his origin story showed him making rocks hover (or creating rocks) so we can assume that even in the lore he can control gravity to an extent
#lore-discussion
lament prawn
limpid agate
!!loreHeroes sigma
twilit nacelleBOT
To learn more, please visit https://playoverwatch.com/en-us/heroes/sigma#story
limpid agate
Between his ravings about the patterns of the universe, the psychic damage he sustained, and the gravitic anomalies happening around him, he was deemed unsafe and detained for years under the name "Subject Sigma." Isolated and unable to control his powers
He is at least capable of creating singularities. We also see him manipulating them in his origin short
He also has hyperspheres there
lament prawn
talon is also using him in particular as a weapon, which suggests they need him to be able to do whatever it is he can do, not anyone can wear his suit and replicate his actions - so its safe to assume he's powerful too
limpid agate
So we know those exist, and the boulder/gravity matrix probably exist as well, as they are both just applications of gravitational manipulation
lament prawn
the only ability we're not sure of is his shield, its the only one that doesnt have much to do with gravity aside from him moving the shield by manipulating its gravity
limpid agate
Eh
I wad gonna say gravity only exists on the y axis
But he could just create a singularity to pull it along the X
lament prawn
does he physically touch the rock that he throws?
i cant remember but i dont think he does
limpid agate
No
lament prawn
also something interesting about the shield, he says "back to me" and it materializes, i dont know if that type of thing is specific to him or if its just tech in general
limpid agate
The Shield is the questionable ability
pliant sparrow
He pulls together matter with gravity
Accretion is literally the accumulation of matter
lament prawn
i want to know the extent of his gravity manipulation in the lore
can he just drag down overwatch aircraft with his hand and cause them to crash?
pliant sparrow
I think there’s a range to it
Otherwise talon could just ask him to pull down major buildings across the world all the time
limpid agate
They say Doomfist can do the same
lament prawn
i meant more in the general area
pliant sparrow
Aircraft would likely be out of range unless he’s lifted up by a helicopter
Or other aircraft
lament prawn
i meant the escort type of aircraft that would be in the battlefield somewhere
pliant sparrow
But he could probably do it
lament prawn
think of the drops in retribution/storm rising but overwatch
i dunno why i brought up aircraft, just do major damage in general
pliant sparrow
Even if he couldn’t he could still cause it to fall with accretion
He could cause sinkholes, tear down foundations of buildings, trigger eruptions
There’s a lot he can theoretically do with gravity
lament prawn
i'd imagine for the sake of plot they'd limit his abilities to what he can do in-game, but buff/nerf them as they see fit
probably buff them
pliant sparrow
I think he’s incredibly more powerful than what we get in game
peak escarp
probably, but I don't think Seibren would want to fight him
pliant sparrow
Yeah
lament prawn
we have to take their intelligence into consideration too
we dont know how well sigma has mastered his abilities or if he's stable enough mentally to fight for extended periods of time
pliant sparrow
But his mental state may make him unpredictable
lament prawn
so unpredictable even he cant predict
pliant sparrow
Exactly
lament prawn
we've seen him snap into reality in his in-game idle
which might just give overwatch the distraction they need
i'd imagine that's how things would go down if they decided to include his mental instability in a plot point
pliant sparrow
Sounds like an interesting concept
worthy rose
At what point in time was Sigma recruited, exactly? Why didn't he help at the Overwatch Museum mission?
devout sable
could be years ago. could be weeks ago. we don't know.
worthy rose
Alright thanks. I thought there was an indicator in the timeline.
There's hints of when
We hear Reaper's and Widow's gun's freeing him
So clearly after their recruitment but that's still a broad spectrum
smoky niche
Is widowmaker turning good
peak escarp
no
iron plume
we have no evidence of that
timid eagle
If New Overwatch becomes a thing, I hope Winston won’t repeat the same mistakes that Jack & co. did in the later days of the organization’s history.
worthy rose
that'll only happen if the story moves forwards
instead of being encased in perpetual stasis
iron plume
I don't think it'll reach the same status in the first place
lament prawn
from a writing perspective i dont think they'll repeat the same mistake
peak escarp
what mistakes did Jack make? He was just trying to cover for Reyes
he did what he thought was best
limpid agate
It wasnt just that
There was general corruption in Blackwatch and Overwatch that Jack didn't know about
worthy rose
What's his face from the baptiste story was one of those mistakes
the one that we know outright betrayed OW
peak escarp
you can't really blame Jack for things he didn't know about
except to say that he should have been more diligent
lament prawn
overwatch was disbanded legally
now that they're functioning illegally anyway there's not much standing in their way, though i hope they get their trust and recognition back
peak escarp
they'd have to do something pretty big for that to happen
maybe finally defeating Talon would do it
lament prawn
i hope defeating talon doesnt mark the end of the story, and i also hope defeating talon =/= talon heroes all die
i want it to be more of an ongoing lively universe
granted defeating talon wont be for a long time if it ever happens, i still hope it lives on even after that
peak escarp
yeah
maybe not defeating Talon then
how about just defeating Doomfist (again)
or defeating Reaper
lament prawn
perhaps overwatch will just skip across the world doing what good they can as they work toward defeating talon to the point where they've got most of the public on their side again, leaving the governments with no choice
devout sable
right now I'm just sick of how slow everything is
vale junco
hopefully ow2 gives us a story
worthy rose
I just hope the follow through on their promise of comics
we were promised comics this year and like 8 full months in
and we haven't gotten anything
peak escarp
we weren't promised comics this year
we were promised them "soon"
Blizzard "soon" is a span of 2 years
cobalt oracle
do you guys know if theyre coming out with a movie of any sort?
