Winston kept in contact with Tracer, but perhaps others just didn't know where to find him
#lore-discussion
placid fulcrum
worthy rose
And Paris happened shortly after
placid fulcrum
And Reinhard and Brigitte may have been late because they were still struggling with the decision whether to come back
limpid agate
Dragons happened around the same time as Recall/Alive/Hero
placid fulcrum
Brig was against it,Rein may have been worried he won't be welcome
limpid agate
Valkyrie was well after Hero/Old Soldiers/Bastet/Reflections
Which means it was also aftet Dragons/Reflections
Genji would have already dealt with Hanzo and told Mercy about it before Valk
placid fulcrum
Well, we know Mercy isn't the biggest fan of restarting overwatch
worthy rose
Okay, so she showed up ‘cause her boothang was already there
worthy rose
Her boo thang.
limpid agate
It wasn't because of Genji
placid fulcrum
It was because of soldier and ana
limpid agate
^
placid fulcrum
But I think Baptiste telling her she's on Talon's hit list was the final straw
worthy rose
But deep down it was ‘cause of Genji
twilit nacelleBOT
@worthy rose Shitposting will result in a loss of access.
worthy rose
Wow, mod abuse.
placid fulcrum
What was McCree doing in Hanamura on March 6-8?
"Joel" (riiiight) wrote an article about him and there's a date march 3 and a photo from hanamura
Also a mention of detroit omnium....
limpid agate
Some nondescript vigilante justice.
placid fulcrum
That point on Sombra's map, could it be clise to that omnium?
placid fulcrum
I mean the worldmap in her hideout in Castillo
limpid agate
Oh, picture?
placid fulcrum
There are three points there - one in russia, one in africa, and one in north america
Wait a sec, i posted it yesterday
limpid agate
That's neither Volskaya nor the omnium
Volskaya is in Petersberg
The omnium is in Siberia
If that's in Russia and not Korea or China
It's Vladivostok
Wait no
That's further East
It's Mongolia or China
placid fulcrum
Hmm...
It says "objectivo" on it,so the points must be important in some way...
What about that point in north America? Is it close to detroit? I'm having trouble telling it
limpid agate
It looks like New York or Pennsylvania
If I had to guess...
New York, Numbani, Ulan Batar
frosty shell
Could be the Overwatch Museum
ocean scaffold
good point
frosty shell
IMO it's just as likely some of the locations are random
Numbani probably isn't though
peak escarp
I tried to match it up to a world map
the middle one is definitely Nigeria/Numbani
pliant sparrow
Numbani is in the ocean 
peak escarp
Sombra's markers are a little off
pliant sparrow
Evidently she never finished her geography lessons
peak escarp
the one on the left could be Toronto or Detroit (or maybe even Indiana, Jack's home state)
worthy rose
I find it odd that Florida hasn't sank to the ocean due to global warming but I digress
peak escarp
the one in Asia is too far east to be Krasnoyarsk
it could be the location of the Siberian omnium, or it could be somewhere in Mongolia/China near the border
Sombra's map is too low-res to make it out, and the markers cover a very large area
pliant sparrow
Surprisingly most of britain is still intact as well
proud lynx
The Devs didn't predict the Coronavirus
twilit nacelleBOT
@proud lynx Shitposting will result in a loss of access.
proud lynx
Sorry
opaque tundra
Are you talking about the league because this is Lore discussion
worthy rose
Mb wrong channel lol
proud lynx
Hey so did reaper actually die and come back to life or did people just think he did
peak escarp
people just think he did
peak escarp
Both Anubis and Athena are bodyless AI capable of controlling other robots
we have never seen Athena control other robots
@placid fulcrum I'm surprised you didn't mention the other Echo-like omnic seen in Recall in your post
placid fulcrum
I wanted to
peak escarp
and the image you had of the "robot that looks like Echo" isn't from the intro cinematic
placid fulcrum
but I had to cut out a ton of things, because they made the psot too long
peak escarp
it's from the cinematic trailer
which is old and not really reliable for what can be considered canon
placid fulcrum
I got it from the cinematic. it shows up int he video the kdis are watching
peak escarp
yes
placid fulcrum
was that a trailer?
peak escarp
but that's not the intro cinematic for the game
that's the cinematic trailer released in 2014 when the game was announced
placid fulcrum
regarding the athena contorlling robots, that was my assumption from the robot in the museum
peak escarp
the intro cinematic is "Are you with us?" and has Winston talking to the camera
placid fulcrum
hm
it's slightly irrirtating that some canon sources are seemingly no longer canon
peak escarp
I'm CowboyVigilante btw, if you haven't figured that out
peak escarp
Was that Echo?!
Jeff Kaplan: It is Echo.
In the old picture... Sometimes what an artist like Arnold does is say, 'There's too much white space, I want to put a logo on,' so he just put the Athena logo on the model. And the community embraced that model as being Athena. Athena is actually Winston's AI, which is a separate thing - this character is separate from being Athena. The players also know Athena as the narrator of the competitive matches as well. But this is Echo, who is somebody completely different.```oh nice. so this is meant to be echo.
peak escarp
yes
placid fulcrum
pity lucio is there too, I'm trying to determine the exact timeline of echo joining overwatch and being deactivated, and it's a little hard
she doens't show up on any photos, she doens't get a seat in the jet...
peak escarp
We'll find out more when she gets added as a hero
placid fulcrum
nobody has ever mentioned her or any robot for that matter
placid fulcrum
there is one thing though - genji says that he's close with mercy because she's the only one still awake late at night at the base. if echo doens't sleep, then she should be awake as well
peak escarp
maybe he doesn't count her
lament prawn
she is weaponized though, and there's nothing suggesting she only got weapons between her reactivation and zero hour
placid fulcrum
so either she wasn'y there yet, or she was alreayd gone
peak escarp
from what I figure, Overwatch in general didn't treat omnics/robots as equals
Genji probably didn't either until he met Zen
placid fulcrum
but they did send a recall signal to at least one robot. yet echo didn't receive one. and mccree has this line about overwatching wanting him but needing her, as if she was never intended to receive the recall signal to begin with. they didn't want her
lament prawn
i dont think she could receive anything, being deactivated
peak escarp
it's possible that Echo was deactivated before the fall, so she wouldn't be on the Recall registry
placid fulcrum
yeah, but that raises the question of why was she deactivated and that other boto wasn't
I also think that
placid fulcrum
mccree had her chip. assuming the chip wasn't inexplicably kept in a separate location than her body, the simplest expalantion is that he has the chip because took it from overwatch before he left
peak escarp
that makes sense
placid fulcrum
which means that echo was deactivated in the window between blackwatch's suspension and the swiss incident. there's very little we know about that period, but we know of two unauthorized missions that caused a lot of political trouble - the one by the blackwatch, and the one by the strike team. if echo was a blackwatch memebr, then she would have to have been deactivated at the same time when blackwatch was suspended, perhaps as part of it
if she was on the strike team, then she may have been deactivated following the king's row mission. in storm rising there's multiple interactions alluding to jack being udner pressure to disband the strike team as well
and finally - echo could've been part of whatever division mccree became part of after blackwatch was suspended
but then it's hard to think fo a possible motive for her deactivation
she didn't seem damaged in any way
also, notice that she acts surpsied how much time has passed when she was gone. like she was told her deactivation was only temporary
hence why I suspect it may have something to do with the king's row/venice incident. maybe she was told she'd only be deactivated while the investigation into these incidents is ongoing
peak escarp
I think they would have shown her sooner if she was involved with those events
she has existed internally since 2014 - that payload on Route 66 was always her
so the dev team could have put her in those events (or even just mentioned her) if it was relevant
placid fulcrum
well, a lot of characters don't show up much. sojourn was supposed to have been aprt of the strike team all along, yet there are so many group photos that she's not on
and missions where she's only a voice
peak escarp
the strike team wasn't a set group of people
it's whoever is assigned to it at the time
during the King's Row mission, it's Rein, Mercy, Torb and Tracer
placid fulcrum
my point is - she doens't seem to be a part of the group, anyone's friend. nobody felt inspired to hang photos of her in their personal space
peak escarp
placid fulcrum
yeah, that's one
peak escarp
also how many photos do we really see, aside from this one?
