I'm not saying like that
#lore-discussion
gentle token
The same people who think sex is the only part of a relationship
hardy stone
gentle token
Lol
hasty surge
When you are in live there is an emotional attraction and a sexual attraction
So his question is kinda vaild
Tho he did asked it in a rather crude way
spice grove
well i mean yes... 'cause then what, only asexual people can date omnics and have all the boxes checked
regal coyote
if you ask me, the omnic's romance is just them faking it to blend in, or they "think" they need romance
they probably need soem companionship as a more smart robot yes.
same goes with them wearing human clothes and what not
peak escarp
a lot of people do the same thing
worthy rose
You can blend in without faking romance.
spice grove
wearing human clothes as a human also helps
worthy rose
i want a hero completely unclothed
worthy rose
ill be willing to settle on a thong
foggy notch
Theres an album from lucio released by blizzard. Are there other things related to overwatch that was released ?
Whats that?
worthy rose
Except his sword's sheath!
limpid agate
@foggy notch No, just Lucios album
They made a full version of the pop song from Mei's short, but didn't release it.
foggy notch
@limpid agate thanks bud, ure the only guy who makes sense here!
limpid agate
đź‘Ť
peak escarp
gee thanks
foggy notch
@peak escarp u 2 doc
peak escarp
I try
desert yacht
i'd be down for a lore keeper role for doc and jewv, doubt they'd make a role like that for only a few people though
cunning ledge
There’s already an active lore user role
Not sure how many people have it in total though
Jewvia is also literally a moderator already
teal meadow
Did they add any new interactions between the characters after the aniversary update?
regal coyote
i see like 4 people having it right in this convo though :3
But that aside, on naked heroes, most omnic are lightly clad, same goes for genji
Sraly omnic wearing human skin would be just for funsies, they dont need them
I mean human clothing not skin, that would be scary af
Though that spider lady design originally might be that.
But Bastion dont wear a thing except maybe a bird nest
so yeah.
I do think some omnic wear stuff to blend in. and we see lots of them
but not sure if it is something required
unkempt trail
Clothing for omnics would be a social agreement for them as a race to make themselves more "humanized" (read: approachable, relatable)
As in, you maybe won't hate the robot-man that much if he's wearing a t-shirt with, say, a band you like
cunning ledge
you mean this guy?
regal coyote
@hot frigate things like bastion is hard to integrate anyways, they are not taht human shape relatively, so did orisa
but efi did spice orisa up with some decorations, to make her look mroe friendly
THAT GUY is probably just trying to hide, i think he would have a hoodie or soemthing
but he is probably bad enough of a nam where everyone is hunting for him
devout sable
still not a big fan of the jaw and the Reaper-like appearance tbh
unkempt trail
I think he'll look distinct enough once we see his full body
unkempt trail
Hi
foggy notch
Retribution brings back so many memories. And also starts the disbanding of OW
Question, in the end of the mission, theres mccree lookin through the window at Reyes who is in debriefing.
There is ana, jack, reyes and one other guy with a black suit
Who is he?
half pasture
nah the guy at the end of retribution not storm rising
worthy rose
who?
half pasture
Question, in the end of the mission, theres mccree lookin through the window at Reyes who is in debriefing.
There is ana, jack, reyes and one other guy with a black suit`
did you not read their question at all?
also pretty sure that's Widow's dead husband
worthy rose
oh gerald
no thats at the start
you said at the end
oh yeah
my apologies lol
Yep, it's Gerard LaCroix, leader of anti-Talon operations in Overwatch.
yeah
you reckon the person at the end of Stormrising IS Gerald?
worthy rose
ahh okay
Wait, storm rising?
who do you think it is
We don't know that guy
New character.
half pasture
Also like, Doomfist's whole speech to the mystery guy only makes sense if he's an omnic
worthy rose
yeah but like what are your theories
worthy rose
yeah
half pasture
plus he's purple
half pasture
but we'll find out eventually
iron plume
he's definitely an omnic
worthy rose
the honeydew one
iron plume
the NS is speculation
half pasture
yeah
we know nothing beyond what he looks like, that he's an omnic, and doomfist talks about how he fights for his people
worthy rose
yep
half pasture
but talon will help him really change the world
also the newspapers in Havana mention null sector
that's the other reason I suspect Null Sector
peak escarp
they seem to be telling us the story of the fall of Overwatch through the Archives missions, so unless we get to the Swiss HQ before next Archives, I expect the next mission to be something around that time period
worthy rose
Fingers crossed the next Archives has new assets. They recycled Talon once already.
peak escarp
the story of OW is Overwatch vs. Talon
of course they're going to use Talon again
there aren't any other groups that would work for PvE missions
new units would be nice, but I fully expected them to use the same Talon units as Retribution
worthy rose
I mean you could
Talon is a main terrorist organization but it's not the only bad thing in the world of overwatch
peak escarp
unless they give us new enemies that we haven't seen before (like how Null Sector was new before Uprising)
worthy rose
We know Haiti was in a pretty rough spot and Baptiste had to do some awful things. The shimada clans had their own thing going on in Japan, etc... Not every conflict old overwatch fought had to involve Talon
peak escarp
okay, so they give us some random conflict between Blackwatch and the Shimadas - people will throw a fit because it has nothing to do with the main plot
worthy rose
I disagree. Lore development is lore development. Learning more about the infamous Shimada clan, which we so far know so little about, would be a welcome surpr9
peak escarp
I agree with that - I was actually hoping for the Blackwatch mission against the Shimadas, ever since Gaku told me Genji was important in this year's Archives.
