Probably omnics or talon?
#lore-discussion
tough dove
lavish laurel
I wanna know who the other guy from Omnica was tho.
Maybe Doomfist knew about Liao.
alpine lark
Echos lore is probably gonna tie in to the omnic we saw with doomfist at the end of storm rising
limpid agate
We don't know who attacked Liao
Echo has nothing to do with that guy.
Could be Null Sector or Talon
devout sable
oooh, we're finally learning something about the beginning of the Omnic Crisis and about Omnica Corporation
limpid agate
But we saw Echo's whole story line
devout sable
also, that's Liao, right?
devout sable
F
alpine lark
Ive been discussing with people on the comment section on the reveal trailer and it seems like people really want to see interactions between echo, zarya, and bastion
peak escarp
let's hope we actually get interactions
limpid agate
Echo isn't an omnic. I'm curious to see how they'll address that.
peak escarp
the last 4 heroes didn't get any
alpine lark
i mean, she kinda is
devout sable
I was half-right about Echo being, well, someone's echo
tough dove
She is a new kind of AI and robot.
alpine lark
maybe that will be the plot of overwatch 2
peak escarp
she's a metaphorical echo, not a literal echo
alpine lark
the new, advanced type of robot
something bigger than overwatch has ever faced before
it kinda makes sense
limpid agate
She is objectively not an Omnium.
She is a robot
Because they are used interchangeably colloquially does not mean they are synonyms.
last inlet
If anything, the OW team saying that she's not should be enough
limpid agate
If Echo is an Omnic, that means Athena is an Omnic too
last inlet
So Liao was caught in an attack on some base?
tough dove
Just release her page already 
I want to learn more about her.
limpid agate
That seems to be the case
alpine lark
i just feel like a robot like echo would be much smarter than any omnic could ever be, if this new form of omnic goes evil
then the story from before would repeat
tough dove
Athena doesn't have a phycial form though. Athena is just an AI.
alpine lark
but it would be much more devastating
alpine lark
for now
tough dove
^^
alpine lark
dont you see what happens with any one of a kind product in modern society
limpid agate
Even if Null Sector takes the designs and tries making their own
last inlet
I mean, sure, but no one seems to be making moves to copy her
alpine lark
it seems one of a kind
limpid agate
The part that makes her one of a kind is her mind
alpine lark
but then eventually someone figures out how to make it not one of a kind
tough dove
Wait does Liao give her memories and stuff into Echo or?
alpine lark
i just feel like eventually every army in the world will have an echo, and overwatch wont know how to fight that
@tough dove i feel like that might be what makes echo so special in the overwatch storyline
peak escarp
no
last inlet
We don't know what Liao did outside of the obvious
Which was "create Echo"
Anything extra she did to echo is speculation
peak escarp
Echo speaks of Liao in the trailer as a separate person
last inlet
Yep
alpine lark
imagine putting a world class fighter into the body of a machine with the strength to tear everything around it into peices
last inlet
She considers herself to be an echo of Liao, but also does say Liao was who created her
So she knows they're different people
Or w/e
alpine lark
what if echo has all of liaos memorys and has seen all that liao experienced, what if they both had the same memories
thats why shes an "echo" of liao
alpine lark
welp thats just speculation, ima go do something productive for once
last inlet
But maybe she's just a robot meant to carry on Liao's work or something
With an ever learning AI
alpine lark
i feel like were putting too much thought into this
last inlet
Eh
alpine lark
im just waiting to see what sort of skins and voice lines she will have
lavish laurel
So Echo isn't exactly Cortana.
teal meadow
Tomorrow we'll probably get the developmer uptade
peak escarp
yeah
alpine lark
did your keyboard die
alpine lark
developmer uptade
limpid agate
It sounds more like she is the Echo of her personality (Built in her own image and ideals) and will be carrying out her goals
alpine lark
who cares about the trailer i honestly think the community is making the story of overwatch now, not the developers
lavish laurel
I mean, I had a similar idea for a hero...
Again...
But one that would have a split personality where one half enjoys fighting and doesn't wanna get too deadly.
And the other is straight up instakill mode, targeting both, humans and omnics.
shell panther
I can see echo having liaos memory
peak escarp
the community doesn't know what they want
zenith prawn
I think from the trailer no physical or conscious part of Liao mad it into Echo (as much as I would like that to be the story), she just copied Liao’s mannerisms.
peak escarp
they should not be allowed to write the story
limpid agate
I think from the trailer no physical or conscious part of Liao mad it into Echo (as much as I would like that to be the story), she just copied Liao’s mannerisms.
Sounds right
lavish laurel
@peak escarp I heard that line before.
alpine lark
sure we do
limpid agate
Echo does not have Liao's memory. Echo is not LIao
peak escarp
also that's not how it works
shell panther
How do you know? I get that feeling if you go hack to ashe short
lavish laurel
Fans can have decent ideas.
They can.
shell panther
Right but that doesn't mean she cant have her memory
shell panther
I'm just looking at time line and combining it with ashe short
limpid agate
And so, she created me. Her Legacy. Her Promise. Her Echo.
time line
Okay so before going further
Where do you place this in the time line
There is a wrong answer.
alpine lark
i place it before the mcree short
limpid agate
That's wrong.
shell panther
I place this right before ow went down
lavish laurel
Here's what I'm thinking.
Plan A: develop Echo and live happily ever after
Talon finds out.
Sends Null to stop her plans.
