And how did Winston defeated Doomfist exactly?
#lore-discussion
dawn halo
peak escarp
they probably started working together then
rustic light
I don't think Gabe worked with Akande before the explosion
clever silo
Alright, here's what it was
As she
took a closer look, she could see that the jacket and his flesh
had been ripped apart by a shotgun blast. From that range,
it should have killed him
limpid agate
Maybe not before the explosion, but certainly before the arrest
clever silo
its not as solid as i thought
limpid agate
We just dont know which of those two events happened first
peak escarp
Reaper was trying to kill Jack
clever silo
Reyes obviously knew him shooting jack would heal itself
dawn halo
Doomfist is a skilled martial artist, it would have taken more than Winston in Primal Rage and brute force to defeat him.
limpid agate
We know theres roughly a year between the Swiss HQ explosion and Overwatch shutting down*
But for the arrest is anyone's guess. Just that it was post-Uprising
peak escarp
it makes sense that the arrest would be after the explosion
rustic light
I don't think Gabe was trying to kill Jack
clever silo
Yeah, it took Geni and Tracer weakening him first, Dresadan
rustic light
Slow him down, maybe, but that? Don't think so
peak escarp
because otherwise they would have put their top agents on arresting Doomfist
dawn halo
And nearly their lives.
limpid agate
@dawn halo The thing is, the anime ends on an ambigious note, where Primal Winston punches Doomfist's gauntlet, and clashes.
And we know Winston won
So this suggests that Winston's punch was stronger than Doomfist's
Or at the very least
On par
rustic light
Sombra also comments on how Doomfist lost and he makes a remark on him being an enhanced gorilla
hot kite
hi
rustic light
"Doomfist: Have you ever been hit by a giant, genetically engineered gorilla? I could arrange it for you..."
So yeah he lost
dawn halo
He lost but probably it could be after a prolonged battle.
iron plume
In the very preceding line, Sombra asks him how it felt to lose
rustic light
"Sombra': Isn't it a little embarrassing to get beaten up by a monkey?"
Yeah he got "beaten up"
dawn halo
He got beaten up, but it was when Winston was BLOODLUSTED.
rustic light
I don't get what you're trying to say
Doomfist wouldn't have lost to Winston in Primal Rage but at the same time he did?
dawn halo
It could be after a prolonged fight which could have leveled skyscrapers when Akande goes all out with the gauntlet.
sacred hamlet
We're still not believing what that kid said right
sacred hamlet
And it's improbable that he's able to
rustic light
At best he put an OR15 into the wall
sacred hamlet
that just sounds like a superhero fairytale
OR-15s are just remodeled versions of OR-14s from the Omnic Crisis aren't they
either way they shouldn't be too though
rustic light
it was based off the OR14
"Enter, the OR15 defense bots! They took the old Idina model from the Crisis and gave them a complete makeover. They kept us safe. For a while."
sacred hamlet
So yeah
Not that strong
And even if we go by gameplay
Orisa can withstand a punch into a wall with ease
rustic light
My point was that his strength there was enough to slam it against the wall
but not really, to break the wall
sacred hamlet
while the OR-15s seem to go off by the moment they touch the wall
But he did break one of the walls in the Airport didn't he
peak escarp
breaking a wall isn't quite leveling a skyscraper
sacred hamlet
Obviously
rustic light
Although
His emote where he grabs a big ass rock out of the ground
I guess he could've broken the wall if he wanted to
sacred hamlet
He just breaks the floor and grabs the debri
clever silo
@junior skiffcode
sacred hamlet
Not that impressive for a guy with a giant glove to be honest
peak escarp
lol
clever silo
@ sky code
sacred hamlet
@peak escarp Is the term "to level" mean literally lift the building or destroy it with ease.
peak escarp
level would be to destroy
sacred hamlet
Most likely can't do both.
I mean
He probably would only be able to lift a small shack
sacred hamlet
Are we talking about money
rustic light
Because Sombra isn't exactly on Talon's side
sacred hamlet
She isn't
But why would she help anyone else but her
Is she trying to start a fire and just giving McCree the match
iron plume
essentially
sacred hamlet
Still weird how close to McCree she seems
rustic light
Not exactly, she probably needs McCree
Sombra could also be working with Jack
they share interests
Then again
Sombra has both their pictures in her room
I follow someone who is super invested in the lore of overwatch and from that I've been convinced that
-Reaper is a double agent
-Moira was already in Talon while being in Blackwatch
-Both McCree and Soldier 76 are working with Sombra
-There is a chance McCree is still working for Gabe, despite in-game interactions, Sombra is the in-between of this
fringe blade
Reaper being a double agent is highely unlikely
sacred hamlet
This all just seems like a bunch of blind speculation if you ask me
But I wouldn't know since I missed some of the discussions
fringe blade
I don't see how and why 76 would ever work with Sombra
rustic light
I just said why, they share interests
mystic frost
deadlifts
twilit yarrow
why is 76 gay
iron plume
he might do it unknowingly
olive estuary
Probably the person has good reasons that are not obvious to us
sacred hamlet
But both McCree & Gabe - McCree and Jack working with Sombra just sound silly to me
rustic light
and they're all based on things given to us
olive estuary
Davi, can you link some of their content? Or where to find it? I'll admit, I'm quite curious
iron plume
McCree clearly works against Talon interests
rustic light
I'll DM you some links
sacred hamlet
And Reaper clearly hates McCree
rustic light
Yeah but Sombra isn't exactly working for Talon interests
Also in-game lines aren't canon
iron plume
he wouldn't work for Reaper
sacred hamlet
Reaper's always shown to hate everyone involved with OW anyways
iron plume
they represent canon feelings
"lines aren't canon" just means the thing that they're talking about isn't necessarily happening
like, the doomfist-hanzo interaction where DF asks him to join
it doesn't mean he ever did
but it does mean that DF would like Hanzo to join, and that Hanzo would refuse
quasi siren
It means talon is recruiting
sacred hamlet
He's saying that it never happened from a canon perspective
fringe blade
Okay, so Reaper + Mcree and 76/Mcree + Sombra sound very unlikely to me
I dont see how that is backed up by anything
sacred hamlet
Those just sound really silly
Reaper and Moira being part of Talon during their work in Blackwatch is possibl
sacred hamlet
But McCree working with the current Reaper and Soldier being in contact with Sombra is ridiculous
iron plume
Both is unlikely
I'd buy either being a double agent or being contacted pre-fall
and then bringing the other in after
but not both
fringe blade
@rustic light You said there is some lore to back this up, would you mind sharing?
