Also unless Reaper went in to help release Doomfist, then he couldn’t have rescued Sigma on the same trip as I’m fairly certain those are his shotguns in the background
#lore-discussion
valid terrace
worthy rose
They would've been in different areas. Reaper and Widow break Sigma out, Doomfist punches his way out of another part, and they end up waiting for him after taking Sigma away.
It also makes it more likely that DF could escape without immediately getting shot by guards. It's more likely that they moved away to deal with Reaper and Widow, but got dealt with instead.
peak escarp
or that, yeah
worthy rose
mcree lost his arm because of bob
Michael Chu confirmed that BOB didn't do anything to McCree's arm.
ok
dam
then who did it
We don't know. Echo didn't know about it in Reunion, so it presumably happened between when Overwatch was shut down (Echo was implied to be part of Overwatch, and was probably packed away with a bunch of other leftovers from Overwatch) and Train Hopper, which is the next point that McCree shows up in the lore IIRC.
ok
@worthy rose what is this assassin arc thing that hanzo talks about to ana and how does hanzo know ana
worthy rose
First, the interactions are non-canon. They're what the characters would say to each other if they met, not necessarily what they have or will say to each other.
Hanzo: "Why did you give up the assassin's art? (...)"
Ana: Something about only killing when she needed to/to protect the team.
Basically, this shows that Ana only fights because she needs to protect people she cares about, not because she wants revenge or something. Hanzo wanted to know because (if I'm reading this correctly) he's lost his own purpose, and wants to understand what happened to change a person that seemed similar to him at one point.
@worthy rose Something like that. I'm not good at understanding people though, so Doctor Six or Jewvia might have a better understanding.
peak escarp
something like that
placid fulcrum
She has it in the comics, so yeah
valid terrace
It was another alias she took up to help clear Egypt
But she used it as a dark ops sniper type, which she replaced with Bastet the protector so the people could have a symbol of hope
potent sigil
Zenyatta should have lore
peak escarp
he does
potent sigil
I quit because my old laptop was really bad and I was stuck in elo hell
peak escarp
he's getting more in OW2
potent sigil
Yeah he needs more
OW2 I probably won’t buy if it’s a separate game but if it’s a DLC I will most likely buy it
worthy rose
It's not quite either, you won't be able to buy OW 2 separate from Overwatch but it will act as a DLC for people who own Overwatch IIRC
potent sigil
But aren’t Blizzard not sure what they will do. I might it should just be a DLC and you get the other variants for the skins like for genii etc. and it will also give you acces to the story. But DLC would be the smartest.
But they shouldn’t make it 60 because it would be a DLC and it will feel like your buying a completely new game
peak escarp
the PvE story campaign is supposed to be enough to fill a full game
I wouldn't mind paying $60 (or $80, with the exchange rate)
pliant sparrow
You guys pay $80???
potent sigil
I would never pay 80 just to play campaign
peak escarp
Canadian prices suck
peak escarp
Overwatch was $72.79
potent sigil
You got 
peak escarp
I know the exact price because I still have the receipt
iron plume
also the conversion rate
potent sigil
Yeah ig
peak escarp
$64.99 before tax
so it's mostly the conversion rate
I'd pay that much again to play a full PvE campaign that gave us the story
pliant sparrow
Britain has free healthcare and prices aren’t that high
placid fulcrum
weird
I bought it for $22
I guess the price has fallen down significantly since launch
valid terrace
I bought the Origin edition for I think 70 dollars and then rebought the legendary for 100
And I’ve bought it like 4 times for my friends
placid fulcrum
must be nice being rich
iron plume
the price was always lower for the base edition
valid terrace
I’m not rich I just don’t buy anything else
peak escarp
console version was $60 new
placid fulcrum
if you have $400 to spend on your friends, then you are richer than 50% of my country
hell, make that 75%
but back to the topic
peak escarp
I think the regulars here wouldn't mind paying that much for a story campaign
placid fulcrum
seeing the outcry over Reforged makes me wonder if they will decide to sell OW2 as a DLC after all
peak escarp
average users probably wouldn't though
placid fulcrum
I've already seen videos accusing them of scamming people for selling it as a full game. they don't need another scandal
placid fulcrum
the online content will be available for people with ow1, so the price is solely for the story mode
peak escarp
if you mean Reforged, pretty much every remake of a game is sold at full price
placid fulcrum
but overwatch is not a single-player game. it's a multiplayer fps
peak escarp
I don't see people complaining about the FFVII remake being sold at full price
placid fulcrum
they're not remaking ow1 though
iron plume
the outcry about reforged isn't because it's a remake at full price
peak escarp
yes, but for people who don't already own OW1, OW2 will include all of OW1
iron plume
it's because it's multiple levels of terrible
peak escarp
so it is 2 games in 1
placid fulcrum
reforged isn't what it was hyped up to be
iron plume
...because it's terrible
overwatch 2 is "hyped up" to be a reboot of the pvp plus the pve expansion
which it seems like it's shaping up to be
if they don't deliver on that, that's another thing
placid fulcrum
and yet, I've already seen videos accusing it of abeing a scam
even before the reforged disaster
iron plume
i've seen videos claiming mercy is the secret evil mastermind
peak escarp
those people must have never seen a remake/remaster before
lament prawn
the price will be worth whatever's in the PvE for me, but ill also personally include all the new PvP stuff in the price (even though its free for those that have OW1) because that's a lot of content to just be free
placid fulcrum
limpid blaze
i believe they call those videos, opinions
lament prawn
@iron plume i mean yeah we all know she made reaper so
placid fulcrum
how do we know how much content exactly ow2 will have?
lament prawn
it will have exactly jeff's idea of "full length campaign"
placid fulcrum
because reforged promised 40+ hours of remade content. it delivered about 20 minutes of it, presumably because they wanted it out asap, before it was truly ready
iron plume
of course he's one of those too lmao
peak escarp
it's easy to have kneejerk reactions before we know any details
but of course, once the game is out, they'll still find something to complain about
placid fulcrum
yeah, hence why I'm speculating
peak escarp
so these people will never be happy
placid fulcrum
if they decide to release prematurely, they will probably release it as a dlc, because releasing it as a full game will result in yet another controversy
peak escarp
if it doesn't live up to expectations, they'll be mad that it didn't
if it does live up to (or surpass) expectations, they'll be mad that this wasn't part of Overwatch at launch
iron plume
releasing it "as a dlc" would cause an even bigger backlash
because they explicitly promised that you don't need ow1 to get access to 2
placid fulcrum
how come?
