use the same armor that he used to escape from the moonsite i think
dim scroll
He was using his new armor in Zero Hour, so Brigitte didn't help Winston build his new armor.
lavish elm
I wonder how they will change up McCree? They seem to be showing how characters have changed over time and I'd like to see how they reflect that with the big man
Perhaps a change to his hat, perhaps items inserted in it?
atomic cosmos
hmm i forgot about that sorry
sly knot
pls zen lore
peak escarp
inland latch
pls join
gleaming coyote
Hi
atomic cosmos
zenyatta most likely will stay on neutral side right ? even genji offer him to join OW
limpid agate
He will be featured in cinematics related to the India mission
I think its likely he will be playable
The trailer suggested it was against Talon too.
lilac pecan
- I wonder what Talon is doing in that area
- I assume Zen will remain neutral “under the Iris” but still offer his support to Genji/OW as I doubt he’s enjoying the current state of the OW World
dim scroll
I thought that the shot of Zen was in Nepal.
woeful path
Yeah that one assassin thing with sombra?
atomic cosmos
zenyatta did said something '' come back '' on that moment
grand wedge
It’s the scene before, where Genji dashes in the street, that is probably India.
But the windows where Zenyatta is, isn’t like anything existing in game. There is no such window in Nepal
dim scroll
There are symbols from the monastery in the scene, plus Zen welcomes Genji back, so that implies that it is part of Nepal that we haven't seen.
worthy rose
when is that scene
grand wedge
The symbols are "omnic script" - you also have them on license plates on cars
peak escarp
it's hard to say where that scene takes place without more context
grand wedge
it's true that the fourniture the same as in Nepal - but then again, since they just showed us 2 shots of one unannounced map... we won't know for sure where it's supposed to be
limpid agate
We have the context of that scene
@dim scroll
Here are all the pieces we have.
Its India.
To contrast, here are some pictures of Nepal
Im pretty sure these are the only arched doors you see on the map
Nepal Architecture is otherwise square
Its not Nepal
There are symbols from the monastery in the scene, plus Zen welcomes Genji back, so that implies that it is part of Nepal that we haven't seen.
Not every place that has a Catholic Church is Italy. Especially since Zen is supposed to be a wanderer that left the Shambali. If he was wandering at their doorstep, he wouldnt be a very good wanderer.
grand wedge
Only the fourniture is the same and used in the shot with Zen
limpid agate
If only we were capable of transporting vases and chairs across different households.
grand wedge
Yeah 🙂
peak escarp
reused assets are common on different maps
grand wedge
(i was agreeing with you - if you iddn't get that ^^)
limpid agate
I got it
worthy rose
to be fair india isnt that far from nepal
possibly mightve moved
maybes something happened at the nepali shambali temple
stiff hamlet
Does anyone else wonder what would happen, if Sombra was to meet Echo?
Sombra is one of the greatest hackers in the world. And Echo is a very powerful robot.
peak escarp
why would Sombra want to hack Echo? unless there was a reason, I don't think there would be any problem between them
woeful path
Ppl if you watch the zen short again, you can see that it is one of the nepal maps
peak escarp
Zen short?
stiff hamlet
I wouldn't be surprised if Sombra somehow finds out about the Echo project.
Also, there's a Zen short?
peak escarp
it's possible that Sombra gave McCree the info about Echo being on that Military train
they were at least seen in the same place at the same time, and Echo's rescue likely happens after that
stiff hamlet
True
peak escarp
if that's true, then she knows about Echo
worthy rose
didnt talon still get some info from overwatch
peak escarp
Reaper stole part of the agent database
and some former Overwatch agents now work for Talon
lilac pecan
Sombra is supposed to be one, if not the best hacker in the world. If she knows about what actually got Reinhardt kicked out of OW she must definitely have some info on Echo.
I'd assume she knows a lot of stuff but keeps it hidden from Talon in case a chance shows up for her to personally gain something from it.
stiff hamlet
Yeah
And seen from the Infiltration short, she isn’t always honest with Talon.
And she wouldn’t hesitate to do something behind their backs.
pliant sparrow
I do wonder if theres anything well beyond her capabilities of hacking
e.g. could she hack into anubis?
peak escarp
she could probably hack into anything connected to a network
if it's not on a network, she'd probably need a direct connection
like with hacking the Overwatch agent database
cosmic crest
If Sombra did give McCree the intel, then that means she's playing both sides
always thought she was more of an anti-hero
peak escarp
it's also implied that she's been giving Soldier info on Reaper
she's definitely playing both sides
she's on nobody's side but her own
zenith prawn
Are any former Overwatch agents actually mercenaries? Because the kid in the original cinematic trailer says something along the lines of “half of them are just mercenaries now” which I think is a massive exaggeration.
