The unnecessary wing things that serve no function, seemingly, feel like just a distraction, no less absurd than the massive spiked shoulders on a Gundam. And the new design doesn't have the same sleek, pretty, yet somewhat dangerous-looking curves, I'd say, just a lot of unnecessary bulk that might invoke Renaissance-styled dresses.
#lore-discussion
reef dagger
peak escarp
how do you know they don't serve a function?
we've seen her for a whole of a minute and she didn't do anything
reef dagger
Indeed, and that's another thing
peak escarp
also, she's not Vishkar branded
reef dagger
She's literally got a Vishkar label on her forehead
reef dagger
I'd say its close enough, and it's obvious her face is made up of hard light anyway
Nevermind the whole sleek, white aesthetic that no other omnics or drones have
peak escarp
the devs confirmed that she has no relation to Vishkar or Athena
reef dagger
Well, whatever
Anyway, in the Reunions trailer, she basically is just a sudden reveal of a damsel in distress, implying she'll have some greater purpose in the story (when there's already loads of other characters in Overwatch we'd probably rather see more of) without giving us any indication at all about who she is, as a personality, or anything.
I dunno, it just feels poorly handled to the point of making me cringe every time I get to that point of the short.
(meanwhile Ashe and B.O.B.'s introductions are expertly handled)
peak escarp
she has some connection to McCree's past, and probably knows about Winston and Overwatch
we saw Bars and the Triplets without knowing who they are
reef dagger
And yet we had no implication McCree had any robot friends or associates in the past before this short.
peak escarp
we had no implication that McCree was a founder of Deadlock or that the leader was a woman before this short
reef dagger
Nonetheless, we knew of McCree's relationship with the gang fairly well beforehand
peak escarp
did we?
reef dagger
We knew the gang existed at least
peak escarp
we knew he was a former member
that's the whole point of new lore - to tell us things we didn't know before
reef dagger
We knew he was a former member, and how they hate his guts now, and he makes a comment about it feeling 'wrong' to return to their territory, so we know that his relationship with them was complicated at the very least.
And we knew the gang existed at the very least.
So, seeing the gang and its members just fills in on the details we would have been looking for.
This Echo character, however, doesn't (yet) fill in any details on anything
limpid agate
Whats this about
reef dagger
And as you said, she's not even associated with Vishkar.
So she doesn't even contribute to them
peak escarp
we didn't know everything about Brigitte the first time we saw her
she was just Reinhardt's squire
then we found out she was Torbjorn's daughter
limpid agate
Is this about Echo being introduced out of nowhere from the Payload
peak escarp
and Reinhardt was her godfather
reef dagger
Well, Brigitte was never implied to be becoming a hero in the future either. She was just a side character to Reinhardt's story.
limpid agate
Because that's why she wasn't made hero 28.
And we were told that she needed time
Like, at the very least
Every hero who came out of nowhere
Was at least from a part of the lore we knew about
peak escarp
Harmonica was complaining that Echo adds nothing to the story and her sudden appearance at the end of the short was forced
reef dagger
(and frankly, I still partly feel that Brigitte would have been better as a side character still, even if I wanted to see more of her)
I'm just complaining about Echo in general. I don't like her, and I have no reason to.
She just kinda ruins an otherwise perfectly good short, or at least I'm sure they could of handled it better in some way
limpid agate
Ashe - Leader of Deadlock Gang - Which hates McCree, former member, who left the gang ~20 years ago - Introduced that there were 4 founders, but its not a focus
Baptiste - Talon Agent (formerly) - Is a Talon Trooper+ - Introduced Carribbean Coalition, but its not a focus
Sigma - Talon Scientist - Was part of the space station disaster shown in Lijiang Towers - Introduced space manipulation in a world with time manipulation and genetic manipulation
Echo would have been forced if she became hero on the spot
Instead they said
lets give her a year to sink in
Like, look at Sigma
Is his singularity manipulation forced?
It felt natural because we had minor time and minor genetic manipulation in Tracer and Reaper
reef dagger
She doesn't even have any discernable motivations. Literally, she could have had one line where she stated her intended goal, and at least give us a little bit of a glimpse into who she is, rather than McCree just freeing her and telling her what to do.
limpid agate
And he isnt shifting the world, he is just minor
reef dagger
Like, "I want to help Overwatch," or somesuch
limpid agate
That would have felt forced to me.
peak escarp
why does she need motivation? we don't know the motivations of plenty of heroes (because we haven't seen them in action yet)
manic parcel
Did we ever get more info on Liao?
reef dagger
But we totally do. We generally understand their personalities and what they value, and their intended goals or who's side they fight one/
limpid agate
Okay
That's for heroes
But what about before they became heroes?
Im gonna ignore the ones we never met
reef dagger
Like, "We need to move the payload." That's a motivation.
limpid agate
The heroes we met before they became heroes were:
Ana
Sombra
Doomfist
Moira
Brig
Hammond
Using met loosely
last inlet
Heroes we knew about
limpid agate
Not knew about, orisa would be added
But she didnt exist yet
Of those:
- Ana was seen in flashback images
- Sombra had an ARG
- Doomfist was a glove
- Moira was on the Talon council
- Brig was Rein's squire
- Hammond escaped the HLC
- Wrecking Ball was the champion of Junkertown
And from that pool we knew
Ana - Wanted to keep Pharah out of Overwatch
Sombra - Wanted to infiltrate Lumerico
Doomfist -
Moira -
Brig - Follow in Reinhardt's footsteps
Hammond - Not be on the moon
Wrecking Ball - Money presumably
Now looking at those motivations and how they linked up with the releases
Ana - More or less the same, but grander scope. She wants to protect the world rather than just her daughter.
peak escarp
"We need to move the payload." is not a canon motivation
limpid agate
Make up for the wrong she has done, which was a new motivation
reef dagger
See, here's why I think Blizzard kinda screwed themselves by giving Echo a direct appearance in that video; she's not even a character yet. I'm doubting they even have figured out her personality or her role in the story yet, hence why her existence is not hinted in the game at all, whatsoever, besides the context the short gave us.
limpid agate
Sombra - We knew nothing about her motivation.