rustic light
I'm looking for something but yes I was writing something to you
I like to double check bc I tend to confuse myself
iron plume
post it here, don't do this dm thing
rustic light
It was gonna be here
iron plume
alright
rustic light
McCree is given a tip by someone to go to Route 66, where he knew Echo was being carried in that train.
Last time we see him is in Castillo Mexico, and Sombra's room has not only a picture of him in the room but also he is in her screen
sacred hamlet
That's possible but
clever silo
Sombra has a picture of him in her room?
sacred hamlet
What does that have to do with Gabe & McCree and Sombra & Soldier
fringe blade
Sombra tipping off Mcree is POSSIBLD
iron plume
the mccree-sombra connection is plausible
it's the other ones that are iffy
sacred hamlet
Pretty much
rustic light
Sombra has Soldier's file
with a picture of him young
they both share interests in taking down Lumerico
clever silo
im going to castillo right now
sacred hamlet
Soldier wouldn't work with Sombra
clever silo
Oh Sombra Soldier I think is very likely
sacred hamlet
That just sounds out of character to me
clever silo
I thought you meant Sombra had a picture of Mccree
fringe blade
...?
sacred hamlet
Yet you're suggesting that Soldier would work with a hacker
fringe blade
That literally shows that he is connected to Overwatch
lol
that's it
There is also Ana
rustic light
fringe blade
Maybe ana is working with er?
rustic light
Right here
clever silo
Im there
iron plume
Soldier isn't interested in Lumerico
clever silo
oh yeah
clever silo
ive seen that before
sacred hamlet
And even if he did, Soldier wouldn't work with a hacker.
sacred hamlet
Because Sombra's shady.
Why would Soldier work with someone as shady as her.
When he already hates the Los Muertos.
iron plume
Soldier doesn't have problems with shady
rustic light
You think Overwatch knew who Sombra was?
fringe blade
No offense Davi, but this is pulling at straws A LOT
iron plume
it's possible
rustic light
Do you think Jack knows Sombra worked with los muertos?
iron plume
but there's no actual suggestion towards it
fringe blade
These kinds of theories can be made about anything and anyone
sacred hamlet
I'm saying he probably doesn't like working with the outlaw.
And Sombra and the Los Muertos can be considered that
rustic light
These theories are made from hints left by Chu
fringe blade
Like what
fringe blade
Look @rustic light, there is a picture of Ana by Mcree! Maybe she is secretly a Talon agent! She probably fell in love with Widowmaker after being shot in the eye by her!
I dont see why not?!
Sorry, this is shit-posting, but still.
iron plume
you're not looking for conclusions based on the hints
rustic light
God no offense but I feel the twitter community is MUCH more ahead than you guys
iron plume
you came up with the conclusion
fringe blade
Davi, you aren't sharing ANY evidence at all
iron plume
and then try to push the hints to fit it
fringe blade
Give us proof
Pictures
A grainy photo of a line between Mcree and Overwatch doesn't magically prove all your theories
rustic light
I confuse myself, I have that habit, but I'll try to link to those threads
sacred hamlet
@rustic light What you say sounds straight up like fanfiction
fringe blade
Thank you
iron plume
"the twitter community" is people posting whatever the fuck they want with no concern for it being remotely true
sacred hamlet
And you're not giving us proof to believe in it
rustic light
The twitter Overwatch lore community literally finds stuff that is posted like a month later in r/overwatch but yeah
iron plume
lmao no
sacred hamlet
rOW is ehhh
clever silo
Can you share some way to
sacred hamlet
Not a great source honestly
fringe blade
Guys, just let Davi say what he wants to say and give us his proof about his theories.
fringe blade
Then, what's the point of discussing it?
rustic light
For a lore discussion channel y'all are attacking me as if I didn't say "probably" instead of "yes this is it"
sacred hamlet
This sounds more shitposty than my "shitposts".
rustic light
It's theories.
sacred hamlet
I really wish there'd be more proof
fringe blade
Theories need something to back them up
fringe blade
If there is absolutely no backup, that becomes shit-posting
sacred hamlet
@rustic light We just want evidence lol
rustic light
If you're not gonna be able to discuss things that go out of the direct information then there isn't much more discussion to what is directly given to us
iron plume
and no, it's still not more shitposty than what you pulled Forsen
sacred hamlet
You were literally backing your claims wit hLinks
where are the links
I feel scammazed
rustic light
I said to wait, I can't find this info in 1 minute I need to look through it
clever silo
has to consult the twitter lore community first /s
fringe blade
Guys, stop with this posting. Let him find his evidence.
We can then judge it ourselves.
sacred hamlet
@iron plume I was just questioning the human population from OW's universe for being "entitled".
