#lore-discussion | Overwatch | Page 458

limpid agate Jul 28, 2019, 1:42 AM

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What do you mean

worthy rose Jul 28, 2019, 1:42 AM

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he seems fine

limpid agate Jul 28, 2019, 1:43 AM

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Oh

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Mauga

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31 was supposed to be Mauga

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But gameplay changed too much from his character

north flame Jul 28, 2019, 1:44 AM

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I assume he's in development at this point and being fine tuned. No proof for that though

fringe blade Jul 28, 2019, 1:45 AM

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He's a tank, so it will be a while

north flame Jul 28, 2019, 1:45 AM

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I knew 31 was supposed to be mauga

fringe blade Jul 28, 2019, 1:45 AM

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Yea

worthy rose Jul 28, 2019, 1:45 AM

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it's still a

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tank

limpid agate Jul 28, 2019, 1:45 AM

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31 was supposed to be Mauga. But the gameplay was too different from the personality. So his character became a heavy assault.

worthy rose Jul 28, 2019, 1:46 AM

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and is still talon

limpid agate Jul 28, 2019, 1:46 AM

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He may still be in development

worthy rose Jul 28, 2019, 1:46 AM

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Mauga seemed too much of a roadhog copy

limpid agate Jul 28, 2019, 1:46 AM

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But its unconfirmed

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@worthy rose Not in the slightest

worthy rose Jul 28, 2019, 1:46 AM

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big, bulky, skin

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appearance

limpid agate Jul 28, 2019, 1:46 AM

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Yeah, not in the slightest

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Roadhog is a fat naked man

lament prawn Jul 28, 2019, 1:46 AM

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???

limpid agate Jul 28, 2019, 1:46 AM

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Mauga is a Heavy Assault

lament prawn Jul 28, 2019, 1:46 AM

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that makes no sense whatsoever

north flame Jul 28, 2019, 1:46 AM

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Also, they last said six in development were tanks and supports iirc

limpid agate Jul 28, 2019, 1:47 AM

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And that was when?

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Blizzcon?

north flame Jul 28, 2019, 1:47 AM

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Shortly after archives this year

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I may be remembering incorrectly, so don't quote me on that

limpid agate Jul 28, 2019, 1:47 AM

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So maybe Mauga is in development

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Still unconfirmed

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Unlike the other 3

fringe blade Jul 28, 2019, 1:48 AM

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They confirmed 3 are in development

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in the late stages of development

north flame Jul 28, 2019, 1:48 AM

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Well, the only reason I assume that is because the heavy assault has already been made

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I could be totally wrong, but my assumption has some ground to it

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Albeit not much

worthy rose Jul 28, 2019, 1:49 AM

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I

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want

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a new support

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Something like Mercy, long range, but good defense / dps

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not like moria

limpid agate Jul 28, 2019, 1:50 AM

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That's gameplay

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Echo is also probably support

worthy rose Jul 28, 2019, 1:50 AM

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I do ship them

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I feel like we need

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canon ships

limpid agate Jul 28, 2019, 1:51 AM

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We dont

worthy rose Jul 28, 2019, 1:51 AM

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Eh

limpid agate Jul 28, 2019, 1:51 AM

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Ship posting is shit posting. The only ship that is remotely related to the lore is the heavily teased Genji/Mercy.

north flame Jul 28, 2019, 1:51 AM

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What class do you think adds more depth to the game of the three in gameplay?

limpid agate Jul 28, 2019, 1:52 AM

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Or an actual canon relationship

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Sam/Ana, Gerard/Widow, Vincent/Soldier (all former

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Ingrid/Torb, Emily/Tracer

worthy rose Jul 28, 2019, 1:52 AM

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Cat-Jetpack ??

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Jeff teased him

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do you guys think he'd get lore with hammond

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and Horizon

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as it looks like the animals are put there in the lore

cosmic reef Jul 28, 2019, 1:54 AM

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I pray this shit never becomes real.

worthy rose Jul 28, 2019, 1:55 AM

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Why

limpid agate Jul 28, 2019, 1:55 AM

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Jetpack Cat was confirmed to never become a hero

worthy rose Jul 28, 2019, 1:55 AM

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He teased it

limpid agate Jul 28, 2019, 1:55 AM

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He said

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Nothing is off the table except Jetpack Cat

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Jetpack Cat will never become a hero

worthy rose Jul 28, 2019, 1:55 AM

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why y'all hatting

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Hammanond is a replacement

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and you guys love him ;-;

limpid agate Jul 28, 2019, 1:56 AM

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Jetpack Cat will objectively never become a hero. He was officially deconfirmed

worthy rose Jul 28, 2019, 1:57 AM

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I cri

fringe blade Jul 28, 2019, 1:57 AM

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And he is an absolute meme character

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At least Hammond is kind of serious

worthy rose Jul 28, 2019, 1:58 AM

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Rein is a meme

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garden nome

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😠

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im salty

fringe blade Jul 28, 2019, 1:59 AM

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Dude

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Don't shitpost

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please

limpid agate Jul 28, 2019, 1:59 AM

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!!shitposting @worthy rose

twilit nacelleBOT Jul 28, 2019, 1:59 AM

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@worthy rose Shitposting will result in a loss of access.

lament prawn Jul 28, 2019, 2:35 AM

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regarding mauga being almost done because we’ve already seen a heavy tank in-game

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the only thing that’s really done is the concept and basic model of the heavy assault

limpid agate Jul 28, 2019, 2:35 AM

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Yeah that aint accurate at all

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He wont be coming in soon

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Because we have heavies

lament prawn Jul 28, 2019, 2:36 AM

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the model would need more detail for a hero

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and the animations we’ve seen are all basic walks and attacks that dont evoke any character

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and they’re all third person

fringe blade Jul 28, 2019, 2:37 AM

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We know he is not 32 for sure

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Probably not 33

lament prawn Jul 28, 2019, 2:37 AM

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i know, but even so, its not that he’s done and on the shelf just because we’ve seen a heavy assault before

fringe blade Jul 28, 2019, 2:37 AM

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Yea

lament prawn Jul 28, 2019, 2:38 AM

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if there’s anyone we can consider almost done, it’s echo

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but the only thing we can confirm is a voice actress and the default model (no skins, no in-game animations or any of the sort that we’ve seen)

fringe blade Jul 28, 2019, 2:38 AM

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Imagine a hero, who in concept, would release a bunch of small minions

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Like spiders

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Controllable minions

lament prawn Jul 28, 2019, 2:39 AM

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like the little slicers in uprising?

fringe blade Jul 28, 2019, 2:39 AM

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Kind of

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Imagine a bunch of minions, controllable, the size of Snowball

lament prawn Jul 28, 2019, 2:40 AM

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how do you control a bunch at once

fringe blade Jul 28, 2019, 2:41 AM

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Doesn't have to be at once

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Rip-Tire like controls

lament prawn Jul 28, 2019, 2:46 AM

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i kinda want a hero who’s ult is “epic” in a more symbolic way (doesnt have to be game changing)

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nothing could beat an angel swooping into the battlefield and screaming “heroes never die” and bringing you back to life

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of course that was too game changing to the point where it had to be changed

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but the combination of the line and what the ult does

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it just felt right

north flame Jul 28, 2019, 2:51 AM

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Well, his personal has been around a while considering he was supposed to be sigma, so I don't think it's too unreasonable to think he was redesigned as the heavy assault shortly after work for sigma started

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Again, I have no proof for any of this. It's all what I consider to be plausible

lament prawn Jul 28, 2019, 2:53 AM

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it could very well be the case, its just that having seen a heavy assault in-game isnt a valid reason

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not that you said that specifically, sorry i assumed

north flame Jul 28, 2019, 2:56 AM

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No, I did. I said the design was already made. It would obviously have to be edited, but they did have a base model to work with already

lament prawn Jul 28, 2019, 2:58 AM

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just having the model of the suit done is very little compared to everything else that needs to be done

north flame Jul 28, 2019, 2:59 AM

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Well, think about it like this. CDs were used after specific intervals of engagements with the players by the AI. So the abilities and the like are there. Idk how complex it will be to transfer those to a playable character, but I do assume it isn't too bad

lament prawn Jul 28, 2019, 3:02 AM

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CDs?

north flame Jul 28, 2019, 3:03 AM

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Cooldowns

limpid agate Jul 28, 2019, 3:03 AM

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Theres more to the design than just the base outfit

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Compare Baptiste to a Trooper

lament prawn Jul 28, 2019, 3:03 AM

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it is very likely that all the animations will have to be redone, and they wont just copy whatever abilities the heavy assault had, they go by whatever is needed in-game as an ability

limpid agate Jul 28, 2019, 3:03 AM

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Or Widow to a Sniper

north flame Jul 28, 2019, 3:04 AM

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It's all speculation anyways

lament prawn Jul 28, 2019, 3:05 AM

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tbh he might even have a different base model, and the one we saw in the story as the “talon” skin, as all the talon agents have

north flame Jul 28, 2019, 3:05 AM

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Unless Jeff outright tells us when he's released or at some other time when they started development of him, I'll never know if my assumptions are right

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And that's fine

lament prawn Jul 28, 2019, 3:06 AM

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he could be done right now, but already having a heavy assault concept is super unlikely to be the reason

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all the heroes take so long to make, they wont toss in a generic heavy assault with a face

north flame Jul 28, 2019, 3:07 AM

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Widow isn't too different from the sniper TBH. The assassin is old genji from what I understand, and Baptiste is basically a modified trooper

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We know some stuff for him will definitely be different, and that will be the most time consuming part

lament prawn Jul 28, 2019, 3:08 AM

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you just made it sound like those heroes were made in a few days holy crap

north flame Jul 28, 2019, 3:08 AM

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If transferring abilities isn't too bad

lament prawn Jul 28, 2019, 3:08 AM

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“baptiste is basically a modified trooper”

limpid agate Jul 28, 2019, 3:10 AM

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Baptiste is a trooper

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Widow is a sniper

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Mauga is a heavy assault

lament prawn Jul 28, 2019, 3:11 AM

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countless animations, countless voicelines, fleshed out character, thought-out abilities and cooldowns that fit said character, skins, highlight intros, emotes

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trooper just shoots and has a basic moveset

limpid agate Jul 28, 2019, 3:12 AM

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Yes

north flame Jul 28, 2019, 3:12 AM

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Obviously they're going to take more work but the gameplay aspect has a lot done considering they're making stuff out of special talon troops used in retribution

lament prawn Jul 28, 2019, 3:12 AM

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yes theyre meant to fit those roles within talon, but the amount of work that goes into the two is very different

north flame Jul 28, 2019, 3:13 AM

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Genji used to stick to walls like the assassin when he was beta and used to use a sword

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They're dumbed down versions essentially

lament prawn Jul 28, 2019, 3:16 AM

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its meant to look like widowmaker is one of the snipers at talon, and that baptiste used to be one the troopers at talon, yes. its creative tbh, that there are roles and our beloved heroes arent just randomly accepted into talon with whatever skillset they have. thats the story element. but the amount of work that went into widowmaker as a hero and a character is incomparable to the amount of work that went into the sniper

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honestly i wouldnt be surprised if they threw in the heavy assaults knowing they’d introduce mauga at some point, and that he came first

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if the amount of time and effort that went into the other heroes is any indication

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they literally changed widow’s gun model because they didnt like the way the silhouette looked in first person

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so many little details that we’re not taking into account

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we can’t go off the heavy assault suit

peak escarp Jul 28, 2019, 3:26 AM

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in the illustration for WYLB, Mauga looked exactly like a Heavy Assault

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but the explosion at the end of the story gives them the freedom to change him however they like

north flame Jul 28, 2019, 3:28 AM

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I never said he'd be an exact copy. I said some abilities might be, and the model would probably have subtle differences

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Creating a model is difficult, creating abilities is difficult, but a lot of the groundwork has been layed using a base of the heavy assault

lament prawn Jul 28, 2019, 3:29 AM

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that might be true, but its little compared to everything else

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in sigma’s case, they worked his character into the abilities that they knew the game needed

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widowmaker can auto-fire and power up a sniper shot, grapple, use a venom mine, crouch, etc while the sniper grapples to one spot and just snipes and sometimes uses a pistol

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baptiste similarly has a wide range of abilities while the trooper just shoots

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idk why im dragging this on til now, i just find it more likely that mauga will be as different compared to the heavy assault as widowmaker is to a sniper and baptiste is to a trooper

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they just needed AI for you to fight, not a deep character or competitive hero

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moving on, are the talon skins (aside from baptiste’s) canon?

north flame Jul 28, 2019, 3:39 AM

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I assume they would be to a degree

lament prawn Jul 28, 2019, 3:42 AM

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for some reason i always thought those were worn about the same time overwatch wore their blue’s, even though there’s no evidence that suggests that

hasty surge Jul 28, 2019, 6:08 AM

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https://www.reddit.com/r/Overwatch/comments/cibu01/theres_somethingstrange_about_the_ships_flying/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app

r/Overwatch - There's something..strange about the ships flying ov...

