I mean, thats why you have the Punch
#lore-discussion
fringe blade
limpid agate
Because gameplay != lore
fringe blade
Okay, so lets come to a conclusion - Strongest character and the most OP character
shy hollow
Bridget
limpid agate
The contenders for the most powerful are:
Orisa, Winston, Symmetra, Reaper
fringe blade
I mean, physical strength
limpid agate
Then Orisa and Winston
fringe blade
Orisa does have fortify
shy hollow
Like Bridget can literally stun you and hit you with the thing
limpid agate
Orisa can stop a car with one arm. Winston can outpunch the Doomfist Gauntlet
shy hollow
And she self heals as she smacks you
shy hollow
Infinity gauntlet?
shy hollow
Anyways Winston did beat doomfist
limpid agate
Orisa and Winston are significantly more powerful
shy hollow
Didn't orisa lose to doomfost?
shy hollow
The most op is Bridget
twilit nacelleBOT
Shitposting will result in a loss of access.
shy hollow
Oh
fringe blade
How was that shitposting?
shy hollow
?
limpid agate
He's memeing about gameplay
fringe blade
Oh
shy hollow
All I said that Bridget is op
fringe blade
OP means like stronger than a human/non-human thing should be
shy hollow
Ohh
limpid agate
The contenders for the most "OP" are:
Orisa, Winston, Symmetra, Reaper
fringe blade
Winston isn't that OP
shy hollow
I say symmetra then
fringe blade
I mean, that isn't really OP though, is it?
limpid agate
outpunching the Doomfist gauntlet is very OP
fringe blade
How does Primal Rage even work
fringe blade
Okay, except for Winston, who do you think is OP
fringe blade
How far can Symmetra's abilitites go
limpid agate
Exactly
No idea
But what we do know is very powerful
She can create entire city systems in seconds out of thin air
Can make teleporters
fringe blade
Yea
fringe blade
I really don't like how Reaper's abilites fit into the lore
peak escarp
why not?
fringe blade
I find it hard to believe that medicine could've jumped that far in like 20-ish years?
He can literally turn into smoke and back again
peak escarp
60 years
worthy rose
it's not medicine
fringe blade
Reyes is like 60-ish, right?
worthy rose
he's like in his 70s i believe
worthy rose
wow i'm late mb
fringe blade
Yea, so when was Reyes turned into Reaper
When we see him in uprising, he is an old ass man
worthy rose
assumingly after the Swiss HQ fell or just slightly before then
peak escarp
roughly 8 years before OW's present day
he gained his wraith powers when Moira began working on him
peak escarp
adopting the Reaper persona was just a formality - he had those powers before Overwatch fell
worthy rose
that's more the super solider program doing that
keen osprey
nah
worthy rose
It is worth mentioning that medicine has progressed
fringe blade
still, even in like 45-ish years, I don't understand how a person can physically turn into smoke, and TURN BACK into human
wraith zealot
moiras experiments made him gain some of his powers
keen osprey
true
peak escarp
the super soldier program gave him regeneration and superhuman strength/agility
keen osprey
posibly
peak escarp
Moira gave him the wraith stuff
fringe blade
Yea, but how
fringe blade
Still
wraith zealot
could be
peak escarp
but Jack ages rapidly after the fall, so who knows
fringe blade
So he became Reaper 50-ish years into the future
peak escarp
yes
fringe blade
So a person gains the ability to move his atoms from one place to another and not create a black hole or get killed in 50-ish years?
peak escarp
it's sci-fi
doesn't have to make perfect sense
only vague sense
being able to fast forward and rewind your own timeline isn't realistic either
fringe blade
A lot of things DO make sense, though. I do agree that some stuff doesn't make sense and doesn't have to, but when a whole character is absolutely impossible makes me wonder
peak escarp
the most realistic thing about OW is the omnics imo
fringe blade
When you think about it though, there are lots of characters that don't make any senes
sense*
peak escarp
we're well on our way to AI that can learn and humanoid robots and synthetic life forms
fringe blade
Like how can Sombra teleport and become invisible
I mean, I get the message when she goes invisible, its like she 'goes off the grid'
Its a good metaphor
peak escarp
there are experiments with "invisibility cloaks" in various militaries
fringe blade
I mean, that is closer, but she can GO THROUGH enemies while invisible
peak escarp
these are potential technologies that people are actively working on right now
Sombra can't go through people while invisible
wraith zealot
ı dont think she can go through
peak escarp
she bumps against them
fringe blade
Really?
peak escarp
they see her
wraith zealot
which if u bump they see u
peak escarp
at least, they do in game - it hasn't really come up in the shorts
wraith zealot
do we knwo she goes invisible in the cinematic
fringe blade
Yea?
wraith zealot
let me check infiltration
worthy rose
yes, she disappears after talking with volskaya
fringe blade
with volskaya
peak escarp
she does go invisible in Infiltration, but she doesn't bump into anyone or walk through them
she just appears in the room
worthy rose
tp's after
wraith zealot
yea she does
fringe blade
My bad, she does actually bump them
peak escarp
if you're going to point out bad science, why not go for the easy example
Widowmaker
slowing down someone's heart to make them a better sniper is absolute garbage
peak escarp
sure poor circulation will make you blue, but you'd also get winded easily, feel faint all the time and not really be able to concentrate
wraith zealot
heart beat and breating 2 different things
worthy rose
and there's no reason for your heart to beat fast with slow breathing
peak escarp
if anything it would make you breathe heavier
wraith zealot
yea
wraith zealot
there is also the blue part
worthy rose
yes, most BS thing ever
wraith zealot
or purple to be exact
peak escarp
Lucio healing with music isn't confirmed in the lore
worthy rose
both blue skin and music healing
wraith zealot
zens healing aswell
peak escarp
although there are modern studies about the healing effect of music/vibrations
wraith zealot
and discord
peak escarp
Zen's discord/harmony orbs are non-canon
wraith zealot
do we actually know mercies staff heals?
