#lore-discussion | Overwatch | Page 402

regal coyote Mar 7, 2019, 2:40 PM

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no way it is a sniper rifle, that would be wtf to kill her hubbie, sleeping,w ith a sniper 360 no scope

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also guns would be loud even with supressor, unlikely pistol.

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so yeah poison would be most reasonable.

hard edge Mar 7, 2019, 2:56 PM

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it would've been the most easy, because of marital trust

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she could just be like "Oh, I made you some tea!" and he'd drink it like it was going out of style

slow cloak Mar 7, 2019, 3:53 PM

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Can Reaper stop stalking his family?

limpid agate Mar 7, 2019, 4:02 PM

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!!shitposting

twilit nacelleBOT Mar 7, 2019, 4:02 PM

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Shitposting will result in a loss of access.

limpid agate Mar 7, 2019, 4:02 PM

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@hoary nebula @sturdy basin

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Warning for you

sturdy basin Mar 7, 2019, 4:02 PM

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For?

limpid agate Mar 7, 2019, 4:02 PM

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@slow cloak How do you know it's his family

sturdy basin Mar 7, 2019, 4:02 PM

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It’s a legit question

slow cloak Mar 7, 2019, 4:02 PM

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Rumors

limpid agate Mar 7, 2019, 4:02 PM

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For shitposting.

sturdy basin Mar 7, 2019, 4:02 PM

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?????

limpid agate Mar 7, 2019, 4:03 PM

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If you have questions dm Modmail

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!!loreOnly

twilit nacelleBOT Mar 7, 2019, 4:03 PM

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This channel is for serious discussion strictly related to the lore of Overwatch. Shitposting will result in a loss of access.

sturdy basin Mar 7, 2019, 4:03 PM

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It is apart of the lore

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All then people have to been born some how

limpid agate Mar 7, 2019, 4:03 PM

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So you know what you did.

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Then you should know it's a shitpost. Final warning

hoary nebula Mar 7, 2019, 4:04 PM

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wait why was I warned what was I warned not to do. Sorry I know this is not lore but I am confused

sturdy basin Mar 7, 2019, 4:04 PM

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But what’s your opinion on it?

limpid agate Mar 7, 2019, 4:04 PM

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@hoary nebula Shitposting mercy gifs

tepid mulch Mar 7, 2019, 4:04 PM

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wait reaper stalks his family!?
i thought he was just hunting down EX OW members

regal coyote Mar 7, 2019, 4:04 PM

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ESP013, is that bapt's name in talon?

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or just random skin thing

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wasteland skin

limpid agate Mar 7, 2019, 4:05 PM

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@tepid mulch Again, we dont know who it was in Reflections

tepid mulch Mar 7, 2019, 4:05 PM

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ah ok

regal coyote Mar 7, 2019, 4:07 PM

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we know they must be related and not random family

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we know it is not lindhelm, and not jack's

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but that is all

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@limpid agate do you think bapt's spec op skin is canon? it says carr. coal on it

limpid agate Mar 7, 2019, 4:10 PM

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No

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Not until we see it

regal coyote Mar 7, 2019, 4:12 PM

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see it in story? or untl we have lore text with it

limpid agate Mar 7, 2019, 4:12 PM

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Story

regal coyote Mar 7, 2019, 4:12 PM

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there is logo and writing carribian coalition on the gun

limpid agate Mar 7, 2019, 4:12 PM

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So

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Look at Sombra

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Los Muertos

regal coyote Mar 7, 2019, 4:15 PM

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you got a point

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we dont know how sombra looks in LM times

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though it can be paint

supple bear Mar 7, 2019, 4:43 PM

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Aren't there 2 legendary skin portraying Sombra in Los Muertos?

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I believe they're called Azucar and Los Muertos

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@tepid mulch The family Reaper is stalking in Reflections being his own son/daughter's family is just the most popular theory as of right now

cunning ledge Mar 7, 2019, 4:51 PM

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so

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baptiste canon abilities

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pretty sure it's literally just the gun

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not even the cool boots

timid eagle Mar 7, 2019, 4:51 PM

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Shame, as the boots are awesome.

worthy rose Mar 7, 2019, 4:55 PM

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The boots are probably fine, he needs more canon powers than a rifle/heal nade thing.

cunning ledge Mar 7, 2019, 4:56 PM

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what do you mean

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i don't get to decide what is canon

supple bear Mar 7, 2019, 4:58 PM

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What do you call the thing Ana shoots people with to heal them?

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Darts? I feel like that's too similar to sleep dart...

worthy rose Mar 7, 2019, 5:02 PM

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I was guessing what is and isn't canon. The immortality drone can't be canon, but it probably has some kind of mass healing effect. I don't see anything wrong with Baptiste having the healing wave thingy, so I'd guess he does have those in lore. Same thing for the boots, and the gun has already been seen.

supple bear Mar 7, 2019, 5:05 PM

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Nvm the official Overwatch says it is darts

fossil isle Mar 7, 2019, 5:17 PM

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I wonder how the biotic bullets are shot without burning up the meds inside. What kind of propulsion method do they use to launch the "bullet"

cunning ledge Mar 7, 2019, 5:18 PM

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they launch from capsules

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you can see the bits holding it in fall away

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when you fire

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they actually land on the ground in front of you

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its a neat detail

supple bear Mar 7, 2019, 5:21 PM

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interesting, did not know that

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Many of the supports heal in odd ways

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Like how does Brigitte's Inspire ability work?

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Slapping enemies with a mace=healing your teammates?

limpid agate Mar 7, 2019, 5:27 PM

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It doesnt

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Gameplay != Lore

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The name means what it means

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Inspire

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And for gameplay purposes, that translates to healing

supple bear Mar 7, 2019, 5:28 PM

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I see

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Blizzard should make lore and gameplay line up more

tawny patio Mar 7, 2019, 5:29 PM

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That’d be either really dull gameplay or really wild lore

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And would cut the roster in like half

lean prawn Mar 7, 2019, 5:31 PM

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i just want to see Zenyatta in the lore

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does he actually float?

worthy rose Mar 7, 2019, 5:35 PM

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Probably. They've already made flying cars, it wouldn't surprise me if the Shambali installed buttock-mounted miniature versions of those wheel things.

supple bear Mar 7, 2019, 5:36 PM

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I guessing that he can walk, but chooses not to

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Cuz why walk when you can float

valid shell Mar 7, 2019, 5:37 PM

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@lean prawn He does.

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https://comic.playoverwatch.com/issues/overwatch/10/en-us/pages/9/9-1.png

worthy rose Mar 7, 2019, 5:39 PM

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wait genji is a lefty?

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Must be one of those times where they don't think about it too much and use the wrong hand.

dense estuary Mar 7, 2019, 5:42 PM

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could be ambi

peak escarp Mar 7, 2019, 5:42 PM

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tbh the art in that comic is full of inconsistencies

dense estuary Mar 7, 2019, 5:43 PM

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And in this its also artistic choice to not have the arm blocking what hes doing

peak escarp Mar 7, 2019, 5:43 PM

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but him being a lefty would make sense, since his right arm is fake

dense estuary Mar 7, 2019, 5:44 PM

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Ahh his left arm is still meat?

peak escarp Mar 7, 2019, 5:46 PM

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📎 5-1.png

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they did a similar thing in FMA - when Edward lost his right arm, he had to write with his left, and even after he got his automail he still wrote with his left

limpid agate Mar 7, 2019, 5:58 PM

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Which hands does he use for deflect in game?

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Right or left?

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I think its left?

worthy rose Mar 7, 2019, 6:03 PM

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Both, but mostly left

worn solar Mar 7, 2019, 6:13 PM

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Do you think Zenyatta and Moira are the only characters without tragic backstories

limpid agate Mar 7, 2019, 6:14 PM

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Hammond's wasn't exactly tragic

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He did not seem to hold an attatchment to HLC

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Just took the opprotunity to explore Earth

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Brig is also not tragic

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Theres a few others I wouldnt consider tragic either

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Like Doomfist, Reinhardt, McCree

worn solar Mar 7, 2019, 6:16 PM

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How is Rein’s backstory not tragic

limpid agate Mar 7, 2019, 6:16 PM

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How is it

peak escarp Mar 7, 2019, 6:16 PM

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in fiction, happy people don't often become adventurers

worn solar Mar 7, 2019, 6:16 PM

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Honor and Glory

peak escarp Mar 7, 2019, 6:16 PM

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Jewvia, did you forget about Balderich?

limpid agate Mar 7, 2019, 6:16 PM

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Oh that was supposed to be tragic?

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Because he shrugged it off

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In that very short

peak escarp Mar 7, 2019, 6:16 PM

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wow

limpid agate Mar 7, 2019, 6:17 PM

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Like, next immediate scene, he's already shrugged off Balderich's sacrifice and is working with his team with a smile on his face.

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Not all death is a tragic backstory

peak escarp Mar 7, 2019, 6:18 PM

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I don't think he was smiling when he was taking bullets from a Bastion

worthy rose Mar 7, 2019, 6:19 PM

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he died a Viking's death

worn solar Mar 7, 2019, 6:19 PM

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He’s smiling because he honored Balderich’s dying wish

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Wait a minute

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Did he even smile at all

limpid agate Mar 7, 2019, 6:20 PM

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Yes

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After the air raid

peak escarp Mar 7, 2019, 6:21 PM

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didnt look like a smile to me

limpid agate Mar 7, 2019, 6:22 PM

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Looks it to me

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either way

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Not every backstory is tragic.

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And there is also a gradient to tragedy

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Even if you do consider Rein tragic

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Its on the low end

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As opposed to say... Mercy, Baptiste, Mei, Winston, etc.

worn solar Mar 7, 2019, 6:23 PM

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Hammond’s backstory is probably the least tragic of them all though

peak escarp Mar 7, 2019, 6:23 PM

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Moira had her research shut down - I think she would consider that tragic

limpid agate Mar 7, 2019, 6:24 PM

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I dont think even she would consider that tragic

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She would consider it an upset in her research, and an inconvenience

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But hardly tragic

dense estuary Mar 7, 2019, 6:31 PM

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especially since she just rebooted it in Oasis

lean prawn Mar 7, 2019, 6:32 PM

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Reinhardt wasn't smiling, but I wouldn't consider it a tragedy

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he grows as a character and balderich's final request becomes one of his most defining character trait

dense estuary Mar 7, 2019, 6:33 PM

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D.Va is hard to tell how she will end up, only 19 and has seen a lot of people die fighting the OmnicZilla. That has to be leaving some kinda mark.

lean prawn Mar 7, 2019, 6:35 PM

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I'd say the only true tragic backstory in the cast is Widowmaker's

limpid agate Mar 7, 2019, 6:36 PM

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Sure, Widow is

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But what about Winston, who had his home taken from him by a rebellion, and his father figure slain

lean prawn Mar 7, 2019, 6:37 PM

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he also joins overwatch and has a happy ending

limpid agate Mar 7, 2019, 6:37 PM

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Ending != Backstory

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Backstory = The past

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Not the present or future

lean prawn Mar 7, 2019, 6:37 PM

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Winston's past still includes overwatch

limpid agate Mar 7, 2019, 6:37 PM

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In that case

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Up until Recall

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He was alone

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Using your moved goalpost, that's still hardly happy

lean prawn Mar 7, 2019, 6:38 PM

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don't tragedies include a fall from grace though?