peak escarp
such as?
I don't remember any
except the ones seen in Zero Hour, which do have Sojourn
placid fulcrum
winston's graduation photo. the photos in their houses. she wasn't at the halloween party either
placid fulcrum
but that's all the same photo
peak escarp
yes
placid fulcrum
and that guy who's nowhere to be seen is on it too, so sojourn isn't special
peak escarp
my point is there aren't that many different photos
just the same one shown multiple times
placid fulcrum
I disagree
placid fulcrum
how many different images of emily do we have in the game?
we have as many images of sojorun as of pharah's dad
peak escarp
I'm not talking about sprays
I'm talking about diagetic images - pictures that are part of the world
we don't have any pictures of Emily or Sam in the world
peak escarp
does everyone in a company show up in every single group photo?
Mei isn't in any of those photos either
limpid agate
Whats this about
placid fulcrum
no, but they show up multiple times together, and she's only on one of the photos. obviously the emta explanation is that she's on some other photos, but it's obvious that we photos were inteded to picture plaayble characters, and she wasn't a plabable character
peak escarp
dreamfisher suggested that Echo was deactivated because of her role in either the King's Row Uprising or the Venice incident
placid fulcrum
so the same deal might be with echo - she was there all along, we jsut din't see her
limpid agate
Echo had nothing to do with Uprising or Retribution
peak escarp
I said that if she was there then the devs would have put her there
limpid agate
There is a difference between not showing her but she is part of the organization at the time, and not showing her in an event you are suggesting she is related to
Sojourn was not shown or mentioned in Uprising or Retribution
But she was wholly unrelated to them
placid fulcrum
let's say she's part of blackwatch and blackwatch gets suspended - wouldn't the suspention also include all weapons used by blackwatch?
same witht he strike team
limpid agate
There is a possibility she was shutdown in that general "Overwatch in doubt" era
placid fulcrum
if echo was part of it, and jack was under pressure after the king's row mission, then petras may have demanded that echo is deactivated
limpid agate
That sounds like it would be a dumb reason
placid fulcrum
oh sure, she could've been deactivated at any point. I'm jsut looking at the only two specific incidents that we know fueled the public's negatvie opinion of overwatch and the pressure put on jack
what seems a dumb reason to me is deactivating one agent because people jsut don't like overwatch that much these days
I'm looking for triggers. something concrete. sadly, there isn't much,a side from these two incidents
I work with what I have. you're free to have your own theories, we don't all have to always agree about everything.
limpid agate
what seems a dumb reason to me is deactivating one agent because people jsut don't like overwatch that much these days
Isn't that your exact speculation here
"King's Row Uprising, better deactivate Echo"
"Retribution, better deactivate Echo"
placid fulcrum
that's not the same thing at all
after retribution blackwatch was suspended. wholly. it's a drastic measure that was likely forced by petras, not jack's independent decision
and if they can go so far as to suspend an entire division, then deactivating one robot alongside it is hardly a susprising move
limpid agate
Are you suggesting Echo is Blackwatch?
placid fulcrum
but if things are going relatively well, and then suddenly jack wakes up and thinks to himself "you know what will improve public opinion about voerwatch? if we deactivate echo!"
that's silly
what triggered it?
no, not specifically
limpid agate
If Echo is not Blackwatch, then shutting down Echo because of Blackwatch is silly
placid fulcrum
jsut giving an example, because blackwatch is the only division that we know was suspenede in canon
we don't know what division was echo a part of
may have been blackwatch for all we know. it's not like we've seen all blakcwatch agents in canon
all we know is that she and mccree were close, and may have been working together
could've been part of the division he was reassigned to after blackwatch was suspended
but again we arrive at the same question - why was she deactivated? why her specificlaly, not the other omnics?
limpid agate
She isnt an omnic
placid fulcrum
a person from that world would call her that
so I'm using the word the way they would
limpid agate
There is a difference between colloquial and political
Politcally, I dont think you can deactivate omnics like Zenyatta
That would cause a bigger problem
Not a smaller one
placid fulcrum
she was a weapon. overwatch was allowed to use them. why not her? what specific event caused everyone to decide that she'd better be deactivated? we don't know that
again, i work with what I have
limpid agate
There is nothing wrong with saying
We dont have all the pieces
You dont need to go force two pieces together that dont fit. There is a gap
placid fulcrum
but, see, we have to make theories without these pieces
so I make mine and you can make yours
placid fulcrum
I still beelive in double agent reyes
limpid agate
Sigh
iron plume
well, evil mercy is more like making up your own pieces
placid fulcrum
evil mercy is no longer the case since moira was introduced
iron plume
it was never the case
limpid agate
^
placid fulcrum
whatever. the double agent reaper is another thing entirely
because his motivation is laughable and his actions are dumb
peak escarp
the double-agent theory comes from people trying to find reasons to justify Reyes turning on Overwatch
placid fulcrum
and they're right
peak escarp
the problem is, we don't know his motivation/reasons
placid fulcrum
it' comes from trying desperately to look for some depth in this kiddie pool
because it's dumb, it's jsut dumb
placid fulcrum
no, it gives better scenarios than canon provides
peak escarp
or you could just accept that we don't know the reason, and wait until we do
placid fulcrum
that's not what blog is about
can't answer every question with "not enough information"
I make theories
not all need to be perfectly correct
lament prawn
there'll probably be some dramatic confrontation between soldier and reaper that tells us more, hopefully in or around OW2
limpid agate
They're saying dont make shit theories based on next to nothingfor the sake of making a connection.
