considering they already have null sector or14 skin
#lore-discussion
steep merlin
yeah but were talking about Blizzard here
reef thicket
yeah
steep merlin
where something easy like that takes at least 5 months to get the skin done then another 6 to get it into the game.
reef thicket
on a sidenote it sucks orisa only has 2 decent skins lmao
forest spirit and null sector
steep merlin
for me it's only one.
reef thicket
all other skins look terrible
steep merlin
Null Sector is my favored one
reef thicket
forest spirit though
that looks amazing
but both are locked behind events
which i wasnt around for :c
steep merlin
eh, it's just grass on an orisa with spraypaint glitter in my eyes.
reef thicket
¯_(ツ)_/¯
iron plume
There are people who are prodigies, including those who get into real life univerisities at a similar age
reef thicket
better than her 1k coin legendary skins she has atm
iron plume
and there's nothing about Mercy getting an MD at 17
steep merlin
Thought she joined OW at 17 with that PHD and MD?
steep merlin
yeah there is. check the OW wiki
steep merlin
is there even a form of confirmation?
iron plume
and I am on the wiki right now
and there isn't anything about her being in a uni at 14
she was "studying" at 14 when she visited Torb
iron plume
nice meme
reef thicket
thx
iron plume
(it isn't)
reef thicket
ok
iron plume
...
no one's saying she's never been to one
but young prodigious kids don't just jump into uni
the fuck do you mean magically
steep merlin
damn i wish i can post photos in here.
reef thicket
sane
same
mods block it because i think some people are cunts
and post shit like porn
iron plume
basically stop pulling things out of your ass and claiming they're real lore, in order to bash the lore for having them
steep merlin
"14-year-old Ziegler visited Torbjörn in the hospital after the loss of his arm in Operation White Dome.[5]"
Soon after this statement..
"Later as she was still a student in university she would visit the Overwatch base and once posed for a photo with Torbjörn..."
Since it was implied she was "Still in school" as a 14 year old, then follow up with "Later as she was still a student in uni" implies my claim and explains where im coming from you cuck.
reef thicket
ok boys calm down
steep merlin
when's later? what, a few months later?
reef thicket
family friendly lore discussion
iron plume
years
steep merlin
You can't conclude that, can you?
steep merlin
Again, you can't prove that.
iron plume
because you can't conclude that she's 14 there
steep merlin
the wording implies it was at a young age based on the "medical prodigy"
iron plume
which you seem to be basing your entire point on
steep merlin
Im going based on text. Not on a photo.
iron plume
on text that doesn't specifically say anything you want it to say
reef thicket
can we just all admit
steep merlin
oh for fucks sake
iron plume
not helping
peak niche
You both can’t conclude shit without evidenced
reef thicket
sorry
peak niche
Evidence
iron plume
I'm not trying to @peak niche
steep merlin
how about we meet in between:
Mercy is an underdeveloped character.
iron plume
I'm pointing out that his description is flawed
steep merlin
and there can't be a conclusion because at some point we will be making headcanons.
iron plume
I'm not inclined to "meet in the middle" with people who call me a cuck for disagreeing with them
reef thicket
i wonder if we'll ever get a mercy cinematic
reef thicket
we're sorta running low on new characters
i mean
old ones
like the ones OW started with
we've gotten cinematics for quite a few of them now
steep merlin
There's been a lot of questions that haven't been answered that Blizzard needs to work on.
It's taken an ice age.
iron plume
there's also a lot of bullshit claims going around
steep merlin
Did you hear about the main writer and Michael bashing heads on what's canon and not?
For example: D.Va being a StarCraft gamer.
iron plume
Michael is the main writer
steep merlin
I thought he was the head of lore
iron plume
that's the same thing
steep merlin
no it isn't lmao
iron plume
he does most of the writing
steep merlin
It's one thing to write a progression story, another to create backstory for a character.
iron plume
in addition to coordinating other writers
steep merlin
they're two different entities when you get down to specifics.
iron plume
even if you define it like that, they're two different entities but still the same person
they're both Michael Chu
steep merlin
no, i disagree for a few reasons on that.
steep merlin
see, this is what causes insults.
iron plume
no, this is what's caused by insults
steep merlin
you come off as a condescending prick when i'm trying to remain formal now.
get over yourself.
iron plume
I'm glad I am because I am being a condescending prick
steep merlin
...what?
iron plume
this is very much intentional towards you
steep merlin
well, i feel honored.
iron plume
I intend to come off as nothing else to people who insult me at the slightest disagreement expressed respectfully
if you can't keep a normal conversation, why bother being civil
steep merlin
gets called cuck on a discord server
I MUST INSULT EVERYONE NOW
steep merlin
Well, i guess you're right there.
reef thicket
😄
steep merlin
I mean, i don't care.
iron plume
I know
I often am
and yes you do
you wouldn't go on this tirade if you didn't
¯_(ツ)_/¯
steep merlin
So now you assume you're always right?
iron plume
now can we get this back on topic
steep merlin
what kind of special prick are you?
iron plume
the kind that's often right ¯_(ツ)_/¯
reef thicket
<@&397922982632226816>
steep merlin
damn. you got me, cause you apparently have lore knowledge.
iron plume
that would be why I respond here, yes
now if you have any actual point to make about it, please do
terse oak
Let's move on shall we
Keep it to lore and keep your ad hominem back and forth to a minimum
reef thicket
god has spoken
desert arch
Research is a beautiful thing
reef thicket
i got a question: what is moiras views towards omnics? she has an interaction on kings row saying "the people here have such a medival view towards omnics" but has never said how she views them
reef thicket
ah
regal coyote
same as rabbits
lean prawn
moira just asks if she could instead of if she should
lean prawn
i can't wait for michael chu to show us how many crimes against nature moira has commited
confining a man between life and death is a great start for our witch doctor
reaper is a sad existance
does reaper even feel pain
does he even feel anything
lean prawn
he's constantly dying then being regenerated right?
