Unimportant characters can become important, like Bastion or Mei
#lore-discussion
north flame
I'm going to be honest, Lucio really seemed far from someone who was going to be unimportant, just like a lot of the young cast. It was pretty obvious they were all going to be a major part sometime in the future
And I wouldn't really call the stuff you considered shitposting from Water shitposting. That's a far stretch
supple bear
So in the Valkyrie short story, Mercy mentions helix and the US army as Jacks enemies which (correct me if im wrong) is referring to when he stole his heavy pulse rifle
but how is germanys largest bank one of jacks enemies?
valid terrace
He robbed it for resources as well as several other Helix compounds
Possibly also owned by Max?
Pure speculation on that but it speaks to motive
limpid agate
Also insurance fraud, probably
supple bear
do we know what resources he was trying to obtain?
peak escarp
he took weapons/ammo from Helix and the US army
the news reported that he always avoided lethal force
This event comes after a week during which multiple former Overwatch bases were targeted. In each case, the intruder stole experimental weaponry and other military equipment from the facilities. Guerra has confirmed that similar items were taken from Watchpoint: Grand Mesa, including a prototype for a heavy pulse rifle.
Guerra would not comment on the intruder's identity, which remains a mystery. However, he stated that the assailant is connected with a series of recent attacks at financial institutions and corporate buildings around the country. "Multiple US government agencies are working together to track down this dangerous individual," Guerra said. "Rest assured that we will bring him to justice."
peak escarp
if he's attacking financial institutions in America then doing the same in Europe is likely
we don't exactly know why he was attacking them though
why would he attack corporations too?
maybe he was targeting companies/institutions with Talon connections
limpid agate
Food costs money, and I don't think he's gonna rob some poor shopkeeper blind
peak escarp
that still doesn't explain attacking corporate buildings
Soldier being hunted by several US government agencies reminds me that his global travels is kinda just handwaved
with the TSA being what it is, he probably doesn't fly commercial flights
frosty shell
That's always been a slight problen
Not as much as how Roadhog and Junkrat get around though
The corporate buildings is likely Soldier doing some investigation
On Dorado, he says something about investigating LumeriCo doesn't he?
peak escarp
frosty shell
Yep that
So it makes sense he might be doing similar things at suspicious American organizations
Ooh I have a theory on why Jack is called Soldier: 76 by the press
Perhaps authorities found some of his DNA, and it matched what the Army had on file for Soldier #76 from the SEP, but the name was still classified?
frosty shell
I know that
But that could've been after they applied the moniker to him
I don't think Morrison would've wanted to be that public
peak escarp
Jack was #76, he wears a jacket with that number (for whatever reason), the press calls him Soldier: 76 as a result
frosty shell
The FBI could've seen the DNA ID'd as "Soldier: 76" and that's the name the media stuck with?
Do we know if Morrison knew that Reyes survived the explosion before they met in Cairo?
If he did, then him wearing the 76 jacket would be him painting an even bigger target on his back
Also, if they just saw the "76" why would they give him the same codename he had in the SEP?
peak escarp
coincidence
brazen river
He probably had a small guess that, like him, reyes survived, but i dont thin k he knew.
yeah, probably a coincidence
frosty shell
Makes sense @brazen river
brazen river
ahhh i was gonna say he recongized the voice, but i didnt know whether he had heard reyes before cairo
peak escarp
afaik this is their first interaction we see, chronologically
frosty shell
Well they were 20-year colleauges
Also, I wonder if Morrison ever saw or knew about Reyes's smoke powers before the explosion
brazen river
i mean as commander of overwatch im sure he accidently saw it when reyes thought he wasnt around or something
peak escarp
he didn't seem too shocked by it in Old Soldiers, but there wasn't much time to show his response to it
even in Bastet it wasn't really discussed
frosty shell
If they had an intense fight before the HQ blew up, he could've seen it there
That'd be cool to see if we ever see the HQ fight happen
brazen river
possible side pve mission in overwatch 2? maybe soldier having a flashback or something, and you have to do the fight as him
frosty shell
They both tell their stories from their own sides (perhaps to Ana and Sombra) and their versions give different takes
peak escarp
PvE is always 4 players
I don't think they'd do that
I see it being covered in an animated short
frosty shell
Or a comic
An idea I had is that Jack would blame Moira for Reyes going crazy, but he would insist he was always crazy and was just good at hiding it
peak escarp
who would insist who was always crazy?
so far the only one to blame Moira for Reaper's condition/abilities was Ana
That damned scientist, Ana thought with disgust.
frosty shell
Reyes would insist he was always crazy
frosty shell
Would he? Admittedly I'm going off of his psychopath voiceline which is not a good place to turn for canon (yes I know he's doing a twist on what Sherlock says in Sherlock)
peak escarp
Reaper is mentally sound
and several interactions indicate that except for his snap decision to shoot Antonio, he is a meticulous planner who isn't spontaneous and doesn't improvise
frosty shell
You're probably right
I do really want to find out how and why he joined Talon
We still don't have a clear answer
peak escarp
it's funny that Reyes was considered too "maverick" for the leadership position
considering how much of a planner he is shown to be
maybe that was code for something
peak escarp
Morrison was actually given the top position of power and Reyes was overlooked because he was too rogue, he was too maverick in his leadership style--he ruffled too many feathers.
