and I agree with you about that
#lore-discussion
placid fulcrum
my beef was when you started going "oh, but people in real life are stupid enough to build ai's that will surely destroy the world! didn't they watch Terminator?!"
pliant sparrow
Who?
placid fulcrum
you
pliant sparrow
What
placid fulcrum
my point is - I assure you that nobody is currently either building or palnning to build an AI that would be capable of destroying humanity
valid terrace
A complex enough ai that can choose between thousands of options to pursue a goal may eventually attack humanity if it believes it is the best path to follow its programming
pliant sparrow
Ah, I was referring to the overwatch universe, not real life
valid terrace
As in ‘monitor these climate conditions and create a map to solving them using these parameters’
placid fulcrum
you can do that yourself, as a human
why haven't you nuked the ismalic state yet?
oh right - because you're unable to. it's not physcially possible for you
pliant sparrow
Because that would be very impractical
peak escarp
let's not go there
placid fulcrum
neither is it possible for an ai
valid terrace
Because, as a human, I feel empathy and don’t have a specific goal that would benefit from such an action
And I can perceive consequences
placid fulcrum
it's one think to program into an ai the ability to contemplate the use of weapons, and another thing to program into them the ability to actually get access to weapons and use them
those are two separate things
placid fulcrum
which is why i said that I can see bastions doing it
thankfully, nobody is building bastions in real life
valid terrace
Yet
pliant sparrow
A robot could if it was programmed to
pliant sparrow
But most robots aren't programmed to pick up and shoot a gun
peak escarp
that's the point we're trying to make
placid fulcrum
think about ai in overwatch
peak escarp
"if it was programmed with the capability" a robot could pick up a gun and start killing
pliant sparrow
Is it possible to get an algorithm so complex it becomes similar in complexity to genetic code?
placid fulcrum
they could be the most advanced ai ever, they could contemplate philosophy. but they would never be able to get out of the game, because they are coded to exist only within the confines of the game code
they can't jsut... decide to gain access to another game. that's not how this works
it would like a human deciding to cross to an alternate universe
physically impossible
peak escarp
we're talking about hypothetical robots with the same capabilities as humans
valid terrace
I still believe it was a spiteful exec of Omnica that gave the Omniums a directive to create new Omnics and prevent any opposition to such a plan
placid fulcrum
they can't and won't exist
do you know what the most ai in the world today is equivalent to?
a flatworm
peak escarp
what part of "hypothetical" do you not get?
valid terrace
That’s increasing every year though
peak escarp
it doesn't have to be possible
placid fulcrum
it taught itself to change direction after bumping into a wall, which is seen as a huge success. but it didn't "really" teach itself, it had help
peak escarp
this is just for the sake of discussion
placid fulcrum
I'm fine with discussin hypotheticals
pliant sparrow
Hypothetically could you recreate the entire genetic code of a human as an ai?
placid fulcrum
I'm just opposed to the part of the discussion where multiple folks here were bemoaning the fact that programmers are trying to create a somewhat human-seeming andriod
such an androd couldn't really doom the world
valid terrace
Genetics don’t translate to personality very well
pliant sparrow
As in sombruh main?
placid fulcrum
sure you cna recreate the code
peak escarp
nobody is saying programmers will do this or want to do this
placid fulcrum
in the same way you can recreate a fully functioning human but talking all the chemicals in the human body
which is to say - nope
pliant sparrow
Hmm
valid terrace
Essentially cloning at that point which does exist today
placid fulcrum
that's not the same
valid terrace
Not really an ai if you’re using genetics
pliant sparrow
Well, depends on what you see as cloning
placid fulcrum
humans are made from multiple chemicals. but you can't bgether then and make a humn out of them
so recreating a human genome, which btw, we already have, doens't do much into creating a human mind
valid terrace
It would be biological in nature, which I don’t see as an artificial intelligence, whether it’s man made or not
placid fulcrum
there's already biologicla cloning
valid terrace
Right
placid fulcrum
it's called twins
valid terrace
They aren’t ai
pliant sparrow
There's also something called mitosis
peak escarp
I think we've gotten too far off topic
pliant sparrow
But I'm not sure if that counts as cloning completely
valid terrace
On a cellular level, yes
placid fulcrum
ok, but let's back to overwatch
valid terrace
An ai in universe could try to stop humanity
pliant sparrow
Is winston treated as a citizen?
peak escarp
I believe he is
valid terrace
Yes he pays taxes
peak escarp
he pays Swiss taxes
pliant sparrow
Does he get groceries delivered
Or does he spend time fishing on the coast of Gibraltar
placid fulcrum
yet reaper claims winston has to live in hiding
placid fulcrum
unrelated, but today looking at the skins I noticed that one of reinhardt's skins says that he was leading the overwatch operation in king's row
peak escarp
he was the senior member on that mission
placid fulcrum
king's row was right before the swiss incident right? according to the skin description, he was still regarded as a hero at the time after his actions in king's row
pliant sparrow
Or was it something else that got him kicked out?
peak escarp
not right before
pliant sparrow
It was a bit before
peak escarp
I was the year before
placid fulcrum
but when you think about it... king's row wasn't an official mission
peak escarp
other missions happened between King's Row and the Swiss incident
placid fulcrum
and he was the leader
pliant sparrow
When was storm rising?
peak escarp
@pliant sparrow between Uprising and the Swiss explosion
placid fulcrum
was he still in overwatch during those other missions?
valid terrace
It was an unsanctioned mission
placid fulcrum
that's my point
placid fulcrum
if reinhardt led an unsanctioned mission, then it's possible that he was forced into retirement because to took the blame for it
pliant sparrow
Could be
peak escarp
at some point between Uprising and Storm Rising, Reinhardt led a mission that went wrong and was forced to retire
placid fulcrum
even if the mission was a success, it was still something thawould cause a diplomatic incident
peak escarp
most likely
placid fulcrum
the uprising is a king's row mission though
it's purely your speculation that the mission went wrong
pliant sparrow
Does sojourn have any cybernetic limbs?
peak escarp
well something happened and he was forced to retire
placid fulcrum
my theory is that nothing hapepend
peak escarp
I doubt they'd force him to retire if everything went right
pliant sparrow
Cant remember if she did In the picture she's in but I'm pretty sure she did in her reveal trailer
placid fulcrum
what happened is that the successful mission in king's row caused a major diplomatic incident
and reinhardt, being the leader, took the blame for it
pliant sparrow
Could be
peak escarp
if Reinhardt's retirement was because of Uprising, I don't think they would be dancing around it
they would just say so
placid fulcrum
why not? it's a mystery like so many tohers
they've been keeping us in the darnkess about many things
pliant sparrow
Could be he caused an injury or death of a team member
Or maybe he discovered something about overwatch
placid fulcrum
could be
pliant sparrow
Did he know blackwatch existed?