I just know what the community is like
they are constantly demanding that the story should move forward
the non-Lore community don't care for worldbuilding, they just want plot
devout sable
the Cairo incident is unlikely to be an Archives event – it seems too small for that
unless they're planning to go with some Uprising-style back-and-forth
iron plume
as in the map
peak escarp
they could make a new map
nimble hatch
what country is baptiste from?
worthy rose
Haiti.
nimble hatch
k
peak escarp
I'd love to see the Cairo Incident as an Archives mission
might be a good chance to have Jack and Ana as playable
provided they can explain why she heals (or give her a special kit just for that event)
solar socket
what is the cario incedent @peak escarp
peak escarp
it's when Overwatch shut down the Anubis Project about 8 years ago
Ana mentions it in Bastet, and you can see it listed on the screen in Morrison's office in Uprising
kinda feel bad for Morrison
he was under a lot of stress at that point
peak escarp
no wonder he wasn't answering Sojourn's calls
I think so
it fits the timeline of when Gerard would have been murdered
hasty surge
Did Sojourn mention that Gerald wasn't replying her in Storm Rising
Also the offical must have been of an high enough position to appear on the news
peak escarp
Gerard wasn't mentioned in Storm Storm Rising
I meant Jack wasn't answering her calls
peak escarp
unknown
he was probably reassigned to Overwatch proper once Blackwatch was suspended
fringe blade
Was Blackwatch legal or not? This is really dumb but I have a brain fart
peak escarp
I dont think it was legal
what they did certainly wasn't legal
and once they were exposed the UN launched an inquiry into Overwatch
foggy notch
Well blackwatch was supposed to gather intelligence as in Uprising when the payload starts moving, Reyes says: intelligence gathered by blackwatch. They weren't suppose to eliminate anyone or at least they should've done it silently.
Something wonders me, Genji could've finished Antonio easy and quietly, why did Reyes shoot him?
half pasture
Because he basically did it on impulse
he didn't spend time thinking about how best to kill him, just decided "fuck it, I'm going to kill him"
foggy notch
Well a normal person would do that, not the head of Blackwatch. I mean he was the chief for some reason, there should be a difference between those in charge and normal guys
hasty surge
Plus Antonio was being cheeky with him
foggy notch
Well thats exactly what I mean
If he's that dumb and has no control over himself, why would he be the head of blackwatch?
worthy rose
Some people think Moira's treatment did that.
half pasture
even smart people make mistakes
worthy rose
Side effects.
half pasture
People don't 100% make the best smartest move every time
foggy notch
Exactly, there shouldve been some programs or training to get these people under control in certain moments.
limpid agate
You don't need to ping every time
half pasture
Apparently it's bad that Reyes did something entirely within his character because he should be smarter and do exactly the best smartest thing ever
foggy notch
But the thing is he's the head of blackwatch, and thats a dumb move for a chief
limpid agate
Reyes has been theatrical in every mission we've seen him in.
limpid agate
Retribution, Recall, The Exhibit, Infiltration
He's consistently theatrical and making a big deal about his hits
foggy notch
Well that mistake lead to destroying both overwatch and blackwatch! So thats not an ordinary mistake people may commit
limpid agate
If they're important people
half pasture
plus like, people always doing the most optimal thing every time is bad writing
Yes! THAT'S THE POINT!
limpid agate
The other thing is, the other options are worse
half pasture
Reyes is out of control
limpid agate
You shoot him on the spot vs taking him into custody and silently assassinating him
foggy notch
Listen I was wondering why genji couldnt have finish antonio off?
limpid agate
The latter would be quieter but dirtier
foggy notch
No custody thingy
half pasture
because Reyes shot him on a whim
foggy notch
I mean genji is a monster at that time, why wouldn't he finish him off
limpid agate
He didn't have time to tell Genji "kill him"
half pasture
because reyes didn't think about the best option, he shot him on a whim
foggy notch
Not a quick react to Genji though
limpid agate
He didn't choose to assassinate him until that conversation
There was no silent code for Genji to take him out because that wasn't part of the plan
fringe blade
I actually wonder, was Antonio expecting to die or not? He seemed really calm and everything, but I guess he might've not been expecting that they would go so far as kill him
half pasture
plus like, reyes gives that order McCree is going to argue against it
limpid agate
Which is why Reyes killed him
There is less room for debate and error if you just kill him yourself
Rather than spontaneously tell a member of your team to kill him
half pasture
and again, this is all probably more thinking than Reyes himself did
foggy notch
Anyways these are just options available, we can brag about it all day but nothin would change lol, just wanted to have a different point of view!
half pasture
Because Reyes is impulsive and dramatic
limpid agate
There is nothing wrong with Reaper killing Antonio loudly with a shotgun
half pasture
it is exactly what reyes as a character would do
limpid agate
Overwatch has many errors and places where people do stupid things that make no sense
That is not one of them
foggy notch
Well that one lead to destroying both organizations!
limpid agate
Ok, so.
foggy notch
And how could Talon recruit a guy like him knowing the choices he made in the past?
foggy notch
Reyes I meant
peak escarp
Reyes isn't impulsive
limpid agate
After Blackwatch shutdown, many of its agents joined Talon.
Likewise, Reyes wants to kill ex-Overwatch agents
So does Talon
peak escarp
that was an out of character action for him to take
limpid agate
They have a common goal
foggy notch
For all I know its just reyes from the top 4
limpid agate
McCree's comic Train Hopper shows that Blackwatch agents joined Talon
One recognizes him personally
foggy notch
Oh yea I know that scene
peak escarp
even as Reaper, he insists on sticking to plans
limpid agate
Baptiste also indicates other paramilitary organizations that went under did the same
Such as his Caribbean Coalition.
foggy notch
@peak escarp how would u say he's not impulsive? Id like to know ur idea
peak escarp
theres voice lines that point to him making plans and sticking to them
limpid agate
Sombra: Look, someone has to be ready when all your careful planning doesn't pan out.
Everything's going according to plan, keep up the defense.
foggy notch
In the whole retribution story we're just hearing mccree sayin that was not the plan!
peak escarp
and in the Retribution comic, McCree wants to go shoot Antonio, but Reyes wants to kidnap him
they planned to kidnap him and interrogate him
Antonio knew Reyes planned to kidnap him, that's why he was so confident
Reyes shooting him in the face was an uncharacteristic impulse move
thanks for the lines Jewvia
foggy notch
Still there's something that wonders me. In the beginning of the cinematic for retribution story. I guess its mccree saying: an overwatch facility was attacked, their hands were tied, but blackwatch plays by its own rules..