worthy rose
apparently bad from what wow friends told me
devout sable
I never really watched it, just... vaguely acknowledged its existence when I heard of it
worthy rose
apparently they tried to cram too much into a movie that had a specific audience and tried to make it for everyone
devout sable
if it wasn't profitable, then the chances of an Overwatch movie are low
I mean, even lower than otherwise
worthy rose
It was low because it was poorly managed
They tried to cram apparently too much into one film when apparently it should have been broken down more
Not tried to make it cater to general audiences
were the complaints my friend told me
this is like if you tried to take every event currently in Overwatch with all the current 31 heroes and force them into a movie that's supposed to be like 1-3 hours long
limpid agate
The movie was not bad
But
It was not good
It focused mostly on Warcraft 1
Retconned a few unimportant or unpopular things
Left a lot out
prisma wren
maybe the wrong people were in charge
worthy rose
Truth be told I don't think it'd be a good idea to make OW into a movie series
TV show perhaps but movies would be too hard to do with the amount of characters we have that they're building on
unless they actually planned it MCU style for movies I don't see it working out
prisma wren
there are to many heroes with a different story to cram into 1 movie
devout sable
@worthy rose a movie series, no
but I think they could explore certain events in a movie form
prisma wren
i would be satisfied with animated shorts if they were released more often
limpid agate
Would you be willing to pay to watch them?
lament prawn
personally, absolutely
actually, thats not a bad idea to make them more frequent and give them more profit
but it needs to be wanted/accepted by the public
devout sable
Blizzard needs to start a Patreon for the animated shorts
lament prawn
lmfao that would be the dream
there are too many great events that were just casually told to us in character bio’s and origin stories
i wanna see them take place in proper animated cinematic glory
frosty shell
The trouble with the OW movie is how do cram all those characters in?
limpid agate
You dont
night warren
Overwatch. Overwatch 2: Return of Overwatch. Overwatch 3: Talon Strikes Back. Overwatch 4: Rise of the Omnics.
and so on
zenith prawn
Overwatch 2: Electric Boogaloo
worthy rose
Or a animated tv show
frosty shell
The trouble is doing a movie in the style of the cinematics would be pretty expensive and time-consuming
But A TV show in the cinematic style also would be hard to pull off
worthy rose
warm plaza
teal meadow
i think they should stick to the comics since they're less expensive
spiral yarrow
I like comics ands animations, just not when they take years to make
lilac pecan
What was the last comic we got?
worthy rose
It was the Retribution comic, which was set years before the beginning of Overwatch
The last comic that properly developed the story in modern times was the Zarya and Sombra comic
torn perch
blazing comet
Duck comics, make a movie or Overwatch 2
fossil isle
Id want a tv series of OW doe
dusty basalt
hopefully it wouldnt be as bad as those awful netflix series
limpid agate
There is good and bad on Netflix.
limpid agate
!!shitposting
twilit nacelleBOT
Shitposting will result in a loss of access.
ivory fulcrum
Wasnt a shitpost but I forgot the ow community
iron plume
Unfortunately that post reminded me about the ow community
limpid agate
Serious discussion strictly related to the lore of Overwatch.
fringe blade
Honestly, I feel like the lore team HAS to be working on something big lore-wise.
If they weren't, I don't see why they wouldn't release comics.
The lore and the gameplay departments seem to be completely different
peak escarp
it would be nice to know the reason behind the delay
lament prawn
specifically to work on overwatch
fringe blade
And the lore team is being paid their salaries anyways
peak escarp
they have been saying "soon" for longer than it would take to make the comics
fringe blade
So I don't see there being ANY reason for there to not be comics released
lament prawn
ive been thinking of that the other day, that they must have been doing something and cant be going to work 5 days a week while we get nothing, but then i thought ehh maybe writing backstories for new heroes takes longer than i expected
fringe blade
So I am almost sure they are working on something big, something which requires all of the writers' attention
lament prawn
but no they have to be working on something big
fringe blade
I am pretty sure the biggest 'idea' that people have been having is the supposed Overwatch 2
lament prawn
theres so much supporting that rumor that ive taken it as confirmation at this point
probably bad habit
fringe blade
I usually don't confirm anything for myself just to not be dissapointed
Because the idea of a new, PVE based Overwatch game on a new engine is comforting.
Especially with all the potential lore they could release with the game.
lament prawn
not only have i taken it as confirmation, but ive hyped myself up thinking of what the game might feature
for all we know it could be a slightly upgraded archives
although very unlikely considering it’d be a whole new game
fringe blade
There have been so many amazing fan creations
lament prawn
with the release of that game, i hope it creates a sort of split in the community between those that are there to appreciate the universe/characters/art style and the toxicity
its the community that keeps the franchise going and at this rate i feel like they’ll drag it down and force it to end before its time
harsh whale
hey**
stark plaza
why is did baptise work with talon
peak escarp
because he needed the money and wanted to feel useful
worthy rose
Also Talon wasn't known as an evil terrorist organization at the time
It was the boiling frog scenario for him and when he realized, he dipped
celest ruin
Pretty sure Talon was always evil, but not necessarily the part he worked with
lament prawn
his origin story explains it pretty well
peak escarp
Talon wasn't known as a terrorist group when he joined
he just knew it as a mercenary company who was hiring people with his sort of skillset
worthy rose
No Talon was always evil
it just wasn't well known at that point
The history of Talon itself is actually pretty obscure
like we have known members but we don't know much about the story or origin itself
worthy rose
If Torbjorn makes armor and protection and stuff, why does he have so many children? 
His protection must have been non-existent in bed
peak escarp
😒
tawny patio
I snorted ngl
peak escarp
we don't know how many kids Torbjorn has, only that he has a lot of grandkids
pliant sparrow
Does he have another child apart from Brigitte then?
peak escarp
yes
Brigitte is listed as his youngest child, which implies he has others
and none of the grandkids seen in Reflections are Brigitte's kids
pliant sparrow
Any names been given?
pliant sparrow
So his family could be pretty extensive
peak escarp
probably
foggy notch
Ive seen brig calls rein her godfather
ember wave
.
charred pasture
basically
scarlet orbit
torb is actually genjis dad
devout sable
!!shitposting @scarlet orbit
twilit nacelleBOT
@scarlet orbit Shitposting will result in a loss of access.
scarlet orbit
To annoy the enemy team as much as possible in my experience
peak escarp
Hammond doesn't work for anyone currently
he's exploring the world, looking for adventures
lament prawn
he's just exploring and looking for adventure, he's 14 and spent almost all his life on the moon indoors so
peak escarp
Now free to travel and do as he pleases, Hammond is exploring the world and finding new adventures along the way.
