He kills in both
#lore-discussion
limpid agate
runic scroll
did he explicitly kill people in the short?
limpid agate
He blew a guy up
runic scroll
hmm i thought he shot their rifles to disarm them
at least the second guy gets hit on the shoulder, i think
although he falls from quite a height lol
peak escarp
I think he was mostly shooting to disarm
peak escarp
oh I thought you were talking about McCree
runic scroll
the one who can be seen getting shot, at least, is shot on the shoulder
peak escarp
no, yeah, Soldier killed dudes
runic scroll
but yeah i do think soldier would kill people
whether or not he killed in Hero
i wonder if ana would kill
also, in Dragons, Genji attempts a pretty lethal looking blow against Hanzo
like I'm sure he was confident Hanzo would block it
but what if he wasn't as good as he thought or something lmao
runic scroll
maybe
timid nova
Blizzard purposefully shows only implied killing in their animated shorts. So far the only confirmed kills where it's undeniable and not off screen has been omnics, like with Hanzo or when McCree snap shotted the sniper before tossing the grenades.
runic scroll
i think sombra is the only hero so far whose rework/adjustments made gameplay closer to lore material
subtle moss
We don't even know if te sniper is implied
because he shot him in the chest, not the head
And the way he flops over the box behind him comedically implies a little too much weight for a 'killshot'
timid nova
Well, we know that certain omnics die with a headshot, Mondatta as the prime example
That one in the short shares similar characteristics so you could assume it would probably be the same deal, and he was not shot in the head.
You could also assume that from the zomnics in Junkensteins.
peak escarp
I think Bars is still alive
timid nova
They show all the bastions getting hammered and charged, etc but nothing indicative of what is the trigger for omnic death otherwise.
peak escarp
otherwise he would have had a minimal design, like Antonio
timid nova
Yeah, likely.
peak escarp
Antonio was made to die
runic scroll
the genetic experiments that winston got caused other animals to be more violent right?
and winston was a special case?
peak escarp
something like that
runic scroll
i wonder if primal rage is also a side effect
peak escarp
Winston reacted better to the treatments than the others
runic scroll
so that winston wasn't necessarily "not made more violent" but more that he can control it better?
peak escarp
yeah
runic scroll
Recall shows him red and sparkling with electricity and stuff during primal rage
which definitely doesn't seem like "he's just back to his animal self"
peak escarp
he was able to compartmentalize his anger
cunning ledge
A great example of that is Doomfist origins
iron plume
who's Bars
cunning ledge
In the same movement as reaching out for a primal roar he takes off his glasses
I believe it’s the omnic sniper from Reunion
iron plume
aight
Winston doesn't just go gorilla when he's angry
he's basically the hulk
except instead of radiation handwavium it's genetic handwavium
cunning ledge
Gets hit by some cartoon level convenient rocks that mccree causes
iron plume
and he's a gorilla
cunning ledge
And he’s in pieces on the payload at the end
iron plume
alright I see it now
yeah he's not "confirmed dead" material
that said, the only ones in the post short scene are ashe and bob so
cunning ledge
For reunion are we just supposed to assume that the train has no manual drivers (conductors?) on board or what
cunning ledge
Seems like they’d have at least one guy on the classified military hardware (?) train
iron plume
people are a liability
peak escarp
the driver and the conductor would be on the locomotive at the front of the train
and since the front end of the train wasn't blown up, I'd say they're still alive
timid nova
Might be fully automatic too
peak escarp
iron plume
it doesn't even have to be automatic
could just be remote
teal meadow
Wonder if ashe will go work with talon in the future
She seem to be the kind of person that would join them only for getting her revenge with mcree
peak escarp
she wouldn't need them to get her revenge
limpid agate
@quiet plaza Wrong channel
smoky delta
I feel like ashe has to much pride for talon
She has her own group. She doesn't need them
subtle moss
Ashe is an outlaw but she doesn't give off the 'terrible person' vibe.
She might not have ever really done more than blow up trains and stuff, or blown up cop robots. It's plausible for her to have never done anything we might consider 'irredeemable' like murder a bunch of folks.
That is, if we consider McCree a 'good guy' then she could become that way too.
I'd rather her stay neutral anyway, it's nice to have people outside of Talon.
peak escarp
she's more along the lines of Junkrat and Roadhog
criminal, but not really a villain
subtle moss
Yeah, but Hog is a killer and Junkrat... Probably the same.
peak escarp
Ashe has probably killed people
subtle moss
Hog is a villain but also a victim of circumstance.
sacred hamlet
Doesn't Ashe just have daddy issues
subtle moss
Just like arguably the resident edgelord Reaper, really.
peak escarp
she was a spoiled brat lashing out for attention because her parents weren't there for her
sacred hamlet
She's just going through a never ending phase
subtle moss
I see no reason to believe she's killed someone.
sacred hamlet
She obviously has
You can't just be an Outlaw and have never killed someone
She just gets what she wants and does whatever is needed to get it
subtle moss
In the OW world you can be.
sacred hamlet
Like who
subtle moss
She's likely caused huge amounts of property damage.
But there's no real reason for her to have killed someone.
