Second, what is an objectively bad theory?
#lore-discussion
worthy rose
forest osprey
Just because we do not know what the objective is in it's entirety doesn't mean that objectivity doesn't exist or that we are not going towards it
forest osprey
The earth being in the center as the previous less true theory
You seem to be mad at something I don't feel angry at all
white cobalt
Can we back to our lore?
worthy rose
And not stupid arguments about objectivity for a story that very clearly is not finished
cause the only point proven here is that this argument is objectively dumb and a waste of time
Agreed.
forest osprey
When have you illustrated your viewpoint beyond trying to ask me for examples or misunderstanding my words?
limpid agate
^
worthy rose
Simple enough?
limpid agate
You went off on misunderstanding in general by going off on "Objectivity in science", which was also incorrect.
forest osprey
If something is subjective then I suppose you cannot argue that subjectivity is subjective because that supposes that there is consistency in the world
limpid agate
You can easily argue subjective
Doctor Six thinks the lore is good
I disagree
Therefor, its subjective
white cobalt
^
worthy rose
^
forest osprey
You haven't proven me to be incorrect you have simply avoided explaining anything and trying to schematize me within your subjective argument in order to maintain your world view
white cobalt
The only "objective writing" is a set of rules how to present a paper/theory and your facts
forest osprey
Saying this or that is incorrect without explaining anything doesn't progress anything
white cobalt
but how if you like or not is entirely subjective, specially in fiction
forest osprey
You can like bad writing
forest osprey
Is that a true statement within your viewpoint
limpid agate
You cant define good writing
peak escarp
how about this: why does it matter?
just let people like what they like and don't try to psychoanalyze it
limpid agate
Let me elaborate
You can't define objectively good writing
You can define subjectively good writing through a bias
But not objectively
white cobalt
Anyways, i went to blizz forums to see if there are some theories, all i found is soldier's sexuality rants
there is a lore section
limpid agate
Im ignoring the forums for the month
white cobalt
but argh
peak escarp
yeah, it's been flooded because the mods moved everything there
instead of just closing the threads and directing them to the megaythread
worthy rose
Bro, do yourself a favor and just shut up. You said something, Someone disagreed with you. You're now trying to argue a topic that has no objective answer (because fictional stories are subjective; Can't believe I even have to say that) and by you trying to argue it by bringing science into it which you expect will somehow validate your argument makes you seem more like an idiot. You are basically Jerry Smith right now in that episode of Rick and Morty where he's trying to prove Pluto is planet.
white cobalt
Like seriously there is full of shit, nothing to see, neither theories
just...rants
limpid agate
Critics are subjective
peak escarp
also people are refusing to believe that the scene in Reflections is the same as the scene in Bastet because of artistic differences
it's pretty obvious that they're intended to be the same scene
limpid agate
Just drop it and move on
forest osprey
All that proves is just you've become emotional Kaeore
limpid agate
You're just making things worse for yourself
forest osprey
You don't need to be liked to advance an argument in fact it just prevents real discussion
limpid agate
You are currect
white cobalt
@peak escarp because the photo in reflections Soldiers uses a jacket and Vincent looks like tracer?
limpid agate
This argument prevents real discussion
peak escarp
white cobalt
Yeah
peak escarp
doesn't look like Tracer to me
peak escarp
but yeah, Jack looks like he's wearing his Commando outfit
Tracer's hair goes the other way
peak escarp
also Chu said it wasn't Tracer
white cobalt
Yup, i saw it some months ago
peak escarp
but if you look at the other details of the scene, it's clear they're meant to be the same scene
even the tiles of the wall behind them are the same
white cobalt
I'm more curious if there gonna be an Archives event dedicated to Cairo/Anubis
worthy rose
Possible
I more so want like a new MEKA hero and korea focused archives
Give me hot boi Casino plz
white cobalt
We dont have info on the Anubis shutdown?
limpid agate
It will still be events tied to Overwatch
peak escarp
I want to know if Casino has any ties to Monaco/Maximilien
worthy rose
I know but OW archives go back a while and OW has (I assume) helped korea in the past to fend off the Gwishin
What makes u think that doc?
peak escarp
because Monaco is known for 2 things - casinos, and the Monaco Grand Prix
and Casino's mech is named La Princese Sereine
which is the title of the princess of Monaco
limpid agate
I know but OW archives go back a while and OW has (I assume) helped korea in the past to fend off the Gwishin
They didn't as far as we know
Korea did it alone
Also, that would give 0 playable MEKA heroes in the event
peak escarp
there's no doubt that Casino has raced in the Monaco Grand Prix - he's an F1 racer, and that's the biggest F1 race
the real question is whether there's any link between him and Max
worthy rose
Really? I assumed they did cause Korea as far as I know is or was Pro Overwatch while Overwatch's purview was to help maintain peace and original purpose to fight the omnic threat which Gwishin would fall under. I just want my boi Casino
it doesn't even have to be related to the event
I just want him
white cobalt
All i know i want Liao's name deleted in that blog
Because there's not mention in other parts of lore
peak escarp
I want more mentions of Liao
worthy rose
I just wanna know who that dude and lady were in the Ana Pharah picture with the reinhardt and the rest
white cobalt
In the Ana's short just there is mention of Rein, Jack and Gabe
we had Torb's lore
but nothing about Liao
worthy rose
who were the dude with the mohawk and the african lady in the picture?
we ever get a name or?
limpid agate
white cobalt
Emre is considered dead?
peak escarp
when Ana's origin trailer was made, First Strike was still being worked on
so if Liao got retconned out, it would have been after the Ana origin was produced
white cobalt
Pretty much, even in the first videos there is nothing about Liao
And Chu was avoiding all the questions related to Liao too
worthy rose
Should we take that to mean he didn't think of anything for Liao or he wanted to keep info private
peak escarp
whatever the outcome, I want to get an answer
even if they were retconned out
I just want to know
white cobalt
Yeah, that bugs me every time a lore is dropped
peak escarp
until we get an answer, I choose to believe Liao is still a part of the story, and will be relevant at some point
but I still want more on Casino
and the rest of the MEKA squad too I guess, but mostly Casino
worthy rose
Casino, Demon or was it D-mon, and profit Overlord
peak escarp
Casino, D.Mon, Overlord and King
and hell why not, more about DVa too
not that there's much to tell
fringe blade
Honestly, it bugs me so much when a game developer releases some sort of info years after a game's release, and that info being non-canon and not making much sense, just to get some more hype around the game
Especially when the info is pretty much useless
worthy rose
such as
fringe blade
Just used to start a controversy
'76 is gay'
Great.
