Really curious how this is gonna end. 
đˇ
#lore-discussion
sacred hamlet
peak escarp
some people are claiming they got in with a tune on the piano
but without any video proof, I'm not believing any of them
peak escarp
jebait?
sacred hamlet
A troll.
peak escarp
why not just say bait
sacred hamlet
Because I use dumb lingo.
Either way I'm gonna mess with it a bit until I get tired
peak escarp
so many people are confused by the two stars behind a soccer ball on Paris
chilly peak
yup, and it doesn't necessary refference only to France's wins in world cup
it's one of the explanations, but it could be something different
edgy relic
I think it would be neat if someone made a one-map Left 4 Dead or Left 4 Dead 2 campaign based on the Rialto Night/Retribution map. The hardest part would be remaking the map, even if it's sparsely detailed, in the Source Engine. Easy would be incorporating some of the music. Program a tank to spawn in the spots where the Heavy Assault spawns, and then let the Left 4 Dead AI director handle the rest of the enemies. And of course, set up the finale with a helicopter rescue.
valid shell
@edgy relic Wrong channel.
regal coyote
goes from secretroom (fake) back to the 2 stars and then the rule of 3 in paris, then to ke tones on piano in the room, to the back basemend door of that same room.
also something about license plates now.
i would say all of them fake.
exept for the voices stop when certain character is around part.
the mroe interesting new post is about maxi being the new hero since the "M" on the lowder part should be his , and the broken world on top might be maxi's name.
edgy relic
Well, then what would the correct channel be?
#overwatch doesn't seem right, either
And #general-discussion is too busy.
slow goblet
Itâs more right than lore discussion
iron plume
general being too busy doesn't mean you should post off topic to other channels
you know where it belongs
edgy relic
Fine.
slow goblet
As much as I would it to be, I donât reckon itâs gonna be Max. We could be getting him eventually but I donât think heâs next.
chilly peak
It's Maximilien, not Maximilian. Therefore, this broken word doesn't fit
as for now, the Paris riddle is a dead end
I think we have to wait for the next PTR and then use Doomfist out-of-map trick
also I believe that on the next teaser there will be another broken words or sentences and if we combine both teaser we might get something
frank fox
Also the new leak happened
hasty surge
New teaser?
frank fox
Yeah that
coarse island
Next hero?
chilly peak
what leak/teaser?
frank fox
There was a talon letter released
chilly peak
it's not a leak
snow star
chilly peak
Blizzard released this teaser as planned, so it's not a leak
lyric scaffold
I would like to point out my observations if i may:
-Car license plates seem to have musical notes on the back of some of them, (would like to be able to understand what all the figures mean tbh)
-I found a audio spot in the map near the second floor of a building. Similar to the behavior of the music by the "Main Door"
You can only hear it when your close to the wall. And the audio is unusual. It sounds like a power tool and electricity for some sort of engineering.
- Also there a 4 security cameras i found in the map 3 being in the police station
rustic light
The Omnic language is never going to go anywhere, we already tried this back on Numbani
The subreddit is going on circles
Also March releases second teasers were apparently done the 24 of February, both of them
And yes, the Brigitte one was on Sunday, so it's not like an employee is gonna be like "im not getting paid to post this"
silent nymph
So there is a chance that we can see a teaser today, if so then I'm hyped. How many teasers are there usually before a release?
quasi siren
3
silent nymph
So if we had one on Thursday, and have one today, Sunday, we could potentially have another on Wednesday and a release on Thursday? I thought most hero releases were on Thursdays
rustic light
Orisa's last teaser was 27 and Brigittes was 26 so yeah
both second teaser was on the 24
worthy rose
So what about hero 30
rustic light
There are 2 more
rustic light
Why? the last 2 teases like this were both in february 24, Brigitte on sunday
chilly peak
we don't know how many teasers left
limpid agate
Ana and DF had 1 teaser. Hammond had 3 if you include the one on the morning of his reveal date
Brig had 4, Orisa had 3
Sombra had 2, Moira/Ashe had 0
Its not impossible for there to be one today
But I'd say its unlikely
And we dont know how many remain
My bet is on just 1 more
worthy rose
how about we wait for the teaser to come out instead of speculating when they might release it based on some random information from the past?
peak escarp
According to Michael, the Omnics have a bit more freedom in Paris: âKings Row is definitely one of the places where the Omnics and the humans don't get along well. Omnics are more accepted in France in the Overwatch universe, but there are still some issues theyâre trying to work out. In London they have an underworld but in Paris theyâre mostly accepted, just not quite.â
regal coyote
so it is the whole "different drinking fountain" kinda deal, if omnics were to use drinking fountains
worthy rose
segregation is what youâre looking for i think
formal ether
does anyone think that the tele in spawn might have something to do with hero 30? or Archives? i know they patched it out but wasnt that kinda wierd
peak escarp
I'd say it's more like just after desegregation - omnics are equal on paper, but society still hasn't adapted
formal ether
sorry wrong convo
silent nymph
no teaer today?
peak escarp
probably not
clear remnant
Yeah, I think it's as you said doctor, that they still haven't adapted and also some people (like homophobes or racists) are still gonna be there, most people will like the robots but there are some people who think they're still superior
But Yeah, it does seem they're liked more in Paris because if you look around (from my knowledge) theres no graffiti that shows they hate them
peak escarp
it's less segregation and more systemic inequality
limpid agate
Recently, a controversial Omnic Rights Legislation was passed in Paris.
peak escarp
more equal than King's Row but less than Numbani or Japan
the controversy of that legislation could be that it gives the omnics equal rights
on paper, at least
limpid agate
Omnics also still have their own neighbourhood
clear remnant
Yeah
limpid agate
Which may not necessarily always be a sign of segregation (See: Chinatown, Little Italy, etc.)