peak escarp
basically
lean prawn
does necrosis hurt
his nerves are probably getting fried then coming back then dying again, so he probably feels pain when his nerve tissue is alive
peak escarp
I imagine necrosis is very painful
and regenerating might be like having constant growing pains
coarse urchin
Explains his anti life quotes
dire timber
@iron plume @steep merlin what the hell was that discussion earlier
and why was the Atlas guy so hilarious wrong
steep merlin
oh you'd be surprised what a little research does.
iron plume
a person making up bullshit about lore and then complaining it doesn't make sense
another day in #lore-discussion
steep merlin
I went back and looked at more of the lore using the wiki
dire timber
wiki is not a solid source though
steep merlin
Im sorry to say @iron plume , but i still stand. you're wrong for a variety of reasons.
dire timber
always check the sources
steep merlin
It's the best we got for OW lore imo
iron plume
or actually read the page for a start
steep merlin
And i did check the links, they all go back to official blizzard statements.
iron plume
instead of just assuming it says what you want it to
steep merlin
for example, the twilight years.
nah bro dont worry, I looked into it.
when im not busy ill explain everything i managed to find.
iron plume
if you did we wouldn't be having this discussion
and I really don't give a shit about your fanfic
so I'd rather you kept that to yourself
steep merlin
Eh, it's not a fanfic.
dire timber
Mercy was a close family friend of Lindholms, presumably adopted by them when her parents died
steep merlin
^I looked into it and I haven't found much on that. It's assumed, but not confirmed.
dire timber
this is just a guess of mine, but I presume that Lindholms knew Zieglers before they died
well, "close family friend of Lindholms" is firm canon
steep merlin
you are correct on the fact that the lindholms are long time family friends to Zeigler herself.
yeah, you're right on that.
dire timber
okay, so, what was the point you were trying to make?
steep merlin
Like i said, when im not busy I'll type out what i found from the lore, cinematic shorts, and other factors. I pulled a lot of info not from Zeigler herself, but the surrounding characters.
well, my initial point that I found issue on was that Zeigler was described as a medical prodigy, and it was heavily assumed she was attending uni at age 14, based on how the wiki itself presented the information.
iron plume
it was heavily assumed by you
steep merlin
^then this guy comes in and tries to be aggressive on it, not hearing the points I was going to make later on
iron plume
so heavily in fact that you started slinging insults when it was pointed out as untrue
oh tell me more
steep merlin
No, you began being a dick so i responded.
iron plume
LMAO
steep merlin
in turn, being a dick.
dire timber
@steep merlin there's nothing indicating she was already a medical prodigy at 14
just that she had an interest in medicine
steep merlin
yeah there is. On the wiki it says so that by age 14 she established herself as a medical prodigy.
dire timber
well, the wiki got it wrong
steep merlin
the link to that goes back to what michael had said during some press conference.
it was an hour long video and it even linked the specific point in time when he said it in the video
dire timber
the source is Torb's letter, and the letter itself mention "dreams of tissue regeneration were a reality"
steep merlin
ah but keep in mind, at age 14 she didn't have her medical degree.
she was just established as the prodigy, which later concluded that she began going to uni as such for her brightness in the subject.
or at least how it was described in the wiki.
dire timber
??
steep merlin
here, lemme just send the link.
dire timber
no, don't
like I said, the wiki is not a source in and of itself
it relies on sources
and unless there's something I don't know
the only source we have on Mercy at the age of 14
is Torb's letter
which only mentions Angela's dreams
not any actual accomplishments
steep merlin
ah but this isn't where im holding ground.
I have lots more to kinda make this justification.
dire timber
does any of it involve official sources?
steep merlin
yes. Such as her age, omnic crisis, stories regarding other characters that were pulled from the original team, etc.
I guess ill just type it out now to finish it up quickly.
dire timber
any specific links?
steep merlin
It'd be taking you back to blizzard videos and statements made by people like ana, winston, rein, and torb.
not to mention tracer and genji.
dire timber
any specific quotes?
steep merlin
There's at one point in time where it comes back to the comics published.
Nah not quotes, but timeline wise it adds up with what can be seen.
dire timber
also, keep in mind that pre-release Blizzard statements are heavily unreliable
because many people at Blizzard don't actually know lore
steep merlin
nah these were around mid-late 2015 onward.
most of what I got was from that point to present day.
dire timber
again, I'd like to see some specifics
steep merlin
Well, i don't have enough time to provide to you said links but I can later on today when im not too busy.
I can only sum things up for you from what I found.
Ill be more than happy to provide the details though.
peak escarp
at age 14 she was a student (doesn't say university student, just student)
most typical 14 year olds are students
worthy rose
hi
limpid agate
What's this
peak escarp
our new friend thinks Mercy was in university at 14 and had her doctorate by 17
steep merlin
so, to sum things up:
Angela is 37 in what appears to be mid 2070 (2075)
She was born in 2038, and the omnic crisis according to blizzard lasted some 10 years from 2045-2055)
2045 is what's predicted to have been the death of both her parents, forcing her to become orphanized.
about 7 years later, she's stepped up her knowledge and is announced a medical prodigy at the year 2052
The photo you present to me there with torb, according to Ana's cinematic short, was taken 20 years before present day (adds up to her being 17 logically)
20 years from 2075 is 2055.
According to some lore blizzard released, Tracer joined OW at age 16, and mercy was already monitoring her. This is 10 years before present day.
Mercy is seen alongside Morrison and Winston during the Golden Age. We can conclude this had to been before the twilight years on account of the accusations made against overwatch on corruption. The twilight years was apparently 20 years ago from present day.
This leads me to conclude the following:
1.) If mercy is seen in photos around the time of the golden age recieving medals alongside winston, then she must've been there for a while.