What does he mean by "its own rules"
peak escarp
they couldn't legally go after Antonio
Blackwatch operates illegally, so they dont have to worry about getting permission
foggy notch
Hmm interesting
What's all about the discussions between mccree and reyes in all that mission
They obviously dont share a point of view
Like they both say "i'm getting shot at" like two kids!
Or when the plane is comin to get them Reyes says just turn around!
How could two people with these differences even operate together!
peak escarp
aside from that first bit, Reyes is in control of the mission
his lines show confidence
McCree's lines are a bit childish, but he's got valid complaints
Reyes went off script and put their lives in jeopardy - McCree is rightfully upset
Reyes is someone he trusts, someone who has been his mentor for a decade
on any other mission, they'd be getting along fine
foggy notch
Thanks doc and also jewia who doesnt like gettin mentions!! Lol
Ive got another question, why are Genji's eyes red in the beginning of Retribution mission but pale and brown in Dragons Cinematic?
peak escarp
aesthetic
desert yacht
sorry this is really late, but i don't think ana healing even before she got the rifle in the event would be a problem. Winston has his bubble in storm rising which he developed around recall
then again, winston's bubble isn't as big a deal as ana's healing which is the core of her playstyle
peak escarp
how do we know Winston built his shield generator around Recall?
desert yacht
good point
peak escarp
he could have just been testing a new version of it
desert yacht
maybe he was just fixing it
or that
but mercy's rez isn't even canon and it's in 2 events
peak escarp
that's gameplay for you
desert yacht
that's why i'm saying it probably wouldn't even matter
as long as they don't show them in cutscenes it should be fine
another issue would be soldier's rockets
he didn't have those as jack morrison
an original strike team mission just wouldn't work if they wanted gameplay to be lore valid
all 3 of the original commanders have been loaded with new stuff
peak escarp
he got the experimental pulse rifle
desert yacht
so the rockets didn't come with the pulse rifle?
peak escarp
idk
desert yacht
i'm thinking they did, where would jack have been able to incorporate them in
peak escarp
I would assume so
but we still don't know what weapons Jack used before
the pulse rifle was an Overwatch design - maybe it was being designed for him (and that's why he knew where to find it)
desert yacht
but 8 years ago?
peak escarp
what about 8 years ago?
desert yacht
he wouldn't have had a rifle like that 8 years ago
peak escarp
why not?
desert yacht
it was still experimental
even when overwatch was shutting down
years before that he'd have that same weapon?
desert yacht
the helix rockets sound like they would be a new upgrade
also do we know anything about the biotic field in lore?
besides that it used mercy's tech (i think that's canon?)
peak escarp
it seems to use biotic tech, yes
same as what's in Ana's bullets/grenade
and Moira's juice
desert yacht
i'm glad the comics are coming back
they'll provide a lot of good worldbuilding hopefully
peak escarp
they usually do
I hope they're going for a longer format
at the beginning of 2018 they said they wanted to make longer comics
teal meadow
Is there any info about what comes after the aniversary? is there some convention where they might show a short just like last year?
hasty surge
A new hero
worthy rose
Ya reckon they might add the Queen
teal meadow
i hope this is just shitpost trying to be funny
chrome magnet
i hope so
worthy rose
ye
hallow vessel
Its an odd detail that in the newest anrchives even (storm rising) the strike team crashes Maximllion's car, but it is still there 6 years later. I wonder if that was on purpose.
Also another detail about the storm rising event thats odd is the fact the the strike team yuse the same skins. For Mercy it makes sense as the valkery suit is her combat uniform, but overall it seems odd as there was a set uniform that the strike team was wearing in the orignal archives event. Its proboably just that blizzard didn't want to make more skins for Mercy, Genji or tracer, but i do want a lore explaination.
worthy rose
welp welcome to #lore-discussion
peak escarp
I think the lore explanation would be that those are their "casual" team uniforms, and the blue that they wore for Uprising were "formal" uniforms because they were trying to make a good impression
frosty shell
they had the same skins in the Doomfist one too
peak escarp
also Max's car still being there might be weird, but you know what else is weird? Leonora Bottruvio still having her art show 8 years later.
teal meadow
You can't change genji's body because in the lore would be dumb.
Like he is a cyborg.... he is stuck in that body
It's not like he can change the design every day
worthy rose
Yeah
cunning ledge
I always assumed that part of the reason he's wearing clothes there is that his full body wasn't finished yet
he might even still have a mostly human right arm, it's hard to tell
peak escarp
that art is wrong in other ways, it could be wrong about Genji too
worthy rose
In his blackwatch days his arm his right arm is intact
So maybe...
This was before blackwatch, and that's why its a little unfamiliar
Gtg
Wait no mccree came in blackwatch, right? so....
limpid agate
What
McCree had his arms during his time in Blackwatch. He quit approximately 6 years ago, some time after Uprising and probably before Strom Rising. He lost his arm sometime after Uprising
peak escarp
they meant Genji
peak escarp
only that he might be the leader of Null Sector
cunning ledge
running theory is Null Sector, based off the purple chin and the fact he's near where anubis was
limpid agate
As well as the context from the speech and the random Null Sector newspapers that came with Havana
cunning ledge
possibly a leader or high ranking agent of null sector, sent to negotiate with talon for a mutual benefit
there's a lot of ways it could go
he definitely looks like he could be a hero in the future
proud lynx
I have a question, is Ana aware that her husband is still alive or not?
peak escarp
Pharah: Mum, don't you think it's time you told Sam you're alive?
