"feels good to finally get to focus on the research that I am truly passionate about"
#lore-discussion
peak escarp
that sounds like something you say after you've already been working on your passion project for a while
placid fulcrum
good point
also, one more thing to support the liao made anubis theory - that one atlas news article which mentioned that multiple overwatch members left the organization in disgrace
wraith sierra
what was the theory about anubis?
placid fulcrum
liao made anubis, the malicious AI which attacked egypt and pharah was dealing with it in her comic
crisp ferry
Liao made my least favorite map, great! /s
Imagine advertising on an Overwatch lore channel.
timid eagle
With what's been revealed, this can go two ways:
- It sounds like she is doing this experiment to herself and the "everyone" she is talking to are trying to stop/save her. Mina is potentially dying and she uploads a copy of her consciousness into her prototype omnic, Echo, named as such because she's an echo of Mina and not really Mina. I bet Echo acknowledges that she isn't the real Mina, and tells people to call her Echo to help people accept her creators death.
- Mina has been trying to work on an AI that would help bridge the relations between Omnics and humans. In her attempts, she had 3 notable creations. The first AI was an attempt to bridge relations through peace and enlightenment, which lead to him becoming a Shambali monk (Zenyatta).
The second attempt, while still having mechanical functions, was not restricted by it's programming; this AI possesses the ability to make decisions on their own terms without predetermined limits. They possess the ability to adapt, grow, & evolve to face new circumstances, without necessarily being built to view each situation a specific way. Basically, this omnic was supposed to have unlimited potential.
Unfortunately, it sought to more destructive means and went rogue (and became the hooded omnic from Storm Rising). This clip is Liao screaming to other people in the laboratory when that omnic went coco bananas. She barely escapes with her life and gives it one final try before scrumming to her inguries.
This final AI was a new attempt at the 2 previous "failures", an Echo if you will.
peak escarp
I don't think she made Zenyatta
I think Zenyatta was just an ordinary production omnic who "heard the music" and went in search of answers
timid eagle
Eh, I'm just spit balling until we get an official reveal later this week, if rumours are to go by.
peak escarp
Zenyatta isn't that special
timid eagle
Again, just speculating.
peak escarp
you should try to stay within things we know
if we make too many assumptions, it's easy to jump to conclusions
safe trout
I do like the rest of your theory besides the zen part
timid eagle
Well, from what's been revealed, it's obvious that Mina Liao is the Doctor Light to Echo's Mega Man X.
peak escarp
yes
well
we're still assuming that
although I'd be very surprised if Echo isn't involved somehow
placid fulcrum
oh, one more thing in support of liao made anubis theory - junkrat's line blaming overwatch being too friendly to the omnics on its downfall
placid fulcrum
if anubis was created by liao in order to swnd a good message about the omnics, that would definitely backfire and be mocked by omnic-haters
safe trout
And junk rat is very anti omnic
placid fulcrum
it isn't just that featherss. there's a ton of other evidence
I'm just adding to it
the primary and strongest evidence is this line by ana
safe trout
I think that’s in reference to the shut down of the Anubis project
placid fulcrum
so why would ana blame egypt's anubis-related problems on overwatch, unless overwatch created anubis in the first place?
peak escarp
I think that's what Ana means by responsible
safe trout
Cuz overwatch shut Anubis down
peak escarp
Overwatch was responsible for shutting down Anubis and ruining their infrastructure
placid fulcrum
considering that anubis was evil, what else could they have done?
peak escarp
was Anubis evil?
bitter leaf
asking the real questions
placid fulcrum
apparently so, seeing as helix was determined to keep him contained
teal meadow
Anubis is like a virus
placid fulcrum
well, whatever happened, I doubt overwatch just showed up ina perfectly functioning city and decided to shut down an AI for shits and giggles
safe trout
Anubis was an ever-advancing ai
Overwatch may have realized it posed a threat in the future
peak escarp
we don't know why Anubis was quarantined
teal meadow
Dunno if anyone ever saw a show called "code lyoko", the enemy of that show is literally what anubis is. A self aware virus
placid fulcrum
at the moment, the most likely explanation is that he was liao's creation gone wrong.
safe trout
Not really
placid fulcrum
yes, really
teal meadow
Liao didn't create anubis, that's for sure
placid fulcrum
for sure how?
safe trout
But I don’t think we are seeing Anubis again in the story
placid fulcrum
then it's an example of extremeyl poor writing on Chu's part
safe trout
How?
peak escarp
Ana feels responsible for tearing up Cairo's infrastructure
placid fulcrum
Checkov's Gun - if an element is introduced to the story, it should play a role in it
anubis is not
safe trout
Not everything needs to affect the story in a major way
placid fulcrum
in a well-written story, everything does
safe trout
It was just to act as a threat for a comic
placid fulcrum
again - Checkov's Gun
then the comic is pointless and might as well never have been created
safe trout
Not everything needs to be a checkov’s gun
peak escarp
the comic was to show Pharah learning to prioritize her team over the mission
and it served that function
placid fulcrum
yes, everything. that's the point of checkov's gun
lavish laurel
What's a checkov's gun?
placid fulcrum
a rule in writing
lavish laurel
Ah, just googled it.
peak escarp
it doesn't apply to everything
lavish laurel
So the extreme opposite of a MacGuffin.