placid fulcrum
I can speculate on whatever I want however I want on my damn blog
placid fulcrum
then don't bother me about it here
peak escarp
nobody brought up your blog except you
placid fulcrum
you linked it here and tagged me doctor six
peak escarp
that was about Echo, not Reaper
limpid agate
What the fuck
peak escarp
I was just pointing out inaccuracies in your info
limpid agate
I havent posted a single link today
placid fulcrum
remember that chart you amde about character relationships and the inaccuracies I pointed out?
yeah, that's how it feels
peak escarp
yes, and I appreciate when people point out my mistakes
limpid agate
But Doctor Six likes being informed when they made a mistake so they can correct it
Like most of the regulars here
Including myself
placid fulcrum
yeah, and I appreciate that you told me the robot in the picture was confirmed to be echo
placid fulcrum
but that's an undeniable canon fact
what division echo used to belong to is not an undeniable canon fact
limpid agate
Ok.
peak escarp
the undeniable fact is that we don't know what division she was in
placid fulcrum
alright, alright
peak escarp
so filling in the blanks on your own blog is fine, but making assumptions here (without a good argument) won't go over well
build an argument and let us poke holes in it - that's pretty much all we do around here
placid fulcrum
ok
but don't expect me to always agree with you. that ain't gonna happen every time
peak escarp
it's all we really have, when there's nothing to discuss
of course not
having everyone agree makes for very boring discussion
limpid agate
At the same time
Be open to disagreement
No one likes talking to someone who is too stubborn.
If you wanted to suggest Echo was part of Blackwatch
Then sure, I could have agreed
But if she is not
Then I cannot possibly agree
The scenario you present with her not being in Blackwatch being shutdown because of Retribution or Uprising is too silly
If she was Blackwatch and shutdown because of Blackwatch being shutdown, that makes sense
placid fulcrum
I eman, that was my point
in the scenario of echo being in blackwatch, then blackwatch beign suspended would be the moment when she was deactivated
limpid agate
Then work on expressing your points.
placid fulcrum
in the scenario where she was a part of the strike team, it would've been king's row
limpid agate
Because you told me the exact opposite
peak escarp
I could see space for her to be part of Blackwatch, because not all of Blackwatch went on that mission
but the strike team is just the team that goes on the mission
and we know all of them
placid fulcrum
makes sense
peak escarp
she could also not be a proper member of Overwatch, but still know McCree and Winston
which would explain why she wasn't sent the Recall
limpid agate
I dont mind the theories that she was just a tool
Because she isnt an omnic, and therefor, isnt a person
placid fulcrum
yeah, but mccree going out of his way to retrieve her, and taking off his hat for her just makes it seem like the two were very close
limpid agate
If they do decide to say she is an omnic, everything about her would be a humanitarian crisis.
placid fulcrum
even if she wasn't specificlaly an omnic, the king's row mission could affect her for two reasons:
- unlike the blackwatch mission, the king's row mission was specifically connected to a human-robot conflict, so it would've made sense if it were to negatively affect all robots working for overwatch
- blackwatch never got explicit orders either for or against the mission. but jack specifically went against orders to let the king's row mission happen, so all of overwatch would be under scrutiny, not jsut the strike team. with blackwatch is was a blackwatch problem, with king's row it was all of overwatch's problem
also regarding 1 - junkrat has that line in the comic about how being friendly with omnics didn't work for overwatch. I imagine his opinion was shared among many people. and seeing how anti-omnic britian was, they absolutely could've accused overwatch of going easy on the null sector because they have so many robots in their ranks that they're very friendly to. and with petras being furious at jack for defying orders, he may have denadned the removal of all robot agents. in the case of "proper" omnic agents, they probably could've just been forced to retire like reinhardt. but echo would've been deactivated
it's just weird because their base was in switzerland, and switzerland gave citizenship to winston, an animal. why wouldn't they give it to echo?
limpid agate
junkrat has that line in the comic about how being friendly with omnics didn't work for overwatch
Do you happen to know which comic
Because that reminds me that
There are no omnics in Overwatch
placid fulcrum
hmm, what about that robot in recall?
limpid agate
Which
placid fulcrum
1 sec
peak escarp
Going Legit, page 4
placid fulcrum
limpid agate
Hmm...
Mystery Recall faces aside
The only machines we have seen working for Overwatch
Were robots, not omnics
At the very least, the mystery recall faces don't match existing omnic design, and we know not all machines are omnics. But that is a fair counter point
placid fulcrum
there's definitely a serious omnic underrepresentation in overwatch. and it's even acknowledge din the comics. there's that one headline "overwatch anti-progress and anti-sovereignty" behind tracer and jack in Uprising comic, and "ant-progress" most likely refers to omnic rights
btw, it's interesting that the train had hundreds of crates filled with various weapons, but echo was alone there. there were no others like her
ok, but i gotta go now, it's late and I have to wake up early tomorrow. been nice talking with you, we cna continue tomorrow
or you can keep discussing this and I will just read up in the morning
mystic summit
hope we learn more about omnic energy
not satisfied with omnics being robots powered by omnic energy
valid terrace
I’m sure we’ll learn about it extensively in OW2 where Omnics, or at least robots, are being created en masse
Maybe even in the Orisa book
mystic summit
I want some more science
placid fulcrum
I mean, it's not like the science of overwatch was ever realistic begin with. they might as well be powered by some newly discovered "omnic energy"
pliant sparrow
Most of it could genuinely end up existing at some point in the future
Probably not how it's shown in the game though
ocean scaffold
hope we learn more about omnic energy
i always suggested that they are functioning on some kind of power core and they don't need charging devices
https://youtu.be/8tjcm_kI0n0
there's some lore pieces about omnics in newspapers, nanotech is mentioned
limpid agate
Sorry to derail but
I wonder if Echo's official classification is drone.
Or robot
Or what
grand wedge
Drones are supposed to be pilot by someone right ?
ocean scaffold
no
we can see examples of drones in "going legit" comic
placid fulcrum
Junk and Hog couldn't distinguish them from omnics until they found the company logo
Maybe that's the difference? If it has a logo, it's a drone?
worthy rose
I would think the difference is if it has personhood or not
Omnics for example have personhood
Drones I imagine do not
placid fulcrum
Yeah, but that's not something you can tell on sight
worthy rose
It's not an on sight thing but if junkrat and roadhog can distinguish then there must be an indicator down the line. Omnics and drones are both mechanic in nature and with the article's leading question of "Can drones be trusted?" Implies that omnics can't be trusted so what about the other mechanical things in your life
worthy rose
I think the new hero will be talon which has no arms cos overwatch took it or somthin else
placid fulcrum
careful there, the line between jokes and shitposting is thin
also, both torb and mccree are missing the same arm
junkrat misses the opposite arm
so if they were to steal a robot's arms, they'd have to cooperate with the junkers for this
frosty shell
The Junk and Hog thing was probably then realizing the bots they destroyed came from the company that hired them
frosty shell
And yes, Omnics probably wouldn't have a logo on them
meager dove
Do you think sigma is a god and all of overwatch is in his head
peak escarp
no
civic tapir
yes
limpid agate
Obviously not.
