it's a scheduled fight
#lore-discussion
sacred hamlet
iron plume
they won't go fight someone else's battles
copper moat
^
iron plume
when they have their own shit to take care of
sacred hamlet
you don't know that mate
iron plume
yes we do
sacred hamlet
they seem pretty loyal to the queen
iron plume
that's literally the characterization given to junkertown
they're afraid of the queen
sacred hamlet
she doesn't have to know
copper moat
True
sacred hamlet
i mean really
iron plume
there is absolutely no way there is "a scheduled fight" involving Hammond that he calls all the Junkers to
sacred hamlet
if hammond managed to beat multiple fighters
show up in front of the entire stadium
and still run off with the money without revealing his identity
iron plume
...what money
sacred hamlet
he can probably get people on his side
copper moat
Hammond doesn't probably like money. In fact he probably ate it..
Well its not proven so nvm
peak escarp
"Hammond modified his escape pod to enter the lucrative mech battle arena of the Scrapyard. Working his way up the ranks, "Wrecking Ball" went from contender to champion, though the pilot's identity remained a mystery to all. Gathering his winnings, Hammond was able to upgrade his mech enough to survive the dangerous trek out of the Junker-controlled Outback."
copper moat
He may be a greedy hamster
sacred hamlet
see boys
copper moat
Oh true
peak escarp
"lucrative" "winnings" means there's money involved
copper moat
Niceee
iron plume
if he spent it in junkertown
sacred hamlet
Lore lord
sacred hamlet
what
peak escarp
he spent it to upgrade his mech so he could get out of Junkertown
sacred hamlet
i'm saying he managed to get the money and leave without revealing his identity
then he used it to get parts
iron plume
where else would he upgrade his mech to survive the trek out of junkertown
sacred hamlet
anywhere
sacred hamlet
dude he already had a functioning ball of death
sacred hamlet
he probably used the money for the shield and mines
yes
he got the money in junkertown
iron plume
<
sacred hamlet
and spent it somewhere else
iron plume
no
iron plume
that's literally contradicting what's written in the bio paragraph
well then that makes two of us
peak escarp
"Gathering his winnings, Hammond was able to upgrade his mech enough to survive the dangerous trek out of the Junker-controlled Outback."
this implies he upgraded before leaving Junkertown
iron plume
it literally is the opposite of what you were saying
copper moat
Guys stop fighting haha.
copper moat
We're here to discuss
peak escarp
then left
iron plume
...
sacred hamlet
I didn't say outside of junkertown
iron plume
...yes you did
iron plume
christ
sacred hamlet
mate you didn't even know the rat fought in acompetition in the first place
and got a shitton of money
and you're gonna nitpick the terms i used
COME ON BRUG
copper moat
Relax
iron plume
that's your argument being stupid
sacred hamlet
I just said somewhere else
iron plume
...other than Junkertown
sacred hamlet
he got the money from the stadiumm
iron plume
because the place you used before was Junkertown
iron plume
...
sacred hamlet
AYYY
iron plume
why would he upgrade it in the stadium
peak escarp
that's not what you said the first time
sacred hamlet
OUTPLAYED
iron plume
why would anyone think he upgraded it in the stadium
vapid orchid
this seems like a dumb argument
peak escarp
it is
sacred hamlet
true
iron plume
that's not a gotcha, that's fixing your stupid argument with an even dumber argument
is it so hard to just admit it instead of trying to wiggle out
iron plume
because that hole ain't getting shallower
"Junkers are going to randomly come to his aid nbd" isn't describing his lore
which is still wrong
pure kernel
Came here for the lulz
sacred hamlet
What no
that's just some fanfic shit
mccree and hammond would never fight
I thought we were just reciting hammond's lore
vapid orchid
saying random words in all caps doesn't prove your point or make your point any stronger (when it wasn't very strong to begin with).
peak escarp
it started as a discussion of a post on Reddit that said the short would be about Hammond hunting down McCree
which makes absolutely 0 sense based on what we know of them
peak escarp
no
peak escarp
why would you want McCree to die?
sacred hamlet
so he can fake his own death and come back as some spanish vigilante
vapid orchid
They're not going to just kill off a playable character
that makes little to no sense
peak escarp
McCree isn't Spanish
sacred hamlet
i know
vapid orchid
why a spanish vigilante? what's the point of faking his own death to just come back?