Ana: You let me worry about what your father needs to know.
why would Ana think Sam was dead?
worthy rose
Oh yeah
peak escarp
Sam thinks Ana is dead
and Pharah hasn't answered Ana's letters
Sam thinks Ana is dead
Sam thinks Ana is dead
Sam thinks Ana is dead
worthy rose
But Ana knows Sam is alive... Probably
peak escarp
why wouldn't he be alive?
worthy rose
Well just the way she talks in the little talk with pharah kind of shows
peak escarp
or why would she think he wasn't alive?
olive magnet
She knows he's alive
hot frigate
w t f
limpid agate
Yeah I think you're confused
Ana faked her death 6 years ago
Sam and Pharah thought she was dead
Before Bastet, she told Pharah she was alive with a letter
She hasn't told Sam yet
She hasn't told Sam yet
There is no reason to think Sam is dead. She just hasn't told him that she is alive.
worthy rose
hm...... 🤔
high thunder
ana is the most interesting person in overwatch lore
worthy rose
I'd argue that Reaper is better.
Slightly longer backstory involving more people, quite a bit of remaining mystery, current activity relevant to the main plot.
AY ZIPPPPPPPPPP
limpid agate
!!shitposting @worthy rose
twilit nacelleBOT
@worthy rose Shitposting will result in a loss of access.
worthy rose
alright, I am sorry, I apology!
sterile oriole
noice
who is your favirote charecter who the best orgin story
mine is genj
genji*
anybody
calm patio
whhat is null sector?
and mine is genji 2
reaper, is just reaper. i guess his consciense is just different from most people and hes moody as a teenage boy and i guess thats why he killed antinio, and then shit went dwon the house
maybe moira did something with reaper, idk
like, with his mental
worthy rose
What are the odds that Reaper is a triple agent working for the good guys? Extremely low?
calm patio
HMMMMMMMM
devout sable
@calm patio Null Sector is an omnic extremist group with the goal of carving out an omnic nation
@worthy rose basically non-existent
worthy rose
That explanation for Reaper's current actions is like saying someone became a serial killer because they got a cold. Sure, those are problems, but they don't adequately explain why he went from leading Blackwatch to killing off ex-Overwatch agents.
It's likely that Moira did something to Reyes which made him more likely to kill Antonio, but I seriously doubt that she could have caused him to completely turn around and start killing all his friends.
half pasture
furthermore we know he blames overwatch for what happened to him and not Moira
which is kind of confusing
worthy rose
and he's a council member.
They wouldn't let him lead anything important if he were mentally altered by Moira.
limpid agate
@half pasture Depends on what the blame is for
The shadows, or something else
The shadows may not be the root of his blame, perhaps just a byproduct, or even the solution
peak escarp
I do think Moira's work on him affected his impulse control, which led him to kill Antonio
but I don't think she intended for that to happen
it was just a side effect
it's not like she's mind controlling him
hasty surge
Is it correct to say reyes himself is hot blooded originally
Or was he a calm leader?
peak escarp
no
he's a very calculated leader
made plans and followed them through
even as Reaper, he likes to plan things out
that's why impulse-killing Antonio is such a big deal
hasty surge
He did pause a while to think before killing Antonio though
peak escarp
for like half a second
Morrison is the one more likely to go off script and make things up as he goes along
hasty surge
it doesn't seem that he had a plan beyond capturing antonio and hold him up for a couple of hours
hasty surge
Not very well thought out for that mission
willow carbon
and pretty sick of commanding overwatch dudes like morrison
peak escarp
kidnapping Antonio was the plan
he even told McCree in the comic that rushing in and killing him was a bad plan, that they needed to get information out of Antonio
hasty surge
The countries antonio is in cahoots with, will demand his release
peak escarp
peak escarp
yes
hasty surge
So why the switch
calm patio
ya, ^
peak escarp
because Reyes made a plan to kidnap Antonio, and convinced McCree that they needed him alive
calm patio
.... but then killed
hasty surge
Even genji was okay with what reyes was doing
solemn pike
Still shot his ass off
peak escarp
for Reyes to suddenly go back on that plan was very out of character, and put McCree and the others in danger
solemn pike
Lul
peak escarp
McCree objects to making a plan and then throwing it all away
calm patio
genji is more of the folling type though
peak escarp
Genji . . . Genji is just there to be a weapon
he's not even sure who their target was
hasty surge
He does
calm patio
reecent
peak escarp
he does speak English, just not very well/has a strong accent
solemn pike
Maybe the change of mind is a side effect of Moira's experiments
hasty surge
Or maybe it's just bad writing
solemn pike
Him slowly becoming more and more like reaper we know now
hasty surge
And he wasn't aware?
hasty surge
So moria fixed the impulsiveness?
peak escarp
people undergoing experimental treatments rarely know what the side effects are until they happen
solemn pike
@peak escarp also remember that when Reyes killed Antonio, Moira was smirking in the background...
peak escarp
I saw it more as, she was surprised by the action but satisfied to see a result
solemn pike
Possible
calm patio
so it ligit seems as if it all points to moira
solemn pike
I think that
peak escarp
peak escarp
there's a bit of a smirk, but I don't think she planned Antonio's death - she's just interested in Reyes' changed behavour
solemn pike
I think Moira also plays a huge role in the fall of overwatch
peak escarp
also bonus Genji ready to throw down
worthy rose
Yeah me too
solemn pike
Killing Antonio was the first blow
willow carbon
maybe she just likes the violence
calm patio
os she might have thought job well done
willow carbon
shes just an inherently not moral person
solemn pike
When Ana "died" is when things really went downwards
willow carbon
so of course shes smiling
yeah i feel like ana brokered peace between reyes and morrison
peak escarp
Moira might have played a part in Ana's "death" as well
worthy rose
Probably
peak escarp
if she was the one responsible for Widowmaker's genetic alterations
solemn pike
Its widow that did that
calm patio
...
solemn pike
But widow might have been made the way she is by Moira
calm patio
no i thought it was talon that slowed heart
peak escarp
yes
worthy rose
Yeah...
peak escarp
and Moira was working with Talon
worthy rose
That is a maybe
peak escarp
the Talon units during Retribution had genetic enhancements similar to Reaper's
solemn pike
Moira was likely already with talon when she was working for blackwatch
peak escarp
those could have only come from Moira
worthy rose
peak escarp
pretty much
calm patio
...
solemn pike
Possibly
peak escarp
she goes where people want her work and are willing to pay for it
worthy rose
So talon...