I was just looking at it from a different perspective
But I'll admit I didn't know about the bombings and near-terrorist attacks done by OW
iron plume
you were doing much more than that, including straight up contradicting the actual lore
sacred hamlet
So I'd take some back
sacred hamlet
My bad then.
rustic light
But then again some you got REALLY aggressive when their ideas are argued against, which honestly I'm not very surprised off, anyone else I've talked to just says "Hrmm yeah could be, I have X idea instead" not "OH YOU'RE WRONG, THIS IS NOT EVIDENCE? COULD BE ANYTHING", so I hope it isn't like this in the usual
sacred hamlet
Davi just find the evidence.
iron plume
you ever gonna get that evidence or nah
sacred hamlet
Davi you don't have to smooth talk your way out of this
rustic light
Honestly it just gives me the vibe that there is a lot "I have to be right and you're wrong" here.
sacred hamlet
Just give us the evidence and we'll consider what you're saying
fringe blade
If there is no evidence, just say so. We will understand.
iron plume
it gives me the vibe that you don't have anything and are just trying to shift it to us being mean
the difference between those vibes is that you can prove mine wrong
I'm not trying to be an ass, i'm just naturally good at it I just like theories that are based in existing things
fringe blade
I am sure I speak for the (most) of us when I say sorry if we offended you @rustic light. On this thread, we like theories and lore discussions on things that are based on some sort of hard evidence.
iron plume
having a headcanon that's not really based on the game is fine too
terse oak
iron plume
but don't claim it's supported by evidence when it isn't
fringe blade
Oh look, Mistah Moderator is here
brisk crow
tropic cipher
🍿
iron plume
duke get out this is a lore nerd cave smh
terse oak
Sorry 
rustic light
Wow ok I never claimed there was EVIDENCE of it being true, I'm saying it's a theory based on small hints
tropic cipher
thats kinda contradicting
sacred hamlet
@iron plume Could you list someone of the incorrect things I mentioned about the Omnic - OW Wars when I was discussing it.
I thought I was basing it off of facts but It seems I was wrong
Legitiamtely curious
@rustic light You claimed to have Links
iron plume
rustic light
Evidence as in, solid evidence, PROVEN theory
fringe blade
You said there was evidence. Don't try to BS us.
iron plume
you haven't shown what it's based on
rustic light
That's not evidence, those are threads to the theories I've read about it
What the hell
sacred hamlet
Threads utilizing evidence
To support their claims
Isn't that the point
The threads should have evidence that you can share with us
terse oak
I feel like we can move past this now, everyone in here makes some valid points, and I have to default to the regulars, because they're fully aware of how lore discussion works
rustic light
I'll be honest I'm getting so confused I need a moment
I shared the McCree pictures in Sombra's room to talk about the McCree-Sombra theory
tropic cipher
this has become an argument about evidence rather lore discussion
fringe blade
Guys, lets forget about it. The claims, with the lack of evidence, were disputed, IMO
iron plume
McCree-Sombra is a theory based them having shown to almost-interact
and McCree finding a "tip"
rustic light
Exactly, a theory, and I wanted to discuss it, I was never claiming it was solid evidence of it being true
iron plume
that one is a theory
rustic light
Y'all got on my case real quickly.
rustic light
I said Soldier and Sombra share interests
iron plume
they're headcanons
sacred hamlet
@tropic cipher We were discussing theories and he introduced 2 of them while claiming to having Links to threads providing evidence taken from actual in-game hints tweeted by Chu.
This is literally the entire situation.
iron plume
Soldier and Sombra are never shown to interact or be in the same room
neat pivot
"Quick, someone check Paris for clues!"
fringe blade
Yea, you did lol
rustic light
I said I've read threads that convinced me
neat pivot
It's the sombra tease all over again
iron plume
and there's nothing Soldier has done that suggests Sombra provided him with information
sacred hamlet
@rustic light Then link us the threads that convinced you.
fringe blade
Quoting you @rustic light 'These theories are made from hints left by Chu'
tropic cipher
I understand but i feel like the argument is going no where so lets move on 😃
sacred hamlet
It really isn't.
iron plume
The actual threads would also be nice to see where you're coming from
and to see their evidence
because right now it's basically "because my friend X said so"
fringe blade
@rustic light, you said 'These theories are made from hints left by Chu'. Where are those hints?
fringe blade
Sorry
My bad
I am honestly very curious at this point, if Chu actually left some sort of hints about that topic.
sacred hamlet
Probably hasn't.
rustic light
Man I was just talking about the McCree picture in Sombra's room, it's obviously a hint of something, the theory can be wrong but that is a hint.
I don't know what is so complex about that.
fringe blade
No, no. Where are the hints left by Mr. Chu?
sacred hamlet
And the thread Links
fringe blade
That isn't a hint.
rustic light
Scoot you're just repeating it to corner me while I'm trying to respond to Resonant about other thing
iron plume
we (well some of us) have agreed on McCree
fringe blade
Yea
rustic light
And you guys are giving 0 seconds before sending another message
fringe blade
Mcree is a possiblity
iron plume
that's reasonable
fringe blade
What about the 76 + Sombra
rustic light
Like I said regarding Sombra, I only said 76 and Sombra share interests, so it's possible they are working together.
iron plume
and Davi you don't have to respond to everything
if you'd rather build your argument or find the links, do that
sacred hamlet
But you claimed to have links to Threads explaining why you think that
rustic light
That and Soldier's file, which means Sombra is investigating him
fringe blade
Yea, me too. I would enjoy looking at that thread
rustic light
It's not reddit. It's not ONE thread, is following the topic by accounts on Twitter that discuss it, sending you the 1 or 2 tweets I can find regarding it will most likely react in "He is wrong" if you haven't been following them on the topic.
For example this one https://twitter.com/SegadorYSoldado/status/1058737605666254853
You get confused because there's obviously context to it and previous discussion about it
iron plume
Okay, for the two arguments you've provided:
Shared interests don't mean they work together. Zarya and D.va both have the goal of defending their respective country against the Omnic danger. That doesn't mean they've worked together or even met.
