But that is up for the writers to decide
#lore-discussion
shrewd meteor
placid fulcrum
That would make Roadhog look even less smart
Betting his head on a 50%share of a cat in a sack
And he doesn't even enjoy it
He came across to me like a smart guy in his comic
So I like to think that he knows something we don't
shrewd meteor
I hope he does
placid fulcrum
Tangentially related, but someone mentioned echo being used as a way to develop mccree and it just reminded me how upset I am that the devs sunk mcashe probably only so that they could pair off mccree with echo
She didn't make much of an impression on me. Ashe has a personality, echo doesn't (yet?)
She was literally turned off when they had no need of her.
That's not a pairing that would make me want to ship it
In fact, most of the canon pairings are deeply disappointing
placid fulcrum
Ana, Soldier, Widowmaker, Tracer, Reaper, Torbjorn are/were all dating some randos with no personality or importance
Why else would they go out of their way to tell us mcashe isn't a thing? Either he'll be dating echo, or yet another rando.
Honestly, I'd prefer a rando over a robot waifu that he has the key to turn on and off whenever he pleases
shrewd meteor
Lmao
Dating echo
You can't get it with a human woman
So you try your luck with an omnic
placid fulcrum
Idk, I feel like he could get it
shrewd meteor
Oh no
placid fulcrum
Ashe seems interested
placid fulcrum
She's kept his photo on her bike for 20 years
modern bloom
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TC2Y3mkEJkU can you guys show this some love? First Montage
peak escarp
Or one panel where Dr. Winston is arguing with his colleagues about keeping those highly intelligent animals basically imprisoned?
But the fact of the matter is that the gorillas are members of the colony, just like you and I. I don't believe there's a magic solution to socializing them. We think of them as teenagers, but they're much more than that.
we don't have any examples of Moira experimenting on unwilling subjects - we only know she has done unethical work from her bio and origin trailer.
and on the Ashe/McCree topic . . . I think she has unrequited love for him
placid fulcrum
oh, nice
where is this message from?
Also, @modern bloom I don't think that fits this channel
placid fulcrum
awesome! thanks
peak escarp
regardless of the ethical implications of doing genetic therapy on great apes, Harold Winston was a good man
placid fulcrum
he called it off when he noticed they're not doing well, that speaks well of him
peak escarp
he treated the apes like members of the colony, rather than test subjects, which is appropriate considering their intelligence level
we dont know much about the other scientists, but Harold's note implies that they didn't treat the apes like equals
modern bloom
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TC2Y3mkEJkU can you guys show this some love? First Montage
peak escarp
!!loreonly @modern bloom
twilit nacelleBOT
@modern bloom This channel is for serious discussion strictly related to the lore of Overwatch. Shitposting will result in a loss of access.
valid terrace
I don’t know what the big deal about Moira being 100% evil is
All the characters have checkered pasts from at least one standpoint, not a single one is perfectly good or evil
It’s just that she values scientific progress over safety and protocols, which didn’t sit well with Soldier and Mercy, so as the higher ups in Overwatch’s science division, they wouldn’t let her get very far
You can agree or disagree with any of the characters, they can be good or evil depending on who makes the call
I think prior to Retribution, Moira was the most significantly maverick member of Overwatch that we know about
iron plume
I don't think anyon's claiming her to be 100% evil
but I'm honestly a bit tired of her whitewashing
she isn't just reckless in "valuing progress over safety and protocols"
she values it over ethics
limpid agate
So
iron plume
also
with Soldier and Mercy
there's no sign whatsoever that Mercy had anything to do with her disgrace
or morals
we have a word for that and that word is "evil"
she doesn't do it for the shits and giggles of "being bad"
but that's not a requirement
valid terrace
At the time wasn’t Mercy at the head of the science department? If not then that was my false assumption.
iron plume
she wasn't in charge of Blackwatch's
valid terrace
No, but that was separate from her research at Overwatch
iron plume
Her pre-blackwatch research wasn't for OW
valid terrace
Regardless, Morrison didn’t approve of her methods, and whether or not he was qualified, he certainly had a large say in her limits at Overwatch
peak escarp
Overwatch shut her down
her previous work wasn't for Overwatch
we weren't really discussing if Moira was evil - someone said Moira had "done nothing wrong"
peak escarp
which is technically true
but she's not a good person
I agree that they need to show more and tell less
placid fulcrum
OW2 might be a good start of that
let's keep our fingers crossed
will all missions be in the current time, or will some of them be in the past? do we know anything about this?
peak escarp
I would argue that her work on Reyes was Moira doing wrong
lament prawn
overwatch 2 is supposed to be the next chapter, the heroes have been recalled and now the story finally goes beyond
there may be some flashbacks here and there but in general OW2's purpose is to take the story forward
peak escarp
yes he volunteered, but she did more than what he volunteered for
he wanted her to fix his problems, not turn him into smoke
placid fulcrum
he continues to call her his friend, so he doesn't mind it
and it's not like this is the first time he was augmented
peak escarp
that doesn't change the fact that she did more than he consented to
placid fulcrum
can we be sure?
maybe she couldn't have fixed him in any other way? he could've gone to mercy instead
peak escarp
the artist said his expression in Moira's origin was one of fear
lament prawn
didnt she even do the similar experiments on herself only after she's had experience by testing it on him?
placid fulcrum
so? I feel fear every time I get shots, doens't mean they're bad for me and doens't mean I don't consent to them
peak escarp
maybe Mercy couldn't fix him, or he didnt want his friends to worry
placid fulcrum
it's normal to feel fear when you see your body turning into smoke all fo the sudden. but ultimately he was more than happy with the results
so saying she's a monster for doing something that the person she did it to was happy with is a bit over the top
I wish they'd show me the unwilling test subjects who aren't happy with the results
why not officially confirm that she had something to do with Widowmaker's brainwashing?
