(she did, kinda)
#lore-discussion
worthy rose
limpid agate
But she was born 40 years ago
worthy rose
talking about health-wise, not phyiscally
limpid agate
Thats why her age is 31 and not 40
worthy rose
respiratory systems,
limpid agate
Health wise, she was frozen
limpid agate
They're using the same science as Futurama
Fry is not 1000 years old
Hes 20 something
reef thicket
I wish mei died with her friends in that cryo pod
worthy rose
oh
worthy rose
huh, tracer became an agent 2-3 years before overwatch's disbandment
quite interesting to know
wait what tracer even born when the omnic crisis was on-going
e.g. when balderich was invited into OW
i assume not
probably a few years after the crisis
peak escarp
nope
reef thicket
I wish tracer would blink out of existence
peak escarp
Tracer was born near the very end of the crisis
worthy rose
ah
reef thicket
Do we know who her parents are though
peak escarp
Overwatch shut down most of the omniums
reef thicket
oh
worthy rose
the onmic crisis occurred in 2044-2046
peak escarp
and I guess the omnics surrendered or something
reef thicket
What do omniums even look like
peak escarp
no idea
reef thicket
Hm
dense estuary
probably automated factories
peak escarp
lasted a decade?
worthy rose
yes
dense estuary
not unlike where cars are built except capable of zero meatbag assit
reef thicket
peak escarp
most sources say it started ~30 years ago and ended ~25 years ago
that's not a decade
dense estuary
imagine something like this but turning out Bastions
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/82/fe/64/82fe6420f9dafbe7a91f7767519ccaec.jpg
reef thicket
And the other little shits
reef thicket
And oh
worthy rose
OW wiki
peak escarp
gamepedia
Jewvia manages that one
it's as reliable as you can get for open-source knowledge
reef thicket
I kove ur profile pic doctor
worthy rose
26 years ago
Overwatch's strikes against the omnic command and control structure render the majority of the omnic armies inert. (reference needed)
The Omnic Crisis is declared over. (reference needed)
Overwatch commences transition to a peacetime organization; Jack Morison replaces Gabriel Reyes as Overwatch Strike Commander while Gabriel Reyes is shifted to command of the newly-formed Blackwatch. (reference needed)
Lena Oxton born.[22]
Lúcio Correia dos Santos born.[23]
reef thicket
Lmao
worthy rose
i believe lena was born directly after the crisis
peak escarp
in Soldier's origin story he says "I led Overwatch for 20 years"
his leadership ended 5 years ago when he was declared dead
so that puts the end of the crisis at 25 years ago
worthy rose
he was presumed dead wayyyy after the crisis dude
peak escarp
yes
peak escarp
5 years ago from present day
as I just said
20 years before 5 years ago, Jack Morrison was given the position of Strike Commander
worthy rose
"On Reinhardt's Hero Page, It says that the Omnic Crisis takes place 30 years before the present day, and on Orisa's Hero Page it says it took place 20 years ago. Micheal Chu himself said the Omnic Crisis took place 25 years ago, 'give or take a few years'. Due to the huge cultural impact on the Overwatch Universe that the Crisis created, especially evident in the older heroes like Soldier: 76 and Reinhardt.
Taking all the seemingly conflicting information into account, I assume the Crisis started 30 years before the events of the game and ended 20 years before the events of the game, with the war happening over a period of 10 Years. When you also consider the Blizzcon Info of the Crisis taking place "30 years from now", with "now" being 2016, we get out answer.
The game takes place in 2076, with the Omnic Crisis taking place between 2046 and 2056 and Overwatch being founded within the year of the beginning of the Crisis (entirely plausible as the Omniums that started the war were placed all over the world and attacked simultaneously without warning, promoting an immediate response from the UN as countries were not holding territory). Public interest in Overwatch begins to fall in 2066, the Kings Row Uprising takes place in 2069, and Overwatch collapses in 2071
For those interested, here are the birth/construction years of the Heroes with my estimate of the Overwatch timeline.
Genji: 2041
McCree: 2039
Pharah: 2034
Reaper: 2020 (age is an estimate)
Soldier 76: 2021 (age is an estimate)
Sombra: 2046
Tracer: 2050
Bastion: 2046
Hanzo: 2038
Junkrat: 2051
Mei: 2036
Torbjorn: 2019
Widowmaker: 2043
D.Va: 2057
Orisa: 2076
Reinhardt: 2015
Roadhog: 2028
Winston: 2049
Zarya: 2048
Ana: 2016
Lucio: 2050
Mercy: 2039
Symmetra: 2048
Zenyatta: 2056"
boom
answers
peak escarp
all the dates we have for Overwatch are a mix of rounded and exact numbers, so its difficult to figure out the timeline exactly
worthy rose
omnic crisis must have lasted a decade or a few years over
Tracer was born in 2050. Omnic Crisis lasts between 2046-2056. Tracer was 6 when the Omnic Crisis ended.
Tracer became an Overwatch agent in 2069.
peak escarp
your dates are wrong
worthy rose
according to that post
peak escarp
based on incorrect information
worthy rose
it's estimated so
KrevarrToday at 8:02 PM
the onmic crisis occurred in 2044-2046
that post says 2046
peak escarp
we don't know exactly what year Overwatch is set in, so we can't calculate what year these events take place
worthy rose
he's just estimating, some of it is probably incorrect
yeah
only estimates, but we know that tracer became an overwatch agent in the late 2060s / early-early 2070s
she was born during the omnic crisis, but of course never fought in it
peak escarp
and Orisa's bio doesn't say the omnic crisis happened 20 years ago - it says it ended 20 years ago
After the war, they were taken out of production, along with many of the other models used during the crisis. Twenty years later, Numbani revived and recommissioned the OR14 program to protect the city from external threats.