hasty surge
Is the pod hanging in Gibraltar attack spawn, Winston's
limpid agate
It is the shuttle he used to get to Earth
hasty surge
Arh I see
worthy rose
Zen lore now
peak escarp
wait for OW2
frosty totem
Do you think sigma is a god and all of overwatch is in his head
the only fictional universe that happens in is elder scrolls and even that is only because that franchise is really weird
frank ermine
pliant sparrow
You're forgetting about lovecraftian works there firedeath
elfin birch
Is there a skin for rein thats the reins dad skin from reins origin story?
elfin birch
Lol what's his name?
frosty shell
Balderich von Adler
full basin
Wow, I just remembered what the deeper meaning behind Sombra's "Boop" is O.o
frosty totem
Wow, I just remembered what the deeper meaning behind Sombra's "Boop" is O.o
there is a deeper meaning?
odd jackal
I hope that next retribution event will be more than just fighting the same AI on a new map, like ya know last year had this mission that started with tracer on a motocycle, and we all hoped that we will be able to ride it, but we didn't. I don't think I want the same thing, but killing AI on trucks would be fun
Like moving trucks
limpid agate
I think riding a motorcycle would be awful in this game
last inlet
Aside from the possible nightmare it would be to program that into this game, it would essentially just be another very scripted section but with less room for movement.
If it's just trucks you stand on, then that'd be less difficult but still just another sequence
peak escarp
I hope the missions in OW2 have more diverse objectives besides "capture this location" or "escort a payload"
lament prawn
oh for sure
im guaranteed to enjoy the cinematics, which will probably have more story squeezed into them than the actual gameplay, but for the gameplay itself i do hope for new mechanics
peak escarp
I liked the timed escape from the Rio mission, although it looked very generous
and having to destroy the core was interesting
lament prawn
and not just the talent stuff - things like tracer's chain pulse bomb or mei's cryo-blizzard are just existing abilities amplified. i want like, new viewmodel animations, or the ability for heroes to vault over high obstacles, or dedicated animations for getting revived. this is the stuff that gets disregarded in order to refine "core" mechanics like the basic moveset and abilities but imo its so much more important for replayability now that you wont be playing in a competitive environment
i came up with weird examples for my point, but i hope i got the message across
iron plume
I haven't even thought about revival animations but yeah
it would look so much nicer if it was a thing
peak escarp
I'd be happy to just get a zoom/free camera mode in the hero gallery
worthy rose
I think they intentionally didn't include that to avoid people perving out on Roadhog.
wide ice
yeas]
full basin
Do you guys think the progression in Overwatch is so slow because their engine is really challenging to work with or?
I don't know- The established lore we have is pretty good in my opinion. And the game looks beautiful etc. So you could say it's quality over quantity?
odd jackal
Lemme think of it
full basin
Just really feels like we've only scratched the surface of this universe
lament prawn
overwatch the current game is a team based competitive shooter, with lore as a secondary priority, and it will stay secondary until OW2
full basin
I remember I was getting really into the lore of this game about a year ago but haven't looked into it at all since then and it feels like the state of the lore hasn't changed much if at all tbh
lament prawn
they do plan to expand the franchise beyond games even
full basin
Hmm that's true
odd jackal
If you really expand the engine abilities then it is hard to do anything on it
Also
Making heroes is hard.
lament prawn
its not like most of the lore we have now came from within the game anyway
full basin
I just really enjoy games a lot more if it has a good narrative and story behind it- Something Overwatch has in my opinion. But then we don't really see any continuation which is really unfortunate. But yeah- We'll have to see how much they bring to the table with OW2
odd jackal
I want to see the real beginning like times before overwatch
full basin
Like, has Overwatch even continued past the Recall point? Or is that what OW2 is?
lament prawn
have you seen the zero hour short?
full basin
Yes
full basin
I cried during that I am not gonna lie hahaha
odd jackal
I think
lament prawn
that short is a year after recall
full basin
Lorewise?
full basin
Ooh exciting.
Honestly, the new maps look gorgeous
The map in Canada, omg
Also they upgraded or changed the graphics a little as well, correct?
odd jackal
Also I like how there is that one guy, that makes really good parodies of shorts, they look almost like made by blizzard
full basin
What guy? The one who makes "If Overwatch was Doom" or someone else?
full basin
You can just give me the Youtuber's name 😛 (Cause I think you can't)
lament prawn
yeah, they upgraded the graphics, you can find youtubers playing the new push gamemode on the toronto map on OW2's engine
though all heroes are using their OW1 skins and im not if those models were visually updated to how they do hair and eyes for OW2
full basin
By the way I have a question about Sombra: During her Origin Story she said that "For the first, someone noticed her"- Do we exactly know who or what did?
Or is that maybe just merely referring to the fact that she isn't the only hacker in the world and she had to be more cautious and secretive from then on?
Ooh I am suddenly so excited about Sombra her updated model in the next game even if it's just a little graphical update with the same look 😄
You can maybe tell that she is my favourite character by now lol
lament prawn
all the heroes are getting redesigns, like we've seen with the few they showed at blizzcon
they wont be drastic - jeff compared them to the different iterations of the iron man suit
who "noticed" sombra is still a mystery
some people are theorizing "the iris" and sombra's conspiracy are the same hero, but no one knows yet
all we know is this mystery organization seems to be the center of everything
full basin
I think I am gonna read up on all the lore again cause I see so much potential for the story to evolve into something so great
I need to be up to date ;p
peak escarp
most of the lore we've gotten has covered either the ~1 year period between Recall and Zero Hour, or the ~10 years leading up to the fall of Overwatch
worthy rose
In that picture, there's an Omnic connected directly to the Eye who's also connected to the Rein-Torb-Brig group
Any idea on who that is?
left moon
No
limpid agate
The Iris is the subject of Shambali faith
Some speculate that the Iris is related to the eye looking symbol at the heart of Sombra's diagram
But we dont know what it is really
I personally believe that they are the same thing, but both the Shambali and Sombra misinterpretted it, and it was just a passive observer.
But that's just speculation
valid terrace
I’ve been a long supporter of that theory since it adds more 3 dimensional aspects of the universe
worthy rose
Cool but what does that mean?
valid terrace
Storylines with different viewpoints are more interesting at least to me
valid terrace
Rn not a lot
Talon’s fight in general I enjoy since everyone in it is there with different goals
worthy rose
ya
overwatch if it was real would get disbanned
since it is under no country
and would be to powerful to be in existance
worthy rose
But it helped a lot with the Omnic Crisis, so it was too popular to just dissolve it, and it probably helped in semi-related peacekeeping missions around when the Omnic Crisis ended, so it just ended up transitioning into a global police.
worthy rose
Overwatch was under the UN
Think about it like the captain america movie where Tony was trying to get the sokovia accords signed
Overwatch was under UN watch but more or less operated with autonomy and whenever they didn't; They'd send in blackwatch to do whatever deeds needed doing
lament prawn
if humans and machine are all one within the iris then its probably not a cool bots only club
livid elbow
Well at least there is no Robo discrimination policy then, hahaha!
