@iron plume u ok
#lore-discussion
valid shell
peak escarp
limb regeneration isn't a thing either
iron plume
You're the one asking me that question
valid shell
ye
neon wraith
not yet anyways
peak escarp
Angela dreamed of regenerating limbs as a teen
maybe some day she'll achieve that dream
iron plume
we don't know about her regeneration abilities
she may well have reached it by the present
we know she didn't when Torb and Genji were affected
or at least not to the extent that Genji would need it
valid shell
Also, prosthetics might just be the better option than regrowing a new limb.
iron plume
likely when McCree lost his
valid shell
It might take months or years to regrow a new arm, probably in a tube, and then twice as long in physical therapy to learn how to articulate it.
Slapping on a prosthetic is probably much quicker.
worthy rose
also better aesthetic
iron plume
if we're going for realistic timelines, it'd take the same amount of time to learn to articulate the prosthetic
if not more
peak escarp
it could be a literal arms race between the medical field, trying to improve tissue regen, and the prosthetics companies, trying to make their limbs top of the line and better than flesh and blood
iron plume
I don't think it'd be much of a concern if they wanted to have a character with a regrown limb
iron plume
I doubt Apex has anything to do with it
it's just a racing reference on his skin related to monaco
valid shell
Shame. It would be a fitting name.
worthy rose
Arms race
kek
Do you think those facilities would ever skip leg day?
Or they wouldn't have the heart to bear it?
limpid agate
That's enough puns.
worthy rose
So omniums are sentient, or just the omnics they produce?
worthy rose
Just the omnics.
The omniums are giant factories.
Actually, they may have an AI to control things, we haven't been told.
please blizzard
give us the best april fools ever and give us the archives event teasers
lament seal
hey according to the lore reaper leaves strange marks on his prey
and also the deadbodies are empty husks
like life wasa drainede from them
peak escarp
his guns do necrotic damage and can drain vitality from those he kills
lament seal
but like in game i would propose he should have an anti heal effect on targets
like 50% reduced healing to those he hits
and his lifesteal can go back to 25% to balance it out
we need more antiheals to kill of 3-3
worthy rose
Not the place for this. But I think they could nerf damage and give a lifesteal DoT effect on hit.
shotgun-> sustained dmg?
dapper shuttle
Last year's mural in Melbourne, did they start painting on april 1st?
I know that they started painting the Blackwatch skins on top of the classic ones for mccree and genji on the 4th
dapper shuttle
Hey so, not concrete lore but since we're really close to the new Archives event it might be important, on PTR right now you can walk through the roof of THIS MODEL of jeep, on Numbani. So far, no other cars on other maps are glitched this way. Devs probably used this model in archives
supple bear
This is a wild theory, but what if we can drive vehicles in this upcoming archives event?
teal meadow
i think it's just a glitch
valid shell
@wet fractal What?
wet fractal
do you not get it
valid shell
<@&397922982632226816>
tall geyser
wet fractal
teal meadow
valid shell
@teal meadow ?
limpid agate
This isn't an emote channel.
worthy rose
What if Reaper is a good guy and is a double agent sabotaging Talon?
who would he be double agenting for
and how would he climb the ladder of talon to be one of it's leaders by failing missions since he's supposed to sabotage them
chilly peak
and it is confirmed that he KILLED ex-Overwatch agents. Cool double agent xD
worthy rose
But I do have a theory
Which by any means feel free to argue and find flaws with it
What if after the fall of the swiss HQ, he joined Talon for the sake of taking it over; hear me out.
From a motivational perspective, Gabriel Reyes hates Talon; they killed a crap ton of blackwatch and overwatch members and nearly killed gerard which sparked the retribution event. At this point in time it is very easy to see that Gabriel despises Talon
Fast forward to the fall of overwatch, this organization that he worked to keep the peace has basically been destroyed
The swissHQ got destroyed and around this time i gerard was dead (not from this specific incident but prior)
Gabriel with nothing to lose and probably his reaper powers goes to Talon with a vengeance probably going to one man army it
But sees that his friend’s wife, widowmaker being used as a tool so he doesn’t outright kill her or anything and instead develops a plan
Climb the ranks and take it all over; Talon is a bad organization and has multiple leaders; my theory is that his personal plan is to not serve doomfist or a council but instead eventually taking them out and becoming it’s leader, it’s main leader like the way doomfist is now and instead of doing what Talon does, use it like blackwatch but much harder on all the tactics used prior; to do what needs to be done with no restrictions
He breaks out doomfist to eventually win his trust since doomfist commands an impressive amount of respect despite being out of the picture for a long time
Whether or not Moira had joined previously or after I don’t think necessarily matters in that she and reaper are at least on good terms with each other and her goal is to further her own research
And I think this idea would explain the former black watch agents turning over to Talon’s side as noticed in the McCree comic; former agents to sympathize with Reyes and his ambitions
@worthy rose
had to go up and copy and paste this
peak escarp
maybe you should rewrite it into a coherent paragraph and save it somewhere so you can just share that whenever someone asks
worthy rose
Yea I will sorry Doc, just kinda juggling this and multiple homeworks cause today is exam day and lots of hw is due
devout sable
@worthy rose the old leadership is already gone anyway
he killed Antionio himself, Adayemi and Vialli were killed by Akande,
worthy rose
@worthy rose thank you, I like that theory
limpid agate
Max is the highest ranking member we know of thats still alive
The scourge was never leadership
devout sable
personally I'm inclined to think that Reaper is genuine in his desire for revenge against Overwatch
especially since as @chilly peak said, he is hunting down former Overwatch agents
worthy rose
Yea but he didn't kill Antonio for the sake of climbing the ladder and Talon's forces had a power vacuum of which the current Doomfist, Maxi, and other members came in to fill in the void Antonio left behind and as it stands currently Doomfist seems to be the main defacto leader calling the shots. It was a council and Reaper's goal is to basically protect the world at the end of the retribution comic with no rules stopping him; By eventually killing off the current leadership so he can have the power and backing of talon to do what he wanted as well as taking revenge on the organization that destroyed Overwatch to begin with
I'm not inclined to believe that desire for revenge because there's nothing to get revenge over; Besides being reprimanded during his reckless behavior in retribution, there wasn't anything that warrants vengeance
devout sable
I think he blames Jack and Overwatch for what happened at the HQ...?
worthy rose
where'd u get that idea? And are you talking about the swiss or are you talking about the Blackwatch one?
devout sable
talking about the Swiss HQ of course
peak escarp
Reaper wants revenge against Overwatch
worthy rose
Why would he blame jack for what happened at the HQ being destroyed?
peak escarp
he says so himself
"[Jack] did this to me, Ana. [Overwatch] left me to become this thing."
