The fatality is, killing her, and stuffing an oscar where her skull should be
#lore-discussion
limpid agate
hexed lotus
So you're using that as an example that overwatch isn't alone in having an awkward world of lore?
limpid agate
Im using that as an example for why PvP freedom doesnt dictate an "awkward" world of lore
Its gameplay and story segregation
limpid agate
And its a good thing that most character based PvP games do
The ones that don't are like, Rainbow Six Siege
Where they say that all hte missions are just combat training operations
Which is why its 5 R6 operators vs 5 R6 operators
That, and Tom Clancy's dying wish was to never let Terrorists be playable in the games based on his books
So if you want PvP in a Tom Clancy game, it needs to be non-terrorist vs non-terrorist
People have tried to make a similar theory in OW. "Its all Winston's Recall simulations"
But that falls flat when Winston doesnt know most of these people exist
The simpler answer is: Its not canon.
Just like Johnny horribly murdering his daughter
peak escarp
it's like playing with action figures
iron plume
i mean
it’s the closest approximation but doesn’t really hold up for the same reasons as simulation
why would there be a Sigma action figure
placid fulcrum
omg guys
I found something
blackwatch reyes skin's description states that it's unlocked by purchasing "overwatch: origins"
peak escarp
finally some acknowledgement of the ALF and Egypt's elite snipers
placid fulcrum
is that the new title of ow2?
peak escarp
Origins Edition is the version with the origin skins
placid fulcrum
awwwww
peak escarp
Blackwatch Reyes, Commander Morrison, etc
placid fulcrum
I was so excited there for a moment....
but hey, now we see what young roadhog looked like!
peak escarp
"young"
placid fulcrum
what? he was in his 20s
peak escarp
he would be around 25 when the ALF was active
young is relative
also they put Jetpack cat into the game
limpid agate
I like the Ana lore blurb most
limpid agate
We learned how Egypt reacted to the crisis, cybernetic enhancements
And Ana was an elite sniper of their forces
So we know when she got the eye and why as well
noble shuttle
the ow lore is bad, its gotten progressively better somewhat ever since doomfist came out
but the base lore, and the beginning of it
atrocious
just straight up dumb scenarios that make no sense
noble shuttle
tbh
even the beginning of domfist is absolutely tarded
why is a weapon that can level skyscrapers
limpid agate
Dont play around the word filter
noble shuttle
put in a somewhat thick glass in a low-protection museum
limpid agate
It can't level skyscrapers
noble shuttle
ok good to know
limpid agate
It was an 8 year old saying it could
noble shuttle
its still clearly a very limited-find and strong weapon with obvious indication that whoever had it wants it back
noble shuttle
the og characters also don't feel like they have any depth, they're very flashy and easy to remember
but you said it very well
they feel like a comic book
noble shuttle
same
noble shuttle
but its also why i think it can't have a well made storyline
mk is similar
they really tried to make their trash storyline into something serious in mk11
but the only times the mk storyline is good
limpid agate
MK9 was a good story until Sindel
noble shuttle
is when they make it so bad that its good like the first movie
lmao sindel
killing half the cast
in under a minute
had to replay to see what did she even do to kill kabal
limpid agate
She punched him
OW lore is kinda poor
But it's enjoyable enough
I'm looking forwards to OW2
noble shuttle
yeah just wanted the characters to have real depth at least in their voice acting
instead of being almost full fan service
limpid agate
They make the attempt
Sometimes it works -> Dragons, Last Bastion, Rise and Shine
Sometimes it flops -> Recall, Hero, Shooting Star
noble shuttle
recall was the one where winston drops the corniest line in ow cinematic history?
"im not a monkey, im a SCIENTIST"
placid fulcrum
do you guys think it's a coincidence that Chu announced his departure on the day archives event dropped?
peak escarp
he announced it yesterday
placid fulcrum
still a curious timing
especially since I've seen people point out that archives event usually starts later
peak escarp
maybe they wanted to give more time between Archives and Anniversary
and since they don't have a hero release in March, they can do that now
worthy rose
DIE, DIE, DIE!!!
livid elbow
I would say the Doomfist Gauntlet could be at that level from some of the other showings to make a comparison to it
also I am betting the Netflix Series will flush out any lack of lore there was in the first game to compensate for it
peak escarp
wrong channel
oak kestrel
ok
shell jay
So I was playing Storm Rising and saw that omnic atthe end and I still don't know who that is
iron plume
It's Maximillien
The money guy of Talon and an owner of a Monte-Carlo casino
he shows up in Masquerade
!!lorecomics
twilit nacelleBOT
Comics:
Train Hopper: https://bit.ly/2vaOY0I
Dragon Slayer: https://bit.ly/2GpRZRk
Going Legit: https://bit.ly/2InZUkm
A Better World: https://bit.ly/2DeJGpK
Mission Statement: https://bit.ly/2UFLC5o
Destroyer: https://bit.ly/2XcYZ9G
Legacy: https://bit.ly/2DgM1jQ
Old Soldiers: https://bit.ly/2KLILTV
Junkenstein: https://bit.ly/2Is3WZ4
Reflections: https://bit.ly/2IoZQkr
Binary: https://bit.ly/2IzNvJy
Uprising: https://bit.ly/2UCymhE
Masquerade: https://bit.ly/2IzNTI0
Wasted Land: https://bit.ly/2DeKB9G
Searching: https://bit.ly/2Gh3jy6
Retribution: https://bit.ly/2XePmHG
Mini-Comics:
Return of Junkenstein: https://bit.ly/2Gqp7Z8
Yeti Hunt: https://bit.ly/2VPmxRI
peak escarp
unless you mean the one at the very end
we don't know who he is yet
except that he's connected to Null Sector
peak escarp
he's likely to be important during OW2
limpid agate
!!wiki Unnamed_Omnic
twilit nacelleBOT
For more information about the game, please refer to the wiki: https://overwatch.gamepedia.com/Unnamed_Omnic
zenith prawn
So does the new Pharah spray cannonize the F-14 Tomcat?
zenith prawn
Yes but an F-14 (or perhaps one of the proposed upgraded versions) apparently is airworthy in the same time frame as Pharah.
fervent kite
Is there a reason for the spawn of most control maps being the same jets?
limpid agate
@fervent kite That is Tracer's Orca dropship.