Sombra investigating Soldier doesn't mean much because Sombra almost definitely investigates everyone. Knowing Things is her thing, in developers' own words. Someone who came into Dorado and stirred up trouble would catch her eye
rustic light
Shared interests don't mean they work together
Right, it's a theory that comes from it since it's not 100% confirmed.
fringe blade
Thats not how theories work
rustic light
Thing is regarding Sombra and Jack is that I'm missing ONE important part in the confusion
iron plume
it's not a hint towards them working together
iron plume
Segador is... questionable
rustic light
Imo Segador is one of the most passionate persons I've seen regarding lore and usually gives good reasons for their discussions
iron plume
that explains why you lifted all of the arguments in this chat so far directly from their twitter feed
rustic light
I follow many accounts
iron plume
he certainly is passionate, but he falls heavily into the conclusions-first-evidence-later trap
like this
all hero teaser plans
provides two that are like that
ignores every other hero teaser that wasn't
rustic light
Plan is the keyword there
iron plume
...no it isn't
do you think Sombra, Ana, Wrecking Ball, Doomfist releases didn't have a plan?
they did, and it was different from that one
then Moira and Ashe had a yet another different one
sacred hamlet
They had ⁉
rustic light
Moira was a blizzcon release
Ashe, Doomfist and Sombra were the "cinematic" releases
fringe blade
Lets just stop this, alright?
iron plume
are you really going to drag this out
that's cherry picking, plain and simple
fitting the data to support your conclusion
fringe blade
This Twitter guy is passionate, I can see he loves Overwatch, yet blindly trusting his is wrong. Thanks for the contribution Davi, lets just forget and move on.
rustic light
I'm not blindly trusting.
sacred hamlet
Gotta agree with Resonant.
iron plume
If Segador is your source, then I'm sorry but you don't have evidence
this isn't from mouth of Chu or any lore material
rustic light
The issue here is that you guys pretend to discuss but often put passive aggressive remarks in their comments, at least what I've seen here
It's about being right, not about open ddiscussion, which is sad
iron plume
This guy is passionate, yes, but he's prone to just straight up making shit up
that's how discussion works
you could've just said it's a headcanon
and saved us all the trouble
if you claim something is true
fringe blade
https://twitter.com/SegadorYSoldado/status/1098997455771774976 Just read this.
iron plume
be prepared to be called out when it isn't
fringe blade
He bases everything on nothing at all.
iron plume
that's part of discussion
sacred hamlet
@iron plume You're right about that, but your passive-aggressiveness really shows at times.
Like Resonant said
Better to drop this.
iron plume
I can be active aggressive instead but I promised Jewvia I'd not
fringe blade
Lets stop this. This is getting nowhere. Lets rather talk about Hero 30.
sacred hamlet
I don't think Jewvia should promote passive-aggressiveness either
The best way to discuss is being polite and civilized
iron plume
well it's better than the alternative
sacred hamlet
No need to shun anyone for saying anything wrong.
sacred hamlet
And this is coming from someone who shittalks people all the time
iron plume
Shunning is not the same thing as calling out
sacred hamlet
I mean you sound like you're talking people down most of the time
instead of correcting them
sacred hamlet
Yeah...
iron plume
no that's just with you
fringe blade
Lets talk about Hero 30
sacred hamlet
Just stop typing Dots after every 2 sentences and pressuring people too much
I think Davi got hit by that
iron plume
if this is another misdirect
sacred hamlet
But yeah Baustit or whatever is his name
iron plume
then Hamid might actually get the chance
discovering pirate artifacts or whatever, get contacted, boom
sacred hamlet
He's most likely not becoming a hero
iron plume
but I don't think it's a full-on brigitte style misdirect
sacred hamlet
I'm sure Hamid will just be a fake trail that will lead to another character
iron plume
one of those is probably the hero
iron plume
efi was only mentioned once and it was directly in orisa's teasers
Hamid was already namedropped twice in different places
he might well still remain an NPC
sacred hamlet
I think it would be better that way
iron plume
but if they bring him in it will be in a bigger role than just leading to one single hero
and Brigitte's was the most obvious misdirect
the first Brig teaser was White Dome
which mentioned Emre and had nothing about Brig
with the only thing related to her was Torb being in hospital and Rein saving his life
which led to the letter
sacred hamlet
With Brig then appearing in it
iron plume
yes
sacred hamlet
And basically being confirmed in the 3rd teaser
iron plume
yes
sacred hamlet
if not for jetpack cat
iron plume
we've never had all the teasers as misdirects
Orisa's brought her up in the second
with the first being about her creator
the others had them from the start in some form
Brig was the only one who wasn't mentioned in the first
sacred hamlet
Wasn't the first Teaser about the destroyed airport
iron plume
I'm talking about the week-before ones
airport was destroyed a bit before then
although it also was obviously a misdirect to doomfist
but he has direct relationship to orisa
sacred hamlet
Which ironically haven't been shown together anywhere aside from a single spray
iron plume
well yes
Orisa is very young
sacred hamlet
Still sounds like they won't be taking this Behemoth > Weakness very far
It's been 2 years already
iron plume
Doomfist has been busy elsewhere
strictly speaking he doesn't have any reason to get back to numbani
sacred hamlet
Where would his current location be right now then
From what I can remember the last time he was shown was in the Costume Comic
Where they raided some place
iron plume
we've seen him in Monaco and Rialto
sacred hamlet
The entirety of 2018 has been completely unrelated to Talon
Where is he hinted at in Rialto
I haven't seen anything related to him there
iron plume
it says it's in venice and it looks like the one on the map
so yes
I doubt it's the only one
fringe blade
wouldnt ow know where talon's hq was
iron plume
OW isn't really in shape to take on an armed talon HQ right now
fringe blade
true
dire timber
@iron plume Seganador's speculation is interesting
I wouldn't be surprised if he was right about Hero 30
though it would be a shame to lose a former Talon medic character like that
vernal gyro
what was his speculation ?
worthy rose
Something involving McCree and S76 both working with Sombra separately, and Reaper is a double agent, and McCree is working with Reaper through Sombra. 0% evidence though.
dawn knot
wait, reaper's double agent?
fringe blade
I wonder
worthy rose
Reaper is not a double agent from anything that we have seen previously
It could be a thing but currently there is nothing backing it up
fringe blade
On the Paris Overwatch Guide page, it says 'The right word might get you into a place you never knew existed.'
worthy rose
and McCree is not working with reaper through sombra
fringe blade
Might that be a teaser for a new paris location?
worthy rose
Sombra is more like the information person everyone goes to for stuff
fringe blade
Or a teaser for something?
rustic light
@vernal gyro Their speculation is that the first teaser was a misdirection on purpose, to make us think Baptiste is the hero but change it up in the second or last teaser, like for example with Brigitte's making us focus on "White Dome" or Orisa's making us focus on "Efi" at first
fringe blade
That might be an interesting thing to happen.
