#lore-discussion | Overwatch | Page 338

worthy rose Oct 11, 2018, 4:19 PM

#

get over yourself

peak escarp Oct 11, 2018, 4:19 PM

#

I bet even 60 years later the Canucks still haven't won the cup

iron plume Oct 11, 2018, 4:19 PM

#

~~the world will end before they do~~

valid shell Oct 11, 2018, 4:19 PM

#

Homie, India's a totally different country.

#

This isn't a race thing.

iron plume Oct 11, 2018, 4:20 PM

#

are we really doing this

valid shell Oct 11, 2018, 4:20 PM

#

Its basic geography.

worthy rose Oct 11, 2018, 4:20 PM

#

here we go again

#

binge, get back on topic

regal coyote Oct 11, 2018, 4:20 PM

#

binge stop being overly sjw, north american natives can be called indians in old english speak

worthy rose Oct 11, 2018, 4:20 PM

#

my uncle is cree, he calls himself indian

iron plume Oct 11, 2018, 4:20 PM

#

why does everyone trying to tone it down make it worse

regal coyote Oct 11, 2018, 4:20 PM

#

but yeah it is confusing since vancouver have a reasonable population of indians too

valid shell Oct 11, 2018, 4:21 PM

#

There's lots of alternate words for demographics in "old speak".

#

Let's not use them though.

regal coyote Oct 11, 2018, 4:21 PM

#

my point as rommsey say

#

some tribes still use the words themselves

worthy rose Oct 11, 2018, 4:21 PM

#

So back to the question, Chu was hinting at a character like Tomahawk? (Mortal Kombat)

regal coyote Oct 11, 2018, 4:21 PM

#

and it is not a negative wod

iron plume Oct 11, 2018, 4:21 PM

#

no he wasn't

worthy rose Oct 11, 2018, 4:22 PM

#

ah k

peak escarp Oct 11, 2018, 4:22 PM

#

I don't think Sam will be a playable character

iron plume Oct 11, 2018, 4:22 PM

#

Sam is a civil servant, not a warrior

regal coyote Oct 11, 2018, 4:22 PM

#

T.Hawk from street fighters series?

#

no

#

hopefully not

iron plume Oct 11, 2018, 4:22 PM

#

and it's unlikely that he will be a hero

valid shell Oct 11, 2018, 4:22 PM

#

Sam won't be playable.

#

He's a noncombatant.

regal coyote Oct 11, 2018, 4:22 PM

#

sam is probably not good for combat, though he might be types like park ranger

#

now there might be a chance he got one of his relative to join the new ow

iron plume Oct 11, 2018, 4:23 PM

#

I'm not putting anything out of reach but yeah no

regal coyote Oct 11, 2018, 4:23 PM

#

i am saying there can be a chance

#

and eventually they will push out a canadian, or part canadian, knowing blizz prefer to give fans what they want in some way

iron plume Oct 11, 2018, 4:24 PM

#

Any currently uninvolved family members would have to go through a brigitte arc

valid shell Oct 11, 2018, 4:24 PM

#

I'd love a Native Canadian hero, just not Sam.

worthy rose Oct 11, 2018, 4:24 PM

#

so a Dane?

#

cool story

valid shell Oct 11, 2018, 4:24 PM

#

No, not Danish.

peak escarp Oct 11, 2018, 4:24 PM

#

my theory is that Sam is a Canadian ambassador, and he met Ana while he was assigned to the Canadian embassy in Egypt

valid shell Oct 11, 2018, 4:24 PM

#

I explicitly said Canadian.

worthy rose Oct 11, 2018, 4:24 PM

#

Danish + Canadian characters...hockey rivalry

peak escarp Oct 11, 2018, 4:24 PM

#

nothing to back that up though, just an idea I liked

iron plume Oct 11, 2018, 4:24 PM

#

where they're simultaneously formed out as a character and being moved to become closer to battle

worthy rose Oct 11, 2018, 4:25 PM

#

the one link for Sam being a civil servant is dead from the wiki, anyone have another link?

iron plume Oct 11, 2018, 4:25 PM

#

I doubt they'll reveal how they met unless it's part of some big deal event

worthy rose Oct 11, 2018, 4:25 PM

#

good point

iron plume Oct 11, 2018, 4:25 PM

#

and as a headcanon this sounds nice

valid shell Oct 11, 2018, 4:25 PM

#

Be neat if a member of Sam's community heard grand Reinhardt-esque Overwatch stories from Pharah while she was living there.

peak escarp Oct 11, 2018, 4:26 PM

#

https://youtu.be/bj56ejM5EcU?t=2843

YouTube

GDC

Thinking Globally: Building the Optimistic Future of Overwatch

In this 2017 GDC session, Blizzard's Michael Chu explains how a team-based multiplayer shooter went from a simple idea: "a world worth fighting for," and end...

▶ Play video

#

video is timestamped

valid shell Oct 11, 2018, 4:26 PM

#

Make for a good "next generation" OW agent alongside Brigs.

peak escarp Oct 11, 2018, 4:27 PM

#

"...we always wanted Pharah's parents to be important to her. One a soldier and one a public servant of another type. So, we decided that Ana would be the soldier..."

valid shell Oct 11, 2018, 4:27 PM

#

Mountie could b good.

worthy rose Oct 11, 2018, 4:27 PM

#

of another type seems weighted

#

mountie

#

woot

peak escarp Oct 11, 2018, 4:28 PM

#

"public servant" is a very general descriptor

worthy rose Oct 11, 2018, 4:28 PM

#

would totally be cool

peak escarp Oct 11, 2018, 4:28 PM

#

could be basically anything

valid shell Oct 11, 2018, 4:28 PM

#

There's some dope fanart of mountie Sam somewhere.

worthy rose Oct 11, 2018, 4:28 PM

#

handcuff crowd control

iron plume Oct 11, 2018, 4:29 PM

#

how about no

worthy rose Oct 11, 2018, 4:29 PM

#

ty for link

peak escarp Oct 11, 2018, 4:29 PM

#

also I reccomend watching that entire video when you get a chance

#

it perfectly lays out their philosophy on worldbuilding, and addresses the fact that they have made some mistakes

worthy rose Oct 11, 2018, 4:30 PM

#

well at least they are honest about their product compared to say dishonest speculation and assertions

#

made mistakes then references torb

#

so the picture at 52:01 and public servant I wonder if Sam is like a UN worker or something

#

🤔

peak escarp Oct 11, 2018, 4:31 PM

#

now if only they'd correct the rest of the incorrect artwork

worthy rose Oct 11, 2018, 4:32 PM

#

?

regal coyote Oct 11, 2018, 4:32 PM

#

personally i dont think they have "made mistakes" mroe than overwatch grew much bigger than their expectation so they have to do more to make it expandable and growable

peak escarp Oct 11, 2018, 4:33 PM

#

the UN medals picture - Ana should be older

cunning ledge Oct 11, 2018, 4:33 PM

#

there's also that torbjorn group picture left arm fuckery

regal coyote Oct 11, 2018, 4:33 PM

#

some old work of media is incoorrect, usually in terms of humans growing meat arms or age

peak escarp Oct 11, 2018, 4:34 PM

#

📎 latest.png

#

this one too

#

📎 original-overwatch.png

#

these ones are wrong because at the time, they hadn't designed older Ana

worthy rose Oct 11, 2018, 4:35 PM

#

the medals look like MOH

peak escarp Oct 11, 2018, 4:35 PM

#

they just had the young design from Soldier's origin story

#

so they used it without thinking about the timeline

#

I remember reading once that someone thought the old white guy shaking hands with the omnic was Gabrielle Adawe

#

and I just . . . 🤦

cunning ledge Oct 11, 2018, 4:39 PM

#

jesus christ

limpid agate Oct 11, 2018, 4:44 PM

#

Oh good, someone made a video of the interactions. Should go through them and see which combos I missed

peak escarp Oct 11, 2018, 4:46 PM

#

Hammeh's analysis of them is up too

limpid agate Oct 11, 2018, 4:46 PM

#

Link it

peak escarp Oct 11, 2018, 4:47 PM

#

https://youtu.be/w3iiyN6ot1A

YouTube

Hammeh

Overwatch - 50+ NEW Halloween Interactions and Voice Lines! | Hammeh

Overwatch interactions and Overwatch Lore have had a boost in Halloween Terror 2018, with more interactions being added over the last month too! Overwatch He...

▶ Play video

limpid agate Oct 11, 2018, 4:47 PM

#

peak escarp Oct 11, 2018, 4:48 PM

#

he's got a few the other one didn't have

limpid agate Oct 11, 2018, 4:49 PM

#

Example?

peak escarp Oct 11, 2018, 4:49 PM

#

there's two responses from Pharah when Torbjorn asks her what her holiday plans are

limpid agate Oct 11, 2018, 4:50 PM

#

I heard those

peak escarp Oct 11, 2018, 4:50 PM

#

I only heard one of those in the other video

#

"I'm flying home to see my dad."
"Im going to head to Canada to see my dad"

#

interesting that she considers Canada as "home"

limpid agate Oct 11, 2018, 4:51 PM

#

Yeah there were two, not sure which is in game

peak escarp Oct 11, 2018, 4:51 PM

#

maybe she was partially raised there

limpid agate Oct 11, 2018, 4:51 PM

#

Probably

feral lintel Oct 11, 2018, 5:00 PM

#

i think that even if sam tried raising her in canada, she would've wanted to be with ana at overwatch

long ermine Oct 11, 2018, 5:34 PM

#

I don’t think ana and the dad are on great terms

#

Probably neither are ana and pharah, given that ana didn’t want her to join Overwatch

peak escarp Oct 11, 2018, 5:36 PM

#

faking your death does have a way of alienating people

worthy rose Oct 11, 2018, 5:58 PM

#

I found something in the noncanon section about dat

#

"Having faked my own death, I can never return to Overwatch. You have no idea how serious they are about insurance fraud."

cunning ledge Oct 11, 2018, 5:59 PM

#

hots?

worthy rose Oct 11, 2018, 5:59 PM

#

yep thats why I said noncanon section

feral lintel Oct 11, 2018, 6:08 PM

#

the lore and the game are two completely different entities at this point

cunning ledge Oct 11, 2018, 6:09 PM

#

at this point?