hm, good point
so they'll have to really put a lot of work into it
to releas eit as a full game and not risk wrath of the fans
iron plume
if you just mean the price tag, we don't even know if it's going to be a full AAA tag
lament prawn
i have no doubt the quality of the missions and story will satisfy me, im just concerned about how many missions there will be
placid fulcrum
same
lament prawn
cause the amount of content that we were shown vs the speculated release dates makes it seem like not so full campaign, but i might have it all wrong in my head
placid fulcrum
keep in mind that they
limpid blaze
If the rio demo is anything to go off, missions might last between 15-20 minutes each
peak escarp
what speculated release dates?
placid fulcrum
they're forced to bring in constant growing profit
lament prawn
early 2021 ish
placid fulcrum
and their other games have recently not really worked well in this regard
peak escarp
anyone who thinks it will come out before the end of this year is misinformed
if it comes out early 2021, it will still have been in development for 2+ years
Overwatch was in development for 3ish years, and that included building a new game engine
lament prawn
no i mean, even early-mid 2021 seems just a little too soon considering how far they seem to have done. they might have much more done than we think, its just that at blizzcon i got the vibe that theyre mega early in production (no, im not assuming what they showed is what they have done obviously)
peak escarp
they said they have been planning on the sequel since Overwatch launched, and have been in active development since 2018
which coincides with the slowdown of new game modes for events
lament prawn
yeah that sounds like enough time for something big. its just a mixture of: no release window given, the progression system not being nailed down, the play-tested mission not being complete that made me feel like it was so early
peak escarp
it looked pretty good for something that wasn't complete
placid fulcrum
this is the state shadowlands had at blizzcon, and it's coming out next year
lament prawn
it certainly did, and ill gladly accept that as complete, its just the way they said they were adding more to it (not as in bug fixing, but actual parts and features, which isnt bad news)
placid fulcrum
they can pull it off, if they invest a lot of resources into it
though I'm glad they're not giving us a date yet, means they care about quality more than about getting it out soon
peak escarp
you can get a sense of their development process if you look at the Overwatch Archives panel from Blizzcon 2017
first they get everything working right, then they make it look good
lament prawn
ig my point isnt the fact that they dont have assets completed, because thats fine, but the fact that even ideas are still seemingly being thrown around for what they could add when that part should be early in production
peak escarp
lament prawn
im not complaining about anything here, just being confused about amount of content and how that will affect release date
placid fulcrum
didn't they say something recently about "going dark" because they're focusing so much on ow2?
lament prawn
i guess they meant going dark on OW2 details specifically?
lament prawn
i thought they meant going dark on OW in general, both in content and communication, but guess not which is great
peak escarp
I'm happy they didn't mean that
lament prawn
how likely is it that archives will be in march?
peak escarp
probably April, like previous years
limpid agate
We will probably get some other piece of content between now and Archives
Although
With the debut of the experimental card late Feb
We might be getting just that, rather than something else
peak escarp
I thought maybe they'd do another lore challenge in March
limpid agate
Probably
peak escarp
to fill the spot normally taken by a hero release
limpid agate
Put one of those out along with experimental to promote that you can earn it while playing experimental card
lament prawn
jeff did bring up the skin challenge to mention that we can still earn it in experimental
not that it means anything
peak escarp
it was weird that he used the Nano Cola Challenge as his example
lament prawn
ive heard that one being referred back to quite often actually, instead of any other hero or just "skin challenge"
was it the first one?
peak escarp
yes
lament prawn
probably why
they probably see it internally as an exciting test thing and so it stuck
lament prawn
wonder if we'll get a short story with the next one, whenever it happens
peak escarp
I hope so
peak escarp
and Nano Cola, which was a tie-in for Shooting Star
so far only the Bastion Brick challenge didn't have lore
iron plume
so, either lore or product tie-in
reaper with nerf guns when
lament prawn
seemed almost like a one-off thing with it being lego too
if it was the usual type of skin you'd see in anniversary or something, i'd assume they're making it a regular thing.
peak escarp
I wouldn't mind a nerf-themed skin
peak escarp
that would be funny
iron plume
I'm betting on reaps
but yeah dva getting one would be a neat joke
lament prawn
or mercy if they wanna go with the meme of her getting nerfed (plus her pistol is already basically that with the bullet velocity and the soft shape of it)
iron plume
reaper is the only one who has this though https://static-asset-delivery.hasbroapps.com/49353ef64445d631a90dfb959c9d085e06c08bc0/4444ce2a029541d097b1e59c03d9f5f3.png
peak escarp
lament prawn
lmfao
peak escarp
lol that mask is huge
lament prawn
im dyinmg
iron plume
that's amazing
grand wedge
I'm also hoping for something in march if they do'nt give us the archives sooner. Because april is pretty far with nothing to do in between - no event, no map, no new hero - even if they give us the cool Experiment card in march....
prisma wren
when is archives supossed to come out
limpid agate
April
prisma wren
so before aniversary?
limpid agate
Yes
scarlet field
zen has legs
limpid agate
That is very observant.
This is a discussion channel, not a random obvious fact dropbox.
zenith prawn
Have we ever seen any armored vehicles within the OW universe?
peak escarp
there was one in the Uprising mission
Zarya's gun was also supposedly taken off an armored vehicle
upper coyote
cuka
arctic raft
Zenyatta is hanzo and genji's master?
peak escarp
just Genji's
reef dagger
Question about Zenyatta
According to the creative team, orb of Harmony and orb of discord are not Canon
They're merely metaphorical for Zenyatta's charisma and perception
(able to soothe allies and draw out weaknesses and insecurities in enemies)
But what about Transcendence? How much of that is Canon and how much is metaphor?
peak escarp
it just seems like an unrealistic ability
whole forum
Plenty of the abilities are unrealistic...
peak escarp
I mean I don't see how they would explain Zenyatta turning into a glowing orb that radiates healing
whole forum
Girl who teleports, goes back in time of her physical self by a few seconds, a dude who floats and is invincible when an ability is activated, teleporting, a dude who heals people with music
peak escarp
abilites may be unrealistic by real-world standards, but they have explanations in-universe that make sense
Lucio doesn't literally heal people with music
whole forum
It's just an example..
limpid agate
There is no in universe precedent for Zenyatta working.