Plan B: Activate Echo and die.
limpid agate
How long before OW went down
limpid agate
I dont think our speculated answer for that has changed since we first saw Reunion
She is Overwatch property
Overwatch shut down
lavish laurel
Put her in the box.
devout sable
I'd say that even if Echo is based off Liao, even if she does have her memories, she still thinks of herself as a separate being.
lavish laurel
Ok but who deactivated her? And why and how?
peak escarp
someone mentioned that the Air Force base she was being sent to is where they dismantle aircraft that are being removed from service
shell panther
@devout sable I agree
peak escarp
she was probably being sent there as scrap
lavish laurel
And how?
peak escarp
McCree had the chip that contained her AI
lavish laurel
You'd have to turn her into scrap, first. Or get that chip out.
peak escarp
he probably took it when he left because he saw the way things were going
lavish laurel
You think she's willing to give it up?
shell panther
Who knows where it was going unless there is a official cannon
devout sable
Also, what have we learned about the Null Sector leader (?) from Storm Rising?
peak escarp
or someone else took it and gave it to him
lavish laurel
The swiss cheese gains more holes.
shell panther
Idk from how mccree interact with echo in reunion I just think that echo has liaos memory but who knows
Otherwise is there a time frame where mccree can work closely with echo
limpid agate
Also, what have we learned about the Null Sector leader (?) from Storm Rising?
That the first question mark is no longer a question mark
That's all we learned
shell panther
Who knows
devout sable
Yeah, where was that confirmed?
shell panther
Nothing about that guy is confirmed afaik
twilit nacelleBOT
For more information about the game, please refer to the wiki: https://overwatch.gamepedia.com/Unnamed_Omnic
limpid agate
The source is on the page
Of course whoever updated it didn't leave a link
So you gotta go hunting for it
If someone finds it, I'll update the wiki with the link
4th of November
So at Blizzcon
One of those vods
shell panther
Dont even know the guys name 
limpid agate
I remember hearing it back then too.
Just dont remember which Stream
In the mean time
peak escarp
I believe it was ohnickel's stream with Jeff during Storm Rising where Jeff mentioned that the omnic had to put his plans with Doomfist on hold while DF was in prison
limpid agate
I've updated !!loreShorts to include Echo Origins
peak escarp
(it was also that stream where Jeff called it "Overwatch 1" and not many people noticed)
shell panther
So anyone have answer to my question on whether there was a time frame where echo and mccree could have worked together
peak escarp
they could have worked together before Overwatch fell
5 years ago
she hasn't seen him since, because she doesn't know what happened to his arm
shell panther
So echo origin is set long before ow shutdown?
peak escarp
yes
shell panther
Before black watch or after. I kinda assumed that echo origin was when ow hq blew up
peak escarp
it's hard to tell
but probably before
Echo's bio might have more answers, when it gets posted
lilac pecan
I mean, the explosion - there’s a plausible explanation for each theory
OW - this happened in the final battle and Liao got caught in the battle
Talon - they wanted the technology
NS - technology or prevent an advanced omnic to show off to the world
peak escarp
we also don't know if or for how long Liao coexisted with Echo
lilac pecan
One also has to wonder what was her cocoon thing doing on the train during the mccree short and where was it headed towards
peak escarp
I would assume Liao finished Echo before being killed
@lilac pecan it was being sent to a US Air Force base in Tuscon, Arizona
possibly to be scrapped
lilac pecan
Do we know where was Echo being built/developed?
peak escarp
I would assume at the Overwatch HQ in Switzerland
lilac pecan
If it was in the OW HQ, then it must’ve been moved overseas, which can also imply that some organisation cleared through the rubble of the old base and either gave the good stuff to governments or other organisations
peak escarp
that seems likely
Overwatch did have bases around the world though
so she may have been in one in America
lilac pecan
True, and the backstory also implied Omnica corp or something like that. Didn’t they have a factory in Detroit?
south ether
onyx marsh
is she support?
fresh tundra
Presumably
brazen flare
i still have hope she will be added tp the ptr today
peak escarp
probably tomorrow
brazen flare
ugh, its against the law to say that
placid fulcrum
considering that Liao was working for omnica, she did have a part in the creation of the Null Sector leader and Anubis, even if indirectly
similarly to how Orisa claims that Torbjorn is in part responsible for her creation, even though she was directly created by Efi
peak escarp
yeah
I hope we do get some interactions finally
because I need Torb/Echo interactions
sharp orbit
Uh
Did anyone notice how Echo's hands look different between Reunion/Zero Hour, Overwatch 2 gameplay and her origin story?
