I'm being argumentative because someone countered my point, that's how debates work.
#lore-discussion
worthy rose
lament prawn
uhhh
limpid agate
@worthy rose And I ended it. Final warning
lament prawn
that it'd be a slow process and she is unlikely to join overwatch afterwards?
the way i see it at least
limpid agate
Best case, I suppose
I dunno, I don't see her ever reverting or breaking her conditioning personally
But that's just me
I see it as destructive to her character identity
last inlet
Overwatch has plenty of characters who do good without being in overwatch
If anything, I would see her going anti-hero
That's if she has "redemption"
lament prawn
if it happens, it'll be less of an "undo" and more of a bandage on a wound that never heals
limpid agate
At the very least, sure.
But of all the heroes, other than Doomfist, she is the most loyal to Talon
I can't see her breaking from them
If she does, all that's left is the primary leader, and a group using it for their own purposes
lament prawn
tbh someone who was conditioned, in my eyes, is more likely to be more loyal than someone that joined because they wanted it from the start
so if there's a process to at least partially rid her of the conditioning, or it slowly wears behind talon's back, it might happen
not any time soon
maybe there will be another more likely arc for her beforehand that leads to that somehow (?)
limpid agate
How does conditioning wear off. If every hit makes her feel alive, and she continues to make hits, shouldn't that be a positive feedback loop?
last inlet
Well, live differently
limpid agate
In other words
Over time it gets stronger rather than weaker
Wearing off feels like a suggestion that there's a time limit on her conditioning
But to me, it looks like the opposite is true of her
worthy rose
Which is what she bluntly states at the end of Alive, Yes
lament prawn
what
worthy rose
That she feels a thrill
worthy rose
I misread then
I don't see that being very logical though
Why should that feeling of thrill devolve with time?
limpid agate
Yeah I don't see that personally either
worthy rose
If it is what makes her feel the most alive?
lament prawn
i realized that all this time i merely assumed that all her gerard talk was recent, and that when she was first conditioned she really did feel absolutely nothing
can someone confirm or deny
peak escarp
we dont know
limpid agate
We first saw her kill Ana sometime after she killed Gerard
Her next appearance is Alive
peak escarp
she showed anger when Ana's shot broke her visor
limpid agate
!!loreComics
twilit nacelleBOT
Comics:
Train Hopper: https://bit.ly/2vaOY0I
Dragon Slayer: https://bit.ly/2GpRZRk
Going Legit: https://bit.ly/2InZUkm
A Better World: https://bit.ly/2DeJGpK
Mission Statement: https://bit.ly/2UFLC5o
Destroyer: https://bit.ly/2XcYZ9G
Legacy: https://bit.ly/2DgM1jQ
Old Soldiers: https://bit.ly/2KLILTV
Junkenstein: https://bit.ly/2Is3WZ4
Reflections: https://bit.ly/2IoZQkr
Binary: https://bit.ly/2IzNvJy
Uprising: https://bit.ly/2UCymhE
Masquerade: https://bit.ly/2IzNTI0
Wasted Land: https://bit.ly/2DeKB9G
Searching: https://bit.ly/2Gh3jy6
Retribution: https://bit.ly/2XePmHG
Mini-Comics:
Return of Junkenstein: https://bit.ly/2Gqp7Z8
Yeti Hunt: https://bit.ly/2VPmxRI
limpid agate
Read Legacy
worthy rose
could you give me the tldr
limpid agate
Ana is alive, but everyone thought Widowmaker killed her
worthy rose
oh okay
limpid agate
She shot Ana's scope and it exploded into her head
worthy rose
i assumed so i just wanted to make sure
lament prawn
ana hesitated while aiming because she recognized widowmaker as gerards wife, amelie
peak escarp
Ana, Soldier and Reaper are believed to be dead (to the public and most of the heroes)
limpid agate
The cast still thinks Ana, Jack, Gabriel, Bastion, and Amelie are dead.
devout sable
I noticed that we sort of have a habit of actually talking about Ana, Jack, and Gabriel being killed
even though neither actually died
limpid agate
Less words to say killed when it's common knowledge they never died
Than "appeared to havekilled"
peak escarp
Genji was also thought to be dead, but only to his brother/the Shimada clan
devout sable
yeah, I guess there isn't a single passive verb that conveys "was severely injured and thought dead"
oh yeah, we talk about Genji like that too
lament prawn
tracer after slipstream too, right?
peak escarp
briefly
devout sable
hm, sorta?
lament prawn
didnt they have a funeral or something
peak escarp
she was gone
devout sable
nope
last inlet
Nnnnno
devout sable
I mean, not that we know of
lament prawn
ok my mind is making stuff up
last inlet
They found her and Winston had his device ready
devout sable
I guess we have a habit of talking about characters dying even if they didn't when they're thought to be dead for an extended period of time
Ana, Morrison, Reyes, Genji
... then again, Mei was thought dead for a while too
but wasn't "killed" in a fight, so
so, presumed to be killed in combat, I guess
peak escarp
there haven't been any heroes that we the players thought were dead but then later were revealed to be alive, correct?
they've all just been dead/missing in universe but we knew they were alive
devout sable
I think there was a time when Genji was stated to be dead, before his reveal?
or was it just a mention of Hanzo killing his brother, with no name mentioned?
Idk
and I guess it wasn't always confirmed that Reaper is Gabriel Reyes before the Old Soldiers comic?
strongly implied, what with Reyes being a Reaper skin
but not confirmed
peak escarp
yeah
I think Ana's fate was left ambiguous on purpose
because they knew she was coming
even Pharah's bio doesn't mention what happened to her
imagine following Overwatch just through the lore, not playing the game
the revelation that Reaper is Gabriel would be such a bombshell
also it just occurred to me - Legacy is the last time Jack saw Ana alive, and Old Soldiers is their next meeting after that
limpid agate
At least we saw and heard about some of Ana's development over the course of those 6 years
We know nothing of Widowmaker's development or behaviour between Legacy and Alive
It appears as though she was the same throughout the years.