Don't know how possible it is, but certainly quite interesting
rustic light
Something to notice is that although it hasn't happened with all the hero teasers
Both Brigitte and Orisa were the late February- early March releases, just like this one
So it's possible they're trying to do something similar
Blizzcon releases: Sombra, Moira, Ashe, revealed in the big screen
July releases: Ana, Doomfist, Hammond
March release: Orisa, Brigitte, -this hero-
I'm not sure what Ana, Doomfist and Hammond might have in common though, maybe that they were teased via map but one can't know
If the "bait and switch" is accurate and the next hero is presented like Brigitte and Orisa then I think it's safe to say that's how they like to release March heroes
Oh I see how Ana, Doomfist and Hammond were released now, and correct me if I'm wrong because this is all I can find
Ana was ONE tease, Rifle
Doomfist was ONE tease, Prison
Hammond was ONE tease, Short video of Wrecking Ball
So
March is 3 teases
July is 1 tease
November is a Blizzcon reveal
I think that's accurate?
rustic light
There were? I'm having trouble finding other twitter teases
Oh, yeah, but I mean like, the twitter teases
valid shell
For that one avenue of information, I guess that's it.
rustic light
Horizon is a sketchy one though, I wonder if we would've had a special room for Hammond had they not reworked it
Point being, July releases only have 1 tweet prior to reveal, March have 3 and Blizzcon is Blizzcon
valid shell
A tease that coincides with a rework is still a tease.
rustic light
Not saying it isn't
valid shell
Wasn't Ana's Polish hospital records also teased before her release?
rustic light
Oh yeah...I remember that...lemme see if I can find it
OH, we got that from Sombra's decrypting, right?
I guess that was special, I remember it was also revealed in August, after Ana's release
Since it was part of the Sombra ARG
So I guess it wasn't a tease of Ana
https://www.reddit.com/r/Overwatch/comments/4z8yd1/sombra_cluereveal/ Here, August 23, a month after Ana's release
I still can't find any other tease like that for Doomfist/Hammond so I think July heroes having 1 tweet tease is right
real spruce
worthy rose
A lot more
rustic light
Her cinematic was cancelled
worthy rose
what do you mean cancelled? @rustic light
rustic light
They said it was too expensive to make in an interview
Let me find it
Maybe cancelled isn't the word "One was written but it was shelved because it was too expensive to produce, and Jen hasn't heard anything about a future one since."
sacred hamlet
Isn't every Cinematic they make expensive to produce
Might as well spend it on something cool looking
rustic light
Some are more than others
worthy rose
I think, and this might just be me
there isn't that much interest in pharah when compared to the other heroes? Like honestly I'd love to see one on Zen and Mercy
rustic light
The issue with Zenyatta and Mercy imo is that their shorts could never make justice to them, not in that short timeframe at least
sacred hamlet
Mercy is a fan favorite so it's definitely easier to catch attention with it
I'm pretty sure they could
Blizz just has to be time efficient
A lot of stories can be told under 5 minutes
rustic light
This is why McCree was predicted to be the next short months prior and ended up being right
But don't get me wrong, I want a Zenyatta cinematic really bad, it could involve Genji's path to accepting himself too, but then that could switch to being about Genji if not done right
sacred hamlet
Solution would be not spending 2 minutes animating a cowboy eating a pie while bothering with a 1 minute standoff in the same cinematic.
valid shell
So you just want League of Legends cinematics.
sacred hamlet
If you want a Zenyatta cinematic it's better to make him the sole purpose the cinematic exists
valid shell
Just senseless action, smashing unrelated characters together.
sacred hamlet
Genji steals too much of the spotlight anywhere
rustic light
Me?
sacred hamlet
And what Reunion did for most of its duration was stall with great visuals and nothing else.
valid shell
That's the whole genre.
sacred hamlet
Yeah, the mexican standoff sure
But McCree eating pie for 2 minutes isn't excusable
It's great visually but it's definitely a waste of time
limpid agate
It wasnt McCree eating a pie for 2 minutes
sacred hamlet
Most of it was
limpid agate
What the fuck are you talking about
15 seconds were devoted to McCree's pie
Most of which was
Waiting for a train to derail in the background
sacred hamlet
2 minutes spent in the bar and 1 minute staring at eachother
valid shell
Welcome to Westerns.
sacred hamlet
I don't literally mean the 2 minutes is just showing him eating pie
The cinematic goes all over the bar setting the mood
limpid agate
Setting the mood that the diner was suddenly abandoned
Coffee still brewing
Dishes dirty
Phone call was just amde
sacred hamlet
But it could definitely have been ignored
I'm sorry but how does those matter
Honest question
sacred hamlet
I know
valid shell
How does setup and staging matter in a video?
sacred hamlet
My point is that if Blizzard wants to tell a satisfying story of Zen or Mercy in less than 5-8 minutes
They shouldn't waste too much time roaming around in a single place
limpid agate
You wouldnt like anything they could possibly pump out
rustic light
When you make cinematics, you have to follow some storyboard basics, I think they did it right
limpid agate
Why do you waste time bringing your opinion here
sacred hamlet
It worked for Reunions because it's McCree and it fits the setting
peak escarp
the empty diner could be because McCree scared everyone off, because he didn't want any collateral damage
valid shell
So you want Zenyatta's cinematic to be a montage of him doing kung fu?