But in this case, it appears to be one, with the Omnic Power grafitti by omnic artists
iron plume
having your own neighborhoods is by definition segregation
the difference is whether it's cultural or enforced by government
clear remnant
I think it's the people that won't open up, since I believe that they started making omnics recently, they probably aren't used to a robot having the same rights and being able to do what they are supposed to do
iron plume
they "started making" omnics at least around 20 years ago
and I mean the humanoid ones
since we know Zenyatta is 19
clear remnant
Yeah, that only proves my point
limpid agate
Omnics have existed before that
clear remnant
There could be some people that think that omnics don't deserve rights
limpid agate
Bob pretty much raised Ashe, for example
iron plume
it's mid-2070s
clear remnant
And raise their children to not like omnics
Ok, so that
Ehhh
Ashe is 39
So bob would be around that age, and it's in the 2070s, so that gives us about 2031 when bob was around or even longer
(For ashe)
peak escarp
I'd like to know how long Bob has worked for the Ashe family
it's possible he has been with them since the omnic crisis
even during the crisis
which would indicate the existence of civilian omnics during the crisis
clear remnant
So maybe, that around the 2030s or less they started making omnics humanoid or, this is a game and they have more advancements than the real world
So they'd be able to make a bunch of trlest subjects then try the omnics out for being butler's and stuff
cunning ledge
I like the idea that her family specially commissioned an omnic from omnica to be her butler
Not sure if anyone else has had that theory
worthy rose
did we get a teaser today?
iron plume
no
untold timber
do you think blizzard would ever go crazy and add an extra terrestrial? It wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility imo
worthy rose
technical hammond and winston are
untold timber
I mean an actual alien
peak escarp
I don't think so
iron plume
no
peak escarp
Overwatch is pretty grounded for a scifi game
peak escarp
yep
rustic light
at least someone realized baptiste is probably a red herring
iron plume
the only posts I see are actually checking the room and confirming nothing is in there
rustic light
people are getting hyped up over lies and misinformation
feral sequoia
@rustic light literally every other char, most of the community has been wrong
i dont think anyone saw ashe coming
rustic light
how amazing that people claim voicelines and piano opened the door but no evidence
peak escarp
Ashe is pretty much the only hero nobody predicted
rustic light
Hammond, Sombra and Doomfist were names already in the lore told to us
iron plume
no they weren't and no they weren't
rustic light
Ashe wasn't predicted because she wasn-t going to be a hero
feral sequoia
i think youre confusing mechanics with actual character
iron plume
and Hammond was predicted in everything but species
rustic light
Doomfist was REQUESTED, they didn't have plans for him to be playable
iron plume
I'm talking about the pre-release period
rustic light
Hammond was basically given to us with the map
feral sequoia
well whatever you want to call it. same with hammond too
iron plume
So basically
"the people were wrong about everything except when they were right because it doesn't count"
and "every hero was a misdirect except the ones that weren't because that's different"
feral sequoia
no? not what i'm saying at all
iron plume
"Hammond was basically given to us with the map"
...in other words, he had hints that lead to his reveal
and what are you on about with Ashe not going to be a hero
rustic light
They said it on the interview
iron plume
they're talking about much further back in the process
She was definitely a formed hero by the time the pre-release teasers would be getting posted
they just weren't because they usually aren't for Blizzcon heroes
rustic light
The team said Ashe was just created for the reunion short
They loved her so much that they decided to make her playable
iron plume
do you know how long those take
feral sequoia
yeah but you're talking about actual development of the hero, not the communities perception of whatever material is released and using that material to come to a conclusion that is (typically) wrong
rustic light
I don't think you understand what I'm saying.
Obviously she had development time, no one is doubting that
iron plume
I donât think you understand what iâm saying
rustic light
But she wasn't planned like other heroes, she wasn't teased, she wasn't written a year before
iron plume
itâs not common for heroes to have teases so long in advance that Ashe wouldnât be formed by that time
feral sequoia
that is confusing as hell
iron plume
one, maybe two heroes were actually teased like that
and those would be the first two, who would be formed by the gameâs release
rustic light
what
iron plume
what heroes were teased years in advance
rustic light
I said written
iron plume
or even 3+ months
youâre saying Ashe wasnât teased because she had a faster development process
what heroes were teased far enough in advance that Ashe wouldnât be mostly formed by then? (3+ months)
rustic light
Moira was teased in Oasis, 11 months before her appearance
Ana was teased in Egypt, 10 months before her appearance
Hammond was teased in Lunar Colony, 15 months before his appearance
iron plume
...and the rest?
rustic light
Dude in 5 minutes I researched 3 heroes
iron plume
I'll give you a spoiler alert, none of them were to the extent that they wouldn't be on that stage of the development
iron plume
you're also saying it's about them "not wanting to make her a hero", but those aren't specifically hero teasers either
rustic light
You just want to be right always, the team literally said Ashe wasn't meant to be playable, she was only made for Reunion
I don't have to argue this, in comparison with other heroes, that's most likely the reason she didn't have teases in Route 66
iron plume
you can count Doomfist as having 2+ years but that won't be genuine
limpid agate
Doomfist was made as a concept and then tabled when Numabni came out
iron plume
You just want to be right always
huh
the team literally said Ashe wasn't meant to be playable, she was only made for Reunion
not what I'm arguing against
if that's your only point, then yes, congrats on being right I guess
limpid agate
Every hero other than Orisa and Ashe was introduced year(s) in advance
iron plume
they were known quantities (although how known is questionable for Moira) but it doesn't mean they were meant to be heroes, just like Ashe
we know DF wasn't originally
or at least at some point before he was
limpid agate
Correct
They changed their mind between The Exhibit and Numbani
For Ashe, they decided it shortly after her creation
She was an exceptional care of the stars aligning
rustic light
The point being talked about before was that the only reason they "predicted" Hammond or Sombra is because those names were given to us, and even then Sombra was upvoted to be the sniper support and Hammond to be jetpack cat so like someone else said, r/overwatch mostly gets it wrong
limpid agate
Oh yeah. Except reddit didn't think hammond was a cat
that was just me
They thought he was a monkey
peak escarp
they were dead set on him being Evil Winston
rustic light
I saw the post about hammond being a cat because Gorillas often have cat pets
limpid agate
Oh that wasn't me
peak escarp
I saw one person (I think it was SYS) who thought Hammond was the rabbit Moira experimented on
rustic light
I don't think we can say r/overwatch predicted heroes when all they do is often grab a name teased to us and say it's gonna be a hero
even Antonio was highly upvoted to be a talon tank
hero "29"
rustic light
Although we are missing a hero for that map
iron plume
what's your hateboner for r/ow lmao
rustic light
I like r/ow, but I wouldn't say they predicted them lol
iron plume
it's not like the reddit is the only ones
it's almost always the first reaction
and it's often not wrong
peak escarp
oh yeah and Blizzardworld
iron plume
well the thing about reddi tis
it has a lot of people
usually some with different theories
and you can say "reddit predicted it" even if one of them hit it close
peak escarp
Davi, you do realize this is the r/OW discord server?