Its hard to tell if she has cooled off, or there just hasn't been another scenario worthy of making her lose her temper.
Tracer has never landed a shot on her, for example. She did steal her gun, but... That was the cinematic trailer. She was pretty underdeveloped back there.
I think Ana's fate was left ambiguous on purpose
The only character that was known to be dead to the audience
But then came back from the dead
Was Hanzo's brother
And even then, we had promotional art of Genji before that.
I don't think we will see a similar plotline again unless they start intentionally sowing seeds of doubt that someone is still alive
If someone is dead, it is safe to assume they will stay dead
Gerard, Antonio, Vialli, Balderich, dead.
peak escarp
Hanzo's brother being dead but having Genji in the art is similar to Gabriel Reyes being dead but seeing Reaper
we just didn't know they were the same person
limpid agate
Right. Reyes was another.
if we met a character who was 40 years old, but with an unknown real name
Just an alias
Them being someone like Emre is not off the table
But at this point, with how far we've come
Gerard staying dead is safe
Unkilling Gerard would be pointless. Genji was pre-launch and Reyes was introduced after Reaper existed and was still a mystery.
I dont know if there were other hints that Genji was a shimada or not
peak escarp
they could pull that with Liao, since their status is unknown
limpid agate
Yes
But not anyone we currently know to be dead. They're all, well.
Dead
They would need to reintroduce new evidence that they may not be dead
peak escarp
it was like that with Sojourn, linking two characters we thought were different people
limpid agate
Some say the spacesuit on HLC was trying to do that with Harold Winston
But there's been nothing to support that since
In fact, we've just gotten more stuff against that.
Someone speculated that the Lucheng CEO mentioned on Lijiang was Harold... And now we know that's Dr Ciao
peak escarp
the space suit was probably missing because he was the only one with time to put it on
limpid agate
Sojourn is a good example of that
She existed in two places
And they were then linked
peak escarp
eject someone in a space suit out onto the moon's surface, they'll still die - they'll just die slower
limpid agate
I'm sensing they might need to write a comic or short story showing his death a little more explicit
Because it still feels pretty vague
But i can't imagine he's still alive if he has been ejected into space ~11 years ago
Give or take a year
peak escarp
Sigma has a kill line on Winston
"Say hello to Dr. Winston for me"
I think Dr. Winston's (and the other scientists) death was publicly known
even if Lucheng didnt know what happened, like with Ecopoint Antarctica, they were probably written off a long time ago
Harold being alive would cause so many plot holes
lament prawn
did the OW2 rumor say it was gonna be announced at blizzcon?
im counting down the days regardless
peak escarp
people have been guessing that because it's the best time to make an announcement like that
lament prawn
ah
peak escarp
I always look forward to Blizzcon
I like the panels about game design and worldbuilding
lament prawn
i love watching those too
peak escarp
and of course the What's Next panel where they explain the new hero
and the VA panel
wonder who will be on it this year
lament prawn
ill be happy with whatever hero they give us and a short, regardless of who's the main character, and if they announce another OW game then just
peak escarp
another OW game would be great, regardless of genre/platform
lament prawn
i want OW to stay relevant for a long time as a franchise, it has so much potential and im tired of the current game being dragged down because the nature of it allows for some much room for negativity
peak escarp
I've avoided most of that by staying in the lore community and only playing the game with friends
lament prawn
me too, but i cant hide from the in-game chat
i keep it on for communication and the once in a blue moon occurrence of a friendly player i add every now and then
what other places are there to chat about the lore?
peak escarp
theres a few lore-focused discord servers out there
iron plume
don't tell them about the secret room
peak escarp
I sorta took over the r/overwatchlore server and now we're not associated with them
lament prawn
wait what
peak escarp
not like they're active to begin with
lament prawn
who's "them"
lament prawn
ah okay
clever silo
Overwatch lore server? Sounds weird.....
worthy rose
yello
peak escarp
the lore community isnt immune from toxicity though - we've got people saying "lol what lore" and insulting the writers constantly
signal pivot
b r u h that's sad
peak escarp
they're obviously the people who don't care about the lore
signal pivot
im in love with the lore
worthy rose
tbh i just got into over watch a little while ago
signal pivot
lol
peak escarp
welcome
worthy rose
so idk what the hell im doing
peak escarp
if you have questions, just ask
worthy rose
oh ok
Start with the pins
The shorts, comics, short stories answer most questions.
peak escarp
people here will tell you more than you ever wanted to know
worthy rose
wait brb
worthy rose
There isn't a ton of stuff yet
peak escarp
she is a robot connected to McCree
signal pivot
dam
worthy rose
Was in Overwatch, or somehow related
peak escarp
we don't know yet
signal pivot
;u;
peak escarp
we will know when she gets added to the game, which will probably happen soon
signal pivot
ooo
peak escarp
she's the top guess for next hero
signal pivot
that's cool to know
peak escarp
there's a slim chance it's someone else
but Echo is most likely
then Sojourn and Msuga will probably be after her
devout sable
@signal pivot I do have some theories on Echo's background, but it's pure speculation so far
signal pivot
s p i l l
also, for me, i'd think she'd be a healer. prolly not tho.
ooo, if they added d.mon that'd be cool
mortal marlin
zen lore
peak escarp
what about it?