Because there's no real reason for her to have needed to.
sacred hamlet
If someone gets in her way
she kills it
that seems pretty logical to me
she's obviously not evil
subtle moss
The police are robots.
sacred hamlet
Doesn't other gangs made off of huma
from trying to steal from her
If they do that, she kills them
I don't see the problem in Ashe having killed someone in her life
She's just dealing with nuisances
she's not killing innocents
subtle moss
Gang fighting isn't in the vein of what I was talking about, but I suppose that's reasonable enough.
sacred hamlet
after all she did give McCree a chance to leave
if Ashe didn't have such a butter heart
subtle moss
Yeah but she likes McCree.
peak escarp
where does it say the police are robots?
sacred hamlet
McCree would officialy be dead
subtle moss
Aren't all the cops that Junk and Hog run into bots?
limpid agate
Going Legit also had human cops
sacred hamlet
That Junk and Roadhog kindly did not kill :)))
peak escarp
the bots Junk/Hog run into were supposed to be omnics that attacked a factory, but they turned out to be drones
subtle moss
Hrm, now I'm disappointed with the OWverse.
sacred hamlet
Makes me wonder if Junkrat is aware of innocents during his bombings
subtle moss
Around stations is one thing but having cops going out to dangerous scenes when robots are capable of doing so?
sacred hamlet
Always seemed Chaotic Neutral
subtle moss
It's just irresponsible.
peak escarp
by the current standards of robots, I would much rather have a human making the life or death decisions
sacred hamlet
So
peak escarp
in the case of omnics, they're the same as humans, but in the OW world, most places treat them as third-class citizens
think 1950s segregation
limpid agate
Dense
sacred hamlet
Guess he's just Chaotic Neutral then
iron plume
no he's pretty damn evil
sacred hamlet
I'd say otherwise. He just seems to like exploding stuff.
I wouldn't call it "Evil" if you're not purposely ruining people's lives or taking them
iron plume
...if he "likes exploding stuff" enough to not care about innocent lives
that's evil
it's not on purpose
you just don't give a shit because it makes you feel better
sacred hamlet
He's just unaware though
We could ask Chu "Would Junk purposely blow up a building if he saw a family inside"
peak escarp
once again we are reminded that applying D&D alignments on characters not made for the D&D system doesn't really work
iron plume
it can but you have to adjust your definitions
because their standards for evil are wildf
sacred hamlet
Isn't the D&D thingy used for basically everything nowadays
peak escarp
D&D is played in a universe where Good and Evil are constant things that are not subjective and don't change based on opinion
valid shell
Also, alignment is an archaic system and is used now less than ever in D&D.
peak escarp
in the real world (and in OW, since it's based on the real world), good and evil are too subjective for the D&D alignment system to work
sacred hamlet
Well, would you consider Junk Evil or Neutral then
valid shell
Chaotic.
sacred hamlet
Does that make him evil
peak escarp
I wouldn't call him evil because he doesn't aim to cause harm
he just wants to cause chaos
valid shell
Roadhog seems to have used to be Chaotic Evil, or even just Neutral Evil, but now he's chilled out.
peak escarp
someone like Reaper or Widowmaker would be evil because their mission is to kill
valid shell
Widow's actually probably True Neutral, since she doesn't have much actual agency.
peak escarp
she enjoys killing
sacred hamlet
So she just aims for the target and that's it
peak escarp
she has agency in how she executes her missions
sacred hamlet
But is she really evil if she's not randomly taking lives on purpose
valid shell
But not in her morality.
sacred hamlet
Reaper and Widow just appear to be Assassins and that's it
valid shell
?
peak escarp
we don't know if she knows killing is bad, or if she believes she is doing the right thing
this is why good and evil are too subjective
sacred hamlet
Evil characters generally kill out of joy instead of an actual goal
valid shell
Lucio's likely Chaotic Good, while McCree's moreso Neutral Good.
sacred hamlet
Yeah there's no question in McCree's alignment
What makes me curious is if Reaper currently kills out of joy or an actual goal
He does seem to have that human side of him still in there
meager wharf
Cree may even lean towards chaotic (he was willing to let the Deadlocks to take their booty, so long as he got Echo.
sacred hamlet
That was just him going for the smoothest approach
He just made it too obvious that the crate he was going after was special
meager wharf
Which would put him towards chaotic
sacred hamlet
If you cooperate with a thief so he doesn't go over the line
valid shell
Chaotic would be him letting them escape on impulse. He came into the fight offering to take the crate and leave them alone. It was premeditated.
sacred hamlet
Does that make you chaotic
valid shell
Nothing chaotic about it.
meager wharf
I honestly think Reaper is Lawful Evil. He has a code, he has a mission. That mission is the destruction of a force for good (Overwatch)
sacred hamlet
I don't think his goal is even destroying Overwatch
he's clearly working for Talon
valid shell
Reaper's weird.
meager wharf
We don't know what his motivations are, so it's all speculation
valid shell
He SEEMS Chaotic Evil at a glance, just a murderous maniac, but with the context we have looking at Gabriel Reyes and how he acts with Talon, he's definitely much more calculating and meticulous.
He could be Lawful Evil, or Lawful Neutral, or even Neutral/Chaotic Good, if Blizzard pulls a Blizzard and he ends up being a good guy all along.