he might look up Winston at some point, but that's just a guess
lament prawn
yeah there's a big chance for a reunion at some point
vernal wasp
whats the backstory on dva besides her being a gamer and being in meka and her parents dying
devout sable
@lament prawn actually spent most of his life in Junkertown
Winston arrived on Earth at least 9-10 years ago
lament prawn
oh, right yeah
peak escarp
D.Va doesn't have that much backstory
she's only 19
she was a world champion at Mecha Guardian V and the Korean Army recruited her for her quick reactions and high APM
pliant sparrow
Her apm is super human
peak escarp
her defense matrix is her deleting incoming projectiles one by one very quickly
she needs godly APM
lament prawn
deleting
last inlet
it's the best terminology for what happens, besides just shooting down
lament prawn
yeah i wasnt trying to correct her
pliant sparrow
Pretty sure her fingers would break if she moved them that fast deleting something like a bastion spray
peak escarp
there is a bit of suspension of disbelief required
lament prawn
^ youll be questioning a lot of stuff if you cant do that
and we've only seen her delete missiles lore-wise
peak escarp
if you watch her hands when you use defense matrix in the game, you can see her doing it
hushed lily
Does Lucio even have lore? Other than he stole his technology from his father or whatever.
peak escarp
he became famous for leading a rebellion against Vishkar, and used that to launch his international DJ career
vernal wasp
does sombra have a lore besides from being the best hacker in the world
peak escarp
she was orphaned by the crisis
rolled with Los Muertos for a bit
is good friends with Baptiste
lament prawn
is after a mysterious conspiracy
worthy rose
Knows of Alejandra's family
peak escarp
Alejandra knows her name somehow
zenith prawn
Baptiste has an encrypted direct line to her for some reason.
vernal wasp
nani
worthy rose
Cause they're friends
what confuses me is the fact that Talon has a close eye on Bap but it confuses me that they do Cause I'd imagine Bap would have asked her to help him vanish from the grid
peak escarp
he left Talon 4 years ago
and this is the first time they've found him
I think Talon wasn't able to find him before this (maybe due to Sombra's interference?)
molten arrow
Sry I deleted my name but hi
cobalt oracle
So are Sym and lucio enemies or something
peak escarp
Symmetra works for the company that Lucio is enemies with
Symmetra desires order and control
Lucio wants freedom
last inlet
But have they met in canon? I don't think so
If they did, they'd most likely be at odds, yes
cobalt oracle
now thats something i wanna see
peak escarp
same
cobalt oracle
is there a lot of sym or lucio lore
cobalt oracle
like ik she made that hard light company
cobalt oracle
ah okay
peak escarp
she is their star architech though
peak escarp
she isn't involved with Overwatch (the organization) yet
cobalt oracle
ooooooo
peak escarp
but her boss, Sanjay Korpal, is a Talon council member
so that's how she's connected to the story
peak escarp
maybe
cobalt oracle
moiras lore is the coolest tbh
she was involved with everyone and literally created reaper
peak escarp
she does have her hands on a lot of things
cobalt oracle
yeah like she was in overwatch but then she moved to blackwatch and she was there at the venice incident and theres some suspicion that she actually wanted gabriel to kill that man (forgot his name) and then she joins talon
i really hope theres a thing between her and angela where like moira got some of her healing tech from her idk
last inlet
When she first came out, there was a kind of big thing of contrasting her with Mercy
At the least, there's the combo spray they have
peak escarp
Angela's theories were published in scientific journals
Moira definitely copied some of it
clever tapir
devout sable
@limpid agate remember when we've talked about fixing Searching? what if Zarya started her search in Dorado, only for that to turn into a clue hunt?
she'd still meet Portero there, and Alejandra, and possibly learn Sombra's name
and it's during that clue hunt that Zarya would hit a dead end, prompting Volskaya to arrange her teamup with Lynx
and then she'd eventually encounter Sombra in a completely different location, far away from Dorado
but otherwise, the core structure of the story would be more or less the same
tepid abyss
Is junkrats 2nd name a guy fawkes reference?
peak escarp
yes
tepid abyss
Pretty cool, do other heroes have similar Easter eggs?
limpid agate
@devout sable Hmmm... That sounds like it would have been better and made more sense.
quaint wyvern
what shoe size would sigma have?
urban sedge
I mean... OW wiki says he's 2.46 which is utterly ridiculous
But let's assume that
Tallest man alive was 2.34 and he wore a size 24
dense estuary
urban sedge
Yeah I had to look like... thrice. I have no idea why OW wiki put this height. It's certainly wrong
Actually, they're probably taking into account the fact he's floating
So when he's floating he's 2.46m
peak escarp
he's definitely not that tall standing
I'd guess he's around 6'something
(the Fandom wiki is unreliable and doesn't source everything; use the Gamepedia wiki instead)
zenith prawn
Maybe he has kyphosis or back problems.
pliant sparrow
So tallest guy ever was just shy of 9 feet and sigma is apparently above that?
iron plume
doesn't source everything
more like doesn't source anything
peak escarp
@pliant sparrow Sigma is also floating 1-2 feet off the ground
so subtract at least 1 foot from whatever height they guessed
foggy notch
The heights are ridiculous all of them
No reason to keep searching for them
Onky compare ow with ow heros
Not with real life
Cause they dont make any sense
iron plume
the rest of them are fairly sensible
they're taller on average that a similar group of "normal people" would be
but that's part of the more-than-human thing as a superhero-ish narrative
they're not ridiculously big
frosty shell
That Searching one makes some sense @devout sable
frosty shell
It would fix the main problem of the story beats not being justified
urban sedge
@peak escarp Ah thanks. I couldn't find his height anywhere else
iron plume
rein is in armor, Junk is well within normal human height range, sigma's "7 feet" include the distance off the ground floating
urban sedge
So maybe 6 feet
foggy notch
Yea whatever no point in arguing ure right
iron plume
ure right
good that we're clear on the important part
peak escarp
tall people
iron plume
yeah even like 2.00 would be not that rare for dutch
urban sedge
Yeah and I stand here with my feckin 1.60 >: (
urban sedge
;_;
peak escarp
I'm a whopping 1.49m
peak escarp
I'm tiny
urban sedge
High five
peak escarp
we only have official heights for launch heroes
they were listed on the reference kits
foggy notch
@urban sedgealso u could be close to Dva
urban sedge
Rein with or without armour?
