particularly since Null Sector is still relevant
#lore-discussion
peak escarp
peak escarp
Retribution and Storm Rising were also many years ago
desert yacht
towards the present plot
peak escarp
they explain why the present plot is happening
half pasture
It's also like, the person who immediately calls winston in recall is tracer
Relfections is more about tracer than it is winston
desert yacht
Overwatch got shutdown and is recalling after talon attacks
reflections isn’t important to plot
it just tells us what everyone is doing for the holidays
unless I missed something in the tracer/Winston segment
meant plot, not lore
half pasture
Character development, shockingly is actually important to stories
desert yacht
it’s lore relevant but not plot relevant
half pasture
And tracer absolutely has the most of that
desert yacht
I still wouldn’t put her at main, I’d put her at borderline
one comic or short could move her to main though
desert yacht
it gives us a lot of lore though
half pasture
Stories aren't all plot
desert yacht
I’m not disagreeing with that
the only thing that puts tracer above the other characters who have accepted recall is that she’s gone on a mission
post reform
half pasture
Arguing that plot importance is the sole determiner of what makes a main character is wrongheaded
desert yacht
either way I wouldn’t put her at main
she has a lot of lore yeah, but if she was killed off almost nothing would change
half pasture
That's really a bad line of reasoning there
She has basically the most lore for a reason
desert yacht
they haven’t given us that reason yet, so I’m keeping her at borderline
half pasture
Hell the entire focus of uprising is that it's tracers first mission
peak escarp
the main plot is
Recall, the cinematic trailer, Alive, Masquerade in present day, and Uprising, Retribution, Storm Rising and Doomfist's capture in the past
everything else is character development, side plots or fluff
desert yacht
soldier isn’t a main character and he was the main focus of the old plot
peak escarp
he wasn't the focus of the past plot
desert yacht
I still wouldn’t put tracer up there with the big 3
peak escarp
Reyes and Tracer were
desert yacht
not the focus maybe
peak escarp
Jack was a supporting character
desert yacht
tracer is being built up to be one, that doesn’t mean she is one yet
half pasture
She goddamn is one
peak escarp
she is still the hero that appears in the most main plot events
half pasture
Uprising is about tracer
desert yacht
Uprising builds up the present main plot, anything that happened while overwatch was still a thing shouldn’t count towards present main plot
Winston played a much bigger role than tracer in Recall, and they had about the same role in the museum short
tracer isn’t in a main character position at the moment, but that could change real soon
I’d say reaper doom and Winston are all in those big positions
she’s too built up to be a secondary, but not important enough to be a main character
if any of the big 3 died, the plot would be changed massively
tracer hasn’t reached that point
anyways, would baptiste be secondary or tertiary
he’s kind of irrelevant to the main plot besides that talon wants to find him
half pasture
If a character died does the plot change, is not what makes a main character
desert yacht
I’m aware that that alone doesn’t make a main character
half pasture
I don't understand what's so hard to understand here
Tracer has had more focus than any other character
desert yacht
I just don’t feel comfortable putting tracer at main
half pasture
Ergo she is a main character
desert yacht
she just doesn’t seem important enough
as I was saying, would baptiste be secondary or tertiary
desert yacht
It’s an opinionated matter, depends on the perspective
half pasture
Importance isn't the primary focus here
peak escarp
Tracer is the focus of the story
limpid agate
The main plot is about Winston's new Overwatch
desert yacht
there’s no definition until stated by a lore writer
limpid agate
Where Tracer is the other most prominent member
half pasture
and shes the emotional core of several stories
desert yacht
Dva has gotten more focus than mercy though
desert yacht
is that an exception or something?
limpid agate
Screentime != Importance
desert yacht
I thought importance didn’t matter in this regard
vale junco
has the overwatch world not moved past doomfust stealing the gauntlet?
limpid agate
She is one of the best gamers in the world and currently one of the best pilots for MEKA
exotic furnace
sighs
limpid agate
She is not an eGirl
desert yacht
but she’s gotten more focus than mercy, which is what it seems the argument is
exotic furnace
my main gurl tracer is my fav
vale junco
most characters r side characters
limpid agate
Mercy plays an active role in two Overwatch operations we have seen as well as in the development of the Biotic Tech that is used by at least 4-5 heroes, as well as the care and current state of Genji.
D.Va is a celebrity mech pilot that hasn't met any of the cast
desert yacht
fan fiction has no place in the lore channel
exotic furnace
jeez so has mostly all of the healers has been using mercy's technology to heal others?
limpid agate
Ana, Baptiste, Soldier 76, Moira, and Mercy use the biotic tech.
vale junco
does winston have interactions w ball
limpid agate
@plucky cypress Don't randomly ping users to tell them to stfu, final warning.
I said final warning. Don't waste my time.
@vale junco Hammond, Ashe, and Baptiste barely have interactions so far
Ashe has a few with McCree
vale junco
winston should have some w ball
desert yacht
Hammond has one but I don’t know if we should really count it
limpid agate
Hammond is treated like Bastion where its more 1 way. Sombra has one about her teddy bear, Winston has one where he just says "Hammond?"
desert yacht
with Winston
exotic furnace
I feel like Winston and hammond will have sum interactions since they come from the same place
peak escarp
they will have interactions eventually
they usually come in batches
we haven't had a batch in a while
exotic furnace
but I doom fist and baptise to interact with other aswell
since spoiller alert Baptiste came from talon
vale junco
doom needs to try and recruit hammy
peak escarp
Baptiste and Sombra should have some too
exotic furnace
Baptiste and Moira should have sum to
but I wonder what would Moira would have to say to doom fist
vale junco
moira is talon now right
if yall think about it ow was corrupt af
and deserved to get shut down
peak escarp
@vale junco why would Doomfist recruit Hammond?
exotic furnace
Moira being in blackwatch then now being in Talon is kinda fishy
half pasture
everything about blackwatch is kinda fishy
exotic furnace
I think tracer had the most tragic origin story out of everyone
limpid agate
It is speculated that Moira was already working with Talon by the time of Retribution
limpid agate
@vale junco McCree and Hanzo are skilled outlaws with some of the best aim in the world. Hammond is a gladitorial mech champion. Trying to recruit him is like trying to recruit Zarya or Orisa. Hammond isn't an outlaw or criminal.