placid fulcrum
but my theory is equally likely
pliant sparrow
True
placid fulcrum
everyone in overwatch knew blackwatch existed
placid fulcrum
yes
thing is - there should have been repercussion against overwatch for king's row
a big deal was made about the mission being unsanctioned, at the time when blackwatch was disbanded over their own unsanctioned mission
pliant sparrow
Was blackwatch known to the public at this point?
placid fulcrum
so it makes sense that reinhardt would take the blame on himself, rather than risk getting the whole overwatch disbanded
yes, it wass
pliant sparrow
Ah
peak escarp
the difference is that Blackwatch's unsanctioned mission was to commit illegal acts, while the King's Row mission was to rescue hostages
pliant sparrow
So overwatch already had a very murky image to the public
placid fulcrum
it's no difference politically
a foreign army entered territory of another country agaisnt it's explicit will
pliant sparrow
Could've been they were banned from operating in the UK
placid fulcrum
that's an invasion, tregardless of any good motives they had
peak escarp
I still think that it wouldn't be a mystery if it was Uprising
pliant sparrow
Overwatch aren't part of a specific nation though are they?
placid fulcrum
remember how israel attacked those ships carrying humanitarian aid to palestine?
valid terrace
I’d argue that it’s marginally better than using diplomatic immunity to kill your rivals
peak escarp
the Devs like to keep things vague so they can add new things later
placid fulcrum
anyway my point is - overwatch should be in deep sh*t after the king's row mission
pliant sparrow
If the public found out you punished someone for saving your people from terrorists chances are that'd hurt your reputation with the people
placid fulcrum
yet they continued to operate afterwards, and reinhardt mysetriously was forced out and the devs are beign very vague about the reason why
not really no
peak escarp
also, Brigitte doesn't know why Reinhardt was forced to retire - if it was Uprising, she would know the reason
placid fulcrum
that's not how this works
pliant sparrow
Doesn't mean it'd hurt it a lot
placid fulcrum
overwatch was already in trouble for not respecting sovereignty of nations
pliant sparrow
Ah, I've forgotten the dates again
placid fulcrum
it doens't matter what they wanted to achieve in king's row and whether they succeeded
actions have consequences
and this si a major diplomatic incident of an organization that already had similar incidents in the past
pliant sparrow
Wonder if theres any dialogue I can find about potential consequences of the mission
placid fulcrum
that would be interesting
why would brigitte know the reason?
if it was political, reinhardt wouldn't like to talk about it
peak escarp
because she's his family
placid fulcrum
so?
she doens't know
it's a canon fact
so he doens't tell things to his family canoncially
why do you beleive he'd tell her in one specific scenario, but not in the other, when both would be equally touchy to him?
peak escarp
he wouldn't tell her in either situation
pliant sparrow
Hmm nothing is mentioned In any dialogue
peak escarp
but if it was Uprising, she would find out from other sources
like Torbjorn, or the media
placid fulcrum
the media already mentioned that reinhardt retired "in infamy"
brigitte is unaware of this "infamy"
so appearently she doens't read it
the media knows morw than she does
peak escarp
Sombra implies that the real reason he was forced to retire is different from the story the public (and Brigitte) was given
placid fulcrum
in fact, it's even more reason to believe that reason was political
peak escarp
it could be because of an undisclosed medical condition
worthy rose
I doubt it
placid fulcrum
ana doens't seem to beleive so
pliant sparrow
Hmm yep the uprising mission was definitely illegal
placid fulcrum
if renhardt was not fit to fight 6-9 years ago, how come he's fit to fight now, that's he's even older?
worthy rose
I'm under the impression that there was a serious reason for it that was entirely undisclosed to a lot of the members. Torbjorn's outrage about it being especially of note.
pliant sparrow
Probably so they didn't try to take the blame for it
Cant purposefully take the blame for something if you don't know what it is
placid fulcrum
what exactly did torbjorn say about this?
pliant sparrow
Only people I've heard mention it are brig, sombre and I think ana
Although I'm probably wrong about ana
peak escarp
in Honor and Glory Brig says "Papa told me, after so many years of service, they threw you out" or something like that
pliant sparrow
It seems it was against his will
But I'm not sure If that's just people theorizing
peak escarp
Mercy and Tracer discuss it during the Storm Rising mission
placid fulcrum
makes me all the more certain of my theory
pliant sparrow
I agree your theory has the most ground to it
placid fulcrum
officially, overwatch would claim that king's row was the fault of a rogue agent acting agaisnt orders
pliant sparrow
And it's very believable
placid fulcrum
that agent being reinhart
peak escarp
I don't think Jack would put the blame on Reinhardt
pliant sparrow
Jack probably didn't have much choice
pliant sparrow
Did the UN hold power over overwatch?
placid fulcrum
Jack took over Reyes' deserved spot, despite knowing he doens't deserve it
pliant sparrow
Jack was a much more important figure to the public I think
placid fulcrum
because it was expected from him
pliant sparrow
Reinhardt would be easier to throw out
peak escarp
Jack didn't "take" anything, he was given the position
placid fulcrum
he could';ve refused
pliant sparrow
Reyes didn't want it
placid fulcrum
he even allowed the statue built for him
pliant sparrow
He was the face of overwatch
peak escarp
Director Petras would know Jack gave the order
pliant sparrow
Director Petras?
peak escarp
because he was trying to call Jack about the situation
placid fulcrum
doens't matter. Jack said that Reyes should be the leader. But he still accepted the position. I'm sure he had reasons for it, but he still chose to accept something that he knew was wrong and unjust to a friend.
why not do the same to reinhardt?
maybe he even talked with rein about it
peak escarp
placid fulcrum
and they both agreed reinhardt taking the blame would be ebst for overwatch
peak escarp
not likely
placid fulcrum
I think it's liekly
but you're free to disagree
time will tell which of us was right
peak escarp
Reinhardt would not take the fall for something
placid fulcrum
if it meant saving overwatch from disbanding, I think he would
placid fulcrum
speaking of reyes
he stillneeds a reason for rebelling agaisnt jack
as of king's row, jack is doing what reyes wants and they're still friends
pliant sparrow
We're not sure on that
It may have been Reyes didn't like how much control the un was beginning to have on overwatch
placid fulcrum
but he didn't bomb the un, he bombed the overwatch headquarters
and he fought against jack, specificlaly
so jack did something, that reyes very much disapproved of
peak escarp
its implied that Talon had moles who took advantage of the fight and caused the explosion
pliant sparrow
Ohh could reyes have turned to talon as an organisation that helped beyond the law?