limpid agate
Just leave the channel.
valid shell
Because it's not going to be.
sacred hamlet
I don't get why you're twisting my words
rustic light
Hey guys let's calm down
sacred hamlet
A guy said "Well if they were to make a cinematic about Mercy and Zen, a small amount of time wouldn't do them justice"
That's why I'm suggesting a faster pace with smoother transitions
worthy rose
To be honest, I imagine a zen cinematic being like him wandering and coming to terms with freedom and helping people and being discriminated against and moved on to find enlightenment with his fellow omnics and also would be good characterization for Mandatta cause then his death will hold more emotional impact
valid shell
I don't think you know what smooth transitions are.
rustic light
A Mercy short wouldn't really show her fighting, I think? It goes against the character
sacred hamlet
It depends on how they want to make the cinematic
limpid agate
She's a pacifist. What are you expecting
Her going into a fight healing Reinhardt and rezzing Genji?
sacred hamlet
Combat like For Honor or Mei's one whichis much sslower
vernal gyro
@rustic light thx
rustic light
yw
vernal gyro
maybe this time they dont do a misdirection tho
valid shell
Wuh
peak escarp
I found the pacing on most the shorts to be good
limpid agate
You're not expressing things clearly
peak escarp
Shooting Star had awkward pacing though
rustic light
Yeah I like the shorts, they don't have to have fighting all the way to be good
vernal gyro
i liked shooting star idk why most ppl hate it
rustic light
Bastion for example
peak escarp
I liked it
valid shell
Shooting Star is an example of a slow setup and explosive combat done wrong. Reunion is it done right.
peak escarp
it just felt rushed
ornate wigeon
I have an idea, everyone just drop it and leave each other alone.
sacred hamlet
Doesn't work like that around here
limpid agate
The shorts I felt that were not good were Hero and Shooting Star, which felt irrelevant to Jack and Rushed.
peak escarp
Hana's sudden need to ask for help was too sudden
vernal gyro
oh yea hero was kinda generic
limpid agate
Then solved it herself in <5 seconds
rustic light
They were cute but yeah, it needed more time
limpid agate
Her asking for help was rushed, and then the solution was rushed further
sacred hamlet
it's not supposed to be that meaningful
valid shell
I've always wondered why people call D.Va "Hana" more than any other hero. Nobody says Satya, or Olivia, or Jamison.
rustic light
This is why Zenyatta and Mercy are harder
They are much more complex regarding that than S76 and DVA
peak escarp
if Dae-hyun had come up with the idea of blowing the core, her asking for help would have made sense
limpid agate
Sym/Sombra/Junkrat are shorter than SatYA, OliVIA, and JamiSON
While D.Va/Hana are the same lenght
Also, no period in Hana
So its easier to type
limpid agate
Its also part of why Hammond is more popular than Wrecking BALL
sacred hamlet
Could always type Dva and be done with it
limpid agate
Caps are unclear but I meant them to emphasize more syllables
Its also why you see people write
Jack and Reyes
Instead of Morrison and Reyes or Jack and Gabriel
peak escarp
I tend to use heroes proper name when talking about their lore
or Jack/Gabe to mean them before the fall
sacred hamlet
To be honest Jesse feels easier than McCree
Most people probably don't recognize Jesse as McCree though
rustic light
I think my favorite name is Lena
worthy rose
People always say mccree in the game, even when he was in blackwatch
peak escarp
the only ones who call him Jesse are Pharah, Ashe and Moira
and Reyes during Retribution
Pharah and Ashe make sense because they were close - Ashe founded Deadlock with him and Fareeha knew him from when she visited Overwatch
Moira probably does it to annoy him
rustic light
You could say Ashe was family
peak escarp
they were both a sort of family
rustic light
and judging by the toy guns line, McCree was probably like a big bro to Pharah
slow goblet
I actually love Shooting Star tbh. I can understand why people dislike it, but it's my favourite short...
rustic light
so it makes sense
peak escarp
family is a big theme in OW
rustic light
IT IS, I love it
peak escarp
even with the Cuerva letter, Cuerva sees Baptista as part of their squad, and hopes that they don't have to kill him
worthy rose
Is it? I always thought it was "Fight for the future cause this is a world worth saving" and my personal favorite "The world could always use more heroes." And personally the fact that on lijang tower they have a tribute to a fan who died doing something heroic before the game got launched does make me love the world and the game so much more
peak escarp
I said it's a theme
rustic light
Overwatch is about hope but it has a lot of family themes
worthy rose
true thanks doc
sorry
i'm emotional
shanghai dragons just won their first game
and like i'm all emotional and happy
worthy rose
Makes me feel bad for Moira
Since she doesn't really have one or a home from her voice lines
sacred hamlet
By home you mean she doesn't have a family, right.
'Cause even if that's the case I don't think she cares
rustic light
Moira just goes with whoever is convenient to her
worthy rose
I mean like both; She has a subtle voice line about oasis "This is my home... as much as any other." Implying she doesn't really have a "home" in the warm sense
sacred hamlet
Is that where she was born
worthy rose
no
sacred hamlet
Lived, lives
peak escarp
no
peak escarp
she's from Ireland
sacred hamlet
And Oasis is known for being super high tech so she feels home there.
For the advancements of humanity and all
worthy rose
but she doesn't feel "home" it's a place she lives but it's not a "home"
sacred hamlet
So by home it means... she literally just lives there.
Is that supposed to be the line's purpose.