peak escarp
Blackwatch, Talon, Oasis
calm patio
if doomfists gualet can raze skyscrapers, explain how it cant one shot orisa
solemn pike
Her main reason being with talon is so she can do her science stuff without consequences
solemn pike
It all links together I think
hasty surge
Doonfist wants evolution conflict
solemn pike
I think there is one person or entity behind everyhing
calm patio
then moira could help
runnong down experiments
for eveloution confilct
or at least lower the collateral damage by creating something that could evolve withought conflict
calm patio
moiras a mystery
worthy rose
And might be behind Ana's "death"
calm patio
i wish they had an event where the players try to find the escaped winstons (the smartass monkeys from the lunar base)/kill the winstons
solemn pike
That wouldn't make sense
worthy rose
Yeah that would be interesting but nonsensical
solemn pike
Those are potential new heroes in OW
calm patio
HMM, next patch we see 30 different heroes all monkeys btw
becuase the base only had monkeys and hammond
limpid agate
The only other animal on Horizon that can conceivably be a potential leader is Simon
calm patio
maybe a monkey king thats lt spawns the smart monks
limpid agate
He was the leader of their revolt
And we do know the reason
"No more experiments"
worthy rose
Maybe a event where they help round up unfinished projects in the colony
calm patio
wait, so simon could be a knew hero, and his ult spawned dem monkeys
limpid agate
That makes no sense.
Simon will not be a hero
He's just the only one with a greater than 0.001% chance
worthy rose
Gtg
calm patio
max is interesting
solemn pike
It's still a good possibility if this lore will ever fucking get anywhere
limpid agate
Its not a good possibility. There are more important things then a senseless moon wrangle
calm patio
no remorse
calm patio
wiat, was he with the retrbution squad before zen?
limpid agate
He was still not at peace with himself, and it seems like only Angela was his anchor to not killing everything.
solemn pike
Yes
limpid agate
Retribution was 8 years ago
calm patio
tru
peak escarp
yes
limpid agate
Storm Rising was 6 years ago
calm patio
^
solemn pike
That's why he was such a nut
limpid agate
Zenyatta was after he left Overwatch, and met him sometime in the past 5 years
limpid agate
That was Mondatta.
solemn pike
That's mondatta
solemn pike
He kinda was zen's leader/teacher/buddy whatever
solemn pike
Then he left for some reason
limpid agate
The Shambali was too dogmatic
Zenyatta wanted to help people through actions rather than words.
calm patio
in a match i heard some interesting dialouge with zen and orisa, asking zen about teaching her something
or joining somehting
solemn pike
Maybe that's why he questions if he's still welcome there when you play as him on Nepal
Orisa wants to learn about the iris
And wants zen to be her teacher
calm patio
what is the iris
solemn pike
I think that's their God or something
calm patio
is it just me or are teh strom rising and retrbution so much easier than the last playble lore even thingy?
solemn pike
The iris is hinted to be really important in the lore of OW
solemn pike
@limpid agate take a look at sombra's conspiracy
limpid agate
You don't know that's the Iris
calm patio
sombras conspiracy?
solemn pike
limpid agate
That's just speculation that they are linked
solemn pike
That shot is why I think sombra is going to be the one to find out the truth behind everything
She's already onto something
calm patio
then what'
from the amount of info does her brain ezzplode?
or chooses to join the "good guys"
peak escarp
why does there need to be a truth behind everything?
calm patio
idk
peak escarp
Sombra thinks there is, because that's the way she thinks
but what if there isn't anything pulling all the strings
limpid agate
Assuming they are the same entity
There may be no conspiracy at all
Sombra thinks something is controlling the world.
The Shambali think something is to be worshipped
peak escarp
she could have just panicked and erased her identity because she's paranoid
and thought there was a threat when really it was just a neutral observer
calm patio
hmmm
peak escarp
I think Sombra and the Shambali saw the same thing, but it isn't what either of them think it is
calm patio
how about the thing controlling everything found out about sombra
and then will eleminate her so she doesnt get in his/her/there way
peak escarp
I think it's not a god, and it's not controlling everything - it's just an observer
calm patio
interesting
but if sombra was that good of a hccker coldnt she technically observe EVERYTHING and then instead of just observing, combra could DO stuff about it?
peak escarp
Sombra thought it was the thing that controls the world because if she had that kind of power, that's what she would do
calm patio
tru
she knows that knowledge is power
if you knew everything in the world
you could blackmaill anyone
worthy rose
if I knew everything, I'd leak the lore so we could actually get some headway here.
:^)
tardy ferry
No spoilers please.
As for the "iris thing" I do believe shimbali and sombra sees the same thing.
What would Sombra do if she have such power though
She is not really the tyrant type.
And Her actions are rather neutral in the end. Selfish actions aside she seem to actually make things better.
cedar yacht
How much human is left in sombra?
Like, how many transplants and augmentations has she had
limpid agate
Invisibility? She has a full bodysuit.
Translocate? She is using stolen Overwatch technology. She adapted plans from Tracer's Chronal Harness, which is neither a transplant or an augmentation.
smoky rose
i wish when people stacked, they would be forced to go into the game chat
last inlet
Well that's not lore
peak escarp
I wish when people posted, they would realize which channel they were in
tawny patio
That’s rough buddy
tardy ferry
For Sombra upgrades, it is probably the spine thing, and maybe something that goes to her brain.
Her equipment is likely connected to this spine system.
And yes her outfit give optical invis.
Translocator is borrowed from a modified tech from winston, probably from data used on the Tracer thing.