pliant sparrow
None of the heights for any hero are unrealistic
Reinhardt is big sure but that was probably a requirement for being a crusader, there weren’t many of them
peak escarp
they'd have to big/strong to wear that power armor
peak escarp
we dont know how many Crusaders there were
was Balderich's squad all of them, or were there more?
last inlet
Part of the German military, so they must have been numerous
devout sable
funny, the idea of more Crusaders than the four we've seen in Honor and Glory never occurred to me
last inlet
To be fair, they're not all that prominent
I don't think they're active in the present time
devout sable
and frankly, I don't think there were many more than these four? otherwise Reinhardt wouldn't have become known as "the last Crusader", and wouldn't have necessarily been the go-to choice for Balderich's replacement in the Overwatch strike team
if there were other units, then another unit's leader would've been the go-to candidate
peak escarp
Balderich gave his token to Reinhardt
devout sable
hm
peak escarp
I assume that was the literal invite
devout sable
I just don't see the Crusaders as having more than, I dunno, 5-12 members?
peak escarp
sure, it was probably an elite special unit
last inlet
I don't know how they could have less, unless Germany wasn't really getting hit by the omnics
As far as I know, they were an elite unit to help out the regular military
last inlet
Maybe
As far as him being the Last Crusader, it's probably because he's the only one still going around with the armor on
pliant sparrow
^
Also the other crusader leaders may have been invited but declined/died before they could accept
Or germany could have just been stingy with crusaders
last inlet
They really only invited Balderich
And there wasn't anyone else he could pass the invite to
Plus he could've always told Reinhardt "give it to one of the other guys"
pliant sparrow
True
last inlet
He trusted Rein enough to send him in his stead
peak escarp
Overwatch didnt have to accept Reinhardt
they could have said "we wanted Balderich, you're not him"
he probably gave a passionate speech about honor
steady gazelle
Isn't Reinhardt like the last crusader?
peak escarp
but we dont know if he was the last after the Battle of Eichenwalde
others could have survived
devout sable
They may have been an elite crusader unit
I feel like the Crusaders themselves were the elite unit
frosty shell
Yeah I imagine making any more than 100-200 of those suits would've been way too expensive
Especially for something which wouldn't have been that much less effective than conventional weaponry
devout sable
100-200 already sounds excessive
stark notch
foggy notch
Take a look at winston's cinematic when he makes the call
There r so many unfamiliar pictures
peak escarp
some of those will be playable heroes
some are just filler
plus there will be many more heroes not associated with Overwatch
worthy rose
Some of the heroes shown at the end of Recall might have been killed by Reaper
Since in Masquerade he said he already killed a certain amount of former Overwatch agents
limpid agate
There are currently 31 heroes, with 4 more confirmed in development, so the lowest number is 35. The highest number is unknown. We don't know their goal.
lament prawn
any chance we'd get a short before blizzcon or is that the only plausible date now?
sharp skiff
Im Not Sure... :/
worthy rose
Some here were speculating that they'll unveil one at the OWL Grand Finals on September 29.
timber lotus
peak escarp
its always possible
peak escarp
stop spamming
acoustic grail
is mei a boy??
peak escarp
no
toxic fog
is sigma trans-non asexual
peak escarp
!!shitposting @toxic fog
twilit nacelleBOT
@toxic fog Shitposting will result in a loss of access.
proper crater
:ARCADE:
foggy notch
Lol
peak escarp
!!loreonly
twilit nacelleBOT
This channel is for serious discussion strictly related to the lore of Overwatch. Shitposting will result in a loss of access.
urban sedge
Can I just ask
Why the hell is Sigma’s name Siebren
I mean I’ve been researching a little and I find no references
It apparently means “he who was victorious over a bear” or something
iron plume
I don't think it's that deep
it's just a fittingly dutch-sounding but not too common name
Kuiper is the interesting part, since it references the Kuiper belt
urban sedge
Yes I love that reference ❤
I was searching something to use as a battle tag for an alt
devout sable
his real name feels very forgettable to me for some reason
iron plume
a lot of them are to me
devout sable
hm, I can instantly name most of the major heroes
lament prawn
names like lena oxton, angela ziegler, hana song are just simpler and more iconic to me for some reason
limpid agate
Why the hell is Sigma’s name Siebren
Why is Tracer's name Lena
Why is McCree's name Jesse
iron plume
Why is your name... your name
...Or is it?
jake chudnow playing
limpid agate
Why is Moira's name Moira
iron plume
oh yeah I keep forgetting about jesse
limpid agate
They're mostly just names
devout sable
hmmm...
Jack Morrison, Gabriel Reyes, Ana Amari, Reinhardt Wilhelm, Torbjorn Lindholm, Fareeha Amari, Lena Oxton, Angela Ziegler, Jesse McCree, Hanzo Shimada, Genji Shimada, Akande Ogundimu, Moira O'Deorain Amelie Lacroix, Olivia Colomar
limpid agate
And yes I know Jesse is named after a real person
devout sable
yep, got most of these memorized
devout sable
but with Sigma it's like...
iron plume
Lacroix
devout sable
"something de Kuiper"?