worthy rose
That's the pronoun game and I hate it; Overwatch wouldn't have let Reaper become Reaper especially since we know from the Jack and Moira voice line that Jack didn't want/know of Moira's involvement with blackwatch/reaper
devout sable
I believe that Reyes' state only became erratic and unstable due to the damage he sustained in the Swiss HQ explosion
worthy rose
And even if that were the case, Overwatch would literally have no involvement and Reaper's vendetta would be strongly against Jack
devout sable
so if he believes that Overwatch and Jack are responsible for the explosion, it's no wonder he'd blame them
worthy rose
I don't like that argument; It's defaulting to the idea that Moira's experiments messed with his head and then he becomes a victim of circumstance who wrongly blames people
peak escarp
I always saw it as Reaper blaming Overwatch for not trying harder to find him after the explosion
devout sable
we don't really know the details of what happened there; we don't know why Reyes and Morrison clashed, and what caused the explosion
and that is definitely crucial to Reyes' motivations
worthy rose
No Slignerd, I mean Reaper is a super soldier with the moira experiments, a common argument i hear from ppl who speculate why reaper joined talon was because of moira's experiments messing with his head but you're argument is that the explosion messed him up and messed with his psyche which I don't like because that would mean reaper is once again a victim of circumstance and all those former crucial motivations that led him to protect the world, to kill antonio for harming and killing his fellow overwatch and blackwatch members would mean literally nothing which I don't think is where they're going
devout sable
people don't always make good decisions
and people can make irrational decisions based on false premises
also, it's... pretty clear that his current state affects his psyche, too
worthy rose
Yea but I trust Reaper is intelligent enough to know the conditions and circumstances; he's smart enough to know talon was likely behind the destruction which we get from the Soldier origin story where he mentions that overwatch was taken apart by internal and external forces which I can only imagine to be Talon's intricate infiltration of world governments and powerful corporations as we see with Antonio and Vishkar
And from majority of the voice lines we see in game of him he doesn't seem erratic, or a brainless monster under Talon's thumb. And the fact that Reaper has former blackwatch agents who are working as Talon agents means to me that he still has their respect. From a motivational standpoint it doesn't work for me cause it would mean he'd have to discard all his beliefs and motivations prior
peak escarp
he wasn't motivated to kill Antonio
it was an impusle decision - he was going to kidnap him
the former Blackwatch agents working for Talon probably don't know that he's Reyes
they're probably just afraid of Reaper the mercenary, like everyone else is
rugged raptor
worthy rose
But why would they join Talon, who prior they were tasked to bring down and protect the world; I haven't really seen any member current or prior who had an issue with that belief and we often see a good vast majority of ppl in Overwatch/Blackwatch, moira being an exception, are good people who want to protect the world; to join the organization that you were fighting against doesn't make much sense from a motivational perspective to me unless they did it because they believed Reaper was still a good man and that they knew it was him
peak escarp
like Baptiste, they probably just went where the work was
Talon marketed itself as a mercenary company, which might look appealing to former soldiers
Baptiste is the perfect example of this
worthy rose
Yea but that's an issue timeline wise
peak escarp
how so?
worthy rose
Talon during Baptiste's time of joining wasn't known as a terrorist organization
Talon Post fall of Swiss HQ was very much known as a terrorist organization
peak escarp
Talon probably doesn't recruit people under the name of Talon
if they were smart, they'd use shell organizations
so people didn't realize who they were working for until it was too late
and how do we know Talon wasn't a known terrorist organization when Baptiste joined?
worthy rose
Doc I'd be inclined to believe you, but the grunts literally wear the talon logo even from baptiste's time; I wouldn't be inclined to believe that the people who worked for Overwatch wouldn't be able to discern Talon activity atleast a bit
Gimme a sec to find it
peak escarp
people go where the money is
some people are less picky about it
this makes it sound like Reaper's true identity is something very few people actually know
worthy rose
talks about lore
"Baptiste wouldn't have the same view and knowledge of Talon as we do now. Talon's public face, especially the one they'd show to prospective recruits like Baptiste, would be as a well-paying mercenary group that took on security missions that were sanctioned by official organizations or corporations"
peak escarp
yes, I can read
worthy rose
"As we do now" being the key words in this, I'd say people are much more aware of what Talon is like now
peak escarp
okay
but it's still very unlikely that random Talon grunts are going to know that Reaper is Reyes
some Blackwatch agents might have turned against Overwatch after they got shut down following the Venice Incident
Talon would be a place for them to use their skill without restriction, just like Blackwatch
worthy rose
I buy the money thing because some people do be like that but it still is a huge pill to swallow especially since I'd imagine there were other opportunities such as Pharah's defense company that she works for; and while the canonicity is questionable of this voice line, Pharah asking Tracer to join Helix as a pilot, while specific doesn't mean other positions aren't available especially all over the world as Overwatch was an international organization
dense estuary
Helix is probably a lot harder to join
dense estuary
or maybe they just did not recruit down in that part of the world
peak escarp
Blackwatch wasn't the place for the do-gooders and optimistic people - that was main Overwatch
Blackwatch was staffed by people who were okay with assassination, torture, kidnapping, etc.
that seems like the type of person Talon would recruit
dense estuary
But plenty of companies have a good pitch but once you are neck deep you realize they are evil. Think of all the people who get suckered into Multi-Level Marketing schemes like Amway with the promise of "Make 15k a month working from home"
worthy rose
Yea but the end goal was to do good, to stop people who were going to do even bigger harm to the world showing good intentions. Genji and McCree at the very least seem very Chaotic Good more than the typical Lawful good you'd arguably see with the main Overwatch members at the time
peak escarp
2 people is not a very large sample size
worthy rose
Yea but Gabriel at the time was like that as well and we don't get to see many black watch members
besides the retribution cast and the pilot
of which Gabriel was in charge of
dense estuary
all of Talon is not even what id call evil, Moira for example lacks morals in the sciences. But so far shes not gone full mustache twisting.
worthy rose
and to you @dense estuary overwatch doesn't just hire people like that; Like genuinely everyone in Overwatch has seemed remarkable in some shape or form
Tracer being an example of being it's youngest member
or youngest agent
I can't remember
dense estuary
youngest member when recruited
worthy rose
And the overwatch agents we do see
are in the field who seemingly Ana backs up and cares for in the comic where she duels widow
I'm taking that as "These are good people because one of the established good people we know really vouches and cares for them"
I wonder what would happen if Widow threw off the brainwashing
@worthy rose The problem is that your theory sounds more like a conclusion (Reaper being a double agent) with plausible explanations filled in rather than logical steps with a few assumptions or educated guesses leading to a conclusion.
Many Blackwatch agents were there because they wanted money, didn't have morals, and could keep a secret.
What would you suggest because I'm trying to perceive why someone as righteous as Gabriel Reyes would turn over to Talon whom we see during Overwatch's time hate Talon with a passion; And that's a generalization of the black watch agent's when they were working for the good guys whom I doubt paid handsomely when compared to illegal enterprises like Talon would have initially
peak escarp
righteous?
worthy rose
He strikes me as a righteous fury type of guy; You do good because it's good and no other reason to it, rules and all be damned
Or at least, those were the kind of people that Reyes was willing to recruit, judging by Moira.
Didn't reaper recruit moira to solve a genetic issue or anomaly he had?
peak escarp
he doesn't seem rightous to me - that sounds more like Jack
worthy rose
And Retribution made him seem more like a plain fury guy.
peak escarp
Reyes seems more like the person who does what needs doing
worthy rose
And no, we don't know of any genetic issues Reyes has or had.
Avenging your friend and killing the guy who boasts that nothing you could do would ever bring him to the law because the law doesn't work? That doesn't seem like righteous fury?
peak escarp
that was an impulse action
worthy rose
Antonio literally taunted him about how untouchable he was.
Still impulse based on the correct thought process of "He's right; He will get away if we do this by the book"
peak escarp
he wasn't planning on killing him (or even kidnapping him) as revenge for Gerard
worthy rose
Impulse action based on Antonio being right because it was established prior that the italian government weren't gonna hold Antonio accountable and he was just going to get away
Hi guy's
peak escarp
characterized by uprightness or morality: a righteous observance of the law.
morally right or justifiable: righteous indignation.
acting in an upright, moral way; virtuous: a righteous and godly person. ```Reyes doesn't strike me as upright/moral
worthy rose
It seems like he would end up shooting people within his first week undercover.
If he's the righteous fury guy
peak escarp
it's his job to not be upright and moral
worthy rose
(also I hate your usage of semicolons)
peak escarp
(I copied it from Dictionary.com)
worthy rose
(talking about Kaeore's sentence-paragraphs earlier)
It's his job to get the best end result when overwatch couldn't. The right moral way doesn't always work and so he does what he concludes needs to be done; Gabriel during the blackwatch days did what needed to be done because he knew justice wasn't going to be executed by the book; It may not be Lawful but it was "Good" and the morality definition you used included the law which he very much acts out of as do most characters in the Overwatch
mb, i'll improve it later when i'm not juggling things
Chaotic good
peak escarp
Jack does things for the greater good
worthy rose
That's how Reyes struck me
All true. But, again, he wouldn't be able to stay undercover for very long if he had this righteous fury thing going on.