We don't know atm.
meager wharf
We know more about what he's not than what he is (can't be Lawful good and be undercover in an evil org, so even that option is gone)
valid shell
Def not LG.
peak escarp
if I were to make D&D characters based off the heroes, these are the alignments I'd give them
limpid agate
Why Mercy
peak escarp
I was leaning more towards LG for her, but during Uprising she did tell Jack that they should be helping despite being told they were forbidden from interfering
it made me think Mercy cares more about doing good than about obeying the law
limpid agate
Using that, you can throw Reinhardt into neutral Good too
valid shell
Isn't Doomfist all about Chaos?
limpid agate
Which is why DND alignments suck
iron plume
isn't DnD's lawful more like a strict moral compass
limpid agate
Yes
valid shell
It could be either.
peak escarp
it can be
valid shell
It could be obeying written law or your orders to the letter, or following a personal code.
limpid agate
Lawful = Order. Not obeying laws persay, but adhering to a strict code
Mercy abides by that
peak escarp
but like I said - this isn't exactly what I think the characters would be, just how I would play them as D&D characters
valid shell
Hanzo's a criminal mercenary assassin, but he's still Lawful, despite being an outlaw.
limpid agate
And Mercy is a strict pacifist who is against her work being repurposed as weaponry
See: Ana, Moira, probably Genji too
peak escarp
hmm
paper gazelle
Shouldn't Reaper and Doom be in chaotic neutral
limpid agate
Doomfist also follows a code.
main cove
really? I didnt know that... im not indepth with the lore, lol.
limpid agate
Lawful Evil is stuff like
valid shell
Doomfist cultivates chaos, but he himself is a tactician.
limpid agate
Darth Vader, Clu, the Lich King.
main cove
Ah, i get it now.
limpid agate
Lawful doesn't mean they follow the law
It means they follow order and systemic direction
Rather than, say
Junkers that want to blow everything up
Or Moira who has no morals or standards for anything, and just wants an end result
runic scroll
do you guys think any currently good hero will succumb to the typical Blizzard trope of becoming a villain
main cove
Hmmm...
runic scroll
if OW was a sci-fi mmo, i definitely would say yes
but since it's more character-oriented than actually plot oriented, idk
main cove
If it was, i would say i can see torbjorn switching....most of all
runic scroll
not that "blizz wouldn't want to do it" but rather "would they put THAT much effort into it?"
main cove
considering he did make the bastion unit(s?)
limpid agate
@main cove Torbjorn is probably one of the last heroes to switch to the bad side
Especially given how he already took Bastion under his wing
@runic scroll Already happened.
Gabriel Reyes
main cove
didnt he used to have solider:76's place?
main cove
Hmmm....
runic scroll
would be ironic to see Jack and Gabe kind of switching places
main cove
Yeah
runic scroll
They do feel like two sides to the same coin at this point
valid shell
I could see Jack discovering that Overwatch was rotten to the core all along and deciding to dismantle it all over again for good.
main cove
Yeah....
runic scroll
that could be the lore basis of OW HQ map 😛
valid shell
I couldn't see him becoming a villain, but possibly opposing Winston's OW.
iron plume
Not really a "heel turn" in that sense, but I could see Zarya being in a fight against new overwatch for a spell
runic scroll
yeah that's the thing
iron plume
maybe with them needing to get something in Russia
runic scroll
I can see Jack being "wtf dude idk if you're even good anymore"
but not really "okay this guy's a villain now"
main cove
I can see genji switching, he is yang afterall...
main cove
(I meant yin, not yang. i get them mixed up xD)
runic scroll
you know how the omnic crises were "we don't know why but they just turned hostile"
iron plume
it's mostly because of good guys being so unabashedly good, except for solly
runic scroll
what if bastion/orisa/zen are somehow affected by another crisis
sounds just cheesy enough for blizzard
main cove
I cant see orisa switching sides
frosty shell
They could get hacked or something
main cove
Shes so...... pure...
runic scroll
prob not orisa
main cove
Maybe bastion
runic scroll
would be a pretty dark turn to see zen get switched because of some mysterious phenomenon
which could affect genji as well
main cove
True.
iron plume
genji is not an omnic
runic scroll
not in the sense that it turns genji bad, but just emotionally
main cove
But Zen is Genji's mentor
iron plume
but I don't see them going there
runic scroll
i doubt genji would follow evil zen
more like "i need to do more than what i'm doing now to save him" kinda thing
main cove
well, zen really did... like change genji.
But i feel like genji might have more common sense
iron plume
If we're going full cheese
I can see Brig going against OW if Rein is killed because of their fuckup
runic scroll
i think genji would have learned enough from zen to know when zen's not being himself and going against his own teaching
runic scroll
so i feel like the impact of evil zen would be pushing genji more towards good kinda thing
main cove
Maybe pharah if rein dies
iron plume
See, Torb I'd say wouldn't be the same
because Brig already has doubts about Rein joining
main cove
i remember her saying something like (when i was playing her) "I remember the stories Reinhardt used to tell me" or something like that
runic scroll
so i know this definitely won't happen, but imagine Pharah if Jack & Ana have a conflict with OW and Ana is hurt/dead
iron plume
and is mad at the way he ended up in old OW
peak escarp
boxes were a bad fit
main cove
So many people would be affected if rein died.
peak escarp
I like gradients better
peak escarp
main cove
That does seem very accurate
runic scroll
so if you guys look at this part of Sombra's origin story
Sombra has a chart of how people are related
even back then, you see that she knows Brig-Rein-Torb are close, etc
peak escarp
runic scroll
yeah, so i thought the genji-soldier-mercy part was pretty interesting
as well as this spider mech-looking thing next to doomfist's gauntlet
main cove
yeah i find that interesting
peak escarp
spider mech was probably an OR prototype
main cove
i never thought that genji and solider would be too close
peak escarp
since ORs were used in Numbani
runic scroll
ah maybe
looks pretty talon-y too though
is that logo to the lower right of volskaya supposed to be for an omnium?
main cove
i think...?
iron plume
that's Numbani's flag
runic scroll
ah okay
main cove
Oh
runic scroll
link between numbani and volskaya mech huh
also, what do you think is to the left of rein?
main cove
im not sure
runic scroll
looks like a high tech omnic face
peak escarp
looks like an omnic
runic scroll
like the older design of echo, maybe
peak escarp
but not one we've seen before
runic scroll
idk how close it is
peak escarp
not really
hasty surge
Widow is indirectly linked to Ana through one unknown person?
