Because of obvious IRL reasons.
#lore-discussion
dawn halo
iron plume
wouldn't it be "South Korea, Korea" if it was a region
like the states
dawn halo
I see in the modern OW Earth, North Korea got more modern technology and now was able to replicate MEKA technology, making the situation in the region even more intense.
iron plume
it doesn't really fit the themes of overwatch
dawn halo
Let a man (or woman) theorize.
dire timber
I think North Korea could've easily faced some Overwatch intervention
dawn halo
Slignerd, I agree.
viscid steeple
what do yall think bout reaper?
iron plume
they wouldn't be the same regime if they were bailed out though
dawn halo
Perhaps the Kim's were killed off through a Blackwatch action.
viscid steeple
and the archives event
iron plume
at least not on the same militant scale
dire timber
@viscid steeple Doomfist, Widowmaker, Sombra, Baptiste
dawn halo
Anything could happen.
dire timber
that's gonna be the team
dire timber
we don't know the location, but some speculate Havana, Numbani, or Paris
most likely set 7 years ago
viscid steeple
They NEED to add a new map for archives this year
dire timber
in the same year as Uprising
viscid steeple
either paris or a new map
dawn halo
Perhaps during Overwatch's Golden Age, there was a Second Korean War and it was more destructive than the "First" Korean War. But Overwatch intervened and dealt with the problems involving NK from stealthy actions through Blackwatch or other crap and returned the region to status quo ante bellum territoriality.
viscid steeple
because Archives is one of the last events the player base cares about and if we just have the exact same map that we have had for 3 years nobody will care about archives this year
paris was added recently
iron plume
it won't be the exact same map
viscid steeple
I can understand if they just wanted to release it early
iron plume
Uprising London plays very different from standard KR
viscid steeple
I dont care if they change the numbani skybox
dawn halo
Anujra, most of us care what it means.
iron plume
...which is what paris would also be under that definition
dawn halo
It takes time for Blizzard to create a new map just for one event.
iron plume
they don't make them just for an event, that'd just be a waste of resources
viscid steeple
yeah I would be basically happy because it would add relevance to the map.
they did last year
iron plume
just for the event
no they did not
I don't remember rialto not being a thing after the event was over
iron plume
Why are you explaining "what you meant" even though the initial post was from a different person
viscid steeple
what?
iron plume
anyway to the actual not-stupid point, they might repeat the Rialto structure for this new one
but it's not a guarantee
and if it is a pre-existing map, there's nothing making Paris more likely than any other
viscid steeple
Its a relatively new map with lore connecting to Widowmaker
I dont really see why not
viscid steeple
Because chronologically a next major event would be talon and the kidnapping of widowmaker making her kill her husband
unless there is something in-between
iron plume
Chronologically, so far the archive events have been moving backwards and kidnapping of widowmaker happened after Retribution
plus, talon has at best three playable heroes in the period before her "joining" them
how can it be the mission that took her
viscid steeple
So this year its going to be something before uprising and retribution
iron plume
why
viscid steeple
?
dawn halo
If it continues, the Archives would reach the Omnic Crisis era, and it would have enough playable heroes to do an Archives by the time it comes to it.
viscid steeple
you are the one saying its going backwards
iron plume
and before then, you don't have enough heroes for a talon run
I'm not saying it has to be
but you're using the "chronologically" argument
if that's not what you mean, what is then
valid terrace
they might have a random hero fill the gap and have the lore catch up
iron plume
the lore is not the problem
viscid steeple
a hero so close to the release of baptiste would be unlikely
iron plume
they'd need to accelerate a hero release by three months
valid terrace
like Genji and Moira being on the Blackwatch mission
dawn halo
Let's all assume the chronology of the event comes at random but consistent points.
viscid steeple
well we had little lore about both of those characters
iron plume
and, more to the point, they existed as heroes prior to Retribution
we had a decent lot about Genji
viscid steeple
I guess
iron plume
and Moira was fresh off her release
valid terrace
thats like saying Hammond was always tethered to Winston's craft
you learn it later
iron plume
but we didn't
viscid steeple
tru
iron plume
Moira was introduced as a scientist who had a history in blackwatch
dawn halo
Especially we know that Genji had a key role in dismantling the Shimada clan and Moria was a cause of Reaper's powers.
iron plume
it was in her reveal origin trailer
valid terrace
the lore changes is all im saying
iron plume
and Genji has had a blackwatch skin since Uprising
not in this case
this is a non-argument
we knew Moira, Reaper, Genji and McCree were all in blackwatch long before the event
valid terrace
well Moira being blackwatch was new info to me at the time
viscid steeple
but still we learned more about all of them
dawn halo
Whenever the event happened, we got to see them in actual action.
valid terrace
i just thought she was Talon
viscid steeple
through their connection to blackwatch
valid terrace
yah
viscid steeple
so why are u saying we did not get any new lore for them
valid terrace
obviously
iron plume
since her origin trailer
I'm not saying we didn't
XGN is saying we were only told that they were Blackwatch during the event
and suggests the same happens to talon heroes now
which would be incredibly out of place
and it's not happening
valid terrace
idk Soldier is totally gay now 👌
viscid steeple
yeah
valid terrace
but now we know he always was
iron plume
that's not how that works
valid terrace
kinda is
iron plume
!!shitposting @valid terrace
twilit nacelleBOT
@valid terrace Shitposting will result in a loss of access.
viscid steeple
um?
valid terrace
wym thats an actual argument
viscid steeple
can he not say the word gay?
iron plume
It's not about soldier being gay
worthy rose
There was no evidence either way before the story
valid terrace
true
iron plume
It's about equating a reveal about a character's sexualtiy that we didn't know before to saying "oh this guy was Talon btw"
We might not know much about some heroes' backstories, but we know enough to say they weren't in talon
valid terrace
noone knows if Ashe never worked with talon until they explicitly tell us
viscid steeple
tru
iron plume
Ashe works for her gang
valid terrace
it would be surprising but not unreasonable
viscid steeple
I wonder if lore is able to change? Like how talon offers hanzo a job. what if blizzard like made a lore update where he said okay
valid terrace
gang's take up job requests, especially shady ones
viscid steeple
I guess that would be wack
iron plume
there are retcons but they're minor
dawn halo
Would that ever happen? Because there was a dialogue between Akande and Hanzo.
