The three Deadlock guys are triplets - Zeke, Terran and PT
#lore-discussion
grand wedge
placid fulcrum
Oh, interesting!
On another note, I'm re-reading the comics and I noticed a strange line from junkrat in "going legit" about overwatch
grand wedge
It was at a panel Blizzcon 2018
placid fulcrum
"Bet they still want to play nice with those scrap heaps (omnics). Like that worked out for Overwatch"
What could he be referring to? Last we've seen overwatch prior to that was when they fought against the null sector. In fact, overwatch was formed to fight the omnics
His line implies that omnics were directly responsible for petras act in some way
But not fighting against omnics, more like fighting with/for them
Could thos be related to why echo was put into stasis?
grand wedge
They fought Omnics during the war - when thy were killing machines
placid fulcrum
And they fought against the null sector 6 years ago
grand wedge
Because they were terrorists
and killing people
and abducted Mondatta and the Mayor of London
placid fulcrum
That still is no reason for junkrat to imply that overwatch suffered as a result of "playing nice" with the omnics
placid fulcrum
I still don't see it
grand wedge
Exemple : Numabin was founded by Adawe - the UN undersecretary - the city of peace between Omnics and Humans
placid fulcrum
Why bring up overwatch in that situation. Overwatch isn't known for being anymore friendly towards the omnics than anybody else
grand wedge
there are a lot of places where Omnics and human could live in peace - and Overwatch was a peace keeping organisation
placid fulcrum
Still no reason to imply overwatch suffered for it
grand wedge
Maybe they should have killed all bots - maybe that's what they implied
and not be ok with them living among humans peacefully
placid fulcrum
All of overwatch's problems were caused either by humans, or by fighting against the omnics despite orders not to engage
If anything, junkrat should be commending them on choosing to fight there
His line makes no sense, unless there's something we don't know yet
grand wedge
there is a lot of things we don't know yet - so there is stil this possibility
worthy rose
there's a lot of open holes in the story. Overwatch in general worked to maintain peace and not all omnics are the same. All of Null Sector is made of omnics but not all omnics are Null Sector. Like I imagine before in King's Row with the new home/apartment place, that was an overwatch positive/supported endeavor
frosty shell
I imagine the in-universe name for Storm Rising would be "Maximillien's interrogation" or something like that
grand wedge
Winston recalled the agent and is bringing back Overwatch- but it's still illegal because of the Pertas Act (for now)
peak escarp
a lot of the "complicated" connections on there are because I had them as something else and various people complained, so I changed it to "complicated"
placid fulcrum
ah, that's understandable
peak escarp
seems nobody can agree on what relationships people have
when Reaper refers to Moira as a "friend", I see it more as a sarcastic remark, but others think it's literal
iron plume
I don't think Junkrat's remark is that deep
Overwatch fought the hostile omnics in the Crisis
after it they were diplomatic with the peaceful omnic communities
Overwatch also fell
Junkrat is omnic-racist so in his mind the latter two are connected and "that's why you shouldn't make peace with omnics"
valid terrace
Wonder how he interacted with Los Muertos when he went to Dorado
valid terrace
Weren’t they beating on an omnic in Hero?
iron plume
yes
but seemingly not because of him being an omnic
valid terrace
Huh
worthy rose
It is more of a sarcastic remark because Reaper doesn't look like the guy who has friends at all
He probably just means they are partners
peak escarp
Chu commented on it in a post on the old forums
lament prawn
"its just a bucket of bolts"
peak escarp
A: Los Muertos doesn't organizationally hate omnics (like, it's not in their mission statement), but that doesn't mean a member of Los Muertos (or a bunch of them) couldn't beat one up or dislike them for any number of reasons.
the group beating up the omnic in hero were clearly doing it because it was an omnic, disregarding los muertos as an organization
peak escarp
those specific Los Muertos goons are anti-omnic
but not every Los Muertos goon is anti-omnic
hollow needle
Do you think any Los Muertos members could be a playable hero?
That could maybe extend the lore on the Los Muertos
And we could find more lore on Sombra
frosty shell
Also, I imagine they say "it's just a bucket of bolts" to persuade Alejandra to beat him up
As Omnics are still likely seen as somewhat less than humans
worthy rose
who is alejandra
peak escarp
limpid agate
Do you think any Los Muertos members could be a playable hero?
Closest we will get is Sombra
worthy rose
is she the one who is saved by soldier 76 in the short in mexico
worthy rose
i hope story mode in overwatch 2 is good
clever turtle
Side note: do we know anything about the relationship between Sombra and Alejandra? Because I know if you’re on Dorado and you play as Sombra she can say “back home....I should stop by the bakery” or something like that
I guess I should say the relationship between Sombra and the bakery
limpid agate
She goes to the local bakery
Because its a local bakery
Do you go to the local bakery?
I know I do.
clever turtle
I mean I suppose so...but I don’t think that voice line is in there just because she wants some bread products.
But maybe it is and the devs are just trolling
limpid agate
I don't see that as trolling.
They're making a nod to the bakery, and indicating that she frequents it.
Which makes Alejandra recognizing her make sense.
Sets up facts
Delivers payoff
One of the few parts of Searching that wasn't a mistake.
limpid agate
Yes
Its a loose reference to Mists of Pandaria.
Because Panaderia looks like Pandaria
And Nieblas means Mists
limpid agate
It’s up to you and your friends to stop Null Sector, the elite forces of Talon, and other enemies of Overwatch from carrying out their plans.
Just reread this quote on the Overwatch 2 website
and other enemies of Overwatch
Makes me really think there will be a third faction.
Fingers crossed for Helix.
limpid agate
The one thing I will say in defense of Deadlock/Los Muertos.
Is that we have a lot of maps in the areas that they are active in.
Route 66, Hollywood, and Blizzardworld all fall under that area of the USA that looks like it would fall under Deadlock jurisdiction.
And the Los Muertos are known to be active in Hollywood/Dorado, leaving potential for Blizzard World and maybe even Rio, depending on how far south they reach.
But I still find all the gangs unlikely.
Especially 1-map Shimada Clan.
peak escarp
yeah
teal meadow
Isn't Helix a good organization?
grand wedge
it's controversial
Questions have been raised about the effectiveness and methodology of Helix, which in recent years, has greatly increased its profile as the world's security force. But after a number of high profile incidents, including the breach of a similarly top-secret facility in Egypt, those who have objected to the increased privatization of security following the shuttering of Overwatch will have been dismayed that Helix has requested, and been granted, additional funding by the UN to cope with rising threats.
frosty shell
I would say Helix is mostly good
They might be good enemies if we ever play as Talon
worthy rose
@limpid agate i think what they mean by that is that mexican company and vishkar
isnt helix good?