I think it just means he didn't like following orders from the UN
Jack was a good soldier who followed orders
and looked better on recruitment posters
worthy rose
so, considering sigma says "release me" in reverse in his origin story, what do you guys think this means? what do you guys think is up with sigma's mental state?
gray nimbus
One thing that's been on my mind since playing a week ago
What happened to Australia?
sharp pollen
A omnic factory exploded
Because the residents didn't want to coexcist with omnics so they rebelled and eventually ...
worthy rose
what happened to singapore?
peak escarp
Singapore was where Doomfist was caught
pastel plank
@worthy rose i like to think that sigma have 3 personality. The calm, brainwashed, zero fucks sigma we play as. The neurotic, twisted one who whispers to us when flux is activated. And the original sigma seeking science shit. Maybe his original self is trying to break free from talon or idk @worthy rose
worthy rose
interesting theory
terse hedge
w
worthy rose
I mean it was already done via the arg so like not much to go on about it
pliant sparrow
Wonder how split personalities could be handled in the overwatch universe
Do we know if tracers ailment could affect someone’s mental state?
worthy rose
Doesnt sigma have a split personality disorder or something like that
valid terrace
Think of his brain as a mashed potato rather than a sliced one
It’s all muddled together and random
Rather than different personalities taking over
worthy rose
Great analogy haha
valid terrace
He has become more aggressive but that’s probably due to trauma of the accident itself more than the black hole brain part
worthy rose
Mhm
Really hope all the characters are gonna be involved in overwatch 2 somehow
Even if they're not really part of the greater story
valid terrace
At the bare minimum each gets a new default skin representative of their current mental and physical position
worthy rose
Yeah
valid terrace
But a lot of new lore for the ones directly OW or Talon
worthy rose
Feel like skins cant really represent mental states too well though
Mhm
I wonder what role dva is gonna play
valid terrace
eg. Genji’s skin
worthy rose
Like is she ever gonna be mentioned?
valid terrace
She will be a side character it’s speculated
worthy rose
Yeah probably
Kinda feel like overwatch 2 is gonne be a missed opportunity if they only focus on the core cast of maybe 5 characters or so
It should be a story driven game, where every heros lore is not only explored but also developed yknow
Thatd be amazing
valid terrace
There will be hero missions as well but the scale of their lore impact is unknown
valid terrace
Nope
worthy rose
There are like 6 individual and seperate stories with different characters and settings
I mean it all takes place during ww1
Feel like that could work for overwatch
valid terrace
I don’t think the scope will be that wide
But I agree that it would work
It’s just harder to make when the story needs 4 playable characters
valid terrace
Fair but at its core it’s still a group game
You would still need tanks and healers
worthy rose
Yeah, but blizzars is promoting it as a separate one
Its more of an expansion, isnt it?
valid terrace
It’s not like McCree, for all his badassery, can crush an army with his current mechanics
Yes
worthy rose
Mhm
valid terrace
It’s still group tho
valid terrace
Like archives or Junkenstein
worthy rose
Probably
valid terrace
Not really but this is starting to leave the lore focus of the channel
worthy rose
Mhm
solid flax
OH GOD WHY!??!?!
That is not an INT. Ball moved around a lot.
Replay is used at State Championship Game
QB is bleeding from his bottom lip
TD Pleasant Grove on a massive run after an overturned INT call
limpid agate
@solid flax This is the lore channel, keep the American football outside.
peak escarp
Sigma doesn't have a split personality
that was just a stylistic choice for the origin story
valid terrace
Exactly
It goes through the event in a way that’s just as disorienting for us as it is him
peak escarp
it was supposed to represent his fractured mind and how he perceives the world
teal meadow
Sorry if i'm late to the topic, but about the discussion of:
Kinda feel like overwatch 2 is gonne be a missed opportunity if they only focus on the core cast of maybe 5 characters or so
It's probably gonna be like this, and we probably get expansions/dlc for some side characters like dva and the junkers
At least if they don't give us a copypaste about lucio's role in ow 2 and they eventually become part of the new ow
iron plume
new ow already has around double that and they’ll likely have missions joining up with others for a round
raw nova
i would kill for a junrat roadhog backstory
if you think about it they are kinda underdeveloped story wse
wise
teal meadow
Still, they don't know any healers to make a pve mission
iron plume
Their backstory is Wasted Land
They’re among the most lore rich characters in the game, especially for how irrelevant they are
there’s also Going Legit and (sort of) The Plan
teal meadow
they're just the comic relief of ow
iron plume
Junk sort of, Hog hardly
spark scaffold
Hog is comic relief
He has the silent but smart cliche you can see it in theshort
frosty totem
peak escarp
Roadhog is the straight man to Junkrat's comedy
but I agree - they've had a lot of exposure for two that are supposed to just be comic relief
pulsar estuary
is widowmaker lesbian?
pliant sparrow
We don’t know most characters preference
frosty dragon
well traser is lesbian that we know
prime dome
And Soldier's gay too
peak escarp
it's not important to the story
peak escarp
so far the only relationship important to the story was Amelie (aka Widowmaker) and Gerard
but her sexuality is irrelevant
devout sable
@peak escarp I wouldn't say it bears no importance at all, it is after all a part of who these characters are
lament prawn
no importance to the story
it gives the character some depth sure, but it doesnt add or take away from the plot
peak escarp
yes, that's what I mean
teal meadow
The world doesn't spin around someone's sexuality, why would it work in overwatch lore?