Hello, I have been away for a very long time so I don’t know if much has changed or not, I have a question about Talon’s fighters like their infantry, enforcers, assassins, snipers and heavies. Do they appear in any other lore sources that are not from the actual mission like Retribution, Storm Rising or their data explaining what they are?
pliant sparrow
Most infantry seem to be hired grunts
I'd assume the same for the heavy
What you left behind gives a few details
livid elbow
What you left behind gives a few details
@pliant sparrow okay, do you mean what I said about them appearing in the archive missions?
pliant sparrow
Wylb is a baptiste story
You can find in pinned messages I believe or just by searching up baptiste Wylb full story
iron plume
!!loretext
twilit nacelleBOT
Short Stories:
Bastet: https://bit.ly/2QuXHmM
What You Left Behind: https://bit.ly/2Fh7MRz
Valkyrie: https://bit.ly/2CF5JVE
News Reports:
Fading Glory; Jack Morrison: http://bit.ly/2f9TPq4
Experimental Weapon Stolen: http://bit.ly/2fMrKsj
Lucio's Synaesthesia World Tour: http://bit.ly/2flja2U
LumériCo: http://bit.ly/1XAJfd1
Overwatch is Back: http://bit.ly/1TAWebT
LumériCo Revealed: http://bit.ly/2e6P5oj
Portero Steps Down: http://bit.ly/2fk8Bes
Efi Oladele Interview: http://bit.ly/2miMZkT
Horizon Lunar Colony: http://bit.ly/2reMSKx
Attack on Helix: http://bit.ly/2tn45mk
Oslo Attack: https://bit.ly/2uHKXUr
Don Rumbotico: https://bit.ly/2VtzZKX
Documents:
Mei's Adventure: http://bit.ly/2fMxRg4
Torb's Letter: http://bit.ly/2HK4CWa
Venice Declassified: https://bit.ly/2Hs807B
Cuerva: https://bit.ly/2BHEqd9
Travel Guides:
Oasis: http://bit.ly/2iPTM4K
Paris: https://bit.ly/2GEyOoq
iron plume
second link
pliant sparrow
Thank you : )
livid elbow
@pliant sparrow Thank you
limpid agate
We have also seen Talon troopers in other lore pieces, such as Train Hopper and Recall
Widowmaker is also a Talon Sniper
Enforcers and Assassins were only ever shown in Archives though. We haven't even seen them in OW2 yet
Correct me if I am mistaken. I don't think I am tough
peak escarp
yeah
livid elbow
Correct me if I am mistaken. I don't think I am tough
@limpid agate
Not sure what you mean by that, but I am sure you are
limpid agate
though*
livid elbow
Okay, well, especially in Recall, it shows how tough even regular talon troops can be if they can take a hit from Winston
charred lodge
Torb is the third shimada
plush wigeon
and mercy is genji's sis
peak escarp
no
charred lodge
Yes
plush wigeon
yes
limpid agate
!!shitposting
twilit nacelleBOT
Shitposting will result in a loss of access.
charred lodge
Wow that was fast
livid elbow
that escalated quickly!
peak escarp
you can't just come in here and make stuff up
livid elbow
who here thinks there will be a new Doomfist after Akande?
peak escarp
this channel is for serious discussion
limpid agate
@livid elbow There probably wont be
livid elbow
I remember that the first Doomfist was the
peak escarp
if Akande is ever defeated . . . maybe? he doesn't seem to have an apprentice now (and based on how he got his title, he probably won't have one)
livid elbow
Savior, maybe if there is a new one, it will be the Redeemer or something similar but with an S
limpid agate
Final warning.
charred lodge
Yeah it was only one joke ... whatever i get interested in the story of doomfist i didn't know that his name was akande tell me more
limpid agate
The playable hero Doomfist is the third Doomfist.
Akande Ogundimu
Also known as the Successor
The first was a hero known as the Saviour of Numbani. He was a good guy. He was presumably killed by the second Doomfist, Akinjide Adeymi, also known as the Scourge of Numbani. He was a Talon member who constantly raided Numbani. Akande was his apprentice.
Akande killed the Scourge, and then rose through the ranks of Talon until he became the current head honcho. He is on the council of leaders, and is leading Talon towards the events of OW2.
!!loreheroes doomfist
twilit nacelleBOT
To learn more, please visit https://playoverwatch.com/en-us/heroes/doomfist#story
charred lodge
Ok i have a few question.
Is he the leader of talon?
Why in the animated short he has his right arm or is a prothetic one? If it is a prosthetic arm why do they left a dangerous criminal master mind whith a prosthetic arm capable of breaking the prison cell?
No one is going to answers my questions?
:(
peak escarp
he is one of the leaders of Talon
others include Reaper, Moira, Sanjay Korpal and Maximilien
his right arm under the gauntlet is a prosthetic
but it's also more of an implant, since it's part of his body
charred lodge
@peak escarp why do they didn't take it off?
charred lodge
Then why they didn't put him in a more stronger cell not in cell made out of concrete they are supposed to be years ahead in the future
charred lodge
I don't know it seems like a very logic option i mean they took away his gaunlet after all.
Ahh why do i care so much there's a giant gorilla and a oversized hamster in the same universe
livid elbow
Well, concrete wall is not something that can easily contain Doomfist, even without his gauntlet
valid terrace
That’s what he’s arguing
It’s likely that he was transferred there or some other security measure was lowered
Otherwise it wouldn’t have taken years to escape
peak escarp
we see newspaper clippings in his cell about the failed museum job and Winston recalling Overwatch
it's implied that Doomfist was biding his time, waiting for the right moment
valid terrace
Maybe they thought he was more secure, considering he hadn’t gotten out before
stark socket
wtf, is Wrecking Ball sentient and a separate charater from Hammond?
stark socket
there's a voice line that says "the hamster sends his regard"
peak escarp
that's Wrecking Ball translating for Hammond
stark socket
ya thats what i thought too
eh ya you could be right. like a mental translator thing
only makes it more of an atrocity that Blizzard named it Wrecking Ball over Hammond 😠
valid terrace
Well his fighter alias in junkertown was wrecking ball
Aka him fighting you in the mech
Like how Reaper is Gabriel’s alias when he dons the mask and hot topic attire
worthy rose
And it's the name he gave himself
timid eagle
More like it's a title he inherited, but basically that, yes.
thorn ibex
What is the Ironclad Guild?
iron plume
He didn’t inherit it, he either made it up or took it from stories of people telling about him when he was still a blackwatch agent
The Ironclad Guild is an organization of engineers/mechanics that torb is a high ranking member of
or at least highly respected, they may not do ranks per se
charred lodge
Does magic exist in the overwhatch universe
charred lodge
What about genji and hanzo dragons and the iris
peak escarp
sometimes we just dont know what it is
the dragons could be hard light projections
the iris is a religion - those don't usually have explanations
charred lodge
How can a Japanese clan inherit hard light trough generation with tattoos
peak escarp
secret family technique of imbuing tattoos with hard light emitters passed down through the family?
idk
we just know it's not magic because the writers said it's not magic
charred lodge
This is stupid sci-fi. And i love it.
peak escarp
stupid sci-fi is fun
charred lodge
In experiment that tracer got her powers. Does overwhatch was doing more experiments like that.