sacred hamlet
but spanish vigilantes are cool
btw they've already talked about this dying thing
they said they would kill a character in the future
peak escarp
they said it was a possibility
vapid orchid
short's aren't very common so it'd be very very odd for him to 'die' in a short
sacred hamlet
it's possible
peak escarp
not that they're going to
peak escarp
IF that was going to happen, it wouldn't be one of the younger heroes
it would probably be Reinhardt - someone who is older, and already has a successor lined up
sacred hamlet
Brigitte ResidentSleeper
peak escarp
what
copper moat
Whut
sacred hamlet
Dude has your mind completely gone off
You know
Girl with the mace who stuns you
peak escarp
her name is Brigitte Lindholm
dawn chasm
copper moat
đđ
sacred hamlet
Yes i know
copper moat
She fixed that little girls stuffed animal
peak escarp
she worries about Reinhardt, and is learning how to be a hero
sacred hamlet
i play game since release so i've read about every single piece of lore this shit has to offer
still boring though
can we get gonzales big bailes
the guy from retriubtion
I forgot his name
peak escarp
he's dead
sacred hamlet
HA
sacred hamlet
THAT'S WHAT YOU THINK
peak escarp
no
sacred hamlet
Jesus Christ
peak escarp
he is dead
sacred hamlet
Ana, Jack, Reyes, Mei
peak escarp
100% confirmed
sacred hamlet
genji~
peak escarp
those people were never confirmed dead
sacred hamlet
fucking everyone has been claimed dead in this game once
sacred hamlet
how do you know gonzales grande bailes is dead
just because he got shot
FUFUFU
seriously who knows
may very well be alive
peak escarp
in the epilogue of Retribution, McCree says "Our target was dead."
sacred hamlet
yeah and mcree says he's a great shot
then he fucks up a mission on a train and retires
mccree says lots of things
peak escarp
in the Declassified Venice Memorandum, it says:
McCree is a good shot
he didn't miss a single shot on that train
sacred hamlet
Mate i'm not gonna trust a piece of paper written by someone from the game
he may still be alive
sacred hamlet
still doesn't proove he's dead
peak escarp
okay then
sacred hamlet
dude anything can happen
sacred hamlet
THAT'S BEEN WRITTEN BY OVERWATCH NPCS OR SOME SHIT
It's from an average knows nothing perspective
it ain't fact
sacred hamlet
it can be taken as evidence
but it's not fact
we haven't seem his fucking body dude
dawn chasm
We saw it fly out a window
sacred hamlet
yes
peak escarp
we've had two sources saying he is dead
sacred hamlet
a widndow
peak escarp
we saw him get shot point blank in the face with a shotgun
peak escarp
people don't survive that
quasi fern
Youâre trolling bruh
quasi fern
Heâs giving evidence and youâre like âit doesnât prove heâs deadâ
dawn chasm
peak escarp
only what characters have said in the game
sacred hamlet
i mean we play from the perspective of a guy who sees himself as a now deformed Reyes
and has the memories of a young Reyes
so he must be reyes
or maybe he's not
who knows
peak escarp
that's all just his opinion
peak escarp
đ¤Ś
pure kernel
Makes sense
peak escarp
Antonio is dead
sacred hamlet
but he could be someone else
peak escarp
he is never going to be seen again
sacred hamlet
WHO KNOWS
pure kernel
Who knows
peak escarp
Tellury don't
pure kernel
Oke
sacred hamlet
Yes
dawn chasm
peak escarp
UNTIL PROVEN OTHERWISE, he is dead
sacred hamlet
he got blasted off a window
sacred hamlet
that's just from our perspective
pure kernel
I want to believe the same dood, but he as created to be killed
sacred hamlet
and the perspective of those who reported his death
they may have never found his body
peak escarp
if he isn't dead, where is he?
iron plume
from the story's perspective
sacred hamlet
who fucking knows dude
iron plume
if he isn't dead, retribution is largely pointless
peak escarp
then it's the same whether he is dead or on some beach banging chicks
quasi fern
So Ana survived a shotgun to the face?