Jack is also bound by the law and a public spotlight
peak escarp
Gabe does things because nobody else will
worthy rose
Why did Gabe do Overwatch
If he wasn't good at all
Money? Power? Fame?
Shotguns?
Yea but he does tactics, he didn't one man army it; he tried getting dirty by doing spy observations which we see during the McCree bad italian accent thing
peak escarp
he was one of the ones recruited for the original strike team
worthy rose
he doesn't go full blazing until it's a last resort seemingly
peak escarp
we don't know why he accepted, but it was to stop a war so I guess there are some good motivations
worthy rose
That is a obvious plausible explanation and you know it.
If I knew about Reyes being filled with this "righteous fury", I would never expect him to stay undercover for years in order to take over this organization.
cause it's literally what he does, what do you want
But the fact that he does this is itself evidence against him being an undercover agent.
Yea; Cause blackwatch was the espionage/black ops/private sector of Overwatch; and one fuck up considering what, 20 years? I don't think that warrants him being labeled as incompetent as an undercover agent
But there was only one instance that we know of that causes this "righteous fury" to be unleashed.
Why would he be chosen to go on these undercover missions if he has righteous anger management issues?
This was the only instance that we seem him have these righteous fury issues because it happened literally after his friend was put in critical condition, after what i imagine hundreds of overwatch and blackwatch agents were murdered by a bomb planted by a talon agent, so given the circumstance of what happened previously, since he likely hasn't experienced a loss like this before, is when the full righteous fury aspect came out
Cause remember 20 years of overwatch and probably blackwatch and I don't think we've ever had an incident this massive or loss happen to overwatch especially under his nose
So you're saying that he has never lost a friend before, not through the whole omnic crisis up until the bombing?
You can still experience trauma even with previous experiences
Not one where the loss and magnitude was this huge, where he could point the finger at someone like Antonio and be like "This is on you; this is your fault and I'll bring you to justice under the law" but the law didn't work and wouldn't work as explained by Gerard and Antonio himself so he, in righteous fury and impulse, killed Antonio
And it cooled off nicely so that he could infiltrate Talon a year later?
The omnic Crisis wasn't an individual who he could blame and point a finger to
And I doubt Reyes had a competent therapist
Retribution happened years prior
And not to mention by his previous actions and deeds, we get a good look at his character
I'd say it was just impulse, after Antonio literally taunts him about how untouchable he is.
Where do those shotguns come from
A veteran of the omnic crisis, the leader of the strike team, his relief of not being the leader of Overwatch, his taking in and giving McCree a second chance at life to do something worth while, etc...
Also impulse seems like a weak argument
You don't casually murder an unarmed person
These strike me as a pretty good man morally
Oops 
Deeper than mere impulse
Should have good impulse control. However, we already know of Moira messing around with his genes and giving him his abilities.
peak escarp
he went in with the plan to kidnap Antonio
worthy rose
Unless you're telling me he's a psychopath
peak escarp
you can see Reyes make up his mind to shoot him during the conversation
worthy rose
There are side effects to current medication, why not this experimental treatment?
peak escarp
maybe not a sudden impulse, but it still wasn't the plan when they walked in the door
and Moira seemed . . . amused
worthy rose
And I would remind you that he has overseen illegal kidnapping and torture for the last while. He isn't going to hesitate over killing someone more than the consequences.
teal meadow
Is this legit?
peak escarp
like she knew impulsiveness could be a side effect
worthy rose
Because it weakens him as a character; to have this great man be reduced to an angry wraith thing instead of one who makes his own choices
devout sable
@teal meadow looks like a mockup
the fact that there's essentially no new assets (a Reyes skin and a Zen spray, and nothing else) is a dead giveaway
peak escarp
also Reaper on the main screen isn't moving
characters have idle animations on the main screen
worthy rose
Yea but look at how blackwatch's endgame and objective was; to do good. I'm taking a good chance that torture of bad organizations was in his purview; Something like the emp on kings row, this is me using a made up example) if an anti-omnic extremist made that emp to kill innocent omnics on kings row, and reaper tortured him to stop it, I'd say he's doing a bad thing for the right reason and correct me if i'm wrong, but is there such a thing as "legal kidnapping?"
devout sable
good catch
peak escarp
and I could be wrong, but doesn't the cursor in Overwatch look different than the default windows cursor?
devout sable
another good catch
lean prawn
yes
it's larger and it doesn't have that tail thing
if it does i think it's an orange dot
devout sable
@worthy rose I'm not sure I follow
what are you even... saying? torture? emp? anti-omnic extremist? it doesn't sound like anything coherent
peak escarp
ALSO when you hover over options they are animated
not only is that a fake, it's a bad fake
worthy rose
Doomed is arguing that blackwatch and Reaper by extension are not good people because they torture and illegally kidnap people; I'm looking at their end goal which is to stop bad people from doing bad things like corrupt businessmen who have connections to the government that make them easily untouchable;
I, using a hypothetical scenario in an attempt to prove torture isn't bad in every instance, am trying to show that Blackwatch's end goal is to do good even if the means of it are less than clean and moral.
King's row has a payload which is an EMP which I imagine would be used to destroy or hurt the omnic population there. In this hypothetical I put that Gabriel in his blackwatch days would have tortured the creator or a member of the group that made the EMP in order to prevent it and to save it's omnic civilians
@devout sable
is this better for you cause i'm rushing typing while doing homework
I'm saying that, while Blackwatch is good, it tends to attract bad people because of the methods used.
I don't think there's a psychopath that is in Blackwatch who's in it because of their methods
that I've seen anyway
Most of the strictly good people get driven away.
I don't follow; What do you mean?
Most good people have objections to torture, kidnapping etc.
So Blackwatch is left recruiting people like Reyes just after the crisis and people who are just in it for the money.
worthy rose
People who use ends justify the means, and people who only care about the salary.
I don't think people have objections to torture or kidnapping if the reason for it is explained to be justifiable; Torturing and kidnapping a terrorist to learn the location of headquarters and their leader, I'd argue many "good" people would be okay with that
Source?
Literally the entire USA during the war on Terror
I wouldn't say that
America literally tortured terrorists and put them in deplorable conditions in an attempt to stop terrorism; It's not moral but it was what needed to be done
Especially because 60 years is a long time, and a lot of things have obviously changed.
And how many people right now would be willing to personally torture someone else?
peak escarp
if someone was put in front of you right now and you were told that they had your family locked up somewhere and the only way to get the info out of them was to torture them, could you do it?
worthy rose
Maybe.
peak escarp
I don't think I could
worthy rose
not personally torture, but how many people are willing to go to war to stop bad people
I could
how many ppl are you going to kill so that you're family and home is safe
That was literally Ana's biggest thing
peak escarp
I would also not go to war, because I don't think that if the moment came, I'd be able to kill someone
worthy rose
What if you aren't certain, but they probably have that information?
Yea and a lot of ppl are like you Doc
and a lot of people aren't
What if you don't quite know what that information is?
Some do what others cannot
devout sable
well, yeah
Blackwatch's mission statement was "keeping the world safe, by any means necessary"
worthy rose
I'm saying that not a lot of good people have both the skills to be in blackwatch and the willingness to use them.
devout sable
but it was definitely home to some ruthless individuals, who would feel comfortable moving over to Talon once Overwatch fell apart
worthy rose
Most information is not certain but just letting a terrorist go when they may or may not have crucial information is just as bad as doing nothing at all; This way you are at least attempting to do something, anything even if the means are utterly deplorable; And not a lot of "good" people do have the skills but there's a reason why waterboarding is a thing, why torture does exist because it is something to do for a means of doing good;
Not a lot of good people have the skills for torture and assassination but those skills can at the very least be taught by the people who are willing to do anything to reach their goal. Be it protecting the world, or whatever and I don't think a willingness to do whatever it takes to save the world even if the means are less than clean, make you not a good person
peak escarp
this discussion has taken a weird turn
worthy rose
In our little sample of Blackwatch, for example, we have some dudes that went over to Talon for some reason, Moira, who is just there for research funds, Genji, who is there because of a deal for a cybernetic body, McCree, who is there because otherwise, he would be in jail, and Reyes, who is actually trying to do the right thing.