valid terrace
it could happen is all im saying
viscid steeple
it was an example : l
dawn halo
Where he denied to join, due to their ideals conflicting with his and no benefit for him.
valid terrace
tru
iron plume
There could be a development when something forces him to
But "Hanzo doesn't like talon" wouldn't change
dawn halo
Still, that's Hanzo's stance on joining forces with him right now UNTIL such forces are at work for where he has to do something about it.
viscid steeple
I'm just sayin what if blizzard could like do little retcons every now and then
I dont know if that would be cool or anoying
annoying*
viscid steeple
how was he a retcon?
iron plume
It would be annoying
valid terrace
changes Winston's origin the moment he was introduced
iron plume
because you'd never know where the characters actually stand or what their view is
valid terrace
not majorly but still
iron plume
Development isn't the same thing
dawn halo
What about the D.Va retcon? Where they say she isn't a Starcraft pro gamer before joining MEKA with Dae-hyun.
iron plume
Hanzo joining Talon because something forces his hand or a shady meeting that convinces him would be a development
Hanzo joining Talon because he just goes "hey you know what guys, you okay" is a retcon
The d.va thing is a retcon, but it retcons a thing that was last said fairly long before release
and pre-release lore information is very iffy
dawn halo
I still interpret, until a specific game is said, she is still a Starcraft pro gamer in regards to the D.Va related retcon.
viscid steeple
honestly being a RTS gamer is wack considering she is in a shooter mech
iron plume
like the Museum trailer having zenyatta and lucio in the museum
@dawn halo Tjeu
fucks sake
They've explicitly said it was not starcraft that got her into meka
valid terrace
they retconned Torbjorn's armor packs 😩
viscid steeple
lol
white cobalt
...
valid terrace
lol issa joke
viscid steeple
he does not understand jokes
valid terrace
they also dont have his weird trap thing
dawn halo
Actually, what would Torb's pack's be like lore wise.
iron plume
Maybe make better jokes
valid terrace
no
viscid steeple
I thought it was a good joke
dawn halo
Perhaps it's quick, easy, and effective tools that repair things.
iron plume
Armor pack would just be him doing something to patch up the armor of his comrades
viscid steeple
jeez I just wanna chill and talk about a game we all like tbh
iron plume
Brigitte's e with the same thing
dawn halo
How would healing work within the lore?
valid terrace
him not using armor packs is the most significant event since the Crisis
iron plume
that's the million dollar question isn't it
Mercy's, Moira's, Ana's, Soldier's and possibly Baptiste's work on the same tech
viscid steeple
naw rezzing is
iron plume
which is made by Mercy and includes nanobiotics
valid terrace
patching bullet holes and bruises with --magic-- science
iron plume
likely accelerating the body's healing process or some pseudoscience like that
dawn halo
I see healing lore wise as basic pain negation, except for a few that go beyond, however there is a cap, it can't heal serious injuries.
viscid steeple
magic is just science that we do not understand yet
iron plume
it's genuine healing, not just a painkiller
but it can't bring people back from the dead
rez is not canon
viscid steeple
rlly?
viscid steeple
I allways had this weird theory that mercy rezzed reaper and that is why reaper hates her
iron plume
Mercy had nothing to do with Reaper
dawn halo
@iron plume If healing is going to work lore wise, there has to be a balance between receiving healing and going to the hospital for serious wounds.
iron plume
and Genji wasn't dead, just on the brink
viscid steeple
and is like Ü tell me DoC!
valid terrace
it brings back shields and armor too, so maybe its like some sort of time reversal?
valid terrace
the future is wild
iron plume
you can't mercy back a dva mech
@dawn halo I'd imagine it's difficult to create the compounds or resources for that
valid terrace
but you can heal orisa b
iron plume
but we know Mercy worked at a hospital too
so it's not impossible that the hospital treatment is basically the same thing in some cases
I wouldn't go too deep into this tbh
your theory is possible
valid terrace
yeah its more mechanics with loose explanations
iron plume
what's interesting to me is the other healers
Brigitte can patch people up but that's not what's represented by the game
dawn halo
Still, there has to be a limit to what healing tools can do, to keep downtime and hospitals relevant.
valid terrace
I think Moira's might be the base version of the healing ability
iron plume
the equivalent of her in-game armor pack is just a normal armor pack
white cobalt
I'm just wondering if Baptiste grenade launcher is Mercy's tech or Talon's tech
viscid steeple
that is Michael chu for u
iron plume
and the rally and inspire are literally just her rallying or inspiring people
valid terrace
where she literally saps strength and redistributes it
white cobalt
or custom made for/by him
iron plume
same thing with lucio
valid terrace
true
viscid steeple
zenyatta? his orbs
valid terrace
This lovely beat gives me the fast
viscid steeple
they are very interesting
dawn halo
@white cobalt I have the same theory regarding Baptise's weapon.
iron plume
the aesthetics and his theme suggests it's a similar thing
giving the target a peace of mind
viscid steeple
uhuh
iron plume
but then we get an interaction of mercy
asking how his healing works
so it does at least something physical
even if it's not to the same extent as mercy's
dawn halo
And Lúcio's father worked on sonic technology that would be his son's weapon of choice.