20 years after the war, the OR14s were recommissioned to protect Numbani and were destroyed by Doomfist shortly after being activated
but Soldier's origin trailer says the crisis ended 25 years ago
worthy rose
we can say that soldier 76 is in his 50s
reinhardt is essentially the oldest character i believe
peak escarp
In the narration for the King’s Row Uprising Origin Story, Tracer says “20 years after we won the war against the omnics”. The King’s Row Uprising took place 7 years before Overwatch’s present, placing the end of the crisis 27 years ago
so we don't have an exact timeline of when the crisis ended
only a range - between 27 and 20 years ago
worthy rose
so you're saying that the omnic crisis ended in late 2040s..?
or early 2050s..?
"The King’s Row Uprising took place 7 years before Overwatch’s present, placing the end of the crisis 27 years ago"
even though it started in the 2040s
peak escarp
as for when the crisis started, most sources say 30 years ago but Reinhardt's bio says Overwatch was founded "Over thirty years ago", which would mean that the crisis started even earlier than that
worthy rose
could be misinformation, we will probably never know
peak escarp
using years gets confusing
it's better to say "X years ago" or "X years before Recall"
worthy rose
according to the estimates above (esimates) tracer become an overwatch agent 13 years after the omnic crisis
remember those are estimates
peak escarp
because that "60 years in the future" that is Overwatch's present day is probably an estimate too
so you can't just assume 2076 is the right year
worthy rose
gosh wish OW lore wasn't so slow and they released information confirming this talk
peak escarp
here's some solid dates we do know:
- Brigitte was born 23 years ago, after Operation: White Dome, which was an Overwatch mission to clear out some omnic resistance post-crisis
- Tracer is 26, so she's 3 years older than Brigitte
worthy rose
mhm
we know that tracer was during born during the omnic crisis, right?
surely she was according to the estimates above
peak escarp
so by 23 years ago, the crisis was over
yes, it's likely that Tracer was born during the last few years of the crisis
worthy rose
according to the estimates i posted she was 6 when the crisis ended
however the estimate of the decade long omnic crisis could be incorrect
peak escarp
the only heroes born post-crisis would be Brigitte, Zenyatta, DVa and Hammond
and maybe Junkrat, depending on when the crisis actually ended
worthy rose
he's like a year younger than tracer or something
idk
does the honor and glory short give you chills
it does to me
doesn't make me cry though
i mean it almost did
peak escarp
Junkrat is 25
Tracer and Lucio are 26
Honor and Glory has the biggest emotional impact for me
the music gets me every time
tranquil sun
yeah, i always get chills during that part
and huh, i thought Junkrat was around 30
solemn pike
Junkrat is a dirt boi
worthy rose
wasteland life made him look super old I guess
dire timber
@peak escarp why are you placing the Omnic Crisis at 25 years in the past, while every reference to it is either "30 years ago" in comparison to the present day or "20 years ago" in comparison to the Fall of Overwatch?
canon material makes no real distinction between when the Omnic Crisis began or ended
both of these points in the timeline are placed at roughly 30 years ago
so, when describing which heroes were born after the Omnic Crisis
you should mention all heroes under 30
Tracer, Brig, D.va, Lucio, Zarya, Symmetra, Hammond
regal coyote
actually we CAN assume the probable year of the "current" overwatch time
i think someone used the calendar in shooting star as the basis and comes out with a few highly probable year
dire timber
hmmm
regal coyote
dire timber
that doesn't help pinpoint the year – I think almost every year has at least one Thursday 19
it would help pinpoint the month, perhaps
if we knew the year
regal coyote
think they also match it to the phases of the moon in that explanation soemone did
regal coyote
if only they would put lunar dates on the calendar as well like some korean calrendar
then we can pin point it
knotty juniper
Bastion is a dude
iron plume
bastion is gender-neutral
peak escarp
@dire timber like I explained, there are several sources that directly reference the end of the omnic crisis
Soldier's origin story ("I led Overwatch for 20 years"), the King's Row Uprising origin story ("20 years after we won the war against the omnics"), Orisa's bio ("After the war, they were taken out of production [...] Twenty years later, Numbani revived and recommissioned the OR14 program") all specifically mention the end of the crisis
I feel like we have this conversation every week
"20 years" is most likely a rounded number, but it's a bit of a stretch to round 30 years into 20, so it's logical to assume that the crisis lasted for a few years (at least 3, possibly as many as 10)
dire timber
@peak escarp like I said
they use "20 years ago" while using the Uprising/Retribution/Fall of Overwatch as reference point
they use "30 years ago" while using present day as reference point
peak escarp
Orisa's bio uses present day as a reference point
since the OR15s were commissioned shortly before Doomfist destroyed them, possibly only months before
dire timber
yes, which means that that the OR15 program was started around the time Overwatch fell
peak escarp
that's not what it says
dire timber
"Twenty years later, Numbani revived and recommissioned the OR14 program"
that's exactly what it said
it doesn't say "Orisa was created"
peak escarp
Originally put into service before the Omnic Crisis, the OR14 "Idina" line of security robots was built in Nigeria's massive manufacturing omnium. After the war, they were taken out of production, along with many of the other models used during the crisis. Twenty years later, Numbani revived and recommissioned the OR14 program to protect the city from external threats. These new OR15s were deployed for a short time before they were destroyed in an attack by Doomfist.