peak escarp
it's how they get to missions
limpid agate
The reason is that they chose those to be parallel spawn rooms
For KotH maps
They dropped that idea for Oasis and Busan
As well as the KotH remakes
fervent kite
That explains a lot, thanks
shell jay
My theory is that it's Null Sector's leader maybe? It's a dumb idea.
limpid agate
It helps that it was confirmed he is confirmed Null Sector
peak escarp
we already knew there wouldn't be a new mission
Jeff said so at Blizzcon
the challenges are a nice surprise however
devout sable
yeah, I wasn't really keeping track of OW stuff lately 😅
zenith prawn
Are the changes to the missions just additional dialogue?
timid eagle
It's interesting to see what Hog looked like during his days as a freedom fighter.
hollow hatch
^
nova tundra
Was it actually confirmed Symmetra was autistic?
slow talon
So when will Liao be talked about again? Now that Michael is out, do you think that means Liao's chances of becoming playable is low?
fresh tundra
@nova tundra Yes, in the mini comic “A Better World”
nova tundra
thanks!
fresh tundra
You can find it in pinned messages
Liao’s chances are probably close to nonexistent, everything about him screams “filler character”
shell jay
I'm honestly worried for overwatch's story now that Chu is gone
chilly peak
it's not like OW team has no lead writer
remote karma
i saw some sort of easter egg
u guys know in the uprising or whatever one it was that there was a commander speaking??
she isnt in game
but in ow 2 they made her a hero...
hollow hatch
talking about sojourn from storm rising?
fresh tundra
Michael Chu was not Overwatch’s only lead writer, Alyssa Wong is still there
Additionally, it sounds like the majority of the writing for Overwatch 2 was completed upon his departure
I’m a bit sad about it but I don’t think it’ll be a problem
worthy rose
I'm not as sad
Chu was great at world building but we don't know how much of the writing was him
He could have been like george lucas and just be great at world building and nothing
Where did you get the idea that the UN is funding Helix?
I'm looking at it and the direct source for it and the direct source for it isn't a proper link
@limpid agate Is this right? Link 5 for what he's talking about isn't about helix but about horizon lunar colony
Okay gotcha! So what were you talking about before this
PMC?
golden prism
hey wsp guys what are yall talking about?
worthy rose
I thought they were a private security firm
That was just like
hired by the UN to fill the vaccum that was left behind from Overwatch
Overwatch was a peace keeping organization that ranged from military jobs to bringing in people
With Overwatch gone you go to the number two smaller firm
that was much too small to replace Overwatch
and because they were too small to deal with the events world wide, they asked the UN for more funding
worthy rose
Overwatch wasn't JUST an anti-terrorist group
golden prism
^
worthy rose
they were a world peace keeping organization. They did everything
from making advancements in science, to providing military type intervention, to a lot of other stuff. They were literally all about making the world a better place in every way they could
It's part of the reason why Mercy joined in the first place
There's a lot that happened leading to Overwatch's downfall
Political meddling, Talon messing up their headquarters, some of their more prominent members dying, internal betrayals, etc...
golden prism
wait the beggining of their downfall was with reyes incident in dorado right?
worthy rose
When Ana and Gerard died, it took a blow to OW's credibility and Jack and Gabe dying were the final straws that broke the camel's back
Yes and No
Also that wasn't Dorado
that was Rialto
golden prism
ohh my bad
worthy rose
Dorado is in Mexico
golden prism
idk a lot abt it my bad
worthy rose
It's cool dude! We all make mistakes
but yea
Basically the world didn't know Overwatch had a black ops division that assassinated, killed, or did all the shady stuff that Overwatch couldn't do in the public eye
worthy rose
Maybe you see a dictator coming on the rise and is funding his own pockets while loading up others... Maybe idk he disappears the next day and no one knows how or why
golden prism
yes, blackwatch does it in secret
worthy rose
But it sort of was the downfall
We know that there were traitors in the overwatch organization
and that Talon was trying their best to sway people away from Overwatch
They had figures in high political places as well as a few overwatch operatives under their belt at that time
golden prism
hey if there is soldier 76 and soldier 26 (reaper) what happened to the rest?
did they die?
worthy rose
We don't know
golden prism
or did they hide their death and tried living a normal life in secret?
worthy rose
We also don't know if those actually are reflective of the actual number of soldiers
The rest may have died
cause omnic crisis and all
Or they could have simply retired
golden prism
true, i forgot abt that
worthy rose
or don't exist at all
golden prism
wym dont exist?
worthy rose
Soldier 76 was chosen/ made as a name to represent America because America was founded iirc in 1776
So it could be just soldiers choosing their own numbers
and Soldier 24 was made because 76 + 24 = 100. It's a symmetry if any. It's just a hypothetical
More than likely the rest of the super soldiers either kept defending America, Died and or retired
They are like
really really old now
golden prism
yes true thats a possibility
when winston bringed overwatch back what happened next?
worthy rose
Some answered the call, some chose not to, some used his call to betray overwatch
Tracer, Genji, Brig, Rein, and Mercy answered the Call
McCree chose not to answer the call
And we know from the baptiste story that there was a traitor who got winston's message and immediately sold them under the river
golden prism
what about mei?
worthy rose
Soldier 76 and Ana chose not to answer
Mei did answer the call but I just forgot about her
golden prism
ohh
worthy rose
Which is a bit odd to me because she was never a field agent
golden prism
yeah she was more like a scientist
thorn ibex
How did Bap get Winston's call?
teal meadow
He didn't
thorn ibex
Was he in Overwatch?
worthy rose
Bap wasn't informed. There were rumors of winston's message being sent out in sort of the dark web or something
I'm assuming people caught wind and found it and through the medical center Bap was working with at the time, he heard about it and then made it his mission to tell Mercy that people were after her head.
Also Baptiste wasn't a part of Overwatch
peak escarp
he saw Winston's recall when he went to strongarm Sainclair - Sainclair recieved it, and tried to sell it to Talon
he only made plans to tell Mercy after he saw her face in the agent locations file
peak escarp
I’m just going to pick up this data pad and show you what’s on it.” He reached slowly for the data pad lying on
the desk.