He might get an interaction with Ashe however.
peak escarp
McCree is a wanted criminal and a former Blackwatch agent personally trained by Reyes
desert yacht
Why do people see Hammond as a villain
peak escarp
Hanzo is a trained assassin
desert yacht
because he was said to be apart of the horizon rebellion?
limpid agate
He wasnt
desert yacht
I’m not saying he was, he was just speculated to be
pretty sure that speculation left a mark on most people
peak escarp
Hammond is just a mech champion from some redneck scrap town in the Australian outback
Doomfist would have no interest in him
desert yacht
but I do wonder why Hammond didn’t just ask Winston to go into his pod
exotic furnace
oof
desert yacht
I’m guessing talon wouldn’t be too interested in junkrat because of how much of a wild card he is
peak escarp
their goals don't match up
desert yacht
roadhog isn’t chaotic by nature, but I guess traveling with junkrat would give him a chaotic name
peak escarp
the fate of the Horizon colony probably isn't widely known
desert yacht
an interaction with Winston and Hammond could probably reveal why Hammond decided to attach himself to Winston’s pod unknowingly
Winston’s surprise from seeing Hammond is enough to confirm that Winston didn’t know
why do I love the Overwatch lore so much
really strong world building I guess
exotic furnace
it's kinda scary to think that the fate of horizon and nobody knows what happened up there
I'd be scared for dear life
desert yacht
it’s entirely possible that people on earth could’ve seen the cameras
actually I’m starting to doubt that
it appears that no one has responded yet
peak escarp
they know all the scientists were killed, they don't know the apes did it
peak escarp
Lucheng might have gotten the camera feed, but they probably wouldn't release it to the public
so Dr. Chow would know what happened
desert yacht
that would definitely not be public, that's too gruesome
well not gruesome i guess but
watching humans lives get lost
exotic furnace
but it's weird tho
the real question is
what caused the gorilla's to kill the scientists
worthy rose
Probably the experimentation
Based on the few images we got, and from Winston's own condition, we can infer that the apes were granted human level if not greater intelligence
vale junco
do we even know what hammys goals r
worthy rose
And you don't wanna be experimented on if you consider yourself more intelligent
desert yacht
is pharah a valid secondary character? or would she be in between that and tertiary
worthy rose
Just doing his own thing
He really just is roaming and exploring and seeing the world
how he is able to do that? No idea
I really don't understand how he can just walk around in a mech without issue
exotic furnace
he's very intelligent for a hamster sooooo
worthy rose
Pharah is a higher-end tertiary. Probably will come in at some point, but not for a bit.
desert yacht
i'm gonna say mercy is in between secondary and tertiary until we get her definite answer on recall
half pasture
I suspect hammond's goals aren't that complicated, break things, explore, have fun
that sort of thing
desert yacht
is ashe's direct connection to mccree enough to take her out of the full tetiary and make her borderline between that and secondary
limpid agate
You need to define main/primary/secondary/tertiary
Before trying to pick and choose who falls into what
Because Ashe is not important
desert yacht
well
limpid agate
She would be tertiary
limpid agate
Characters like Jack/Ana are rather important, and even they are no more than secondary characters in the present
exotic furnace
I'd say Tracer is off rip important to this game since she's in almost of these events
desert yacht
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/283389811056836618/577323440546250753/unknown.png this is what I have so far
limpid agate
Tracer is the main character
worthy rose
I agree @half pasture
desert yacht
due to the general opinion of tracer being main I put her up there, although it's not my own opinion
desert yacht
having a firearm doesn't make him good or bad
giving his mech a way to protect him is perfectly reasonable
any adjustments you'd make to my list, jewv?
the tiers aren't ordered
desert yacht
i mean pharah could be invited to overwatch, while I don't see that happening to the rest of the tertiaries
but I wouldn't put pharah as secondary
limpid agate
As of now, Pharah is not much more than Ana's daughter and a Helix captain
desert yacht
pharah says in interactions that she really wants to join overwatch
and with ana no longer on the overwatch board that's very probable
limpid agate
You can't rely on potential for that. As of now, Pharah isn't important
She can join in the future, sure. But right now she is just Pharah
You can make that argument for too many heroes
desert yacht
alright i'll delete that layer
limpid agate
While Pharah does get it the strongest, it would become hard to draw a line
desert yacht
Secondary + stays though, right?
limpid agate
I'd rename that to primary.
desert yacht
alright
limpid agate
And maybe put Rein/Torb up there too.
limpid agate
The main heroes are Tracer/Winston, and the main villains are Doomfist/Reaper.
limpid agate
Reaper being the Vader to Doomfist's Palpatine, the Saruman to Sauron, etc.