peak escarp
exactly
teal meadow
The story is about them wanting to protect people, not for them to wishing to fuck them
devout sable
are you saying relationships don't play any role in these characters' stories? 🤔
teal meadow
In this lore
No
If they ever get a romantic moment, ok. Doesn't mean the story is focused about making couples
devout sable
it isn't the core focus, no
but I don't see any harm in casually including it, no different from how you'd include straight relationships
teal meadow
Straight or not straight, there's no reason to force relationships in the lore. Half of the characters are already married or never cared anyway
limpid agate
so far the only relationship important to the story was Amelie (aka Widowmaker) and Gerard
Brigitte/Pharah as well
Their births I mean. The parent relationships
You can argue the others are important in other ways
Tracer/Emily is the protagonist's obligatory relationship
Soldier/Vincent and Reaper/Wife (presumed) also factor in another layer to their opposites
Just confirming his wife would be enough. A name could be useful I guess. Beyond that, I dont care
elder scaffold
Overwatch isn’t some kind of romance anime but characters relationships do provide important lore sometimes. Like as you said widowmakers husband but blizzard can’t go very far with too much romance because Overwatch isn’t about that, it’s a militaristic shooting game about a war, not a rom com
bright sigil
Overwatch: the dating sim
peak escarp
my original statement wasn't about relationships
it was about sexualities
Soldier's sexuality is irrelevant to the fact that he couldn't have a meaningful relationship due to being married to his work
elder scaffold
Yeah sorry I didn’t scroll up there
peak escarp
if Vincent had been Vanessa the message would have been the same
elder scaffold
I agree to that, it’s hard to believe he could love someone more than he loved his work
peak escarp
relationships are good for giving the heroes motivation or developing their backstory, but I don't see any relationship being important enough to affect the plot
devout sable
I mean, it's not really a bad thing they used this for LGBTQ rep tho
peak escarp
no, I love it
it just doesn't change their character (and if it changes your opinion of them you might want to look at your own prejudices)
limpid agate
Soldier being gay and Reapet being straight is an extra layer of opposites
Aside from that
Only Torb and Ana needed to be straight for them to create their child
Widow and Tracer don't matter
They could have gone either way
smoky aurora
Yeah
valid terrace
Besides needing to be straight to have biological kids, Tracer is the only one I feel like there wasn’t as much of a choice in
Like, it’s would be fine for her to have a boyfriend, but it would contradict parts of her character I feel
peak escarp
technically you don't need to be straight to have biological kids
valid terrace
Fair
peak escarp
just attracted to a compatible partner
valid terrace
If you have surrogates or donors and such
Kind of feels like cheating though
Like anyone could have kids in that regard
peak escarp
it is generally assumed though, if a character is seen with a partner of the opposite sex, then they are straight
valid terrace
Primarily straight yeah
valid terrace
I feel like they are equally important
peak escarp
just personal preference
valid terrace
Family, specifically parents, can lead to more clues than interactions alone, so I would put those as the most desirable relationships to learn about
Not that most characters should have those connections
But ones like Ashe or Hanzo, where we already know the basics, could have more depth shown without disrupting their current characters
peak escarp
every time I see a post complaining about how characters haven't aged I'm reminded that we don't have an official timeline with numbers and I really hope we get one in OW2
"OW was disbanded for 20 years before Winston sent the Recall, how is Tracer still 26? Why have only Soldier and Ana aged?" 
paper gazelle
I think there's a reason why they don't offer an official timeline with the exact dates
zenith prawn
I've heard "2070s" thrown around multiple times but is that official in any way?
peak escarp
x years since the crisis
that sort of timeline
@zenith prawn the Storm Rising teaser mentioned Don Rumbotico being unknown outside of Cuba until 2060
so we know it's at least after 2066
zenith prawn
That makes sense.
peak escarp
but "x before recall" is used for a lot of sources, and should be commonly known
valid terrace
I think hard dates, even as far off as this one, just build false expectations for when those dates inevitably come up, just look at back to the future for a recent example
peak escarp
I'm not asking for hard dates (although that would be nice)
worthy rose
Would hard years be better?
peak escarp
what we have now is good enough, I just want it listed somewhere that's easy to reference
I don't want to have to link 4 videos and 3 comics just to point out the timeline
I shouldn't have to quote a 4 year old article to tell someone Overwatch was disbanded 5 years ago
solid flax
I think winston might be a spy for doom fist
peak escarp
why?
solid flax
Because he say something like “the power of doom fist of the 13th alliance=
peak escarp
he does not
solid flax
I saw it
peak escarp
source?
solid flax
In the forum
twilit nacelleBOT
Shitposting will result in a loss of access.
solid flax
?
peak escarp
you can't just make things up without a valid source
solid flax
I don’t remember where it was I just saw it on archives forum
steady jasper
Why can’t blizzard make a zenyatta lore
He’s been in the game for years and it’s just outrageous
peak escarp
they are making Zen lore
steady jasper
Really!?
steady jasper
Ooooooooo
steady jasper
Have you guys just been the lowest leveled person on the team and you get more kills than the gold rank player ._.
round egret
What is the lore of zarya?
peak escarp
she is a world-champion weightlifter who abandoned the competition to protect her country when the second omnic crisis broke out
her weapon is a tank gun
round egret
Sick
And what about in the trailer when the Russian lady sent zarya after sombra. What happened then?
opaque tundra
sinful ridge
what's with Sigma and his music stuff
little sedge
Somebody @ me and explain me what lore is please
limpid agate
@sinful ridge Its speculated to be Musica Universalis. Google that, its kinda lengthy to explain.
@little sedge The story. It's just a definition. You could have googled that.
Its just a word
worthy rose
why does overwatch 2 exist
when the trailer came out i was so surprised and a tiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiny bit disappointed
daring scaffold
why?
worthy rose
i was like, these look like extension stuff
the robots didn't make sense to me the most
why didn't they just add it on the original game
some stuff looks cool like the new designs and other stuff but wow
like what about other lore just make it an update
empty rain
To rake more people and money in a new triple A title isn't going to go unnoticed by gamers. There's probably more reasoning, but there's one of the main ones.
worthy rose
just add interesting stuff in the main game, man lmao
worthy rose
but you'll still get hype if there's like a cool update
just call the update something cool like what minecraft does
daring scaffold
yes but not as much if they made a sequel
worthy rose
not really for me anyways
empty rain
That and for a competitive and viewer standpoint the graphics will make the game more fun to watch for people. Overwatch league will adapt and the seats bought to watch teams play off on this new adaption of Overwatch will sell out fast.
daring scaffold
the sequel got a lot of people talking about it, any form of publicity to the game is good publicity. much more people will pay attention to the sequel than if there was a big update. and what sleeepy said too.