rustic light
Man the only reason the other person and I were discussing this is because you said reddit predicted Doomfist, Sombra, Ana and Hammond when they were dead-wrong about them
iron plume
...what
firstly, "reddit" was all you, what was initially mentioned was "most of the community"
secondly, are you honestly going to tell me most people didn't call Sombra and Doomfist when it was their turn
when it was made so incredibly obvious
if anything the only people that didn't were the ones claiming everything is a misdirect
limpid agate
Reddit was wrong every time
iron plume
you wanna elaborate on that?
who's supposed to be the prevailing theory in Sombra's time
I know Ana was thought to be Sombra and I'll take that as being wrong
but after ana?
Hammond was everything but species after the Horizon rework hints
limpid agate
Sorry I was moving between devices I'll elaborate
rustic light
I'll repeat what I said, the community only said X name is gonna be a hero because the names were given to them
After that, every other thing was dead wrong about them unless directly given to us
I wouldn't call that "predicting"
iron plume
you know there's a lot of names right
you're claiming it's stupid to think anyone from the Baptiste teaser is a future hero because names are misdirects
but when the names aren't misdirects you dismiss it
limpid agate
Prediction -> Reality
Sombra -> Ana
Liao (for people sick of the ARG) -> Sombra
Doomfist -> Orisa
Hammond (most popular variation at this time was with the Doomfist Gauntlet) -> Doomfist
Junkerqueen -> Moira
??? -> Brig
Junkerqueen -> Hammond
??? -> Ashe
Definitely not Baptiste that's too obvious -> Hero 30
rustic light
There's a lot of names yes, and all of them has been at some point said to be the next hero, but like I said, that is not "predicting" a hero
limpid agate
I dont remember the common reddit thoughts for Brig/Ashe predictions
rustic light
And I'm not claiming it's stupid, I'm just saying it's a red herring
iron plume
"all of them has been at some point said to be the next hero" no they haven't
limpid agate
I think female McCree was the only time they were right, and that was after Route 66 got a small PTR change with the payload
rustic light
Female McCree came from a leak too
limpid agate
No
iron plume
I question "for people sick of the ARG" because that deliberately excludes Sombra theories
iron plume
which is kinda fitting the data to the conclusion
rustic light
Oh really? wasn't aware
limpid agate
As soon as the map got updated people started saying cowgirl hero 29
iron plume
I remember the JQ posts yeah
peak escarp
we thought Ashe was for sure going to be Junker Queen
iron plume
There were definitely Brig theories after Honor and Glory
limpid agate
@iron plume It was very popular that people were suggesting Sombra was just a device to introduce hero 23 and not hero 23 heroself
Others who hated the ARG said "Fuck Sombra give Liao"
So that time, it was obvious that Sombra was hero 23 thanks to the ARG
But a very vocal part still said its not, its Liao. I think in that case though they were also right
sacred hamlet
@peak escarp For good reason
limpid agate
Just Sombra and Ashe were correct predictions from Reddit
peak escarp
even you were convinced that "cowgirl with a shotgun" was a drunk's description of JQ, Jewvia
iron plume
There was a lot of posts for Brig and Hammond
peak escarp
Ashe just proved that curveballs can happen at any time
limpid agate
Yes I was
sacred hamlet
What was the most popular prediction at Brigitte's release anyways
Jetpack or Brig
limpid agate
Punk biker cowgirl with a shotgun and mech component
After I spent months theorizing that Junkerqueen had a shotgun axe and a mech ult
rustic light
LOL I remember they thought it was jetpack cat from that one teaser omg I forgot that
peak escarp
after White Dome it was all Emre
sacred hamlet
It wasn't just one teaser I think
rustic light
Emre yeah
sacred hamlet
they pushed the Jetpack thing a lot
limpid agate
Emre was the only real red herring
iron plume
at that teaser it was clearly brigitte
rustic light
Emre was the red herring you could say
peak escarp
don't remember what was before White Dome
iron plume
you fell for a meme
iron plume
well either that or you're BSing to feel superior for some reason
limpid agate
Brig got me to expect Jetpack Cat Hammond for hero 28.
iron plume
By the time of the teaser with Jetpack Cat it wasn't going to be anyone but Brig
limpid agate
But the HLC rework made me shift to just "Hammond but most likely jetpack cat"
In the end we got "Cats are too silly have a Hamster ball Hammond"
iron plume
no one who wasn't taking the piss said it wouldn't be her
iron plume
Horizon lunar colony
limpid agate
Horizon
Lunar
Colony
iron plume
yes
sacred hamlet
well emre was a dumb guess anyways
People see a single new name show up in an official piece from Blizz and they immediately jump on board
iron plume
it was alright for a guess
sacred hamlet
at least Baptiste is being reinforced with other descriptions
peak escarp
if you want to know what the teasers made people think, just read the Twitter comments
rustic light
I believe the red herring for Orisa's was Efi
sacred hamlet
Being antagonistic, beating Talon's ass and confirmed as Medic
Theories on Efi controlling a robot to battle were fine
rustic light
Second teaser was all about Doomfist being the next hero
sacred hamlet
it was believable at least
rustic light
"eyewitness reports of-"
iron plume
it's basically the same concept
untold timber
The fact that people had major interest in Doomfist since like release said he would be announced eventually.
rustic light
I don't think anyone expected a horse robot before teaser 2
limpid agate
My personal predictions over the months were:
Ana -> Ana
Sombra -> Sombra
Numbani hero that may or may not be Doomfist -> Orisa
Doomfist for sure this time -> Doomfist
Ex-Overwatch -> Moira (Technically right, but I take this as a wrong)
Talon Power Armor -> Brig
Jetpack Cat Hammond -> Hamster Ball Hammond
Junkerqueen -> Ashe
Hamid Faisal -> Hero 30
sacred hamlet
Her being some kind of Centaur was impossible to predict
So yeah no one guessed that
rustic light
Dr Faisal is someone I'm waiting for but I believe he might be theJuly release
peak escarp
he's seeming less likely now
limpid agate
For 30, agreed
iron plume
might still be if we take a Brig-like turn with the first teaser
limpid agate
For 31, I'll wait and see waht happens
iron plume
but yes
untold timber
Besides like doomfist and sombra has the community really been extremely hyped for a release? Like who would you want to see specifically from lore
peak escarp
Max
limpid agate
If 30 is Baptiste, my earlier and subject to major change predictions for 31 and 32 are Hamid and Echo.