#

they've always been

feral lintel Oct 11, 2018, 6:10 PM

#

nope. blizzard marketed the lore as being important to the game before it was released

limpid agate Oct 11, 2018, 6:16 PM

#

Blizz marketed the game being about characters

#

And it still is

#

Its a character based game with a heavy focus on the characters

feral lintel Oct 11, 2018, 6:23 PM

#

if the lore is so irrelevant then why do people care about it so much?

iron plume Oct 11, 2018, 6:27 PM

#

Game’s action not being canon is not the same thing as “lore is irrelevant”

feral lintel Oct 11, 2018, 6:28 PM

#

it's not just the action. nothing in-game is canon

iron plume Oct 11, 2018, 6:29 PM

#

The characters are, the locations are, their relationships are, although some are what-if

feral lintel Oct 11, 2018, 6:31 PM

#

not really. brigitte and pharah have interactions in-game that indicate they're friends, but they probably don't know each other in the lore

feral lintel Oct 11, 2018, 6:59 PM

#

and there are maps that are never mentioned in the lore, such as blizzard world, ilios, ayutthaya and petra

regal coyote Oct 11, 2018, 7:16 PM

#

on the contraty i am sure they do know each other in lore

#

it is jsut that their last meeting is probably many mny years ago when brig is a kid/baby

feral lintel Oct 11, 2018, 7:19 PM

#

brig was 3 years old and pharah was 12 when overwatch formed, i think

valid shell Oct 11, 2018, 7:36 PM

#

@feral lintel Fareeha was a newborn when OW formed.

#

And Brigs wasn't alive.

peak escarp Oct 11, 2018, 9:35 PM

#

Overwatch was formed during the Omnic Crisis, which started ~30 years ago and ended ~25 years ago

limpid agate Oct 11, 2018, 11:53 PM

#

not really. brigitte and pharah have interactions in-game that indicate they're friends, but they probably don't know each other in the lore
Why would they have never met?

#

@feral lintel Pharah was 2, Brig was -7.

peak escarp Oct 11, 2018, 11:55 PM

#

also, their parents were friends

#

they definitely would have met

#

but plenty of people have interactions in the game who likely haven't met

#

like Junkrat and anyone other than Roadhog

limpid agate Oct 11, 2018, 11:57 PM

#

Considering the context of the interaction

#

Its implied they have met

cedar galleon Oct 12, 2018, 1:30 AM

#

What would a reformed overwatch look like?

limpid agate Oct 12, 2018, 1:30 AM

#

Like Winston/Tracer playing vigilante

#

Like you see in the exhibit short

cedar galleon Oct 12, 2018, 1:30 AM

#

S76 doesnt seem interested in reviving it so who would lead

limpid agate Oct 12, 2018, 1:30 AM

#

Winston

cedar galleon Oct 12, 2018, 1:30 AM

#

I meant a more official reformation

limpid agate Oct 12, 2018, 1:31 AM

#

Wont happen so long as its illegal.

#

Right now its just 4-8 people

#

Tracer, Winston, Rein, Mei

#

And implied Genji, Brig, Torbjorn, Bastion

cedar galleon Oct 12, 2018, 1:32 AM

#

Thats what I meant, if the lore progressed and it wasnt illegal. I agree those characters at least

limpid agate Oct 12, 2018, 1:33 AM

#

Chances are, McCree will return as well. But thats it for the ex-Overwatch members

#

Mercy is a pacifist that was against Overwatch and thinks its better gone

#

Jack/Ana are doing their own thing

#

Reyes/Moira are leaders of talon

cedar galleon Oct 12, 2018, 1:33 AM

#

Any nuetral goodies that would fit in?

#

Perhaps zenyatta?

limpid agate Oct 12, 2018, 1:34 AM

#

Potentially anyone can fit in.

cedar galleon Oct 12, 2018, 1:35 AM

#

If only there was a faction, or some plot device to congregate the nuetrals like hammond and sym

limpid agate Oct 12, 2018, 1:41 AM

#

Sym isn't exactly neutral, persay

#

She doesn't know it, but she is working for Talon

#

Because her boss Sanjay is one of Talon's leaders

lavish mural Oct 12, 2018, 1:47 AM

#

Sombra has a new interaction with Symmetra...letting her know that she has information about Sym's employer, but doesn't tell her specifics

cursive jackal Oct 12, 2018, 1:53 AM

#

i think the lore in this game would be better portrayed with something that a constant updating story instead of mothly events that we cant go back 2. like a game does lore by stories an adds in a chunk of lore each installment

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 1:55 AM

#

all of the lore we get from the Archives event can be viewed over and over in the form of youtube videos

lavish mural Oct 12, 2018, 1:55 AM

#

This game has a lot of lore that Blizzard isn't capitalizing on...

limpid agate Oct 12, 2018, 1:59 AM

#

Aaaand just finished updating the wiki with the voicelines.

#

I did not add in audio files for every single one. This already took a long time.

#

Looks like I started 2 hours ago

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 2:00 AM

#

Jewvia doing the hard work

limpid agate Oct 12, 2018, 2:01 AM

#

I added Moira's lines and I think a couple others.

#

If I missed something, let me know. Or add it yourself.

runic scroll Oct 12, 2018, 3:17 AM

#

when was it hinted that torb would join new OW?

#

was it one of his comics?

#

i can see why bastion would join if torb joins, but i don't remember seeing something that suggests torb joining

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 3:19 AM

#

the only thing we have to suggest that Torbjorn has met up with new OW is the end of the Blizzard World trailer

#

📎 unknown.png

#

which is questionable in terms of canonicity

#

from the comics, the only link we have is between Torb and Bastion

#

it also just makes sense that Torbjorn would bring Bastion to Gibraltar - Overwatch would be a safe place to keep it, away from anyone who would want to deactivate it or use it as a weapon

urban coyote Oct 12, 2018, 3:37 AM

#

Due to an interaction that was added, Tracer wanted it to be her not Mondatta to be shot. She even thought the world would be better without her. She was part of Overwatch, what would they do without Pilots like Tracer? I feel bad that Genji hears that Tracer didn't want anything about everything from "Alive".

limpid agate Oct 12, 2018, 3:38 AM

#

Mondatta died after Overwatch shut down @urban coyote

#

At that time, she hadnt been a pilot for ~5-6 years

urban coyote Oct 12, 2018, 3:38 AM

#

Tracer tried to save him after all

#

It still feels so sad

#

Especially for Zenyatta

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 3:43 AM

#

Tracer did save Mondatta once - he was one of the hostages during the King's Row Uprising

#

she just couldn't save him the second time

timid eagle Oct 12, 2018, 3:50 AM

#

I have a theory as to why Sombra sounded sad, when she was nosing through Reinhardt’s file.

#

Reinhardt could have a medical condition that forced his retirement.

urban coyote Oct 12, 2018, 3:53 AM

#

He still wanted to fight until his death, as seen in an interaction with Mercy

timid eagle Oct 12, 2018, 3:56 AM

#

Reinhardt could be diagnosed with Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy, & he could be through the second stage of the condition.

#

It’s a symptom that football players, pro wrestlers, or anyone who has their head hit a lot.

The symptoms include social instability, ADHD, poor judgement, memory disorders, etc.

#

Considering, well, Reinhardt, who insists possibly/seriously that all his tall tales are completely true, & one of his abilities is to slam himself against walls on a regular basis.

#

Let’s be honest. Overwatch cutting him lose by retiring, instead of suggesting THERAPY, us probably another piss poor decision on their end.

#

It’s been implied that it’s management was increasingly mishandled in its late years. More so when Ana, Gabe, & Jack died.

#

It’s a crack pot theory, I know.

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 4:05 AM

#

there's also the fact that he has to be taken care of by brigitte

#

which further adds to that possibility

timid eagle Oct 12, 2018, 4:06 AM

#

Also, the fact that his brain is going out on him means on some level that he knows that he’s at least losing his mind. So, the dude is choosing to go down swinging (both literally and figuratively.

urban coyote Oct 12, 2018, 4:06 AM

#

The more he gets damaged, the less he lives or get brain damaged

#

Like, he uses too many body energy for the battle.

timid eagle Oct 12, 2018, 4:07 AM

#

This is the same character who also got an American Football skin. :/

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:07 AM

#

I still think that if they're going to kill off a hero, it will be Reinhardt

timid eagle Oct 12, 2018, 4:09 AM

#

“Remember, squire. Be the shield your team needs you to be.”

urban coyote Oct 12, 2018, 4:09 AM

#

It would be someone on Overwatch, unless D.Va hardens after the events of "Shooting Star"

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:10 AM

#

his death would have the biggest emotional impact, and he already has a successor lined up

urban coyote Oct 12, 2018, 4:11 AM

#

Him being dead will upset people from Ana - Torbjörn

timid eagle Oct 12, 2018, 4:11 AM

#

Torbjorn would be devastated. The family friend who saved his hide on more than one occasion.

urban coyote Oct 12, 2018, 4:12 AM

#

So would Brigitte, the Lindholm family had Reinhardt on their side.