peak escarp
he has left the story
iron plume
neither was soldier, nor reaper, not genji
iron plume
Antonio is very much presented as dead to the audience
sacred hamlet
that's what some folk at overwatch think
iron plume
christ
pure kernel
Dood let us believe what we want to believe
sacred hamlet
dude what i'm saying is that he can come back
it's not realistic
but if he were
i wouldn't question it
pure kernel
He could, but for now he's ded
sacred hamlet
Yeah
sacred hamlet
shoo who
pure kernel
Shoe
sacred hamlet
Yes i have those
pure kernel
Same
dawn chasm
relatable
peak escarp
we have no reason to doubt the evidence presented to us
sacred hamlet
I do
peak escarp
therefore we must conclude that the evidence is true
peak escarp
good for you
iron plume
open minded means able to accept new evidence that disagrees with you
so that's a đ˝ doubt
sacred hamlet
Nah Open minded is the acceptance of new ideas
iron plume
thonk
sacred hamlet
and I do believe he's dead
but i do believe
he could also
be alive
ahh
the wonders of having
A HUGE BRAIN
5Head
iron plume
you say schrodinger's cat, I say occam's razor
pure kernel
Oke
pure kernel
I agree
iron plume
not "maybe", not "but what if"
dead
pure kernel
Oke
sacred hamlet
That's close minded
iron plume
<
pure kernel
Just believe in secret
peak escarp
that's accepting the evidence
iron plume
yo the earth is flat if you disagree you're closed minded
sacred hamlet
I believe it's much healthier and progressive to accept all sorts of ideas
until the truth gets flung into your face at the speed of light as it calls you a bitch
sacred hamlet
so until gonzales de bailares gets thrown right onto my face
i believe he's neutral
party we define your kind as
"Salty"
but it's okay
it gets better with age
BY THE WAY DUDE
WHO'S TO SAY
THAT ANTONIO ISN'T AN OMNIC
like seriously the possibilities
pure kernel
Nay
peak escarp
ah I see
sacred hamlet
I believe HandsUp
pure kernel
Lmao
sacred hamlet
Not a troll
sacred hamlet
I just don't get my panties in a bunch because of a simple lore dicussion
seriously you people need to chill
sacred hamlet
good
pure kernel
Are you chill?
peak escarp
did you not read the channel description
peak escarp
this is for serious discussion
pure kernel
Good
sacred hamlet
and i am discussing seriously
pure kernel
Yes dood follow em rules
sacred hamlet
i'm just not actively throwing insults around to support my point
and you know
stuffing facts into everyone's faces
pure kernel
That's ok
peak escarp
facts are lore
sacred hamlet
"Facts"
peak escarp
that's what we're here to discuss
iron plume
well yeah
to stuff facts you'd need to have any
sacred hamlet
Yes, and I'm discussing that Antonio Gonzales Silva may still be alive
Yet you two are completely salty about my opinion
peak escarp
his name was Antonio Bartalotti
sacred hamlet
this is problematic
peak escarp
you can't even get his name right
peak escarp
which means you're shitposting
sacred hamlet
you get the point
peak escarp
which will get you banned
sacred hamlet
I am discussing about an Overwatch character
pure kernel
Oi Champ
sacred hamlet
does mentioning Toblerone in place Torbjorn also get you banned
pure kernel
C'mere boi
iron plume
it is if you're constantly doing it while pretending to take it seriously as a character
peak escarp
I'm not angry
pure kernel
It's a story, who knows what will happen
sacred hamlet
I want him in
But he may be dead
But maybe in the future
he may actually return
it's really not that difficult to grasp
now start being more polite and civil
peak escarp
the dead cannot come back
pure kernel
That's up to the big bois at blizzard
iron plume
no it isn't "difficult to grasp"
sacred hamlet
says the guy who plays a game where people can be revived
iron plume
but unless we actually get shown that he isn't
sacred hamlet
"BUT GAMEPLAY NOT CANON"
iron plume
he isn't
sacred hamlet
who's to say it's not canon
peak escarp
the devs
sacred hamlet
oh so literally everything the overwatch characters do in game is not canon
oh shit dude my bafd
cunning ledge
Yes
iron plume
inb4 "that means antonio didn't get killed"
cunning ledge
You can check pins for canon abilities
sacred hamlet
so i guess junkrat doesn't have a trap
or a grande launcher
maybe that tire in his back is too heavy for him
sacred hamlet
roadhog is unable to pull people
oh wait he can
it's literally in a comic
so let's say
some parts of overwatch are canon
cunning ledge
Oh right youâre one of those people
sacred hamlet
rezzing could be canon
iron plume
some abilities are canon
cunning ledge
I see
iron plume
again
"could be" means nothing
yes it could be
and mercy could be an alien from andromeda
unless we're actually shown it to be canon
sacred hamlet
shit dude who knows
iron plume
it's not canon
peak escarp
the devs have pointed out rez specifically as a non-canon ability
sacred hamlet
me want source
and i'm not saying she can instantly rez people with her hand movements
i'm saying she can reach that point
with you know
tools and science
iron plume
why not? you're willing to accept her rezzing despite it being admittedly non canon
why not with hand movements
why is that the line
peak escarp
I mean, doctors today can resuscitate people after they are clinically dead
where do you draw the line?