One design is all white
another is all glowy blue
and another is partial black and glowy blue as seen in the origin story
Wonder if that's design inconsistency and one of those is now the final design or if it's intentional and for some reason her hands change throughout the story
peak escarp
probably just design changes
sharp orbit
Most likely but now I wonder which is the final design. Probably the origin story one since it's the latest production
wait I forgot to check her hands in the sit emote
Yeah her hands there is the origin story design
looks like that's the final design after all
so they should be updated in Overwatch 2 and any other new things
placid fulcrum
watching the polish dubbing of the story, and it gives some more info
for example Liao specifically says "this is the end"
implying she's indeed dead
placid fulcrum
in polish she specifically says "this is the end" that's a literal translation
she doens't ask either, she just states it as if it was a fact
also, jack's line is different
when liao says that she helped create the omnics, he says "and now you can help us fight them"
interesting that both language versions have her say that she "helped" create the omnics. like they want to underline that she isn't THE creator of the omnics, just one of the many people who worked on them
peak escarp
Torbjorn also helped create them
placid fulcrum
yeah
also, I love all of the visual and audio symbolism in the short
like how most of liao's lines are echoed
placid fulcrum
or how her face is lit blue in the same way echo's is
brazen flare
if she just gonna be shown off
and then we need to wiat for hewr to be relesed properly
who even is this guy, why cant we have a trditional video why do we need cringe jeff interacts with some twitch guy iv never heard of
peak escarp
they did the same thing with Sigma
brazen flare
really? i swear i didnt see it
peak escarp
they show off the hero with a popular streamer, then put them on PTR right after
at 11am
brazen flare
ugh i was really hoping it be a suprise on the ptr today
making us wait longer they might aswell ahve doen the reveal tommorow
placid fulcrum
it's better to intruce a hero via a streamer who knows how to platy them, than just drop them on the ptr and a bunch of people declare her unviable because they don't know how to properly use her abilities
brazen flare
he probably has been breifed on her abilitys before hand
maybe even has had her unlocked for him in some way shape or form
peak escarp
last time with Seagull showing off Sigma, they had him playing on the Blizzard servers
at Blizzard
livid elbow
I wonder if Liao was the one to create the God Programs
brazen flare
I know seagull, so maybe thats why i was less annoyed like i am now
i dont know this tim
peak escarp
livid elbow
if that was what lead to the Omnic Crisis
peak escarp
he's pretty amusing
brazen flare
they should have got seagull
thorn ibex
Was Sigma ever mentioned before his announce?
limpid agate
No
Orisa, Ashe, Baptiste, and Sigma were not known as characters before their teaser/release
If you include Reunion as a teaser for Ashe
Ana and Brigitte were known as full fledged named/faced/characters
Moira was known by face
Hammond was known by name
Sombra, Doomfist, and Wrecking Ball were known by name and silhouette (Sombra's changed though)
I would argue Orisa was also known by shape before hand, but that changed.
But because it changed, its hard to justify.
peak escarp
Sigma wasn't known beforehand (because he didn't exist), but there were clues that the writing team took advantage of for his story
like the warning signs on Lijiang
limpid agate
Something worth noting
I didnt see get discussed because I wasnt here
Was the bio of the origin short
A description that reminds me of the omniums
thorn ibex
The name, Sigma, was actually in the game before his release.
placid fulcrum
yeah, the rapidly adapting artificial intelligence part is kinda... worrisome
thorn ibex
Weird how the character wasnt..
placid fulcrum
but nah, she doesn't look evil
peak escarp
@thorn ibex yes but that wasn't related to the character Sigma
placid fulcrum
I'll be surprised if she's supposed to be evil
peak escarp
Echo isn't evil
limpid agate
The name, Sigma, was actually in the game before his release.
Sigma is unrelated to the clothing store on Numbani
Called Sigma: Bot Couture
livid elbow
I wonder if Liao is the one that created the God Programs as well
limpid agate
It doesn't look like she made Anubis
Unless it was created by Omnica
Which we don't know.
livid elbow
okay, and Mina Liao, what nationality is she?
limpid agate
They haven't told us yet.
livid elbow
okay
teal meadow
Liao is asian
peak escarp
Asia isn't a country
teal meadow
Chinese
dim scroll
I doubt it. We already have a Chinese hero with Mei.
teal meadow
Does it really matter?
dim scroll
It doesn't
teal meadow
We have tons of americans
dim scroll
This is true.
teal meadow
2 french
dim scroll
Widow Maker, and?
peak escarp
Widowmaker is our only French hero
dim scroll
IIRC, USA has three heroes with Soldier: 76, Reaper, and McCree. Japan has 2 heroes with Hanzo and Genji.
peak escarp
unless you're counting Gerard, who isn't playable (and is dead)
USA has 4 heroes
Soldier, Reaper, McCree and Ashe
dim scroll
True
dim scroll
The only other place that has multiple heroes is the moon, with Winston and Wrecking Ball.
fallen grove
Torb & brig
dim scroll
Yes, but they aren't from the same country.
lilac pecan
Ana & Pharah, both Egyptian
dim scroll
True @fallen grove
Apparently there a more heroes from the same areas than I thought.
brazen flare
we really need zens lore video already
placid fulcrum
there's a woman and a man in the background of the omnica picture
calling it first - the half-hidden man is the one responsible for omnics turning evil
opaque tundra
Or maybe he's just a random dude...
last inlet
but maybe he is
opaque tundra
If he's not a random dude you can call me wrong
peak escarp
I doubt it
placid fulcrum
tornjorn implies during his interaction with bastion that bastion was able to break away from his programming by being good
so he was specifically programmed to be evil
peak escarp
we don't know what happened
opaque tundra
What do you mean by "evil"
peak escarp
the omnics were given a learning AI
placid fulcrum
yeah, hence why I'm speculating that someone was behind this
the original omnic crisis was man-made
of course, this is only a theory. there's not much evidence for it now
aside from torb implying it. the bastion is different from others because it was able to break away from its programming, essentially becoming sentient
which implies that when it was evil, it wasn't sentient yet
fringe blade
thats not what sentient means though
placid fulcrum
self-aware
fringe blade
I dont think thats the right word to use
placid fulcrum
"not just mindlessly doing what it's told"
like those manufacturing omnics suddenly leaving factories in search of the meaning of life
peak escarp
sapient
placid fulcrum
yeah, that
austere pelican
are genji and mercy in a relationship?
austere pelican
does genji admire (like) mercy?