19,021 votes and 311 comments so far on Reddit

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What's this?

peak escarp Jul 28, 2019, 6:22 AM

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some artists have a sense of humor?

deft hollow Jul 28, 2019, 7:29 AM

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Area 51 confirmed

devout sable Jul 28, 2019, 10:44 AM

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I sort of expected a Doomfist/Sombra/Widowmaker/Moira, then Doomfist/Sombra/Widowmaker/Baptiste, now I expect the next Talon event to be Widowmaker/Sombra/Baptiste/Mauga

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in hindsight, it makes sense, Doomfist would be sort of awkward to play in a PvE

limpid agate Jul 28, 2019, 10:49 AM

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Are the Talon skins canon

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Doomfists is in Retribution

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Widowmakerd is in Legacy, albeit with changes to her torso and heafgear

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@lament prawn

tardy zephyr Jul 28, 2019, 10:59 AM

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Why cant Blizzard just make another great movie just like warcraft but Overwatch

timid eagle Jul 28, 2019, 11:14 AM

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Baptiste’s Talon skin is also cannon.

deep schooner Jul 28, 2019, 11:17 AM

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Appearantly at blizzcon they're going to announce "Overwatch 2"

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Which is most likely going to be a campaign for the actual game and won't be a separate game

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@tardy zephyr

lament prawn Jul 28, 2019, 11:34 AM

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it probably wont be a mere update to the current game, it wasnt made to support proper pve mechanics

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the engine would need upgrades and changes

jade mortar Jul 28, 2019, 11:36 AM

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20 gb update

compact spoke Jul 28, 2019, 2:02 PM

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Man, I bet the PvE content updates must be intense but hilarious to play co-op on legendary.

limpid agate Jul 28, 2019, 2:05 PM

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@tardy zephyr Because movies cost lots of money

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And Warcraft nearly flopped

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Blizz was lucky China loved it

cedar galleon Jul 28, 2019, 2:09 PM

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Whatever OW 2 is I just Don't want it to kill what we have now

limpid agate Jul 28, 2019, 2:09 PM

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It won't

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Role queue should be proof enough that Overwatch isn't being replaced any time soon

cedar galleon Jul 28, 2019, 2:11 PM

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🙏🙏🙏

north flame Jul 28, 2019, 3:18 PM

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With as much ground as it's picked up as of late with 222, and old streamers at least saying they'll come back to play some, I don't expect an expansion, if we get one, to kill it.

peak escarp Jul 28, 2019, 3:31 PM

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I still don't think a Talon mission for Archives is a possibility

supple reef Jul 28, 2019, 3:58 PM

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Sure would be cool tho

peak escarp Jul 28, 2019, 3:59 PM

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it would be cool

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but Archives so far has been Overwatch missions, and I think they'll stick with that

north flame Jul 28, 2019, 4:00 PM

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Unless they have talon archives for their own stuff, I wouldn't bet on it. That's part of the issue I realized yesterday

supple reef Jul 28, 2019, 4:03 PM

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Or they could make an event similar to archives that runs alongside it but its talon missions instead

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both archives and talon cosmetics at the same time would be dope

peak escarp Jul 28, 2019, 4:06 PM

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it could be cool to suddenly have rebranding of Archives, like in the teaser it seems like a normal Archives teaser but then it gets hacked and turns all dark

lament prawn Jul 28, 2019, 4:09 PM

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it would be cool if somehow the mission still revolves primarily around overwatch, but youre playing the villain (talon) and doing the damage with your own hands

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but i agree, its unlikely

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i think our best bet is the pve game for that kind of stuff though

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if they're already making it, then there's no real need to upgrade archives

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unless its a very long wait until that game releases

worthy rose Jul 28, 2019, 5:33 PM

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Wonder why mercy wasnt there during the doomfist fight

knotty river Jul 28, 2019, 5:35 PM

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cuz she got fed up of genji spamming x

peak escarp Jul 28, 2019, 5:36 PM

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she was probably off doing that humanitarian work that Sojourn mentioned

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in Egypt, iirc

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or maybe she was there and we just didn't see her

lone rock Jul 29, 2019, 12:28 AM

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There is no italian character

peak escarp Jul 29, 2019, 12:31 AM

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and?

lone rock Jul 29, 2019, 12:32 AM

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Idk just saying

silent robin Jul 29, 2019, 12:34 AM

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thats sad

lone rock Jul 29, 2019, 12:34 AM

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Tue

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True

silent robin Jul 29, 2019, 12:34 AM

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i think they should add one

lone rock Jul 29, 2019, 12:34 AM

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Yeah

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And he shoots pizzas

silent robin Jul 29, 2019, 12:35 AM

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or has a pizza shield

lone rock Jul 29, 2019, 12:35 AM

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Or has a pizza shield

silent robin Jul 29, 2019, 12:35 AM

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wait what

lone rock Jul 29, 2019, 12:35 AM

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Wtf

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Thats weird

silent robin Jul 29, 2019, 12:35 AM

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it is

peak escarp Jul 29, 2019, 12:35 AM

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!!shitposting

twilit nacelleBOT Jul 29, 2019, 12:35 AM

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Shitposting will result in a loss of access.

silent robin Jul 29, 2019, 12:37 AM

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thats not shutposting

iron plume Jul 29, 2019, 12:45 AM

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if you have to say it's not shitposting, you're shitposting

lone rock Jul 29, 2019, 12:48 AM

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K

silent robin Jul 29, 2019, 1:06 AM

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well thats just wrong

valid shell Jul 29, 2019, 4:28 AM

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For serious, an Italian hero should be a beat cop with a robot dog who's tired of Talon's corruption in Rialto and hands in his badge and takes the law into his own hands.

river siren Jul 29, 2019, 4:38 AM

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Would a mythical type of creature ever possibly ever be added to the game? I mean we have a talking gorilla and an advanced hamster... seems likely that a mad scientist would create some sort of "creature"

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The kit could consist of purely physical and melee abilities

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or maybe a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Clyde ult type of thing where you transform into a experimental monster ravage monster like Winston's Ult.

iron plume Jul 29, 2019, 4:50 AM

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We already have a Dr Jekyll and Mr. Hyde type of thing like Winston's ult and it's Winston

teal meadow Jul 29, 2019, 7:42 AM

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i'm italian and i'm happy there's not any italian characters

valid shell Jul 29, 2019, 7:54 AM

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But there is.

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Or was, rather.

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Antonio.

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Your obligatory Italian is literally a mob boss named Tony.

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How does this feel.

worthy rose Jul 29, 2019, 7:55 AM

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AsheYell

valid shell Jul 29, 2019, 7:56 AM

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@worthy rose ?

worthy rose Jul 29, 2019, 7:56 AM

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what

valid shell Jul 29, 2019, 8:13 AM

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What's with the emoji.

worthy rose Jul 29, 2019, 8:15 AM

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idk

teal meadow Jul 29, 2019, 9:42 AM

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What do we know so far about doomfist before he joins talon?

ember hatch Jul 29, 2019, 10:55 AM

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KRUSHER99#2326
ON OW

hasty surge Jul 29, 2019, 10:56 AM

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@ember hatch this is lore

teal meadow Jul 29, 2019, 12:13 PM

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Krusher is spamming his channel everywhere

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i don't think he really cares about it

vernal adder Jul 29, 2019, 12:37 PM

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i think that hazo is genjis boyfriend

idle scarab Jul 29, 2019, 1:01 PM

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Bottom500

languid harness Jul 29, 2019, 1:01 PM

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😮

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😐

paper gazelle Jul 29, 2019, 1:16 PM

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Bruh.

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They're brothers.

hot prism Jul 29, 2019, 1:18 PM

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Pretty sure hes just trolling

worthy rose Jul 29, 2019, 1:19 PM

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!!shitposting @vernal adder

twilit nacelleBOT Jul 29, 2019, 1:19 PM

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@vernal adder Shitposting will result in a loss of access.

lime spindle Jul 29, 2019, 3:39 PM

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Who are all the members of talon we know? (Playable or not? ) DoomfistWhat

junior arch Jul 29, 2019, 3:51 PM

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Widow doom moira baptiste

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I think theres more i just woke up lul

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Reaper

valid shell Jul 29, 2019, 3:57 PM

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@lime spindle Reaper, Moira, Doomfist, Widowmaker, Sombra, Sigma, Sanjay, Maximilien, Antonio (deceased), Vialli (deceased).

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Previously Baptiste.

lime spindle Jul 29, 2019, 3:58 PM

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Thanks 😃

valid shell Jul 29, 2019, 3:58 PM

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Oh and Mauga.

worthy rose Jul 29, 2019, 4:02 PM

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And Accountant Nguyen

soft ledge Jul 29, 2019, 4:04 PM

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Reinhardt is talon right?

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Torn too

lime spindle Jul 29, 2019, 4:09 PM

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No...

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Not rein and torb

peak escarp Jul 29, 2019, 4:24 PM

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Talon members
Playable heroes: Reaper, Doomfist, Moira, Widowmaker, Sombra, Sigma, Baptiste (formerly)
NPCs: Sanjay, Maximilien, Mauga, Nguyen, McManaway , ~~Vialli~~, ~~Antonio~~, ~~Cuerva~~, ~~Pacanowsky~~, ~~Doubleday~~, ~~Mazzei~~

river siren Jul 29, 2019, 4:29 PM

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o wait was sigma confirmed talon?

peak escarp Jul 29, 2019, 4:29 PM

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yes

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📎 nesskain-nesskain-4.png

river siren Jul 29, 2019, 4:31 PM

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ooou

peak escarp Jul 29, 2019, 5:45 PM

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to compare

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New Overwatch members
confirmed: Winston, Tracer, Reinhardt, Brigitte, Mei, Echo
not confirmed: Genji, Torbjorn, Bastion, McCree

hazy vortex Jul 29, 2019, 6:47 PM

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I think it's implied genji is joining back up

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Considering he tells hanzo to make a choice

peak escarp Jul 29, 2019, 6:48 PM

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yes

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that's what I mean by not confirmed

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they're probably joining up, but they haven't directly said so

hazy vortex Jul 29, 2019, 6:49 PM

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Ah OK

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Reunion is in the present right?