it just makes more sense from blizzards view
empty rain
More money more publicity more eye candy
daring scaffold
exactly
worthy rose
makes sense but look at minecraft's big updates tho people still talk about it and they get hyped and mani. Overwatch 2 is like a big update but also an extension
daring scaffold
even if people don't like the fact that its a sequel and not an update, they will still buy it, for full price. it doesn't matter if people are upset. they'll still make hella money and publicity from it.
minecraft is much different from overwatch though
it wouldn't work like that
worthy rose
yeah i know but what i mean is it doesn't make sense that they could've just made overwatch 2 an update
it's an add on
worthy rose
but i get it
daring scaffold
it really does make sense though
worthy rose
i'm just saying c h i l l
daring scaffold
i am
worthy rose
i don't wanna get into an argument with someone like toxic one
worthy rose
it's just the way that you respond to things that made me say that
empty rain
Interesting development
daring scaffold
true
worthy rose
like it sounds aggressive to me h a h
daring scaffold
ok please stop continuing it
we understand
anyways, on to something about overwatch lore
paper gazelle
Firstly, the current engine isn't capable enough to handle PvE well. Overwatch 2 runs on the updated engine that can handle larger maps etc. to better meet the demands about PvE.
worthy rose
yeah
paper gazelle
And then people also wanted a story mode
daring scaffold
that makes a lot of sense too
paper gazelle
In fact Jeff and the team had an idea for OW2 when the game first came out
Largely
paper gazelle
And then they had this wild idea to 'redefine a sequel'
worthy rose
both compe and storymode?
paper gazelle
OW2 will come with radical changes for multiplayer maybe
Btw maybe we should go to #overwatch
daring scaffold
idk i don't have strong feelings for the sequel, i'll buy it either way
i don't think it's as big of a deal as people are making it out to be
worthy rose
me too
worthy rose
it's still an update/extension to me
paper gazelle
Multiplayer won't be adversely affected much
worthy rose
i hope
paper gazelle
At least
daring scaffold
if you don't wanna spend money because it's an update in the form of a sequel then thats fine. just don't buy it lol. some people really get upset over very solvable things. the entire trailer video comment section is just people mad
about it
paper gazelle
This whole unconventional sequel approach will probably grow on u after a few years ;)
paper gazelle
And speaking about designs
daring scaffold
i think it's cool. i've been playing since release and i'd love to see where the sequel goes.
worthy rose
y e s
paper gazelle
Some new character designs show character development
daring scaffold
true omg
paper gazelle
Others mostly show the passing of time
worthy rose
i wanna see zenyatta
daring scaffold
why tf would it be free? whoever is spreading that rumor should rethink that lol
the #1 reason for ow 2 IS the money
worthy rose
yeah exactly
paper gazelle
OW multiplayer may go f2p after OW2 comes out. It can potentially enlarge the playerbase
OW2 PvE? Nah
worthy rose
wtf i just bought that shiz i'll be sad but meh about it being f2p
daring scaffold
i did hear overwatch multi would go free. it WOULD make sense but we'd have to see.
paper gazelle
You can't expect the Devs to work for you for free
worthy rose
yeah
worthy rose
AAAAAAAAAAA
daring scaffold
i'm excited. i'm a sucker for good lore and a good game and i'd probably play the heck out of it, seeing as i've put so many damn hours into the multiplayer lol
worthy rose
if the lore is not good i will yeet myself out of the window. But OW lore hasn't disappointed me so far so
daring scaffold
i kinda wish there were more characters though. i need some change
maybe that's just me
i love the characters already though lol
sometimes it just seems like there aren't a lot
worthy rose
me too
some people aren't big fans anymore because blizzard hasn't fed them more content
but i'm fine with that
i mean them taking a long time making stuff
each of their heroes are good and i'm willing to wait because that wait is hella worth it and making characters takes a long time
daring scaffold
i mean no matter how much i complain about it, i still play lol. i do wish there was more content, and personally i was really disappointed by the new winter skins, but it's all good. and yeah i agree with you
worthy rose
i wish they'd do more short films and origin story
daring scaffold
same omg
worthy rose
same same i also still play
the reason i played in the first place was because of lore
i met mercy and then everyone else followed
i had a short short crush on mercy
daring scaffold
i wanna know more about mercy, i want another character like mercy that has something in the lore to do with mercy
i really like her
worthy rose
me too
daring scaffold
i think shes a great character
paper gazelle
Zero hour lol
paper gazelle
Other than that... No
worthy rose
i saw this clip where mercy grabbed this kid and i was baited i thought it was a shortfilm it was just a clip from we are overwatch
paper gazelle
Well OW2 story mode will feature tons of in game cinematics/cut scenes
worthy rose
HAH
me too
idk if i'm allowed to talk about another game in this server
so i wont
there's this other game that's also good and they have a lot of money and they also make good animations and i wont even mind them making a series
like damn that animation is like jesus on the eyes
daring scaffold
which game
lament prawn
like damn that animation is like jesus on the eyes
someone put this on a shirt or something
peak escarp
OW2 will be great for this channel
valid terrace
First we have the book and at least one character though
solid flax
So did foxy cause the bite of 87 or was it a hoax?
limpid agate
Moving swiftly onwards.
worthy rose
Yeah it is great for ow2
worthy rose
Torbjorn made bastion what the hell
no
torb revived bastion
or fixed
Torbjorn fixed bastion what the hell
peak escarp
Torbjorn helped design the bastion model of omnic originally
he didn't directly make bastions
peak escarp
because that's not how it works
worthy rose
But he helped design bastikn shhihd fhrh be able to fix him th ohmmmmmmm
peak escarp
he might
but not instantly
and Bastion doesn't seem to need any fixing
it works just fine
worthy rose
But it wouldnt he cool loee wuse if thr man godfbodf could fix bastion
peak escarp
what
worthy rose
It woulsbeh foolvif the man torbjor. Would fix bastion
worthy rose
It woyld ev cool ig the nab torbogit could gix badtion lore wuse
bored troll
i can tell lol
Hwats a torlp
yes
peak escarp
!!shitposting @worthy rose
twilit nacelleBOT
@worthy rose Shitposting will result in a loss of access.