peak escarp
Lynx
limpid agate
But I would love to see Sanjay Korpal
iron plume
those are two different questions
sacred hamlet
Max is basically confirmed forthe future
iron plume
hardly
sacred hamlet
If they take the same hype approach for Doomfist
limpid agate
He isnt
iron plume
we've had "junker queen basically confirmed" and then she wasn't
limpid agate
In fact, him having a player icon works against him
sacred hamlet
Does it really
iron plume
d.mon, aka the least interesting of the meka squad
sacred hamlet
I hear more Max and Junkerqueen than anything
So I assume we'll get those eventually
peak escarp
I want Casino
iron plume
yee
rustic light
DMon was said to be looked at, right? They wanted to explore more MEKA pilots
sacred hamlet
A casino map
iron plume
I'd like to see Hamid
sacred hamlet
Is that what you mean
iron plume
no
rustic light
Casino is the green meka pilot
iron plume
Casino is one of the Meka squad
sacred hamlet
Sounds unnecessary
peak escarp
and I don't necessarily want them as a playable hero, but I do want to know what happened to Liao
iron plume
the one with a fast aerodynamic meka
sacred hamlet
People found Brig unnecessary since she felt like a clone of Rein
iron plume
!!lorewiki Casino
twilit nacelleBOT
For more information about the game, please refer to the wiki: https://overwatch.gamepedia.com/Casino
sacred hamlet
They'll find Casino the same
iron plume
except she isn't?
sacred hamlet
A design clone
peak escarp
I want to know if there's a link between Casino and Max
iron plume
and casino wouldn't be either
limpid agate
My hopes if we get a second MEKA pilot are, in order:
Overlord (gameplay) > Casino (lore) > King (true artillery) > D.Mon (popular)
rustic light
Similar mechanics, but it's the same with Ashe if you look at it like that
sacred hamlet
They're basically clone of eachothers - not in gmaeplay - but design.
iron plume
so is Ashe a McCree clone
sacred hamlet
don't think we have to argue over this
Yes I personally think they are
design wise
Not gameplay
rustic light
KING is very interesting tbh
iron plume
well you're consistent at least
sacred hamlet
Thank you đ
Also this Hamid thing still sounds dumb to me
Sounds like he'll just be throwing pots at people if we follow the whole "archeologist" or whatever his profession is
Unless they stuck him into a mech, then they can be more creative.
rustic light
I dont think its related but there is a mecha in Junkertown that says K-NG
peak escarp
if you saw a description of Mei being a climatologist without knowing what she was like, what would you expect her kit to be?
sacred hamlet
To be honest I don't like Mei as a playable character either
iron plume
i mean
I'd expect her to have weather effects
sacred hamlet
Her gameplay kit is fun and is okay for the game
rustic light
@sacred hamlet the archeologists in Petra use a lot of tools, you can even see a zipline, if anything, Dr.Faisal might be an utility tank/support
iron plume
because that's a common fantasy archetype
sacred hamlet
But she looks silly as a fighter
peak escarp
or Moira as a geneticist?
iron plume
which can be fairly easily science'd
peak escarp
but just from her profession, she doesn't sound like a combatant
sacred hamlet
@rustic light That's why putting him in a mech seems more fitting
He can utilize his tools better there
untold timber
Hell even concept art mei was more badass than current mei imo
iron plume
why would he have a mech
rustic light
I don't think a mech would be it
iron plume
@untold timber no shit she was, that's part of the reason they changed it
rustic light
maybe exo armor, because petra is dangerous at most, but I cant see an archeologist using that in his profession
iron plume
not everyone has to be badass action woman with her tits in cling film #423
sacred hamlet
You can turn him into a Buff Indy with a luger pistol and call it a day I guess
untold timber
@iron plume she had a coat on
iron plume
lol
sacred hamlet
that'd make him more of a fighter in my eyes
untold timber
It was proper attire for combat lol
peak escarp
iron plume
oh I'm sorry that's much more reasonable yes
rustic light
they said that design was too menacing for what they wanted
sacred hamlet
Wow slender Mei coming through
peak escarp
tights and a skintight parka aren't exactly practical clothes in the Antarctic
iron plume
especially those yoga pants
sacred hamlet
Seems like a pre-2015 design were they made every female but Pharah have the same body design
rustic light
this looks like ice moira tbh, I like mei actual design way more
iron plume
basically yes
peak escarp
pretty much
sacred hamlet
@peak escarp As for the Moira thing, I felt they made her way more threatening before being released as a whole.
iron plume
anyway back to the actual topic
I could see Hamid having a kind of construction suit
sacred hamlet
Being part of Talon gave her a more menacing vibe
peak escarp
exactly my point
sacred hamlet
Mei however is just... Mei.
peak escarp
they will make Hamid more interesting/threatening before he becomes a hero
sacred hamlet
Yeah that would work fine
peak escarp
Mei is more interesting than just a researcher, at the very least
rustic light
Not every hero has to look "badass" imo
peak escarp
right now we know nothing about him
rustic light
Mei is adorable and wholesome
peak escarp
just that he's an archaeologist
sacred hamlet
Not badass, just realistic.