That doesn't bode well for the rest of Blackwatch.
lean prawn
wasn't McCree a good person tho
worthy rose
McCree of which we see is a genuinely good person; he was picked up and given an option to do good, does. Outlaws aren't bad people. He made a mistake when he was like 17, sure penalize him for life.
Moira is an outlier and not a morally good person by any means but doesn't actively try to cause chaos or spread disorder
Genji whom we see seemingly answers Winston's call for Overwatch and is a good person since he is in the main Overwatch Trailer doing his ninja thing as well as being assigned to assumingly normal Overwatch once he gets his normal silver green body instead of blackwatch,
Reyes as you said did good
And the pilot who has a good relationship with them
And the one blackwatch agent who tried to kill McCree
lean prawn
he looked pretty miffed when reyes offed antonio
worthy rose
there's a marvel comic reference that shows this exact same argument
Genji is a good person by the time recall comes around, when he's had help from Zenyatta adjusting to his new body. He seemed pretty not-good back when he was recently raised to be one of the next crime lords.
You can't just call people outliers when they don't fit your theory.
of which he said "I want nothing to do with this criminal enterprise"
and just wanted to live his own life
even when threatened by his brother who nearly killed him
How does a friendly pilot = good person?
A friendly pilot doesn't equal blood thirsty murderer, your attempt to villify the entirety of blackwatch as an evil part of Overwatch isn't working here. McCree's a good person who made a couple mistakes when he was young; Genji was a dude who just wanted to live his own life, Reaper genuinely just wanted to help people and wasn't going to be stopped by anything. The pilot, the black watch minor agent who appeared in the comic and is now working for Talon, don't make a high pool of people to get a gauge but Overwatch? An organization tasked to keep the world safe of whom Gabriel was seemingly in charge of recruiting and giving second chances to do good and to help keep the world safe? Naw they're all evil scumbags right?
Genji- good
McCree- good
Gabriel Reyes- good
Moira- Questionable/Neutral party
Pilot- Neutral (but the fact that Reyes, hired her, who is at the time affiliated with good, I'm marking her as good but putting her as neutral for your sake since we don't see much more of her)
Blackwatch turned Talon agents- Bad
Could Moira team up with a mechanic and create an omnic hybrid?
limpid agate
A what
fossil isle
maybe chaotic good
and when Winston put out the call, I recall Genji and McCree being one of the few popups
Does Moira really care about Talon's vision and goals or just her funding?
Pilot --> maybe she's just looking for a job?
worthy rose
They answered the call
Moira seemingly only cares about funding and not being held back
which blackwatch and talon allowed her
Genji is neutral for sure during his blackwatch time. McCree we don't know too much about, but neutral or good would both work, and I'm not saying the pilot was evil, but just being friendly is not an instant good.
Seems like an entire strike team flipped to Talon, which really makes you think how much of Blackwatch was only there for the money.
fossil isle
maybe they were loyal to Gabriel really and not to Overwatch
after all he may have done most of the recruiting
besides how many agents do we know that existed in Blackwatch outside of admin and finance staff
worthy rose
Gabriel inspiring loyalty wouldn't surprise me; everyone one of the main recruits we see, seem to be "strays" or outcasts in a way that he mentored and helped teach right and all that and I can't keep talking about this, got an exam to worry about
dapper shuttle
Is that a new Zarya voiceline? Has anyone heard it before? It's NOT* on her gamepedia
peak escarp
I haven't heard it before
dapper shuttle
Sounds like half of an interaction
sorry it's NOT on her gamepedia
Yeah it's in the folder for interactions
This one seems new too
peak escarp
that one seems familiar
dapper shuttle
yeah it seems familiar to me too but it's not on her gamepedia page either https://overwatch.gamepedia.com/Zarya/Quotes so either it's not up to date or it's new
worthy rose
that last one sounds like something she said to junkrat if i'm not mistaken
dapper shuttle
https://overwatch.gamepedia.com/Junkrat/Quotes nothing there either but it's possible it's a rare interaction
wait this has to be new
peak escarp
yeah that's new
full quarry
dapper shuttle
so let me know when I have to stop sending stuff. I feel like this one is new too
vocal pine
^I heard that one the other day after a Zarya on my team killed Torbjorn.
worthy rose
Torb feels a lot of guilt for that
dapper shuttle
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Robert_Oppenheimer quote from the "father of the atomic bomb"
Poor torb :(
dawn halo
Is there any more Gwisin types. Like those who could possibly traverse land, or even the Kaiju's size is because it has the capacity to deploy a smaller version of the ECS omnium.
peak escarp
unknown
dawn halo
Actually, are omniums capable of 3d printing materials or do they need outside assistance to get materials?
peak escarp
we've just seen the squid-like ones and the giant one
worthy rose
Genuinely no idea, I had the same thought but it's likely that they made bots to scour for resources while the bastion units went off to war
dense estuary
Even printing would need harvest and I suspect they needed a fairly normal logistics line as OW does not show any evidence of direct matter conversion like the Faro Robots in the background lore of Horizon Zero Dawn.
That said they could have had enormous caches of feed stock before the crisis rather than running on Just In Time.
worthy rose
Can we just appreciate how goddamn smart McCree is though?
The whole reunion short is him baiting a ruthless gang of criminals so he can escape with echo completely under the radar
To authorities of course
dawn halo
Probably all Blackwatch agents are smart.
Moria is a researcher, and you have to be Einstein smart to be able to manipulate a person to the same extent as Gabriel.
And Gabriel himself, he's a high functioning psychopath and led Blackwatch, you need to have smarts to lead a black ops group.
gray wigeon
what about genji
worthy rose
I don't think McCree planned that out; There's a current theory that is basically all but confirmed that Sombra is sending Soldier around like a chess piece; Like how Soldier found Ana
Keep also in mind that Soldier was in Dorado Mexico and so was McCree (albeit very likely to have been after junkrat and roadhog but could have gotten the information around then since we see Sombra and McCree in the same bar) She probably gave him the info of what the deadlock gang were up to since her entire thing is know things. @worthy rose
Cause how would McCree know where Echo would be to begin with and I think McCree is very capable but not that capable
Well, mccree did have echos chip on him, and the whole train hopper comic I think ties in well
McCree said to Ashe that she couldn’t shy away from a good tip, so i think he tipped the gang off
@worthy rose
yea but just cause he has a chip, doesn't mean he knew the exact area of transport for echo
or was able to time everything properly
gray wigeon
we were talking about smarts in blackwatch but only addressed 3 of the 4 members. How smart is genji and where does he show it?
worthy rose
Sombra is debatably the smartest person we have seen so far and that theory sounds possible but I don’t believe it just yet
@worthy rose about the whole timing thing, the start of the reunion short focused heavily on the clock in the diner. And he knew when it was 12:00.