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though by that definition, reaper would have a tragic backstory as well

limpid agate Mar 7, 2019, 6:40 PM

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If you only look at the fall from grace and ignore the betrayal and gaseous corpse physiology.

tawny patio Mar 7, 2019, 6:43 PM

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I’m
Definitely calling Rein tragic

limpid agate Mar 7, 2019, 6:44 PM

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Would you call Pharah tragic?

lean prawn Mar 7, 2019, 6:45 PM

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Pharah isn't a tragic character but she does have tragic things happen in her past

limpid agate Mar 7, 2019, 6:46 PM

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So where is the difference between her and Reinhardt?

peak escarp Mar 7, 2019, 6:47 PM

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a lot of people think Pharah would have a tragic story, but they forget how old she was when Ana "died"

lean prawn Mar 7, 2019, 6:47 PM

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how they grew from the tragic events in their past, I guess?

limpid agate Mar 7, 2019, 6:47 PM

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Rein was older

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When Balderich died

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If Pharah is not tragic, surely Reinhardt isn't either

lean prawn Mar 7, 2019, 6:49 PM

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would having a tragic backstory mean that sad or terrible things happen or does the backstory have to classify as a tragedy?

limpid agate Mar 7, 2019, 6:50 PM

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It should mean that the tragic events outweigh the non-tragic events

tawny patio Mar 7, 2019, 6:51 PM

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Rein completely changed his life due to the events of his backstory and was completely melded into a different person over the death of a lot of people and still to this day mourns their loss
Pharah wanted to be a hero, bad things happened, people died but she didn’t major uber change her life, she became a different kind of hero since Overwatch wasn’t a thing and blah blah

There’s a big difference imo unless I’m big missing some information here?

limpid agate Mar 7, 2019, 6:52 PM

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Comparing Reinhardt in Honor and Glory to Uprising and even to his present day himself

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He doesn't seem very different

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Past that, your pluralized deaths of people that effected him is... Just Balderich

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And mourning someone who was important's loss... Is natural. I dont understand the confusion.

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Should you simply forget about the fallen?

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Does the fallen existing mean it must be tragic?

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In that case, wouldnt Zen be tragic because Mondatta died? Or Hammond be tragic because the scientists who raised him were killed?

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Actuall, scratch Hammond

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I dont think he has mourned anyone yet

lean prawn Mar 7, 2019, 6:54 PM

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Reinhardt didn't pay much attention to the people that died because of his recklessness

tawny patio Mar 7, 2019, 6:54 PM

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I’d say Honor and Glory Rein...would probably never have stopped to help the town

limpid agate Mar 7, 2019, 6:54 PM

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I disagree

lean prawn Mar 7, 2019, 6:55 PM

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a tragic backstory doesn't make a tragic character

limpid agate Mar 7, 2019, 6:56 PM

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Likewise, a tragedy existing doesn't make a tragic backstory

lean prawn Mar 7, 2019, 6:56 PM

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how a character develops from those events is how you determine if they're tragic or not

limpid agate Mar 7, 2019, 6:57 PM

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So if after killing her husband, Widowmaker became a bloodthirsty assassin that takes pleasure in killing, she would not be tragic?

tawny patio Mar 7, 2019, 6:58 PM

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Also pluralized deaths wasn’t inaccurate
I lobbed in those in his unit and the other crusaders as well
While I can agree Balderich mattered more than them
A lot more than just Balderich died that day

lean prawn Mar 7, 2019, 6:58 PM

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the tragic part about widow is how her fall was out of her control

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she develops into something terrible with no say in it

limpid agate Mar 7, 2019, 6:58 PM

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So would you suggest that Reaper's fall was in his control?

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Is he, or is he not

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A character with a tragic backstory

lean prawn Mar 7, 2019, 6:59 PM

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reaper's fall is very mcbeth-like

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some factors were in his control but others werent

limpid agate Mar 7, 2019, 6:59 PM

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So if you have shifted to the Shakespearean tragedy, surely no one is tragic

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Other than maybe Reaper/Widow/Baptiste

lean prawn Mar 7, 2019, 7:00 PM

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his discontent with sticking to the rules was his fault but the talon meddling inside his organization was outside of his control

tawny patio Mar 7, 2019, 7:00 PM

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That’s most of the characters I’d consider tragic listed anyway tbh

lean prawn Mar 7, 2019, 7:00 PM

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he chooses to make the fall, but he still fell

limpid agate Mar 7, 2019, 7:01 PM

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Even if you consider him tragic

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Rein is still one of the least tragic heroes in the whole cast

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In a gradient where he apparently lies in the grey zone

lean prawn Mar 7, 2019, 7:01 PM

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he grows into a better person due to balderich's death

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Reinhardt pre-honor and glory didn't really care for the consequences of his actions

tawny patio Mar 7, 2019, 7:02 PM

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I’d say most of them had pretty good lives?
And that even if not as bad as say, Widow
Rein is still one of the worse off?

lean prawn Mar 7, 2019, 7:03 PM

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Reinhardt joins overwatch and saves the world as a part of his backstory

limpid agate Mar 7, 2019, 7:03 PM

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Rein is worse off, compared to the likes of Baptiste, Zarya, Sombra, Lucio, Winston, etc?

lean prawn Mar 7, 2019, 7:03 PM

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balderich's death being tragic does not make it a tragic backstory nor does it make Reinhardt a tragic character

limpid agate Mar 7, 2019, 7:04 PM

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Or Mercy? Jack? Mei? Ashe? Shimadas?

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That's a third of the cast lying on the wrong side of that scale right there. At least

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That's ignoring characters who also fall into this greyzone like Pharah, Tracer, Symmetra, Junkers.

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Actually not Tracer

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Rein is firmly on the "not (very) tragic" half

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Even in a vacuum, his story is hardly tragic

lean prawn Mar 7, 2019, 7:07 PM

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everyone is bound to experience significant loss in their life but it doesn't make the majority of those people as tragic characters

limpid agate Mar 7, 2019, 7:07 PM

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Correct

lean prawn Mar 7, 2019, 7:07 PM

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it's how we grow from loss

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Reinhardt becomes an honorable Knight in the wake of balderich's death

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reaper becomes a vengeful half man-half corpse wraith after the fall of overwatch

tawny patio Mar 7, 2019, 7:16 PM

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I would not count Genji, Mercy, Tracer, Pharah, Sym, Junkrat, or Sombra to be worse off than Rein

Genji has found inner peace as a result of his situation, Mercy is still off helping people, Tracer is leading a fairly normal life set aside the few things she’s done Overwatchy in “recent” history, Junkrat was so young he doesn’t know a difference, Sombra is so good at what she does she can blackmail Volskaya, Sym is literally just a piece on a board

Jack, Mei, Ashe, Hanzo, Widow and maybe Winston I’d say are worse off

Gabe I’d say had enough sway in his own story to be about even?

Which then leaves Hammond, Orisa, Hana, Zen, Brig, Torb, Doomfist Bastion, Moira, Mako, Ana, Lucio all in what I’d say to be much less tragic lives
In my opinion

And Bap...I..am not sure where I would place him...tbh

supple bear Mar 7, 2019, 7:16 PM

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Wait, do we know that Winston's father figure is dead?

limpid agate Mar 7, 2019, 7:16 PM

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But his life was thrown into chaos when the other gorillas led an uprising, killed the mission scientists, and claimed the colony for their own. Taking on the name of his beloved human caretaker, Winston built a makeshift rocket and escaped to Earth

lean prawn Mar 7, 2019, 7:17 PM

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he then joins overwatch, finds a new family, and has that family taken from him as well

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two tragic events are in Winston's backstory, but personally I wouldn't consider him a tragic character

limpid agate Mar 7, 2019, 7:19 PM

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Genji has found inner peace as a result of his situation
How has Reinhardt not found his place in the world as a result of his situation?
Mercy Rein is doing the exact same thing.
Tracer Agreed I corrected myself when I wrote her name. She isn't tragic.
Junkrat was too young I'd argue the opposite. Rein was old enough to be mature about the death of your fellow soldiers in the war. Its not like he was the lone survivor.
Sombra is good at what she does Are you suggesting Reinhardt is bad at what he does?
Sym is just a piece on the board Are you suggesting that being manipulated against your personal doctrines by the people you thought were your saviours is less tragic than reinhardt?

tawny patio Mar 7, 2019, 7:20 PM

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Is rein good enough at what he does that he is able to hold power over Volskaya like Sombra?

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I think you missed the most important detail in that one

lean prawn Mar 7, 2019, 7:21 PM

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Reinhardt is regarded as a hero the world over

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I think he's good at his job

supple bear Mar 7, 2019, 7:21 PM

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@limpid agate What about Harold Winston's missing suit on Horizon?

tawny patio Mar 7, 2019, 7:22 PM

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As for Sym
Does it matter if they’re manipulating you?
You’re treated well, and they are still your saviors, they just had their own motives

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The other ones are again, personal thoughts and I can’t really say you’re wrong for disagreeing with them shrug

limpid agate Mar 7, 2019, 7:23 PM

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What about it?

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We can speculate if he survived, but we have been told in concrete that he was slain

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For all we know, Winston took it when he was smaller

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This was ~12 years ago

supple bear Mar 7, 2019, 7:24 PM

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"killed the mission scientists" seems very vague

limpid agate Mar 7, 2019, 7:25 PM

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I dont know what they used in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91nfDfnGCB0

YouTube

PlayOverwatch

[NOW PLAYABLE] Horizon Lunar Colony | New Assault Map | Overwatch

Horizon Lunar Colony is an Assault map set in a scientific base on the moon. Built as a first step towards humanity's renewed exploration of space, the colon...

▶ Play video

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But that's more recent

supple bear Mar 7, 2019, 7:25 PM

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I don't think that definitively states all of them died

lean prawn Mar 7, 2019, 7:25 PM

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i can see Winston modifying it to fit the body of a gorilla

supple bear Mar 7, 2019, 7:26 PM

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hmmmm

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what would make sense and correspond to the gorilla suit on Gibraltar

lean prawn Mar 7, 2019, 7:28 PM

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like the spare armor set in Gibraltar?

peak escarp Mar 7, 2019, 7:29 PM

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@supple bear the problem with Harold being alive somehow . . . where is he then? How has he not been seen in ~13 years?