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:12 AM

#

I don't think there isn't a single person who knows Reinhardt that wouldn't be devastated by his death

#

he's just the sort of person who affects everyone he comes into contact with

urban coyote Oct 12, 2018, 4:13 AM

#

Besides people like Reaper

timid eagle Oct 12, 2018, 4:14 AM

#

Jack would feel responsible (either directly or indirectly) that the organization forced him to retire. I don’t know how he would react to Reinhardt’s death.

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:14 AM

#

I think even Reaper (if he still has any emotions at all) would still mourn him

#

and judging by his "longingly staring at a happy family" appearance in Reflections, I'd say he still has emotions

urban coyote Oct 12, 2018, 4:15 AM

#

Reaper is a terrorist. We would be glad for his death

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 4:16 AM

#

If moria worked on widow and took her feelings why wouldnt she do the same for reaper?

timid eagle Oct 12, 2018, 4:16 AM

#

Dude is....Complicated.

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:16 AM

#

Reaper is still a person

#

he has a heart

urban coyote Oct 12, 2018, 4:16 AM

#

She was brainwashed but that was told before the concept on Moira

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:16 AM

#

when Ana unmasked him, Reaper fled instead of continuing the fight

#

he could have easily overpowered her while she was shocked

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 4:17 AM

#

And also i like how haveing the knowlage to turn people into shadows isnt something people think about moria having

#

actualyl what is reaper and his powers?

urban coyote Oct 12, 2018, 4:17 AM

#

He was quite embarrassed

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 4:17 AM

#

actually *

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:17 AM

#

we aren't entirely sure how Moira gave Reaper his powers

#

I think it was Moira tinkering around with his SEP augmentations

#

so the same thing wouldn't work on other people unless she used his DNA to do it

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 4:18 AM

#

ah

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 4:19 AM

#

moira gave reaper his powers by using mercy's technology against her wishes, passing the moral boundary

#

she made him immortal with it, in return for keeping him from dying

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:19 AM

#

Mercy's research was accessible to the public

urban coyote Oct 12, 2018, 4:19 AM

#

It still confuses me why he became who he is now, he was in Overwatch as Gabriel and as Soldier: 24 and then Blackwatch to become a terrorist.

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:19 AM

#

it wasn't used "against her wishes" - it was used without her knowledge

#

yeah, they haven't filled in that gap yet

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 4:20 AM

#

it was used against her wishes as in used in a way that mercy did not want people to use it for

#

i didnt mean she literally went against mercy telling her not to

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 4:20 AM

#

Ok so the whole blackwatch Thing is cacon right?

#

like the in game event

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:20 AM

#

there had to have been something big for him to go from Blackwatch commander to Talon leader

#

yes

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 4:20 AM

#

Ok genji

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:20 AM

#

the Retribution event is canon

urban coyote Oct 12, 2018, 4:21 AM

#

Yep

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 4:21 AM

#

So genji's body is just has cryber parts on them

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:21 AM

#

yes

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 4:21 AM

#

im so slow lmao

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:21 AM

#

he still has some portion of a human body in there

#

one arm and both legs below the knees are prosthetic

#

as well as a cybernetic exoskeleton

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 4:22 AM

#

i think reaper's story is sort of like this. he's a soldier akin to jack and has all that life. has near-death experience, being saved by moira and turned into an immortal "monster" (from his perspective) and is unsure of how to deal with what he has become. he feels both abandoned by overwatch and rejected by society, (insert thing we dont know about yet), he joins talon

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 4:22 AM

#

And the sword on hanamaru*? its the one that hanzo "killed" genji with

#

hanamara

#

ugh idk

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:22 AM

#

@dense maple that's pretty much it

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 4:22 AM

#

so we have two genjis basically

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:22 AM

#

@worthy rose yes

#

that is Hanzo's sword

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 4:22 AM

#

he's basically the other side of the coin to genji

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 4:22 AM

#

someone sees them almost about to die

#

o well

#

science

#

boom fixed

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:23 AM

#

the one he swore to never use again after what he did to Genji

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 4:23 AM

#

genji was able to accept what he has became, while reaper is unable to accept it

#

their stories are kinda 2 sides to the same coin

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 4:23 AM

#

it bothers me how hanzo acts

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:23 AM

#

it took a long time for Genji to accept what he became though

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 4:23 AM

#

i understand how that was how he grew up

urban coyote Oct 12, 2018, 4:23 AM

#

He had a hard time accepting about it

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 4:23 AM

#

but i wish he could somehow say something to genji

#

other than my honor

#

Like wouldnt genji understand peer pressure what is hanzo afriad of making up with him?

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:24 AM

#

about 5 years maybe? if he was cyberized the year before Retribution (9 years ago), and he found Zenyatta some time after the fall (which was 5 years ago)

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 4:24 AM

#

why*

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:25 AM

#

Hanzo hasn't forgiven himself for what he did to his brother

#

he still feels guilty about it

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 4:25 AM

#

Honestly he needs a arc for that

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:25 AM

#

even after finding out Genji is alive and after Genji forgave him

#

Hanzo can't apologize or make amends with Genji until he gets over himself

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 4:26 AM

#

@worthy rose its basically a case of "older brother is praised by adults and privileged, younger brother is ignored and mistreated, younger brother feels inferior to older brother, while older brother is envious of younger brother for some random circumstance, maybe being able to live more freely due to not being under the eyes of the higher-ups. things boil, they fight, hanzo 'kills' genji, regrets it from then on and considers his brother honorable. genji comes back, hanzo is shaken and refuses to admit that genji is truly back, because it will then force him to look at his own responsibility and what he committed"

warm gulch Oct 12, 2018, 4:26 AM

#

i don't understand why every chat is filled with lore lmao

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 4:26 AM

#

long explanation but its a common trope to be honest

#

@warm gulch my fault

warm gulch Oct 12, 2018, 4:26 AM

#

lmao

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 4:26 AM

#

WOuldnt it be the other way aroung

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:26 AM

#

@warm gulch well this one is specifically for lore, so it would be weird if we weren't talking about lore

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 4:26 AM

#

isnt it genji who is privileged?

warm gulch Oct 12, 2018, 4:26 AM

#

well duh

#

it's just also in #overwatch lmao

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 4:26 AM

#

both are privileged

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:26 AM

#

oh

#

well good

#

the lore is worth discussing

warm gulch Oct 12, 2018, 4:27 AM

#

i love the lore tho

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 4:27 AM

#

thing is, hanzo was the often-praised brother with greater skills

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 4:27 AM

#

Yeah genji didnt put a fight agaisnt him

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 4:27 AM

#

genji was ignored by the "higherups" (for lack of a better word) and shunted aside

#

so he felt inferior to hanzo

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 4:27 AM

#

shouldnt have been at that arcade

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:28 AM

#

Genji didn't want to be a part of the family business

#

he wanted to party and be carefree

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 4:28 AM

#

ya exactly

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:28 AM

#

he wasn't the oldest son, it wasn't his job

#

but the clan elders wanted him to shape up and act like a part of the family

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 4:28 AM

#

To me i feel like if he didnt want to be apart of it because of what they were doing

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 4:29 AM

#

hanzo was envious of that because he was under the supervision of the "higher-ups" and had to be responsible, while genji's issue was always feeling inferior to hanzo

#

both issues came together and boiled into the big fight

#

and then "rip" genji

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 4:29 AM

#

rip

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 4:30 AM

#

its an incredibly common story and trope

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 4:30 AM

#

you would think highly train assains would be able to atleast finish him or hide

#

him somewhere

#

assassins*

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:30 AM

#

their story was literally based on a film called "Jiro Dreams of Sushi"

#

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiro_Dreams_of_Sushi

Jiro Dreams of Sushi

Jiro Dreams of Sushi is a 2011 Japanese-language American documentary film directed by David Gelb. The film follows Jiro Ono (小野二郎, Ono Jirō), an 85-year-old sushi master and owner of Sukiyabashi Jiro, a Michelin three-star restaurant. Sukiyabashi Jiro is a 10-seat...

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 4:30 AM

#

i mean, the guy was beaten to the point where he was missing like 70% of his body

#

id say they tried hard enough

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 4:30 AM

#

omg i seen that

#

it made me cry

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 4:30 AM

#

mercy just kinda fucked em over

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 4:30 AM

#

sad

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:31 AM

#

that's where they got the inspiration for the Shimada brothers

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 4:31 AM

#

Its like widowmaker

#

dont hesitate

#

or like ana

#

And was healing ana after the widow thing happened

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:31 AM

#

I think Hanzo struck Genji down, then fled out of shock or whatever

#

didn't stick around to check and see if he was actually dead

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 4:31 AM

#

btw, they claim moira, reaper, widowmaker and that one boss of symmetra's are talon's leaders

#

but isnt moira technically the true leader?

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 4:32 AM

#

No

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 4:32 AM

#

she brainwashed widowmaker, she made reaper immortal

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:32 AM

#

and then Overwatch (who was already watching the Shimadas) swooped in and saved him

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 4:32 AM

#

she just joined bc she wasnt accept

#

accepted* anywhere else right?