Baptiste kept his gun trained on Sainclair, tracking his movements. Sainclair glanced at the revolver once,
but he didn’t try to grab it from Nguyen. Instead, he activated the data pad and tapped on a file. A golden
hologram of the earth popped up, rotating gently in the air. Then, a series of bright points of light began to
glitter across the globe. As the earth turned, photo portraits popped up over the points of light.
No, Baptiste realized. Not portraits. Those were dossiers.
An unfamiliar voice came online. “Agents, Overwatch needs you. The world needs us now, more than ever.
Are you with me?”
“I got this message three days ago,” Sainclair said. The hologram painted his face in golden light. “It’s a
recall sent to every former Overwatch agent. Someone’s trying to get the organization back together.”```I must know is Reaper in Overwatch 2
You mean the game
or the organization
The game
yes he will very likely will be
either as a playable character or an enemy
likely both
Nice
sullen marsh
what happened to that zen lore that was gonna be coming soon?
timid eagle
I'm simply taking a guess, but was it clarified that it's just Overwatch 2.0 that will be the focus on the campaign, or will we get playable Talon missions?
sullen marsh
i dont think so
peak escarp
it will probably be Overwatch missions only
worthy rose
There may be Talon missions
Doom is big on pushing humanity to the brink
Should the omnic crisis actually threaten and kill all life
I think he'd step in or the omnic leader of null sector basically betrays him and Talon leading to what would be the Talon missions
just speculation
lament prawn
i dont see why that wont be a thing (unless there's already evidence that it wont)
they could fight helix as we've discussed, and any factions they might introduce with the game
and there's already enough demand through just archives to play as talon, imagine how much that will multiply when the game drops
limpid agate
@sullen marsh Zen is in India in Overwatch 2.
We don't know why yet
But we have seen that
@timid eagle Probably not at launch
But certainly post-launch
valid terrace
The most obvious Talon Vs NS I can see is NS making peace with Overwatch and Talon going and cleaning them up
Either to cover themselves or to spur more conflict
Or maybe NS getting too big for their britches and taking on Talon directly
valid terrace
Right
worthy rose
baptiste was a part of talon
but he left after some mission were mauga, his partner, went on some massive rampage
he was friends with sombra and she still checks up on him
peak escarp
yep
dapper thicket
Anyone able to translate Pharah’s dog tags in her Aviator skin?
peak escarp
opaque tundra
yes ive been waiting 4 years to learn pharah's blood tyep
worthy rose
Do you guys think that Overwatch 2 will have a Talon Mission Campaign where you play as the Bad Guys instead of Overwatch?
opaque tundra
probably not from what we've seen in the past
limpid agate
I think it will
Maybe not at launch
But I think it certainly will
What we have seen in the past was explicitly Overwatch Archives
worthy rose
Cool. I hope we play as Widowmaker, Reaper, Doomfist, Sombra, and etc in the Talon Mission Campaign.
valid star
so this archive gamemode was a peek into overwatch 2?
valid star
yeah
limpid agate
That's a great way to add replayability
valid star
the cliff hanger at the end of the third archive though
limpid agate
That was setting up OW2
peak escarp
I can totally see this being what Hero Missions are like
adding mutators that change daily/weekly will add tons of replayability
gusty glade
Yep and all maps will be available to play in hero missions
worthy rose
i hope u can play as talon
or the netral guys like baptiste and dva, deadlock gang etc
limpid agate
There aren't enough heroes for some of those
foggy notch
Omnic crisis was before storm rising?
iron plume
If you mean the one shown in Paris, no
placid fulcrum
A long long time before
iron plume
the original omnic crisis was several decades before
the "new" omnic crisis, which is what OW2 is about, is in 'present day'
foggy notch
Lets put it this way, uprising was before storm rising?
placid fulcrum
Yes
foggy notch
Yea I meant that
So its possible that "omnic crisis" is done by the cooperation of Talon and that omnic at the end of the storm rising?
iron plume
the second one, yes
there's been a few hints towards it
foggy notch
Tnx
visual steeple
Guys is there no new lore mission this year?
teal meadow
no
visual steeple
That's really sad
peak escarp
we knew there wouldn't be
spiral yarrow
Still sad though
frosty elbow
I’m waiting on OW2 for some lore dump. Also I heard there will be a new Orisa story (like the ones with Ana and mercy where it’s one chapter)
lament prawn
its gonna be a full novel
peak escarp
yeah
it's called The Hero of Numbani, and it comes out June 2
it covers the story of Efi winning her prize grant, witnessing Doomfist's attack on Numbani Airport, and building Orisa
worthy rose
It's the safest option for them
Orisa doesn't really play a significant role in the story
foggy notch
In retribution intro, has Genji killed others unlike the other three blackwatch crew?
teal meadow
He was showed that he killed too
valid terrace
They all kill people but the ones with guns were trying to be stealthy
Whereas a sword is safe to use without alerting anyone
foggy notch
Im sure Cree hasnt killed that guard with a punch to his face
I wanna see if Genji is senseless and emotionless at tha period of time of his life or not. Does he feel remorse or not?
peak escarp
they definitely used lethal force to break into Antonio's office
foggy notch
But as u could see reyes and Cree took one compared to Genji who had taken many
peak escarp
so?
golden prism
hai!
foggy notch
So Genji might have less remorse compared to others, I mean is he mentally broken? Psychologically speaking
peak escarp
we don't really know what his mental state is in regards to killing
we just know he's got body dysphoria
pliant sparrow
Does he still have it?
worthy rose
What happens if i sync my blizzard account to my xbox? Will i lose all my data?
limpid agate
No
lofty cosmos
So, someone is telling me that gency is canon
Could someone link me to proof? I'm a pretty new player and I'm only just getting into the lore
peak escarp
it's ambiguous
they have a lot of interactions in the game and in the lore
but it hasn't been confirmed either way
limpid agate
@lofty cosmos It's mostly just teasers
Voice line interactions for seeing each other die, Valentine's, White Day, flirty interactions in Storm Rising, and other hints from Reflections and Valkyrie
lofty cosmos
Hmm
limpid agate
If there are any canon inter hero ships
It will be that one
Unless of course they do something like create a couple
Like Xayah/the other guy from League of Legends
Or is Xayah the dude?
limpid agate
@sterile kiln The only canon relationships are:
Tracer/Emily (Dating for 6+ years)
Torb/Ingrid (Married for 23+ years)
Widow/Gerard (Married, Widowed 8-7 years ago)
Ana/Sam (Married, Widowed 6 years ago)
Jack/Vincent (Dating, broke up ~30 years ago)
There is also heavy teasing for Genji/Mercy, and Reaper has an unnamed spouse (Widowed), presumed a wife.
sterile kiln
👍
limpid agate
There are other relationships with NPCs, but they're not important. Only ones I can think of off the top of my head is Guillermo Portero and his partner Miguel, and the interracial omnic/human couple from alive.