placid fulcrum
yet, in uprising, jack is doing exactly what reyes wants - leading voerwatch to fight in king's row
why turn agaisnt jack so suddenly?
pliant sparrow
We know talon at least helped people form baptiste's origin
placid fulcrum
but if he had reasons to believe that jack blamed the king's row mission on reinhardt to placate the public and petras, it could contribute to his dissatisfaction with jack's leadership
placid fulcrum
there's a huge missing piece of lore
pliant sparrow
Its ripe to use in gameplay
pliant sparrow
Preferable we'd get flashback missions in OW2 just to find out some of what happened
placid fulcrum
I'd be extatic
not even a flashback is needed. another comic, an in-game conversation, lots of things could give us a clue
pliant sparrow
Agreed
vale phoenix
limpid agate
!!shitposting @vale phoenix
twilit nacelleBOT
@vale phoenix Shitposting will result in a loss of access.
limpid agate
but if he had reasons to believe that jack blamed the king's row mission on reinhardt to placate the public and petras, it could contribute to his dissatisfaction with jack's leadership
What
pliant sparrow
Doubt reyes would've thought that
valid terrace
They were just looking for causes of the Swiss HQ debacle
peak escarp
dreamfisher thinks Reinhardt was forced to retire because he led the Uprising mission
pliant sparrow
Which is a very valid theory
peak escarp
there isn't much supporting it
frosty shell
I think dreamfisher has a point about the robots and emotions
Omnics clearly have emotions of a sort
Which humans wouldn't have built into them
However, given that they are adaptive robots they could've learned to have emotions
valid terrace
I think the peaceful ones adapted that way to avoid destruction when they started losing
cloud ermine
That reminds me, I heard a theory/canon that Null Sector joined some kind of God-program like the Iris.
frosty shell
There is no evidence at all that the Iris is a god program
valid terrace
That’s just a popular theory yeah
cloud ermine
Huh, my memory must be getting bad.
valid terrace
Null Sector only joined Talon and may have created or taken an Omnium
cloud ermine
I have the collector edition's book, and I think I remember it saying that the Omnic Crisis started when decommissioned Omnics suddenly turned back on and started attacking. So maybe this whole thing really was just Omnics wanting to get vengeance for being treated like trash and Talon is just helping them cause chaos.
valid terrace
That’s essentially right yeah
Null Sector believes that Omnics are superior to humans and are fighting to disrupt the status quo
Forcibly
frosty shell
Yeah
cloud ermine
And Talon finds that useful to help Akande plunge the world into "only the strong will survive" status.
valid terrace
Right
cloud ermine
I don't know what we were talking about in the first place-
cloud ermine
Wish we had more omnic origins, and even more heroes.
frosty shell
And Anubis is the only god AI known
And Chu said that despite what Pharah says in her comic, he's the only real "god program"
valid terrace
We’re definitely getting a lot of omnic lore with a big Null Sector presence and a hard focus on omnic rights
That’s because it’s not an official term
More of a nickname
But other powerful ai could and probably do exist
Maybe not with the mind control powers but high intelligence
frosty shell
Exactly
placid fulcrum
And Chu said that despite what Pharah says in her comic, he's the only real "god program"
could you find the source for that?
limpid agate
What he said was that it was a colloquial term.
What he wrote was less implying that he is the only god program in the world
Morethat
peak escarp
it was said on the old forums, so the link doesn't work anymore
A: "God program" is more of a colloquial term describing Anubis than a designation for a class of AIs.
Implying that god programs are localized to just Egypt.
The stuff that Pharah's team and the rest of the local Helix operatives are familiar with
Is how I interpreted it.
it was said on the old forums, so the link doesn't work anymore
It was also in his AMA
I know because I was the one who asked the question.
Me: Also, God Programs from Mission Statement have attracted a lot of attention from people, and I have seen them being used to explain away almost anything related to Omnics, such as the crisis, Bastion waking up, the Shambali, Null Sector, and even Ilios. Can we expect to see more regarding these mysterious programs in the near future?
Chu: There are some common incorrect assumptions about the functionality/existence/timeline of "god programs." In, Mission Statement, it's really used as a colloquial way to describe the functionality of the artificial intelligence in Mission Statement.
limpid agate
He also annoyingly dodged the magic question
But later confirmed magic doesn't exist in a different interview
limpid agate
But overall
The way I read his God Programs through these answers is
- God Programs plural exist
- Its just a local nickname
- Anubis is one
- They aren't a big deal -> They aren't a global presence -> They are limited to just Egyptian Helix facilities
peak escarp
from the way Egypt's economy collapsed after Anubis was quarantined, I would guess that Anubis was part of their infrastructure and was omniscient in a way
like a god
hence the name
placid fulcrum
he's being very vague about it for some reason
perhaps he didn't anticipate that people would see them as a big deal
peak escarp
probably
placid fulcrum
maybe the god programs just aren't that important to the narrative?
placid fulcrum
when exactly was doomfist imprisoned?
limpid agate
6 years ago
placid fulcrum
his fist is in overwatch museum, so overwatch must've been responsible for that
limpid agate
They were
You can see them arrest him in Doomfist Origins
Which takes place after Storm Rising
grand wedge
It takes place 3 weeks after they arrested Maximilien in Havana.
placid fulcrum
hmm.. so they possibly got the intel on his whereabouts from Max
how come doomfist killed vialli, but didn't mind maximilian?
peak escarp
not possibly
they did get Doomfist's location from Max
Doomfist probably knows that Max is still valuable, even if his allegiance is questionable
placid fulcrum
I wonder what was the "favor" overwatch was supposed to do for him...
peak escarp
(side note: I hate that "Chase the truth" tagline. There was no truth.)
worthy rose
The "favor" was probably something like a sentence reduction.
grand wedge
Oh i never thought of that !
peak escarp
it's Sojourn's name
worthy rose
It might be a last name
grand wedge
Sojourn Chase - it sounds weird but it’s a possibility
worthy rose
Didn't reinhardt's seat say Lindholm?
peak escarp
everyone in Winston's photo has a seat shown on the ship except Genji and Sojourn
and we know Genji's name isn't Chase
grand wedge
True
peak escarp
yes
loud fox
@peak escarp genji's seat is conveniently next to mercy's heh
placid fulcrum
what's even more conveneint is that there are only seats of current known surviving memebers
like... why would there be a seat for jack, the leader who was mostly sitting in switzerland doing managemenet things, but no seat for mccree, moira or reyes?
peak escarp
Jack and Ana aren't known surviving members
placid fulcrum
known to us
peak escarp
these are the people who were core Overwatch members
Reyes, McCree and Moira were Blackwatch
placid fulcrum
so was genji
placid fulcrum
I thought they all moved
placid fulcrum
then what was reyes doing in the room with ana and jack?