Mei wearing nothing but winter clothing for a fight just doesn't click to me
quasi siren
Who is Hamid?
iron plume
an Oasis-affiliated archaeologist
peak escarp
the archaeologist mentioned on Petra
quasi siren
Oh ok
iron plume
was namedropped on Petra and mentioned in Bastet
quasi siren
Oh yeah I remember now
rustic light
Mei wearing winter clothes doesn't click to you? that's more than half the heroes that wear clothes instead of armor
sacred hamlet
I mean, she's supposed to be a frontliner.
peak escarp
Mei?
sacred hamlet
Not a marksman like McCree, or a Sniper like Ana.
rustic light
She was a defense hero
peak escarp
she's not supposed to be a frontliner
iron plume
she's not a frontliner
peak escarp
she's a scientist
rustic light
quoting soldier
iron plume
she's not a fighter in lore
she's just very resourceful
rustic light
"we're all scientists now"
peak escarp
in lore she isn't even a combatant
sacred hamlet
Well from a lore perspective she fits
as a fighter she doesn't
which her feel weird in game
peak escarp
we're only concerned with the lore perspective
rustic light
She is gonna join Winston but who knows if she will be there fighting
so far she only has only written about her adventures, right?
peak escarp
yep
sacred hamlet
Would her in-game interactions be canon
about her adventuring places and everything
peak escarp
it's my favorite written lore because it has dates
rustic light
October 31: Los Angeles, USA
Boo! (Happy Halloween!)
rustic light
"So I'm starting this journal. Honestly, I'm not sure who's going to want to read this. It was the idea of my colleague, Winston. He thinks that people will find my "unique" perspective interesting."
you can tell she met him I guess
sacred hamlet
Is this after recall
rustic light
yeah
peak escarp
the journal also indicates that she us semi-famous
rustic light
dva says in-game that she loves the journal
peak escarp
so it's a published journal
sacred hamlet
Is all of this still relevant after the Bio "rework" though.
If she escaped the Facility she would've probably already contacted Winston and be working on the information gathered from 9 years
peak escarp
I don't see why not
rustic light
I'm not sure what you mean
after the mei cinematic, she would do the same things described
sacred hamlet
Makes sense
peak escarp
in the journal she says she's gathering data from other research stations
sacred hamlet
But I'm guessing that in the Cinematic version she would've tried contacting Winston earlier after knowing about's OW's fall and the Recall.
But probably the same
peak escarp
the journal is after she contacted Winston
sacred hamlet
Must be the same thing then.
fast pulsar
Guys quick question
The opening intro every time you open up overwatch
I can't understand Winston first few words
rustic light
an interesting detail about most cinematics is how they show you the moon or the recall to tell you it's happening in the same night
fast pulsar
It sounds like "Cruel Experiment" or something
vocal pine
You mean when he's adjusting the camera?
fast pulsar
Yeah
vocal pine
He says "Is this on?"
fast pulsar
And after that
like something like "I'm sure I can do this because-" or something like that
Sorry I can't hear very well
peak escarp
to put things in context, while she's in LA for Halloween, Sombra is wrapping up her ARG and preparing to go to Russia
vocal pine
^
rustic light
it's the tracer thing
sacred hamlet
Yep
vocal pine
"I built a chronol accelerator, I'm sure I can do this."
fast pulsar
Ok thank you
It was bothering me for awhile lol
But I couldn't understand because as I may have implied earlier I'm partially deaf
peak escarp
not all the full moons happen on the same night
Dragons doesn't happen the same night as Hero
they've used several full moons
peak escarp
the full moon in Bastet might be the same full moon as in Reflections, based on when the stories take place
rustic light
how do we know the dragons one isnt the same?
dire timber
has there been any moon that hasn't been a full moon?
clever silo
Because Hanzo is seen somewhere else in Reflections
rustic light
but Doctor Six said Hero, not Reflections
rustic light
Yeah.
clever silo
I thought you meant how do we know Dragons isnât the same night as Relfections/Bastet
rustic light
I think the recall moon is one moon and the reflections one is another
clever silo
Do Recall have a moon?
peak escarp
because Dragons takes place in spring, when the cherry blossoms are out
while Hero happens while LM is setting up for the Nov 1st riot in Dorado
Recall does not have a full moon
rustic light
I should've said night
So Dragons happen after recall I guess, but before reflections obviously
clever silo
I donât know if it happens before Reflections
rustic light
I'm pretty sure hanzo appearance tells us that
clever silo
I might be wrong, but Iâm pretty certain Genji is back in Nepal in Reflections
Would he return after visiting Hanzo?
Iâm unsure
limpid agate
Dragons happened around the same time as Recall/Hero/Alive
clever silo
I wonder if Reunion is before or after Reflections?
limpid agate
Its uhh
A bit circular
It was originally before Recall
But Reunion moved the train heist to after Recall
Screenshot from Are You With Us
sacred hamlet
Is the screenshot supposed to be from Route 66
'Cause that sure looks way more dramatic than it actually is
frosty shell
Are You With Us screenshots are of dubious canonicity given the medal ceremony pic
limpid agate
Which is canon, but aged up
sacred hamlet
Yes maybe
limpid agate
Is the answer we were given
rustic light
didn't they say the picture with genji, mccree, ana, etc was not accurate?
limpid agate
The medal ceremony was said to still be a canon event so long as Jack and Ana are older.
frosty shell
the trouble with it being canon is why would McCree be there?
limpid agate
He is Overwatch, isnt he
sacred hamlet
Is Mercy being at the medal ceremony still canon
frosty shell
But wouldn't McCree have been secret
frosty shell
My explanation for McCree being there was that he was pardoned but got into trouble again later
McCree was an outlaw, though
peak escarp
joining Overwatch was his penance
worthy rose
Now that's a McCree story I'd like to see
probably won't see it but I'd love to see it
worthy rose
Mcree thicc
slow goblet
I really want a comic or story about that. As fun as a lot of the fancomics are, I do want to see how it actually went.
I may not want it as much as I want some more lore for Zen or Moira or Mercy, or a Lucio and Symmetra fight cinematic, but itâs definitely up there
slow goblet
I feel like Jack might have been. I reckon Ana was on board tho, in a âsure we can give him one chance but if he fucks up then imma shoot himâ kinda way
dire timber
I mean, wasn't Gabe the one who made the offer?
peak escarp
does it say that?