?
charred lodge
Ok because i am trying to base a hero concept about that
Not a story likes tracer that will be copy pasted
delicate anchor
whats the entire lore
peak escarp
check the pins
austere pelican
is echo the next char in overwatch?
peak escarp
probably
austere pelican
shes probably gonna be like pharah, flying, perhaps with sometype of shielding ability, since she looks like sym
valid terrace
We don’t know
She will likely have some sort of flight mechanic and exploding orbs
But they aren’t confirmed in game just in lore
limpid agate
Its called a bomblet gun.
valid terrace
That’s probably easier thanks
peak escarp
they mentioned a bomblet gun as an idea in an interview a long time ago
they've had her planned out for a while
austere pelican
yes
limpid agate
That's not lore
austere pelican
its like seeping their strength?
peak escarp
McCree calls it "poison gas" in the Retribution chatter
charred lodge
@limpid agate you are very serious about the lore stuff
charred lodge
@limpid agate yeah i get it whatever
limpid agate
You dont need to ping me every time
charred lodge
Yeah i just get used to it
I kinda of my thing
Anyhow
Does anyone knows how is the the leader of the of the shimada clan
limpid agate
Unknown
charred lodge
I mean hanzo left after all
limpid agate
That was ~8 years ago
limpid agate
Sojiro, their dead father
charred lodge
Only that? Not uncles or cousins?
limpid agate
Not that we know of
desert atlas
@austere pelican well i was thinking that she might apply a shield buff, like brig + the blue shield thing on ur healthbar for zen. it would recharge as long as you dont lose it all. so if you got hit a few times you could run and let it recharge. but if it was removed completely it would go away
charred lodge
Does the shimada clan always have this rivalry about two siblings. Excluding hanzo and genji of course
limpid agate
!!loreShorts
twilit nacelleBOT
!tag loreShorts Animated Shorts:
Cinematic Trailer: http://bit.ly/1yhzaCC
Recall: http://bit.ly/1T1Aky8
Alive: http://bit.ly/1PSJV5x
Dragons: http://bit.ly/1WAZs3c
Hero: http://bit.ly/1ToCD1E
The Last Bastion: http://bit.ly/2b3TsNN
Infiltration: http://bit.ly/2emetBC
Rise and Shine: http://bit.ly/2xcMYoH
Honor and Glory: http://bit.ly/2A4FxRa
Shooting Star: https://bit.ly/2MCgtuP
Reunion: https://bit.ly/2AJhhHo
Zero Hour: https://bit.ly/2JGfNBP
Origin Trailers:
Tracer: http://bit.ly/2fDNQxI
Soldier 76: http://bit.ly/1FpWpDB
Ana: http://bit.ly/29zamjl
Sombra: http://bit.ly/2fMt3aJ
Orisa: http://bit.ly/2liKFy8
King's Row Uprising: http://bit.ly/2p2pukK
Doomfist: http://bit.ly/2tWoWzZ
Moira: http://bit.ly/2hF7GXZ
Brigitte: http://bit.ly/2GSto50
Hammond: https://bit.ly/2lKVlU9
Ashe: https://bit.ly/2F2SPor
Baptiste: https://bit.ly/2TeM1Kq
Sigma: https://bit.ly/2JJTVWE
Other Videos:
A Moment in Crime - Junkers: http://bit.ly/2fMsVYB
Are You With Us?: http://bit.ly/2fle4Uw
We Are Overwatch: http://bit.ly/1Pd9XmJ
The Plan: http://bit.ly/2uZiitC
Retribution: https://bit.ly/2MLHf44
Roadtrip: https://bit.ly/2RLk08M
Storm Rising: https://bit.ly/2MLHkEU
limpid agate
There we go
Watch Dragons
And tell me your interpretation
Because we know next to nothing about the clan
charred lodge
That's kind of bad
limpid agate
Why, its not important
charred lodge
I mean they seem to be one of the yakuza clan with more power in japan.
charred lodge
I don't know i was expecting more from the most powerful yakuza clan in japan
I mean the guys had generation of powerful warrior with drangon powers
limpid agate
We only know Hanzo/Genji are able to use the dragons. We dont know the extent of it
Its also not some magic power
Like everything in Overwatch, its some kinda technology
charred lodge
But hanzo says that only a shimada can use it that i would asume that if you are a shimada you will have the same abilities
limpid agate
"Only a shimada knows how to control the Dragons"
"Only a shimada has access to the technology required to control the Dragons"
"Only a shimada has learned how to control the Dragons"
It was said rather explicitly in an interview to not be magic
There is no magic
There never has been magic, its firm science fiction
charred lodge
I never say it was magic
Someone in the chat already told me that they are not magic
limpid agate
Then whats your point
charred lodge
That other shimada will be able to use the dragons as they do like they ancestors
limpid agate
Ok.
And
You keep saying ancestors
The game takes place ~60 years in the future
Not 600
The ancestors would be now/the 20th century
The brothers are in their 30s
Their father would be alive now
charred lodge
Well about his dad's
Well to be fair we don't even know how this dragons things work so i gonna shut my mouth
austere pelican
@desert atlas I can see something like that happening.
worthy rose
Is soldier 76
an antagonist
or protagonist#
and
do sombra and widowmaker have any power in talon
iron plume
Neither really
He’s a “good guy” but if anyone, the protagonists are winston and tracer
as for Talon, they’re not on the council so they don’t make the decisions
But Sombra might have some soft power because of her skills and knowledge
Widowmaker is just a weapon
worthy rose
is sigma like widowmaker, just a weapon
iron plume
To them, yes
iron plume
it’s not any real-world mental illness
it’s an effect the black hole had on him in some way
from what we’ve heard from the devs, it’s not split personality
worthy rose
Protagonist is your main or leading character
Antagonist are the people who go against them
Soldier is the leading character in his revenge story but a supporting character in the overall narrative
pliant sparrow
Everyone is the protagonist of their story
worthy rose
No I mean that literally
Chu designed the characters so that they would all feel like main characters
lament prawn
every hero gets the... hero treatment
so all heroes feel just as relevant as the other when looking at it from the roster/cast perspective
none of the heroes feel hollow or filler
limpid agate
@worthy rose Soldier 76 was the protagonist of the history of Overwatch. But we never got that story. Our story started with Tracer, who is our protagonist alongside Winston.
