archives
#lore-discussion
broken ravine
storm rising*
omnics prob were trying to turn humanity to slaves
not kill them all
and humans were fighting a defensive war
peak escarp
what makes you think that?
peak escarp
Doomfist says "what you're doing for your people"
broken ravine
yes
peak escarp
that makes it sound more like the omnics were on the defensive
broken ravine
maybe this is at the end of the war
peak escarp
trying to break free from human enslavement
regal coyote
@peak escarp yes it does, hence on the survival thing.
Then again pred may not be the original ones that started the omnic crisis, and we know little about anything really
but at least the fraction pred is in seem to be doing it for freedom
broken ravine
guys in one of the comics
everybody is having fun
with christmas
and reaper is spying on some people
in the rain
peak escarp
his family
peak escarp
during an AMA in 2017 Chu was asked if it was just a random family, and Chu said no
so we know they're linked to Reaper somehow
peak escarp
Bastet indicated that Reyes and Ana were able to have families, while Jack never did
broken ravine
wasnt soldier gay
peak escarp
yes
peak escarp
not likely
broken ravine
poor guy
peak escarp
he's old enough to have adult children
peak escarp
my guess is Echo will be the Blizzcon hero
regal coyote
highlord jeff says so, but she not ready yet
peak escarp
and Sojourn some time next year
regal coyote
sojourn, not sure, we hope though
no idea, just that she is coordinating attacks on mission during stormie
so ex-agent in current timeline
broken ravine
wait wasnt genji original ow too
peak escarp
he joined ~10 years ago
broken ravine
and whos that guy kneeling next to reaper
peak escarp
we don't know
regal coyote
this is a party/off-duty picture of sorts
so not everyone shows up
and pharah is not member
peak escarp
Angela and Fareeha are just visiting
broken ravine
wait mercy isnt og either?:
broken ravine
mccree was blackwatch right
peak escarp
she joined after becoming a surgeon
broken ravine
wait how did genji and moira get into blakcwatch
peak escarp
Reyes recruited them
broken ravine
wasnt moira just a scientist
gentle token
Mercy is too young to be og, isn't she?
muted fog
Moira is a genetic scientist
worthy rose
Reyes had a habit of picking up strays into blackwatch
worthy rose
Moira was but I assume she had reyes training
broken ravine
ok
worthy rose
Like a field medic
peak escarp
because she lives in Dorado
worthy rose
I assume thats so she could pass info about echo so he could intercept ashe and echo
regal coyote
luck
peak escarp
a better question is why was McCree in Dorado
muted fog
Keep in mind that Reyes was also part of the Soldier Enhancement program, so he probably relayed what he learned in there with a few tweaks
worthy rose
But that isnt confirmed
peak escarp
the SEP wasn't about learning combat abilities
broken ravine
i mean they could have taught how to use strength to ur advantage
limpid agate
SEP was genetic enhancement
broken ravine
they had to have taught something
limpid agate
Not just training
peak escarp
it was a genetic therapy program
they were already highly trained soldiers from the US military
muted fog
The one thing i've learned over the time in this chat is that you should always be willing to accept you are wrong sometimes
broken ravine
and in the ana comic why didnt reaper just shoot soldier in the head
muted fog
¯_(ツ)_/¯
peak escarp
plot
regal coyote
think of SEP as budget captain america/blackwidow program without the shield
worthy rose
Also shot guns
broken ravine
oh
worthy rose
A better question would be
Why in the bastet short story does reaper have damage still from reaper guns but winston is fine despite being shot at more times than him
limpid agate
Winston has armor
broken ravine
that was so many things wrong with it
ye but in game
winston wouldnt stand a chance
regal coyote
in game not lroe though
peak escarp
Soldier just has a biker jacket
muted fog
the game isn't really a good source for lore content
muted fog
except for archives
regal coyote
well we know winston is also genetically enhanced, like hammond
regal coyote
normally if not for reaper bgin reaper thsoe shotgun wounds dont even do much to jack
limpid agate
Jack has a jacket and pants
broken ravine
thin clothes
regal coyote
jack supposed to have really good regeneration, think wolverine
peak escarp
not quite Wolverine level, but still good
muted fog
genetic enhancement will do that sometimes
regal coyote
according to anait seems that a journey from the site to their hideout and normally jack would ahve been healing the wounds all fine already
broken ravine
did genji write a letter to mercy
peak escarp
it seems so
broken ravine
cuz they both held a letter
regal coyote
whole that may not be a 100% heal it is stillr eally impressive
broken ravine
in the comic
regal coyote
yes letter to mercy
not a fan of genmercy but yes the feather is a hint that genji indeed ahve contact with mercy
peak escarp
why not?