I thought it was just Overwath that made the offer, not Gabe specifically
dire timber
Idk
I was under the impression that it was Gabe
especially since Gabe having tons of leeway in terms of what Blackwatch does is kind of his thing
he wouldn't have a new member pushed on his own division against his will
worthy rose
Huh....
dire timber
so overall, I'm pretty much certain that it was his call
peak escarp
maybe
worthy rose
I'm agreeing with slignerd mainly cause Jack didn't know about Moira seemingly which means to me that Gabe has more or less total control on who he picks up?
slow goblet
Itâs likely one of them was.
please Blizzard I know I might be hoping too much but show it please
peak escarp
it would make a good Archives event . . . Jack/Ana/Torb/Rein vs Deadlock, with Ashe and McCree as minibosses
clever silo
Would they use Ana though? Because of the whole healer thing
peak escarp
yeah, I hesitated to add her
but they needed 4 and they can't use Gabe for the same reason
odd dagger
That makes sense
peak escarp
maybe of we ever get another old Overwatch member
iron plume
soldier wouldn't have the biotic thing either, would he
rustic light
hang on a second
odd dagger
like an original?
iron plume
it's less of a deviation than the others but still
rustic light
who would be the minions for that archives event
iron plume
deadlock mooks?
clever silo
Deadlock members
peak escarp
the Triplets and Bars
odd dagger
like from the ashe movie
iron plume
based on them yes
peak escarp
Bob
rustic light
but they were 5?
iron plume
those aren't the only people in deadlock
odd dagger
its a really big operation
clever silo
Have more
odd dagger
oh ok
rustic light
archives is like, waves and waves , it wouldnt really make sense, sure maybe there is more than 5 but not THAT much
clever silo
Why do you think that?
iron plume
it doesn't make sense there's that many talon troopers on short call either
peak escarp
just like how Blackwatch is more than just those 4
clever silo
And it almost seemed like Antonio was expecting Reyes to me.
iron plume
whereas the R66 takedown crippled Deadlock
worthy rose
I hope not, personally I'd like a new map instead of a reskin of Route 66
iron plume
there could well be everyone in there
odd dagger
maybe just a different area
iron plume
also the Rialto base isn't their HQ
just Antonio's
it's obviously heavily guarded but it's not the center of all talon activity
the gameplay will be an exaggeration in some ways whatever way you slice it
rustic light
They had a room filled with talon guns, it wasn't just heavily guarded
odd dagger
thats what heavily guarded means
iron plume
having rooms with a lot of guns is what heavily guarded places usually do
rustic light
Its silly to think deadlock could be close to having talon numbers
Even ashe origin only shows the small gang we have seen
iron plume
they don't need to have talon numbers
they need to have numbers comparable to one talon base
with Talon being a global organization and Deadlock being concentrated in one area
rustic light
At most there is like 6 bikes in r66 and the last spawn has space for 10 people, I dont understand where all these members are hiding
iron plume
and the origin story doesn't have them at its height
bruh
in Retribution we've had 40 troopers coming from the same elevator
are you really going to pull the "where were they before gameplay"
rustic light
They. Had. Ships.
iron plume
at the start
like
is this really the hill you're going to fight on
realistic space in video games
what we see may not be the whole base
they can come in on bikes
how is that a sticking point
this is such a non-issue istg
rustic light
I s2g this is why I cant take you seriously, r66 as an archives event, we are gonna kill 300 deadlock members that come in bikes
iron plume
how is that any bloody different
clever silo
wait
iron plume
christ
clever silo
you can play through archives modes multiple times
does that mean talon has infinite enemies confirmed?!?!?!
iron plume
lol
rustic light
Wh
clever silo
if you stay in the end of retribution, infinite talon troops come until you get on the ship!
iron plume
shit u right
rustic light
Well keep waiting for your r66 event
clever silo
wait, so its canon that you can stand on someones corpse and they come back to life?1?
iron plume
I don't even think it's going to happen
clever silo
yeah i dont think its gonna happen
but its ridiculous to think it wont for the reason you gave
iron plume
but "unrealistic enemy numbers" is the dumbest reason for it not to
rustic light
Why do I even bother
iron plume
with those points, I don't know
rustic light
Yeah I'm pretty sure deadlock is a gang, not a big organization
clever silo
jesus christ
iron plume
they're big enough for Overwatch to take notice and decide to take them down
clever silo
im not going to go back into this circle
rustic light
You dont have to be big, you have to be dangerous enough
iron plume
rustic light
And even then, Jack makes mention that Gabe had to deal with them, I doubt he went there personally with Ana, Torb or Rein
Its also mentioned they were noticed because they were moving firearms, so thats why they sent Gabe/Blackwatch to set them a trap
limpid agate
Scrolling up, this isn't a thing about having infinite armies
Its about scale
Deadlock gang isn't as massive an organization as Talon
It would have what, 200 members? Where a gamemode would theoretically be eliminating every member of the game
Talon is not as comparable. Talon probably has thousands of troops
Considering its an international criminal army
A Deadlock event would be wiping out the entire gang
While a Talon or Overwatch enemy base would be barely scratching the surface
sacred hamlet
Although their speed at responding to Blackwatch's raid does feel a bit unrealistic
limpid agate
That was HQ
sacred hamlet
Was it really
limpid agate
Yes
sacred hamlet
I thought it was jsut one of their minor bases.
sacred hamlet
Doomfist's Mentor was Talon's leader at that time right
sacred hamlet
Antonio was just a gunsdealer leading a part of talon
limpid agate
No
Antonio was the main leader at the time
At some time between Retribution and the present, a council of leaders formed
Probably in the aftermath of his death
Even though the title of leader was being passed to Vialli
rustic light
God thank you
sacred hamlet
Guess I confused it then
So if not for the position at Talon, Doomfist killed Akinjide for the glove itself.
"Though the Talon council considered Adeyemi a useful asset, they came to favor Ogundimu for his superior ambition, intelligence, and leadership abilities."
Or maybe it really was just for the position itself, and Talon didn't wanna bother with Akinjide if Doom was already superior to him.
Weird how they didn't keep him around anyways.
limpid agate
This difference in aspiration would lead Ogundimu to kill his teacher and take on the mantle of Doomfist, along with the eponymous gauntlet.
rustic light
Another thing to add to the Deadlock thing, it was a trap, Deadlock came to them, not Overwatch going to r66
sacred hamlet
I'm wondering if this was an individual choice from Doomfist or he was influenced to do it
Probably both.
limpid agate
The Deadlock raid that ended in McCree joining Overwatch was a sting operation by Overwatch
sacred hamlet
Wasn't McCree just there for the chip instead of Deadlock itself.