placid fulcrum
Chekhov's gun is a dramatic principle that states that every element in a story must be necessary, and irrelevant elements should be removed. Elements should not appear to make "false promises" by never coming into play.
timid eagle
Yep. Basically, if it's not essential, don't include it in the narrative.
lavish laurel
Yeah, so it's also among the list of "how not to write a story".
fresh tundra
How is it nonessential? I agree with Doctor
lavish laurel
Speaking of which, I kinda try to make up some ARG again.
fresh tundra
Also, I refuse to believe that Chu just didn’t give enough of a shit about the story that he purposefully left things out
I think quite a bit of it was the result of executive meddling
lavish laurel
(I know this is more general, but anyone be interested to gimme some feedback? 👀)
fresh tundra
I think if he was given full license to do what he wanted, it would have been better
placid fulcrum
it's nonessentials because it doens't add to anything. if the story had never been written, we'd miss nothing
lavish laurel
@fresh tundra Honestly I think Chu wasn't 100% in charge.
fresh tundra
I agree
placid fulcrum
though it could be that something more was oriignally intended, but it was scrapped due to executive meddling
lavish laurel
As in, I don't wanna believe that he forced himself to... make certain characters certain things.
fresh tundra
We like to put the blame on him because he’s in the spotlight, but there’s absolutely more to it than just “he’s a bad writer that retcons everything”
lavish laurel
And that it was more of a PR move from his superiors.
fresh tundra
He doesn’t just get to do whatever he wants
peak escarp
also he doesn't retcon everything, that's just the community forgetting what is canon and what is fanon
lavish laurel
Aye, Doc. Speaking of fanon.
lavish laurel
Can I DM you an ARG prototype?
fresh tundra
The majority of the Chu hate really does seem to be people being upset when he doesn’t validate their fanon theories
lavish laurel
Like, I'm trying to make something interesting, yet not as tideous as Sombra.
fresh tundra
Like ships (yikes)
peak escarp
I'm not interested
fresh tundra
I think Soldier was a bit forced
placid fulcrum
I;ve heard that D.Va was advertised by blizzard to the starcraft fandom as a canonical starcraft player. don't know if that's treue, but if it is, then it's absolutely a retcon
fresh tundra
I don’t think Tracer was forced
fresh tundra
It feels very in character for Tracer to me
peak escarp
@placid fulcrum yes, THAT was a retcon, and Chu admitted to it
iron plume
but it was never said to be canon to the universe
fresh tundra
On another note
peak escarp
but most of the other things they complain about aren't retcons
lavish laurel
They retconned Starcraft being in the game's universe?
iron plume
regardless if that wasn't the case it should've been said much sooner
Starcraft is still in OW's universe
fresh tundra
It’s fine for Soldier because it’s assigning a heavily stereotyped role to a person who has none of the attributes of the stereotype
iron plume
and dva still played it
placid fulcrum
to be fair, we had no reason to think that the article stating that reyes hated jack due to being overlooked for his sake was false
iron plume
she just wasn't the #1 pro
lavish laurel
Oh.
peak escarp
it's not false, it's just unreliable
lavish laurel
Then who is? 
placid fulcrum
we had no reason to believe that it wasn't reliable
peak escarp
because it was written from the perspective of the public/Mercy, who don't know the truth
teal meadow
The majority of the Chu hate really does seem to be people being upset when he doesn’t validate their fanon theories
@fresh tundra i'm still waiting for him to explain who was the family reaper was spying in the christmas comic
peak escarp
most likely it was his family
safe trout
Probably his family
placid fulcrum
he's no longer working for blizzard, so he's not allowed to explain anything anymore
peak escarp
his son/daughter and their family
teal meadow
I need a confirmation for that
fresh tundra
Did I say none of it was unwarranted or that he didn’t create more plotholes than he filled?
fresh tundra
I just said that the majority of it was hate because of him not validating their theories
peak escarp
well we know Reaper had a family, and we know the family wasn't some random family (meaning they have some significance to him)
fresh tundra
From what I’ve seen
peak escarp
logical conclusion is that it's his family
teal meadow
Where they said reaper was married?
placid fulcrum
gotta wonder why they're beating around the bush rather than just confirming it if it's really that simple
teal meadow
I don't recall he ever said that
peak escarp
I didn't say married
safe trout
cuz they don’t need to confirm everything
teal meadow
You gotta have married to have a family
safe trout
Nope
fresh tundra
No
placid fulcrum
yeah, they don't need to. but they still do
peak escarp
Ana said, unconsciously running her thumb over where her
wedding ring used to be.
“At least you and Gabe managed to have families.”```Bastet, page 12
you don't need to be married to have a family
placid fulcrum
that quote is in the context of romantic relationships though
safe trout
?
teal meadow
What you do is connecting the dots and assuming thst's his family
placid fulcrum
oh please, this is blizzard. everyone is properly married, I assure you
fresh tundra
How can you “assure us”
teal meadow
But it's not a confirmation still
fresh tundra
Did you write this?
placid fulcrum
because blizzard's very careful to be proper when it comes to their characters
fresh tundra
“Proper”
Okay, let me take you back to a few controversies wherein they were not proper with their characters
I just need to say one word really
peak escarp
Tracer and Emily aren't married
placid fulcrum
so? they don't have a child together
teal meadow
Tracer and emily has no kids
peak escarp
I'd still consider Emily to be her family
fresh tundra
^
teal meadow
I know, but we're talking about blizzard
safe trout
So? Blizzard is quite progressive
fresh tundra
Assume nothing until it’s confirmed
placid fulcrum
the family reaper is stalking has a kid, so if it;s his family then he had a child with someone. most likely a spouse, because I really doubt blizzard is going to make him have a kid out of a wedlock with a loving partner just because
fresh tundra
Rule of thumb when dealing with lore
placid fulcrum
progressive? blizzard? nah
safe trout
Maybe he just had a kid with his girlfriend
teal meadow
Still, we don't know WHY he was spying them.