Sombra is known to have a finger in every pie; She's manipulating Volskya, She knows reaper's identity, she knows soldier is alive and is passing him intel on his vengeance quest and also knew Ana was alive through hacking files; I'd say it's more than likely she hacked military transport and moved Echo while also telling McCree about it
That's not what I mean
McCree, as a freelance mercenary would have no way of knowing about military transport
or when it would be transported unless someone told him
then McCree might have baited Ashe into it or Sombra snuck intel to Ashe to get her to do it while having Faith in McCree's ability to at the very least awaken echo
in either instance, it's much too perfectly timed; I'm by no means saying McCree is dumb;
He's evaded capture all throughout the united states and in Japan and in Mexico while also surviving and taking jobs but he doesn't have the technical knowhow to be able to set up something as intricate as "Yea I've been following Echo's transport for about 7-8 years waiting for Ashe to build up the Deadlock gang to time it exactly at noon"
peak escarp
I think it's just a case of Sombra giving him the tip, then him tipping off Ashe and waiting around to let them do the dirty work
he knew/was told what time the train would be passing through Deadlock Gorge
so he got there ahead of time and cleared out the diner
supple bear
Does anyone think Baptiste and Sombra have/had a relationship?
Or has this already been shut down?
gray wigeon
what type of relationship are you talking about?
supple bear
Like bf/gf relationship
gray wigeon
nothing has been said
supple bear
or just anything higher than a "friendly" relationship
gray wigeon
i don't think at least
worthy rose
In my opinion sombra is the smartest person in the cast aside from maybe torbjorn, anyone agree/disagree?
worthy rose
Sombra is powerful because she has nothing to lose, she has no family, she has every corporations data or has the ability to take it, and is very calculating, however torbjorn creates so much technology and weaponry and we don’t know half of it, I think he’s secretly incredibly smart as he even predicted that Omnics would turn on humanity
gray wigeon
true
worthy rose
I roughly quote ‘his many machines were tucked away from the rest of the world’ so he’s made some stuff that either the government or darker corporations want it, it must be good enough to keep around
devout sable
so far we 'know' (strongly implied but not explicitly stated) that Sombra has been working as an informant for Morrison and McCree
upper arch
Does blizzard plan to release a cinematic about Zarya at some point? Not much has been done about his story since launch.
somber birch
I think Mercy, Sombra, Moira, Mei, Winston and Symmetra are the big brains of the cast
upper arch
@somber birch reported the name.
somber birch
bye !!
peak escarp
Zarya has appeared at the end of Infitration and in a comic of her own, so she has more lore than quite a few other heroes
upper arch
Why does everyone call zarya a chick? Because of his pink hair?
peak escarp
because she's female
Aleksandra Zaryanova is one of the world's strongest women, a celebrated athlete who sacrificed personal glory to protect her family, friends, and country in a time of war.
peak escarp
are you serious?
upper arch
Yes. Thanks for the info.
Ah this must be part of Blizzards plan to be like Disney, who is pushing the social justice agenda.
The same thing is happening with WoW.
peak escarp
social justice agenda?
there's nothing "social justice" about Zarya
she's just a woman with big muscles and pink hair
upper arch
"One of the world's strongest women" That was placed as the first sentence for a reason. They wouldn't dare do that for one of the male characters because they'd be afraid of the backlash that would ensue.
peak escarp
if the male world champion weight lifter was made a hero in Overwatch, I'm 100% certain it would be the first line in his bio
it's a feature of her character
desert yacht
is society actually this dumb
peak escarp
she is literally an olympic weight lifter with a record lift of 512 kg
upper arch
@desert yacht no
peak escarp
why would there be backlash over the world's strongest man?
upper arch
Because it would be seen as the patriarchy oppressing society. Thus a backlash.
To avoid this Blizzard used a woman instead. It all makes sense now.
peak escarp
what
4/5 of the founders of Overwatch
nobody screams "oppressive patriarchy" over that
peak escarp
!!shitposting
twilit nacelleBOT
Shitposting will result in a loss of access.
upper arch
We were discussing lore.
upper arch
Nah.
desert yacht
i go to video games to escape dumb 'social justice' shit, don't bring it to my safe haven
anyways, what do we think an archives mission could be besides a talon mission
desert yacht
an ana/soldier/rein/reaper thing could be cool but half of them have been used
so i have my doubts
peak escarp
there's nothing saying they won't reuse heroes
limpid agate
There's nothing saying they will.
neon wraith
huh, well TIL tracer got her catchphrase from torb
clever silo
Cheers love the Calvary’s here?
worthy rose
Nothing wrong with some good ol' powerful men and women suited for your own personal power fantasy
One thing I love about Overwatch and the tales it tells is that there's a lot of variety
We got Rein for the dudes, and Zarya for the lasses. And now we got Orisa for those with a more... rustic outlook on life.
Although Overwatch has quite a bit of social justice going on, with the whole "omnic and human divide" conflict.
Then again, it's not really dumb, I guess...
valid shell
I wouldn't call the Omnic Crisis an allegory for social justice.
worthy rose
...
Omnic and human divide
Not the omnic crisis
that wasn't an allegory for anything
valid shell
Those are one in the same, homie.
worthy rose
that's was hell on earth we call "war"
valid shell
The divide is because of the Omnic Crisis.
worthy rose
The divide is what I'm talking about, the effect rather than the cause
And Talon is trying to stir conflict up
I mean we had a religious figure assassinated in public, with slight emphasis placed on an omnic/human couple freaking out over it.
There's a few hints of social justice there.
You can't really escape it in a story with political overtones. It's a part of human conflict.
War and politics go hand in hand
¯_(ツ)_/¯
Sometimes politics spark the flames of war, and sometimes it's merely the fallout.
For Overwatch, it's probably the latter (first crisis) and the former (pre-second crisis).
valid shell
Except the implication that real-world oppressed groups might suddenly go berserk and attack everyone else outside of their own volition because of something in their "code" isn't a great train of thought.
valid shell
Gross.
worthy rose
World history gets depressing.
But alas, there is clearly political overtones to the story regarding omnics and humans. We just don't have any Overwatch heroes with a metal flag screaming about safe spaces, which most of us think of when we hear social justice.
and I think Overwatch is more concerned with stopping Talon than Omnic rights, all things considered. The politics of the setting is likely secondary for obvious reasons.
and dem evil omniums out there kinda give friendly omnics a bad name.
supple bear
this might be an odd question, but how can you tell a male omnic from a female omnic?
worthy rose
Do they even have genders? Like, I know some of them look pretty (Paris omnic in attacker's spawn), and feature designed tertiary characteristics, but gender is a psychological thing and something they would probably pick up from humans.
peak escarp
they present themselves as particular genders
worthy rose
... better answer
valid shell
Bastion either doesn't care or has no concept of gender. Zenyatta likely decided his gender. Orisa had her gender assigned by Efi. Lynx 17 opted to stay gender neutral.
So we've got a pretty good census.
worthy rose
Not gonna lie though, that French omnic (what was her name? Luna?) is pretty.
I'd pay mad money for her to be a Zen skin.
upper arch
Soldier 76 sucks as a character now. Why did they have to change his lore?
slow goblet
Change his lore?
upper arch
Yes.
valid shell
Then he'll get banned.
worthy rose
I know where this is going
valid shell
And everyone wins.
Give him the benefit of the doubt, and if he mistreats that trust, call the mods.
worthy rose
Fair enough
valid shell
So, go ahead - tell me how they changed Jack Morrison's lore.
upper arch
.....no? He's just a bland character now. No interesting qualities. Just a dude with a gun and "tough guy thoughts"
worthy rose
I was unaware anything was changed.
valid shell
He's always been guy with gun, homie.
peak escarp
he was always just a dude with a gun and tough guy thoughts
worthy rose
Hero was amazing.
valid shell
He's literally the Call of Duty/Image Comics stand-in character.
upper arch
That's the problem. He needs more depth. Not sure why you all think I'm just gonna shit post.
worthy rose
You said his lore was changed.
upper arch
....yeah, but not in a good way.
valid shell
How was it changed?
worthy rose
So what changed?
valid shell
You say he needs more depth. Has he gotten less depth somehow?
upper arch
?
valid shell
How can I be more explicit.
worthy rose
I wish we had stareboard here
Change implies what was previously established is no longer so from events outside the story.
limpid agate
You are saying he is bland now. How was he not equally bland before?