But he does have his own story arc with Ana that is rather sizeable in the present day
Old Soldiers -> Bastet -> Valkyrie
You can tack on Legacy too for stuff that happened before Old Soldiers
!!shitposting @worthy rose
twilit nacelleBOT
@worthy rose Shitposting will result in a loss of access.
ocean scaffold
i think soldier is an antihero
zealous stream
More like a vigilante
thorn ibex
What lore significance does Petra have?
nova tundra
gah im watching some old overwatch cinematics and its just
When are we gonna get a movieeee
livid elbow
I wonder if it is going to be like the original style as the shorts or just straight up animation like Castlevania
worthy rose
They said it would be sort of anime styled
so take that as you will
Blizzard cinematics and Netflix animations are both kinda badass
Netflix puts a lot of high production into their animated shows so we should have a more or less satisfying product
limpid agate
@thorn ibex At the moment, none.
Its only ties to anything is through Hamid Faisal
The archeologist in charge
They said it would be sort of anime styled
So like Castlevania
lament prawn
didnt it only refer to the diablo series as anime styled?
livid elbow
didnt it only refer to the diablo series as anime styled?
@lament prawn I thought so too
pliant sparrow
Want me to be that guy that says 'everyone is the protagonist of their story'?
worthy rose
atleast its an answer
grand wedge
For now the animated series is only confirmed for Diablo as an anime series on Netflix. Overwatch is getting a series but Netflix is not mentioned - not the style of the serie ( but probably on Netflix too it makes sense)
livid elbow
also, about Baptiste, I know that he currently has equipment from all the organizations that he joined, but I am wondering if he had any specialized weapons/armors during his time as a Talon Trooper.
grand wedge
You see that his gun is almost the same in his origin story ( with Mauga)
livid elbow
@grand wedge I also remember in the Origin story video he has a regular Talon rifle, I think that image was when he joined talon on a special mission after they found him
grand wedge
Oh i couldn’t check ( I probably misremembering) but he was probably more a trooper yeah
limpid agate
@worthy rose I already answered that question.
Soldier 76 was the protagonist of the history of Overwatch. But we never got that story. Our story started with Tracer, who is our protagonist alongside Winston.
iron plume
watch those people proceed to not give a single shit about lore until the next writer's first big controversy
and then complain about them too
peak escarp
of course
they'll just shift their hate to the next head writer, and lament that they're not as good as Chu
white cobalt
Im not sure if Alyssa is gonna take Chu spot, she have been doing works at Marvel
peak escarp
she does freelance as well as write for Blizzard
we don't know who will fill the Lead Writer position
opaque tundra
dang bye chu
worthy rose
rip micheal chu
iron plume
yeah I like Wong but I doubt she'll be a head writer
they'll likely hire some more videogame-y person
limpid agate
I predict Andrew Robinson.
iron plume
yea
peak escarp
he also wrote a few of the origin trailers, including Sigma's
peak escarp
the only bad thing Andrew Robinson has worked on was Searching
limpid agate
I'm not a fan of Hero
But Matt Burns only short (according to the wiki) was Shooting Star. Robinson made some of the best shorts.
Rise and Shine, Reunion, Dragons
Also Infiltration
The Wiki doesn't list who did the museum short, Recall, Alive, or The Last Bastion.
The rest are accounted for
Might be detailed in the cinematic artbook though
peak escarp
IMDB lists Recall, The Last Bastion and Alive as Matt Burns as co-writer
James M. Waugh is the other writer on Recall and Alive, Jeff Chamberlain on The Last Bastion
I don't know how reliable IMDB is
worthy rose
whats searching
valid terrace
Comic
peak escarp
the comic about Zarya looking for Sombra
peak escarp
it has a lot of issues
worthy rose
i liked that because it has sombra
thats it
i dont read the comics
ive read that one
and the ana short story
and the egypt comic but thats it rlly
valid terrace
The Zarya one is widely regarded as the worst one
valid terrace
Ye
worthy rose
nice
valid terrace
Yup
iron plume
yeah
devout sable
oh, you've just been talking about it, too
valid terrace
Yeah just a bit ago
twilit nacelleBOT
If you are looking for people to play with, check out the various LFG channels:
PC: #lfg-pc-na-ranked
#lfg-pc-eu-ranked#lfg-pc-oce-asia
CONSOLE: #185665683009306625#lfg-console-ranked#633536790225092608
peak escarp
she doesn't
rez isn't canon
or rather, she can revive an ally that is injured/unable to fight, but she can't bring back the dead
this is what canon Resurrect looks like
Mei was severely injured
Mercy gave her a big dose of nanobiotics to heal her back to fighting condition
she even says the catchphrase from the game - "Let's get you back in the fight"
mystic summit
mei saying coool
peak escarp
I think being downed in OW2 is a better representation of how things work
mystic summit
so is alyssa wong the new lead writer now?
peak escarp
you get badly injured, but not killed
we don't know who will take over for Micheal
probably not Alyssa
peak escarp
they've got plenty of writers
they work on the animated shorts and hero origins
Andrew Robinson and Matt Burns are probably the most prolific
peak escarp
the release was pushed back to June
noble field
just hoping the new writer doesnt pull a J J Abrams on us and completely dick the franchise.
for some reason, i can see that easily happening.
peak escarp
I doubt it
limpid agate
That was also half Rian Johnson's fault.
Episode 8 was undoing Episode 7, Episode 9 was undoing Episode 8
They told 1.5 movies of story over 3 movies.
It might not have sucked if it were all Abrams (or all Johnson)
Im sure it will be fine
Blizzard games are used to multiple authors
Including OW
noble field
I just dont want any retconning
limpid agate
Im sure nothing important will be retconned anytime soon
peak escarp
I don't see anything that needs retconning
limpid agate
Then again
It took 5 years for Blizzard to retcon Illidan
And then another 9 for them to retcon him back
peak escarp
we probably won't see any major retcons unless they decide to scrap the lore and start over
like League did
limpid agate
Or if they pull an Illidan with someone
Like Reaper
Or Symmetra
They've done a few shitty things with WoW over the decade and a half its been out.
It is entirely possible they can do some big retcon to Overwatch.
Like making Reyes a piece of shit since the early days all of the sudden.