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:32 AM

#

@dense maple Doomfist seems to be the de facto leader

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 4:32 AM

#

it both makes sense and doesnt make sense for him to be leader

#

honestly i think moira could beat him

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:33 AM

#

Reaper, Doomfist, Moira, Sanjay and Maximilien are all Talon leaders

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 4:33 AM

#

she is also immortal just like reaper

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:33 AM

#

Widowmaker is not a leader

#

Moira is not immortal

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 4:33 AM

#

widow and sombra are just there

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 4:33 AM

#

she is though

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:33 AM

#

she can just fade

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 4:33 AM

#

she has the exact same thing as reaper, the same condition she gave him

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 4:33 AM

#

honestly

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 4:33 AM

#

she did the experiment on herself before even doing it to him in fact

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 4:33 AM

#

sombra being the sister of that little girl

#

doesnt make sense but i see people talking about it

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:34 AM

#

she experimented on herself and made her arm get all withered

#

we don't know when she gained her fade abilities

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 4:34 AM

#

fade is like reaper wisp thing

#

but its complete

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:34 AM

#

it's implied those came after she started working on Reyes

valid shell Oct 12, 2018, 4:34 AM

#

Sombra's an orphan.

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:34 AM

#

Reyes was the prototype

valid shell Oct 12, 2018, 4:34 AM

#

How tf could she have a sister and a mother.

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:34 AM

#

she perfected it for herself

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 4:34 AM

#

thats what people say

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 4:35 AM

#

by little girl do you mean efi? if so they have no relation

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 4:35 AM

#

it has a forum about it

valid shell Oct 12, 2018, 4:35 AM

#

People are wrong.

#

And also usually stupid.

#

Don't listen to people.

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 4:35 AM

#

from soldier traler

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:35 AM

#

people also used to think that Alejandra (the little girl) was Sombra

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 4:35 AM

#

trailer*

#

i didnt say i did

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 4:35 AM

#

ya i remember that theory

#

that alejandra was sombra lol

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 4:35 AM

#

im jsut saying it doesn't make sense

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:35 AM

#

people also think Moira is Emily's aunt

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 4:35 AM

#

tf

valid shell Oct 12, 2018, 4:35 AM

#

Let's not bring up abjectly incorrect theories here.

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:35 AM

#

or Balderich is Reinhardt's uncle

valid shell Oct 12, 2018, 4:35 AM

#

It doesn't make for good discussion.

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 4:35 AM

#

thats next level

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:35 AM

#

or some other ridiculous relationship

valid shell Oct 12, 2018, 4:36 AM

#

Let's stop while we're ahead.

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 4:36 AM

#

moria is irish

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 4:36 AM

#

mercy is clearly sombra's mother

valid shell Oct 12, 2018, 4:36 AM

#

Stop.

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 4:36 AM

#

tis a joke

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:36 AM

#

yes, let's not get carried away

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 4:36 AM

#

Soldier is anas dad but winston built a time thing for him so he could be young again

valid shell Oct 12, 2018, 4:36 AM

#

Stop.

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 4:37 AM

#

Are you a sombra main?

#

you act like one

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:37 AM

#

@worthy rose this is shitposting

#

stop

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 4:37 AM

#

i was joking but ok

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:37 AM

#

we're pretty strict about it around here

#

read the channel description

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 4:37 AM

#

it was a ironic statement

valid shell Oct 12, 2018, 4:38 AM

#

Joking doesn't excuse intentionally derailing the discussion for the sake of a cheap laugh.

#

That's what #general-discussion is for.

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 4:38 AM

#

Oh ok sorry

#

Whew

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:38 AM

#

back to the topic, we don't know the extent of Moira's abilities

#

they might make her unkillable like Reaper, or they might not

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 4:39 AM

#

it was a simple joke that did not derail the conversation and was related to the prior things being said. i get that you want it to keep to being about true lore but there is absolutely no need to be a dick about it

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:39 AM

#

we haven't seen her in combat yet

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 4:39 AM

#

i feel as though moira does have the same condition, albeit more perfected

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:40 AM

#

it seems that way

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 4:40 AM

#

Honestly i see that

valid shell Oct 12, 2018, 4:40 AM

#

We have seen Moira body 3 guards.

#

From behind, ofc.

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:40 AM

#

she certainly isn't in constant pain like Reaper is

#

and she looks relatively normal

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 4:40 AM

#

yeah

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 4:40 AM

#

But her eye

valid shell Oct 12, 2018, 4:40 AM

#

Heterochromia. Seems genetic from her sprays.

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 4:40 AM

#

isnt reaper only in constant pain due to the circumstances he was in while she was experimenting with it on him?

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 4:40 AM

#

And you see how mercy has a halo but morias has her back halo

#

i like it

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 4:40 AM

#

he was on the verge of painful death after all, it may have locked his body into that pain

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 4:41 AM

#

its a nice touch to the desigh on them being opposites

valid shell Oct 12, 2018, 4:41 AM

#

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/SfWoP_0sZ0o/maxresdefault.jpg

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:41 AM

#

his cells are constantly decaying and regenerating

valid shell Oct 12, 2018, 4:41 AM

#

He doesn't look in pain.

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:41 AM

#

that's gotta hurt

#

that's also early on, Binge

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 4:41 AM

#

Yeah

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 4:41 AM

#

its basically like having cancer with immortality at the same time

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 4:41 AM

#

also in the animated ones

#

he seems in pain

valid shell Oct 12, 2018, 4:41 AM

#

Yes, but it's not "due to the circumstances he was in while Moira was experimenting with it on him".

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 4:42 AM

#

What else would it be?

#

Is his heart hurting from hurting people?

valid shell Oct 12, 2018, 4:42 AM

#

The Swiss HQ explosion.

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 4:42 AM

#

... so why are you disagreeing

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:42 AM

#

📎 20181011_214221.jpg

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 4:42 AM

#

Oh yeah

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:43 AM

#

before the explosion, he had control of his abilities, and didn't seem to be in pain

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 4:43 AM

#

I feel like mercy couldnt help him in someone way or the way to help was inmoral

#

I mean before he had powers if he had something going on

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:43 AM

#

in Infiltration, he seems to be more "smokey" when he's hurt fighting the mechs

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 4:43 AM

#

i meant that the pain he had from what caused him to be on the verge of death, mixed in with moira's experiment on him, could have potentially been the cause of his circumstance of being in consistent pain with it, while if moira does have it, it could have no pain for her because she wasn't on the verge of death while receiving it

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:44 AM

#

like he has less control when he's injured

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 4:44 AM

#

so she has no wounds that are constantly decaying and regenerating

#

she only has regeneration

#

wounds prior to receiving the experiment, that is

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 4:44 AM

#

BUt her regeneration would be from taking from other

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 4:44 AM

#

this is all based on if she did it to herself as well of course

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 4:44 AM

#

others*

#

not like mercy's

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:45 AM

#

Reaper regenerates by taking from others too

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 4:45 AM

#

so it makes sense

#

At least there is a connection

#

between them

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:45 AM

#

yes

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 4:45 AM

#

And in game

#

Moria healing seems more than reapers damage heal

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:46 AM

#

Moira's abilities are without a doubt derived from Reaper's

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 4:46 AM

#

so it could be a more perfected "smoke heal"

#

or what ever we call "their" powers

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 4:46 AM

#

i hope at some point mercy has a complete 180 on her morality. she is a genius and is the one who created the bionanotechnology, while moira merely experiments and adds a bit to it. if mercy got rid of her pacifist morals and values and broke the moral boundary like moira did, she could make moira's work look like childs play

#

which would be so cool to see in action

dense estuary Oct 12, 2018, 4:46 AM

#

I suspect reaper's condition is somehow related to the shadowpriest beam Moira uses for DPS.

#

but that would honestly be totally out of character for Mercy

tranquil sun Oct 12, 2018, 4:47 AM

#

@dense maple that would be great

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:47 AM

#

a complete 180 would be a terrible plot twist

#

Mercy is a strong character because she sticks so strongly to her morals

dense estuary Oct 12, 2018, 4:47 AM

#

A full 180 also would be very troperiffic to the point of cringe

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:47 AM

#

it's also her flaw, because being too pacifistic makes her make poor decisions

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 4:48 AM

#

But how come were not talking about how fucked it is everytime mei cryo free she has to remeber what happend to her friends

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:48 AM

#

Moira is supposed to be a foil for Mercy - it would make no sense for her to suddenly be worse than Moira

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 4:48 AM

#

@peak escarp she feels at fault for the end of overwatch and the disbanding of the members. she also feels at fault for what moira has done, because she feels as though her technology and giving moira and others access to it is what led to the misuse of it. you could see talon manipulating her to join, by using people like widowmaker or gabe

#

to convince her

#

it'd be entirely within reason with the correct buildup

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 4:48 AM

#

Yeah its a like genji and hanzo

#

Everyone has a opposite

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:48 AM

#

Mercy does not feel like Moira is her fault

#

where are you getting this?

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 4:48 AM

#

like doom and sym

#

ana and widow

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:49 AM

#

Mercy doesn't even acknowledge that Moira is using her tech

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 4:49 AM

#

@peak escarp im trying to find it but the damn search causes game-related posts to appear instead of lore

#

also i wasnt referring to moira specifically

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 4:49 AM

#

Yeah she knows that the tech she is using is wrong

#

but she doesnt know its from her own etct

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 4:49 AM

#

i meant her technology being misused in general, which would include moira despite her being unaware of moira

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 4:49 AM

#

tec*

dense estuary Oct 12, 2018, 4:49 AM

#

She was one of the people that shut down Moira's operations in Overwatch and is part of why Moira went to Oasis and Talon.