Or maybe she doesn't like it that much but stands it because she has no other place.
worthy rose
Like there's the emotional connotation of the word "Home" but I don't think Moira has the warm feelings of home so I think u hit the nail on the head about having no other place. It's just speculation since tone is a much harder thing especially with someone who is characterized as very logical and driven with no real regard for conventional rules
limpid agate
!!loreHeroes moira
twilit nacelleBOT
To learn more, please visit https://playoverwatch.com/en-us/heroes/moira#story
limpid agate
They talk about her link to Oasis in her bio
sacred hamlet
So yeah, basically nowhere to go or work after her career was stained
So she sticks to Oasis both for being a helping hand an the only place where she fits
If there's someone I love in OW other than Hammond and Torb, is definitely Moira
Really well executed character
Makes Ashe's Blizzcon reveal look bad to be honest
If not for the top budget cinematic
peak escarp
other people complain that Moira stole everything that made Mercy "interesting" (except that none of those things were Mercy's in the first place)
rustic light
Moira is definitely one of Chu's favorite characters
Blizzcon 2017 had him so happy about her
sacred hamlet
She stole her OW uniform and the personality that she never had
Too bad
Moira is definitely a charm
peak escarp
I wouldn't want her to be my healer, but she'd be interesting to talk to
if we get Baptiste, we'll finally have another support who is a trained medical professional
rustic light
Have you noticed every Talon archives skin has some sort of "talon" in there?
worthy rose
I personally think Moira get's a lot of hate and a good chunk of it is undeserved
like yea she isn't bound by conventional things but she is still human
worthy rose
Yea but that doesn't mean she's heartless. Everyone has things they care about and feelings unless they're trying to make her a complete and total Psychopath which I don't think they're trying to do
peak escarp
she seems to care about Reyes's condition, although I don't know if that's because she wants results or because she genuinely cares about him
rustic light
I'd say results
peak escarp
maybe both?
rustic light
It's a "headcanon" that Moira was already in Talon prior to joining BW or in middle of it
rustic light
https://twitter.com/SegadorYSoldado/status/1079026450315894786 I like this detail
"The 3 main BW skins have logos referencing the char's affiliations with OTHER groups: Gabe with OW, McCree with Deadlock, Genji with "nin". BW Moira does not. This is because her design ACTUALLY references Talon. Claws are a recurring design motif for Talon pre- and post-Fall."
limpid agate
Neat
limpid agate
I dont like their comment about the quote meaning her uniform
Especially with how condescendingly he put the loose speculation
But the idea in the specific linked comment is interesting
peak escarp
their theories are good but they make too many assumptions and state too many things as fact that are just speculation
plus they push their ship far too hard
rustic light
R76?
peak escarp
yes
rustic light
I mean I think they warn you that it's like that
peak escarp
although any ship is bad
limpid agate
No it didnt
It made it less valid
Jack has spent the past ~30 years alone with just allies and friends
Reyes made a family
And both are enemies in the present
worthy rose
^ I don't think Chu want's a ship between jack and reaper together as like former lovers turned venomous especially since reaper has a family
rustic light
It's kinda funny Gabe only has a picture of Jack in his office though, you'd think he'd have his family there instead
worthy rose
pic?
limpid agate
What office
worthy rose
or like frame of reference so I can get things in context
limpid agate
Have we seen Reyes' office?
rustic light
https://i.imgur.com/wyyHZmc.jpg isn't this his office? I'm not sure but I think Chu confirmed in a tweet, MIGHT be wrong though so I have to look for it, take it with salt
peak escarp
it's a game screencap
vestal sphinx
oooohhh a Moira discussion
rustic light
It's still a picture of Jack, not a random screencap of any part in Gibraltar, I'm not exactly a r76 shipper but I can see that
worthy rose
not buying it personally mainly cause the idea of reaper and jack hate eachother cause they had an intimate relationship gone bad isn't good for me personally
peak escarp
anyway, about the idea that Sombra could be providing Jack with the information he needs to track Reaper
rustic light
I forgot to mention it earlier but that also came from the fact that S76 ha-
YES
THAT
the volskaya cam recording, available to sombra
worthy rose
that's more on the sombra conspiracy than jack keeping tabs on an ex
peak escarp
in Bastet Ana thinks to herself that Jack isn't the type to do espionage himself, so that rules out him digging it up
rustic light
We changed the topic to the providing of info
not about keeping tabs on an ex
EXACTLY
peak escarp
those scenes are from Infiltration, but in-universe they could be explained as the security footage from Volskaya Industries during the attack
worthy rose
so like
rustic light
It's very likely Sombra gave that info to Jack
peak escarp
I don't think Volskaya's security footage would be made public
worthy rose
would it be weird to think that Jack just has computers?
peak escarp
and Sombra already had access to their system
worthy rose
ahhhhhh gotchy thanks doc
fringe blade
And?
peak escarp
the background is the satellite footage, which definitely came from Sombra
fringe blade
True
rustic light
This is what I said I was forgetting earlier
fringe blade
How is the satellite footage important, I am confused
worthy rose
it shows that this info belongs to a certain person
jack wouldn't have access
sombra does
so jack having it
means sombra gave it
rustic light
and Ana makes a remark on it
peak escarp
Sombra hacked into the satellite to get images so Reaper and Widowmaker could get in
rustic light
by implying someone gave it to him
worthy rose
^
rustic light
Bastet
peak escarp
it's mentioned in Bastet and seen on the Necropolis map
rustic light
teased when necropolis was added
peak escarp
now, I'm not saying it confirms anything - Sombra could have leaked these images onto the dark web and Jack could have dug them up there
worthy rose
It was in the animation, Infiltration showing Sombra had it, The bastet sort story was the thing that basically said "Jack got this info from someone", and the game itself shows "this is info that jack and or Ana have"
peak escarp
but this does make the idea of Sombra feeding Jack information plausible
fringe blade
It's possible. I mean, it doesn't mean anyway that he got it directly from Sombra, right?
worthy rose
there's an absurd amount of clues on the maps in the game
rustic light
I mean, is it really a reach?
worthy rose
possible
peak escarp
she definitely knows who Jack is
worthy rose
^
fringe blade
For sure
worthy rose
she may not have come to him as
fringe blade
She has his file, right?
peak escarp
Jack might not even know he's getting info from Sombra
rustic light
even Sombra has Jack files yeah
worthy rose
"Yea I'm sombra, talon worker, I got some info for u if ur interested"
peak escarp
or that Sombra works with Talon
worthy rose
she may have given to him anonymously
fringe blade
Jack might not be getting it directly from Sombra
worthy rose
and just like pulled his strings by predicting his actions
peak escarp
also, someone tipped him off about Shrike
rustic light
I really doubt anyone ever found out about Sombra back before the fall
peak escarp
why else would he go to Egypt on the suspicion that this masked vigilante was his former 2ic?
fringe blade
Hmm
Might've been a one-time thing?