Her motivation is an addiction to manipulation and to find the heart of a consipiracy she invented
None of that was known prior
reef dagger
Although some of the small details of her design will probably be tweaked to make her 'combat-ready' for an appearance in the game, the broad design is already sealed, because she's made an 'official appearance'. They can't do any major changes after that.
limpid agate
Doomfist and Moira - had no motivation known before they became heroes other than probably Doomfist wanting his gauntlet back
peak escarp
she has existed as a character since early concept art - if they didn't have a personality for her by now I'd be very surprised
limpid agate
Brig - Had a fleshed out motivation
Wrecking ball - Had a motivation more or less that's still true. BUT
- Hammond inside ball: Wanted the money to explore the world. We didnt know about his explorer's heart
Overall
reef dagger
If she had a personality, she should have at least demonstrated it.
peak escarp
she did
limpid agate
Half the heroes we see have some motivation given prior. The other half do not
peak escarp
she showed concern for McCree, she showed a sense of humor (her reaction to "monkey")
reef dagger
I don't think "Thank you for saving me," is a personality, or at least not a good one.
limpid agate
Did my series of messages get drowned out because it wasnt all 1 post
peak escarp
"What happened to your arm?" "What are you going to do?"
limpid agate
And ignored
peak escarp
sorry Jewvia
last inlet
The end of McCree and Ashe's video was just a teaser for her
reef dagger
Well, that's exactly what I was addressing
last inlet
They don't need to reveal everything all at once, especially if they knew they needed to spend more time on her
reef dagger
None of those characters made an 'official appearance' before we got to understand who they are.
peak escarp
her personality and motivations will be revealed in her origin trailer, just like every other post-release hero
last inlet
Especially if she's not the most important part of the short
limpid agate
Ana and Brig had known motivations prior to release
Sombra, Doomfist, and Wrecking Ball had partial goals part of a larger unknown motivation prior to relase
Moira had an unknown motivation prior to rlease.
reef dagger
Meanwhile, we see Echo is fairly vivid detail, speaking lines and all, and yet we know less about her than we did with Ana, or even Hammond for that matter.
limpid agate
None of those characters made an 'official appearance
Yes, they did
Brig was in Dragon Slayer most notably
Sombra had an entire ARG where she led us to Lumerico without telling us why
reef dagger
Well, I mean in the case of the characters you were drawing blanks about their personalities
limpid agate
Sombra is one of those blanks
her motivation was unknown up to her origin short
Even in infiltration
We didnt know what it was
She was fucking with Volskaya to make her her "friend"
Why
We didnt know
Then we got the origin short later
And she was revealed to be an addict that was chasing a conspiracy only she believes exists
reef dagger
We at least understood the type of character she was. 'Playful hacker'. The short introduced us to all of the various in-game abilities she had, and her relationship with other characters (being a fellow Talon operative)
limpid agate
We know about as much of Echo's motivations as we did about Sombra's
Personality != Motivation
You first argued Motivation
reef dagger
I'm arguing both. Echo lacks either
peak escarp
it's hard to get a sense of a character's personality from just a minute of screentime - imagine if all we had on McCree was that first page of the Uprising comic
limpid agate
Well if you wanna talk about lacking personality
Brig still lacks personality after releasing
What is it
peak escarp
we don't know much of Lucio's personality either
limpid agate
Nah
Lucio has personality
Brig is just a bundle of Swedish quotes, Reinhardt quotes, and Torbjorn quotes
her personality is trying to be two people, but not being anything unique herself
The only difference is we see her worry for Reinhardt
peak escarp
tbh that is basically what her character is
limpid agate
And... That's about it
reef dagger
I think she was introduced well enough even before she was a hero. In Reinhardt's comic, we see she's not just Reinhardt's squire, but something of a handler for him, yet sympathetic enough that she'd still help him achieve justice when it mattered.
white cobalt
Isn't a map usually released this month or next?
limpid agate
Last month
Echo we see that she is close to McCree, and has familiarity with Overwatch. We know about as much of her personality as we did about everyone that wasn't Brig or Sombra
peak escarp
typically it would be revealed in late August and go live mid Sept
but since Blizzard didn't make any event appearances this summer, they didn't show anything off
reef dagger
My main point, anyway, that first impressions of Echo simply aren't good. Maybe that'll change when the teasers start rolling out and we get a little bit of context on her place in the world.
white cobalt
So they moved release dates since...sigma im guessing
limpid agate
First impression isn't good?
reef dagger
But, as it stands, she's almost non-existent, and is just a surprise damsel-in-distress.
limpid agate
People's first impression of Hammond was that he was a monkey that killed all the scientists
Because they liked making grand assumptions
Brig's first impression was that she was a meek mechanic. Now she's a buff paladin.
The transformation happening... After she became playable
reef dagger
I don't think anything implied Brigitte was meek.
limpid agate
Other than Dragon Slayer
Or her noodle arms in every apeparance before Honour and Glory
reef dagger
But, nonetheless, while I found her character interesting, I personally never thought she was hero material anyway.
peak escarp
reef dagger
Like, it would have been neat to see more of her and Reinhardt in some 'chapter 2' of their journey, but...
limpid agate
How does she compare to Sojourn, Mauga, and junkerqueen
Even if you go in lore appearance
Echo is really minor
peak escarp
Echo has been seen about as much as Junkerqueen
we've heard her voice, seen her face, heard her interact with heroes
limpid agate
Sojourn - Secondary character in Storm Rising
Mauga - Secondary character in WYLB
Junkerqueen - has a few voice lines and pictures
Echo - Has a few voice lines and animations
reef dagger
Well, it's a matter of expectation, I'd say. I'm not expecting any of those three to become playable heroes, but Echo's fate is practically sealed, assuming she's not just another dead plot thread that ends up going nowhere.
limpid agate
I'm not expecting any of those three to become playable heroes
But
They're all literally confirmed
Including Echo
reef dagger
Are they really?
limpid agate
They're all in varying stages of development
Echo is the earliest we knew of
Confirmed last Blizzcon
Sojourn was said to be an upcoming hero as of Storm Rising
Junkerqueen was said to be a long term project in concepting stages as of Storm Rising
Mauga was confirmed to be restarted after Sigma took his job
reef dagger
We know that they've got loads of potential characters to grab from as heroes, and given that even somebody like Brigitte could become a hero, anybody could.
But, Echo's looking more like a will than could
limpid agate
All 4 of them are wills.
reef dagger
Yet arguably, we know more about Mauga than we do Echo
limpid agate
The thing is, Echo/Sojourn wills are shorter term
Mauga is longer
Junker Queen is longest
peak escarp
Mauga has had more "screentime" than Echo
limpid agate
Like, within next 6-8 heroes
peak escarp
so of course we know more about him
limpid agate
The next 8 heroes should include 4 of these characters (SHOULD)
Unless something comes up in the next couple years
These 4 are all confirmed to be in development
reef dagger
Well, in terms of development, it's not like every idea ends up working out in the end. I'm sure some of their current indev characters (or rather, probably lots of them) ended up being scrapped, or indefinitely delayed, likely because the ideas simply aren't panning out in practice quite yet
limpid agate
Compare how Bizz picks heroes now compared to when they did it before
They're very open about who is being made nowadays
"Quein es Sombra" and "I heard he can level a skycraper" jokes are in the past
They're just straight up saying
reef dagger
(I mean, we almost already have confirmation that they didn't even have any gameplay design for Echo yet, by the time she was revealed)
limpid agate
"Yeah we're working on Sojourn. But she isn't the next hero."
"Mama Hong is highly debated about whether or not she should become a hero"
"Jetpack Cat is off the table"
peak escarp
Mauga is an example of them changing their minds
limpid agate
Also we did know one thing about Echo
peak escarp
although he wasn't scrapped, merely shelved
limpid agate
Jeff asked chat what role she looked like
When they said Support, he was pleased and said they liked to design characters to look like their role
That makes her most likely a support
reef dagger
I feel like her design's infringing somewhat on Mercy at that point
reef dagger
pretty much
I'm sure you could argue that with that argument, you could say Baptiste infringes on Soldier 76
and sure, but at the very least they're in different catagories
limpid agate
Too bad we have too many cowboys with antique guns and an old fashioned grenade that doesn't work how it should.