And obviously hero parents that get 0 screen time, like Mercy's dead parents, Ashe's neglectful parents, Sombra's dead parents, Sojiro Shimada, Lucio's dad, etc.
lofty cosmos
Thank you
limpid agate
Storm Rising
Which was six years ago
They were dating
Yes
Sojourn: Depending on how things turn out, I might be able to swing you all a few days leave before you need to report back to base.
Tracer: How's that for motivation!
She says it after you leave the distillery, and see the beach
In payload phase
👍
peak escarp
Recall is 5 years after the Swiss base blew up
Tracer was 19 during Uprising, 20 during Storm Rising and is 26 now
the Swiss base explosion was a year after Storm Rising
peak escarp
there's a year between each Archives mission
Retribution 8 years ago
Uprising 7 years ago
Storm Rising 6 years ago
peak escarp
you can join the RAF when you're 16 1/2
yeah
she would need parental consent
but she could have been a pilot for 2-3 years before being recruited to Overwatch
she describes herself as a "hot-shot pilot"
so she was probably a prodigy
Overwatch has plenty of those
grand wedge
I thought that Soldier « died »6 years ago in the explosion? Did that changed ? So like the explosion happened few weeks after SR, most likely after Doomfist was arrested ? We had a talk on the forums about that
peak escarp
oh right
the Swiss base explosion was the same year as Storm Rising
could have been a few weeks or a few months
we don't know the exact timeline of the last years of Overwatch
grand wedge
Yeah, besides the « x years ago » the timeline is so messy 😦
peak escarp
we can at least put things in order
Legacy probably happens before Storm Rising because Ana doesn't appear
grand wedge
Yeah
peak escarp
and Storm Rising happens 3 weeks before Doomfist's arrest
and all of those have to happen before the Swiss base explosion
grand wedge
I wonder about Rein retirement. Because he wasn’t there during Legacy right?
peak escarp
nope
grand wedge
So we don’t know if it was before or after Ana’s death
I think it’s after even if he was not it the Poland mission. Because in SR they are talking about Rein retirement and not Ana’s death at all
foggy notch
I 100% agree with that "x year ago" part
peak escarp
another thing most people forget/don't know
Overwatch wasn't actually shut down until the year after the Swiss base explosion
limpid agate
Storm Rising was before the Swiss HQ explosion
Winston: What do you think will happen if we can't get Max?
Tracer: They've been threatening to reassign the entire operation.
Mercy: Morrison and Reyes have been arguing about it quite a bit lately.
Winston: What about the Strike Team?
Tracer: Might be the end of the line for us, too.
Winston: But we're only just getting started.
Sojourn: The commander believes in you. Just deliver results, and he'll have all the ammunition he needs to keep things going.
Tracer: I guess it's up to us, then.
Mercy: Is Commander Morrison actually thinking about sending Overwatch?
Sojourn: I'm sure he'll take your recommendations into consideration.
Mercy: In that case, I'll try to restrain my optimism.
we figured that much, we just don't know how long before
both Storm Rising and the explosion are said to happen 6 years ago, but we don't know when each of those happened in that year
hurricanes tend to happen most frequently between August and October, but global weather patterns may be different by then
grand wedge
“I’m not carrying you this time,” Ana said. “Come on, Jack. Keep up.” She dashed out of the shadows and across the street, feeling the full blast of sun above and the heat baked into the stones beneath her. Back in the shadows, she continued. “Prague was your fault. Why you ever thought Reinhardt could be stealthy is beyond me.”```
I'm wondering about this Prague mission. Some friend of mind think it's the mission that got Rein fired, but I don't feel the same about this scene. What do you guys think?Prague was probably a Crisis-era mission
grand wedge
That’s what I thought too
worthy rose
reinhardt wouldnt of got fired i dont think
why would he want to come back if they gave him the sack
timid eagle
I always assumed it was a medical reason that forced Reinhardt to be side-lined.
timid eagle
I mean, let's be honest. Given that the guy has hallucinated a biker gang to be a bunch of goblins and a fire breathing dragon, I'm wondering if his mind has a similar condition to that of American Football players that have suffered repeated head trauma.
grand wedge
Did some mission wnet wrong and someone put the blame on him? Did someone thought he was in no medical/psyshological state to stay? I hope to learn more about it in OW2 (hopefully...)
But Rein is the kind of guy that like to tell stories and tales of his adventures - that doesn't mean he has head trauma
timid eagle
In Storm Rising, Mercy and Tracer were lamenting the absence of Reinhardt, but it wasn't explained why he was benched.
Tracer definitely sounded upset. Given, like Brigitte, she looked up to the large fella during her first Overwatch mission in King's Row.
Chris Metzen himself described Reinhardt as "kinda a Don Quixote", and there have been several parallels between the two characters.
grand wedge
His mind was separated from his body being expose to the black hole
And he couldn’t hold them back together after
He had some gravity anomalies surrounding him ( iirc) - until Talon came and get him, and managed to stabilise him ( probably with his implants in his head)
iron plume
pretty much
it’s not any real world illness/disability
he doesn’t have split personality, it’s one “sigma”
but it’s like his mind is broken up
grand wedge
It’s interesting, because I can see how people in the community have identified with Sigma as someone who is struggling or dealing with mental health issues,” Chu said. “But with the idea of the character, we never intended him to be an example of someone who’s going through mental health issues. He’s really supposed to be more focused on this very specific thing that happened to him, which is that his body and his mind were literally ripped apart by the momentary exposure to a black hole.
“With other aspects of his character, he’s certainly supposed to be eccentric. The idea behind that is more just that he sees the world a little differently. We liked this idea that he had this connection to music. So, for example, the way that he thinks about the universe, gravity, and physics, is through this prism of music. From experience talking to physicists and especially theoretical physicists is that other things that aren’t literally just the equation or the mathematics have influenced the way in which they interpret things. And so that’s the direction we went with him.”