peak escarp
which room?
placid fulcrum
the one they were in when mccree was reporting to him
limpid agate
That ship is just the main field agents
peak escarp
he's still an OW leader, even if Blackwatch is suspended
placid fulcrum
so he should have a seat, if genji got one
limpid agate
Why
That ship is just the main field agents of the OW elite squad
Reyes is an elite. Hes not necessarily on the team
Same with McCree
They stayed in Blackwatch/Quit later
genji transferred
Sometime between Uprising and Storm Rising
placid fulcrum
because everyone gets a seat except for him and there is no logical reason for that. if blackwatch members didn't get a seat, then genji's shouldn't be there. unless the whole vehicle was created already after blackwatch was disbanded, but then it's strange for jack to be there, since he didn't get out much in the field
peak escarp
Genji has a seat because he moved to the main team after Blackwatch was suspended
placid fulcrum
if reyes didn't move, then again I ask - what was he doing int hat room with ana nd jack
peak escarp
Jack and Ana have seats because they probably started doing more field work in the last few years
because he's one of the leaders of Overwatch
Blackwatch is a subdivision of Overwatch
most likely, he was receiving a report from McCree, and called Jack and Ana in to see it
it's Reyes' office, not Jack or Ana's
we know this because Ana and Jack's offices are seen later in the comic
placid fulcrum
hm, good catch
weak granite
Overwatch is dead. Long live Dvawatch
limpid agate
!!shitposting @weak granite
twilit nacelleBOT
@weak granite Shitposting will result in a loss of access.
limpid agate
@placid fulcrum Whether or not Reyes is part of the Overwatch strike team
He is still the second/third most important person in the whole organization
After Jack/Ana.
There would be no reason for him to not be present
Regardless to whether or not Blackwatch was suspended
weak granite
Wut
thorn ibex
In Numbani, there's a news oulet mentioning attacks on a Siberian Omnium.
Is there any more info about this elsewhere?
frosty shell
Well, Zarya is fighting in that war against the Siberian omnium
So it's part of that war somehow
thorn ibex
So the Omnic Crisis hasnt ended in Russia?
limpid agate
Russia is facing the second omnic crisis
They won the first time
But the omniums mysteriously reawakened
limpid agate
In the case of the Omnic Crisis
They do
Or at least, that's how it looks in universe
The first mention we have of Null Sector and Talon are both post-crisis
And the first Crisis also started mysteriously and inexplicably
thorn ibex
I doubt the Crisis started just because.
Did every Omnium start producing war machines?
limpid agate
Yes
limpid agate
!!loreText
twilit nacelleBOT
Short Stories:
Bastet: https://bit.ly/2QuXHmM
What You Left Behind: https://bit.ly/2Fh7MRz
Valkyrie: https://bit.ly/2CF5JVE
News Reports:
Fading Glory; Jack Morrison: http://bit.ly/2f9TPq4
Experimental Weapon Stolen: http://bit.ly/2fMrKsj
Lucio's Synaesthesia World Tour: http://bit.ly/2flja2U
LumériCo: http://bit.ly/1XAJfd1
Overwatch is Back: http://bit.ly/1TAWebT
LumériCo Revealed: http://bit.ly/2e6P5oj
Portero Steps Down: http://bit.ly/2fk8Bes
Efi Oladele Interview: http://bit.ly/2miMZkT
Horizon Lunar Colony: http://bit.ly/2reMSKx
Attack on Helix: http://bit.ly/2tn45mk
Oslo Attack: https://bit.ly/2uHKXUr
Don Rumbotico: https://bit.ly/2VtzZKX
Documents:
Mei's Adventure: http://bit.ly/2fMxRg4
Torb's Letter: http://bit.ly/2HK4CWa
Venice Declassified: https://bit.ly/2Hs807B
Cuerva: https://bit.ly/2BHEqd9
Travel Guides:
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Paris: https://bit.ly/2GEyOoq
thorn ibex
It says the military campaign was launch immediately.
Couldnt be Talon though as Doomfist wasnt their leader then.
peak escarp
That is why it came as such a surprise when these defunct, dismantled omniums woke themselves back up and immediately launched a military campaign against all of humanity.
the attack came as a surprise to humanity
the omniums had been shut down and should have been dormant
they dont know why/how they reactivated
the omniums were shut down again after the Crisis ended, but some reactivated (some like the Australian omnium were gifted to the omnics as part of a peace settlement)
and since omnics continue to be produced (Zen is only 20), there must be other active omniums
frosty shell
Couldnt be Talon though as Doomfist wasnt their leader then.
@thorn ibex
Well, Talon may or may not have been around back then. While I agree that it's unlikely Talon started the Crisis, why couldn't Talon have started the Crisis unless Doomfist was in Talon?
Yes, Doomfist did make a deal with the unknown- likely Null Sector- Omnic, but that doesn't mean Talon could never have started a Crisis without him
limpid agate
The earliest chronological mention of Talon
Is Gerard being in charge of Anti-Talon operations
limpid agate
Yeah. That and Gerard are the oldest. We don't know which was older
Gerard was 8+ years ago. Sojiro 9+
bronze minnow
sad
static barn
old bramble
placid fulcrum
I just saw this video, and something occurred to me
at one point, the video mentions that two of the statues mentioned by Dr Faisal can be found in Talon headquarters in the game
and I remembered our speculation on whether that mysterious package from the art gallery was art or weapons
let's assume for a moment that it was art
Talon is gathering cultural artifacts from all over the world
seeing as doomfist plans to start a human-omnic war, that will presumably result in a large part of the world being blown-up, they're probably planning to preserve these cultural artifacts for the sake of future generations
because Talon headquarters would be the only safe place for them in the world
and then I wondered about that part in Bastet story, where Ana and Soldier are in a room filled with similar artifacts and they wonder where they came from and why they're there
but there is Talon activity in the area. So it might've been Talon agents that collected these things, for the same purpose that I jsut described - to preserve them throughout the war to come
what do you guys think?
placid fulcrum
for the sake of them evolving. but they would still need culture
thorn ibex
Thats probably most likely.