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Because echo could also be a potential member

peak escarp Jul 29, 2019, 6:50 PM

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yes

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I listed Echo

hazy vortex Jul 29, 2019, 6:57 PM

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Oh ye

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I can read

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Dyslexia intensifies

last inlet Jul 29, 2019, 7:04 PM

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So I'm guessing Rein was confirmed in his short video?

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Does that mean Brig went too?

proven path Jul 29, 2019, 7:25 PM

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brig follows rein, but not sure. It looked like he wanted/was going back alone to me. My bet is still on brig joining him though.

peak escarp Jul 29, 2019, 7:34 PM

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yes

hazy vortex Jul 29, 2019, 8:44 PM

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If brig didn't go, there would be very little opportunity for her to get more decent lore

teal meadow Jul 29, 2019, 9:01 PM

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no one ever noticed that when sigma use his rock attack, there are some voice in backword in the background?

timid eagle Jul 29, 2019, 9:13 PM

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Not to sound like a shit head, but Brig has lore outside from smashing enemy skulls with her mace? It was only recently that I discovered she is obsessed with cats....

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Which isn’t mentioned in-game, a la voice line interactions.

cunning ledge Jul 29, 2019, 9:27 PM

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there's also like, two sprays that indicate that

peak escarp Jul 29, 2019, 9:31 PM

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and the mug on her toast victory pose is a jetpack cat

limpid agate Jul 29, 2019, 11:00 PM

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Brig's character is very poorly represented in game

worthy rose Jul 29, 2019, 11:14 PM

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What is her character?

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The way she is ingame hasnt really been seen in comics

peak escarp Jul 29, 2019, 11:31 PM

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she wants to be helpful and cares deeply for Reinhardt

lament prawn Jul 29, 2019, 11:54 PM

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its properly represented in terms of voicelines and animations (her "defender" highlight is one of my all time favorites because of the character it shows) as all characters are, its just that she appears more murderous in the game due to her abilities - although all the characters appear that way because of the sheer amount of eliminations you typically go through regardless of hero

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she just stands out because she veers away from her support role a little due to her abilities and the insane fuss the community have kicked up over her

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even had the voice actress in tears

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mei is another example of this (minus the threats toward the voice actress)

hot kite Jul 30, 2019, 12:03 AM

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Did torb make bastion

lament prawn Jul 30, 2019, 12:03 AM

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no

hot kite Jul 30, 2019, 12:04 AM

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He made the units tho

lament prawn Jul 30, 2019, 12:08 AM

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oh, huh, i never knew he worked on creating omnics

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doesnt look like there's proper confirmation on whether or not he created (or helped create) bastion, doctor six can correct me on that

north flame Jul 30, 2019, 12:09 AM

#

He created the bastion unit as a defense type robot for facilities. The omnics made his designs machines for war by modifying them

lament prawn Jul 30, 2019, 12:11 AM

#

oh, so what caused him to develop hate/mistrust for omnics if he knows their ins and outs?

#

something online suggests he wasnt on board with making them intelligent, but "his employers" disagreed and made them intelligent anyway

#

that would be in character for him

north flame Jul 30, 2019, 12:12 AM

#

Iirc it's because they gave him a reason to hate his own creations

peak escarp Jul 30, 2019, 12:17 AM

#

@lament prawn

#

📎 unknown.png

lament prawn Jul 30, 2019, 12:18 AM

#

ah, cool

#

is there anything on him not wanting them to be intelligent, therefore omnics?

#

i should reread the comics at some point

peak escarp Jul 30, 2019, 12:19 AM

#

afaik they were always intelligent

#

Originally created for peacekeeping purposes, Bastion robot units possessed the unique ability to rapidly reconfigure themselves into an assault-cannon mode. But during the Omnic Crisis, they were turned against their human makers, forming the bulk of the omnics' rebel army.

lament prawn Jul 30, 2019, 12:22 AM

#

ah, so it sounds like he developed his hate for omnics when the whole uprising happened

median plover Jul 30, 2019, 12:23 AM

#

Where's the Zen lorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrreeeeeeee

lament prawn Jul 30, 2019, 12:23 AM

#

although the forum i found online suggested they were indeed always intelligent, but torb never wanted them to be

#

soon™

limpid agate Jul 30, 2019, 12:24 AM

#

You will get Zen lore within 2 years

#

That could mean Blizzcon 2019

#

That could mean Blizzcon 2021

#

Thats your range

median plover Jul 30, 2019, 12:26 AM

#

hmm

north flame Jul 30, 2019, 12:27 AM

#

Tbf, he said about 2 years. So at the latest I'd say 2.5 years from now

peak escarp Jul 30, 2019, 12:27 AM

#

I'm going to be optimistic and say it'll probably be within a year

limpid agate Jul 30, 2019, 12:27 AM

#

Thats why I said Blizzcon 2021

#

That is ~2.5 years

hallow vessel Jul 30, 2019, 11:08 AM

#

i don't know why people expected hero 31 to be the storm rising omnic, that would be way too obvious, i belive that hero 32 is gonning to be junkertown queen

north flame Jul 30, 2019, 11:19 AM

#

I would love to see that but I'm not gonna hold my breath. I also feel that’s too early for her to be released

cunning ledge Jul 30, 2019, 11:21 AM

#

pretty sure they said that she's not a hero currently in production, or something like that

#

still the hero i'm wanting the most though

teal meadow Jul 30, 2019, 12:25 PM

#

Hopefully we might see sigma skins late today

hazy vortex Jul 30, 2019, 12:34 PM

#

If super duper is correct, we're looking at hero 36 onwards

#

Because there was that one time Jeff said there are 5 heroes currently being developed at some point after ashe

#

Not before sigma though

trim mountain Jul 30, 2019, 1:20 PM

#

My name jeff

north flame Jul 30, 2019, 1:46 PM

#

It was said to be six, not five, and that they were supposedly tanks and supports iirc

teal meadow Jul 30, 2019, 1:55 PM

#

@trim mountain your name fits you

trim mountain Jul 30, 2019, 2:23 PM

#

why say that

limpid agate Jul 30, 2019, 2:24 PM

#

Mostly* supports and tanks

trim mountain Jul 30, 2019, 2:25 PM

#

DoomfistMad

worthy rose Jul 30, 2019, 5:14 PM

#

We don't know.

#

They haven't said much about it

hazy vortex Jul 30, 2019, 6:39 PM

#

@ember lake there is a tone of speculation

#

Such as its something to do with an omnium

#

Or something about the omnics

lavish solar Jul 30, 2019, 6:45 PM

#

My best guess at hero 32 is Echo.

#

Cause Jeff said we’re getting her as a hero eventually, and as of right now there are more tanks than supports.

#

Maybe the cinematic at blizzcon will be a sequel to the mccree one.

peak escarp Jul 30, 2019, 6:49 PM

#

possibly

wraith seal Jul 30, 2019, 7:56 PM

#

I mean they already have the 3d model and the voice actress, would be a waste not include echo

hazy vortex Jul 30, 2019, 7:57 PM

#

I think she is on the table

worthy rose Jul 30, 2019, 8:29 PM

#

Echo and Sojourn are confirmed future heroes

#

Mauga I’m not so sure

#

Mainly cause they designed him first but his kit eventually became Sigma’s because it didnt fit him so it’s making me wonder

peak escarp Jul 30, 2019, 8:31 PM

#

Jeff said they still want to make Mauga

#

he'll just take longer because they have to start over on his kit

peak escarp Jul 30, 2019, 9:09 PM

#

Echo is a strong contender for Blizzcon

#

~~she should be a damage hero though~~

hazy vortex Jul 30, 2019, 9:14 PM

#

Echo as a damage would be an interesting concept

#

Would she use beams and stuff?

peak escarp Jul 30, 2019, 9:15 PM

#

yeah

timid eagle Jul 30, 2019, 9:18 PM

#

I’ll be content with Mauga being a 1:1 of the Talon Heavy Assault unit from Retribution, in addition to being an Off-Tank.

#

Sometimes, you don’t need to reinvent the wheel when creating new characters.

hazy vortex Jul 30, 2019, 9:23 PM

#

Or make him an elite version of that

#

Perhaps he would use modified guns

#

That are more like autocannond

#

I really think if mauga was added, he'd do well with a charge like Bob

peak escarp Jul 30, 2019, 9:24 PM

#

a charge with knockback instead of a pin

hazy vortex Jul 30, 2019, 9:24 PM

#

Also have we got a confirmation on release date for sigma

#

Yeah

peak escarp Jul 30, 2019, 9:25 PM

#

not officially, but they said he'd be available in comp Sept 1st, so he's likely going live with the Aug 13 patch

hazy vortex Jul 30, 2019, 9:26 PM

#

Cool

#

That times so well

#

I get back from my holiday to sigma

lavish solar Jul 30, 2019, 10:43 PM

#

Echo seems a lot like a support to me

#

If I had to guess her abilities I’d say something similar to Symmetra v1 but without sentries or teleporter

hot kite Jul 30, 2019, 10:46 PM

#

maybe echo can be life lifeline from Apex

iron plume Jul 30, 2019, 10:47 PM

#

in what way

lavish solar Jul 30, 2019, 10:49 PM

#

Healing drone and calling in a care package?

iron plume Jul 30, 2019, 10:49 PM

#

what would an overwatch care package do, exactly

lavish solar Jul 30, 2019, 10:50 PM

#

Cause the enemy junkrat to say “I’m getting the feeling they have a caaaaare package”

iron plume Jul 30, 2019, 10:50 PM

#

as for healing drone, that's basically the soldier field

lavish solar Jul 30, 2019, 10:50 PM

#

Yeah pretty much

lament prawn Jul 30, 2019, 11:13 PM

#

just based off the glimpse into her character we saw in the short, im getting strong support vibes

tribal current Jul 30, 2019, 11:19 PM

#

Howdy fellas, ain't much to discuss here amirite dohohohoh

peak escarp Jul 30, 2019, 11:29 PM

#

there's plenty

worthy rose Jul 31, 2019, 12:45 AM

#

Is Reaper being secretly an extremist good guy double agent a plausible theory or just a crack one?

limpid agate Jul 31, 2019, 1:04 AM

#

Crack

#

The only base for it is

#

He used to be a good guy

#

Being a double agent would undermine all the killing he's done so far, and for what purpose?

#

By which I mean

#

Its not like "No Russian" undercover killing civilians

#

The theory is that he is killing the people who are capable of saving the world... So he can save the world?

lament prawn Jul 31, 2019, 1:06 AM

#

there wont be much to save if he keeps doing what he's doing

limpid agate Jul 31, 2019, 1:06 AM

#

Hence

#

Its not his goal

#

And the theory makes no sense

#

He's one of the villains with a very clear goal and motive

#

Goal: Kill Overwatch
Motive: Revenge

lament prawn Jul 31, 2019, 1:09 AM

#

we know of various characters' goals within talon, but what is talon's collective goal as an organization?

limpid agate Jul 31, 2019, 1:10 AM

#

Before Doomfist: $$$$$$

#

After Doomfist: War

lament prawn Jul 31, 2019, 1:10 AM

#

wait how were they making $

limpid agate Jul 31, 2019, 1:10 AM

#

Business and theft

#

Antonio was a weapon smuggler

#

Max had an empire that made money and also covered money laundering

#

Baptistes missions were all to collect money from debtors

lament prawn Jul 31, 2019, 1:11 AM

#

ohh, i see

limpid agate Jul 31, 2019, 1:12 AM

#

Stealing priceless artefacts and technilogies...