There is an in universe precedent for things floating
People often cite Zen floating as weird
There are literally rocks that float in universe.
It is not weird
whole forum
zenyatta reminds me of a monk or mechanical buddha
whole forum
o
I don't know anything about the lore
literally all I know is tracer has a girlfriend and I'm not even sure about that
whole forum
yh
peak escarp
well if you'd like to learn about the lore, check the pins
everything is listed there
shell jay
@peak escarp about Zen's healing, I heard that the orb releases endorphins in your mind that make you heal faster and that discord does the opposite, idk if any if the makes sense because I'm no scientist but its definitely something to think about
peak escarp
Jeff said both Discord and Harmony orb are non-canon abilities
lunar haven
Don't you guys feel weird about hovering cars? I mean, I know it's the future, but they don't have a real purpose
placid fulcrum
I've seen a a "no emissions car" joke somewhere in the canon, so that's probably it. whatever makes them hover also improves the environemtn
valid terrace
Also 3D driving
fresh tundra
Minimal wear and tear on the roads when the cars hover
Unless of course you live in a place where the roads have to be maintained regularly
The roads here are just a mess of potholes and whatnot thanks to snow and ice
shell jay
Roadhogs bike is like the only vehicle with wheels, every other vehicle in the game is floating, parked cars, Ashes bike, etc.
iron plume
pretty sure there’s an armored van in uprising or something like that
worthy rose
There is an armored car in uprising
placid fulcrum
I never noticed it
how roadhog's bike doesn't hover like so many other sin the game
it's a traditional bike
frosty shell
Low-tech
placid fulcrum
and it's not like he doesn't have the money for the technology, because I'm pretty sure the payload hovers
placid fulcrum
or maybe he just lieks it this way?
because, again, the payload hovers. but they were going to blow it up
thorn ibex
Does orisa have any lore significance?
peak escarp
she was created after Doomfist's attack on Numbani to be a new defender for the city
thorn ibex
Did she and Doomfist ever fight?
thorn ibex
Nice, I always thought Orisa was under-developed compared to all the other heroes.
peak escarp
well, she is only a month old
she doesn't have years of history like all the other heroes
all of her lore has to be in the future, and they haven't done much to progress the story yet
I expect we'll see more of her in OW2
thorn ibex
When you put it like that, it does make sense. I hope her and Bastion play a big role in OW2.
thorn ibex
Yay!
civic tapir
peak escarp
Torb already gave it new armor
(and the devs said they dont want to do any more reworks)
azure lance
Sigma's canon feet size?
opaque tundra
Yes
chrome coral
Did you know soldier is gay 
limpid agate
@chrome coral Did you know that water is wet, and shitposting will result in a loss of access?
chrome coral
Wait water is wet hold up
fresh tundra
I’m really interested in seeing more about Bastion so I hope him being important holds up
placid fulcrum
There has to be a reason why Torbjorn took him home
That said, I'm not sure if it would be wise to let him fight in the lore
What if he gets another ptsd episode like in the short and turns against his own side?
worthy rose
yes
grand wedge
It's in the comic Binary - Bastion isn't following its programming and Torb is curious about how/why he did it. So he took it in.
limpid agate
!!loreComics
twilit nacelleBOT
Comics:
Train Hopper: https://bit.ly/2vaOY0I
Dragon Slayer: https://bit.ly/2GpRZRk
Going Legit: https://bit.ly/2InZUkm
A Better World: https://bit.ly/2DeJGpK
Mission Statement: https://bit.ly/2UFLC5o
Destroyer: https://bit.ly/2XcYZ9G
Legacy: https://bit.ly/2DgM1jQ
Old Soldiers: https://bit.ly/2KLILTV
Junkenstein: https://bit.ly/2Is3WZ4
Reflections: https://bit.ly/2IoZQkr
Binary: https://bit.ly/2IzNvJy
Uprising: https://bit.ly/2UCymhE
Masquerade: https://bit.ly/2IzNTI0
Wasted Land: https://bit.ly/2DeKB9G
Searching: https://bit.ly/2Gh3jy6
Retribution: https://bit.ly/2XePmHG
Mini-Comics:
Return of Junkenstein: https://bit.ly/2Gqp7Z8
Yeti Hunt: https://bit.ly/2VPmxRI
limpid agate
peak escarp
Bastion makes Torbjorn think that maybe omnics aren't all murder bots, and there might be a way to change the ones that are
his heart grew 3 sizes that day
Torbjorn actually has a change of heart in that comic (or the start of one), unlike Zarya in Searching, who still hates omnics but tolerates Lynx
peak escarp
I'm curious to see Reinhardt's reaction to seeing Bastion
and his reaction to Torbjorn taking it in
placid fulcrum
Torbjorn took active part in designing omnics. Makes sense that he'd desperately look for some sign that his creations aren't all evil.
But there's something I don't get. Tgere are already peaceful omnics in the world, so why does Torbjorn put all his faith into Bastion for omnics being able to change?
Unless he believes that omnics are divided into good and bad, based on how they were programmed and there's nothing that could change that
frosty shell
Rein was willing to defend the human-omnic couple if that scene is canon
limpid agate
@placid fulcrum The Bastions were specifically built by the omniums with the sole purpose of human annihilation
The civilian omnics were not
This particular Bastion is the first he has seen that isnt trying to kill everything.
Not only that, it seems to like nature.
Which is very weird, given his experience in killing hundreds if not thousands of them back during the crisis.