mortal marlin
non existant
near umbra
Do you guys think zenntya would ever meet Hanzo and help him like he did with genji
bleak hazel
devout sable
@signal pivot well, my theory is that Echo is a copy of someone's consciousness, someone who used to be a living human
you know, an echo
I'm basing it on her name, her design and human face, and the fact that the Overwatch team avoided calling her an omnic
lament prawn
yeah but what with the echo-ish designs doctor pointed out on anubis
her case could be different though since i dont recall them having the hologram type face on them
devout sable
yep, that could be the difference
or perhaps, she wasn't supposed to be the only one preserved that way; it's just that something happened to the others
lament prawn
that would be cool though, a core member we dont know about that died and lives on through echo - her name kiiiind of fits for that scenario if you stretch it far enough....? no?
devout sable
yep, that's what I'm thinking
silver grove
Can we get a modern crusader
devout sable
... then there's Brigitte
silver grove
🙃
devout sable
ok, well, too bad, she's your modern crusader
silver grove
Oof
limpid agate
@low gate Use LFG channels only
peak escarp
Slignerd's theory is a bit farfetched for me
parlrticularly with the existence of other robots of the same model
peak escarp
those other models were just inert chassis
limpid agate
Exactly
peak escarp
if they were turned on and "alive" they might have faces
limpid agate
The one in Recall is on
peak escarp
early versions of Echo didnt have the projected face either
that could be a design feature they came up with after Recall was released
limpid agate
Fair
late crest
see into the IRIS
peak escarp
it would be an interesting twist, but I just don't think that's it
lament prawn
she could be just another model of omnic, but with that particular design i think there has to be something special or unique about her existence
whether it lines up with that theory or not
and the way she was put into storage for so long
peak escarp
I think I'd be disappointed if there isnt something special about her
we already have a nothing-special robot with Zenyatta
lament prawn
lmfao
peak escarp
jokes aside, that is the reason we get these characters as heroes
there is something special about them
lament prawn
i was thinking that as i typed it
but i mean, deeper than that
all the heroes have something special about them, whether its their mere existence such as winston or their abilities such as reinhardt
but with her im sensing something emotional or symbolic
spice nest
peak escarp
don't be gross
timid eagle
Eh, not really digging her design (and uncanny valley projected face), but I can see her being an important building block for the next stage.
lament prawn
the only issue i sort of kind of have with her design is that it feels like its overdoing the visual “appeal” in that meaning of the term
but i dont see whats wrong with the face
worthy rose
if she became a playable hero, what role would u think she would be in?
hasty surge
Well Bilzzard likes surprises
limpid agate
The odds is not Echo are exceptionally low
It's more likely this past year was unique with unknowns being introduced as heroes
And they'll go back to adding known characters
hasty surge
I see
near umbra
Echo is torb sister confirmed
Long lost twin
I am Jeff So yeah
The creator of over watch
peak escarp
!!shitposting @near umbra
twilit nacelleBOT
@near umbra Shitposting will result in a loss of access.
near umbra
I mean I see people making jokes though
But I actually do have a question
I don’t think anyone answered it
Do you think zen will ever meet hanzo
peak escarp
I did answer that
peak escarp
I said I thought they might cross paths if Hanzo follows Genji to Overwatch
near umbra
Oh yeahhhh
My bad
Then another question
Do you think they will ever introduce their dad?
peak escarp
their dad is dead
near umbra
Hanzo and genji
Wtf
I thought he just got to old
Damn
Need to refresh my lore knowledge
peak escarp
Upon the death of his father, the clan elders instructed Hanzo to straighten out his wayward younger brother so that he, too, might help rule the Shimada empire.
Following the clan leader's untimely death, Genji's older brother, Hanzo, demanded that Genji take a more active role in their late father's empire. Genji refused, enraging Hanzo.
near umbra
Another question then if you don’t mind?
peak escarp
their father had an untimely death, and since he was a yakuza leader, he was probably assassinated (maybe by Talon for refusing them, or maybe even by the clan elders who didn't like him saying no to Talon)
near umbra
Now you guys made another question pop up
Did talon ever try to get hanzo
Like as s member
peak escarp
there are voice lines from Widowmaker and Doomfist asking Hanzo to join Talon
near umbra
Really
peak escarp
we don't know if they ever canonically approached them, but he probably did get offers from Talon
near umbra
Oh I’ve remembered now
I’ve herad that 2nd one
And did soilder Always KNoW reaper was Reyes?
near umbra
It would be a cool thing if they made a sort of them meeting again for the first time
Like when he first found out
peak escarp
their first meeting post-Switzerland can be seen in the comic Old Soldiers
but judging by the dialogue, both of them knew the other's identities before they fought
near umbra
That’s the comic with Ana seeing his face right?
near umbra
I thought she was shocked because how he looked
peak escarp
could be both
she did know that Soldier was Jack (she calls him by name with his mask still on)
near umbra
Yeah maybe both and This isn’t about lore but it would be cool if they made a soilder skin if he was the one that changed and the same for repear
peak escarp
the only people that know that Reaper is Reyes are Ana, Soldier, Sombra, Moira and probably Doomfist
the only people that know that Soldier is Jack are Ana, Reaper, Sombra and Doomfist
near umbra
Yeah doom fist those because I remember him talking to reaper
About old memories
When he failed to kill winston
In the comic with doomfirst first returns
near umbra
Yeah there we go
peak escarp
they both know Ana is still alive
near umbra
Do you think reaper still cares?