sacred hamlet
I mean what does he mean by the Devs confirmed it to be non canon
what part is non canon
mercy waving her hands and rezzing people
or people being resurrected in the first place
peak escarp
people being resurrected by her
sacred hamlet
resurrection is already a thing in the real world
peak escarp
she has not resurrected anyone in the lore
sacred hamlet
it's just done through well
shocking and a small time window
that is mostly ineffiecnt
but still
year 2076
peak escarp
she saved Genji at death's door
but he was still alive
or alive enough for it to matter
sacred hamlet
yep
depends on what you consider
"alive"
still i'm willing to accept anything
I think that's what makes a fucking sci fi game interesting
sacred hamlet
they can't possibly show everything
it's blizzard after all
writing stories
making comics
creating high quality cinematics
it takes time and effort
and we have Chu as our writer so that ain't happening
so in lore discussions
theory crafting and hypothesizing should be open
and you know "Welcomed"
iron plume
theory crafting and hypothesizing build upon evidence instead of directly contradicting it from the start
peak escarp
theory-crafting is great
provided you have a solid foundation of evidence behind your theory
without evidence, it's just a headcanon (and falls into the realm of fanfiction)
feral lintel
i have a terrible memory so i can't theory craft very well đ
sacred hamlet
and what exactly makes resurrecting someone hours or days after death in 2076 something impossible
sacred hamlet
it's a thought built on a setting
peak escarp
because we have no examples of it happening
iron plume
if you're actually trying to we're up to help out on the details @feral lintel
pure kernel
Unveil your fantasies
peak escarp
things are impossible by default, unless we see it happen
sacred hamlet
genji, reyes, jack
peak escarp
Genji was not dead
sacred hamlet
i see them as good candidates
iron plume
none of them were dead
sacred hamlet
Reyes and Genji were definitely at some kind of death's door
iron plume
which is not the same thing as dead
peak escarp
we have no idea what happened to Reyes during the explosion
we sorta have an idea of Genji's injuries, but it is clearly said that he was saved from death
not resurrected
sacred hamlet
But you're going to disresgard that the year is 2076
and that death is something really specific
you know
peak escarp
" The tension between the brothers built to a violent confrontation that left Genji on the verge of dying.
Hanzo believed that he had killed his brother, but Genji was rescued by Overwatch and the intervention of Dr. Angela Ziegler. "
on the verge of dying
it never says he was dead
sacred hamlet
also this "impossible by default, until it happens" is probably one of the dumbest things i have ever heard
I'm not sure how you even discuss these things with such a limited view
dawn chasm
iron plume
discussing things based on existing evidence, imagine that
peak escarp
it means you can't just say "well they never said it didn't happen, so therefore it's true!"
sacred hamlet
but you're saying that it never happened so it isn't true
i believe both views should be respected you know
and not fully embraced
peak escarp
Mercy has never resurrected someone, therefore she can't
sacred hamlet
and what makes you think she can't
peak escarp
because she never has
peak escarp
yes
peak escarp
we know quite a lot, actually
sacred hamlet
like what
shows us your knowledge about this game that hasn't received an important lore update since its release
sacred hamlet
shows us that Mercy is unable to operate on someone who reached a death status
in an operation bed
peak escarp
that's not resurrection
peak escarp
that's resuscitation
sacred hamlet
death
status
You say these things couldn't happen but you know nothing about Overwatch's world
both of us don't know anything
but we can
THEORIZE
on these aspects and settings
that's called
IMAGINATION
one of the greatest tools
which as lead to many great inventions
Right
peak escarp
it's not my job to write the lore
iron plume
speaking of the greatest tools
peak escarp
I'll leave that to the professionals
sacred hamlet
and it's certainly not your job to disresgard any possibilities
'cause once again
what you said is stupid
read a book from time to time
peak escarp
how is it stupid?