It's just a little strange for me that they'd put that much effort.
peak escarp
and then I wondered about that part in Bastet story, where Ana and Soldier are in a room filled with similar artifacts and they wonder where they came from and why they're there
@placid fulcrum they're Egyptian artifacts, because Ana made her base in a Necropolis
they were artifacts buried with the dead
placid fulcrum
also, i've been wodnering something
it's not "talon" that wants humanity to be in constant conflict. it's doomfist's personal goal. talon existed before him, and existed while he was in prison. so what does the rest of talon want and why do they think that going along with doomfist's ideas is the best course of action?
thorn ibex
How did he become their leader anyways?
peak escarp
he was charismatic and a good tactician
he rose up through the ranks because of that
and he had ambition
Adeyemi was a useful asset to Talon, but the organization saw far greater potential in Ogundimu, with his intelligence and his ability to inspire as a commander. While Adeyemi was content to profit from raids on Numbani, Ogundimu had a grander vision. This difference in aspiration would lead Ogundimu to kill his teacher and take on the mantle of Doomfist, along with the eponymous gauntlet.
you get a bit of that in his voice lines
limpid agate
And with that ambition, he took reigns and started steering Talon himself once he found himself on the council. They talk about that in Storm Rising.
peak escarp
"I know you can do better", etc
limpid agate
Then in Masquerade, he killed the former top figurehead Vialli, and became the new top figurehead
valid terrace
Wasn’t he on the top before he got arrested?
peak escarp
he was
valid terrace
Vialli was just holding his spot
peak escarp
but Vialli took his place when he was in prison
valid terrace
I’m not sure if that’s really an overthrowing all things considered
thorn ibex
@placid fulcrum Reaper's probably using Talon as a way to hunt down ex-overwatch members. Moira describes Talon as a benefactor so she may not care what they're planning.
Widowmaker's a brainwashed assassin so all she cares about is Talon achieving its goals regardless of what they are.
valid terrace
I think they meant the other leaders
thorn ibex
But Sigma's description says he's manipulated by them. I wonder that means.
valid terrace
All the talon heroes besides Sigma and possibly Reaper are willing to follow Doomfist regardless
thorn ibex
"Heroes"
valid terrace
That’s just the stand in for playable characters
Or at least my own and the game developers
noble field
And Sombra
valid terrace
Sombra doesn’t seem to have any qualms with Doomfist’s plan, it just isn’t her reason for staying
valid terrace
I meant more as to who is going to disagree with him, silently or otherwise
I don’t think Sombra really cares that much
His biggest opposition within Talon are the npc’s
valid terrace
Her story is speculated to go deeper with the inevitable lore dump
But her plot line likely needs more time to fully matter
noble field
How they're going to do a Chaotic Neutral character in a story like overwatch
this is true
noble field
I havent really paid attention to OW2 since blizzcon so a kinda forgot... Do we know how theyre going to go about the story?
are they going to release an average 20-25 campaign?
are they going to be like Diablo and add more and more story throughout time?
valid terrace
Personally I think it’s going to be the second
They said it’ll be comparable to the pvp content which regularly grows
noble field
comparable as in theyll add in just as much stuff as they will PvP?
valid terrace
As in instead of the old hero map hero rotation per season
They might do hero map mission hero
Or something along those lines
noble field
Hmm
valid terrace
We don’t know much as of yet
noble field
Ok well. I really hope theyre not going to be lazy af with the stories
valid terrace
So that’s just my guess based on their previous release cycle
The hero missions maybe, we don’t know the extent of lore in those yet
noble field
Theres a lot of things i want to see in the story but at the same time im keeping my expectations incredibly low
valid terrace
I’m sure the campaign will be great but I don’t know about it’s claimed replay ability
noble field
Yes same
grand wedge
@thorn ibex Michael Chu said they put Sigma working in a lab somewhere... so they are probably using his research for their own purpose without him knowing.
“There are other groups that make up Talon,” adds Chu. “Especially for someone like Sigma, I imagine they set him up with his own lab somewhere. So he’s not like... walking down the hallway, bumping into Reaper.”
pastel ocean
praying we get more moira lore in ow2
limpid agate
Maybe
I dont think she'll be too important though
But I wont rule it out
I think she will appear in the story, since she is on the council
knotty pagoda
Hoping we get more lore for everyone in OW2
astral marlin
I definitely want more lore for my boy Lúcio and for baps
flint sequoia
limpid agate
Zen is gonna be in OW2.
So is Lucio
Zen is currently in India for an unknown reason.
Lucio looks like he will be part of Overwatch for the whole campaign
peak escarp
I wonder which other heroes will get recruited as full members
I can see Orisa getting recruited
placid fulcrum
"Recruited" is a strong word, but I see Junkrat and Roadhog as siding with Overwatch more than with Talon
Not only because they'd hate the Null Sector, but also because Junkrat seemed genuinely excited at the possibility of working to save people, in his conversation with the Hyde Global guy
timid eagle
I can see Soldier and Ana continue to fly solo.
Jack himself said that he has little interest with rejoining Winston’s revitalized Overwatch, while Ana is just tagging along to keep Jack in-check.
frosty shell
I doubt OW would accept help from Hog and Rat
placid fulcrum
They might do it in a enemy-of-enemy way
limpid agate
Heroes I think will not be in OW2's story:
Ana and Soldier
Ashe and McCree
Junkrat and Roadhog
Sigma
Hammond
Zarya
placid fulcrum
They're going to need all the help they can get. And all Overwatch activity is illegal and underground, so they're not in a position to be picky
placid fulcrum
Someday they must
placid fulcrum
Otherwise, why even create these characters and put them in the story?
limpid agate
We were told not all heroes will be in the campaign
placid fulcrum
Sure, I don't expect them at launch
limpid agate
Post-launch, sure
But not teaming up with Overwatch.
And I can see them fighting Null Sector
But not with Overwatch.
OW activity is illegal, but they still have heroic standards.
Junkrat/Roadhog are not heroes
placid fulcrum
Junkrat aspired to be though
echo elbow
I'm curious is there any lore reason why guys like that fight along with the good guys
limpid agate
The game isnt canon
echo elbow
Ah
placid fulcrum
With some guidance he could be steered into the right direction
echo elbow
yeah I was about to say doomfist is a bad guy kek
limpid agate
Some guidance in the past
I think he is passed the event horizon with his obsession of money and explosives
placid fulcrum
Idk, I could see McCree wanting to give him a second chance, same as he was given himself
lament prawn
i mean, they'll be regularly adding new story missions no? they could eventually involve most/all characters
but for the release missions, that makes sense
placid fulcrum
Also, was it said that not all characters will appear in the story, or that not all characters will get their own personal story mission? Because I assume that multiple canon characters will interact in one story mission. It's not like the character will be all by themselves.
teal meadow
Depends
graceful knot
zen won't
teal meadow
They probably will try to connect every stories togheter
graceful knot
zen will never get lore :(
teal meadow
Zen literally appears in a cutscene during the trailer
worthy rose
zen doesn't exist
limpid agate
!!shitposting
twilit nacelleBOT
Shitposting will result in a loss of access.
limpid agate
@worthy rose @graceful knot
graceful knot
soz
worthy rose
sorry
graceful knot
won't happen again :)
peak escarp
@placid fulcrum it was said that not all heroes will be featured in story missions, which I understood as them not being available to play
but every hero will be available for hero missions, which is the main replayable component of the PvE where you level up and get talents
worthy rose
I want to play as Talon in the story.