Ashe would have been a cool hero
reef dagger
I did mention earlier that she'll probably get some minor design changes to make her 'gameplay-ready', but I still feel as if Blizzard screwed themselves by giving her a complete cinematic cameo, because that means they have to stick to the broad strokes of that design.
limpid agate
Not necessarily
Look at brigitte
She had 4 months to become a hero
Echo had 12
They could just make Reunion echo a skin and call it a day
reef dagger
Brigitte lost a few freckles and put on some bulky armor and equipment. I wouldn't call those major changes
limpid agate
Give Echo some clothes
reef dagger
Likewise, I'm sure Echo's going to get a massive healing cannon or whatever is going to serve her gameplay purpose, but she's still going to have that dumb hard light face no matter what.
Maybe the end result will look better, but she doesn't look great now, in my opinion.
limpid agate
I mean
i still think Sombra looks like a bad base design
And that was after they changed her from the Ana/Genji hybrid
reef dagger
True, Sombra got a huge aesthetic re-work from what they were teasing.
But, it's not as if she appeared in person, with a whole cinematic million-polygon model and a voice actor.
limpid agate
I dont think the designs they have for Echo in the short
Are anything they're gonna want to drastically change
reef dagger
She was a caped silhouette in a newspaper trying to make sales
limpid agate
Like
They can give her some clothes
Or upgrade some limbs
And just make the Reunion version a skin
They just need to adhere to the general silhouette of
Detatched limbs, floating wings, at least 1 skin with a hologram face
And they can redesign whatever else they want
peak escarp
some character designs just don't appeal to everyone
limpid agate
I also dont think she looks great, but I dont expect them to change it
peak escarp
I like Echo's design
reef dagger
(I still prefer the cyclopic tear-drop head, with the intimidating GLaDOS look)
limpid agate
its about what I expected from the end result
Hologram face isnt something I think they'll back out on
They'll make skins without it
peak escarp
peak escarp
she still has that projector thing behind the face
limpid agate
Its just a face now
peak escarp
you can see it when she turns on
limpid agate
instead of just a visor
reef dagger
well, we shall see.
limpid agate
If you wanna talk about being hard locked
The hardest locked hero in the entire game
Is Mauga
he is literally a Talon Heavy Assault
peak escarp
he was also blown up at the end of the story
which they could use as an excuse to redesign him
limpid agate
And he will still have
Talon Classic Heavy Assault garb as a skin
Twin cannons
Probably that swipe thats such a unique "Fuck off" button we have on no other tank
A shield
reef dagger
I agree that it might be challenging to adhere to that design while maintaining desired gameplay balance, which is why I'm not expecting him anytime soon
limpid agate
Mauga is the hardest lock. Heavy Assault cannons, shield, and most likely the swipe too
Remove that, and he's not a heavy anymore, and what the fuck are you gonna do for any of his flashback skins?
peak escarp
yeah
limpid agate
He's got 3 appearances in the past with potential.
WYLB outfit
Hawaiin Shirt Casual
Obligatory Talon Heavy Assault
reef dagger
Anyway, my main point still stands, they could have handled the end of Reunions better. I just can't help but cringe as it is now, though, for all the previously discussed reasons. Context (or lack thereof), design, narrative role, portrayal, all of it.
limpid agate
Is Echo a worse stinger reveal than Predator?
reef dagger
tbh, haven't seen it.
limpid agate
I thought you would have knownwhat I meant
I mean, the omnic at the end of Storm Rising
Who looks like the Predator
reef dagger
Oh, yes.
limpid agate
Yes worse or yes you get what I mean
reef dagger
I'd say its worse, because I was kinda hyped at the end there, because it has the implication that the whole Null Sector narrative is about to get revived, and I'd love to have some damn closure on that.
I'm not expecting him to be a playable hero (possibly a boss), but at least we've only seen his head, so his design could be anything.
reef dagger
But, I say I'm not expecting a lot of characters to not become playable heroes, and we got Brigitte of all characters in the game.
So, I guess anything's possible
peak escarp
(I'm just happy you're not using the "they have a hamster, so anything goes" excuse)
devout sable
My least favorite part is probably the hard-light face, it's just kind of... yugh... Not really consistent with the inhuman faces we've seen from Omnics thus fair.
@reef dagger maybe that's because Echo isn't an omnic 👀
and maybe there's a reason her face is human-like
reef dagger
Well, I've been trying to be careful as to not use the term 'omnic'
but she is nonetheless most comparable to omnic characters, as there's very little that visually distinguishes an omnic from any other robot
Seems like some robots are even designed to look like omnics
valid shell
Is Snowball yugh?
They're not consistent with Omnics.
||Because they're also not an Omnic.||
valid terrace
She could very easily also just have a ‘combat face’ like the one we’ve seen in less vulnerable situations and the one in Reunions just being for conversation and casual time
Hard- light is one hell of a game changer
Acting loosely like soldier’s mask
limpid agate
In the other hand, they could go over board with face projection
Like projexting her face into a shield
For the goofiest shield imaginable
valid terrace
Halloween cosmetic? Lol
limpid agate
No
I mean just a core part of her kit
Her face is a shield, which she can project forwards to be larger, and cover more area
Dumb gimmick
valid terrace
everyone disliked that
vast mango
i thought the character at the end of the storm rising cutscene was reaper?
limpid agate
Its implied to be a member of Null Sector
More specifically its leader
But we don't know for certain who it is
devout sable
@reef dagger I've got this theory that Echo used to be a living person, that she's a copy of someone's consciousness
or in other words
an echo
warm canyon
in the lore im actually widows dad
peak escarp
!!shitposting @warm canyon
twilit nacelleBOT
@warm canyon Shitposting will result in a loss of access.
peak escarp
I won't warn you again
limpid agate
Moving swiftly onwards.
peak escarp
do you?
dense estuary
Echo having once been a living person would have interesting implications in the setting as so far we have no evidence that uploading is a technology in OW. But for any big lore drops I figure a hair over a month now for that, Because Blizzcon.
peak escarp
yeah
viral matrix
I mean discussing characters being left or right handed is basically shit posting
final compass
What did lumerico do to make sombra mad?
plain topaz
?? No clue
lucid escarp
what is the most common letter to find at the start of a hero's name?
im thinking s is the most common one, Sigma Soldier Sombra Symmetra
manic parcel
Who’s the person that meets with Doomfist at the end of Storm Rising?
bright edge
It was presumably leader of null sector, but all of that was just gamers imagination running wild. No confirm from blizzard on that
valid terrace
It’s likely she just wanted to get the truth out when she discovered LumériCo was going by the Vishkar playbook in her home town
peak escarp
I'm congratulating you for getting in here. I only wanted to know if you were ready or not. (Hey, it's really difficult to get good help lately... you should see some of the clowns I'm working with). For now, let's continue with the true challenge: taking down Lumerico Corp president Guillermo Portero. Why? Because he's a greedy and corrupt man, and an abominable thief. His plan of bringing in line the most powerful and biggest zigurat the 1st of november us nothing more than a deceit, an elaborate plan by his gang to become even more influential in the people of Mexico and get more money. And who's gonna pay for that? Common people, the ones that are always forgotten.
this is why Sombra wants to take down Portero, in her own words
dense estuary
Yea they are not a clean company even if the power is clean
I can see its CEO having a long game, rebuild the power grid of Mexico and that gives him a boatload of power, Whoever controls the energy supply can control a country.
but old news blogs did mention yes there was some kind of technology exchange between Lumerico and Vishkar.
peak escarp
Portero's emails show he's been talking to Sanjay about Vishkar development in Mexico
peak escarp
it's from the emails in the Sombra ARG
worthy rose
More like ARGH amiright
limpid agate
The only lame part was the countdown starting a second countdown
valid terrace
Do we know what kind of weapons/ abilities to expect from the upcoming heroes?