broken ravine
but in storm rising mercy told genji to buy her dinner
muted fog
but of course
worthy rose
Love is a strong word, but there is familiarity there
muted fog
there is always space to be wrong
muted fog
i happen to have a lot of space for that
broken ravine
yeeeeeeeee
worthy rose
Overwatch isnt a game of ships afterall
peak escarp
we don't know if Ana's marriage ended before she dissapeared or because she disappeared
broken ravine
who was ana married to
peak escarp
Sam
muted fog
Sam
peak escarp
Fareeha's father
muted fog
you did tell me about that
vernal lintel
doomfist is kinda like thanos
iron plume
!!lorewiki Sam
twilit nacelleBOT
For more information about the game, please refer to the wiki: https://overwatch.gamepedia.com/Sam
muted fog
some guy who they revealed at Blizzcon
iron plume
pretty much all we know about him
gentle token
In terms of Mercy and Genji they have been lowkey flirty between the voicelines in storm rising and the "I miss Genji" voiceline in uprising. But no confirmation if they were official
peak escarp
he's a First Nations guy from Canada who worked as a public servant
muted fog
here comes the knowledge bomb
gentle token
Sorry, meant to mention that was a supposed line, I haven't heard it myself
muted fog
yes
regal coyote
good part is that he is canadian native
so yeah pharah is half native half egyptian
peak escarp
yes
muted fog
Pharah is, interesting
peak escarp
probably Haida or Coast Salish
muted fog
that's what i have to say about her
iron plume
that's a new sentence
muted fog
just, interesting
peak escarp
based on the style of her Raindancer skins
gentle token
Also Mercy and Genji had special voicelines for Valentine's day, and were the only two to get them (I think)
peak escarp
yes
gentle token
But then again that's just game stuff ofc
peak escarp
that's the biggest hint towards them having a romantic relationship
regal coyote
not swiss
peak escarp
it's a just hints
muted fog
there is always doubt
peak escarp
nothing confirmed
muted fog
exactly
broken ravine
plus
mercy got genji chocolates
in their hanamura voice interaction
and genji did the same
iron plume
they're also not as irrelevant as you think
peak escarp
the Japanese tradition is for women to give their boyfriends chocolate on Valentine's day (Feb 14) then guys return the favor a month later on White Day (Mar 14)
muted fog
well
iron plume
they don't mean the event happened but they do suggest a potential interaction
muted fog
they suggest what would happen
iron plume
which means Genji would like to bring her chocolates if they met on white day
muted fog
such as between Lucio and Sym
peak escarp
Mercy's chocolate line plays on Hanamura only on Feb 14
iron plume
and that would be her reaction
peak escarp
Genji's chocolate line plays on Hanamura only on Mar 14
broken ravine
why march
iron plume
white day
peak escarp
White Day
muted fog
because japanese holidays
peak escarp
I just explained
iron plume
it's an Asian holiday that has to do with romance
supposedly in Japan it's common for the woman to buy a valentine's gift and for the man to buy the one for white day
peak escarp
they were thought to be only on PTR, but several people have recorded them in the live game
muted fog
what an interesting use of real world holidays
regal coyote
it is not just ptr
peak escarp
a few heroes have lines about new year's resolutions that play in January
like Hanzo's "Next year, two cakes"
regal coyote
but the fact it is only played on feb14 and with both genji and mercy on same team (and even then it is up to chance, and you ahve to be on hamstermura)
muted fog
lines specific to points in time
regal coyote
So if you want and unfortunate enough to make it next year feb14 you can try it
peak escarp
I don't know of any other holidays that get special lines like that
broken ravine
in the christmas comic why is hanzo eating a cake
or not why
who gave it to him
whos the kid in the back
peak escarp
Christmas cake is a Japanese tradition
regal coyote
christmas cake is common in many places
peak escarp
the kid is unknown
muted fog
Japanese everything
regal coyote
though if he is in japan he would be chucking in KFC, and only KFC, other chickens are inferior, in thsi case
Dont knwo why really, but it is a big thing in Japan, kfc and christmas.
peak escarp
because in other parts of the world they eat Turkey for Christmas
regal coyote
turkey or ham and such
muted fog
well
every part of the world has it's own traditions
holidays
seasonal events
customs
anyway
anything else?
anything else?
peak escarp
about?
muted fog
oh
that other guy just keep asking about one thing after another, i guessed he had something else he wanted to know
peak escarp
Genji also calls her by her first name, which could indicate closeness
peak escarp
most other heroes call her Mercy except Brigitte
muted fog
mhmm
last inlet
Mercy also refers to Brig by name in incidental lines, which is interesting
peak escarp
similarly, Pharah calls McCree "Jesse", and they are hinted to have been close friends when they were younger
muted fog
also interesting
iron plume
we know why Mercy does, she's been close to the Lindholms for a long time
muted fog
torb is Brig's father
peak escarp
Mercy is very close with the Lindholms
last inlet
I forgot, that whole thing people made
iron plume
it's in the Brig teaser letter, she visited Torb in hospital
peak escarp
all the way back to childhood
last inlet
I remember that big deal people made about her age
muted fog
she does age
iron plume
we know
muted fog
according to mr.Chu
iron plume
he's not talking about mercy
peak escarp
people were wondering if she was a doctor at 14
muted fog
geez
iron plume
Brig's bio was published with her age as 28 at first
last inlet
In relation to her friendship with the Lindholms at a young age
muted fog
just trying to say something
iron plume
which would make visiting Mercy at most 9
peak escarp
28 was the wrong age to start with
Chu said so right away
she was always meant to be 23
peak escarp
at least, the finalized version of her
peak escarp
I think Angela's parents were probably good friends of the Lindholms, and when they died Torb kept an eye on her for them
gentle token
Ah, so Torb may be like her godfather in a sense?
peak escarp
possibly
I wonder if any other heroes have siblings/relatives we don't know about
according to the Q&A, Baptiste doesn't have any siblings but he has lots of cousins
worthy rose
I liked the part where tracer kissed emily
peak escarp
it was okay
the art in that comic was inconsistent, and it didn't really add much to the story, except by updating us on where most of the heroes are
peak escarp
Masquerade and Old Soldiers were better comics
frosty shell
I personally don't think Torbjörb knew the Zieglers
(yeah Torbjörb)
I just think Angela was given a scholarship or something to pursue medicine or something like that
And she got to know the Overwatch crew at some time afterwards
The OW HQ was in Switzerland
worthy rose
storm rising
fringe blade
this is definitely the shortest break between 2 events right?
because storm rising ended like 2-3 may
and anniversary is starting on the 21st
limpid agate
Its because Archives started a week late
The Anniversary has to start that week
Because the actual anniversary is May 24th
valid shell
@broken ravine Jack Morrison and Gabriel Reyes.