And that's very important about his character
safe trout
Is it tho? Like it hasn’t been brought up since
peak escarp
the motivation makes that scene read very differently
is he just being nostalgic, and checking up on his family? or is he following them with plans to kill them?
I would like to know his motivation
safe trout
I think it’s the first one
teal meadow
After all these years i can't understand if reaper is ok with his role in talon
safe trout
As much of a villain reaper is he doesn’t kill kids
placid fulcrum
would be weird for him to kill them. it's a christmas special
what could he possibly gain from this?
teal meadow
@safe trout pretty sure Talon has no reason to kill random kids
peak escarp
eliminate anyone who knows his past? idk
teal meadow
He wears a mask. And nobody knows gabriel is still alive
peak escarp
Kylo Ren killed his own father, I wouldn't put it past Reaper to kill his kid, their spouse and his grandkid
teal meadow
Beside ana soldier and mercy
peak escarp
and Moira and Doomfist and Sombra
teal meadow
Yeah, i meant threat for his identity
peak escarp
Sombra would sell him for information
teal meadow
She has no interest about reaper thou
safe trout
But others might
teal meadow
Even if he expose him to the world, reaper wont be easy to deal with
Since he can't die
grand wedge
ok so.... some VA that dub Soldier 76 has "leaked" the next teaser... few weeks ago" did you se that? ||we will have the audio of what happen after the explosionin the next teaser||
peak escarp
this is what can be heard in the background
I don't think the other audio is for a teaser though, unless they're doing an animated short
grand wedge
peak escarp
the Brazillian VA for Soldier posted a video on his Facebook in late February
grand wedge
the video have been delated
grand wedge
oh there is a tweet nice!
peak escarp
you can barely hear it in the vid, so I boosted the volume and removed the VA talking over it
limpid agate
Hmmm
Maybe another weird Origin Short
Like Sigma
Or Doomfist
Where the origins are less of a summary of the character, and more of their own art piece
peak escarp
yeah
typical "slideshow" style origin trailers just have the hero (or someone relevant, in Hammond's case) narrating over it
peak escarp
I thought Jack asking "you should join us" might be a flashback to the crisis
peak escarp
if it is for Echo, it could also give a backstory to Liao
limpid agate
For whoever it is
It should give a Liao backstory
If its Liao's creation
The art in the teaser is Nesskain's artwork as well
So hopefully that whole scene is shown off in more detail
peak escarp
always happy to see more of Nesskain's art
listening to it again, it does sound like younger Jack
not as deep
grand wedge
Well, that seems likely, since it was during Overwatch days
I hope we'll have a more precise date than 7-20 years like we think this new project is happening
peak escarp
this means if it's Echo, she could be our new youngest female hero
wait
second youngest
brazen flare
liao ssure sound slike echo
watching the mccree animation again
liao probably got into a lab accident and put herself in an omnic
peak escarp
Echo's voice changed between Reunion and Zero Hour
so if she sounds like the voice from Reunion, then it's not Echo
brazen flare
hope shes a healer, we need more healers, more variety so we can eventually have one that will appease the dps lovers
tho honestly, theres plewnty of dps friendly healers
crisp ferry
Well, if the "leak" is correct then this character will be a Support @brazen flare
grand wedge
They never teased a hero during Archives - except Sojourn in a way but she was part of the mission so it's different I guess? - I really like that they are changing their way a bit this year.
peak escarp
Sigma was revealed during Summer Games
grand wedge
Oh wait
you're right x)
But summer games are just cosmetic related - not lore related like the Archives
peak escarp
why does that make a difference?
grand wedge
good question - i suppose it doesn't
crisp ferry
The point they're trying to make is, it's pretty clever to release a hero that's important to the game's story during the only story based event ~
peak escarp
I'd argue that all heroes are important to the game's story
crisp ferry
Well yes, just to me some are more important than others.
limpid agate
All animals are equal. But some animals are more equal than others.
Heroes like Hammond, Sigma, and Ashe are not important.
gusty forge
Athena and Echo is not the same. That's my thought
peak escarp
you are correct
gusty forge
Echo is just inside a box in route 66 while cree and ashe having a "fair" 1v1
grand wedge
Don't you think - if the person on the picture is really Liao - that she seems young to have been part of the first Strike Team?