Although he could be referring to the unnamed Overwatch paramilitaries we see in the comics occasionally.
zenith prawn
And there’s no way he could possibly know about Reaper.
limpid agate
No
zenith prawn
Kid is full of sh*t.
peak escarp
or there's other agents he knows about that we don't
zinc moth
I think Ik what @woeful path was talking abou that zen short, Im pretty sure it was fan made and was about sombra hacking into genji's body and her plan was to attack zenyatta but he saw her comming.
limpid agate
Sounda dumb
pliant sparrow
Why would sombra need to attack zenyatta?
peak escarp
people make Zenyatta out to be a more important person than he actually is
I've seen some people even say he's Mondatta's successor
despite the fact that Zen's bio says that he left the Shambali
pliant sparrow
Genji's suit being hacked sounds a bit strange as well
stiff hamlet
Yeah
zinc moth
It was a fan-made animated short, so things accurate
atomic cosmos
fanmade can be accurated IF the story is taken from the text that overwatch team's story writing team write
if they used their own story...it's not accurated
worthy rose
Who is the most powerful character in the lore?
ornate sand
worthy rose
Nah Doom beat her
worthy rose
In the Doomfist trailer Doomfist beats her quite handily
limpid agate
Doomfist isn't on the list
Because he lost to Winston in a fist fight
Their fists collide at the end of the battle scene in that origin short
And Winston was the winner
worthy rose
True so i think its a contest between Reaper and Winston and echo
limpid agate
!!shitposting @ornate sand
twilit nacelleBOT
@ornate sand Shitposting will result in a loss of access.
limpid agate
@worthy rose The thing is, we don't know the power extent of Orisa, Symmetra, or Echo
Likewise, Sigma's gravity manipulation and creation of singularities is absurdly powerful.
But he's not a soldier.
He's a scientist
We don't know is combat capabilities
He is the strongest on paper, but maybe not in practice.
worthy rose
True
limpid agate
Orisa has an unknown limit to her durability
We don't know how Echo's mimicry works
And Symmetra is the Indian Green Lantern
worthy rose
Orisa is not as durable as Winston since if iirc Doomfist destroyed her and Winston tanked his punches
worthy rose
Oh ok
limpid agate
We dont know how much Efi upgraded her
Also, Winston didnt tank the punches well either
He went flying a few blocks
Yet he still won that fist fight
worthy rose
Yeah that was kind of wierd since Doom seemed to be a lot stronger and smarter
I think in the end Reaper is the most powerful.Since he only lost to Winston because of arrogance but thats imo.So i guess Reaper then Winston then Doom
peak escarp
why do so many people care about the most powerful?
stiff hamlet
Because power is good.
stiff hamlet
Some people see power as strength, intelligence, or just being above everyone else.
peak escarp
Doomfist has a lot of political power with his connections through Talon
D.Va has star power
Lucio too
several heroes have powerful weapons but they themselves are not powerful
limpid agate
Like Sym
She is physically weak
But her tech is
Well
I called her the Indian Green Lantern earlier
peak escarp
take away Sym's gun and she's probably pretty helpless (depending on how much of her hard light manipulation is done by her arm)
limpid agate
We haven't seen the limits of her power. Just that she can bend physics and build entire cities "in the blink of an eye"
peak escarp
take away Doomfist's gauntlet and he can still punch through concrete
stiff hamlet
True
peak escarp
Winston is arguably more dangerous without his weapon
stiff hamlet
Winston’s weapon sucks in-game.
Well, it either sucks, or I’m somehow not using it right.
limpid agate
Not relevant
peak escarp
many of the heroes/their weapons are weaker in the game because if they were as strong as they are in lore it would be unbalanced
stiff hamlet
True 
peak escarp
lore-wise, some heroes aren't even combatants, or fill completely different roles
we've never seen Lucio or Brigitte heal (aside from Brigitte doing first-aid)
stiff hamlet
Yeah
peak escarp
and Sigma is supposedly locked away in a lab somewhere, not used on missions
peak escarp
this is post-breakout
Talon doesn't use him on missions
they keep him locked away, just not restrained like he was before
stiff hamlet
Ah, my bad. There are still some things that I’m just now figuring out, since I sort of took a break from Overwatch for a few years 😐
So when it comes to the more recent heroes, I’m lost.
peak escarp
fortunately (unfortunately?) there's not too much to catch up on
but we're always looking to the future releases, like the novel in June, and OW2
stiff hamlet
Good to know.
I’ve recently seen people mentioning things like Baptiste interacting with Sombra, and now looking for Mercy.
And other “side stories” like that.
peak escarp
yes
the short stories are relatively new
the first one only came out just over a year ago
peak escarp
Bastet followed Soldier as he met up with Ana and helped him take down a local crime lord in Cairo, Egypt
it was released in January 2019
stiff hamlet
Neat
stiff hamlet
Thanks
zinc moth
@limpid agate it was a typo I meant to say not accurate lol
worthy rose
I see there was a whole discussion about sigma
patent saddle
What Baptist’s lore?
lavish elm
https://overwatch.gamepedia.com/Baptiste @patent saddle you can read it here
cosmic crest
@peak escarp what's this novel you mentioned?
lavish elm
Its about Orisa. It's titled Hero of Numbani @cosmic crest
patent saddle
@lavish elm cheers
placid fulcrum
do you think it will still come out in june, or will the release be delayed?
peak escarp
it's probably finished by now, just going through printing
grand wedge
it even has a german translation announced for the 29th july so yeah
grand wedge
did you see this? is it just some tease for the new twitter account or something else? https://www.reddit.com/r/Overwatch/comments/fz8jwq/blizzards_middle_east_account_posted_a_video_of/
placid fulcrum
wish I hadn't stopped learning arabic...
google translate says:
Mission:
Date: April 12, 2020
Location: Gibraltar
Sender: Winston
Message: "I couldn't decrypt the message. We need the password. Can you help us?"
is it leading up to the echo live debut?
peak escarp
maybe