worthy rose
yes
peak escarp
she carries it with her in the Uprising comic
worthy rose
she'd be a pretty pointless medic if it didn't heal
fringe blade
How does her Guardian Angel work
worthy rose
Probably some device on each team member
peak escarp
worthy rose
+BS hardlight rocket wings
wraith zealot
it could be actually stabing the guy with the needle part of her staff in there
since we can see a liquid in it
peak escarp
her wings probably have some form of propulsion in them
she probably flies around more like her Valkyrie mode
worthy rose
yes
fringe blade
But how does she fly
worthy rose
rocket wing things
worthy rose
It's like trying to figure out what gets taken along when Tracer blinks
wraith zealot
its her jet pack
worthy rose
Don't think too hard
fringe blade
How does Junkrat control tire
wraith zealot
that could be same way you control a toy car with a controller
fringe blade
But it can still be used when he dies
peak escarp
Tracer can probably take along anything she's touching
wraith zealot
thats ingame thing
worthy rose
he won't die
fringe blade
That's true
worthy rose
@peak escarp stands on floor
wraith zealot
shoes
fringe blade
I think that the most 'normal' and not 'bs' character is Mcree
peak escarp
McCree is pretty ordinary
fringe blade
Exactly
peak escarp
even with the robo-arm
wraith zealot
well he is your clint eastwood guy
fringe blade
He just rolls and throws a grenade
peak escarp
Hanzo is pretty ordinary . . . for a trained assassin
wraith zealot
ashe is even more fitting
peak escarp
Brigitte is ordinary
worthy rose
not really
fringe blade
He can double-jump mid air
peak escarp
she's just a mechanic who wears armor
worthy rose
hardlight shield
limpid agate
Hanzo cannot double jump
peak escarp
hardlight is normal for them
limpid agate
Gameplay != Lore
worthy rose
also, flag that gives armor
limpid agate
The flag does not give armor
peak escarp
also not lore
limpid agate
Gameplay != Lore
peak escarp
her in-game healing is most likely just an abstraction of her ability to inspire those around her to fight harder or push through the pain
wraith zealot
ı think hanzo is the most ordinary character when you look at it
worthy rose
no
peak escarp
and her armor packs represent her first-aid knowledge patching up Reinhardt
wraith zealot
apart from that dragon thing
which is never explained how it works
there is a bit of supernatural in OW ı guess
wraith zealot
hardlight?
limpid agate
There is no supernatural in Overwatch
peak escarp
it resembles hardlight projections
worthy rose
nanites
peak escarp
though how exactly it works is still a mystery
worthy rose
even the iris 😦
limpid agate
Omnic Energies
worthy rose
wait wut
worthy rose
but tranquility?
worthy rose
probably not canon?
limpid agate
And its the same entity that saw Sombra
peak escarp
yeah, that's a good theory
limpid agate
And both Sombra and the Shambali misunderstood what it was
One took it to be the mastermind of the world, the other a god.
worthy rose
Illuminati confirmed!
peak escarp
based on his lore, Lucio has the least reason of any of the support heroes to be a support
peak escarp
he's a DJ and a freedom fighter - nothing about that says healer
wraith zealot
oh no not about lucio
worthy rose
he has supportive capabilities
wraith zealot
ı was saying iris
limpid agate
Iris could be many things
peak escarp
at best, he inspires people the same way Brigitte does
worthy rose
I suspect that it might be a less-evil god AI
limpid agate
Which was post-crisis.
fringe blade
Where does Reaper get all of his shotguns from
limpid agate
Hanzo didnt kill anyone
wraith zealot
ok KOing them
limpid agate
@fringe blade Behind his back
BUT
We found out in Bastet
They are more than just shotguns
worthy rose
no, his coat is fifth-dimensional
limpid agate
Their ammuntion was modified by Moira
wraith zealot
why does hanzo attack shimada
limpid agate
Presumeably, the entire weapon was.
peak escarp
they have the same technology in them as Reaper has in his body
wraith zealot
ı dont get that
limpid agate
@wraith zealot He left the Shimada ages ago
When he "killed" Genji
He felt that he brought shame to himself
And left the clan
That was >8 years ago
valid shell
@wraith zealot why tf are your I's so weird
limpid agate
Turkish probably
wraith zealot
some languages have different i,ı s
valid shell
A different language than American, the tongue our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ spoke?
wraith zealot
perhaps
fringe blade
k
wraith zealot
ı just realised
when genji comes to the hanzo in the cinematic
he says 'you are bold to come to shimada castle, the den of your enemies'
fringe blade
Genji just disappears at the end of the short
wraith zealot
so hanzo is actually enemy of shiamda clan ?
limpid agate
Hanzo left the clan. He is a deserter. They apparently sent assassins after him.
peak escarp
it's a common thing in gangs or crime families (Ashe even says it when getting an elim on McCree)
"There's only one way you get to leave the gang . . . "
fringe blade
Wasn't he the head of the clan though
limpid agate
He was going to be
peak escarp
technically, but the clan elders pulled the strings
fringe blade
Also, how does Genji disappear at the end of the short
fringe blade
So he disappears in a cloud of purple smoke
I mean
i guess a smoke bomb of sorts makes sense
What significant lore did 'Shooting Star' provide?
wraith zealot
ı love that dragons story in the cinematic
fringe blade
Its always nice to see a character's background, sure, but still.
wraith zealot
it gave us a lot about dva's personality
limpid agate
Character and world building
Not plot
It expanded the Gwisin and Meka, and set up a potential link between Meka/Casino and Max/Talon
fringe blade
I just thought that most shorts were somehow connected to Overwatch directly
this one wasn't
limpid agate
Neither was Hero
Or Infiltration
Especially not Infiltration.