although that would have made her a traitor to overwatch even before the split
so probably not
lament prawn
willing or not, her work is not good because she's aware that it hasn't been tested and could make for unwanted results but continues to do so anyway
placid fulcrum
um, winston's work was untested and had unwanted results
and we agreed that he's a good person regardless
lament prawn
winston has shown care for the wellbeing of the subjects, moira hasnt
placid fulcrum
difference is, we saw winston's kinder side, we didn't see moira's. and winston was on the side of the "good guys" unlike moira. but I still wish for more showing, less telling
lament prawn
i agree with you in the sense that more showing is good and they should do more, but i dont think they've shown so little to the point where we don't know who's good and who isn't
placid fulcrum
also, moira did show care for her subjects
she asks them how they feel all the time
worries about side effects
she has multiple interactions like that
lament prawn
well of course she'd want to know how her experiments affect her subjects, thats the point of doing them
but just comparing the personalities of her and winston, i can see who cares (or at least who cares far more than the other) without needing to be told "he good she bad" directly
placid fulcrum
or you jsut let your preconceived notions do that
because I can totally read her concern as genuine
literally the only reason not to do that is because she's steretypical cartoon bad guy
not because there's anything we've been shown about her actual character that would support the idea of her being cruel and uncaring
certainly no more than multiple "good guy" characters, who have some very cruel lines
peak escarp
if I go in for a dental checkup and the dentist starts pulling teeth without asking or telling me, that's a breach of ethics
doesn't matter if I feel better about it afterwards
placid fulcrum
difference is - you go to a dentist asking to come up with a new and undiscovered treatment for teeth
you don't get to complain when the dentist starts pulling your teeth then
peak escarp
I sure would
placid fulcrum
how do you think drugs are tested in the real world?
iron plume
on people directly agreeing to consequences
placid fulcrum
unforseen consequences
peak escarp
the people being tested are still told what they're taking
placid fulcrum
that nobody told them what they could be, because nobody knows
iron plume
and with studies carefully monitored for adverse effects
peak escarp
they dont just dose people unknowingly
iron plume
that then stop if they start happening
placid fulcrum
they won't know until a subject start experiencing them
how do you know moira didn't carefully monitor reyes?
you're just making assumptions
peak escarp
she did monitor him
iron plume
<
placid fulcrum
he did consent
she did what he specifically hired her for
and he was happy with her work
you're making up headcanons
peak escarp
we know he asked her to help him with "a genetic issue"
placid fulcrum
and she did
peak escarp
we know he looked frightened when he appeared to be turning into smoke
placid fulcrum
as I do, when I'm getting shots
peak escarp
this implies that he did not agree to that
placid fulcrum
as do people who consent to drug tests, when they suffer side effects
that doesn't invalidate their consent
lean prawn
normally they test it on animals first to see if there are any harmful side effects
iron plume
she experimented on herself first
placid fulcrum
there is ero reason to believe moira wouldn't stop if she felt his life was in danger
lean prawn
she experimented with a rabbit first
placid fulcrum
she doens't turn into smoke, so I doubt it
iron plume
you're staring with the conclusion and forcing evidence to fit it
placid fulcrum
no, you are making up headcanons and confusing them for canon
facts are as follows: reyes hired her to perform a new and untested procedure on him, she did what he wanted and he was happy with it and coninues to employe her and even consider her a frined
iron plume
if taking a (somewhat) nebulous situation and interpreting is "making up headcanons" then you're doing the exact same thing
placid fulcrum
everything else is just your own unfounded speculation
no, I'm stating canon facts
reyes got what he wanted and he's happy with it
there is no lack of consent, either confirmed or implied
in fact, wasn't it implied that it was the woman in your icon that is responsible for what's currently wrong with his body, that he definitely didn't consent to?
interesting double standards
peak escarp
no it wasn't
placid fulcrum
he definitely blames overwatch
peak escarp
it was never implied that Mercy was involved
iron plume
oh god
lean prawn
maybe he's asking because mercy is a licensed medical professional and he just wants a diagnosis
mercy didn't turn him into a ghost or drop a building on his face
she just knows health
placid fulcrum
if he cared about mercy's diagnosis he wouldn't have gone to moira to begin with
and mercy's on his kill list, rememebr?
iron plume
he doesn't care for the diagnosis, he's just a sarcastic asshole
peak escarp
because she's Overwatch
lean prawn
Winston and tracer didn't really do much to him either and they're also on the kill list
placid fulcrum
anyway, it's ludicrous to blame the state of reyes' body on moira, when the man himself is blaming everyone except her
lean prawn
again, jack dropped the building on his face
placid fulcrum
how about let him decide who really did something agaisnt his consent?
placid fulcrum
my point is: canon over fanon. also let the "victim" say who they blame for doing things to their body that they don't like, shall we?
placid fulcrum
the canon is -reyes likes moira and is happy with her work on him
iron plume
and moira is a scientist infamous for her disregard of ethics and morals
iron plume
that doesn't make denying it any more canon
placid fulcrum
well, so much stuff we've seen that turned out to be biased
iron plume
such as
placid fulcrum
like that news article which stated that reyes hated morrison for getting picked as the leader
or hanzo's bio stating that genji is dead
lean prawn
"Overwatch didn't agree with my tactics, and they tried to shut me down."
-Moira's origin trailer
placid fulcrum
who's to say that mercy's opinion about moira isn't biased or based on incomplete information?
lament prawn
placid fulcrum
after all, in mercy's short story, her own research was also hated
iron plume
how about moira working for a literal terrorist organization
and mercy's research isn't hated, her involvement with overwatch is
placid fulcrum
and her research as a result of that
lean prawn
mercy was sought out by overwatch because of her own revolutionary research
placid fulcrum
so was moira
iron plume
(wonder what made people hate overwatch, by the way)
(if only there was some kind of infamous incident we played through)
placid fulcrum
I mean, according to the comics, blackwatch did a whole lot of horrible things
"assassination, coercion, kidnapping, torture, and worse."
lean prawn
like recruiting a geneticist who had no qualms about violating the regulations of the scientific community
lean prawn
that jack had largely no say in
lean prawn
the entire venice sting was behind jack's back
placid fulcrum
no it wasn't
we see him walking them up to the jet in the comic
he couldn't officially allow for it, but he still unofficially gave his permission
lean prawn
what was this entire thing about originally
placid fulcrum
telling vs showing
and how we're told moira is evil, but she hasn't done much evil on screen
lean prawn
she does take active part in a terrorist organization
placid fulcrum
so does every memebr of overwatch
because it's an illegal organization that has been complicit in a number of criminal activities over the years
iron plume
"criminal" and "terrorist" is a pretty big fucking leap
it's Talon's explicit goal to start a worldwide conflict
which overwatch is trying to mitigate
placid fulcrum
well... they entered london despite having no permission from official authorities and stirred s*t there
lean prawn
to stop another terrorist organization
iron plume
Talon whataboutism
never thought I'd see the day
placid fulcrum
if your side does "assassination, coercion, kidnapping, torture, and worse." then "but our primary goal is to stop terrortists!" isn't an excuse
placid fulcrum
wqe don't know
iron plume
lmao
lean prawn
overwatch says that overwatch is a terrorist organization, but the cinematics show us that the organization was revived upon an ideal
placid fulcrum
it's one of those "tell don't show" moments
from the comics
to be honest, i don't think I want that shown
it's one of the rare cases where telling is enough
anyway, how about we talk about something positive for a change?
who's your favourite character and do you play them?