He clearly points it out in the Cinematic
limpid agate
That's... A different raid entirely
That was McCree vs Deadlock
Not Overwatch vs Deadlock
sacred hamlet
Oh I confused Recall Overwatch vs Old Overwatch.
rustic light
Basically the event where McCree got captured is heavily implied to be
Gabe/Blackwatch setting up a sting to capture the gang
Not anything like Gabe ,Ana, Torb and Jack going to fight them
worthy rose
what about it
fringe blade
You know how the old man died in the throne?
worthy rose
yes
limpid agate
Balderich, yes.
fringe blade
So did they just leave his body to decompose in his suit?
worthy rose
seems like it
rustic light
They had to leave so yeah
rustic light
It's funny because in-game you got Rein wanting to recover the armor
but in his cinematic, he's right the in front of it just to pay respects basically
sacred hamlet
Something something in-game Interactions are not canon, except sometimes they are but mostly not
rustic light
that's the point
rein line is just to tell you the objective of the payload and all
but in the actual canon, he can just visit with no problem
rustic light
Rein says "I will recover my master's armor!" in attack
sacred hamlet
Yes
rustic light
"One team must escort a battering ram to Eichenwalde Castle to reclaim Balderichâs remains from their current resting place, while the opposing team does everything in its power to stop the keep from being breached"
sacred hamlet
But didn't you just say Rein and brig wen't there themselves to honor him
Instead of well, recovering the armor
sacred hamlet
even though they could've already recovered the armor by the tim they went there
rustic light
because they are clearly not doing that in the cinematic
sacred hamlet
Oh so you're pointing out the inconsistencies
I mean yeah, unfortunately most Maps in OW don't make a lot of sense in-game
At least the objective in Kings Row is pretty clear
One wants to destroy Omnics with an EMP and the other wants to defend them
They're mostly playgrounds
rustic light
The maps with the ship have a little athena voice explaining them
like Illios has seen Talon activity
sacred hamlet
Yet you see OW members going at eachother every match
which doesn't matter since it's just Smash Bros
sacred hamlet
But I guess it's just give them a reason to be there
rustic light
Why is it weird?
sacred hamlet
Still don't see the problem.
fringe blade
Yea, thats a fair point.
sacred hamlet
Balderich's Badge was given to Rein after his death
He basically had to join OW to honor Balderich
sacred hamlet
an since he got kicked out, he came back to return what was once supposed to be Balderich's
Yes yes very emotional
sacred hamlet
He's basically suicidal
rustic light
Balderich sacrificed himself for Rein
Rein already taught his own apprentice
Rein wants to die in battle
Etc etc
sacred hamlet
Not in the killng himself way
But getting himself killed
- The PTSD and decomposing issues of aging
rustic light
I am not sure he has "pstd"
sacred hamlet
He's definitely got something
rustic light
He hallucinates according to his comic "dragonslayer" but nothing else
sacred hamlet
Unless you want to ignore how he sees the world in the comics
Yeah it's not certain what he has
But definitely something
rustic light
Its based on don quixote
sacred hamlet
Yes
It's still something though
I don't think they'd joke about something like that
If it's happened in the Comics with Rein, it probably is a serious issue with him.
Not a 24 7 issue, but maybe he gets too worked up before and during fights.
rustic light
He just sees stuff as a fiction knight at times
Bastion is the one with anything close to PSTD
And maybe DVa
slow goblet
Definitely Dva.
limpid agate
Not definitely D.Va
D.Va does not have PTSD
The Shooting Star flashback was not D.Va having some PTSD flashback
slow goblet
Iâd argue far more that Bastion does not have PTSD, considering he mind jacks another unit for the memories and it seems to reactivate his programming.
But itâs clearly intended to be PTSD. Dvaâs is far more blatant, and I would say it is quite likely
rustic light
To be fair if it was PSTD it would've affected her more while fighting the Omnic
I think it was just a bad memory yeah
sacred hamlet
What Bastion was clearly PTSD
You don't go ballistic from a woodpecker living its life
slow goblet
Iâm trying to say both have PTSD.
I probably should explain myself better, Iâm sorry
rustic light
Idk man Bastion was more like, their programming
vast basin
sacred hamlet
I'm actually sure that they just showed the D.Va memory for exposition
It was probably just a minor memory of hers being used as information for us.
Bastions were probably programmed to respond to gunfire.
But Bastion is a wildcard, so it's hard to say what his reaction is.
slow goblet
Dvaâs short was actually really tied into PTSD... but I donât feel comfortable with discussing this much further.
sacred hamlet
If that's what you think
limpid agate
Thats not PTSD
DVas short was tied into her trying to do everything herself because she feels solely responsible for protecting all of Busan
The flashback wasnt ptsd
It was her reflecting on the previous mission nearly failing, using it as justification to become stronger
Thats not PTSD
rustic light
I feel they would've confirmed it somewhere like they did with Symmetra's autism, its important
slow goblet
I donât feel comfortable with the discussion anymore. I am not going to explain myself further.
Sorry. Iâm still firm in my opinion.
slow goblet
Itâs alright.
sacred hamlet
I frequently have to remind myself that Symmetra has autism since the confirmation.
It's honestly always been a weird characteristic for her
She doesn't look, sound or act the type, but that's probably the spectrum range which results in the differences.
I am glad to share this 200 IQ interaction with you sir.
Damn, should've pointed out the sarcasm.
limpid agate
I thought as much. Shitposting will result in a loss of access.
sacred hamlet
Was just taking at nodge at what he said since I thought it wouldn't be deleted.
But anyways.
At least, from the only comic there is, only signs of Symmetra's autism would be the discomfort towards the crooked painting and the blank stare with Rosa.
The obsession with perfection and peace would usually be hints, but it could apply to a lot of other things as well.
Her awkward interactions in-game also don't prove much since anyone can have those traits.
Feels like they had the idea at an early age and have abandoned it since then.
timid eagle
I theorized before that Reinhardt must have a similar condition that most American football and rugby players receive when they collide against a hard surface multiple times.
sacred hamlet
What would be that condition.
timid eagle
Chronic traumatic encephalopathy.
sacred hamlet
Could you explain your theory.
timid eagle
Itâs a neurodegenerative disease caused by repeated head injuries. Symptoms may include behavioral problems, changes in mood, and problems with thinking. Symptoms typically do not begin until years after the injuries, and CTE often gets worse over time and can result in dementia.