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and how would he have gotten off the moon with angry super-apes wanting to kill him?

lean prawn Mar 7, 2019, 7:29 PM

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a survivor of the moon ape rebellion would have headlined around the world too

supple bear Mar 7, 2019, 7:29 PM

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@lean prawn yes the one in attacker spawn point A

lean prawn Mar 7, 2019, 7:30 PM

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he made it after he was recruited into overwatch

tawny patio Mar 7, 2019, 7:30 PM

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I mean in ~13 years they never bothered to take this moon colony back from the apes

peak escarp Mar 7, 2019, 7:30 PM

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would you?

limpid agate Mar 7, 2019, 7:30 PM

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Why bother

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Its on the moon

peak escarp Mar 7, 2019, 7:31 PM

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they abandoned the project

supple bear Mar 7, 2019, 7:31 PM

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Perhaps he got to earth secretly like Hammond

lean prawn Mar 7, 2019, 7:31 PM

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comparing Winston's model size to the probe in the spawn, he'd have to be a lot smaller to fit

tawny patio Mar 7, 2019, 7:31 PM

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Seems like a big investment to just
Let apes that killed your scientists keep it

supple bear Mar 7, 2019, 7:31 PM

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Arrived at Earth in a barren, desolate area

lean prawn Mar 7, 2019, 7:31 PM

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young winston wouldn't be big enough to use the spare suit in gibraltar

limpid agate Mar 7, 2019, 7:31 PM

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Sunk cost fallacy

peak escarp Mar 7, 2019, 7:31 PM

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okay, so he got to earth secretly - where has he been?

limpid agate Mar 7, 2019, 7:31 PM

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Would you spend millions/billions dollars more to go kill a bunch of monkeys on a moon colony no one is going to use for a few decades

supple bear Mar 7, 2019, 7:31 PM

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I dunno

tawny patio Mar 7, 2019, 7:31 PM

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Touche

supple bear Mar 7, 2019, 7:32 PM

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There was a theory about that wheelchair that appeared in Lijiang Control Center

peak escarp Mar 7, 2019, 7:32 PM

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that could belong to anybody

supple bear Mar 7, 2019, 7:32 PM

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Being Harold's wheelchair because he was injured in his escape

limpid agate Mar 7, 2019, 7:32 PM

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Winston still thinks Harold is dead

peak escarp Mar 7, 2019, 7:32 PM

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there's very little connecting it to Harold

supple bear Mar 7, 2019, 7:32 PM

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whether it be by the apes or other reasons

peak escarp Mar 7, 2019, 7:33 PM

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the only thing is a picture on the desk, which again, could belong to anyone

lean prawn Mar 7, 2019, 7:33 PM

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there are also a hundred other employees in the control center that could be using that wheelchair

peak escarp Mar 7, 2019, 7:33 PM

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if Harold was alive, on earth, still working for Lucheng, Winston would have heard about him

lean prawn Mar 7, 2019, 7:33 PM

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also the control center doesn't seem to be wheel-chair accessible

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why is there a wheelchair in there?

peak escarp Mar 7, 2019, 7:34 PM

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📎 8-4.png

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this scene would not make sense

vernal roost Mar 7, 2019, 7:34 PM

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whcih lore topic are we talking about rn

lean prawn Mar 7, 2019, 7:35 PM

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Harold Winston and the wheelchair in lijiang

vernal roost Mar 7, 2019, 7:35 PM

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ohhh yeah

supple bear Mar 7, 2019, 7:37 PM

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There's many ways Winston may not know about Harold on Earth

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Like maybe he's changed his appearance

peak escarp Mar 7, 2019, 7:37 PM

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such as?

supple bear Mar 7, 2019, 7:37 PM

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Identity

lean prawn Mar 7, 2019, 7:37 PM

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why?

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everyone who'd want to kill him is on the moon

supple bear Mar 7, 2019, 7:37 PM

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Maybe the whole wheelchair thing is not related to Harold at all

peak escarp Mar 7, 2019, 7:38 PM

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Winston watches the news - if Harold was ever mentioned, he would have heard about it

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the wheelchair is most likely not related to Harold

supple bear Mar 7, 2019, 7:38 PM

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I don't Harold would not make his presence blatantly obvious

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Maybe he doesn't want Winston to know he's alive

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For some reason Blizzard hasn't given us

peak escarp Mar 7, 2019, 7:39 PM

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all it takes is for word to get out that he is Harold Winston, survivor of the Horizon Lunar Colony, and the news would be all over it

lean prawn Mar 7, 2019, 7:40 PM

#

there wouldn't really be a reason as to why Harold would want to keep his presence hidden from what basically amounts to his son

supple bear Mar 7, 2019, 7:41 PM

#

@lean prawn We don't know that for a fact tho

#

@peak escarp Therefore he would hide his appearance, identity, or something along those lines

peak escarp Mar 7, 2019, 7:42 PM

#

but he couldn't do that alone

#

and someone would talk

#

or it would get out somehow

supple bear Mar 7, 2019, 7:42 PM

#

Or he arrives at a devoid area

peak escarp Mar 7, 2019, 7:43 PM

#

in that case it's the same as him being dead, because he has left the story and is no longer relevant

#

any explanation for him being alive requires too many "what if"s

#

we've been told he's dead - unless something else says he isn't, we should assume that he is dead

supple bear Mar 7, 2019, 7:44 PM

#

well maybe he's in hiding, doing stuff that will affect the lore in the long term

peak escarp Mar 7, 2019, 7:44 PM

#

he's not even that important in the grand scheme of things

#

he's just a researcher

#

from a failed project

supple bear Mar 7, 2019, 7:47 PM

#

he may not important now

#

but maybe he will be in the long term

#

or maybe I'm overthinking this whole thing and he really is just....dead

peak escarp Mar 7, 2019, 7:48 PM

#

yes

#

everyone who we have been told was dead has stayed dead

#

there's no reason for Harold to be an exception

supple bear Mar 7, 2019, 7:49 PM

#

True

peak escarp Mar 7, 2019, 7:50 PM

#

and him being alive would set a dangerous precedent and we'd have even more people asking for Antonio, Sojiro, Vialli, etc. to be brought back

supple bear Mar 7, 2019, 8:04 PM

#

yeah...

#

to be fair tho, some of those characters are definitively dead

#

Antonio got shot in the face with a shotgun, Sojiro must be dead or Hanzo would never have been put in charge of the clan, and Vialli was visually shown being thrown off a bridge by Doomfist

valid shell Mar 7, 2019, 8:06 PM

#

Chest, but yes.

#

I still wonder if these vague "Shimada Elders" were responsible for Sojiro's "Untimely Death".

worthy rose Mar 7, 2019, 8:07 PM

#

Probably.

#

Untimely death is usually a euphemism for assassination.

#

In games.

supple bear Mar 7, 2019, 8:08 PM

#

@valid shell either way Antonio was shot with a shotgun at close range, then proceeded to fly out the window, and fall a few stories

worthy rose Mar 7, 2019, 8:09 PM

#

He might get revived, but I'd rate it unlikely as McCree didn't say anything about that in the ending cutscene

iron plume Mar 7, 2019, 8:09 PM

#

it's unlikely because it undoes the entire point of retribution

supple bear Mar 7, 2019, 8:09 PM

#

All we have on Harold is "killed the mission scientists"

#

which again seems quite vague

#

@iron plume isn't resurrection possible for any character now that we know that it's possible in the OW universe

peak escarp Mar 7, 2019, 8:11 PM

#

it's not possible in the OW universe

iron plume Mar 7, 2019, 8:11 PM

#

it isn't possible, for one

peak escarp Mar 7, 2019, 8:11 PM

#

resurrect is non-canon

supple bear Mar 7, 2019, 8:11 PM

#

Does Mercy not have the power to revive people?

iron plume Mar 7, 2019, 8:11 PM

#

and more to my point, it doesn't make story sense

#

no

peak escarp Mar 7, 2019, 8:11 PM

#

only in the game

#

she has not actually resurrected anyone

#

closest was saving Genji on the brink of death

supple bear Mar 7, 2019, 8:13 PM

#

ok

#

But still, this doesn't prove Harold's dead...

peak escarp Mar 7, 2019, 8:16 PM

#

it's more likely than not that Harold is dead

supple bear Mar 7, 2019, 8:23 PM

#

I guess we'll see...

#

In 3 years at blizz's pace of lore drops

peak escarp Mar 7, 2019, 8:26 PM

#

last year shouldn't be counted - there were internal reasons why the lore was halted

#

we got plenty of lore in 2017 and 2016

#

I expect things to return to those levels

fossil isle Mar 7, 2019, 8:39 PM

#

yeah in gameplay Mercy resurrects but I think in lore it could be that her medical expertise is so amazing she can cure a patient even on the verge of death?

peak escarp Mar 7, 2019, 8:40 PM

#

modern doctors can revive people after clinical death

#

her skill would be similar to that

#

but after too long, the brain suffers permanent damage, so reviving someone can only done within a short window

#

it's not like someone can drag a body out of the river days later and bring them back to life

fossil isle Mar 7, 2019, 8:42 PM

#

oh yeah for sure. like maybe the short window before "death" in game is the time when Mercy can get to the yellow soul wisps above our bodies before they disappear

valid shell Mar 7, 2019, 8:48 PM

#

Genji might have been straight up

#

Like

#

GONE, when Overwatch recovered him.

#

I wouldn't be surprised if we eventually get a shot of him suspended in a tank with a spiderweb of tubes connected to him.

supple bear Mar 7, 2019, 8:54 PM

#

Do we actually know what happened to genji in the fight against hanzo

peak escarp Mar 7, 2019, 8:57 PM

#

The tension between the brothers built to a violent confrontation that left Genji on the verge of dying.

#

Genji was not dead when Overwatch saved him

supple bear Mar 7, 2019, 9:03 PM

#

So we know a general area of where he was injured and that it was probably a sword battle, correct?

#

Anything else?

dawn halo Mar 7, 2019, 9:04 PM

#

The first time, he was put into his Blackwatch version of his cybernetic body, as only a major part was turned cyborg. Then something happened or him nearly dying again after encountering Doomfist, which possibly caused him to be in his current appearance.

peak escarp Mar 7, 2019, 9:04 PM

#

we know that Overwatch was already observing the Shimadas before the fight, so they were in a position where they could get him aid on short notice

dawn halo Mar 7, 2019, 9:04 PM

#

@supple bear From a little wikiviewing, Hanzo knew more than sword fighting and bowmanship.

peak escarp Mar 7, 2019, 9:05 PM

#

@dawn halo he had his current body when he fought Doomfist

fossil isle Mar 7, 2019, 9:06 PM

#

Genji never wanted the Shimada clan legacy to begin with. He must've been away travelling or some other leisurely activity when Hanzo was tasked in tracking him down and bringing him back. Im assuming it was a swordfight between brothers since Hanzo was deeply traumatized over his brother's death that he forsook swordsmanship as atonement. Im also assuming their fight happened in an urban area. Hanzo found Genji doing some fun things and berating his younger brother for not taking the clan's legacy seriously. "you will return Genji or I will take you back by force" kinda scene probably happened.

Genji resisted, the fought. Hanzo, at some point, probably injured Genji but I don't think he truly wanted to kill his brother. The fight may have ended up with them being in some dangerous place in the city and Genji was done in, not by Hanzo's blade, but by environmental damage (maybe vehicular accident, being crushed by a heavy object, etc

peak escarp Mar 7, 2019, 9:06 PM

#

their fight happened in Shimada castle

fossil isle Mar 7, 2019, 9:06 PM

#

ok lol i missed that part

dawn halo Mar 7, 2019, 9:06 PM

#

Doctor, I know, but this makes the assumption Genji's body failed him and almost died in a moment between Retribution and before fighting Doomfist that his Blackwatch body was turned into his current.

fossil isle Mar 7, 2019, 9:06 PM

#

Ok REVISION TIME: Genji probably fell off something?