the full quote says that the OR15s were deployed a short time before Doomfist destroyed them
we know he destroyed them after the Recall
dire timber
hm, could it be that a couple of years passed between the beginning of the program, and the actual deployment?
dire timber
I swear, I'll try to look for a flashback line that says "the Omnic Crisis started 20 years ago", or a present day line that says "the Omnic Crisis ended 30 years ago"
just to put this to rest
peak escarp
all we have are conflicting dates that use rounded numbers
the only solid number we have is for Operation: White Dome
23 years ago they were clearing out "a remaining pocket of omnic resistance"
which could be post-crisis or towards the very end
but there is enough to imply that the crisis lasted some time
based on the phrasing, I would say it's post-crisis
frosty shell
Winston says "30 years ago, the Omnics declared war"
And Bastion was created 30 years ago
Bastion was part of the battle in which Reinhardt fought, so Overwatch coudn't have been founded more than 30 years ago because the Stuttgart/Eichenwalde offensive was around the time OW was founded according to Honor and Glory
dire timber
@peak escarp alright, it does seem that they're trying to put the beginning at "over 30 years ago" and the end at "less than 30 years ago"
but I still think we should treat 30 years ago as the cut-off point
rather than 25 or whatever
prisma brook
Yeah i agree
peak escarp
I still think the crisis must have lasted a few years
prisma brook
Jeff Goodman said the conflict was short around 6 months or so
peak escarp
when was this?
do you have a source?
if it only lasted a few months, they must not have tried much before resorting to Overwatch
I just use "25 years" as a round number to show that it lasted some time and didn't start and end in the same year
limpid agate
@prisma brook Source please.
ember owl
Hello...
quasi harbor
wanton tartan
Hi
valid shell
@ember owl @wanton tartan Yes?
ember owl
We were being ghost pinged my good pal @valid shell
worn solar
Moira keeps bragging about how she’s a better scientist that Mercy because she’s not limited by ethics, but has she ever actually discovered anything?
dawn knot
of course
worn solar
She’s only discovered how to turn people into ghosts
And her methods are pretty inconsistent
Both her and Reaper presumably got the same treatment, but Reaper’s in a constant state of pain while Moira isn’t
dawn knot
how do we know he's in pain
also i'm not sure she necessarily brags on being a better scientist than mercy
at least not because of her lack of limitations
i feel like that's only a minor part of her
pretty grand sense of herself
to begin with
worn solar
His body’s constantly disassembling and reassembling itself
That sounds pretty painful
reef thicket
oof
worthy rose
But she fixed that and used it on herself
dire timber
@worn solar well, for one, giving humans the ability to turn into smoke and restoring their form elsewhere is a pretty big deal
reef thicket
sounds painful
dawn knot
no she used it on herself
before reaper
and she's not in pain
maybe it's just because it's her arm only
worthy rose
Not really
worthy rose
She can disappear entirely
worn solar
Her whole body can fade
dawn knot
in game yes
worthy rose
And live normally
dawn knot
but in lore we've never seen it
dire timber
@worthy rose gameplay isn't lore
worthy rose
Probably has something similar
worthy rose
kek
worn solar
Probably not
dawn knot
we don't know
dire timber
like I said, we don't know if she even has such an ability in lore
worthy rose
But she probably does have something similar, just like reaper's wraith form and tp aren't quite the smoke thing
dire timber
what tube thing?
worn solar
Okay, that is a pretty big discovery
worthy rose
Weapon
worn solar
But science is all about repeatable results
dire timber
that's just her equipment
worn solar
Why doesn’t Talon have an entire army of ghost men
reef thicket
because its
worthy rose
I thought of something
dire timber
admittedly Reyes is a special case
worn solar
@dire timber You mean from infiltration?
dire timber
Retribution
it's canon that they can also turn to smoke
or at least, it's mentioned in the voice lines
dire timber
or is it?
dawn knot
dire timber
@reef thicket it's mentioned in the voice lines
dawn knot
what were the lines?
worn solar
Maybe they just have smoke bombs or something
worthy rose
Moira could have been working with talon while in blackwatch
dire timber
"Smoke. Watch out for the sniper!"
worthy rose
Smoke bombs
worn solar
Teleporting smoke grenades don’t seem too far fetched
worthy rose
Probably
dawn knot
i think it may just be smoke bombs yeah
like genji used in
the short
wait
maybe that's a technology
dire timber
too many coincidences, don't you think?
dire timber
Genji's smoke doesn't look anything like Moira/Reyes smoke abilities
dawn knot
permanently incorporate it into a human being?
ikr because it's different
just a theory though
of course
dire timber
while the Sniper smoke does
worn solar
Maybe turning someone into a ghost is just a really expensive process
dire timber
@worn solar I think Moira was heavily involved in Talon's genetic modifications
worn solar
Or maybe it only works on certain people
worn solar
Reyes might have an anti-ghost gene or something
dire timber
a what?