I'd go with Lawful from the DnD alignment system. They probably wouldn't actively support Overwatch, but they're almost certainly going to oppose Talon and Null Sector.
iron plume
We see some of the arguments against them in Mercy’s story
worthy rose
dnd?
iron plume
Boiling down to them being essentially hired muscle
Sometimes good guys need hired muscle too but let’s face it
worthy rose
whats laful from dnd
iron plume
It’s not the majority
Dungeons and Dragons
alignment is two-dimensional
Lawful-Neutral-Chaotic and Good-Neutral-Evil
worthy rose
ok
iron plume
Helix is (arguably) Lawful Neutral to Lawful Good-ish
worthy rose
in overwatch 2
id like to see
talon break up
in like this fight between
doomfist, reaper and widowmaker
and sombra, moira and baptiste
cause they are more of the
iron plume
Why would Moira be against Reaper
worthy rose
idk
iron plume
plus Bap isn’t in Talon at all anymore
iron plume
Speaking of
I can see another Talon mission enemy being the goons of someone like Vialli
who wants to take Talon in a more selfish direction but covered his ass better
in order to not just get bridge’d by doomfist and actually put up a fight
worthy rose
well the only one i would guess is sombra
do they know about the blackmailing between sombra and katya volskaya?
iron plume
Sombra wouldn’t need goons or put up a fight
she’d just fuck off and hide if she’s in danger
and yes they do
it’s in the beginning of Masquerade
Doomfist supports it
worthy rose
reaper of maximillian?
iron plume
?
reef dagger
I'm still of the opinion that Widowmaker both still loves Gerard and yet doesn't regret killing him at the same time. Her conditioning isn't breaking, it's simply working as intended
ebon void
Can someone explain me the lore of reapper, i didn't really understand it
You can answer me in private
worthy rose
What part of his lore don't you understand
ebon void
I know that he were in the army with soldier and then he join Moira's unity.
iron plume
it's not entirely clear
the given explanation we have is that he hates overwatch for abandoning him after the HQ explosion
ebon void
Ok thanks you all ! 👍✅
worthy rose
Actually I can easily imagine why he went rogue but I don't know if Blizzard ever confirmed anything
limpid agate
@worthy rose Lumerico doesn't have an army and exists exclusively in Mexico. Vishkar units can be merged with Talon through Sanjay
Helix would be enforcing the Petras Act to supress the vigilante squad of Overwatch
It's already their job to guard all of Overwatch's shit that they left behind
It would be the perfect opportunity to make the Petras Act mean something
The only other faction with a similar global presence is Vishkar, and like I said, you're more likely to see Vishkar units merged with Talon forces.
Plus, if we ever get Talon missions
We need someone for them to shoot at
Helix is an enemy to both Talon and Overwatxh
It's already established that they also don't view collateral damage in the highest regard. See: Mission Statement, Valkyrie.
silk reef
Did mei build the cryo pods?
peak escarp
no
silk reef
Do we know who did?
peak escarp
I assume they are just tech installed in the base incase they needed them
silk reef
Hmm
grand wedge
Mei is a climatologist - Torres and Opara where working in cryonics so I guess if someone build the tanks, it would be them - or supervised the installation
desert atlas
Makes sense
cause Mei wasn't really special until she built her little snow gun and escaped as the only surviver
frosty shell
I personally doubt Helix would be enforcing the Petras Act
They're not law enforcement, they're contractors
Though they might try to get Echo back
Or evict Winston from Watchpoint: Gibraltar if he's not there legally/has to be kicked out for illegally recalling Overwatch
limpid agate
They're contractors
That work for the UN
The UN made the Petras act
Who else is going to enforce it
pliant sparrow
echo isn't really theirs though
limpid agate
Or evict Winston from Watchpoint: Gibraltar
That's their base
As in, Overwatch's base
So Helix trying to evict Winston
Would be outright attacking Overwatch HQ
So we are back at enforcing the Petras Act
frosty shell
Each country's law enforcement would enforce the Petras Act
pliant sparrow
but even then some of helix would probably try to take down both overwatch and the other third party
frosty shell
Overwatch activity is illegal by default without UN authorization I'd imagine
limpid agate
I dont think law enforcement works that way
frosty shell
Why not in this case
And we haven't seen Helix do work outside of, well, security
As far as we know they're not a private army
limpid agate
They are quite literally a private army.
frosty shell
No they're security contractors
Which is different
They wouldn't attack Overwatch unless it was a base they had authority to defend
limpid agate
Would you say that the UN Bluehelmets are an army?
frosty shell
Sort of, but not quite
Them getting Echo back would be if she's Helix property
Which I admit is just a theory
limpid agate
attacks had left a swath of destruction, with large parts of the city still trying to
recover. I still had people in my camps who had been displaced or injured in the last
breakout. Helix was a peacekeeping force, but in my mind, they were little better
than mercenaries. They were paid to protect the interests of the government, not
its people: an unsurprising replacement for Overwatch. I should stay at the camp. I
should get everything in order and prepare to triage an influx of people. I knew what
I should do```Fair point
limpid agate
with their red and white masks were everywhere, pinning down the Helix soldiers in
blue```
They're even the same colour of SoldierBlue
frosty shell
If they're being compared to mercenaries they might indeed be mercs
Them being in blue might just be Helix colors
pliant sparrow
so do talon fight helix regularly?
and would talon be seen as a vigilante group by some?
frosty shell
It's likely
Given that Helix is in charge of the highest priority security sites
And Helix in Egypt might be working for the Egyptian gov't, not the UN
limpid agate
I know its Blue helix colours
Im just pointing out
Helix is basically the UN Blue helmets. Just like Overwatch was
limpid agate
?
limpid agate
We dont know if they existed back then
The earliest chronological mention we have of Helix is post-Overwatch
frosty shell
I'm not saying Helix existed back then
limpid agate
Being that they were assigned on Overwatch cleanup duty.
Watch their gear
Watch their outposts
frosty shell
I'm saying that they couldn't go on those missions
frosty shell
Watching Overwatch's stuff doesn't mean they can go on missions like Overwatch
limpid agate
No, so they wont do shit about Null Sector
Because its not their job
Their job is deal with the mess Overwatch left behind
frosty shell
No
limpid agate
Winston's Recall falls under that umbrella
frosty shell
Helix's job is to maintain some of Overwatch's properties
And maybe some properties by other authorities
limpid agate
Every single instance of Helix around the world, whether its America or Egypt, or the undisclosed prison Doomfist was in, was Helix dealing with ex-Overwatch shit.
desert atlas
yeet
limpid agate
The UN repeatedly makes Helix deal with Overwatch shit
frosty shell
Not going into the field
limpid agate
Why wouldn't they also make Helix deal with the Petras Act
frosty shell
When has Helix gone into the field?
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pliant sparrow
would helix be similar to the blackstone group?
frosty shell
Yes
limpid agate
frosty shell
Assuming that that's a military contractor
That's not in the field really; they were dealing with a breach at their facility
Which spilled over into Cairo
desert atlas
ah yes, the kill everything team
limpid agate
Your argument of the field is variable
Pharah's team was not the team that was posted at the facility
frosty shell
Yes but it was a Helix facility
limpid agate
It was a squad that went to raid the facility and kill everything.
That's field work.
You can also look at Valkyrie.
Where Helix was fighting Talon in open combat in the field of Cairo(?).
frosty shell
Talon may have been attacking Helix facilities
It's never said
Or certain parts of Cairo might've been cordonned off
And Helix was hired to guard those parts of Cairo
limpid agate
The facts we have are:
- Helix is a private army
- The UN employs Helix to deal with ex-Overwatch facilities/threats
- The UN has the Petras Act
- There was a breach of the Petras Act by ex-Overwatch agents in an ex-Overwatch facility using ex-Overwatch gear
So why would Helix not get involved?
And if they don't
Who would
Is it a worthless plot point that will be abandonned?
frosty shell
The local authorities would get involved
limpid agate
The "local law enforcement" isnt gonna do shit
Who would win in a fight.