I've probably read more books than you
but let's not make this personal
sacred hamlet
"Impossible by default, until it happens."
That is stupid
You need to think more about that
sacred hamlet
We shouldn't
peak escarp
the OW universe has established rules
sacred hamlet
Dude if you're so addicted to information only listed in game
Why don't you listen to the main fucking character of the game
peak escarp
that's what this channel is for
peak escarp
it's for discussing the lore in the game
not making up our own
that is called fan fiction
sacred hamlet
You're basically trying to nullify theorycrafting
so no, you're wrong
and yeah
one of Winston's line is literally
pure kernel
Oi champ
sacred hamlet
"Imagination is the essence of discovery"
peak escarp
like I said before
sacred hamlet
That's fucking ironic
pure kernel
Champ
peak escarp
theory-crafting is based on evidence
pure kernel
Psst
pure kernel
Wassup
pure kernel
So
pure kernel
Nvm
iron plume
thank based rofl
brisk bay
lucky jewv isn't here 
brisk bay
carry on then
peak escarp
such as?
clever pulsar
I'm still waiting on a Sym/Lucio duel Cinematic
sacred hamlet
it is kinda hard to believe since Doomfist became talon's leader
which supports antonio's deeath
but who knows
by the way the cinematic is never coming, they probably scrapped it for something else
very sad
peak escarp
we're very likely to get a cinematic next week at Blizzcon
sacred hamlet
Yes, and it's going to be based on McCree.
peak escarp
they've had one there the last two years
sacred hamlet
Probably.
peak escarp
maybe
sacred hamlet
Yes
peak escarp
that would be nice
sacred hamlet
maybe it's something else
peak escarp
he is my favourite
peak escarp
I'd like to know more about Torb's past
his role during the omnic crisis and before, his work designing omnics for Omnica
and more about his family
his other kids and grandkids
pure kernel
Nonsense, Rein's truth about his retirement
sacred hamlet
he had a lot of romantic coitus
he built robots
he built omnics
omnics turned bad
sacred hamlet
torb now feels responsible and is now venturing throughought the world in search of those bad tin cans
so he can scrap them
the end
peak escarp
he did find one
sacred hamlet
Yes
peak escarp
but decided not to scrap it
earnest epoch
guys is it true that tracers lesbianness got retconned or is my friend trolling me
pure kernel
Bastion
pure kernel
She's gayer than the AsapSCIENCE dudes
pure kernel
nvm
sacred hamlet
The community made Tracer being lesbian such a huge mindblowing thing but that has lead to nothing to this day
peak escarp
people made a big deal out of it
sacred hamlet
The moral of the story is that people should just accept homosexual people as a normal thing in life
iron plume
why does a character's sexual orientation need to "lead to anything"
peak escarp
lol
sacred hamlet
it doesn't have to lead up to anything
sacred hamlet
but the overwatch community thought it was important and would change everything
but dude she's just gay
let her be gay
peak escarp
I meant "big deal" in a negative way
sacred hamlet
yes
iron plume
...who thought it would change everything?
sacred hamlet
making a big deal of homosexuality is just dumb
peak escarp
a lot of people were upset about it for no reason
iron plume
Some people said it changed a lot for them
sacred hamlet
makes it unnatural
iron plume
because they found a hero to represent them
pure kernel
Game became more popular
iron plume
but no one thought it'd be a big deal in the story
pure kernel
Just saying
sacred hamlet
said it would affect gaming forever, open up the lore, all that stuff
iron plume
...no
sacred hamlet
but dude it's just a gay person
iron plume
no they didn't
iron plume
lmao
sacred hamlet
I member
iron plume
People said it's a big breakthrough in representation
and it is
but no one said the story would change because of it
sacred hamlet
well i do believe something different but i guess you're right
even though seeing it as a "great breakthrough" is too exagerrated
homosexuality has been represented in games way before Overwatch was a thing
subtle moss
Way waaaaaay before
errant void
Hey, Mega Gay Person here, and no one was saying it would change the gameplay of Overwatch lmao. Yes, a lot of people were excited for a canon gay character, but come on lol
And yes, it is a big deal, if you don't see it as such, that's fine, but to the LGBTQ+ community, a community that has commonly been shelved in canon lore of games and other forms of media, it is important.
subtle moss
Fine to be excited for a gay character in OW specifically but it's hardly the first and hardly the last.
errant void
The only important thing about Tracer, of course not. But to some people, it matters a lot, and theres nothing wrong with that
iron plume
that's a very good sentiment
but with this guy I wouldn't bother
subtle moss
The main thing is that her being gay hasn't been made a big deal or focus of.