peak escarp
he seems to
austere pelican
ty
brazen flare
he likes angela alot even buying a gift for her on valentines day
tho i dont think they have the same outlook on life
brazen flare
hes infatuated with her because she saved him from death and he admiers and finds her beautiful
limpid agate
I think that might be the Omnica logo
Otherwise, its just some random button/HUD shit
peak escarp
makes me think of the Hyde Global logo seen in Going Legit, but not quite
that logo looks like (-)
coincidentally, Going Legit and Echo's origin trailer were both written by Robert Brooks
lilac pecan
It's possible Bastion's programming changed due to wear-out caused by time and nature growing around it
limpid agate
!!wiki Hyde_Global
twilit nacelleBOT
For more information about the game, please refer to the wiki: https://overwatch.gamepedia.com/Hyde_Global
lilac pecan
And if the Omnics had a learning AI, then I imagine they did an Ultron and found out about the atrocities humanity did in the past and present, and some started thinking "this needs correction"
safe trout
Echo doesn’t have gold on her
Her in game model doesn’t have any gold
Every time we’ve seen her she’s had some gold
limpid agate
The model has gold
Its just the angle of that one animation we saw
That makes it hard to see
And the resolution
I put squares around the gold parts
safe trout
Oh ok
royal goblet
Echo is support?
peak escarp
we don't know yet
royal goblet
I have a hunch she is
covert pebble
Huh
peak escarp
Athena is like Echo's big sister
covert pebble
Coolbeans, wasn’t sure what the connection was there
brazen flare
i cnat wiat to see what legendary skins she gets
way more thna seeing her specificlaly
zenith prawn
So Echo is significantly more advanced then Athena, right? I think of Athena as a “dumb” AI more in the vein of Siri or Aexa, but Echo has sentience, more like an Omnic?
covert pebble
Is Echo’s consciousness different than that of her creator’s? (Like Efi and Orisa) or is she a digital copy?
ivory parcel
sand dome
Echo gets released tommorow in ptr
crisp ferry
Well.. now I actually have a reason to reinstall the PTR.
crisp ferry
I only uninstalled it because there was nothing new to test ( Besides hero pools, but we don't talk about that ) for the past 5-6 months.
brazen flare
i wish she was out today
restive flower
crisp ferry
TimTheTatMan will be streaming tomorrow with Jeff Kaplan at around 10AM PST
Just a little FYI
limpid agate
We know, its in #overwatch-news
crisp ferry
worthy rose
Sweet. New Hero.
Echo is cool and all. Through I'm still waiting for the Junker Queen as a Hero through. Plus also the Next Episode of Junker Town since 2017.
deft gorge
True true
peak escarp
next episode?
deft gorge
Yea like the next part to it
peak escarp
why would there be a next part?
deft gorge
I dunno.. I feel like they left us on a weird point for them
zenith prawn
Why does Echo have a Vishkar logo on her forehead?
peak escarp
she doesn't
zenith prawn
It could be a stylized variant.
zenith prawn
Well what is it?
peak escarp
it's just decoration
zenith prawn
Alright I'll accept that much.
zenith prawn
And why was echo being shipped to Davis-Monthan AFB?
Is that implying that they were going to scrap her?
peak escarp
possibly
zenith prawn
Could it have something to do with the fact that what she was being shipped in looked somewhat like a bomb?
peak escarp
they seemed to know it was a capsule/container
zenith prawn
Guess I misremembered. I thought it had fins but maybe not.
peak escarp
before the reveal a lot of people assumed it was a bomb
prisma wren
?
shell jay
Who do you guys think will be the next LGBTQ hero?
crisp ferry
I mean, I don't really know @shell jay
shell jay
I think either Hanzo as gay, Sojourn as a lesbian, Brig as bi, or Ashe as bi. Those are my assumptions
limpid agate
I dont think it really matters
They promised more than one
We have two
So we don't really care to speculate it anymore
shell jay
ye
So do we know what Junkrat's treasure is yet? (Sorry for always asking so much questions, I just have alot of interest in the lore and need some refreshers sometimes)
peak escarp
nope
it might not even be something physical
it could be something he learned while poking around in the defunct omnium that Junkertown is built out of
last inlet
Basically where they're created. Factories owned by Omnica
peak escarp
yeah
timid eagle
Omnium's were factories owned by the Omnnica Corporation during the early 2030's.
timid eagle
Basically, they were the birthplace for most of the humanoid Omnic's you see in the series.
Basically, yeah.
But, I do need to stress this, they HAD a monopoly on manufacturing before they went kaput.
last inlet
I can't think of many other robotics companies in the OW world
last inlet
Maybe they're the only ones who thought to make that kind of robot
with a learning AI
gray frost
Oh shit there's people here
peak escarp
Omnica was shut down before the crisis, but the omniums woke themselves back up and wages war on humankind
timid eagle
According to the Wiki: "The omniums began to malfunction, and analysts determined that their growth and output would never be able to meet corporate projections. Investigations followed, uncovering evidence of corporate fraud and leading to the forcible dissolution of Omnica Corporation and the dismantling of the omniums."
peak escarp
omnics are still being produced post-crisis
Zenyatta was made post-crisis
he's only 20
gray frost
Oh shit nice
peak escarp
the crisis ended ~25 years ago
gray frost
Didn't even send any messages and Im already learning
timid eagle
Yep, and Orisa was made/redesigned from the older OR-15 models, which Doomfist single-handily destroyed.
gray frost
Yeah there's an Orisa lodged in the wall
timid eagle
So she's barely several month's old in Overwatch's timeframe.