Or The Last Bastion
fringe blade
By the way
wraith zealot
ı wonder where bastion was stationed during war
fringe blade
Does the girl in Hero hold any significance?
wraith zealot
the hero one
fringe blade
Or is she just a plot device?
peak escarp
she was also in the comic Searching
it's implied that she knew Sombra's real name
and told Zarya
wraith zealot
also she might be the connection between soldier 76 and sombra in a way
since soldier also knows sombra
limpid agate
Does he?
peak escarp
Alejandra could have told Sombra about the guy who saved her
Soldier had to get his information from someone, and he's got images on his computer that could only have come from Sombra
wraith zealot
one of the comics he says something about her ı believe let me check
peak escarp
peak escarp
and I didn't notice it when I made that image, but the satellite image of Volskaya is in the background as well
which Sombra had access to
fringe blade
I want some events to happen in canada
peak escarp
in Bastet Ana notes that Jack wasn't the type to do this sort of research on his own
it's not confirmation that Jack got his info from Sombra, but it's a strong hint
wraith zealot
old soldiers comic
page 4
ım not sure if its soldier tho
ı thought it was soldier when ı first read it
but now sure
wraith zealot
oh ok
peak escarp
Soldier is listening to the comms he stole from one of the grunts at Hakim's compound
wraith zealot
ı wasnt sure
peak escarp
it's also suspected by many people that McCree got the info about Echo from Sombra - he did cross her path in Reflections when he was in Castillo
although Reflections was after, so that could be the "business" he was attending to at the end of Reunion
it fits Sombra's character to be giving information to both sides, maybe playing them against each other
peak escarp
could be
Winston's words before the 2-page spread makes me think that's what everyone's up to around the end of the year though
and Reunion seems like summer
Rein and Torb's scene is definitely around Christmas
Pharah is having dinner with her dad while the world juniors play in the background, so that's late December too
it's snowing at Gerard's grave, so it's winter (in France? idk where he might have been buried)
everything else seems to be set in December/around Christmas, so it's logical to assume the scene with McCree and Sombra is also at the end of the year
and Hanzo is buying a Christmas cake, so that's one more
(I've put far too much thought into this)
timeline stuff is my jam
tawny patio
Timeline stuff is weird
But
I wouldn’t call it unlikely that Sombra would be working both sides
Especially when she’s already done it before, Sombra holds no loyalties and is only looking out for her own interests 
being an info broker places her in a position of power to both sides
AND
It makes her arguably one of the most important characters story wise in the long term
olive magnet
But that doesn't mean connect Sombra to every story
weary turtle
"Helix will have a weakness. They DONT KNOW what they're protecting" (from the old soldiers comic too) i tought of anubis but "dont know"?
Right after the frame Doctor_Six linked
peak escarp
I think the implication is that they know it's Anubis but they don't know Anubis's full potential/abilities
weary turtle
Like taking over the omniums?
wintry zealot
regal coyote
@peak escarp does it mean this happens before pharah's comic?
i mean, obvously after pharah they DO KNOW what it is
kinda obvious after the whole "turn all o,mnic into zombie omnic of death" plays out
now they say anu was part of the infrastructure of cairo
my theory is that cairo system used to be using submitted omnic for work and overwatch instead fucks the system up by subdueing the illian and the anu system, but without providing a solution or any after care.
hence bad thigns happen in the form of a new villian overlord, and broken social city system
so it is much much worse than before.
not care about the omnics, but for the humans it is definitely much worse
frosty shell
it's not that easy to understand what you're saying but you're probably somewhat right
Pharah saying Anubis was quarantined after the Crisis doesn't seem to fit what is said in Bastet
But then again, neither does the "god program" statement
frosty shell
Which makes me think that what Pharah's team was told about Anubis was intentionally somewhat inaccurate
peak escarp
they just don't know the full extent of its capabilities, or what it can really do
the fact that Pharah refers to Anubis by a colloquialism ("god program") makes me think she heard stories about it from Overwatch/Ana before the fall
frosty shell
But she says it was quarantined "after the Crisis" while Bastet says Overwatch shut it down 10 years ago
Granted, that is technically after the Crisis but Pharah's wording suggests immediately after
peak escarp
both are still correct
frosty shell
However, Overwatch is said to have shut down "the Anubis project" suggesting that Anubis was being used for some purpose 10 years ago and not just being quarantined
The damage Overwatch did to Cairo could've been destroying all of its computing infrastructure
Perhaps they pulled off some sort of maneuver in which they forced Anubis to control way too many computers at once and then destroyed all the computers
limpid agate
Pharah saying Anubis was quarantined after the Crisis doesn't seem to fit what is said in Bastet
I think it's more of a matter of
Still post crisis, but they moved it much later
peak escarp
Mission Statement was still a beta release, so I think newer information can be used to clarify
dense estuary
shutting down the project is bigger than securing the AI. Id say shutting it down means they captured or neutralized the people building Anubis and then locked the facility up tight.
severed his network links, etc
after all containment of an AI probably is not horribly hard, If it has no wireless links directly at its core processing center. snip snip the fiber lines.