Unless this explosion happens in the early days in Overwatch... IDK, I was expecting someone older I guess - with the talk about she may have been involved with Omnica Corp...
peak escarp
it could be from the early days
we don't really know
Liao is probably around the same age as the other founders
50-60s
grand wedge
that's what I think too
gusty forge
an other animal hero
gusty forge
Lioa made Mercy V1 back but failed
restive flower
It took Blizzard 4 years to give us more info about Liao, and the first thing they do is kill her off
peak escarp
most people assumed she was dead/retconned already anyway
peak escarp
she was last mentioned in the lore 3 years ago
restive flower
her only mention in lore was 4 years ago
peak escarp
people were worried that when First Strike was cancelled, they decided to get rid of Liao too
right, 4 years ago
I keep forgetting it's 2020
The United Nations covertly brought a few of these unique minds together to form a small, nimble team, aimed at striking significant blows against omnic strongholds. Their names—Morrison, Reyes, Amari, Liao, Wilhelm, and Lindholm—have since become legendary. The world would come to know them as the founders of Overwatch.
restive flower
count by archive dates
peak escarp
I tend to count by Anniversary dates
limpid agate
Liao was expected to be dead, with a chance of being "MIA" like Ana
It could have gone either way
It seems they are going the dead route.
restive flower
we never even heard of sojourn until last year
yet she's apparently a major player in OW
limpid agate
Heard
peak escarp
we haven't seen every single member of Overwatch
peak escarp
it's natural that some might appear that have been there all along
restive flower
yeah confirming her existence, like the name drop for liao
peak escarp
Sojourn's first appearance was in Recall
limpid agate
Sojourn before Storm Rising had more appearances than Liao before 32
restive flower
u mean 2 v 1?
limpid agate
Yeah
restive flower
not great numbers either way :|
limpid agate
They're good considering Blizzard standards for NPCs
The most mentioned NPC that became a hero was Brig
peak escarp
Kimiko and Mirembe have appeared twice and they haven't been used for anything yet
limpid agate
Yes
restive flower
for like 20 s
peak escarp
she was also in Reinhardt's LNY spray
limpid agate
The next was Doomfist
Who got a map and name/weapon drops in the cinematic trailer
And then Orisa
restive flower
everyone knew DF was going to be an eventual hero from day 1
peak escarp
the devs hadn't planned to add Doomfist as a playable hero
limpid agate
Ana, Sombra, Hammond
peak escarp
they wanted him to be a mysterious antagonist
limpid agate
Who get a few drops here and there
peak escarp
but the fans loved him, so they decided to add him
limpid agate
About as many as Sojourn.
safe trout
I have a feeling sigma is gonna be important in the OW2 story
restive flower
Sombra 100% was going to be a hero before OW even launched
Sigma just screams "throwaway mini-boss"
His place in the story was shoved in
limpid agate
Ana existed only in a Soldier/Pharah backstory as gone, and as a face in some backstory
Hammond had 2 (+1 as Wrecking Ball) name drops
Sombra was a name drop on one map until the ARG
peak escarp
Sigma was a very last minute development
limpid agate
Also Sigma isnt important
peak escarp
he was created in ~3 months, iirc
restive flower
source on that number?
peak escarp
I don't remember where I heard it, but Nesskain said he was only given 4 weeks to do the art for the origin trailer (which is why it's only 4 images as opposed to the usual 6)
safe trout
Sigma is possibly the strongest hero tho, as he can literally create black holes. I could see him being a macguffin of sorts in the story
limpid agate
Post launch importance:
Important - Ana, Sombra, Doomfist, Brigitte
Half-Important - Orisa if Numbani is in OW2 Story, Moira, Baptiste
Unimportant - Orisa now, Hammond, Ashe, Sigma
peak escarp
but the story goes that they were developing a kit for Mauga, came up with a projected shield and gravity powers, and decided that that was too "smart" for Mauga
restive flower
Brig ain't important
she just stalks Rein and they made her into a hero, purely because they wanted a Paladin hero
peak escarp
so they had to come up with a new character that suited the kit, and shelved Mauga
restive flower
If they didn't want a paladin for hero 27, they would've never made Brig into a hero
limpid agate
She is important because she is a core member of Winston's Overwatch
safe trout
Hmm, I would say baptiste is also important because of the story, which made it sound like he was gonna join ow
limpid agate
She was half before Zero Hour
Now she's a main character
She's Hawkeye tier, but Hawkeye is still main cast
timid eagle
Everything about Mauga screams "I'm a psychopath who takes pleasure with causing mayhem and wonton destruction." To me, that screams more Off-Tank than Main Tank.
Though I guess he's more of a sociopath and a sadist than a psychopath.
worthy rose
We all knew he was going to be a tank
timid eagle
Less barrier and more offensive, tho.
worthy rose
No we already knew this
Sigma was initially going to be Mauga but then they realized the kit didn't fit the character so they made sigma and put mauga on the back burner
timid eagle
Which is weird, as they basically have the assets for the Heavy Assault unit from Retribution as a base to start from.
I mean, Mauga is basically that enemy unit with fabulous hair.
prisma wren
whats with the audio file???
peak escarp
the Brazil VA for Soldier was watching some teasers for Hero 32
worthy rose
It's a corrupted audio file
peak escarp
oh that one
worthy rose
It's intentionally to show distress
prisma wren
do we know who it is?
peak escarp
probably Liao
prisma wren
so we should get more teasers the next few days?
peak escarp
probably one more tomorrow, then reveal Thursday
restive flower
reveal's probably tomorrow
ever since baptiste, blizzard has been revealing heroes 1 day before putting them out on the PTR
peak escarp
Baptiste was revealed the same day he was on PTR
restive flower
no
he was revealed randomly on a monday night
he was put on the ptr the tuesday after
restive flower
except baptiste and sigma (and blizzcon heroes)
so if you really want to stretch it, ashe -> baptiste -> sigma were all revealed before they hit ptr
they hit the ptr on tuesday or thursday
shell jay
If Liao comes out on the ptr soon, as a console player, will I be able to play her on that new testing mode?