iron plume
to play, Ashe, but that's not this channel
as a character, Mercy
placid fulcrum
I'm just curious if people typically play their lore favourites or not
because I do like to play my favourite characters, even though their playstyle doens't appeal to me particularly
i'm also curious whether playing a character makes you more interested in their lore
that's generally the case in wow. people are downright obsessed with their races and factions
placid fulcrum
if overwatch were to introduce a talon/overwatch hero divide, I wonder if people would become equally tribalist
I hope it won't
valid terrace
The farthest I can see them doing that is a twitter contest leading to a skin for the winning side
placid fulcrum
that would be interesting
valid terrace
Or maybe an event tdm
peak escarp
it would be better if some heroes stayed neutral/3rd party
not everyone needs to pick a side
valid terrace
I think they meant for the fans rather than characters
placid fulcrum
I love characters and their lore equally: junkers, deadlock gang, reaper, ana, sombra (shocking as it may sound). I only care about the other characters in relation to these ones (at the moment, might change in the future with more lore incoming). I play them all, more or less often. The only character I like to play whose lore I don't care for is Brigitte.
although, let me retract: it's not that I don't care for the lore for other characters. if there's a comic or story, or a cinematic, I will definitely watch it. just, it won't get me as excited as these characters.
valid terrace
I enjoy playing all the characters, and the lore just deepens my experience in the game
lean prawn
zarya is my favourite character
fresh tundra
How come?
lean prawn
she's a paragon of her beliefs, strong physically and emotionally
peak escarp
she's inspirational
lean prawn
she reminds me of captain america from the first and second movies
also she was like "oh no my gun is broken hey look there's another gun i can use" and rips a gun off of an armored vehicle and just started using that
her character is just so cool
placid fulcrum
I like how she was able to overcome her prejudice and saved the life of her omnic partner (dare i say "friend"?)
peak escarp
calling Lynx her friend would be generous
lean prawn
more like zarya swallowing her prejudices for the greater good
which is just as inspirational
shell jay
Is it possible Junkrat and Roadhog could have a romantic relationship in anyway
Also have you noticed that mostly everyone has had something terrible or depressing happen in their lives except for Brigette?
peak escarp
I think a romantic relationship between Junkrat and Roadhog is very unlikely
Roadhog doesn't seem to like him much
also Brigitte had to see her godfather essentially get fired - I'd count that as something terrible
valid terrace
Do you think we could get a hero that’s only in it for the fame Booster Gold style, or would that distort the message they’re trying to spread too much?
shell jay
I mean some of the heroes are villains so i dont think it would affect it much
valid terrace
I mean one that is clearly meant to be a hero, but not in the public interest
And Soldier doesn’t count
worthy rose
A hero who's only in it for the glory
doesn't really care about doing good?
Possibly
tho it will be hard to do without ruining that feeling that the blizzard team tries so hard to do.
valid terrace
That’s what I mean
worthy rose
The closest character would probably be maybe Junkrat?
shell jay
I think that would actually be a good character concept
A celebrity who received backlash for something so they became a hero for the fame
worthy rose
No
Booster gold wasnt a celebrity; he was a time traveler from the future who wanted to get famous during the era of superman
What i think moscimer means is a hero that isnt morally good or evil but self serving but operates on the side of good
valid terrace
Right
shell jay
I was just coming up with a random character I didn't know booster gold
valid terrace
Same character as BG but not backstory obviously
worthy rose
Which I think junkrat is the closest to that but he doesn’t cleanly fit and I doubt they wanna touch the time travel aspect cause that’s a messy slope
In terms of most writing
shell jay
What if they made a completely new character based on that
valid terrace
Exactly
worthy rose
I would hate another character based on time travel
peak escarp
same
valid terrace
I’m just trying to get the consensus on if heroes have to be selfless in lore
So far all the heroes are
worthy rose
And while doable; I wouldnt really be a fan cause a lot overwatch’s charms come from characters personality. They are all very intriguing but having a character just be “Hi; I self inserted myself into the hero group cause fame.” Is gonna be real hard to make charming.
shell jay
What if the character had nothing to do w time travel
worthy rose
Also cause time travel characters are like the duct tape of writing in that if you meed something to occur, time travel to do whatever or get whatever to get out of a sticky scenario
Which enables basically no more stakes
shell jay
Like I said earlier, a celebrity trying to cover up backlash
Or something like that 🤷🏽♂️
valid terrace
I disagree, I find Overwatch’s side characters and villains have more interesting morals and goals since they can be so controversial
worthy rose
They can be but they all serve a character motive you more or less get behind
Or understand
It’s why a lot of ppl like Thanos
valid terrace
I can side with Booster Gold, despite most of the time ignoring if it’s the right thing to do
worthy rose
But a super self serving “I just wanna be famous” and thus butting into situations and interacting with like Tracer or Winston who are idealists would be more trouble than good
valid terrace
I think it would add depth to Winston’s own morals by having someone as a foil of himself
Doing the same things for different reasons
There’s so many characters now where ‘save the world’ is their only real motivation
Separating those ideals through contrast would be refreshing
Hopefully OW2 does that anyways though
peak escarp
Helix could fill that role
saving the world for the money
rather than saving the world because it's the right thing to do
frosty shell
I like the character concept of a mercenary hero good guy
But it seems like it's too late to add that character type now
placid fulcrum
I don't see why it absolutely has to be a time traveler for them to want to be famous, but I also don't think that a time traveling character would be bad. Imagine for example the scenario where they travel to the past to kill the person responsible for the first omnic crusis (ala "killing hitler"), and somehow end up taking them to the future and when that person sees the state of the world, it kickstarts their path towards the "dark side"
frosty shell
True time travel is too much for Overwatch
placid fulcrum
Tracer begs to differ
placid fulcrum
She time traveled 6 months into the future during heraccident
frosty shell
That's not real time travel I would say
placid fulcrum
How come?
frosty shell
By that definition Mei time traveled 9 years
frosty shell
We don't really know much about what was happening to Tracer during that time
All we know is that she was popping in and out of existence
placid fulcrum
There was no "during". She time traveled
placid fulcrum
That was 6 months later
frosty shell
Yes
But just because she disappeared doesn't mean she time traveled
She might've just been undetectable
And the effect is the same as for Mei
placid fulcrum
That's a reasonable assumption for a character whose powers are explicitly stated to be linked to time travel
placid fulcrum
Her short
frosty shell
But during its first flight, the aircraft's teleportation matrix malfunctioned, and it disappeared. Lena was presumed dead.