(might just need to get through waves of killbots)
worthy rose
It would make sense if the Anubis project was trying to use it for something, but Anubis had existed before.
frosty shell
I guess, though that still seems like a stupid idea
peak escarp
your evidence?
normal copper
peak escarp
yep
twilit nacelleBOT
To learn more, please visit https://playoverwatch.com/en-us/heroes/pharah#story
dire timber
she wanted to join, but Overwatch collapsed before she got the chance
fringe blade
Where was Doomfist held
hearty bone
Is prison
fringe blade
I mean like geograpihcally
spare sigil
no
valid shell
Good.
peak escarp
@fringe blade we don't know where his prison was
granite gazelle
Nice meme
dense estuary
well to be fair while messing with an existing AI for a new project would be dumb, Dumb has never stopped science before. And absolutely has never stopped it in fictional settings.
though I tend to favor more of a new one that went rogue, requiring OW action.
dense estuary
yea I scrolled up
peak escarp
I wonder what/who else got out when Doomfist had his jailbreak
fringe blade
Are there any other 'children' in Overwatch except for Pharah
like kids of OW members
peak escarp
Brigitte and Pharah
Brigitte has siblings
we know Jack never had children
Gabe might have
Rein seems like a bachelor
worthy rose
I worry for reinhardt. Poor dude doesn't seem to have a home that we know of besides the lindholms and hist armored vehicle
paper gazelle
peak escarp
it's heavily implied, but not confirmed
"family" could just be a wife/husband with no kids
fringe blade
did Brig join Overwatch in lore?
worthy rose
no
She's with Rein but it's assumed she'll join since Rein answered the Winston call
Tho she doesn't have a very positive outlook on Overwatch due to Torb telling her of it's treatment of Reinhardt
but who knows she might not hold it against new Overwatch
worthy rose
No she wasn't upset at rein for answering the call. She doesn't want him to get burned again since to Torb's perspective they left rein out to hang and dry
unreal belfry
Ah
worthy rose
i thought this video was pretty interesting conceding the fact that it is unnoficial ik lots of people want widow to be a good person again and so i thought this was interesting
chilly peak
Chu or someone else kinda confirmed that heroes in the future don't have to be the same as they are today. Like Widow's brainwash slowly wears off
fringe blade
To be honest
Unless we get some new Talon heroes introduced
I dont see Widow turning on Talon, story-wise
reef thicket
if anyone would turn on talon i think it would be sombra
dire timber
!!loreHeroes ashe
twilit nacelleBOT
To learn more, please visit https://playoverwatch.com/en-us/heroes/ashe#story
dire timber
Elizabeth Caledonia, lol
peak escarp
what about her?
dire timber
nothing, just wanted to check the name
iron plume
"Calamity" too, how are you so extra
peak escarp
it's definitely a reference to Calamity Jane
fringe blade
Didn't Calamity Jane have that rifle?
regal coyote
she does wield a rifle
valid shell
@fringe blade Everyone had a lever-action in that era.
regal coyote
she was supposed to be a scout and a whore and many things more.
also a showman in buffalo bill's show at one point
dude some people at that era lives several lifetime's worth of adventures compare to us
but Jane is an interesting figure... a wild drunk woman
a great story teller
and a whoe bunch of other things
also the real one has raven hair and eyes, but some comic series before painted her as white hair i think
regal coyote
yes calamity jane is in the wild west, and there ain't no bars in the wild west
also jane is not considered a criminal in history though
she is rarely in prosioned or something
found it
for some reason some movies and cartoons have her wield a whip
no known record of her using a whip though
the real deal
dense estuary
whip thing was probably due to the whole hollywood "cowgirl" thing of some western themed content.
interesting enough besides its video game physics effects for gameplay reasons the coach gun she carries is based off a real weapon, Its where the term "Riding Shotgun" comes from. The person on the right side of the bench on up of the stage coaches carried a shorter barreled shotgun called a coach gun.
granite gazelle
Yo whats the weapon rien wields in the new skin called?
valid shell
@granite gazelle Guandao!
granite gazelle
Ty ty
valid shell
Although his in particular is the legendary Green Dragon Crescent Blade.
pallid gale
Hello everyone, me and a few others who play overwatch have came together and are trying to put together the cinematic storyline of overwatch, and we need more people to help, if you want to help please dm me and we can talk more about what we need to be done and why we are doing it. Thank you and see you all out there in overwatch!
slate zinc
limpid agate
Another 16 minute video...