#

Everything about Vialli...

#

Sanjay being Vishkar, a conpany that is basically a war profiteer

#

Doomfist just wants a war to evolve humanity

#

And there is profit to be made for Vishkar there

#

And if there's profit to be made, Max is interested

lament prawn Jul 31, 2019, 1:15 AM

#

there's an interaction where symmetra makes a negative comment about doomfist's motive and he says "order, chaos... means to an end"

#

so he agrees that chaos isnt the only way?

limpid agate Jul 31, 2019, 1:16 AM

#

He says both Order and Chaos are merely the methods to arrive at a goal.

#

He doesn't care about the method as much as the goal

#

Sym is criticizing the method

lament prawn Jul 31, 2019, 1:17 AM

#

hm

worthy rose Jul 31, 2019, 1:19 AM

#

I think it holds some weight in that his joining of Talon does seem a bit odd given his hatred of them as seen from Retribution. I'm not saying he is double agent but we have yet to see his actual reason for joining Talon.

Yes we know he had issues with Jack and the further restrictions and basically house arrest brought to him by being uncovered during Retribution but I don't think these things make sufficient motive for joining the very organization he fought so heavily to destroy. They killed Gerard, his good friend, and They killed a sufficient number of agents in the blackwatch building with a bomb implanted inside.

Possible reasons with the details we know of as of right now about why he joined would be

Moira's experiments messed with head and thus could have driven him to her
As you've stated before "Revenge" which I think is a valid reason but misplaced. The reason being is it feels too much like a misdirect given the panel where he plays the pronoun game. He uses They and He which feels too much like an intentional misdirect to me to something else. Which I don't yet know

#

📎 unknown.png

#

My reasoning as to why his revenge motive isn't as strong as it could be is because Gabriel essentially knew Jack's hands were tied. Yes Jack was the one who had to restrict Gabriel's actions and they fought a lot but Gabriel should have known how the public and governments of the world would have reacted and would have had the intelligence not to outright blame Jack for his actions since Jack, based on their interaction in Retribution seems to have let Gabriel have free reign and I assume this wasn't the first time Jack sanctioned an off the books mission for Gabriel. Any internal Overwatch strife we do see is really often only told to us but the severity of it is not yet known. We have one traitor in the Baptiste short story and Mercy's comment in Storm Rising leading for us to believe they have butted heads. Hence why I believe Gabriel's hatred for the organization and thus revenge on it doesn't make much sense.

north flame Jul 31, 2019, 1:28 AM

#

He could just have a scuffed method of reaching his actual goal, possibly unknown, like thanos' perfect universe solution

worthy rose Jul 31, 2019, 1:28 AM

#

I mean I have a couple theories

#

All of which are personal speculation with circumstantial evidence at best

north flame Jul 31, 2019, 1:29 AM

#

I'm actually gonna leave that last bit out because of spoilers

pearl portal Jul 31, 2019, 1:50 AM

#

how is sigma 62 yet looks so good

limpid agate Jul 31, 2019, 1:56 AM

#

Same as every other hero.

#

Pixar magic

worthy rose Jul 31, 2019, 3:38 AM

#

I'm not entirely sure if this was mentioned here before, but I just noticed that in the Reinhardt cinematic towards the end when Rein busts out of a wall to shield his teammates, the hole in the wall is that broken down wall in the rectangular building by the first point of Eichenwalde

limpid agate Jul 31, 2019, 3:39 AM

#

Yes

#

The maps in the shorts don't make sense with the maps in game

#

At the start when Balderich and the army are holding off the Bastions at the bridge

#

And ask "where is Reinhardt"

#

He is off fighting on that exact same bridge.

#

But not

#

"Where is Reinhardt?"

📎 unknown.png

#

"Here"

📎 unknown.png

worthy rose Jul 31, 2019, 3:41 AM

#

Oh they just go into different parts at will

limpid agate Jul 31, 2019, 3:41 AM

#

They go where cinematic value goes

#

The cinematic locations don't make sense

#

Its like the car chase from Bulitt

#

Where they go by the same exact intersection 8 times in a row

#

But film it so it looks like a long car chase

#

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=no7XR7s8Z7o

YouTube

Movieclips

Bullitt (1968) - San Francisco Car Chase Scene (4/10) | Movieclips

Bullitt movie clips: http://j.mp/2jsMrf9 BUY THE MOVIE: http://bit.ly/2jxFNUN Don't miss the HOTTEST NEW TRAILERS: http://bit.ly/1u2y6pr CLIP DESCRIPTION: Bu...

▶ Play video

cinder dawn Jul 31, 2019, 3:44 AM

#

😄

limpid agate Jul 31, 2019, 3:44 AM

#

1:20 to 2:20 is the same exact intersection.

#

And the same exact scene

#

Filmed from 5 different perspectives

#

And edited in a way so it looks like a minute long chase through the city

#

When really, its just 10 seconds of driving down hill looped from 6 different cameras

#

Not quite the same as Honour and Glory

peak escarp Jul 31, 2019, 3:45 AM

#

I guess when you have no budget you have to get clever

limpid agate Jul 31, 2019, 3:45 AM

#

But the similarity is using the same locale for different scenes

worthy rose Jul 31, 2019, 3:45 AM

#

Fair, I see what you mean

peak escarp Jul 31, 2019, 3:46 AM

#

in the case of Honor and Glory, they had to use the map as-is and it doesn't have enough space to tell the story without getting creative

worthy rose Jul 31, 2019, 4:09 AM

#

wheres my bob lore

#

smh

peak escarp Jul 31, 2019, 4:15 AM

#

what's there to know? he's a mute omnic butler

worthy rose Jul 31, 2019, 4:19 AM

#

hes more than that

#

hes bob

peak escarp Jul 31, 2019, 4:20 AM

#

okay

#

is that supposed to mean something?

lament prawn Jul 31, 2019, 4:26 AM

#

there has to be more to know but as of now he’s serving his purpose as a character

worthy rose Jul 31, 2019, 4:27 AM

#

yikes

peak escarp Jul 31, 2019, 4:36 AM

#

he's an accessory to Ashe's story

misty magnet Jul 31, 2019, 9:54 AM

#

Lol

earnest sparrow Jul 31, 2019, 10:00 AM

#

zenyatta

light obsidian Jul 31, 2019, 2:09 PM

#

PharahCool

#

Dragonblade

iron plume Jul 31, 2019, 6:09 PM

#

Please don’t

vapid zodiac Jul 31, 2019, 6:35 PM

#

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d09neUP70v8&feature=youtu.be

young delta Jul 31, 2019, 7:01 PM

#

new idea, moira and sigma are related

last inlet Jul 31, 2019, 7:09 PM

#

That's an idea I guess

#

But no basis whatsoevee

peak escarp Jul 31, 2019, 7:20 PM

#

terrible idea

bright edge Jul 31, 2019, 7:21 PM

#

If you mean blood related Moira is irish and Sigma is dutch anyways

worthy rose Jul 31, 2019, 9:15 PM

#

@limpid agate didn't respond to your response so here:

Thanks, actually. I knew diddly and figured it was nonsense but thought I'd ask.

#

It's a coolish theory on paper but that's it

limpid agate Jul 31, 2019, 10:12 PM

#

What is this ping about

last inlet Jul 31, 2019, 10:55 PM

#

Reaper being an extremist good guy possibly

limpid agate Jul 31, 2019, 11:23 PM

#

Oh yeah that crack

frosty shell Aug 1, 2019, 1:39 AM

#

As for Reaper saying "He" and "They"

#

It may be the pronoun game, but I think "He" is Jack (who let the explosion go off), and "They" is Overwatch in general

#

I haven't seen this possibility brought up, but I want to shoot it down before it comes up: I don't think Reaper's grudge against Overwatch is aimed at the bureaucrats like Petras

#

Given that he's going after combat agents

worthy rose Aug 1, 2019, 1:57 AM

#

I disagree and I do think it is the pronoun game

#

Jack clearly didn't want Overwatch to shut down and even now his goal is essentially to avenge it

#

So he would not let the explosion go off and that is still weak character motivation for Reaper to just be "Fuck this organization. I'm gonna kill everyone who worked here"

frosty shell Aug 1, 2019, 1:59 AM

#

We don't know Jack's motivations at the time

#

He may have felt like Overwatch had slipped out of his control

#

And thus saw the need to take back control from Reyes

worthy rose Aug 1, 2019, 2:00 AM

#

Jack was leader of Overwatch and based on his own accounts from his origin story, he clearly was trying to calm down the negative press it was getting

frosty shell Aug 1, 2019, 2:00 AM

#

Yes

#

Trying to curb Reyes' actions may have been part of that

limpid agate Aug 1, 2019, 2:00 AM

#

Obviously Reyes had motivation to fight Jack before the HQ exploded

#

Its more than just

#

"They left me to suffer"

frosty shell Aug 1, 2019, 2:01 AM

#

^

#

And Reyes is talking to Ana, with Jack nearby

#

Making it more likely he was talking about Jack

limpid agate Aug 1, 2019, 2:02 AM

#

The speculation about what happened that made him snap and 180 is about what happened between the explosion and Uprising.

frosty shell Aug 1, 2019, 2:02 AM

#

He might not have

limpid agate Aug 1, 2019, 2:03 AM

#

What we know happened in that time was:
Reinhardt retires
McCree quits
Storm Rising
Genji quits
Ana "dies"

frosty shell Aug 1, 2019, 2:03 AM

#

The real question is why he joined Talon

limpid agate Aug 1, 2019, 2:03 AM

#

McCree quitting was in direct response to not wanting to take a side

worthy rose Aug 1, 2019, 2:03 AM

#

Yea but that's not been further developed yet. As of right now, I don't think there's enough evidence to point Reaper at Jack and Overwatch, which before recall was defunct, and say "He's a bad guy that just hates Overwatch and Jack" without more being shown to provide said escalation despite him working for a terrorist organization with overwatch out of the way and Jack "dead"

limpid agate Aug 1, 2019, 2:03 AM

#

So that's not relevant and came after Reaper started to bend the other way

#

It could be related to the event that made Rein retire, it could be tied to Ana dying.