2.) She's also seen congradulating winston for becoming a member of OW. She's also wearing her suit in the process. That must mean that her recruitment happened very early on. before Winston's. We find that in a photo winston looks over in the cinematics.
Therefore, mercy had to have her medical degree at least before 20.
iron plume
the medals picture has been retconned
limpid agate
If you're gonna pick a year, the commonly accepted one is 2076
iron plume
it's wrong
peak escarp
she was not in Overwatch during the golden age
steep merlin
so then what makes of winston? even though he was one of the originals?
iron plume
he wasn't
limpid agate
She also joined Overwatch 20 > X > 10 years ago.
steep merlin
Then how long has he been there?
peak escarp
Winston was also not one of the originals
limpid agate
Winston was not
peak escarp
Winston left the moon at most 13 years ago
limpid agate
There is a timeline in pins
I recommend you read that first
Its not wholly accurate
But it makes the best of what little we know
iron plume
winston can't have left more than 14 years ago because hammond is 14 and he hitched a ride
it was likely later still
limpid agate
Winston landed on earth 13 < X < 10 years ago
dire timber
@steep merlin uhh, hold on, what are you going on about?
okay, so
I'll use a fictional calendar that places year zero at Recall
steep merlin
that's 2076, yes?
limpid agate
Approximately, but unconfirmed.
dire timber
BR – Before Recall
pure kernel
Came for the lulz
limpid agate
@pure kernel Shitposting will result in a loss of access
pure kernel
Oke
dire timber
so, Mercy was born in 37 BR
Omnic Crisis occurred in ~30 BR, Mercy lost her parents at the age of 7.
steep merlin
ye
dire timber
Operation White Dome occurred in 23 BR, Mercy was 14 at the time
steep merlin
wait hold on.
you know what that means?
that photo you sent where she's 17.
Look at torbs arm.
it's still there. it hasn't been lost.
dire timber
oh
peak escarp
there's a corrected version
dire timber
yeah, I just googled it
steep merlin
there is? I wanna see it. Is she still 17 in that photo by chance or was that changed too?
peak escarp
the only thing changed is Torb's arm
steep merlin
oh okay. Do you have the photo?
dire timber
peak escarp
look up Michael Chu's GDC 2017 panel
steep merlin
alright, that makes more sense now.
steep merlin
so if she's 17 here, then that's 20 years BR.
steep merlin
Was about to ask that.
So McCree was 17, yet in OW at the time? wew.
gotta farm them young.
peak escarp
newly recruited
limpid agate
I'll admit Ashe coming into existence makes the whole recruiting McCree and shutting down Deadlock thing feel rushed, but that's not the point of discussion here.
ornate cloud
I heard something about her killing McRee
steep merlin
I do know that 8 years BR, genji was rehabilitated by zeigler. Meaning at the time she was 29 when this happened.
dire timber
I mean, it could be that they Mercy and McCree were 19 and Pharah was 14.
peak escarp
before that she was a surgeon in Switzerland
steep merlin
So when did she make the breakthrough in nanotech?
steep merlin
like soon after?
dire timber
just after
steep merlin
So then that concludes that she had to have a medical degree of some sort to create the tech, since it's said that she first began working in surgery, then created the biotic healing.
limpid agate
Between 20 and 10 years ago, she made her breakthrough
steep merlin
so, if she created the biotic healing soon after the photo taken 20 years BR, she had to have a medical degree by that point to follow suit.
dire timber
honestly, I'm not sure if I like the whole "[X] BR" thing after all. let's just use "[X] years ago"
it's the same thing
steep merlin
alright I'll do that.
limpid agate
Yeah, we are still in year 1, even if the clock may have rolled over to 2077. A full year hasnt passed in universe
dire timber
Pharah looks 12-14 on the picture, so the picture was taken 20-18 years ago
limpid agate
I would imagine they are gonna move that "about 20 years ago" to "Closer to 18 years ago"
To give Deadlock more room to breathe
steep merlin
The way It was explained was, she got her PhD and MD, began working as the head of surgery, then created the biotic healing somewhere along the line.
So, if the photo we saw with young Ana was 20 years ago (She's 17) and she created the biotic healing soon after that photo(0-3 years later) then she had to have obtained her MD and PhD anywhere between 17-20.
dire timber
yeah, probably
steep merlin
but it was said soon after.
dire timber
where did you get "soon"?
steep merlin
she had to have done it before 29, that's for sure.
dire timber
perhaps
steep merlin
cause genji wouldn't be alive if that's the case.
limpid agate
Moira had her tech by then
steep merlin
does anyone know when moira got her tech?
dire timber
she already had it by the time of Retribution
steep merlin
cause if i can remember, the lore stated her tech worked the same as mercy's biotic healing.
when did retribution take place?
I can't recall right now.
steep merlin
oh that's right. around the same time genji had his rehabilitation.
but it makes no sense why she would be seen around a high profile base if she's just a surgeon that has no affiliation with overwatch. You'd think with such top secret info, the lindholms and everyone around wouldn't allow her to just waltz on into the facility.
dire timber
um, what are you referring to?
steep merlin
the photo taken.
iron plume
she does have an affliliation
dire timber
... how do you know where the photo is taken?
iron plume
through the lindholms
steep merlin
i thought it was stated it was at Gibraltar
iron plume
and it doesn't need to be the base
and even if it is the base, they have public spaces
dire timber
she wasn't a surgeon at the time, either
she was a family friend
it's not like soldiers never go anywhere public, you know
steep merlin
but if this was 20 years ago, there's still a lot of uhhh, issues with showing your face around in public.
especially since 20 years ago, that was when the twilight years were underway.
limpid agate
What are you talking about
iron plume
20 years ago was the golden age
dire timber
the Fall of Overwatch era started 8 years ago, with the Venice Incident
iron plume
twilight began much later
steep merlin
according to the lore, 20 years ago was the start of the twilight yers
iron plume
when mercy was already in
limpid agate
Overwatch was created ~30 years ago
Overwatch was shut down ~5 years ago.