I know this isn't lore related but no one would answer me in general lol
limpid agate
Liao is extremely unlikely to be a hero
Since she is prolly dead
Hero 32 wont be in experimental
They'll be on ptr
prisma wren
was she always presumed dead?
peak escarp
either dead or retconned
prisma wren
are we guessing that the person in the audio log is liao?
peak escarp
yes
prisma wren
whenever they want too?
safe trout
Baptiste doesn’t have friends
prisma wren
also is echo coming out 20th?
we dont know whos coming out
@safe trout hes talking about mauga
formal vapor
yeh
safe trout
However a new hero is probably launching March 19th on ptr
Oh ok lol
I don’t know if that’s a friend
prisma wren
same
peak escarp
the plan was to kidnap him
prisma wren
what he said
peak escarp
we don't really know why Reyes changed his mind and shot Antonio
prisma wren
and then antonio pissed him off and the rest you know
that too
i just assume that he made an impromtu
peak escarp
but Antonio seemed to know why they were there, which told Reyes that someone tipped him off
prisma wren
moira im guessing
peak escarp
possibly
formal vapor
it would be cool if they added one where you play as talon for archives
safe trout
I think it could be fun
prisma wren
but thats hardly lore related
peak escarp
why wouldn't a Talon mission be lore related?
prisma wren
no the sugestion
safe trout
For sombra there isn’t much lore
prisma wren
sombras somehow related to the bakery i think
peak escarp
she's from Dorado, and is a frequent customer of the bakery there
formal vapor
wat bakery
prisma wren
in the short hero
peak escarp
the little girl is Alejandra
not related to Sombra
but Alejandra knew Sombra's real name, and told it to Zarya
peak escarp
that's Castillo
prisma wren
i thought so
formal vapor
does sojourn have any info?
safe trout
Yes
formal vapor
like towards her srory?
formal vapor
oh
teal meadow
Should we expect a cinematic or a 2d short?
crisp ferry
A 2D Short, like they've done in the past. I'd be surprised if they made a cinematic.
foggy notch
Did widow's husband had any sorts of combat abilities like ana's or jack's?
grand wedge
We just know that he saved Gabriel's life in Cap Town - and that he was working with Blackwatch
but he seems to be more of an intelligence guy (secret services/spy) - we don't know how exactly he saved Gabriel
grand wedge
this account compared voices of Echo and the one we heard yesterday on the teaser : https://twitter.com/Bible_Salesman/status/1240028059048108032
placid fulcrum
I like her new voice better. She sounds like she has a personality now
but I can't hear similairty between either of her two voices and liao's voice
brazen flare
i wish they would add the next charecter early
cobalt orbit
brazen flare
they should tease andsuprise relese it today
teal meadow
A teaser this early?
teal meadow
we don't know if the date is connected to her release
placid fulcrum
origin: KHRT, destination: KDMA - any ideas on what this means?
iron plume
placid fulcrum
also... march... that's the same months as Liao's log
iron plume
if we're going by ICAO codes
placid fulcrum
so, it's government bases, not helix
docid: J15
com code: OW-MLI4-J
overwatch military, I assume
iron plume
they might well be helix in the overwatchverse, although I think it was mentioned as military
but their location checks out for a train going through Arizona
placid fulcrum
security-ultraviolet. is it the highest possible?
iron plume
yes
It's not any real security code but it sounds like something that would be the highest one
visual slate
if the date is monday, that could be a release day, its the day before Blizz does server and weekly resets on the US side
placid fulcrum
well, in that case they have some shitty security if a bunch of cowboy rebels could steal it so easily
visual slate
^
iron plume
Release days are tuesday and thursday
I mean
they blew up a bridge
that's pretty hardcore as security threats go
worthy rose
i dont think echo is coming the 3/23
bc its monday
i think the origin story is coming today
and tomorrow we will have the hero in the ptr
like sigma
safe trout
Yeah that’s possible
worthy rose
the first teaser was revealed on saturday
the second in sunday
On mondey we had the origin history and 1 day later we had sigma on ptr
Monday*
brazen flare
like this teaser waas relesed extremly early so something else is happening l;ater
grand wedge
WHy using airport codes for a train? It's weird no?
iron plume
it's not that strange as they're often used to refer to a location in general
obtuse star
somebody said those are military bases?
unless you mean airport codes for military bases
worthy rose
oh hi
iron plume
I did and they are
grand wedge
Well, the Route 66 seems pretty far from Tuscon (on the actual maps)
But at least we learn that it was an convo from the US military, and not from Helix or an Old OW base.
iron plume
it doesn't have to be near tuscon, just near somewhere where a train to tuscon would go
but either way yeah
rain arrow
Introducing Echo.