She reappeared months later, but her ordeal had greatly changed her: her molecules had been desynchronized from the flow of time. Suffering from "chronal disassociation," she was a living ghost, disappearing for hours and days at a time. Even for the brief moments she was present, she was unable to maintain physical form.[3]
peak escarp
"My teleportation matrix malfunctioned, and I disappeared. I was missing for months! And no-one knew where - or when - I'd gone."
doesn't say 6 months
placid fulcrum
"Or when"
peak escarp
still doesn't say 6 months
limpid agate
What's your point
frosty shell
Storywise, it's still the same effect as Mei
peak escarp
time still progressed forward for her and everyone else
placid fulcrum
My point it - she traveled to the future
frosty shell
Time travel into the future doesn't mean much if you can't travel back
limpid agate
I also traveled to the future
placid fulcrum
Not to her, there's nothing to imply this
frosty shell
Mei also traveled into the future at a faster rate
placid fulcrum
"No one knew when I'd gone"
limpid agate
If you've ever taken a nap, you've time traveled to the future the same way Tracer has in that chronal disassociated gap. The difference is, your body still exists in this plane of existence, while hers didnt
placid fulcrum
You're being deliberately obtuse
placid fulcrum
"The character who has the ability that literally has the description "Tracer bounds backward in time, returning her health, ammo and position on the map to precisely where they were a few seconds before." couldn't possibly be linekd to time travel!"
frosty shell
She's close to time travel
placid fulcrum
I don't know if you're just disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing, but that's just plain silly
peak escarp
it's more like a fast forward/rewind, than true time travel
limpid agate
She can't travel across the timeline of the world
peak escarp
based on how it appeared in Alive
limpid agate
She can change her own relative time
Go to where she was 10 seconds earlier
Or will be in 10 seconds
placid fulcrum
not with that thing on her chest
but there was at least one incident where she did pop months into the future
limpid agate
And she aged normally
placid fulcrum
prove it
frosty shell
We don't know if Tracer aged while she was gone
limpid agate
1 sec
placid fulcrum
exactly my point
peak escarp
would you even notice if someone didn't age for a few months?
limpid agate
She cant time travel. She can adjust her own time, but not time travel
peak escarp
it's negligable
frosty shell
She still pretty much did the same thing as Mei
placid fulcrum
a character with time travel in her abilities, and her condition that literally has "chronal" in the name, whose backstory involved "no one knows where - or when - i'd gone" is explicitly linked to time travel
denying it is just being deliberately obtuse
frosty shell
We're not saying she isn't linked to time travel
peak escarp
Mei would look significantly younger than others her age - she's chronologically 40 but biologically 31
placid fulcrum
mei was just asleep. she didn't blink into the future in a second
frosty shell
We're just saying she's not a time traveler
placid fulcrum
she i't but the idea of time travel and a character that would be linked to it is still there
placid fulcrum
because someone said it doesn't fit overwatch universe
placid fulcrum
the devs even stated that one of the original concepts for junkrat was an alien and you think time travel doens't fit the universe which already has a character linked to it?
limpid agate
A character with Reaper in their name, has a condition that literally has "wraith" in the name, whose backstory involved "everyone thought I died, and now I'm an immortal ghost" is explicitly linked to undeath.
Except
He isn't
peak escarp
what do aliens have to do with anything?
limpid agate
a character with supernatural healing in her abilities, and her condition that literally has "resurrect" in the name, whose has the persona of an angel is explicitly linked to bringing back the dead
Except
She isnt
frosty shell
Exactly
limpid agate
Tracer can't go 10 seconds in the past or future
frosty shell
And what's your source for that? Junkrat went through many changes in development but I don't remember anyone saying he was once thought of as an alien
limpid agate
She can reposition herself with timetravel as the excuse
But she cant go back in time
If she can go into the future, it would be more
peak escarp
according to the artbook, Junkrat was just a demolitions guy
frosty shell
Oh I found a mention
limpid agate
Unexisting
frosty shell
Nevermind
limpid agate
Then re-existing
Which is only tangically "time travel"
But its effectively the same as Moira or Reaper
Unexisting, and then re-existing.
frosty shell
However, it doesn't say he was an alien
Just "more alien than human"
And he certainly isn't an alien now
placid fulcrum
it's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard
twisting words just for the sake of disagreement
limpid agate
I agree, Tracer is a silly "time traveller"
frosty shell
No
frosty shell
It's to explain why time travelling to try and stop the Omnic Crisis wouldn't fit the universe
limpid agate
Because she cant
Its also to explain why she cant just undo a bunch of things
Like Mondatta
She has control over her personal time
She cant control the universal time flow, and is still a slave to it
placid fulcrum
she can't. another character might. this is the universe with talking gorillas and hamsters that build robots
frosty shell
Talking gorillas does not imply true time travel could exist
peak escarp
having a time traveller go back and undo the bad things is just lazy writing
frosty shell
They could add it in, I guess
limpid agate
Tracer is a one of a kind character, as far as we were told and led to believe.
frosty shell
But I'd.hate it
limpid agate
They could add it in just as they could add in a pyromancer who lived in the Earth's core for 20 years.
placid fulcrum
I mean that if these characters have not yet been introduced and I brough the idea up here, you'd argue that this also "doesn't fit the unvierse"
limpid agate
Its something that is technically not impossible, but is <1% likely to happen
Disproof is not proof.
You want to argue that someone who can rewind the world's time exists.
frosty shell
Wrecking Ball and Sigma were weird, but I'd never react with "that'd never happen"
I didn't think a hamster would happen, but only because I thought Hammond would be a chimp
placid fulcrum
something tells me you would, if it was me who brought up the idea
limpid agate
Ill argue that someone who can create stars out of cigars would exist. Its equally unlikely
peak escarp
it isn't about you
placid fulcrum
you guys are jsut arguing because you want to disagree with me, it's pretty obvious
limpid agate
No
frosty shell
No
limpid agate
Its because
peak escarp
we don't care who you are
frosty shell
We really don't
frosty shell
You're just not very good at understanding the lore
placid fulcrum
you even deny that one of the early concepts for junkrat was an alien and try to twist the word to mean anythign other than what it obviously means
peak escarp
do you have a source for that?
frosty shell
They said he would be "more alien than human"
frosty shell
limpid agate
Early concepts for this game were a different game
And also not canon
I dont see how this is relevant to the lore?
frosty shell
Which, yeah, doesn't mean he's an alien
placid fulcrum
fair point, but still "more alien than human" doens't fit the universe, does it?
limpid agate
Who cares
frosty shell
Not really
frosty shell
He could've been a horrible mutant
placid fulcrum
relevant in the way that the devs are obviously flexible in their idea of what would fit the universe
limpid agate
Were*
frosty shell
Like how Roadhog was originally going to have a pig snout
frosty shell
Yes, were
limpid agate
It now exists
peak escarp
those concepts were created before they even decided what the Overwatch universe would be
limpid agate
Those concepts are before Doomfist was even a character
He's now the main antagonist
frosty shell
When it was still Titan, they had no rules
placid fulcrum
prove to me that time travel is in their rules
limpid agate
What
frosty shell
I hope you nmean isn't
limpid agate
The burden of proof lies in the claim.