runic scroll
i don't see a connection there
runic scroll
as in i don't see a line connecting them
limpid agate
Gerard
hasty surge
And talon is the closest to the iris?
main cove
Widows husband?
main cove
I wonder if those neutral icon things mean a dead person?
limpid agate
The unknowns are:
Some Los Muertos (next to the others)
Sam (next to Pharah)
Sojiro (Next to Hanzo)
Gerard (Next to Widow)
hasty surge
So Ana is linked to Gerard? Hmm?
main cove
Oh
runic scroll
who's to the left of lumerico?
main cove
A cut off connection then...?
limpid agate
@runic scroll Guillermo Portero
@main cove The artists didnt design the character yet
peak escarp
Ana would be linked to Gerard because Gerard was Overwatch
hasty surge
There's one unknown organisation bottom right of Volskaya Industries
runic scroll
yeah i thought it'd be him but was confused because it kinda looks like he's in a suit of armor lol
main cove
the omnic looking thing next to reinhardt looks a little like a very high tech orisa for some reason
limpid agate
@hasty surge That's Numbani
frosty shell
If anything is supposed to be Orisa it's the connection between Numbani and the Doomfist
peak escarp
that's why I said it could be an OR prototype
runic scroll
i personally think it looks kinda talon-y
frosty shell
I guess but lorewise it doesn't make sense why she would use that image given that ORs were pretty common
Also, Doomfist didn't have a connection to ORs at the time Sombra would've made that
runic scroll
btw, have we seen any hero not in their classic skin in a short, other than Mei?
oh i guess bastion
main cove
I dont think..?
runic scroll
rein
main cove
I mean, if you count overgrown
runic scroll
there are a lot actually i guess lol
main cove
Widow, reaper, sombra in that one where sombra makes the friend with the one girl from Russia(forgot her name)
frosty shell
Aren't those the classic skins
paper gazelle
Katya Volskaya
peak escarp
everyone was in classic skins for Infiltration
frosty shell
even Zarya
main cove
Ah, thats her name! Lol
peak escarp
the only non-classic skins that have appeared in a short are Bastion's Overgrown, Mei's Ecopoint: Antarctica and Reinhardt's Crusader
frosty shell
Ah, Brigitte isn't wearing her classic skin b/c she wasn't a hero yet
main cove
Hmmm... interesting. Never knew that
peak escarp
Bastion's classic skin is supposed to reflect its appearance after Torbjorn gives it new armor
(and a new coat of paint, I guess)
main cove
I guess so
peak escarp
it hasn't actually appeared in canon, depending on the status of the Blizzard World trailer
and in Binary, the plants and stuff from Bastion's Overgrown skin aren't drawn on, making it look more like its Omnic Crisis skin
main cove
ive never given it much thought, but geez, the overwatch lore is very complex
limpid agate
And Pyjamei
peak escarp
oh yeah
thanks
@main cove yes it is
a lot of people dismiss it because they don't think a shooter game needs/should have lore
but we call those people wrong
runic scroll
what do you mean you're not satisfied with "terrorists win"
that's so much lore
also, i wonder if hammond was also taking that increased violence from genetic engineering extremely well
or if he's pretty violent but it goes out in creative ways with his mech fighting
peak escarp
he just had a good outlet for it
runic scroll
so it doesn't get bottled up like winston who releases it all at once lol
peak escarp
and well, hamsters are prey animals
prey animals tend to have less agression in general
main cove
That is true.
peak escarp
I think he will be
runic scroll
unless we get someone who's an actual character like winston is
not someone who feels like a footnote to winston
main cove
honestly im not sure
peak escarp
I don't feel like they're going to revisit Horizon any time soon
runic scroll
but even then, i feel like adding even more smart animals takes away from winston's uniqueness
peak escarp
and that's pretty much the only source for intelligent animals
runic scroll
so i'm pretty much against any more animals
runic scroll
i wouldn't mind as much as long as they don't just add "haha smart hamster in a robot lmao so funny and cute haha everybody roll around haha"
but overall, against
i wonder if Ashe's gun is fairly unique like McCree's is
like an antique that's been modernized
main cove
i dont think so honestly
runic scroll
similar to McCree's
main cove
its basically a shotgun, and mccrees is just a pistol
runic scroll
it's just a regular rifle, not a shotgun
except it's lever action
which is old tech even in today's standards
main cove
yeah, her gun is pretty weird
peak escarp
it looks like a family heirloom
grave meteor
hihi
peak escarp
you can see it on the wall in her origin story
valid shell
Conventional ballistics still hurt no matter the year.
peak escarp
main cove
oh, yeah
(honestly that picture made me a bit sad, she seemed lonely. I really thought she would be an evil character because it looked like she was neglected)
valid shell
All it requires is some bullshit fake made-up fairy tale chemistry to invent a new kind of cartridge, and a barrel to house it, and even your simple lever-action is back in the arm's race.
It makes me sad because it seems like B.O.B. probably cut her parents those perfect slices despite them not being home, because of his programming.
runic scroll
yeah, which is why i was wondering if it'd be a souped up antique like mccree's revolver is
valid shell
It's probably like Jetstream Sam's sword from MGR:R, and even though it's the future, his sword is still better because of Forgotten Techniques™.
runic scroll
isn't genji's sword also supposed to be an heirloom or something
valid shell
Storm Bow too.
main cove
Have you guys ever wondered who Liao is?
im watching a video on overwatch's lore, and it says something about a guy names Liao, but they dont know who it is, or what he was for
not what he was for, but like where he came from
valid shell
We know nothing about him.