gray frost
Wait OR15 is the green ones, but what about the purple ones that share the general OR15 shape
Are those just newer models
Ahhhh thanks
gray frost
I'm very inexperienced if you couldn't tell
peak escarp
OR15s came later
timid eagle
The OR-14's you see in Uprising were repurposed from the first Crisis. The OR-15's were the redesigned version you see in the Numbani Airport and Orisa's origin's video.
peak escarp
and Orisa was made from an OR15 that got smashed by Doomfist
gray frost
Is there an OR13, OR12, OR11, OR10, OR9, OR8, OR7, OR6, OR5, OR4, OR3, OR2, and OR1
timid eagle
Technically, yes. But those models are not important to the story.
gray frost
I love being annoying
timid eagle
Eh, I don't mind.
gray frost
So there are technically "Villains" in the lore right
Those still associated with Talon
peak escarp
timid eagle
Yep. Currently, Talon, Null Sector, and several smaller pockets are going to serve as the antagonists for OW2.
last inlet
Likely
timid eagle
From what's shown in the trailer, he plays a heavy role in the Talon-focused missions. Doomfist probably learned of his betrayal, so he's probably going to hang Max up to dry.
peak escarp
Maximilien seems like he will be important
in the OW2 gameplay trailer, we hear Maximilien telling Doomfist "I can't do this"
gray frost
Is Ashe a villain or is she like Junkrat and Roadhog, just there
peak escarp
maybe he has second thoughts about starting a war
last inlet
I mean, she's no hero
timid eagle
Ashe and her Deadlock gang are not, in the traditional sense. They are an evil band of bandits and outlaws.
last inlet
She's still leader of the Deadlock Gang
timid eagle
And Junkrat and Roadhog are more along the lines of petty thieves that were tossed out of JunkerTown.
last inlet
old school biker gang
gray frost
McCree was a former co-leader or something right
timid eagle
Yep.
last inlet
co founder
gray frost
Oh shit I know Hammond was involved in Junkertown for a while
timid eagle
But after being caught by Blackwatch, Gabe gave the young cowboy a choice: Either he joins Blackwatch, or rots in prison.
gray frost
Was he taken in by overwatch or is he just roaming
timid eagle
At the moment, the little guy is doing his own thing and roaming the world, searching for adventure.
gray frost
My brain is all over the place
Uh...
Ashe again
Does b.o.b have any story or was he just always there
Him and his very cool hat
safe trout
B.O.B was her families butler I think?
peak escarp
he's the Ashe family butler
timid eagle
BOB was Ashe's butler, and basically the only thing close to a guardian while her biological parents were out doing their own thing. She was a bit of a problem child growing up.
gray frost
Ok nice
timid eagle
The difference, is Ashe upgraded B.O.B with semi-automatic guns when she formed the Deadlock gang.
gray frost
Ana lost her eye to Widowmaker right
peak escarp
yes
gray frost
Oh shit that's pretty neat
timid eagle
Yes. And, oh boy, that was tragic.
peak escarp
you can see it in the comic "Legacy"
timid eagle
And Ana's origin video.
peak escarp
we find out later that Ana had amnesia after that, and spent a few months as a nobody in a Polish hospital
gray frost
So Ana, Jack, and Gabriel are all thought to be dead
My questions are nuanced and never ending, my apologies
timid eagle
They are worth a read. Baptiste's short story, "What You Left Behind" is a pretty solid read. Mauga is basically a Talon Heavy Assault unit in size and strength, but can swap between being a cunning bastard to a sadist. He's legitimately cool. @gray frost
timid eagle
From what's been shown in the OW2 trailer, Genji has rejoined Winston's new Overwatch.
gray frost
I'm talking about like after OW but before OW2
timid eagle
Hanzo is still trying to find his purpose in life.
peak escarp
Genji went back to Nepal to hang with Zenyatta
timid eagle
Yeah... Zen is pretty anemic for lore and backstory.
peak escarp
these Echo teasers gave a bit of what might be Zen lore
bitter leaf
how
peak escarp
there was a mention of manufacturing omnics working on an assembly line walking away from their jobs to find meaning in their lives
that could be what Zenyatta was before he was a monk
timid eagle
He's basically Genji's master and therapist, who was the emotional pillar to help the cyborg ninja cope with adjusting to his artificial body. By the time OW2 starts, it seems he's comfortable with his position in life, along with his body.
gray frost
You think this might make Mundatta relevant or nah?
timid eagle
Mundatta (I love this reference) isn't irrelevant. He was one of the few beings who envisioned a future in which man and machine could coexist as peers.
Really, he was one of the few bright spots in another wise bleak future.
gray frost
RIP Mondatta
peak escarp
Mondatta
gray frost
His death sparked the little Tracer and Widowmaker rivalry right
Wait im confused
Torb took in bastion?
peak escarp
read the comic "Binary"
gray frost
Did he or no
peak escarp
Bastion wandered up to Sweden, and Torbjorn went to stop it
bitter leaf
torb is a kind father
peak escarp
but Torb realized Bastion wasn't being violent or aggressive, so he adopted it and took it home to Gothenburg with him
gray frost
Then why is this a character interaction between Torb and Bastion
"I hate working with these talking tin cans"
" * sad beep boop * "
bitter leaf
😔
maybe he isnt a kind father then
seems out of character tho considering thats kinda his job
gray frost
And also
" * beep boop * "
"Hey! Stop following me around, shoo!"