And not that I mind anyone being gay or the LGBTQ+ community at all
worthy rose
i really don't think it was meant to stir up controversy. I think that was to flush out the characters a bit more and give some key details such as Reaper having a family and Talon's operations there. LGBT being a Controversy is, and please excuse my language, so 2008-2013.
I think it was a bone to the lore fans who have been starved for content for a while
fringe blade
I suppose. I just feel like the rest of the story could've been told without the whole 'reveal', and just told as it is. And it's not even really lore. It doesn't add anything to the story at all. Like, AT ALL. It doesn't reveal anything that contributes to maps or stories or theories or even really character relationships. I just don't see the point of that information being in the game at all. Tracer being gay is fine. It's great. It's been in there since the beggining, it makes sense. Yes, the fact that Tracer's gay doesn't add anything to the story (not much, anyway) but it has been planned from the very beggining and has been there from the very start of the game and it's lore.
fringe blade
Okay, my bad. It might be 'canon', per say, but it was just plopped down into the lore by the writers without any clues or hints or ANYTHING really that could've potentially led to the idea of 76 being queer/gay.
peak escarp
Tracer being gay wasn't there from the beginning - it was added 7 months after the game launched
white cobalt
Also was hinted before
peak escarp
Soldier being gay was hinted at in the same comic where Tracer was revealed to be gay
white cobalt
Same as the writers mentioning in Blizzcon about there is more than a gay character
@fringe blade
fringe blade
Hmm.
That might be possible.
I don't know, there are similarities between the two black haired guys, but it is strange.
worthy rose
I mean, Tracer being gay wasn't shown anywhere until the comic and anything prior to that was the creator's going "Yea she's gay". If you look at her character bio, it doesn't say "Gay adventurer". I don't even think you're annoyed at the whole Soldier being gay thing being dropped, you just wanted I assume more content that would push the story as a whole along right? Like maybe a short story about Tracer and Winston going on another mission to stop Talon and meeting Sombra or something plot progressive instead of more backstory type stuff right? @fringe blade
fringe blade
@worthy rose That's not what I was trying to say. Sorry if you got that impression. I just don't like when reveals like that are just slammed into your face. I guess Tracer's release was also a 'slap in the face', but still.
sly socket
How was Soldier's reveal a "slap to the face"?
fringe blade
I just personally like when info is introduced slowly, piece by piece.
peak escarp
not "similarities"
worthy rose
Then I dont get what you're annoyed about. Anytime Blizzard or the OW team releases anything new lore wise it's a wave. I'm damn pumped everytime they release a comic, Atlas news blog, or animation. Those make pretty big waves
peak escarp
those are intended to be the same picture
worthy rose
And this is their first "Short story"
fringe blade
@peak escarp Do they really? I honestly don't know. They look a bit different
To me
peak escarp
Twitter
peak escarp
different artists, same scene
worthy rose
The fact that soldier is gay is the thing a lot of people took from it instead of the other little bits cause people in this day and age still think lgbt is a spectacle or also just happy for representation of any sort
fringe blade
@peak escarp That's really interesting, thanks. I didn't know that before.
@worthy rose Again, this is just my personal opinion, so you don't have to agree to it, but I feel like companies (not just Blizzard, and I'm not saying that Blizzard is) are trying to get the attention of media/players by introducing backstories/ideas that are very popular/controversial at the time. That gets the media talking, which attracts the players.
white cobalt
There is nothing contorversial on Soldier being gay
just mentioned because feels nostalgic
worthy rose
Ehh possible. I get your point. He's not saying he has an issue with soldier being gay but news media and outlets will read the short story and that piece of characterization will count as either representation or spectacle which can be seen as "controversy"
At least that's what i think he's saying
sly socket
Thats true. I don't feel like this is the case though.
fringe blade
@worthy rose That's exactly what I meant, I just didn't know how to phrase it. Thanks.
In some ways, it wasn't forced I guess.
white cobalt
I mean, there is a Drags program
peak escarp
there was so much other characterization in that short story . . . we found out that Jack is serious and doesn't trust doctors, but he tries to smile his way out of trouble and does one-armed pushups when he's getting fidgity
fringe blade
It wasn't like 76 was all in pink and jumping around with a rainbow flag
white cobalt
in public TV
peak escarp
and he trusts Ana enough to drink her tea, knowing full well she has likely drugged it
peak escarp
well, when he suspects it the first thing he does is look at his tea
so maybe subconsciously
white cobalt
Yeah, for me he was shocked
worthy rose
bright side it finally cleared up that the family Reaper was stalking in that new year's comic was likely his family and not something malicious
peak escarp
he tries to do the lone-wolf thing but he knows he needs Ana's help and will begrudgingly help her do her thing so she can help him do his
fringe blade
I want to know about Reys's backstory more tbh
fringe blade
We never see the Reyes before reaper ezcept foe the uprising event
worthy rose
then join the Overwatch lore discord server where we talk about this stuff
bring ur questions
cause we got a book and a timeline and lots of evidence
peak escarp
I don't know if you're allowed to advertise other servers Kaeore
peak escarp
we've seen a little bit of Reyes in Uprising and Retribution
and in the Junkenstein halloween party
fringe blade
Just not as much as id like
peak escarp
yeah, I'd like more too
stuck bridge
that rule is probably for advertising ur own servers
peak escarp
I want to see more of the strike team during the Omnic Crisis, with Reyes as the leader
stuck bridge
i dont see problem with other big ow discord linked here if it brings community talking about stuff
off lore topic sorry
worthy rose
I'm more into certain events than some characters
white cobalt
Same, i would like this format to explain more about how are the heroes
Altough for "action" parts i would like a comic
worthy rose
I don't really have a preference. If given the option I will always pick the Animations
but I'm happy with any and all lore
peak escarp
short stories are good for character moments, since it lets you know their internal thoughts without interrupting the flow of the story
comics/shorts are good for action scenes
white cobalt
Yeah, i said that because i remember Chu mentioning they're checking if this format is popular
Shitposting will result in loss of access.