Both tracks used for his Crossfade was in his album, perhaps in lore, he could use his other tracks for much different effects?
white cobalt
@dawn halo My theory is probs Moira having access to Mercy's tech then developing for Talon, but again i think depends on the chronology
iron plume
Vishkar used the speakers as efficient propaganda
which lucio then turned to inspire
maybe it has like
synapse suppression effects or something like that
so it's physical in the sense that it does make you feel better (or worse, in the hands of vishkar)
but not actual healing
dawn halo
Still, could Crossfade be reworked to incorporate the rest of his album?
valid terrace
really the main healers both in game and in lore are Mercy and Moira
everyone else has fakish effects
valid terrace
except Ana who just uses Mercy's heals
iron plume
...is that not healing?
dawn halo
They are, to a lesser extent than Angela and Moria.
iron plume
just because I use someone else's hammer doesn't mean the nail isn't in
if you're talking about their abilities outside of their equipment, yes
but they do have actual healing effects when using their weapons
valid terrace
yeah but analysing hers when it isnt the root source is less effective
dawn halo
Primary healers: Angela, Baptise, and Brigitte
Secondary healers: Ana and Moria
Tertiary healers: Lúcio and Soldier: 76
dawn halo
I'm fixing it up.
iron plume
Confirmed medical skills go Mercy > Baptiste > Brigitte
valid terrace
I'd guess Mercy charges you on a cellular level which could also explain her damage boost and resurrection shortly after death
iron plume
Confirmed equipment that does physical healing is Mercy, Moira, Ana, Soldier
valid terrace
Roadhog?
dawn halo
In lore, his Take a Breather isn't healing.
iron plume
it's not confirmed what it actually does
valid terrace
and Reaper too?
iron plume
I'm not counting self heal
valid terrace
oh
dawn halo
We are only counting actual people who can heal others.
valid terrace
kk i missed that
iron plume
Although reaper's status on that is uncertain
we know he does damage that leads to necrosis
but not if he actually "adds" that to himself
valid terrace
It's likely related to Moira's ability
iron plume
the lore behind his healing is that he's constantly deteriorating and regenerating
dawn halo
Primary healers are those who are actually trained to do their job as medics. Secondary healers are those with great healing but are not capable of the job as a medic, and tertiary are those with healing capability but aren't made to do such.
iron plume
but that only talks about his own cells
dawn halo
That's what the P, S, and T mean.
iron plume
Brigitte isn't a trained medic, she's learned to do it traveling with rein
valid terrace
thx
iron plume
and we don't know if Lucio has healing capacity
dawn halo
Still, she could be an exception, because that's field experience.
valid terrace
it's mostly armor based cause she's practiced more in patching up the old hammer bro
dawn halo
It's up to debate, now I'm out.
iron plume
we know she can treat wounds too
valid terrace
yup
iron plume
it's been in her origin trailer
iron plume
there's two separate classifications
Healing equipment:
Confirmed – Mercy, Moira, Ana, Soldier
Likely – Baptiste
In-game healing represents something else: Zenyatta, Lucio, Brigitte
valid terrace
Symmetra
iron plume
Medical skills
Doctor: Mercy
Trained medic: Baptiste
Self-learned medic: Brigitte
???: Zenyatta
valid terrace
back when she was supprt lol
iron plume
she never had healing even when she was support
valid terrace
Ana has basic training
wicked pebble
Zen uses the power of persuasion to convince you you’re ok
valid terrace
experiences tranquility
iron plume
Ana can tie up a wound and knock you out for two days with tea
I wouldn't call that medical training
ocean wadi
if it heals its healing equipment
iron plume
She claims she doesn't have any herself
wicked pebble
I’m pretty sure the lore says his orbs do this whisper thing. Encouragement and pointing out your flaws depending on which orb you get
iron plume
that's a fan theory
valid terrace
She said she wasn't as good as Angela implying she was a certified field medic
wicked pebble
Oh my bad
ocean wadi
it heals
iron plume
a not-unreasonable one but still a fan theory
ocean wadi
why r we calling mercy angela
valid terrace
its her name?
ocean wadi
so soldier 76
iron plume
valid shell
What about him?
iron plume
she's terrible at it
valid terrace
Jackie boo
iron plume
but you could count it if you'd like I guess
valid shell
Correct, his name is Jack.
iron plume
we're calling her Angela because that's what Ana calls her in Bastet, which is what we're talking about
valid terrace
He only goes by Soldier 76 to people who don't already know him
iron plume
If Ana has any medical training, it seems on the basic level they give to soldiers/agents
valid terrace
yeah
iron plume
We'd have to count the other military people up for that too
ocean wadi
roadhog has healing equipment
valid terrace
true'
valid shell
@ocean wadi It's only healing as a game abstraction. It's likely closer to an asthma puffer.
iron plume
the difference is their skills are unconfirmed and Ana's is confirmed to be terrible
ocean wadi
it heals tho
ocean wadi
and thats the only thing we know about it
valid terrace
he just smells tuna and he is rejuvenated
valid shell
We don't know that it actually heals physical trauma canonically.
iron plume
which is why I didn't put it
I wouldn't argue against it if you would, but I don't think it should be
valid terrace
yeah we really just don't know enough about it
well im gonna go stop my diamond decay catch ya later dudes
teal wing
ye uh-huh, sure, definitely
viscid steeple
NEED ZARYA LORE
viscid steeple
we already know a bunch bout zenyatta and there is rlly not much more to learn
worthy rose
What do we know about zenyatta besides that he is an omnic monk and teacher of genji
We know Zarya's backstory, her motivations, and her current goals
viscid steeple
what do we not know about zenyatta?
worthy rose
How long has he had sentience, what was his journey on enlightenment like, where in the world did he originate from, how did he find genji, how long has it been since he left the nepal monestary if he left and returned at all, what will his role be in Overwatch, What is "the iris", how does he float and why is he the only omnic with legs to do so that we see
a bunch others but that's a fraction
Literally everything but "omnic monk that taught genji"
valid shell
@viscid steeple Homie Zenyatta doesn't even exist outside gameplay aside from one (1) comic panel.
He has the least content of any hero.