We do not know if there were any other combatants.
worthy rose
The Swiss HQ, The first attack on Anubis AI, and the failure to shut down the omnium at the East China Sea are the only real past events I care about
hasty surge
Would there be an issue if they start anniversary on may 24th?
peak escarp
the actual anniversary of the game is the 24th
so the event couldn't start after that
and it has to start on a Tuesday or Thursday
the 24th is a Friday
hasty surge
Why the rule anniversary to start on a tuesday or a thursday?
peak escarp
because every event since launch has started on a Tuesday or Thursday
Tuesday is usually patch day for Blizzard
fringe blade
If it was just Reyes and Morrison, how did the base end up destroyed
peak escarp
there was an explosion
some people think Morrison and Reyes's fight triggered it
Soldier thinks Talon blew them up
we don't really know what happened, but I hope we find out eventually
fringe blade
i was really hoping that the 2019 Archives would've been about the Swiss HQ
worthy rose
A lot of us were
Storm Rising didn't do much besides introduce Sojourn, confirm strife between reyes and morrison, and that Maxi sold out doomfist and introduce omnic dreadlock man
valid shell
I don't understand the fixation on the Swiss HQ and the Omnic Crisis.
As events, I mean.
They just wouldn't work. Save them for cinematics or comics.
foggy notch
There's an omnic at the end of the movie in storm rising, who is it?
valid shell
We do not know.
worthy rose
The Swiss HQ is seemingly the biggest turning point for Reaper and Morrison's relationship. It's an event filled with mystery and intrigue as well as the last major event of OW before it's rebirth in Recall.
Gabriel Reyes had established himself as a protagonist/hero for a long time but now in current day we see him being essentially the enemy but we never truly get to see this transformation take place hence if there was major conflict between the two, it would have happened at the Swiss HQ but it's the one event that is heavily shrouded in mystery
valid shell
Yes, it's very intriguing.
worthy rose
How did Morrison survive? Did Reaper's powers fully manifest when the HQ got destroyed? Who blew it up? Did Reaper really hate Morrison enough to try and kill him despite them being on decent terms in the past two years?
valid shell
But it wouldn't work for an event.
worthy rose
It wouldn't work as a 4 man archive mission I agree
valid shell
It could only work as, like. A special mode for 1v1 duel.
worthy rose
but would definitely work as a solo mission being shown from both their perspectives
limpid agate
And that wouldn't work for Archives
foggy notch
Well there wasn't only jack and gabriel there, several agents were also killed during the explosion and I think Mccree was there too if I'm not mistaken
foggy notch
Actually no body blew it up but the conflict between Jack and Gabriel detonated something
limpid agate
Specifically because he didn't want to pick sides
Also, the exact cause of the explosion is unknown
We just know the two fought, and then the building exploded
foggy notch
But if im not mistaken I think Mccree saved reyes
limpid agate
You are mistaken.
foggy notch
But i'm sure that the conflict between them triggered the explosion
foggy notch
And there are some theories about why they had conflict
Some say it was because Reyes had lost the rank he had, he was envious
But then again he was the head of blackwatch
But as the retribution story told us
The diverging path started when Reyes killed Antonio
worthy rose
First like Jewvia said, you are mistaken.
There's an interview with either Chu or Jeff basically them clarifying or telling us that Reaper was fine with not being leader and was relieved for Jack to have the number 1 position
limpid agate
Some say it was because Reyes had lost the rank he had, he was envious
We were told and shown that he was not envious.
He was relieved that he was not given Strike Commander position
This is not why they fought.
But then again he was the head of overwatch
No, he was the head of Blackwatch
A division of Overwatch
30 years ago, he was strike commander of the original team
And when the Crisis ended, the job was given to Jack
And, as mentioned earlier
Gabe was fine with that.
The diverging path started when Reyes killed Antonio
This is the only thing you said that wasn't incorrect.
Retribution was when Reyes started to "fall"
foggy notch
Yea I know he was fine with it
But I had read somewhere that him not taking the command made him envy
Thanks for clarifying guys
limpid agate
That was from Mercy, and that was retconned/corrected.
foggy notch
And about blackwatch, I typed it wrong !
limpid agate
That was also from 4 years ago, a year before Overwatch came out
I would take most pre-release lore lightly. A lot of it has been altered or changed.
foggy notch
What source u think is the best one to read about these?
I've been gathering intel from overwatch.wikia
twilit nacelleBOT
For more information about the game, please refer to the wiki: https://overwatch.gamepedia.com/
limpid agate
Its still a user maintained wiki, so it is not a reliable primary source
But
Gamepedia is a better maintained wiki that cites its sources and has more than 2 people working on it.
hot citrus
You could also do your own research by going through all official sources like the shorts and comics.
See what you are able to point out
limpid agate
All of which can be found in pins
worthy rose
Or just asking and bouncing your ideas assuming that they're based on logical reasoning
foggy notch
Yea I mean we can't know everything because the writer hasn't written about it !