I mean, if you are going on an op that is potentially dangerous, chances are, you will need intel, and that intel might not come from somewhere clean.
Theoretically/
I don't know what he needed the satellite for, anyway
rustic light
Jack would be twice now I think? McCree also can't reunite with the others because he has something to do
worthy rose
yea but it fits into Sombra's M.O where she'll be pulling the strings, causing events to happen to lure out the "Sombra Conspiracy/Illuminati"
it's like a weird macro version of chess
she makes moves in hoping to see people respond
fringe blade
Certainly. Sombra's lore/intentions aren't exactly clear ATM
worthy rose
and lure out whoever is in the sombra illuminati conspiracy there
fringe blade
I hope this new character will reveal something about her
fringe blade
Why does she do what she does?
Why does she sell her info/give her info to the people she does?
What is her endgame, overall
worthy rose
To not be controlled or weak ever again and never at anyone's mercy.
rustic light
Her objective is to find out who is behind the strings.
she uses everyone else for that
worthy rose
Her endgame "Find the people who pulled the strings and oust them, being queen of the world and make sure no one can stop her from doing anything she wants"
Zen
very much
zen
lucio too but Zen has only two things
- Genji's teacher
- Omnic monk who found enlightenment
Lucio is a revolutionary of brazil who fought against vishkar which might be a shady
honestly Sombra being the "anonymous" of the Overwatch world and ousting people and starting conflict or revealing shady shit to force the hands of the "Sombra Conspiracy" makes a lot of sense
!!loreHeroes Sombra
twilit nacelleBOT
To learn more, please visit https://playoverwatch.com/en-us/heroes/Sombra#story
peak escarp
capital letters don't work
twilit nacelleBOT
To learn more, please visit https://playoverwatch.com/en-us/heroes/sombra#story
worthy rose
!!lorelist
twilit nacelleBOT
Here is a list of all #lore-discussion specific tags:
loreComics -> List of comics
loreShorts -> List of shorts
loreText -> List of lore text articles
loreHeroes [heroName] -> List of hero bios [Or a specific hero bio]
loreWiki [pageName] -> Link to Overwatch Wiki [or a specific page]
loreOnly [userName] -> A warning so you don't NEED to ping staff
!!lorewiki sombra conspiracy
twilit nacelleBOT
For more information about the game, please refer to the wiki: https://overwatch.gamepedia.com/sombra
worthy rose
lmao firefox
weird it's not on the scroll wheel on the side
not on the scroll list
huh
didn't know this
@peak escarp did u know about this
Wouldn't this cement the Sombra and Soldier thing being connected
peak escarp
I forgot about that
rustic light
Lmao that just confirms it for me
I'll remember to send both this and the necropolis screens next time someone tells me there is no evidence for it
Honestly
I'm surprised these two werent known information in a lore discussion-focused chat
peak escarp
I don't look at the Searching comic that often
so I forgot about it
but I always knew Soldier had to have an informant
rustic light
I just wish you were here before
peak escarp
sorry, I was at work
rustic light
I swear I kept being pinged whenever I wanted to say something
"link us" every 2 seconds
peak escarp
I thought Party and them knew I had arguments for it
the idea that McCree is working with Reaper through Sombra is utter garbage though
McCree would not work with Talon
worthy rose
I really don't like it
like at all
I think his and reaper's relationship went sour
peak escarp
McCree doesn't even know Reaper is Reyes
rustic light
personally I don't like it either
peak escarp
he thinks Reyes died
worthy rose
especially the venomous voice lines between the two
rustic light
but I wanted to see what the chat would say, didn't think it would be so aggressive though
worthy rose
"You weren't given those guns to treat them like trash"
something like that from McCree
rustic light
I'm in other lore chats and I have to say this one, at least today, showed me a lot of "you're wrong I'm right" people
which is just, a bad sign for actual discussion
worthy rose
Do we know what the relationship between Sombra and Alejandra's family bakery is?
cause this makes me skeptical
peak escarp
only speculation
worthy rose
peak escarp
one theory is that she was adopted by them
Zayra says she knows people were covering for Sombra
the bakery owner was likely lying
worthy rose
and would you think Alejandra revealing it just didn't know people were covering?
rustic light
God how could I forget another detail to the Sombra Soldier thing
Soldier was in Mexico right before going to Egypt
peak escarp
or her desire to be a hero surpassed her understanding of the situation
rustic light
It was an Overwatch Watchpoint, don't remember the name
rustic light
"he stole some Overwatch tech. This included Watchpoint: Grand Mesa, where he stole a pulse rifle"
worthy rose
I was gonna ask cause like it's strange for me personally like why would he go to mexico in the first place
peak escarp
peak escarp
they have Soldier's file
rustic light
peak escarp
not Jack's
worthy rose
gotcha
peak escarp
Soldier = Jack Morrison is like the worst kept secret in the OWU
worthy rose
think winston and tracer are even aware of him?
rustic light
Winston might
peak escarp
it's a theory everyone believes in
rustic light
Winston has an "what if" interaction
and he does seem like he recognizes him
Soldier: 76: Think you can do my job, do you...
Winston: Someone has to.
peak escarp
that's a good question
I wonder what the Overwatch crew think about the theory that Soldier is Jack
rustic light
I'm not sure Winston would tell them
Reinhardt knows about Ana though so I think he eventually would find out, but that's just a what if
worthy rose