peak escarp
there seems to be good feedback on the format, so that's good
(it's just the content that people are unhappy with)
worthy rose
I like the format but I hope that doesn't mean other formats are going obsolete because of it
peak escarp
they have already confirmed comics will return "soon"
and there's no reason to think the 2 shorts we get every year will stop any time soon
worthy rose
i was more thinking if short stories would end Atlas News blogs
peak escarp
they haven't used Atlas News since last April
worthy rose
ik T^T
wraith zealot
ı feel like short story gives more content sinc ethey have to write more when they dont hve pictures
so we get more stuff
ı do like comics tho
past panther
More short stories would be cool, they can go more in-depth than comics and videos
restive flower
talking about the short stories
worthy rose
Ehh visual art has an impact on the story i feel
iron plume
he's talking about them being the same writing team
which is true
solemn pike
I think blizzard did hire an award winning writer not that long ago
Which would be really nice
Since micheal chu clearly needs help with the lore
solemn pike
@restive flower your point?
restive flower
i've already stated my point...
solemn pike
Sooo, what i said
restive flower
I said they should hire actual writers for the short stories because Michael Chu's work is amateur to read
You brought up comics
I said I was talking about short stories
You said "Same shit"
So I clarified I'm specifically referring to Chu's writing style
worthy rose
I prefer more detail oriented writing but it was a short story so I gave them leeway
limpid agate
What I liked about Chu's story was that it developed the world and had consistent, intentional details
Compared to something he doesn't write like Searching.
tough ridge
Am I the only one that feels like Chu is hesistant and sometimes unwilling to share the story?
valid shell
I sure hope so.
We've had so little to show for the three years OW has been live.
So either Blizzard is scrapping more stories than they're telling, like First Strike, and most lore is dies on the writer's table...
fair widget
i'm sure they have progressions in plan stemming off from literally every single characters story
or at least chu does in his head or on paper somewhere
but blizzard surely want to keep it scarce on purpose
to keep our interest
valid shell
...Or they're actually writing as little as we've seen and Chu intends to deliver our lore through quirky nonsequiter tweets.
fair widget
highly highly doubt that
iron plume
I don't think the latest lull was deliberate
or at least planned out
I think they saw the response to Searching being... not great and decided to go over the planned comics again
fair widget
i liked searching but yeah
they may have switched directions back to something they know we'd eat up again
maybe thats even why theyve introduced the short story, to get something out faster
iron plume
I think the story was always planned to be a story, it makes more sense as one
valid shell
@fair widget I seriously doubt the palpable frustration and unrest from fans about the lack of storytelling is some master plan from Blizz.
Because it's not going to pay off.
fair widget
we can agree to disagree but i have no doubt that there is already years worth of lore written
forest osprey
I agree with Binge that a lack of story is evident of likely lacklustre actual writing
valid shell
It's not keeping anyone's interest, they're hemorrhaging theorycrafters and fanartists and 'lol what story???' has become a joke for people even vaguely interested in lore.
forest osprey
But maybe someone will confront me again with emotional maxims and worship of subjectivity
iron plume
pretty sure it's mostly a joke for people who aren't even vaguely
but yes the lull is definitely unplanned, even if the original slow schedule is
fair widget
well i respect that opinion.. i just have a feeling that there would be more
i agree with you on the effect its having either way though
forest osprey
Well you know since the story cannot be evaluated no one is able to say anything of this story
iron plume
what
forest osprey
The possibility of it being planned is real probably but I don't think it would be so elaborate
forest osprey
Someone said since media is subjective therefore if I try to evaluate the story based on some standard that it would be the cardinal sin against humanity
fair widget
it's unfortunate why ever it's happening
i'd honestly love to understand what you're saying but i don't
iron plume
neither did anyone else
forest osprey
I was saying that overwatch was ambiguous about character motivation and therefore the story that we have has the result of being flim flam in a way
Not really being able to progress with quality but instead can favour an infinite amount of lore teaser that might not go anywhere
So it leaves a very big space for writing or giving an illusion of depth though I will confess I've never read too much of them only that people said motivation was not known
fair widget
i think i understand what you're saying, that the story is stagnant? which is... true lol. every piece of lore we have has just described what the characters are doing right now with not too much indication of their future plans ? 😛
forest osprey
Yes
forest osprey
Thank you
weary turtle
How long of loretime do you think well be needing for doomfists war starting operations to start unraweling?
Since i assume he already has a plan because in the end of masquerade he claimed "we have a war to start"
And i dont think he would need to wait for something spesific exept meaby preparations to complete
dire timber
@iron plume I hope they retroactively fix Searching in some ways
like, explain why Zarya visited so many weird places before actually getting to Dorado
peak escarp
they could easily do that by showing Sombra doing things in Lijiang/Hanamura/King's Row
dire timber
yep, that'd work
peak escarp
inland lichen
they really doing that
olive karma
I don't see why characters sexuality should have any effect on lore. It doesn't really have any effect the story. I'm not saying it's bad, but from an art and storytelling experience, its just a forced implement into the lore
peak escarp
how is it forced?
they were having a character moment, talking about photos that Jack was feeling nostalgic about
it was part of the natural flow of conversation
inland lichen
it wasnt forced at all??
regal coyote
I think for some sjw the sexualty is more important
but for me the msot important thing is that 76 had a lover, that is lost due to his duty
that is more important than his preference to mates
regal coyote
but yeah cudos for having some more LGBTX characters
inland lichen
its one picture, not forced x?d
frosty star
But statistically there are now more LGBTQ characters in the game than there are in real life
worthy rose
It's a couple pictures mentioned in passing.
olive karma
Well, I suppose its not the only time ow has introduced lore that had no affect, but I've always assumed he was a hard gritted soldier from war, not from losing a lover. But alright
white cobalt
He is still a hard gritted soldier from war
peak escarp
can't it be both?
regal coyote
it shows he is a tired man that has been through lots
worthy rose
It's not the point of the short story, so I'm perfectly happy.
white cobalt
stubborn and gritty
regal coyote
and shows it is not a love triangle as some might have thought
frosty star
I’m sure he was pretty hard grit even when he hadn’t lost him
That grit was probably the reason
frosty star
So now that 76 is out
regal coyote
i mean as long as it is a human i dont care what jack loves really
frosty star
Who are we looking to for pharah’s pops?