limpid agate
Same with Torbjorn
iron plume
well he is new
peak escarp
Seibren de Kuiper sounds like a scientist's name
iron plume
Elizabeth Caledonia "Calamity" Ashe
hushed lily
I just realized mercy is named angela cuz she's based around an angel
peak escarp
how about Satya Vaswani
hushed lily
Big brain moments
peak escarp
or Aleksandra Zaryanova
limpid agate
You are also missing Lucio Correia dos Santos, Aleksandra Zaryanova, Mako Rutledge, Jamison Fawkes
devout sable
yeah, these are a bit more... obscure, I guess
I think the hardest to remember out of those are Ashe and Lucio
peak escarp
SST Laboratories Siege Automaton E54
peak escarp
I had to look it up to get the proper wording
I knew it was SST Laboratories something E54
limpid agate
Jean-Baptiste Augustin, Satya Vaswani, Brigitte Lindholm, too many heroes, I'm forgetting what characters are left
peak escarp
Orisa even calls it that in one interaction
devout sable
yep
limpid agate
Also for Bastion, it's pretty easy to remember
peak escarp
limpid agate
He is a siege automaton
So add the make and model
What I mix up is SST Laboratories E54 Siege Automaton
peak escarp
makes me wonder what Zenyatta's make and model are
devout sable
Symmetra, Roadhog and Junkrat's names I'd be able to tell you when asked, but they didn't spring to my mind when I was making the list of examples
peak escarp
Tekhartha is his title
limpid agate
Yes
iron plume
Jean-Baptiste Augustin
peak escarp
and he probably didn't roll out of the omnium with the name Zenyatta
limpid agate
No
devout sable
I'd probably misspell that as something like 'Terkhatta'
iron plume
if we're doing Tekharta, we're doing Dr. Angela Ziegler, M.D. Ph.D
limpid agate
Not necessarily
peak escarp
and Dr. O'Deorain, and Dr. de Kuiper, and Dr. Zhao
limpid agate
I imagine Tekhartha is more similar to the real life Tenzin
limpid agate
Zhou Mei-Ling
peak escarp
Tekhartha comes from a combination of Siddhartha (birth name of Buddha) and "tech"
limpid agate
Don't know
peak escarp
Dae-Hyun Park
peak escarp
the most stereotypical Korean name
limpid agate
I forgot all of MEKAs names
limpid agate
D.Mon, Casino, Overlord, King is what I remember
devout sable
oh
limpid agate
!!wiki MEKA
twilit nacelleBOT
For more information about the game, please refer to the wiki: https://overwatch.gamepedia.com/MEKA
limpid agate
Casino (Jae-eun Kwon)
D.Mon (Yuna Lee)
D.Va (Hana Song)
King (Kyung-soo Hann)
Overlord (Seung-hwa Shi)
oh, Hana Song is another one in that "could only tell you when asked" category, along with Sym and Junkers
I think
Idk
limpid agate
I thought you said her
devout sable
nope
peak escarp
Hana is one of the names that does have a slightly deeper meaning
it means "one", as in "number one player in Korea"
devout sable
then again, Sym, D.va, and Junkers are disconnected from the 'main' story in general
so maybe that's why I didn't think of them
limpid agate
Junkrat's surname is also meaningful
As is Sigma's
They are the same surnames as other more famous people in their line of work
peak escarp
did anyone mention Reinhardt Wilhelm?
I think a lot of people assume Reinhardt is his last name
limpid agate
It's because he has two first names
devout sable
it is easy to mix up the order tho
devout sable
he could easily be Wilhelm Reinhardt
limpid agate
Because Reinhardt isn't a common first name in America
peak escarp
how about some obscure character names, like Efi Oladele and Gabrielle Adawe
devout sable
lore characters, but still memorable
peak escarp
or Guillermo Portero
limpid agate
Ingrid Lindholm
peak escarp
I always have trouble pronouncing Guillermo
devout sable
what's wrong with it?
lament prawn
i think its meant to be that pretty but hidden name, and it worked for me
white cobalt
Personally, isn't very a common name or anything "screams" mexico
Guillermo Portero and Gabriel Reyes are pretty common latino names
But in case of Olivia Colomar the surname is rare
Colomar sounds more a catalan or spanish surname
worthy rose
Reyes in particular is a very common latino name
Funnily enough he was born in Los Angeles, which has a high hispanic population
I don't think that was a coincidence nor was it the fact that they gave him that skin tone in every showing of him thus far
white cobalt
i think many players thought he was mexican at first
devout sable
except as Reaper 😅
white cobalt
because the charro suit
worthy rose
This is why you read the damn bio
also yea; Reaper's skin tone compared to what it was when he was gabriel is very drastically different
I literally never even mentioned it was a coincidence...
it's so pale and literal white
peak escarp
he's corpselike
elfin tendon
Question about Orisa and Or-15, someone told me Halt is unique to Orisa and was added to her to defeat doomfist but in the rein Short, An Or-15 stops rein's charge in a way that looks to represent Halt, can someone explain which of these is wrong
lament prawn
the OR-15 defense bots shown in her origin trailer and as a skin for her arent the same ones that attacked rein, at least not visually
worthy rose
The bots that Reinhardt and the crusaders were fighting were the predecessor to Orisa. When it stopped Rein's charge, it could be explained as "Fortify" or like an older version of the ability. Halt by the way is the green orb which the older model did not have
elfin tendon
lol yh I meant fortify not halt
but why would the defence bots made years after the ones that attacked rein be worse?
also I thought Orisa was specifically made from the remains of the bots Doom destroyed
so how would she get fortify from a different model
peak escarp
the model that attacked Rein during the omnic crisis was the OR14
the OR15s in Numbani probably had the same ability, but maybe it didn't work against Doomfist
devout sable
@elfin tendon Fortify is the ability you're referring too, not Halt
and yeah, the OR14 models had it
OR15s may have had those, but if they did, for some reason that didn't help them against Doomfist
Halt, however, is 100% exclusive to Orisa
since it's Efi who added a Tobelstein reactor to the design
(which also happens to be what Zarya uses btw)
elfin tendon
yh everyone stealing from Zarya, but what I was wondering was why the OR15s got creamed by Doom when they should have a fortify like "ability" since it stopped rein charge and charge is roughly equal to doom punch
the answer seems to be abilities in the game and feats in the cinematics and lore don't correlate equally
:/ idk
dry portal
Well there’s a few answers for that
How do we know the standard or15’s even and fortify
Maybe Efi just modified Oriss to do that
peak escarp
many abilities are stronger/weaker than they are in the game
mostly for the sake of game balance
also the Tobelstein reactor doesn't "belong" to Zarya - it's a feature of her weapon (and of other weapons like it)
karmic garden
yeah like do we know for a fact that Rein's charge and Doomfist's punch are the same power level? I thought that was also for the sake of game balance, and was completely different in the lore (i.e. the first Overwatch cinematic having the kid use an even lesser version and sending a massive shockwave all throughout the building)
peak escarp
in the lore, Doomfist's punch is supposed to be incredibly powerful
able to demolish buildings ("level skyscrapers"), according to rumor
I doubt Reinhardt's charge is that strong
karmic garden
right, so I doubt fortify would stand any chance against DF in the lore, regardless of what model OR he was going up against
probably the simplest answer to your question @elfin tendon
limpid agate
Orisa's durability is currently unknown
We know that Doomfist trashed the OR15s in the airport with the gauntlet
And Orisa is an upgraded OR15
We have also seen her effortlessly stop a speeding car with 1 hand.