peak escarp
hard to tell
near umbra
I think he does cause remember that pic they posted of reaper watching a family
It was confirmed that it wasn’t a random one
He was watching them from the alley
peak escarp
it was his family
possibly his son or daughter and their spouse and child
they're about the right age
peak escarp
Moira got the shadow thing from him
peak escarp
she experimented on him and gave him wraith powers, then she used that on herself and did it better
near umbra
Oh yeahhhhhh
peak escarp
and before that, he was a super soldier, same as Jack
peak escarp
yes
near umbra
Damn it was crazy how doom fist like destroyed every one
Did he attack numbi after he broke out
Or before
peak escarp
he was very powerful
after
he attacked the airport and inspired Efi to create Orisa as a defender of the city
peak escarp
before?
near umbra
When he fought Winston
peak escarp
Twitter
a lot of people thought it was Numbani
because at the end of the origin short, Doomfist is seen in Numbani
but the fight takes place in Singapore
near umbra
I’ve never seen that clip before thanks
You know what would have been cool
If somehow the Sombra was the girl from the soidler short
But I know she’s not
near umbra
Yeah but it would have been been cool if they did that
peak escarp
Alejandra (the little girl) knows Sombra though
peak escarp
she gave Zarya Sombra's real name in the comic "Searching"
near umbra
How does she know her real name
near umbra
She was part of the gang right?
peak escarp
yes
near umbra
Wow so much new information I got thanks
peak escarp
check the pins in this channel
near umbra
I think that’s all the questions I have
peak escarp
you can find all the shorts, comics and short stories listed there
and if you want all the articles and other stuff, check here:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BFYjC78shFuhpu4Fm0l99qKQznIc7lPouQaikD5YvkY/edit?usp=sharing
near umbra
Woah that’s cool
I’ll read up on if
It
Alright Thanks for everything
But before I go you play comp?
peak escarp
nope, I'm just here for the lore
peak escarp
same
urban sedge
I’ve heard someone commenting on Instagram that they think Moira’s eye mask thingy hides a scar
chrome coral
I feel like that could be the answer.
worthy rose
There is not too much Overwatch lore
flat mantle
I'll have to wholly disagree with you
the lore is one of the best things about this game, in my opinion
worthy rose
It's a mixed bag
There isn't a lot of lore unless you go really searching for it which a lot of people aren't necessarily going to want to do. Some want a simple story that is simply packaged and given to them. Most I assume don't know that Sombra has a hand in every pie and is likely how McCree found Echo and why Soldier was in Dorado to begin with.
Also I think ppl have an expectation of video game lore and how much and how rapidly it should be released which Blizzard has been really taking it's sweet time with releasing
flat mantle
see that's what I love about the lore. I'm the kind of person who enjoys poking around for it and having to look at 100 different things to understand it. I was definitely someone who enjoyed FNAF lore
shrewd falcon
Junkrat is 6’5”
limpid agate
and how rapidly it should be released
The thing about video game lore is
Most games have campaigns with a concise story
Where extra material can generally be found within the game
Such as in books, item descriptions, npcs, etc
Overwatch is in the select pool of games that didn't have that
Pace of new content is actually really high for a game
New stuff every couple months for story
placid monolith
Wasn't there talk of OW2 with promise of story or was that a rumour?
limpid agate
It just looks like little because the game itself doesn't have much in it
@placid monolith A second PVE Overwatch project is what's rumoured
Not a sequel
placid monolith
Ah, nice
limpid agate
Like, the schedule for new stuff is pretty fast compared to most games
flat mantle
regardless of the speed, I love and support all of it
limpid agate
For instance, if you're into Mortal Kombat, what did you get in the years between MKX and MK11
More specifically, between Tremor and then the MK11 trailer
Very little. But you get a lot when you get a new installment
flat mantle
btw nice kurisu profile pic
limpid agate
Contrast to OW, where the content progression is short and consistent... But in small bursts
Thanks
flat mantle
never played the mortal kombat games, but tbh I'm used to multiplayer games having very, very sparse story
limpid agate
Generally, yeah
The ones that do get story generally come with a campaign
Like Unreal Tournament
frosty shell
I don't think it ever says that Sojiro Shimada's death was "untimely" (forget what I said)
Him being killed is definitely plausible considering his line of work but it's never said anywhere
peak escarp
it literally does in the line that I quoted
frosty shell
I could definitely imagine the situation of him being murdered coming up in future lore though
peak escarp
Following the clan leader's untimely death, Genji's older brother, Hanzo, demanded that Genji take a more active role in their late father's empire.
limpid agate
Being assassinated is still untimely
frosty shell
I never said that wouldn't be untimely
limpid agate
Untimely only suggests it wasn't old age
frosty shell
I didn't notice it was specified that his death was untimely so that's why I was skeptical he was killed
I wonder if Talon killed him? It has been established he refused to work with them
limpid agate
Is a possibility
peak escarp
I like the idea that the clan elders killed him for turning down Talon's offer, but there's no proof of that
frosty shell
But if that was the case, why didn't Hanzo accept? Though it is possible he could've accepted but turned them down
Talon doesn't seem to have been involved in the post-Hanzo clan though
frosty shell
Yeah
peak escarp
it would just be an interesting twist, in my mind
limpid agate
But if that was the case, why didn't Hanzo accept?