Bastions, specifically
placid fulcrum
I suspect that the reason Roadhog isn't confirmed as Maori is because it would make him the only character of color not voiced by a person of his background.... or he's just not a Maori in canon
Also, McCree is voiced by a white guy
Hell, even most white characters are voiced by actors of their respective backgrounds
graceful knot
but like it's implied
placid fulcrum
not really. he also has australian aboriginal skin, which comes with a whole different, darker skin tone. plenty of characters have skins with chinese-styled clothing and it doens't make them chinese.
limpid agate
There is more to it than that
There's also his name
His way of speech
Expressions
Something about his home, his Blanket I think?
placid fulcrum
according to this reddit post, it's not actually done well:
and I find it weird that so mnay other characters have voice actors that fit their background, with the sole exception of roadhog
placid fulcrum
You know, speaking of voice actors, I've been watching some videos of ow voice actors playing their characters, and I'm not surprised there isn't much of that, because the reactions of people in voice chat to this was cringy as hell. Instead of using the opportunity to have some lore-related fun and jokes, the only reaction was either silence, or some very creepy, unpleasant stuff - mccree's va had to disable voice chat at one point, because someone was yelling "RACIST! RACIST! RACIST!" at him for the sole reason that he refused to switch to hanzo instead of his character. mercy's va only got some extremely creepy sex talk. the only time the vas had a good time was when the team was mostly just them and people specifically picked for the stream. that experience pretty much guarantees that none of us will ever get an opportunity to play with them, because of toxic a**holes like these.
limpid agate
The Overwatch wiki(a fan-run website) states his nationality as New Zealand but the official Overwatch info page has him listed as an Australian
Wikia is shit and does unsourced stuff like that
But
All that is said is that his base of operations is in Australia
Pharah being canadian is not listed in her bio
Doesn't mean she isn't Canadian
Moira is listed as being based in Iraq
She isnt Iraqi
tired ermine
I was 90% sure she was egyptian
limpid agate
Pharah is both
tired ermine
Oh
limpid agate
His VA
A lot of VAs arent actually the same ethnicity as their hero
Zarya and Mercy are pretty notable as speaking the wrong dialects
Jonny Cruz isn't Brazilian
Neither of the Junker VAs are Australian
placid fulcrum
pharah was originally only egyptian. they just picked the skin ebcause they liked it
limpid agate
The skin is irrelevant
placid fulcrum
they "amended" her ethnicity later because people weren't comfortable with the skin
limpid agate
If that was why they made her Canadian, that is dumb.
But as far as I remember
She was Canadian since Reflections
There is more to Roadhog being Maori than there was for Pharah being Canadian prior to Reflections
Oh theres another VA
That isnt the same race as her hero
Pharah
placid fulcrum
according to this psot: https://www.reddit.com/r/Overwatch/comments/4splx0/its_time_to_put_the_stereotype_to_rest/ Zarya's voice actress has very clsoe ties to russia
placid fulcrum
huh? how come?
placid fulcrum
Sombra's voice actress is a Latina and she spoke ina video about people criticizing her accent
limpid agate
Roadhog's va not being maori
placid fulcrum
her accent being bad doens't invalidate a person's heritage
limpid agate
should not be a point of controversy
The world is much bigger than the world you are familiar with
placid fulcrum
but it does stand out
limpid agate
Her accent is a pretty bad point
tired ermine
I mean he huffs paint. I'm surprised he sounds like anything
twilit nacelleBOT
For more information about the game, please refer to the wiki: https://overwatch.gamepedia.com/Hogdrogen
placid fulcrum
isn't it weird that it's called hogdrogen,a s if it was created by roadhog, but it's actually made by someone else?
was roadhog named after hogdrogen then?
tired ermine
Even worse its radiation
limpid agate
I wouldnt think too much about it
@tired ermine You didn't read that post at all, did you
tired ermine
It said its mixed with chemicals that counteract the radiation exposure you get from using it
limpid agate
No
That's not what it says
That's like saying cough medicine counteracts the influenza you get form using it
You are adding words that don't exist
tired ermine
Mb I had to read it a few times
placid fulcrum
I just found that the "don't forget, you're the one responsible for this" line did indeed exist in the game files
limpid agate
The interaction never existed with Reyes and mercy
placid fulcrum
the line existed though. it's interesting to wonder when it was supposed to play out
limpid agate
Whatever it was, not with Mercy.
placid fulcrum
soldier?
it's from february 2016. is there an earlier record of this line?
it was the time fo the beta, apparently
limpid agate
Not enough information. Could have been an old kill-Overwatch-agent line
Either way
Every single possible piece pointing to mercy having anything remotely related to do with Reyes
has been disputed, disproven, or discredited
placid fulcrum
pity. it would've been interesting if it were the case, even if she did it unintentially.
and it would've given reaper somewhat valid reasons for his absurd grudge against random overwatch agents
low hedge
What if Victor was still alive?
limpid agate
He is alive
low hedge
It was an awkward paladins reference sorry 😂
graceful knot
ew
limpid agate
!!loreOnly
twilit nacelleBOT
This channel is for serious discussion strictly related to the lore of Overwatch. Shitposting will result in a loss of access.
frosty shell
I actually tried to locate the first record of the Mercy line once
peak escarp
the one that doesn't exist?
frosty shell
The first time someone reported hearing it
peak escarp
and what did you find?
peak escarp
hmm
frosty shell
The thing is, a news outlet asked that user about the line later and he thought he heard it himself
peak escarp
seems like a bad telephone version of the "You tell me" lines
frosty shell
Yeah probably
peak escarp
when/if I ever get around to making videos for my channel, I want to do videos covering popular theories
and that's the first one I want to cover
valid terrace
Overwatch mythbusters
iron plume
Zarya and Mercy are pretty notable as speaking the wrong dialects
Mercy speaks the wrong dialect. Zarya is just not Russian
valid terrace
What’s wrong with Mercy?
frosty shell
Mercy doesn't speak Swiss German
peak escarp
Mercy is Swiss and should speak Swiss German
frosty shell
Just regular German German
peak escarp
Lucie Pohl is German and speaks German German
frosty shell
However, her beta VA couldn't even speak German
iron plume
she speaks russian with an accent that someone who doesn't speak russian speaks
it's not a "wrong region" thing
peak escarp
she's Bulgarian, iirc
frosty shell
It'd be like if McCree's voice actor was Dutch
peak escarp
surprised nobody has an issue with Sombra (her VA is Columbian), but I guess she does a good enough job of sounding Mexican
peak escarp
probably
frosty shell
I do have headcanon lore explanations for Pharah and Tracer's accents
Pharah's being that she grew up all around and thus had a strange accent, and Tracer's being that it's a "Mockney" affectation
valid terrace
Also Tracer doesn’t talk like any normal person
frosty shell
Yeah, at least in the sense that it doesn't match a real British accent
peak escarp
I like the idea that Genji has more of an accent (and has worse English) than Hanzo because he didn't put much effort into his studies
whereas Hanzo actually studied and perfected his English
valid terrace
While he was killing people as a professional assassin?