peak escarp
Sam
inland lichen
its already sam
peak escarp
frosty star
Oh really? I missed that news lol
olive karma
Hamstermilk, you have been very helpful. Although I believe the real reason they said this was to appeal to the lgbtq+ community, rather than acc trying to better their lore, but that okay
frosty star
Thanks!
regal coyote
he used to have flowing long heir better than ana's
olive karma
Nice
regal coyote
think it is in a spray of either pharah or ana
now we need a black womn for some reason to clam some people's needs.
though a trans hero would be cute
iron plume
his
peak escarp
if they wrote the story to appeal to people it would be a mess
regal coyote
we going captain planet saturday's cartoon when it coems to charactertypes s anywaya
iron plume
in the sense that there's a variety of people of both talents and backgrounds?
regal coyote
zarya probably identify as a she
peak escarp
Zarya is female
regal coyote
nothing that says otherwise
though she is 100% giving you snusnu
we only have 2 known character identify as they, and both toasters
one is bastion the other is lynx
worthy rover
Omg
iron plume
Lynx is a "they" and is non-binary
regal coyote
yes female, and since she is olympic competable she is not m2f either
she is just tough and muscular
olive karma
Perhaps they could have made him being gay a more pivotal point in the lore. THAT would be better. Cause otherwise its just gay for the sake of being gay. Alright I'm done, thx
peak escarp
people don't need a reason to be gay
regal coyote
whatever non-binary shit ... and by that i mean he a omnic anyways, he does not have right to have gender to start with
iron plume
it shouldn't be a story
regal coyote
any gender thing is fake for a robot
peak escarp
jesus Hamster
iron plume
it's not a big deal just as it isn't among accepting people IRL
peak escarp
so much hatred towards omnics
olive karma
Well, if its not important, than its pretty much just another bubble tea
regal coyote
not really but i think really them omnic can chosoe to be sexless, but non-binary means they ahve soemthing to start with, and as omnic they have nothing, and their initial state is really "it"
olive karma
Its not. But people are making it to be
iron plume
it's not on the level of bubble tea, since that wasn't even brought up in a story, just a tweet
regal coyote
and they can chosoe to adopt some human gender for convenience i guess but that is about it
iron plume
but still
they don't make it a big deal because it shouldn't be
@tight dew okay now you're deliberately doing it. Zarya is not a man. Stop shitposting
regal coyote
in the end there is no omnic sexuality, hell, there is no sex on robot to start with, both the word, biokogically and snusnu-wise
iron plume
some people make it up to be because we're not in a world where it isn't yet and they relate it to real life
olive karma
And people shouldn't make a big deal of it. But they are, it shouldn't change how we look at soldier. OW never intended for this to be big, but rather just a little timbit
iron plume
it's not a big deal in the story precisely because it's not in that world
regal coyote
the only thtat change on 76 is that we KNOW he has not been a da, despite 76 being out dad
iron plume
and you're right that it doesn't change soldier
olive karma
Agreed
regal coyote
kinda sad he has not been a dad
olive karma
😢
iron plume
I understand people who "make a big deal out of it" positively
because we don't live in a world where it isn't
and thus it is to those people
iron plume
but not the people who go on to bitch about it, because that's just making yourself angry for zero reason
regal coyote
most likely he is a dad, like sadman/spawn looking at his family
his wife humping another guy now (and maybe a evil fucker)
if yopou read spawn
fiery tundra
The lore about soldier's sexuality is currently banned on the server.
olive karma
OK then
fiery tundra
So if you could steer away from that topic, that'd be great.
peak escarp
sure thing
fiery tundra
olive karma
Cool
regal coyote
but if it is cause of russia then i would protest
olive karma
All good, thanks jack
fiery tundra
@tight dew That's not a question for #lore-discussion
Feel free to talk about that in #general-discussion though.
iron plume
just what he has in the bio
olive karma
I'm very curious to his past, and what he has done around the world
iron plume
we haven't seen him anywhere else, except for one panel in Reflections
olive karma
I wonder if there are any secret plans behind his lore. I don't know. I forgot his name, but the man who makes lore isn't exactly my favorite
worthy rose
A zen cinimatic would be dope
just normal labor omnic wandering around and achieves enlightenment
buddha af
olive karma
It should me the longest lore video if there were to be one
peak escarp
I'd like to learn more about his disagreement with Mondatta
olive karma
cause of its dopeness
peak escarp
and maybe see how Mondatta's assassination affected him
olive karma
Or what he did traveling around the world enlightening people. One of the few more facts we do have is that he changes whoever's path he crosses(apparently)
Both
peak escarp
I wonder if Mei ever ran into Zen/Genji while she was in Nepal
olive karma
What about a genji lore video that showed him and zen training
peak escarp
that would be nice, but it would also be nice to see some Zen lore that doesn't involve Genji
pliant sparrow
Knowing where zen came from would be nice
iron plume
alive as in not dead?
pseudo vale
Zen is dead 🦀 brigitte killed him
fair widget
okay my bad wasnt tryin to instigate shit posting
just saying, we know nothing
i wanna hear about zen
iron plume
I wasn't
fair widget
no not you
iron plume
okay but my question
do you mean as in "not dead" or like
philosophically
fair widget
no it was just a figure of speech, meaning "is he even alive, do we even know that?"
iron plume
oh aight
fair widget
was the comic sighting of him with genji his last known location?
also that was after genji saw hanzo right?
iron plume
reflections should be after dragons, yes
regal coyote
^
fair widget
nice
livid mist
Soldier 76 represents old-school first person shooter gamers
You get called gay often in those shooters
Soldier 76 is gay
huh
it makes sense
worthy rose
because she is
fair widget
zarya is a woman
worthy rose
the official website says it
empty nebula
Lol
fair widget
aleksandra "zarya" zaryanova, 28, female
worthy rose
Give me two other typos in the official hero pages and I'll believe you.
@tight dew you're either willfully ignorant or trolling. Zarya is just a buff chick. So either you don't believe massively buff chicks exist cause you don't believe women can get swole or you're trolling people here and in either case it doesn't look good for you
fair widget
mute in 3...2...
worthy rose
So basically you're saying
Looks like a woman
Acts like a woman
Consistantly referred to as a woman
fair widget
you're not discussing lore. you're wilfully ignoring facts OR trolling.
fair widget
<@&397922982632226816>
peak escarp
Zarya is female, end of story
worthy rose
You're ignoring all the evidence to get your conclusion.