Couldn't think of a third duo like that for some reason
limpid agate
Don't try sorting your rows
desert yacht
the chart with the eye at the center makes be believe she's very important
limpid agate
That just becomes a headache
desert yacht
i mean i have it mostly sorted
cerulean tulip
Why is bastion so far up
desert yacht
bastion is highly likely to join overwatch with torb
limpid agate
Bastion is an accessory to Torbjorn.
cerulean tulip
Ok understood
exotic furnace
also cuz he's part of the omnic crisis
limpid agate
Bastion is to Torb as Brig is to Rein
desert yacht
^
exotic furnace
well
I think
it's either he was made to fight in it but never got the chance to, or was just the last bastion remaining
limpid agate
Its implied Bastion never fought in the crisis
In his short, he awakens in the ruins of a drop pod
limpid agate
I'm not gonna be picky on the order in rows. It seems fine.
desert yacht
yeah i think this list is good enough
desert yacht
we're moving more towards that
reunion and honor and glory both gave us current lore
reunion added 2 new characters, 1 having the potential to be one of the most important characters, and it also gave us an answer from mccree
cerulean tulip
Ya the events are slowly getting there
desert yacht
honor and glory gave us rein, another important character's answer, and with rein it gave us brig
exotic furnace
rein and torb gave us brig
peak escarp
here's how I see it:
primary = focus of the story
secondary = accessory to the main story or focus of a side story
tertiary = not connected to a main or side story
peak escarp
Chu has said they're almost done with the setup phase of the lore, and getting ready to move on with the main plot
desert yacht
sym is connected to a side story but i'd still call her tertiary
exotic furnace
I still don't know what what does storm rising has to do with the plot
all it revealed that doomfist is the leader of talon
cerulean tulip
It leads up to Singapore
Gives us a maximillian and the other Robot hero
And it also shows the status of talon at that time
peak escarp
Storm Rising shows the mission that led to them capturing Doomfist
they already knew Doomfist was a leader
it also seems to be one of the last missions before Overwatch fell apart
since we know the Swiss HQ blows up that same year and the Petras Act is passed a year later
exotic furnace
I think it happened after overwatch fell apart since retribution is what caused overwatch to fall so
peak escarp
Overwatch was officially disbanded 5 years ago when the Petras Act was passed
desert yacht
i wonder if doomfist will get a future skin referencing one of the other doomfists
peak escarp
but unofficially, it pretty much ended when Gabe and Jack 'died' in the Swiss HQ explosion 6 years ago
desert yacht
i could see him with a Scourge or Saviour skin
peak escarp
I don't think they would work
Scourge was left handed
Savior didnt have a gauntlet
same reason D.Va wont get skins of the other MEKA members - they don't match the character model
desert yacht
i meant inspired from
peak escarp
I wonder if we'll get another deathmatch map for Anniversary
and if it will be Singapore like a lot of people are expecting, based on Max's interrogation
left granite
I kinda wish more information regarding the MEKA members
regal coyote
@peak escarp i was always wodnering what thes the Petra Act actually do.
We know it bans all overwatch agent activities
btu what else
I mean surely it is unlikely to include banning of research and other humanitarian activities. Though funding might be severely cut
From what we know whiel some are under control of helix, places like winston's home still have ample power and is largely left intact
hasty surge
They might cut overwatch entirely and transfer those to another org
I doubt they would trust owerwatch to do those research after what happened to moria
viscid steeple
zenyatta
high thunder
are any of the anniversary skins that are lore related
high thunder
i want to see briggitte's training outfit as, like, an anniversary or archives skin (the one from her origin
mental void
I just want to see the devs make something like a pajama skin set. That's all.
peak escarp
peak escarp
the devs said it was the same
regal coyote
cause hmmm
using a soft training bat is not a reasonable weapon
it is like playing the game with a banana as a pistol, only if you are playing hard mdoea as a solid raptile
cunning ledge
hamster pls not again
limpid agate
I don't understand the point
No shit a soft training bat isn't a reasonable weapon
But its a skin. Who cares.
half pasture
Also it's a still a rocket flail ingame
peak escarp
a few of the canon skins have non-canon weapons
limpid agate
Yeah, with soft training edges on it
peak escarp
Pajamei, for example
proud lynx
I need a new skin for Roadhog though, feel like we haven't had one in a while
vale junco
i just want a skin for doom on the scale of formal
doomfish was ugly
talon was good
formal is beautiful
proud lynx
Doomfish was cool in its own way. It was supposed to be a call back to old monster movies like creature from the black lagoon.
proud lynx
Ugly in what way. Because he was a fish monster?
proud lynx
Where do we talk about this?
peak escarp
idk, general?
proud lynx
Huh. Ok
proud lynx
Yeah it would be cool to see him in some military attire
cunning ledge
i wonder if there's a way they could do him not massively fat
like he's got loads of pouches or ammo or something instead
rob liefeld style
peak escarp
why would he not be massive?
that doesn't have to be from the radiation
he could just be a naturally big guy
cunning ledge
his character model is still pretty uh
wide
i would be interested in a skin like that however they do it tbh
worthy rose
I read ALF as alf, as in that dumb puppet thing
gentle token
Same
worthy rose
No and how and why
limpid agate
They won't unless its Overwatch's last resort and there is money involved for the Junkers
worthy rose
Which like I doubt it
limpid agate
Money which Overwatch doesn't have
high thunder
k
exotic furnace
I would love to have Tracer’s condition one day
valid bolt
Tru
worthy rose
That would suck without a winston to help u
exotic furnace
Tru
valid bolt
Will Hammond meet winston and be like sqweaks”hello old friend, been a while” and just hug each other
exotic furnace
But think about the possibilities
valid bolt
that would be wholesome
exotic furnace
I can just teleport wherever the hell I want to teleport at
valid bolt
ye
limpid agate
Tracer's condition is uncontrollable without an anchor
And the technology for the anchor does not exist yet because the technology for the teleportation does not exist
So if you had Tracer's condition you would just blink out of existence until its invented, if anyone cares or acknowledges your existence by that point.