placid fulcrum
Junkrat makes a line about "shrimps", although apparently an australian would call them "prawns"
peak escarp
he uses both
placid fulcrum
overwatch was never fully accurate
at least it's better than some hollywood films
frosty shell
No explanation for Torbjörn's or Lúcio's accent though I could think of
iron plume
except for that one takeout to takeaway change
peak escarp
that's the sort of thing that outsiders wouldn't think of
frosty shell
I don't think they've corrected the kanji on Cyberninja though
iron plume
Lucio's accent in what sense
peak escarp
but Australians would notice
frosty shell
Lúcio not sounding Brazilian really
valid terrace
He has been all over the world hasn’t he?
frosty shell
Yeah
valid terrace
Could be that
frosty shell
But that was just in the past year
frosty shell
Also, one of the phrases in Hanamura left some Japanese speakers scratching their heads, though it's not as wrong as the kanji on Cyberninja
(which say arrow sign instead of arrow)
竜頭蛇尾 is written on Hanamura, literally it means "dragon head, snake tail" but it's an idiom meaning "anticlimax"
Because "anticlimax" is kind of a weird thing to just write down, some wondered if Blizzard just wanted to find a saying involving dragons and plucked that one out
However, given that the Shimada clan's authority has petered out, it could be a punning reference to that seeing as they were associated with dragons
(Though I don't actually know enough Japanese to really make the call)
worthy rose
what do you guys think of the valkyrie short story?
peak escarp
I liked it
worthy rose
it would be rad if we got one of those fo characters without much lore
zenyatta, lucio
zarya
peak escarp
Lucio is going to get lots of lore soon
he appears in the Orisa novel, and gets his own mission in OW2
worthy rose
orisa novel?
peak escarp
it will feature Orisa, Efi, Doomfist and Lucio
worthy rose
i wonder what lucio is doing in numbani
peak escarp
he was on a world tour, so probably a concert
worthy rose
do you know if it's coming with a mini-event skin like dr. ziegler or if it's just it's own standalone thing
peak escarp
probably a standalone thing
worthy rose
9 wins to win a free orisa skin pog
probably not tho
i hope we get some zenyatta and zarya lore later since those characters kinda lacking
we might just have to wait till OW2 for those 2 to get lore, assuming zarya will be in OW2
peak escarp
Zenyatta lore is coming Soon™️
for sure in OW2
but maybe something sooner
all 31 current heroes will be in OW2
worthy rose
it must be long then lmao
peak escarp
but not all of them will be featured in the story
worthy rose
oh that's what i ment
peak escarp
they'll all be playable at least
worthy rose
sombruh
characters who i assume are unlikely to appear in OW2
hammond (maybe mentioned by winston)
junkrat and roadhog
ashe
hmm
peak escarp
McCree may or may not be in the story, depending on what his "other business" is
worthy rose
aww
mccree's lore is pretty interesting
so i'll be a bit sad
i wanna say baptiste
but then again
he's trying to help mercy
and mercy's in the OW2 trailer
aka with winston's team
so i think he'll be involved in some way
peak escarp
yeah
worthy rose
torbjorn rejected the recall but maybe he'll come anyways
sounds like a torb thing to do
peak escarp
seems like Brigitte and Rein will go talk to him
worthy rose
thinking about rein makes me think of that last scene in honor and glory
"i have been called. i must answer. always."
such a good scene
i should probably read the comics again
i forgot a lot of them
and downright haven't read some
valid terrace
The comics in general are even more stand alone than the rest of the lore pockets
Focusing more on character development than plot
zenith prawn
@peak escarp which of the comics were the ones you said were most important to the lore?
peak escarp
Old Soldiers, Masquerade
zenith prawn
Got it
shell jay
Which character will most likely come out next?
peak escarp
Echo is most likely
we know she's coming, and they didn't confirm her for OW2 like they did for Sojourn
shell jay
What about Junkerqueen? Jeff did say in the Christmas live stream what would Junkerqueen look like as a hero which I saw as a possible hint
peak escarp
anyone else (Junker Queen, Mauga, etc) hasn't even been confirmed to be a hero
we just know they have "big plans" for JQ, and that they still want to do something with Mauga
Jeff is well aware that people want JQ as a hero
so he said that during the stream to tease people (and he was playing with Junkertown legos at the time, so it was relevant)
limpid agate
My list of future hero expectations are:
- Sojourn - Confirmed OW2 launch
- Echo - Hero 32
- Hamid Faisal - Launch OW2 hero - In Story
- Sanjay Korpal - Launch OW2 hero - In story in India mission
- Mauga - Post-launch, within the first year
- Junkerqueen - Alongside the Scrapyard PvE
tardy crater
lmao
valid terrace
I think his image as the lone wolf would be muddled if he had another lone wolf with him
peak escarp
nobody does
valid terrace
Shipping is disagreeable in general
peak escarp
it's garbage
valid terrace
Noon before poon
tardy crater
Lmao
peak escarp
!!shitposting
twilit nacelleBOT
Shitposting will result in a loss of access.
tardy crater
Omg.... I can just imagine. hanzo next to a tree and his pet wolf.