Not gonna watch this one, usually they're riddled with error
peak escarp
I think I've seen that one
peak escarp
it was mostly right, but got a few things out of order
limpid agate
I remember this now
peak escarp
and I'm not a fan of anything that makes assumptions about the exact year OW takes place in (even though I do it myself)
limpid agate
It got a lot of important things in the wrong order and made a lot of random predictions and said they were fact
peak escarp
at least I declare up front that I'm making big assumptions
videos like this state it like it's canon fact
peak escarp
if we could get a confirmed year, everything else would be easier to figure out
and if they gave all the heroes birthdays, I'd know if I had the timeline more or less right depending on when Orisa's birthday is
fringe blade
Tbh, I feel like AI on the level of omnics is still decades away
peak escarp
it is
fringe blade
It might come close in like 60? Years
peak escarp
closer than that
fringe blade
It was in a reddit AMA, i believe
Like, 2-3 years ago
I will post a link if I can find it
peak escarp
we pretty much have learning AI right now
maybe not AI with free will or capable of abstract thought
but they can learn and adapt
peak escarp
why not?
he was a theoretical physicist, not an expert in robotics and AI programming
fringe blade
I mean, ifs possible. I just think that Hawking would have much more experience and mind power than both of us combined
Its*
peak escarp
he was just a person like anyone else
peak escarp
so?
fringe blade
A genius is a person who has a much different view on things. That view is usually much more refined and accurate
peak escarp
debatable
fringe blade
Doesnt necessarily mean they are smarter (he was) but that they view the world from a more accurate, truthful angle
peak escarp
okay
peak escarp
nobody's viewpoint is more accurate or truthful than anyone else's
everyone's perspective is subjective
fringe blade
That is true.
And no, @limpid agate, thats not exactly accurate. I dont agree with him because he is Stephen Hawking. I agree with him because a) i dont see a reason not to, since his answer seems completely logical b) i agree with his opinion
limpid agate
I just think that Hawking would have much more experience and mind power than both of us combined
A genius is a person who has a much different view on things. That view is usually much more refined and accurate
Doesnt necessarily mean they are smarter (he was) but that they view the world from a more accurate, truthful angle
That's not what you were saying at all
fringe blade
Well, sorry, I guess? I suppose i I phrased myself incorrectly. However, I still standby my opinion about geniuses
limpid agate
Ok. Still a fallacy
fringe blade
I... Dont see how that is a fallacy?
limpid agate
You are agreeing with the opinion purely because you believe who said it is a genius.
fringe blade
A genius doesnt necessarily have to be a figure of authority
Like a said, a genius is a person with a different mindset
fringe blade
A genius is just a description of a human, like an optimist or pesemist.
limpid agate
Not able to defend his position that global warming 'isn't true' Bob says that he knows an optimist who also questions global warming
Its the same fallacy.
fringe blade
Who said 'I cant defend my position'?
limpid agate
Me. Because you havent.
All you have said was that Stephen Hawking said so. Then when told it was a fallacy, you said its not because he said so, just because you think hes right.
fringe blade
What did he ask me about
limpid agate
If you're just gonna keep wasting time not explaining your point about Omnics besides Hawking said it
I'm ending this
fringe blade
Okay, I mean, it wasnt just based on Hawking's words. It was just onr of my reasons, but we got into a discussion about him, so i never got to actually talk about my point. End it if you want though
thorn lantern
fair widget
"No one cares about what Hawking said."
not even read above but that's an iconic sentence
regal coyote
can we go back to the topic of omnics and not "argue about argueing"?
weary turtle
You might have already discussed this (and i just dont remember) but how does mcree know echo?
peak escarp
that hasn't really been explained yet
but she knows Winston well enough to know he doesn't like being called a monkey, so she's likely former Overwatch
maybe they were actual partners at some point
weary turtle
Oh yeah...
Forgot about that
Could she have been made by a third party and how likely would that be?
I guess she could have been made by winston (or overwatch for that matter) but i want to consider other possibilities too
iron plume
I doubt it was Winston, but it probably was an OW scientist/engineer
weary turtle
In that case she would have been born post crisis since making her would take time
iron plume
yes
weary turtle
And would there really be a need for that
I assume it would get really expensive quite quickly
iron plume
old Overwatch had a lot of resources
chilly peak
Echo isn't unique Omnic
just like Zenyatta and Mondatta are the same type of Omnic, Echo has many similar looking robots
weary turtle
I still dont think they would go around funding every project (but yeah still very likely)
peak escarp
Leonora Bottruvio seems to be the same model as Echo
iron plume
it's not just any random project
chilly peak
@peak escarp +1
weary turtle
Well in that case why lock her up
chilly peak
I wanted to say about her 😄
weary turtle
If she isnt special
peak escarp
because she was treated like an asset rather than a person?
retconned images aside, the UN doesn't seem to be pro-omnic
weary turtle
Treated by who (since ist the world full of omnic friendliness by then)
peak escarp
the UN/Helix/whoever took control of Overwatch assets after the shutdown
weary turtle
Id still imagine them just using her like a regular omnic if she wasnt special and not traficked one by one
She can float and is most likely somehow war tech
peak escarp
I think maybe McCree stole her memory chip before the shutdown
so her chassis was put into storage due to it being inanimate
weary turtle
Why not just make another chip or copy the memories of an existing one of there are similiar models
peak escarp
or he saw the shutdown coming and decided to take her so she couldn't be used against Overwatch?
why would they?