We should just speculate
worthy rose
Well no
While we don't know everything, we can form reasonable conclusions based on hints from maps and cinematics and comics. The biggest one being that Sombra is very likely manipulating/feeding information to Soldier to essentially move him like a chess piece and is also the one who gave him info about Ana being alive. That type of information was gathered from exploring the map and piecing it together based on Soldier being in Dorado and the comic of him finding Ana
Also possible for McCree as well but there's less evidence on that
foggy notch
Hmmm I never noticed that Sombra was feeding soldier
worthy rose
If you explored the other egyptian map, you'd find Soldier's set up inside.
Not Temple of Anubis
What's your issue with the theory?
limpid agate
I do not understand what Sombra would have to gain from it, nor why Soldier 76 would blindly listen to what Sombra is feeding him.
peak escarp
I don't think he blindly trusts her
but her information has been good so far, so there's no reason to doubt it
limpid agate
Why trust the first piece, and what would that first piece even be?
peak escarp
I don't know what Sombra could get out of it though
limpid agate
Beat the shit out of my old gang for me?
worthy rose
I would say it's her having someone in her pocket as well as a favor should she need it. She knows her conspiracy is watching and has a lot of hands in a lot of places so having capable people who she likely suspects with no affiliation with them while also disrupting them and causing events to happen that may force them out into the light is more or less why I see it as it is
Like if you found out the head of overwatch was alive, and he was a super soldier, and had no affiliation with your enemy, you'd more or less want him on your side as well as pointing him at where your enemies likely are
peak escarp
for this theory to work there has to be a first meeting/contact that built trust between them that we haven't seen
but there is the opportunity for it to happen
so I see it as a strong possibility
worthy rose
I'd imagine Sombra probably went to him first anonymously once she heard news of a man breaking into the OW base with the helix rifle being taken
this would at the very least gather her interest to look at matters deeper into this
I buy it cause I think it fits into Sombra's M.O and there's evidence for it
peak escarp
this is assuming the footage Soldier has is specifically the footage from the satellite and security cameras Sombra hacked in Volskaya, not just reused assets or whatever
but I can't think of any other way for him to get those images
worthy rose
Or why he would even bother since I'm sure Russia didn't have a Hand in Overwatch's creation or downfall
limpid agate
but I can't think of any other way for him to get those images
And that is where the theory falls apart for me
I see it as a way to find an excuse for the Volskaya camera feed to exist in Necropolis
I prefer the simpler answer of
Reused Assets
And its not literally meant to be the Volskaya camera feed
But rather a closeup of Reaper in a cinematic render
fringe blade
Did the UN/Overwatch do anything to help out with the omnic situation in Russia?
It might've been in the comics, i need to reread those
limpid agate
It would not be the first time out-of-context assets were used to convey unrelated ideas
@fringe blade No.
Russia rejected support
fringe blade
Did Korea?
worthy rose
Probably not since they're country is ravaged by a giant omnic that comes from the sea every couple of months or years
worthy rose
Tho the fact it's still standing and the east china see omnium running is questionable
limpid agate
Just that Overwatch had a "minimal presence" there
fringe blade
I mean, i can imagine Russia rejecting OW's help, but Korea..?
limpid agate
Am I the one who made a mistake?
worthy rose
no I remember that as well Jewvia
peak escarp
it was mentioned in the interview Chu did for Sony's blog after Busan came out
fringe blade
Russia has always been quite a closed country, so it makes a lot of sense anyway
But Korea, not so much
peak escarp
I'd find it but I'm at work
twilit nacelleBOT
For more information about the game, please refer to the wiki: https://overwatch.gamepedia.com/Overlord
fringe blade
I mean, falling out can mean a lot of things
worthy rose
I assume it'd be major
considering that Ana wasn't allowed there and is on the Russian watchlist
fringe blade
It does feel like that is what he was implying.
But again, I don't think that Korea would willingly refuse UN's help
worthy rose
it's one of the voice lines she has and personally I think is too out there to be considered a joke
limpid agate
It sounds like its something in between "Russia rejected Overwatch's help" and "Overwatch fucked up in Russia during the crisis"
worthy rose
Korea I don't think rejected Overwatch's help but it is very strange that overwatch was around for 20 years and was unable to take care of the gwishin or the east china sea omnium
fringe blade
I mean, it says they are 'pro Overwatch', which doesn't mean they have their support
It cold mean they just support OW's ideologies or such
limpid agate
Also, considering it is about D.Va
It could be more about the present day "overwatch is back" stuff
Where some forces like the UN, Helix, and the Kremlin are against it
regal coyote
on overwatch and russia, i think that is in one of the videos
maybe the lore explanation 2 years ago
limpid agate
It being in a video would explain the lack of a text source
But I don't have the patience to sift through videos for that
fringe blade
Honestly, if Russia is refusing the help of the UN, their situation isn't that bad
limpid agate
I mean, its pretty fuckin bad.
regal coyote
on reaction to overwatch, if you think of the wordings (for the few that canr ead it) it seems at least china is neutral towards overwatch's return, or at least on winston-tracer. the wording is either neutral or supportive
it is bad in russia
bur russia have big robots being able to win at the time
fringe blade
It might be pretty bad, but I guess not to the point of bad where Russia is able to drop their pride and ask for help
regal coyote
interesting to see even for russia they decide nto to smash the siberia omnium
but now the omnic is pushing back again
what can i say russian army is tough af, at least in ow
they have lots of giant mech and smaller powerarmor
limpid agate
Probably because Russia is fuck huge, and the war is in a more remote part of the country that's closer to Mongolia than it is to Moscow, Petersburg, Kezan, etc.
regal coyote
then again mech and powerarmor is common in ow, even junkers ahve it
and rein is usign one in a way
limpid agate
Its really just
Novosibirsk, Irkutsk, and Omsk
For major cities that are threatened by the omnium.