Besides Mauga obvi
devout sable
Sojourn will have something in-line with her being a cyborg
Echo will have something shield/energy focused, maybe
lament prawn
her design and animation is screaming support
they might surprise us but i doubt it
considering she's speculated to be the next hero, and the last one we got was a tank, and dps.... probably not so soon
flat mantle
robot mercy
lament prawn
when it comes to animation style, pretty much, they went for the calm/angelic/majestic style
and im fine with that
flat mantle
well the most recent heroes were baptiste and sigma, right? I started playing after baptiste released. was there another hero this year already?
lament prawn
no
what i meant by my dps comment is they now introduced 2-2-2 and there are way too many dps heroes compared to tank/support
of course we're not supposed to have equal numbers of each but they're probably gonna try to throw in a few tanks and supports before we regularly get dps heroes again, just so the ratio isnt as extreme
i really dont know much when it comes to game balance or whatever so i could be completely wrong and their routine will be the same
i didnt state any facts
peak escarp
they aren't going to stop producing Damage heroes
so far they've released one hero of each role every year
the numbers were always heavily in favor of Damage, they just had them split into Offense and Defense heroes (which never made much sense to me)
the ratio isn't even that extreme - it's roughly 1:2:1
lament prawn
when it comes to forced 2-2-2, isnt that a little extreme?
for queue times its already pretty bad
it gets worse the higher your SR is afaik, and im a no-comp casual loser and even i often resort to playing tank/support when i dont want to or playing qp classic which is full of the same people - those that want a quickie dps game
yeah sorry this has nothing to do with lore i forgot what channel and server i was in entirely
peak escarp
having more tanks/support isn't going to make the people who want to play damage play tank/support
flat mantle
that's why I asked if there was a dps this year, since they've been doing one of each according to some people
peak escarp
2016: support, damage
2017: tank, damage, support
2018: support, tank, damage
2019: support, tank, ???
if the next hero isn't damage, it breaks the pattern
lament prawn
that is a good point, i think those roles should be more attractive somehow, although i do enjoy playing them a lot - i dont have "mains" as much as i just have characters i usually prefer playing, and i have those across all roles
peak escarp
same
I'm not a damage player, I'm a McCree, Junkrat and Pharah player
because I like the characters, not the role
flat mantle
when I saw the animated short my thought was 'robot mercy' but echo may well be a dps
flat mantle
you never know indeed
peak escarp
(part of me hopes she is a damage hero just to annoy people who keep saying "the devs said no more Damage heroes")
lament prawn
im not overly dominant in any role, but my preferred heroes in rough order are sombra, hammond, ana, tracer, mei..... yeah i dont have a main
i mean we can get that with hero 33 still
sojourn feels damagey for example
lament prawn
im hoping tank because she better have a mech
and a bunch of interactions with hammond and the junkers
but yeah, not any time soon
peak escarp
her mech could be her ultimate
true fulcrum
not gonna happen but I wish Junkerqueen would be heal
so we could have the whole junker gang (roady, rat and her) beig tank,dmg and heal
true fulcrum
true!
I count him more to Horizon crew tho
lament prawn
same tbh
valid terrace
If she was it would likely be armor healing like Torbjörn Brigitte
peak escarp
if they decide to revisit the Junkers, you could see Bruce as a support
valid terrace
Torbjörn 3.0 doesn’t sound like a great idea tbh
I do appreciate his personality and hat though
limpid agate
I don't see Bruce ever being playable
valid terrace
Yeah but hopefully we will see more of him
zenith prawn
Mercy rez isn’t canonical right? Like she can’t literally bring back the dead.
limpid agate
Correct
supple bear
Has this discussion mentioned the snow globe found in ecopoint: antarctica yet?
New hero?
Map?
What Grey might mean?
zenith prawn
I have a friend named grey, so maybe he's the new hero lol.
peak escarp
I keep thinking the artist asked what to put inside the globe and the art director just said "make it grey inside"
zenith prawn
This is slightly more likely than my theory.
limpid agate
It is incredibly unlikely to be a hero
worthy rose
Need hero
peak escarp
I think the globe is connected to the next map
or possibly an upcoming short
all of the minor map changes we've gotten (that I can think of) have been related to animated shorts
Echo's pod opening, Reinhardt's token left on Balderich's side, the mugs at Antarctica, Hanamura's mural, Watchpoint Gibraltar's window
some map changes haven't paid off yet
like the Lijiang wheelchair or Ana's wanted posters
teal meadow
Has anyone saw the leak for the halloween version of junkertown?
rose wave
yea
crystal ore
Is Sigma Homosexual?
delicate gull
ye
timid eagle
@teal meadow Do you have a link to that leak?
devout sable
@crystal ore @delicate gull the only characters known to be canonically gay are Tracer and Soldier: 76
delicate gull
right sorry kinda of confused the two
mystic mirage
@peak escarp you seem like an expert on lore.Do we know where echo was actually headed on the train that the deadlocked gang blew up.Or do we not know yet.
peak escarp
she was on a military transport train
she (and other Overwatch weapons and tech) was probably being moved after Soldier's raids on former Overwatch bases
devout sable
it's kinda funny how often fictional 'protagonist' agencies end up collapsing only for actually existing real life government agencies to end up cleaning their mess
it gives me some SHIELD vibes in that regard
teal meadow
@timid eagle sorry, i just read that
I'll send it on your dm, because i can't load it
worthy rose
@teal meadow gib too
worthy rose
Going back to the family that Reaper was stalking
I didn't know Reyes started his own family in the past. Very interesting.
peak escarp
it was speculated that that was his family when Reflections came out
Bastet confirmed that he had a family, so it probably is
my guess is that's his daughter and her husband and son that he was looking at
weak granite
Soldier 76 still fake gae
devout sable
what?
pliant sparrow
Are you telling me hammond isn’t real
lament prawn
say sike right now
spiral yarrow
Okay but what happened then is he just copying ana and abandoning his family?
runic prairie
Posted by Sombra's voice actor, something about hacking Chile.
I'm frame-by-framing as we speak.
iron plume
it's referencing her coming to a covention
runic prairie
The grey hint+the fact she put down shadow?
That's not related to any convention ive seen mentioned recently.
iron plume
this is the username at the bottom right https://twitter.com/expogamechile?lang=en
pretty sure she's just having some fun with it
iron plume
those things tend to be annual
runic prairie
Posting it here in case anything does come of it. It was only posted ~8 minutes ago.