What are you on about.
worthy rose
I'm not sure Lucio even exists outside the game
he does but as a world wide music maker and celebrity
you see his icon pop up a lot throughout the overwatch universe
Like, seen outside the game
like the DVA cinimatic
Ah.
valid shell
Zenyatta could literally be Genji's hallucination and nothing would change.
clever silo
No.
worthy rose
Yep, pretty much
clever silo
It’d bring into question if “Omnic Energies” are real or not
worthy rose
So?
what
wtf is "omnic energies"
Doesn't necessarily even exist, the orbs are non-canon
clever silo
Let me find it, the way that’s Zenyatta’s harmony and Discord orbs were described
worthy rose
gameplay doesn't equal lore my friend, sorry.
clever silo
No Doomed, Omnic Energies were the canon reason given
worthy rose
No.
i'm fairly sure that zenyatta would very likely be a non combatant
They explicitly stated that there is no magic.
valid shell
'Omnic Energies' doesn't mean magic.
worthy rose
Unless the omnics uncovered a new fundamental force, you're out of luck.
valid shell
It could just be an alternative sci-fi energy source.
fringe blade
I mean, eh. Some things borderline on the edge between 'magic' and 'science'.
worthy rose
have we ever gotten a canon answer about what hanzo and genji's dragons are?
granite gazelle
Bruh sound effect #2
valid shell
'Photon Projection' is also made-up nonsense.
But nobody calls it magic.
@worthy rose Nope.
worthy rose
Yes, but it isn't magic.
valid shell
Then Omnic Energies isn't either, unless said otherwise.
fringe blade
@worthy rose Aren't Hanzo and Genji's dragons magic?
valid shell
Stop.
worthy rose
No.
fringe blade
Then what are they?
valid shell
We don't know.
clever silo
Wasn’t specified
worthy rose
Devs said no magic
clever silo
But Omnic Energies was specified
worthy rose
Where? Do you have a source?
valid shell
That's the running theory.
worthy rose
That or some kind of nanotech are the leading theories.
fringe blade
Is the whole thing about 'Only a Shimada can control a dragon' just a legend/myth?
fringe blade
Because I dont see how something like hardlight can be hereditary.
valid shell
He might genuinely believe it's an anime bloodline technique.
worthy rose
Genetic markers?
valid shell
Or it might require their specific tattoos to activate.
fringe blade
Anyone can get a tattoo, right?
clever silo
Finding the source right now
worthy rose
They have to be special tattoos
valid shell
I mean, sure. Anybody can also write a signature.
fringe blade
Eh, I dont buy that to be honest. I just feel like its a bit of stretch, but its the best theory we got so far.
valid shell
Yup.
Remember, Hanzo's Storm Bow is an heirloom, and Genji doesn't let anybody touch his ryū ichimonji.
clever silo
Bit hard to read, this is from the visual source book
fringe blade
Didn't Chu say that they were 'spirit dragons' at some point?
valid shell
So it could be as simple as weapon + tattoo = dragons.
clever silo
Oh I can’t send pictures in here, I’ll DM it doom
valid shell
@fringe blade Yes, they're called Spirit Dragons.
fringe blade
So it has something to do with 'spirit'. Hmm
valid shell
Like how Widowmaker's gun is called Widow's Kiss, but isn't an actual kiss.
valid shell
Names are names.
worthy rose
Link then?
clever silo
Sent in DM
valid shell
Because it sounds dope?
worthy rose
That literally says "built to channel omnic energy"
fringe blade
Also, are Symmetra's turrets made up of hardlight or are they actual turrets?
valid shell
You're getting into some of the vaguest territory. XD
worthy rose
Easy to say that it's just from an omnic
fringe blade
Me or Doomed?
valid shell
Hard-Light is so poorly defined.
fringe blade
Oh.
I mean, it can be destroyed.
Symmetra's Orb can't be.
Maybe just a different form of Hardlight?
valid shell
Like. Sometimes it's harmful photon energy. Other times it's translucent holographic blue material. Other times it's actual tangible white metal.
Apparently it's all Hard-Light.
clever silo
I think it’s reasonable to accept it’s all hard light, but it functions the way it does for gameplay purposes.
fringe blade
But then how far can the term hardlight be stretched?
It feels quite underused if it as powerful as it is made to be.
clever silo
Hmm
fringe blade
Doesn't Vishkar have like a Hard-Light city of sorts?
fringe blade
The guy who is a spy for Talon, is he still working for both Vishkar and Talon?
Sanjay or something like that
valid shell
Yes.
And we don't know if he's a spy.
Vishkar might be intentionally aligned with Talon as a whole.
fringe blade
True.
This guy seems quite powerful, to be honest
He has connections in LumeriCo, he is part of Vishkar (which means he knows the 'secret' of hard-light) and he is a board member for Talon.
valid shell
We don't know if Vishkar has a monopoly on Hard-Light.
Depending on the definition, it might be a widely-used technology, if things like Crusader shields or OR-Series barriers are considered Hard-Light.
fringe blade
Yea.
Again, stretching the definition of Hard-Light.
Since we have no clue what it actually is.
valid shell
It might just be difficult to use.
broken rune
isn't it just solidified light
valid shell
Easy in simple, pre-fabricated shapes like shields, but difficult to be used fluidly, which is what makes Symmetra significant.
@broken rune Scroll up a bit.
broken rune
ok
fringe blade
Really off-topic, but if Max was added to the game, imagine the feud between him and Zenyatta.
rancid hare
Does Widow only use the voice line "I think we should start seeing other people" when she kills Pharah? I only noticed it for the first time today.
valid shell
@rancid hare It can be on any kill.
peak escarp
why would there be a feud between Max and Zenyatta?
peak escarp
no shitposting
viscid steeple
so it was a serious question when u asked about Max and Zenyatta
I dont think they have ever even met
peak escarp
Renosant suggested they would feud
if Max was added to the game
I wanted to know why they thought that would be the case
(it's safe to assume any questions asked in this channel are serious questions)
I made my own ranking of the OW healers
worthy rose
on what metric?
peak escarp
Legally certified to practice medicine: Mercy
Trained combat medic: Mercy, Baptiste
Trained in first aid: Ana, Brigitte, Soldier
Not a trained healer: Lucio, Moira, Zenyatta
worthy rose
yep
viscid steeple
u sure zenyatta aint trained?