I think there's a rule about trolling somewhere
fair widget
"[Serious] Discussion strictly related to the Lore of Overwatch. Fanfiction is not canon and should not be discussed here. Shitposting will result in loss of access."
worthy rose
- Disruptive behavior is not tolerated. This includes, but is not limited to, spam, scam/referral links, harassment, unnecessary pings, and misuse of text and voice channels.
I'd call this spam.
short scaffold
!mute 532619051470684170 Trolling in fanart
twilit nacelleBOT
👌 Muted Doddly#3606 indefinitely (Case #22896)
short scaffold
Back on topic please :)
fair widget
sorted
worthy rose
The cavalry's here!
fair widget
it WOULD be nice to see a zarya short though
carrying on from searching thought might make a comic unlikely
peak escarp
I'd love to see the struggle Zarya had to go through in choosing between competing as a world champion and fighting to defend her country
worthy rose
^
fair widget
that would make a good short story
peak escarp
she gave up her dream to protect Russia
worthy rose
If anyone needs the attention, it our floaty boi zen. We don't know crap
She currently has some lore though, I think they're going to focus on Zen and Lucio
Maybe Hammond
She has some but by no means is it a lot
peak escarp
it's hard to tell what they're going to focus on
fair widget
well it would be nice to hear from all of the heroes stories, zarya included
but those ones do have the least
peak escarp
it seems like they're just telling whatever story they feel like
or whatever is relevant to the immediate plot
worthy rose
I think there are two kinds of lore: Fill in about what heroes are doing and advance the OW vs Talon thing
peak escarp
since Bastet ends with Soldier and Ana going to meet with "old friends" (which might be Winston and Tracer)
fair widget
id split it into 3. talon thing, advance ow, and then fill in
i hope it is winston and tracer theyre meeting
i still wish mercy would be alerted by ana or something
peak escarp
she needs something to pull her back into the story
Mercy is the only former OW member we haven't seen since the recall
worthy rose
I wouldn't be too sure about the Winston Tracer thing Doc. Idk just something tells me Soldier isn't too keen to go to them. In fact it feels like they're adverse to meeting old work buddies and friends
That's the vibe I think soldier and Ana give off anyway
Definitely going to see Mercy.
fair widget
what was said about where they were headed after bastet?
worthy rose
We've barely gotten any lore on her, and she's nearby.
peak escarp
"We need to pay a visit to some old friends.”
worthy rose
That could be interpreted as attacking Talon
peak escarp
I don't think they're going to see Mercy
fair widget
it could but thats not so likely
worthy rose
Hmm...
fair widget
also yeah the mercy thing is hopeful
worthy rose
I think old friends in this scenario would be more nefarious
fair widget
it would make sense if they meant tracer and winston but there was no mention of motivation to want to go and see them
peak escarp
could be
worthy rose
like going to hunt down reaper and moira/
peak escarp
but just before that Ana mentions letting go of Overwatch, implying that Jack hasn't let go, and he still wants to go back
fair widget
that's true. there was heavy emphasis on jack having not let go....
worthy rose
I think that's more of an emphasis on Jack's need for revenge. From him first meeting Ana she could tell he hasn't slept in days and that he was also starving and she could feel traces of the Jack she knew but he had changed
That shows obsessive behavior on Jack's part more than is want for revenge and justice than for Overwatch to be brought back
worthy rose
I do think the Sombra theory is on the money tho
like super on the money
given this short story
fair widget
what sombra theory?
worthy rose
That Sombra is playing everyone and manipulating the strings to get closer to her conspiracy theory about OW illuminati
In the short story soldier had gotten info on where Ana was but they never said who
fair widget
i get the first half, what do you mean her conspiracy theory about OW illuminati
worthy rose
Sombra we've seen work for Talon and isn't very loyal to them or their cause
worthy rose
So do you remember the sombra origin story where she was caught by something and had to go undercover and upgrade her tech?
I would elaborate more easily if i had permission to post pics but I don't currently
fair widget
there isn't an official one but check youtube @idle wraith
it's okay im listening
i remember that
idle wraith
worthy rose
So basically Sombra's origin story showed that her main motivation is to find the people who "really run the world" so that they can't have power over her again. In doing so she formed a web of connections to said conspiracy (which btw is labeled as the Sombra Conspiracy by the community) and a while back there was an ARG by blizzard for Sombra which revealed Ana so in that context, Sombra revealed to us that she knew who Ana was and that Ana was alive.
idle wraith
Surprised it was that easy to find
worthy rose
So in this context we can almost for certain say that Sombra was the one who gave Soldier 76 information on where to find Ana which in theory would be a part of a bigger plan
fair widget
i never looked too deep into sombras conspiracy because it seemed so open ended which would get on my last nerve but its definitely cool and important
worthy rose
My theory on how the story would go would be like this and feel free to disagree it's just my personal theory
or let me rephrase and this is how I think the entire story has gone and will most likely go
dire timber
it is somewhat implied that it's Sombra who works as Soldier's informant
fair widget
i took it as fact that she was in fairness
dire timber
we do know for a fact that he does have some sort of informant unknown to Ana
and Lynx noted a connection between Sombra and Soldier: 76
worthy rose
Phase 1. Overwatch shut down and rebirth by winston and tracer
Phase 2. The grouping of old Overwatch members and neutral characters to eventually tackle Talon
Phase 3. The Overwatch vs Talon show down
Phase 4. Tackling the Sombra Conspiracy with the remaining members of Talon and Overwatch who fought afterwards once realized they had all been manipulated.