It is supposedly not perfect and may cause headache or dizzyness?
cunning ledge
Her invisibility move used to be called Thermoptic Camo or something but now it’s just called Stealth
Kinda sad because it sounded cool but it didn’t make a whole lot of sense
worthy rose
hi
quasi kettle
Well it did kinda make sense because she would be invisible to optics/sight and thermo/heat sensors which would make sense for her being to sneak into Volskya industry’s seeing that they probably had heat sensors on the cameras
hasty surge
Nahh she isn't invisible to Widow's infra sight and Hanzo's sonic arrows
quasi kettle
Well widows infra sight I don’t know how that works but Hanzo’s sonic arrows use sound to detect people like echo location so even though she is invisible to the eye the sound waves detect her but infra sight don’t know how that sees her
hasty surge
It's possible that she is visible but she just blends into the surroundings (like a chameleon)
So it's as tho you are seing through her
worthy rose
I don’t think hanzo has cybernetic implants
Also remember ladies and gents
Gameplay doesn’t always equal lore
unkempt trail
"Infra" is basically infra-red
Might be that Sombra can't hide herself from infra-red vision
frosty shell
My headcanon is that Reaper thinks he was always crazy
and thus doesn't blame Moira for his turn mentally
desert hawk
If you emp her stuff, would it not work and cause her to be visible?
cunning ledge
probably?
I don't think EMP technology is even confirmed to exist, if you don't count the King's Row payload
desert hawk
Yeah,
worthy rose
Reaper
unkempt trail
EMP tech is available in today's times, no reason a sci-fi setting wouldn't have it
worthy rose
In-game, an invis Sombra getting EMP'd won't decloak.
Which come to think of it doesn't make a whole lot of sense
upper plume
she cloaks from MAGIC
unkempt trail
Some of the hacking interactions don't make any sense but are there for gameplay reasons
peak escarp
it's not magic
peak escarp
Sombra wouldn't be able to hack someone like McCree or Soldier, who have no technology on them, but she could completely disable Genji or Orisa
iron plume
no technology
the fuck is mccree's arm made of then
plus soldier's got his visor and shit
but otherwise he'd be unaffected yes
peak escarp
well
depends if there's a computer in a cybernetic arm
but even then, I'm sure McCree could still fight pretty well one-handed
iron plume
i'm pretty sure she doesn't need that
obviously you would to "hack" but she can just overload circuits and make it useless
but he'd still be able to fight assuming it's not massively painful
there's definitely electric conduits in it because that's how you'd control such an implant
but if we're making that distinction, genji's might actually be the same too
just more intricate
you technically don't need any computer to control those things if you've got the brain and connections to it
peak escarp
but there would need to be processors to interpret the brainwaves into mechanical function
I suppose she could hack those
iron plume
not really
it's easier
peak escarp
invert the inputs, so left is right and up is down
iron plume
but if you try hard enough and are precise enough you can plug in the correct nerves to the correct wires and let the brain do the work
my point is anything that would work with cree's arm would also work with genji's body
just be bigger and more complex
the left is right thing is already handled by our brain
it basically just sends electric signals
realistically you wouldn't do that because it'd require you to connect 1000s of endings in the exact same way they were
and would instead make a processor to interpret more high level commands
but you'd do that with an arm too
peak escarp
Sombra is just overpowered in the game compared to what she can actually do in the lore
iron plume
Sombra's underpowered in combat
on a master power level scale I'd argue she's got the more important skill
and even then I'd say it's more like she's less consistent rather than straight up weaker
her hacking is completely useless against some opponents but will completely shut down others
calm patio
cough cough rien
peak escarp
since Crusader armor seems to be power armor, do you think it would have an onboard computer (think Iron Man)?
calm patio
if sombra was in the marvel universe, she would be op. hack the infinity gaulet (bcuase if she can hack mcree from focusing (high noon)) and then beat the shiz out of iron man
and im refraining from profanity bcuase at school
peak escarp
that's not how hacking works
calm patio
mhm. but how does she hack mcrees deadeye, but not soldiers aimbot
peak escarp
Sombra wouldn't be able to hack McCree in the lore
calm patio
i thought mcree was part robot
peak escarp
that's just for gameplay balance/consistency
limpid agate
He has a prosthetic arm
calm patio
that could explain the hacking of the arm when useing deadeye
limpid agate
No it cant
Sombra's hack wouldn't stop Terry Fox from running
It won't stop McCree from moving his arm up and down to fan the hammer
peak escarp
lorewise, Sombra would probably be able to hack Soldier's visor
since it's computerized
but she couldn't hack McCree, who is more or less an ordinary human
and she couldn't hack Jack either
calm patio
couldnt hack reyes bcuase genetic modifications
worthy rose
Good thing lore doesn't define abilities O_o
peak escarp
I think the only heroes she could actually hack (not counting their weapons) would be Bastion, Orisa and Zen
and maybe Genji, depending on how his body works
rose pecan
what about all those prostetics?
peak escarp
can you hack prosthetics?
I would think something needs a computer in it to be hackable
it's not like Junkrat's arm and leg have a mind of their own
she could hack Tokki and Wrecking Ball though
rose pecan
well torbs arm is pretty much partially made electric
but i get your point indeed, like d.va's main form wouldnt be hackable but in her mech of course
dense estuary
also depends on how a piece of technology works, strictly speaking if its not on a network it cannot be remote hacked generally(though methods have be used to breach air gaps). Physical interface of course...
rose pecan
oh and you can hack genji as well since he is an omnic now
iron plume
the same arguments you make for genji can be made for other advanced prosthetics
you can't hack Junk's peg leg but at the least you can overload anything with circuits
and if they have a processor you can take over that
dense estuary
if Genji has no network link into his systems hes effectively impossible to hack easily, no clue on EMP hardening for this stuff in OW.
iron plume
we've seen Sombra clearly not give a shit about network connectivity
dense estuary
well if she gains physical access to anything on the system...
iron plume
if i were to handwave the science I'd say it's directed pulses forcing her signals in
dense estuary
Now in theory bastion should be very hackable
Omnics have been shown hackable in the Pharah comic, Where that one ate a bullet before he could be turned on his unit.
limpid agate
@rose pecan Genji is not an omnic. Likewise, Torbjorn's arm does not appear to be electronic at all. It seems to be purely mechanical.