So that makes her at least more durable than, say, an airport wall
Which Doomfist cratered with projectiles. Projectiles being multi-ton omnics he punched into them
So for what would happen if the two were to fight, we don't know
His strength is inconsistent
He can crater streets and thrash OR15s
But doesn't win fist to fist against Winston.
karmic garden
wish they had a bit more consistency on that regard, or at least some decent reasoning why thats possible
peak escarp
he cratered the wall and defeated the OR15s without the gauntlet
karmic garden
where is that mentioned
karmic garden
I meant what Six said, about DF not having the gauntlet during that fight
peak escarp
After escaping from the facility, Helix lost track of Ogundimu until he resurfaced in Numbani, where he clashed with the newly introduced OR15 defense robots at the Adawe International Terminal, easily destroying them and reclaiming the Doomfist.
karmic garden
oh woww
peak escarp
this article says he attacked the airport on the way to get the gauntlet
not after
limpid agate
According to the trailer
He stole the gauntlet first
And that part was not a gameplay preview
That was the short story component at the start we've seen since Orisa
peak escarp
that could have been them not wanting to make a gauntlet-less character model
peak escarp
how does it not specify the order?
limpid agate
I provided a link to the trailer as well as my response.
Is this statement accurate?
If so, is the order accurate?
peak escarp
no reason to think it isn't
limpid agate
I posted the reason to think it isn't
peak escarp
okay, then there's no definitive answer
karmic garden
It might be a mistake on the behalf of the content creators, but they wouldn't have made the statement in the way they did for no reason
peak escarp
one source says it was before, another source says it was after
karmic garden
exactly
limpid agate
But which one made the mistake then. The blog, or the trailer?
For another post release inconsistency
Look at Brig
In her trailer, she joins Overwatch with Rein
peak escarp
I think the article is a more reliable source, since it's not bound by the restriction of the game model
limpid agate
In every other part of her character, she says joining Overwatch is a bad idea
So which is accurate
peak escarp
in her origin trailer she implies following him wherever he chooses to go
her voice interactions imply the same
limpid agate
All the bio states is that he defeated the OR15s and reclaimed the gauntlet, not necessarily in that order.
peak escarp
I don't think the gameplay trailers are very reliable for lore
Baptiste's says "no second chances", yet his character is all about second chances
limpid agate
Agent after agent came for him, including Baptiste's former comrades. To stay under the radar, Baptiste drifted from place to place, aiding in humanitarian efforts around the globe.
Speaking of Baptiste
Which is the accurate order
It's not necessarily linear
We can assume they are until shown otherwise
lament prawn
they have the scene of the crime in the map, and an OR-15 skin for orisa, it was just too perfect for them to not have that battle scene in there
and just like how they never really make dedicated animations for the trailers, they probably wouldnt alter models either
i mean, they can mirror his other hand model-wise, but it wouldnt be rigged or animated without extra effort
i highly doubt we're expected to think thats exactly how the battle happened scene by scene
if there's a lore source elsewhere, i'd lean toward that
devout sable
@peak escarp I don't think Doomfist even could defeat the OR15s without the gauntlet
devout sable
what I think is that even if he did only reclaim the Doomfist after defeating the OR15 units, he might've used some other gauntlet in the meantime
we already know that other models are a thing, what with his Talon skin being canon
peak escarp
McCree's cybernetic arm could bend metal with ease, and his isn't even top of the line
zenith prawn
What’s the deal with Talon skins if the default skins are the canonical skins?
peak escarp
Doomfist's Talon skin is what he wore when he was apprenticed to the previous Doomfist
Baptiste's was his Talon uniform
we don't know if Sombra or Sigma's Talon skins are canon
Widowmaker's is also questionable
zenith prawn
Like, does Widowmaker have to wear flesh covered body paint for her Talon skin?
wise matrix
i mean they did send her back after brainwashing her so maybe that skin could be mid transformation?
zenith prawn
TALON UNIFORM MANUAL
Section 2: Uniform Regulations
2.2.4 Skin must be of a flesh-colored tone.
peak escarp
her Talon skin represents her early in her conditioning
before her skin had gone purple
wise matrix
so they brainwashed her first then slowed her heart down or was it all one process?
peak escarp
first they programmed her into a sleeper agent to kill her husband
then she went back (or was taken back) and they mentally and physically conditioned her to be the perfect sniper
which involved slowing her pulse, resulting in blue skin
I imagine the process wasn't immediate
devout sable
@peak escarp hmm, Sigma's Talon skin does sorta feel canon
but maybe it's not
I feel like it mostly depends on how recently he was pulled out of the detention facility
Talon got really lax in their uniform rules over the last few years, smh
and so did Overwatch after King's Row Uprising
wise matrix
well at least we know the classic uniforms are cannon before storm rising
turbid flicker
im in school
prisma wren
cool
peak escarp
!!loreonly
twilit nacelleBOT
This channel is for serious discussion strictly related to the lore of Overwatch. Shitposting will result in a loss of access.
worthy rose
give zenyatta lore
peak escarp
why?