And in between phase 2 and 3 we might get more side stories like Mei's atmospheric anomalies, or McCree's pink cube from the train that will be elaborated on further.
that's just my very general thought on how the story will most likely go
fair widget
pretty interesting take
but it doesnt account for a few things..
like doomfist wanting to start war, definitely not at the hands of sombra
dire timber
my theory is that the "conspiracy" is a red herring in some way
and that the "eye" is not what Sombra assumed it to be
crisp kayak
Jack and Vincent spray is the best spray.
won't change my mind.
fair widget
agreed
dire timber
I'm gonna use that spray every time I play Soldier
worthy rose
Doomfist starting a war is like ehh but to be fair I see it as the dominos have already tipped and doom wanted to do the tipping which he can't cause it's already in motion
fair widget
its tied with mercys spray with her and the other female characters
crisp kayak
Tried him today, I find it fun to play him. And I bound the spray
worthy rose
Russia is already fighting the second omnic Crisis, Kings row is a segregation nightmare, and korea is fighting a giant omnic from the sea
rest of the world I'm not so sure how they handle it but numbani is pretty free and i'd assume america as well
frosty shell
As for your map @peak escarp Roadhog & Junkrat also visited Japan in "A Moment in Crime"
Also, Torb went to Kurjikstan though we don't know where that is
frosty shell
yes
One idea I had for "Reaper and Soldier tell their own versions of what happened at OW HQ" is that Morrison blames Moira for turning Reyes crazy, but Reyes believes that he was always crazy
peak escarp
I did have Junk and Hog in Japan though
worthy rose
meh not a fan of that one tbh
I'm more of a fan of Overwatch being taken by traitors and the building falling and Reaper taking whatever was left of Moira's research and taking it and finishing his transformation cause at that point, moira would have already been fired due to retribution in rialto
frosty shell
oh, I missed Hog & Rat in Japan
I think it's possible they could've robbed a different arcade than the one in Hanamura
though it's fine to put the dot there
I wonder if all the business in Hanamura is/was controlled by the Shimadas
gritty sparrow
The words and texts in the arcade were all japanese though, so very likely
worthy rose
...
HANAMURA IS IN JAPAN THO
AND THAT'S A JAPANESE ARCADE
saying the shimadas ran the arcade cause there is japanese is like saying the queen of england rules all of europe cause they speak english
gritty sparrow
you mean the shimada's?
worthy rose
yes mb but point still stands
gritty sparrow
well... Hanamura is only a small village, not a whole country or city
frosty shell
I'm saying the ran the businesses in Hanamura
frosty shell
Not all of Japan
That city is Tokyo
Hanamura is just the map
As far as we know, at least
gritty sparrow
"Hanamura is a well-preserved village of unassuming shops and quiet streets, known mostly for its idyllic cherry blossom festival every spring. But to those who know its history, Hanamura is the ancestral home of the Shimada ninja clan, which had grown over the centuries to become a powerful criminal organization. As its neighboring cities expanded, Hanamura was encircled, and eventually it was incorporated as a district within a larger city. For now, the imposing compound of the Shimada family lies empty, but that peace may soon be broken."
very likely most business and things like that are somehow controlled or at least affected by the Shimada clan
at least in or around Hanamura
Imagine how strong Hanzo's and Genji's father was... knowing how strong both of them are
peak escarp
it's supposed to be a village within Tokyo
rapid matrix
peak escarp
2019 has only just started
I know it's a popular meme to say we only get one lore per year
but with comics coming back, it's likely that the story will continue at a faster pace
more on par with 2017 than 2018
fair widget
pretty hopeful that short stories will be somewhat frequent as well
peak escarp
previous comics were 12 pages
and they have said they want to do longer, "higher quality" comics
fringe blade
I wish that if they release comics, they release important information in them as well
If it takes them that long to make
like REALLY important info
worthy rose
Some give insights on character lives and stuff and other's are much more plot driven. I'm fairly certain that Reflections was a pretty character driven type thing
peak escarp
I think character info is very important
worthy rose
it is but I think people would like a mixture of both character driven and plot progression
peak escarp
if I had to pick between plot progression and character development, I'd pick plot
but only because we've had more character development
crisp kayak
1 lore a month? Or more
worthy rose
the amount of money
It is, kind of
i would throw at blizzard for a story mode
A legit story mode would be really expensive
basically a whole new game
So they made these missions instead.
mhmm ^
It also decreases the amount of other lore they have to make
ehh debateable
timid eagle
I liked the new short story, and I'm curious to see what else is in-store.
But I'll try to keep my expectations in-check, given that anything can change.
olive karma
How's lore chat doing?
timid eagle
I'm just being patient.
timid eagle
I know most of these voice lines are not cannon, but man, I wouldn't mind some of these being added to the main game. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOftVsWLjlU
worthy rose
I mean I'm personally waiting to see my theories on reaper being confirmed
peak escarp
I don't have many theories, but the ones I do have I'm very certain of
jade epoch
https://imgur.com/a/aWqcD9G
Just noticed how similar the head on temple of anubis and the masks of these talon members are. Orisa was released with Uprising. Blackwatch didn't have a hero released with it (from the event). Although the masks in both pictures aren't exactly identical, I believe the talon skins could be legendary skins. The same way Orisa's default skin isn't the one used in Uprising.\
worthy rose
Those literally look nothing alike.
If you mean the talon minions being released as skins, I could see that happening with some of them.
Ashe joins up with talon => Talon Ashe with heavy assault B.O.B
But in general, it seems unlikely. In any case, the release of the skins would be completely unrelated to lore.
pastel steppe
@jade epoch isn't the head in anubis one of the characters from the 2017 early concept art? I could've sworn there was a guy near winston who looked like him
limpid agate
@jade epoch That head is not related to Talon
That head was in the game in a very early build based in concept art of the original team
That head is a 1:1 copy of the head of one of the original characters
limpid agate
Its not hero 30
jade epoch
Yeah you're right
turns out that head has been in the game alot longer than people thought too
past panther
So are there people who only got to join the new Overwatch and never were in the old Overwatch?
Ex. is Zarya a hero who's only been in the new Overwatch and not in the old one?