lament prawn
i think the 4 playable heroes will have somewhat equal spotlight in any given mission, so i imagine the heroes that are deemed "not featured in the story" wont be one of the four in any of the missions. we might get to hear them over comms in certain scenarios, or see them in intro/outro cinematics, but even for that they would need to be somewhat relevant to the mission
peak escarp
Jeff (or someone else, I don't remember) mentioned the possibility of having more than 4 heroes to pick from for missions - the example was for the Rio mission, Mei, Rein, Lucio and Tracer were the choices, but Mercy, Winston, Brigitte and Genji were also there
it would be really nice to be able to pick 4 heroes from 8, rather than be limited to just those 4
it would give story missions a lot of replayability
lament prawn
it would be nice, but imagine that mission in the form of a cinematic short or something, 8 heroes need to be relevant to that one mission, and cramming heroes into a narrative can be too much
as if the world is just those 30- something people
peak escarp
true
it wouldn't work for every mission
and maybe it's only 1-2 more, rather than 4 more
but having some choice would still be nice
thorn ibex
Or make it so you have to play the amount of heroes that were in the mission canon, then it'll allow you to replayed with any hero you want.
lament prawn
also it would be even harder to format that while ensuring all heroes were on the same team, granted it would be cool if you got to play as the heroes and enemies without turning it into pvp
thorn ibex
Sorta like the Archive modes
pure pike
Can anyone explain over watch black watch and talon
peak escarp
Overwatch is a global police force put together by the UN
Blackwatch is their black ops division
Talon is a terrorist organization that masquerades as a mercenary group
peak escarp
Overwatch was shut down 5 years ago, and was illegally relaunched by Winston recently
halcyon radish
overwatch 2:winston goes to jail
peak escarp
and here's a bonus for you
Null Sector is a faction of omnic terrorists who are allied with Talon and are launching a war against humanity
which Overwatch has decided to try to stop
halcyon radish
wait am i stupid or does null sector hurt other omnics
pure pike
Okay cause I thought black watch was also bad
halcyon radish
well
peak escarp
kinda
peak escarp
they're part of Overwatch, but they did the illegal stuff
murder, kidnapping, espionage, etc.
they weren't known to the public until they assassinated Antonio Bartalotti 8 years ago
by shooting him through a window
Null Sector wouldn't hesitate to harm omnics that side with humans
worthy rose
Black Watch getting exposed is one of the main reasons that OW shut down
pliant sparrow
It helped but it wasn't the main cause
worthy rose
Hmm that's a difficult question
Conflicting attitudes among the operatives
Public opinion slipping
valid terrace
That’s what I think as well
And those are tied to eachother as well as blackwatch’s discovery
worthy rose
I feel like there isn't one reason
but an amalgamation of many
there's an article on Battle.net about Soldier that references the fall, I believe
valid terrace
Although there were many individual events that led to the fall, as far as we know they can all be linked to Overwatch and the public having a growing rift between them
worthy rose
exactly, yes
valid terrace
That’s why new Overwatch with its ground up approach inspires hope and signals peace
valid terrace
True
I enjoy it but I mostly still play since other shooters aren’t as fun 🤷🏻♂️
Love the lore tho
halcyon radish
so happy the story is going to be one of the main focuses on the next game
a shame it wasnt already story driven in ow1
halcyon radish
im honestly most excited about the new heros and seeing how the story will develop with em in em
worthy rose
Me too!
wooden stone
has anyone ever noticed how this whole overwatch omnic thing is practically identical to animatrixs the second reinassance?
except for people hating the machines they coexist with them
after the whole omnic war thing
placid fulcrum
Yup
There's a lot of stuff that's very similar to other franchises. Marvel especially. But I'm enjoying it regardless.
Although the whole Soldier Enhancement Program seems like an utterly redundant ripoff of Captain America's backstory. There's absolutely no reason to have it in the story - Torbjorn, Renhardt and Ana are all old and still excellent fighters, so it's not like you absolutely needed to make Soldier a genetically enhanced human to have him fight in the game
And it never plays a role, ever. You could scrap it, and there'd be no change in the story, or even backstory, since both soldier and reaper were already in the military before the SEP
wooden stone
the entire overwatch backstory really seems like a sfw version of the second reinassance where the humans win
placid fulcrum
Even the omnics in dva's short look very similar to those floating machines in the first matrix
The inspiration is obvious and undeniable. But there's nothing inherently wrong with that. The Incredibles are obviously inspired by Fantastic Four, and Brightburn is obviously just evil Superman
peak escarp
And it never plays a role, ever.
it could be involved in Reaper's condition
and it certainly explains how Soldier could take a necrotic shotgun to the back and still be walking
placid fulcrum
there was a way to explain both these things without the need to rip off captain america - reaper's condition could simply be a perfectly natural cancer. And he was shot with Ana there, she's good at healing, she could've fixed him.
grand wedge
No she isn’t good at healing
She is a healer only in game but in lore she was a sniper
placid fulcrum
she has magical healing bullets and granades
and that's in the lore
she shot jack and he commented on the fact that his pain is gone thanks to her bullets
grand wedge
Yes but like - did you see how she treated his wounds?
That’s like using some epipen or something
Not involve medical training at all
placid fulcrum
so? still has magical healing bullets and granades
grand wedge
And soldier has biotic field too. But those necrotic wounds are not healing either with those
placid fulcrum
but they could have been
placid fulcrum
and that serves what purpose in the story?
iron plume
she managed to heal him up with her darts from normal bullets
placid fulcrum
what purpose, that there was absolutely no way of avoiding and it absolutely required ripping off another canon to give soldier a superhuman backstory?
iron plume
...what are you on about with ripping off another canon
soldier was literally always in the SEP
nor are supersoldiers remotely exclusive to marvel
iron plume
even if you presuppose that, so what?
placid fulcrum
my point is - it was avoidable
peak escarp
everyone copies everyone
iron plume
they're not using that part in the same way as marvel does
placid fulcrum
they're using it badly
peak escarp
even Marvel got their Supersoldier idea from somewhere else
placid fulcrum
at least in marvel there was a point
grand wedge
From all times people copied others
iron plume
There is a point
grand wedge
Look at ancient Greece
placid fulcrum
steve HAD TO be a part of supersoldier program, because otherwise there was no logical way of making him captian america and having him survive being frozen in ice for so long
iron plume
The point is that Overwatch and the preceding strike team was a hail mary attempt in the omnic crisis
grand wedge
They wanted to make super soldiers to win a war
iron plume
that's not even
what
that's not why steve had to be a supersoldier
of all the things
grand wedge
Against machine that don’t get tired ever
iron plume
you pick out cryostasis
which is used by non-superpowered people in this kind of fiction all the freaking time
placid fulcrum
he was also disabled
iron plume
that it matched the power of his body to the power of his will
it's not even the same kind of program
placid fulcrum
doens't matter
iron plume
you could say Jack ripped off wolverine with the same idea
placid fulcrum
my point still stands - it's redundant
iron plume
man heals
grand wedge
And so?