iron plume
what lore
limpid agate
The twilight years started with Retribution
8 years ago
Thats when the public started losing faith in Overwatch
The 22 years before, Overwatch was an icon
dire timber
like I said, it's the Venice Incident (Retribution) that caused the public to start losing faith in Overwatch
iron plume
Two decades after Overwatch ended the Omnic Crisis
do you mean this?
that's not 20 years ago
that's 20 years post-OC
steep merlin
hold on i had the source right now. gimme a sec.
iron plume
which is exactly the 5-8 year ago timeframe for the fall
limpid agate
The Omnic Crisis took place around 30 years ago. If it ended about 25 years ago, that puts the article saying Overwatch fell at about 5 years ago.
steep merlin
Well, im beginning to find inconsistencies with what's being presented.
limpid agate
Such as
dire timber
the Fall culminated with the Overwatch HQ blowing up 6 years ago
limpid agate
This timeline we are discussing isn't that bad
steep merlin
here in the article it says "Two decades after Overwatch ended the Omnic Crisis and saved humanity, it was brought to its knees by a series of shocking allegations: negligence resulting in high-profile mission failures; corruption and mismanagement; weapons proliferation; human rights abuses; and more."
limpid agate
Yeah
dire timber
yes
limpid agate
That makes sense with what we know
dire timber
that's exactly what happened
steep merlin
this is what's been labeled as the beginning of the Twilight Years.
dire timber
yes
limpid agate
The words twilight years are never used
dire timber
8-5 years ago IS two decades after the Omnic Crisis
cause the Omnic Crisis took place 30 years ago
steep merlin
I should've said 10 years ago. I realized i screwed up in what I was trying to say now.
cause 2076-10 would've been considered that point in time when the allegations were being shot off.
and that's when things became tense.
limpid agate
~30 years ago, overwatch is founded
~25 years ago, Overwatch ends the crisis
~23 years ago, white dome
~20 years ago McCree recruited, Ana Photo
20>X>10 years ago, Mercy joins Overwatch
13>X>10 years ago, Winston joins Overwatch
10 years ago, Mei joins Overwatch
~8 years ago, Genji and Moira join Blackwatch
8 years ago, Retribution happens
7 years ago, Tracer joins Overwatch. Uprising Happens
6 years ago, people start leaving OW (Rein, McCree, Genji), HQ explodes
5 years ago, Overwatch shut down
steep merlin
I think the reason why people assume mercy joined early is because she's seen in so many photos with the group back in its early days. Which leads to believe she had her medical degree rather early.
but that's just speculation at this point.
limpid agate
She joined before Genji/Moira.
And Retribution is the earliest we have seen active Overwatch
So before that is considered early
dire timber
@limpid agate 8 years ago, Tracer becomes an Overwatch pilot; 7 years ago, Tracer becomes an Overwatch agent
limpid agate
Thank you
dire timber
Tracer is a pilot at the time of Retribution
limpid agate
Also, 8 years ago, Retribution is when people started losing faith in Overwatch
That was the defining moment of Overwatch begining its downfall
steep merlin
Thought it was anywhere between 10-9 years ago.
limpid agate
Blackwatch being revealed, and Reyes starting to fall his downward spiral
No, its Retribution.
iron plume
The reason people assume mercy joined early is they can't read and then refuse to admit they're wrong when presented with evidence
dire timber
@steep merlin we don't know of any major incidents before Retribution
none that were Overwatch's fault, anyway
dire timber
yep
steep merlin
We don't really know anything with that large gap between retribution white dome.
limpid agate
Correct
dire timber
better than we were before Retribution though
limpid agate
Thats why Mercy has a 10 year potential range for joining
dire timber
remember when we had just the Uprising? whew
steep merlin
Isn't it a little suspicious that she's seen 20 years ago though?
limpid agate
No
steep merlin
I feel like they're going to do more with that.
iron plume
no
dire timber
uh, she was a family friends of Lindholms
limpid agate
They did do more with that
iron plume
because she's seen because she's with lindholms
limpid agate
They made her a family friend of the Lindholms
Who was close to them since she was 14
dire timber
at least since*
limpid agate
At this rate, she may even end up as their unofficial adoptive daughter.
steep merlin
who knows.
limpid agate
But they did do something with that. They revealed she was close to overwatch members long before that picture was taken
dire timber
Lindholms in particular
limpid agate
It is the Lindholms
dire timber
@limpid agate you have to use exact words with this one
also
@steep merlin please don't start coming up with weird conspiracy theories
limpid agate
Mercy has been a close family friend of the Lindholms for at least 23 years.
The Ana photo was 20 years ago
steep merlin
conspiracy theories? I'm just going based on speculation and want clarification to this.
I mean, sure I won't do it, but from a real perspective it doesn't really add up imo.
dire timber
what do you still need clarification on?
limpid agate
17 years old - 3 years = 14 years old.
steep merlin
I want an answer to when she got everything settled.
When did she get her MD and PhD.
When did she create the biotic healing.
When did she join overwatch?
steep merlin
Its, just below what you quoted
dire timber
@steep merlin the answer to all of that is sometime after that Ana photo and before Retribution
limpid agate
When did she get her MD and PhD.
<20 years ago
When did she create the biotic healing.
After she got her MD and became head of surgery
When did she join overwatch?
After she created her biotic healing tech.