So then why would it be happening 9/23/19 instead of end of october
So if anything comes of it through fbf, or something else. Have fun with it.
I noticed it and wanted to make sure others saw it too.
And the next con she's going to is october 12th.
I don't think this is a con thing man.
"Just gonna leave this right here. --leaving them with this gift...😈 💜 #shadow" is what it says in the desc
lament prawn
thats definitely something that was sent to her with instructions of posting it there, is whatever convention you guys are talking about right now likely to do that?
runic prairie
It has a date of 9/23/19, Monday.
She has no cons that i can find then.
I can tell you right now based on the pattern, I think there's a cipher in this damn thing. I just don't have the expertise to find it.
This is brand-new, within the hour.
I found one in the Baptiste trailer and solved it, which it hinted at Mauga.
Let's see if i can work my magic again.
lament prawn
there's definitely some super distorted footage in there
is it possible to frame by frame through the instagram player?
runic prairie
Nope, i gotta manually record it
runic prairie
Yep im digging as fast as i can.
No one's believing me on this again as per usual.
I said it with Baptiste, I'm saying it again. There's something here.
Just gotta find it.
crystal crystal
yo guess who can use lore discussion
iron plume
most people on this server?
runic prairie
I can see something within it. Someone looking around in the frame by frame, but its beyond my understanding. I have it recorded on my pc if anyone wants the file.
fringe stone
what is lore?
runic prairie
I think its the omnic from the end of storm rising.
Watching through it frame-by-frame you can make out his shape and dreadlocks.
His name might be Grey, from the snowglobe someone found earlier.
lament prawn
sombra, null sector, ecopoint antarctica
thats too many connections, last one seems pretty irrelevant
can you show a frame of what looks like the omnic?
devout sable
@runic prairie what snowglobe?
runic prairie
There was a snowglobe, i gotta find it
lament prawn
there was a weird snowglobe asset added in ecopoint antarctica last patch
it had the word "grey" in it
devout sable
... and why would that be the purple omnic's name?
runic prairie
I’m saying it could be name, or a hash
I found something that sombra’s VA posted-I’m not equipped to solve it properly. I’m not at home lol. So I’m leaving it here for others to try to figure out.
worthy rose
I'd like to see more of Reaper and that family. It's a perfect starting point for character development.
lament prawn
yeah we were just talking about it
lament prawn
ah
hearty pier
@smoky veldt
peak escarp
I think it's just a convention announcement
zenith prawn
That’s underwhelming.
peak escarp
it won't be long until we get more
November 1st at the latest
I hope the next short is a follow-up on WYLB
I want to see Baptiste and Mercy together
peak escarp
(not in a romantic sense, but as comrades in arms)
flat mantle
that would be fun to see
limpid agate
If you wanted the scenario where Talon closes in on Mercy, there's only two outcomes you think of. Gun or Run. But she's a pacifist so she has to run.
But there's a third outcome; Martyrdom.
Her big character defining moment would be just facing Talon and choosing neither to run nor to take up arms against them.
But instead die a martyr protecting people, buying others time to escape or flee
But Blizz won't kill off Mercy, so Baptiste dives in right before she takes the bullet
And helps her fight off Talon
Deus Ex Baptiste would be a great short
No other way to have Mercy remain a pacifist while also be a hero in a short she leads
At least with the Talon hunting spree
last inlet
As out of character as it would seem, I can see them having her at least pick up her sidearm, at least just as a gesture
By them, I mean Bliz
iron plume
even sans baptiste, I think there's a deus ex machina thing they could pull with her in that situation
like her valk-ing out at the last second when she sees the last of the people get to safety
essentially martyrdom lite
where she takes a big beating but survives
last inlet
I'd hate to see Valk be canon
iron plume
the suit is called valkyrie
iron plume
...and I'm talking about the suit
she can fly with it as we see in storm rising intro
iron plume
that was pretty obvious since what's the point of it otherwise
limpid agate
Valking out
THat's not Martyrdom
Martyrdom is dying for it
That's why Baptiste needs to fly in
If she flies out, that's just buying time then running away
iron plume
which is why I didn't say it was martyrdom and instead the other alternative for how it develops
Baptiste doesn't need to fly in for her to help and still stay alive
limpid agate
For an angel, martyrdom is the a good move to make
iron plume
I'm not arguing that
it would, however, be a terrible one for the universe
both in the sense of blizzard marketing, and in the sense of big scope ow universe losing mercy
we'll likely end up with the baptiste version, but that's not a given
hm
or
she does the "fly away at the last possible second" thing but she's extremely beaten up
not quite dead but on the verge
and that's the deus ex baptiste moment
with him saving her and getting her to normal
doesn't mess with her being the hero, still introduces him with a big moment
peak escarp
Valkyrie is already canon, we saw it in the intro to Storm Rising
several ultimates are confirmed canon
clever tapir
how does reaper carry all of his shotguns?
last inlet
no one knows for sure
clever tapir
prolly connected with how he was experimented on and has powers and stuff
maybe he has a connection to the shotgun universe
peak escarp
his powers are genetics based, I dont think the guns are connected
meager canyon
Reaper: into the shotgunverse
valid terrace
Since we know the bullets degenerate tissue and that reaper himself degenerates and regenerates could it be that the guns and bullets are actually part of him?
Kinda weird explanation but it’s the one I’ve got
Hence the guns constantly forming
From smoke
drifting anchor
imagine michael chu writing lore 
a unique aspact to reaper's design and nobody knows how or why he does it
worthy rose
He has shadow manipulation abilities which allow him to create new pairs of hellfire shotguns at will.
pliant sparrow
Materialising the guns seems reasonable
teal meadow
If the junkertown halloween map is real.... maybe a junkenstein gamemode there (because of the door)would be cool.
And the lore of the event should be a horror story made by the junker queen instead of reinhardt.
fallen berry
who is the most powerful overwatch character? in terms of lore not ingame
devout sable
Katya Volskaya 
drifting anchor
who knows, none of the characters have much of a backstory
worthy rose
@fallen berry Tbh i know it's Ana.
worthy rose
Reaper is the most powerful
worthy rose
It varies. Winston has been shown to out-punch doomfist, and normal humans can't compete with a gorilla. Orisa is based on a model that can stop a charging Reinhardt, and might even be able to stop doomfist as well because of upgrades. I'm not even sure if reaper can die because of his smoky thing. So those are likely in the top 3.
lament prawn
tbh i think the smoke shown when the volskaya mech hit him was a creative substitute for blood and nothing else
otherwise they would have taken the advantage of such an ability for an epic shot of him casually walking with bullets going through him
(he can already do that with wraith but i mean just normally)
worthy rose
He was seemingly incinerated by Winston and still survived. He's nigh-immortal. Also he has superhuman strength too, since he was able to single-handedly destroy one of those Volskaya mechs that are supposed to represent the future of Russia.
lament prawn
yes
but say a bullet hit him in the head without him expecting it or wraithing deliberately
of course that would be a garbage death for such a core character but i mean theoretically
worthy rose
Getting a bullet in the head seems a lot more survivable than getting electrocuted by a tesla cannon... He also wasn't expecting Winston to electrocute him but he still survived (whereas normal humans would die instantly if they got electrocuted for that long).