frosty shell
Otherwise you just completely changed your argument
placid fulcrum
my proof is that we already have a character whose backstory involved time traveling months into the future
frosty shell
O can't decide what is and isn't possible
Time travel into the future is nothing like the past
limpid agate
Okay. The counter point is she can't time travel
peak escarp
she couldn't control it
limpid agate
She can't time travel
placid fulcrum
did it once, might do it in the future
frosty shell
But that was into the future and she couldn't control it
limpid agate
You're trying to argue the semantics on if that's time travel
But fine, lets humour you
peak escarp
and being able to time travel but not control when or for how long seems like a really shitty superpower
frosty shell
If she wanted to time travel into the future, she could pull a Mei
limpid agate
Lets suppose that your idea is time travel
And its possible to go into the future
So okay
What does the 1 directional time traveller do
frosty shell
That's a much easier way
placid fulcrum
mei was literally there. she didn't disappear from the timeline, her body was there. not comaprable to tracer who traveled instantly
frosty shell
Not really
limpid agate
Lets suppose that your idea is time travel
And its possible to go into the future
So okay
What does the 1 directional time traveller do
the fact that you're arguing it's in any way similar means that i'm arguing with people who are either being deliberately obtuse or genuinely not very knowleadgable about what time travel means
frosty shell
It accomplishes the same purpose of skipping ahead, apart from maybe cryofreese being harder to maintain
limpid agate
You're just going to keep dodging the question
frosty shell
I know what time travel means
limpid agate
What does your 1 directional time traveller do
They can go forwards in time
Great
So what?
placid fulcrum
if it was possible for tracer, it's not a stretch that it's possible for somebody else.
peak escarp
it is possible for Tracer through a very specific set of circumstances unlikely to be repeatable
placid fulcrum
can you prove it?
limpid agate
Problem with that:
- Tracer was the first and last person to fly the Slipstream
- Tracer's condition was because she crashed the Slipstream
- The Slipstream was a new technology
- The Slipstream was abandonned
- Winston invented the Chronal Accelerator specifically for Tracer
With this
It is nigh impossible for there to be a second Tracer.
The odds of it happening are negligible
peak escarp
sure it's possible someone else could figure out time travel through a different method, but it's not probable
placid fulcrum
the slipstream was officially abandoned, nothing stops a character like moira or sigma from continuing work on it's concept in secret
limpid agate
Okay
So what
What's your point
What is at stake
What is the goal you are trying to achieve
frosty shell
What does your 1 directional time traveller do
placid fulcrum
my only point is that it's within reason for a time traveling character to exist in this universe
frosty shell
You still haven't answered
worthy rose
We'd get a copy of Tracer, which makes it pointless, so it won't happen.
frosty shell
Traveling into the future is way different than the past
limpid agate
If you define time travelling as going into the future
placid fulcrum
that's like saying genji is a copy of hanzo
placid fulcrum
both a re ninjas with dragon powers
limpid agate
Its more like saying Moira is a copy of Reaper.
worthy rose
Tracer's kit is more centered around the accelerator
limpid agate
The Genji/Hanzo comparison was pretty terrible.
worthy rose
It would be more like making another character dual wielding shotguns or something.
limpid agate
That's also a terrible comparison
worthy rose
True
limpid agate
Its literally like saying Moira is a copy of Reaper.
placid fulcrum
says the guy from tracer/mei comparison, lmao
frosty shell
But both of them experience a huge time.jump
placid fulcrum
not really no
mei was asleep
might've been in a coma
wouldn't be a difference
peak escarp
from Mei's perspective, very little time passed at all
limpid agate
Your point at stake is not a point.
peak escarp
it was like taking a nap
limpid agate
You have nothing to prove
placid fulcrum
but it did pass
peak escarp
and?
limpid agate
"Tracer means time travel exists"
With your 1 directional definition of time travel, sure.
So what
"A second tracer could exist"
Incredibly extremely infinitely unlikely
Its borderline impossible
You want to see someone adapting time travel tech?
Sombra
There's your second time traveller
placid fulcrum
how do you cope with sigma's powers if your brain cannot handle the idea of a two-directional time travel?
limpid agate
She is capable of blinking out of existence
And re-appearing elsewhere
We havent seen the feats of appearing sometime else
But you could argue that it may not possibly be impossible for her to appear later than when she disappeared
Is it likely?
Not really
But there's your closest possible comparison to Tracer 2
Sombra maybe possibly
placid fulcrum
it's more than likely, it's canon
limpid agate
Source
placid fulcrum
she isntantly traveled months into the future
limpid agate
Source.
frosty shell
Apart from that "when" thing it didn't say that
placid fulcrum
"no one knew where - or when - i'd gone"
peak escarp
it's too vague to be certain of anything
limpid agate
There are 2 possibilities. Probably 3, but Ill point out the two big ones.
1 - Tracer was conscious during the time skip.
2 - Tracer was unconscious during the time skip.
The first one defiles your idea of time travel
The second favours it
We don't know which holds true
placid fulcrum
tracers consciousness has nothing to do with this
she could be unconscious but still in some place for 6 month, maybe asleep but still physically there
time travel would be if she instantly moved from one point in time to another
limpid agate
If she was consciously unexistent for 6 months
Then appears 6 months later
Did she really time travel?
Or did she simply just not exist in the physical plane
I suppose the 3rd point is:
3 - The time skip was instant
So your 3 possibilities are:
- Conscious - Not time travel
- Unconscious - Mei time travel
- Instant - Time travel
placid fulcrum
the fact that her condition has "chronal" in it and time travel is repeatedly used in the description of her powers tells me that it's time travel pwoers not nonexistence powers
limpid agate
So
Baptiste has something called an immortality field
I doubt you could survive swallowing a grenade in it.
placid fulcrum
is the immortality field canon, or jsut for gameplay purpsoes?
peak escarp
the pseudo-science explanation for Tracer's disappearance is that she was out of phase with the timeline, making her invisible
limpid agate
Resurrect is also canon.
placid fulcrum
because canonically ana's bullets don't magically decide whether to heal or harm based on her emotions towards the target, canonically she consciously swaps the bullet
limpid agate
Mercy used it in Zero Hour
But Mercy cannot bring back the dead.