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:50 AM

#

Mercy also doesn't feel at fault for Overwatch shutting down

#

she just thinks it was good that it was

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 4:50 AM

#

she feels both guilty of it but also somewhat considers it a good thing that it is gone

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:50 AM

#

@dense estuary source? I don't recall that ever being said

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 4:50 AM

#

what i mean is that she feels guilty for the members of it disbanding

#

not the organization itself

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 4:51 AM

#

Yeah almost like winston in his speech

#

well

#

hm

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 4:51 AM

#

i think a lot of ex-ow members feel at fault for it

valid shell Oct 12, 2018, 4:51 AM

#

@peak escarp "Overwatch was shut down for a reason. Maybe it's best it stay that way."

dense estuary Oct 12, 2018, 4:52 AM

#

http://overwatch.wikia.com/wiki/Moira

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:52 AM

#

the only thing that indicates Mercy feeling responsible for Overwatch being shut down is that line Binge quoted, and this:

#

"According to Overwatch's former agents, this outcome was inevitable. "After Morrison's promotion to strike commander, his relationship with Reyes changed," Dr. Angela Ziegler, medical director of Overwatch, stated during a UN committee hearing. "The tension became more pronounced as time went on. I tried to mend things. We all did. Sometimes when the closest bonds break, all you can do is pray you stay out of the cross fire.""

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 4:52 AM

#

Mercy: Describing your work as unethical would be a kindness.
Moira: But the true question is whether or not you can deny my discoveries... No, I didn't think so.

#

she doesnt know its her

#

thats how much moria worked on it

#

she change the science of mercy's work alot

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:53 AM

#

we don't know if Mercy was involved in shutting down Moira's work

#

only that Overwatch shut her down

#

Mercy would have been newly recruited into Overwatch at the time, and just starting as their head of medical research

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 4:54 AM

#

I feel like she was the head to look at though

#

gabriel wouldnt know what moria was doing

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:55 AM

#

He might have seen a report about her

#

or heard about her in the news

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 4:55 AM

#

"A last minute "plan B" came into place, evacuating the area and hope someone comes to pick them up. After they were rescued Jack Morrison, Ana Amari, and Gérard Lacroix gathered them for questioning. As a result, Moira's research as well as employment got discovered by Overwatch officials and they removed any affiliation with her."

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:55 AM

#

he went out of his way to recruit her behind Overwatch's back

#

that wiki is a bad source

#

if you have to use a wiki, use the gamepedia one

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 4:56 AM

#

considering mercy was one of the people at the head of overwatch's research and medical faculties, it would be partly her decision on whether to remove affiliation with her or not.

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:56 AM

#

or better yet, use primary sources

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 4:56 AM

#

I think reyes had a diease or somthing

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 4:56 AM

#

therefore, with deductive logic and reasoning, she is partly one of the people who did shut her down

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 4:56 AM

#

or something infecting him

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:57 AM

#

@dense maple remove affiliation with her?

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 4:57 AM

#

aka shutting down her operations, kicking her out of overwatch

#

they deemed her research immoral and removed any affiliation with her

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:57 AM

#

she wasn't in Overwatch before she was recruited into Blackwatch

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 4:57 AM

#

i mean kicking her out of overwatch's funding and whatnot

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:57 AM

#

and while she was in Blackwatch, her employment wasn't known to the rest of Overwatch

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 4:57 AM

#

im sure you understand what i mean

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:58 AM

#

until she was exposed during the Venice Incident

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 4:58 AM

#

thats what i literally just quoted

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 4:58 AM

#

She received a lifeline in an offer from an unlikely source: Overwatch's covert ops division, Blackwatch.[2] She was personally recruited by Blackwatch's commander, Gabriel Reyes, who wanted someone who could help advise him on matters pertaining to genetics

#

what im confused about

#

why go to moria and not mercy?

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:58 AM

#

maybe he did go to Mercy and she couldn't help him

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 4:58 AM

#

because mercy has strict morals

#

she would likely decline

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:59 AM

#

she's a surgeon with an expertise in nanobiotics

#

not genetics

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 4:59 AM

#

she's a medical prodigy

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 4:59 AM

#

ah

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:59 AM

#

prodigies don't know everything

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 4:59 AM

#

she would require knowledge in genetics to even attempt to research and advance in the study of nanobiotics

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 4:59 AM

#

no im curious about him needed to know about genetics

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:59 AM

#

they still have specialties

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 4:59 AM

#

know*

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:59 AM

#

he probably needed to know about genetics because of his SEP conditioning

#

in the Soldier Enhancement Program, they gave applicants genetic therapy to enhance their physical capabilities

#

think Captain America

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 5:00 AM

#

soldier 76 is just gritty captain america

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 5:00 AM

#

ah

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 5:00 AM

#

Reyes might have been experiencing complications from that, or wanted more conditioning

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 5:01 AM

#

i wonder what interaction mccree and moria had

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 5:01 AM

#

i dont think mccree necessarily liked her

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 5:01 AM

#

probably nothing

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 5:01 AM

#

they would disagree on many things

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 5:01 AM

#

📎 nesskain-hks-shot2f.png

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 5:01 AM

#

in fact, cree was with moira

#

^

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 5:01 AM

#

he knew her, and went with her on missions

#

but he didn't like her

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 5:02 AM

#

have you thought about the doom and mccree voice line

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 5:02 AM

#

and thought hiring her was a bad idea

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 5:02 AM

#

this time line

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 5:03 AM

#

i like mccree, hes surprisingly very intelligent

#

not academically intelligent, but you know what i mean

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 5:03 AM

#

he's smarter than people think

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 5:03 AM

#

great intuition and deduction

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 5:03 AM

#

he's got street smarts

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 5:03 AM

#

so blackwatch didnt become talon

#

im confused

#

between

#

blackwatch and talon

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 5:03 AM

#

they didnt become talon, but many members of it did

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 5:03 AM

#

so some left

#

and others join

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 5:04 AM

#

some Blackwatch members did become Talon agents

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 5:04 AM

#

because sombra isnt mentioned

limpid agate Oct 12, 2018, 5:04 AM

#

@dense estuary Use https://overwatch.gamepedia.com/Moira

Overwatch Wiki

Moira

Moira is a Support hero in Overwatch.

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 5:04 AM

#

notably Reyes and Moira, but others too

limpid agate Oct 12, 2018, 5:04 AM

#

Wikia isnt as up to date

#

As Gamepedia

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 5:04 AM

#

Overwatch wiki hasnt been updated

#

mainly talon

limpid agate Oct 12, 2018, 5:04 AM

#

Thats because I stopped updating it

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 5:05 AM

#

you updated it

limpid agate Oct 12, 2018, 5:05 AM

#

Back when I stopped I was the only one working on it

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 5:05 AM

#

ah

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 5:05 AM

#

📎 20181011_220439.jpg

#

Talon uses Blackwatch tactics

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 5:05 AM

#

im just saying because sombra wasnt mention on the talon page

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 5:05 AM

#

and some of the Talon grunts recognize McCree personally

#

📎 20181011_220456.jpg

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 5:05 AM

#

the eyes tho

#

nightmares

#

ok so

#

Many blackwatch members became talon ones and the grunts knew mcceww how though

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 5:06 AM

#

"Many considered her work to be dangerous because of its perceived ethical shortfalls, and O'Deorain was even accused of having the same unchecked desire for scientific advancement that some believed had caused the Omnic Crisis." what do you think about this? (its referring to moira)

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 5:06 AM

#

doomfist invited him

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 5:07 AM

#

i actually kind of agree with those people, suddenly giving everyone the capability to be immortal and change any part of their dna sounds risky to say the least

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 5:07 AM

#

the grunts knew McCree because it's implied they were in Blackwatch with him before the fall

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 5:07 AM

#

ok

#

so blackwatch wasnt just the four of them

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 5:07 AM

#

no

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 5:07 AM

#

thats what i wanted to know

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 5:07 AM

#

they had people on their team too

#

Gerard Lacroix worked with them (not sure if he was an actual member of Blackwatch or just a consultant)

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 5:09 AM

#

i should look into their voice lines

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 5:11 AM

#

did u know moira likes to dress-up and she likes art?

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 5:11 AM

#

you would think reaper would have a hard time teach mccree how to shoot

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 5:11 AM

#

Reyes also liked to dress up

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 5:11 AM

#

by dress-up though i dont know if its referring to just wearing pretty outfits, cosplaying, wearing cool stuff etc

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 5:11 AM

#

having a shot gun

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 5:11 AM

#

even made his own halloween costumes

#

McCree was already a good marksman when they brought him in

#

and according to an interaction between McCree and Pharah, he learned to shoot better from Ana, not Reyes

#

Pharah: McCree, where did you learn to shoot like that? Was it Jack, Gabriel?
McCree: Always was a good shot, but I got a few pointers from the best. That'd be your mother.

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 5:14 AM

#

Reaper: I taught you everything you know.
McCree: Not everythin'.

#

yeah

#

so ana taught mccree after reyes

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 5:16 AM

#

I figure McCree was good at shooting fast and flashy, but Ana taught him precision and long-distance shooting

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 5:17 AM

#

how important was widows husband

valid shell Oct 12, 2018, 5:17 AM

#

Pretty important.

#

Talon committed themselves to killing him.

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 5:17 AM

#

he was head of Overwatch's anti-Talon taskforce

#

so Talon really wanted to kill him

#

they tried multiple times and failed

#

he was also a long-time Overwatch agent, with a personal history with Reyes

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 5:19 AM

#

wow a line

#

from ana and widow

#

so overwatch doesnt know about widow being brainwashed

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 5:20 AM

#

they thought she was dead

valid shell Oct 12, 2018, 5:20 AM

#

It doesn't seem like Tracer knows.

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 5:20 AM

#

these interactions hmm

#

Ana: Gérard was a fool to love someone like you.
Widowmaker: You don't know anything about him.