worthy rose
Jajajsjajsja
limpid agate
Moving swiftly onwards.
foggy notch
What does sigma say at the very end of his origin story?
teal meadow
You think ow 2 will keep getting updated with stories, or they will keep making a new game?
valid terrace
Yeah Blizzard isn’t known to push games out quickly
We’ll probably have OW2 for years
peak escarp
from the way it's described, OW2 is the game they want to be making
it will finally add the story mode they've been wanting to give us (and the fans have wanted too)
a bunch of youtubers reacted to the OW2 announcement with "so how long until OW3?" but I don't think that's the plan
lament prawn
they described OW's production somewhere as a "crawl, walk, run"
OW is the crawl, OW2 will be the walk
mystic summit
that makes it sound OW is terrible
noble field
I dont want Blizzard to show off their Activision
They NEED to make OW2 last at least 6 years.
peak escarp
it's an expansion disguised as a sequel
in the story sense it is a sequel, but gameplay wise it's an expansion
chilly kelp
limpid agate
There is no reason to make an OW3
OW2 is just so they can make a story mode update
The only reason they would make a 3 is to completely abandon current gen consoles and go for next gen
mystic summit
ow2 part 2
valid terrace
They kind of already have seasons
They just don’t do anything
Besides OWL content
peak escarp
I could see them doing spinoff games in a different genre (a tactical RPG set in the omnic crisis would be amazing), but OW2 will remain the main game
iron plume
overwatch 4x when
timid eagle
An XCOM-style game in the Overwatch universe would be fun. Taking place during the Omnic Crisis would be a good setting.
limpid agate
Overwatch doesn't have seasons
It has competitive seasons, which is named the same but not the same thing
I mean seasonal pass esque content as seen in many other games
Battlefront, Destiny, Street Fighter, etc.
mystic summit
Seems kinda weird
OW was originally promised to have free content updates
Think going seasonal route would piss players even more
limpid agate
Overwatch 1
And that was also for PvP
PvE is a new realm. You cannot reasonably expect them to make all future PvE content free as well
mystic summit
It'll depend how good OW2 is
Would have to be waaaaaay better than what we got from the free events
Good enough to establish a chunky sized PvE community
peak escarp
I'd be willing to pay for a season pass
tough quartz
we had like 3 years of free content updates
limpid agate
Of PvP content
And its reasonable to expect that to continue
But
Its not very sustainable
tough quartz
the fact I'll still be able to play multiplayer without buying OW2 is enough for me, buying 2 is gonna depend on PvE depth and replayability
paper gazelle
I very much hope the OW2 storytelling will be good
After all it is the main point of OW2
And I believe the devs wouldn't want to fk up and get a metacritic score of <80-85
frosty shell
Yeah tactical RPG or similar during Omnic Crisis would be amazing
mystic summit
that would be an OW spinoff
frosty shell
Yes
mystic summit
OW: odst
limpid agate
ODST was the same genre
mystic summit
OW Wars
limpid agate
There you go
worthy rose
what do you guys think of heroes like 76 or ana appearing in OW2 PvE mode?
think they'll respond or do anything about the winston call?
i mean, mercy ended up responding to winston's call and showed up at the end, so what do you guys think?
worthy rose
They won't respond; they've clearly have conflicted feelings and Ana is helping soldier on his two man crusade to destroy Talon and everyone responsible for Overwatch's downfall
this is clearly shown in the Ana comic and Mercy short story
iron plume
Yeah that's been made pretty clear in Valkyrie, for the same reason Mercy did join
I wouldn't count them out on appearing in game missions though, maybe fighting alongside newverwatch
grand wedge
Maybe they’ll feature a story mode not just from OW point of view ? People have been asking for Talon pve mission for a while now. And does the missions have to be all 4mans team ?
Plus they may cross path with Ow without joining them maybe ?
worthy rose
perhaps. i mean, overwatch and those two have the same goal. null sector is the fault of talon, if i'm not wrong
so maybe, they'll run into overwatch while trying to take on a talon member
iron plume
they have pretty different methods and philosophies however
zinc adder
wasnt vishkar pretty much built around lucio's father's technology?
worthy rose
OW 2 is likely going to start off with New OW headed by winston and any continuous would be Overwatch but this would likely be done arbitrarily like Null Sector turning against doomfist and Talon.
iron plume
but yes I wouldn't dismiss a temporary team up
worthy rose
@zinc adder no; They're hardlight; Lucio's tech is sound based
iron plume
don't hold your breath for a release mission though
no
it was part of their tech but their "base" is building with hard light
zinc adder
what about the interaction between lucio and someone else?
iron plume
so what symmetra does
lament prawn
as much as it would open up doors for different missions, i think they're sticking to 4 players
worthy rose
Yea Lucio's dad worked for vishkar to develop the sound tech but they didn't develop hard light from it
zinc adder
ohh i see
iron plume
the tech was likely used as a way to suppress people however
zinc adder
also nice pfp, very classy 👌
worthy rose
i don't know much about vishkar, what exactly is vishkar and why does lucio hate em?
iron plume
!!lorewiki Vishkar
twilit nacelleBOT
For more information about the game, please refer to the wiki: https://overwatch.gamepedia.com/Vishkar
iron plume
long story short, it's a company that uses hard light tech to cheaply build "utopian" neighborhoods in downtrodden places
worthy rose
Vishkar is the Indian architecture company that is kinda shady. Evil real estate land development company that Sym is part of. We don't know if it's evil other than one of their members is working with Talon
grand wedge
Lucio believes that Vishkar used his father and his lifework for themselves.