However there really is no answer. Or rather, first we'd need to learn more about how Reaper's powers work; how long it takes for him to "regenerate" his body, to what extent his wraith durability goes, etc.
lament prawn
i dont see how its more survivable
especially if we assume its a high caliber round and without any armor protection, just goes in one end and out the other and boom
idk why i keep getting into theoretical stuff when it really wont matter at all in the story
devout sable
power level discussions are counterproductive, because they tend to ignore the fact that most combat is heavily circumstantial
that combat outcomes depend on environment, resources, strategy, luck
worthy rose
Getting your head hit by a bullet is lethal, obviously, but getting your body electrocuted to ashes is worse.
devout sable
in terms of pure strength, the strongest ones are Doomfist, Zarya, Orisa, Winston (enraged), Roadhog
in term of difficulty to kill, Reaper
but plenty other heroes would've been able to defeat them, too
dusk trail
so... random question is tracer official trans or what
dusk trail
idk theres just a bunch of jokes online about it so i questoning the legitmincy of it
i'm a junkrat main
peak escarp
don't get your information from jokes
worthy rose
When will Zenyatta get more backstory?
limpid agate
Within 2 years
valid terrace
Wonder if Zenyatta and Mei or Wrecking Ball have met up traveling at some point
Or Bastion
Bastion likely being the best matchup character wise
peak escarp
Mei could have met Zen (and Genji) while she was in the Himalayas
worthy rose
That feels awfully convenient
Like they need to meet up for story purposes, so they just happen to bump into each other.
lament prawn
i dont mind small coincidences that are meant to be overlooked but yeah thats a bit of a stretch
unless there was a landmark or area both parties were drawn to
peak escarp
Mei was there investigating abandoned research stations
it's not impossible that she would stop in at the village where Genji and Zen live
clever tapir
yea, reaper seems pretty crazy strong, lore-wise
i do like the lore that the shotguns are actually sort of part of him
final compass
That’s confirmed?
clever tapir
nah, i don't think so
worthy rose
He's strong not just because of his wraith powers, but also because of his weapons.
In Recall he was dominating Winston. In the cinematic trailer he was holding his own in a 1v2 against an enraged Winston and Tracer.
If his shotguns are apart of him, he probably uses his powers to make them more enhanced than standard shotguns.
limpid agate
"You weren't given those guns to throw them around like trash"
I think they may be real
worthy rose
They are certainly not normal shotguns, and that can be seen when he uses the Death Blossom. They are most likely supernatural and enhanced by his own wraith powers.
Before he got his wraith powers, he used shotguns as we’ve seen in the retribution event. It could be possible that he did some experiments with his abilities and figured out that he could enhance weapons.
Yeah
My theory is that he just materializes them out of nowhere
He can create weapons with his mind and just makes shotguns because he got used to them
Maybe a wraith-like version of Symmetra or the Shimada dragons?
That is a valid theory.
I don’t think Blizzard has Reaper throwing around shotguns for no reason.
I doubt they've actually given some thought like we did.
Maybe they just wanted Reaper to look cool. We might never know.
Agreed. At the end of the day it's a relatively minor detail of Reaper
If they want to give some character development to him, I doubt they'll cover the topic of how his weapons function...
devout sable
@dusk trail none of the heroes are known to be canonically trans
Tracer and Soldier are canonically gay tho
and there may be some more LGBTQ representation among the cast that we don't yet know of
bi Genji, cough
devout sable
it's not really magic
he seems to have gained his abilities through Moira's modifications, and my theory is that the extensive damage he received in the HQ explosion rendered him unstable
peak escarp
it's not magic its genetics
vagrant glen
I think gengi is male
worthy rose
He is.
devout sable
wha
peak escarp
!!shitposting @worthy rose
twilit nacelleBOT
@worthy rose Shitposting will result in a loss of access.
worthy rose
bro i better get a mercy cinematic ":(
worthy rose
@worthy rose that's cringe
worthy rose
Reaper was "given" his guns. Mccree reminds him of this, so whomever said he creates them "just because" is wrong-- Soldier 24 & Reyes Skins would like a word with you. Secondly, it's most likely the fact that he can rematerialize himself, that allows him to do the same with his weapons.
worthy rose
That, or he just has several pairs that aren't quick to stow or reload, so he drops them and goes back to get them later.
peak escarp
being "given" his guns could just be a turn of phrase
like Mei saying Mercy doesn't look a day older
zenith prawn
“Psssssst...hey kid, wanna buy a shotgun?”
trail oak
5 dolla
placid monolith
"Got some rare things on sale, stranger!"
worthy rose
That's actually pretty funny
Anyway, Reaper was given his wraith powers by Moira
And Moira can use said powers to create objects like the damaging globe. So maybe it's the same thing with Reaper and his shotguns? He uses his wraith-like powers to conjure objects?
fossil kindle
Perhaps some form of portal esk things
He reaches into his cloak to pull em out
And he can de-materialise himself as shown in wraith form
golden obsidian
fossil kindle
Thats possible to
Also the rounds he fires are purple
Implying that its not actual bullets
Shadow-bullets >:)
fossil kindle
Also just a game
In the words of sigma.... "The universe has no obligation to make sense to you..."
Or in our case
The game
clever tapir
oh, i like sirearl's explination
where like, there's a capacity of 3 or 4 pairs, and when they disappear, reaper is sortof regathering their essence to make into a new shotgun
spiral yarrow
That sounds logical
acoustic spindle
yeah that makes sense
worthy rose
s<cnsncslzn cklzncklxdncjòkxdnvò
Or he just doesn't go through that many shotguns in one fight. Shoot, drop, shoot some more, win, clean up and reload.
valid terrace
I don’t think Reaper is one to clean up his messes
Although it would be a funny image
And seeing that his weapons along with his persona are still mostly unknown they probably have another way of returning to him
opal thicket
patent jay
or he just has an infinite void of guns :/
worthy rose
That’s how I’ve always thought of it.
his gear did come along with him in smoke form
It's such a useful ability, now that I think about it
In battle there are often cases where you are cut off from any weapon
But the problem doesn't present itself to Reaper because he can just materialize a new pair of shotguns in times of need
Or something like that, yeah.
I don't think he can just create them from nothing, because conservation of mass and he can't just carry a bunch of metal on him and memorize the blueprints.
Probably does the smoky thing on the dropped shotguns, then does it again on the shells to put them in directly.