Direct quote from this interview about Sigma : https://www.polygon.com/interviews/2019/7/31/20747387
placid fulcrum
I doubt Reinhardt was fired due to health reasons. He has that exchange with Ana where she comments on him being in good form and that "this life must agree with you!". If he was in bad form 6 years earlier, why would he be in a batter form now that he's even older?
I think he was fired for political/ideological reasons
peak escarp
I think he was forced to retire because he botched a mission (possibly due to medical reasons) and they decided it was time for him to retire
placid fulcrum
Tracer comments that the Jack has been under pressure to completely disband the Strike Team, and that was soon after he was fired, since Winston talks about having trouble adjusting to Sojourn's leadership
Again - I don't think the reason is medical. Or if it is, it was just a temporary issue, makes no sense to kick him out because of it
peak escarp
could have been a momentary lapse
placid fulcrum
I think the idea of disbanding the Strike Team and the reasons for firing Reinhardt were related
Maybe he fought against it, so they knew he would never agree to be reassigned
Because, when you think about it, where could he be reassigned? He was a warrior, not an office worker. What else was there in Overwatch for him?
worthy rose
wait
didnt brigitte say
"you gave them everything, and they threw you out"
or something like that
in honour and glory
lament prawn
see with stuff like why reinhardt was fired or how mccree lost his arm, i really cant see how they'd be normal stuff like "oh just lost it in a close battle" or "yeah getting a bit too old" otherwise there's no reason to save those events for a reveal
and i doubt he was fired for charging in or something cause that would undo his arc in honor and glory
its gotta be something serious that he regrets, possibly very uncharacteristic of him
peak escarp
that's why I think it was a botched mission - maybe he did something (hallucinated like in Dragons?) and one of his teammates got injured, or they failed the mission
people do tend to speak gingerly about people with deteriorating mental health
lament prawn
could it be like, the reinhardt equivalent of the reyes-antonio thing in retribution?
he's a nice guy but there might be some overprotectiveness or angry revenge aspect to him
placid fulcrum
There are those 2 unknown Talon leaders whose fate we still don't know
The ones with names blacked out on the post-retribution notes
Maybe the Strike Team was trying to get intel from one, like from Max. But he wouldn't talk or he killed someone on the team at the time, and Reinhardt killed him in rage
peak escarp
Reinhardt doesn't seem like the type to kill someone in rage
he's all about justice and honor
placid fulcrum
All the more reason for him to feel guilty
Whatever happened it completely turned the public opinion of him after so many years of being a hero
lament prawn
not kill, but i can see how "getting justice" or "honoring someone" can go too far
placid fulcrum
I can hardly imagine this much fallout over one mistake, or a medical issue he has since recovered from
Unless he knowingly hid the issue, whatever it was, because he wanted to go personally
peak escarp
that seems likely
placid fulcrum
Was Ana still around at the time?
peak escarp
we don't know
grand wedge
That's the thing. What happened first : Ana’s death or Reinhardt retirement from OW? And the answer is that we don’t know ( but to me it seems like Ana was « killed » before Rein was forced to retire because they don’t talk about Ana’s death at all in Storm Rising)
pliant sparrow
I think he was a scapegoat for a mission that went wrong
placid fulcrum
I thi k he was a scapegoat for the unauthorized King's Row mission. But he couldn't have been kicked out right then and there, because Winston had to have been on at least one mission with him in charge.
Or maybe it wasn't just one thing that got him kicked, but a series of incidents that finally resulted in Petras losing patience and pressuring Jack to do something about him?
untold oar
i've made a table showing current & former affiliations of all characters - want ppl to double check i haven't missed anything but i can't post pictures here 
peak escarp
you can upload it to imgur and send a link
placid fulcrum
Do we know if it got good reception?
Because thete must have been consequences to carrying out a mission despite explicit orders not to do so
peak escarp
those consequences would fall on Jack, for ordering the mission
placid fulcrum
I wish we knew what they were
placid fulcrum
Because in the mission where Ana got shot, there's Jack fighting in the front lines, but no Reinhardt
peak escarp
maybe he couldn't send a mission, so he had to go himself?
placid fulcrum
I wish the timeline of events was a little clearer
peak escarp
yeah
foggy notch
Two questions
- at the end of the retribution mission, theres maximilien, doomfist and another guy who is just like doomfist. Who is he?
- does anyone know what the symbol of genji's left arm blackwatch's skin mean?
Thanks in advance
peak escarp
we dont know who the other omnic at the end of Storm Rising is (people call him Predator or MOE or Null Hector), but we know he will be important in OW2
grand wedge
The guy is our Doomfist's mentor, Akinjide Ngumi - he was Doomfist before our actual Doomfist- whose name is Akande Ogundimu - killed him and took his place and the title of Doomfist
foggy notch
Hmmm interesting, so he killed his mentor..
And in retribution it seems like doomfist isn't as big as they picture him in storm rising. Like Antonio was the head of the "bad guys". Reaper names someone like Viali or something. Who is he?
peak escarp
between Retribution and Storm Rising, Doomfist killed his mentor and rose to be a very prominent member of Talon
Vialli was another leader of Talon
Doomfist kills him in the comic Masquerade
foggy notch
And Antonio was like their boss back then?
foggy notch
Ok. Is Talon a known organization for terrorist attacks or is that what we know and public doesn't?
peak escarp
they're publicly known as a terrorist group
foggy notch
So why dont the governments shut them down?
peak escarp
because they bribe/blackmail people
distant field
its not that easy buggy
peak escarp
Antonio had people in the government paid off
grand wedge
They were known as a mercenary group
peak escarp
so if he got arrested, they would just bust him out
distant field
why doesnt the government irl shut down ISIS then?
if it was that easy
they have powerful people under their control and its risky to make a public move against them since your life can be threatenedd
foggy notch
Cause they made Isis themselves duh
distant field
xD
foggy notch
But this doomfist killing his mentor and vialli, seems more like a tribe thingy than civilized and wise actions
peak escarp
Akande killed him to take his title and position
distant field
or talon could be more a cult than a terrorist group and overwatch isnt telling us that yet xD
tender iris
want to lead
foggy notch
I mean irl organizations have managers. Its not like a worker would rise up and kill his boss and then he would be respected as the new manager u know what I mean?