Which is unlikely. If you are lucky you might be acknowledged as a cryptid.
peak escarp
Tracer can't just teleport
she can rewind back to somewhere she's been, or blink forward to somewhere she will be
desert hawk
That would still be cool
quartz turtle
Kek.
boreal pendant
List of hot ow characters:
- D.Va
- Brig
- Widow
- Mercy
-- Ashe - Ana (young)
- Sombra
- Mei
- Tracer
- Pharah
- Symmetra
- Moira
Zarya
quartz turtle
Moira last
boreal pendant
@quartz turtle updated
boreal pendant
she too scary
gloomy geyser
she is gonna break your bones
gloomy geyser
lmao
boreal pendant
maybe she might be good in bed
gloomy geyser
ONONONONOON
boreal pendant
cause she good at sucking (grav)
boreal pendant
keep it pg
gloomy geyser
:)
boreal pendant
yes
boreal pendant
mei would make a good wife
she's smart
@gloomy geyser
and she'll make you hot cocoa
or cold cocoa
boreal pendant
what
gloomy geyser
and i hate being smol
worthy rose
!!loreonly
twilit nacelleBOT
This channel is for serious discussion strictly related to the lore of Overwatch. Shitposting will result in a loss of access.
gloomy geyser
its not shitposting
boreal pendant
oh.
gloomy geyser
its lore
quartz turtle
@boreal pendant loool
boreal pendant
@quartz turtle Thank you
peak escarp
rating the hotness of female heroes is not lore
fringe blade
i mean, depends on the definition of lore
limpid agate
No, it doesn't depend
That's not lore.
Shitposting will result in a loss of access.
tardy nebula
worthy rose
Still pretty far out there for "lore".
calm patio
wait, my friend wants to know this, but who has meat with who?
peak escarp
meat?
peak escarp
Ana is Pharah's mother
Torbjorn is Brigitte's father
several heroes are friends with each other
Mercy and Genji has a close friendship (possibly romantic)
Reinhardt is Brigitte's godfather
that's about it for relationships between heroes
gentle token
Symmetra works for the company that Lucio fought against if you wanna count that
And Torb found Bastion in the forest and is guarding him in a way
Along with a few other things
But family and (possible) romance wise Doctor_Six is right
Oh wait, he said other heroes are friends with each other, my bad lol
peak escarp
yeah, I didn't want to list of every set of friends
gentle token
And yes, Rein is Brigs godfather, and acts like an Uncle to her
Yeah it'd be a long list tbh
Well, longish
fringe blade
I always thought it was kind of a relationship based on honor and respect
Never knew they had an official relationship
peak escarp
it was part of her teasers
gentle token
Well yes that too. She is his engineer and idk remember the official knight name, but he mentors her and she helps work on his armor
peak escarp
fringe blade
They are big fans of each other, but I don't know if they met ever
calm patio
interesting
gentle token
Met, no. But I'm 99.99% sure they know of eachother
calm patio
i wonder if the will add dva's friend form the shooting star cinematic
peak escarp
Lucio may have heard of her, depending on how popular MEKA is outside of Korea
fringe blade
They wont add him, I am 99.99% sure
peak escarp
Dae-hyun doesn't seem like hero material
fringe blade
He is a secondary character
gentle token
Well Rein is a fan of her so I'm sure it's somewhat popular
peak escarp
he's more of a background character
fringe blade
I mean, D.VA is one of the main defenders of Korea, so she might've became popular that way. Also, she has her own soda and chips chains, right?
gentle token
And she is in multiple movies
calm patio
wiat, getme one of those
fringe blade
?
calm patio
i just want the chips
gentle token
Nano cola and d.vos (I think that's the name of her chips) are probably just that universes version of mountain dew and doritos tbh
Though I admit the heart shape chips are cute
calm patio
uwu it
fringe blade
Actually, just an irrelevant fun fact, the names of her common skins are energy drink flavors of hers
calm patio
OMG, lol
os i have blueberry
when i want a reaper skin
but all i get
is mei and torb voice lines
gentle token
Really? I didn't know that, that's cool
white cobalt
^was this linked already?
although isnt very loreish and more from a design point
peak escarp
decided to make an updated version of the relationship web someone made a while ago
I removed all the dead characters, and added the other named characters we've learned about
limpid agate
Shame some Talon heroes are too far for enemies
But it makes it simpler
Main things I would suggest is a Former Member tag between Overwatch and Blackwatch, and an Enemies tag between Reaper and Overwatch.
But that might be redundant
Also, no link between Torb/Bastion?
peak escarp
enemies between Reaper and Overwatch is a good one, since he's actively hunting them, rather than just passively being enemies
ah - I was going to put "it's complicated" between them and I forgot
thanks
the dotted lines are things that are likely but unconfirmed, but that should be obvious
fringe blade
Another bit of kind of useless trivia is that D.VA's mech is called Tokki
Sorry, just popped into my head
limpid agate
How about a more useless one, that D.Mon's mech is Beast
fringe blade
Also, would Efi really be an enemy of Doomfist?