what I mean is that I believe Reyes is the only one to be effectively immortal
dawn knot
the thing is in my mind it can't be the same thing, snipers and reyes/moira, because reyes and moira are both high ranking members/agents. that or the only thing that keeps them in those high roles are their personalities/mindsets etc
also i like to use the word "fade" for everything
ghost sounds too
magical imo
not judging whatever fits idk
though yeah maybe moira was sneaking stuff into talon before then
because it's canon that reyes has that
fade junk
by retribution
so she could have reasonably given the tech to talon
though it still doesn't make sense to me
because why have they not given it to widowmaker? i mean moira worked directly with/on her from what we know
dire timber
I think do think that she worked with Talon already by the time of Retribution
worn solar
Is it canon that reyes has fade junk during retribution?
dire timber
it's canon that he was already experimented on
they do talk about potential side effects, but Reyes says that he feels completely fine
worn solar
Plus, playing as non-edgified Reaper sounds extremely boring
dawn knot
mhm
perhaps it started messing with him later on
or maybe it's just the way he has to live
like i said
dire timber
I think it's the HQ explosion that really messed him up
reef thicket
imagine having moira/reapers abilites irl
idk if it would be extremely weird or cool af
dawn knot
i'd imagine it'd just feel like
dire timber
I think his current state was caused by the severe injuries he sustained at the time
dawn knot
totally relaxing or stretching beyond what you're capable of
worn solar
Wait
worn solar
If Reyes was edgified before the explosion
How does nobody on the Overwatch team recognize him
dawn knot
perhaps i would be able to see everything out of every particle
worn solar
Besides soldier and ana
dawn knot
they recognize him because he told them, and ana took of his mask
dire timber
@worn solar Chu said that McCree would recognize him right away
dawn knot
it's known though that he has to feed off of people, considering his description details that he's known to leave husks of bodies behind passing through war zones
i would feel pretty bummed if i had to eat people for the rest of my eternal life
dire timber
also, even if Reyes already had his abilities, I don't think anyone outside of Blackwatch knew
worn solar
I guess only Overwatch members would be able to recognize him, and no one would want to admit they recognize him from Overwatch with all the anti-overwatch laws
dawn knot
you'd recognize a person you're close with no matter what they're wearing right?
dire timber
I think Jack recognized him also
I'm not sure
I know that Ana needed to take off his mask
worn solar
Did Reaper only start feeding on corpses after the explosion?
dire timber
most likely
worn solar
Why does he have lifesteal during the mission then
dire timber
because gameplay isn't lore
worn solar
Except for the lifesteal
peak escarp
Moira's experiments Reyes was probably "successful" because he had already been tampered with from the SEP
it probably would kill an ordinary human
also I don't think the testing Moira did on herself pre-Blackwatch gave her wraith powers
worn solar
Why is Reinhardt already an old man in Uprising
peak escarp
it would make more sense for her to develop it on Reyes and then use the perfected version on herself after
worn solar
It can’t have been that long after Honor and Glory
peak escarp
Uprising was 7 years before the present day parts of Honor and Glory, and about 20 years after the flashback parts
worn solar
How long did the Omnic Crisis last again?
dire timber
it began over 30 years ago, and ended roughly 30 years ago
peak escarp
we don't know how long it lasted
peak escarp
nope
dire timber
why do people think it is
Tracer literally says in the intro that it's been 20 years since the war
reef thicket
btw
during the omnic crisis
did omnics like..
lets say Zen exist
or only killing machines
worn solar
It’s been a long time since I played uprising
dire timber
worn solar
Okay it makes a lot more sense now
peak escarp
I guess everyone skipped the intro
worn solar
@reef thicket I think normal omnics existed
peak escarp
civilian omnics might have been treated like other enemy civilians during war
worn solar
It says on the wiki that the omnic city under King’s Row existed before the crisis
peak escarp
I.e. rounded up and put into camps
reef thicket
oh.
peak escarp
just speculation though
dire timber
I like the theory that the Uprising is when Tracer met Emily 👀
reef thicket
peak escarp
there's no mention of civilian omnics anywhere
valid shell
Omnica intended to automate all economics, which I'm guessing includes service jobs, so I think Zen/Mon/Max models definitely existed during the Crisis.
The question is whether or not they also fought.
Because if the only combatants were Bastion/OR14/etc. units, then that makes the question of Omnics being dangerous much more interesting.
Since the humanoid service Omnics were genuinely innocent.
dire timber
@worn solar the wiki is wrong then. in Uprising, the omnic underground is evidently not there, and the power station is just that; a power station
peak escarp
the groundbreaking ceremony is seen in the trailer for Uprising
worn solar
“A "God program" is supposedly a type of artificial intelligence capable of corrupting and controlling lesser AIs, such as omnics or sentry bots. They were deactivated and subsequently guarded by Overwatch after the Omnic Crisis ended.”
So I think it’s safe to say at least some civilian omnics fought
worthy rose
So was it that the god AIs made the omnic crisis happen?
peak escarp
we don't know
worthy rose
That seems like the logical conclusion
worn solar
I hope the hiatus on new Overwatch event minigames is because they’re planning a really epic archives event that’ll go into detail about why the omnic crisis started
valid shell
The God AI's have been confirmed to not be as important as the fanbase assumes.
worn solar
Either that, or they’re making Overwatchville for phones
valid shell
So I seriously doubt it.
peak escarp
they did confirm Archives will get a new mission
peak escarp
Archives seems to be exempt from the "no new events" statement
dire timber
@worn solar the next Archives event is most likely to be a Talon event
featuring Doomfist, Sombra, Widowmaker, and Moira
worthy rose
What about reaper?
peak escarp
that's assuming Archives isn't just Overwatch missions, and assuming they'll repeat heroes
valid shell
I still want Sombra/McCree/Junkers event.
worthy rose
Whoa when was that a thing?
worn solar
Also, do you think any overwatch members will refuse the call
peak escarp
I want Jack/Reyes/Ana/(Torb or Rein) taking down the Deadlock gang with McCree and Ashe as bosses
worn solar
What if there’s an event that’s just Torbjorn and Bastion’s adventures as fugitives from justice
worthy rose
I think they'll make a new event that we completely don't know about.