What was it that made him more bland now than he was before
worthy rose
If anything, his story has gotten deeper
All of them have, with no major retcons since beta and consistent lore updates.
slow goblet
There is a difference between "needs more depth" and "changed to be bad"
upper arch
Ok, he was changed to be bad.
worthy rose
SO what was the change?
upper arch
Why do I need to say it?
valid shell
My dude, this is an active channel.
You can't just say shit without extrapolating on it.
This isn't your twitter.
upper arch
No big words please.
worthy rose
This isn't Lost where you have to wait a season in order to realize you still don't know what's going on
slow goblet
You need to cite evidence to make a claim.
You claim Soldier's lore was changed.
Where is your evidence of the change?
valid shell
Anyways, it seems initial predictions of shitposting were correct.
So let's move on.
valid shell
???
slow goblet
Oh boy as I suspected.
valid shell
If you think one (1) spray ruins his character, then you're a confused human.
upper arch
It does.
worthy rose
I wonder if we'll get any more heroes that started as normal guys instead of war veterans or mercenaries, like Lucio
valid shell
@upper arch What spray?
desert yacht
i want more lucio lore before we add more people like him
worthy rose
It's like one of those clickbait websites with three words on each page and a link to the next
desert yacht
can you imagine how amazing a lucio short would be
worthy rose
Let's move on
desert yacht
especially if it incorporated wallriding
worthy rose
It would be great
desert yacht
can we just make eskay the canon lucio in terms of movememnt
slow goblet
Lucio vs Symmetra as a short I would kill for
upper arch
It would just be him yelling "LUCIO-OOOOOHS" the whole time while wubwubing with that stupid frog skin that children use.
valid shell
No shitposting please.
worthy rose
please
valid shell
A Lucio and Zenyatta short would offer a lot of potential, since they're both starved for lore, and both have travelled the world, so it poses a lot of opportunities to see countries otherwise unexplored.
upper arch
I'm contributing to the topic. Just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean it's shitposting
peak escarp
I think I know which spray it is
worthy rose
I can't think of a plot to that though
peak escarp
upper arch
That spray is fine
desert yacht
at first i didnt think much of a lucio zen collab short but now that you phrase it like that
valid shell
You're making a softrbained meme about gameplay carrying into lore.
Which isn't allowed in this channel.
worthy rose
I don't want a guy like Lucio
upper arch
Oh. Very well I digress.
worthy rose
I want someone in his generation to rise up from normal person to hero
like Lucio did, but for a different cause and reason
Baptiste?
upper arch
Who is Baptist?
worthy rose
XD the new hero
Baptiste was a mercenary, he has the "anti-villain turned hero" thing going on
I'm talking Zero to Hero here
desert yacht
it just so happens you can go look up his origin story
happens to be in the second section of the second pin
worthy rose
Guys, it's kind of obvious he's shitposting as much as he can within the rules. Stop engaging.
He was pretty much an average soldier earlier
valid shell
Baptiste is a Haitian orphan who was recruited by Talon, gained prestige as an officer and combat medic, and eventually left Talon.
upper arch
Just looked him up. It's just Doomfist.
valid shell
You're not funny.
upper arch
Why make a different characyer?
valid shell
@limpid agate
desert yacht
just gonna block him and move on
worthy rose
Can we get a ban yet?
desert yacht
i'd advise you all do the same
valid shell
Nah, better to actually have repercussions for childish behavior.
Otherwise they never learn.
desert yacht
that'll happen when jewv gets back
nothing we can do now but tolerate his bullshit
or block
upper arch
What did I do wrong?
desert yacht
anyways back on topic, some more lucio lore would be neat
worthy rose
Yes, but how?
desert yacht
mmm
limpid agate
Moving swiftly onwards
worthy rose
I can't think of a reason for him to get involved in any of the subplots besides something with sym
valid shell
Lucio's in a weird place. Most of his actual action-packed activity is behind him.
He's a celebrity now, and I doubt he'll be returning to Rio anytime soon to do any fighting.
worthy rose
I want to see that shit in a cinematic
desert yacht
what if he had an interaction with sanjay
worthy rose
I want to see him stealing his tech
desert yacht
engaging him against a talon higher up
worthy rose
no more Shooting Star stuff that doesn't matter
even though Shooting Star was amazing
or whatever it was called
Amazing, but not really impactful
Stealing the tech would be great
desert yacht
doesn't sound like the overwatch team to just introduce a character, have them do something that would qualify them as a hero with no connection to overwatch, then retire them from being a hero
im hoping a lucio animated short would bounce him back from being a celebrity to being a hero
sanjay would be a good way to connect him to the main plot while keeping it connected with his own lore
stealing the tech would just be visualizing some lore we already know
i would love to see it but it wouldnt be too lore heavy
desert yacht
what would it do? give us a little more on vishkar?
worthy rose
sorry, no more joking
I want to see Lucio and Symmetra fight.
Sonic Boom
no that's lame
but yeah
desert yacht
that's not in their nature
sym only fights for gameplay purposes
lucio only would resort to fighting if it was to protect rio or some other place
that's important
i'd still rather see a lucio getting into a talon/vishkar plot with sanjay
and have sanjay added as a hero because of it
gets lucio more connected, gets a new talon hero, gets a new vishkar hero, gets us more sanjay lore
maybe sym can be thrown in there somewhere
slow goblet
Satya does a little fighting in her comic. A small amount. That's extremely defensive.
Symmetra is one of my favourite heroes so I'm naturally biased to wanting to see a Symmetra short, but the Sanjay idea's pretty cool...
worthy rose
Oooh I like the way you think.
valid shell
Sanjay's in a position to either be ascended to an active lore character or even potential hero, or be killed off in a cinematic or comic and still be relevant enough to be recognized and his death appreciated.
So I'd be down with either.
peak escarp
are you forgetting?
"You know I don't kill if I don't have to."
this implies that she has killed in the past
Symmetra is probably the oddest inclusion on the list of heroes who have canonically killed
(Bastion would be the oddest inclusion on the list of heroes who haven't canonically killed)
worthy rose
Bastion has killed several trees.
desert yacht
that's not what i'm saying, i'm trying to say she prefers not to have to fight
but if it comes down to it she will
limpid agate
she prefers not to have to kill
worthy rose
Lucio vs Symmetra fight plz
peak escarp
as awesome as that would be, I kinda want to see Lucio shine in his own cinematic
maybe show him breaking into Vishkar to steal his gear
worthy rose
Well there needs to be some antagonists and I'd rather not have it wasted on a one-shot bad guy
or that, that works too
peak escarp
or have him come up against Vishkar grunts and Sanjay
iron plume
@dapper shuttle “Not if you were the last human on Earth” is a junkrat interaction
desert yacht
yeah i suggested a lucio meeting sanjay
symmetra could make a small appearance too if they really wanted to go the extra mile
iron plume
he asks her something like “you hate bots too, wanna team up?”
it’s been in game for a while
iron plume
^
fringe blade
I am actually kind of curious, I was rewatching the Rein Short, and I was thinking about the fact that the world has all of this brand new technology, such as hard light, etc., but the soldiers are/were still using basic weaponry, such as RPGs and Rifles
Wouldn't there be some sort of jump in weapon tech as well as everything else?
worthy rose
Production and simplicity
Look at the Bastion units, using simple bullets. Still highly effective.
fringe blade
I was just thinking, Germany is quite wealthy
fringe blade
Yes, but how would training affect whether the soldier is using an Assault Rifle or some Plasma-thing weapon?
I don't think that training the soldiers to use plasma/whatever would be much harder than normal weapons
iron plume
the most important factor for a weapon in a war is reliability
iron plume
basically
worthy rose
and bullets are easy to make
iron plume
there’s no need for fancy plasma weapons if bullets do the job
also the omnic crisis-time technology might not be that much more developed
by the time of the game’s present we have pulse weaponry
fringe blade
I feel like its kind of saying: "Why use a really expensive drying machine when you can just hang up the laundry on the balcony?"