I don't understand the confusion
Why would he
frosty shell
If the clan elders killed Sojiro for refusing to accept
Wouldn't they force Hanzo to accept?
limpid agate
They probably were gonna do that after he killed Genji/took the reigns of the clan
He never became leader
He was always just heir
frosty shell
Yeah that's plausible
I wonder if some of the other Shimada clan members who stayed on realized that Genji was still alive and hunting them down
If they do make separate PVE missions in a different OW game set in the past, it would be cool to have Sojiro as a playable character or someone you could see in game
I wonder what color dragon he had
I want to see lore from the past just as much if not more than lore in the present
peak escarp
I do too
but I'm eager to see the story move forward a bit
I think a lot of people want that
WYLB was good - it showed what's going on in present day (even if it's not the farthest thing in the timeline)
frosty shell
Yeah present day things are fine
Both Bastet and WYLB delivered a lot of things to advance the plot as well as crucial backstage
Which is nice
peak escarp
but at the same time, I want to see all these things in the past that are alluded to
the Prague mission, Reyes's sting against the Deadlock Gang, Hanzo and Genji's fight
frosty shell
Yep
Actually showing all of Hanzo and Genji's fight would be too gory for Overwatch, but some more descriptions would be nice
peak escarp
maybe not the actual fight, but the situation that led to it, and the immediate aftermath for both Hanzo and Genji
chrome coral
You ever wonder what Roadhog's life was like before the apocalypse?
worthy rose
there was no apocalypse
Let me rephrase
the world went into a world war like event but it wasn't the end of the world
Roadhog's
situation was he was a solar farmer I believe who didn't like omnics being given what was essentially his land and thus with the ALF Australian liberation front, fought to prevent it which also kinda led to the Australian omnium to explode and thus leading to junkertown of today
chrome coral
Yeah, I know that the it wasn't an actual apocalypse.
limpid agate
!!loreOnly @slender inlet
twilit nacelleBOT
@slender inlet This channel is for serious discussion strictly related to the lore of Overwatch. Shitposting will result in a loss of access.
zenith prawn
So are the Deadlock gang the only folks running around unironically dressed as cowboys? How do they get away with that?
peak escarp
they're dressed more like bikers than cowboys
McCree is the most cowboy of the group
but the rest are more biker
which makes sense, since they stole the name from a biker club
zenith prawn
But isn't everyone going to recognize them?
worthy rose
Also
The deadlock gang got shut down by blackwatch but I assume only recently returned back to form but to what extent I would say is unknown due to there being other founders but the only one we know of that is currently active in said group is Ashe
peak escarp
Deadlock wasn't completely shut down
it was hit by a sting operation and McCree (and probably other low-level mooks) got busted by Overwatch
Ashe and the other founders continued the gang
and Ashe probably took over entirely at some point
zenith prawn
If you’re going around in public advertising that you’re part of a criminal organization you’re gonna get shut down reaaaal fast.
limpid agate
If it it worked like that irl
peak escarp
the Hell's Angels seem to get by just fine
zenith prawn
Hells Angels get away with it by being a really big organization. Deadlock doesn’t seem to have that luxury.
peak escarp
we don't know how big Deadlock is
they were big enough 20 years ago to get Overwatch's attention
zenith prawn
The Overwatch universe seems to favor featuring small groups from large organizations, so it’s likely
hasty surge
So we know that there are still 2 unknown founders of deadlock
peak escarp
yes
worthy rose
I don't think they're going to become heroes because we already have enough cowboys for a sci-fi game.
peak escarp
why a cat?
placid monolith
Cats are cute
peak escarp
placid monolith
And futuristic
peak escarp
you're welcome
placid monolith
I think it's in a spray
urban sedge
OMG
Doggos
Can’t see Moira having any pets without getting the urge to experiment on them
sonic spoke
worthy rose
timid eagle
Moira is the sort that sees rabbits as “expendable”.
sage spruce
urban sedge
Moira is the sort that sees anything as expendable
gusty forge
have you seen the shop in numbani it's called Sigma
near the attackers' 2nd spawn
3rd spawn i mean
placid monolith
Yeah, I forget what kind of a store it appears to be.
deft hollow
It appears to be? You mean it's secretly something else?
anyways
limpid agate
!!shitposting @placid monolith
twilit nacelleBOT
@placid monolith Shitposting will result in a loss of access.
devout sable
@sage spruce what do you imagine Zen cinematic would be like?
placid monolith
Haha, I'm sorry. It was just too hard to resist. I'll resist the temptation in the future.
devout sable
personally, I imagine several potential scenes
placid monolith
I'd love to get some story for his work in Nepal.
devout sable
- Zenyatta and Mondatta joining/founding the Shambali
- Zenyatta talking to Mondatta about his decision to leave the Shambali
- Zenyatta wandering around the world
- Zenyatta fighting Genji, defeating him, and taking him in as his student
peak escarp
my ideal Zen short would be like Honor and Glory - flashbacks to Zen discussing his difference of ideology with Mondatta and leaving the Shambali framed by Genji asking Zenyatta to come with him back to Overwatch
devout sable
you're thinking of a present day encounter, huh?
doesn't an animated short need some combat action?
peak escarp
not necessarily
devout sable
to show off the abilities and such
devout sable
it did have ice walls
and Bastion did shoot at a bunch of trees
besides, I'd love to see Zenyatta use his kick in animated short
peak escarp
the part with Genji asking Zen to come with him could be during a sparring match/training
foggy notch
How do u know its a zen short?
worthy rose
They don't, it's speculation.
foggy notch
Thought they were assured of it with such high expectations.
limpid agate
The short will probably be at OWL halftime
peak escarp
I'm 99% certain we will get a short featuring Mercy this year
devout sable
what're you basing that on?
peak escarp
Yeah, for me, when it comes to Mercy, because I have a certain understanding of her, when they asked me to do some of the voice lines that went into the new short that was - it was difficult because she was a little bit tougher than usual, and a little bit less warm, so that took us a while because I had trouble finding that in her.