It fits with the other two, and it avoids just confirming things we already know.
worn solar
Is Torbjorn a wanted man at this point?
peak escarp
we already knew about the Venice Incident
it was in Moira's bio
Her employment was a closely kept secret, until it was uncovered during inquiries following the Venice incident.
we didn't know about the King's Row Uprising though
worn solar
How is Torbjorn able to spend Christmas with his wife and kids in his own house if he attacked Swedish government officials?
peak escarp
Binary happened after Reflections
you can see Bastion in the newspaper at Torbjorn's feet
worn solar
Oh
subtle moss
How can something called 'God Program' not be stupendously important
silly writers
call them something less epic
peak escarp
"god program" is a colloquialism
probably called that because it's named after an Egyptian god
worn solar
The idea is that the god programs weren't the sole cause of the crisis
valid shell
They're more likely a biproduct of the Crisis, not the cause.
Like how Null Sector and the White Dome Omnics are remnants of the Crisis.
worthy rose
I'd actually think that they were the direct cause of the Omnic Crisis, taking over Omnics and Omniums to cause it.
What's more interesting is what could have created them.
valid shell
Nah.
They're not that important.
"There are some common incorrect assumptions about the functionality/existence/timeline of “god programs.” In, Mission Statement, it’s really used as a colloquial way to describe the functionality of the artificial intelligence in Mission Statement."
""God program” is more of a colloquial term describing Anubis than a designation for a class of AIs."
heady fern
Are the Christmas comics canon? Like the ones where Genii writes to Mercy and McCree got drunk at the bar?
crisp grotto
Am I right or wrong but do we get any info on the families of the heros ?
Like who are the parents of Tracer, Mercy, Rein etc. ?
limpid agate
Mercy is an orphan
crisp grotto
Oh really ? Where was that mentioned ?
limpid agate
Her bio
crisp grotto
Ahhhh
peak escarp
the only heroes whose parents are known are Pharah (Mother: Ana Amari, Father: Sam), Brigitte (Mother: Ingrid Lindholm, Father: Torbjorn Lindholm, unknown number of siblings), Mercy (parents deceased) and Sombra (parents deceased)
and a few other heroes have their parents mentioned in their bios/origin trailers/other sources (Ashe, Doomfist, Symmetra, Soldier, Orisa)
iron plume
would you coult Harold as Winston's
peak escarp
father figures count too
forgot Genji and Hanzo too
there's actually quite a few whose parents are mentioned
limpid agate
Lucio's dad made the Vishkar core tech
peak escarp
just Pharah and Brigitte have both parents named
dire timber
yep, her parents died in the Omnic Crisis 😕
regal coyote
doesnt matter
since mercy seem to be like part of the extended torby family
overwatch is like ahlf familywatch
peak escarp
Family is one of the themes of Overwatch
white cobalt
Are we expecting a tiny comic this Christmas? Like the silly Mei one?
dire timber
@regal coyote um
"doesn't matter"? what?
can you just
stop being casually sociopathic all the time
seriously
peak escarp
the last two years the comics were released the week after the event started
if we don't get something before Thursday, I wouldn't expect anything
dire timber
when are we getting the next animated short?
peak escarp
at the latest, Gamescom in August
they could surprise us with something earlier, but I'd be very surprised
dire timber
... oof, it's been just November and August for the last couple of years, hasn't it?
dire timber
I really wanted to see three shorts:
– a Pharah short, where she meets up with Ana
– a Symmetra short, with Sanjay and Lucio making an appearance
– a Zenyatta short, where he leaves the Shambali and meets Genji
I hoped we'd already get one of those in November
but we got Reunion instead
peak escarp
I know he just got one, but I want to see McCree finally meet Reaper
maybe intercut with flashbacks to Deadlock getting busted
but yeah, any of those would be good
or anything that moves the story forward
I eagerly await the return of comics
regal coyote
whatever, mercy's dead parents play no importance in the story, not to argue sjw shit here
back to topic, yes i agree with pharah short
symmetra/lucio.sanjay short, i dont know if a single animation would be neough
probably a bit more to this.
maybe both comic and animation, with new character as build up
zen thing would be hard, but at least we can wish for more cameo on zen
reef thicket
Reaper and Solider cinenatic
Pls
I wonder whos morias parents are
Lmao
Wonder if they are proud of what shes become
peak escarp
I'd like to know if any other heroes have siblings
dire timber
Emily is Moira's niece
peak escarp
pls no
peak escarp
but why?
peak escarp
they don't look alike
Emily needs more development, but I think that would be a bit much
worthy rose
are we ever getting more story about reaper following that family around like a creep
peak escarp
maybe
limber wolf
Well she has very delicate facial features, and the way she looks at her orb in the character selection menu does look motherly and affectionate, to me.
limber wolf
She is, but look at her natural eye, her chin, her lips
There's something soft and smooth there
dire timber
I don't think Moira has any children
and I don't think her parents will ever factor into the story
but like I said, I do think she may turn out to be Emily's aunt
her situation is similar to that of Brigitte
dense estuary
I kinda think she would see romance and kids as a barrier to doing science.