#

or was crushed by something still?

peak escarp Mar 7, 2019, 9:07 PM

#

I always figured that getting his final body was his reward for completing his mission against the Shimada clan

#

and then when he loses to Doomfist, his feelings of dysphoria are renewed and he goes off to find himself

dawn halo Mar 7, 2019, 9:08 PM

#

But the Shimadas were dismantled before Retribution occured, and Genji was in his Blackwatch cybernetic body during Retribution.

peak escarp Mar 7, 2019, 9:08 PM

#

no

#

📎 7-3.png

#

from Uprising

#

"Blackwatch under scrutiny after complaint from Japanese Government"

#

we don't know when the Shimadas were dismantled, but this seems related

fossil isle Mar 7, 2019, 9:09 PM

#

that could've been coincidence. im not sure that has anything to do with the Shimada clan

dawn halo Mar 7, 2019, 9:09 PM

#

Actually, he could have gotten his current body to hide his affiliation with Blackwatch, because BW loved black and red, and Genji's Blackwatch body had black and red.

peak escarp Mar 7, 2019, 9:09 PM

#

Retribution happens pretty soon after Genji completes his transition into his cyborg body, I think

dawn halo Mar 7, 2019, 9:11 PM

#

But the fight that put Genji into the condition for needing a cybernetic body must involve much more types of fighting, like unarmed combat, sword combat, using the environment to their advantage, etc.

peak escarp Mar 7, 2019, 9:15 PM

#

we don't know much about the fight

#

and part of me doubts it will ever be shown because of the graphic nature of the fight and the fact that OW is PG13

iron plume Mar 7, 2019, 9:16 PM

#

T

#

PG13 is a movie thing
but yes

#

it's actually more restrictive

peak escarp Mar 7, 2019, 9:16 PM

#

same idea

#

they can't show graphic violence or excessive blood

#

the sort of thing you'd expect from someone getting their arm and legs chopped off (and not instantly cauterized by a lightsaber/lava)

dawn halo Mar 7, 2019, 9:18 PM

#

Graphic Overwatch is more around something I do at times.

fossil isle Mar 7, 2019, 9:19 PM

#

graphic violence and blood display doesn't have to be present for a compelling and artful delivery of the story. they can work around their restrictions but we they gotta put the lore out

dawn halo Mar 7, 2019, 9:21 PM

#

They can, but graphic imagery makes it more compelling.

frosty shell Mar 7, 2019, 9:23 PM

#

They could also show what Genji's body looked like before it was cyborg-ized

dawn halo Mar 7, 2019, 9:24 PM

#

That too.

lean prawn Mar 7, 2019, 9:29 PM

#

genji has pre-cyborg skins

dawn halo Mar 7, 2019, 9:30 PM

#

They do, but we do need a print or a digital picture when Overwatch found Genji after his fight with Hanzo and prior to cyberization.

inland citrus Mar 7, 2019, 9:34 PM

#

He like didn't have arms and legs whatsoever right

peak escarp Mar 7, 2019, 9:35 PM

#

his left arm survived

#

his right arm and his legs below the knees all seem to be cybernetic

#

based on how he looks in his Blackwatch skin

dawn halo Mar 7, 2019, 9:41 PM

#

But then his current body was full body cyberized

peak escarp Mar 7, 2019, 9:43 PM

#

could just be plating

#

there's still human parts under there, or else he wouldn't be a cyborg

#

it wouldn't make sense to remove functioning flesh parts

#

and Genji does say "the heart of a man still beats inside me"

dawn halo Mar 7, 2019, 9:56 PM

#

How does Hanzo and Genji activate their dragons because that's literally impossible without technology.

#

Don't say it's spirit dragons.

peak escarp Mar 7, 2019, 9:56 PM

#

they haven't explained it

dawn halo Mar 7, 2019, 9:57 PM

#

But I do have a little insane theory that goes into the territory of another franchise but makes sense nevertheless that explains their dragons.

#

I won't explain it on here for reasons.

peak escarp Mar 7, 2019, 9:58 PM

#

a lot of people think it's connected to Hanzo's tattoo somehow

#

but there's no evidence of Genji having a similar tattoo

dawn halo Mar 7, 2019, 10:00 PM

#

But does Sojiro, Genji and Hanzo's father, possess a dragon when he was younger?

peak escarp Mar 7, 2019, 10:00 PM

#

we don't know anything about Sojiro

#

he's only been mentioned a couple times

#

I think it's connected to their weapons and involves a secret family technique

dawn halo Mar 7, 2019, 10:03 PM

#

I think it's related to the weapons and genetics.

mint lodge Mar 7, 2019, 10:04 PM

#

What if they are aliens

worn solar Mar 7, 2019, 10:04 PM

#

How did Mercy manage to save Genji?

mint lodge Mar 7, 2019, 10:04 PM

#

and they actually are the cragons

#

dragons*

#

like somewhat alien

#

prob unlikely

dawn halo Mar 7, 2019, 10:05 PM

#

It's unlikely, and Overwatch knew about the fight before it's conclusion, so they had time to bring assets into Japan to save Genji's life. And Mercy saved him by attaching his cybernetic body.

worn solar Mar 7, 2019, 10:05 PM

#

Why did they go out of their way to save him?

mint lodge Mar 7, 2019, 10:05 PM

#

They saw potential

worn solar Mar 7, 2019, 10:05 PM

#

Did they hear about his dragon powers?

peak escarp Mar 7, 2019, 10:06 PM

#

and because they're good people who wouldn't just stand by and let someone die

#

Mercy didn't create his cybernetic body - she just attached it

dawn halo Mar 7, 2019, 10:07 PM

#

It's unlikely that they would learn about the powers, because only a few people would know about it.

peak escarp Mar 7, 2019, 10:07 PM

#

it's implied that she saved his life and got him stabilized . . . then Overwatch gave him the option of a cyborg body in exchange for his help

#

he could have said no and lived as a cripple

mint lodge Mar 7, 2019, 10:08 PM

#

he's part of a huge criminal syndicate in Japan that can be manipulated by talon

peak escarp Mar 7, 2019, 10:08 PM

#

the Shimada clan is not connected to Talon

#

Talon approached Sojiro but he rejected them

dawn halo Mar 7, 2019, 10:08 PM

#

And Genji probably underwent trials like Tracer did but different before he was inducted into Blackwatch.

valid shell Mar 7, 2019, 10:09 PM

#

Doomfist proposed Hanzo twice in in-game lines, and Widowmaker once, and he turns them down both times.

mint lodge Mar 7, 2019, 10:09 PM

#

yeah

valid shell Mar 7, 2019, 10:09 PM

#

Sojiro and Hanzo were abjectly against Talon.

mint lodge Mar 7, 2019, 10:09 PM

#

true

dawn halo Mar 7, 2019, 10:09 PM

#

And Genji was FIGHTING them directly as shown in Retribution.

valid shell Mar 7, 2019, 10:10 PM

#

Well, so were Reaper and Moira.

worn solar Mar 7, 2019, 10:10 PM

#

One day we’ll get a five-way free-for-all battle between Overwatch, Talon, the Deadlock Gang, the Shimada Clan, and Junkrat and Roadhog

dawn halo Mar 7, 2019, 10:11 PM

#

A five way FFA? That's gonna destroy a city.

valid shell Mar 7, 2019, 10:11 PM

#

You can do that now in custom games.

#

Not really applicable here.

dawn halo Mar 7, 2019, 10:12 PM

#

But still, if that was to happen realistically, perhaps there will be a shit ton of military forces there to apprehend them becuse four are wanted by the UN, alongside possibly destroying a city due to the mayhem it would cause.

worn solar Mar 7, 2019, 10:12 PM

#

What would they want to fight over?

#

Echo?

slow goblet Mar 7, 2019, 10:12 PM

#

Echo, Junkrat’s treasure...

#

Lots of stuff to fight for

dawn halo Mar 7, 2019, 10:13 PM

#

Perhaps a powerful weapon?

#

Or the Illuminati could be pulling the strings to make them fight.

#

AKA: The Conspiracy

worn solar Mar 7, 2019, 10:15 PM

#

Do you ever wonder if we’ll get a UN character?

#

Like, I don’t know, a detective sent to investigate a possible violation of the PETRAS act?

dawn halo Mar 7, 2019, 10:16 PM

#

Or perhaps an Overwatch present day world leader.

worn solar Mar 7, 2019, 10:20 PM

#

When Genji told Hanzo that it was “time to pick a side”, is there an implication that Genji answered Winston’s call?

peak escarp Mar 7, 2019, 10:22 PM

#

yes

#

he's unconfirmed but likely to return

#

Reinhardt is returning, and will bring Brigitte with him

#

Mei returned, Tracer returned

dawn halo Mar 7, 2019, 10:25 PM

#

And Winston has returned by default due to his role in the recall.

peak escarp Mar 7, 2019, 10:26 PM

#

Torbjorn we haven't seen answer, but the best place to take Bastion would be Overwatch, so it would make sense to take it there

#

McCree says not yet, so he'll join eventually

worn solar Mar 7, 2019, 10:37 PM

#

Are Morrison and Ana just screwing around in the Middle East, then?

peak escarp Mar 7, 2019, 10:38 PM

#

they going to met "old friends", whoever that is

#

I think they're going to go talk to Winston, but other people think differently

#

Ana wanted to take Jack to Mercy, but he said no

#

so she doesn't know they're alive

#

if we count Genji's "pick a side" as confirmation of his answer, Mercy is the only former Overwatch member we haven't seen respond to Recall

queen sable Mar 7, 2019, 10:42 PM

#

Echo makes me feel like the story is gonna start picking up

iron plume Mar 7, 2019, 10:42 PM

#

the only presumed alive overwatch member anyway

queen sable Mar 7, 2019, 10:42 PM

#

Do you guys think Hanzo will join overwatch?

iron plume Mar 7, 2019, 10:42 PM

#

wait does moira count as a former overwatch member

queen sable Mar 7, 2019, 10:42 PM

#

Yeah

iron plume Mar 7, 2019, 10:43 PM

#

then we haven't seen her either

queen sable Mar 7, 2019, 10:43 PM

#

She was an overwatch scientist turned blackwatch agent

iron plume Mar 7, 2019, 10:43 PM

#

she was a blackwatch scientist

#

but bw are part of overwatch

queen sable Mar 7, 2019, 10:43 PM

#

She started out in overwatch then got put into blackwatch I think

#

Gotta watch her origin again to confirm

iron plume Mar 7, 2019, 10:43 PM

#

there's nothing about her being in overwatch "proper"