iron plume
Soldier is deliberately a take on a default-ish kind of superhero
placid fulcrum
no-Supersoldier jack would still be able to do everything that supersoldier-kjack has done in canon
grand wedge
No he couldn’t
iron plume
non-Supersoldier jack wouldn't be the glorified leader of Overwatch
grand wedge
How can you know?
peak escarp
he would not have survived that explosion in Dorado, or the Swiss HQ
grand wedge
This ^
placid fulcrum
was he chosen to be the elader specifically because he was a supersoldier?
peak escarp
no
iron plume
he was chosen for the strike team because of it
peak escarp
he was chosen to be the leader because he showed good leadership skills
Reyes was also a supersoldier
but not that good of a leader
placid fulcrum
was the strike team composed solely of supersoldiers? did he absolutely have to be a supersoldier to get there? nope
iron plume
it was composed of exceptional individuals
placid fulcrum
he could have been an exceptional soldier without superpowers
iron plume
There's plenty of good strong soldiers
placid fulcrum
fuck, he even has a self heal, making his superpower healing powers redundant both to the gameplay and the lore
iron plume
he only got the "self heal" after the fall
placid fulcrum
wThere was plenty of crusaders too, yet reinhardt still got in
iron plume
Crusaders are on the same level of exceptional as SEPs
just "made" in a different way
peak escarp
the UN wanted Balderich
placid fulcrum
they're superpowered?
iron plume
any of the knights would be way above a "buff army guy"
placid fulcrum
based on what?
iron plume
based on the fact that we see them fight together with those?
and without them the army can do fuck all but hide?
placid fulcrum
but based on what are they so much better than above average soldiers?
because they have better tech? soldier has his visor
iron plume
because they're stronger and skilled in wielding the tech
placid fulcrum
what makes them stronger and more skilled that no other human being could possibly do the same and compare?
peak escarp
why does this matter? what's the harm in Jack and Gabe being supersoldiers?
iron plume
...
it doesn't have to be "no other human could possibly do the same"
they could possibly be similar
but they aren't
hence them being exceptional
placid fulcrum
jack could've been an exception soldier
in fact, he's already exceptional even among supersoldiers
since only he and reyes got in
iron plume
he would have to be outstanding to be selected in the first place, yes
placid fulcrum
remove the "supersoldier" part and make it just "soldier" and everything goes the same way
iron plume
except for him dying in HQ if not before
placid fulcrum
jack morrison joined the strike team because he was an exceptional soldier. he survived reaper's bullets than to the combination of ana's healing tech and his own biotic field. there you have it
the not dying in the explosion part might be the thing
peak escarp
no ordinary human could have survived that
placid fulcrum
but did the canon state that his superpowers were the reason he survived?
iron plume
he survived reaper's bullets than to the combination of ana's healing tech and his own biotic field
firstly, no, he wouldn't if he wasn't super
and secondly, why are you treating it as if it's the reason they made him that?
placid fulcrum
says who, you?
iron plume
it was established long before Bastet
peak escarp
he didnt even use his biotic field
peak escarp
but he didn't
placid fulcrum
the writers had the ability to write him using it
limpid agate
The writers had the ability to write Reaper growing shadow wings
iron plume
in order to "not rip off captain america"
even though the "rip off" was established long before
limpid agate
That's not an argument
placid fulcrum
how is having him survive because he had 2 healing options available to him in that precise moment, be clunky?
in fact, the story would be better without the redundant parts
limpid agate
He didnt have the biotic field as far as we know
We see them only in Ana's Necropolis stash
iron plume
biotic field would be the redundant part
placid fulcrum
where do you think ana got them from?
iron plume
we've long known he's superfuman
placid fulcrum
soldier even says that helic hates him for raiding them
limpid agate
!!loreText
twilit nacelleBOT
Short Stories:
Bastet: https://bit.ly/2QuXHmM
What You Left Behind: https://bit.ly/2Fh7MRz
Valkyrie: https://bit.ly/2CF5JVE
News Reports:
Fading Glory; Jack Morrison: http://bit.ly/2f9TPq4
Experimental Weapon Stolen: http://bit.ly/2fMrKsj
Lucio's Synaesthesia World Tour: http://bit.ly/2flja2U
LumériCo: http://bit.ly/1XAJfd1
Overwatch is Back: http://bit.ly/1TAWebT
LumériCo Revealed: http://bit.ly/2e6P5oj
Portero Steps Down: http://bit.ly/2fk8Bes
Efi Oladele Interview: http://bit.ly/2miMZkT
Horizon Lunar Colony: http://bit.ly/2reMSKx
Attack on Helix: http://bit.ly/2tn45mk
Oslo Attack: https://bit.ly/2uHKXUr
Don Rumbotico: https://bit.ly/2VtzZKX
Documents:
Mei's Adventure: http://bit.ly/2fMxRg4
Torb's Letter: http://bit.ly/2HK4CWa
Venice Declassified: https://bit.ly/2Hs807B
Cuerva: https://bit.ly/2BHEqd9
Travel Guides:
Oasis: http://bit.ly/2iPTM4K
Paris: https://bit.ly/2GEyOoq
limpid agate
Bastet is your friend
iron plume
it's established that he can survive things others can't
placid fulcrum
that's not what I'm arguing
peak escarp
Ana probably stole them from Overwatch, or made them herself
placid fulcrum
I'm saying - is there evidence that soldier got the biotic field form ana? and even if so - what would prevent ana from having it with her?
aside from "because the writers chose to make it so"
limpid agate
is there evidence that soldier got the biotic field form ana
Necropolis
what would prevent ana from having it with her?
Why would she bring them when she has darts
peak escarp
why are you arguing that Soldier did something he didnt do?
even if he had the biotic field, he didnt use it
placid fulcrum
if ana's darts are as powerful as the biotic field that's even better - the dart would've been enough to heal him
great we have that settled!
even less reason to make him superhuman
peak escarp
we dont see him use it in either Old Soldiers or Bastet
limpid agate
She used the dart as a pain killer, but he still had the necrotic wound
We know he was super human to begin with
iron plume
the entire point of the long description of the wound is that the dart didn't heal it
iron plume
and that it wasn't enough
placid fulcrum
but it could've been
limpid agate
Through his description, we knew he was Captain America expy.