I joined the shambali religion
must have tought him something
peak escarp
maybe
viscid steeple
rip my spelling
peak escarp
but it is probably closer to therapy or meditation than actual medicine
viscid steeple
tru
worthy rose
that's a maybe; but we don't know the inner workings of religious group other than they promote harmony between omnics and humans. Nothing else we really know about them so until confirmed otherwise, they're going to be treated as not medically trained.
fossil isle
You forgot Sombra: training in medical contraband
fossil isle
Ehehhe i know but i was thinking of a way her heal pack hacking could translate to in-game universe lore haha
limpid agate
The only time we have ever seen heal packs was Baptiste Origins
There is nothing to suggest there are health pack generators scattered throughout the world, or that Sombra can hack them into producing more faster if they exist
dense estuary
safe to assume heal packs are there because its an FPS
peak escarp
and since it came up earlier, Roadhog's canisters are more like anti radiation medication
limpid agate
!!wiki Hogdrogen
twilit nacelleBOT
For more information about the game, please refer to the wiki: https://overwatch.gamepedia.com/Hogdrogen
peak escarp
think Radaway or something like that
hm, my first instinct is to think health pack = high tech IV bag crossed with an EpiPen
but they're a little large for that
ocean wadi
how do we know
peak escarp
know what?
I was just guessing about the health packs
I guess I can't get answers from anyone tonight
teal roost
Helllllo !!!!
valid shell
@teal roost Yo.
worthy rose
Need any lore questions answered?
teal roost
sigh im placing low very 😩
peak escarp
this isn't the place to discuss placements
you want #general-discussion or #overwatch-serious
wraith zealot
@peak escarp isnt moira a doctor aswell?
wraith zealot
ı would still put her at second degree rather than not trained
she know about human body enough to alter it ı think she would know what to do when its injured
peak escarp
knowing anatomy and genetics doesn't really help in diagnosing diseases and healing injuries
wraith zealot
ı cant say much about genetics helping healing injuries or diagnosing (could be used in other medical studies tho) anatomy is some what important
if u look at the anatomy in depth it is one of the major topics a doctor must know to be able to found dangers of the injury
peak escarp
I still wouldn't trust her to treat my injuries (even if I wasn't afraid I'd become her latest test subject)
wraith zealot
ı would trust her more than brig
after all what we hve seen brig do is only bandages
peak escarp
have we ever seen Moira heal in the lore?
wraith zealot
dont think we have seen her healing ability yet
peak escarp
knowing the parts of the body doesn't make her a healer
wraith zealot
knowing the parts of the body makes her atleast understand the danger of my injury
anyone can bandage
without first aid
peak escarp
we've seen Brigitte and Ana do more healing than Moira
lean prawn
she probably knows a bit about cellular degeneration and regeneration because of the whacky shit she did to reaper
peak escarp
that still doesn't make her a medical doctor
hot sleet
ikr
wraith zealot
ı still think thats put her above the ability of using bandage
wraith zealot
ı kid can put a bandaid without taking first aid a. ı knew ı had to wrap a wound when ı was 10 maybe not how to wrap it perfectly but ı knew ı had to cover it
it doesnt take a genius to know first aid
wraith zealot
but it take to be really smart to alter human bodies genetical levels and make something out of it which also requires lot of knowledge in anatomical and genetical levels of the body
geneticist doesnt just go trial and error
peak escarp
that still doesn't make her a doctor
wraith zealot
she has to know what is what
and where it connects
ım not saying she is ziegler degree six
peak escarp
being licensed to practice medicine requires a medical degree, which Moira does not have
she is also not a trained combat medic
and we have not seen her do any healing in the lore
wraith zealot
ı give up
peak escarp
therefore I conclude that she is not a trained healer
wraith zealot
its your list
peak escarp
an epidemiologist would have just as much skill as Moira at setting a broken bone or sewing stitches
lean prawn
i hope moira's in game healing is canon though
desert yacht
why was moira brought on the retribution mission then
regal coyote
i would say moira probably have skils to fix stuff but not in the capacity of a medic or doctor
maybe she can do genetic and/or biotic manipulation, but that is a different thing
she she did fix gabe's problem.
desert yacht
it's canon that moira was on the retribution mission
regal coyote
but she probably do not do well fixing normal battle injury
desert yacht
but why would they bring her if she couldnt heal
regal coyote
though the biotic she has may be able to do some accelerated regeneration
unfortunately in the retribution mission we only see her kill shit with the biotic not heal.
but i think hse ability to heal is more like accelerating healing
desert yacht
so if her biotic killing powers are canon then why not her heals?
dire timber
@viscid steeple jesus christ, no, you can't just slap "they were in Talon btw" on random characters
there are no non-Talon characters currently in the roster for whom this would work
worthy rose
I think the idea of medically trained vs. healing power is causing the problem here.
Moira can blast magic pee at something and it will heal. Brigitte doesn't have the magic pee, but she almost certainly has more medical training.
dire timber
I mean
Moira did serve as Blackwatch's combat medic
and biotics only accelerate regeneration a bit
you still gotta patch the wounds and whatnot
iron plume
it’s almost like I put it in two separate lists earlier for a reason
there’s your healing equipment and there’s your medical skill
And for the latter I’d put Brig above Ana
fossil isle
im not sure in-game abilities translate clearly to their universe. Also how I don't understand how Winston can take all those shotgun shots from reaper without getting wounded but ok. It's not like Reyes to shoot ONLY at the armor and for Winston to be fully covered.