A team of super soldiers
Or some swat
frosty shell
They'd have a UN obligation I imagine
frosty shell
And most nation's have their own armies
limpid agate
And what nation is going to declare war on Overwatch
So you are suggesting we will be fighting a specific nation's army instead of Helix?
frosty shell
Most, it's pretty small
We might fight Helix
They would be good enemies I must admit
I'm just saying there's little pointing to them being able to arrest Overwatch agents not fighting them
limpid agate
There is no viable alternative to Helix, unless Blizz invents a new enforcement faction purely so they could not use Helix
Which would be pointless.
pliant sparrow
why were talon fighting helix?
limpid agate
The choices are:
- Petras Act gets abandonned as a concept - No consequences, all the Recall/Downfall/etc is meaningless
- Helix enforces the Petras Act
- Some weird third option
frosty shell
Why would Helix be the only choice to enforce the Petras Act?
limpid agate
Who else would you pick
frosty shell
I know you've tried to explain
limpid agate
Local authorities? Great, which country's cops do you want us to shoot in game?
frosty shell
But we've never seen Helix used that way, with the possible exception of in Valkyrie
limpid agate
We've already seen Helix as the "good guys" with minimal care for morals.
frosty shell
Shooting Helix would be odd too
frosty shell
Unless there's a mission where you'd be penalized for killing them, which could be cool
limpid agate
Also, not everyone shot is killed.
frosty shell
I do think it's possible a country could maybe contract Helix to defend against Overwatch
limpid agate
We havent seen Tracer kill anyone on screen, for example
frosty shell
I'll give you that
limpid agate
And shes been in Storm Rising
If you don't have Helix do it
Your options are nil
And Helix doing it fits their image and appearances
pliant sparrow
think of them as the people generally known to do some bad things for the government but it's never confirmed to the public
pliant sparrow
i had a real group in my mind but i can't remember
limpid agate
And hiw does that happen
You would fight Helix trying to stop them from arresting Winston
pliant sparrow
like the SAS of the overwatch universe?
frosty shell
Yeah maybe
But fact is we've never seen Helix being put into the field in the kind of way you'd suggest
And in Cairo, the peacekeeping was an ongoing issue
Helix would have to set up against OW first
I am going to admit to you that I can definitely see it happening in the lore
But I don't think it's really consistent with what we've seen Helix's duties to be
peak escarp
Helix moved in to fill the role that Overwatch had been playing
zenith prawn
Who hired Helix?
peak escarp
governments
the American government hired them to guard former Overwatch watchpoints
and some other government hired them to guard the maximum security jail where Doomfist was kept
lean prawn
very powerful ai superweapon in Anubis
peak escarp
and the Egyptian government hired them to deal with Anubis
frosty shell
That's why I doubt they'd go after Overwatch agents
It seems more likely Overwatch agents would have to raid a Helix base
trim spoke
worthy rose
In overwatch,would some playable characters die?Or would all of them survive?
shell jay
most likely they would all survive although it's possible a playable character will die, my guess is Reaper, Soldier, Winston, or Doomfist
worthy rose
Hmmm ok
limpid agate
They said they are open to the prospect of character death, but it is incredibly unlikely to happen.
worthy rose
Which probably means that there is a real chance of it happening, but they don't want everyone to see it coming from a mile away.
peak escarp
it means they're not going to rule it out, but they don't have plans for it
limpid agate
They said it because its dumb to say "Nah, no one is going to die" in an interview
Leaving the possibility in the air doesn't remove the illusion of stakes.
worthy rose
No matter what plans they have, they would have to say that. As you said, they need to keep the stakes up. But they also can't say "it's possible" or something similar, because people are going to be theorizing about it until someone guesses what will happen through sheer luck, or everyone will be disappointed if no one actually dies. I think that statement was pretty much the only one they could make without causing some sort of damage.
peak escarp
but they did say "it's possible" and people did start theorizing about who it will be
limpid agate
Its possible. But its unlikely.
I'll rescind my earlier speculation on how the "death" will play out
I think that, if they ever kill anyone
It will be because the VA died.
Like Edna Krabappel.
placid fulcrum
The characters have been barely set up, it's way too early to even begin to think about killing any of them
worthy rose
Torbjorn is a goddess
visual phoenix
I've been thinking, before echo comes out do you guys wanna look into why she is so important? and why she was kept b the government?
I just wanna get as many ideas as possible to try and formulate a theory that makes sense
visual phoenix
then wouldnt mccree try and free every other overwatch robots*?
if the woman in that comic cover is actually liao, she's next to an omnic, I believe something deeper can be in there, related to liao maybe?
limpid agate
Echo isn't an omnic.
visual phoenix
then maybe that's a reason, what was she for then? she doesnt seem to be for piloting, and since she is a robot she must have a bigger purpose to exist other than, oh they built her and now she's being kept by the govenment because she was made by overwatch
limpid agate
That seems like a good enough reason to me.
visual phoenix
and since overwatch came to be during the omnic crisis (if I'm not wrong) do you think she was suppose to passify the omnics? or maybe be a weapon to destroy them?
limpid agate
We don't know how old she is
But she wasn't around during the crisis as far as we know
It's more likely that she is <20 years old
The crisis being 30 years ago
visual phoenix
but we know she's at least 8 years old, since mccree still had his arm 8yrs before the current timeline
limpid agate
He had his arm 7 years ago too
visual phoenix
so 20 seems to be a good estimate, her being pretty old gives mccree a reason to want to rescue her, she's a great friend and they probably went through a lot as teammates
limpid agate
Being 8 years minimum is not a safe assumption. We can assume she is at least 6 years old, but don't know much past that
She could be 6. She could be 20. She could be in between
6 is the minimum to be part of OW
visual phoenix
is there a confirmed ''date'' of overwatch shutting down? when did the petra's act come to be? 5 yrs before the game?
visual phoenix
because we can assume she was imprisioned for 5 yrs then, but if she's still sentient, like all the omnics why not let her live as a citizen? like all the omnics?
limpid agate
She is not an omnic
visual phoenix
but she's like them, she's sentient, has feelings
limpid agate
That's not even a racism point I was trying to make
Omnic is a specific brand of robot
Things like Echo or the Hyde Global security bots are not omnics
They are robots
visual phoenix
yeah, but it's like, if echo is basically a human with a robot body, she has the ability of making choices, has a coinscience, has friends feelings, if she didnt have a reason like ''she's too dangerous'' to be taken away than it's basically racism, because she's just like every other overwatch member, just with a metal body, so either they think she's too dangerous or they straight up dont want robots living as citizens
limpid agate
Its like... Say that there was a rally for accountants. Now, you studied economics, which people who dint study either think is close enough, but the accountants won't let you into their party. Accountants only, they say
Echo isn't an omnic.
It's not some anti-omnic sentiment
Because she isn't one
Though if you want to get into racism
We have never seen a single omnic member of Overwatch
Only other robots like Echo or the Training Bots
Which are not omnics
lean prawn
calling general purpose robots omnics is like calling disposable tissues kleenex
visual phoenix
but then echo is technically a ''general purpose robot'', she wasn't made in an omnium, which makes her not an omnic
limpid agate
Calling Echo an omnic is like ordering a coke and getting club soda.