This falls in the range of
20-10 years ago
steep merlin
but i don't like these answers. it's a range, not definite like morrison's story.
iron plume
it's not a reason to make up your own
limpid agate
Even the fucking Omnic Crisis is just a range
steep merlin
it's a little odd that in a span of 10 years, all this happens.
limpid agate
It happened over some period of time 35-25 years ago.
dire timber
the only date we ever got on the Omnic Crisis was "roughly 30 years ago", we're not even sure if it last a year or 5 years
steep merlin
why 35?
limpid agate
Because we dont know when it started
iron plume
getting an MD, creating a technology related to your MD, and getting a job related to your MD?
that's so unbelievable over 10 years?
steep merlin
^yeah dude, it takes decades in modern science to do something like that.
dire timber
um
steep merlin
doesn't take one decade to get it done like everyone assumes.
iron plume
well, for one, no
steep merlin
it's pretty unrealistic if you ask me.
iron plume
and for two, are we really going to apply real world rules to overwatch
dire timber
there are literal child prodigies doing breakthroughs irl
steep merlin
Eh, child prodigies in the medical field just dont happen out of nowhere irl.
limpid agate
Hammond was <5 years old when he built Wrecking Ball
dire timber
yeah, Efi is way less realistic then Mercy
steep merlin
who's efi again?
steep merlin
dang. 11?
dire timber
did we... did we just get Atlass off Mercy by pointing him to a different target
steep merlin
nah. you didn't
dire timber
... are you still going to complain about Mercy
steep merlin
What disappoints me about her specific character creation is that they want to portray her as real. the messages within the game want to be expressed as realistic and hard hitting. You'd think, at some point in time you can have more realistic ideas to go suit with real world things. that also includes imo, some logic.
It's too vague. it doesn't explain enough an answer I'd like to see.
dire timber
it just sounds like you're holding a grudge against Mercy specifically
limpid agate
Welcome to the lore of Overwatch.
Everything is vague
And timelining is nigh impossible
Like, tell me, what order did the shorts happen?
steep merlin
nah it's not a grudge, i just wish i could understand it better. Like, get a better explanation.
"soldier 76 underwent chemical enhancement."
Cool! what happened exactly?
white cobalt
Like Jewvia said, welcome to the lore of OW
limpid agate
The Exhibit, Recall, Alive, Dragons, Hero, The last Bastion, Infiltration, Rise and Shine, Honor and Glory, Shooting Star, Reunion. Can you sort these chronologically? @steep merlin
Not asking for years
Just
Chronologically
steep merlin
i wish.
limpid agate
Neither can we.
steep merlin
Seriously? hell. that's shit.
limpid agate
Welcome to Overwatch.
steep merlin
and rightfully so, how can you sort these?
limpid agate
We can try with vague ranges
dire timber
welcome to most fiction, tbh
steep merlin
Don't get me wrong, I love this game. I just wish it had the explanations to really take it home rather than the vagueness you get with so many other games.
dire timber
like, plenty of fiction of fiction doesn't always sort things out specifically
doesn't list exact years
steep merlin
It's not even exact years either. it's just the specifics of how things happened and why things happened.
dire timber
well, it's like @iron plume said
steep merlin
I guess that's why there's so many headcanons.
dire timber
"getting an MD, creating a technology related to your MD, and getting a job related to your MD?"
we don't have exact years
but Mercy's background is pretty darn clear, dude
limpid agate
Honor and Glory flashback
The Last Bastion - ~20 years ago
Recall
Alive/Dragons/Hero/Rise and Shine/Honor and Glory/Reunion/Shooting Star can have happened in any order
Alive and Rise and Shine happened before the museum heist
Infiltration is explicitly after Alive and Hero
Honor and Glory is after Christmas, which is also after the Museum Heist and Rise and Shine.
Even just things like the mei/recall timeline, ignoring the rest
Is confusing
limpid agate
Correct
limpid agate
14
dire timber
how about Winston?
steep merlin
29
so he was like, 15 when he brought him over.
maybe 14. depending on what day he was born i guess.
limpid agate
Hammond would have been at least a year old
It's still a living being, its not a robot.
It cant exactly learn engineering as a baby.
steep merlin
did winston teach hammond how to engineer?
limpid agate
Hammond: https://bit.ly/2lKVlU9
Watch the lore first
Then ask questions
Videos are in pins
limpid agate
Wrecking Ball was the champion of the scrapyard
steep merlin
Huh. In one year too.
limpid agate
Multiple years
steep merlin
no i mean, leaving horizon.
steep merlin
ugh, this speculation is something else.
steep merlin
I wonder what some of those blackwatch missions consisted of.
how long ago had blackwatch been established?
dire timber
sometime after the Omnic Crisis ended
limpid agate
After Jack became Strike Commander, Reyes was given Blackwatch
Before that, Reyes was Strike Commander.
steep merlin
oh yeah. you're right.
dire timber
it's worth noting that Overwatch was a secret strike team before the Omnic Crisis ended
it became a publicly known peacekeeping organization only after the ended the Crisis
steep merlin
So it was a black ops within itself at some point
dire timber
yeah, but it exclusively fought omnics at the time
steep merlin
I guess when OW was officially a peacekeeping organization, that's when they went against groups like talon and the Shimadas?
dire timber
Overwatch mostly fought terrorist groups
steep merlin
So what's the story behind Null Sector?
limpid agate
They hate humans
steep merlin
oh so they were omnics of their own that became radical?
dire timber
trying to carve out a lebensraum for omnics
yeah, Null Sectors aren't mindless drones, like the Omnic Crisis omnics were
they know what they're doing
they can communicate
limpid agate
Well, most of them can
dire timber
yeah
limpid agate
The Null Troopers and Eradicators at least should be capable of speech.
The Bastions, Slicers, and Detonators... Not so much.
dire timber
there are some that have dog-like intelligence, or no intelligence
Slicers and Detonators respectively
steep merlin
So back in the omnic crisis, was it a system malfunction that effected the robots that made them rogue?
limpid agate
Its a mystery in universe.
In the Overwatch universe, no one knows what started the Omnic Crisis.
dire timber
previously defunct omniums activated and started pumping out hostile omnics
limpid agate
The omniums were all shut down.