The names are just names
placid fulcrum
she did canoncially though
frosty shell
You really don't understand the lore
limpid agate
Mei was not dead.
peak escarp
we are well aware of what abilities are/are not canon
placid fulcrum
then she didn't
frosty shell
Sorry I was being a bit hostile
placid fulcrum
you're the one who told me that she did
frosty shell
Mei wasn't dead
limpid agate
But the ability that is called "resurrect" was used by Mercy on Mei.
frosty shell
Exactly
limpid agate
Names don't mean shit
peak escarp
she even says the voice line from the game - "Let's get you back in the fight."
peak escarp
it's functionally a burst of nanobiotic healing that gets someone who is incapacitated back on their feet
placid fulcrum
but tracer's powers are canonically linked to time travel. we see this outside the gameplay
limpid agate
With whatever semantic you want to argue about time travel
placid fulcrum
again "no one knew where - or when - i'd gone"
peak escarp
she travels along her own timeline, yes
limpid agate
She cannot go back in time.
And her being able to go forward is dubious
That's not a concrete source.
There are 3 possibilities about what happened over those months
1 is time travel, 1 is not time travel, 1 is debatably time travel.
We dont know which it is
Theyre all equally likely
But we cant assume which it is
limpid agate
Based on what
placid fulcrum
based on the fact that we get new heroes with new previously unheard of powers and weapons, and devices
limpid agate
That's not proof
peak escarp
okay, so another character might. so what? why bother debating something that may or may not happen?
placid fulcrum
I wonder that as well Doctor_Six
limpid agate
There is a pyromancer living in the core of the Earth.
placid fulcrum
why are you so admaant to argue that it's impossible
peak escarp
you're the one who brought it up
limpid agate
Just meditating for the past 10 years
Equally likely
To your backwards-in-time time travelers
placid fulcrum
I literally just said that it's possible for there to be a time-travelling character. and then you proceeded to argue with me over it for over an hour
why is that, I wodner?
limpid agate
Because you are arguing its possible for there to be a backwards in time time traveller
placid fulcrum
because it is
limpid agate
Source
peak escarp
a <1% chance is still positive possibility
limpid agate
Tracer is not a source
placid fulcrum
or even not a character, but a device that could do it
limpid agate
Neither is Sigma
Lack of proof isn't proof
Lack of disproof isnt proof either.
Your source is nothing
Because there is nothing
Its not worth discussing
placid fulcrum
is that's you philosophy, try to prove to me the existence of literally any character, weapon or ability not yet seen in the game
go ahead
I'll be waiting
limpid agate
There is 0 merit in arguing the existence of supernatural powers that do not yet exist in Overwatch.
limpid agate
Is it a natural power?
placid fulcrum
yeah, but it's still there
limpid agate
They're the exception
Not the rule.
They've been defined.
And they exist.
You cant just exist that there is someone who can turn the blood in someone's veins into scissors
placid fulcrum
and if these heroes hadn't been introduced yet, and I brought up the possibility of them existing , you'd also argue with me for an hour
so what's even the point of me talking to someone who's obviously jsut disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing?
limpid agate
Or that there is a character who smokes cigars, and then blows out meteorites.
placid fulcrum
i'm wasting my time here
limpid agate
This is a discussion channel for the lore of Overwatch
You're coming in with unsourced bullshit.
placid fulcrum
I thought I could come here for nice lore discussions, not for petty arguments
sad to see I was wrong
peak escarp
you're not discussing lore that exists
peak escarp
you're going on about "what ifs"
limpid agate
Your source for your backwards-in-time time traveler is the same source I'll use to say that Kylo Ren exists.
placid fulcrum
you were the ones who started the discussion on potential new characters
limpid agate
Or a character with equal powers to Kylo ren
peak escarp
I did not
limpid agate
Not literally
placid fulcrum
you have no source for any new character or ability, why did you bother starting this discussion?
limpid agate
Kylo Ren
peak escarp
I only mentioned Helix
limpid agate
I'm ending this and moving on to something worthwhile
you were the ones who started the discussion on potential new characters
Great, lets look at that.
I want to see the return of Sven.
Potential for another builder character, as he is part of Ironclad (formerly)
Also from his upgrades to the Destroyer
We also saw him with a stun gun in the comic.
frosty shell
Yeah Sven could come back
limpid agate
So that could be an interesting weapon or ability.
peak escarp
limpid agate
I've gone off enough about Sanjay too
peak escarp
I still want Kimiko and Mirembe to make another appearance
maybe not as heroes, but they can be some of the support staff that comes back
limpid agate
You can remove Sojourn.
And add the cop from Zero Hour as Face Only, maybe.
I thought she was pretty impressionable, and she is a unique appearing fighter.
Much like the guy from Binary.
peak escarp
I liked her
peak escarp
yeah
twilit nacelleBOT
Comics:
Train Hopper: https://bit.ly/2vaOY0I
Dragon Slayer: https://bit.ly/2GpRZRk
Going Legit: https://bit.ly/2InZUkm
A Better World: https://bit.ly/2DeJGpK
Mission Statement: https://bit.ly/2UFLC5o
Destroyer: https://bit.ly/2XcYZ9G
Legacy: https://bit.ly/2DgM1jQ
Old Soldiers: https://bit.ly/2KLILTV
Junkenstein: https://bit.ly/2Is3WZ4
Reflections: https://bit.ly/2IoZQkr
Binary: https://bit.ly/2IzNvJy
Uprising: https://bit.ly/2UCymhE
Masquerade: https://bit.ly/2IzNTI0
Wasted Land: https://bit.ly/2DeKB9G
Searching: https://bit.ly/2Gh3jy6
Retribution: https://bit.ly/2XePmHG
Mini-Comics:
Return of Junkenstein: https://bit.ly/2Gqp7Z8
Yeti Hunt: https://bit.ly/2VPmxRI
peak escarp
no point in adding Hanan either
placid fulcrum
I'm interested in that omnic talking with doomfist
limpid agate
He's the leader of Null Sector
peak escarp
I also didn't have Fio on that list, since she hasn't been seen in present day
limpid agate
We should learn more about him in Overwatch 2.
placid fulcrum
hard to say if he could be playable
maximilian doens't strike me as a fighter, but this leader might be
peak escarp
I'd like Predator to be playable
mostly because we don't have any "bad guy" omnic heroes
placid fulcrum
Predator? who's that? I' don't see that name on the list
but yes, would be interesting to have a playable villain omnic
peak escarp
that's just what we call the mysterious omnic
it's faster to type (and he kinda looks like the Predator from the movies)
placid fulcrum
oh yeah, he really does
peak escarp
other names I've heard are MOE (mysterious omnic enemy) and Null Hector
placid fulcrum
"null hector" 😂
btw, i've been wondering something
so mnay characters have these lines on their skin, like they've been augmented in some way. and ana used to have a cybernetic eye. is there any human character who hasn't been augmented in any part of their body?