It's still fizzy flavoured water
But it aint a coke
Its barely a soft drink
visual phoenix
but even not being an omnic she's still sentient, so they probably only let omnics in the society and though echo's choices were fabricated and locked her away
visual phoenix
I'm reference to sentience like humans, to evaluate your choices, think of yourself as a living being, yes chimpanzees are really intelegent, but I doubt they got to the level of philosofical though or something
then maybe she is completly fabricated, maybe she doesnt have feelings and the feelings are fake, just to make is seem like she's alive, while she's just an AI without thought inside
maybe that's why the government didn't consider her human enough to be a citizen
and took her chip away and locked her up in the egg that got the most likes on instagram
limpid agate
You keep using that word. I don't think sentient means what you think it means.
grand wedge
Again this fight about Omnic/robot?
visual phoenix
oh dammi, i'm an idiot
grand wedge
Think of it this way Kleenex/tissue paper Omnic/Robot
visual phoenix
I was saying sentience, thought it meant the same as consciousness, I means consciousness
grand wedge
The term omnic is used like we use Kleenex instead of tissue paper
visual phoenix
omnics are robots made in the omniums, that's all we know
for now
maybe there are more distinctions, but I dont know
maybe omnics are conscious robots that were made in the omniums, so echo wouldn't classify as an omnic because she was probably not built in an omnium, but still has a consciousness like omnics
grand wedge
Even if the robot wasn't made by Omnica Corp - it's ok to call them Omnics - because in the world of Overwatch - people use this term like we use kleenex to talk about tissue paper
Yet - Echo seems much more advance than the average Omnic - so I see why there is a conflict about saying she is an omnic or not
But does it worth picking a fight for that?
visual phoenix
I think omnic was a term that was expanded over time, in the beggining it was the robots made by omnica corp, but with the omnic crisis they started ignoring the differences between robots and looking at them all the same (as enemies) expanding the expression to all sentient robots
I didn't even mean to argue about her being an omnic tho, all I was arguing is that if she was conscious, with feeling, decision making skills etc (bascially a human) why lock her up? wouldnt that be as cruel as locking a human up in a solitary for being part of an organization that was once legal, but since it was made illegal recently he gets punished, while the others wall away happily
I just though sentience and consciousness was the same thing (english is not my 1st language, sry) causing a missundertsanding, sry for that
grand wedge
Well - cruel if she was conscious - but she didn't have her chip so she doesn't even know how much time have passed so....
visual phoenix
it's like tanking someone's brain away but storing the body 😄 for robots makes sense, but for humans is just gross
but if she's basically human wouldnt they let her live as a citizen? I mean, orisa doesnt even seem to have a consciousness at 1st (she even states it as following her programing) but she's allowed out while echo gets the most likes on instagram?
tho orisa must still have some kind of consciousness that can be developted throughout the story 😛
grand wedge
Orisa is gonna have her novel so just a few month to wait and hopefully we'll know more about her
visual phoenix
that still doesnt make sense to me tbh, there must be a reason for them to lock her away like that
without much reason other than, she was made by overwatch
also, since overwatch 2 will start around 1 year after winston presses the recall button orisa will be a year old, so we'll probably see a lot of changes in her attitude, since she's just a month old at the time of ow1 :/
another thing, mentioning echo's logo, it is confirmed that it is ECHO'S logo, made for her, it's just made to represent echo herself, but then why are there so many logos in the ow universe that are similar to echo's logo? like vishcar, I believe echo could have been really influential with her time on overwatch, Idk what she could have done tho, but since she could be that influential, it could make sense to lock her away, if so many people admired her for something she could easily get overwatch back together with her status as a ''weapon'' (in the coverment's mind at least) so they might not want to take risks with her? but I still dont know why she would need to be locked up if she was apparently just an overwatch ''employee''
just an idea tho :p
placid fulcrum
I thought Michael Chu confirmed on twitter that "omnic" and "robot" are interchangeable. Zenyatta and Orisa are both omnics, despite not having been made by Omnica
echo is definitely an omnic
visual phoenix
maybe what defines omnic is the conscience? i'm gonna look that up
placid fulcrum
as for why she's important, in the Pharah comic there's a line saying that Anubis is only one of multiple God-Omnics that overwatch was guarding. Perhaps Echo is another? Maybe every God-Omnic has different powers?
I think it's conscience, yeah. Junkrat and Roadhog don't consider the guard drones to be omnics
visual phoenix
maybe echo is a god program, yeah, but instead of controlling an army of omnics she stays in a specific body, or maybe she's so important because she can control omnics? like anubis? that would also solve why she was kept away, why would you let a freak with mind control abilities out on the lose?
even if echo didnt intend in controling any omnics the government wouldnt take any risks
but I believe it's unlikely, since what we've seen from anubis it can only control omnics to a ''zombie'' like state, not like echo, with full control and happy thoughts 😛
placid fulcrum
I don't think all of the god-programs have the same power
visual phoenix
but still a fun possibility to explore
placid fulcrum
Pharah's team was shocked to discover that anubis can control the omnics
they even had an omnic on their team that they took on this mission
visual phoenix
then what could echo's power be?
I doubt it's the explosions. because it requires a body
placid fulcrum
I don't know, but whatever it is, it would be powerful enough to classify her as a God-program
which implies it's extremely powerful
visual phoenix
and if she is a god program it's safeto assume she started as a program, bodyless
placid fulcrum
possible
athena, anubis and echo are all names of gods from various mythologies
athena and anubis are AIs, so echo might be too. but anubis did have a body in the comic, so echo can have one too
visual phoenix
maybe her ability is related with sentience?
if she is a god program she doesnt act like god programs, athena and anubis are much more...robotic...unhuman, they seem to be actually programed, and if echo ends up being a god program it's safe to assume it's related to sentience, or something related to her being different
placid fulcrum
athena isn't confirmed to be a god=program
she's just a bodyless ai
I feel like god-programs are called god-programs because they are extremely powerful. they could behave and look in any way
visual phoenix
or maybe echo's power is related to sound? (is there anything technilogy related that can be associated with sound/vibrations?) just exploring the possibilities here
placid fulcrum
anything is possible. all we know about her powers is what we see in the cinematic
visual phoenix
or maybe she's a omnium core? omniums are implied to be semi-sentient, what if overwatch were in a mission to destroy an omnium that was producing omnics during the omnic crisis and the greedy fat torb took something from the omnium and tampered with it to create the AI for echo? (seems really unlikely but still a fun possibility to explore)
placid fulcrum
that would be a cool concept
visual phoenix
effectlively making echo one of the mothers for omnics
but would she even know it?
placid fulcrum
also makes me wonder if junkrat's "treasure" is another sentient omnium core
visual phoenix
maybe we might see more ''echoes'' from other omniums
and maybe for a corny ending all ''echoes'' get together and stop nullsector
how many omniums are there? is there a confirmed number?
or is it vague? like multiple omniums, a lot of them, or something
we know 5! even more to support this idea, maybe they are going for a message of ''what make us human'' or something and each omnium core could ''represent'' one of the 5 basic human senses? echo is for hearing, one for taste, another for touch, smell and vision? eahc from the respective omniums in the east china sea, australia, nigeria, russia, and the united states
placid fulcrum
that would be awesome
visual phoenix
and maybe the next ''echo'' we meet with with junkrat
junkertown is an omnium, it would make sense that his treasure would be it's nucleus
placid fulcrum
it would be interesting to see junkrat finally opening his "treasure chest" and finding an omnic inside
would be funny watching them interact
visual phoenix
they might be different in designs, if every single omnium was a woman like echo that would be boring 😛
placid fulcrum
I feel like he and roadhog would have an easier time not murdering that omnic on the spot, if they had reasons to think of it as a female, lmao
visual phoenix
like, for the omnium that makes gwishins, make it a red ''echo'' with an animalistic shape?