#

Reyes was just as close to her as Jack

worthy rose Aug 1, 2019, 2:04 AM

#

So most if not all his character motivation at that point was basically gone; Overwatch was dead; Jack, the person we're claiming he hates is assumed dead and was out of the way for those years when he took the persona of reaper

limpid agate Aug 1, 2019, 2:04 AM

#

Or they could all be pieces in the overall puzzle

peak escarp Aug 1, 2019, 2:05 AM

#

Reyes blamed Jack for Ana's "death"

frosty shell Aug 1, 2019, 2:05 AM

#

He might've just joined Talon to get back in touch with Moira

worthy rose Aug 1, 2019, 2:05 AM

#

The only motivation that makes sense emotionally to me is to look out for Widowmaker who was the widow of his close friend whom was being used as an assassin

#

Where does Reyes blame Jack Doc?

peak escarp Aug 1, 2019, 2:06 AM

#

"They left you to die"

frosty shell Aug 1, 2019, 2:06 AM

#

That's not Jack

peak escarp Aug 1, 2019, 2:06 AM

#

he blames Overwatch for not finding her

frosty shell Aug 1, 2019, 2:06 AM

#

To me, that feels like Reaper trying to get sympathy

worthy rose Aug 1, 2019, 2:06 AM

#

But they didn't tho; I recall Soldier saying he had people on the floor looking for her as well as Gabe himself saying the same thing

#

I think he put McCree on the ground floor to help look for her

peak escarp Aug 1, 2019, 2:07 AM

#

yes

#

he probably put McCree on it because whoever Jack sent wasn't successful

frosty shell Aug 1, 2019, 2:07 AM

#

Reyes could be lying to get Ana to question Overwatch

lament prawn Aug 1, 2019, 2:07 AM

#

what’s talon’s motivation for “infiltration”, doomfist’s whole chaos deal?

worthy rose Aug 1, 2019, 2:08 AM

#

So why would he blame Jack, who like him and like Ana, is a hardened Veteran and knew that these things, their mission, would potentially result in the loss of one of their lives some day

frosty shell Aug 1, 2019, 2:08 AM

#

Talon's motive for Infiltration was money

worthy rose Aug 1, 2019, 2:08 AM

#

no

frosty shell Aug 1, 2019, 2:08 AM

#

Or something of that ilk

peak escarp Aug 1, 2019, 2:08 AM

#

Infiltration was a mission to assassinate Katya Volskaya

worthy rose Aug 1, 2019, 2:08 AM

#

It was to kill Volskya and further cause turmoil for Doomfist's plan

frosty shell Aug 1, 2019, 2:08 AM

#

Doomfist was skeptical of the plan

peak escarp Aug 1, 2019, 2:08 AM

#

which Doomfist was happy that it failed

worthy rose Aug 1, 2019, 2:08 AM

#

Wait

#

Timeline mixed up

#

mb

frosty shell Aug 1, 2019, 2:09 AM

#

Yeah

#

Reaper was fine with Sombra screwing it up too

peak escarp Aug 1, 2019, 2:09 AM

#

Vialli ordered the hit because Volskaya wasn't cooperating with Talon

lament prawn Aug 1, 2019, 2:09 AM

#

why was he happy that it failed? rough people up so they “evolve” instead of killing them?

frosty shell Aug 1, 2019, 2:09 AM

#

He was happy because he considered it a waste

peak escarp Aug 1, 2019, 2:10 AM

#

📎 unknown.png

#

she will keep the conflict in Russia going

frosty shell Aug 1, 2019, 2:10 AM

#

^ Doomfist likes that

peak escarp Aug 1, 2019, 2:10 AM

#

if she died, someone sympathetic to the omnics might take over and end the Second Crisis

frosty shell Aug 1, 2019, 2:10 AM

#

Yes

lament prawn Aug 1, 2019, 2:10 AM

#

ah

frosty shell Aug 1, 2019, 2:11 AM

#

I know that OW wants to avoid real world politics but I'd like to see a conflict which doesn't have to do with Omnics

worthy rose Aug 1, 2019, 2:11 AM

#

They couldn't unless it was really outlandish

peak escarp Aug 1, 2019, 2:11 AM

#

this conversation in particular makes Doomfist's map interaction on Volskaya very out of character

#

📎 000000041448.0B2-This_time_I_will_make_sure_we_do_not_fail.ogg

worthy rose Aug 1, 2019, 2:12 AM

#

What's really interesting to me is Sombra's slip up

#

We see in that same comic that Reaper basically heard everything she stated or at the very least heard enough to know that she didn't do as the mission stated
And I attribute that to Sombra's ear piece not being out

peak escarp Aug 1, 2019, 2:13 AM

#

the Talon vs. Overwatch conflict isn't involving omnics directly

frosty shell Aug 1, 2019, 2:14 AM

#

Good point

#

Sainclair jacking up prices was a little weird, but at least that's a real-life conflict

#

We could have wars over resources

#

Or drugs

peak escarp Aug 1, 2019, 2:15 AM

#

Sombra doesn't take her earpiece out until after she already admitted to setting off the alarm

#

it appears to be an open channel

worthy rose Aug 1, 2019, 2:16 AM

#

Yea hence her slip up

frosty shell Aug 1, 2019, 2:16 AM

#

Reaper might've just figured out Sombra did her own thing

worthy rose Aug 1, 2019, 2:16 AM

#

which is super intriguing to me since she's been doing an absurdly good job on not getting tracked

lament prawn Aug 1, 2019, 2:16 AM

#

“relax im not going to kill you”
“do you have the target?”

#

would make sense with that timing too

worthy rose Aug 1, 2019, 2:16 AM

#

Mhmm

frosty shell Aug 1, 2019, 2:17 AM

#

I just came up with a wild theory

#

What if Reaper's goal in Talon is to force the UN to reform Overwatch, but with more power?

misty fractal Aug 1, 2019, 2:18 AM

#

that's dumb

frosty shell Aug 1, 2019, 2:18 AM

#

A new conflict would accomplish that

misty fractal Aug 1, 2019, 2:18 AM

#

sorry

lament prawn Aug 1, 2019, 2:18 AM

#

not being tracked... enter zarya

frosty shell Aug 1, 2019, 2:18 AM

#

Not really that dumb IMO

lament prawn Aug 1, 2019, 2:19 AM

#

literally about to steal their data and blow winston’s head off

#

hmm

#

also data hacker possibly made by sombra?

frosty shell Aug 1, 2019, 2:19 AM

#

That would certainly get the UN thinking about Overwatch wouldn't it

lament prawn Aug 1, 2019, 2:19 AM

#

irrelevant but the type of thing i think about

frosty shell Aug 1, 2019, 2:19 AM

#

Yes Sombra could've made that

#

And Reaper's mission did get Winston to recall Overwatch

lament prawn Aug 1, 2019, 2:20 AM

#

but what would he have done if winston didnt clarify that he wasnt a monkey

peak escarp Aug 1, 2019, 2:20 AM

#

question about the earpieces/comms during Infiltration

#

didn't Widowmaker also have one?

limpid agate Aug 1, 2019, 2:21 AM

#

@lament prawn It was made by Sombra

#

I recall that being confirmed but cannot remember when/where

peak escarp Aug 1, 2019, 2:21 AM

#

so she would have heard Sombra's "slip up" as well

frosty shell Aug 1, 2019, 2:21 AM

#

Hunting down Overwatch agents might get people thinking "hmmm maybe Overwatch should be back?"

limpid agate Aug 1, 2019, 2:21 AM

#

@peak escarp Its not always live

lament prawn Aug 1, 2019, 2:21 AM

#

@limpid agate im surprised her logo wasnt everywhere with the room glowing purple, she loves doing that

limpid agate Aug 1, 2019, 2:21 AM

#

If it was, you would easily go deaf from gunshots

#

Just look at Alive for another in-universe example

peak escarp Aug 1, 2019, 2:22 AM

#

Reaper uses his at the end with both hands occupied

limpid agate Aug 1, 2019, 2:22 AM

#

Reaper is also a ghost.

peak escarp Aug 1, 2019, 2:23 AM

#

and Widowmaker says "I am in position" with both her hands on her rifle

limpid agate Aug 1, 2019, 2:23 AM

#

That's a fair example

#

Its still not always live

#

But how they are using it is inconsistent in the short

peak escarp Aug 1, 2019, 2:23 AM

#

it's probably just for cinematic effect, but it does leave a possibility of it being an open channel

limpid agate Aug 1, 2019, 2:23 AM

#

If it was, you'd go deaf from Widow's Kiss

frosty shell Aug 1, 2019, 2:24 AM

#

Widowmaker's body has been re-engineered

lament prawn Aug 1, 2019, 2:24 AM

#

oh yeah, tracer was able to contact mondatta’s agents even though she didnt have the public authority or support to do so, tech savvy recall responder we havent heard of?

frosty shell Aug 1, 2019, 2:24 AM

#

Widowmaker's body has been re-engineered

#

She might have an implanted earpiece

limpid agate Aug 1, 2019, 2:24 AM

#

She was genetically engineered

#

Not cybernetically

frosty shell Aug 1, 2019, 2:24 AM

#

Not just genetics

peak escarp Aug 1, 2019, 2:24 AM

#

my favourite bit of Infiltration is still Widowmaker's "Quoi?!" when the alarm goes off

lament prawn Aug 1, 2019, 2:25 AM

#

@peak escarp widowmaker also uses her fingers to activate her visor sometimes and magically puts it on/off at others, cinematic convenience

frosty shell Aug 1, 2019, 2:25 AM

#

Her physiology has been changed

peak escarp Aug 1, 2019, 2:25 AM

#

true

frosty shell Aug 1, 2019, 2:25 AM

#

Giving her an implanted earpiece is not crazy

peak escarp Aug 1, 2019, 2:25 AM

#

it is inconsistent

frosty shell Aug 1, 2019, 2:26 AM

#

Tracer is likely authorized to contact security channels

#

Or something like that

#

Given her service in Overwatch

misty fractal Aug 1, 2019, 2:27 AM

#

I can see that

lament prawn Aug 1, 2019, 2:27 AM

#

isnt overwatch shut down and illegal by then?

light rain Aug 1, 2019, 2:27 AM

#

I love that it’s just Andy Samberg staring at a derpy looking McRae

frosty shell Aug 1, 2019, 2:27 AM

#

She must have some sort of provisions from the law if she can carry guns and bombs on her person

misty fractal Aug 1, 2019, 2:27 AM

#

true

#

how about the black market

frosty shell Aug 1, 2019, 2:28 AM

#

If Alive is before the museum heist, the law might not realize she is working for Overwatch

lament prawn Aug 1, 2019, 2:29 AM

#

recall itself is against the law, i dont think the law matters to them, just doing whats right

misty fractal Aug 1, 2019, 2:29 AM

#

black market she can get all of her equpment there

#

equipment *

frosty shell Aug 1, 2019, 2:29 AM

#

But this equipment was made for her by Winston

lament prawn Aug 1, 2019, 2:29 AM

#

oh i just remembered she was casually in the crowd with people recognizing her

misty fractal Aug 1, 2019, 2:29 AM

#

the bombs

frosty shell Aug 1, 2019, 2:29 AM

#

At least her guns were

misty fractal Aug 1, 2019, 2:29 AM

#

black market

#

solved

frosty shell Aug 1, 2019, 2:30 AM

#

The bombs yeah those could have been acquired illegally

misty fractal Aug 1, 2019, 2:31 AM

#

so that could be a thing

frosty shell Aug 1, 2019, 2:31 AM

#

Though I doubt Tracer would want to risk getting in unnecessary trouble

lament prawn Aug 1, 2019, 2:31 AM

#

her guns are hidden in her arm holsters, what im really concerned about is her walking in public as the one and only tracer from overwatch

frosty shell Aug 1, 2019, 2:31 AM

#

Tracer may not be a criminal at this point

#

Also, security must trust her if they let her near Mondatta with her guns

misty fractal Aug 1, 2019, 2:32 AM

#

well she most likely wont go the villan side

#

they didn't know she was armed tho

frosty shell Aug 1, 2019, 2:33 AM

#

But they would've checked

lament prawn Aug 1, 2019, 2:33 AM

#

the agents didnt recognize her and she didnt make an effort to identify herself

frosty shell Aug 1, 2019, 2:33 AM

#

They would recognize Tracer

misty fractal Aug 1, 2019, 2:33 AM

#

she could've snuck in

frosty shell Aug 1, 2019, 2:33 AM

#

Yeah she could've

#

Good point

lament prawn Aug 1, 2019, 2:33 AM

#

she may have wanted to get lost in the crowd and brought her gear to protect mondatta

misty fractal Aug 1, 2019, 2:34 AM

#

she'll just blink thought the croud

frosty shell Aug 1, 2019, 2:34 AM

#

I doubt she'd've had any inclination to protect Mondatta

lament prawn Aug 1, 2019, 2:34 AM

#

i mean recognize her as in knowing its her speaking to them - this more or less rules out having their direct trust or support

misty fractal Aug 1, 2019, 2:34 AM

#

until she saw widowmaker

peak escarp Aug 1, 2019, 2:34 AM

#

why wouldn't she protect Mondatta?