It would be cute
just a hero who actually owns a pet
placid fulcrum
Sanjay has a boring design, so it's unliekly he'll become a hero
valid terrace
I think cute goes against his nature
tardy crater
When genji says hanzo needs peace
We can have a full animated short of hanzo finding that peace or whatever
lmao yes cute wolf scenes
valid terrace
It’s about him forgiving himself
valid terrace
Brig has a cat
tardy crater
well ye eh ig
valid terrace
Mei has snowball
tardy crater
Whose the kid?
valid terrace
Likely a prop tbh
peak escarp
it's just some random kid
tardy crater
Son confirm?????
peak escarp
no
valid terrace
I hope not
valid terrace
We have enough useless stand in children to track
tardy crater
True
valid terrace
And everyone begs for them to be heroes
peak escarp
they didn't
tardy crater
they were in a gang ofc
peak escarp
but Ashe might have unrequited feelings for him
tardy crater
like tough love
like the love where u feel like u hate them but inside it’s actually romantic eh
tardy crater
Hm
peak escarp
they had a white cat when Brigitte was younger, and now they have an orange cat
peak escarp
tardy crater
Heh we ain’t shipping brig hopefully XD
peak escarp
based on the number of stockings over the fireplace, I'm going to guess that Brigitte has 3 older siblings
tardy crater
Especially what’s going on with 76 and Ana tbh
that’s all I care XD
Does 76 finally find someone?????
lmao jk
tardy crater
Yep
If they gave him a girlfriend ima question if he is gay now XD
then again he is too old
Like 50’s
peak escarp
Ana wants to keep an eye on Jack because someone has to
frosty shell
The eye she has left
worthy rose
Wait so there’s an actual story behind this game right??
toxic flame
Im sorry if its not the place to ask, but what do socks on the fireplace have to do with older siblings? That sounds like a really random assumption to me as Im unfamiliar with the christmas socks tradition.
placid fulcrum
Not an expert on this tradition, but I'm pretty sure it's one sock per child?
So if there's multiple socks, that means multiple children?
Which character is this referring to?
frosty shell
Yeah, which one?
placid fulcrum
Oh, right, it's the picture with torb's family
placid fulcrum
I count 6 socks
Not enough for grandkids, too many for kids
Unless one died
Or Brigitte was adopted out to reinhardt, lol
placid fulcrum
Or they didn't expect rein and brig to make it on time
It could also be that only kids below a certain age got a sock
toxic flame
that would actually make sense. thank you
peak escarp
there's 6 stockings
1 for Torb, 1 for Ingrid, 1 for Brigitte, leaving 3 for her older siblings
we don't know how many kids Torb has, this was just a guess based off the image
knotty pagoda
If those are all Torb's kids and we're assuming Brig has 3 older siblings, that's twelve kids
toxic flame
that clarifies a lot. dont use social media much, so i wouldnt know. always assumed those are his kids. thanks a bunch!
frosty shell
Originally Blizzard seemed to say so too
They said "They're Torbs"
But Chu always meant them to be grandkids I'm pretty sure
peak escarp
the PlayOverwatch twitter got it wrong
frosty shell
Exactly
peak escarp
well
they didn't get it wrong, people interpreted it wrong
the question was "whose kids are those, Rein's or Torb's?"
frosty shell
Yeah, the original asker didn't consider grandkids
peak escarp
they are kids, and they are part of Torb's family
frosty shell
And we still didn't know Brigitte was Torbjörn's daughter
peak escarp
no but a lot of people had guessed
frosty shell
Yeah
I still think it seems likely that Brigitte was not originally planned to be related to Torbjörn
Especially considering it's a German name
peak escarp
but Reinhardt named her
if they planned that all along, then it makes sense that she has a German name
(although originally they pronounced it the French way - brijeet, instead of bri-gi-teh)
frosty shell
Yeah, the Rein thing is a good explanation for it
But the fact that they bothered to come up with an explanation for it indicates they went "wait - Brigitte isn't a Swedish name" when they were writing the lore
And I'm pretty sure nothing in Dragon Slayer suggested she was Swedish
thorn ibex
What is the payload in Rialto?
worthy rose
BRO! Sigmas origin story!!!
frosty totem
crates of artwork, I think
i am pretty sure its weapons
grand wedge
It comes from the museum - but what's really inside is a mystery - like the one on ROute 66 we didn't know what was inside until they opened it and revealed Echo....
limpid agate
Could be anything
Art
Weapons
Talon is interested in both
Museum could be real or a front or both
🤷♀️
peak escarp
art gallery
thorn ibex
Art paintings make sense but why would Talon steal some?
Arent they focused on starting a conflict?
limpid agate
Some members of Talon's leadership appreciate the finer things
Just check out the Rialto base
lament prawn
or they wanna sell the modern "art"
limpid agate
Or Antonio's house
As for Max, he also likes expensive things.
And laundering money
lament prawn
i doubt that a bit, unless the gallery is part of or partnered with talon
its realistically possible for them to do it legit, but idk if the writers would put that in as a talon thing to do
placid fulcrum
how do we know it's a talon base?
grand wedge
You have Talon guns downstairs (in the second defender spawn) and the last defender spawn is the council room (big Table vilain style like in the comic Masquarade with Talon logo) - Plus it was Antonio's house in Retribution
peak escarp
the artist on exhibit is omnic artist Leonora Botruvio
placid fulcrum
the wiki claims it's a reference to leonardo da Vinci
peak escarp
yes
placid fulcrum
you know what leonardo was famous for, other than his paintings? his weapons
peak escarp
one of da Vinci's famous works was the vitruvian man
which is where her name comes from
grand wedge
oh nice trivia!
limpid agate
His tank wasn't a war machine
Not his ornithopter or other plans
As much as Assassin's Creed tells you otherwise
peak escarp
also he never actually built them, they were just concepts
teal meadow
i'm italian and in the payload there's typed "poste"
basically it's just a delivery machine
placid fulcrum
I don't think you guys know the full extent of what he designed
there's an entire book published with his designs of war machines
hundreds of them
to be fair, most never got built indeed
but this omnic lady's might have been
do you see any sculptures in the talon base?
where would they even put one?
though I supposed maximilian would have an appreciation for omnic art
peak escarp
we don't see 100% of the Talon base
it could be in parts we don't see, or sent elsewhere
there's no evidence that Leonora makes weapons
tardy crater
talon base is somewhere probably in Africa sense doom fist is basically African
peak escarp
Talon has a base in Venice, Italy
tardy crater
Heh heh reaper anyone know what race he may be
I had some votes
From others
These are 3 races people said and voted
Reaper may be:
Filipino
Hispanic
African American
peak escarp
Reaper is an American of Mexican descent
tardy crater
ye I assume that but everyone still thinks something else XD
peak escarp
his last name is Reyes
peak escarp
also it was confirmed by the Devs that he's Mexican
tardy crater
oop
pliant sparrow
Didn't realise he looked like he was about to rob your house
placid fulcrum
lol, i know, right?