peak escarp
Ashe, Baptiste, Brigitte, D.Va, Hanzo, Lucio, Mei, Mercy, Pharah, Reinhardt, Roadhog and Zarya are all non-augmented humans
Roadhog is questionable, since the radiation may have augmented him
but the rest are definitely untouched humans
peak escarp
well
we don't know exactly what they are/how the dragons work
I'll add Hanzo as questionable too
peak escarp
yeah, possibly
but the mechanism for releasing them could be implanted into Hanzo (making him augmented) or it could be part of his weapon
or some other unseen device
frosty shell
In our other Discord server I pointed out that they might not be able to do any damage
peak escarp
we mean in canon
when Genji redirects it at Hanzo, it passes through him
they probably toned down the damage for the short, but he didn't seem that injured afterwards
frosty shell
Possible
placid fulcrum
there's one detail in reaper's overwier that doens't make much sense
"Survivors have described a black shadow ghosting unscathed through the most hellish battlefields. The few bodies recovered of those he kills are pale, empty husks drained of life, their cells showing signs of intense degradation."
he never showed sings of being able to do this
valid terrace
He does it in Bastet
placid fulcrum
I must've missed it. interesting
valid terrace
Yeah it’s bad enough to overpower Soldier’s healing ability
Has there been any development on the nature or progress of Mei’s ecological meltdown?
Or is it just global warming or something?
Maybe it’s a pyromancer that’s been meditating in the Earth’s core for the last 10 years 🤔
Also have we ever seen the moon when it wasn’t full?
placid fulcrum
yup
we have, on the lunar base mission
you can see the earth, but not the sun, meaning the sun doesn't hit from the direction where from earth's perspective thew moon would be fully visible
placid fulcrum
huh, turns out moira was actually working with talon even before overwatch was disbanded?
so she was a traitor and a double agent all along
shrewd meteor
They should delv more into that
placid fulcrum
speaking of double agents, reaper might be one. his mask bears a strong resemblance to blackwatch's symbol, and I've seen someone speculate that the reason legends about "reaper" date back to when blackwatch was founded is because "reaper" was then just a codename for blackwatch operations, since they were supposed to be a secret. if that's true, then reaper is essentially "blackwatch: the person" now
there's also that one panel where doomfist wonder whether ana and soldier are still alive because reaper still has sentiment left for them
pliant sparrow
So is reaper an urban legend in the overwatch universe?
I can easily see many people being sceptic of his abilities but then again this is a much more advanced time
placid fulcrum
it seems this way
"Some speak of a black-robed terrorist known only as the Reaper. His identity and motives are a mystery. What is known is that where he appears, death follows."
shrewd meteor
I think it's a hereditary title
Much like doomfist
Because the experiments on gabriel were during his active duty in blackwatch
Which Moira participated in
Speculation only
pliant sparrow
But then where would he have inherited it from?
placid fulcrum
moira's paper was described as having been published "a decade" ago, so "reaper" existed at least 10 years before she became involved with reyes. but that doesn't mean he (or "they", if it's a codename)had superpowers then. may have been just a vigilante, dressed in black robe
in fact, is another reaper existed before blackwatch was founded, the blackwatch symbol could've been inspired by him
so in this scenario reyes killed this "reaper" but found his activities inspiring (because he didn't follow the rules, which allowed him more freedom), so he formed blackwatch and stylized it after the original reaper. after blackwatch's dissolution, he decided to become a reaper himself
alpine jackal
i believe reyes was always reaper in disguise
always a talon agent working behind the scenes
worthy rose
See that's where I disagree
Cause Jack Morrison joined the army at 18 and Reyes was in it since 20.
They've been nonstop fighting the omnic crisis and then became heads of OW and BW respectively. Both have been shown to be idealistic men who would do almost anything for peace and to make the world a better place. Saying this was a major long con is too big of a stretch given that kind of history.
alpine jackal
Then why did reyes turn?
placid fulcrum
I agree with kaeore. reyes doens't strike me as a traitor. if the legendary reaper was him all along, then he probably wasn't doing this on the orders of talon, but acting as a vigilante, much like soldier is doing now
alpine jackal
Overwatch fell, so he chose to become some soul-sucking terrorist who joined the organization he swore to destroy?
Something clearly happened that made him join Talon
placid fulcrum
I find that surprising as well
hence why I hope we'll get more backstory with overwatch 2
alpine jackal
Yep
2 things going on here: His hatred at Jack for his causes in Overwatch and Blackwatch's downfall, (as well as the war taking a toll on reyes) made him join talon only for that reason, or 2: Hes long conning Talon himself, while getting revenge on those that led to OW's / BW's downfall
I mean SOMETHING'S happened that made him turn, I really hope OW2 expands on that
placid fulcrum
I hope for 2. double agent reaper would be a great twist
alpine jackal
Something interesting yes. He hates jack and ana still, and wants revenge, but he still hates talon too
Hes serving himself
alpine jackal
Yea, although no clue if reaper can even age
placid fulcrum
a heroic sacrifice is his destiny
alpine jackal
yeah in a way
hes still a bad person imo, hes killed a LOT of people, but I believe he still will turn against talon
pliant sparrow
Reaper might be unkillable through most means short of vaporisation
He might also be unable to survive in a vacuum
peak escarp
I've been a fan of the "Reaper is an urban legend inspired by Blackwatch/Reyes" theory for a long time
pliant sparrow
Do we know if oxygen deprivation affects him?
I'm assuming it does since he's still made of cells
placid fulcrum
it's possible that his unstable condition will eventually kill him
edgy path
anyways.... we need teh lore of zen tho :C
peak escarp
why?
pliant sparrow
Zen doesnt have much relevance to anything going on except genji
grand wedge
Yet.
peak escarp
Zen will get lore when he is important to the story, in OW2
grand wedge
How the omnic and the Shambali will respond to Null Sector global threat? It’ll be really interesting
peak escarp
personally I don't find Zenyatta that interesting, but his story will include Genji, and I'm down for that
grand wedge
He is the character with less lore so it’s hard to find him interesting but I played him a lot and love him so that’s why I need more lore - and I bet a lot of people who play Zen feel the same
marble wigeon
Zenyatta fascinates me on concept but they really don't do anything with him
At least so far
grand wedge
And what is the Iris !!!
peak escarp
I play Zen all the time
I'm curious to know what Zen's purpose was before finding enlightenment, but that's about it
grand wedge
How did they break there programming to become sentient beings during the first crisis and decided to create a religion intrigued me
peak escarp
that's not specific to Zen, that's more worldbuilding
marble wigeon
I'm fine with them skimming past that tbh
How they became sentient isn't really a big deal to the world as is
peak escarp
they might not have an explanation for why
maybe they just did and nobody knows why
I just like the thought of pre-enlightenment Zen being a cashier or shop-bot or something
limpid agate
All I'm interested in is where he is from
peak escarp
like, what omnium?
shut stratus
like owu?
pliant sparrow
A character I really want to see more of is orisa
limpid agate
Like what country would be considered his origin
Like, is Bastion German or Swedish?