Doesn't make any sense to me
Its like Aztec savage tribe thingys
peak escarp
but Talon is a criminal organization
gangs and criminal groups kill their own members to get ahead all the time
foggy notch
Thats reasonable
timid eagle
It's important to mention that Talon's upper echelon were impressed with Akande's (the third and playable Doomfist) aspirations to lead and inspire as a commander, along with his cunning. The second Doomfist (Akinjide), while a vital asset, was a two-bit crook that only seek monetary gain from the missions and raids he took charge of.
After the Venice Incident, this difference in aspiration would lead Akande to kill his teacher and take his place.
As far as Talon's elite were concerned, the second Doomfist was expendable.
valid terrace
(To be clear, our Doomfist is the third)
slender finch
Talon is not really a "Criminal organization". Its Just some people it radical points of view. Who tries to get money and more support through ilegal actions
lament prawn
trying to get money illegally
not criminals
although the more accurate term is terrorists
theyre not just out for money
crisp ferry
limpid agate
People often say its 2076
We dont know
Its just an arbitrary ~60 years in the future
So we usually do dates by relation to Recall, rather than say years
Its speculated that the crisis ended ~27 years ago.
Maybe later
peak escarp
various sources have different "years since" for the omnic crisis
Jack Morrison says he led Overwatch for 20 years
Rein's bio says the crisis was over 30 years ago
except for Reinhardt's bio, most sources agree that the crisis started 30 years ago (present being ~60 years in the future from us, so around 2070-something)
fading coyote
reinhardt die in OW2?
an abilities of Brigitte says godfather's legacy
it's the old shield replaced by reinhardt's shield
peak escarp
those are fake
limpid agate
@fading coyote That leak is fake
The only "real" rumour
Is the rumour that hero 32 is revealed on March 19th/20th
And its still a rumour
fading coyote
ok tnx
prisma wren
what leak?
fading coyote
The ablilities of brigg, one of those are the jet pack cat
But it's fake
limpid agate
There have been lots of fake leaks
prisma wren
we will get another hero before ow2 correct?
limpid agate
Yes
Most likely within the next couple months
Rumoured to be later this week on PTR
fading coyote
The new hero maybe is true, archives arrives too ealry
Ends archives event, revealed de new hero to test and strart the aniversary event
limpid agate
Anniversary is May
placid fulcrum
You guys also said Mardi Gras Ashe was fake, and it wasn't. What makes you think this one is fake?
Aside from the jetpack cat being a ridiculous ability, that is. Still, Pandaren used to be a joke in WoW community and when Mists of Pandaria was announced, a lot of people thought it was an April's Fool's joke by Blizzard, and it wasn't. So I can totally see them going with Jetpack Cat as well.
Oh wait, forget it
limpid agate
I dont remember why I said it was fake, but I remember retracting that before it came out
I said the same thing of the Hero 32 March 19th release
I said it was fake at first
placid fulcrum
That "internal test" on the side of Moira's screen was obviously copypasted
limpid agate
But retracted it with a further look/leaks/etc
The Brig one was straight up pathetic though
placid fulcrum
They literally flipped the text in photoshop
Disappointed, but happy that Rein won't die. I like him.
peak escarp
the grammar and punctuation are a mess
it was clearly written by a non-English speaker
placid fulcrum
I saw someone point out that the "leak" refers to Brig's flail as "mangual" which is a portugese name for it
worthy rose
well we got a genetically-engineered hamster so.
timid eagle
Yeah, it was already confirmed that her chonky kitty is a Norwegian Forest Cat, and that bread can grow to be as large as the one in the emote.
foggy notch
And whats that thing in between its ears?
topaz lynx
Can someone answer me where the omnics came from like in the reinhard cinematic the orisas just fall from the sky
grand wedge
Fell from dropships - just like sending soldier with parachutes - or droping bombs on a battle field?
topaz lynx
@grand wedge Ye but who did it like maybe there is bad guy in the story that like did the omnics fight?
grand wedge
The omnics came from the Omniums - factories that builds them - before the Crisis, those factories got shut down and reopened few years after without the men knowing - and started a war against humanity.
You have a glimps on the omniums and the begining of the crisis on this article : http://bit.ly/2f9TPq4
and on this one I think : http://bit.ly/1TAWebT
frosty shell
As for the date when the Crisis ended, it may have happened at different times in different places
Given that some Omniums must've fallen before others did
rain arrow
worthy rose
https://twitter.com/PlayOverwatch/status/1239597502887673867?s=20 Teaser for next hero
peak escarp
I feel so vindicated
worthy rose
lul
worthy rose
This explains why Liao left Overwatch, though.
limpid temple
new hero is talon?
worthy rose
Ex-Overwatch founder
limpid temple
wait so this dr. mina liao will be our new hero?
it feels like he's creating something
worthy rose
Probably a she, and this is >6 years ago because it refers to Commander Morrison.
peak escarp
Mina is a feminine name
worthy rose
I was thinking the Anubis AI, but Echo also makes sense.
Makes more sense, now that I think about it.
fresh tundra
Okay so
To the person I told that we would never see Liao ever again: I apologize
I was literally proven wrong in like a day
peak escarp
don't worry, for a while it did look like she wasn't going to be seen again
white cobalt
all we had from Liao was the blog, and that is
peak escarp
Liao hasn't been mentioned officially since 2015
she was mentioned a few months ago when someone asked Chu if she was still relevant, and he said we'd be seeing her in the future
white cobalt
The other speculation was the girl from First Strike comic https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/648377452657115144/689161451608604742/Overwatch_First_Strike_Front_Cover_Art.png
peak escarp
Liao is probably her
limpid agate
It will probably be an Echo hero 32.
The Athena prototype has been deemed a success, so much so that Jack's finally agreed to authorize my new project
obtuse perch
ye
they would probs try to launh her with the aniversary event
or atleast b4 that
obtuse perch
then it is b4 that
peak escarp
and this teaser makes that seem very likely
fresh tundra
I hope so
obtuse perch
but it will probs ruin the balance -_-
fresh tundra
What role do you think the new hero will fill?
south ether
whas good bois
fresh tundra
I heard rumors it was.
obtuse perch
lets wait and see tho
limpid agate
If it is Echo, support.
worthy rose
im thinking Athena/echo will be coming March 23rd because the short "recall" was released on Mar 23rd
limpid agate
Echo was teased to be support
Athena/echo
It won't be Athena
Athena has no physical form
And this e-mail is old
worthy rose
Athena can't be echo?
limpid agate
The Athena prototype has been deemed a success, so much so that Jack's finally agreed to authorize my new project
This is the same as the Efi teaser.