peak escarp
what would that add to the story?
dire timber
plenty
peak escarp
that would just complicate things
peak escarp
a loved one secretly being related to the big bad is such a terrible cliche
dire timber
not secretly, though
like, Tracer no doubt would know who Emily's aunt is, she just wouldn't know that she's working with Talon
but there could be plenty tension between them nonetheless, what with Moira being a controversial scientist, and part of the reason Overwatch fell
reef thicket
but
why would moira be emilys aunt
like
out of everyone in the ow universe
xD
is there any ties to moira?
limpid agate
They're both gingers
reef thicket
......
peak escarp
there's nothing connecting them except hair colour
dire timber
I wouldn't be surprised if Emily was Irish
reef thicket
there isnt 1 fucking ginger i nthe world
peak escarp
which is a very weak reason to have someone be related
limpid agate
She probably is Irish
reef thicket
🤦
emily is probably just another character like torbs wife (forgot her name)
where she is mentioned and shown etc but other than that
nothing
peak escarp
Ingrid
reef thicket
ye
dire timber
I think making the story more interconnected is not necessarily a bad thing
and this particular connection wouldn't be out of place
imho
reef thicket
ngl i'd love to have moira as an aunt
dense estuary
crazy mad scientist aunt
dense estuary
I will say that Either tracer still has a good cash flow or Emily has a good job because that looked like a pretty big apartment right in London.
dire timber
Emily O’Deorain has a nice ring to it, too
peak escarp
Chu said we can find hints about Emily's job in her apartment
peak escarp
peak escarp
she has Architech magazine on the coffee table (ft. Symmetra) and polaroids on the wall
peak escarp
maybe an interior designer, or an architect, or a photographer
also it looks like she has a Playstation under her TV
dense estuary
interior designer actually could make good money especially if one caters to the right crowd
reef thicket
do u guys not have phones
peak escarp
what
dire timber
nah
dawn knot
fair enough lol
dawn knot
depends on how you define criminals 🤔
reef thicket
i mean talon is a terrorist organisation isnt it?
dawn knot
that's what the rest of the world thinks
peak escarp
yes they're criminals
peak escarp
the Venice Incident made her a criminal
worthy rose
Does anyone know who was involved, though?
worthy rose
ah
reef thicket
wait wait wait
how does
killing members of a terrorist organisation
count as a criminal offense
????
peak escarp
killing is still a crime
reef thicket
its like saying you shouldn't kill members from ISIS
reef thicket
ah yes lets spare criminals that could possibly do alot more harm
what would you do
kill a criminal
or let him live for him to kill more people
worthy rose
no, this isn't a moral question
worthy rose
it could be easily argued that the talon operatives were reacting to the murder
limpid agate
You don't just walk into a room and kill everyone
Overwatch walked into some guy's house and killed him
reef thicket
because the same guy blew up an overwatch HQ
limpid agate
It doesnt matter who he is
reef thicket
???
limpid agate
That's not legal
reef thicket
nearly killing gerad
limpid agate
Who gives a shit
reef thicket
and probably killing alot of others
limpid agate
That's not legal
You can't just murder someone because "they deserve it"
That's not how law works
reef thicket
dont get why talon members are arrested or something like that then..
instead of freely being let to live in venice after planning multipule terrorist attacks
worthy rose
because there was no direct evidence
limpid agate
That's.... That's the whole point of the short
reef thicket
doesnt most of the world know of talons existenxe
limpid agate
They go to arrest Antonio
reef thicket
existence
worthy rose
Sure, dead business guy was kinda shady, but there was nothing quite enough for a criminal investigation
limpid agate
So Reaper kills him
limpid agate
Because he has money
peak escarp
they also have agents in high positions of government and law enforcement, so that prevents them from being arrested
reef thicket
Oof
worthy rose
Most people don't know about Talon
peak escarp
the public is aware of Talon's existance
limpid agate
They were unlawfully apprehending him, found that arresting him would result in nothing, so Reyes killed him
peak escarp
limpid agate
No, he isn't.
He straight up assassinated Antonio
Who cares how bad Antonio is
Reyes is not a good guy
worthy rose
I think it was more of a grey area
limpid agate
It is
worthy rose
What were they supposed to do, just say ok and leave?
limpid agate
Yeah
peak escarp
if they had done what they came there to do (kidnap Antonio), Blackwatch would not have been exposed
dire timber
@peak escarp the Venice Incident is closer to an international incident than a criminal case
limpid agate
Plausible deniability means
You can say you never heard of it
And people will believe you
peak escarp
but it still involves Moira committing crimes
dire timber
yeah, but I don't think she was ever, like, charged with felonies and convicted
it did make her more infamous than before
peak escarp
plenty of criminals aren't convicted
dire timber
well, right now
she's not on any wanted lists or whatever
and she works as Oasis' Minister of Genetics
peak escarp
if you want examples of criminals who aren't convicted just look at the American government
reef thicket
yeh
dire timber
the thing is, Morrison wanted to open an official investigation
but Reyes just went in and killed the guy
that, you know, that kind of stuff would reasonably get them in trouble
reef thicket
ye
white cobalt
So we got the holiday stop motion, not canon
dense estuary
I am sure the world does know of Talon but probably does not know who pulls the strings. Clearly Talon has plenty of mooks to do most of the damage while keeping command and control separated enough to be hard to trace to it.
peak escarp
right
they wouldn't know the names of the bosses, just the public figures, like Reaper and Doomfist
I don't think Moira or Maximilien's involvement with Talon is public knowledge
dense estuary
Which is why someone like Sanjay is important. To the world hes a high ranking exec at one of the largest construction and property management conglomerates in the world
Which I am sure gets him access to people and information that your typical person never could. Because politicians do mingle with high ranking corporate types
Honestly having some legit looking people also probably helps Talon stay funded.