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 5:21 AM

#

📎 20181011_222057.jpg

#

📎 20181011_222048.jpg

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 5:21 AM

#

thats how ana lost her eye

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 5:22 AM

#

ok

#

SO

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 5:22 AM

#

this was the first -and last - time anyone in Overwatch realized Widowmaker was Amelie

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 5:22 AM

#

ah

#

I wish dva could have gotton more lore herself

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 5:23 AM

#

yeah

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 5:23 AM

#

i used to consider dva possibly being interesting until her short

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 5:24 AM

#

but she is the youngest human hero - she doesn't have much backstory

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 5:24 AM

#

her short made her look like an average basic girl

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 5:24 AM

#

Shes more of a concept

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 5:24 AM

#

no longer had any interest in her lore

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 5:24 AM

#

all her lore will be present-day

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 5:25 AM

#

Zen doesnt have that much lore either

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 5:25 AM

#

he's also quite young

#

people don't realize that he's only 20

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 5:25 AM

#

Oh yeah

#

but the youngest is orisa right

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 5:25 AM

#

yep

#

the five youngest are:

Orisa (1 month)
Wrecking Ball (14 years)
DVa (19 years)
Zenyatta (20 years)
Brigitte (23 years)

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 5:27 AM

#

orisa the widdle baby

#

1 month old

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 5:27 AM

#

we literally know her entire life's story

#

we know the situation leading to her creation - we know her brief life as an OR15 before Doomfist smashed her, we know Efi witnessed her destruction and bought her parts to give her a new life and a new purpose

fading turret Oct 12, 2018, 5:29 AM

#

What’s Mercy story :3

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 5:29 AM

#

mercy story is pretty simple

#

she has so much potential to be interesting but blizz refuses

#

basically, she was a young prodigy, especially in medical science and most things in it

#

created bio-nanotechnology to treat wounds and other things

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 5:30 AM

#

her parents were killed in war, she was a child prodigy (and family friend of the Lindholms), was in college by 17, became a doctor in her 20s and became head surgeon of a Swiss hospital before making advancements in nanobiology that attracted Overwatch's attention

fading turret Oct 12, 2018, 5:31 AM

#

I didn’t know her parents died

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 5:31 AM

#

she was then recruited to be Overwatch's head of medical research and she developed the Valkyrie swift response suit so she could provide medical aid in combat

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 5:31 AM

#

probably the reason shes such a strict pacifist

fading turret Oct 12, 2018, 5:31 AM

#

Thanks

#

K bye uwu

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 5:31 AM

#

most notably, she served as field medic during the King's Row Uprising, and after the fall of Overwatch she found work as a field doctor in the middle east

#

. . . o

#

I wasn't done 😦

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 5:32 AM

#

rip

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 5:33 AM

#

people expect Mercy's story to be convoluted, but it's actually pretty simple

#

and a little boring

#

if you account for her years in medical school, we know her whereabouts from age 14 to present day

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 5:35 AM

#

yeah, sadly

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 5:35 AM

#

we know more of her life than most other heroes

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 5:36 AM

#

or do we...... GWfroggyMonkaThink

long ermine Oct 12, 2018, 5:50 AM

#

average age of a hamster is 2-3 years#

#

sadgosling

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 5:56 AM

#

i wonder where efi got orisa voive from

long ermine Oct 12, 2018, 5:57 AM

#

future miku

#

effEZ1

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 5:58 AM

#

who was the person to "see" sombra

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 5:58 AM

#

@long ermine Hammond is a genetically modified hamster

#

who knows what his life expectancy is

#

same with Winston - gorillas only live to be about 30

hoary quail Oct 12, 2018, 7:17 AM

#

Why is widowmaker blue

long ermine Oct 12, 2018, 7:34 AM

#

lower heartbeat

native kayak Oct 12, 2018, 7:36 AM

#

@dense maple an average basic girl?? Im sorry but what average basic girl do you know that levels giant mechs on the daily, is an international superstar and hero??

#

Lol I’m not trying to FITE but I will DIE ON THIS HILL!!!!

#

Okay not on the daily.... the monthly.... annually.... whatevsss

#

Anyways I think the short made her look more down to earth than she’s been introduced as

#

And a real person behind the gamer girl celebrity hero persona

#

Ok I’m done

#

Lol

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 7:42 AM

#

@native kayak i mean sure her actions are special

#

but her personality is basic as hell

#

i feel like she could be replaced with any basic girl irl and itd be barely different

native kayak Oct 12, 2018, 7:44 AM

#

I think that’s the point, ordinary people can do extraordinary things when the occasion rises, and she happened to find celebrity status yet maintain her down to earth, nice personality

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 7:44 AM

#

and out of all the dilemmas the short couldve shown her with given her situation, they chose "she doesnt like accepting help"

#

she doesnt even have any backstory or prior event to make her not want to accept help, its just some random ass thing

#

its like they picked it out of a raffle

native kayak Oct 12, 2018, 7:45 AM

#

It makes sense, she’s the star and put on a pedestal

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 7:45 AM

#

so then, shes narcissistic?

native kayak Oct 12, 2018, 7:45 AM

#

I do wish they’d explored her life before the glitz and glamour

#

She probably is a bit but downplayed

#

I mean, who could blame her honestly

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 7:45 AM

#

i liked dva's premise but i absolutely cannot find it in me to like her personality or story in that short

native kayak Oct 12, 2018, 7:46 AM

#

It sounds like you want her to have a character flaw tho?? Aren’t you happy lol

#

If she’s narcisstic

#

That’s not totally “basic”

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 7:46 AM

#

id like her to have a character flaw that isnt entirely baseless

#

and narcissism somewhat is basic

native kayak Oct 12, 2018, 7:46 AM

#

It’s not baseless??

#

Did you mean badic

#

Basic

#

It’s also implied she might have some PTsd

#

Not a flaw of course

#

Lol

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 7:47 AM

#

the narcissism flaw is only a theorized thing, and it is doubtful that overwatch would even make her that, considering the trope they gave her in the short they want to make her seem like "normal girl with important job has to take large risks to protect her country, does not like accepting help"

native kayak Oct 12, 2018, 7:47 AM

#

But I mean shows it’s not all fun and games for her

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 7:47 AM

#

note how that "does not like accepting help" feels so random and slapped into that sentenc

#

thats what i mean

native kayak Oct 12, 2018, 7:48 AM

#

If you see it that way

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 7:48 AM

#

it has no relevancy to how theyre trying to portray her in the short and no relevancy to any actual plot point

native kayak Oct 12, 2018, 7:48 AM

#

I see it as a by product of her being the star all the time

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 7:48 AM

#

it just felt like a sellout

#

a cheap flaw for them to pick

#

that has no basis on any prior event with her or any reasoning or explanation behind it

native kayak Oct 12, 2018, 7:48 AM

#

what would you have it be then?

#

I’m interested

#

In your better idea

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 7:48 AM

#

why doesnt she like accepting help? because she just doesnt. thats their explanation

#

i could think of a better issue easily

native kayak Oct 12, 2018, 7:49 AM

#

Okay then be my guest

#

And she says “everyone is counting on her” she truly believes that she IS the best one for the job

#

And anyone else would do a lesser job

#

So it’s her burden to go at it alone

#

It’s false ofc

#

But that’s what she believes at first until Taehyun helps her

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 7:50 AM

#

for example, in her situation, having to deal with upkeeping a "perfect" rolemodel appearance to the masses to keep them feeling safe, which is what she actually does in lore but is ignored in the short, and how it affects her actual everyday life and feelings, along with adding a lot of stress

native kayak Oct 12, 2018, 7:51 AM

#

Sounds like you want to see a star on the verge of cracking under pressure, like irl celebrities do. I do like that idea, it’s dark

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 7:51 AM

#

it wouldve still given her a more down to earth feeling for us, seeing that she is human just like us, but with actual relevancy to the plot and a more convoluted dilemma.

native kayak Oct 12, 2018, 7:51 AM

#

But dva isn’t a “dark” character, I mean, it wouldn’t be bad i don’t think

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 7:51 AM

#

not some slapped on half-assed idea like 'uhh she doesnt like accepting help because no reason ok bye'

#

she isnt a dark character necessarily, but her situation is

native kayak Oct 12, 2018, 7:52 AM

#

All they mostly do is contrast her glitz and glamour and emerging without a scratch with her eating chips and working extra hours and breaking all her limbs lol

#

I mean like, how the news reports her versus reality

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 7:53 AM

#

she has to constantly upkeep a perfect and upbeat rolemodel display to the masses to prevent panic, while also putting in actual work to fight off omnics that are endless in amount and every time they fight, they only send a couple out in order to learn more and more and become stronger and stronger to counter her and the MEKAs.