Speaking of which, do you have any plans for what you're going to do with your grant? New computer? College tuition?
Oh… I have an idea…
We know Athena isn't Echo
They told us that
Over a year ago
fresh tundra
It says March XX
peak escarp
March 23 is a monday
hero releases have been on Tuesdays/Thursdays
so tomorrow or the 19th is more likely
limpid agate
It will be March 19th at this rate
onyx marsh
who is athena?
south ether
so athena or echo is most likely to be a new hero
onyx marsh
ohhhh
onyx marsh
oh ok
south ether
And echo was teased in ashes intro cinematic
limpid agate
Yes.
Based on the context, this is most likely Echo.
Its not impossible to be Liao herself, but unlikely
Its not Athena. Athena is the announcer who has no body.
onyx marsh
i thought echo was being released with overwatch 2?
south ether
got it
shell panther
We could use another support right now. Maybe the 2 support ban is a tease for echo as next hero?
limpid agate
@onyx marsh They didn't say that
onyx marsh
oh
onyx marsh
ok thanks
shell panther
Only confirmed hero coming with ow2 is sojourn I think
onyx marsh
yea
south ether
what does she have to do with the lore instead of storm rising (sojourn)
onyx marsh
i believe
south ether
y is that
fresh tundra
Especially since Jeff said we will see her before Overwatch 2
peak escarp
yes
south ether
yeah
fresh tundra
Liao is still a placeholder
We know nothing about her
Her purpose is to push the other characters’ stories
Again, I could be wrong
peak escarp
this tweet is everything we know about her
fresh tundra
I was wrong about this entirely
peak escarp
she's a founding member of Overwatch, and an AI specialist
south ether
whats the tweet say
peak escarp
we don't know her current status - she could be dead, or just retired
south ether
oh ok
limpid agate
Odds:
Echo - 90%
Liao - 9%
Unnamed third Overwatch AI - 1%
Athena with a body - 0%
limpid agate
Prolly
I just hope
She is that white haired girl from First Strike
And we see her in Echo Origins
peak escarp
probably
south ether
her*
placid fulcrum
several major reveals, nice
placid fulcrum
liao is a woman, most likely created echo after athena
"after all these years" so echo was created relatively late in overwatch timeline
also amention of nepal monks
south ether
winston probably has something to do with this
placid fulcrum
do we know when they started their work?
south ether
hol up google time
placid fulcrum
but there's more
one little detail
easy to overlook
the omnics said they "hear the music""
same music that sigma keeps blabbering about?
peak escarp
probably not the same music
limpid agate
Its just a saying
peak escarp
I think that's just a cheeky reference to Zenyatta Mondatta being the name of a Police album
south ether
according to overwatch wiki overwatch the orginization started 30 year before present
or before 2016 when the game came out
peak escarp
the story is set 60 years in the future
"30 years ago" for them is 30 years in the future for us
onyx marsh
that makes sense
peak escarp
this message looks like it's post-crisis (so <25 years ago) but before Overwatch fell (>5 years ago)
limpid agate
Its between 20-7 years ago
If someone can narrow it down further, that would be great
south ether
when did storm rising take place before or after overwatch fell
south ether
i think before since sojourn is apart of it
limpid agate
1 year before Fall
south ether
yeaj
yeah*
because then it was an active organization
but sourjourn probably retired and fell with overwatch
or died we dont know
limpid agate
She isnt dead
peak escarp
what does this have to do with Sojourn?
limpid agate
SHe's in Overwatch 2
peak escarp
this is about Liao
limpid agate
Sojourn is part of the Overwatch team in Overwatch 2
obtuse perch
they said it at blizzcon
south ether
oh
limpid agate
!!wiki Sojourn
twilit nacelleBOT
For more information about the game, please refer to the wiki: https://overwatch.gamepedia.com/Sojourn
limpid agate
This is Sojourn
limpid agate
YOu dont need to copy the references
That's spammy
Post-Overwatch
Sojourn is recalled by Winston
After Overwatch's disbandment, Sojourn laid low in Canada```This says that
limpid agate
Sojourn - Part of Overwatch
Overwatch - Shuts down
Sojourn - Keeps a low profile afterwards in Canada
south ether
after the omnic crisis
limpid agate
It says nothing about her retiring early or staying until the end.
No
What
The Omnic Crisis was 30 years ago
Overwatch shut down 5 years ago
Sojourn had nothing to do with the Omnic Crisis
south ether
ok
onyx marsh
i think he's tryna talk about storm rising
limpid agate
Storm Rising was still 20 years after the Omnic Crisis
onyx marsh
sorry, but what's the omnic crisis? i'm new to overwatch
south ether
bruh
limpid agate
!!wiki Omnic_Crisis
twilit nacelleBOT
For more information about the game, please refer to the wiki: https://overwatch.gamepedia.com/Omnic_Crisis
peak escarp
south ether
oh sick
peak escarp
this summarizes everything pretty nicely
onyx marsh
thanks guys
placid fulcrum
this log has to be before Mondatta came to London
Laio would've mentioned him rather than some unnamed omnics in nepal
also, notice one more thing
lieo builds robots
if she's the girl on the cover, then the robot next to her is likely her creation
peak escarp
Liao makes artificial intelligence
south ether
yeah true
peak escarp
someone else probably builds the bodies
placid fulcrum
the robot which seems to be connected to the "conspiracy" according to Sombra's diagram
south ether
btw sry earilier i mistakened liao for sojourn
limpid agate
Liao makes AI, not bodies. The robot next to her on First Strike is an Omnic
placid fulcrum
if she made echo, then she makes robots
teal meadow
Are there any chances liao died?
limpid agate
Who said that she made Echo's body
south ether
no
limpid agate
Mercy made the biotic tech
teal meadow
That looks like an old report
south ether
liao is alive
limpid agate
She didn't make the tools that use it
placid fulcrum
ok, let me rephrase: liao may have created the Ai in the robot next to her on the cover
limpid agate
@teal meadow Its possible
That report was made 7-20 years ago
Some time in that range
teal meadow
Exactly.