Oh yeah for certain. I'm not pretending he can just summon 20 shotguns out of nowhere, though it'd be fun to watch
worthy rose
Reaper goes through airport security, drops a never-ending stream of shotguns onto the x-ray conveyor
lament prawn
hmm yes let me put these lethal shotguns through to check if they’re dangerous
pastel fjord
reapers pocket dimension of nothing but shotguns
pliant sparrow
Would detectors detect a pocket dimension
worthy rose
Thise whole discussion reminded me of this animation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbVnnCOJ1RQ
true fulcrum
I love this convo so much
tiny geyser
Does anyone have any full lore on Baptiste? If not, I would love to brainstorm with someone about it
peak escarp
most of it can be found on his bio or in the short story "What You Left Behind"
he's a close friend of Sombra's and a likely candidate to join new Overwatch
peak escarp
@tiny geyser what did you want to discuss about him?
peak escarp
why have a fan-made background when an official one already exists
he was orphaned by the omnic crisis and decided to join the Caribbean Coalition once he was old enough to help protect others
when the Caribbean Coalition disbanded, he couldn't find any other outlet for his skills - except for Talon
last inlet
While it might be fun, this isn't really the channel for it. Just official lore
hollow dew
Hi
peak escarp
howdy! have questions about the lore?
worthy rose
@peak escarp The operative phrase wasn't "given". I was clarifying that he had them prior to his transformation, and being his weapon of choice, he continues to use them. This was in response to someone suggesting that he materialized them at random, or by some frivolous process of selection.
peak escarp
gotcha
peak escarp
his guns and outfit clearly aren't made up of his cells - they fade with him for the same reason Tracer's clothes blink and recall with her
valid terrace
Well then they probably still have the ability to return to him or at the very least channel his wraith abilities like Tracer’s tech
It would be strange to develop them separately just to match his condition
valid terrace
Just doesn’t seem very mysterious and implies that there isn’t as much uniqueness to Reaper’s abilities and even that Moira or some other Talon scientist actually has a hard factual knowledge of his condition
I’ve always thought of him as more of an experiment than another soldier and I would hate if that changed
peak escarp
the snipers from Retribution and Storm Rising seem to have smoke-like abilities
Reaper isnt entirely unique
he was an experiment
then Moira perfected it on herself (and possibly others)
valid terrace
Yeah you’re probably right, but it still takes away from his mysterious murder terrorist persona when more and more of his abilities are duplicated
teal meadow
Reaper has some unique ability compared to them, and also he is immortal apparently
worthy rose
You're either immortal or you're not
slim haven
What is lucios lore?
worthy rose
He was a boy from Rio de Janeiro, Brazil. He’s a famous DJ that inspired many people or something along those lines.
teal meadow
Basically he is an influencer
placid monolith
His father was a genius whose work Lucio stole from Vishkar Group who in turn have Talon ties. I think.
limpid agate
To clarify
His father created the core tech for the sound suppression gear Vishkar used. Lucio says they stole the invention from his father, so he stole it back and hooked it up to his own gear.
valid terrace
He liberated his country from Vishkar control by rallying his people through music and such
Securing him as one of the most famous musicians in the ow universe
Also why he doesn’t like Symmetra btw
peak escarp
it's kinda funny
from the wording of his bio, it seems like he only became a famous DJ after his successful revolution
so he probably used his fame from that to promote his music
"You're welcome Rio, also check out my Soundcloud."
lament prawn
shameless plugging smh
iron plume
LMAO
but you'd think "music that brought down a big brother corporation" would sell itself
peak escarp
"We tossed out Vishkar! Don't forget to like, comment and subscribe!"
😂
but seriously, his revolution against Vishkar probably would have gotten global news coverage, which would lead to biography segments about the rebel leader and people finding out he is a DJ and checking out his jams
so it makes sense
what I'd like to know is: was Lucio's father's invention legally the intellectual property of Vishkar (since he was their employee and he may have invented it using company time/resources), or did they actually steal it from him like Lucio claims?
devout sable
eh, he probably just feels that Vishkar exploited him
and it could be that something shady happened, with Lucio's father finding something out about Vishkar that he didn't approve of
which may or may not have something to do with Vishkar's father not being around anymore
it's doubtful that the tech was literally stolen
and Lucio only says "why don't you ask your bosses where they got it from", doesn't he?
peak escarp
I don't have the exact lines in front of me
limpid agate
!!wiki Lucio#Quotes
twilit nacelleBOT
For more information about the game, please refer to the wiki: https://overwatch.gamepedia.com/Lucio#Quotes
devout sable
"Vishkar's using you, just like they used my father. You just wait. You'll see."
"Stole? Kh. You need to go ask your bosses where it all came from; then we can talk."
peak escarp
so Lucio feels like Vishkar used his father and that the tech should legally be his for inventing it
Symmetra points out that Lucio's father was an employee
he may have even invented it for Vishkar
craggy wharf
the truth often lies in between the two stories
iron plume
ok centrist
peak escarp
even if it was legally Lucio's father's invention, Lucio is still a criminal for stealing it
limpid agate
its not a centrist thing
It may very well be in between the two
Since Lucio and Sym are both working for extremes
odd sphinx
I think lucio has one of this rebel stories that are so horrible cliched, but I also want to know why vishkar doesn’t come arrest him?
Like that probably wouldn’t be difficult
iron plume
yeah we want to arrest this international superstar who stole our equipment made to
uh
you know what never mind carry on
– vishkar to authorities, presumably
limpid agate
Why doesn't Vishkar arrest him?
Vishkar isn't legally authorized for that
It's a construction and property business
Not a country
They're not the FBI. They're more or less slumlords
They don't have political authority
peak escarp
plus the people of Rio would see him as a martyr and he'd be even more popular
worthy rose
Plus have you seen any semblance of what it's like to get intellectual property back from another country
China steals a lot of American ideas and products and just rips it off for the most part so gl with that from an Indian construction company from a brazillian DJ hero/kinda revolutionary
iron plume
They'd be able to arrest him if he was still in their city
authorities wouldn't even need to know
or
if he was a regular thief instead of an international superstar freedom fighter they'd get some police force to
but he's not in their city nor a regular thief so tough shit
he's a "criminal" but the people he wronged have even more shady shit they'd rather not draw attention to
which brings me to the point of how the hell does vishkar still exist
if there's a world famous musician talking about how they're essentially brainwashing people
worthy rose
That's under the assumption that he stole it directly from India instead of say a compound they had in Brazil
peak escarp
they probably have very good lawyers/damage control
iron plume
fair
i'm not talking court of law wise tho
among the real world corporations, the ones that do the most obvious "bad" shit are usually out of the public eye
like the PMCs
you might have heard of blackwater but likely none of the others
and blackwater changed their name three times
whereas vishkar has a huge-ass logo on their buildings
I recognize I'm in aminority on this one but I'd be super down for a political thriller short talking about how people try to take them down
fuck it, make Sam do it
would be a nice role for him to fit
iron plume
I guess Vishkar is in the superhero universe version of the Amazon area
people don't like them and some politicians talk about how maybe we should make them stop that shit but they're too powerful
peak escarp
we know big corporations are scum (look at Monsanto), but yeah, there's nothing we can so about it
iron plume
Monsanto is another example of what I mean tho
sure they're on the public mind for their fuckups but like
you don't really see them
Vishkar makes themselves way more obvious
peak escarp
how so?
iron plume
the big fuckoff buildings with their big fuckoff logo on them?