lucid sapphire
he has some lore
near umbra
do u guys think zenytta ever gonna meet hanzo
mellow forum
@near umbra I can't think of a reason why they would cross paths
But I'm not 100% clued up on the lore
near umbra
well because hazno wandering ight
genji was looking to find himself
zen helped genji accept himself
so like zen could like help hazno forgive himself
peak escarp
that's a possibility
Genji did tell Hanzo to choose a side; if he ends up siding with Overwatch, he could end up meeting Zenyatta if Genji brings Zenyatta to Overwatch as well
near umbra
or just when hazo wandering he comes past him
then he PASSES INTO THE IRIS
jk but yeah it would be coo
worthy rose
I want the story's progression to affect the characters themselves
so maybe once widowmaker becomes normal
she'll be different
the only problem is voice actors
but blizzard is blizzard for a reason
lament prawn
the "thanks" and "hello!" voice lines for widow aready sound a bit off to me lol
because i feel like both scenarios would be just a glare from her
peak escarp
she has to have something audible
lament prawn
oh yea of course
they pulled it off well
but say, in a short, i see it looking a bit different
limpid agate
so maybe once widowmaker becomes normal
peak escarp
she's all about the mission, no chit-chat
limpid agate
I don't see this ever happening
worthy rose
The effects of brainwash don't just randomly disappear...
Plus Blizzard wouldn't change a character's personality so drastically
peak escarp
we don't know if her conditioning is even undoable
even if it is, current Overwatch doesn't have the resources for it
worthy rose
Given how it's just a ragtag team of not even 10 people, several of which know nothing of this topic, They don't. And good luck actually getting to Widowmaker in the first place
peak escarp
maybe endgame, sure she might be redeemed, but we probably won't ever get to that
worthy rose
the endgame is like
years down the line
probably over a decade away at the current pace of the game assuming it'll be relevant during that time
fossil kindle
Whens an overwatch movie coming?
peak escarp
probably not for a long time
limpid agate
If she gets redeemed, it won't be from undoing her conditioning
I feel that would be a detriment to her character
She isn't Bucky. She isn't a mindless puppet obeying some Hydra Talon brainwashing
She's been conditioned to be obedient with her emotions suppressed, and to gain pleasure from killing things
If you want to give her a redemption arc, making it an undo button is lame
Find a solution that fits within her parameters. Assuming she needs one at all
Which she doesn't
worthy rose
She doesn't need to redeem herself for anything in the first place
She is a victim, it's not her fault if she married one of Talon's top priority targets
she did kill a lot of people
last inlet
And it can be argued that she did that knowingly
lament prawn
widowmaker did
cursive cipher
A lot of important people
worthy rose
She has blood on her hands, but she did it only after she was brainwashed
lament prawn
og amelie wouldnt dream of it
cursive cipher
Hmh
cursive cipher
That’s what happened though,
peak escarp
we know Widow has both her memories and freedom to act outside of Talon
the word "brainwashed" doesn't appear in her bio
cursive cipher
I guess
lament prawn
i think if she ever gets a redemption arc, it will at most be her slowly coming to her senses and disappearing from talon for a while, and then just running around as a vigilante going after talon
but never willingly showing her face to overwatch
worthy rose
She was literally "reprogrammed"
Call it however you want, she very clearly was shattered mentally after being abducted
last inlet
Okay. Still doesn't mean brainwashed
lament prawn
we're not saying it does
worthy rose
Since they supressed her personality and shattered her mentally, it must have taken a considerable amount of time
peak escarp
Two weeks later she killed Gérard in his sleep.
Her mission complete, Amélie returned to Talon, and they completed the process of turning her into a living weapon. She was given extensive training in the covert arts, and then her physiology was altered, drastically slowing her heart, which turned her skin cold and blue and numbed her ability to experience human emotion. Amélie was gone.```doesn't say how long the conditioning took
worthy rose
Reprogramming*
limpid agate
She was conditioned, not brainwashed
There is a huge difference
This isn't semantics, they are two entirely separate things
peak escarp
but Gerard seems to have been killed 7 years ago (around the time of Uprising), and Widowmaker first appears 6 years ago (just before she 'kills' Ana)
so at most it took a year
give or take a few months
worthy rose
There most certainly isn't a huge difference between mental conditioning and brainwashing....
limpid agate
Pavlovian Conditioning is not brainwashing
lament prawn
considering she was a fully functioning adult beforehand, it must have taken quite drastic measures
for that time span
peak escarp
she's still s fully functioning adult
limpid agate
If I numb your senses, then give you a shot of dopamine every time you kill someone
You've been conditioned to enjoy killing
peak escarp
I don't see what you mean
worthy rose
Ok, and? His conditioning doesn't involve suppressing someone's personality and literally reprogramming their mind
lament prawn
yes but the process of getting her to be in that state mentally
i know what the end result does
limpid agate
Who said her personality was suppressed
worthy rose
A brainwashed person can still be a fully-functioning adult...
lament prawn
by that i meant she wasnt at a young impressionable age, she was at an age where people normally are set in their core values and beliefs, so the conditioning must have been hardcore
limpid agate
That's not brainwashing
peak escarp
we know that Widowmaker has a life outside of Talon - she bought a house and is in the process of remodeling it, she visits her husband's grave, she spends time at Luna Cabaret
worthy rose
Being brainwashed doesn't mean you can't have hobbies...
peak escarp
and at least the grave visits are unaccompanied
limpid agate
She was numbed, is obedient, and feels alive from killing
She is no more brainwashed than an attack dog
worthy rose
That's an absurd comparison
An attack dog did not have their will broken...