It gets the job done, just not as effectively, you know what I mean?
iron plume
hanging the laundry has downsides
worthy rose
like more people dying
:^)
also, I think a lot of technology probably developed during and post crisis
as sad it is to admit, wartime inspires progress
fringe blade
All together, it feels like the weaponry-side of things didn't progress that much compared to other things
iron plume
and if you’d need to dry out an entire continent worth of laundry you wouldn’t wait for them to build more dryers
worthy rose
bullets still kill things
iron plume
you’d go get some fucking string
fringe blade
and a balcony dries your laundry
peak escarp
this is a weird metaphor
worthy rose
a lot of tech is derived from military stuff
look at what we're doing now
who invented the internet
?
HMMMMMM
fringe blade
Weren't a lot of things that were created for comfort first coming for war/military?
fringe blade
They were created for war first tho
worthy rose
^
fringe blade
then adapted for comfort
worthy rose
Yeah dude
Comfort tech is often derived from war-developed technology
Like the internet.
iron plume
plasma weapons don’t serve a crucial need when firearms do the job well
worthy rose
are you a genji main
iron plume
what are you on about with the internet
worthy rose
because that was a solid deflect
iron plume
arpanet was made by DoD but not in wartime
fringe blade
I just mean like, the world would've existed without the internet. But with it, it became much more efficent and easier. Along with the world, war became more convinient with the internet as well
worthy rose
even the custom of brushing your teeth was popularized by soldiers
iron plume
you try researching better tech
worthy rose
War is a part of human culture
iron plume
but you don’t fuck with what works on the frontlines
worthy rose
It's like a cycle
worthy rose
You develop tech for war, it becomes consumer friendly. New consumer tech becomes invented, gets adapted into war stuff.
iron plume
obviously a lot of things get made in and for war
worthy rose
I recall that lipstick factories made bullets during WWII
iron plume
but you don’t put them in hands of soldiers until it’s developed enough that it’s more reliable than existing weapons and cheap to make a shitton of
fringe blade
A ton of stuff was created during the war. For example, Turing's machine. It was the basis of the current computer
iron plume
the difference between that and a plasma gun
is that you don’t need to make 4 million turing machines
to equip entire armies with
fringe blade
I just feel like the world doesn't work that way really. Especially during wars, countries try to out-do their opponents, and the fact that weaponry is one of the most underdeveloped things in the OW universe isn't exactly true to life
worthy rose
you produce too much new weaponry, good luck distributing it without the enemy getting that intel and intercepting your weapon caravans.
iron plume
but it does
WW2 caused a lot of tech developments but the US soldiers were still using Tommy Guns
worthy rose
and if you rely too much on a single weapon, the enemy develops countermeasures
iron plume
the jump in common weapon tech came after
fringe blade
I don't think you understand my point
iron plume
I don’t think you understand my point
worthy rose
Any g'night boys. I'm heading off to slumber land.
I don't understand anyone's points right now.
fringe blade
Every country is always trying to be on top of the other countries. They are always developing tech which would boost their country, either economically or military-wise. I just find it insanely hard to believe that decades into the future, the world stopped focusing their attention on means of weaponry and development, and started to put their money into other areas other than war and weapons.
worthy rose
I suspect that pulse rounds just weren't cost-effective enough compared to bullets.
iron plume
it may be a long time before every common soldier sees it
because there are different priorities
worthy rose
Sure, they worked better, but they couldn't afford to give everyone one.
fringe blade
Somehow, humans were able to move on to bullets from whatever came before them. I am not saying that it has to be a huge step forward, but still, there should be progress.
iron plume
plus, who’s to say Omnics don’t have a way to shut down electric-based weapons
bullets came around over, like
400 years
chill
and, more importantly, they came around because they were easier to produce and more reliable to operate
fringe blade
I also find it kind of curious how the weaponry the use wasn't somehow adapted to the enemy they were going against.
Omnics are robots, right?
Instead of finding some sort of vulnerability or effective strategy, they just use blunt force and bullets
cedar yacht
Or maybe it just looked cooler from a cinematic perspective to have them shoot bullets
Sometimes I think you guys overthink things lop
Lol
cedar yacht
Yeah
worthy rose
To be fair, hammers worked
worthy rose
And explosives
But EMPs would take out communications and be pretty hard to direct (i think)
limpid agate
bullets
The earliest we have seen pulse munitions exist is... 7 years ago with Tracer
Might not have existed 30 years ago
supple bear
Do they use the same tech?
worthy rose
Probably
frosty shell
Also, bullets are easy to make
Manufacturing cost and ease is sometimes just as important as effectiveness
And the Crusaders are very high-tech so your argument doesn't really work
Many new technologies were used by the humans against the Omnics
worthy rose
Sometimes tech is made to increase conventional weapon effectiveness
Crusader shields for one
Easier to shoot if you're not in a trench
hard leaf
It would decrease the casualty rate, that's for sure.
limpid agate
Crusaders are very high-tech
Look back at the past and you'll be surprised what was around before other things. Especially in military
The submarine was invented before the airplane
hard leaf
Wartime lead to huge advancements on medical technology, which is really kinda weird if you think about it.
limpid agate
Prosthetics became a thing around then iirc.
Dont know.
Can't remember if Gotz von Berchlagen was real
Or how to spell Berchlagen
And penicilin was around WW2 era
Morphine I wanna say came around the opium wars, but that's probably just because its made from opium
hard leaf
That's not what I meant, I just found it peculiar how periods that lead to so much death and physical damage ended up improving health care for the following generations.
worthy rose
only to bring it down like 40-50 years down the line again
Lookin at you merica
Says the american
Well, medical advances happen when you have more testing material
peak escarp
I guess Doomfist has it right - only through conflict do we evolve
worthy rose
But why do we need to evolve?
peak escarp
would you rather have things stay the same forever?
peak escarp
just thinking of the progress in technology over just the last 100 years
worthy rose
But was it worth all the conflict?
peak escarp
it only took about 70 years to go from manned flight to basic space travel
worthy rose
The human lives wasted
peak escarp
computers went from filling entire rooms to fitting in your pocket in about 50 years
hard leaf
And in about five more we'll be ruled by them.
peak escarp
you mean we aren't already?
the network went down for a whole minute at work the other day and everything ground to a halt
hard leaf
I was trying to be optimistic, but when you put it like that...
peak escarp
modern society would not function without computers and networks
it's not necessarily a bad thing
hard leaf
We're screwed the second we run out of power though.
peak escarp
that's the price to pay for instant communication with anyone in the world anwhere in the world
worthy rose
GLOBALIZATION
for human lives to be wasted, there had to be purpose and reason to their existence in the first place
which there is none
fossil isle
i think the reasoning behind Doomfist's philosophy is objectively sound. Throughout human history we see innovations and progress through conflict. It's just the nature of things in which for us to know good, we must know how bad it can get. The only problem is that people's lives are sacrificed. Sometimes conflicts do rise from greed, hunger for power, lust, and many other extreme forms of individualistic desire. But for an organization to exist for the sole reason of spurring conflict? I mean what really is Talon's goal? To sow discord on the world and force its "evolution"? And then what? When does it stop? Who's to say it's enough? Will true peace never be achieved because there is always someone behind the shadows making sure it never lasts? Will humanity always be in a constant process of "evolving" through wars and conflict and suffering?
then is Doomfist a noble character who seeks humanity's betterment? Or is he merely justifying his desire to fight or harm?
worthy rose
I think he just wants to personify natural selection
He was a former martial artist from a wealthy family
after he lost his arm and got a prosthetic and then unable to perform the sport he loved where it was a battle of wills, body and soul
he just kinda wants to force humanity to evolve with him, maybe to the end game of ending him or finishing him since I don't think anyone could take out doomfist
frosty shell
Forcing people to evolve isn't a good idea though
As long as there is a diverse and stable population there will likely be enough people to survive most big catastrophes
supple bear
Probs next week
peak escarp
I expect a Twitter teaser this week, probably Thursday
and then a reveal next week and the event starting the week after
peak escarp
seems like it
if it was going to start next week they would have given us something by now
peak escarp
there will be
supple bear
a comic as well, no?
peak escarp
Jeff said "we're working on something, act surprised when you see it"
should be a comic too, yes
it's the one time of year that we reliably get a comic
worthy rose
If it’s a animation that’ll be great
But if it’s just a comic that’ll be good too
Honestly if we get 3 comics this year I’ll be happy
peak escarp
he also said comics are coming back
so we'll probably get a few before the end of the year
we only had 1 last year
supple bear
i doubt we'll get a full animation, but if u meant a cutscene, then I can definitely see that
dawn halo
And what about a two map Archives mission, where there's one map used and then another after a cutscene transition.