#

she idolized him

misty fractal Aug 1, 2019, 2:34 AM

#

^

frosty shell Aug 1, 2019, 2:34 AM

#

I meant

#

She didn't expect to do so

peak escarp Aug 1, 2019, 2:35 AM

#

ah

#

yeah, she didn't go to the rally thinking she'd have to play bodyguard

frosty shell Aug 1, 2019, 2:35 AM

#

She obviously jumped into action to protect him right away

#

My guess as to why she was carrying weapons was to protect from Talon

peak escarp Aug 1, 2019, 2:35 AM

#

but she had to be armed for the fight with Widowmaker to work

#

so . . . plot device

misty fractal Aug 1, 2019, 2:35 AM

#

she always is

frosty shell Aug 1, 2019, 2:35 AM

#

I think my reason makes sense

lament prawn Aug 1, 2019, 2:36 AM

#

could she possibly have a had a heads up? she knew something was off just by the guy using his earpiece and i dont know if she follows such a public figure every time he makes a speech

frosty shell Aug 1, 2019, 2:36 AM

#

She must know about the attacks on OW agents by Reaper

misty fractal Aug 1, 2019, 2:36 AM

#

she has to have the translocator because she'll vanish without it

frosty shell Aug 1, 2019, 2:37 AM

#

Yeah, she needs her translocator

peak escarp Aug 1, 2019, 2:37 AM

#

chronal accelerator

frosty shell Aug 1, 2019, 2:37 AM

#

Oops

#

Chronal accelerator

peak escarp Aug 1, 2019, 2:37 AM

#

same tech as the translocator, so easy mistake

frosty shell Aug 1, 2019, 2:37 AM

#

I forgot the term

misty fractal Aug 1, 2019, 2:37 AM

#

I'm hitting the sack it's almost 11 where I'm at

frosty shell Aug 1, 2019, 2:37 AM

#

Yeag

lament prawn Aug 1, 2019, 2:37 AM

#

she needs her chronal accelerator, not her signature tracer outfit or weaponry

prisma wren Aug 1, 2019, 2:37 AM

#

is the christmas comic canon?

frosty shell Aug 1, 2019, 2:38 AM

#

Yes

lament prawn Aug 1, 2019, 2:38 AM

#

it makes sense she’d have the latter

frosty shell Aug 1, 2019, 2:38 AM

#

It is canon

prisma wren Aug 1, 2019, 2:38 AM

#

but in the comic tracer dosent have her chronal accelerator

lament prawn Aug 1, 2019, 2:38 AM

#

she doesnt need to be wearing it

#

it has to be nearby

frosty shell Aug 1, 2019, 2:38 AM

#

That's only at her home

lament prawn Aug 1, 2019, 2:38 AM

#

and it was in the background

frosty shell Aug 1, 2019, 2:38 AM

#

Where she can leave it nearby

#

She likely wears her Tracer outfit because it's built for the Chronal Accelerator

lament prawn Aug 1, 2019, 2:39 AM

#

i mean, she uses straps for that

#

and although they are non-canon skins, she should be able to wear other stuff

#

she cant be in uniform 24/7

frosty shell Aug 1, 2019, 2:40 AM

#

Yeah

lament prawn Aug 1, 2019, 2:40 AM

#

i think they just wanted tracer and widowmaker’s signature outfits for the face off and clash of personalities

frosty shell Aug 1, 2019, 2:40 AM

#

I still think that having to protect against Talon is a good reason for her to open carry

lament prawn Aug 1, 2019, 2:40 AM

#

since those reflect them best

frosty shell Aug 1, 2019, 2:41 AM

#

Or semi-open

lament prawn Aug 1, 2019, 2:41 AM

#

its better not to dive too deep into realism in a universe like this

frosty shell Aug 1, 2019, 2:41 AM

#

Yeah

#

Though it's fine to critique some holes

peak escarp Aug 1, 2019, 2:42 AM

#

they were pretty attached to having the default look in the shorts

#

although Rise and Shine and Honor and Glory tossed that idea

#

hopefully we'll see more shorts with the heroes "out of uniform"

lament prawn Aug 1, 2019, 2:43 AM

#

hopefully we’ll see more shorts

limpid agate Aug 1, 2019, 2:43 AM

#

Those two shorts tossed it to make skins.

#

They went back to it with Reunion so far. And kinda Shooting Star

lament prawn Aug 1, 2019, 2:44 AM

#

d.va lacking her pink make up really helped show the off-camera hana

peak escarp Aug 1, 2019, 2:44 AM

#

I want Reinhardt in a tank top and cargo pants.

worthy rose Aug 1, 2019, 2:56 AM

#

i need this image out of my head now

peak escarp Aug 1, 2019, 2:58 AM

#

📎 unknown.png

#

that's literally what he's wearing in the short

worthy rose Aug 1, 2019, 2:58 AM

#

oh i read shorts

#

ok question about rein (i wasnt able to find the comics/references)

#

he had hallucinations about dragons, no?

lament prawn Aug 1, 2019, 3:00 AM

#

shame we cant get skins that drastically change proportions because it would mess with animations, im surprised they pulled off honeydew mei (although you can tell at some points her finger animations were meant for thicker fingers)

peak escarp Aug 1, 2019, 3:01 AM

#

it's unclear whether the "dragons" he sees in the comic are literally what he sees, or just his imagination

#

or even if it's just for the sake of the audience

worthy rose Aug 1, 2019, 3:02 AM

#

ah fair, i assumed thats the "I slay dragons" bit

prisma wren Aug 1, 2019, 3:02 AM

#

if he had a skin like that then the hammer might be a bit hard

#

to design

lament prawn Aug 1, 2019, 3:03 AM

#

he cant have a skin like that because they’d probably have to re-do all his animations

peak escarp Aug 1, 2019, 3:03 AM

#

yeah

prisma wren Aug 1, 2019, 3:03 AM

#

how so?

peak escarp Aug 1, 2019, 3:03 AM

#

he needs to be big

lament prawn Aug 1, 2019, 3:03 AM

#

he’s in a giant suit

#

the hands are waaay bigger

peak escarp Aug 1, 2019, 3:04 AM

#

Reinhardt is a big guy, but not as big as when he's in the suit

prisma wren Aug 1, 2019, 3:04 AM

#

i suppose

#

i just got an idea for the hammer

worthy rose Aug 1, 2019, 3:04 AM

#

i wont go too into the gameplay in this channel but his gigantic hitbox was one of his "balancing" because he can face tank a bunch of damage, if they lowered his hitbox it would change his balance

lament prawn Aug 1, 2019, 3:04 AM

#

also his walking was designed to be this giant hulking figure stomping, not just him

#

it would also make him much shorter

worthy rose Aug 1, 2019, 3:04 AM

#

think of how his voice line with the football skin caused heavy unbalancing where having that skin gives you an advantage bc of the delayed ult line

prisma wren Aug 1, 2019, 3:05 AM

#

sort of like the sledgehammer from john wick but scaled up by a lot

lament prawn Aug 1, 2019, 3:06 AM

#

yeah thats another good point, they dont change hitboxes for skins

peak escarp Aug 1, 2019, 3:06 AM

#

it's the same reason Pharah's skin designs have to stay heavily armored

#

she can't really have casual skins

lament prawn Aug 1, 2019, 3:06 AM

#

its why a lifeguard mercy skin wouldnt work if they’d implement it without her wings, its a huge part of her design and character

#

look at her emotes, the wings are basically immitating her

prisma wren Aug 1, 2019, 3:07 AM

#

i want more skins from different blizzard games

peak escarp Aug 1, 2019, 3:07 AM

#

yes, another set of crossover skins would be great

white cobalt Aug 1, 2019, 3:08 AM

#

The Butcher Hog was good

peak escarp Aug 1, 2019, 3:08 AM

#

I just want Brigitte as a Diablo Crusader

#

📎 crusader-d3-official-art.png

#

it's perfect

prisma wren Aug 1, 2019, 3:08 AM

#

yes

#

has blizzard ever partnered with movie companys bfore?

white cobalt Aug 1, 2019, 3:09 AM

#

That was i thought whe Brig was teased, like even her skills were similar to Crusader

worthy rose Aug 1, 2019, 3:10 AM

#

world of warcraft movie

prisma wren Aug 1, 2019, 3:19 AM

#

i saw a fanart of doomfist as thanos and it looked so good

lament prawn Aug 1, 2019, 3:20 AM

#

tbh thanos and doomfist’s goals arent too far apart

prisma wren Aug 1, 2019, 3:20 AM

#

but if that did happen it would feel weird

#

like thanos bending over?

#

not really feeling it

peak escarp Aug 1, 2019, 3:21 AM

#

I don't think that would ever happen

prisma wren Aug 1, 2019, 3:22 AM

#

ye

#

or a sofia skin for widowmaker

lament prawn Aug 1, 2019, 3:23 AM

#

i have this weird desire for opposite skins

#

talon tracer

#

overwatch widowmaker

prisma wren Aug 1, 2019, 3:24 AM

#

overwatch widowmaker would be intresting

#

bcoz she was married to whats his name

peak escarp Aug 1, 2019, 3:24 AM

#

I think that would confuse too many people

#

they already can't get the story straight, why make things worse

lament prawn Aug 1, 2019, 3:24 AM

#

lmfao

prisma wren Aug 1, 2019, 3:25 AM

#

lol

lament prawn Aug 1, 2019, 3:25 AM

#

i mean if they did it would be heavily advertised as opposite

#

but its random anyway and i dont know why i want it

prisma wren Aug 1, 2019, 3:25 AM

#

RoadhogRage a skin like this emote would be cool

#

like a burning roadhog

lament prawn Aug 1, 2019, 3:29 AM

#

i dont follow OWL at all but i was browsing the skins and there was one where tracer’s outfit was all black and her goggles and chronal accelerator were glowing red

#

i think thats what fueled the fire

prisma wren Aug 1, 2019, 3:31 AM

#

?

lament prawn Aug 1, 2019, 3:32 AM

#

overwatch league skins, you can browse the different teams’ skins in the menu of the game and buy them

#

theyre retextured versions of the default outfits

worthy rose Aug 1, 2019, 3:36 AM

#

I know I very likely am reading too much into it

#

but like

#

So I kinda wanna draw some parallels first

#

Cause otherwise I might sound like a mad man

#

Sombra was originally Olivia Colomar who worked for Los Muertos and hacked around the world until she was of course caught and found out by "The conspiracy" or as I dub it, the Sombra Illuminati

#

📎 VdwXrsO.png

#

This show's what Sombra has on the web thus far and we know that she is a member of Talon to gain insight and likely some valuable resources or access to private information that she wouldn't otherwise be able to hack or gain access herself

#

Despite ALSO knowing that there is a connection between her conspiracy and to Talon

#

The reason I bring this up now is because I was re-reading "Old Soldiers" and I had a thought which could work but there is a lot left to be vague and would also play into the pronoun game a bit of Reaper's backstory

#

📎 unknown.png

#

📎 unknown.png

#

📎 unknown.png

#

So based on that first Panel; Reaper clearly did not know that Ana was alive and the second panel mentions Jack "Not to mention HIM . Guess we old soldiers are hard to kill"

#

Which I'm taking it to mean he didn't actually know that Jack was alive.