Echo's memory and personality are on that chip
weary turtle
Why would they need echo spesifically if they have the body
chilly peak
or McCree had something like decrypting chip
peak escarp
why would someone need your flash drive full of sensitive data if they have your computer?
weary turtle
Why would they take the Omnic carcass around by ecpensive trafiking
peak escarp
expensive trafficking?
weary turtle
Yeah but why not still make use of the body
peak escarp
that would be weird
peak escarp
the train was also transporting other weapons and (presumeably) Overwatch assets
weary turtle
But as the mainpoint why not just utilize the body with a replasement chip
peak escarp
that would be weird
that would be like putting a different person's brain into your body
I don't think omnics are reusable like that
or at least, they have respect for the person she was
weary turtle
But since the bodies would be so similiar hence you calling them mass produced or something "same modell"
And who was Leonora Bottruvio anyway? :D
weary turtle
And i suppose i'm digging for logic too deep for blizzad standards but we still got a good convo out of it :D
What do you think will be the next NEW nationality for a hero (what places dont have that good of a representation in ow)?
worthy rose
in terms of world wide representation I think we're pretty good
for the major countries anyway
weary turtle
Meabye another european?
peak escarp
I'd like to see more representation for the middle east
the closest we have is Egypt, which is counted as part of Africa
we have 2 maps for the middle east, but no heroes
regal coyote
no PLAYABLE hero but there are names
i hope our archaeologist is gonna be playable
unfortunately he cannot have twin pistols
single pistol is sorta taken too, so did cowboy hat
but can he at least have a whip?
another way is that the old archaeologist himself not playable, but his son/daughter will be
peak escarp
who says he's old?
regal coyote
makes sense too, maybe his son would choose to name himself after the family dog and be a hero for once.
old/young as in father/son
peak escarp
what are you going on about?
regal coyote
idea is that as such we can have lore of two person.
a father that is in the background, and a younger more active but inexperience son as the playable hero
that would give mroe middle east people lore also
a daughter would be good, but since both egypt related heroes are femle a male is ncie also
as for the weapon and outfit comment, is referencing famous important archaeologist figures
Lara Croft and Indiana Jones
weary turtle
An inexperienced daughter and a whip hero would be cool... tell me more about brigitte
peak escarp
they're not going to steal Indiana Jones for a hero
regal coyote
that is why i say no
since it kinda is done
also same reason why a whip archaeologist female hero would be not working, cause brig
weary turtle
And hog
regal coyote
was always thinking of a hero, dps type with a helper creature, like a robotic hawk
that would be nicely middle eastern theme
hawk small enough to be count as only an object 9like a moveable smll turret) and is good in a scouting kind of idea
weary turtle
I just tought of a spear hero but im afraid that were kind of going too far off topic
regal coyote
also similar idea is used in things like league and even *cough paladiens
worthy rose
Probably need a new discussion channel for hero concepts
granite gazelle
Nah
weary turtle
And alltogether theorising
peak escarp
the lore side of hero concepts is fine to discuss here
weary turtle
For overly stretched theories that dont have enought proof
peak escarp
abilities, roles and gameplay are beyond the scope of this channel though
if your theory doesn't have enough proof then it isn't a very good theory
weary turtle
Still fun to make them up (but this isnt really a place for those)
dire timber
@peak escarp "but she knows Winston well enough to know he doesn't like being called a monkey"
that or she doesn't know Winston at all
peak escarp
if she didn't know Winston at all McCree would have had to do more explaining than just "Scientist - whatever!"
weary turtle
Well isnt winston famous for being in overwatch
worthy rose
i'd be more suprised by a talking gorilla who was extremely intelligent than the fact he worked in OW
weary turtle
And the whole super smart gorilla thing seems kind of unique on itself (i know there were other gorillas in hlc but still=
^^
And of course the fact that mcree even got the species wrong
peak escarp
a lot of people will call apes monkeys
and Winston has said a few times "I'm not a monkey, I'm a scientist."
so it's logical to assume anyone who has worked with him would know that he dislikes being called a monkey and will correct them to "Scientist", rather than gorilla/ape/anything else that is more correct than monkey
wraith zealot
ı really wanna see emre as a character
thinking maybe something like a jannisarry looking character that uses either a schimtar or yatagan (something like genji or tracer type characret) or could give him a musket and make him similar to widow
his ult could be like a medieval ottoman cannon
or a barage of cannons to a location determined like mei's wall
limpid agate
Daily reminder Overwatch is science fiction.
worthy rose
o
limpid agate
Not historical fiction or fantasy
iron plume
a lot of the designs are inspired by historical figures or units though
starting with the obvious reinhardt
so while I don't think all of that would be in one, he could well end up as a janissary-type fighter
peak escarp
taking inspiration from something is different that just ripping it off wholesale
wraith zealot
considering genji is inspired by ninja
hanzo inspired by samurai archer
also we have 2 cowboys
ım not saying put a medieval character in there but
overwatch characters already have lot of historical soldier references and fighting styles in them
brigitte is a good example fo rthis too
a futuristic version of a janissary could still work
limpid agate
The game is also an FPS
timid eagle
I honestly wouldn't mind a pure animal character (a rescue dog) that acts as a support unit that can retrieve health packs and provide them to their teammates.
wraith zealot
that didnt stop adding rein and brig
limpid agate
2/29 heroes are melee centric. That is more than enough
If they do somehow revive Emre
I almost guarantee he wont be a melee hero.
The only ones that are, are crusaders
wraith zealot
you also hve to consider overwatch isnt ur everyday FPS
everysingle hero is different
not even the 2 of same type match each other
we got 2 cowboys with 2 different style
so ı dont see no reason for them to run away from a hero that based on melee
limpid agate
Because that's absurd. Its not For Honor. Even TF2 restricted its melee class to just half of demoman.
wraith zealot
ım not saying it has to be a janissary but having a hero with a melee focus would be nice
limpid agate
The melee heroes are both melee + shield, with the melee just existing so they can fight because their main intention is the shield.