They can run fronts or divert funds in legit looking transactions
Even if the board does not know I bet Sanjay uses Vishkar resources for Talon operations
peak escarp
probably
dense estuary
"I need to task a satellite to this location to help sell our latest project proposal" Which he does but also at the same time uses the imaging data to get intel for Talon stuff.
limpid agate
I don't like these non-canon stop motion thingies
They're flavour that don't contribute anything other than mild amusement
peak escarp
Jewvia more like Grinchvia
they're cute - and while they might not be canon, they are at least in-character
dire timber
Reaper being super thirsty for cookies is in-character?
peak escarp
I meant personality-wise
worn solar
Was anyone else expecting Reaper to say something really edgy when he looks through the telescope on Horizon Lunar Colony?
worthy rose
me
lime mist
"I know you're out there..."
reef thicket
awe come on
its just a cute little stop motion thing
dont need to get all "ugh i dont like these things"
ligten up xD
dire timber
@worn solar what does he say, and what did you expect him to say?
limber wolf
anyone got a link to this thing please ?
worn solar
He says “The view’s not bad0
reef thicket
thats pretty edgy
xd
jk but
reaper isnt much of a talker
hes more of a get to the point kindof guy
this can also be seen in how he fights
if theres an enemy thats disabled and isnt a threat to reaper he wont bother killing them
dire timber
he still says plenty edgy stuff though
reef thicket
oh yeah definetly
everything that he does say is edgy
xD
i wish his blackwatch skin turned his voice into the voice he had in retribution
love that skin and using it atm
just his voice with it is very out of place xD
dire timber
yep
it really should
the only problem is the ult
cause in-game, it's that edgy "Die. Die. Die." with "Clearing the area" for friendlies
but Reyes only uses that "Clearing the area" one
maybe they could make him sound like Reaper for enemies, or for other players in general
Idk
I think the most important part would be for him to sound like Reyes from the first person, at least
reef thicket
i mean
considering other heros have ultimate voicelines that are completely different it wouldnt be that bad
like mercy has "My servants never die"
or "To valhala!"
but maybe if theres a reaper on each team thats using the same skin it might be confusing
isnt reapers voice atm just his normal voice edited by blizzard
actually they do sound alot different
idk if thats editing or a different voice actor
wait a minute
why does reaper has 2 versions of all his voicelines in retribution
like "assassin on me"
he has the same voiceline in his reaper voice
ebon laurel
I think it's because you could play as reaper in the all characters mode thingy, and it'd just be his normal voice
dire timber
@reef thicket you can play Retribution in all heroes mode
and in that mode, Reaper sounds, you know, like Reaper
dire timber
yeah
dire timber
there were 2 gamemode types
regular Retribution
and all heroes Retribution
same with Uprising
reef thicket
damn
i wish i could've experienced that
xd
guess ill just have to wait for april 2018
dire timber
2019
also, speaking of Uprising
I wish they adjusted OR14 gameplay in that to be more... OR14-like
remove the Halt! ability
maybe add a blade ability
reef thicket
it would be cool if they made
an OR14 hero
even though we have orisa
maybe one with the blade
idk
reef thicket
ye ik but
idk.. i just wish we had some sort of or14 rather than orisa
i wonder if a or14 could get bonked on the head and fucked up like bastion is
xD
OR14 with a bird 👌
dire timber
I wish Omnic Crisis and Null Sector skins for Bastion used a scout drone instead of a bird
kinda like that one mecha skin
reef thicket
scout drone
?
i just wish orisa got an or14 from the omnic crisis (like the one shown in the honor and glory cinematic)
dire timber
same
reef thicket
maybe in the next archives or something.. but i doubt it since she already has null sector
tbf or14 would work for a base legendary skin if u think about it
since it has 2 variants
dire timber
yep
reef thicket
like most other baseline legendaries
dire timber
we already have pairs of legendaries that are simply recolors
this one would be no different
reef thicket
yeh exacutly
and orisas base legendaries are ugly af anyways
like..
a bug and some weird lucio crossovers
xD
theres also immortal from starcraft but
the main feature that makes orisa gr8 is her eyes
and that skin just completely removes them
and makes a big line.. looks dumb af
although i suppose the or14 skins do the same but atleast it doesnt look nearly as dumb as immortal
on a side note i still want some sort of talon tank
we have 4 talon dps and 1 healer
dire timber
people have been pushing Sanjay, but I really don't see Sanjay in that role
or any role at all
somehow he just doesn't strike me as a combatant
reef thicket
sanjay is like
symetra isnt he
vishkar
ah ye
and yeah i doubt it
If theres any talon tank i'd rather have heavy assault from retribution
dire timber
I guess
I just think that Symmetra has a clear gimmick
while Sanjay... I don't know if I can imagine him doing much more than just pulling out a pistol
but maybe Blizzard comes up with something
one thing I know for sure is that Blizzard usually comes up with gameplay concepts first
what with Alchemist, or Paladin being originally just gameplay ideas
but then Ana and Brigitte being pushed into these roles once Blizzard realized that they're fitting to their character
limpid agate
Sanjay can still be an architech
Which gives him access to the same creativity as Symmetra
Alternatively, he can just have hard light formed equipment, rather than making stuff from hard light
Like Lucio
But not sound based
reef thicket
Idk @valid shell that emotionless stare symetra has is pretty frightning
Isnt symetra suppose to be one of the most powerful charactersn in ow
Or so i heard
valid shell
Nothing's stopping Sanjay from having an alternate field outfit like Symmetra.