limpid agate
Yes
peak escarp
or a less useless one - Casino's mech is called La Princess Sereine, which indicates he has a connection to Monaco
limpid agate
Alongside his name being Casino and his former profession being F1 racer
limpid agate
Only other thing is Predator/Null Sector but I get its only named characters
peak escarp
yeah
I tried to limit it to characters we had names and faces for, and were still alive/recently active
limpid agate
Or at least important ones. There are others who are insignificant
Like Emily or Fio
Maybe Emily has a place. You are filling space with a lot of random Helix agents
limpid agate
Especially given the lack of Anubis
I'd think he fits in more than Tariq or Saleh
Or that third guy
!!wiki Helix
twilit nacelleBOT
For more information about the game, please refer to the wiki: https://overwatch.gamepedia.com/Helix
limpid agate
Wow no disambiguation
whole plinth
@peak escarp dm me that pic
peak escarp
I'm still working on fixing it
peak escarp
friendship and possible romance
limpid agate
It's complicated, but yes
They are close, but they are also the only potential interhero romance
peak escarp
it hasn't been directly confirmed
peak escarp
they're friends
whole plinth
i think they can be a good ship
peak escarp
whole plinth
whats that
peak escarp
^ Reaper's interaction with Sombra on Oasis, talking about visiting Moira
peak escarp
Sombra: What are we doing here boss?
Reaper: I need to pay a visit to a friend.
worthy rose
I don't think either have time or interest in love
peak escarp
After Overwatch was disbanded, O'Deorain was forced to turn to unconventional sources of funding. This time, she was invited to join the scientific collective that had founded the city of Oasis.
it's mentioned in her bio
whole plinth
where is that from
limpid agate
!!loreHeroes
twilit nacelleBOT
To learn more, please visit https://playoverwatch.com/en-us/heroes/#story
peak escarp
whole plinth
ok
peak escarp
moved things around a bit
peak escarp
I was working from a web someone else had made, but it hadn't been updated since Brigitte and it included dead characters
whole plinth
you really should watermark that
a lot of overewathc insta pages will post that probably
overwatch#
whole plinth
i didnt know
well i have a quistion
how does the genji skin timeline works
genji gets attacked by hanzo
then the attack in kings row
blackwatch suit
then when he gets his classic skun
?
peak escarp
~age 20-25 (~15-10 years ago): Genji is nearly killed in a fight with his brother after Hanzo tries to get him to join him in leading the Shimada clan. Genji is saved by Overwatch and given a new body in exchange for his cooperation in dismantling the Shimada clan.
age 27 (8 years ago): Genji participated in a failed mission to kidnap Talon leader Antonio Bartalotti, which would later be known as the Venice Incident.
age 29 (6 years ago): Genji joins Mercy, Tracer and Winston on an Overwatch mission to Havana to gather incriminating evidence against Doomfist, before going after Doomfist himself three weeks later.
age 30-35 (5 years ago to present day): Genji travels the world searching for inner peace, and finds a former Shambali monk named Zenyatta who helps him find peace with both sides of himself.
age 35 (present day): Genji confronts his brother and reveals that he is alive. He tells Hanzo to choose a side, implying that Genji has decided to answer the recall.
peak escarp
he got his current appearance 7-6 years ago, between Uprising and Storm Rising
whole plinth
but we saw his blackwatch suit in zens place
at the reflection comics
he wrote a letter
whole plinth
theyremoved the tracer emily kiss
oh
wierd
wheird
i rememberd that diffrent
btw sorry for my english
peak escarp
you're fine
peak escarp
as long as you're willing to learn, we're willing to teach
whole plinth
thx anyway
love this server
yeah but why did yhet re,ove the tracer kuss
they
kiss
limpid agate
They didn't?
whole plinth
idk my computer just showes a white cube
limpid agate
Are you reading the comic
whole plinth
yes
limpid agate
In what language
whole plinth
english
limpid agate
Seems to be working for me
Are you reading the pdf from the Blizzard website or from pins?
limpid agate
It's still there
whole plinth
yeah its back
worthy rose
Doctor_Six didn't want to ping but I think you missed a blue between Torby and Brig.
limpid agate
Also a couple more redundant suggestions
desert yacht
would winston and emily count as friends?
limpid agate
torb/Genji could use grey lines between them and Overwatch under the dotted black
Like with Mercy/Genjis double layer
desert yacht
also torb and brigitte dont have a family line
oh whoops that was pointed out
sorry
i still find it cool how everyone but dva has some kind of connection to overwatch
especially how junkrat is connected to road, who is connected to bruce, who is connected to hammond, who is connected to winston, therefore all connected to overwatch
limpid agate
Some of those are barely connections
desert yacht
still there
limpid agate
If you need to go past 3 degrees it's a stretch
desert yacht
eh, i was just going by graph
also what's with the 'It's complicated' between D.va and glasses boy
peak escarp
DVa, Lucio and the Junkers are the farthest removed from Overwatch
desert yacht
zarya too
desert yacht
mk
limpid agate
Missing Dae-Hyun but no one cares about him
peak escarp
I didn't want to make a new colour for every unique relationship, so "It's complicated" covers the fringe cases
desert yacht
zarya technically not by one degree i guess
yeah i can see that
i get that mercy is in the torb family dynamic, but she doesn't have a title like reinhardt so imo, it'd be better to just put green for her
limpid agate
It's dotted because it's speculated he adopted her
desert yacht
i know it's insignificant but i think graphs like these are cool and want it to be as accurate as possible
so maybe green with light blue dots on it?
desert yacht
eh, that's fair i guess
i know she's gotten apple pie from ingrid, but has she stayed at the lindholm household for an extended period of time?
peak escarp
she visited Torbjorn in the hospital when she was a teenager, and again came to visit him at the OW HQ when she was in college
limpid agate
She was close to them since she was a child orphan after the crisis ended, back when she was ~~11(?)~~13
How old is Brig?