An evolutionary robot programmed with a rapidly adapting artificial intelligence, Echo represents the cutting edge of technology. https://t.co/aStyP5F4Al
jade mortar
yo, im not some lore expert but what/who is nullsector
limpid agate
So aside from the Anubis stuff that popped up day 2
teal meadow
It's... "her echo"
pliant sparrow
I was right as well : )
valid terrace
Same
limpid agate
Everything I said was right about Liao and Echo.
- Liao was Omnica
- Echo was created in her image, NOT some dumb upload shit
- Echo was not randomly malfunctioning
That Omnica speculation
languid turret
200iq
limpid agate
I really like
Also a fan of these new origin short styles.
Feels like its a unique piece
Rather than some narration with picture
placid fulcrum
That monologue from liao sounds like something she said while dying
limpid agate
Yup
limpid agate
Nope
shell jay
So I don't really get the origin story, can someone explain? I know that Dr. Liao was the one who created the omnics in the Omnica Corporation but the rest I don't get
placid fulcrum
Possible
shell jay
"They're breaching the doors" So multiple attackers, so Talon is pretty possible
worthy rose
They're doesn't have to mean multiple.
placid fulcrum
There's a symbolon the wall in the left corner of the first image
Can someone identify it?
valid terrace
Also this confirms that civilian style Omnics were created pre crisis and were effected
hasty surge
it does mean the Anubis theory won't work out
shell jay
Liao and Echo seem to have the same voice actor
shell jay
Ohhh (btw I love your pfp)
split gyro
Liao is that female scientist right?
shell jay
Yes, she created Echo
split gyro
Ty
valid terrace
No
placid fulcrum
Everyone thought Widowmaker was dead
Liao might be too valuable to be killed by Talon
Maybe imprisoned/brainwashed
iron plume
oh please not again
valid terrace
I am wholly expecting that she was taken by either NS or Talon and we will learn more in the OW2 campaign
placid fulcrum
Though I think she should be dead
shell jay
Maybe they kidnapped her and when they teamed up with Null Sector she created more omnics for them, she's their supplier
placid fulcrum
If Echo has her personality and all, then having Liao be still alive would be weird
shell jay
I'm going to stick to my Null Sector theory
placid fulcrum
Doesn't really matter who it was. They most likely failed. Echo was still in Overwatch
placid fulcrum
Why not take echo with them, or destroy her?
placid fulcrum
If she was the work of her life, she woild be valuable
golden parrot
HM
opaque tundra
I really like Echo's sitting emote
golden parrot
I am thinking liao is echo
valid terrace
Technically we don’t even know if Echo was there when the attack happened
opaque tundra
I wanna know how Echo got to where she is now
iron plume
that as well
golden parrot
@opaque tundra remember echo being in payload?
valid terrace
It could be a cinematic transition rather than just showing her in the room
opaque tundra
Yeah I mean like how Echo got in the crate in the first place
valid terrace
She’s not an Omnic
shell jay
EVERYONE STOP WHAT YOU'RE DOING
valid terrace
Also she is likely held in that pick that McCree had
golden parrot
she is totally a omnic
valid terrace
Therefore they were only storing her frame
iron plume
Omnics by definition are the Omnica corporation models
valid terrace
She isn’t built from an Omnium
iron plume
Echo was created post-crisis
shell jay
Blizzard released another teaser before they released the origin story, it was a paper with details about Echo, there was a date on the paper, 3/23, possible release date?
valid terrace
We know
placid fulcrum
Liao created the omnic AI. And Echo's AI. So Liao is essentially to blame for omnics gaining sapience
valid terrace
Snowball, Echo, and Wrecking Ball are all non-Omnic robots
iron plume
Blizzard released another teaser before they released the origin story, it was a paper with details about Echo, there was a date on the paper, 3/23, possible release date?
Seems likely at this point
But could also be earlier
valid terrace
As well as Anubis but that’s an Ai
golden parrot
fine
“In Overwatch, omnic and robot are just about as interchangeable as colloquial terms,”
this tho
a thing said by devs
@valid terrace wrecking ball is a suit
not a robot
valid terrace
He has an ai
iron plume
no
placid fulcrum
Yeah, but Liao created the special AIs
golden parrot
its a suit
placid fulcrum
The self-aware AI
iron plume
wrecking ball has simple programming
valid terrace
He isn’t just a raw translator
iron plume
it's not a "raw" translator but it essentially is a translator
it's not an intelligence
valid terrace
Garvis is an ai
iron plume
Jarvis
valid terrace
Sorry
valid terrace
In this case it does
placid fulcrum
I wonder what were the relations between Liao and Torbjorn. His backstory states that he was distrustful towards the AI in the omnics to begin with
valid terrace
Wrecking Ball’s Ai is attached to the robot
iron plume
It's not a robot, it's a mech suit where AI serves as an assistant
it doesn't control it
valid terrace
Torbjörn doesn’t really like many people in general
placid fulcrum
I also wonder, in the case that Liao is presumed dead, how do her friends in overwatch feel about Echo, who seems to have a special resemblance to her
valid terrace
Not directly
golden parrot
or at least copyied it
placid fulcrum
Echo speaks of her as a separate person
valid terrace
Just programmed her to act similarly most likely
placid fulcrum
She was modeled after her, but she isn't her
valid terrace
I don’t think most of the overwatch elite were a very sentimental bunch
timid eagle
I called it. Liao a female Dr. Light and Echo is her Mega Man X!