#

she's in a generic lab before the scene of reyes contacting her

queen sable Mar 7, 2019, 10:44 PM

#

Hmm

#

I guess I must’ve just assumed she was

#

I don’t think Moira would be contacted, they probably know she is a part of talon

iron plume Mar 7, 2019, 10:46 PM

#

I don't know if they do, but she was booted from OW before its end

peak escarp Mar 7, 2019, 10:47 PM

#

I was under the impression that she was kicked out

iron plume Mar 7, 2019, 10:47 PM

#

so she wouldn't get a recall

peak escarp Mar 7, 2019, 10:47 PM

#

so I don't think she'd get the recall

queen sable Mar 7, 2019, 10:47 PM

#

Genji became part of overwatch proper by the time new doomfist came

#

So I wonder when the doomfist fight happened

#

Had to have been pretty close to the end

iron plume Mar 7, 2019, 10:48 PM

#

within the last year of old overwatch

peak escarp Mar 7, 2019, 10:48 PM

#

I think the Doomfist fight happens

#

yeah

#

after the Swiss HQ explosion, but before the Petras Act was signed

queen sable Mar 7, 2019, 10:49 PM

#

I also feel like the vishkar corporation is also part of talon

peak escarp Mar 7, 2019, 10:49 PM

#

I think if it was before the Swiss HQ explosion, Jack and Gabe would have been on that mission

queen sable Mar 7, 2019, 10:49 PM

#

Cause vishkar has been shown to be really shady

peak escarp Mar 7, 2019, 10:49 PM

#

Sanjay is part of Talon

iron plume Mar 7, 2019, 10:49 PM

#

the corporation itself isn't, but Sanjay is on their council

peak escarp Mar 7, 2019, 10:50 PM

#

Vishkar seems to be doing good things for people (in bad ways, but their intent is benign)

iron plume Mar 7, 2019, 10:50 PM

#

they might still be working with talon because they cause more chaos

#

= more distraught areas = more opportunities for vishkar to take over

peak escarp Mar 7, 2019, 10:50 PM

#

at least Satya is convinced they're doing good things for people

iron plume Mar 7, 2019, 10:51 PM

#

to the world it just looks like a region recently ravaged by conflict that's then helped by vishkar

queen sable Mar 7, 2019, 10:52 PM

#

I kinda feel doomfist should be the leader of the talon council

magic sable Mar 7, 2019, 10:53 PM

#

what if the Overwatch story was all fake and it was all just roleplay in roblox

peak escarp Mar 7, 2019, 10:54 PM

#

he basically is the leader

#

nobody wants to oppose him and get thrown off a balcony

queen sable Mar 7, 2019, 10:54 PM

#

Reaper maybe

#

But i doubt it

peak escarp Mar 7, 2019, 10:54 PM

#

Reaper seems content to be doing his own thing

#

Moira just cares about science

#

we don't know what Sanjay or Max's goals are

queen sable Mar 7, 2019, 10:56 PM

#

Reaper wants to kill overwatch and it’s members

peak escarp Mar 7, 2019, 10:56 PM

#

or McManaway, if they're on the council

queen sable Mar 7, 2019, 10:56 PM

#

Maximilian probably just wants money

iron plume Mar 7, 2019, 10:57 PM

#

he's pretty set for that
I think there actually might be more to him than we've seen

queen sable Mar 7, 2019, 10:58 PM

#

I hope we get more lore stories again

#

Like Bastet

peak escarp Mar 7, 2019, 10:58 PM

#

I hope so too

#

at the very least, we'll get something next month with Archives

#

but I hope we get something else too

supple bear Mar 7, 2019, 11:13 PM

#

How many talon members got revealed in the baptiste teaser?

#

The only one I'm recalling is Cuerva and the 3 dudes who were sent after Baptiste

peak escarp Mar 7, 2019, 11:19 PM

#

F. McManaway was the commander the letter was sent to
Trung le Nguyen was the senior analyst who found Cuerva's log
Cpt. D. Cuerva was Baptiste's squad captain and trainer
Pacanowsky, Mazzei and Doubleday were the three agents on Cuerva's team that Baptiste captured

limpid agate Mar 7, 2019, 11:20 PM

#

The last 4 are MIA, presumed dead

supple bear Mar 7, 2019, 11:23 PM

#

I thought it was only the last 3

#

Cuerva's dead too?

fossil isle Mar 7, 2019, 11:26 PM

#

do we know what Talon strives to achieve other than "strengthening humanity through conflict"

limpid agate Mar 7, 2019, 11:27 PM

#

@supple bear Cuerva is also missing

#

@fossil isle Some want profit

supple bear Mar 7, 2019, 11:31 PM

#

Are those 4 dead or missing?

peak escarp Mar 7, 2019, 11:32 PM

#

📎 nesskain-nesskain-owo-bap-1070-splashl.png

#

they look pretty alive here

supple bear Mar 7, 2019, 11:32 PM

#

Wait, those 3 are the same 3 people sent after Baptiste?

peak escarp Mar 7, 2019, 11:32 PM

#

I assume so

#

it matches the description of the event

supple bear Mar 7, 2019, 11:33 PM

#

I'M SO WOKE

fossil isle Mar 7, 2019, 11:33 PM

#

is it possible to just shoot doomfist with a gun and he dies right away? after all he wears no upper body protection and it's not as if his gauntlet gives him 360 degree defense. and idk about the shields, that might just be an in-game ability to protect him as a close-quarters hero. thoughts?

#

and its not as if he is bulletproof

peak escarp Mar 7, 2019, 11:33 PM

#

pretty sure being shot in the head would kill most of the heroes

#

except maybe Reaper

supple bear Mar 7, 2019, 11:34 PM

#

So we can assume those 3 are the same 3 sent after Bap, but where's Cuerva then?

fossil isle Mar 7, 2019, 11:34 PM

#

but then hmm.....i see reaper shooting winston and its not like winston is wearing full body armor and he doesnt die. WHUUUUT

peak escarp Mar 7, 2019, 11:35 PM

#

cartoon logic

fossil isle Mar 7, 2019, 11:35 PM

#

maybe Cuerva was on comms?

supple bear Mar 7, 2019, 11:35 PM

#

Is there text stating he went after Baptiste and was caught

peak escarp Mar 7, 2019, 11:35 PM

#

Baptiste told Cuerva to come find him

supple bear Mar 7, 2019, 11:35 PM

#

Right, but did he do so?

peak escarp Mar 7, 2019, 11:35 PM

#

the letter Nguyen sent to McManaway was Cuerva's last log

#

he disappeared in August

#

Nguyen's report is from February

supple bear Mar 7, 2019, 11:36 PM

#

February of the following year I presume?

peak escarp Mar 7, 2019, 11:37 PM

#

yes

#

that would place the report close to the time when Doomfist returned to Talon

#

since that was during Carnivale, which is usually in February

open horizon Mar 8, 2019, 3:03 AM

#

hey guys is sombra a shimada

#

because she can hack away genji's dragon

#

and only a shimada can control the dragons

#

so uh

iron plume Mar 8, 2019, 3:05 AM

#

gameplay isn't lore

fossil isle Mar 8, 2019, 3:05 AM

#

can sombra hack ults that are being channeled?

valid shell Mar 8, 2019, 3:06 AM

#

Gameplay isn't lore.

finite axle Mar 8, 2019, 4:04 AM

#

it’s sad how tracer was this serious character because of her lore to some people but ever since no mercy her amazing past is like dead and she’s just a meme

limpid agate Mar 8, 2019, 4:30 AM

#

What the hell are you talking about

iron plume Mar 8, 2019, 4:30 AM

#

the people for whom she's just a meme never gave a shit about her character anyway

#

No Mercy is the "i'm already tracer" song

limpid agate Mar 8, 2019, 4:40 AM

#

Oh

#

Who cares

#

Its not lore

iron plume Mar 8, 2019, 4:41 AM

#

he's saying people stopped caring about her lore because of it

#

which is a big thonk

fallen bramble Mar 8, 2019, 8:34 AM

#

Sombra cant hack visor while she can hack dragons

#

Makes sense

round path Mar 8, 2019, 9:22 AM

#

So if gameplay isnt lore mercy cant actually resurrect people?

fallen bramble Mar 8, 2019, 9:48 AM

#

swiShook

slow goblet Mar 8, 2019, 9:57 AM

#

Rez has been confirmed non cannon

#

I am afraid she is not a necromercer.

round path Mar 8, 2019, 9:58 AM

#

ah i see thanks i didnt know that

regal coyote Mar 8, 2019, 11:44 AM

#

Carnivale is in Feb yes

#

so yeah around doomfisty time

#

so we can assume the command to hunt down bapt might be pre-doomfist

#

we can also assume talon's predoomfist activities has gotten from neutralish to worse

#

original talon seem to be just another power trying to carve out a terriatory of control, hence bapt feels ok about it.

#

most likely it went from power struggle and war stuff to something else.

wanton flower Mar 8, 2019, 12:21 PM

#

So over watch or black watch

supple bear Mar 8, 2019, 12:42 PM

#

If ur talking favorites I’d go with blackwatch

regal coyote Mar 8, 2019, 2:43 PM

#

talon ftw

#

i would say junkers but they are too low-tech realtively speaking

#

wonder if there is a more high tech type anti-omnic fraction for me

#

in the future maybe

floral flint Mar 8, 2019, 3:19 PM

#

When does the archive event start?

chilly peak Mar 8, 2019, 3:19 PM

#

Mid april

floral flint Mar 8, 2019, 3:21 PM

#

Nice

#

Will it include Ashe or baptiste though?

#

Or none?

supple bear Mar 8, 2019, 3:29 PM

#

I thought it was early April

#

The previous two years saw archives launch on April 11 and 10

#

Teasers came out on April 5 and April 4

#

If we go by this logic, teasers will come out by April 3 and the event should drop in April 9, but blizz is probably gonna jebait us

wanton flower Mar 8, 2019, 3:37 PM

#

oh cool well do you know what it sabout

#

about*

limpid agate Mar 8, 2019, 3:43 PM

#

I dont see why it would include Ashe

#

She has never worked with anyone but McCree

#

But it may include Baptiste

#

That is just speculation

valid shell Mar 8, 2019, 4:08 PM

#

~~Baptiste, Doomfist, Sombra, Widowmaker~~

supple bear Mar 8, 2019, 4:14 PM

#

@wanton flower I'd say high chances for a talon mission

regal coyote Mar 8, 2019, 4:44 PM

#

yes

#

or whitedome?

limpid agate Mar 8, 2019, 4:46 PM

#

No Emre

#

Not likely

valid shell Mar 8, 2019, 4:48 PM

#

@regal coyote What, Reinhardt again, Torbjorn again, Ana (again if we're counting Junkenstein), and a new hero before April?

regal coyote Mar 8, 2019, 4:56 PM

#

wishful thinking is that they introduce playable grunt in mission mode

#

aka unbalanced simple character

arctic crystal Mar 8, 2019, 4:56 PM

#

Any lore about moira ?

regal coyote Mar 8, 2019, 4:56 PM

#

we KNOW they are playable and have skills mapped like normal hero

arctic crystal Mar 8, 2019, 4:57 PM

#

Please increase my iq

regal coyote Mar 8, 2019, 4:57 PM

#

since that korean hack incident

#

allowing people playing as creeps from various missions, liek the heavy from retribution

#

so it is possible to be a playabe gruntt in ana rhive mission?

#

it would be fun

valid shell Mar 8, 2019, 4:58 PM

#

Nah.

clever silo Mar 8, 2019, 5:52 PM

#

I think we’ll get something involving Echo

#

For Archives

#

I think White Dome has something to do with Echo, but we don’t get White Dome because no Emre

peak escarp Mar 8, 2019, 5:54 PM

#

why?

dawn halo Mar 8, 2019, 5:55 PM

#

Nebulak, we don't know what Echo is when it comes to capabilities.

limpid agate Mar 8, 2019, 5:59 PM

#

We dont even know if Echo was part of Overwatch

#

Just that she worked with McCree

peak escarp Mar 8, 2019, 6:00 PM

#

it's implied that she was part of Overwatch

limpid agate Mar 8, 2019, 6:00 PM

#

No more than Athena

peak escarp Mar 8, 2019, 6:01 PM

#

otherwise McCree would have needed to explain more than just "getting the band back together"

#

Echo knows what he means by that

limpid agate Mar 8, 2019, 6:01 PM

#

If they worked together post Overwatch

peak escarp Mar 8, 2019, 6:01 PM

#

Athena is part of Overwatch too

limpid agate Mar 8, 2019, 6:01 PM

#

And he talked about the band

#

Athena and Echo being part of Overwatch is unconfirmed

peak escarp Mar 8, 2019, 6:03 PM

#

Echo also knows who Winston is

#

if she doesn't, McCree's instructions were very confusing

limpid agate Mar 8, 2019, 6:06 PM

#

I'm sure Efi knows who Winston is too

peak escarp Mar 8, 2019, 6:09 PM

#

would the public know that Winston doesn't like being called a monkey?

dense estuary Mar 8, 2019, 6:10 PM

#

its probably on his SpaceBook page

limpid agate Mar 8, 2019, 6:10 PM

#

The public would know that Winston is a monkey, and a part of Overwatch.

peak escarp Mar 8, 2019, 6:11 PM

#

Echo seemed to know that Winston doesn't like being called a monkey, based on her reaction

limpid agate Mar 8, 2019, 6:11 PM

#

Thats not what I got from it at all

dawn halo Mar 8, 2019, 6:11 PM

#

Any other secret, Overwatch hides them because organizations can keep secrets unless the person which the secret applies to or some unforeseen circumstances causes it to be spread out.