If I remember right ex. Tracer was in the old Overwatch for a little while
jade epoch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LV9B5F62EM Heres a video about it. I also managed to find, what seems to be the same head, on a very early version of the game http://prntscr.com/m66ep0. Pharah's rocket isn't textured, the abilities look different in the bottom right, the map doesnt even seem finished as seen here http://prntscr.com/m66eck
past panther
Oh wait there's no new Overwatch oh well
jade epoch
Not the best picture, but it seems very similar. According to the youtube video I found this in these were recordings of early playtests, dated April 2014
fair widget
@peak escarp what’s the one that you’re certain of?
timber plank
obtuse perch
Hey, im new to the games lore, but from little what i have seen, its AMAZING. Could you guys give some tips to where to start researching the lore? Maybe in a chronological way idk
peak escarp
check the pins
obtuse perch
Thanks ^^
past panther
I think the comics are only in PDF form and they're free
peak escarp
all of the comics except Retribution are viewable online through Blizzard's comic reader
but you can also download PDFs if you want
regal coyote
i suggest watching the cinematics first
the easiest thing to do, then comics
then if you want you can read up on stuff like the ????? and other atlas posts
peak escarp
should Ana's Bastet and DVa's Nano be added to the list of canon skins?
iron plume
it's on an in-universe ad on the Busan lucioball map
worthy rose
ah
limpid agate
!!loreHeroes bastion
twilit nacelleBOT
To learn more, please visit https://playoverwatch.com/en-us/heroes/bastion
limpid agate
@dire timber
dire timber
nice
limpid agate
I'll do it for lorewiki too
dire timber
I think you should add #story at the end of the link
that way, the link takes people directly to the story tab
limpid agate
That's a bit more difficult with how it works, unless you want a seperate call for loreHeroes and loreHero
As it is, no variable works too
!!loreHeroes
twilit nacelleBOT
To learn more, please visit https://playoverwatch.com/en-us/heroes/
dire timber
https://playoverwatch.com/en-us/heroes/#story won't do anything at all though
limpid agate
!!loreWiki Hamid_Faisal
twilit nacelleBOT
For more information about the game, please refer to the wiki: https://overwatch.gamepedia.com/Hamid_Faisal
limpid agate
This now works too
dire timber
!!loreHeroes bastion
twilit nacelleBOT
To learn more, please visit https://playoverwatch.com/en-us/heroes/bastion#story
tepid abyss
Pog
valid shell
@tepid abyss ?
fair widget
2 !!
limpid agate
Also you need trusted to use the commands
hasty surge
Why is nano cola a canon skin?
I doubt dva actually had her meka decorated as nano cola
peak escarp
not the meka
but her bodysuit is seen in ads in-universe
Pajamei and Formal Doomfist are canon but their weapons aren't
valid shell
@hasty surge Why do you doubt that?
Professional auto racers cover their cars in sponsors.
If D.Va's advertising Nana Cola, I wouldn't put it past them to repaint her MEKA.
hasty surge
the meka wasn't seen in game universe
but doc gave the explanation
sure but I would believe we would have seen posters of it
regal coyote
Well at the least it might be a sticker paint or soemthing during some propaganda show
dense estuary
Her MEKA also has ads on it like a race car does.
sharp crater
Who's the voice of echo?
peak escarp
I don't think it's been revealed/announced
peak escarp
I wonder if we'll ever find out the circumstances of Sojiro's death
there's a thread on the forums discussing it, and someone suggested that the clan elders might have had him assassinated to make way for Hanzo, who they felt could be more easily manipulated into doing things their way
that is an interesting scenario
maybe the elders didn't like him turning down the invite to join Talon
hasty surge
Then the clan elders are with talon then
peak escarp
maybe
peak escarp
in-universe? Russia doesn't like Overwatch
fleet furnace
I love zenys lore
fair widget
probably something to do with he fact that overwatch didnt prevent what happened there maybe
but yeah interesting
id like to hear more about it
peak escarp
iirc, they were the only country to shut down an omnium without Overwatch's help
but it reactivated and now they have to fight again
frosty shell
Sojiro could've just died of natural causes
Also, we know Ana is worried she might still be on the watchlist at Volskaya so maybe that's what happened between them and Russsia
I assume the Shimada clan were a Yakuza group that kept a low profile until they reemerged during the aftermath Omnic Crisis
valid shell
@frosty shell "Untimely"
I doubt Sojiro's death would have been described as such if it was like
frosty shell
ok
valid shell
A stroke.
frosty shell
He could've died unexpectedly young
valid shell
He could have hit a patch of black ice and spun off the road.
But this is Overwatch.
And Blizzard.
Dude was definitely bumped.
frosty shell
it's possible Talon could've killed him too
Perhaps because they thought Hanzo would be more willing to join
valid shell
The Omnic Crisis might have started because a janitor spilled coffee on a keyboard and punched in some bad code while trying to wipe it off.
frosty shell
lol
valid shell
But that's probably not the case.
patent flint
We just not gonna talk about how soldier is more than likely homosexual?
valid shell
@patent flint We did. At length.
patent flint
damn must have missed it
granite gazelle
Big oof
granite gazelle
Cny?
limpid agate
Chinese New Year
granite gazelle
Thatd be cool tho im just as content with the map theme change
slender lintel
small oof
granite gazelle
Oh
peak escarp
I hope all the mini events we get are lore related
granite gazelle
How could chinese new year be related to lore?
peak escarp
I wonder if they'll elaborate on Reyes's family next
or maybe tell us more about Sam and Ana
dawn knot
why?
limpid agate
They are misc family members. That's all we need to know.
Namedrops at most I would say are fine
Giving more focus to family we already know that is inconsequential would feel tiresome.
The last few friends and familu we got were Vincent (useless and controversial), Dae-Hyun (accomplished nothing), and Ashe (who was released on the spot).
Sam or Reaper's family don't seem to fill the last category.
Nor do they seem to be interesting NPCs like Bob or Lynx
limpid agate
Sam is a non combatant
He is a public servant that was designed specifically to contrast Ana's soldier background
There is nothing interesting about him other than he is not Egyptian.
dense estuary
Dea-Hyun is effectively an assistant for D.Va but when shes on mission he seems to effectively be her "Houston"
though better term would be "Mission control"
limpid agate
Even then
The short did a bad job showing that
And he did next to nothing while D.Va did everything
Even when she asked for his help, she did everything herself anyways
He started the self destruct, and thats about it.
wraith zealot
Well he cant really help as mission control other than giving info and that was a suprise attack
He wasnt shown as a soldier like dva but rather someone really close to her to expand her story
In shooting star we found out that dva isnt just a gaming girl that takes dverything as a joke like interactions seem to show
Dae-hyoun is basicly that character dva cares
Which is why finding something like that for reaper
Would show more about jis motives on joining talon other than
Overwatch did me wrong
Maybe even a future character
sand nest
true
regal coyote
@limpid agate to be fair sam also work as the sole parent after ana is gone.