You can hack computers
You can't hack simple machines.
desert hawk
Could Sombra hack this things in Korea, make them stop?
graceful abyss
Power
desert hawk
I mean, she would then have a practically undefeatable robot under her control
worthy rose
Ok the real question is should Sombra be able to hack the computers on Ecopoint Antarctica
worthy rose
For the lols
unkempt trail
What would Sombra even be doing in Antarctica? Hacking a weather research network?
Right
graceful abyss
Sombra can hack:
A glowing cowboy
The grim reaper spinning around shooting things
The mode a scrap gun is in
Sombra cant hack:
Literal robots
Electronic visors
A tesla cannon
graceful abyss
Fair
But in the infiltration short why didnt sombra just hack the massive robot suit
But in the infiltration short why didnt sombra just hack the massive robot suit
peak escarp
she wasn't there, she was going after Katya
graceful abyss
The one the guy was in
When she was on the catwalk the robot was shooting her down
graceful abyss
Good point
peak escarp
she has to be able to touch something to hack it, as far as we've seen
or be within 1-2 metres
otherwise it would have to be on a network
unkempt trail
Plus given her personal agenda in that moment - hacking the mech, and subsequently helping Reaper would hinder her plans
tawny patio
The thing is
Sombra PoV
Being a public figure: bad
Being a known terrorist: bad
If you’re standing in the forefront of the world everyone knows where to look for you
If you’re in the shadows working your way through puppets in power
You run the world with no threat
mortal ruin
No
peak escarp
Sombra wouldn't have any reason to hack the computers at Ecopoint Antarctica or to hack the Gwishin
sure the Gwishin are powerful weapons, but she doesn't want weapons, she wants (political?) power
worthy rose
I ask because consistency. I know the hack in the game is actually a cripple, but calling it a hack raises all the dumb questions that ^we've been asking^
peak escarp
she is known as the world's best hacker, so she does actually hack things in the lore
there just wasn't an easy way to show that in the game except by turning off heroes's abilities
fringe blade
I mean, then comes the question of how far her powers can really reach
Did she start to work with talon before or after DF's breakout?
peak escarp
unknown
fringe blade
I mean, if it was before, why didn't she ever break him out?
peak escarp
he seems like he could have broken out on his own at any time
worthy rose
How does Zarya charge her cannon? Those the bubble absorb the kinetic energy of the object hitting the bubble or what cause just walking would charge her bubble or a player hitting the bubble? It doesn't make sense.
peak escarp
that would be a good way of explaining it
the bubble absorbs kinetic energy and converts it into energy for her gun (or some technobabble like that)
fringe blade
I mean, if he didn't have his gauntlet, how did he even break out?
peak escarp
he punched through the wall with his cybernetic arm
peak escarp
there were also Talon moles in Helix who were probably feeding him information
maybe some who passed messages between him and Reaper
fringe blade
That would've helped but 1. What kind of prison allows a highly-guarded prisoner to physically break out 2. What kind of prison doesn't monitor a highly-guarded prisoner
peak escarp
one that isn't doing its job
fringe blade
Wasn't Helix a top of its industry?
I mean, if Overwatch trusted DF to them in the first place, there must've been a reason
peak escarp
we don't know if Overwatch trusted them - they could have just taken over Doomfist's custody after the fall
or maybe the UN didn't put him in Overwatch's custody and decided to go with Helix from the start
fringe blade
That means that they had a good enough reputation though
peak escarp
they probably did monitor him, but corruption and moles means someone probably hid the evidence of him breaking out
and they didn't "let" him break out, he just did
fringe blade
Yea, you're right
I just don't understand, what must the prison be made of in order for him to break out that easily
peak escarp
looks like cement in the origin trailer
easy enough for someone with a top-of-the-line cybernetic arm to punch through
remember, Akande did this
before he got the gauntlet back
After escaping from the facility, Helix lost track of Ogundimu until he resurfaced in Numbani, where he clashed with the newly introduced OR15 defense robots at the Adawe International Terminal, easily destroying them and reclaiming the Doomfist.
empty rain
Yeet
peak escarp
this is why Doomfist is one of the strongest heroes
pliant sparrow
“He could level a skyscraper”
pliant sparrow
I stand corrected
peak escarp
but he must have earned the rumor somehow
pliant sparrow
^
peak escarp
it's easy to see how being able to punch hard enough to crack concrete could be extrapolated into levelling skyscrapers
half pasture
I've gotten the impression winston is stronger than a normal gorilla but I don't believe there's anything to that other than my wild theorizing
pliant sparrow
Well considering it has been stated he has exercised before unlike pretty much every gorilla on the planet I’m assuming he has more muscle than most gorillas
bright edge
And the source of his power are carbs from eating peanut butter
pliant sparrow
By exercised I meant it as in with the goal to get healthier or fitter in mind
hasty surge
Just ignore him
unkempt trail
Imagine that a genetically engineered anything could probably be made to be stronger / faster than its non-modified equivalent
Thus Winston may very well be physically enhanced on top of intellectually
pliant sparrow
Considering how easily the gorillas trashed the place when they broke lose that’s a possibility
worthy rose
considering that everything is probably bad
worthy rose
Uhh ur looking at this wrong
The gorillas are genetically enhanced yes
But I more so assume intellectually than anything else. My reasoning to this is because of what we see of the condition horizon lunar colony as well as the method of killing the scientist
Which was shoving then out of an airlock
So while they are intelligent, I would wager that they were modified with the intention of increasing intelligence rather than their physical attributes. Hammond being the example I use
He doesn’t have winston’s primal rage of sorts so we can assume the genetic therapy changed them differently. Could they also have winston’s primal rage? Sure but do all of them? No idea
unkempt trail
Gorillas are still very strong naturally, sure they could bash the scientist around but I think Overwatch doesn't do gore or anything too gruesome
worthy rose
They literally shoved them out of the airlock
unkempt trail
Maybe Winston specifically had something special done to him given his status as prime subject. Also you'd need a strong(-er) physical frame to hop around on jump-packs
I mean bashing them around, blood and guts spilled all over. Something an enraged animal could do - primal rage
graceful abyss
Shoving them out of the airlock would guarantee the scientists deaths, while hitting them over the head would take more energy and would be less practical
keen imp
Doomfist>Overwatch
unkempt trail
Not dismissing the fact that shoving people out into space is a brutal death - much more deliberate than an animalistic thrashing. What I mean to argue is that gorillas and apes are very strong physically, and might be that some experiments involved genetic manipulation of said strenght
keen imp
Winston>Doomfist
peak escarp
it's implied that the apes tricked the scientists into the airlock, so that shows increased intelligence as well
graceful abyss
Winston=not monkey=scientist
keen imp
Really?!