gray frost
It confuses my brain that these are voice lines despite his association with Bastion
peak escarp
peak escarp
Zenyatta has an interaction asking about Torbjorn taking in Bastion
bitter leaf
it says "i hear that you have taken in an omnic torbjorn"
peak escarp
he still has those interactions because they don't take old interactions out after the story progresses
worthy rose
Torbjorn is the hard father who is good at heart but stuck in his ways
gray frost
Oh ok
bitter leaf
they need to be more consistent smh
gray frost
So is there anyone in overwatch that genuinely despises omnics
peak escarp
that's what Overwatch 2 is for
gray frost
Well OW2 has to be canon
peak escarp
there's going to be story in that one
gray frost
Yeah
peak escarp
Torbjorn, Zarya, Roadhog and Junkrat all hate omnics
gray frost
Only torb
I meant like in Overwatch
As in the organization
I know about the other 3
peak escarp
Overwatch itself wasn't really friendly to omnics
Echo is the only omnic member we know of
gray frost
I know that someone didn't condone of Moira's experiments and someone else took her in, but I'm not sure if it's random scientists reject and overwatch took in, or overwatch rejects and Talon takes in
timid eagle
@bitter leaf Torb's relationship with Bastion is a weird one. While the cracks of his robo racism are starting, he still isn't too fond of AI-powered robots.
Brigitte has a pretty healthy relationship with Bastion, tho.
peak escarp
Overwatch shut down Moira's experiments, Blackwatch took her in but she got exposed, then Talon offered her a job
bitter leaf
oh so hes fine with robots that dont have control over themselves, and are controlled by humans basically
peak escarp
he just doesn't like "thinking tin cans"
gray frost
I know Rein has an interaction with Bastion specific to Eichenwalde
timid eagle
Though by the time OW2 starts, he had given Bastion his old Overwatch hat to wear, along with upgrading his body.
gray frost
Oh that's nice
timid eagle
So, the old softie is warming up to Bastion. But slowly.
gray frost
Rein says something like "I killed a lot of your kind here" or something
timid eagle
Rein is an interesting case. While he doesn't have any issue with our Bastion per-say, he still has some bad PTSD with the unit from the first Crisis.
Unlike for his short friend, Reinhardt otherwise has no issues with Omnics.
In his mind, they are people who need protecting.
As shown in the "We are Overwatch" trailer, where he's protecting an omnic & human couple from a group of rioters in King's Row.
peak escarp
Balderich?
peak escarp
he's dead
gray frost
Obviously he had enough influence to be selected to be in overwatch
Yeah I mean before he died
peak escarp
he was supposed to join Overwatch, but he was wounded saving Reinhardt's life, so Reinhardt went in his place
timid eagle
That 'bald friend' is his commander, who had influenced Rein to be less of an arrogant show off and more of a compassionate team player.
orchid musk
z
gray frost
All germans in overwatch are related
timid eagle
My bad.
foggy notch
In relations between Cree and Echo?
timid eagle
Basically, if you watch the Honor and Glory short, you can see why Rein owns so much to his former commanding officer.
peak escarp
aside from them both being in Overwatch
gray frost
I saw that short
I want more of what happens between Sombra and uh...
That lady
Volskaya
timid eagle
Katya Volskaya?
gray frost
Her
peak escarp
there hasn't been much more
timid eagle
Katya was not keen on being Sombra's 'friend', so she sent Zarya to track down the hacker.
peak escarp
in the comic "Searching" Katya sends Zarya to track her down, but Sombra tells Zarya that Katya is playing both sides so Zarya lets her go
gray frost
Oh wow
Wasn't Zarya assigned to do it with an Omnic
That's like
A match made in hell
gray frost
They got hacked right
peak escarp
they did, yes
timid eagle
Though she (Zarya) definitely has a change of heart after that mission, along with becoming disillusioned with the war.
gray frost
Are omnics genderless
gray frost
Oh alright
peak escarp
Zenyatta is male, Orisa and Echo are female, Lynx 17 is nonbinary, and Bastion has no gender
gray frost
I heard somewhere that Anubis is an AI, but I've heard nothing else
peak escarp
yes
Anubis is a powerful AI that was quarantined by Overwatch ~10 years ago
recently, it broke out and Pharah (working for Helix Security) and her team put it back
gray frost
So how does the map tie into it
timid eagle
The temple (where the defenders spawn) is the entrance to his chamber.
The area is also the location where Ana (as the alias Shrike) prowls and hunts criminals as a vigilante.
gray frost
Shrike?
I have that skin
Athena was planned to be an omnic but they decided to make her just an AI right
I can't send the picture but I have it
peak escarp
no
timid eagle
To the best of my knowledge, no.
gray frost
Can I dm one of you
peak escarp
gray frost
The middle image
peak escarp
Echo's early designs had Athena's logo on them, but that was just to fill space
timid eagle
Echo's design was based off of early development artwork for a character named Iris, but has no relation otherwise.
gray frost
Oh ok
peak escarp
Athena and Echo were always separate
timid eagle
^
peak escarp
Athena and Echo were created by the same person
gray frost
I like IRIS character design
peak escarp
so you could say Athena is Echo's big sister
timid eagle
Well, Echo is basically that, and much more.
gray frost
So is there any difference between an AI and an Omnic, besides a body
peak escarp
not really
timid eagle
No. Omnic is a name that was given to robots that were manufactured by the Omnica Corp.
gray frost
So if you really wanted to you could turn Athena into a person
timid eagle
And, sometimes, is a blanket term given to robots who have mid-to-high AI.
gray frost
Even though that sounds really inefficient
timid eagle
Those are murky waters to tread.