23
desert yacht
isn't she 23 or 26?
peak escarp
and even though she's not part of the core OW leadership, she was at the Halloween party in Junkensten
desert yacht
alright
limpid agate
13
desert yacht
so why was the speculated friendship between brig and pharah removed from the latest 2?
insignificant?
or just convenience on the graph
peak escarp
there's too many other people in the way to draw a straight line between them, and it wasn't something with strong evidence anyway
just a couple of interactions
desert yacht
feels more like a "we have something in common" than an actual friendship anyways
peak escarp
yeah
desert yacht
is it known who the person on the very left of the photo in ana's origin story is?
the photo with sojourn, ana, reyes, rein, jack, mercy, etc.
peak escarp
not likely
there's speculation that he's one of the people sitting at the Talon council table in Masquerade
desert yacht
i can see that
although you'd think he'd look a bit older
kinda reminds me of the graph sombra made
spiral yarrow
But what about reaper being a former ow agent? He commanded ow during the omnic crisis but now it just says enemies
limpid agate
There are no multicolored lines
spiral yarrow
Yeah but still
limpid agate
Blackwatch is Overwatch
spiral yarrow
Meh
;-; oh no shit
But its just
Not that clear
It now looks like everything is based off NOW and not a bit of backstory-like
limpid agate
It's also a limitation with this interface
edgy relic
I wouldn't object to one or two curved lines in that diagram, if a factual connection exists.
regal coyote
@peak escarp nice work. Why is Hana "its complicated" with one of the other pilot softboi though?
also not sure if the genmercy thing is gonna fly, keeping them at friendship is nice.
not sure for Echo being member
devout sable
@peak escarp isn't it better to use the sprays for Ingrid and Emily?
or alternatively, Brigitte origin story for Ingrid?
tawny patio
On the chart of connections earlier what makes a dotted line vs a solid line
worthy rose
Possible vs. confirmed. Torby is probably going back to overwatch with Bastion, but it's only probably.
peak escarp
@regal coyote DVa and King are rivals, and since I don't have a specific colour for every unique relationship, I used "It's complicated" as a catch-all for anything not covered by the other categories
@devout sable I used whatever image was used on their Gamepedia article
regal coyote
friendly rivaly is considered "its complicated" then it makes sense
hasty surge
Genji and Mercy dotted friends?
peak escarp
they are friends and possibly romantic partners (unconfirmed)
regal coyote
i am not tatally against the dotted pink, but at least the green is a definite, theya re still in contact old school hand written dm style.
i mean letters, that what people used to call it
also, Alejandra might be simple enough wotk get stuck between Zayr and Sombra, there is room
worthy rose
hmm, apologies I dont frequent here often but torb and mercy are family?
regal coyote
there is about all the named characters with names and a face
@worthy rose mind as well be, though not by blood
peak escarp
Mercy is a close friend of the Lindholm family, and she visited him in the hospital when she was a child
regal coyote
theya re extremely close from a young age
worthy rose
ah, got it. Thanks
peak escarp
it's unconfirmed, but there's speculation she might have been adopted by the Lindholms
peak escarp
I don't know what relationship I'd put for Alejandra
she isn't friends with anyone, they've barely met
regal coyote
come to think of it, torb have most connectin of all
yeah hard to place Alejandra then
peak escarp
I guess I could put 'friends' (dotted) between her and Sombra
worthy rose
Hugs
desert yacht
Friends with the family but not with any of them individually?
Saying that she’s one of the few people that torb doesn’t yell at angrily, I’d consider that friendly from him
But i guess it would be inconvenient to make a green line between her and everyone in the family
peak escarp
I figure I'd just do it with Torb since he's the head of the family
desert yacht
Would it be too far to put blackwatch as a former member of overwatch?
I feel there should be some established connection from blackwatch to overwatch besides genji
peak escarp
that would work
I'm at work right now though so any changes will have to wait until tonight
regal coyote
i dont think it is needed, except mybe genji
fickle sail
jeeze you made that chart, Doc? thats insane! well done. also, it Alejandra the little girl from the Zarya comic that leads her and the omnic to sombra?
iron plume
yes
fickle sail
okay cool, thanks.
id say Alejandra would have a friendly connection with sombra, a friendly connecton with soldier (due to soldiers Animated short) and a friendly connection to Zarya (due to the Comic). after that im not really sure where else she fits in. i may be wrong too of course.
iron plume
pharmercy shippers do
peak escarp
friendly isn't Friends
but I am going to add a dotted friends line from her to Sombra in the next version
agile pulsar
is it true that hanzo is a virgin?
worthy rose
why would u need to know that?
regal coyote
why does it matter. it is not like if he is 40 yo and virgin he becomes a wizard
limpid agate
There should be a better and more dynamic way of doing this
Because this chart is gonna just become a mess
@peak escarp What tool are you using for this
peak escarp
just photoshop
when I need to make changes I have to move everything manually
it would be nice it there was a way to just move the characters and have the lines update dynamically
fickle sail
yeah i guess, i just said friendly for soldier and zarya as alejandra has met them and isnt against them or anything. didnt know how else to show that theyve met, unless theyre under the "Its Complicated" section
peak escarp
a lot of them have met but don't have a relationship that goes farther than that
I was counting just significant relationships that are more than just acquaintances
fickle sail
ah okay i see. good point
limpid agate
@peak escarp Try https://www.draw.io/
Its what I've used for my tierlists
Its designed more for flow charts and other diagrams, but can be very versatile and useful
gentle token
I was just about to recommend that too. It works great and I've used it for multiple projects for school. It's amazing
desert hawk
@peak escarp another thing you could use is adobe animate, and create a skeleton with all the lines and ppl, so the line move when the ppl move(but it costs money so unless u already have it, I wouldn’t suggest it)
desert yacht
didn’t Alejandra give away sombra’s position?