It would explain the lack of blood that they could have painted the place with
graceful abyss
There are still bananas in the farm on horizon so that implies that the monkeys are still on horizon, and are growing banana trees to sustain themselves. Very intelligent monkeys
desert hawk
SĂ
keen imp
5head
frosty shell
I assume that with Doomfist he probably broke containment many times but was always ultimately put back in
But once Talon came along at the same time he was actually able to escape
calm patio
docter six, if reyes isnt impulsive, even as reaper, as you stated, then he seems to completly lose it when he does deathblossom, yelling die die die at teh top of his lungs
peak escarp
and?
that's not lore, that's gameplay
also, not an indicator of impulsiveness
that's just him being an edgelord
calm patio
lol
calm patio
true
peak escarp
he's able to turn and shoot directly at Winston, showing that he's in control
pliant sparrow
Is death blossom just him using his decaying form to pull out and fire as many shotguns as he can at once?
pliant sparrow
Any idea if the shotguns are his own creation or if he stores them somewhere
desert hawk
He stirs them in his ghost form thing is my guess, cause there is no way he could carry that many guns otherwise
teal meadow
everytime i see that cinematic, i always wonder if widow would have killed that kid to get the fist back if winston didn't appeared
like, since she is brainwashed, would she go that far?
lean prawn
probably
high storm
do you guys think we'll ever get cinematics for junkertown? Like showing wrecking ball and junker queen do their thing?
lean prawn
if i had to guess, junkertown won't be in the spotlight for a really long time
teal meadow
since they made a short for dva last year and mei the year before that (that they were really consideret "flat characters" by the community) i expect them to make a zenyatta one instead
high storm
i'd like zenyatta or lucio
teal meadow
Are the shorts all based on the present story, right?
lean prawn
so was hanzo fighting genji at about the same time dva defending Busan?
peak escarp
in the same year probably
not the exact same time
if we knew what year it was I could find the exact date of that news broadcast at the end
since it has "Thurs 19" in Korean in the corner
high storm
do u guys believe Junker Queen will become a playable character?
peak escarp
yes
but not any time soon
I think the "coming soon" heroes are the Storm Rising omnic, Echo and Sojourn
tawny patio
For junkertown itself we had the plan and for rat and pig we had a comic
- wreckingball’s intro cinematic gave us a small small look in that he is champion...not that that means much but it’s lore
peak escarp
I want to know what Hammond is up to now that he's left Junkertown
worthy rose
I wanna know how no one has reported a giant metal ball with guns attached just wandering around
teal meadow
So mondatta got assasinated in the present?
peak escarp
yes
peak escarp
wet fractal
hello
last inlet
Yes, how can the lore team help?
errant coral
what happened in switzerland
peak escarp
we don't know exactly - there was an explosion that destroyed the Swiss HQ and Morrison and Reyes were presumed dead
their fight could have triggered it, or it was a terrorist attack, or both
hallow vessel
I just spent 20 mins looking through recent posts, and if i were to say what i think happened with reaper is that before the retreubtion event, he suffered a serious injury during a mission that Moria used her expirements on, giving him the shadow powers, and causing his mental wellbieng to get worse. Moria smiling during the murder of Antionio could be how she shows her intreset while finding a side effect. This makes sense if you tthink about why he went evil and why he blames Overwatch.
Moria's biggest rival was Mercy, and mercy had her own version of the biotic tech, her staff, so it makes sense that moria had her own, Off-brand version that she used a Willing Reyes to test apon.
Perhaps her fade ability is an improved version of wraith form.
This idea also call into question a part of Ana's backstory, as her botic rifle is supposed to be basied on Mercy's staff, but it more clearly resembles Moira's duality between healing and damage. perhaps moria was the builder of the rifle, after all she would nhave no problem with stealing mercy's tech and making somemthing as contriversail as a gun that you are supposed to use by shooting your teammates in the back.
desert yacht
Torbjorn made Ana’s gun
peak escarp
^
desert yacht
Moira’s damage and Ana’s seem to be very different too
they’re both canon I believe, Moira’s because of the retribution short and Ana’s because of old soldiers
no confirmation on Moira orb though
peak escarp
@hallow vessel Reyes seems to be in good health when he recruits Moira and when she experimented on him - no sign of a major injury
worthy rose
Personally I question that doc
hallow vessel
@desert yacht my logic is that torbjorn is a weapons engineer, so he would need help from someone who knows more about healing then he does
worthy rose
Externally he seemed fine but I wanna know why he recruited moira to begin with if he didn’t have some issues he wanted resolved
Internally
hallow vessel
something must have happened to make him think they blackwatch needed a resident healer
peak escarp
he recruited her to help with some "genetic issues"
hallow vessel
still makes sense
peak escarp
according to the Q&A panel from Blizzcon 2017
hallow vessel
if you bend science a bit, it makes sense that reaper is more impulsive in talon then in his blackwatch days. If his cells are constantly regerating, then it would make sense (at least in a sci-fi setting) that he would have a hard time remebring or caring about plans.
desert yacht
I don’t see any instance of her orbs in lore
desert yacht
ah
hallow vessel
@high storm i think jeff said that junkertown queen will be playable at some point
desert yacht
I only looked at her origin story and the retribution cutscene
also reaper still seems to value planning quite a bit
worthy rose
Junkerqueen, echo, and soujourn are confirmed upcoming heroes
They have two others they’re testing and working
desert yacht
Reaper - “Stick to the plan, Sombra.”
Sombra - “Look, someone has to be prepared when all your careful planning doesn’t pan out.”