That’s why he stole it back
iron plume
he believes correctly, but that's hardly why
worthy rose
Which like they do but we haven't been shown how they use it other than Lucio disagrees with their practices
iron plume
he stole it because they were using it to keep authoritarian rule
zinc adder
isnt that the first mission in ow2?
grand wedge
We don’t know much more the the 3 voice lines in game
worthy rose
The first mission is in Rio but nothing to do with Vishkar
iron plume
and it's in present day
grand wedge
No it’s null sector invading Rio
zinc adder
oh wait yeah
worthy rose
That we know of yet
iron plume
(it also isn't necessarily the first mission)
zinc adder
just a preview
worthy rose
Vishkar with Sanjay's help could have helped develop the flying omniums but we really have nothing to tie them yet.
i'm still kinda shocked that lucio and mei are new members of overwatch according to some lines, like i've been hearing lucio and mei interact by name with overwatch in in-game interactions and it's kinda weird... but it's cool
zinc adder
though i do like the timing of lucio's ko in the preview though
"Shouldn't let yourself be controlled by politicians, that's not the overwatch I know"
proceeds to die
iron plume
them interacting doesn't mean much by itself
worthy rose
In game interactions aren't exactly canon
iron plume
interactions are a what-if
and mei is somewhat well known
worthy rose
He's not actually dead and also that's cause OW was shut down cause politicians
zinc adder
no i mean the ko in the preview, the timing was on point
iron plume
and Mei's been in overwatch for a long time
worthy rose
If they killed him this early on I'd laugh cause damn is that ambitious
iron plume
she just wasn't a fighter
zinc adder
when they were at the first cp
worthy rose
i sometimes think to myself, "i kinda want one of the good guys to die in canon", but then i think about who it could be and how sad it could be if they really do kill off characters
I'm more intrigued on who's going to join Soldier and Ana cause missions have to be done in squads of 4 implying to me they need to make two additions to them for them to be able to be played story wise
zinc adder
maybe itll just be a duo mission
worthy rose
Also possible but damn is that gonna be hard
zinc adder
i hope they stray from the 4 man missions tbh, would be a nice change of pace
worthy rose
torbjorn?
Torb is joining up with regular ow more than likely
imagine solo missions though
that'd be wicked
Doubtful
noble field
i hope you can play the story solo
zinc adder
i do imagine solo qing a duo mission must b pretty high risk tho
imagine getting a useless soldier
worthy rose
i know it probably wouldn't happen but imagine if there's a mission where there's only 1 person doing the killing and maybe some comms
noble field
no Solo as in single player
worthy rose
It's not a solo campaign story game
zinc adder
ikr
noble field
tho they should give us the option
we dont fully know this yet so we cant point fingers
worthy rose
I mean I don't think it'll be like that; I imagine for a lot of characters in PVE there's going to be extreme changes. We already see that in the preview with the shield of rein and his health being mixed around
but that's just PVE specifically
zinc adder
interlock shields tho
noble field
I hope they make it to where you can dedicate all of your time on just PvE stuff
grand wedge
Torb chose not to answer the recall ( for now) but maybe he’ll change his mind
worthy rose
They want to keep the esports scene and the pvp scene alive
noble field
Because they're just going to copy and paste the abysmal (IMO) PvP stuff onto OW2
zinc adder
ill buy full game either way tbh
noble field
which is lazy and quite pathetic
worthy rose
No once you buy OW 2 you get both things
You get the normal stuff of OW 1 but with the added PVE mode and hero changes in design
zinc adder
mhm
noble field
See thats the thing
grand wedge
Ow 2 is pve and bonus new skins ( sweater Genji and new looks)
noble field
I do fall onto the trend of "Why tf is this not just an update"
worthy rose
it pretty much is
grand wedge
You can still do the pvp with the original game
zinc adder
expansion pack
zinc adder
oh really?
grand wedge
People still don’t know that?
iron plume
the pvp would
noble field
That defeats the purpose of it being called a sequel thats the issue
worthy rose
i think the title is off
noble field
^^^
noble field
"hang up" on what?
worthy rose
but people should really just understand that this is an expansion pack and move on
iron plume
if you want to call it a standalone expansion call it a standalone expansion
grand wedge
Yeah you’ll have your pvp maps and mode even if you don’t buy the 2
zinc adder
neat
worthy rose
PVP competitive is still going to constantly be rebalanced to keep competitive viable but also the esports scene viable
Cause blizzard/activision demanded a sequel where you'd have to pay for every hero and map and Jeff and the blizzard team were "We really really don't want that so how about this instead. Story mode and lots of heroes and maps but we call it a sequel." Jeff fought hard for that
Also PVP is going to be connected for OW1 and OW2 but nothing else besides like cosmetics.
check pins in overwatch-discussion
iron plume
but whining about how "defeating the purpose" or whatever is just
why
zinc adder
i hope they keep the talents as pve only though
zinc adder
else pvp is hell
grand wedge
They will
noble field
This probs isnt a big deal to many of you but it is a major pet peeve of mine if they copy and paste the same voice lines from the first game
worthy rose
Legit you may hate the fact they call it a sequel but compared to paying for literally every hero and map; I'd rather take this
iron plume
it's not an "update" however either
zinc adder
thank gods
iron plume
because you don't need 1 for 2
worthy rose
imagine having to pay to play new heroes, god, imagine paying for a new hero only for them to get nerfed int othe ground
zinc adder
call it whatever you want, im just happy it exists
iron plume
^
noble field
same here
i just hope they dont fuck it up to hell and back
like they did with the PvP
which is why idgaf about the pvp on OW2
worthy rose
the top pin in general discussion pretty much describes what OW2 will be like
iron plume
🙄
worthy rose
i wish archives was permenant
smh
Yea hence why Jeff and the OW team didn't wanna do that and instead did this and tried to make it fair for consumers meanwhile consumers be bitching: "iT's NoT rEalLy A sEqUeL tHo!"