In Moira's case, I think Blackwatch trained her in medic skills. Blackwatch as still part of Overwatch and they were some of the greatest heroes of their era so it's not unlikely for her to receive battlefield medical training. Her biotic spray could be nanites that latch on to wounds to close them up or aid in healing. Im not sure how her tech applies in their universe "real-life". It's not like she can shoot orbs into thin air with the same properties as a bouncing ball either.
It's not like Lucio has medical training either. He's a DJ. His music uplifts the spirits of people around him to "give them life" (abstract).
peak escarp
Moira uses biotic equipment that accelerates healing (or however it works), but when it comes to actual hands-on healing, she wouldn't be very helpful
she was the Blackwatch team's "medic" because she understood how the tech worked
fossil isle
^^i can get behind that
peak escarp
compared to someone like Brigitte, who we have seen using first aid to help patch up Reinhardt's wounds (probably self taught), and Ana, who knows how to do field dressing but isn't very good at it
regal coyote
actually come to think of it the blackwatch team dont need much serious healing
We can assume moira would do some prebuff accelerated healing on the team.
Moira probably got some upgrades on herself to start with, probably more than her arm.
Gabe still has healing factor of sorts like 76.
Ganji is cyborg and deflect bullets like a pro.
so it is msotly mccree really.
but in lore he is fast and sneaky too
also we dont know how many high ranking agent is in blackwatch
people gabe can trust
dire timber
@peak escarp I do think Moira would know the basics of first aid still
but it's true that she'd mostly rely on bionics
regal coyote
well from what we see talon runs at least like a military organization if not more.
Seems to be willing to invest in the wellbeing and skills of the members too
so most likely there will be training sections on things like first aid for all members.
as well as things like basic weaponary training and what not.
so yeah moira would probably know it.
as for pre talon(official) moira
i think overwatch / blackwatch would offer things like basic first aid training on all field agents
peak escarp
so what you're saying is I should drop the "first aid" category because everyone with military experience should be assumed to have first aid training
I made my list based on what we've seen/been told - anything else is outside the scope of my list
iron plume
I think brig should still have a note in that
since she's practiced in first aid, not just trained at some point
regal coyote
I would say by practical reason brig probably is effectively a field medic by skills
by license maybe not
but it is common in nonstandard situations people reach levels of skills without proper papers to support it
fossil isle
also remember that game skills are an abstraction of what they do "in real overwatch life"
Mercy: trained doctor + medical researcher. She developed her Valkyrie response suit + her biotic staff to transfer healing agents into bodies --> manifested as a healing stream
Lucio: DJ and musician. Uses sonic tech stolen from Vishkar. not a medical professional. He "gives life" through his music --> manifested as AoE healing
Zenyatta; he's an omnic monk with no medical training (maybe holistic healing techniques): Orb of harmony meant to aid in meditation and giving vitality (kind of like those ion negating bracelets and charms or salt rocks health benefits)
Moira: gifted and controversial geneticist + former Blackwatch agent and tech developer: she probably used genetics to alter some biotics that Mercy developed and turned them to tech that's easily accessible for combat and allow her to both attacc an protecc. Manifests in pee and biotic grasp
Brig: engineer, mechanic, armorer, blacksmith + first aid: probably learned how to stitch and patch up wounds better than most people that learn first aid having to do it for her father and Rein A LOT. her "healing" is supposed to be just her repairing armor or equipment of allies manifests in-game by adding to their life points by protecting them better after being damaged. Tis why armor is added if health is full
Ana: sniper + using the biotic rifle Torb developed: pretty straightforward. Biotic rifle is in-universe canon too. Her heal nade probably acts on the same principle. She can throw it at allies that releases nanobiotics around them to attach to them to heal wounds or whatever. She prolly had a modified version for enemies to release assault nanos
it might be too inconvenient to set down and open first aid kits or manually patch up wounds when playing in game
stable yacht
soldier 76 is actually my dad and i know everything about his history
peak escarp
wrong
stable yacht
damn
peak escarp
try again
stable yacht
greg
peak escarp
Twitter
hollow vortex
Michal Chu is wrong Jack's middle name is Bobifer thanks for coming to my ted talk
iron plume
!!shitposting @hollow vortex
twilit nacelleBOT
@hollow vortex Shitposting will result in a loss of access.
hollow vortex
Oh my god
worn solar
Jack Francis Morrison
hollow vortex
I know. I was making a joke
hollow vortex
Alright
tawny patio
It is of note
First aid certification or self teaching are rather simple
Certification takes like five hours + a hundred dollars to attend the training sessions, and the internet is full of stuff
It wouldn't surprise me if a lot more people than just healers are first aid trained
Field healing is also rather common knowledge within the military, which would imply at least some of the heroes would be versed in that as well....even though that's heavily unreliable 
peak escarp
I don't want to assume or make guesses at who might be trained in first aid
I'm just going off what has been shown
limpid agate
Mercy is a doctor.
Baptiste, Mercy, and Moira are combat medics.
Ana and Brigitte have patched people up after combat.
Lucio and Zenyatta have done nothing remotely medical
Or anything at all
iron plume
oof
floral nymph
lucio is great
loud nexus
wow thats cool
wise plover
Lucio uses music to restore you
Which is an actual thing
Zenyatta, though, I dont know.
worthy rose
Music does not have any proven healing power. It's probably representative of music's ability to inspire people.
iron plume
it is
his story is him inspiring people
there might be some physical effect to it, like rejuvenating people
since the vishkar tech is supposed to suppress them, and I doubt it was just regular old propaganda
worthy rose
The orbs are confirmed non-canon
lime rose
oh
worthy rose
We don't know what transcendence is, if it is canon
lime rose
what if his brain does it
worthy rose
How?
lime rose
like mind control
worthy rose
He'd still need some kind of emitter for whatever that is
iron plume
...even if he had mind control, how would he heal with it
worthy rose
My best guess is that Zen calls in "air support" from the Iris
iron plume
that's putting aside the fact that he doesn't have mind control
worthy rose
Whatever that does
lime rose
via his orbs
iron plume
no
worthy rose
Genji doesn't have any abilities fo that kind
iron plume
apprentice
lime rose
could insperer you
iron plume
genji has found inner peace because of zenyatta's teachings
worthy rose
Just got some mental health help
iron plume
he obviously does inspire people
lime rose
srry about my spelling
iron plume
it doesn't mean he heals them with it
lime rose
like lucio
iron plume
yes
and brig's rally/inspire
lime rose
i never heard it even tho i main him
peak escarp
maybe Mercy just doesn't understand psychiatry
pastel steppe
Mercy: Zenyatta, I must admit, I do not understand how your healing works.