#

However I don't think the HE and THEY referenced in the second screenshot are meant to be directed at OW and Jack specifically but instead of something else.

#

"HE did this to me, Ana." I think this is a character we have yet to see
"They left me to become this thing." I think this they might be connected not to Overwatch but to Sombra's conspiracy

#

The reason why is followed by the panel right beside it "They left you to die, they left me to suffer... Never forget that."

#

That message seems very strange for someone who would have wanted them dead especially when, if you look at it Reaper didn't really have a reason to escape or leave. Jack was down and based on Bastet's short story, the shot gun affects clearly cause necrosis of some variety and Ana while good sniper, had no real effect on him since her guns in canon seemingly don't affect him. Not to mention he had a bunch of goons set up who were also already looking to take down the "Shrike" aka Ana

#

My second reasoning to it is Reaper's former job. He was the head of the Black Ops version and this is more me reaching for straws here but I think it might be plausible that Reaper found at least something that might have been a connection to said Conspiracy. If anyone else in the world who wasn't connected to it knew about it, it would likely be Gabriel.

#

Him referencing Overwatch as the "They" that left Ana to die and to leave him to suffer just does not sound at all like the Overwatch we know today but a shadowy organization with strings in the organization and clearly had their fingers inside Overwatch? That might be said conspiracy that Reaper was getting notice of and hence like Sombra, joined Talon to find more clues. Because he really didn't have much if any other option to go.

#

And also keep in mind of how Sombra's backstory of joining Talon and Reaper Joining Talon worked

#

Sombra was a talented hacker who was caught by the conspiracy forcing her to destroy/hide her identity and used her abilities to join Talon and to be used for their purposes

#

Gabriel is a talented soldier and mercenary who was supposed to have died in the explosion in Switzerland. Then the persona of the Reaper showed up and this is what we get.

"Reyes resurfaced as a volatile mercenary known as "Reaper." His identity and motives remained unknown. Now a ruthless and remorseless killer, he was responsible for terrorist attacks throughout the world. He fought in many armed conflicts throughout the 6 years since the blast, showing no loyalty to any cause or organization."

#

Whom we now know is Gabriel Reyes and is working for Talon

half pasture Aug 1, 2019, 3:58 AM

#

I subscribe to the theory that whatever was being done to Reyes interacted badly with the explosion

worthy rose Aug 1, 2019, 3:59 AM

#

I'm trying to piece together the motive as to why he joined

#

If anyone would have at the very least gotten a hint of something amiss such as a secret illuminati pulling the strings

#

It would be Reaper

lament prawn Aug 1, 2019, 4:00 AM

#

whatever the conspiracy is, its definitely not a small obstacle and might likely be bigger than overwatch and talon, its likely theyre saving it for a big reveal either via game or movie or series or whatever

#

also its very plausible that more core characters excluding sombra are tied to it considering how big of a role its likely to play

worthy rose Aug 1, 2019, 4:01 AM

#

I'm just making the Case "What if this is how Reaper and Sombra joined Talon"

#

If we get the How which is to be two very hard to miss forces

#

Sombra being a master hacker

#

And Reaper being a talented mercenary to join Talon's radar

lament prawn Aug 1, 2019, 4:02 AM

#

did reaper out sombra for her “slip up”? if not, could this be why? them working together?

worthy rose Aug 1, 2019, 4:02 AM

#

No no they're not working together

#

in the doomfist comic he tells doom that he knows Sombra is playing a little game

#

but Reaper himself doesn't know what Sombra is particularly after

#

other than she intentionally botched the mission to kill Volskya

#

Any further things he might know about Sombra is unknown

#

I'm just trying to piece together a more or less believable reason as to why someone like Gabriel Reyes would join Talon and I think this might actually be a satisfying reason why cause logistically; they could write any reason

#

They could say he joined cause Moira brought him in

#

Or that he always hated Jack and wanted to be number one and was bitter about it

#

or any other number of reasons

#

But something like "He joined Talon cause Moira's experiments messed with his head" is a bit of a cop out and a poor writing thing that I'm sure Chu is really not wanting to take

#

Just some food for thought since Gabriel's turn from hero to bad guy really does seem to be 180 especially after everything we know that Talon did to him

lament prawn Aug 1, 2019, 4:06 AM

#

“she’s an agent because her plane conveniently malfunctioned”

#

“he’s a terrorist because his experiment conveniently malfunctioned”

worthy rose Aug 1, 2019, 4:08 AM

#

She's an agent because she got super powers and wants to do good by the world is more like it;

lament prawn Aug 1, 2019, 4:09 AM

#

yeah ill admit not the best example, i dont even have an issue with it aside from deliberate sabotage making it more interesting and personal writing-wise but perhaps unnecessary long-term plot wise

worthy rose Aug 1, 2019, 4:10 AM

#

I'd say very unnecessary because intentionally sabotaging the slip stream does no one any benefit.

lament prawn Aug 1, 2019, 4:11 AM

#

i mean, it denied overwatch a very good plane model, and pilot (if the plan were to eliminate both)

worthy rose Aug 1, 2019, 4:11 AM

#

With Reaper there is a lot more mystery there and I do think there's not enough yet and his hatred of jack or overwatch which is the current prevailing theory, isn't shown enough to make it a strong theory

#

I mean yea but the plane was experimental and there was no guarantee it would even work to begin with, and Overwatch is a famous international organization where I'm sure they can pick the finest pilots. Losing an individual pilot isn't a big loss

#

You could do a short story where Tracer is the one who sabotaged her own plane by traveling back in time to do so, so that she could have her powers

#

but that would be messy as most time travel stories with heavy focus tends to be

lament prawn Aug 1, 2019, 4:13 AM

#

okay that aside it would be rad if tracer found something out while she was lost in time

#

they dont have to deal with alternate timelines if she’s an invisible spectator that cant start a butterfly effect

worthy rose Aug 1, 2019, 4:14 AM

#

I mean so there's a couple routes in science fiction you can go with time travel

#

Butterfly effect. Anything you do when traveling back to the past can affect the present and create an entirely new time line. Say you kill hitler and now a world exists where hitler never existed.
It was always meant to be: Say events were always meant to play out a certain way and no matter what you did, it was always because it was meant to be. Say you go back in time and kill baby hitler and then leave but then the nursemaid or whoever sees a dead baby and instead hides the dead body and instead replaces it with a different baby. And that baby was hitler and was always meant to be hiter whether or not you killed it or not
There is no effect. This is more Avenger's Endgame type where you travel back in time and cause your timeline already exists, it won't be shattered or destroyed and will more or less exist as another branch on a time line that has already existed and it just created another universe/dimension. Also like Dragon ball Z with Trunks where even though he helped the Z fighter's beat the androids and Cell, it wouldn't save goku or the others from his own time line as they already were dead.

lament prawn Aug 1, 2019, 4:21 AM

#

they dont have to go into much detail - tracer could be an invisible spectator that cant change anything so that rules out butterfly effect. i was thinking more going to the future and finding a clue of some sort, or avoidable conflict

#

sure, maybe the conflict was always meant to be, but maybe her noticing it was always meant to be as well

worthy rose Aug 1, 2019, 4:21 AM

#

Also I know this is way down here but I'd like to point out

#

my theory would also kinda explain why Reaper is killing former Overwatch agents

lament prawn Aug 1, 2019, 4:21 AM

#

and it could be pre-conflict where we dont know if it even successfully happened or not, just a clue to it about to happen

worthy rose Aug 1, 2019, 4:23 AM

#

To get on Talon's Radar and be recruited
If the Sombra Conspiracy was caught on Gabriel's Radar, he might actually just be trying to weed out the ones that Left him to suffer and left Ana to die. Issue of course being he had no idea who actually in Overwatch at the time is the traitor

#

and it would also explain a couple other things

#

which you can say I'm looking into it too hard

#

Soldier is affected by Reaper's guns very negatively with his special effect but Winston who was shot with the same gun is just fine

#

He might suspect Jack of potentially being part of the Sombra Conspiracy and this tried to kill but failed
But also knew that Winston likely was not a suspect and thus played it up a bit and not outright intentionally killing winston as we see Winston has had no real negative effect despite being shot multiple times

lament prawn Aug 1, 2019, 4:25 AM

#

didnt the shots just hit his armor?

worthy rose Aug 1, 2019, 4:25 AM

#

You could also just say "Plot armor" since he is a main character but at least now it gives a in story reason

#

Jack was shot through his jacket but let me check on that armor thing to be certain

lament prawn Aug 1, 2019, 4:26 AM

#

i meant winston

#

both in the museum and recall

peak escarp Aug 1, 2019, 4:26 AM

#

Winston does wear armor

#

Jack doesn't

worthy rose Aug 1, 2019, 4:29 AM

#

What do you think about the case I brought up Doc?

peak escarp Aug 1, 2019, 4:30 AM

#

which case?

#

I was afk

worthy rose Aug 1, 2019, 4:31 AM

#

Scroll up until you see the Sombra map then that should be it; also watching the overwatch trailer in the museum, Winston does seemingly take a lot of damage from Reaper's death blossom which prompts tracer's "Come on big guy get up."

lament prawn Aug 1, 2019, 4:31 AM

#

museum, recall, his roll highlight intro where he takes direct hits to his armor

#

he’s designed to be this bullet sponge hulk

peak escarp Aug 1, 2019, 4:32 AM

#

I read all that and I still don't get what you're trying to say

#

also Tracer's "time travel" doesn't work like that

lament prawn Aug 1, 2019, 4:33 AM

#

currently she travels through only her own time but what about the “when” regarding her accident?

peak escarp Aug 1, 2019, 4:33 AM

#

she wasn't travelling in time

#

she was disconnected to the timeline, unable to sync up

#

she was phasing in and out

worthy rose Aug 1, 2019, 4:35 AM

#

My point was: Perhaps people read the Old soldier's comic wrong cause of the pronoun game.
And perhaps reaper is like Sombra in that he is hunting down for the conspiracy/Illuminati thing because that's what he believes led to his suffering and Overwatch shutting down; and like Sombra, joined Talon for the purpose of extracting or learning more potential info

lament prawn Aug 1, 2019, 4:35 AM

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i assumed the phasing out would be her going to a different time which she does confirm, but yeah i guess going to a different time in her own time would make sense (which would mean she’s merely in different locations based on where she was in the past)

peak escarp Aug 1, 2019, 4:36 AM

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@worthy rose okay? we don't really have any evidence that points toward that though

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@lament prawn what do you mean "which she does confirm"?

worthy rose Aug 1, 2019, 4:36 AM

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Doing so would explain why he's in Talon to begin with since the main reason "He hates jack and Overwatch" doesn't make sense as stated from the reasons I've listed before

lament prawn Aug 1, 2019, 4:37 AM

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@peak escarp “no one knows where or when i’d gone”

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she went to a “when”, whether its merely her just blinking/recalling without controlling it or actually going to a different global time, we dont know

peak escarp Aug 1, 2019, 4:37 AM

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she can only travel on her own timeline - the universal timeline continues forward even when she rewinds

fresh sun Aug 1, 2019, 7:19 AM

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@peak escarp yes

peak escarp Aug 1, 2019, 7:20 AM

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?

limber hawk Aug 1, 2019, 8:13 AM

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I'm surprised to see no mention of Alyssa Wong. What gives?

last inlet Aug 1, 2019, 8:14 AM

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??