Lucie Pohl let it slip
there is a small chance she was talking about the cutscenes from Storm Rising, I think she means a proper short
but even without that, the end of WYLB indicates that Baptiste is heading to meet with Mercy, and that's likely to be shown in a short
worthy rose
Mercy murders a man confirmed
limpid agate
Mercy/Baptiste combo could be interesting
Baptiste would have a disproportionate amount is lore though
A short and a story in his first year
worthy rose
"A little bit tougher and less warm", oooh, interesting. A chance for her to show some spine
I'm kidding but that is fun; if the short is about mercy and more so how tougher she is, I imagine it would have to do with something like baptiste or if I had to take a gander, her showing the battle in her battle medic
limpid agate
I'm hoping it's what I outlined last time
She plays martyr to save innocents
And when she is about to die, Baptiste saves her
It fits in her character to not be the one that pulls the gun
But Talon/Reaper wants her dead.
devout sable
@worthy rose she's already shown it in Storm Rising
she was the de facto leader there tbh
even tho Tracer was technically in charge
worthy rose
I never played it because I took a break from the game during that period
devout sable
you've missed out a bit then
worthy rose
I only saw the final cutscene with her threatening Maximilien
lament prawn
watch the cutscenes if you havent
worthy rose
I do not know the dialogue each of them had throughout the mission
lament prawn
the intro cutscene doesnt have much story but its badass
worthy rose
most of storm rising was very lack luster when compared to most of the other archives event
devout sable
limpid agate
Tracer was the official leader of the squad
But Mercy was the one who acted like it
I think the two have an interaction about it too
peak escarp
like I said, there's a chance she means that scene, not a new short
but those scenes were called In Game Cutscenes by the dev team, not a short
worthy rose
She's not in the dev team so she might have just called it a short to be, well, short
peak escarp
and Jonny's reaction made it seem like this is the first he's heard of it
worthy rose
I'll hold my expectations for now, merely because I can't remember something like this ever happening with Blizzard in the past
worthy rose
And during an interview, yes
lament prawn
she's a voice actress, probably not too knowledgeable with the terms or it might have been just a mistake. the thing is, she must really be exaggerating the challenge of voicing mercy that way when it's like... 2 small lines, but at the same time, if she means an actual short, then it wouldnt be her first time voicing a more aggressive mercy
peak escarp
I didn't get it on video, but in February I met Gaku Space at a convention and he told me Genji would be featured in Archives this year
lament prawn
she also says "new" when from her perspective she voiced storm rising ages ago
peak escarp
everyone was certain it would be a Talon event, so I didn't believe him
worthy rose
The key here is the word "some of"
If Mercy was the focus of this short, why would she use the words "some of" Mercy lines?
peak escarp
because some of the time she was tough and some of the time she was friendly?
lament prawn
my last point means nothing actually, she wouldve recorded the short long ago as well considering how long they take to make
worthy rose
The "some of" refers to her voicelines in general, not just the aggressive ones.
peak escarp
people have different emotions when talking to different people
she had trouble with some of the less friendly lines
not all of them
worthy rose
Debatable.
What she could have been saying is that she was asked to do some lines in an unrelated short, and these lines appeared to be aggressive
peak escarp
when they asked me to do some of the voice lines that went into the new short that was - it was difficult because she was a little bit tougher than usual, and a little bit less warm
worthy rose
What she said doesn't mean that only some of the lines she was asked to do were aggressive
She could have very well been saying that that short is not about Mercy, that she was called to record some lines, and that all of those lines (which would still be just "some lines" in the entire short) happened to be less warm than usual
lament prawn
hold up, were her in-game interactions aggressive in storm rising? she couldve meant that too
lament prawn
ah
peak escarp
it's hard to know what she meant without asking her
worthy rose
It's ambiguous, that's why I don't want to take it at face value
It's not that I don't want a Mercy short, it's that I don't want to be disappointed
lament prawn
this is adding more than its taking away to the speculation that next short will be mercy
and im hyped
peak escarp
I already expected Mercy to get a short next
she's the last former-Overwatch member to be seen post-recall
and they've said they're almost done with the setup involving the recall answers
devout sable
it does seems she's most likely
peak escarp
barring any other information that comes out before then, my guess for Blizzcon is a Mercy short and Echo as hero 32
lament prawn
event so fire they skipped hero 32
peak escarp
I forgot what number we were up to
worthy rose
Sigma was 31
peak escarp
thanks
lament prawn
probably way too late to be recording voices for a short but????
worthy rose
You forgot the other hush
peak escarp
if it is for a short, then it supports my theory
lament prawn
yep
peak escarp
although yeah, it is pretty late (unless it's an old picture)
lament prawn
but that was sept 6th, and it takes so long to make shorts and they gotta record the voices before animating obviously
worthy rose
If it was posted like last week then it is way too late...
peak escarp
Jen and Matt recorded for Reunion the year before it came out
worthy rose
That is why I am skeptical that he is referring to an animated short. He could just be talking about some interactions with maybe Mauga if he is released sometimes next year
lament prawn
i highly doubt its just interactions, he straight up called it a project
peak escarp
could be recording for Archives already
lament prawn
maybe its the short after the next, or maybe its for the rumored game
worthy rose
I think you're overanalyzing this
It could just me a way of saying that recording new voicelines is a new project in his career or something
lament prawn
i dont think i am
just going off of the way he called it a project, hush hush, coming soon
its gotta be something bigger than interactions
peak escarp
either way, more interactions should be coming
Sigma's got his half all ready to go, and when they add the responses, they'll probably add other interactions too
tepid socket
glacial isle
Whoa there partner
limpid agate
@steep badge SFW
dense pebble
d
ember arrow
i
solar sluice
P
dry portal
C
devout sable
!!shitposting
twilit nacelleBOT
Shitposting will result in a loss of access.