Well, and Krasnoyarsk obviously
But you can fit a good half of Europe between Moscow and the omnium.
peak escarp
I always forget how big and empty Russia is
peak escarp
which is ironic considering how big and empty Canada also is
limpid agate
Canada is vertically challenged.
All of its major cities are along the American border
Which spans the whole country's length
While Russia is mostly just the western quarter
And 60% of the country is just land
peak escarp
the European part of Russia
limpid agate
Yes
Here is a 5 second paint job
To show just how far the omnium is from Moscow
You can literally fit Europe in between Moscow and Krasnoyarsk
peak escarp
do we know exactly where the omnium is? I thought it was just "the Siberian omnium"
and Siberia is a region
peak escarp
ah
limpid agate
The coloured red part is siberia
So it can be anywhere there
Actually, lemme reupload
The pink is the region "Krasnoyarsk Krai"
The green dot is the city "Krasnoyarsk"
The omnium is east of that
peak escarp
gotcha
limpid agate
For the Americans
Take the distance from LA to Miami
Then go into both oceans
Actually, here is a more accurate number, thanks Canada for being bigger
The distance from Vancouver to Toronto is the same as the distance from Moscow to Krasnoyarsk
I don't know why Google is telling me that is 4000 km
While going corner to corner in USA is only 3000
Oh, it keeps changing to miles.
Yeah its LA to Miami
peak escarp
on the subject of having the Swiss HQ being featured for Archives, I think it's too early for that
whatever happened at the Swiss HQ seems like a major plot point and I think they haven't done enough groundwork for that yet
I'd like to see the collapse of Morrison and Reyes's friendship before we see that
fringe blade
They could reveal that through the comics and shorts this year, and then release it for Archives 2020
But they will probably just make up some new location with some new plot point that we have never heard of or imagined, because Blizzard
peak escarp
but it also wouldn't make for a very good Archives mission
since those are always a team of 4
peak escarp
yeah
fringe blade
I mean, it would make a pretty cool short'
But i feel like its a lot to pack-in in a 7-ish minute video
peak escarp
it would be a big lore event, but probably not a big game event
they would probably make it a longer short
maybe longer than Mei's
fringe blade
I mean, to be completely fair, Mei's short had some filler to it
Quite more than other shorts
peak escarp
filler?
fringe blade
Stuff like her waking up
I mean, its pretty cute and all
But they spend like 1min 30sec showing how she brushes her teeth and has fun with Snowball
peak escarp
I guess
fringe blade
It kind of shows off her character, but doesn't really hold any significance IMO
peak escarp
but it also draws out the suspense before finding out everyone else is dead
since we know that's coming
fringe blade
I suppose
But length wise, if you cut all of the filler out, it would be a 7-8 min video like the others
I am also curious, why does she literally walk out into Antarctica with a pack and nothing else? I mean, she doesn't really have a choice, but wouldn't she have had some sort of plan of what she was going to do?
Because winging it doesn't really sound all that good of a plan
peak escarp
she would have known where the nearest research station was
which would be the easiest way to get back to civilization so she could meet up with Winston
limpid agate
But length wise, if you cut all of the filler out, it would be a 7-8 min video like the others
peak escarp
and it's hardly "a pack and nothing else"
limpid agate
You need to cut the "filler" from the others too then
Like Winston's breakfast routine.
Or McCree's pie
Even though those scenes are also used to set the stage
And aren't really filler at all
peak escarp
fringe blade
I would actually disagree. Scenes like the Winston breakfast and such really set the scene and the mood of the story, but then Mei's parts don't really do anything. They are just a tool for suspense, like Doctor said
limpid agate
The train lands at the 1 minute mark of Reunion. McCree steps outside at 1:30
peak escarp
she's an experienced hiker, she knows what she's doing
McCree's pie also serves as suspense
we know there's a train crash on that map
we know noon is coming
fringe blade
And this isn't really backing anything up, but even if you do cut out those bits, they still become 7-ish minute videos, which is normal
peak escarp
it would be very jarring to just start with the train crash
or to just start with Mei finding her colleagues
fringe blade
The only one that would be arguably shorter would the 76 short
Maybe its just me, but does anyone else think the 76 short is one of the most disappointing lore-wise?
fringe blade
It introduces Dorado, I suppose
peak escarp
and it's not even from his POV - it's from Alejandra's POV
foggy notch
And how omnics were treated in mexico
peak escarp
sure it gives worldbuilding
all of them do
but it doesn't add anything to the plot, and it doesn't even give us character development on Soldier
foggy notch
I think the most lore given was in dragons
fringe blade
I disagree
peak escarp
at least Shooting Star tried to give us character development on D.Va
even if it failed
fringe blade
I think the most heavy-lore short was either Recall or Infiltration
foggy notch
I was talking about the characters
Not the story
I meant background story of the heros
fringe blade
It gave us a bit of lore on 2 heroes out of 30
That are kind of disconnected from the overall story and lore of the main plot
limpid agate
It introduces Dorado, I suppose
foggy notch
Yes absolutely
limpid agate
It doesn't.