Zenyatta: And I do not understand much of how you heal, Dr. Ziegler. I suppose we must all take some things on faith.
iron plume
the spammed message I presume
pastel steppe
Moira: I must know how your technology functions.
Zenyatta: Existence is mysterious, isn't it?
iron plume
Moira's interaction was first
and people assumed it was just about being an advanced omnic
ashen kayak
poor berry
iron plume
but Mercy does bring up healing
iron plume
the phrasing doesn't sound like it's psychological
worthy rose
sobasicallyimmonkey
ashen kayak
im a monkey
drowsy heron
That's hot
peak escarp
!!shitposting
twilit nacelleBOT
Shitposting will result in a loss of access.
loud harness
I love this
worthy rose
Basically don't say random things here or you get the boot.
sacred hamlet
This place has really gone places over the course of 3 days.
Archives cannot come any sooner. :))
sacred hamlet
For sore.
worthy rose
Okay, anyone here think the "Solider is gay" thing was forced? After two years a non lore game says something about a characters sexuality..
sacred hamlet
Who's Solider.
The only entity I know in OW is Hammond
And I shall now discuss about his whereabouts.
sacred hamlet
calculating probably still in Australia 'cause Blizzard's probably never dedicating a Comic to him. :((
peak escarp
worthy rose
I thought that was his kid lmao
sacred hamlet
Two years ago most people would logically assert him as his friend.
But oh boy how times have changed.
sacred hamlet
Still kind of weird how they decided to make Soldier the 2nd gay character from the roster.
But I guess Blizzard does what Blizzard wants, so... 🤷
worthy rose
but all the SJWs are like, "SOlDiEr iS gaY anD iF yoU dIsaGreE yOu aRe sTraighT mAle sCum."
sacred hamlet
Yeah I'll be honest, SJWs virtual communities kind of scare me.
What they want is great and obviously doable.
worthy rose
6 years from now: Trans Mccree. Hinted by Ashe being in the game.
sacred hamlet
But what really bothered me when checking the Forum back then were the daily "Representation Threads"
Those people are really really persistent.
peak escarp
those aren't feminists
supple bear
An odd lore discussion up in here
worthy rose
femmi-nazi
peak escarp
also no
valid shell
#lore-discussion ain't the place for your political hangups.
Take it to #general-discussion please.
edgy gorge
OK, now that this place is normal again.
peak escarp
yes? did you have something to talk about?
worthy rose
Is Zen's Transcendence canon and how does it work if so?
I have a couple guesses but they're pretty much just that, so I was looking for someone to theorize with.
peak escarp
we haven't seen it in the lore, so who knows
peak escarp
I'm leaning towards not canon
worthy rose
Actually, I was thinking it might be. It would be some actual power of the Iris besides just existing and maybe locking sombra out.
I don't think the omnics would follow a religion without at least something non-mundane happening.
worn solar
I’m pretty sure people would have also called you-know-what forced if it was revealed early on
sacred hamlet
Nothing wrong about something happening 6 months after release
something something kinda weird happening after 2 years and a half
Great difference here
worn solar
You have to remember that Blizzard has 30+ different heroes’ stories to write about
If Soldier’s lore was a book, it’d probably be around the halfway point
regal coyote
nope
i think the story of most hero has not started yet
it is still the "background story" part
if you think about it, disregarding the background of 76 (which is not even done yet) present day 76 did dorado smalltime stuff, and did a whole months long mission in egypt, now leaving, that is all
same goes with ana.
fine, they rediscover gabe/reaper. but yeah
Wiston/tracer did a few missions, and the recall thing and the assassination thing etc, so they are the most active present day.
rein/brig have a few adventurs and a dragon gang beat up, then goes back to pay tributee and join ow.
torb... pick up a bastion unit.
basically these are the most active ones, other than the talon trio + doomie which arguably did most missions in recent time
Oh fine, genji did some personal thing most of the time, would say the same about jessie boy also, though he probably do vigilante things alone the way,a dn accidently saved a train
basically, i would say there are LOTS of things unreviewed in the past, and even more on the current timeline.
basically it is slow.
ans srsly, characters with an origin story at least benefit from the framework
I do think some of the non main casts character should get an origin story
i mean, think about characters like zen or such would have benefit from these
character where blizz may not feel liek putting an animated short focus on
granted zen is hard, since the VA is not the super active into things type
supple bear
Lucio
supple bear
OK ILL PUT GENJI AT 2nd after lucio
wanton flower
ALRIGHTY
so this new character
he's like a stronger version of lucio
so if lucio was in the army, it would be him
supple bear
yeah, im a tank main in comp cuz no one wants to play tank
wanton flower
same here
worthy rose
I had to wait a few minutes to type. So yes i agree I'm a Rein main in comp
supple bear
what platforms do yalls play on?
worthy rose
Xbox
wanton flower
ps4
supple bear
im on xbox
worthy rose
cool
regal coyote
ggez.
worthy rose
whats your gamer tag?