Which I can praise.
Well, by the game itself.
peak escarp
I agree, it was handled well
errant void
And I agree completely with that, it isn't her total character, and that's a great thing. She's just a lesbian hero of Overwatch, no biggie. Good representation
Do some people take those things... Too far, yes. But we won't talk about those people and we'll enjoy canon :')
feral lintel
yep. i have some heroes in mind that i personally think would be good as lgbt+, but i'm not expecting blizzard to read my mind and pander to me.
earnest epoch
who would that be im lowkey curious
errant void
I would say Sombra, but maybe that's just her personality.
feral lintel
i think either mccree or sombra (or both, whatever)
errant void
Yeah, I agree
peak escarp
those seem the most likely
errant void
Would it change anything... No. But if there to be either LGBTQ+ heroes, it would most likely be them.
In my opinion, at least, I could be totally wrong on every level lol
feral lintel
idk what it is about mccree, though. as a gay person, i'm just getting that sort of vibe from his mannerisms???
feral lintel
and also i'm thinking like... what straight man would unironically dress up as a cowboy in the year 2076? but that's more just humor, lol
alpine lake
Tru fact
peak escarp
maybe he just likes westerns
alpine lake
đ¤
feral lintel
he does mention them at some point, yeah, so he's likely a fan
alpine lake
Its either that or its just a bit of meta from the game
feral lintel
đ¤ˇ
alpine lake
ÂŻ_(ă)_/ÂŻ
earnest epoch
if I had to make a real educated guess itd be mccree
I dont think they would make another woman a lesbian
alpine lake
Yeah
earnest epoch
neither would I think they would reveal that a character is trans because that would be too brave
feral lintel
who knows? it's possible
earnest epoch
and they would get big backlash
violet breach
yea in this climate rn
feral lintel
they already pushed the boundaries by making the face of the game a lesbian
earnest epoch
also mccree has a big fanbase and it would breath more life into the game
earnest epoch
but they would never give him like a relationship that he has rn because it would destroy like the biggest ship
peak escarp
I don't think they could reveal an existing hero to be trans, but I could see them adding one who is
@earnest epoch I wish they would destroy that big ship
it needs to stop
iron plume
they won't add one straight up saying it from the start
because then they're "the trans hero" forever
frosty shell
yeah
peak escarp
no but they could reveal it
iron plume
it's exactly what they've avoided with tracer
peak escarp
and probably have a trans actor for their voice
feral lintel
there's an ambiguously trans character (depending on whether you'd count omnics as trans) in the comics who could be added to the game
alpine lake
That makes sense
peak escarp
people would be mad if a trans hero didn't have a trans voice
alpine lake
I think the game needs more omnics
iron plume
you mean do the reveal for a future character? yeah that could work
peak escarp
I don't remember who suggested it
alpine lake
An omnic with a trans voice actor would be great
subtle moss
Retconning an established one? Way to piss off their fanbase.
peak escarp
but giving them an Archives spray that showed them as a child would be a good way to reveal it
lucid vessel
If you mean Lynx they're more presented as enby @feral lintel
iron plume
there isn't a bio sayin MCCREE WAS BORN WITH A DICK YALL
subtle moss
It would be clear pandering.
iron plume
it's not a retcon if it's the first official information regarding a subject
lucid vessel
Chu called them gender neutral
iron plume
just because people are assumed to be cis that doesn't mean the heroes are confirmed to
for existing heroes, Sombra makes the most sense
what with her "forging an identity for yourself" thing
feral lintel
@lucid vessel some nb people consider themselves as part of the "trans" umbrella, but i guess it varies from person to person
feral lintel
sorry if i offended đ
subtle moss
It would still be clear pandering to force it on an existing character. A new one that had it as a minor part of their backstory would be interesting though.