grand wedge
Hope there will have some new archives in the 2nd
worthy rose
There won't be any new archives this year but maybe in 2021
grand wedge
I know (sadly)
noble field
Imagine is they had separate people designing each characters new look
worthy rose
Cause he didn't answer the recall; he heard of it but legit didn't think they needed him
atleast echo said hi to winston for mccree like he asked
grand wedge
Hoping for more short story challenges next year
zinc adder
he was waiting for high noon to lock onto the gigantic robot obviously
noble field
for some reason i'd like to see Hideo Kojima design Pharah. idk why that sounds cool
iron plume
lol
noble field
i know it wont happen
worthy rose
give pharah a skin that resembles metal gear rising characters
iron plume
I don't think pharah needs to be basically topless any time soon but sure
worthy rose
I mean if you wanna talk about hero redesigns this ain't the chat to do it
zinc adder
i want a new lucio skin that changes music like jazzy
iron plume
🙄
noble field
oh right i forgot how annoyingly strict people are about topics smh
worthy rose
I assume Torb joined new OW since Mercy got a redesign and he made her armor
iron plume
you seem to also have forgotten how kojima has designed characters but sure
grand wedge
Nope he doesn’t
zinc adder
maybe
worthy rose
is pharah apart of overwatch?
iron plume
no
worthy rose
ic
iron plume
assuming you meant a part
grand wedge
They told us during a panel at Blizzcon
iron plume
she's in Helix
worthy rose
Which Blizzcon
worthy rose
Okay fair
noble field
Im just stating cool imagination and all im getting is shit
iron plume
He's definitely getting involved with the Gothenburg map and whatnot
noble field
thats OW for ya LMAO
twilit nacelleBOT
Shitposting will result in a loss of access.
worthy rose
Did they ever describe where Mercy's armor and stuff changed or are we assuming Winston did it cause an engineer mercy is not
grand wedge
What if it’s Brig tho ?
worthy rose
Actually plausible I'm down for brig redesigns
worthy rose
You think they went to Torb for new gear? Even if he chooses not to answer recall, helping them and his daughter are totally plausible
iron plume
I think Mercy would
grand wedge
And we don’t know when Rio mission is or if it’s the firts playable one?
worthy rose
Tbh I don't imagine Rio being the first mission; They already are in europe so it makes sense for them to try and clean out europe first rather than fly to south america
grand wedge
I don’t think we’re gonna play Paris
worthy rose
i assume there will be some kind of chronological order that you can be given to play in order
grand wedge
Yeah but for the hero missions not the story mode missions
noble field
They should have made it an RPG lul
iron plume
the map was both
worthy rose
Probably; I imagine you'd more than likely start off with the heroes who currently aren't attached to OW to bring them in. Lucio being one of the key examples but I'm really excited for the MEKA South korean missions.
You get lucio first then move north to america then canada for sojourn and then so on and so forth
noble field
I hear its going to be more like Left 4 Dead in a way
you have all these cities and you go through a few missions
and move on to the next
worthy rose
the A.I are gonna have complex patterns instead of just being mindless A.I like in the archives gamemodes i hear
noble field
^^^
worthy rose
Probably but thats most AI in video games whenever there's optional difficulty levels.
grand wedge
I really hope for not only 4 heroes team for every mission.... I want duo and trio and 6men missions too 😭
worthy rose
I expect it to be 4 man missions since there was more than 4 heroes lore wise in Rio during Null Sector invasion
and you could only play 4
iron plume
making a "good AI" for a game, especially shooter, is less about the actual AI and more about smoke and mirrors
Fear is still praised for its enemies, but the scripting it has is pretty simple
they just have a lot of care on top of it
like separate voicelines for where you're hiding as opposed to "he's over there"
worthy rose
if anyone was to die canonically, who do you think it would be? i'd think winston, since, in a lot of stories, if there's some kind of sad death scene, it's, a lot of the times, the leader who's been carrying the whole time
grand wedge
No one xD
peak escarp
I'd be surprised if any missions are more/less than 4 players
grand wedge
But realistically ? Soldier Reaper Rein are the best candidates
iron plume
Winston is among the least likely
worthy rose
Soldier is the most likely
iron plume
just under tracer and mei
worthy rose
Dude has a revenge Vendetta and has let it kinda consume him
so if anyone dies; it's him especially since he technically doesn't have family that we know of in universe
besides OW
grand wedge
The old soldiers dying to let the youngsters continue the fight
iron plume
Dying would be a pretty lame resolution to his arc though
we've had a talk here a while ago and Jewvia convinced me
grand wedge
I don’t want anyone to die tho
worthy rose
Not saying it isn't lame just that if anyone is gonna die; it'd probably be him
iron plume
Reinhardt would be pure "passing the torch" and he's pretty much at peace
worthy rose
if they do kill anyone off i hope it's not predictable and shakes the story up and creates emotion
iron plume
again though, none of it is happening
shaking things up for the sake of shaking them up is bad writing
iron plume
there's "unpredictable" and there's "doesn't make sense"
worthy rose
If anything if they bother touching Tracer's death it wouldn't even be there for long since time powers and probably just her chronal accelerator being destroyed.
worthy rose
they did actually say they aren't scared of killing anyone off while of course stating that if they did, they wouldn't remove them from PvP and all that
which makes sense
iron plume
Jeff said they're not "ruling it out"
which while technically the same thing, as phrasing is a long way off "aren't scared"
worthy rose
i wonder if they're only talking about good guys when talking about that or if we're not gonna even see villains such as doom or reaper die
grand wedge
It’s always tricky to kill a character
Especially after 3 years of people getting their favorites - them getting killed after only few pve missions would be bad probably
peak escarp
Mei wouldnt do that
Mei is one of the many heroes who have canonically never killed anyone
grand wedge
If Moira were to be killed, I’d like it to be from soldier or reaper
worthy rose
i really do hope the talon members do end up being boss-fights
peak escarp
if they do they'd have to make it so they don't die, but just escape at the end
worthy rose
imagine fighting doom in numbani or moira in oasis
stable plinth
imagine if you actually get to choose whether or not you kill them
worthy rose
It's not a choose your own adventure type story; the story is laid out before you. The choices you make have no impact on how the story unfolds
worthy rose
man so i'm not getting damage property fines for shooting a glass bottle? unrealistic game tbh.