that cap...
he technically did unlawfully break into some guys house on that day 😂
worthy rose
Danggg he’s 50?!
placid fulcrum
correction - he was 50 at the time of Retribution
this was about 6+ years before the "now" in overwatch
placid fulcrum
also, fun fact - since overwatch takes place 60 years since 2016, rein would be 4 years old right now
placid fulcrum
kinda disappointed, to be honest. before I found out, I liked to imagine that he was raised by this futuristic mecha-paladin order. meanwhile, he's just a regular modern kid
placid fulcrum
that's unlikely
my friend lives in germany and she says it's a very unusual name
She also says it would usually be spelled Reinhard or Reinhart, not with a "dt" at the end
she also doens't like that he's portrayed as very much into the "honor and glory" in war. modern germany generally looks down on the idea wars being honorable, because they're unpleasantly reminded of the nazi slogans
the "veteran pride" is more of a US thing
grand wedge
he is 58 because retribution was 8 years ago
placid fulcrum
oh, good to know
grand wedge
Rein is 61 Sigma 62
placid fulcrum
remind me, do we know for sure it was 8 years ago, or is that an estimate?
grand wedge
Ana 60
yes - Retribution was 8 years ago - Uprising 7 years ago Storm Rising 6 years ago
The Recall is more or less present time
The Swiss HQ exploded around 6 years ago (so not long after SR) - and Overwatch officially disbanded 5 years ago with the Pertas act
placid fulcrum
do you think that some time may have passed between recall and overwatch 2?
grand wedge
Few months
I think doctor has a nice timeline about it?
We calculated that it was up to 8 months to a year between Recall and Zero Hour (I think)
placid fulcrum
nice, thanks
worthy rose
Wait so that would make rein not born than right?
Yet
Wait no he would be 2
Maybe?
I’m dumb possibly
grand wedge
He would be 4-5 years old - if the actual time is 2076
worthy rose
Oh so he’d still be 4
worthy rose
Nooooooo :((
grand wedge
so he would be 5 this year ^^
worthy rose
Well great now there’s no possible way that a rein could’ve been born
And even less so for a sigma
Unless someone down the road changes their name 🤔🤩
placid fulcrum
putting the overwatch timeline this close to out times was a mistake
unless they're planning on something that makes it crucial for these characters to have experienced our tmes
headcanon: reinhardt chose his own name upon becoming a full crusader
torb said in the letter to his wife that rein likes to come up with silly-sounding names
so it makes sense that he'd pick an unrealistic name for himself
pastel turtle
valid terrace
Or there actually is a Reinhardt out there but he’s one of a kind
Maybe why he has his own name
We can’t just have Mercy’s callsign be Angela
grand wedge
It’s an alternate planet Earth somehow. Heavily inspired so they can have the freedom to do whatever they want with it
frosty shell
I doubt he picked jt
peak escarp
@placid fulcrum Jeff said Zero Hour (and OW2) is set about a year after Recall
frosty shell
Reinhard is much more common than Reinhardt or Reinhart, yes
A name being somewhat rare doesn't make it a problem really
peak escarp
some people have rare names
peak escarp
it makes sense - from what I can tell, the lore we've gotten so far goes about a year past Recall
give or take a few months
grand wedge
oh Jeff confirmed that? I didn't remember, thanks!
peak escarp
he mentioned it in an interview, I can't remember which one
shy sundial
limpid agate
!!loreOnly @shy sundial
twilit nacelleBOT
@shy sundial This channel is for serious discussion strictly related to the lore of Overwatch. Shitposting will result in a loss of access.
iron plume
This is a lore channel, lfg is in the next group
knotty pagoda
Where did the giant omnic kaiju thing come from? The one that attacks Korea constantly?
Did it just appear one day?
And just decide "yeah, let's fuck up this country in particular"
peak escarp
it was built in the omnium that's in the East China Sea
Korea was the nearest target (although I guess it could have gone after Japan?)
knotty pagoda
So is that omnium on some sort of floating platform or is it underwater?
peak escarp
we know of omniums in Siberia, East China Sea, Nigeria, and one in Australia that went nuclear and got turned into Junkertown
there's also mentions of one in Detroit, but the source for that never got officially released so we don't know if it should be counted as canon
early sources mentioned that omniums were built on every continent
When Omnica Corporation revolutionized robotic manufacturing, it seemed the world was on the verge of entering an economic golden age. Their massive factories of automated construction machines and self-improving software algorithms were patented, marketed as "omniums," and installed on every continent.
knotty pagoda
So were the Terminator movies never made in the OW universe?
peak escarp
lol maybe
knotty pagoda
If it was, then clearly not many people watched them
peak escarp
people aren't very good at learning from the past
they probably thought there's no way the robots could go rogue
knotty pagoda
Didn't they think that in Terminator lol
I wanna get an official answer about this from Blizz now
peak escarp
you can try tweeting at them
they don't tend to answer a lot of questions
or ask on the forums
craggy valley
Well look at us in the real world. Terminator is extremely popular world wide and yet we're still tryna make Androids with human emotions
peak escarp
people are increasingly willing to let computers run more aspects of their lives
despite countless works of fiction that show computers taking over
pliant sparrow
It's because people think 'we know what went wrong in the films, we just wont let that happen in real life'
peak escarp
and then it happens anyway
worthy rose
People in charge tend to never believe they're wrong/evil
peak escarp
!!loreonly @worthy rose
twilit nacelleBOT
@worthy rose This channel is for serious discussion strictly related to the lore of Overwatch. Shitposting will result in a loss of access.
worthy rose
ah sry wrong
pliant sparrow
People who see a lot of money in the future tend not to think about what getting that money will cause
Just look at most oil based companies now
peak escarp
I can see why Omnica was able to build so many omniuns
placid fulcrum
or people are working with machines and automation and know full well that fantasy and sci-fi are firmly in the realm of fiction
peak escarp
a free/cheap labor source for everyone? yes please
placid fulcrum
the primary reason why robot apocalypse is impossible in real life is because it's impossible to fully replicate emotions in robots, on account of the fact that emotions arenot rational. they are a result of chemicals in our body that no amount of high tech can reproduce, nor would anyone attempt to do so
pliant sparrow
Workers you don't need to pay, care for emotionally, replace or worry about dissenting or revealing malpractice? Yes please
peak escarp
what does emotions have to do with it?