He was the sixth founder, and his name is four letters long.
That's all.
runic scroll
pretty much
and is probably Chinese from the name, I guess
er, of Chinese heritage
runic scroll
I think people with that last name in SEA is of Chinese heritage though, aren't they?
main cove
Well, both really
runic scroll
although it's entirely possible that the name is the only thing being passed down
peak escarp
I would love to know more about Liao
although I will be very disappointed if Liao is a man
runic scroll
and through generations, they've culturally and appearance-wise become completely assimilated to SEA
watch Liao be an omnic
that can't be though
runic scroll
OW was founded as a response to the Omnic Crisis, right?
peak escarp
yes
runic scroll
yeah then there's practically no way an omnic could be one of the founders of OW
main cove
Liao was human
valid shell
Then please don't phrase it as fact.
supple junco
Hey, just want to tell you guys. Mcree was the one that gave Ashe the tip of the train carrying Echo.
valid shell
Source?
supple junco
Source: stfu
main cove
...
valid shell
<@&397922982632226816>
supple junco
He wanted a neutral party to get it. His ties to blackwatch give him connections not to mention was in their gang previously. How you you suppose he gets Echo from that train?
brisk bay
final warning
supple junco
saying "source" at a conversation starter is a shitpost itself
peak escarp
it's very plausible
limpid agate
No, it is not
Saying source is asking for a source
Replying with stfu will get you removed
Dont waste my time
peak escarp
it is pretty likely that McCree called in the anonymous tip that led Ashe to attack the train
it would explain why he was there waiting for it
and how he knew that she had been tipped off
limpid agate
Agreed
valid shell
It does make sense.
But treating a likely theory as fact is how we got "DAE MERCY REZZED REAPER????"
runic scroll
what's the significance of the blueprints in the diner btw
iron plume
Mercy rezzing reaper was never a likely theory
runic scroll
is that the evidence for mccree leaking the tip?
valid shell
McCree doesn't have the resources to stop a train on his own, but he does have the means to take out a group of thugs, especially ones who probably aren't shooting to kill him.
It was a good move.
runic scroll
do we just take it as a meaningless map design aspect for now then
iron plume
it's not meaningless
it tells the story of how the map stage happened
Deadlock blowing up the bridge and attacking the train
runic scroll
i feel like those would be better placed in the gas station than the diner
iron plume
but it either doesn't represent the exact sequence, or is set after McCree left
no one would see them in the gas station
well, not so much see as give a shit to look
runic scroll
you mean players, right?
iron plume
yes
Maps aren't 100% accurate, they're there to provide a feel for the place and be interesting
runic scroll
i feel like having them "further into" the map makes more sense since it could be taken as deadlock planning the attack
yeah i know
just saying
i wonder if the diner was originally set to be where the attackers set up prior to Reunion
iron plume
Maybe they thought of deadlock planning from the diner too, before setting up for the short
heh
runic scroll
then they just decided that's where mccree would start from in the short
and just go "ah well, screw the blueprints in the diner"
lean prawn
is nanoboost also based off Angela's research?
lean prawn
this is headcanon, but would it be reasonable to assume that mercy had a hand in developing it, because she's the only hero in the game with a pocket damage boost outside of nano?
main cove
Just a hunch, but i think it was Ana acting alone. Maybe with Moira?
I dont think Angela would be involved in this one for some reason. I dont have anything to back it up though, so its an open suggestion
iron plume
Ana is neither a medic nor a doctor
main cove
yeah...true...
compact karma
when is ashes on the ptr?
valid shell
Now.
runic scroll
do we know why ana doesn't use a conventional rifle anymore
but uses a biotic one?
it's not like she anticipated that she'd work with jack and she'd have to heal him from afar, right?
or is that literally it
iron plume
after her "death" and reunion with Soldier she decided to help him with the healing darts
it's not clear on how the weapon got to Ana, it was either Jack stealing it along with his biotic field and pulse rifle before meeting her, or her stealing it when they were already traveling together
runic scroll
but we see ana already using the biotic rifle when she first meets up with jack
when jack gets shot by reaper
iron plume
hm
runic scroll
i'm not mistaken that this is when ana first meets up with jack post-fall, right?
valid shell
Either a) Torbjorn built the Biotic Rifle against Mercy's wishes, and Ana recovered it from a Watchpoint, or b) Ana got her hands on the blueprint and built it herself.
limpid agate
It aint B
valid shell
Or I guess c) she had another gunsmith do it for her.
runic scroll
i'm not necessarily curious about how she got it but more as to why
is there a specific reason for her wanting a rifle that can heal and damage?
like, was she anticipating teamwork
etc
iron plume
well considering her first shot in Old Soldiers was healing Jack
seems like she expected to meet him and have to bail him out
runic scroll
i'm pretty sure i'm just reading too much into it but still lol
valid shell
She's probably done taking lives and is trying to soft-atone for her life of combat, and the Biotic Rifle made the most sense to utilize her talents.
runic scroll
also, pretty unnecessary detail but her first shot in old soldiers seems to be an attack on reaper
iron plume
okay yeah second shot
runic scroll
i think it'd be interesting to see brig and/or pharah somehow come to oppose OW
brig already kinda resents it
not that she's actually opposing it
valid shell
If Reinhardt's in it, Brigitte's in it.
peak escarp
Chu is finally coming through on one thing he said a few months ago
runic scroll
and if something happens to rein, who knows
peak escarp
the lore blurb on Night Ops and Commando 76 has been corrected
limpid agate
To?
peak escarp
limpid agate
What was the old one
peak escarp
“At his first opporunity, a young Jack Morrison enlisted in the American Armed Forces to defend his country against the Omnic Crisis.”
limpid agate
Oh ok
valid shell
Oh, so it was just a grammar error.
lucid vessel
What was changed about it
valid shell
Not a lore botch.
peak escarp
the original one implied that he joined the army because of the omnic crisis
but the omnic crisis started when he was in his 20s
and he enlisted at 18
iron plume
Enlisting "to defend against the omnic crisis" means it's going on while you first get into the army
Enlisting "to defend your country" and then "serving during the crisis" is a wider timescale
void ferry
Guys did anyone watch btc's video on the dude in Anas short with the original team and how he had the same Mohawk as the man at the talon inner council in the masquerade ball short
peak escarp
it's similar
but it's too small to really tell if it's supposed to be the same person
void ferry
The Mohawks has the exact same spike line.