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Like, here?

limber hawk Aug 1, 2019, 8:15 AM

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Yes, at least here.

last inlet Aug 1, 2019, 8:15 AM

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People have been posting about their hopes that content will get both more frequent and just better in general

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Now that she's on

limber hawk Aug 1, 2019, 8:15 AM

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She was supposed to be the lead writer.

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Omg, so people don't know?

last inlet Aug 1, 2019, 8:15 AM

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They do

limber hawk Aug 1, 2019, 8:16 AM

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She's with Marvel, now.

last inlet Aug 1, 2019, 8:16 AM

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oh wait what

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I guess no

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I don't anyway

limber hawk Aug 1, 2019, 8:17 AM

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I guess she's busy with both.

iron plume Aug 1, 2019, 11:27 AM

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Wong was never lead writer, Chu still is

limber hawk Aug 1, 2019, 12:53 PM

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Yeah, thought she was recruited as one of the lead story writers.

limpid agate Aug 1, 2019, 1:44 PM

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She was recruited as a writer

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Not the lead

limber hawk Aug 1, 2019, 2:38 PM

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Yes, I realize that, thank you.

mortal kettle Aug 1, 2019, 3:33 PM

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McCreeLUL DVaPeace DoomfistThumbsUp

devout sable Aug 1, 2019, 3:57 PM

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@worthy rose honestly, Reaper's almost certainly talking about Jack and Overwatch there

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otherwise it just looks like he's playing the pronoun game for no reason

worthy rose Aug 1, 2019, 4:07 PM

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It’s almost as if the story is written to be more vague and open ended to allow more leeway. Majority of the community a couple years ago thought Mercy was the cause of Reaper’s condition.

I’m just trying to provide a different look at it because from a character motivation perspective and the way his character has been portrayed before the persona shift to reaper, it makes little sense to hate Jack and Overwatch, to still continue hunting down it’s members even after it was gone and Jack was presumed dead. Leading me to believe there is more going on. Not to mention them highlighting He and They leads me to believe it’s an intentional misdirect.

limber hawk Aug 1, 2019, 4:11 PM

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People thought Mercy had a hand in Reaper's condition due to a fabricated interaction.

frosty shell Aug 1, 2019, 4:38 PM

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not just that

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Many people just assumed that because Reaper had clearly been influenced by malfunctioning medical tech (he was described as "a failed lab experiment"), and that Mercy was the only person with such tech we knew about, it had to have been Mercy

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And many people misinterpreted the "You tell me, Doc" interaction as well

worthy rose Aug 1, 2019, 4:39 PM

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Thats proving my point

frosty shell Aug 1, 2019, 4:40 PM

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But I don't think that was exactly intentional

limpid agate Aug 1, 2019, 4:42 PM

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I don't think the he is ambigious at all

📎 unknown.png

peak escarp Aug 1, 2019, 4:42 PM

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It is possible that he is a byproduct of failed genetic alteration which forces his cells to simultaneously decay and regenerate at a hyper-accelerated rate.

limpid agate Aug 1, 2019, 4:43 PM

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In the first two panels, its very obvious he is talking about Jack. The bolded he remains in the final panels at the bottom

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The "They" then can be filled in as Overwatch

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There is very little room for miscommunication here

worthy rose Aug 1, 2019, 4:45 PM

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At the time people came to that conclusion because it was all the information they had at the time.

Then Moira came along and cleared a lot of pieces up.

I’m saying reaper’s joining of Talon is the same thing. People assume he means jack and Overwatch because that’s all we know at the time. Because still when you look at it; his joining of Talon doesnt make much sense or at the very least has not been flushed out well enough yet to enable such a strong hatred for Overwatch and Jack to the point that he would still hunt down Overwatch agents after he assumed Jack was dead and he was alive to see that Overwatch was shut down.

At the more extreme area of my argument it’s “there is more outside forces at play here that Reaper is alluding to.” At the very least it’s “reaper’s transition as a talon member is still vague and not flushed out well enough” and for us to immediately believe that he turned because Jack was forced to bench him and thus leading to him hating Jack and Overwatch, strikes me as absurd

peak escarp Aug 1, 2019, 4:46 PM

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but he's already talking about Jack in that scene

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it wouldn't make sense for him to suddenly start talking about someone else

limpid agate Aug 1, 2019, 4:46 PM

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At the time, people came to that conclusion on misguided bases and it was already a controversial argument that lots of people (including myself) were actively arguing against

worthy rose Aug 1, 2019, 4:46 PM

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I was writing that first thing in response to Mercy’s tech before Moira and it went on from there

limpid agate Aug 1, 2019, 4:46 PM

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People assume he means jack and Overwatch because that’s all we know at the time

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Not to mention him and always took his side are very obviously Jack given the context

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There is no reason for the third he to suddenly be a different person

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That would just be bad writing

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This isnt a fandumb taking a weird vague line and playing it up in the wrong direction alongside more fake evidence and explicitly non-canon evidence

worthy rose Aug 1, 2019, 4:48 PM

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His is very much a direct wording to Jack yes. But don’t you find it the least bit strange he accuses jack of leaving him to suffer when he assumed jack was also dead?

limpid agate Aug 1, 2019, 4:48 PM

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He doesn'y say Jack left him to suffer

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He said they

worthy rose Aug 1, 2019, 4:48 PM

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Implying Jack and Overwatch

limpid agate Aug 1, 2019, 4:48 PM

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There's your different pronoun. You can argue about the they (which is also pretty obviously Overwatch in the context)

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But the he is 100% Jack

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That is not up for debate

peak escarp Aug 1, 2019, 4:48 PM

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"They left me to suffer" = "Overwatch left me to suffer"

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whether it's true or not, that's Reaper's perception of things

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he might see it as Overwatch abandoning him after the explosion, or even before that, they didn't help him with his condition and he was forced to seek out Moira

frosty shell Aug 1, 2019, 4:52 PM

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What do you think of my crazy theory that Reaper wants a new Overwatch

worthy rose Aug 1, 2019, 4:52 PM

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“They left you to die. They left me to suffer”
= they left ana to die which we know isnt true seeing that both Jack and gabe sent in people to search for her body

So I’m taking that to mean there is more here and still the suffering aspect doesnt yet make sense to me. His hatred of the organization doesn’t make sense nor has it been flushed out yet hence why I am suspecting other forces like the Sombra Conspiracy because the only other person at the time with the resources to have even potentially find out their existence would have been reaper during his blackwatch days

frosty shell Aug 1, 2019, 4:52 PM

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Reaper could be lying to Ana

peak escarp Aug 1, 2019, 4:53 PM

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he could be lying

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or he could be blaming Overwatch for not trying hard enough to find her

frosty shell Aug 1, 2019, 4:54 PM

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However, Reaper does not seem to be mad at any OW bureaucrats as far as we know, and I imagine those would be the people who restricted his search for Ana

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But that's a leap (it could easily be Sojourn or someone like that)

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I would like to see Reaper and Sojourn get into a fight in the present day

worthy rose Aug 1, 2019, 4:55 PM

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It’s possible

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I just need reaper’s story flushed out more to understand his motivations

frosty shell Aug 1, 2019, 4:56 PM

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And my theory is that Reaper wants to cause chaos, which would force the UN to recall Overwatch and give it more powers

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Reyes may've thought that after Blackwatch was cracked down on, Overwatch was ineffective

worthy rose Aug 1, 2019, 4:56 PM

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But it’s dead and most if not all of it’s branches have been shut off and if he really wanted that then why is he killing former Overwatch agents

frosty shell Aug 1, 2019, 4:57 PM

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Killing former OW agents would make people think "maybe we need Overwatch again"

peak escarp Aug 1, 2019, 4:57 PM

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he's probably killing them to prevent Overwatch from coming back at full strength

worthy rose Aug 1, 2019, 4:58 PM

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But if you kill off a good chunk of the heroes then there’s not really gonna be someone to take their place. And as far as we know, Talon just views new overwatch as an annoyance

frosty shell Aug 1, 2019, 4:58 PM

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OW would likely recruit new members

worthy rose Aug 1, 2019, 4:58 PM

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They were already trying to kill former agents when reaper showed up in Gibraltar to steal the overwatch data

peak escarp Aug 1, 2019, 4:58 PM

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were they?

limpid agate Aug 1, 2019, 4:58 PM

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Speaking of which

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I don't like that part of WYLB

peak escarp Aug 1, 2019, 4:59 PM

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I thought the target there was just to steal the data, not to kill Winston

limpid agate Aug 1, 2019, 4:59 PM

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Where it revealed that everyone has access to the Recall info

frosty shell Aug 1, 2019, 4:59 PM

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Yeah that's weird

limpid agate Aug 1, 2019, 4:59 PM

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That renders the entire point of the mission irellevant

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Because Talon has ex-Overwatch agents in it who would have received the Recall, and therefor, info on agent positions

worthy rose Aug 1, 2019, 4:59 PM

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Good point

peak escarp Aug 1, 2019, 5:00 PM

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but Talon couldn't have known that Winston would send out that information

worthy rose Aug 1, 2019, 5:00 PM

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Maybe it’s only pieces and parts?

limpid agate Aug 1, 2019, 5:00 PM

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No they couldn't

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But having the decision that the Recall would play right into their goals anyways

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Feels pointless

peak escarp Aug 1, 2019, 5:00 PM

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so it just makes Reaper's mission redundant

limpid agate Aug 1, 2019, 5:01 PM

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And its not like a predicted win-win scenario where either "we win" or "you win in a way that favours us"

peak escarp Aug 1, 2019, 5:01 PM

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unless there's more information in the files that Reaper got than was released with the Recall message

limpid agate Aug 1, 2019, 5:01 PM

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Its a "we lost, but by random chance we somehow won anyways"

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"In a manner neither of us could have predicted"

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Recall at least gives the agents:

Name
Face
Position

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And it might not be all agents

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But its at least important ones like Mercy

worthy rose Aug 1, 2019, 5:02 PM

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Speaking of

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That’s a bit odd isnt it?

limpid agate Aug 1, 2019, 5:02 PM

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Yes. There is 0 reason for Mercy to not have a hitsquad on her ass.

peak escarp Aug 1, 2019, 5:02 PM

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maybe the data Reaper got contains more personal information, like home address or next of kin

limpid agate Aug 1, 2019, 5:02 PM

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If we get some comic or short thats months after Recall

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And Mercy was not attacked yet

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I'm gonna call BS

worthy rose Aug 1, 2019, 5:03 PM

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If Overwatch is shut down, why would they still be keeping track of where the agents are?

limpid agate Aug 1, 2019, 5:03 PM

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Oh that's what you meant

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I thought you meant more like.

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Mercy has her info publically revealed to Talon thanks to the Recall.

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And she's waiting for Deus Ex Baptiste to come in and help her before Talon shows up to eliminate her.

worthy rose Aug 1, 2019, 5:06 PM

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But really why is Overwatch the now defunct organization still keeping track of it’s agents?

peak escarp Aug 1, 2019, 5:07 PM

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it's probably just Winston keeping track of people because he's an optimist and thinks the world will need Overwatch again some day

worthy rose Aug 1, 2019, 5:08 PM

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But I’m very sure Winston also knows that’s probably not okay. To keep constant tabs of your former coworkers like that to the point you know where they are 5 years down the line

hazy vortex Aug 1, 2019, 5:56 PM

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Its not a normal occupation though is it

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So it is justifiable to keep tabs on former agents