It only introduces Los Muertos and Alejandra
Los Muertos are cool
But not cool enough to make up for the rest of the short.
fringe blade
Was dorado introduced earlier?
foggy notch
Guys in the end of storm rising archive movie
fringe blade
...?
foggy notch
Is that doomfist in white tuxedo?
fringe blade
Yes.
fringe blade
An omnic that is currently unknown.
foggy notch
And what are they discussing?
fringe blade
Just watch the movie, dude
peak escarp
the omnic is setting up an alliance with Doomfist and Talon
their alliance is put on hold while Doomfist is in jail, but now that he's out their plans can resume
so that scene is setting up things that will likely happen in the future
fringe blade
Its interesting how it seems like the omnic is seeking help, and then says 'You have my attention' like it was DF who started the convo in the first place
foggy notch
And do u think the omnic is representing a group or organization?
peak escarp
best guess is Null Sector
foggy notch
Or is it a single individual?
fringe blade
I mean, i am sure he is 99%
foggy notch
Like an assassin or something
fringe blade
Why else would Talon back him up?
peak escarp
his appearance fits, and what Doomfist says about "your kind" also fits
foggy notch
Yea true
peak escarp
why is obvious bad?
peak escarp
if something is obvious, and then there's a twist and it's not what all the clues were pointing to, that's bad writing
limpid agate
On that line
I still think the White Dome teaser was useless for its purpose
I'm going to argue that something is a red herring when I don't believe it is but
The Hammond Teaser with the big Junkerqueen poster
Had people thinking it was Junkerqueen
And it ended up being Hammond based on other posters on the wall
That is fine for a red herring
peak escarp
yeah, that's a good example of a misdirect
limpid agate
Except Hammond's posters were bigger than the Queen's, and he was the one who got lore updates leading up to it
I don't believe Junkerqueen was a red herring
BUT
That is a good example of one when compared to Emre
Which was useless
fringe blade
How many heroes have we gotten that came out of nowhere?
limpid agate
Post launch?
limpid agate
It is impossible to deduce from that teaser that "Torbjorn's arm being lost" will lead to "Brigitte is playable"
Post lauch... Technically 3.
peak escarp
Ashe and Baptiste, and kinda Orisa
lean prawn
when was ana first mentioned?
limpid agate
She had teasers
peak escarp
that's why I say kinda
limpid agate
Ana was first mentioned when Soldier 76 was revealed.
Yeah I know, that's also why I said technically
limpid agate
Ashe/Baptiste came out of nowhere. Especially Ashe who was revealed 10 minutes before her announcement
Baptiste at least had a week
peak escarp
I wish they'd go back to heroes that were seen before
I like looking back and finally understanding the hints
limpid agate
Sojourn
peak escarp
Ana was featured in the early lineups of Overwatch heroes
Sojourn fills that niche of hints that haven't paid off yet
or well, hadn't before Chu said that was her in the group picture
slow garnet
Who's the big guy in the middle?
peak escarp
yes
desert yacht
yeah i remember an interaction between tracer and mercy
how rein wasn't taking it well
i wonder at what point in time that picture was taken then
desert yacht
is that picture even lore canon?
peak escarp
it's old enough that the designs are outdated
desert yacht
yeah, it probably made him feel like he was fulfilling the duty that his actions took away from balderich
like he was making up for those mistakes in the battle
did tracer wear that outfit before uprising? or is that not revealed
peak escarp
which outfit?
desert yacht
her current one
peak escarp
we've only seen her in her training gear and her cadet uniform before Storm Rising
and her Slipstream flight suit
peak escarp
around there
desert yacht
they were both in between uprising and storm
peak escarp
we don't know where Ana is during Storm Rising
it's a guess that she went missing before that
but it fits the timeline
desert yacht
so if that picture isn't incorrect, it was taken in between ana's death and uprising
peak escarp
it's an old picture
desert yacht
that's why i'm thinking it's incorrect
maybe they didnt have the concept of tracer's cadet outfit yet
peak escarp
like the medal ceremony picture, it was made before they really had the designs nailed down
desert yacht
or didn't want to reveal it
foggy notch
Storm rising is in present day?
desert yacht
yeah nevermind yours seems more probable
peak escarp
Storm Rising is 6 years ago
foggy notch
What is the closest thing to present?
peak escarp
most of the comics and shorts are set in the present
desert yacht
swiss hq in terms of old overwatch, in terms of archives it's storm
peak escarp
the most recent event in the timeline is Searching, where Zarya goes looking for Sombra after blackmailing Katya Volskaya during Infiltration
foggy notch
Why was rein discharged then? It wasn't because of ow disbandment?
desert yacht
yeah speaking of russia, i wanted to mention something relevant to the conversation about it earlier
ana and soldier have an interaction referencing ana saving him in russia
which means that they were both active there
so it may have been an original strike team mission there
peak escarp
Reinhardt did something (we don't know what) that made Overwatch force him to retire
desert yacht
really? it wasn't just age of retirement?
foggy notch
Hmmm so the movie about rein and visiting his old friend, when did that took place?
peak escarp
there's lines indicating he was forced into retiring
that was present day, with flashbacks to 30 years ago
desert yacht
so how many original strike team missions do we know of
peak escarp
that was his response to the message sent out by Winston in Recall
foggy notch
Supa sry for interrupting ur story but I have a question. So rein was forced to retire and then they called for him?