placid fulcrum
desires
peak escarp
robots in robot apocalypse stories usually don't have emotions
placid fulcrum
in roder to rebel agaisnt the humanity, or even form the desire to eradicate the humanity, a machine would first need to desire it
pliant sparrow
If a super intelligent ai is designed to perceive threats it will acknowledge humanity as its greatest threat as it is the only thing that can turn it off
placid fulcrum
how and why would it form such a desire?
pliant sparrow
That often causes it to rebel against humanity
pliant sparrow
It doesn't fear it
peak escarp
they take over because they see humans as flawed/weak because of their emotions
placid fulcrum
why would a mahcine care if humanws are weak?
you are ascribing emotions to the machine, desires
they dont' have any
pliant sparrow
That's not an emotion
placid fulcrum
they don't care if humans are strong or weak
they don't care if a human wants to destroy them
pliant sparrow
If a machine is programmed to perfect something that doesn't mean it desires to perfect it
placid fulcrum
they lack thedesire to continue their existence
pliant sparrow
It means that is it's purpose to exist
peak escarp
in many stories, robots take over because they see humans as inefficient or incapable of running the world efficiently
placid fulcrum
you'd literally have to program it to make destroying humanity their goal.
pliant sparrow
No you don't
placid fulcrum
because a machine, without being specifically programmed for it, couldn't possibly give a damn if humans are inefficient
pliant sparrow
Not really
placid fulcrum
then explain to me why would it care?
pliant sparrow
If a machine is designed to self teach it can give a damn about whatever it decides it needs to
pliant sparrow
If a machine is designed to complete an objective and humanity gets in the way of the objective it will have to remove humanity to complete that objective
peak escarp
humans: *program robots to make the world better*
robots: *make the world better by destroying all humans*
humans: no wait not like that
placid fulcrum
that's not how this works though
self-learning algorithms don't exist ina vacuum
a self-learning chatbot doens't have the ability to hack pentagon and nuke russia
pliant sparrow
If a robot looks at what causes the most damage to the planet and pinpoints it on humans then that's not the machine having a desire it's the machine completing what it's designed to do
pliant sparrow
How?
peak escarp
if robots are allowed to decide what "make the world better" means, they could decide that statistically, the world is better off without humans
placid fulcrum
I work with that stuff
robots can "Decide" what they want
they can't do anything about it, unelss they're specifically programmed to do this
placid fulcrum
I can buy bastions, who were specificlaly programmed for the purpose of war, to malfuction and atack allies. but just any random robot couldn't possibly do this. bob wouldn't be able to decide to do this
peak escarp
how do you know?
placid fulcrum
because that's how this works
peak escarp
we dont know what Bob is programmed to do
pliant sparrow
Bob's programming is unknown
placid fulcrum
that was an example
we're talking about real life
in rela life, a robot butler wouldn't be able to do this
pliant sparrow
Why is that?
peak escarp
we're talking about hypothetical robots with the capability of making decisions for themselves
placid fulcrum
let me put it this way
it's a famous case of alice in a chinese room
it goes like this:
peak escarp
they could decide to go on killing sprees
placid fulcrum
a girl named alice is locked ina room, with a small window
she was given a book, written entirely in chinese
she doens't speak or understand chinese
but she was given a set of instructions, which tell her that when someone puts a piece of paper with certain chinese letters on it, she must write down specific letters from her little chnese book and hand it back to the person through the window
alice has no understanding of either the letters coming to her or letter leaving her
she only knows that when a specific letter comes, she is to respond with another specific letter
peak escarp
this is a very convoluted analogy
placid fulcrum
but from the POV of the person on the other side of the wall, when they write something, alice responds perfectly. they think she's a fluent chinese speaker
that's how chatbots work
pliant sparrow
But wouldn't an ai such as that present in omniums be far more complex than a chatbot?
placid fulcrum
the self-learning algorithm of chatbots allows them to rememebr and choose specific words and sentences when someone writes something to them. a human asks a question, and the chatbot answers it
but the chatbot doens't really understand either the question, or the answer
pliant sparrow
Is there a limit to how complex a self learning algorithm can be
peak escarp
we're not talking about chatbots destroying humanity
pliant sparrow
An ai doesn't have to understand or care why it does something
placid fulcrum
because nobody is building sentient war machines
peak escarp
we're talking about hypothetical robots who are programmed to "make the world better"
placid fulcrum
people working on ai work exclusively on "companion" ai's. essenially a slightly more evolved chatbots
see, the problem with "makng the world better" is that it's impossible to program that inside the machine
peak escarp
and they decide that "make the world better" means "exterminate humans"
placid fulcrum
again, because of the alice in chinese room problrme
peak escarp
it's a hypothetical
placid fulcrum
how would you define to the machine what "better" is?
peak escarp
it doesn't have to be possible
placid fulcrum
Ai's don't understand concepts
pliant sparrow
If, in theory, a superintellignet military ai is programmed to also find out what does the most damage to the planet and stop that, and it discovers humans are the source of the issue wouldn't it then attempt to destroy humanity
placid fulcrum
ai's can only learn repetitive behaviors, patterns. not something abstract
nobody builds such an ai
pliant sparrow
They do in the movies : (
placid fulcrum
then criticize movie dierectors
pliant sparrow
Nah, I like terminator
peak escarp
they do in the fictional sources we see talking about at the start of this conversation
that's why the topic came up
placid fulcrum
not real life programmers who are sick and tired of people who think their advanced chatbot will doom the world
pliant sparrow
Also is this based on what our current limitations are with ai?
Is it possible things could change drastically in the future?
peak escarp
we were talking about why the OW universe let Omnica happen if certain robot apocalypse fiction still exists in that world
valid terrace
This is a universe where apes can fly and ghost people exist, why are machines feeling such an impossibility?
pliant sparrow
Because there could be a point where a program becomes so exceptionally complex it could be taken for a living thing