#

~~I'm looking at you Sombra with the latter.~~

peak escarp Mar 8, 2019, 6:12 PM

#

if Echo doesn't know Winston personally, then McCree's correction of "scientist, whatever" would be very confusing

limpid agate Mar 8, 2019, 6:12 PM

#

More of a delayed reaction

#

"Monkey? Oh the scientist monkey"

peak escarp Mar 8, 2019, 6:16 PM

#

I still think, based on the context of the scene, Echo knows Winston (and was likely a member of Overwatch)

#

whether she is or not will be revealed when she gets added to the game

dawn halo Mar 8, 2019, 6:19 PM

#

Overwatch's Headquarters.

#

And related to Winston being called a monkey, the newspaper related to Doomfist's defeat's headline was "Gorilla From the Moon Saves the Day." but it could have a description of the events or who he is, so adults won't easily be calling him a monkey if they know who he is in name from a newspaper article.

worthy rose Mar 8, 2019, 6:26 PM

#

well, first backstory mission was actually overwatch

#

second was blackwatch

dawn halo Mar 8, 2019, 6:26 PM

#

Third would be Talon.

worthy rose Mar 8, 2019, 6:26 PM

#

so the 3rd one's gonna be talon's side by common sense

dawn halo Mar 8, 2019, 6:27 PM

#

However, Blizzard can pull a 180 on us.

worthy rose Mar 8, 2019, 6:27 PM

#

they can pull a sneaky on us

peak escarp Mar 8, 2019, 6:28 PM

#

people have been saying they won't repeat heroes, but that's just something we assume

#

they could do another Overwatch/Blackwatch mission

dawn halo Mar 8, 2019, 6:28 PM

#

They could repeat heroes but infrequently and with other heroes they haven't been with before.

#

Or we could get introduced to another mission from another branch of Overwatch.

#

Like Airwatch or Sciwatch or...

#

Seawatch.

#

And I think Overwatch has multiple branches like a nation's armed forces. With the military high command led by Morrison and the civilian high command led by Petras.

clever silo Mar 8, 2019, 6:47 PM

#

This is why I think Echo has to do with White Dome

#

https://imgur.com/a/iEoxeX7

#

That white thing looks very similar to the unopened Route 66 payload, and due to the slight differences between other things on the web (Doomfist’s gauntlet, Orisa, etc.) I think it probably isn’t too different

#

It’s connected to Reinhardt, Torbjorn, and Brigitte on the web

#

They grew a lot closer as a result of White Dome, and White Dome was the reason Reinhardt became Brigitte’s godfather

dawn halo Mar 8, 2019, 6:49 PM

#

How does it relate to them being connected to the Illuminati.

clever silo Mar 8, 2019, 6:50 PM

#

I didn’t mention anything about the eye

#

I’m talking about the white capsule that’s on a string directly attached to the eye

dawn halo Mar 8, 2019, 6:51 PM

#

I call the conspiracy the Illuminati because they have the same goals.

clever silo Mar 8, 2019, 6:51 PM

#

I’m not even going to reply to that statement

dawn halo Mar 8, 2019, 6:52 PM

#

And that's why Sombra was attacked and had to go into hiding, she almost figured out the truth and made a desperate attempt to stop her and it worked.

limpid agate Mar 8, 2019, 6:54 PM

#

That's not echo

#

That's the omega omnic from the cover of First Strike

dawn halo Mar 8, 2019, 6:54 PM

#

I'm talking about the Conspiracy, not Echo.

limpid agate Mar 8, 2019, 6:55 PM

#

I'm talking about that picture

#

That white thing

#

Is the omnic from First Strike

dawn halo Mar 8, 2019, 6:56 PM

#

Oh, that, but I'm moving on from the picture and I think the Conspiracy is the Illuminati under a different name.

valid shell Mar 8, 2019, 6:57 PM

#

I mean

#

Conspiracies, Shadow Governments, Men Behind The Curtain, String-Pullers, etc.

#

Whatever you want to call them.

#

They're everywhere in media.

#

The Illuminati didn't invent the concept.

clever silo Mar 8, 2019, 7:00 PM

#

I don’t think that looks anything like the Omnic on the cover of first if it’s the one I think you’re talking about

limpid agate Mar 8, 2019, 7:00 PM

#

The only difference is the omega painted on

#

Compare the architecture

#

They're identical

clever silo Mar 8, 2019, 7:00 PM

#

The orange one right?

limpid agate Mar 8, 2019, 7:01 PM

#

No

#

📎 Overwatch_First_Strike_Front_Cover_Art.png

#

The one in the front

clever silo Mar 8, 2019, 7:01 PM

#

Ohhh I thought you meant the orange one got it let me look

limpid agate Mar 8, 2019, 7:01 PM

#

Architecture is identical, including the vertical slots next to the lights

#

It is very likely a copy pasted image from First Strike

#

Like how every other picture there is also something we have already seen

clever silo Mar 8, 2019, 7:03 PM

#

I kinda see it with like

#

The three eyes

valid shell Mar 8, 2019, 7:04 PM

#

Anyways, I'll put money on no Echo for Archives 2019.

limpid agate Mar 8, 2019, 7:04 PM

#

Agreed

regal coyote Mar 8, 2019, 7:15 PM

#

on athena

#

given that athena have access to functions like recall i would at least say she has to be in overwatch, or at least be allowed into the overwatch system, some time during her functions

#

but for echo we dont know anything

limpid agate Mar 8, 2019, 7:17 PM

#

You just need access to the database

regal coyote Mar 8, 2019, 7:17 PM

#

we are just sure that she is sleeping/gone before mccree lost his arm

limpid agate Mar 8, 2019, 7:17 PM

#

I'm sure Sombra can access it just the same

#

Before someone says "why didn't they just send Sombra back in Recall"

#

Because she didnt exist yet

#

She was probably still throwing knives looking like Ana when they started working on the short

regal coyote Mar 8, 2019, 7:19 PM

#

yes

#

she exist as in she is a hacker, but other than that her looks and abilities are totally not defined at that point

#

though i would love to have an "origin" skin with her wearing a mask

devout sable Mar 8, 2019, 7:43 PM

#

@dawn halo I'm not sure if "the Conspiracy" is even a thing

dawn halo Mar 8, 2019, 8:25 PM

#

I'm talking about the thing that Sombra did and got her attacked, that's the name of what she nearly found out and had to go into hiding for.

limpid agate Mar 8, 2019, 8:52 PM

#

We dont know what it is called

#

We just call it a conspiracy, lower case

#

Not as a title

lime ginkgo Mar 8, 2019, 9:15 PM

#

what if baptise is really soldier 76 from the future

dawn halo Mar 8, 2019, 9:18 PM

#

Soldier: 76 is Caucasian while Baptise is of African descent, it would make no sense.

lime ginkgo Mar 8, 2019, 9:18 PM

#

but what if he died and was reborn into a african, muscular body

worthy rose Mar 8, 2019, 9:18 PM

#

wtf

lime ginkgo Mar 8, 2019, 9:18 PM

#

yas

dawn halo Mar 8, 2019, 9:18 PM

#

What if's are spotty. And Jack is still alive in the present day.

lime ginkgo Mar 8, 2019, 9:19 PM

#

just watch

worthy rose Mar 8, 2019, 9:19 PM

#

And this what if in particular makes so many assumptions for no particular reason

supple bear Mar 8, 2019, 9:19 PM

#

@lime ginkgo wtf r u smoking

lime ginkgo Mar 8, 2019, 9:20 PM

#

maybe

worthy rose Mar 8, 2019, 9:20 PM

#

Correction: because Strike Commander Morrison had an eyepiece that looks kinda similar.

lime ginkgo Mar 8, 2019, 9:20 PM

#

what if i am smoking

dawn halo Mar 8, 2019, 9:20 PM

#

You'll need help.

lime ginkgo Mar 8, 2019, 9:20 PM

#

thnx

dawn halo Mar 8, 2019, 9:21 PM

#

I think Ana gave you thirty Nano Boosts one after another and it's affecting your cognitive ability.

lime ginkgo Mar 8, 2019, 9:21 PM

#

lol yeah ive been playing too much overwatch

iron plume Mar 8, 2019, 9:21 PM

#

There's always some shitposter but you guys know better than to enable them

dawn halo Mar 8, 2019, 9:22 PM

#

@lime ginkgo !!shitposting

iron plume Mar 8, 2019, 9:22 PM

#

that doesn't work without the role fyi
but I think they got the message

lime ginkgo Mar 8, 2019, 9:23 PM

#

but hey, baptiste and sodier basically have the same gear, like doomperson said, they both have eyepieces, but they both also have robotic legs and healing grenades

peak escarp Mar 8, 2019, 9:23 PM

#

neither of them have robotic legs

iron plume Mar 8, 2019, 9:23 PM

#

neither of them have robotic leg~ oh ffs

peak escarp Mar 8, 2019, 9:23 PM

#

Baptiste has boots that help him jump

iron plume Mar 8, 2019, 9:23 PM

#

soldier is just swole

lime ginkgo Mar 8, 2019, 9:23 PM

#

yes they do, look through their skins...robotic legs

peak escarp Mar 8, 2019, 9:23 PM

#

Soldier's healing also isn't a grenade

iron plume Mar 8, 2019, 9:24 PM

#

non-canon skins

peak escarp Mar 8, 2019, 9:24 PM

#

also, most importantly, "reincarnating" someone into another body is impossible

dawn halo Mar 8, 2019, 9:26 PM

#

And me and Doomedperson believed anoymous was high on a drug, Nano Boosts, or the game and though that reincarnation what if during the high.

#

But regardless, let's return to discussion something more important than a stupid what if.

worthy rose Mar 8, 2019, 9:27 PM

#

When do you think Reaper joined Talon?

peak escarp Mar 8, 2019, 9:27 PM

#

after the Swiss HQ explosion

dawn halo Mar 8, 2019, 9:28 PM

#

How did the HQ explode?