I just think that it is a much underrated theory
limpid agate
@void ferry Old theory
limpid agate
We already talked about it long ago
void ferry
Yes
peak escarp
the mohawk is all of like 10 pixels
void ferry
Zoomed
limpid agate
Zooming in doesnt increase the resolution
peak escarp
I'm not saying they couldn't be the same person, I'm just saying it's too small to tell
void ferry
You can just see it a tad better or atleast the way he did it
void ferry
I wasn't here a year ago and how is it not a theory
void ferry
There you go
limpid agate
Its old
And its not exactly likely or unlikely
Its too hard to tell
Could be that. Could be this. Could be all 3
void ferry
I mean it has a more likely chance than unlikely but time will tell. I just want to know who the black female is in that picture because it's not oparah
void ferry
Who is Gabrielle
limpid agate
She was the vice security general of the UN ~30 years ago, and commissioned Overwatch.
She helped build the team, and is more or less the true founder of Overwatch
void ferry
Oh dang
limpid agate
She also played a role in the construction of Numbani
The airport there is named after her
void ferry
Didn't oparah die
limpid agate
Its not Oprah
void ferry
Ik
limpid agate
Adawe might be dead, we probably will never find out
Just that she created both Overwatch and Numbani.
void ferry
Welp either of them could be that black female everyone Kong's for right now
limpid agate
Or even maps
void ferry
Or maybe a Canadian
limpid agate
They probably think Pharah is enough for Canada
lean prawn
pharah has metis heritage
valid shell
Yeah, nah.
void ferry
Right now I just want another blizzard world and nano cola challenge thing
valid shell
I don't accept a half hero.
lean prawn
she's akshually 1/4th first nations
valid shell
?
valid shell
Native Canadians aren't one half native and one half Canadian.
void ferry
Lol
lean prawn
pharah has metis/egyptian heritage, and metis are at least 1/2 not first nations
valid shell
Her tribe hasn't been confirmed.
valid shell
Anyways, I'd love a younger Native Canadian hero from Sam's tribe who heard second-hand Reinhardt stories from Pharah (and maybe even Ana), and ended up tracking down Winston's Overwatch.
I'd be down with that life.
valid shell
Another Helix would be tight.
Maybe a riot control prison guard who abandoned his post to hunt Doomfist.
After DF bodied a bunch of his coworkers.
valid shell
That would be good.
limpid agate
And actually enforce Petras Act
void ferry
I want another vishkarr or Oasis hero
limpid agate
Rather than just have it exist
void ferry
Yeah
lean prawn
that'd be nifty
limpid agate
@void ferry Look forward to Sanjay or Hamid Faisal
valid shell
A by-the-books Helix agent who isn't explicitly an enemy of Overwatch, but is definitely a threat.
void ferry
I don't really want Sanjay
lean prawn
what other aspect of helix could they explore though?
limpid agate
Then you dont really want a Vishkar hero
valid shell
Man, our Hamid hype died outright, didn't it.
I haven't read his name in a hot minute.
lean prawn
echo was heavily hinted at as one of the future heroes
limpid agate
Unlike Emre, Hamid seems to be in that area of intentional hero teaser
Like Hammond
Or Sombra
limpid agate
Echo is confirmed to be within the next 6 heroes.
Or rather
The next 5 after 30
Probably sooner rather than later
lean prawn
jeff asked chat what kind of hero they want echo to be, so i'd wager she'll be 32nd to 35th hero
limpid agate
He then said he already knew what type of hero she was
lean prawn
oh
limpid agate
And was just asking to see what people would say
limpid agate
Iris had Speed boost, shield, and particle beam
Wonder how much of that Echo will keep
lean prawn
definitely not speed boost
limpid agate
Cant say that
void ferry
Echo should have something like lucios Aurora as an ability cause you know her name and some kind of healing beam but not lock on
limpid agate
Brig and Torb had the same ability for a few months. Give armor
lean prawn
brigitte also had utility unique to her amongst the other supports
if echo isn't a support, there's a chance she might have speed boost
void ferry
I wish echo got symmetra shild generator ability in a kind of different way
lean prawn
right now im just thinking of all the under-represented factions in the game
meka, helix, vishkar, maybe ironclad?
lean prawn
brigitte does have an ironclad tattoo and torbjorn was part of the ironclad guild but we have very little lore in the game about it
valid shell
Another non-Swedish Scandinavian would be neato.
void ferry
Or a German hero
lean prawn
singaporean or filipino would be pretty cool
void ferry
I want another one like a Reinhardt love interest when they were young. Nothing wrong with two of the same
Like junk and road
feral lintel
i thought ana was sort of rein's love interest
valid shell
Yeeah, let's not having the first confirmed homosexual couple be radiation afflicted anarchist murderers.