doesn’t sound very friendlike to me
especially giving it away to someone who has a particle cannon and says that sombra has done something wrong
exotic furnace
can we just talk about
how tracer's origin story is the most unrealistic out of everyone's
desert yacht
Doomfist
peak escarp
Alejandra thought she was doing a good thing
she wanted to be a hero
if you were a young impressionable child and someone told you that your friend did something bad, and you'd be a hero if you told someone where they were, youd probably snitch too
exotic furnace
actually I wouldn't cuz I stick up 4 my friends
even if they do something wrong
jk I'd snitch
exotic furnace
oof
peak escarp
he was Jack's boyfriend 30 years ago
he's not a member of any major groups, he doesn't have a relationship with anyone else
he is irrelevant
at least Emily is present day and knows Winston
vale junco
u should add tracer
iron plume
tracer is there?
peak escarp
people have also suggest other characters, but they're either dead, irrelevant or we don't have a face for them
peak escarp
not any weirder than if he was straight
exotic furnace
I mean im comfortable with tracer being gay cuz she was like this from the start
iron plume
they both were
tracer was just revealed earlier
"earlier" still not being before/at release
exotic furnace
no they just came outta nowhere and announced solider was gay
peak escarp
it's not like he suddenly became gay when they announced it - he was gay all along, we just didn't know it
peak escarp
it's as normal as finding out someone you've been talking online with was a girl all along
exotic furnace
oof
worthy rose
😄
remote drum
hey, this is a personal attack on gamer boys not all of us have talked to girls 😤
peak escarp
well you have now
a reveal like that would only be bad if they had already established that Jack had dated women
because then that would be a retcon
wanton seal
ok idk where to start, i wanna read OW stuff
calm patio
who is fack?
iron plume
!!lorecomics
twilit nacelleBOT
Comics:
Train Hopper: https://bit.ly/2vaOY0I
Dragon Slayer: https://bit.ly/2GpRZRk
Going Legit: https://bit.ly/2InZUkm
A Better World: https://bit.ly/2DeJGpK
Mission Statement: https://bit.ly/2UFLC5o
Destroyer: https://bit.ly/2XcYZ9G
Legacy: https://bit.ly/2DgM1jQ
Old Soldiers: https://bit.ly/2KLILTV
Junkenstein: https://bit.ly/2Is3WZ4
Reflections: https://bit.ly/2IoZQkr
Binary: https://bit.ly/2IzNvJy
Uprising: https://bit.ly/2UCymhE
Masquerade: https://bit.ly/2IzNTI0
Wasted Land: https://bit.ly/2DeKB9G
Searching: https://bit.ly/2Gh3jy6
Retribution: https://bit.ly/2XePmHG
Mini-Comics:
Return of Junkenstein: https://bit.ly/2Gqp7Z8
Yeti Hunt: https://bit.ly/2VPmxRI
wanton seal
ohh thanks!
desert yacht
“it's as normal as finding out someone you've been talking online with was a girl all along”
lol nice
i see what you did there
peak escarp
😉
desert hawk
Man, I wish girls talked to me irl
valid shell
@open willow Yes?
open willow
hi 
peak escarp
!!loreonly
twilit nacelleBOT
This channel is for serious discussion strictly related to the lore of Overwatch. Shitposting will result in a loss of access.
fringe blade
Honestly though, I feel like Tracer's origin and her time manipulation seems like one of the biggest stretches
worthy rose
Meh
I'll take sci-fi
tho I really don't understand the time factor in her condition
like at all
she can rewind to her physical condition of something but what if there was something in the way? would she just be like displaced and die if someone puts like something where she recalls or what
mental blade
hasty surge
@peak escarp that was a good map but I realised without zooming in looks like an orange with dotted green. I apologise for the mistake, I'm not sure putting the lines side by side would be better. Again another problem as it makes the line too thick
Not sure if anyone seen the same without zooming in
And I will link moria with mercy too
peak escarp
would Ana and Reaper be considered enemies?
gentle token
I'd say yes. They are against each other in the long run
broken ravine
ana doesnt want to kill reaper tho
she just feels like she has to now
cuz hes so bad
gentle token
True, she does want to stop him though which is the main point
broken ravine
ye
fringe blade
Did Ana know that Widow was Lacroix when she was shot in the eye?
fringe blade
Was she the only prominent Overwatch sniper?
karmic drum
Zenyatta lore connects to real life Buddhism lore with Sanzang.
"Tang Sanzang is helpless in defending himself and his two escorts are killed during his first encounter with demons after his departure from Chang'an. The bodhisattva Avalokiteśvara (Guanyin) helps Tang Sanzang find three powerful supernatural beings – Sun Wukong (Winston), Zhu Bajie (Roadhog) and Sha Wujing (Reinhardt) – to aid and protect him on his journey. The three become Tang Sanzang's disciples and receive enlightenment and redemption for their past sins once the pilgrimage is complete. Along the journey, Tang Sanzang is constantly terrorised by monsters and demons because of a legend which says that one can attain immortality by consuming his flesh because he is a reincarnation of a holy being."
At the end of the novel, Tang Sanzang is appointed as the Buddha of Sandalwood Merit
In the novel, Tang Sanzang is a Chinese Buddhist monk who had renounced his family to join the Sangha from childhood. He is actually a reincarnation of Golden Cicada (simplified Chinese: 金蝉子; traditional Chinese: 金蟬子; pinyin: Jīn Chánzǐ), a disciple of the Buddha. He is sent on a mission to Tianzhu (an ancient Chinese name for India) to fetch a set of Buddhist scriptures back to China for the purpose of spreading Buddhism in his native land. He becomes sworn brothers with Emperor Taizong of the Tang Dynasty, and the emperor sees him off from the capital Chang'an and orders two escorts to accompany him.
limpid agate
The real Sanzang has more parallels with Mondatta if anyone.