Or turning someone like Moira or Sigma into a mustache twirling villain for no reason
placid fulcrum
Michael Chu leaving is bad news
doesn't matter who comes next, it will still surely affect the story
time will tell if it will be for better or for worse
but it will certainly be different
because it isn't jsut random facts about the story and characters, there's themes too
one of the major themes of overwatch is family, which i love
I fear the next writer might move away from it
or the enxt writer will decide that overwatch has enough diversity, so from now on every new hero is a straight white american
peak escarp
I don't think that will happen
placid fulcrum
also, the new writer doens't really like tracer and winston. from now on, the focus will shift to D.va, because she resonates more with the younger audience
placid fulcrum
I have to say, the timing of Chu leaving is suspicious
peak escarp
it's likely the next Head Writer will be someone already on the writing team
so they know the story already
placid fulcrum
I really feel like the reason he left was because he was ina conflict with the other writers over the direction the story should go to
peak escarp
what makes you think that?
placid fulcrum
one of the writers for game of thrones left because of creative differences
peak escarp
and? how is that relevant to Overwatch?
placid fulcrum
and why would chu leave so close to the end of development of overwatch 2, where the story was the main selling point of the game?
peak escarp
people leave jobs for all sorts of reasons
maybe another company offered him a better position
placid fulcrum
in the creative industry, people generally stick to the end of their project before leaving
peak escarp
maybe he was done with the OW2 story, and felt like it was time for something new
placid fulcrum
unless they hate the project
peak escarp
the story is probably the first thing finished on a project like this
placid fulcrum
well, I hope you're right
peak escarp
it has to be done first so that the programmers and level designers know what to build
fringe blade
The next head writer will be Alyssa Wong IIRC
I believe she was hired back in 2018 as a protégé to Chu, and she wrote most of thr Baptiste and Sigma lore
teal meadow
Micheal chu left overwatch. Then what will become of the lore?
peak escarp
I think Andrew Robinson is more likely
teal meadow
I loved the baptiste story, so..
It's a big YES for me
peak escarp
I don't think she has the experience necessary
sly knot
pls zen lore
hasty surge
so Michael chu leaving would affect lore positively or negatively?
teal meadow
guys, i saw many people speculating about it, but it also makes sense......
They say Echo might be the pilot from retrobution
Makes sense since they are both pilot aircraft and called mcree "cowboy"
peak escarp
Andrew Robinson wrote Dragons, Hero, Infiltration, Reunion, Zero Hour, A Better World, Mission Statement, Legacy, Searching and Sigma's Origin Trailer
among other things
worthy rose
Chu leaving is kind of a mixed thing
I personally think it has potential to be good since Chu might not necessarily be a good writer but instead of a good world builder like george lucas
peak escarp
Bastet and Valkyrie showed that he's not very good at writing prose
but his worldbuilding was good
limpid agate
Makes sense since they are both pilot aircraft and called mcree "cowboy"
Probably because he's dressed up like a cowboy
Wong
Nah, not a chance.
She seems to be more of a freelance writer type of deal, since she also has ongoing projects with Marvel.
The two big candidates are Robinson and Burns. Both long time Blizzard story developers who have had their hands deep in Overwatch for a long time.
worthy rose
World building is just one aspect of writing but you really gotta sell the characters
Otherwise you get the weird amalgamation of like a character like Anakin Skywalker
I was getting bits and pieces of that with Mercy
hasty surge
I mean I always thought Michael chu was a good writer, or the consensus was that he was
peak escarp
sure, if you never read the forums, or twitter, or reddit
worthy rose
I thought he was adequate. Overwatch being his baby shows he is good at world building and design but that doesnt mean character personalities and such are his strength.
peak escarp
but everywhere people are mad that he doesn't put out enough lore, or when he does it's not the lore they want
worthy rose
George Lucas made a great world and designed an interesting mythos
But when it came to execution and was given 100% reign of hisnproperty
He showed he had little actual talent. (PT) Chu might just be the same way
peak escarp
comparing him to George Lucas is better than comparing him to JK Rowling
limpid agate
He is better at some parts than others
He was good at world building and in-game dialogue.
He was bad at short stories
Although now that I've said world building for the 6th time...
How much of the world was Chris Metzen, and how much was Chu?
Like Junkertown. Which of them made that world
Or was it neither, was it an artist?
peak escarp
I wonder how much Chu has written already for OW2
(just watch, people will gush over how much better it is, not knowing it was still his writing)
limpid agate
I wouldnt be surprised if the writing was done though
That's one of the first things that get done
Before it gets passed off to animation, casting, recording, implementation, gameplay testing, non-story features, etc
As well as excluding post-launch content
grand wedge
They said it was a full pve campaign so I guess they knew where they are going
noble field
@limpid agate this is true
white cobalt
I'm guessing there is a skeleton for OW2 and whoever is the next head writer is gonna take it and make some modifications if is necessary
hexed lotus
The reason the story is so bad in overwatch is because we don't know who the heroes are and who the villains are. In the game we all play on the same team so whenever we get a glimpse into the story cinematics or whatever, it breaks the story we know instead of building it
That and all of the lore is so fractured in distribution with comics and cinematics and weird blog posts
iron plume
we do know who the heroes and villains are
having them in the game has nothing to do with it
hexed lotus
Yeah because they had to straight up tell us who they are
Like first they push this whole rogue squadron that broke from Overwatch. Okay so they're the bad guys
But then they push this whole omnic crisis. So are they the bad guys now?
Who is fighting who?
iron plume
The omnic crisis was the first thing talked about and Talon existed before Reaper and Moira "broke off"
Yeah because they had to straight up tell us who they are
That's how stories work
hexed lotus
I think you took that too literally. Good stories, in my opinion, are shown--not told
iron plume
we're shown stories that explore the characters in shorts and the more story-heavy ones in comics
hexed lotus
Which is why it fractures the story a lot. I'm not saying it has to be, but it certainly confuses it
limpid agate
Give an example
Other than D.Va/Shooting Star
Because I agree that is really poorly done
hexed lotus
An example of how the story is fractured?
limpid agate
Sure
placid fulcrum
keep in mind that even if Chu wrote the full OW2 campaign, the guy that takes over after him can still decide that he doesn't like it and change it as he sees fit
hexed lotus
So I mean fractured in the sense of experience, not any particular interaction that isn't consistent across PvP and canon
So I guess what I mean is that we play as a team in Overwatch, and then we have teammates who are bonafide enemies
It just feels weird
limpid agate
It would be a pretty terrible game if I wasnt allowed to play Mei because someone on my team picked Widowmaker
hexed lotus
Like where else in all of entertainment do you have that dynamic?
Super Smash Bros maybe
placid fulcrum
wow has the horde/alliance divide and it doens't benefit the story
hexed lotus
Right I'm not saying we have to make anything consistent across PvP and canon. I'm just pointing out how awkward it is
placid fulcrum
it only causes people to get angry when one side is accussed to be the writers' favourite
limpid agate
There is no story reason for Johnny Cage to execute his daughter Cassie and replace her face with an Oscar. And there is no story reason for Widowmaker and Tracer to fight on the same team.
placid fulcrum
but I get your point
limpid agate
But in both examples, the game points fun at that with voice line interactions
They acknowledge its an impossible scenario, and make fun of it
That is a step above simply having them on the team and calling it a day
hexed lotus
(idk the story of Johnny cage)