#

the reason this is a dark story is because it means that inevitably, at some point, korea and dva herself will just lose

#

because at some point, the bots will finally have improved enough to actually be able to defeat her

native kayak Oct 12, 2018, 7:53 AM

#

And she’ll be blamed

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 7:53 AM

#

even though it may take a long time, it is an inevitable event

native kayak Oct 12, 2018, 7:54 AM

#

What goes up must come down

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 7:54 AM

#

exactly

#

so she is a very dark character, and the thing is, she is aware of that as well

#

she knows it will inevitably happen

native kayak Oct 12, 2018, 7:54 AM

#

I feel bad for her, she’s only 19 with all that on her shoulders

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 7:54 AM

#

they could have expanded on that in the short

#

but no they decided "she no like help"

native kayak Oct 12, 2018, 7:54 AM

#

I’m 19 and I’d just die if I had to do any of that lmao

#

Well

#

I feel like

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 7:54 AM

#

i thought she was interesting, but the short kinda ruined it

native kayak Oct 12, 2018, 7:55 AM

#

Maybe one day they will

#

When the story actually progresses

#

We’ll see D.va have to face the inevitable

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 7:55 AM

#

hopefully

#

not to mean that i want her to die and korea to be destroyed

#

but uhhhh.... good plot

regal coyote Oct 12, 2018, 1:12 PM

#

thing is, that is also likely how the new ow would be involved it seems

#

most likely it is a "shit hit the fence, ow shows up and help take the angry toasterzilla down, d.va befriended"

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 2:13 PM

#

@dense maple did u not notice the ptsd dva

#

and the fact that she cares about her country and knows her role and place so much she would die for it

#

the plot sure was pretty thin but the character development wasn’t

pearl blade Oct 12, 2018, 2:27 PM

#

Dva doesn't have ptsd. It was a flashback

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 2:32 PM

#

war

#

war never changes

pearl blade Oct 12, 2018, 2:34 PM

#

What?

iron plume Oct 12, 2018, 2:34 PM

#

good meme

#

and no dva doesn't have ptsd

pearl blade Oct 12, 2018, 2:35 PM

#

Thank you

iron plume Oct 12, 2018, 2:35 PM

#

but also no dva wasn't just "i don't want help"

frank moat Oct 12, 2018, 2:39 PM

#

DVA is a workaholic and can’t cope with failing that’s the problem

#

And she can’t admit that she needs help because she think she shouldn’t need it

feral lintel Oct 12, 2018, 2:44 PM

#

and she also has an image to keep up for the public

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 3:20 PM

#

shes not a "workaholic", shes forced in that situation

#

she doesnt really have much choice except to work

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 3:21 PM

#

Brigita is Torbs sister in law

#

🤫

#

And soldier slept with sombras mother that is why he saved her

#

Sombra is Soldier

#

Soldier seventy sombra.....I’m telling u

#

Sombra then was givin to briggita to because of the gang violence they had in Mexico

#

That is why when u hack beiggita sombra says “mom”

iron plume Oct 12, 2018, 3:27 PM

#

stop shitposting plskthx

limpid agate Oct 12, 2018, 3:38 PM

#

Moving swiftly onwards

regal coyote Oct 12, 2018, 4:36 PM

#

actually part of it i would say Hana/dva is a bit of a workaholic

#

i mean as important as she is it is for sure there would be more support on things like engineering and repair and support personel if she would request it

#

pilots might be hard to find but surely they can spare a few mechanics

#

and yet she does choose to work on it on her own, granted she does have a trusty friend mechanic

#

so it is a bit of both

#

sure she is praised to be the star savior, but part of her does believe in it

#

true that the shooting star event is designed in a situation where she has to do it on her own with no other combatant available though

#

I mean, you cant get mechanic friendzone boy going out like torby with a wrench cant you?

#

and even then it wont help on an awrial battle upon a seaside

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 4:39 PM

#

she tries to do everything because she thinks she's the only one who can do it - never mind the fact that she has a mechanic and a team to support her

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 6:17 PM

#

i mean... at the same time, shes not wrong

#

she kinda is the only one on her team with that capability and skill

#

shes the main reason the omnics are still staying back and attempting to learn from her and improve

#

without her, its likely that korea would be destroyed by now

feral lintel Oct 12, 2018, 6:18 PM

#

we know almost nothing about what her team is capable of

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 6:18 PM

#

the only one i think is around her skill level is d.mon

#

who is basically dps d.va

feral lintel Oct 12, 2018, 6:18 PM

#

again, not confirmed

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 6:18 PM

#

if they were all around the same skill level and just as good as her, itd be a major plot hole and make the plot seem retarded

#

because then why in the hell would korea solely be sending her out against a threat that could destroy their country

#

it would make no logical sense whatsoever and would endanger their entire country for no reason

frosty shell Oct 12, 2018, 6:19 PM

#

They aren't sending out D. Va alone

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 6:20 PM

#

i mean in the short

#

those omnics had the capability to do massive destruction on the entire country

frosty shell Oct 12, 2018, 6:20 PM

#

She chose to go out alone

#

Because all the other mechs were out of commission

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 6:20 PM

#

i dont think the military would care whether she wants teammates or not, theyd be sending teammates without her opinion

feral lintel Oct 12, 2018, 6:20 PM

#

d.va herself decided to carry on working instead of taking a break like the rest of her team did

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 6:21 PM

#

surely with all the MEKAs they have, she cant be the only one to not have a decommissioned MEKA

frosty shell Oct 12, 2018, 6:22 PM

#

But the military was caught off guard

#

So she rushed in to do it by herself

#

She doesn't normally work alone

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 6:23 PM

#

back to what i meant before though, my issue was that the flaw they picked for her has such little relevancy to plot

frosty shell Oct 12, 2018, 6:23 PM

#

which flaw?

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 6:23 PM

#

it is random and out of nowhere, has little substance to it, no plot connections to it, no relevancy, and could be replaced by any other flaw

#

not accepting help

frosty shell Oct 12, 2018, 6:24 PM

#

But it makes sense - she is somewhat boastful

#

Her in game voicelines definitely indicate that

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 6:24 PM

#

she isnt the leader of the military though, she really isnt in the place to decide that stuff

frosty shell Oct 12, 2018, 6:24 PM

#

Decide what?

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 6:25 PM

#

whether people can help her or not in a national threat scenario

frosty shell Oct 12, 2018, 6:25 PM

#

She was in the place to decide, she had to respond to the attack immediately

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 6:25 PM

#

all she did was further endanger the country by not using resources that would lessen the risk

#

she doesnt even have any event or prior backstory to explain why she wouldnt want to accept help, besides "she's stuck up"

frosty shell Oct 12, 2018, 6:26 PM

#

Daehyun was the only person she could really ask for help

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 6:26 PM

#

if she had prior backstory or some event, like for example people helping her in the past and dying because of it or some other thing akin to that, it wouldve made far more sense and would be relevant to the plot

#

its just, how theyre trying to portray her is clashing

frosty shell Oct 12, 2018, 6:27 PM

#

not really

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 6:28 PM

#

theyre trying to make her seem more human just like us, bringing her down to earth and showing she has flaws and can be unsure, but at the same time theyre trying to show her as a perfect and boastful person

#

they clash in my opinion

frosty shell Oct 12, 2018, 6:28 PM

#

isn't being boastful a flaw

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 6:28 PM

#

only if its undeserved

frosty shell Oct 12, 2018, 6:29 PM

#

Not really

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 6:29 PM

#

she wasnt shown to have any reason not to be boastful. she still solo'ed the giant omnic without any help

frosty shell Oct 12, 2018, 6:29 PM

#

Not really

#

The whole Gwishin took help from her teammates

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 6:29 PM

#

i dont even see why she suddenly decided to accept help, she didnt even accept help in the short beyond the guy just saying some diagnostics and all of a sudden she's magically changed

frosty shell Oct 12, 2018, 6:30 PM

#

You could be the undisputed best in the world at something and it would still be kind of wrong to boast all the time about it

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 6:30 PM

#

yeah, but thats only a slight personality flaw that has little impact on much beyond her not wanting to accept help

#

and guess what? they fixed her only flaw :)

#

way to go, trying to show she's human and then suddenly removing the only small flaw she has

frosty shell Oct 12, 2018, 6:31 PM

#

They didn't fix it, really

#

She's still kind of cocky

#

And it's just character development

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 6:32 PM

#

they did though, she's accepting help now and is a little less cocky (being cocky is normal in the military excluding being it to superiors, it is a morale thing and is purposeful), and not even cocky enough for it to cause any actual issue now

#

they just removed the only issue it caused

frosty shell Oct 12, 2018, 6:32 PM

#

She had to accept once that she didn't need to bring it all on herself

#

She probably isn't a perfect person

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 6:32 PM

#

it just feels like such a cheap flaw to give her

frosty shell Oct 12, 2018, 6:33 PM

#

And they probably didn't show the flaws that didn't get fixed

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 6:33 PM

#

its practically the same level of complexity as mercy's flaw

#

which is just her pacifism

#

like the basic level

frosty shell Oct 12, 2018, 6:33 PM

#

But not all characters need to have their flaws all spelled out

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 6:33 PM

#

i dont want them to, i just want them to have less cheap-choice flaws

frosty shell Oct 12, 2018, 6:33 PM

#

And D. Va's one makes sense

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 6:33 PM

#

they picked an incredibly generic flaw

frosty shell Oct 12, 2018, 6:34 PM

#

What is an example of a "less-cheap" flaw?

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 6:34 PM

#

when d.va has SO MUCH that could create flaws in her

frosty shell Oct 12, 2018, 6:34 PM

#

such as?

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 6:34 PM

#

oh i answered this to another guy earlier

#

lemme find it

#

hToday at 12:50 AM
for example, in her situation, having to deal with upkeeping a "perfect" rolemodel appearance to the masses to keep them feeling safe, which is what she actually does in lore but is ignored in the short, and how it affects her actual everyday life and feelings, along with adding a lot of stress

#

hToday at 12:53 AM
she has to constantly upkeep a perfect and upbeat rolemodel display to the masses to prevent panic, while also putting in actual work to fight off omnics that are endless in amount and every time they fight, they only send a couple out in order to learn more and more and become stronger and stronger to counter her and the MEKAs.
the reason this is a dark story is because it means that inevitably, at some point, korea and dva herself will just lose
because at some point, the bots will finally have improved enough to actually be able to defeat her

frosty shell Oct 12, 2018, 6:35 PM

#

The stress she faces is one of the main reasons she brings it all on herself

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 6:35 PM

#

the thing is, she is also well aware of that fact

#

that south korea is inevitably doomed unless a miracle (i.e. some hero coming in to help) happens

frosty shell Oct 12, 2018, 6:36 PM

#

And it's not given that she's going to lose

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 6:36 PM

#

it is though, thats the entire thing of the short

#

every single time, they send a small amount of omnics to combat d.va and attempt to counter and learn from its fights, and each time they learn, they remake themselves to improve on something they learned, so little by little they get tougher

#

and in the short, it was shown that they were actually starting to beat her

#

until she self-destructed

frosty shell Oct 12, 2018, 6:37 PM

#

So far, what's happened is that Gwishin comes to South Korea and destroys things, humans fight back, Gwishin eventually gives up, Gwishin improves, repeat

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 6:37 PM

#

which means they are actually rather close to that time

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 6:38 PM

#

that time they only had DVa to deal with

#

usually they have to fight the whole squad

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 6:39 PM

#

@peak escarp thats one of the biggest flaws south korea is making actually

#

by having their strongest MEKA pilot combat the threat each time

#

it makes the omnics learn even faster

frosty shell Oct 12, 2018, 6:39 PM

#

What else are you supposed to do? Give up and let them win?