placid fulcrum
which reminds me, in one of junkrat's early designs he was supposed to be an omnic himself... hmm...
visual phoenix
for junkertown I imagine that ''echo'' being of the sense of touch, because of the radiation maybe? (feeling the radiation or something) and being yellow and becoming friends with junkrat and roadhog and being partners in crime, it would be funny to see echo and that one interact
placid fulcrum
that would be the best thing
visual phoenix
the gwishin one could be the an interesting* one, where we get help from d.va to destroy it, but then turns out it can be a clumsy echo or a dumb one that doesnt know what she's doing and is accidentally creating robots because it doesnt know how to stop the process, lmao
placid fulcrum
it would also be an interesting plot, because of the story potential with having an omnic living with them right next to junkertown
not only would they have to grow out of their hatred for the omnics (character development!) but also protect their new friend from their former queen's wrath
visual phoenix
the current plot doesnt have much stakes, what is talon gonna do? if the stakes are to get all echoes before talon does, that would be interesting
placid fulcrum
yup
and it would be a neat way of bringing the junkers to the main plot
because at the moment, they have nothing to do with it
their doing their thing, overwatch and talon are doing another thing
visual phoenix
like, instead of refereing them as echoes let's just go with, the blue one (our echo/probably from america) the yellow one(autralia) the red one (china sea) the green one (nigeria) and the orange one (russia) if you want to make any changes tell me xd
the orange one would be a great way of getting zarya and katya volskaya in the storyline
placid fulcrum
Sombra needed Katya agaisnt this global conspiracy she discovered
a conspiracy to find and gather all "echos"?
visual phoenix
we can't say much about the nigeran one tho, maybe she's the one that gets caught by talon? creating stakes for all the other echoes
placid fulcrum
hm.. there was that weird glowing pink box in the train talon was after
we never found out what it was
visual phoenix
maybe the nigerian one?
mccree didnt want it, but he seemed to be interested* on the train, maybe he heard there was an omnium core in there and thought it might be echo?
but when it wans't he gave up
placid fulcrum
if he had a reason to suspct it was an omnium core, he wouldn't have carelessly kicked it off the trian for talon to take
it seems he was just coincidentally there
visual phoenix
maybe
or he's just careless and since it's not his friend he doesnt care?
but idk, mccree is weird
but if all echoes together were that powerful it would create some big stakes, I mean, talon can manipulate the ''pink'' echo AI for their side, and if they are that powerful they'd need the other echoes to defeat it and bring it back to normal
placid fulcrum
he's asking "what is that?" so he doens't know what that pink box was
visual phoenix
if talon did that to every echo tho, they could start they war they long for
maybe he thought thecore could be somehwhere else and didnt give the box much thought?
but mccree must have got the chip somewhere
placid fulcrum
he knew talon was specifically after the box
visual phoenix
or was it with him the whole time?
placid fulcrum
also the box doens't resemble echo's pod, so idk
placid fulcrum
maybe
visual phoenix
but still,mccree wouldnt be that careless with it if it was a core
maybe it was something to control the cores?
maybe that's why they had echo, they were trying to control her, and the box was a prototype of a controling device, and with the help of talon's scientists they might be able to complete the prototype and control the green echo?
and they were on different trains for safety reasons, like if someone stole echoes chip, at least they wouldnt steal the box and the body as easily, unless it was a team 😛
placid fulcrum
mccree didn't know what it was
could've been the core, could've been something else
visual phoenix
this is kinda going in the prediction side, but it would be such a fun storyline, if it's what I think it's gonna be, defeat robots, corny thing of, we stick toegether as a team, bad guys get defeated/arrested/redeemed, hapy ending
visual phoenix
specially exploring how the different echoes addapted to this new world
like they could even be based around basic personalities, like echo is the nice one, red is the clumsy one, yellow is the rebel one etc, but still make them similar
the best parts would be to see all the omniums interact with eachother, and it would give the ''big'' part on echo that their trying so bad to hype
placid fulcrum
keep in mind that we still don't know if there's more than one echo. it's purely a guess at this point
visual phoenix
but the echo hype is kinda failing, their like ''she's very important, youre gonna learn a lot about her soon'' and now it's 2020 and we basically know the same things, the only added thing is that she can shoot bombs
visual phoenix
blizzard really doesnt know how to hype things up
placid fulcrum
well, they're focusing more on gameplay than on the story
it's worked for them thus far
visual phoenix
if they gave like a twitter post with a omnium plant and it said like, omnium 'E.C.H.O' location america
it would take the community by storm
and kill some people too
ok now justfor funzies let's give these echoes some names?
placid fulcrum
stefan XD
limpid agate
What they added was sge will be main cast in OW2
placid fulcrum
ok, but seriously
limpid agate
And showed her off in combat
visual phoenix
Echo (sound)- blue
Ambrosia (taste) - deffenetly red
or maybe red is better as touch?
hm
placid fulcrum
oh right, there can't be multiple echos. because we know that 5 new heroes are coming, and they appear to be human
visual phoenix
but I mean, they could add just 1 of the 5 echoes
placid fulcrum
if they started introduced wacky omnic characters, people would want to play them
visual phoenix
if they are the same (abilitywise), they could just put the others as skins 😛
placid fulcrum
unless they die soon after being introduced
limpid agate
Why would there be 5 Echos
visual phoenix
it would be interesting to have skins for echo that change some of her voice lines
placid fulcrum
it wouldn't be easy to have multiple different characters as skins
you'd have to give them different voice lines
visual phoenix
@limpid agate it's just a fun possibility were exploring, you can go up and read it, cuz it's kinda long to explain
placid fulcrum
that's a lot of money and effort
visual phoenix
maybe theid fuse at the end creating an ultimate echo? like theid put together their ai's in our echo's body
and echo would be super powerful
placid fulcrum
that would be interesting
placid fulcrum
trouble is, echo is coming very soon, even before ow2
that's a short amount of time to introduce 5 new characters and have them fuse into 1
visual phoenix
I mean, she can come before ow2, then the redesign would come with all of them together
her ow1 look is her alone, while her ow2 look is the fusion?
not changing much, just making her design cuter and with 5 lines on her chest instead of one of course
placid fulcrum
that still doens't resolve the issue with having to introduce 5 new characters, giivng them storylines and them removing them
visual phoenix
yeah :/ but maybe they can have the same voice actress?
placid fulcrum
because, honestly, I'd care more about an omnic having wacky adventures with hog and rat, than about echo, who doens't really have a personality right now
visual phoenix
like the shortcut steven universe used lmao
their the same, they have the same voice
placid fulcrum
it's not the voice that matters, it's the lines themselves
because echo has a history with mccree, other omnics won't. so the voice lines would have to represent that
and that goes for every other character interaction
visual phoenix
but that would only be if they added the others as skins, if they did the fusion thing they wouldnt need to do that
visual phoenix
good to know your oppinion
limpid agate
The ones that arent, its still the voice of that character
Its optimal for gameplay as well
If you could just equip Balderich or OR-14NS to mask your gameplay noises
It would just be a frustrating mecahnic
While stuff could be cool
Gameplay clarity trumps that.