But they woke up suddenly
And started waging war on humanity
dire timber
no terms, no demands
steep merlin
oh so they just started going ape shit
dire timber
just wiping everyone out
limpid agate
Overwatch shut down most of the Omniums. They did not shut down the one in the East China Sea, which has been raiding Korea for decades. They also did not shut down the one in Russia, the Russians shut it down themselves.
In the present, those two are the only Omniums still at war with humans. The Russian Omnium recently woke up again.
steep merlin
that explains why SK suffered those attacks with the Omniums.
peak escarp
Jewvia, you said Honor and Glory happened after Christmas
but Rein was only then reacting to the recall message
wouldn't it make more sense to place it shortly after Recall?
instead of him waiting a year to get to it?
dire timber
it's important to note that only Overwatch was able to pacify the omniums, possibly render them non-hostile
Russian forces were only able to temporarily cripple theirs
restive flower
Unless Blizzard is out of their minds, PvE brawls will always have at least 1 Support hero in their default roster. This goes for Archive brawls too.
I doubt Blizzard would want to recycle the same hero in two Archive brawls -- at least not yet -- so Mercy and Moira are probably out of the picture
Brigitte is out of the question because she just became a "hero"
This leaves Ana, Lucio, and Zenyatta. Ana's the most likely, but possible Lucio or Zenyatta lore hype
tawny patio
Just saying the cameo and appearance pin here is mad out of date
limpid agate
Or they'll do something different
Hero 30, Soldier 76, or Sombra hacking health kits.
Ana doesnt have her rifle in the past
restive flower
Reaper didn't have Teleporting abilities in the past
limpid agate
Retribution has lines indicating Moira is already experimenting on him.
worthy rose
Omnic were just tilted because of all the weebs
peak escarp
weebs?
limpid agate
@worthy rose Shitposting will result in a loss of access
worthy rose
Question: Would Emily be a new hero?
peak niche
The next Overwatch Story Mode can be:
- Post Recall
- Omnium with s76 and ana
dire timber
@restive flower @limpid agate on what you guys said about Archives, I expect the next event to be a Talon event – Doomfist, Sombra, Widowmaker, Moira
valid shell
No Reapshow?
dire timber
Talon Moira skin will probably look a bit more similar to Moira's outfit in her origin short – with the horns and all
@valid shell the timeline isn't right for Reaper to be there – keep in mind the mission would take place before Widowmaker's physiology is altered
valid shell
Ah, so pre-Overwatch fall.
timid eagle
That should be interesting.
valid shell
I still want an Archives event that's McCree, Sombra, and the Junkers on Castillos. I know it's not strictly Overwatch, but expanding Archives to apply to all heroes would be better for the game.
dire timber
I think it would be set 7 years ago – after Retribution, before Uprising
Moira could mention that she kept in touch with Reyes after being kicked out. that'd be a nice touch.
timid eagle
Like mini campaigns that focused on what respective character was doing in Dorado?
limpid agate
It would be better, but for now the event is called Archives
I think they will keep that up for... 2 more years tops
A Talon archive, and an archive with some of the neglected members like Winston and Echo
dire timber
wait, hold on... hold on.
we didn't get Talon logo icon/spray for Retribution
while we did get Null Sector logo icon/spray for Uprising
I think that... that could actually be the closest we might have to a confirmation
valid shell
I'm almost positive we've had a Talon icon since launch.
dire timber
that they put it on hold for the next Archives event
valid shell
Unless I'm stupid/wrong.
dire timber
and no, we didn't
it's why there's no high-quality Talon logo anywhere online
because there's no spray for it in-game
dire timber
@limpid agate I think Archives events will lose their love for uniforms a year or two after the Talon event
and will start using Default skins in some circumstances
limpid agate
I think they will stop being archives in a year or two
dire timber
Archives is the closest they ever got to an umbrella term though
they can't just call it "the Lore Event"
tepid abyss
Is there any 'lore' between mei and Winston?
Just wondering about the upcoming winter event
dire timber
@tepid abyss um, the Winter event... let me clarify that no, a bunch of Meis did not go hunting for a Yeti Winston in Nepal.
I mean, maybe there's some Junkenstein-esque alternate universe there, Idk
anyhow, the only actual lore between Mei and Winston is that they were both scientists working for Overwatch, and like @limpid agate said, they knew each other since before she got frozen.
she then left the Ecopoint, met up with Winston and Tracer, and began traveling the world to gather data from the other Ecopoints
I kinda wish we had more post-rescue Mei lore
cause everything we got since after she left Antarctica is pretty vague
peak escarp
Mei's travels took her to Nepal
I wonder if she ever ran into Zenyatta and Genji?
that would make an interesting story
limpid agate
Correct
dawn knot
and that struck me as strange considering the situation
when would she have had enough time to go out reporting
and tracer is present in her current uniform
so it can't be set too far in the past
unless he's looking at old broadcasts for whatever reason
limpid agate
Reflections is after Recall
limpid agate
Its not in the past
dawn knot
ah
so he's just looking over her reports
perhaps spurred on by a return message from mei
though that much is speculation
limpid agate
Did you reread the comic?
dawn knot
no, i'll skim through to that part
limpid agate
Its the first page
dawn knot
oh lol
peak niche
Maybe the next archive
Happens in Singapore
Like Doomfist’s rampage
With Genji, Tracer, Winston + support
dawn knot
alright it
does seem to be in another
on another*
monitor almost
there are three he has
although they most likely interconnect
i still wonder why he happens to be looking at mei
of course because it's a christmas comic and mei is snow themed
but lorewise i wonder
it also strikes me as odd that tracer wears that uniform everywhere
like i'm sure somewhere we've seen her in something else
dawn knot
but i have a feeling it acts somewhat like i theorize reaper's uniform to work like
i know but she always wears it
from what we see at least
but yeah i think it's made of certain things that allows her abilities to but used with it
peak escarp
McCree always wears his outfit
dawn knot
yeah but that's because he's badass
or at least he probably thinks he is with it on. also i feel like mcree's outfit is more mondane
peak escarp
tights make it easier to run, bomber jacket to protect against wind
dawn knot
yeah fair enough
i still wonder about the lack of attention
i wonder about a lot of things lmao
limpid agate
What do you mean lack of attention
Alive: http://bit.ly/1PSJV5x
A kid immediately recognizes Tracer at the start of Alive.