iron plume
"pandering is representation i don't like"
subtle moss
Unless it was Roadhog, but then it would just be a meme.
iron plume
wdym force it
feral lintel
adding a new dimension to a character that didn't have it before wouldn't be forced at all
violet breach
yeah wdym force
iron plume
and if they made a new one you'd still complain because the reveal would happen after they were established
earnest epoch
thered be a lot of ppl who would be happy with gay roadhog and would not see it as a meme đ
iron plume
they're not going to introduce a character with that
earnest epoch
just putting that out there
lucid vessel
I mean, overwatch has like three pages of lore
peak escarp
there's more lore than that
earnest epoch
I DONT MEAN ME I KNOW IT LOOKS LIKE IT WOULD BE ME BUT ITS NOT
subtle moss
I literally just said I'd like it as a minor part of a new character's backstory and you've flat out ignored what I said.
earnest epoch
I would want gay reinhardt anyways
iron plume
no, I contend with what you said
if the new character is introduced as such
then it becomes their sole definition in the eyes of the community
which is something blizz absolutely do not want
subtle moss
And yet you're more than happy to screw with people's existing definitions.
earnest epoch
party magician is making some points
iron plume
and if a new character is made, "established", and then revealed to be trans, you'll be complaining about it for the same reason you're complaining about current ones
yes I am happy to "screw with existing definitions"
because sometimes those definitions are straight up wrong
and sometimes the other definitions make for a better story
iron plume
just because you snap to all heroes being cis by default doesn't mean them being trans would be a retcon
because it is never stated as such
subtle moss
It's not supposed to be the defining trait of the new hero.
violet breach
party magician is correct
iron plume
screenshotted, printed and framed on the wall
if a new hero is revealed as trans immediately
it will be their defining trait
violet breach
yes
iron plume
whether blizz wants it to be or not
subtle moss
Or they could have other defining traits, but whatever.
iron plume
that's not in their control
if you take a character that's not formed in the eyes of the audience
and have that as one of the first things they know
they will be "OVERWATCH ADDS TRANS HERO" forever
lucid vessel
I'd be totally cool with an existing character having a little note added saying they're trans, purely for the fact that the game takes place in like 2080 and medical technology has obviously increased exponentially
iron plume
I'd rather it be something more interesting than a note
like Doc mentioned, an archives spray would be cool
most heroes have one of them being younger and it would be both a good subtle reveal and a cool touch to have that spray be of a different presented gender
lucid vessel
Ye that'd be cool
iron plume
plus it wouldn't get the game banned in russia
earnest epoch
maybe the struggles of transitioning would get kinda removed from huge technology but maybe the like struggles of finding an identity could be presented in an interesting way
iron plume
I have selfish interest in that
earnest epoch
in like a lore story thing
iron plume
yeah
which is a reason sombra would be a good fit
because she already did need to find a new identity
that said I doubt they'll dwell on that much in story
subtle moss
Oh, and the reason I said 'force' is because it's just you pushing what you'd like onto the character completely heedless of what their existing fanbase might want. Outside of Roadhog which again would probably just be a meme. You're saying it's only minor but apparently it's major enough to take over the entire identity of any new character with it even if only shown as a footnote.
iron plume
1, way to miss the point
subtle moss
In other words it would be a 'large thing.'
iron plume
2, I'm not pushing anything, I'm saying what Blizzard might do
subtle moss
They won't.
iron plume
well sombra could definitely have a large thing
and yes it can take over an identity of a new character
subtle moss
Not with OW tech, that would just be fetishizing.
iron plume
because it's a new character
earnest epoch
thats what they already did with tracer
subtle moss
And it would take over the old one too.
iron plume
no it wouldn't
earnest epoch
and yeah a bunch of ppl got upset but nobody rly cared so
iron plume
because they're already a formed image
subtle moss
Yes it would.
iron plume
that this just adds to
and doesn't dictate the formation
it's "Tracer is actually a lesbian"
subtle moss
No, it would completely take over.
iron plume
versus "Overwatch adds a lesbian"
subtle moss
That was a safe play.
iron plume
...
lucid vessel
Was Tracer explicitly said to be a lesbian, or just into girls
earnest epoch
lesbian
lucid vessel
Source?