#

Did the fight destroy gas lines or a chain reaction set off some bombs?

peak escarp Mar 8, 2019, 9:28 PM

#

we don't know

#

Soldier thinks someone else triggered a bomb while they fought

worthy rose Mar 8, 2019, 9:29 PM

#

I think before the explosion, maybe around the time of Retribution.

dawn halo Mar 8, 2019, 9:29 PM

#

Or perhaps a fire was started from somewhere in the HQ that led to explosions being triggered.

peak escarp Mar 8, 2019, 9:29 PM

#

@worthy rose why do you think that?

dawn halo Mar 8, 2019, 9:30 PM

#

Yeah, Reyes vs Morrison happened at least 2 years after Retribution.

worthy rose Mar 8, 2019, 9:30 PM

#

If he was in Talon, the killing could have easily been an internal power struggle

peak escarp Mar 8, 2019, 9:31 PM

#

but he didn't plan to kill Antonio

#

it was an impulse killing

worthy rose Mar 8, 2019, 9:31 PM

#

"find out" about his main competition in Talon and send a mission.

peak escarp Mar 8, 2019, 9:31 PM

#

he had gone in planning to capture Antonio and take him alive

worthy rose Mar 8, 2019, 9:31 PM

#

That could easily have just been what he said to the team.

#

He isn't an idiot, he knows that Talon is powerful enough to prevent anything from sticking.

peak escarp Mar 8, 2019, 9:32 PM

#

yes, he says that in the comic

#

if they arrest him legally, Talon will just get him out again

#

that's why they plan the illegal kidnapping

worthy rose Mar 8, 2019, 9:33 PM

#

And it had the added bonus of destabilizing Overwatch, the most powerful organization opposing Talon.

dawn halo Mar 8, 2019, 9:34 PM

#

Reyes was with 3 other Blackwatch operatives! They would have not gone with him if they found out the true intentions if it was related to a power struggle within Talon with Reyes was in the organization.

worthy rose Mar 8, 2019, 9:34 PM

#

And they didn't find out.

#

Reyes shot Antonio to prevent him from revealing his identity.

peak escarp Mar 8, 2019, 9:35 PM

#

that seems like a really big stretch

worthy rose Mar 8, 2019, 9:35 PM

#

Really?

peak escarp Mar 8, 2019, 9:35 PM

#

there's nothing hinting that Reyes was working for Talon at that point

#

you theory depends on him consistently lying to everyone close to him

worthy rose Mar 8, 2019, 9:36 PM

#

If he joined Talon, the rest logically follows.

#

The only thing missing is a reason for him to do so, which is also missing in the case where he joins after.

#

I suspect that, in either case, it is linked to Talon's ultimate goal.

peak escarp Mar 8, 2019, 9:38 PM

#

if Reyes had gone in secretly planning to kill Antonio before Antonio could reveal his allegiance, why would Antonio antagonize him so much?

#

Antonio seemed 100% certain that he was safe from harm

worthy rose Mar 8, 2019, 9:38 PM

#

He didn't think he would actually do it.

peak escarp Mar 8, 2019, 9:39 PM

#

if Reyes was already the Reaper, Antonio would not think that

worthy rose Mar 8, 2019, 9:40 PM

#

Antonio is a big leader. If Reyes wasn't quite as highly ranked, Antonio could reasonably expect Reyes to do practically anything but kill him.

dawn halo Mar 8, 2019, 9:40 PM

#

I'm leaving this conversation because it's getting nasty, it would just devolve into a four person argument if Nebulak got involved.

peak escarp Mar 8, 2019, 9:40 PM

#

getting nasty?

#

I'm just pointing out how Doomedperson's theory is too much of a stretch based on what we know

worthy rose Mar 8, 2019, 9:41 PM

#

Especially because he had quite a few soldiers ready to fight. He didn't think that Reyes would be able to escape even if he killed him.

peak escarp Mar 8, 2019, 9:41 PM

#

you're making a lot of assumptions

clever silo Mar 8, 2019, 9:42 PM

#

I think it’s unlikely Reyes was a full member of Talon at the time of Retribution

worthy rose Mar 8, 2019, 9:42 PM

#

Antonio had a bunch of soldiers. He was a leader, so there were Talon's finest. Would you expect a strike team of four to escape your highly trained small army?

clever silo Mar 8, 2019, 9:43 PM

#

Yes.

worthy rose Mar 8, 2019, 9:44 PM

#

Really?

peak escarp Mar 8, 2019, 9:44 PM

#

if they were Blackwatch

clever silo Mar 8, 2019, 9:44 PM

#

I would, considering what a strike team of 6 did in the Omnic Crisis.

dawn halo Mar 8, 2019, 9:44 PM

#

They can, and Reyes was one of those six.

peak escarp Mar 8, 2019, 9:44 PM

#

Antonio didn't expect to be murdered

worthy rose Mar 8, 2019, 9:44 PM

#

Agree.

dawn halo Mar 8, 2019, 9:45 PM

#

Doomedperson, I suggest you step down. It's clear you're stretching why Retribution happened.

worthy rose Mar 8, 2019, 9:45 PM

#

I don't see the stretch.

#

If I make one assumption, the rest logically follows.

peak escarp Mar 8, 2019, 9:46 PM

#

if he didn't expect to be murdered, that means he thought there was nothing he could have said that would provoke Reyes to kill him

#

meaning he believed Reyes to be a morally good person who could not be provoked into killing him

clever silo Mar 8, 2019, 9:47 PM

#

Yeah, but your one assumption is a pretty big assumption.

worthy rose Mar 8, 2019, 9:47 PM

#

After Reyes had been leading blackwatch for that long?

dawn halo Mar 8, 2019, 9:47 PM

#

And assumptions are always false to an extent, especially if they are big.

peak escarp Mar 8, 2019, 9:47 PM

#

because even though Blackwatch is the black-ops division, they're still the good guys

dawn halo Mar 8, 2019, 9:48 PM

#

They just use more immoral methods.

clever silo Mar 8, 2019, 9:48 PM

#

Illegal = \ = immoral

peak escarp Mar 8, 2019, 9:48 PM

#

(and he possibly had intel from a mole that told him Reyes was planning to take him alive)

clever silo Mar 8, 2019, 9:48 PM

#

Ok, if you wanna edit your message, name the immoral methods.

dawn halo Mar 8, 2019, 9:49 PM

#

Possibly including but not limited to: Assassination, Special interrogation techniques, torture, ruthlessly putting people in a concentration camp, and collective punishment.

clever silo Mar 8, 2019, 9:49 PM

#

lol what

worthy rose Mar 8, 2019, 9:50 PM

#

Antonio figured that they wouldn't kill him because they needed information.

clever silo Mar 8, 2019, 9:50 PM

#

Source for concentration camp, torture, and special interrogation techniques?

#

I’ve literally never heard about this

dawn halo Mar 8, 2019, 9:50 PM

#

There are assumptions because we don't know the resources Blackwatch has to do their job.

clever silo Mar 8, 2019, 9:51 PM

#

Ok, so in other words, Blackwatch hasn’t been shown to do anything particularly immoral.

#

Got it.

dawn halo Mar 8, 2019, 9:51 PM

#

But I believe they do have seriously immoral and cruel methods at their disposal.

clever silo Mar 8, 2019, 9:51 PM

#

But we haven’t seen any, and there’s no reason I can think of to assume they would.

peak escarp Mar 8, 2019, 9:51 PM

#

In the final years of Overwatch's existence, a top secret division called "Blackwatch" was revealed. There were stories of assassination, coercion, kidnapping, torture, and worse.

#

https://playoverwatch.com/en-us/news/20130523

Overwatch

Overwatch is Blizzard’s team shooter for PC and consoles. Choose a hero from a diverse roster of soldiers, scientists, adventurers, and oddities, each with their own unique set of abilities. Bend time, defy physics, and unleash an array of extraordinary powers in concert wi...

clever silo Mar 8, 2019, 9:52 PM

#

Ahh, thanks Doc.

peak escarp Mar 8, 2019, 9:52 PM

#

most illegal things are also immoral

clever silo Mar 8, 2019, 9:52 PM

#

I didn’t know about this before.

dawn halo Mar 8, 2019, 9:53 PM

#

And the worse option could mean concentration camps and collective punishment and other actions.

peak escarp Mar 8, 2019, 9:54 PM

#

the fact that Blackwatch has done these sorts of things AND YET Antonio still thought he was safe means that he knows Reyes' character - he knows that when he makes a plan he sticks to it

#

his intel told him Reyes planned to kidnap him

worthy rose Mar 8, 2019, 10:01 PM

#

Or maybe it means that he thought he was protected by his Talon rank, in case Reyes wanted to go off-script.

peak escarp Mar 8, 2019, 10:01 PM

#

I think the animators did such an amazing job that if you watch Gabe's expression during that scene, you can spot the moment when he decides to kill Antonio

worthy rose Mar 8, 2019, 10:02 PM

#

That's one of the main reasons I'm not 100% sure about my theory.

peak escarp Mar 8, 2019, 10:03 PM

#

📎 unknown.png

#

it's hard to spot because the camera is on Antonio right before it, but the way his eyebrows shift says to me that he's made his decision

#

I could write a whole essay on the animation in this cutscene and how subtle it is

#

it's really impressive, considering all of it was key-framed animation (no performance capture)

clever silo Mar 8, 2019, 10:04 PM

#

The comic also shows his feelings really well

sacred hamlet Mar 8, 2019, 10:08 PM

#

Overanalyzing animated scenes and describing them as deep and subtle

#

Where have I've heard this before

#

Definitely not Youtube

#

But probably true KaplanThink 👍

peak escarp Mar 8, 2019, 10:09 PM

#

considering I have a background in animation, I'm pretty sure I know what I'm talking about

fossil isle Mar 8, 2019, 10:09 PM

#

but the question I also have is this: what was Overwatch's purpose of creating a Blackwatch division? Did Blackwatch's mission directive change when Reyes' moral compass began to waver and he became more disillusioned with the noble approach of tackling world issues? Was assassination and coercion even a part of Blackwatch's original mandate and the torture, coercion, assassination became more of something that happened without Overwatch's approval or knowledge? The only mission (at least I know rn) is the Retribution event on Rialto.

sacred hamlet Mar 8, 2019, 10:09 PM

#

@peak escarp Don't have to drop your dick on the table sir, we know you're a Lore Warlord :))

peak escarp Mar 8, 2019, 10:09 PM

#

McCree was recruited directly into Blackwatch, so it was around at least 20 years ago

sacred hamlet Mar 8, 2019, 10:10 PM

#

You know better than 99% of people at least, so that's some merit

peak escarp Mar 8, 2019, 10:10 PM

#

I don't mean that I'm an expert

#

I just know how hard it is to get subtlety like that from the technical side of things

sacred hamlet Mar 8, 2019, 10:12 PM

#

Not false 🙂

frosty shell Mar 8, 2019, 10:46 PM

#

@peak escarp You said Soldier: 76 believes someone else set off the bomb in the HQ

#

Where does he say this?

peak escarp Mar 8, 2019, 10:46 PM

#

in his origin trailer

#

"Overwatch was hit from inside and out" (or something to that effect)

frosty shell Mar 8, 2019, 10:48 PM

#

That's different

#

What he says about the explosion is "Our enemies blew up our headquarters... and me with it."

peak escarp Mar 8, 2019, 10:49 PM

#

yes, I was just double checking the exact wording

#

the public believes the explosion was caused by Jack and Gabe fighting

frosty shell Mar 8, 2019, 10:50 PM

#

It doesn't really imply that the bomb went off during the fight

peak escarp Mar 8, 2019, 10:50 PM

#

if there was a fight

frosty shell Mar 8, 2019, 10:50 PM

#

Reaper could've set off the bomb as far as we know

#

It's also possible Jack might not remember the events leading up to the explosion

peak escarp Mar 8, 2019, 10:52 PM

#

(or it may have been retconned since then, since this is pre-launch)

frosty shell Mar 8, 2019, 10:52 PM

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Maybe

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There's still few 100% retcons - Mei's bio (and possibly Reinhardt's and Winston's) are the only text-based stories which have been retconned that I know of