He is more likely to be a janissary with guns than a melee hero
peak escarp
what about Doomfist? I'd count him as a melee fighter
limpid agate
He isnt
wraith zealot
me too
wraith zealot
his main abilites are melee
limpid agate
Only the uppercut is melee
wraith zealot
his fist
limpid agate
The punch is not melee
limpid agate
He isnt close range
That's Winston
You can argue Winston is mechanically identical
Doomfist is not
wraith zealot
ı dont see ur point with winston being close range and doomfist being not
doomfist is a hero that goes close to do damage then gets out
limpid agate
Winston's gun is mechanically identical to Reinhardt's hammer swinging 20 times
wraith zealot
ok
now what makes doomfist a long range or medium range
rather than close
you can come up with the argument he has abilities that go far but same thing would go with rein and winston
limpid agate
The punch is a projectile attack where Doomfist is the projectile.
wraith zealot
with that thinking ı could count rein a projectile aswell
since both his abilities are projectile
his charge and firestrike
limpid agate
You can make the argument for both
But then you are stuck to him having very little in the way of being a melee hero
wraith zealot
so what makes rein a melee and doomfist not
limpid agate
By definition, melee is a finite range hitscan sweep.
Past that, Emre probably wont ever become a character
peak escarp
not for a long time, at least
wraith zealot
yea
peak escarp
last we heard Emre was just a name
wraith zealot
his way too much of a background guy
iron plume
Even TF2 restricted its melee class to just half of demoman
and most of Spy
I'd also argue overwatch is more open to it, not less
Still, I doubt we're getting a full melee dps, ever
if we are they'll be a "specialist"
timid eagle
Regardless, I still want him to wield a sword.
valid shell
It would be hard to be rocket-powered. All his weapons so far have been top-heavy.
Hammer, axe, monk's spade, guandao, etc.
valid shell
Arthurian Reinhardt skin with Excalibur still lodged in the stone would work.
wraith zealot
ı would love that sword aswell
but it would be really har not just with his rocket power thing on top but also the way he handles it
he wouldnt be holding its handle at all
hearty yacht
give rein a banana hammock
lean prawn
reinhardt getting frustrated and just using the entire sword and stone as a hammer sounds like something he would do
peak escarp
someone complained that Brigitte and Hammond didnt add any lore
and that got me thinking - what lore did the other hero releases add?
most of what we knew about Ana came from other sources - her release just told us she wasn't dead
Sombra's release just put a face to a name we already knew
same with Doomfist
Orisa added world building (same as Hammond)
Moira gave us the most substantial lore by explaining how Reaper became Reaper
valid shell
Moira added either a little or a lot, depending on whether or not some of the theories about her are true.
Like if she's the Widowmakermaker or was a Talon mole while in Blackwatch.
peak escarp
Ashe was like Moira, and added new lore to existing factions
lean prawn
did we know that horizon did experiments on creatures besides gorillas before hammond's release?
valid shell
Yes.
peak escarp
we knew they worked on apes
lean prawn
was this limited to primates?
peak escarp
gorillas, chimps and orangutans were confirmed
valid shell
We've always known that Hammond existed, and was tested on, and was smaller than an ape.
lean prawn
so hammond's release confirmed that the range of the colony's research was larger than just primates
valid shell
Not his release, no.
peak escarp
in most cases, it isn't the hero release that add substantial lore - it's the comic/short that comes with them
valid shell
His initial hint when Horizon dropped.
peak escarp
the initial hint teased other animals, Hammond's release confirmed it
valid shell
I've always considered it confirmed considering the explicit wording of the tease, but I suppose your mileage may vary.
peak escarp
people still thought he was a smaller ape or other primate
lean prawn
the tease before hammond's release had a poster with a monkey on it
valid shell
And a dog.
peak escarp
Hammond's initial hint calls him a "smaller specimen", not "smaller animal"
all their other specimens were apes, so that was the logical assumption
valid shell
Sure, but Hotelier's specified "creatures besides gorillas".
Smaller apes are still different creatures.
lean prawn
i started saying primates after realizing that everyone thought hammond was a chimp
peak escarp
Brigitte added about as much lore as Ana - she was a hero we had seen before and knew her relation to the other heroes
similar to Sombra and Doomfist, who were known characters that we hadn't seen but knew about
there isn't a single hero who didn't add something we didn't know before
and that counts as lore
limpid agate
I disagree
About Ana
I would argue Brigitte's release was the least important, followed by Hammond.
If only because we already knew Brigitte well enough.
The most important were Orisa and Doomfist, followed by Sombra and Moira.
Past that, Ana and Ashe didn't directly move the story, but supplemential material that came with them did. Old Soldiers and Reunion.
Hammond didn't do much, but he did tell us about who Hammond was.
Brig did nothing.
Other than tell us she built her own armor now
The difference between her and Hammond is that, if she never came out, we wouldnt be asking any questions
While if Hammond never came out, we would still be asking who is Hammond
peak escarp
Brig's release told us more about Brig and the Lindolms, but you're right - nobody was asking
limpid agate
What did it tell us?
Everything about the past we already knew
It was only putting on the suit that was new
Even Ingrid's name we knew from Mercy
Other than that... White Dome and Reinhardt naming her I guess is about it
Which is how Torb lost his arm, so sure.
She told us that
valid shell
Everything we got from Brigitte was superficial. We already knew Reinhardt was rejoining Overwatch. We knew Brigitte was going to continue being his squire. All we learned was she has armor, a flail, a shield, and would fight.
Just superficial video gamey shit.
Nothing about her character or the Lindholms or Reinhardt or Overwatch was gleaned.
hearty bone
I want another dps character that can do minor healing
hearty bone
Shit
timid eagle
As far as lore goes, Hammond definitely added quite a bit.