You're just having trouble picturing it because we've always seen him in his normal uniform.
reef thicket
Theyd have to do something syper creative with him though
So that hes not just a symetra clone
worn solar
Well, what else can you do by making literally anything out of light
reef thicket
M-...More T-..Turrets... shudders
The ZZZZZZ of those things still haunts my dreams
limpid agate
On the other side of that coin, Ashe
valid shell
You're not wrong.
slim glacier
I feel like they have a lot of room for creativity with Sanjay
Hard light is a really flexible concept
dense estuary
Sanjay is a pencil pusher to me, Even in Talon he drives a desk and has other people do the dirty deeds(unknown if they are done dirt cheap).
Every organization needs someone who knows the ropes of paperwork
including a global terrorist group like Talon needs someone trained in the executive arts who does not do wet work
worthy rose
love how overwatch is still stuck in the recall phase lore-wise
keep in mind it's been nearly 3 years and the present story has barely advanced
limpid agate
Thats what happens when your lore exists almost exclusively out of game in the form of free shorts and comics.
peak escarp
there were internal reasons why the lore was absent over the last year
when the comics come back, the story will continue
and we have had some story progression since Recall
Old Soldiers, Infiltration, Searching and Masquerade have moved the story forward about a year past Recall
worthy rose
about a YEAR past recall? i have not read most of the comics, but have we seen most former overwatch agents (at least the notable ones) react to winston's recall? (we know mei, tracer, mccree, reinhardt have reacted to the recall)
@peak escarp
peak escarp
the only Overwatch agent whose reaction to the Recall we haven't seen is Mercy
peak escarp
Genji is implied to have answered
Pharah isn't an Overwatch member
Torbjorn is another implied answer
Rein, Mei and Tracer have gone back
worthy rose
how are torbjorn and genji implied? comics?
peak escarp
McCree will probably go back after he finishes up whatever business he has
Genji tells Hanzo it's time to pick a side in Dragons - this implies he has chosen a side himself
worthy rose
ah right
peak escarp
Torbjorn is hinted to have returned with various sprays and the Blizzard World trailer
worthy rose
but is that blizzard world trailer part even canon?
limpid agate
It's questionable, but there is no reason why it shouldn't be
worthy rose
Winston
Tracer
Mei
McCree
Torbjorn
Genji
Mercy
Reinhardt
^ These are all notable Overwatch agents in the game, yes?
limpid agate
The other trailers with lore were all canon
peak escarp
that's why I said "hinted"
limpid agate
No, you're missing some of the most important ones
peak escarp
Soldier Ana and Reaper are considered dead and wouldn't get the recall message
peak escarp
but we've still seen what they're up to
limpid agate
In her Legacy comic
She was presumed dead to the Talon sharpshooter Widowmaker
You also left out Moira, but that's understandable since her tie to Overwatch was shortlived.
worthy rose
yeah, i was thinking about moira
she betrayed OW right? didn't go in-depth or anything
limpid agate
She was part of Blackwatch, which Reaper led towards a civil war. I don't think we know how long she stuck around for, whether it was until Reaper's civil war, or if she was booted out sometime after Retribution
worthy rose
yeah, i know she was apart of blackwatch
and yeah, reaper got pissed after his commander became unconscious and decided to assassinate someone
after the blackwatch headquarters or something was destroyed entirely
then it all went down from there with morrison
limpid agate
You're missing a few details
Reaper is the commander, not the other way around
Gerard was in charge of anit-Talon operations. Reaper is the head of Blackwatch.
worthy rose
ah
limpid agate
He only chose to kill Antonio once he arrived
worthy rose
antonio was responsible for the destruction of the headquarters, yes?
limpid agate
And it didn't go downhill with Morrison, they were still on good terms (See Uprising)
Yes Antonio called the hit
worthy rose
oh, i was thinking about when the swiss headquarters was annihilated due to the conflict, that's what i was referring to
i forgot that certain timeline
wait, was blackwatch exposed before uprising?
uprising was 2-3 years before overwatch was disbanded
@limpid agate
limpid agate
Retribution was 8 years ago
Uprising was 7 years ago
Swiss HQ blew up ~6 years ago
Overwatch shut down ~5 years ago
peak escarp
Uprising was after Blackwatch was exposed
McCree was in London despite being suspended
lean prawn
i thought blackwatch got exposed after the Venice incident
limpid agate
Retribution is the Venice Incident
brazen river
Uprising was before retribution though (in lore i mean)
limpid agate
No it wasnt
brazen river
It wasnt?
limpid agate
Uprising was 7 years ago, Retribution was 8
brazen river
Yikes
limpid agate
Retribution was 1 full year earlier
The Uprising comic references events from Retribution
reef thicket
Wait why was overwatch closed 1 year after the swiss hq explosion
reef thicket
I think the explosion of their main hq should seal the deal moreso xD
iron plume
that's not how bureaucracy works
dire timber
the explosion resulted in a number of investigations
and it makes sense they'd wait for the investigation to complete before disbanding the organization altogether
dire timber
?