#

instead of fighting back

#

I think you mean fight back less innovatively

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 6:40 PM

#

they're going to learn and adapt either way

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 6:40 PM

#

once they can beat her alone with just those few omnics, they can start to send out their actual amount of omnics (a massive amount) ensured that they can defeat all of them, considering d.va is #1 in skill, if the small amount can finally beat her, then the mass amount can beat her and the rest of the lesser-skilled MEKA polits

#

they are purposefully sending out small amounts of omnics

#

because they dont need to send their whole army to learn from the fight

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 6:40 PM

#

fighting 1 on 1 (or 1 on 6) is different than fighting a team

frosty shell Oct 12, 2018, 6:40 PM

#

Nothing really says that

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 6:40 PM

#

they just need a couple to learn and send the data back to the other omnics

#

and then the rest of the omnics have now improved

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 6:41 PM

#

but all the omnics DVa fought were destroyed

frosty shell Oct 12, 2018, 6:41 PM

#

Probably the reason why the Gwishin only sent a little contigency is because it was still recovering from the fight with MEKA earlier

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 6:41 PM

#

so they can't take the info back to the group

frosty shell Oct 12, 2018, 6:41 PM

#

@peak escarp They could still send back data

#

Wirelessly

#

Destroying them won't stop that

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 6:41 PM

#

we're still making a lot of assumptions about the gwishin

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 6:42 PM

#

@peak escarp if we have wifi that can send data from two opposite ends of the world in milliseconds, im sure omnics, which are computers themselves, could do it just as easily

#

especially in the future with even better technology like that, considering theyre made out of that better technology

frosty shell Oct 12, 2018, 6:42 PM

#

Yeah, apart from the general fact that the Gwishin improves gradually (which is to be expected), we don't know what its strategy is

#

And the MEKAs are improving too

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 6:43 PM

#

the gwishin DVa fought weren't there to scout her abilities - they were there to attack the city while the MEKA squad was recovering

frosty shell Oct 12, 2018, 6:43 PM

#

h's theory could be possible, though

#

It could've had an additional purpose of learning

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 6:44 PM

#

the very first omnic improves in the same exact way. "The first known Gwishin was a colossal omnic that emerged from the East China Sea. Every few years the omnic would return, assaulting South Korea and its neighbors. The omnic learned from these encounters, often reconfiguring itself in a different form and appearing with new weapons and capabilities. Each incident ended in a stalemate, with the monstrosity defeated but not destroyed."

#

from the very start it had already been stalemating their entire team

frosty shell Oct 12, 2018, 6:44 PM

#

We knew that

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 6:44 PM

#

think of what happens if it improves

frosty shell Oct 12, 2018, 6:44 PM

#

But a stalemate is better than total defeat

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 6:44 PM

#

which it continuously does

frosty shell Oct 12, 2018, 6:44 PM

#

Just ask South & North Korea

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 6:44 PM

#

my point wasnt to say that dva and south korea should just give up

#

it was to explain why d.va's story is sort of a tragedy

frosty shell Oct 12, 2018, 6:45 PM

#

Not really, things could change

dense estuary Oct 12, 2018, 6:45 PM

#

I think a big part of the issue is so much of the world is still recovering there is no resources to hunt OmnicZilla down

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 6:45 PM

#

I think DVa learning to ask for help is setting up her asking for help from Overwatch later on

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 6:45 PM

#

their only real hope of overcoming it is if other heroes come in to help out (knowing how blizz does its plot, its obvious that such a thing would happen to prevent it)

#

@peak escarp exactly

#

thats relevant to what i said just now lol

frosty shell Oct 12, 2018, 6:46 PM

#

They face long odds of ending the Gwishin for good, but they're willing to do their best

dense estuary Oct 12, 2018, 6:46 PM

#

I am pretty sure if the resources existed they could send submarines to fine it and fire some of those nuclear torpedoes the Russians developed in the cold war at it.

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 6:46 PM

#

plot is probably leading to her asking ow for help against the omnics, which will happen when it comes to the point that her and her team can no longer stalemate it

frosty shell Oct 12, 2018, 6:46 PM

#

However, even if the Gwishin defeats D. Va once it can still lose to D. Va later

#

D. Va's crew seems to be doing well so far - they haven't let any cities be destroyed

#

But you're right - that could change

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 6:48 PM

#

im sure that if dva and co. didnt have to worry about protecting the city and keeping that in mind, they could fare much better against the omnics

#

i think having to stay by the city and constantly be wary of any planned attacks on it hinders their ability to go allout

cedar moon Oct 12, 2018, 6:48 PM

#

DMon lore?

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 6:49 PM

#

i want dmon in game as a dps, since shes practically the dps version of dva

frosty shell Oct 12, 2018, 6:49 PM

#

It seems that all of the Gwishin's previous iterations have ended in some carnage taking place

#

How do we know that?

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 6:49 PM

#

200 hp meka with dps-focused abilities, when it gets destroyed a 100-health baby dmon pops out

frosty shell Oct 12, 2018, 6:49 PM

#

Just asking

cedar moon Oct 12, 2018, 6:49 PM

#

200 hp MEKA zaryalol

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 6:49 PM

#

why do you think DMon is a DPS version of DVa?

cedar moon Oct 12, 2018, 6:50 PM

#

Her MEKA is so big tho wdymmmm

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 6:50 PM

#

aaah i cant find direct quote so take my word for it (if you really need source ill search) but theres someone who said that if dva can be considered the rabbit/bunny, then d.mon is considered the bear

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 6:50 PM

#

her mech is bigger and beefier

cedar moon Oct 12, 2018, 6:50 PM

#

^

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 6:50 PM

#

and tankier

#

📎 monster.png

#

even has a big shield

cedar moon Oct 12, 2018, 6:50 PM

#

We’d have every single tank type with a mech

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 6:50 PM

#

i mean... if you want i guess we could just not have her ingame because theres already a meka tank :(

cedar moon Oct 12, 2018, 6:50 PM

#

A dive, off tank, and main tank i

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 6:50 PM

#

she could be a type of supp

cedar moon Oct 12, 2018, 6:50 PM

#

Support

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 6:51 PM

#

one of the survivable ones, since blizz is trying to start up the survivable supps like brig

cedar moon Oct 12, 2018, 6:51 PM

#

Omg pls

#

That meta

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 6:51 PM

#

yeah, ever seen braum in league?

#

there are supports that arent heal-focused

cedar moon Oct 12, 2018, 6:51 PM

#

Brig [insert] and Moira with tanks would kill us :c

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 6:52 PM

#

i just want dmon ingame, are u so against her being a dps just because she has a bigger mech >:(

cedar moon Oct 12, 2018, 6:52 PM

#

Yes :c

#

No 200 hp hero with a big ass mech

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 6:53 PM

#

hmmmmmmm

#

if we cant do that, then shouldnt doom have a lot more hp

#

since we're being lore-based gremlindva

cedar moon Oct 12, 2018, 6:54 PM

#

Yeah sure, let’s have a big ass hitbox with a low hp hero, we’re so gud at balancing omegalul zaryalol

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 6:54 PM

#

hell ya

cedar moon Oct 12, 2018, 6:55 PM

#

Same

#

Also nerf mercy with D.va hit box

dense maple Oct 12, 2018, 6:55 PM

#

😎

peak escarp Oct 12, 2018, 7:01 PM

#

hit boxes and HP are not relevant to the lore

cedar moon Oct 12, 2018, 7:02 PM

#

Any other MEKA lore

limpid agate Oct 12, 2018, 7:23 PM

#

@cedar moon DVas bio and Shooting Star

calm shuttle Oct 12, 2018, 7:24 PM

#

E ?

lavish mural Oct 12, 2018, 7:29 PM

#

Would love to see more explanation on Lucio/Symmetra and Mercy/Moira

#

Vishkar cinematic with Rio, Brazil map plz

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 7:55 PM

#

Yeah

native kayak Oct 12, 2018, 7:55 PM

#

I agree, the Symmetra and Lucio and Vishkar dynamic is so interesting to me

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 7:55 PM

#

Vishkar is something bad

native kayak Oct 12, 2018, 7:55 PM

#

And Vishkar’s creepiness

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 7:55 PM

#

But sym doesnt know about its true intentions

native kayak Oct 12, 2018, 7:56 PM

#

Yeah haha

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 7:56 PM

#

She keeps denying it

native kayak Oct 12, 2018, 7:56 PM

#

Did you hear the new voiceline between Sombra and Sym?

worthy rose Oct 12, 2018, 7:56 PM

#

Yeah

#

I was about to bring that up lmao

native kayak Oct 12, 2018, 7:56 PM

#

I hope Sombra’s the one that tells her eventually or at least leads her to realizing it