amber steppe
hello anyone playin overwatch im new to the grou[
people can u call me robotwizard13 instead of chichi
worthy rose
This is lore, you might want to go to the lfg channels.
fresh jetty
Is torbs height actually cannon?
flat mantle
by the medical definition, he has dwarfism at that height
peak escarp
yep
he has an interaction with Mercy where he complains about headaches
chronic headaches are a side effect of dwarfism
peak escarp
we don't know how
peak escarp
it's "a story for another time"
foggy notch
Didnt
Yea that
Torb is so related to marudin in wow universe
Or muradin
I mean at first I thought they were the same people
And I guess marudin is considered a dwarf race in wow universe
Race Dwarf (Humanoid)
Check it here they look exactly the same
peak escarp
WoW is a video game in the OW universe
worthy rose
Who develops it then
peak escarp
Blizzard
worthy rose
So Blizzard exists in the Overwatch universe
I suppose they develop the same games they do in real life
worthy rose
I suppose some Overwatch characters are also aware of the fact that they somehow appear as easter eggs in those games that were produced so many decades ago
peak escarp
Overwatch the game doesn't exist in the OW universe
I assume that extends to any crossover material
flat mantle
I suppose you could say that the universes are different but there are overlaps in the characters within each one
tracer in HotS probably is not aware she also exists in OW
worthy rose
That's the example I had in mind, yes
Also the Winston pet in World of Warcraft or the Reaper player icon in Starcraft II
I suppose the games themselves are canon but the Overwatch perks that come from preordering Overwatch are not...
Because otherwise everyone would know about Reaper for example, since he appears briefly in Starcraft II and D.Va streams that
flat mantle
well both of those don't interact on a plot-level. there being a player icon of reaper does not mean he is a part of the WORLD, he is just a part of the GAME
does that make sense?
worthy rose
Yes
flat mantle
I also don't think the gameplay of overwatch is something the heroes in the game are aware of
worthy rose
It would be weird to have Tracer see herself in Heroes of the Storm
Or Lucio, or D.Va, or Genji
So Heroes is canon but the Overwatch heroes in it are not
peak escarp
the gameplay of Overwatch is not canon
flat mantle
well that would require quite literally travelling from one universe to another, which as far as humans today know, is impossible, and it's also not even proven that other universes exist
yeah there's no way it could be
flat mantle
that's pretty accurate
peak escarp
so the interactions aren't strictly things the heroes have said
but they are in-character and represent things they might say in certain situations
like for example, McCree doesn't know that Reaper is Reyes, but if he did and they met, he might scold him for wasting guns
peak escarp
!!shitposting
twilit nacelleBOT
Shitposting will result in a loss of access.
peak escarp
this is the lore discussion channel
bright edge
I believe that gameplay of overwatch is simulation of what would happen if we put certain heroes on a certain mission. Data was collected in real missions of overwatch universe but what happens in our matches is not
Athena the AI is announcer and everyone hears her
placid monolith
Is it canon or fanon that Gabriel made all the Halloween outfits?
worthy rose
He only made his own Halloween costume, but the others were impressed by his skill and asked him if he also wanted to make their real uniforms.
devout sable
@bright edge I mean, I don't think the game is supposed to have any connection whatsoever to the lore
as someone described once, it's like playing with figurines
worthy rose
How unbalanced OW would be if the characters' abilities were kept in-lore?
iron plume
very
worthy rose
Yeah.
Doomfist would have to be moved to 'tank' role, omnic heroes become obsolete due to Sombra's hax
Reaper would just be unkillable then
And Genji being able to deflect not just Hanzo's ult, but the dragons that come out of the arrows.
Also said Genji being able to use his Dragonblade anytime he wanted.
I mean, if we go by the lore Reaper would be strong enough to 1v2 Tracer and an ulting Winston, you can see why it would be ridiculous.
Ooooh, alright then.
If in-lore Reaper is unkillable, he might as well be moved to tank role
But then, all attacks pass through his wraith form in gameplay (I think) so that defeats his purpose of being a tank.
He is unkillable in the sense that he can activate Wraith Form at will (there's no cooldown) and that it actually allows him to fly
Or at least it certainly allows him to move much faster through the battlefield
Without taking into account the fact that his Death Blossom lasts much longer
Is it a bird? Is it a plane? NO, it's death from above! 
Pretty much
At least he did fly for a small moment once
During his retreat in the cinematic trailer
If I remember Reaper also used to have grenade launchers during development of OW.
Basically, Reaper can use wraith form anytime and become unkillable. Unless a wind blows his flying cells away.
Probably.
He's much more versatile in lore with his Wraith Form and he can use it during Death Blossom too
Also yes, he did have a grenade-like ability, which he used in the cinematic trailer to cover his retreat
Oooh, cool.
Though, makes me wonder if, considering they both have in-lore abilities, Reaper can beat Doomfist in 1v1.
If it's only physical strength, then Doomfist wins. If they can use their entire kit, then Reaper wins
Well that means Reaper's the most powerful hero (or villain) in OW lore.