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The other retcons come from incorrect art

peak escarp Mar 8, 2019, 10:54 PM

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and all of those have been info that was written before launch

frosty shell Mar 8, 2019, 10:54 PM

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yes

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The Soldier origin info does contradict my fanon about what happened at the HQ, though, but that doesn't matter since that was just in my head

peak escarp Mar 8, 2019, 10:56 PM

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I think there was a fight, and Talon used it as an opportunity to blow up the HQ without suspicion

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but that's just my theory

frosty shell Mar 8, 2019, 10:57 PM

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I still like the fanon idea that I came up with that Morrison was getting increasingly paranoid about moles within Overwatch, so Reyes and some of his associates decided to disobey him

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The trouble is that you'd think Reaper would be mad at Talon for wrecking his body, but it's possible Reaper wouldn't know that Talon helped blow up Overwatch

peak escarp Mar 8, 2019, 11:00 PM

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my theory is that Reyes hiding Moira from Jack was the start of their falling out . . . Ana managed to mediate between them, but once she was gone, the tension boiled over

frosty shell Mar 8, 2019, 11:00 PM

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Yes, Moira likely played a role

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In my fanon, Jack believes Moira turned Reyes crazy, while Reaper claims to have always been that way (he was just good at hiding it)

worthy rose Mar 8, 2019, 11:24 PM

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Moira was a talon mole from the start

iron plume Mar 8, 2019, 11:24 PM

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we don't know that

worthy rose Mar 8, 2019, 11:25 PM

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I mean when she drafted for blackwatch

iron plume Mar 8, 2019, 11:25 PM

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I understand

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we don't know that

worthy rose Mar 8, 2019, 11:25 PM

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I think that's why reyes hid moira

iron plume Mar 8, 2019, 11:26 PM

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reyes hid moira because she had a big reputation as someone unethical

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if reyes knew she was Talon, why would he take her in the first place

worthy rose Mar 8, 2019, 11:27 PM

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thing is that reyes didn't knew her association with talon

iron plume Mar 8, 2019, 11:27 PM

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"reyes hid moira because she was talon"

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"but he didn't know she was talon"

worthy rose Mar 8, 2019, 11:29 PM

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the hiding was because you can't just tell your boss that a newly recruited scientist has questionable morals

iron plume Mar 8, 2019, 11:29 PM

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yes

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that doesn't mean she is talon

worthy rose Mar 8, 2019, 11:30 PM

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because it'd be rung a bell at the boss to do a background check

iron plume Mar 8, 2019, 11:31 PM

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I don't disagree with her having notoriously poor ethics

peak escarp Mar 8, 2019, 11:31 PM

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Reyes hid Moira because Overwatch had already shut her down once before

iron plume Mar 8, 2019, 11:31 PM

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that much is in her bio

peak escarp Mar 8, 2019, 11:31 PM

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he knew Jack would never okay him hiring her

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if Moira was already associated with Talon when he hired her, I don't think Reyes knew

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what if Talon approached Moira because she was working with Reyes

limpid agate Mar 8, 2019, 11:48 PM

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Not a bad idea, given her personality

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Easy to sway with promises of funding without ethical quandary

worthy rose Mar 9, 2019, 12:32 AM

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NotLikeSoldier

sage lava Mar 9, 2019, 2:29 AM

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widowok

iron plume Mar 9, 2019, 2:32 AM

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please stop

arctic topaz Mar 9, 2019, 2:57 AM

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lore is good

peak escarp Mar 9, 2019, 4:18 AM

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would it be safe to assume everyone on the OW roster have heard of Overwatch?

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even Junkrat has

worthy rose Mar 9, 2019, 4:23 AM

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Yep

peak escarp Mar 9, 2019, 4:26 AM

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and the gang that was beating up Reinhardt had heard of them, and even knew Rein by name

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I wonder how well known Talon is

hot kite Mar 9, 2019, 4:41 AM

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HI

arctic topaz Mar 9, 2019, 4:46 AM

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hello

dense estuary Mar 9, 2019, 5:04 AM

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OW was very well known for its positive things, Its why the revelation of BW hit the world so hard.

arctic topaz Mar 9, 2019, 5:05 AM

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was blackwatch a part of overwatch?

supple bear Mar 9, 2019, 5:08 AM

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yes

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it was the covert ops division

arctic topaz Mar 9, 2019, 5:09 AM

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but now there completely separated, right?

worthy rose Mar 9, 2019, 5:14 AM

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Both were shut down with the Petras Act, but many Blackwatch members went to Talon for unknown (for now) reasons.

worthy rose Mar 9, 2019, 5:31 AM

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I think there's a wiki

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but McCree was a founder of the Deadlock gang in the southwestern US, until he got busted by Overwatch. Reyes saw that he was pretty good at fighting and offered for him to join Blackwatch instead of going to jail.

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When Overwatch was shut down, he left and has been a sort-of Robin Hood ever since (judging by the Train Hopper comic), until Recall went out and he decided to help by freeing Echo and doing whatever his other business was.

arctic topaz Mar 9, 2019, 5:36 AM

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thats pretty cool

worthy rose Mar 9, 2019, 5:40 AM

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He also participated in the retribution raid on Talon in Rialto and was a scout for the Overwatch mission to take down the Null Sector uprising in King's Row.

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Source?

iron plume Mar 9, 2019, 5:44 AM

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!!shitposting @minor crow

twilit nacelleBOT Mar 9, 2019, 5:44 AM

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@minor crow Shitposting will result in a loss of access.

minor crow Mar 9, 2019, 5:44 AM

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Aw ok I'll stop

peak escarp Mar 9, 2019, 7:11 AM

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I love Brigitte as a character (although her in-game personality is a bit lacking)

iron plume Mar 9, 2019, 7:11 AM

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It's pretty poorly delivered

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unlike, say, moira

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it's not about the flaws
Brigitte is, at least at this point, among the worst realized character in terms of being shown through in-game actions

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"It really makes you think" springs to mind

stark cipher Mar 9, 2019, 7:22 AM

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i for one am just tired that there's no more lore build up to new character releases

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or, not as much as there was

peak escarp Mar 9, 2019, 7:23 AM

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it's different with every hero

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some get lots, others get less, some get none

stark cipher Mar 9, 2019, 7:24 AM

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For the ones that get none though, they need to give them lore

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not just a backstory, you know what i mean?

peak escarp Mar 9, 2019, 7:25 AM

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yeah

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well, the lore is expected to pick up this year with the return of the comics

stark cipher Mar 9, 2019, 7:25 AM

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Hammond was just a name on a screen on Lunar Horizon. He does mech battles in Junkertown. How's he changing the story of the world now that he's in it?

peak escarp Mar 9, 2019, 7:26 AM

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he isn't yet

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maybe he'll seek out Winston and join new Overwatch

stark cipher Mar 9, 2019, 7:27 AM

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I don't remember how long ago it was that i read Blizzard was thinking about adding a campaign/story mode

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but honestly if they did i think it would bring a lot of attention back to Overwatch

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because part of the reason that the lore isn't so abundant right now is because you have to go kind of out of your way to learn it

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a lot of "gamers" nowadays don't even pay attention to a game's story and give all their attention to the gameplay. which is foolish because then you're not getting the full intended experience

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and part of the overwatch experience is being invested in the lore

peak escarp Mar 9, 2019, 7:30 AM

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yeah

stark cipher Mar 9, 2019, 7:32 AM

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the most blizz does in terms of in game lore is the vault event once a year which is really not enough

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I'd like to not have to wait a year to just get a little bit more backstory as to how Gabriel became Reaper, for instance

tawny patio Mar 9, 2019, 8:20 AM

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Hammond felt like an extension on junker lore more than anything to me

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But also not really expanding anything?

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Like...accenting old information if that makes sense?

lapis oracle Mar 9, 2019, 9:03 AM

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Hammond was basically teased in junker lore. The biggest lore drop on hammond was horizon on how they escaped.

timid eagle Mar 9, 2019, 4:02 PM

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I’m thankful that they kept him (mostly) as a hamster, as it was the right call to make his squeaks and chirps translated through his mech.

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Hammond biologically cannot speak, he can’t form words with his mouth even if he tried.

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So, if we ever get another animal-related hero (ex: rescue dog support), at least they can work around it.

peak escarp Mar 9, 2019, 5:12 PM

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it was confirmed that they never dated

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but I think Ashe had an unrequited crush on him

valid shell Mar 9, 2019, 6:14 PM

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@timid eagle Repurposed unmanned Russian Mars rover modeled after a robot dog and named Laika 2.0 when?

regal coyote Mar 9, 2019, 7:12 PM

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@peak escarp BY LORE they never dated

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but by VA itneaction they are told to act as if they did.

peak escarp Mar 9, 2019, 7:12 PM

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. . . what other metric is there?

regal coyote Mar 9, 2019, 7:12 PM

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so yes it is meant to feel like they do

peak escarp Mar 9, 2019, 7:12 PM

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they never dated. end of story.

regal coyote Mar 9, 2019, 7:12 PM

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Yes, they never did

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BUT still you have no power to change the fact that the VA are told to act as if ex lovers.

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so obviously voiceline does give that impression. gg

peak escarp Mar 9, 2019, 7:13 PM

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how they were told to act has nothing to do with the history between the two characters

regal coyote Mar 9, 2019, 7:14 PM

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yes, but ht has huge impact on players who play the game, and never read anything outside the game media

peak escarp Mar 9, 2019, 7:14 PM

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well that's their fault

regal coyote Mar 9, 2019, 7:14 PM

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people who do not read outside material would have little to no way to confirm they never dated

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remember, we know this only cause we read loads of stuff, and got that told to us

peak escarp Mar 9, 2019, 7:15 PM

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Ashe: Too competent?
McCree: Too rich.```

regal coyote Mar 9, 2019, 7:15 PM

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we know he means it

peak escarp Mar 9, 2019, 7:15 PM

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that sounds like they never dated

regal coyote Mar 9, 2019, 7:15 PM

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but normal people may think they are broken up ex

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with a bit of bitterness.

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but yeah we do know, though there is little in game to clear this up at all

peak escarp Mar 9, 2019, 7:16 PM

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I just gave you the in-game example

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"never were my type" isn't something an ex would say

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if people mistake that as banter between two exes then they aren't very good at understanding social interactions

devout sable Mar 9, 2019, 7:33 PM

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@peak escarp never heard that one

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that's pretty cold

peak escarp Mar 9, 2019, 7:35 PM

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https://youtu.be/S0wTEet4kkc?t=69

YouTube

Overwatch Interactions

Overwatch - All Ashe Interactions + Unique Kill Quotes

These are all of Ashe's interactions as well as the unique kill quotes she says upon eliminating a CERTAIN SOMEONE.

▶ Play video

supple bear Mar 9, 2019, 7:54 PM

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I think this has been revealed by correct me if I'm wrong
What's the stuff Roadhog snorts?

peak escarp Mar 9, 2019, 7:54 PM

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Hogdrogen

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it's anti-radiation medication

supple bear Mar 9, 2019, 7:55 PM

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So do all junkers snort that or just roadhog?

peak escarp Mar 9, 2019, 7:55 PM

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seems like just Roadhog, but he gets them from Bruce so there must be other people that use it