There really isnt a link between Journey to the West Sanzang and Zenyatta other than the skin.
And Buddhism in general
hasty surge
@peak escarp cause mercy shut down her research, overwatch presumably mercy. And from their interaction there's alittle spike. You probably can argue that it's not enough to an enemy
peak escarp
it wasn't specifically Mercy that shut down her research
just Overwatch
and interactions don't accurately reflect who has met or not
hasty surge
Okay
And for Ana and Jack vs Reyes I would probably put dotted enemies with dotted friends? Or you probably put complicated. After all they are former friends turned against each other
The difference with Mercy vs Moria is that they were not former friends and they probably dislike each other
peak escarp
relationship web 2.0
moved some heroes around so I could put relationships between them without crossing over anything
peak escarp
Alyssa Wong: Baptiste and Sombra met for the first time while both were working for Talon. Over time, they became good friends. Sombra likes to keep an eye on everything, but she’s also looking out for Baptiste, even though he left Talon. It’s always nice to see what her old buddy has been up to.
worthy rose
Does Widow count as an enemy of Overwatch like Reaper? Or maybe just have the enmity between OW and Talon?
peak escarp
it's more to represent the fact that Reaper is actively hunting Overwatch members
worthy rose
Ah
peak escarp
rather than just the passive animosity between Overwatch and Talon
worthy rose
Makes sense that way.
peak escarp
it's interesting that most of the "it's complicated" lines are connected to villain characters
limpid agate
Is this still photoshop
desert yacht
maybe add a dotted it's complicated for ana and pharah
pale sigil
What do the dots mean?
desert yacht
speculation
whole plinth
is jeff in this server?
desert yacht
also the only way to have 2 lines for the same 2 people
peak escarp
I've thought about doing 2 colours for lines, but I decided to just go with the most "important" relationship
the legend on the side is kinda the priority I used
desert yacht
well i don't think ana and pharah have fully resolved their issues, and genji and hanzo have the same exact pattern
gentle token
Pharah and Ana mostly just have parent and child issues.
Genji and Hanzo almost ended in murder.
Both are complicated, but one more so than the other.
Does Pharah know Ana is alive?
limpid agate
Yes
desert yacht
if reaper and widow's relationship counts as complicated then surely pharah and ana's does
limpid agate
Hardly
Ana and Pharah are family, but Pharah just answering Ana's calls.
What would you describe Reaper/Widows relationship as
spiral yarrow
Weird
No legit its weird
Shes a purple blueberry, hes a edgy edgylord
How can that be normal
gentle token
Idk, I never really thought of Reaper and Widow having a relationship other than just teammates when need be
peak escarp
Reyes was good friends with her husband
Reaper knows she was Amelie Lacroix
so it's complicated
gentle token
Yeah, that makes sense
desert yacht
we haven't seen any proof of that affecting their relationship though
we've never seen reaper treat widow as anything more than a teammate, or vice versa
yeah he may have different inner thoughts about her, but that still doesn't affect their relationship
from what i know, ana and fareeha had a strained relationship, and in almost all her interactions with other heroes where the topic of ana came up, pharah seems to get negative
it's your list so it's your decision, but i think dotted 'It's complicated' lines would work best for both relationships
spiral yarrow
True
Id actually also say “it’s complicated” for 76 and reaper cause ye know, switzerland hehe
peak escarp
how does Switzerland make it complicated?
they tried to kill each other, and they're still trying to kill each other
desert yacht
it started off as friends, and i'd say a few years before retribution probably it turned to it's complicated
and starting at switzerland it became enemies
hasty surge
Reaper should still be dotted grey or even grey since he is a former member
desert yacht
he's grey with blackwatch
hasty surge
Since you aren't doing double lines probably dotted grey
desert yacht
anyone grey with blackwatch is grey with overwatch
peak escarp
the idea was to have the most important relationship take priority
hasty surge
Not gonna inculde eco watch?
peak escarp
they're all dead
desert yacht
this graph doesn't need anymore sub categories with a ton of filler characters
also that
she'd have to put in like 7 more unimportant characters
don't remember the exact number
peak escarp
I chose to only include characters who are active and who have relationships to list
DVa and King are rivals
hasty surge
I mean you listed 5 characters who are related to the junkers
And are all in the same area
Might as well?
peak escarp
5 characters?
hasty surge
Queen hammond that guy that sells weapons to hog, hog and junkrat
How do we know dva and king are rivals?
peak escarp
Junkrat, Roadhog and Hammond are playable characters
Junker Queen is a significant NPC
Bruce is a minor NPC but the only possible link between the Junkers and the rest of the cast
D.Va also has close ties to the rest of her squad, who include her former main esports rival Kyung-soo (“King”) and one of her former clanmates, tough and protective Yuna (“D.mon”). The other two members are the squad’s maknae, Seung-hwa (“Overlord”) and the flashy Jae-Eun (“Casino”, a former racing driver). Finally, there’s their commanding officer, Captain Myung (who you hear over the comms in the MEKA base part of the Busan map).
decided to get rid of double lines
flint harbor
should ana and widow have an 'it's complicated' connection? i mean widow DID shoot out ana's eye
worthy rose
Enemies, if anything.
hasty surge
It's complicated. They knew each other formerly
worthy rose
It's pinned though