Its the same reason why Mei's snow is always blue (or whatever colour you set it to in the colorblind settings)
Rather than the color of the OWL skin you have equipped.
It would be a tedious addition that would cost a lot of money and overall decrease the quality of gameplay.
visual phoenix
but the idea of the skins was already scrapped for me, the ''fusion'' of the AIs would work best, it would still be the same echo, just need to redesign her like they did with every other hero 🙂
limpid agate
What are you on about
placid fulcrum
long story short - I loudly wondered if junkrat's "treasure" is actually an omnic like echo
visual phoenix
nothing? just if echo comes before ow1 she's bound to get a redesign in ow2 isnt she?
placid fulcrum
and Dropleton wrote entire fanfiction out of the idea 😉
limpid agate
This is not a channel for fanfiction.
placid fulcrum
it's a joke
visual phoenix
omg this again?
placid fulcrum
it's their theory
limpid agate
A theory is good of it has a base.
placid fulcrum
and I see no reason why Echo wouldn't be an omnic
not everywhere omnics have rights
limpid agate
Its not a question about rights. Its about the fact that she isnt an omnic.
placid fulcrum
how come?
limpid agate
Its like saying that all cola beverages are Pepsis.
iron plume
ew
placid fulcrum
we were told that "omnic" and "robot" are interchangeable terms
visual phoenix
she can be an omnic, it depends on what blizzard thinks an omnic is, and it seems like its just a sentient robot, I mean orisa wanst made in an omnium, but she's still considered an omnic, what makes echo not an omnic for you?
limpid agate
So are Coke and Pepsi
They are used interchangably
But a difference exists.
Echo is not an omnic.
placid fulcrum
neithewr is zenyataa
limpid agate
Yes he is.
placid fulcrum
but that changes nothing as far as the theory is concerned
limpid agate
Zenyatta, Bastion, and Orisa are all Omnics.
visual phoenix
can you give us a reason why echo isnt an omnic? what's the difference?
limpid agate
So are Lynx, Max, and Luna.
placid fulcrum
explain to me how is zen an omnic, but echo is not?
visual phoenix
they are all robots, they are all made of metal, they all have a conscience, is it the color?
placid fulcrum
zen wasn't built by omnica
limpid agate
Every single machine we have seen that has been called Omnic has the same distinct features. Echo was never called an omnic and is extremely visually different from them.
visual phoenix
the design?
limpid agate
Zenyatta, like all omnics, came from an omnium.
placid fulcrum
bastion looks vastly different to zenyatta
visual phoenix
@limpid agate echo was only seen twice tho, and she's not even a character yet, what are the odds of someone refereing to her as an omnic instad of just echo?
placid fulcrum
they're no more similar than echo is to them
zenyatta was buiuld 10 years after the omnic crisis
visual phoenix
orisa is vastly different to zen and bastion, orisa has eyes
limpid agate
Bastions, Idinas, Titans, the civilian omnics, The Spidertank Omnics, the Nullifiers, Eradicators, Slicer, Orbiters, etc.
visual phoenix
has horns, and seems to be more dependant on programing than them
placid fulcrum
anubis
limpid agate
We've seen orisa before Efi upgraded her.
Anubis is not an omnic.
Anubis doesnt even have a body.
Its just an AI
visual phoenix
I agree with anubis he's just a program
placid fulcrum
so could be echo
visual phoenix
omnics kinda need a body
placid fulcrum
she could be a god-program
limpid agate
No, she can't.
placid fulcrum
how come?
limpid agate
God Program was a colloquial term to refer to the Anubis AI that Helix was watching.
There is no reason to think it exists outside Egypt.
visual phoenix
I mean, if echo is programed like a normal robot, has a metal body, has conscionsness, and can experience the world in similar ways as us humans, I dont see why she wouldnt be an omnic
what's the specific difference other than design?
limpid agate
We have a world where we have omnics, and non-omnic robots.
placid fulcrum
yes, ther3 is a reason
visual phoenix
I mean she could just be a newer version
placid fulcrum
it specifically states that anubis was only one of multiple god=programs
limpid agate
Its like assuming every asian is Chinese.
worthy rose
didnt winston make echo
limpid agate
That's a theory, but I doubt it.
placid fulcrum
and everyone is susprised to find out that anubis can mind-control other omnics, implying that every god-program has different powers
visual phoenix
Iphone1 and IphoneX are still Iphones. but omnics is a term like phone, not specific anymore, omnics is basically the name to describe sentient robots
limpid agate
We were explictly told by Michael Chu that God Program was just a colloquial used by the helix agents in Egypt.
visual phoenix
robots that just follow a program are robots
and programs themselves are programs
limpid agate
Calling Echo an omnic is like calling your Google Nexus an iPhone
placid fulcrum
whatever term they use, they still say that there is more than one
limpid agate
People know what you're talking about, but you're wrong.
visual phoenix
@placid fulcrum more than one, so theres omnics, and? what are the onther names for other robots?
twilit nacelleBOT
For more information about the game, please refer to the wiki: https://overwatch.gamepedia.com/Training_Bot
limpid agate
!!wiki Hyde_Global
twilit nacelleBOT
For more information about the game, please refer to the wiki: https://overwatch.gamepedia.com/Hyde_Global
limpid agate
!!wiki Wrecking_Ball
twilit nacelleBOT
For more information about the game, please refer to the wiki: https://overwatch.gamepedia.com/Wrecking_Ball
visual phoenix
training bot does not have a conscionsness, neither does the ball
limpid agate
Source.
placid fulcrum
I mean that I don't care if anubis was called a a god-program by helix alone or by all humans on earth. what I care is that helix agents said that there were more such "god-programs" overwatch had contained
limpid agate
On the training bot
visual phoenix
and hyde blodor doesnt make omnics
limpid agate
Not what sentient means, even though uou're correct.
visual phoenix
they make automated robots
limpid agate
And I asked for the source on the Training Bot.
visual phoenix
which are like the training bots
placid fulcrum
point is - every sentient robot we've seen in the canon so far was called an omnic
placid fulcrum
and omnic-haters like junk and hog don't hate the drones
are training bots sentient?
placid fulcrum
if so, then do we murder them?
visual phoenix
training bots are just there to follow a program, if they actually walked around, and went grocery shoppuing or something, they would be omnics
limpid agate
Snowball is not an omnic.
Snowball also has a personality.
it is sapient and capable of reason.
worthy rose
wrecking ball's mech is not an omni
placid fulcrum
we don't know to what extent
limpid agate
Sentient just means its capable of things like sight and touch.
visual phoenix
then youre saying echo is on the level of a pet robot?
limpid agate
She's not an omnic.
visual phoenix
pet robot is kinda in between omnic and robots
limpid agate
We have a precedent for non-Omnic robots to exist.
placid fulcrum
she's as much of an omnic as zenyatta
limpid agate
Zenyatta is explicitly an omnic, just like every other civilian omnic in the series.