Along with the genetic conditioning the test subjects have gone through.
limpid agate
That wasnt new
That was from Horizon Lunar Colony
Hammond's biggest contribution outside himself was the Queen's appearance
timid eagle
True, but seeing how the experiments had affected different species shows it's application.
At least Hammond didn't turn into a roid, rampaging ape-like monster.
untold lichen
are winston and hammond friends
timid eagle
Yep, the two are best pals.
worthy rose
meh. We knew the animals experiments most likely developed a higher form of intelligence than what was originally bestowed
timid eagle
But we don't have much in-game interaction with them, surprisingly.
untold lichen
I mean the other can't speak so..
worthy rose
they're friends but canonically winston doesn't know where hammond is
winston can understand hampster speak
i think it's an ongoing joke by the creators that all animals besides humans can understand eachother
atleast the experimented ones anyway
limpid agate
They were friends. Winston doesnt know Hammond is on Earth
timid eagle
@untold lichen He biologically cannot speak, he can’t form words with his mouth even if he tried.
untold lichen
I wonder...do they have a voice interactions
worthy rose
yea but the canonicity of voice lines is very questionable
timid eagle
There was this one interaction where Winston is shocked to see Hammond if the two are in the same spawn room. But I don't think it's in the game just yet.
Sombra has some funny voice lines with the hamster, though.
worthy rose
they're best presented as like "What if scenarios" and sometimes they give insight on other lore
limpid agate
The point of that line is
Winston is surprised to see Hammond
Because he doesnt know he is on Earth
untold lichen
wait people think the voicelines and interactions are canon?
worthy rose
some lines are canon but it's a weird mess. There's a voice line genji gives during the retribution event where he talks about how Talon tried to recruit his father into the organization which I'm taking as canon
limpid agate
I think you also misunderstand the canonity of them
Its not a mess at all
Its really simple
They are what two characters would say if they were in a given situation
worthy rose
I just realized something
worthy rose
The heavy in Retribution is like the playtest version of Bob and I didn't realize that till now
prototype i mean
limpid agate
The heavy has a Rein charge, a melee knockback, and can move while shooting with critboxes in the back
Maybe that was an old version of Bob's kit
limpid agate
Other way around
Talon Assassin takes parts of Genji's old kit
Before they gave him Sombra's kit instead
And made Sombra a hacker
timid eagle
On a related note, it annoys me that I can't charge the heavy assault as Rein.
But I find most of the voice lines either fun "What If's?", outside of the lore-related modes.
limpid agate
They are all just "what ifs"
But what they say
Is what contributes
Compare Widow/Reaper to Widow/Tracer
timid eagle
Good point.
limpid agate
Reaper: Looks like we're working together again.
Widowmaker: Let's hope it goes better than the time at the museum.
The word again tells us they did this in the past.
Widow then specifies how it happened in the past
Of course we already knew that
Widowmaker: Tiens, tiens. [Well, well.] It looks like we will be working together.
Tracer: Don't think I'm happy about that!
This interactions tells you nothing about their history.
Just that they would not like to work together.
Neither of them are "canon"
But they both represent canon in their own way
Another is this Ana/Pharah interaction
Pharah: Mum, I know why you didn't want me to join Overwatch; but it's still what I want.
Ana: I didn't want that life for you, but I know that it's your decision, and I will support it.
The two never had this conversation
But it still represents what each of them would say if they did
As well as their current and past desires
But the conversation itself never literally happened
worthy rose
I do wonder what Sombra is hinting at about Reinhardt's leave when she talks to brig
timid eagle
Probably something that was the bigger cause for him to be forced into retirement.
My guess is Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy (CTE), or the disease that is caused by repeated head injuries.
timid eagle
There have been a lot of hints that Rein has CTE.
Such as Torb mentioning his "ridiculous stories" and that he's hallucinating dragons and demons when he fought that gang.
regal coyote
@limpid agate how canon do you think the standard 4 in retribution is when it comes to their comments on the talon special troops.
I think since the whole thing is scripted in the standard mission (refardless of difficulty) their dialogue would be canon
in which case it does mean talon have cyborg troopers, if not more.
also while the power/difficulty is not canon (as in a heavy talon trooper ground is probably not many times tougher than a hero agent) their style and ability is at least partially canon.
so heavy would have big gatlings and at least be quite tough, some troops would have various weaponary (as in their models) and there are at least cyborg enhanced assassins and probably semi-modified snipers that are probably tech borrowed from the widow/reaper project
also it does confirm talon's ability to send huge fleet of dropships and air support, as seen earlier/later in alive
ON REIN he is basically a recreation of a spanish knight (and squire) who goes around fighting things in the name of justice, it won't surprise me if he would one day attack industrial constructions treating them as giants, or courting village girls as princess.
In a way, him having the same end would be poetic to say the least
wraith zealot
ı believe rein is kinda aware of his situation
worthy rose
the talon sniper was in fact an Ana bot that used grapple
the assassin was a tracer bot that had those hand blades
troopers were s76 bots with widow smg
iron plume
we're not discussing the inner workings here
and you're mostly wrong on them anyway
@timid eagle I very much doubt the dragons thing suggests Rein actually hallucinates the beasts
In the comic he asks the thugs to return what they stole, it's pretty clear he knows what's going on
also hallucinations aren't really a symptom of CTE
it's more of a "your brain just becomes worse at things" deal
twin galleon