He was a super soldier
iron plume
it would've been a worse story
peak escarp
but it wasn't
iron plume
if it was
limpid agate
We knew that since 2015
placid fulcrum
but it could've been
peak escarp
"could have been" is irrelevant
placid fulcrum
no, it's relevant
iron plume
we wouldn't get the intimate moment in his recoverty
limpid agate
"Could have been"
Genji could have been wearing armor
Your argument is less than worthless
placid fulcrum
because the writer had multiple ways of writing the scene, without having to give jack a superhuman backstory
limpid agate
He already had one
iron plume
the backstory
limpid agate
Since 2015
placid fulcrum
and it's redundant
limpid agate
How is it redundant
worthy rose
The whole point is to show that Reaper's shotgun wounds don't heal with modern tech, without killing Jack.
iron plume
because by bastet it was long established
limpid agate
The big point of that was Reaper's necrotic guns. Not Jack healing.
placid fulcrum
it was you - not me - who argued that soldier had to have been made superhuman in 2015, so that several years later he would've been able to survive a wound that a medic mext to him could've healed him from if th writers wanted to write her doing so
iron plume
did you learn debating from ben shapiro or something
limpid agate
Also, Ana isnt a medic
peak escarp
he was not written as a Supersoldier so he could survive those shots
limpid agate
She says fairly often she is awful at first aid
placid fulcrum
my point still stands - the supersoldier program is redundant to the lore of overwatch. you could easily remove it and nothing would be lost, the story would still happen exactly the same way, the characters would still have exactly the same personality and goals
limpid agate
If you remove it
worthy rose
Sure, they could've made Ana heal him normally-if they wanted to say that Reaper's shotguns are normal shotguns.
limpid agate
Jack and Reyes would never join Overwatch
iron plume
^
limpid agate
Which is like... The whole point of the story
placid fulcrum
not really
limpid agate
Literally the two main characters of the entire backstory pre-Recall
placid fulcrum
after all, the only reason we know the wounds aren't normal is because they don't heal "as quickly as normally"
limpid agate
We know the wounds arent normal because they are necrotic
placid fulcrum
the exact same comment could've been made if his wounds were healed by the dart
limpid agate
If you don't know what that is, Google it. NSFW warning
limpid agate
They are not magical
peak escarp
they're nanobiotic
limpid agate
It is a nanobiotic healing tech invented by Mercy.
placid fulcrum
explain the science
worthy rose
Jack would have had no reason to survive the shotgun blast any more than literally anyone Reaper shoots later on if he was normal
placid fulcrum
he had the nanobiotic darts, so he'd be fine. maybe healing slightly slower than usual
did reaper's other victims have nanobiotic darts?
worthy rose
Did they survive the initial blast?
Jack is literally made to survive these sorts of things, as much as possible.
limpid agate
explain the science
Explain the science behind quantum gravity, proton decay, and protein folding.
placid fulcrum
And he could've survived them without the superpowers
the superpowers are redundant
worthy rose
I literally just explained this.
placid fulcrum
the only place they might've been necessary would be the explosion, but we don't know enough about it
worthy rose
If Jack survives without superpowers, why would mooks die when Reaper shoots them?
limpid agate
Let me explain this in simpler terms for you.
placid fulcrum
Doom, because they don't have nanobiotic darts, that's why
iron plume
And he could've survived them without the superpowers
the superpowers are redundant
limpid agate
Reaper: Shoots person
Person: Died
Reaper: Shoots superpowered person
Superpowered person: Doesn't die because super powers
worthy rose
But the biotic darts were applied afterwards.
iron plume
you're literally saying "Superpowers are useless, and that's why they're useless"
peak escarp
nanobiotic healing is commonplace in OW
worthy rose
They don't help against the initial blast.
placid fulcrum
Let me explain that in even simpler terms:
Reaper: Shoots person without nanobiotic darts
Person: Died
Reaper: Shoots person with nanobiotic darts
Superpowered person: Doesn't die because nanobiotic darts
placid fulcrum
ana shot him imeddiately after reaper did
placid fulcrum
and soldier literally comments on the fact that the darts have helped him and the pain is gone
worthy rose
Reaper: Shoots person without nanobiotic darts
Person: Died
Reaper: Shoots person
Suddenly normal person: Doesn't die, then gets healed by darts.
FTFY
placid fulcrum
how long does it take for reaper's bullet to kill a person from a non-fatal shot?
Taigavia, but that's not necessary
worthy rose
There's no reason that Jack shouldn't act like some random dude getting shot and immediately collapsing
peak escarp
death would be instant from even a non-necrotic shotgun blast to the torso
limpid agate
Reaper: Shoots person
Person: Died
Ana: Shoots person with nanobiotic darts
Person: Still dead, but body might be healing
Reaper: Shoots superpowered person
Superpowered person: Doesn't die because super powers
Ana: Shoots superpowered person with nanobiotic darts
Superpowered person: Alive, and body starts healing
I accidentally copy paster your shit post
I meant to copy mine
worthy rose
And shotguns are pretty lethal at that range.
placid fulcrum
but we don't know how fast this works
placid fulcrum
is shotguns are lethal, then the necrotic part is redundant, isn't it? remove it and the story goes the same way
limpid agate
The shotgun is lethal.
The necrotic part makes any chance of survival impossible.
The reason it is there is because of
!!loreHeroes reaper
twilit nacelleBOT
To learn more, please visit https://playoverwatch.com/en-us/heroes/reaper#story
limpid agate
His bio
The few bodies recovered of those he kills are pale, empty husks drained of life, their cells showing signs of intense degradation
placid fulcrum
so let me repeat - if it takes time for the necrosis to go through the person's body, then ana's darts, being shot immediatelly after reaper's shot, would've been enough to save jack even if he wasn't a superhuman
that quote tells us nothing about how long it took
limpid agate
That quote was not for that point
That quote was for
is shotguns are lethal, then the necrotic part is redundant, isn't it?
limpid agate
If you want to argue weapons playing roles in the story
Every weapon is redundant
Just give everyone a desert eagle
placid fulcrum
unless reaper just plain likes to leave bahind scary looking corpses, and there's no other reason why he uses these bullets
not every weapon is redundant
limpid agate
unless reaper just plain likes to leave bahind scary looking corpses
Based on what we know of his personality
This is probably the case, actually
He is a theatrical, gloaty bond villain
iron plume
he also knows he's going after overwatch agents
limpid agate
^
placid fulcrum
ana and widow are snipers, and their weapons represent that. they couldn't be using revolvers
peak escarp
exactly
peak escarp
their weapons are part of their character
limpid agate
He's never used it in the lore
placid fulcrum
if he's a superhuman with super-healing abilities, he doens't nbeed it
limpid agate
So its not redundant