That cuts a bad image.
void ferry
No that they are of the same race/ethnicity
last inlet
Eh, they're flirty
void ferry
Nothing about lovers
lean prawn
*second
last inlet
They're also the same faction too
lean prawn
but tracer's lover aint in game
wild crown
Road is from New Zealand and Junk is Australian
valid shell
@feral lintel Rein and Ana could easily be tipped into romance, but atm it's up in the air.
lean prawn
SO HE IS IMPLYING ROADRAT
valid shell
Could just be banter.
void ferry
They will never bring Emily into the game
last inlet
Yeah not every character has to be combat ready
peak escarp
Roadhog is from Australia
lean prawn
they're never adding efi and im betting heavily against junker queen too
wild crown
He moved to Australia but he's from New Zealand originally
peak escarp
that has never been confirmed
last inlet
Is this more fanon
peak escarp
he could also be of Maori descent and born in Australia
void ferry
Or Gerald's brother cause a long time ago on the sims I had this girl name willow Rae who was pregnant and married a twin and ended up killing him for his fortune and his twin became a police officer resting at nothing to kill willow
And this was all before Overwatch was a thing
void ferry
Widowmaker husband, former Overwatch member, that she murdered
Okay look autocorrect doesn't like me
So sorry
feral lintel
no problem
peak escarp
I'd like to know if any other heroes have siblings we don't know about
last inlet
Likely
feral lintel
the only heroes confirmed to have siblings so far are hanzo, genji and brigitte, right?
last inlet
I can't imagine there's so many only children
peak escarp
yep
void ferry
Yeah but make up as you go
last inlet
Yeah we could only speculate. Or, uh, outright invent
void ferry
Yeah
peak escarp
or children/spouses we don't know about
only Torbjorn is currently married
Widow is a widow, obviously
and Ana's relationship status with Sam is unknown
feral lintel
ana doesn't seem to want sam to know she's alive
peak escarp
I also want to see Lena and Emily get married, but that's just me
feral lintel
speaking of which, i think a tracer/emily wedding getting crashed by talon would make a good archives mission, but the devs would have to exclude it from some regions
because, you know, spooky scary gay marriage
last inlet
Plus Archives deals with backstory
feral lintel
not necessarily
i don't see how else they'd be able to add "current" story-related missions
last inlet
A new mode
Or a new event
Maybe as part of Anniversary
And as far as a new mode, people have been clamoring for a story mode/campaign forever
feral lintel
i was thinking tracer in a tuxedo and emily in a wedding dress
last inlet
A tux if only for the possibility of a skin
But they'd both look great in wedding dresses
Anyway
feral lintel
i kinda came up with some skin ideas for a mission like that a while back
lean prawn
wedding dress tracer would fuck with her silhouette
lean prawn
but her animations are pretty distinct
hasty surge
Oh dear I think Tracer and Emily wedding would boost fanfics and rule 34 but not the actual lore
feral lintel
??? if it happened canonically it would add to the lore
i don't see how a wedding is automatically smutty
iron plume
It would add to Tracer's story but not really be meaningful
then again not everything has to be
and yes it's not automatically smutty at all
if anything most fanfics pair her with heroes anyway
peak escarp
saw a post that mentioned that the flowers in this image:
are Bluebonnets
which are the state flower of Texas
that, combined with her accent and the oil rigs in the background, are compelling evidence to show that Ashe was born and raised in Texas
peak escarp
you can see them in the distance behind Ashe
her parents are business coaches for CEOs and the like
but they probably made their fortune in oil
last inlet
Or maybe Texas is just oil rigs in the future
peak escarp
I just realized the hero bios say "base of operations", not "hometown" or something like that
last inlet
Yeah. Just to show where they hang out. And to give the illusion of mystery for some of them?
peak escarp
I kinda wish they'd update them though
Soldier's says "unknown", but we've seen his base in Necropolis with Ana
last inlet
There haven't been any updatesto bios since launch, have there? Just adding new characters
peak escarp
nope
the bios need an update badly
Chu said he wanted to redo them, but that was a year ago and nothing has happened
long ermine
we dont know who's pov the bios are from
last inlet
It could just be from ours
It'd be helpful to have the bios reflect all the new content, lorewise
regal coyote
@peak escarp well tbh 76 probably move around quite a bit, at least before he hook up with ana
the real question is, does the shimada boys have a base of operation?
I mean, genji seem to be moving around now
and hanzo is for sure travelling, i mean he does not even go to the castle to honor his brother anymore from now on
iron plume
Bios are weird, because they're kinda half in-universe, half-our look
because Soldier's still has name unknown, location unknown
even though we do
but if it's in-universe, the bio on Sombra should be completely blanked out
regal coyote
if it were in-universe, who is writing all these
i mean som things are super secret
like ana being alive, jack=76, gabe=reaper
wball = a fucking hamster
regal coyote
ana being laive
iron plume
which is why it's in that weird spot
regal coyote
only person who can know all those would be sombra.
buf if that were true then sombra's bios would just be a virus that fucks your screen up
feral lintel
the bios are probably just written that way so that people getting into the game for the first time will look up the lore
like they might get curious about who reaper and soldier are
worthy rose
If mccree is the good and ashe is the bad then who is the ugly?
hasty surge
Mcree said that he isn't any
feral lintel
that's just his opinion
plucky dirge
@feral lintel gay marriage isn't spooky. It's a sin in some religions.
iron plume
...what
feral lintel
i know, i was being humorous
plucky dirge
Cool
feral lintel
"spooky scary [blank]" is a meme, originating from a song called "spooky scary skeletons"
iron plume
interesting how you took issue with that though
also off topic
frosty shell
Tracer and Emily might be married already - do we have any proof they're not?