Why are bad guys in OW game called 'heroes' anyways
Maybe Sigma or Moira could give him some trouble
But he is definitely top tier
serene sable
limpid agate
Reaper is only a contender for strongest
Alongside Winston, Orisa, Sigma, and Sym
I would not make Moira a contender
peak escarp
Moira might have wraith abilities, but she's not a fighter
Sigma also isn't a fighter
limpid agate
Moira has wraith powers, but Reaper is the better wraith combatant
Sigma is not a fighter, but his power is absurd
placid monolith
What's the lore reason for Moira's naruto run?
peak escarp
there isn't one
placid monolith
Ah okay
peak escarp
she's not actually an anime nerd - those are just references put into the game by the dev team
worthy rose
The dev team makes a lot of random references
I think Sigma has a voice line from Neil Degrasse Tyson
peak escarp
one of his telescope quotes is from Haruki Murakami, I think
these two are both from Haruki Murakami
the last one is from Carl Sagan
cunning ledge
dang those are some nice quotes
peak escarp
Winston has quotes from Carl Sagan, Sultan bin Salman Al Saud (a Saudi astronaut) and Archibald MacLeish (American modernist poet/writer)
Zarya quotes Yuri Gagarin (Russian cosmonaut and first man in space)
Moira says two Oscar Wilde quotes
everyone just comments on how small or peaceful it looks, or how it makes their problems seem less important
last inlet
I remember Brigitte's being underwhelming, but maybe it was because of her perceived lack of character in general
peak escarp
hers is "it really makes you think"
Baptiste still doesn't have a telescope line
but since Benz was back in the studio recently, hopefully it gets added in the next wave
timid eagle
For Soldier: 76, he’s the grumpy curmudgeon that said something along the lines of “Earth, I’ve done a lot for you. Hope you appreciate it.”
So he’s one of those exceptions for his telescope line.
And Mei makes a reference to her level spawn voice line “Our world is worth fighting for.” with “Our world IS worth fighting for....”
timid eagle
All I’m saying is not all the heroes have a telescope voice line that are complementing the earth for being peaceful/small or something philosophical.
worthy rose
I love how Reaper complimented the view.
peak escarp
Wrecking Ball's is funny: "He says the view is acceptable."
last inlet
He's probably seen it already, he's over it lol
dreamy hornet
Lmao
zinc pilot
@worthy rose yo
fresh jetty
^
How old is mercy, I heard someone say she’s like... 70... which cheats out with the lore... but not her face
peak escarp
correct
people say she's older than she looks, but that's based on misconceptions and images that have been retconned
fresh jetty
Ok
timid eagle
I generally agree about Brig. We sometimes get reminded about her gluttony towards sweets, working out, and her unhealthy obsession with cats....
But, like Mei, none of that is reflected with her in-game avatar.
pliant sparrow
Valk suit slows mercy ageing doesn’t it?
peak escarp
it heals her
pliant sparrow
That might as well slow ageing since ageing is caused by the death of cells
peak escarp
but she looks her age, so even if it does slow aging, it doesn't show
pliant sparrow
we don’t know how much she wears it
peak escarp
37 year old women aren't wrinkled and dont look much different from 30 y.o. women
pliant sparrow
Well yes
But i’m just saying, for the healing to take a really noticeable effect she’d probably have to wear it almost 24/7
peak escarp
she wears it in battle
pliant sparrow
But is she still actively in battle?
peak escarp
no, but that's when she would need healing
outside of battle she would have no need for healing
pliant sparrow
Apart from ageing cells
peak escarp
she's not that old, she doesn't need to heal aging cells
pliant sparrow
Cells start dying in peoples early thirties/late twenties though
iron plume
cells are dying literally all of the time
pliant sparrow
Thats true, but it would slow ageing
peak escarp
without the suit she would look exactly the same
maybe in 20-30 years she might look the same as now
but short term, it won't make a noticeable difference
pliant sparrow
^
peak escarp
but the writers said her suit doesn't prevent her from aging, so this is a moot point
lean prawn
aging is also the degeneration of the bodily functions that repair damaged systems, not the death of cells itself
lean prawn
mercy could just simply be assisting those systems or just be using some kind of technology to repair her body in place of those systems
limpid agate
Mercy ages. If she looks younger, its the same reason why Widowmaker, Pharah, Young Ana, Ashe look young.
Without looking it up, how old is Ashe?
If you already know the answer because you're a lore nerd, don't spoil it.
Just guess on appearance
lean prawn
30?
lean prawn
she's got some bags on her eyes and her cheeks are sharp
limpid agate
She is 9 years older than Sombra
And 9 years younger than Moira
Young Ana was also 30-40. She's in the same ballpark
last inlet
It's probably tough to convey age in the usual ways on animated characters without making them seem much older than they actually are
can't just add lines and expect it to always look good
limpid agate
They want the characters to look aesthetically pleasing
I always see people are surprised that people like Pharah, Mei, and Sombra are older than Zarya.
Mei meaning, biologically
Mei was born 40 years ago, but has the body of a 31 year old.
last inlet
I'm p sure all the male chaartcters have the same deal going on, but I see them mentioned less
Though quite a few of them also have hair hiding much of the face
I don't know
manic parcel
Wait what, how old is Zarya?
limpid agate
28
limpid agate
@worthy rose If you have a serious post, post it. If you are going to shitpost, you will be immediately removed without further warning.
So do you want to continue, or are you done here?
manic parcel
One thing I never understood is why Reaper is mad at Mercy.
Isn’t Moira who fucked him up?
peak escarp
he's not mad at Mercy
manic parcel
What really? I thought he hated Mercy
limpid agate
Reaper wants to kill all ex-Overwatch agents who didn't side with him.
manic parcel
Oh
limpid agate
Mercy falls into that category
peak escarp
he doesn't hate her personally
worthy rose
I thought he just wanted to kill them because he was tasked to, and because he was loyal to talon with nobody really being able to stop them except the old overwatch agents
peak escarp
he just wants to kill former Overwatch members
limpid agate
because he was tasked to
Its his own goal
Its a common goal of Talon
Hence the team up
peak escarp
the only people he doesn't seem to hate are his Talon teammates
although he does get annoyed by Sombra
limpid agate
And almost everyone gets annoyed by Sombra.