And you are starting from the assumption that mind conditioning and brainwashing are two different things, which they are not
lament prawn
widowmaker is also a sentient human
worthy rose
Being brainwashed doesn't mean that you turn into a robot
limpid agate
Dogs are also sentient
lament prawn
their brains are nowhere near as complex as humans
limpid agate
The important distinction is
Brainwashing = Against your will
Conditioning = Independently willingly
last inlet
Just because we're more intelligent doesn't mean dogs have no intelligence
limpid agate
Widowmaker actively chooses to do everything
lament prawn
ok but compare training a dog to do something to training a human to do so, with only one of those two fully understanding the consequences of their actions
peak escarp
a dog understands that if he attacks who he's told to attack he gets rewarded
worthy rose
Brainwashing doesn't necessarily mean that you are doing things against your will
last inlet
It's a serviceable comparison for what he's saying
peak escarp
or more likely, he doesn't get punished
last inlet
I mean, yes it does
worthy rose
It can just mean that your ability to think independently was reduced drastically
Brainwash by itself is a broad term that can be used to describe several techniques which are meant to alter soemone's mind
limpid agate
It can just mean that your ability to think independently was reduced drastically
Which is not the case for Widow
worthy rose
Using "neural conditioning" instead of "brainwashing" doesn't mean it's not brainwashing
Considering how her emotions were supressed, Yes, that is the case
Emotions are a major factor in the independent thought of a human
You can't rob someone of love, affection, or mercy, and then pretend that they can still think independently to the full of their capabilities
limpid agate
And the lack of emotions doesn't mean reduced independent capabilities
It means different
last inlet
She has emotions
worthy rose
No... if you were forcefully emotionless, you can no longer think like you once did...
last inlet
She's not emotionless
limpid agate
Suppressed also doesn't mean gone
worthy rose
Neither does brainwashing
limpid agate
She has shown affection and mercy too
worthy rose
Someone who is brainwashed can still show emotions because, as I already said, brainwash is a broad term that can refer to a lot of instances
last inlet
Then you're using it too broadly, I'd say
worthy rose
Brainwash does not and never necessarily meant literal mind-control like a zombie
limpid agate
Stretch a word too thin and it becomes meaningless
Such as literally
Which means both itself as well as its antonym
worthy rose
Except for the part that it's not stretched
The fact that the word "neural conditioning" was used never meant that she was not brainwashed
limpid agate
How do you define it
worthy rose
I don't have to define it, it's already defined
limpid agate
Okay. So if you won't define it because it's already defined, I can safely say that you are wrong because your explanation is against the definition
worthy rose
It was never against the definition..........
"Brainwashing (also known as mind control, menticide, coercive persuasion, thought control, thought reform, and re-education) is the concept that the human mind can be altered or controlled by certain psychological techniques. "
limpid agate
With that definition
Throwing rock 9 times in a game of rock paper scissors is brainwashing
worthy rose
Hence why I said several times that it was a broad term...
limpid agate
Which is where the word becomes meaningless
What I said 5 minutes ago qualifies as history
But no one uses the word history to refer to what happened 5 minutes ago
worthy rose
Because that's not what history is....
limpid agate
Exactly
worthy rose
History is the past as recorded and described in documents, it's not literally the past
limpid agate
And playing rock 9 times is not brainwashing
History is the past as recorded and described in documents, it's not literally the past
worthy rose
Yes, so your example was inappropriate
limpid agate
Is Discord chat not a recorded document
worthy rose
No it's not, a chat of discord is not an official written document
limpid agate
But it is. It is a primary source for the history of the user known as Jewvia.
lament prawn
this argument went from brainwashing and conditioning meaning completely different things to brainwashing being too broad a term (which is no fault of either of you, but broad terms do still serve a purpose) and now idk whats going on
worthy rose
Also, it is wrong that many people wouldn't refer to that as history
Since it is often common for someone to say something like "Oh, we were friends two weeks ago, but it's been a long time. Our past friendship is history."
limpid agate
That's a synonym and therefore irrelevant
worthy rose
@lament prawn The point originally was about Widowmaker not being responsible for anything, before there started being a semantic argument based on a false assumption
limpid agate
Widowmaker is said and shown to be conditioned. Ultimately, she is conditioned.
last inlet
But her condition doesn't mean brainwashing
worthy rose
No, brainwashing just means her mind was altered, which is what happened to her
lament prawn
yes but i have a feeling most anyone would have collapsed under that conditioning, so the blame is on talon
last inlet
Conditioning would mean she may be responsible
worthy rose
This is the false assumption, assuming that neural conditioning and brainwash are different, when they are not by definition.
limpid agate
The word brainwashed is never used, and the definition of the word is not relevant
last inlet
No one said they can't share blame
worthy rose
No, conditioning doesn't mean she is responsible, because the act itself of conditioning one's mind is part of the process of brainwashing
limpid agate
Widow is said to be conditioned explicitly and behaves in a manner that fits the definition of the word conditioned
Full stop.
worthy rose
What happened to her also fits the definition of brainwash
Also, nice way of shutting down a debate.....
lament prawn
no one's stretching the word, it's stretched
last inlet
You just keep insisting
last inlet
So you agree there's not much of a debate to shut down
limpid agate
You can make the argument that she fits the definition of servant
But she isn't a servant
worthy rose
And she is indeed a servant.
Just like you can use the word "settlement" and "city" to refer to Paris
No one will say "Paris is not a settlement, it's a city"
No one will say "Doomfist is not the master of Talon, he is the leader of Talon"
worthy rose
It doesn't become meaningless, that's how you want to see it
And indeed the guy who first brought this up even admitted this was just semantics
limpid agate
I'm just gonna end this and move on
worthy rose
@last inlet I hope you don't say in public that Paris isn't a settlement.....
limpid agate
I hope you don't say in public it is a settlement
worthy rose
You are aware that all words have several synonims, right?
lament prawn
brainwashing isnt too broad a term for it to be meaningless, and its not the only broad term out there
limpid agate
A response like that will only result in someone calling you a smartass with an air of derision
worthy rose
And this is starting from the assumption that broad terms are meaningless or shouldn't be used
last inlet
No it's not
worthy rose
Or it won't, because Paris is by definition a settlement and there's nothing strange about saying that
last inlet
Its saying if you stretch a word too thin, it starts to mean nothing
worthy rose
This sentence means nothing
limpid agate
Moving on
worthy rose
You just did with "moving on", but okay
last inlet
limpid agate
If you're going to be a smartass you're going to be disposed of
worthy rose
Given how I wasn't the one who started this debate about semantics in the first place, I am very clearly not the smartass
last inlet
You're being argumentative for the sake of it
limpid agate
@lament prawn What was that about her potential redemption arc