peak escarp
if it's possible to put an AI into a body, then sure
she might be integrated with her computer system though
frosty shell
@peak escarp was your "Balderich isn't Rein's uncle" comment a reference to that person on Reddit that swore that was true and that Chu confirmed it
peak escarp
no, someone here said it a few lines before that
frosty shell
Oh
frosty shell
Maybe you read that post on Reddit calling Balderich Rein's uncle?
gray frost
Im gonna look for the leak so I can quote it
But someone saw the silhouettes of the next 3 heroes
Or the next 3 potential heroes
peak escarp
I thought it was 4
frosty shell
It wasn't even really a leak
placid fulcrum
Yeah. Including the fox lady.
frosty shell
It was a reporter who saw them briefly
timid eagle
Keep in mind that those silhouettes are not what you call final designs for those four heroes. For all we know, the dog might be it's very own character.
peak escarp
that would be weird
peak escarp
we've had enough playable animals
timid eagle
It could be a robot dog. But my point still stands.
We are speculating at this point, anywho.
peak escarp
Sojourn
peak escarp
timid eagle
Yep.
gray frost
When the-
timid eagle
She will make her debut in OW2.
gray frost
Where have I been
gray frost
I'm not too well versed in my ow lore knowledge, I only found out this game existed and got it a week before Sigma came out
timid eagle
Hey, we are more than welcome to help you out. :3
peak escarp
if you want to learn about the lore, this is a good place
timid eagle
She's basically a badass cyborg/military woman who has been around since the founding of Overwatch.
gray frost
So wait how did Ana know Widowmaker before, like what about their relationship made Ana hesitate to shoot
timid eagle
Widowmaker is brainwashed, and was the husband of a high-ranking Overwatch operative.
gray frost
Oh ok
timid eagle
It's actually pretty tragic.
gray frost
She was a ballet dancer or is that incorrect
timid eagle
She was.
gray frost
Dude your punctuation makes all your short sentences really scary
peak escarp
gray frost
Or maybe I'm just an internet degenerate
timid eagle
More precisely, she was an accomplished ballet dancer who was married to Gerald Lacroix.
gray frost
Her chin got waaaaay sharper
peak escarp
artistic differences
gray frost
Fair
timid eagle
She always had sharp features.
timid eagle
...Moving on...
gray frost
Yes moving on
peak escarp
gray frost
Reaper was given his abilities by Moira right
peak escarp
yes
timid eagle
Yes and no.
gray frost
Oh
peak escarp
gray frost
I know something was going on after the Soldier/Reaper feud
And the accident happened
I think moira just helped channel it
peak escarp
Reaper was already an enhanced human before Moira experimented on him
same as Soldier
gray frost
Yeah I know
76 and 24
But he has something going on with his particles dying and regenerating
peak escarp
right
timid eagle
While we know he had a medical condition, speculation that it was a nasty side effect of the Soldier Enhancement program, Moira basically used Gabe as a guinea pig to test different ways to help 'fix' his condition.
timid eagle
Yeah, Reaper being an angry, emo gas cloud is mostly in part of Moira.
Her fade ability is an enhanced version of Reaper's wrath ability.
frosty shell
Well time dissociation
peak escarp
chronal disassociation
gray frost
That
If it worked how it was described tracer would be busted in game
If anything worked like it did in the lore the game would be busted honestly
frosty shell
Not really for the first one
Tracer's abilities have been shown in lore many times and they're not that far off from the game
gray frost
But she would have infinite control over her perception of time
frosty shell
The only differences are that she can blink up and has less of a cooldowb
gray frost
Overwatch would play like SuperHot
frosty shell
She can't Control time for anyone but herself though
timid eagle
Yep. And she can't really change the past.
frosty shell
She just can't change the past at all
gray frost
So Recall is a thing in lore or no
frosty shell
Yes
timid eagle
Yes.
frosty shell
She does it in Alive
gray frost
She used it in the OW2 trailer too right
timid eagle
Yep.
timid eagle
The game abilities aren't always 1:1 with what's shown in the cinematics or comics (if that's the case, then the game would be comically unbalanced).
gray frost
Yeah brig would be...
frosty shell
Like Mercy can't resurrect totally dead people
gray frost
My god brig's rocket flail...
timid eagle
Anyway, Recall is cannon to the lore, and Winston is the current leader of Overwatch 2.0.
timid eagle
No.
peak escarp
Snowball is a drone
gray frost
So no gender
timid eagle
He's a cute drone and has something of a playful and sometimes cheeky personality, but he's a drone.
peak escarp
its model number is SB-1
gray frost
Ok
You guys are q u i c k
And then DVA
Mercy saved her or was that just someone who looked similar
Like Alejandra and Sombra
peak escarp
the little girl was named Hanan
frosty shell
Similar name too so I guess that could cause more confusion
gray frost
Do you think the rest of DVA's squad would be brought into the game
timid eagle
I doubt it.
peak escarp
not likely
peak escarp
but I would like to find out more about them
gray frost
Yeah they seemed cool
peak escarp
especially Casino
gray frost
They had roles
timid eagle
And maybe flesh out that mechanic, who I forget his name.
peak escarp
Dae-hyun
gray frost
Are there any actual canon ships
peak escarp
canon romantic relationships are
- Tracer and Emily
- Torbjorn and Ingrid
- Ana and Sam
- Amelie and Gerard (formerly)
- Jack and Vincent (formerly)
gray frost
Soldier is gay for no reason other than they wanted him to be, like that doesn't tie into anything right
Well like
timid eagle
...What?