peak escarp
he was still on the list of agents I guess
desert yacht
i wonder if rein's rejoining would be extra controversial, especially considering the petras act
recall was about a year ago i believe
foggy notch
Yes he was cause there was his photo alongside genji's tracy's etc
peak escarp
Recall is present day
foggy notch
So let me get it right
foggy notch
Ow was disbanded for some reasons and then winston recalls all
peak escarp
they're still filling in details around the time of Recall, but a few things have gone past it
foggy notch
Knowing jack and ana are dead?
peak escarp
officially, Recall is "present day"
desert yacht
did recall happen before reflections?
peak escarp
so when things say "6 years ago" etc. they're counting back from Recall
Reflections is after Recall
foggy notch
I hear u doc
desert yacht
so recall is atleast over half a year ago
since searching is mid summer and that's the closest we have to real present day
peak escarp
there's a timeline I made of everything happening in the present
the format isn't great, but it gives you an idea of when things happen
foggy notch
Nice job doc
desert yacht
oh so searching wasn't mid summer
foggy notch
Tnx
peak escarp
Searching starts early November (right after Infiltration) and ends the summer of the following year
after Orisa has been built
because you can see her in the background when Zarya goes to Numbani
desert yacht
i really like how they just threw orisa in there as a cameo
peak escarp
it's neat, but it does kinda mess up the timeline for the comic
it means Zarya has been looking for Sombra for months, even though she only says "weeks" in the comic
and it makes her look really incompetent
foggy notch
So about supa's story, r u referring to the one which soldier got hit from reaper and ana healed him?
limpid agate
i really like how they just threw orisa in there as a cameo
That is one of the bigger problems with Searching
Orisa being there as a cameo is a massive timeline problem
Because it means Zarya was looking for Sombra for months before going to Numbani, where she then met Lynx, went to Dorado, and then spent more there
desert yacht
i mean from a lore standpoint it's not good, but i liked it from a non lore standpoint
i'm not referring to any comic or anything like that defalt
peak escarp
without that cameo, Zarya would have wasted less time and the comic would make more sense
desert yacht
it's a tiny dialogue (if you can even call it that) between soldier and ana ingame
it leads me to believe that the original strike team had a mission in russia
and that possibly something happened on that mission that made russia fall out with overwatch
that's all speculation though
nothing confirmed
desert yacht
yeah that's the one
foggy notch
The one time he had a conflict with reaper?
peak escarp
Brazil could be the mission in Rio Ana mentions in Bastet, when they stopped to take that picture
Egypt could be shutting down the Anubis project
we don't have an original Overwatch mission in Russia yet though
desert yacht
egypt could also be the encounter with reaper, she did save his life there
that could be hinting at an original overwatch mission in russia
that line basically just tells us that ana and jack were in a conflict in russia
the only time we know of when that would be happening other than present day would be original strike team
and they haven't been out of egypt since
peak escarp
it could be from any time
desert yacht
unless they've been a little out of egypt, don't 100% remember
it could be
but it would make the most sense on the original strike team
peak escarp
they shut down the Anubis project a decade ago
it doesn't have to be the original strike team
desert yacht
oh you're referencing egypt
peak escarp
just Jack and Ana
desert yacht
yeah i guess
peak escarp
Russia could have been any time too
desert yacht
so the omnic crisis is World War III?
peak escarp
basically
desert yacht
it says that it was considered a world war
when did the crisis end?
~20 years ago?
peak escarp
~25 years ago
sources disagree on when it ends, but the average is about 25 years ago
desert yacht
ok so it was less than 30 years ago
peak escarp
so between 30 and 25 years ago
foggy notch
Uprising was during the crisis?
desert yacht
so that's about a 19-24 year range where ana was serving in overwatch
peak escarp
19-24?
desert yacht
that's how long she would have been serving in it
since she disappeared around 6 years ago
desert yacht
which means a potential russia mission could've happened in any of those years
but i would guess it would be closer to the beginning of overwatch since she took more of a commander standpoint later on
desert yacht
what's the reason for them not doing an og overwatch mission again?
peak escarp
idk
desert yacht
i heard people say that it was because ana didnt have healing tech back then, but gameplay != lore so it wouldnt really matter
since winston has his bubble and mercy has rez
and rez isnt even a thing by a lore standpoint
i still think it would be cool to see some ana/rein/jack/gabriel missions
so bastion was really just wandering around alone for about 15 years
wait so how is ganymede still alive
i really doubt he's survived 15 years
nevermind, the lifespan of birds is a lot longer than I thought
half pasture
This is why birds are often considered a serious commitment as pets
desert yacht
wild birds of his species generally live 3 years, with the longest recorded being 15 years
in captivity the longest recorded is 28.5 years
so how do we know that bastion woke up 15ish years ago
worthy rose
I assume this is for a similar-looking bird.
But yes, Ganymede is really stretching it on age.
crystal crystal
regal coyote
@limpid agate the b iggest problem is how birdie is able to follow bastion around while he goes under the ocean.
The part where he walks out of the waters with sea satars on him...
desert yacht
why are you pinging jewvia he had nothing to do with that
hasty surge
Really? Was there a scene like that?
devout sable
@peak escarp I still don't know where you're getting "25 years ago"
rocky ferry
teal meadow
You probably get invited to parties, don't you?
worthy rose
The reason why we dont do OG overwatch missions is because no one on the original strike team was a healer that we know of. Ana still isn’t technically a medic in lore but in game acts as a support
gentle token
But then comes the question of "how much supply drops do we make" too little will make it too hard, to many will make it too easy
regal coyote
well there is difficulty level
flint briar
the supply drop idea would actually offer a different playing experience, so im for it. variety is the spice of life
fringe blade
I mean, they can always take the easy way out and just plop down health packs
inner lagoon
That’s kinda dumb, and no way that would work in an event if the health packs were too slow cause the amount of omnics and small hits that stack up fast, especially on harder difficulty
fringe blade
True
inner lagoon
And with health drops, you’d have to run to it every 2 min
frosty shell
bastion emerged from the water in his comic
maybe bastion found another bird of the same species?