regal coyote
please this is lore, so please get back to your farmland
Also I wish ||null sector toasters|| are playable, and we get a hero out of it
would benefit from a truly evil character, and making it an omnic means no one will get mad
worthy rose
ok
regal coyote
<@&397922982632226816>
worthy rose
Son of One Man is mine
terse oak
@worthy rose @supple bear Do this in a different channel please
Don't clog up lore with your discussion
supple bear
k sry
worthy rose
sry
wanton flower
sorry
desert arch
And for the sake of my sanity use the Modmail next time unless it is urgent @regal coyote
regal coyote
okie :3
supple bear
yes he is
not sure if this lore related, but do you guys think blizzard with give us a baptiste skin with the killmonger looking hair?
not sure what that hair styles called, feel free to correct me
worthy rose
So are the supposed brigitte rework talks true?
tepid mulch
i hope we get a young baptiste skin
(when he worked for talon)
worthy rose
Baptistes hair looks like red vines, so I'd love to see a young skin.
dire timber
@supple bear well, we're bound to get a Talon Baptiste skin
you can see it in his origin short
tepid mulch
a young baptiste skin would make sense for archives too
supple bear
Yeah archives would be the perfect time to drop that
tepid mulch
and if not archives then the anniversary event
hoary nebula
I dont think there will be a talon skin for Baptiste because he left remeber
rememder*
if i could spell i would
lapis oracle
hoary nebula
No he got a black-watch skin not talon.
iron plume
Because McCree was never in Talon
Baptiste was
Archives skins are (largely) about the heroes' past
Moira and McCree aren't blackwatch now, Mercy isn't overwatch
regal coyote
@dire timber unlikely the one in the origin story
most likely a variant to show more of his head, and back gear
also the pirates of carrabian coalition skin would be lovely.
the one with lil bags of healing potion on him
dire timber
@hoary nebula er, he was in Talon nonetheless?
and there's likely going to be an Talon Archives mission that involves him?
that's like saying that Reaper shouldn't have his Blackwatch skin because he left Overwatch
lol
regal coyote
granted, for talon people there is a set of masquade skin we are waiting for
tepid mulch
for an archives mission we could get something similar to last years event but with Baptiste, Doomfist, Sombra, and one other person
dire timber
Widowmaker
peak escarp
why didn't anyone complain that McCree being revealed as a founder of Deadlock was "forced"?
up till then we only knew him as a gang member, not a leader and certainly not a founder
(answer: people only complain about things being forced when it's something they don't like)
supple bear
Yeah I hope the archives mission is a talon mission
tepid mulch
^^^^^^
peak escarp
my point exactly
dire timber
@peak escarp was anyone talking about anything being forced?
peak escarp
it was mentioned earlier
I was scrolled up and didn't realize it
it's 3 years into Overwatch and we don't know 100% of every character's lore - even for Orisa, there's more they could tell us
I don't think we'll ever know everything
clever silo
If people consider the way McCree was revealed as a founder of Deadlock Gang to be forced, I’m genuinely curious how they think they could’ve done it and had it not be “forced”
limpid agate
The "forced" idea comes from the fact that he joined Overwatch when he was a teenager
Meaning is he were to be a founder
He would have to be even younger
He was already Blackwatch at age ~17
Meaning to found the gang that needed Overwatch intervention... He would have had to do it when he was 16 or younger
peak escarp
this was already known before it was revealed that he was a founder
limpid agate
No matter what you would feel its a rushed history with a too young renegade
icy ether
but in McCree's Situation its not forced
limpid agate
But it is worth noting there are many powerful people and leaders who were young
Alexander, Tokugawa, Jeanne D'Arc, Augustus
icy ether
I feel like, Solider was more forced onto the gay community (me being in that community lol)
but McCree was always a leader for me 😛
even if he was a gang member
icy ether
true true,
but it makes sense tho
why else would gabe say HEY calm your gang or you go to prison XD
so McCree said screw it, and joined blackwatch to "Help"
lol
then it turns out gabe didn't care about Morals, and McCree hated his hypocrisy
peak escarp
up until he blasted Antonio in the face, Gabe was the type to make plans, not rush in impulsively
icy ether
true, lol now gabe as Reaper he does anything he wants lol
but still Stalks Vincent for Morrison..?
still seems weird to me lol
unless Gabe is planning to kill Vincent to spark anger into Morrison. (Star Wars Refrence ig lol)
peak escarp
stalks Vincent?
icy ether
Yeah
The couple reaper was stalking in the Christmas comic (the one Tracer was gay in) was Vincent and his new Wife [After Soldier 76 supposedly lol]
icy ether
Fudge.
peak escarp
Vincent is gay
icy ether
but that wouldn't make any sense
icy ether
because also in the baset comic Morrison said that Vincent had a wife and kid I believe
peak escarp
his ex with their new spouse, or his child and their spouse and his grandchild
iron plume
Ana was talking about Reaper having a family
peak escarp
icy ether
Yeah he got married
icy ether
Still confuses me then XD
iron plume
Aside from themselves, Ana and Jack talk about two relationships in Bastet
Vincent and Reyes
white cobalt
Gay marriage is a thing, dunno what is confusing
iron plume
Vincent has a family and Reyes had one
white cobalt
What?
icy ether
@white cobalt Ik its a thing I'm Bi lol
iron plume
Those two have nothing to do with each other
icy ether
Still tho why not just marry Morrison ?
iron plume
because he went off to war
white cobalt
Because Morrison had another duties
peak escarp
he didn't feel like he could give Vincent the life he deserved
iron plume
^
limpid agate
No time for family
icy ether
Ah alright, so we still might not know the family Gabe stalked since the family is till unconfirmed?
regal coyote
@limpid agate actually we DO NOT KNOW vincent is gay
iron plume
yes we do
regal coyote
we only know vincent is at least interested in males
peak escarp
"Both identify as gay"
lean prawn
chu specified
peak escarp
he literally says it right there
regal coyote
whatever it is, vincent can still get married, and have adopted or whatever offsprings
iron plume
...yes
peak escarp
the only thing we know about the family Reaper was stalking is that it was not some random family - they have some significance to Reaper/Reyes
iron plume
we know he did get married because we're told he has a family