gray frost
Relevant lore wise
peak escarp
Mercy and Genji's relationship hasn't been clarified - they could be just friends, or they could be romantically involved
gray frost
Does Soldier being gay have to do with any important lore
frosty shell
I mean, knowing that he hasn't had any love interests in ~30 years reveals something about his personality
gray frost
I hear a lot of complaints that Blizzard only made him gay to pander/ for relevancy
timid eagle
Personally, I don't buy that.
timid eagle
And it's not like it wasn't hinted before.
frosty shell
We saw the picture back in Reflections
timid eagle
That, and Tracer reminded Jack of himself.
peak escarp
peak escarp
Junkrat was a fan of Wrecking Ball, but had no idea he was a hamster
timid eagle
Junkrat had a cameo in Hammond's Origin video, as a spectator in the JunkerTown arena.
peak escarp
gray frost
Did hog also see
frosty shell
We don't know
gray frost
To the right I think hog is also there
timid eagle
We do know Hog isn't all that interested with going to JunkerTown, outside from doing business with the locals.
frosty shell
Especially because the Queen won't let him in
peak escarp
Bruce is sitting next to Junkrat
timid eagle
Before meeting Junkrat, Hog hated going to JunkerTown.
gray frost
Can I send a message to someone with image perms
midnight shoal
Yes?
timid eagle
Hog is a late 40's/early 50's fella, who after giving so much in the ALF, he was basically tossed to the sidelines.
gray frost
I don't wanna intrude on someone's dms so I'm simply asking permission @midnight shoal
ALF?
timid eagle
Australian Liberation Front.
gray frost
Oh yeah militia skin
timid eagle
He, along with most of the farmers and people living in the area (where the former Australian Omnium resided) had fought to reclaim their land.
When the Australian Govt. had given it to the Omnics as a peace token, post crisis.
Most of the people were forced to move out of the area, most of which had lived there for generations.
timid eagle
The Outback omnium and its omnics were given the Australian omnium and its surrounding land after the Omnic Crisis, in an attempt to make long-term peace. Dissatisfied human residents created the Australian Liberation Front, which destroyed the omnium and unintentionally turned the Outback into an irradiated wasteland.
Its remains were used to create Junkertown, and the Junkers continue to pilfer the omnium
gray frost
How does overwatch accidentally create a great lore that has nothing to do with their game
That's so sad honestly
There's much potential in overwatch lore
timid eagle
And Roadhog, being a veteran of the ALF, doesn't care what happens to the people who reside in that city. They could rot in the sun.
Especially when the current residents of JunkerTown don't give a hoot to the veterans that fought in that conflict.
Anyway, I need to head to bed.
gray frost
Yeah it's like 3 AM
timid eagle
Go and do some research. There's some good stuff in the Gamepedia Overwatch site.
worthy rose
Is Liao dead now?
worthy rose
:(
I’ve been waiting to hear about Liao’s story for 4 years now
Now I’m just upset they killed her off...
And immediately too
gray frost
I mean I'm not 100% sure about it but with Echo being Liao's "Echo" it could be an AI version of her
well no there's lore that's very obviously gonna be fleshed out
her association with Omnica Corperationi
gray frost
as it seems she's the lead cause for the creation of omnics, i'd assume that they'd go more into that
yeah that's
a RIP
I wonder who attacked the lab though
worthy rose
Probably more extremists
gray frost
well no these are Overwatch labs
worthy rose
Top secret labs can be attacked too
gray frost
I'm just saying there would be no reason to attack an Overwatch lab just because of your hate for omnics when their cause is protection from omnics
worthy rose
If Echo doesn’t at least contain a part of Liao’s consciousness, I’m gonna be a bit mad.
Because I don’t like the fact they killed off Liao immediately after we start getting to know who she was
worthy rose
Yeah same
gray frost
their voices are pretty similar
worthy rose
I hope it’s the case
gray frost
not the same though
worthy rose
I wonder who locked up Echo then...
worthy rose
No I mean during the Reunion cinematic
gray frost
oh wait you mean after
yeah
I mean Overwatch was shut down
so there was no reason to keep her around
worthy rose
Yes and Echo still has a will of her own
gray frost
they needed to put her away, but keep her protected, just in case
worthy rose
So there’s no reason to just see her as a tool when she could do something she wants
So I’m guessing someone captured her
gray frost
Her AI was in a chip right
gray frost
yeah McCree put a chip in her chest area and she "woke up"
but McCree had the chip beforehand
hasty surge
Why did he have it then?
gray frost
her body was put away but the AI was kept
not sure...
Winston did call McCree
and if they got in touch, he could've gotten hold of it
worthy rose
Seems like McCree doesn’t actually wanna come back to Overwatch
worthy rose
Yep
gray frost
but he does owe them
and i guess echo was his friend
so small favors wouldnt be too far of speculation
gray frost
he seems to be really friendly with Echo though
worthy rose
She probably was his friend
gray frost
you should probably watch it again
ive only seen it like 3 times
dont trust me
i dont even trust me
worthy rose
Either way, Overwatch is pretty much labeled as criminals by multiple governments currently so we’ll see how that works out.
gray frost
It's all Gabriel's fault to be honest
worthy rose
It really is.
gray frost
There's a bunch of shit I wanna see more of though, like random shit but like good shit. Random good shit
worthy rose
Although he was right about the fact that he was in a position where he couldn’t let the Italian guy leave either considering he’d always just be back if they locked him up.
thorn ibex
Why did Reyes kill the guy during Retribution?
gray frost
I'm gonna make a list of random shit I wanna see and then not get to see it because it's so random