And guess who got the American football skin?
And loves charging into walls?
And remember Sombraâs interaction with Brigitte?
sacred hamlet
Does he really show those symptoms though
worthy rose
rein got some inspiration from the don quioite story so that lines up along with michael chu saying he's very battled scared
sacred hamlet
Rein isn't moody
worthy rose
i mean he saw literal dragons in his comic book
sacred hamlet
He seems to think straight most of the time
And his behavior is honestly normal
He just has his head too far up his ass and he likes to show it.
worthy rose
@timid eagle you're pretty spot on about it tho I don't think chu put a specific name for it
sacred hamlet
He definitely has toned it down along the years
Honor and Glory has clearly shown how reckless he acted back then.
worthy rose
And J08 probably thought of that while designing the armor
timid eagle
I donât know. With Sombraâs interaction, Iâm starting to think thereâs another reason for the organization dismissing Rein.
rustic light
There is definitely another reason
"You won't believe what I found in reinhardt's file"
timid eagle
I hope Reinhardt doesnât die.
sacred hamlet
If someone dies, most likely him.
rustic light
I'd cry because I love him but it fits
He even has Brig to replace him
His motives involve that he wants to go in a blast of glory
And if anything, he would die PROTECTING his friends
it was set from the moment Balderich died for him
timid eagle
âBrigitte.... Be their shield.... Always....â
worthy rose
shut up fam we're here to discuss lore, not break my heart
peak escarp
lol
timid eagle
But, yeah. I think itâs something medical-related that forced Rein to leave the organization.
Aside from age, of course.
rustic light
They forced him to retire
It could also be reasons like the one mentioned in Bastet
worthy rose
I mean personally it would have to be something impactful for Sombra to be able to try and use it as bait against brig. Cause I think she knows Rein isn't all there
rustic light
Who thought Reinhardt could be sneaky though
worthy rose
Like something big and or dark cause this would seemingly have to make you change your opinion of him
rustic light
Rein is a very sad story but at the same time he is one of the best characters
timid eagle
I blame Jack for that. Heâs an idiot to think a 7ft 10 German knight would be âsneakyâ.
rustic light
He lost his master, his friends, and even then he fights to his last breath, even if the omnics took his friends, he defends them
worthy rose
Cause like say it's cancer sombra won't gain much weight for cancer but it's something juicy and i don't think sombra the type to play with no evidence or proof
rustic light
It's not cancer
worthy rose
she's very much a hold all the cards type person i think
ik just giving like an example
rustic light
it's probably something shady, like maybe a reason they didn't want him
"Dr Ziegler has discovered Reinhardt might suffer from 'X thing that gives him hallucinations'"
worthy rose
they'd have gotten that a long while ago
and it would have to be something post uprising i'd assume
rustic light
He didn't have that back then I'm pretty sure
but if they wanted him to retire because he was "old" then that's when it started to manifest, prior to that maybe
timid eagle
Another chronic traumatic encephalopathy symptom that pops up is hallucinations.
I forgot to mention that.
worthy rose
If Sombra had something, and assuming jack let go of Rein before OW got officially shut down it would have to be major cause Torb is real damn pissed so that means either Torb doesn't know something about Rein or Torb knows and thinks rein is justified for doing whatever action it is
spring fossil
lol
rustic light
Sombra knows a lot
she even makes reference to "Joel"
There's this theory that McCree has an alias for writing called "Joel Morricone"
peak escarp
Sombra mentioning Joel is also a reference to McCree's name being Joel during development
timid eagle
I was about to mention that.
peak escarp
before they had decided on a name for him
rustic light
Wait lemme correct myself
McCree makes a reference*
And yeah that's 4th wall breaking but
peak escarp
the Joel Morricone thing is still just a theory
rustic light
"If that's your real name"
McCree is the one to mention it
peak escarp
a likely theory, but still a theory
rustic light
It makes sense tbh
It's also a theory since 2016
and has never been deconfirmed which is amazing
peak escarp
Joel Morricone has never come up since then
rustic light
Well the story hasn't really moved a lot from that point
peak escarp
so they haven't had a need to confirm or deny
rustic light
That's the funny thing, Chu has answered questions like for example, about McCree's gun
but never responded to any about JM, not even to deconfirm it like other questions about other heroes
peak escarp
I've looked through his Twitter - nobody has directly asked him about it
rustic light
I have
He has only replied to my tweet asking if anyone plays animal crossing tho
but regarding mccree's gun
he recently answered that the gun is Unique
not a brand or anything
ofc, I thought the same since
peak escarp
that was obvious
peak escarp
yeah
rustic light
he has a blackwatch version
rustic light
he really cant
like the interview said
chu has written enough for a novel
it's higher positions that don't allow him
peak escarp
yeah
I've tried to think about what I would ask if I could ask one thing and was guaranteed an answer
I think I would want to know either what year Recall takes place, or Orisa's birthday
either one would really solidify the timeline
slow goblet
I want Orisaâs birthday so I can quietly celebrate it every year
peak escarp
that too
rustic light
I want characters bdays so I find out reinhardts sign is a leo
peak escarp
during his 2017 Reddit AMA Chu said they wanted to give us the birthdays but had to make sure they didn't create any timeline issues with them
I think he was talking about their birth years, which I don't care so much about
I just want month and day
once we find out what year Recall is then finding birth years is just a matter of math
the general consensus in the community is 2076, which matches with the few dates we have (Halloween being on a weekend, for example), but that's still unconfirmed
worthy rose
About Reinhardt being forced to retire, it could have been Morrison trying to keep Rein's reputation intact before it all fell apart.
We don't know whether Reinhardt has talked to anyone about his hallucinations, and without those he just seems a bit reckless.
peak escarp
I also thought the year was 2076 so people in-universe would have thought the 76 on Soldier's jacket was for the year
kinda gets around that whole "lol that idiot put his SEP number on his jacket"
instead its "lol that idiot put the year on his jacket"
would be funny if the year had been in front of our faces the whole time
worthy rose
I don't think it's a reputation thing personally
Like no one is gonna look at reinhardt or Tracer and be like "Yea they did some shady shit" when OW was an international organization and it was just a specific branch; I don't think the whole people get hard messed up by it especially when a greater chunk of the world considers them heroes