And it does seem for convenience or otherwise he is of native blood.
Which is cool one way or another, since they rarely have a spot ing ames
ON MAPS, the amount of lore that is meaningful in a map can vary lots, look at blizzyland
wraith zealot
ı think we will see sam later on when ana decides to reveal she is alive to both phara and her dad
acoustic glacier
So guess who learned Symmetra has autism last night and is freaking out about it because AAAAAAAAA YES
regal coyote
lemme guess, a fortnite player?
since all fortnite players have it to start with
but i would say sym is nicely done.
they show it a bit but never focus on it.
regal coyote
be nice, dont hate people with autism
fair widget
i think you're missing the point hamstermilk
she is indeed. i'm sure its nice to have that @acoustic glacier
acoustic glacier
bruh I love your CC
iron plume
don't pay much attention to hamstermilk, he's kinda like the lore-d's carnival sideshow
acoustic glacier
Note taken haha
fair widget
makes sense 😛
fair widget
lmfao
limpid agate
Since we have some downtime
What would you like to see out of this channel, or the bot commands I've been making?
Or the wiki too, I've got more downtime than I thought I would.
granite gazelle
What commands do you have so far
limpid agate
!!loreList
twilit nacelleBOT
Here is a list of all #lore-discussion specific tags:
loreComics, loreHeroes, loreOnly, loreShorts, loreText, loreWiki
limpid agate
Wiki and heroes can also take a variable that links to a direct wiki page or hero bio
noble cliff
so what does everyone think of bastet?
limpid agate
Predictions I try to keep out of things like this, to prevent a bias.
And i already have a lot of biases.
@noble cliff Some liked it, some didn't. It developed the characters and did some good world building, but didn't move us anywhere plotwise.
I'm most interesting in the Anubis information we got
wraith zealot
apart from the whole soldier is gay thing ı think it was good. dont get me wrong tho ı dont mind him turning out to be gay or any character turning out that way. I just hate how everyone got pissed at it or took it like a SJW movement
ı actually liked how we know more about past of jack morrison
and would like to know more about him during omnic crisis
ım just hoping people can see the story rather than character's preferences
limpid agate
Gay aside
reef thicket
i mean
limpid agate
It was a good development
peak escarp
someone pointed out that the 4 artifacts that Ana found represented Ana, Jack, Gabe and Fareeha
reef thicket
from our prespective it really does look like blizzard pulled out something for the sjws
idk
¯_(ツ)_/¯
limpid agate
The best since read Masquerade... But that's also because we got so little since Masquerade
peak escarp
Bastet mask for Ana, ram-headed jar for Jack, empty canopic jar for Gabe, and green falcon sculpture for Fareeha
I can't see it as a social justice moment, since I know that it has probably been in the pipeline for some time
peak escarp
writing and illustrations take time
wraith zealot
ı agree with u on that
peak escarp
the ram is associated with Khnum, the god responsible for creating mankind out of clay
maybe symbolizing Jack's role as the head of Overwatch?
could also be a reference to Jack being Catholic, since Jesus was sometimes associated with the ram in ancient depictions
wraith zealot
ı think that might be hint for an upcoming hero
peak escarp
Ana did mention she wanted to send the artifacts to Dr. Faisal
limpid agate
Yes, that is the hint
Been expecting him to show up this year.
And here he is
Echo
A member of Talon (May be Hamid)```
Were the predictions for heroes I made on new years eveWe still don't know his allegences, but I hope to learn more about Iraqiana Jones.
peak escarp
I hope the ending of Bastet means their plotline is going to converge with the main plotline
fair widget
i loved bastet
i want more lore in that format
also agreed to above. that would be nice
finally
peak escarp
"old friends" could be a lot of people
dense estuary
I did not know folks freaked out on the reveal of Morrison having a BF but I am not surprised they did because internet.
That said I never knew he once considered having a relationship, Always imagined him as too invested in duty to even try dating.
peak escarp
Winston/Tracer, Torbjorn, Reaper
limpid agate
Always imagined him as too invested in duty to even try dating
And thats exactly what happened.
peak escarp
his attempt at a relationship was before he became invested in his duty
and fell apart because of it
limpid agate
Once he enlisted, he went solo
peak escarp
Vincent couldn't handle being a long-distance military boyfriend
dense estuary
And once the crisis ended and OW was still going he probably would have been a target for Talon if they had stayed together.
peak escarp
Vincent had moved on, and Jack isn't a homewrecker
dense estuary
oh I mean if they had stayed a thing
Jack has work to do and Talon to dismantle before he settles down
dense estuary
what will be interesting is will he reveal himself as still active to NewOW
fair widget
i’d like to think that’s the next step
dense estuary
the big challenge of course is NewOW still needs permission from the UN to actually become Overwatch again.
peak escarp
so far the UN has said they're acting illegally, but hasn't done anything to stop them
fair widget
they’re technically already verging on illegal activity so
dense estuary
When I ponder how Winston keeps it funded I tend to think OW has always had some shell companies even back when they operated legally
peak escarp
In its entirety, the UN's terse statement reads: "The United Nations has not authorized any Overwatch operations. The organization’s charter remains revoked." Further questions from this reporter were met with hostility or silence.
dense estuary
they did huge amounts of technological R&D during and after the crisis and I bet they still hold the rights to those patents
dense estuary
Kinda sounds like the UN does not have the support to turn OW back on but they know they are needed again.
So they just kinda go "Yea its illegal but they have not done anything dumb so eh"
peak escarp
or they might be in denial that Overwatch is coming back
worthy rose
To me, it sounds like they don't care much because there are bigger problems, and OW hasn't done anything morally objectionable.
peak escarp
"That's not Overwatch. Overwatch's charter was revoked."
old breach
how old is mcree
limpid agate
37
peak escarp
37
old breach
when did the deadlock gang start
old breach
coz i heard something about the 1970's which makes no sense
worthy rose
yes, in this universe, the 70's were 110 years ago
peak escarp
McCree's tattoo says "Est. 1976"
old breach
ah thats it
peak escarp
which is probably a reference to something, not the actual foundng date of the gang
McCree was busted by Overwatch when he was about 17, so the gang would have been founded before that (based on the picture of the founders, maybe when he was 15-16?)
old breach
oh
peak escarp