worthy rose
yeah i expect OW2's missions to be pretty linear
stable plinth
developpement is still running
worthy rose
Cause literally that's the dumbest thing they could do for the story and also because if they are setting up missions that's even more work on top of all the crap they're already doing the for the game; 4+ heroes, 4+ maps, Character redesigns for all current like 31+ characters, new hud and probably released late 2020 or early 2021 and you think they'd put in a goddamn story select where your choices matter?
stable plinth
the game you saw on blizzcon is not the game thats gonna be released
and that wouldnt be the first time they focus on something when the game really needs other stuff
worthy rose
No but it sure as heck a good idea of what it will be like; It's not gonna show us that and give us minecraft or a telltale game instead
peak escarp
the Blizzcon game was alpha stage
worthy rose
Not on any of the missions; it's a very set story with little differences. The mission gameplay won't be exactly canon. There were more than 4 heroes at Rio but you only get to pick 4 and this isn't a story based game where choices affect the outcome. This is on you to give evidence that they will do something not for me to disprove it to you.
peak escarp
it's just logic
worthy rose
You: They're probably gonna set up multiple endings
Me: No they won't.
You: WELL WHY WON'T THEY HUH YOU DON'T KNOW! PROVE TO ME THEY WON'T
peak escarp
think of linear story-based games - they don't have multiple endings
stable plinth
like i dont
peak escarp
you succeed at the objective, or you fail
peak escarp
we're just going off what they have already shown
worthy rose
You're asking for proof for something that literally we've seen before. Archives is what they're basing it off of; a very set story. You are throwing the notion of multiple endings when that's a lot of work and then being real damn obnoxious about it being a reality.
peak escarp
they're not going to drastically change things and add a branching narrative
worthy rose
Why would they; it's not on us to give an argument for why it's on you to give an argument and evidence for why they would.
peak escarp
what makes you think they would add it?
worthy rose
We're going based off what we've seen and what they've done before
worthy rose
you're throwing random nonsense into the argument and then expecting us to prove you wrong instead of you proving yourself right
stable plinth
someone wants winston to fly, sure, let him imagine it
peak escarp
I don't think it would be great
stable plinth
okay thats your opinion
peak escarp
the devs do what they want
stable plinth
workshop wtf
peak escarp
and they want to tell the story
peak escarp
but they don't
worthy rose
And there's no evidence suggesting they would
stable plinth
you're actually working at blizzard
peak escarp
otherwise they would have said so, or shown it off
stable plinth
And there's no evidence suggesting they wouldn't
the game is still in developpement
omg
they've said it
peak escarp
they have said multiple times that they want to tell the story
stable plinth
features they hadnt imagined yet will be added
but you're working at blizzard
so you're right
gg next
bye
peak escarp
stop being facetious
stable plinth
stop working at blizzard
limpid agate
Moving on from that mess.
valid terrace
The only thing they’ve mentioned as a choice in how the story plays out is possibly choosing your characters from a larger pool than 4 if the mission allows it
But that won’t affect cutscenes and may not even be implemented in the full release
teal meadow
Don't bother about the ending, ow 2 will not end the ow lore once and for all
limpid agate
@brazen inlet Lore only.
gusty glade
Do you guys think sym will be in ow2. Storymode
limpid agate
Yes.
peak escarp
I wonder if Vishkar will be one of the enemy factions
limpid agate
Probably not. I think it will just be a Talon unit or two
Like the Blood Elves in Warcraft 3.
Or the dwarves.
peak escarp
it would be interesting to have enemy units that can use shields/constructs against us
limpid agate
I have a feeling that Vishkar units will just become part of Talon's greater roster
peak escarp
I could see that
what factions do you think we'll see - Talon and Null Sector are confirmed, maybe Gwishin? Helix?
noble field
I kinda want there to be Talon missions
paly as talon
do the same thing Halo 2 did
you get to play as the other side for a bit
limpid agate
Not Gwisin
Gwisin is too small
Helix
And if you do get Talon missions
Helix is the opponent
Gwisin is minor. It might get absorbed into Null Sector
silk reef
Did you make the cryo chamber things
limpid agate
What
frosty shell
We could have Gwishin just on Busan
peak escarp
that's what I was thinking
limpid agate
I dont think they'll make a whole faction for just 1 stage
Theyll probably integrate it into Null Sector
If anything
OR
They'll just make it team recolour
But that would be lame
peak escarp
they could use them for hero missions too
limpid agate
But how many units do you make for it
To make it feel like a unique faction worth distinguishing from Null Sector
peak escarp
we've only seen 2 different Gwishin units
the colossus and the squids
the devs could make up as many as they need
limpid agate
For the sake of relation
Im gonna compare this to Destiny
Destiny 1 had 4 enemy factions, and each was primarily associated with a story chain on a planet. The Taken King expansion added a 5th, with a whole campaign around it.
Destiny 2 launched with those 5 factions, and they all had quite a few enemy types. Forsaken introduced a 6th, with a whole campaign and 2 "planets" associated with the Scorn.
(quotes because they're both different places in the Astroid Belt)
The Gwisin are just a local enemy
It would be like making the Deadlock or Shimada Clan an enemy faction
They are too minor to care about, and they could be integrated into Null Sector.
peak escarp
I guess so
limpid agate
The only impactful third faction I can think of is Helix
You can develop others later on
But at launch?
I can see them having only 3 factions
peak escarp
makes sense
limpid agate
Which is where a season pass or expansion model would be beneficial
Paying for content means more revenue means more funding for content
peak escarp
having Helix as a faction is a good way to let us play as the bad guys