And if you need an explanation for the Mei timeline
10 years ago - Joined Overwatch
9 years ago - Frozen
Recall - Woke up
Shortly after - Contacted Winston, Joined Overwatch
October, year of Recall - Started her journal
Christmas, year of Recall - Did a weather report for England.
livid elbow
This may sound random, but does anyone know what nationality Olympia Shaw has or have an idea or educated guess what it might be?
Olympia Shaw is the reporter on Atlas News if anyone wanted to know
valid shell
No idea.
Although considering Blizzard's hamfisted naming conventions, I'm going to guess Greek.
@livid elbow Why do you ask?
livid elbow
Just curious, I mean, I have been interested in these characters and back stories that I have not read before
One of the characters has the same name as my dad
livid elbow
Could be interesting, and since Shaw is English I guess, she could have some English origins as well.
dawn geyser
Named after your dad LUL
Your dad is so important
@livid elbow must be great having such a great dad
dawn knot
why do you have to be hostile like this
dawn geyser
What do you mean hostile
I'm just clarifying things
He said named after his dad. You know like how Washington DC is named after Washington? So I was curious what his dad actually achieved to deserve such honor
Must be a great man
Aren't you curious?
worldly flax
@dawn geyser don't shitpost in here
worldly flax
just stop
dawn geyser
I don't get it
dawn geyser
Wtf asking genuine questions has become something wrong, welcome to politically correct culture
worldly flax
you're not asking a genuine question, you're being a smart ass. you didn't ask any question, just poked fun at this guy talking about his dad. not gonna ask you to stop again.
cyan thicket
Chill out dude, it's getting annoying
dawn geyser
Sure dude
worthy rose
This is just a question for everybody here, who do you consider the main characters of the lore and why?
dawn geyser
Winston
dire timber
@dawn geyser welcome to what
dire timber
what
dawn geyser
@dire timber what do you mean welcome to what
dire timber
scroll up
guess what I'm referring to
it's like you don't remember what you've said
dawn geyser
Stop trying to rile people
As in your English doesn't make sense lul, how does "welcome to what" make any sense
dire timber
do you have anything related to Overwatch lore you'd like to talk about?
dawn geyser
Look - I already stopped, why are you trying to rile me up?
dire timber
because it really looks like you're just here to shitpost
dawn geyser
Erm look up there? I replied Winston to a question about lore
You're the one trying to shitpost now, when I already stopped
long ermine
Why do you think Winston is the main character? 😃
dawn geyser
Tracer is the poster girl, without Winston there is no tracer
Winston also sent that signal out
worthy rose
Reaper made him decide that
dire timber
I think as of late, Reyes/Reaper had more focus
he's been there central to the plot, particularly with Retribution
similar with McCree
dawn geyser
In that sense, there's no main main character of the lore, but main character of each arc
But for me, Winston is central to quite a few things happening, and that makes him the closest to what you can call a main character imo
Reyes would have been what you call an antagonist, and he was never fond of Winston from the start even while being part of overwatch
Main char vs antagonist interaction from the start
worthy rose
I’m pretty sure Reyes had no beef with anyone other then Jack during the OW/BW days
iron plume
he has a list of overwatch agents to kill
and if you're talking pre-fall, there wasn't a "beef" with jack either
he didn't come out against overwatch for personal reasons
dawn geyser
I rmb some minor beef between Winston and him, I'll get back with sauce later
Prefall
dire timber
it's just "never liked you much"
his judgement as Reaper is somewhat unreliable, but it's likely that Reyes was never particularly close with Reinhardt, Torbjorn, or Winston
not enough for any of it to matter to him
contrastingly, he was very close with Jack, Ana, McCree
regal coyote
he should be ok with genji also
dire timber
hm, I guess
I think slightly more familiar with Genji than with Rein/Torb/Winston
but still not super close
cause you know how Genji was back then
regal coyote
i suppose genji is not really close to most people having edged up by his bro.
well except mercy obviously. like, chu want them to be close type of close.
regal coyote
wonder about the mccree and genji part
dire timber
look at the Interactions in Retribution
regal coyote
but then again the genji that time is different, a bit more confused and a bit edgy
iron plume
fondness for mercy?
dire timber
hm, to be fair, we don't know
he seems to be on very good terms in her in their voice interactions
but true, we have not yet seen her specifically interacting with her in the Blackwatch days
livid elbow
@dawn geyser then I misworded, I apologize if you feel offended by what I said, what I meant by that is one of the characters has the same name as my dad.