Or Orisa Numbani or Nigerian?
Is Zen Nepali, or something European?
I would say German, Numbani, and Unknown for those 3.
pliant sparrow
Do we know where numbani is on the map?
pliant sparrow
Had a feeling it was somewhere in Western Africa
Hopefully my geography hasn't let me down there
limpid agate
Its presumably within Nigeria
grand wedge
Yes it’s world building but we have more chances to have this world building through Zen lore. I’d love to see were he was « born » too
pliant sparrow
Wonder if we'd get a story mission telling a characters backstory
Such as zarya fighting for Russia
Or if we'll get to fight the gwishin
peak escarp
I do think we will get a mission against the Gwishin though, where some Overwatch heroes team up with D.Va
worthy rose
I'd rather get the MEKA heroes tbh
peak escarp
I'd like Overlord or Casino
shell jay
If they put MEKA heroes into the game they wouldnt be like D.Va where shes two characters, Mech and Person, because Blizzard said that that system was extremely hard to put in the game and should not be remade
Moira I think if you watch her origin story @dull olive
dull olive
Yeah that’s what I thought when I watched the origin stories
But I thought I read ages ago that mercey did
Have the lores changed?
limpid agate
@shell jay Not necessarily.
dull olive
I stopped playing for ages
limpid agate
@dull olive Mercy had nothing to do with Reaper
Never did
It was a common misconception.
Someone made a theory using fabricated evidence to say Mercy did it.
dull olive
My life is a lie
shell jay
Even though Reaper says "you tell me doc" when she asks "what happened to you?"doesnt mean she did that to him
I've assumed it was Moira due to the picture of her and Reyes in her Origin video
shell jay
thank you I was trying to send it but I dont have permissions @peak escarp
peak escarp
any evidence pointing to Mercy's involvement was either completely fabricated ("don't forget, you're the one responsible for this") or subject to individual interpretation ("you tell me, doc")
it's also a misconception that Genji, Reyes and Jack ever actually died - they were all just near death or believed to be dead, but survived
valid terrace
Ana too if you want one that we knew about
peak escarp
those were just the three I've heard people say that Mercy resurrected
dusty cairn
But mercy's resurrection in lore isn't canon tho
they probably meant that she healed them when they were in a near death state
limpid agate
It is canon. But not how you think
She used it on Mei in Zero Hour
Mei was very not dead.
shell jay
Her arm was I'm going to guess broken or hurt so she was unable to move it
I don't know exactly how she healed it without her staff though
Maybe a new ability in Ow2
limpid agate
Its not a new ability
Its an existing ability
Its called Resurrect.
She healed Mei the same way she (presumably) self-heals
Suggesting that the biotic tech is integrated with her suit
shell jay
Oh, I didn't really think of that
I was just playing on Oasis University and in one of the spawns there was this big black spike ball that was being inspected by the bots, it looks somewhat important, is it just there for show or do you thi k it could be important
peak escarp
probably just for show
limpid agate
Hmmm
Random half-based speculation
- Ferrofluid exists in University
- Hamid Faisal is an Archeologist (Read: Scholar) with ties to Oasis
Magnetism could be part of his kit?
They worked on Magnetism before with Hammond but didnt like how he did it
frosty shell
It could be part of the system Moira used on Reaper
grave talon
ngl but Im very curious about what they plan to do with Sombra and esp Reaper
Thinking about it, imo Sombra seems very chaotic neutral. She seems to have the right mind with Taking Down People In Power Who Are Lying but shes too sarcastic to be a 100% good guy or have a complete affiliation.
And she seems to be in Talon for more access to info (and maybe even info on members in Talon) she doesnt even really take Reaper, a inner council member, that seriously and even lied to him and Widowmaker about Volskaya
As for Reaper I've seen some theories saying that hes brainwashed and ngl but I'm lowkey leaning towards that. As Gabriel he was all against Talon and now hes a inner council member of it. (Maybe Moira did a little bit more then just turning him into Reaper) I've seen some say that hes a double agent. And part of me is like yea maybe? He seems a bit too hellbent on killing all ex Overwatch members. Almost like hes been brainwashed or reprogrammed into it 👀
However, if he does come to his senses like "Hm. Maybe I should rejoin to at least take down Talon" Talon will def come after him. But how can you take down a guy who can just turn into a shadow and regenerate? Light. And by light, Moiras coalescence. Maybe Moira will take down her own creation?
Anyways, as for Sombra: will she join Overwatch? Will she become a double agent and give over info to Overwatch from Talon? Will she stay with Talon? Will she become her own affiliation?
And what about Reaper? Can he be cured? IS there a cure? (And by cure I don't mean like. making him 100% human again because I doubt thats possible at this point. At least making it so hes not in constant pain, or knowing what his condition is) Will he die? Who will kill him or how will he die?
Anyways I see we're discussing Reaper a bit and I'm curious and tbh kinda saddened by his story, and I've been Overwatch for about a month now n just kinda. wanted to share some things I've observed and kinda hyped about! :]
shell jay
Damn didn't expect to read a whole news article
But you make a good point
These are really good ideas, I think Sombra wants power for herself
Maybe just being her own person and not having to work for anyone like Talon or Overwatch
@grave talon
grave talon
Yea I def do think she may start leaning more towards that area. With Overwatch coming back and Talon probably going under fire from them again she may bail
shell jay
In Infiltration she went with her own thing and blackmailed Katya Volskaya which I believe isn't what she was supposed to do
She also keeps 'friends' like Katya most likely for her own personal need
grave talon
That wasnt to the plan at all either 👀
Also in one of the comics its revealed that Reaper knew this all along. Which makes me curious if Sombra does leave, maybe Reaper will had enough and go after her since he does seem annoyed by her from in-game voice lines
shell jay
I feel like Reaper would turn on Sombra very quickly judging by how much she annoys her, I can imagine him attacking her or something she did, it seems like no one in the talon members we have in game like her that much judging by in game voice lines
When widow kills Sombra she'll say "Big mouth, big target"
I'm not sure on Moira, Doomfist, and Sigmas thoughts on her
pliant sparrow
If reaper dies it'll probably be either his own ability that kills him, incineration or suffocation
shell jay
But it's clear to me Reaper and Widow dislike her