Bob, Max, Luna, Mondatta
Etc
placid fulcrum
says who? you?
limpid agate
Says the fucking writing stuff
placid fulcrum
did the writing stuff say that echo's not an omnic?
visual phoenix
it's like robots (just follow a program and dont have life)-pet robots (snowball, can think but not capable of human things) - omnics (basically humans with metal suits)
limpid agate
!!loreHeroes zenyatta
twilit nacelleBOT
To learn more, please visit https://playoverwatch.com/en-us/heroes/zenyatta#story
worthy rose
there are more omnics than just the human looking ones
visual phoenix
in which category does echo go?
worthy rose
we already knew he was omnic
limpid agate
Zen is an omnic.
placid fulcrum
where did the writers say that echo's not an omnic?
because zenyatta wasn't build by omnica
so that's not what makes an omnic an omnic
limpid agate
1 - They gave her a sufficiently different design from every other omnic in the universe. Not one omnic has any feature she has in common. All she has in common is "Intelligent Machine with a body" which is no different than Snowball.
2 - They rather explicitly avoided calling her an omnic.
Many many times
placid fulcrum
how much in common does zenyatta have with bastion?
visual phoenix
omg, I just found what taigavia could have said all along
Echo's 'face' is a holographic projection. This would allow her a wide degree of facial expressions, similar to other robots like Snowball as opposed to omnics, who are generally more static in their facial expression.
in the wiki, this can be found
limpid agate
I mean, if that makes it easy for you, sure.
visual phoenix
which can be a distinction made between echo and omnics
then echo is either just a recent version of omnics or something new altogether
twilit nacelleBOT
For more information about the game, please refer to the wiki: https://overwatch.gamepedia.com/OR15
placid fulcrum
so is echo
limpid agate
And pretty much all of Null sector.
visual phoenix
then she's not a robot, she's an echo? I guess we got it
placid fulcrum
I disagree
limpid agate
She is a robot.
visual phoenix
echo is an echo
placid fulcrum
I thin you're grasping at straws
limpid agate
You havent made a single point other than "They're both robots"
visual phoenix
but robot dont have a consciousness, echo does
worthy rose
omnics have consciousness too
limpid agate
All omnics are robots, but not all robots are omnics.
placid fulcrum
I will continue to consider echo an omnic, until it's explicitly stated in the story or by the devs that she is not
visual phoenix
good idea
placid fulcrum
because I see no larger difference between the design of zenyatta and bastion or orisa than between him and echo
visual phoenix
I'll avoid to mention ''species/type'' and just call her echo, and if i'mforced to mention ''species/type'' i'll say omnic anyways 😛
placid fulcrum
sapient robot
limpid agate
Or you can just say robot. All omnics are robots.
visual phoenix
if something is confirmed, i'll call her the right thing
placid fulcrum
let's just stick with that
limpid agate
Sure, whatever.
peak escarp
when Jeff talked about Echo at Blizzcon 2018, right after Reunion was shown, he called her "that mysterious white robot"
he deliberately avoided calling her an omnic
in the same speech, he talked about "the omnic sniper"
peak escarp
around 1:53:00
visual phoenix
well that clears that up, she's something else entirely, so robot is a bigger term, but if you wanna be specific let's just go with echo
peak escarp
robot is a broad term for automatons, which includes omnics, drones and other things like them
visual phoenix
makes sense
peak escarp
omnic refers specifically to omnics made in an omnium
or in Orisa's case, made from an omnic
visual phoenix
that's why or15 were omnics as well, they were updates from or14, which were omnics in the nule sector, and or13 were there during the omnic crisis
limpid agate
OR14s were used in the crisis
visual phoenix
so yeah, it's just a big chain of omnics lmao
limpid agate
They were also used by Null Sector in the King's Row uprising
visual phoenix
their the same?
visual phoenix
I though the or14 were updated with the shield
visual phoenix
because we've never seen them use the blade, and we've never seen the ones in rein's short using shields so I just assumed they were updated to be more defensive
guess I was wrong then
limpid agate
they were modified, they might not have the swords anymore
But both are OR14 model.
visual phoenix
wait, each omnic type is created in an omnium? i'm looking at the wiki page for or14's and it says they were built in the nigerian omnium, so tha means they were exclusively built there? or were they later transfered to the other omniums?
because if each omnium made specific types of omnics, it would explain why theres only one bastion, because theone that created bastions could have been destroyed/deactivated, it's making much more sense now
peak escarp
that's possible
we dont know much about the omniums
but the East China Sea omnium is underwater, and produces omnics that look aquatic
limpid agate
I dont think that's the case
peak escarp
so its possible each omnium had specific designs
limpid agate
I dont see why the Omniums wouldnt share designs across each other. Otherwise... You're gonna need a lot of omniums
To make Null Sector
And not just that
We've seen some of the omnics used globally
Like... You can find the VW Golf being built around the world.
The Golf in America is different than the Golf in England
But they're still both Golfs, a designe shared by the factories.
!!loreHeroes bastion
twilit nacelleBOT
To learn more, please visit https://playoverwatch.com/en-us/heroes/bastion#story
limpid agate
Following the resolution of the crisis, nearly all of [the bastions] were destroyed or disassembled. To this day, Bastion units still symbolize the horrors of the conflict.
visual phoenix
but not just 1type it's like, the china sea omnium makes the multiple designs of the gwishin designs, it's safe to assume all the null sector designs would be created by the nigerian omnium, but nor be shared with the others
limpid agate
Its not really safe. You said it was something about the bsation
That design was explicitly discontinued.
peak escarp
why the Nigerian omnium?
visual phoenix
it's like,I have my ideas, and draw something, that doesnt mean you will get my idea and make the same, y'know?
limpid agate
!!wiki Zarya/Quotes
twilit nacelleBOT
For more information about the game, please refer to the wiki: https://overwatch.gamepedia.com/Zarya/Quotes
limpid agate
Zarya: I have destroyed more of your kind than I can count.
Nevermind
We dont know if its still in production in Russia.
visual phoenix
@peak escarp because or14 were part of the nullsector and they were created in that omnium, so its safe to assume the entire force comes from the same omnium and is transported to the different cities
limpid agate
That's not safe to assume.
You are making a lot of assumptions to build up to your "safe to assume" assumption
visual phoenix
either that or all the omniums are creating nule sector units :p
peak escarp
but the OR14s were also used to defend Numbani - they're not exclusive to Null Sector
limpid agate
If you want another example, lets look at the Titan.
The Titans were shown to exist in every continent
That's not something that you make in 1 omnium and then transport across the planet.
visual phoenix
it will only be confirmed once we see what type of omnics russia is fighting, if it's nulse sector, every omnium does the same (exept china sea for some reason)
limpid agate
Why would Russia be fighting Null sector?
visual phoenix
if it's something completly new, idk
limpid agate
Im confused by what your argument is now
visual phoenix
@limpid agate I meant, the only way we can know for sure how the omniums work is to see what type of enemies russia is fighting, if it's completly different omnics, then its possible each omnium produces their own designs, if russia is fighting nule sector coming from that omnium, maybe they are doing the same thing
visual phoenix
because it's the same designs
limpid agate
There is no reason for it to be Null Sector.
visual phoenix
omg...
limpid agate
Like, pause
visual phoenix
then do all the omniums do the same or not?
peak escarp
Null Sector designs are not exclusive to Null Sector
limpid agate
Lets say that we have 4 Ford factories around the world. 1 in America, 1 in Egypt, 1 in Asia, 1 in England.
peak escarp
they have (had?) Bastions and OR15s
limpid agate
Okay stop with your analogy. It makes no sense.