@worldly flax he’s right, my wording mistake made me look like a prick
regal coyote
well he is for sure in good terms with mercy, I mean they still call each other after all thsoe years, old style paper mail written with meat hands
i mean, cyborg hands
iron plume
we're talking about reaper
wait no this is the other convo
yeah now he is
but it's questionable whether he was back then
I sort of disagree on mccree too
he's not hostile to him but not really chummy either
lament haven
who thinks ow would be better with actual campaign or playable gamemode that speaks about the story
livid elbow
@lament haven though I would like to see something like that, that would require though a coherent and planned out story line to make a campaign.
lament haven
yep
livid elbow
Though Overwatch has been giving comics and shorts
They do not really follow a pattern
Sometimes
lament haven
yes but many people want a playable experience
iron plume
any single campaign trying to incorporate overwatch's stories will either be chunks of unrelated chapters or extremely forced
lament haven
more than just watchable/readable stuff
pallid oasis
hi, I'm kinda new to OW, and I'm really interested in the lore, but I can't find the comics
iron plume
there's an option to do it for the Strike or other such single event, like the ones in Archives
pallid oasis
...
iron plume
@pallid oasis there are links in the pins of this channel
pallid oasis
thanks!
iron plume
second message
livid elbow
What I like about some of the comics like Zarya searching, is that it ties in not only Sombra’s short, but also the short with Soldier 76
Like with Alejandra appearing again
And I think that is what Blizzard needs to do, find something that works and tie in with other stories that would fit perfectly
Right?
iron plume
there's no single story that would fit all of the storylines reasonably
much less perfectly
unless you want it to become a traveling tour of checking off heroes
livid elbow
I don’t mean all the stories, just a few that would not feel too forced
iron plume
there's stories that share characters and so could flow naturally
but there's not that many of them connected
A story campaign based on OC and the strike team could work
livid elbow
OC as in original character?
iron plume
omnic crisis
livid elbow
Ok
dire timber
@iron plume I mean, Genji did express genuine concern for McCree
"Take better care, McCree. I'd hate for you to need a body like mine."
iron plume
not that there's a problem with it, but I can already see some people complaining they can't make their overwatch donutsteel in that
fair, although could also be chalked up to just how much he hates his situation
but yeah alright
livid elbow
I feel that Overwatch could take the direction of focusing on a new generation of heroes of sorts and focus on them. Like what Tracer said at the very first cinematic with “The world could use more heroes” with the Omnic crisis, they could still expand on it a bit, hey, just my thoughts
livid elbow
True, though they could add more, I mean they have a set up for a character or two for that potential
peak niche
Can’t wait for Overwatch: Infinity War
Doomfist then snaps everyone
Kidding aside
The next archives should hopefully be the Doomfist rampage in Singapore
valid shell
@peak niche Was it confirmed he was captured in Singapore?
dawn geyser
Doomfish is merlion confirmed
Merlion skin coming up
^ edit: just a joke not a shitpost
terse oak
@dawn geyser Don't shitpost in lore please
frosty shell
I think that in Searching the Dorado residents didn't all refuse to help Zarya because they supported Sombra
Some of them were probably also afraid of being hacked
dawn geyser
If I add a "just kidding" to the merlion comment, will it make it a non-shitpost, serious question I'm just so confused
dawn geyser
Merlion is this half lion half fish thing of legend in Singapore
dawn geyser
Somehow it became a tourist attraction thingy, it spews water out of its mouth
The statue of it
reef thicket
fun fact swamp monster skin splashes the ground when walking
dawn geyser
Another version of it even shoots laser out of its eyes
dawn geyser
Not fated to be with doomfish
dawn geyser
This year's halloween leg skins are nice
dire timber
I'm still angry we didn't get any Halloween lore
reef thicket
dire timber
I mean, there were new voice lines, but
dawn geyser
Halloween lore doesn't add value to real lore
dire timber
I didn't have the dedication to go hunting for them
and I didn't see anywhere post them
so
😕
dawn geyser
Not a priority for me at least
iron plume
they were posted in the other server pretty sure
you can just youtube search them
dawn geyser
What happens to junkenstein is least of my concerns lol
dire timber
okay, well, some people like Junkenverse, okay?
you don't have to say the same shit three times
terse oak
reef thicket
terse oak
Can we keep this channel to the actual canonical lore so as not to get mixed up
reef thicket
god has arrived
terse oak
And try to be civil about it
terse oak
Alright, I won't argue with Jewvia on that point
But then let's keep it civil
That got a bit off topic
Let's move on eh
dire timber
hm, is it fine if I go back to what I was going at, then?
terse oak
Of course.
terse oak
Please don't antagonise each other ok 
reef thicket
@dire timber hits u
dire timber
rude
desert arch
Duke please, just enjoy the zombie bots
terse oak
fiery tundra
I don't remember who gave the answer to me about Reinharts clothing, but I really appreciated it.
reef thicket
dawn geyser
fiery tundra
Also didn't know Reinhart was a big boi outside of his armor
fiery tundra
I imagine he would enjoy quite a bit of food and beer.
But they never show it.
Or maybe I never noticed.
dawn geyser
Eichenwalde is all in ruins and the bar is fine? Guess what rein spent his max effort protecting lul
That supports your point 
iron plume
they do show it in honor and glory
fiery tundra
Does make sense Jeffy
peak escarp
the bar was pretty far from the action
reef thicket
the eichenwalde map in the cinematic is so fucked up
like
they start in the bar
move out and next scene is outside the castle
rein and balderich fall back into the castle and rein walks towards the last checkpoint
busts through the wall and is at the start of the map?? xd
peak escarp
yeah, they jump around alot
reef thicket
ye
dire timber
it's kinda like how Ecopoint Antarctica in canon isn't anything like the in-game map
the game just treats it like a bunch of scattered boxes
while in canon, it's all part of a single facility
dawn geyser
How long did it take?
pearl blade
Is wrecking ball the name of Hammond's mech?
iron plume
yes
dire timber
it's also the name he's known by in Junkertown
heady fern
I don't get why Tracer is the main poster girl of OW
limpid agate
Her personality matches the general message Blizzard wants to push, which is a bright and optimistic future. She was also the first hero they made for the game.
heady fern
oh
limpid agate
Cheery, upbeat, optimistic, quick, bright, etc.
She more or less encapsulates everything they want to say about overwatch
Yes I said that
frosty shell
Oh sorry I missed that
worthy rose
Torbjorn should be the poster girl
timid eagle
You joke, but Torbjorn was the first hero designed & tester for the game, as far as securing the overall aesthetic.
crystal oasis
still waiting for my Symmetra animated short blizzard pls