peak escarp
I guess big corporations are kinda invisible unless you know about them
for example, all the food companies are hidden behind other brands
iron plume
"hidden" is a bit rich for those
peak escarp
it gives the illusion of variety
iron plume
most people won't know Perrier is Nestle but they know what Nestle is
I'm talking more about like
Halliburton
peak escarp
maybe Vishkar is just good at convincing people that all the good they've done outweighs the bad
iron plume
or they just buy politicians lol
worthy rose
I don't necessarily think Vishkar itself is evil
I don't have a particular reason other than I like to see evil intent and with the exception of Sanjay I don't think that is a fair mark to Vishkar. That's like saying all of Oasis is evil because Moira is there as one of their leaders
devout sable
for the most part, it is
iron plume
I don't think they intend to be evil
devout sable
it's definitely ruthless and repressive
peak escarp
it depends on Sanjay's position in the company, and whether they're aware of what he does
gentrification isn't evil, even if it harms people
Symmetra is convinced they're making a better world for those people
iron plume
bit of a jump from "gentrification" to what vishkar does
iron plume
they also act as the de facto tyrannical government is my point
sly ferry
Is there any lore telling how moira joined talon
devout sable
After Overwatch was disbanded, O'Deorain was forced to turn to unconventional sources of funding. This time, she was invited to join the scientific collective that had founded the city of Oasis. Yet some have whispered that the shadowy Talon organization had already been supporting her for years, aiding her experiments in exchange for utilizing the results for their own purposes.
we don't know the specifics on when and how she joined
it could be that she's been already in touch with Talon even before the Venice incident
worthy rose
!!bruh
peak escarp
it's implied that she has been either working for Talon or giving/selling them her experiments since Retribution
worthy rose
Do they act as the government?
I thought Vishkar's thing was to build their brand world wide while exploiting cheap labor from the places where those people lived
peak escarp
Vishkar imposed controls on the residents in the name of building a more orderly society: enforcing curfews, cracking down on what the company perceived as lawless behavior, and exploiting the populace as a cheap labor force.
worthy rose
how do they enforce a curfew?
they're like... architects and I assume land developers
frosty shell
either that or they use homeowners' association type rules
They likely still own all their developments, which would allow them to do the first two things
junior robin
iron plume
take a guess
valid terrace
Too French and super sadistic
worthy rose
If the Overwatch universe is in the spider verse, Widowmaker would probably be it’s version of Spider-Man.
devout sable
this is very off-topic
tranquil sun
reaper is literally just pissed soldier took his gold medal
placid monolith
these guys loved each other
peak escarp
and?
placid monolith
I'm happy it's confirmed
peak escarp
there's a difference between loving someone and being in love with someone
Reyes and Morrison were really close friends - they survived a war together
also I'm fairly certain Reyes is straight
placid monolith
Sshh, audience interpretation is an important part of art's dialogue.
peak escarp
not if it contradicts canon
placid monolith
Ah well. I can dream
iron plume
kay that’s enough of that
limpid agate
Reaper was married with a family, presumed straight
Soldier was alone for 30 years, confirmed gay
It's a senseless ship
placid monolith
It is what it is. Doesn't stop me from enjoying it.
teal meadow
So.. is the entire continent of australia just like junkertown?
teal meadow
So junkertown is the only place post apocaliptic?
worthy rose
That and the region around it that got irradiated.
peak escarp
yep
placid monolith
How does Junkertown connect to the rest of the story with OW's return and Talon getting active?
peak escarp
it doesn't really
lament prawn
a lot of the heroes dont
i dont mind at all, it allowed for more variety in the cast and builds more on the universe, so its not as if the only characters that exist in OW are just ow/talon and everyone else is just irrelevant
although its possible (im hopeful too) that they'll eventually tie them into the battle and have them pick sides
peak escarp
it's possible they could connect to the main story in the future
lament prawn
yeah
peak escarp
but right now they don't
I think the closest they get is robbing the Banco de Dorado during the riots that Sombra set up in Dorado
worthy rose
Do you think that was intentional on Sombra's part
or was that the ingenuity of junkrat/roadhog
peak escarp
I think it was just the Junkers taking advantage of the situation
worthy rose
You think the junkers are on Sombra's radar at all?
peak escarp
probably not
final compass
When did reaper join talon? Was it before the fall of overwatch or after?
peak escarp
after
final compass
Ok
empty gorge
soldier 76 is the star lord of overwatch
true fulcrum
thanks for this deep lore
timid eagle
Yeah, if Retribution is any indication, Gabriel seemed to prefer to be the number 2 rather than hold the more political position that Jack had taken.
If it weren't for Gabe transforming into a looney edge lord assassin, he seemed pretty lax, but focused.
peak escarp
he liked to be in control - he made plans and followed them (and still does as Reaper, if the voice lines are any indication)
timid eagle
Speaking of, when Reaper kills a character affiliated with Overwatch, he says "Another one off my list." But when he kills Junkrat, he says that line.
So I'm confused if that could be an error, if there's context that I'm missing out.
timid eagle
I've noticed it whenever I kill an enemy Junkrat as Reaper.
midnight shoal
Honestly i think Reaper's wraith powers are a result of botched nano-bots. That's how he creates a seemingly infinite supply of shot guns, the nano bots collect matter from his kills and turn them into matter he can use. The shotguns always regenerate after he throws them away because the nano-bots think they're a part of him, so they re-create/ regenerate them, as if it was a part of his body. That's also why he heals himself by doing damage, the nano-bots 'drain' the matter from injured enemies and uses it to heal Reaper by re-generating his body to be the same as its 'base form' which his suit, shotguns and body are all a part of.
peak escarp
we know what Reaper's wraith abilities are
its cellular degeneration and regeneration caused by genetic manipulation
there are no nanobots in Overwatch
midnight shoal
Technically Mercy's healing tech is nano-bot based
peak escarp
no it isnt
midnight shoal
sauce?
peak escarp
its nanobiotics
midnight shoal
hmm
peak escarp
Ziegler rose to become the head of surgery at a prominent Swiss hospital before pioneering a breakthrough in the field of applied nanobiology that radically improved the treatment of life-threatening illnesses and injuries. It was this expertise that attracted the attention of Overwatch.
her bio doesn't mention nanobots anywhere
midnight shoal
Then that doesn't really make sense. How are his guns and armour considered cellular/organic? How does his wraith powers de-generate them?
midnight shoal
Hmm. My solution works much better, oh well.
midnight shoal
yeah but science fiction can make sense
lament prawn
its not supposed to make sense, its a super stylized game universe where abilities either support the story or the gameplay, not a documentary
peak escarp
as long as it has internal logic, things don't have to make real-world sense
midnight shoal
I mean the other ridiculous sci-fi aspects of the game are kinda believable
or i just have to suspend my disbelief
peak escarp
the explanation given for his wraith powers doesn't make sense when applied to his gear/weapons, but that's the only explanation we have
midnight shoal
i hope they ret-con it
lament prawn
they can throw in whatever lore excuse for his guns, but lets be honest, the only reason its a thing in the first place is because reaper literally tossing guns away instead of reloading is a nice addition to his character and was a cool addition to the game, so it doesnt matter what the explanation is
same reason mercy looks like an angel and can fly
midnight shoal
but that can be hand-waved away with BS sci-fi tech. Guns being organic can't (Unless they actually are)
Even if Reaper's powers are retconned to be nano-bots, how does that break the lore?
peak escarp
because Moira doesn't work with nanobots
midnight shoal
well the Moira ties...
peak escarp
and she caused his wraith powers
midnight shoal
fair