Im capable of making circles and squares too
visual phoenix
or the other possibility, the omniums works as a hivemind, and if I make a circle, everyone else is gonna make circles
limpid agate
No
Thats not accurate
There is another possibility between "Hivemind" and "Copyright"
visual phoenix
but the analogy is to say, do they do the same thing? or are they creating their each unique designs?
visual phoenix
the simple shapes were to make it easier to understand
let's say omnium 1 creates a design A to go to war, will the other omniums make omnics of the design A too? or will they create their own things?
now i'm confusion
limpid agate
Lets put this in simpler terms.
Omnium 1 makes Idinas, Titans, and Civilain omnics.
Omnium 2 makes Idinas, Eradicators, and Bastions for Null Sector.
Omnium 3 makes Bastions, Spidertanks, and Titans to kill Russians.
Omnium 3 making bastions doesnt meant they're null sector bastions
Omnium 2 making Indinas, doesn't mean omnium 1 can't make indinas
We dont know a lot about omniums, but there is no reason to assume some kind of magically 1 factory per machine design rule, nor some kind of hivemind when we have actively seen that idea of a hivemind not work
While Russia is at war with their omnium, the nigerian omnium made OR15s and the Gwisin omnium made the squids
visual phoenix
so they share designs
limpid agate
Probably.
There is no reason to assume they can't.
We haven't been shown any reason to suggest they can't.
The Russian omnium would have no reason to make Null Sector troops
because as far as we know
Its unaffiliated with Null Sector
It could be making the same kind of troops
They could both be making Eradicators or Bastions
visual phoenix
I didnt say 1 factory per machine rule, I said each factory having their own designs, let's say like omnium 1 created bastions or14's and more, but omnium 2 creates gwishins, if omnium 2 wanted could it create bastions? or it can only create bastions once it learns about them?
limpid agate
if omnium 2 wanted could it create bastions? or it can only create bastions once it learns about them?
visual phoenix
they can either have a connection between their designs, or be completly isolated from eachother?
limpid agate
I am confused. I am reading this as:
- Can Omnium 2 make Bastions without knowing what they are, or can it only create Bastions after knowing what they are
visual phoenix
so if like omnium 1 sends omnium 2 a bastion, omnium 2 will know how to make bastions, because it analized it, or can omnium one just send the file to omnium 2 throught discord or whatever?
limpid agate
Im sure just a blueprint is enough.
They also have self-improving algorhythms
They create their own blueprints and evolve
The best example is the Titan and the Gwisin
The Titan was a machine made to build skyscrapers
In the Omnic Crisis, they were given massive guns.
As for the Gwisin, they adapted their machines specifically to counter MEKA's forces.
visual phoenix
so that means each omnium is probably creating their own stuff, ''even if some are repeated from others like simple foot soldiers'' each omnium creates and improvers their own designs, that was my argument since the beggining D:
limpid agate
They created new things not on the designs before, such as jammers to jam drones
They can create their own stuff
But there is no reason why others cannot make it too, granted they know how.
Like, the bastion.
visual phoenix
but that doesnt mean omnium one cant create like a gwishin
it probably can, because they probably can communicate with eachother
peak escarp
don't think of it as "hivemind", think of it as a network
limpid agate
^
visual phoenix
that's why the drawing analogy worked, like, I make a circle, that doesnt mean you cant make a circle, but I created the circle, it's mine, im gonna make it more and improve it, but if you wanna use my circle, you can
same for the omniums, one makes the bastion, the others can make bastions, they probably choose not to 😮
its so much clearer now
peak escarp
something like that
visual phoenix
I dont think nule sector is making bastions anymore
limpid agate
Its bio says that the models were all scrapped post crisis and became a symbol of the war.
They had them 7 years ago
visual phoenix
in the rio mission there were a lot of new designs but ot bastions to be found
limpid agate
7 years ago was still well after the crisis
peak escarp
would kinda ruin the image of our Bastion as "the Last Bastion" if they were still around
visual phoenix
then that means, if an omnium is able to get a hold of bastion then can start the production all over again? because theill be able to reacess the blueprint
peak escarp
possibly
visual phoenix
like if an omnium scans bastion, theill know how to make bastions
finally, some stakes, I like it
peak escarp
that would make Bastion a target to Null Sector, once they know it exists
visual phoenix
that's why bastion is probably with overwatch
peak escarp
they did say Bastion would be important in OW2
visual phoenix
to be protected, and help them in missions
so I assume he'kk be captured by the nule sector at some point then
and we'll start fighting bastions
neat
placid fulcrum
visual phoenix
what is that?
placid fulcrum
Michael Chu
he's pretty clear that robot and omnic are interchangeable to him
so jsut because he calls Echo a robot, it doens't make her not an omnic
limpid agate
Heres your coke.
placid fulcrum
"Following up on my earlier Bastion note, "omnic" is basically a colloquial term people use to describe robots in the world of Overwatch."
Michael Chu appreciates it and calls it a tasty coke 🙂
limpid agate
Here's your gameboy
visual phoenix
whatever
placid fulcrum
Michael Chu loves gameboys like these
limpid agate
It being interchangable colloquially doesn't mean its not incorrect.
placid fulcrum
But Michael Chu calling Echo a robot doens't mean she's not an omnic as well
since he hismelf uses the word interchangeably
visual phoenix
then echo is technically an omnic
limpid agate
You have nothing to support her being an omnic other than she is a robot.
If you want to say she is technically an omnic
placid fulcrum
you have nothing to support her not being an omnic
limpid agate
Provide the source
placid fulcrum
you do it
visual phoenix
unless they state otherwise like they did with ball
limpid agate
- They explicitly called her a robot over an omnic
- They explicitly gave her a non-omnic design
Your turn.
grand wedge
Where do you think Null Sector built their massive flying ship that are just flying factories without anyone noticing ?
grand wedge
How no one could see that coming ?
visual phoenix
so technicallt robots in our world, omg my mind is dying
placid fulcrum
She doens't have a non-omnic design, because omnics can looks in many different ways
visual phoenix
@grand wedge the omniums did
limpid agate
You have no argument.
placid fulcrum
You have no argument 🙂
limpid agate
I provided two points. Your argument is your perceived absence of disproof.
placid fulcrum
you call disagree all you want, but your "evidence" is literally jsut "the guy who said that words "robot" and "omnic" are interchangeable called her a robot"
visual phoenix
@grand wedge they probably did see it, but didnt have time to stop it, I mean, what are you gonna do if you see a giant ship? theres not much you can do
placid fulcrum
I don't argue that she's "techncially" an omnic
limpid agate
Then sod off
placid fulcrum
I'm jsut saying that she is as much of an omnic as zenyatta is an omnic
limpid agate
She isnt
placid fulcrum
she is
limpid agate
Zenyatta is "technically" and "literally" an omnic.
grand wedge
How could they built that under everyone’s nose and no one noticed ?
placid fulcrum
what makes an omnic an omnic?
because zenyatta was build long after the omnic crisis
limpid agate
The same thing that makes a Kleenex a Kleenex
grand wedge
Stop that argument you are going nowhere with it....
limpid agate
Omniums still exist post-crisis
placid fulcrum
then zenyatta is not technically an omnic, only colloquially
limpid agate
Omnics are still built post crisis
placid fulcrum
he wasn't build by kleenex aka omnica