iron plume
after the comic release Chu confirmed on twitter
earnest epoch
lucid vessel
Aight, cool
And as someone who's like once removed from being trans I don't care if it never happens, but it'd be cool
subtle moss
It doesn't dictate the formation but it heavily upheaves and redefines what already exists.
iron plume
yes
so does every addition to a character
especially one that goes against expectations
earnest epoch
there was nothing canon that already existed tho its all just in peoples heads
iron plume
but it doesn't make that their sole purpose
subtle moss
I'd be happy with a new hero, but I respect existing character's fans (for the most part.)
earnest epoch
it didnt go from tracer has a boyfriend to tracer is a lesbian
it went from we dont know anything abt tracers sexuality to tracer is a lesbian
iron plume
because you get new information about a character that's already formed
and no it doesn't mean everything you get is a retcon
because a character can be formed but still have blank spaces
but it does mean the definition of the character is "the cowboy vigilante" or "the time-traveling british shit" or "the hacker that works for talon but not really"
instead of "it's the trans one"
subtle moss
Again, it would absolutely take over and I don't understand you not realising that.
subtle moss
Different.
iron plume
how
earnest epoch
no?
iron plume
just because it's more rare?
subtle moss
Well, for all you're talking about with how it would be cool to have it as a 'finding their identity' thing I'm surprised you didn't realise it would basically be their identity.
iron plume
not if you add it to an existing character
subtle moss
Also "overwatch releases trans hero" is no different to "overwatch's secret trans hero". We can all come up with clickbait.
iron plume
of course there will be news
but the news will be "Overwatch's Sombra/Moira/McCree/whatever is revealed to be trans"
rather than "overwatch adds trans hero"
see the difference?
hint: one actually still refers to their character
earnest epoch
yeah party magiciann is speaking facts
iron plume
i'm on fucking fire today bruv
earnest epoch
awndkjanwd
subtle moss
Pure conjecture. Neither of us are speaking 'facts.'
earnest epoch
ok but what hes saying makes a lot of sense
subtle moss
To you.
And that's fine.
But some of it is nonsensical to me, though some of it makes sense.
I highly doubt Blizzard would make such a risky move, the best you could hope for would be a random tweet from Chu. Followed by people like Party being happy and most of that character's existing fanbase being 'wait, what?'
With Roadhog again being the exception. And maybe Moira now that I think about it.
iron plume
I love how you've gotten the implication that I'm pulling hard for it for some reason
and no, a random tweet from Chu would be worse than nothing
because it's peak Dumbldoreing
lucid vessel
Gimme some bi characters tbh
iron plume
let mccree smash
lucid vessel
Let McCree be the Jack Harkness of Overwatch
frosty shell
you could have a background character be transgender or something
craggy thistle
valid shell
She's an AI.
timid eagle
Dumbledoring is actual terminology?
worthy rose
when you never played mei but you get on fire with her and get a quad kill
limpid agate
@timid eagle It refers to Dumbledore not appearing as gay until after the movies were done, in an interview.
timid eagle
Huh.
limpid agate
That's... What
Thats not the same at all
Gaslighting is tricking someone into thinking they're going crazy
peak escarp
in the Dumbledore case, it was a major character detail that wasn't hinted at at all in the main text
none of Chu's tweets have been that egregious
subtle moss
Wasn't the entire reason people thought he might have even been gay in the first case because of Grindlewald... which would have been a main text hint.
Then again I never paid any attention to that stuff.
peak escarp
I don't know
I don't follow HP
I think after Honor and Glory (or maybe earlier) Chu confirmed that Brigitte was Torbjorn's daughter
but that has been hinted at since Reflections
peak escarp
oh right
but Reflections was still before that, and people did suspect it then too
it was the spray that really confirmed it
is Brigitte the only hero that appears in another hero's sprays?
well
limpid agate
Torb/Rein are in hers
limpid agate
Pharah/Rein are not in each others sprays. They have ice fishing partner sprays, but arent physically in each others.
valid shell
Aah.
peak escarp
yeah
valid shell
So that's what I was thinking of.
limpid agate
Brig is in Torbs
Torb/Rein are in Brigs.
Pharah is in Ana's
peak escarp
Hanzo/Genji and Soldier/Reaper have matching sprays too
limpid agate
For matching, theres also
peak escarp
Brig is also in Rein's LNY spray