placid fulcrum
it's what most people speculated
golden parrot
could be
valid terrace
Just like Brigitte is not Reinhardt
golden parrot
brig is reins granddaughter if I believe
placid fulcrum
Reinhardt didn't make brigitte
golden parrot
right?
valid terrace
She is Torb’s daughter
golden parrot
ah right
valid terrace
Rein is her godfather
timid eagle
My guess is Liao died during that explosion.
last inlet
Lemme word that diffwrently
valid terrace
Either that or she was taken
last inlet
What was that explosion about? Hoping we get more around Echo's release
valid terrace
That’s the big mystery atm
last inlet
I wonder if they're gonna go ptr or experimental mode
valid terrace
Why was there an explosion and what happened to Liao after
last inlet
For her
placid fulcrum
I wonder if it's really a mystery or just something to explain why liao is dead
valid terrace
ptr it seems
valid terrace
They haven’t said so
placid fulcrum
Maybe there's nothing more to it.
valid terrace
And we’ve seen comebacks from worse
I think she’ll be a surprise side character in Null Sector
timid eagle
Echo will probably be on the PTR first, before they finish up said characters cosmetic unlocks.
last inlet
Hence "not confirmed"
valid terrace
Right
last inlet
Also, on echo
That's not the same VA from Zero Hour, is it? Unless it was always the same. I can't remember if we ever knew the names
golden parrot
orisa, zen, echo,
iron plume
on the roster, 4 with echo
golden parrot
playable
iron plume
Bastion
golden parrot
ball if you want to count the suit as armour
last inlet
Eh
obtuse star
Wrecking Ball isn't an omnic
golden parrot
*suit and robot
iron plume
The hero isn't the robot
last inlet
Idk Hammond controls all of it himself
obtuse star
those are not interchangeable
last inlet
Even then
last inlet
It's just a mech suit with a voice box
iron plume
you're the only one who said omnic
iron summit
Jewvia seems butt hurt about the Echo being an upload theory, Jesus it was a theory, i don't mind i was wrong, i just think it would be an interesting native device if it was true with the human vs onmic war
valid terrace
She’s not even here
last inlet
Who
iron summit
dusty cairn
valid terrace
True
hasty surge
what's Omnica?
last inlet
Since Echo isn't an omnic
golden parrot
1 omnic
golden parrot
bastion is only omnic
valid terrace
The corporation that originally made Omnics
last inlet
Or made omnics
Zen is an omnic
Orisa is considered one too I think
Iffy on that one
valid terrace
She’s in a gray area yeah
dusty cairn
still confused about wether echo has Liao's soul or not
iron summit
i thought the was was man vs omnic, and omnics don't have souls, but is a human with the body of a robot still a human or a robot? that's the angle i was hoping they were going for
last inlet
They didn't say
So we can kinda ssume she doesn't
Because honestly, we haven't seen that yet
last inlet
They might have their own version
valid terrace
Her personality is shaped around Liao’s, there’s no cybermancy going on
last inlet
Artificial life might come across an equivalent
iron summit
human in the body of a robot
Crazy scientist with god like gravity powers
dusty cairn
will they reveal more about her further than the ingame lore stuff (voice lines , sprays etc..)
golden parrot
altho people will call her a omnic
last inlet
@golden parrot I didn't call her an omnic so
golden parrot
Orisa is considered one too I think
Iffy on that one
iron summit
I wonder if Amazon Alexa will get a Echo voice or program/skill at some point
dusty cairn
orisa is an omnic , Efi just modified her
brazen flare
that was fast
golden parrot
no
valid terrace
Yes
golden parrot
orisa is not a omnic
brazen flare
maybe she will be in ptr tday
golden parrot
the devs said no about that
brazen flare
today
dusty cairn
then what is she?
valid terrace
The OR-14s are Omnics
brazen flare
echo is an omnic
last inlet
It's iffy because she was called one before and then they decide she's not, so I'm gonna say she is kinda
valid terrace
They were destroyed and Efi rebuilt them as Orisa
brazen flare
omnics have sentience of there own
last inlet
Which I haven't even seen
brazen flare
this has already been established
last inlet
Devs say she isn't
valid terrace
As a play off of OR-15
golden parrot
how is echo a omnic
valid terrace
She isn’t
valid terrace
I don’t think he meant Echo specifically
golden parrot
2 omnics
last inlet
Well. That was fun
valid terrace
2.5
last inlet
I'm gonna need someone to bring out where devs said Orisa isn't omnic so we can put this to rest
valid terrace
Orisa’s comprised completely of Omnic code and machinery as a base, but with some extra parts bolted on
brazen flare
i always found it debatable weather orisa had the same sentience level as bastion or zenyatta
valid terrace
Whichever one was crushed by Doomfist
odd jackal
One youtuber had a theory, that Echo is that scientist (don't remember name), because she transferred her consciousness into that robot
golden parrot
risa’s model is based on the OR15 units scavenged from the scraps of Doomfist’s Numbani International Airport attack. The OR15 units themselves were created based off designs used during the Crisis that were called OR14s.
valid terrace
Same thing really, she still was the same consciousness from the Omnic approved variety
golden parrot
fine you win
blizzard says its both
Both omnic and robot are correct terms for Orisa, actually. Overwatch lead writer Michael Chu chimed in on the Blizzard forum to set the record straight. “In Overwatch, omnic and robot are just about as interchangeable as colloquial terms,” Chu wrote. “It’s the equivalent of Kleenex versus tissue paper.”