The heroes used are the same, just under two maps, it'll have benefits from a story point of view.
peak escarp
I guess it could happen
anything is possible
but so far they've only happened on one map
dawn halo
And since Jeff said it vaguely, what the cool thing that's gonna happen in Archives this year is up to interpretation, it could be a shift from convention storytelling wise or something else.
I know Jeff isn't reliable lore wise, but when it comes to everything else relating to the game directly, he is.
bleak wren
(not to do with lore because I'm too dumb to understand anything implicit) I heard that they aren't gonna do anything for Archives this year please tell me that isn't true...
dawn halo
It is not.
peak escarp
Jeff has said they're doing something for Archives
dawn halo
There has been lore activity before April, such as Baset which Chu personally wrote the story.
So don't worry, @bleak wren
supple bear
If there was nothing new for archives people would riot and leave the game
peak escarp
people will riot and leave anyway
supple bear
True
peak escarp
because they're entitled pissbabys
dawn halo
My assumption: Praying it doesn't die or takes a sharp quality decline.
peak escarp
it's nowhere near dying
gray wigeon
yes it is
peak escarp
we're still getting the same amount of content we've been getting for the last 3 years
dawn halo
It's my assumption, and can we please not bring the is the game dying question in here.
gray wigeon
sure
peak escarp
the lore has been consistent, as sad as that is
although I hope it will return to 2017 levels
gray wigeon
question for everyone listening/reading this in your opinion who has the best lore?
shell path
I'm curious to see what flipped Reyes from Overwatch to siding with the team that orchestrated his best friend's death.
dawn halo
I think Genji, he was a playboy who turned into a badass ninja in a few years after his first confrontation with Hanzo.
shell path
And personally speaking, I'm most curious about Orisa.
gray wigeon
yes i agree it in my opinion is genji and hanzo
dawn halo
I can go deeper into my justification about me choosing Genji if needed.
peak escarp
I want to see how Orisa grows and learns about the world
dawn halo
I do too.
peak escarp
and how she reacts to seeing the darker side of the world, since she's such an optimistic character
she has a spawn line on Numbani that I love, where she mentions remembering being defeated by Doomfist
dawn halo
Genji too had a basically optimistic past until it came down hard once Sojiro died.
neat geode
HELLO
dawn halo
Then he gets a massive upgrade via his cybernetics and joined Blackwatch, basically a slower paced version zero to hero as he needed physical therapy and training to use his enhancements to the fullest.
What turns me to Genji is his character shift in the confrontation's aftermath.
It's my opinion although.
peak escarp
I'd like to see more of Genji during his Blackwatch days, how he coped with his new body, and his friendship/relationship with the other Blackwatch members
dawn halo
I do too.
peak escarp
I believe he was friends with McCree, but we haven't heard what his opinions are on the others
supple bear
so efi didn't wipe orisas memory huh?
peak escarp
on a similar note (and possibly a parallel) I also want to see more about Sombra and Baptiste's friendship
dawn halo
@supple bear Up in the air, possibly parts of it were.
peak escarp
really I just want to know about relationships between heroes
supple bear
yeah im also curious about the sombra baptiste relationship and how far it goes/went
peak escarp
platonic, familial, romantic . . . whatever is there I want to know about it
dawn halo
I was originally disillusioned with the semi realism in Overwatch when I first go it, until I got over it and in June of last year, due to the dissatisfaction I got from the lack of lore, I took the pen.
And with it, it allowed me to begin and hone lore-related ideas and/or theories.
I focus the lore in it's entirety because every part plays a role, and each part plays an effect on the other.
Story affects characters, character affects story, relationships affects characters, relationship affects story, story affects characters, all of those parts create the lore and each can lead it in different ways, different ways that have be be guided, who in this case that guide is the writing staff but chief among them is Michael Chu.
dawn halo
But Chu is lead writer, so he calls the shots in the grand scheme of things.
peak escarp
yeah
white cobalt
Yeah, the other who was with Chu is Alyssa Wong, she was answering some stuff from the Q&A from Baptiste.
dawn halo
Did we get some interesting things about Baptiste from the Q&A?
peak escarp
just that Sombra and Baptiste are good friends
and a bit about how Talon recruits people by claiming to be a mercenary company
Talon’s public face, especially the one they’d show to prospective recruits like Baptiste, would be as a well-paying mercenary group that took on security missions that were sanctioned by official organizations or corporations: a reasonable place for him and his comrades to best use their skills after their years in the Caribbean Coalition, without a hint of Talon’s true aims.
peak escarp
he's from Haiti
worthy rose
I wonder if Luna will get lore
peak escarp
she has a little with her interactions
she seems to be a member of the Paris omnic resistance
worthy rose
did baptiste and sombra get any interactions with one another?
worthy rose
that is so disappointing but kk
peak escarp
it usually takes a while for new heroes to get interactions added
voice actors are busy people
peak escarp
I don't think so
limpid agate
None of the past 3 heroes have many interactions
Hammond has a couple with Sombra, Ashe has some with McCree
And Wrecking Ball has map lines about the weather on various maps, and how ideal it is for hamsters.
worthy rose
Yea and that makes sense to me; Ashe wouldn't really have many interactions with anyone but McCree; The only other one that would make sense is like, Talon members on the grounds of recruitment like widow with hanzo or with sombra cause of the echo ordeal which I'm suspecting tipped her off
Hammond's only other interaction would be like Junkrat and roadhog and Winston
peak escarp
plenty of heroes have interactions with heroes they haven't met
or would have no reason to interact with
supple bear
Are there any characters who are presumed dead, that could possibly be brought back?
peak escarp
dead characters can't be brought back
supple bear
I meant characters that people think are dead, not confirmed
Also if blizz never told us any lore past the fight between the shimada brothers, would people assume genji to be dead?
limpid agate
Hanzo's lore came first
BUT
We saw the cyborg ninja
So people speculated that was his brother
worthy rose
@supple bear Soldier 76
peak escarp
the only characters thought to be dead but not actually confirmed to be dead is Cuerva and his team
supple bear
ok
hot take: sven will join talon, and someones gonna break him out
If this is true (which is highly unlikely), then I would say doomfist is the one to break him out
worthy rose
Meh
I see it but at the same time I don't
Doom isn't into war profiteering, he's in it for the not financial aspects
And I don't think Doom would buy Sven's not money reasons for doing so
supple bear
if we're being realistic, I don't think blizz will touch sven again
worthy rose
who knows
supple bear
Numbani to Nigeria in OW is like the same as Vatican City to Italy IRL right?
peak escarp
it's a city state
supple bear
Also that dorado CEO who stepped down is in custody now right?
not dorado
lumerico
peak escarp
no, he was exonerated
supple bear
so whats he doing rn?
supple bear
his husband?