feral lintel
neither seem to be wearing wedding rings
feral lintel
that wasn't clear before?
regal coyote
yes chu had hsi ncie red wedding a few days ago
I always think it be cool if he can give widow a skin similar to that wedding dress
runic scroll
Hmm now that I think about it, it would have also been kinda cool if Ashe was pretty old
And is like a Deadlock counterpart to what Ana was to McCree in Overwatch
Kind of like his criminal mentor before he was reformed
feral lintel
i wonder at what point they're going to stop retconning stuff and finally work with what they have
feral lintel
she's 39, i think
frank gorge
so she isn't exactly old or young
to be fair the sign that says "founded 1976" is deadlock rebels not deadlock gang
maybe they're different
pure kernel
Good point
dire timber
I mean
it's the same thing
they're called the Deadlock Gang
but their tattoos identify them as Deadlock Rebels
valid shell
They could have explained it away with the Deadlock Rebels being Ashe's grandmother's gang or something, and she resurrected it.
pure kernel
Deadlock Gorge
valid shell
Or, get this. That Deadlock Rebels applied to another one of the founders, instead of everything being on Ashe's shoulders.
Because at the moment those other two founders are just existing meatsacks.
feral lintel
nah, i'm pretty sure it's been retconned
the gang only started with ashe, mccree and the other two founders
worthy rose
Other than that what are your thoughts on Echo( The omnic at the end of the short )
restive flower
Since we know nothing about her, cool design.
vernal temple
i wanna know more -;
restive flower
I'm excited when she becomes playable because that means the plot would move forward, unless they decided to give us backstory on how she was captured and shut down instead..
worthy rose
Doesn't her design look similar to Athena's
restive flower
No. Athena is literally a computer screen.
worthy rose
Well that can be debatable due to the early pictures of overwatch
restive flower
Back when Echo was in development (under the name "Iris"), one of the developers put the Athena and even Vishkar logos on her body to "fill space." They were never meant to be there -- only placeholders.
vernal temple
lo
restive flower
Jeff mentions this on one of the streams. They were surprised when players took them seriously.
vernal temple
ooo
worthy rose
Well that makes more sense but what I don't get is that logo, I thought it was Vishkar,, but I'm not sure
Also not that I look at the early concept art, there is someone that looks like the junker queen except for the fact that she has green claw things
Also *now
regal coyote
ok, official story is that echo was an old concept as we know it, but back when developing they found the need of a logo on the bot to make it look nice, so they just use a random logo, like vishkar or athena
so yeah it not related
also, they call athena WINSTON'S AI and not overwatch's ai, so yeah
athena is kinda like winston's girlfriend, helper, bodypillow, etc
i guess they make a cute pair then, consider winston is alone and one of a kind
i mean, the moon species list does not seem to have a female gorilla
and it wold be disgusting for winston to even think of sexing a dumb fuck regular gorilla
so yeah he cannot have a biological mate
worthy rose
More conept art reveals, and remember this was early, particle beam, shield and it said just "Speed"
regal coyote
an AI is just as good as an omnic
valid shell
You're really going on a tangent.
regal coyote
yeah partical bean and shield
also the wing structure of echo suggest some kinda flight ability?
worthy rose
I'm going of of concept art so....eh
regal coyote
well saying that it seems echo has been on concept and probably internal testing for a long long time
worthy rose
Maybe that's the "Speed" it says but now it's formed into flight and not speed like an omnic lucio
regal coyote
does echo mean there is some telerport/clone ability?
or the least control of drone/bit/funnel/option/fangu?
worthy rose
idk but tha'd be a grreat ult
regal coyote
like a sonic canon or blast rather than a high-mega-beam canon
but the act of her switching off her face projector, showing the canon like thing on the back, and firing a big ass beam yelling "high mega beam canon" is so so cool
What is that sound when loading into the ptr?
nova elbow
I wonder if she was human and then converted into an omnic… an "echo" of a person
runic scroll
idk about a literal human turned into an omnic, but could be somebody's personality imitated in AI form
for whatever reason
if she was going to die and she was too valuable of an asset
something like that
worthy rose
Nah
runic scroll
i think that could be kinda cool as a concept though, not necessarily for liao but for some other important person
gerard AI in machine body, for example
worthy rose
That's true it would be the second time that we see someone be one character Coughs wrecking ball=Hammond coughs
peak escarp
what
worthy rose
echo looks like an upgraded version of the sc2 adjutant
feral lintel
wrecking ball doesn't seem to have a consciousness of its own
i think it's just a mech
feral lintel
well, not enough to consider itself a person, right?
frank gorge
wrecking ball's AI is probably like alexa
weak AI, serves as mostly a translator for hammond
nova elbow
they said it's not sentient, I think
valid shell
Sentient or sapient?
feral lintel
http://www.rebekkahniles.com/2012/03/word-box-sapience-vs-sentience.html
based on this definition, both?
lament fable
Cool
peak escarp
hmm
I wonder if 58 is the year
if '76 is the current year in Overwatch and this arrest is from '58
peak escarp
she'd be 21
but that would be 18 years ago - after the Ana group picture with McCree already in Overwatch
so I'm not sure that works
unless the "20 years ago" for the Ana picture is a rough number
smoky delta
That's why I think it might be the jurisdiction or the code for the town/county it happened in
feral lintel
ashe was 19 when mccree was recruited by blackwatch
peak escarp
so ignore that idea
peak escarp
TX58D1
smoky delta
It's either state crime or state jurisdiction or city code but no idea what d1 is
peak escarp
none of the counties in Texas have 58 as their code