Everything could have happened
If it's Echo, we still need a reason why she was inside that capsule in a train
limpid agate
She's property
onyx marsh
facts
limpid agate
Overwatch was shut down, property was repossessed.
south ether
mabye she was being transported for a bounty or something
limpid agate
See: Experimental Weapon Stolen: http://bit.ly/2fMrKsj
teal meadow
But why they were moving it somewhere?
south ether
mabye a bounty?
peak escarp
not a bounty
limpid agate
If liao dies, echo is no longer her property
If Echo is property
She is Overwatch property
Not Liao's
peak escarp
Ashe didn't know what she was
south ether
repossessed*
south ether
no way that weapons and echo were on the same train coincidentally
ashe had to have something with her
peak escarp
the train was likely transporting Overwatch weapons/property
peak escarp
Echo is Overwatch property
limpid agate
Its implied McCree tipped her off
Its implied McCree tipped Ashe off that there was a train with military grade weapons going through, and he didn't tell her that Echo was also on board.
limpid agate
not anymore since overwatch was disbanded
it was repossed
Which is why it was on the train
Echo: Is Overwatch property
Overwatch: Shuts down
Echo: Is repossessed by the authorities, like all the other dangerous Overwatch property (Read: Pulse Rifle)
onyx marsh
all facts
limpid agate
That's the earliest we have seen of her.
limpid agate
Which is why this article is from 7-20 years ago
Uprising has Mondatta and Athena
And Zen is 20 years old
grand wedge
Yes
placid fulcrum
keep in mind that Liao only refers to Athena protoype
limpid agate
So this e-mail was sent from some time in that range. If you can narrow it down further, that would be appreciated
She refers to Athena, and then a new project
grand wedge
We don’t know how old he was when he « awake » with the others
placid fulcrum
is Athena and Athena prototype the same thing? or an earlier version of athena?
grand wedge
I’ll try to narrow it down tonight with my viewers ^^
placid fulcrum
so if athena from Uprising is the final version, then the log is from before that
limpid agate
@grand wedge No, we don't. I mean realisitcally, we can say 19-8 years ago
grand wedge
Yeah
grand wedge
Yes
limpid agate
!!loreHeroes zenyatta
twilit nacelleBOT
To learn more, please visit https://playoverwatch.com/en-us/heroes/zenyatta#story
limpid agate
Lemme see if they mention more here...
grand wedge
Need zen lore!
limpid agate
Years ago, following the Omnic Crisis, a group of outcast omnic robots experienced what they described as a spiritual awakening. They abandoned their preprogrammed lives to establish a communal monastery deep in the Himalayas
Yeah we dont have anything more specific
grand wedge
Yeah
teal meadow
When bob opened the capsule that Echo was in, him and ashe looked pretty shoked for some reason. Why is that?
limpid agate
They didn't know what it was
teal meadow
But what did they saw?
limpid agate
And weren't expecting something like that kind of high grade tech in a military weapon shipment
They saw Echo
OR well, Echo's pod
placid fulcrum
liao wanted her project to make all of humanity realize that AI has the potential of life. why didn't it happen? why was Echo never introduced to the world?
south ether
thats just the capsule
teal meadow
@limpid agate but they opened it
limpid agate
Yes
grand wedge
They opened it but the sleek white thing could be anything
placid fulcrum
it looks strangely simialr to the eye thing
south ether
it doesnt mean that she's there now we saw here standing what if shes not in the capsule
grand wedge
Yes - with no face
placid fulcrum
eh, no false alamr, just the angle
limpid agate
Yeah
peak escarp
imagine seeing a high-tech mannequin taken apart and shoved in a crate
grand wedge
Ashe probably thought it was some prototype weapon - not a robot with a soul
onyx marsh
facts
teal meadow
I don't want to be nsfw, but in that case it look like a weird toy
teal meadow
Still, ashe was insterested a lot in what that maniquine was
limpid agate
Ashe: Gets a weapon shipment
McCree: Says he wants whats in that capsule
What's in that capsule: Some fancy high tech robot that's unlike the omnics
Yeah they'll be surprised and interested
teal meadow
You think she was going to sell it if she won the crate?
placid fulcrum
mccree was willing to let go of the entire shipment aside from that one thing and he refused to tell her what it was - suspicious as hell, gotta be worth a lot
teal meadow
Anyway, who believes blizzard is trying to make us think Liao is the hero instead of Echo?
They kinda did the same with Efi and Orisa
onyx marsh
that's so true
teal meadow
Everyone thought it was Efi at first. Then doomfist. And then we got Orisa
placid fulcrum
nah. they know that we know. but they promised us more liao lore
hexed trellis
Have you ever seen Mei and orisa in the same room together I don't think so they are clearly the same person
peak escarp
!!shitposting @hexed trellis
twilit nacelleBOT
@hexed trellis Shitposting will result in a loss of access.
teal meadow
We pretty much haven't seen Orisa in the same room with anybody so far
placid fulcrum
you can see them in the same room together in qp 😉
teal meadow
@peak escarp i see you're hyped by your Liao themed profile picture
peak escarp
of course
placid fulcrum
the only way they could surprise us now
placid fulcrum
is by revealing that actually Echo was the Athena prototype, and this new hero will be an entirely new and previously unseen robot hero
teal meadow
I'm afraid that this "omnic" is the same robot looking guy that doctor has in his photo
placid fulcrum
yeah, but prototype could be very different from final form
limpid agate
If its Liao, that is a massive subversion from the expected. Especially with this teaser.
peak escarp
Echo is too advanced to be a prototype for an AI
limpid agate
Echo is too advanced to be a prototype for an AI Athena
placid fulcrum
she doesn't look like a support hero though
peak escarp
prototypes are usually less advanced/developed than the final version
limpid agate
And we were told
hasty surge
At least we now know liao's name
peak escarp
not the other way around
limpid agate
Echo is not Athena
she doesn't look like a support hero though
What do you mean by this
Is it because she doesn't heal in Zero Hour
peak escarp
she looks like a support, she just doesn't act like one
limpid agate
Because Brig and Lucio dont look like supports in Zero Hour/Brazil Intro either
peak escarp
but neither did Brigitte in Zero Hour