brazen flare
i just want echo to come today
last inlet
That's a weird answer to be given but I remember that
valid terrace
Yes
brazen flare
there basiclaly there own species
golden parrot
no
valid terrace
And?
brazen flare
i wouldent call them robots
golden parrot
so
valid terrace
They are though
timid eagle
Isn't Orisa's AI not exactly true free will, but it was close enough that the average person couldn't tell the difference?
golden parrot
they are all robots and omnics
last inlet
Well they're literally robots
golden parrot
huh
brazen flare
simply because that would be derogatory
golden parrot
they are all both
brazen flare
for them as a species
golden parrot
that is literally what the dev said
valid terrace
I think that’s a philosophy question for all robots @timid eagle
golden parrot
omnic and robot are just about as interchangeable as colloquial terms
iron summit
i always saw omnics are self aware/sentient robots, but never really cared enough to disagree with people due to not doing enough research myself on it
valid terrace
No
last inlet
I mean if the team is gonna say she's not an omnic, then maybe it's not as interchangeable as they say
golden parrot
with a human brain
valid terrace
You can casually refer to one as the other, that doesn’t make it correct
last inlet
Doesn't make islt accurate, sure, but it's correct enough
iron summit
maybe a robot has to be made a certain way to be classified an omnic?
golden parrot
omnic is slang
valid terrace
It’s like calling a Japanese man Chinese, everyone knows what you mean, but that doesn’t make it right
last inlet
Except that's different
golden parrot
its a slang word
valid terrace
How is that different?
golden parrot
like how natives are called indians
valid terrace
Yes
valid terrace
Echo was not made in an Omnium, calling her an Omnic probably wouldn’t make her feel great, but she’ll know what you mean
It’s basically the same
golden parrot
devs agree
iron summit
so whether or not Omnium was used in the creation decides if they're omnic?
last inlet
So what are you arguing here
iron summit
this is what i meant by i didn't do enough research
last inlet
That's the technicality
valid terrace
Outside of this channel, call them what you want, but don’t use shortcuts that are objectively false in the lore channel
golden parrot
its just a slang word
last inlet
What are you even saying
last inlet
According to the former head writer of the series, this is just what they do in that world
valid terrace
Calling Echo an Omnic, when she isn’t one, simply because most of the robots are Omnic, is a shortcut
iron summit
i'm guilty of referring to vacuums as hoovers somtimes, though technically hoover is a brand of vacuums
last inlet
It's a colloquialism
last inlet
One that no one cares about
valid terrace
As I said, that’s fine anywhere but here, where every little detail comes into focus
valid terrace
If Jewvia or Doc were here they would back me up
last inlet
Doc was here
peak escarp
hello
valid terrace
Hello
last inlet
See
peak escarp
what's the problem?
valid terrace
Is Echo an Omnic
peak escarp
no
last inlet
What
golden parrot
can echo be called a omnic?
last inlet
I'm not arguing that lmao
obtuse star
not yet
peak escarp
you could call her an omnic, but you'd be wrong
obtuse star
cus we know nothing about her
golden parrot
why not? the devs said that robot and omnic is inerchangeable
last inlet
That's one of the few ones the devs actually said isn't an omnic tbh
peak escarp
when Jeff introduced her at Blizzcon 2018, he very carefully did not call her an omnic
last inlet
Before that Chu said Omnic and robot are interchangeable terms
peak escarp
he called her "that awesome-looking white robot"
golden parrot
Overwatch lead writer Michael Chu chimed in on the Blizzard forum to set the record straight. “In Overwatch, omnic and robot are just about as interchangeable as colloquial terms,” Chu wrote. “It’s the equivalent of Kleenex versus tissue paper.”
last inlet
Who knows what if anything
golden parrot
^
peak escarp
in the same description, he also talked about Bars, "that cool omnic sniper"
teal meadow
Did Liao created omnics?
peak escarp
yes
last inlet
She helped anyeay
peak escarp
it's implied that she wrote their program
teal meadow
I thought omnics where a thing even before overwatch thou
last inlet
They were
peak escarp
they were
last inlet
She had a life before OW
peak escarp
no
last inlet
I guess not?
peak escarp
Nesskain
restive flower
thx
restive flower
i was expecting HD pics of echo's origin
and i got naked drawings of his biracial OCs
peak escarp
he usually takes a few days to post origin story artwork
probably has to wait for the NDA to expire
hollow barn
Can’t wait to main her
restive flower
i used the pic u posted earlier in this channel for the wiki
golden parrot
lol
brazen flare
when do they useally update the roster on the website with the new heros
i swear its before
peak escarp
usually after the hero is available on PTR
lavish laurel
Ok but what exactly happened?
Liao helped making the Omnics.
Then they went evil.
Echo was... seen as an unnecessary idea...
lavish laurel
That, too.
restive flower
If I'm willing to bet, I'd say Null Sector to tie into OW2
brazen flare
omnics gfor omnics rights
lavish laurel
Nobody knows.
restive flower
nobody knows; if i'm willing to bet, i'd say null sector
teal meadow
The omnics or people hating omnics?