As for Searching, it could be explained away with my (admittedly somewhat unlikely) theory that the Volskaya-Zarya meeting happened a few days or weeks after Infiltration and that Katya just chose to wear the same earrings and outfit (perhaps so she could show Zarya how close she came to getting assassinated)
I have a theory - what if the Omnic at the end of Storm Rising is related to the Omnics whom Katya bought tech from?
peak escarp
a woman that's as put-together as Katya wouldn't wear the same outfit and keep wearing a broken earring days/weeks later just to prove a point
that's very unlikely
hasty surge
I think that's just her "uniform"
It's easier to identity characters if they are wearing the same thing
peak escarp
but it's still implied that she called in Zarya right after the attack
desert hawk
Yeah
peak escarp
also that still doesn't solve the problem of Zarya searching for Sombra for months
without once going to a Spanish-speaking country
frosty shell
yeah
I do think a plausible explanation could be concocted
but the comic didn't provide it
peak escarp
I get that maybe Katya sent her to check out places that Sombra attacked, but her most recent attack before Volskaya was Lumerico
so logically, she should have started there
frosty shell
Maybe Katya got Zarya to search for Talon activity?
peak escarp
unless Katya didn't give her any instructions, and Zarya just had to figure it out on her own
that could explain it
frosty shell
which does seem unlikely but not impossible
maybe Katya wanted Zarya to fail?
but then she wouldn't have introduced her to Lynx-17
worthy rose
but she sent her on the mission
frosty shell
or maybe Katya's original plan was to lure Sombra out
peak escarp
but that would be falling into the cliche of "all brawn no brains"
frosty shell
Luring Sombra out is a possibility, it would explain why Katya sent her all over the world
zarya maybe had to be unaware of this because Katya was afraid Volskaya comms had been compromised?
frosty shell
If Volskaya called in Zarya after the attack I imagine it would've taken her some time to get back from the front lines (assuming she was still there)
peak escarp
assuming
frosty shell
yes
but it would be a plausible reason why the meeting wouldn't have happened on the same day
peak escarp
but that still doesn't explain her outfit
frosty shell
I still don't think wearing the same outfit to prove a point is out of the question
peak escarp
but why would the outfit matter? it's not like it has blood splatter
it was just a broken earring
frosty shell
I know but maybe Volskaya just likes that style
peak escarp
which she doesn't need to wear to show Zarya
frosty shell
Another problem is that Lynx-17 doesn't seem to know much about Sombra besides what is public knowledge
peak escarp
how is that a problem?
worthy rose
Let's say Katya had a hand with the organization/conspiracy that Sombra is looking for but Sombra didn't know Katya had a hand in it. And clearly Lynx 17 didn't know Sombra was an individual so him having her name would be out of the question.
I could see Katya, being a member of that company sombra is looking into, which I will refer to the illuminati, would want Sombra dead because of
- Being threatened
- Sombra knowing about the organization as a whole
- Sombra just being a meddlesome and troublesome piece in their scheme to do whatever it is they're doing
It would explain how Zarya knew her name if given to her by Katya or Alejandra told Zarya
frosty shell
where zarya got sombra's name from isn't a big problem
worthy rose
I'd say that's a big detail since Sombra made it a prerogative to be invisible and wiped off the map.
Of course not but the organization who found Sombra the first time would have known her name and if Katya was a member, she'd know the name as well
peak escarp
Katya just knew that Sombra was a single person, rather than a collective
worthy rose
at least later on after asking for it
frosty shell
you couldn't wipe the memories of people like Alejandra's family
worthy rose
Of course not but most people in Dorado seemingly respect Sombra or at the very least try not to bother her or get in her way as seen with Alejandra's mom not giving her up despite there being a connection between them and Sombra with the voice line of Sombra "I should go visit the bakery"
frosty shell
Sombra probably either convinced Dorado's denizens to keep her identity a secret or has threatened them with payback
peak escarp
it was implied that the people in Dorado were protecting her
frosty shell
Alejandra probably gave the name up because she wanted to be heroic like Soldier: 76
peak escarp
so it's likely many of them know her name (because she grew up there), but since she's a 'hero of the people' they keep quiet
worthy rose
I'm more questioning would the younger kids know about Sombra
Actually hang on
Sombra is in her early 30's right?
peak escarp
frosty shell
it's possible Lynx might've had intel suggesting that Sombra is not on the run and is thus in Dorado
peak escarp
Sombra is 30
frosty shell
yep
peak escarp
we don't know how old she was when she erased her identity
frosty shell
Alejandra's mom might've casually referred to Sombra by her real name once before
peak escarp
but it seems rather recent, based on her having the same appearance that she does now
worthy rose
Alright I'm asking because given that alejandra is like what 11-14? her mother would be in her 40's-50's. I'm just trying to figure out like a potential relationship of sorts
peak escarp
I'd say her mother is probably 30s-40s
worthy rose
Also I don't see how the people of Dorado, especially as someone as young as Alejandra would make sense for Sombra. Since she's working to keep her identity a secret
So maybe a sisterly relationship of sorts?
peak escarp
or just friends
worthy rose
that too